4 Steps to Unlock Your Creativity & Feel More Inspired Every Day

Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 Let me ask you something. When was the last time you felt creative? Not productive, not busy, creative.

Speaker 1 I mean, in the moment, alive, lost in the flow of something. Well, if you haven't felt like that in a while, you're not alone.
You and I live in a world that just moves way too fast.

Speaker 1 We're always scrolling and comparing and reacting. They're always something more important than making space for your own ideas, for your own feelings.
No wonder you feel so disconnected.

Speaker 1 But you want to know something?

Speaker 1 That creative part of you, it's not gone. It's been in there since you were born.
It's connected to your intuition. See, it's just buried underneath the noise.

Speaker 1 Today, we're going to help you access it. See, creativity is not about what you're making.
It's how you move through the world. It's not just your art.
It's in your instincts, your intuition.

Speaker 1 You were born as a creative person. Let me say this out loud.
Creativity is not just for artists or musicians. I'm serious.
You are so much more creative than you think.

Speaker 1 If you're building a business or raising a family or writing a caption on social media, you're trying to solve a problem right now. You're already creating.

Speaker 1 You just haven't been told that you're a creative person.

Speaker 1 Well, after this episode, You're going to stop waiting for permission to be creative and you're going to finally understand creativity is part of who you are.

Speaker 1 You're going to be learning four powerful principles that will help you access your natural born creativity. Because creativity is not about being perfect.
It's not about performing.

Speaker 1 It's not about producing anything. Creativity is a way to tap into something deeper and more meaningful in your daily life.
And today, we are going to unleash it.

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. It is such an honor to be together and spend this time with you.

Speaker 1 And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family.

Speaker 1 I'm so excited that you're here because today we're going to talk about how you can tap into your natural-born creativity to live a more purpose-driven life.

Speaker 1 You're going to learn four principles that will help you be more creative in your life, no matter what you do for work, whether you're a nurse, a teacher, a parent, a barista, a founder, a student, or just someone who's tired of feeling stuck.

Speaker 1 The principles you're going to learn today are going to help you stop holding yourself back and start living your life in a way that matters.

Speaker 1 And to help me do that, I'm joined by one of the most grounded and fun and inspiring and creatively awake people I know, Phil Cook. Phil is a musician and a songwriter.

Speaker 1 He's played with Grammy Award-winning artists like Boni Ver. He's produced award-winning gospel records, and he's released his own deeply personal albums.

Speaker 1 And you're going to hear some of his music throughout this episode. He's also toured with artists for more than 20 years.
And just this past year, he completed his first ever solo U.S. tour.

Speaker 1 But that's not why I asked Phil here. See, what makes Phil so special is how he sees the world.
And Phil is like you and me.

Speaker 1 He's lived through a lot of stuff, divorce, burnout, reinvention, self-doubt.

Speaker 1 He's a single dad of two kids, and yet he still wakes up every day and intentionally taps into creativity to help him stay connected to his intuition, to help him make decisions, and to help him live a more purpose-driven life.

Speaker 1 And today, he's going to help you do the same thing. Phil is a walking reminder that creativity is human.
Art and authenticity, they're not separate. And joy, it's not something you chase.

Speaker 1 It's something you remember.

Speaker 1 So if you're tired, uninspired, or if you've been wondering, is this really all there is?

Speaker 1 If some part of you knows there's more to life, there's more to you, there's more than what you're currently experiencing. Well, this conversation today is for you.
It's for your heart.

Speaker 1 It's for your spirit. It's for your creativity.
Because here's what I know. By the time you're done listening, there's going to be something.

Speaker 1 There's going to be something that you experience, experience, something that stirs inside you, that awakens, that brings you back to life. That's how powerful your creative spirit is.

Speaker 1 And today, Phil and I are going to help you tap back into it. Phil Cook,

Speaker 1 I am so excited to welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast. Thanks, Mel.
I already feel more creative and alive.

Speaker 2 Hey, I feel very seen. Thank you.
You do? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, Phil, I really wanted to talk to you about creativity because you are living it.
You have a very creative life.

Speaker 1 Something about you and the way that you move through life awakens something in me.

Speaker 2 And I

Speaker 1 wanted to introduce you to the person who is here with us right now. They may be watching on YouTube.
You might be taking a walk or... you're driving a car and Phil and I are now sitting with you.

Speaker 1 And Phil, I'd love to have you tell the person who's with us right now, what could they experience in their life that might be different about how life feels?

Speaker 1 If they really take to heart everything that you're about to share with us today about creativity, about

Speaker 1 the lessons that you've learned by living a creative life, what could be different?

Speaker 2 Life is hard and painful and beautiful. We are all living in these human bodies.
born into this world, who knows how much time we have.

Speaker 2 So much much is happening around us every single day. So much distraction, so much noise.
Life gets

Speaker 2 fat, it's like fast forwarding, right?

Speaker 2 And sometimes I feel like it's like our senses are this one big inhale of all this information year after year.

Speaker 2 And creativity allows us to exhale what works hand in hand with

Speaker 2 intuition. Intuition is tied to our soul, our soul and our intuition and our creativity all working together at the same time.
The thing I want to talk about today really is your intuition

Speaker 2 is a voice that's inside of you, that you can come to know this voice inside of you.

Speaker 2 can come to help you make decisions in your life, like tuning a guitar string to exactly the right pitch of you, you know?

Speaker 2 And your intuition and your creativity feed each other. Your intuition will

Speaker 2 inform your creativity and your creativity hones your intuition. So you start to listen to your inner voice more.
Most people, I think, want to know what that inner voice is when they feel lost.

Speaker 2 Guide me, help guide me. So when we tap into our intuition, what we're really tapping into is a chance to know ourselves in a deeper way.

Speaker 1 I love what you said about the exhale.

Speaker 2 Exhale.

Speaker 1 That creativity is a way to exhale. And you are somebody who's made a living being creative as a musician, as a producer, as a writer, as all the things that you do.

Speaker 1 But there's a very big difference between having a career that's creative and introducing creativity into your life. And you do both.
It's not just a job.

Speaker 1 You've infused this creative spirit into the way that you live your day-to-day life. And I love what you said, that decision making is just like tuning a guitar string

Speaker 1 because you're trying to hone in on what actually feels or sounds true for you.

Speaker 1 What do you say to the person who's listening who does not think they are creative at all? Like, this is not a conversation for me. I don't know how to write a song.
I'm not good at drawing.

Speaker 1 I'm not creative.

Speaker 1 Like, what do you say to that person?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Well, let's go through the narratives.

Speaker 2 You watch somebody play a Beethoven piece and you're just like, well, that'll never be me. Or like, oh, I tried once in Ellen

Speaker 2 Elementary School and, you know, somebody said an offhanded remark to you and like, oh, I guess that's not for me. Oh, I shouldn't sing.
Oh, I shouldn't sing.

Speaker 2 You know, people get these like micro-traumas from childhood that they're like, this is my story. It's never for me.
It's never for me ever again.

Speaker 2 We need to break those narratives because here's the fact. On your way to work this morning, a certain song came on and you cranked that song.

Speaker 2 Maybe on your lunch break, you got a certain sandwich that just sent your taste buds afire and you knew it was because it's your favorite sandwich in the whole world.

Speaker 2 Maybe your bathroom, you painted a certain color because you love that color yellow.

Speaker 2 You have information coming into you from your senses, preferences, things that call to you that you actually do love.

Speaker 2 And there's moments that guide all of us towards what the language of us can be. You can speak the language of you.
You just have to pay attention to what it is that you notice about life coming in.

Speaker 2 What do you notice? What are the patterns that you kind of constantly see? There's a key in there to what you have inside of you to exhale and creativity. I

Speaker 2 simply want for you

Speaker 2 to make it through your life with a companion. It really is a companion.

Speaker 1 What is a companion?

Speaker 2 Your intuition and your creativity become something that can be like a light in the dark for you in the cathedral that we each contain within ourselves. We get to explore this.

Speaker 2 And this is the way to actually explore it and come to know what it is that makes up what has always been about you and what will always be about you and what there still is to discover.

Speaker 2 And all of us need a friend in times when it's like the loneliest times of life.

Speaker 2 And my, my hope for you, the listener, is that I can just encourage you to be worthy of taking on this deeper meaning and existence in your life that could even heal the wounds that you have in the process.

Speaker 1 Well, what I'm getting from listening to you is that it's literally like the aliveness. of life that flows into you and that can flow out of you.

Speaker 1 And that brings me to these four four principles of creativity that we're going to talk about. And the first one that you have is shed the weight of expectations.

Speaker 1 Now, what does that mean to you, Phil?

Speaker 2 Shedding the weight is all about worthiness. People have access problems and stories about themselves that are incomplete and limiting.

Speaker 2 And my hunch is that most people don't realize how they're already being creative in their life so many small ways but to begin to see and hear and understand the language of you gives you these clues that you have something to say you can exhale this life this experience you said that there are small ways that you're already being creative and you don't even realize it yeah can you give me examples of that okay So a good example would be for me, if you,

Speaker 2 you know, it's Friday night, it's pizza night, kids come home from school, you throw the pizza in the oven.

Speaker 2 You add certain things onto it because your oldest kid likes on half, the younger kid likes on half. But you like the way that you, you kind of found a different way into it.

Speaker 2 So even just making a pizza that wasn't there before, you learned how to make this thing. Okay.
And then you feed it to your kids. It was not there before.
Now it's here.

Speaker 2 Your kids, you know, hunger was not there before. It's here.
And then it was satiated. You move on with your day.

Speaker 2 Maybe there's something that your grandma made for you when you were a kid and that calls to you and you decide you're going to make that for your kids.

Speaker 2 That is the quintessential version of creativity for me is to take an existence, something from your existence and your past and your present, you roll it all into a ball and then you just find a way to put it together in a way that makes sense for you.

Speaker 2 That can be as simple as that.

Speaker 1 As simple as making a pizza.

Speaker 2 And making a BLT. Just the way that the lettuce is cut, the way these things happen, or the way that

Speaker 2 maybe it's the way you tie a fishing line just like your grandpa taught you but you found a way to do it a little bit better so it doesn't break quite as many times and and you'll know it when you find it because here's the thing it calls to you

Speaker 2 something is calling to you okay across space and time i don't know what it is but something is calling to you

Speaker 2 And your creativity is in the middle of that. Something is calling to you.
And you see it through your day. You see it through your years.

Speaker 2 And maybe it's like some certain it could be like a wood carving it could be something like oh i always wanted to work with wood oh my gosh i would love to do pottery someday oh my gosh you know and but you've really it's like but not not surfing not this it's like you definitely know like oh i really want to take a pottery class why haven't you taken it yet is part of the story you're telling yourself and that's the shed the expectation so is the expectation oh yeah even the weight that you

Speaker 1 you put on yourself that i can't be creative i can't do that is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 Shed the expectations is like understand how you are already living and breathing this life in and you are already noticing certain patterns in life that you're hearing or you're seeing, certain things you prefer, you like.

Speaker 2 These are your guideposts. Let them come in.
Start to name them so you understand what they are. And then give these things to yourself in a way that like is like, okay, here's some clues.

Speaker 2 Sit with yourself, you know, what is it that's calling? What is there? What is that's calling to you through all of these things? Something is in there that's calling to you.

Speaker 2 And most listeners, you know what I'm talking about. There's stuff that you know what it is and you haven't given it to yourself yet.
You've always wanted to do it. And there's like an inkling.

Speaker 2 There's something deeper inside. This is your intuition.

Speaker 1 Could it be as simple as being,

Speaker 1 I don't know, somebody that, you know, I'm trying to think of a job where you're basically a walking Excel spreadsheet. Like it's all about the numbers.
It's all about everything lining up.

Speaker 1 You consider yourself to be just one of those types of people that's not that creative, even though I think a job like that's very creative.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 could it be just this impulse to want to wear fun socks?

Speaker 2 Oh, thank you for saying that so much, Mel. The thing is,

Speaker 1 he's lifting up his foot on the table and he's got, he's got music bars on his socks as he's kicking back and having a glass of water.

Speaker 2 I'm doing the whole interview with this, with this sock up on the table right now. You're going to pull your groin if you do.
already did once today anyway all right

Speaker 2 uh listen you know wearing socks is an expression there's a preference in there you saw those socks you bought them and maybe you're keeping them a secret because they're hidden under those pants all the time but maybe it's a little giggle you're there for yourself you amuse yourself by putting those socks on amen you are being creative today that is absolutely what it is you got a belt buckle that you want to wear sometimes that's just like well you know i don't know if most people care about this or not but i do

Speaker 2 Wear that thing.

Speaker 1 Well, what I love about

Speaker 1 the simplicity of this is that it's accessible to any of us.

Speaker 1 And the first principle of shedding the weight of expectations is probably the biggest weight that people have is what you think you're supposed to be versus this small thing that you're inviting us to pay attention to that's already inside us.

Speaker 1 And I absolutely love, I'm going to keep coming back to it, I'm sure, like the chorus in a song that becomes an earworm, that the fact that there is certain music that makes you come alive, the fact that there are certain places that make you drop your shoulders, the fact that you can taste certain things and you have this preference, the fact that you like bow ties versus, this is all evidence of this thing in you that comes alive based on the world itself.

Speaker 1 And now we're learning about how to allow ourselves by shedding expectations that we have about who we are to express that outwardly, even if it's just for yourself. You're wearing funny underwear.

Speaker 1 Nobody knows, but you think it's funny. And that makes something happen in you.

Speaker 1 And that's the purpose of creativity. It's both to lift up the spirit.

Speaker 1 But there was a second part that you're talking about a lot that I want to keep highlighting, which is the fact that you're noticing in yourself the desire to wear funny underwear or the desire to have a purple highlighter or the desire to take the pottery class, that is a way to start to tune your inner guitar string and pay attention to your intuition.

Speaker 1 And I want to add to this because I think this principle is so important.

Speaker 1 There's this famous Pablo Picasso quote, right? All children are born artists. The problem is to remain an artist as we grow up.
And Phil, I was looking at all this research.

Speaker 1 There was a really landmark study done that was all about creativity. And it was done in 1968.
And they found that among five-year-olds, 98% of five-year-olds like score crazy high for creativity.

Speaker 1 By the time adults are tested for creativity, 2% of them.

Speaker 1 And I personally believe it's because

Speaker 1 at some point we don't understand

Speaker 1 that we were all born with this inside us, and we kind of mixed up that being creative is about something that you create that other people like,

Speaker 1 when really it's about allowing yourself to express yourself in whatever form it's in.

Speaker 1 And so, for me, I love this first rule that you have: that you have to shed the weight of expectations because it's the expectations that you have

Speaker 1 on yourself,

Speaker 1 and that's

Speaker 1 how

Speaker 1 you start to close off your own creative expression.

Speaker 2 Oftentimes, parents will close off theirs and surrender it all to their kids. They'll try and put all of their unmet expectations in themselves onto their kids.
Piano lessons is a great example.

Speaker 2 You take piano lessons as a kid, you quit at some point in middle school. And then later on in life, you really miss it.
And you're one of those people who says,

Speaker 2 I really wish I hadn't quit. But you know what you do?

Speaker 2 you sign your kids up for lessons because you're like well you do it you you and then the kids ultimately feel not only the expectation of the pending recital and all that that that that happens that turns a lot of kids off but also they feel the weight of your unmet expectations in yourself and the regret there's an unresolved

Speaker 2 issue within you that you thrust onto your kids.

Speaker 1 I did this. I made all my kids take guitar lessons.

Speaker 1 All of them. And I've always wanted to play guitar.

Speaker 1 I have never picked up a guitar because I have a story that I'm not good at it.

Speaker 1 You have a banjo in the studio today. And as you were tuning it, I was, I felt this thing stirring.

Speaker 1 And that is the perfect example and evidence that there is something in you that is already alive, wanting to be expressed.

Speaker 1 And somewhere along the way, you

Speaker 1 are the one that blocked it. And so if the person listening is feeling that, should they go take lessons?

Speaker 1 Like, what is the way that you lean in, you shed the weight of expectation and you lean into this thing?

Speaker 2 This needs to be resolved and healed on a broad scale. This specific, just the piano lesson example.
Okay.

Speaker 2 This is a broad, I really do, because I have met so many adults that are sitting in that regret and they get to the end of their life.

Speaker 2 The message is this.

Speaker 2 Let your children witness you reconnecting to something that you lost when you were young. This is for you to build a relationship and reconnect with yourself again.

Speaker 2 And then when your kids see you do that, they will understand something about the ongoing journey of life. It doesn't end when something ends.
You always have a choice.

Speaker 1 I love how you explain things, Phil. Principle number two: lower the stakes.

Speaker 1 Phil Cook, what does that mean?

Speaker 2 Creativity and intuition are the language of your soul. I'm going to speak on this level.
This is how I talk. This is me.
Okay. This is where I've arrived in life.
I talk on this level.

Speaker 2 I'll talk to the on this level to the person who I see outside the door, whoever is near me at any place. This is just the level that I want to be at and operate and vibrate at.

Speaker 2 So this is where I'm at, you know?

Speaker 1 You know what I say?

Speaker 2 Let them. let them.
This is the language of your soul. Your soul is, there's no one else in there, it's just you.
You're the only one in there, Mel. I'm the only one in here.

Speaker 2 There's no one else in here with us, right?

Speaker 2 And it can be a scary place in here, you know.

Speaker 2 And that voice, you know, that drill sergeant voice when it starts rocketing down, you know, at you and telling you you're doing everything wrong, you're not good enough, and all these things, right?

Speaker 2 But we have to actually break things down and lower the stakes. How do we do that? In my, you know, in my humble opinion, we just have to understand that this is our realm.

Speaker 2 It doesn't belong to the same time and space that our society is pressing upon us at all times. Okay.
This is your realm. This is the language of you.
This is a place where you belong to you. Okay.

Speaker 2 And in that realm, you assign the values. You have to assign your own value to what it is.

Speaker 1 And here's the thing about creativity, and you may disagree.

Speaker 1 We get so up in our heads. And I think the reason why we do is because when I hear the word creativity, I think about the output of the thing.

Speaker 1 And then I immediately think about how other people are going to react to it.

Speaker 1 And for me,

Speaker 1 when you told me that one of your principles is lowering the stakes, I started to think a lot about the fact

Speaker 1 that a lot of us edit ourselves and we tell ourselves we're not creative because we think what we're going to make sucks.

Speaker 1 And that's not the way to think about this as I'm listening to you.

Speaker 1 That creativity has nothing to do with

Speaker 1 the physical object or the song or the painting or what other people are going to do in reaction to it. Creativity and the purpose of it is for something inside of you to come alive.

Speaker 1 And so lowering the stakes for me sounds a little bit like this.

Speaker 1 it's not that deep it's not that deep mill we're literally talking about allowing yourself to play the piano or to wear funky underwear which now i feel like i need to go out and buy crazy underwear just to like have a funny little secret that makes you feel

Speaker 2 over my jeans over your jeans

Speaker 2 out loud out loud

Speaker 1 But you know what's interesting about that is that if it's not that deep and you're lowering the stakes, you're like, can you imagine what a day would look like if you came downstairs in your house just for the fun of it?

Speaker 1 Because you heard Phil Cook make a joke and you're like, you know what, I'm going to do I'm going to shake up my family on a Monday morning.

Speaker 1 I'm going to come downstairs with just a really serious look on my face. And I'm going to have a pair of like printed speedo underwear with banana print on it

Speaker 1 like on top of my jeans. And I'm going to see how long it takes for people to notice.
Just because I had this thing where Phil made me laugh. And the fact that I laughed is

Speaker 1 a sign that I'm a creative artistic person.

Speaker 1 And now, the fact that I'm even thinking about doing it, it's not that deep, but something comes alive, and you'll remember that Monday. And isn't that the point of this?

Speaker 1 And so, I personally feel like lowering the stakes for me means before you start thinking about how good or bad the thing is,

Speaker 1 just think of you can't.

Speaker 1 You can't. There is a value in your life.

Speaker 2 But, you know, Martin Scorisesi, the personal is profound.

Speaker 1 What does that mean? That's a little deep for me.

Speaker 2 The personal is profound.

Speaker 2 You're going to be thinking big, but big is a product of commerce. You're talking about artifact.
You're talking about consumption. You're talking about sale.
You're talking about all this stuff.

Speaker 2 And this world where all these things move fast, this is a world where dreams go to die. This is the world where comparison sneaks in and steals everything from you and steals your authenticity right

Speaker 2 we don't want this we don't need any of that you just got to make something that really makes sense to you and is personal to you and even understanding that like you may not understand what you're doing at some times but as your senses guide you you will begin to understand there are things that at play here and when you get out of your own way and let the universe unfold through you you have no control over the ending of this you just get out of the way and you can just kind of have to let go of it i've seen a lot of records uh uh a lot of artists kill kill their record or kill like their chance at releasing it right at that last five percent when they've put all of their energy into it and then they feel this massive sweep of vulnerability come in where they're like oh my god everyone's gonna think this is terrible everyone's gonna like it's the last minute that's the place where a lot of records and a lot of things die because you're getting ready to release it into the world where you have no control over what's gonna happen right

Speaker 2 most things you don't have to release them into the world.

Speaker 1 But hold on, I want to make this relatable. Yeah.
Because if you've ever wanted to have bright yellow nail polish

Speaker 1 and you go and you start painting it and the nails are almost done and you're about to be finished and you like it, but then you think, what are people going to think? Maybe this is too bright.

Speaker 1 That is that 5% moment that you're talking about.

Speaker 1 And we all have it.

Speaker 1 And you are a creative person at work.

Speaker 1 If you're the kind of person that sits at work and you have ideas and meetings all the time and they get right from your chest up your throat out to your mouth yeah they hit like right at the jaw

Speaker 1 that's what you're talking about yeah that there is a moment where the creativity is about to flow through you

Speaker 2 that you then close the gates and you're saying you got to lower the stakes that's the spot the indicator is that how vulnerable you feel is an indicator of how personal of something that you made.

Speaker 2 What lies on the other side, if you push through that, is something you don't even understand.

Speaker 2 How meaningful that's going to be in your life.

Speaker 1 What is it? Like, what is it that allows you if you walk out of a nail salon with the yellow nails?

Speaker 2 What it is, is like, it's betting on yourself.

Speaker 2 And it's, it's actually realizing that your limitations are your liberation in this realm and your limitations dictate your style and that your style is only you and only you could have made this thing.

Speaker 2 And if you find a window to actually just trust, it's a trust fall.

Speaker 2 If you find a window to actually like follow through and release this into the world, what you find actually is that people will meet you there, even if it's one friend.

Speaker 2 And you've never written, you've never read one of your science fiction stories and you're sitting there and you've written like 60 of them and you're just like, something is calling you.

Speaker 2 And there's one person that maybe only one person you you think that you're safe enough to read it to. That's a powerful moment where you actually witness yourself.

Speaker 2 It's the completion of that that actually hones your intuition. That's actually the exhale.
When you get there, that's the exhale.

Speaker 2 And once you do exhale, like you actually get to inhale again, but this time with a different fresh oxygen, you have fresh experience and something new is going to come in.

Speaker 2 And then the breathing process happens over and over. And then you start to realize you have an intuition and an inner voice.
And if you start to trust it, all the doubt comes flooding in.

Speaker 2 You're like, I just got to push through this. I have no idea why, but I just have to allow it to go.
And you just like close your eyes and just be like, quesara, sira.

Speaker 1 Phil, I just love listening to you. That was so amazing.
Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 I think two principles in, you and I are at a perfect time for a quick break and let our wonderful sponsors get a chance to do their thing.

Speaker 1 And if you're listening to what Phil and I are talking about and you're starting to feel more in in touch with your creativity or you're honing into that intuition, this can apply to everyone in your life.

Speaker 1 And I know when you're listening, you probably thought of a few people in particular, I know I did, that you know are way more creative than they give themselves credit for. Send them this episode.

Speaker 1 Let them hear what Phil and I are breaking down. And don't you dare go anywhere.
We've got so much more to unpack. So stay with us.
We'll be back after a short break.

Speaker 1 Here's something to remember: pay attention to how people make you feel. Dating isn't just about the surface details we sometimes get caught up on.

Speaker 1 What matters most is whether being with someone helps you feel grounded and fully yourself. That kind of alignment is what leads to lasting relationships.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. It's your friend Mel.
And today you and I are sitting down with the wonderful and supremely creative musician, Phil Cook.

Speaker 1 Phil and I have two more principles of creativity to share with you. Okay, Phil, now that we're back, let's get into the third principle.
Bring yourself to the work. What does that mean to you?

Speaker 2 My career is all about music. My bringing yourself to the work, obviously, can mean spending time at the piano every day, spending time with an instrument.

Speaker 2 It's bringing yourself to the altar where you are spending time with yourself and developing, right?

Speaker 2 But, you know, for me, I mean, let's look at this real quick.

Speaker 1 He's got a tray of rocks, everybody. He's got rocks and things.
What is it? What is this?

Speaker 2 It's not work to me, which I love so much. Okay.
Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
I'm clumsy.

Speaker 2 Like I have, like, I always like to say my gross motor skills are gross. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, gross.
Like, I have my life. I trip and fall in public.
I like, I, I, like, I look around.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh man, am I the only person that trips this much in public? I drop things when I'm carrying two things. Like, I've always been clumsy.
So I have to look down when I walk. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 2 This is my limitation. I realize this about myself.
One of my limitations is I'm clumsy. So I have to look down so I don't trip on things.
But when I the process of that, I started noticing rocks.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Because I'm looking down all the time. So, uh, so it's funny.

Speaker 2 Like when we assign the value, like I just like, don't know why I pick certain rocks up, but I'm just like, okay, here we are. I'm somewhere.
I'm somewhere up. Maybe I'm in Lake Superior.

Speaker 2 And I find, oh, here's a rock that has a perfect stripe on it. Oh my gosh, I love that stripe.
Look at that. I don't know why I do.
Gosh, that's a great stripe in there. Oh, here's another one.

Speaker 2 I have a whole three windowsills in my house right now that are filled with just rocks that have stripes. This is the one I got.
This is yours, Mel, actually. This is the one I got for you.

Speaker 1 Is that a heart?

Speaker 2 Sure. There it is right there.

Speaker 2 It's all in how you see it, Mel. That's right.

Speaker 1 You twisted it and now it's a heart. Exactly.

Speaker 2 And I don't know the names of these things. This is just my intuition.
But in my, in my realm with like just picking up rocks, I just decided that.

Speaker 2 I've I value these different things and like I like how they look. I like how they feel.

Speaker 2 I surround myself in my house with them and I realize over time how much that means to me to just be have all these rocks around me.

Speaker 2 That I'm like, oh, these are all like millions of years old, way older than anything I'm ever going to understand in my life. There's something in there, right?

Speaker 2 And after I die and I'm gone away, someone will probably throw these on the ground and they'll just be rocks. Well, you know what?

Speaker 1 They weren't for them. They weren't for you.
And this is what I want to say about this, okay?

Speaker 1 Because a lot of people, myself included, when they hear the word creativity, they think painting, they think music, they think knitting, they think building, they think you know, pottery, they think writing, they think art, they think about the output.

Speaker 1 But what I love about these examples, and especially the way you come alive, when you explain

Speaker 1 how taking a walk and actually noticing what rocks you're drawn to

Speaker 1 is creativity because your intuition

Speaker 1 is what is pulling you toward certain rocks. You don't pick them all up.
No.

Speaker 1 And what you feel about it

Speaker 1 is creativity coming alive inside you. And we've all had those experiences of walking on a beach or walking on a trail and you stumble upon something, a shell, a rock, a feather, a cool thing.

Speaker 1 Look at that one. Look at that one.
And that is the power of creativity in your life because it's no longer just a boring ass walk.

Speaker 1 You are connected to something bigger. And that bigger thing is both yourself

Speaker 1 and the larger forces at work in the world.

Speaker 1 And what I love about this conversation is it's broadening out what it means to live a creative life, like how you organize a shelf, whether or not you collect shells or certain types of statues, how you solve a problem, how you may talk to a customer.

Speaker 1 that you drop your tone of voice in order to kind of play the note to get somebody to like all of that

Speaker 1 is what you're talking about when you say creativity. You know, you've spoken a lot about your kids.
You have two sons, one with autism.

Speaker 1 How has your son's way of seeing the world shaped how you show up creatively? I mean, do you see echoes of his perspective

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 your own

Speaker 1 way that you move through the world?

Speaker 2 My kids are my greatest teachers.

Speaker 2 And I've come to know them as that.

Speaker 2 They help me to see myself in real time,

Speaker 2 dealing the cards that I've dealt and understanding the choices that I'm making every day, you know?

Speaker 2 And the way they both see the world has really helped me to understand how I see the world too, you know. My oldest son is 14, just turned 14.
He has autism.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Autism is a, it's like your five senses are on, are wide open with no filter at all times. So everything is coming in at all times.

Speaker 2 And the effect of that for me to understand over time,

Speaker 2 experientially,

Speaker 2 you know, what it must be like to be in that body is perceiving so much at all times, it's hard to know exactly how to talk about it. And

Speaker 2 I've come to understand that autism is, autism is an evolution in my heart, in my mind, the way I feel and understand him.

Speaker 2 It's a return to nature. It's beautiful the way nature exists as it is.
And we should be looking to,

Speaker 2 we should be, I should be looking to my son to really understand like how many

Speaker 2 ways our society has just gradually boilerplated up the amount of noise, the amount of just like violence that we have to take in, the amount of just distraction, the amount of everything.

Speaker 2 And we've kind of agreed to it on all these terms where we become so numb to it. And the reminder of him to me is like, I can't believe how much we've accepted,

Speaker 2 how much noise and volume we've accepted, how much terror, you know, we've accepted as just this is how things are.

Speaker 2 And forgetting that all of us bring not only the energy we bring, but all this internal energy that we have all day. There's a day like two weeks ago,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I was having a hard moment. It was internal.
I was in the bathroom. I was taking a shower.
So he was in a different room

Speaker 2 and it was, it was, I was, I was going through it. I was just really being hard on myself because I still am capable of that any day of the week.

Speaker 2 And he knocks on the door and he just comes in and he just gives me a hug.

Speaker 2 He knew. from two rooms away.
He could feel it from two rooms away that dad's having a hard time.

Speaker 2 So I imagine what it's like for him to be in a crowd, for him to be at school all day and have to absorb all these inner conflicts that people are having with themselves and then all the rest of it.

Speaker 2 So I've found when I see him going through his days is that creating an environment that fosters quiet and peace is one level.

Speaker 2 Playing my piano in a very certain way at night when they go to bed, gently, you know,

Speaker 2 and then, you know, just paying attention to like, he helps me. I watch him when he meets people.
I watch him when he's reading a room.

Speaker 2 And he's like a guide for me of like, what's really going on in this room energetically, what's going on. Yeah, I learned so much from him all the time.
And he is such a purity to him.

Speaker 2 And I realize when I watch him, how like he is with animals, especially how he is with babies. He's so pure.

Speaker 2 And like every baby that comes up to him, just like, they just light up with him for some reason.

Speaker 2 they just whatever any kind of kid that he has even if they're just a really closed off or scared or timid child he somehow has this way of just like meeting them exactly where they are and they and they just they just open right up to him there's a purity in there and a return to nature is what i'm saying so i think for me i just

Speaker 2 You know, I realize how important it is for him to have his very quiet sanctuary place.

Speaker 2 Funny enough, when he gets home from school, his sanctuary in his room is where he puts on thunderstruck by ACDC every single day after school and turns it up.

Speaker 2 And I hear a bunch of banging around in the room. I have no idea what's going on in there, but I assume it's awesome.
It's very private.

Speaker 2 Probably dancing at air guitaring, whatever it is, you know, but he, everyone needs that. Everyone needs that space to regroup.
You know, we got to find that sanctuary, regroup. And

Speaker 2 everyone needs it.

Speaker 1 Phil, that is just. amazing.
And I want to take a minute and just allow what Phil just shared with you to really sink sink in.

Speaker 1 And to you listening, I know you have so many folks in mind that can really benefit from what Phil and I are talking about. Send them this episode.
Let them experience the gift that is Phil Cook.

Speaker 1 Like the Picasso quote goes, we are all born artists. Send this episode to your loved ones who may have forgotten that.
And we're going to take a quick pause so you can hear word from our sponsors.

Speaker 1 Oh, and this music that you're going to hear going into the break, this is from Phil's newest album, Appalachia Boreolis. And we have one more more principal from phil and i on the way so stay with us

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today's episode is all about getting back in touch with your creative self.

Speaker 1 Now, Phil Cook has spent the past two decades working with artists like Boni Ver and producing several of his own albums.

Speaker 1 Phil is one of the most creative people I know, and that's why I brought him into our Boston studio today to share his four creative principles with you. You had sort of hinted to this earlier.

Speaker 1 It's find a sanctuary for your creativity. So tell me all about this fourth principle, Phil.

Speaker 2 Sanctuary is a place where the world falls away. And what that means to you is what it means to you.

Speaker 2 It's just a place that you find the world falls away. It Could be while you're cooking, you know, could be while you're just taking a walk.

Speaker 2 It could be that song that you know and you put it on, nothing else happening in the world. Nothing else.
Doesn't matter. You're singing along.
You're one with it. You're in your thing.

Speaker 2 You're flowing. You're in the, you're in your space.
You're safe.

Speaker 2 Even if it's three minutes, even if it's your car, sanctuary can be a rock in your pocket that just brings you back to a time where you just something was really important and meaningful in your life.

Speaker 2 And when you touch it, you realize like, okay, I'm going to through this. Sanctuary is everywhere, all around us all the time.

Speaker 2 You just have to find and notice what yours is and then start to explore what it is. Start to explore your sanctuary.

Speaker 2 It can be made out of, you know, all the things that you like, all the rocks, all the things, all the wood, all the jokes you have.

Speaker 2 You surround yourself by these things and understand, like, this is you

Speaker 2 belonging to you.

Speaker 2 I belong to striped rocks.

Speaker 2 I belong to Curtis Mayfield's voice. You know,

Speaker 2 I belong to northern Wisconsin and the lakes.

Speaker 2 I belong to fireside conversations with deep chosen family and friends. These are the things that I belong to.
These are all my sanctuary.

Speaker 2 So practicing these means you're building the thing that is safe from outside intrusion.

Speaker 1 Phil, that is so beautiful. And I want to offer up a couple examples because I love that you said it's all around you and it's something that you need and it's something that you can take with you.

Speaker 1 And so for me, as you were describing the various things, I started thinking about

Speaker 1 the walk that I take my dogs on. I started thinking about the place that I like to sit at home underneath this cover in my favorite old Adirondack chair.
And I started thinking about,

Speaker 1 I don't know why I'm crying, but I do, I did,

Speaker 1 yeah, because it's there. I'm thinking about like just just being out in the garden.
I love to just walk around. It sounds kind of dumb, but it isn't.
So good. And just look, okay, what came up today?

Speaker 1 What little weed is growing today? Let me pull that out. Let me admire the flower that's starting to open.
There's millions of places in front of a fire reading a book.

Speaker 1 Like if you really start to think about this,

Speaker 1 there are places where this happens for you. And what you're saying in terms of

Speaker 1 tapping into and unlocking the force of creativity and intuition in your life, is that paying attention to those places and spaces and times of day

Speaker 1 or the thing on the shelf or the photo of somebody that really allows you to stop and exhale? That's what you mean by sanctuary. You don't have to create anything there.

Speaker 2 You don't need an altar. You just have to realize it's in here.

Speaker 2 It's in here where you're trying to build.

Speaker 1 you know this is where you find yourself over and over again and where you meet yourself fully how do you think the person listening or watching right now could go about this like what would you say if somebody's never thought about this i mean i kind of believe that even as you're hearing us share what we're sharing that there's something inside you that guitar string is starting to

Speaker 1 shake a little like you're starting to attune to what you're saying so i think you do know but if you were to give somebody just a simple thing to do, what would it be in order to start to find that sanctuary, that place for you where the world drops away?

Speaker 2 Find a way to start where you are. You might be a city person and your whole life is bustle and hustle.
And that's what you understand about the rhythm of life. That's the music you're hearing.

Speaker 2 That's the landscape you're reading every day. That's where you're going to draw from.

Speaker 2 If you're in the country, if you're in the desert, if you're at the ocean, wherever that landscape is where you start, that's where you start. Your environment is there.

Speaker 2 That's the landscape you're reading. All the patterns that you're taking in with your five senses are just coming in through that landscape, you know.

Speaker 2 And so start to just pay attention to what you notice. Start to notice what you notice.

Speaker 2 And worthiness, you have to always understand. Look, you are somebody's daughter.
You are somebody's mother. You are somebody's aunt.
You are somebody's granddaughter.

Speaker 2 All these people are a circle around you. And I know that there's people in your life that just loved you for exactly who you were and saw you and got you.

Speaker 2 Doesn't have to be a lot of people, but you belong to that space and you need to see yourself from their point of view.

Speaker 2 I always tell people, like, when you're listening to those mixes on the couch and you're just listening for, am I out of tune? If this is going to happen, oh my gosh, what's going to happen?

Speaker 2 And you're just only criticizing, just be like, well, if your grandma was sitting on the couch next to you you and she's listening, she'd just be sitting there. It's great.

Speaker 2 So great. You know, that's so great.
Oh, oh, wow. Oh, cool.
Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 My grandma was really wild and zany, but like, if she just bring her, bring her in there, like, put her in there. That's the, that, that's the voice you are hearing with.

Speaker 2 That's the love that accepted you. That's why you're doing what you do.
You need to live in that space. Grandmother energy is the energy we all need always, all time.

Speaker 2 It's there's a universal, benevolent, wonderful, abundant life force that passes through that, you know, all of us can draw from. We know what it is, even if we didn't necessarily get it, right?

Speaker 2 You know what that is. It's unconditional love.
It's really being seen. What do we need? We need to be seen in our life.

Speaker 1 Well, I think first you have to see yourself. And what I love about find a sanctuary

Speaker 1 is that for all of us, there is a place where you feel like you can exhale.

Speaker 1 In fact, Baudelaire, who is the extraordinary producer that worked with you and me on this episode today, was saying that when he was in New York City, that sanctuary for him was Central Park.

Speaker 1 That's where he would go in the middle of the day, you know, in the busy workday, just to exhale.

Speaker 1 There is a place, there's a walk, there's a trail that you like where you look down and look for rocks or you look up and look at the birds. And so I think you can start there

Speaker 1 and then

Speaker 1 notice

Speaker 1 what happens.

Speaker 2 When you find a way to actually meet yourself there, if what you're doing

Speaker 2 produces some kind of a thing and you know exactly who that's for and you make it for somebody and you have that in your heart, then you really truly know how to breathe out this creativity.

Speaker 2 That's truly where it is. It doesn't even ever have to go beyond that.
It can just be sharing it with one person that you make it for.

Speaker 2 And last fall, this is the newest thing. This is the newest thing right here.
I grew up a Boy Scout. I had a pocket knife

Speaker 2 and I would just like thup, thup, thup, thup, thup, thup, thup. And I made points for 40 years.
I would just sit there and make, oh, yeah, cool. Thup, thup, thup, thup, thup, you know, just

Speaker 2 hacking away like a man hacking a brush, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And so, whittling, right? But it was like so crude, such a crude thing. And I'm at a fire with my friend Daniel last fall, and we're having we're up all night.

Speaker 2 And I can't see because it's a fire, I can't see my hands. And I start by going thup, thup, thup, thup, thup.

Speaker 2 And eventually I realize I start to talk about my girlfriend, whose father has just passed away suddenly

Speaker 2 and and all the worry I have for her. And I wish I could take this worry off of her.
You know, and I'm sitting and talking, and I realize that by feel, I'm just slowly like using the knife.

Speaker 2 I'm kind of unconsciously getting out of my own way. I don't know what's going on.
I'm not sure. I'm just talking, and this is happening.

Speaker 2 And essentially, by the hour's end, I had carved like basically the shape of the inside of my hand

Speaker 1 into wood into wood.

Speaker 2 And I've and I've shaved it with the blade and with the edge.

Speaker 2 I've shaved it smooth and I shaved a worry path for a thumb in there and I and I worried it out like I worried the whole thing out and I knew it was for her when I gave it to her because I had worried about her while I made it and then I realized in that moment how I was a chain right there with my grandpa gave me a worstone when I was a kid and I have his wood carving knife above my mantle.

Speaker 2 I've never used it, just sat there. I've always wanted to work with wood my whole life, always wanted to do it.
I always like, I want to make a chair. I want to make something like that.

Speaker 2 That's called to me. Like that's something that called me since I was a kid, but I was like, I'm clumsy.
I play piano. There's no way I'm not cutting a finger off.

Speaker 2 There's just no way I'm going to cut my finger off. So that desire, though, called to me and called to me.
Yeah, I'm 45 years old and I'm and I'm sitting on this fire.

Speaker 2 And I realize in that moment that my intuition is taking care of it for me. It's doing it for me.

Speaker 2 I got out of my own way long enough for me to realize that I did something for directly to someone else and I can do this. And so, this is what I've been doing.

Speaker 2 And I'm sharing it with the audience today because it's very private for me. It's very private.
It's just something one-to-one.

Speaker 2 But I'm doing it because I have an opportunity to just talk about something that's very personal to me.

Speaker 2 And I don't care how good it is. I don't care.
There are people that can whittle a loon right now out of something. You know what I mean? That's good.
This is what my things look like, you know.

Speaker 2 But last week, I was at my cabin, you know,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 you know, and when I make one for them, so this is with an M. This is the Mel.
Oh, Oh,

Speaker 2 Phil.

Speaker 2 So this is a.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. It's so smooth.
Yeah. It's like you can hold, you literally, it's like, I feel like you're holding your finger.
And then you're like, it's like having somebody's hand in your hand.

Speaker 1 And then you've got this little like,

Speaker 1 like a thing that you rub your.

Speaker 2 Never going to sell them. I'm never going to make them be honest.
It's just like, I'm just, I just. I flap when I was a kid.
I flapped a lot when I got excited.

Speaker 2 I have a lot of energy and it's just a way for me to like,

Speaker 2 it just helps me worry away something and also think about somebody. And that's just my own thing.
That's like something that intuition told me to do.

Speaker 2 And somehow I got of my own way enough to realize that it connected me to my mother and my grandfather, and that I'm just following suit in this longer line.

Speaker 2 And I'm very honored to be on this podcast. And this is just something that I, I just,

Speaker 2 am.

Speaker 1 I am so honored. I feel like I have a piece of you.
Yeah. Because I do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And keep it in your pocket.

Speaker 1 I will keep it in my pocket. I love this.

Speaker 1 And I love absolutely everything that you have shared today. I got so much out of this.

Speaker 2 Me too.

Speaker 1 I mean, what a, what a gift you are.

Speaker 1 I would love, Phil, for you to speak directly to the person

Speaker 1 who has

Speaker 1 been with us. And if they take one action out of everything

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 you have shared today, what do you you think the most important thing to do is?

Speaker 2 Know that you belong to you. Know that there's nobody else in there.

Speaker 2 And if you can find a way to talk to yourself

Speaker 2 and give yourself what you need, like

Speaker 2 a friend, be that to yourself, that there's so much in store, the depth, not the quantity, the quality of your life. Your inner world and these things.
We go to therapy. These are helpful.

Speaker 2 We meditate. We go for hunts.
But there's a different expression. Our soul longs for things that are older than we know.

Speaker 2 And we can participate in this life in a way that really tells a story, why we're here, what we're doing here, you know, in a way for others to know, in a way for others to feel.

Speaker 2 And you paying attention to your inner voice and coming to know what that is.

Speaker 2 through creativity and knowing that you already are in your own way you already are you know allows you to be a part of that story in a way that you will ultimately understand in some way and in some ways you won't and that's what's so beautiful about it because you know not the seeds you plant when you say yes to you you know

Speaker 1 i'll tell you what i'm gonna do

Speaker 1 well first of all i'm gonna take my worry wittle my worry stick okay it's called a worry stick i'm gonna take my phil's worried worry stick i'm gonna stick it in my pocket and then i'm gonna go out to my favorite place to walk and I'm going to look for a striped stone.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And when I see a stone with a stripe in it, I'm going to pick it up and put it in my pocket next to my worry stick.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I am going to put it somewhere that I'm going to see, probably my bedside table every single day.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to have that striped rock be a reminder of you, Phil, and a reminder that I am a creative person.

Speaker 1 I will never ever look at creativity the same way

Speaker 1 again.

Speaker 1 like i really get that it's like a part of who you are that it's like something there for you to tap into that deepens your experience of life itself oh yeah

Speaker 2 yeah i just totally get it phil thank you thank you for having me here i just am so i'm so honored this is amazing you know honestly i mean you know we you know

Speaker 2 having to like shed the weight all the steps that were in here apply to everything last night in the hotel room even you know me just preparing to to get onto this show i had to go through all four of these steps last night to like remind myself that it's okay that i'm doing this and that you know i mean sometimes you're just a 46 year old guy who's just you know freshly divorced and trying to raise two kids and starting over with his life and you get through a strange series of circumstances, you get asked to be on a show.

Speaker 2 It's full of researchers and experts and you're like, how do I unhook from that? How do I actually, am I is this a test to fail? How do I get there?

Speaker 2 All the things were happening in my head, you know, but like, this is, I'm telling you, I'm serious.

Speaker 2 It's just like for me, like to have these artifacts around me and just bring them with me because I trusted in them. And I, I, I wrote my thumb on that thing all night last night.

Speaker 2 And I just like had my grandma and that look on her face the whole night. And I realized, like, it's okay, Phil.
Just, I know what she'd tell me, you know, just you do you, man.

Speaker 2 It should be okay, you know, like, there's, this is, it's okay. You know, I know so many people that, that, I would love, that deserve to be on this show and that I think are just beautiful thinkers.

Speaker 2 and they're the most inspirational people in my life and they're all here with me today and

Speaker 2 yeah i'm so grateful phil cook

Speaker 1 you are

Speaker 1 an incredible human being oh so are you mal robbins thank you so are you thank you for being here thank you for

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 exhaling yeah with us today and teaching us to exhale and tap into that undeniable creative force that's that's inside each and every one of us. I mean, just

Speaker 1 thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you.

Speaker 2 I love you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 You're welcome. And I love you.
I love you for taking the time to listen to something that will help you come alive. And thank you for sharing this with everybody in your life that you care about.

Speaker 1 Everybody needs a little Phil Cook in their life.

Speaker 1 And it's my honor to have introduced you to him. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 In case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

Speaker 1 And I promise you, tapping into

Speaker 1 this creative force within you, learning how to exhale-holy cow, is that going to make your life better?

Speaker 2 All righty, I will see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play to welcome you in.

Speaker 2 I'll see you there.

Speaker 1 Because I always have to have diarrhea of the mouth totally.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And so the dyslexic etiquette on Mel is take the last thing she sent and stick in the cell.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 I think we'll be very similar this whole realm.

Speaker 4 Do you need anything else?

Speaker 1 Any, you got your water.

Speaker 2 Got my water.

Speaker 1 I brought all my accoutrements.

Speaker 1 When I was 15, I spent a month working on an archaeological dig. I was talking to one of the archaeological.
Oh, my God. See, I can't say the word, whatever.

Speaker 1 I was talking to, you know, Mark Twain once said it takes a simple mind to spell a word one way mel robbins says it takes a simple mind to say a word just one way see i'm being creative i'm just letting it flow you did that i'm lowering the stakes let's be real here shedding expectations that was real well first of all i'm gonna take my worry widdle my worry wood my my my worry stick okay it's called a worry stick i'm gonna take my phil's worried worry stick i'm gonna stick it in my pocket and then i'm gonna go out to my favorite place This is so good.

Speaker 2 Sounds juicy.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God, Phil. I love you so much.

Speaker 1 Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

Speaker 1 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

Speaker 1 I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

Speaker 1 I'll see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 Serious Axe them podcasts.

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