Before You Waste Another Year of Your Life, Get Serious About Healing Your Past

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Speaker 17 Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to a very profound episode of the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 11 Welcome.

Speaker 17 I'm Mel Robbins.

Speaker 14 I'm a New York Times best-selling author and one of the world's leading experts on change, motivation, and habits.

Speaker 17 And I am really proud to share this conversation with you today.

Speaker 17 When I sit here and think about what you're about to experience, I can honestly tell you, this is one of the deepest conversations I've ever had with someone that I recorded.

Speaker 17 And so I'm glad that my guests today agreed to let me share this conversation with you. because I want you to experience this.
I want you to be a part of this conversation.

Speaker 17 So many of you write to me from around the world every single day about how you feel discouraged because you're starting to realize that you deserve more. And that means that there's work to do.

Speaker 17 There's work that you need to do in order to face and heal your past, to create better habits, and to experience more happiness and love in your life.

Speaker 12 Well, my guest today,

Speaker 17 he has put his head down and he has done the work in his own life.

Speaker 17 Ultimately, the episode today is about learning how to heal, how to be less reactive, calmer, clearer, more confident, and how happiness and that power inside of you will flow back into your life when you do that kind of work.

Speaker 17 And I am talking to someone today who has impacted the lives of hundreds of millions of people. None other than New York Times best-selling author, Lewis Howes.

Speaker 17 You may know Lewis because he is the host of the award-winning podcast, The School of Greatness, which just celebrated its 10-year anniversary with over 500 million downloads.

Speaker 11 That's pretty incredible.

Speaker 17 And I'm absolutely thrilled that today we're going to dig into Lewis's healing journey.

Speaker 17 And we're also going to cover his latest book, The Greatness Mindset, which is a playbook based on what he's learned after 10 years of interviewing the brightest minds and biggest brains in sports, business, and entertainment.

Speaker 14 Now, I do want to give you just a little bit of a warning.

Speaker 17 There is a lot of intimate and deeply personal topics that we cover.

Speaker 17 So if you're someone who's in a very sensitive place in your life today, maybe you bookmark this and you come back to it when you got your sweats on and a mug of tea.

Speaker 17 And if you got little ones running around, please be mindful of the little ears when, you know, Lewis shares about his own past. and about men and trauma in particular.

Speaker 17 It's unlike anything you may have heard before, particularly heard a man talking about.

Speaker 17 Now, I can't wait for this conversation. So let's go.

Speaker 17 Louis,

Speaker 17 I am so glad that you're here.

Speaker 19 Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 17 What is your definition of greatness?

Speaker 19 For me, it's

Speaker 19 going on a journey to discover your unique gifts and talents. And in that discovery, figuring out what your dreams are.

Speaker 19 And on the path of going after your dreams, making the maximum impact on the people around you. For me, that's greatness.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 17 So obviously your book is a roadmap to that, but can you just talk to somebody who's like, yeah, how do you tap into that knowing that you are meant for greatness, especially when the shit has hit the fan fan and your life feels like a disaster.

Speaker 19 I'm very grateful that I had a voice inside of me that was keeping me going. And a lot of times when I was in elementary school, I used to say, I wish I was dead a lot.

Speaker 19 I would get in trouble, get sent to the principal's office, and I would say, I wish I was dead. I wish I were dead.
I wish I were dead. And I don't know if any of you can relate to that feeling.

Speaker 19 I didn't never felt suicidal, like I actually was going to do it, but I remember saying, essentially, why am I here?

Speaker 19 Am I enough? Am I lovable? Will I ever matter? That was like a thing that was just a constant theme inside of me. But there was a voice that was also like, just keep going.

Speaker 19 You know, it was like, you got this, just keep going. So I'm really grateful that I was able to hear that voice, even though I was so distracted and the

Speaker 19 loudness of insecurity was crippling my mind.

Speaker 19 It was so loud and so overwhelming that it felt like I was drowning emotionally. And so if someone feels that way now,

Speaker 19 what I would say is two things.

Speaker 19 Number one, like hold on to whatever voice that says, even if it's like a second a day, that's like keep going, like hold on to that voice because that is the thing that has allowed me to overcome so much.

Speaker 19 And I wish I would have learned sooner what I talk about in the book, which is allowing myself to heal all the memories and pain from the past.

Speaker 19 And it really wasn't until I started that process 10 years ago of healing past memories where things started to unlock, where I started to feel free internally.

Speaker 19 And then externally, the things that I was accumulating or creating or developing was more meaningful because I was successful, I was accomplishing, accumulating, but it didn't feel enough because I didn't feel enough.

Speaker 19 I didn't feel like I was worthy of receiving. I didn't feel like I was deserving of love because I didn't accept me.

Speaker 19 And it really wasn't until the last two years when I went even deeper into healing that I was like, I'm going to create a loving relationship with any shame or guilt or insecurity that I once had

Speaker 19 and just have a new relationship with it. It doesn't mean it wasn't painful.
It doesn't mean I wish things didn't happen.

Speaker 19 It doesn't mean I didn't do things I'm ashamed of, but creating a new relationship with it so it doesn't hurt me today.

Speaker 19 And those two things of listening to the kind of voice inside of me telling me to keep going and being on a journey of healing has given me such a sense of emotional freedom and peace that I never felt in my life.

Speaker 19 And it allows me to not abandon myself anymore. And I think for many years, I would abandon myself to fit in, to belong, to be accepted.

Speaker 19 And the more I would do that, I would feel shameful because I was doing things that I knew weren't in alignment with who I was or my highest self was. And so once I started to heal, I could

Speaker 19 stop abandoning myself, create barriers or boundaries in my emotions or in my life

Speaker 19 so that I could stay in peace and be okay with disturbing things around me

Speaker 19 by standing my ground in certain situations. And that has been the biggest gift I've given myself because it has allowed me.

Speaker 19 Someone was asking me on the phone when I was driving here, it was like, how did this book come about? I go, I had the idea for it for years, but I didn't have inner peace.

Speaker 19 I didn't have the energy to create it. And once I got clear on my inner peace, like this just came out.
And I'm already like just creating so much because I have clarity.

Speaker 19 And it wasn't until I was able to get full clarity and ownership of accepting who I am

Speaker 19 where I was able to start doing these things authentically. So it's been a journey.

Speaker 17 There is so much to unpack. in what you just said.
And I'm so happy you went deep.

Speaker 17 You remind me in many ways of somebody I love more than anybody else in the world. And that's my husband, Chris.

Speaker 17 And one of the things that I love about you is you're this big, masculine, super successful, professional athlete dude. And

Speaker 17 yet there's this incredible quiet softness, strength, and vulnerability to you.

Speaker 17 And you often say a lot without saying much.

Speaker 19 Thanks. Appreciate it.
I think it's interesting that you say that because I didn't feel like I had a lot to say when I was growing up because I felt very insecure in school.

Speaker 19 So I was always in the bottom of my grade all the way through middle school, high school. And then it took me seven years to finish college and graduate.

Speaker 19 And in middle school, high school, I would be in the special needs classes. And a lot of times during recess, I would have to do extra tutoring.

Speaker 19 So when other kids were playing or having fun, or I'd have to do a short lunch break and then go right into reading class because in eighth grade, I had a second grade reading level.

Speaker 19 So it was just very challenging for me to read a page of any book and comprehend it. It was just, it would take a long time to read it.

Speaker 19 And then by the time I'd finish it, it was almost like it was so long that I don't remember what I was reading that I'd have to go back and read the page over and over again.

Speaker 19 So I would get through a couple pages in what would seem like 30 to 45 minutes. And I would just be tired and like, I don't have the focus.
That's why I started using my energy in sports.

Speaker 19 And when I asked to speak aloud in class, specifically in high school, I just felt insecure because I knew I wasn't the smartest.

Speaker 19 I knew I was always in the bottom of my class because they used to rank us on our grade cards. So I would always be in the bottom four.

Speaker 19 And a lot of times I cheated my way through quizzes and tests and homework to just pass to stay like not the bottom one, right? Yeah. So I just felt very unsure of myself.

Speaker 17 I mean, when you talk about the 500 million downloads of the award-winning podcast, The School of Greatness, which is one of the top podcasts in the world, I'd say that's not bad for the bottom four of your

Speaker 19 middle school.

Speaker 17 It's one of the reasons why I love your story,

Speaker 17 because you had to figure out how to be successful in a world that was telling you that you weren't. And it starts on the couch.

Speaker 19 This was...

Speaker 19 September 2007.

Speaker 19 I hadn't graduated yet. I left to go play arena football.
I tried to make the NFL, didn't make it. So I played an arena football for a season to try to get more practice to then go to the NFL.

Speaker 19 For my rookie season, I get injured. I dive for a football into the wall.
It's indoor football. So imagine a hockey rink football.
That's what it was. So I dove,

Speaker 19 I snap my wrist like in the wall. Okay.
So I just played through the pain.

Speaker 19 And at the end, the surgeon was like, every catch, every block, it was just like grinding the bone and disintegrating the bone in my wrist.

Speaker 19 And so that's why he said, we have to take a bone out of your hip. That hurt more than the wrist surgery.
And so I'm like, I'm going to heal. I'm going to be fine.

Speaker 19 My ego is so big that I'm like, I feel like I'm a superhuman. And then every six weeks, I do a checkup with the doctor, thinking I'm going to be fine.
Right.

Speaker 19 And they keep saying, another six weeks, another six weeks, another six weeks. What was supposed to be three months turns into six months with a cast on.

Speaker 19 So it takes about a year and a half just to like rehab my arm. So I went through a phase of like sadness, denial, depression.
I don't know, but depression, but it was just like extreme sadness. Yeah.

Speaker 19 Okay. This identity that I had when I originally thought like I am

Speaker 17 going to be a professional athlete.

Speaker 19 Yeah. I'm like, nothing can hurt me.
I realized quickly, oh, things can hurt me and they can take away from my dreams.

Speaker 19 And right before this, my dad gets in an accident where he has a traumatic brain injury from a car accident. They have to airlift him out of the car.

Speaker 19 I mean, he's in a coma for three months after months in a coma in a hospital.

Speaker 19 He was physically alive, but emotionally dead.

Speaker 19 So he wasn't able to really communicate. He was my dad, but I couldn't have a conversation with him.

Speaker 19 I'd see him and he'd say, what's your name again?

Speaker 19 What sport did you used to play?

Speaker 19 Where'd you go to school again? That was the conversation every time I'd visit my dad. And he was at every football game.
He was my biggest fan. And he loved to see me succeed.

Speaker 19 It's like he was gone. He was physically there, but he wasn't my dad anymore.

Speaker 19 So I'm on my sister's couch for a year and a half in this phase of sadness about my dad, sadness about my identity, my injury.

Speaker 19 It's also 2008 was like a, it kind of felt like 2020 with the economic crisis.

Speaker 19 I don't have a college degree yet. I'm trying to figure out how to get my degree and finish it while I'll get a job, but no one's hiring people without degrees at that time.

Speaker 19 So it was just kind of like, what am I doing in this world? Why are these things happening?

Speaker 17 Yeah. And I think I just want to say that

Speaker 17 there's a lot of times in life where

Speaker 17 things happen and you feel like that, whether your marriage didn't work out and you never expected to be divorced, or you go all in on a business and it goes bankrupt, or you end up struggling with an addiction after surgery and painkillers.

Speaker 17 And so I think this moment is really important for us to unpack. And so I want to have you read a part of your book.

Speaker 17 So that highlighted section, I'd love for you to read because it takes us right back to the moment of what you were feeling. when you were on that couch.

Speaker 19 I feel like all I could do during those dark days days was flip through TV reruns and infomercials with the remote as I felt my chance at greatness not just slipping away, but sprinting as fast as it could go.

Speaker 19 I didn't know what to think, how to feel, or how to process my own emotions. And on top of that, I hadn't even finished college at the time.

Speaker 19 I was financially, physically, emotionally, and spiritually broken. I wondered what to do next.
And from my perspective,

Speaker 19 I was now very much alone. But I knew this couldn't be how the story of my life went.
I knew there had to be more to my story.

Speaker 19 There had to be greatness inside of me, but I didn't know where or how to get started. Yet deep down, I knew I would eventually figure it all out.

Speaker 17 Thank you so much for sharing that. We got to take a short break for our sponsors, and we're going to continue this when we come back.

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Speaker 17 Welcome back. It's Mel, and I'm here with New York Times best-selling author Lewis Howes.
He's a very close friend of mine. He's also the host of the the School of Greatness podcast.

Speaker 17 And we are talking about healing. So Lewis, it's been a journey from being the 23-year-old lost former professional football

Speaker 17 person

Speaker 17 to really realizing that chasing success got you so far,

Speaker 17 but you had to fix what felt broken on the inside. 100%.

Speaker 19 Yeah. And, you know, as a growing up, I wanted success.
The thought of success was like the answer. Right.

Speaker 19 And that was maybe, I don't know why that came about, but it was always about how to be successful. Yep.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 I achieved success on my terms, but I didn't feel fulfilled. Yep.
And I didn't feel like it was enough.

Speaker 19 So then I would have to achieve more and more and more to fill something up where I didn't feel enough.

Speaker 19 And I think there's a difference between success and greatness, where success is more selfish about me and greatness is about we.

Speaker 19 It's going after your goals and dreams, but making it about impacting others in the process and them being celebrated and them accomplishing as well or improving as well.

Speaker 19 And it's much more rewarding that way. So I feel like I want to create more, but I'm also happy with where I'm at.
And there's a sense of peace.

Speaker 19 It's like, yes, I'm always going to be striving for more, at least in this season of life. Maybe when I'm 90, I'm just like, okay, I don't want more.
I want less. And that'll be a different season.

Speaker 19 But for now, I want more and I'm also just peaceful with where I am because I accept who I am. And I didn't know that that was the game, accepting yourself.

Speaker 19 It's accepting, but also saying you still get to improve. You still get to grow.
You still get to transform, but also accepting and loving where you're at.

Speaker 17 Okay, so let me unpack this a little bit because I think there's so much wisdom that you just dropped. If you're sitting here going, but, but, but, but, but, but, hold on a second.

Speaker 17 I don't even know how we went from 23-year-old broke, like on the sister's couch, lost for a year and a half, dad having this, to now all of a sudden, this crazy, successful business and podcast and millions of like, how did he do that?

Speaker 17 And wait a minute, Lewis Howes, are you telling me this inner piece bullshit? Like, I need to pay my bills. Like, don't be talking to me about that.
And so I want to say a couple things.

Speaker 17 Yes, we will get to the story of how he went from the couch to building what he built. But there's something much bigger.

Speaker 17 in terms of the master class that is being offered to you in this moment, where Lewis is going to save you two decades or whatever of pain that he put himself through to get to the wisdom and the greatness that he has unlocked in himself.

Speaker 17 Because I've known Lewis for five years. He is a different human being,

Speaker 17 a different human being than even just a year ago.

Speaker 17 And I think that it is possible, and Lewis will tell you this, to be a competitive motherfucker and to compete at the highest levels, which he does.

Speaker 19 Yeah. I still like to win.
Hell yes. But it's a a win-win.
You know, it's a different type of win.

Speaker 17 And to be a calm,

Speaker 19 cool,

Speaker 17 and confident person

Speaker 17 because you have peace with yourself. Yeah.
As you are doing those things.

Speaker 19 And even just to comment on what you said about paying bills, I don't think you can have financial peace unless you have inner peace.

Speaker 19 Because there's so many people that you know that have lots of money who are overly stressed. Right.

Speaker 19 And more money doesn't always solve every problem.

Speaker 19 It solves lots of problems, but it doesn't always solve the problem of accepting and loving yourself.

Speaker 17 That's true.

Speaker 17 And I'm going to add something to that because both Lewis and I have been in moments of our life, and ironically, it was during 2007 and 2008, where neither one of us were able to buy groceries.

Speaker 17 We did not have any savings. We did not have any income.
We were relying on other people to help us get through.

Speaker 17 And the stress that you feel when you cannot pay for your basic needs is a toxic level of stress that can consume you.

Speaker 17 But what I also want you to consider is the added stress and shame and mental beatdown that you add on top of that reality doesn't help you pay your bills either.

Speaker 19 100%.

Speaker 17 And so whether you are at a point where you've been wildly successful, but you're deeply unhappy, Or you're at a point where you're having trouble paying your bills, cultivating a sense of peace inside yourself, an assuredness that you can rely on yourself, a steadiness so that the world around you does not trip you up emotionally, that that is a superpower.

Speaker 17 That's part of this greatness mindset that you're talking about. And Lewis has been on this profound healing journey.
And so

Speaker 17 I want to go there.

Speaker 19 The game is healing.

Speaker 14 The game is healing.

Speaker 19 The game is healing in order to,

Speaker 19 you know, create anything in my mind.

Speaker 17 What does healing even mean, Lewis?

Speaker 19 I used to feel a lot of pain in my chest or tightness in my throat or disturbance in my stomach.

Speaker 19 I used to feel like I couldn't sleep at night because I was up for an hour and a half, like ruminating and thinking and stressed. I used to be very reactive when my nervous system was triggered.
Yep.

Speaker 19 I feel like that's... That's the opposite of healing.
You know, healing is learning how to overcome all those things so your nervous system is in peace when there's chaos around you.

Speaker 19 It doesn't mean I'm not going to feel triggered momentarily or feel like, oh, I don't like that or react to a thing or feel disturbed, but it's learning how to recognize it much faster.

Speaker 19 And from a place of integrating healing and lessons, be able to respond differently when there's a disturbance as opposed to based on a wound.

Speaker 19 So most of my life, I was just reacting, responding based on wounds that I was unaware of. Or maybe I was aware of them, but I was was just like, this is who I am.
Don't mess with me.

Speaker 17 Oh, how many of us have heard that?

Speaker 19 Yeah, this is, don't try to change me. Don't mess with me.
Like, this is who I am. I'm fine.
Right. You know, there's nothing wrong with me.
Like this like reaction.

Speaker 17 Can you give people a sense of some of the things that needed healing? So I'm going to just point out one of them. You and I both have dyslexia.
Yours is more profound than mine.

Speaker 19 Even reading my own words, I trip up sometimes because I still have to practice like reading slowly and with a cadence.

Speaker 17 So what was that like for me to pass the book to you?

Speaker 19 I I was even going to say it. I was like, you know, this is like, I get to practice my insecurities all the time.
I have to read on a teleprompter all the time.

Speaker 19 And I'm always like, just take a deep breath and know that I just know that I'm not going to be the best reader in the world. And that's okay.

Speaker 19 And so I just say, you know, I accept myself when I stutter. I accept myself when I stumble.

Speaker 19 I accept myself when I have to redo a sentence over and over again because I wasn't able to see what's coming next and it just didn't sound right.

Speaker 19 It probably takes me twice as long to read my audiobook as you Do, right?

Speaker 19 And I, I, but I used to hate myself for that and beat myself up. And now I accept and love myself.
And when I do that, I notice I read a lot better and I flow a lot better.

Speaker 19 And it's them, you know, it's not perfect or anything, but I'm like,

Speaker 19 it's just I save a lot more time. I'm more relaxed.
And as opposed to I used to, to beat myself up and be the biggest critic, now I'm just a positive self-coach in those moments.

Speaker 19 It was like, oh, you got this. It's okay.
You know, you'll be able to.

Speaker 17 Can we unpack that for a minute? Because I think it's a really relatable example.

Speaker 17 So, every one of us has something that we're self-conscious about or that we beat ourselves up about, whether it's our weight or something about our skin or our hair or our height.

Speaker 17 Or, you know, for you, you mentioned stuttering and stumbling and reading out loud or being slower at something.

Speaker 17 And you so beautifully talked about how you used to just

Speaker 17 beat the hell out of yourself. You hated that about yourself.
How do you, or how did you, Lewis,

Speaker 17 learn to accept something you hated? How do you fucking do that?

Speaker 19 There's many different modalities of

Speaker 19 healing. Right.
And I, and I feel like over the last 10 years, I was telling your husband, Chris, about this, I was like, because he was asking me about all these different things. Right.

Speaker 19 And I was like, I feel like I've tried lots of different stuff because I got a lot of work to do.

Speaker 19 So I'm willing to dive in and like take a look in the mirror and say, tell me what to do and I'll try it.

Speaker 19 And I did workshops, emotional intelligence leadership training workshops 10 10 years ago that helped me unlock and open up about sexual trauma. That was kind of stage one.

Speaker 19 It was one of my biggest shames that I didn't want to talk about. I didn't want anyone to know about because if anyone knew that I'd been sexually abused, I thought no one would ever love me.

Speaker 19 So it was a huge

Speaker 19 protection that I was a shield that I was putting up on myself

Speaker 19 to

Speaker 19 show people that I was strong, to show people that I was confident, to show people that I was, that no one could mess with me in sports or whatever it might be.

Speaker 19 And that, that supported me in accomplishing certain results, but hurt me and feeling loved and harmony and alignment within myself.

Speaker 19 And so it was exhausting. It's draining.
It's an emotional train wreck because you're kind of living a double life. Inside, you know the truth.
Outside, others don't know the truth about you.

Speaker 19 So you're hiding something.

Speaker 17 And you know, I want to point something out about this because we've been doing a whole series on trauma and nervous system repair.

Speaker 17 And you talked earlier about how your lived experience, even though you're super successful on the outside, is like not in the stomach, tightness in the chest, something in the throat.

Speaker 17 You don't even have to be conscious. about the fact that you're hiding this thing.
It's not like you're walking around thinking about the fact that you were a victim of sexual abuse.

Speaker 17 It's that it's stored in your body. So your body operates in a state all the time as if something bad's about to happen.

Speaker 19 I wasn't even like aware that I wasn't telling people. I was just like, you know, trying to block it and cover it up constantly.
But it was always in my mind. Like

Speaker 19 maybe every few days, the memory would come up in some way. It was just like a movie that was repeating on a repeat.

Speaker 19 And when I did this first workshop, a lot of things started to happen in my life where I was having breakdowns, intimate relationship, business partnership, just life.

Speaker 19 I just felt like, man, stuff is breaking down all around me. Although I'm successful, why are all these things breaking down? I'm the common denominator.

Speaker 19 I actually got in a fight on a basketball court. This was kind of the tipping point where I was the perfect storm.

Speaker 19 And a friend of mine who was there was like, I don't want to hang out with you anymore if you're going to keep reacting in this way. Because I was the same fun-loving guy.

Speaker 19 But when I would get triggered, I was like, this reaction would come out of me.

Speaker 17 Like you get like super physical, like a linebacker.

Speaker 19 I just like to try to defend myself energetically. But if someone was physically trying to attack me, which in a basketball game is kind of a, you know, isn't that part of the game?

Speaker 19 Yes, but I would take it so personally. So when it was a cheap elbow, I'd be like, turn around and be like, let's go, let's fight.

Speaker 19 So I didn't have the filter because I felt like someone was always trying to abuse me or take advantage of me. Exactly.
And so this was kind of the last thing that happened. I got in this fight.

Speaker 19 My friend was like, hey, I don't want to hang out with you. I don't want to play basketball anymore with you if you're going to react like this.

Speaker 19 And it was a tendency that was happening for many months more and more until this like fist fight.

Speaker 17 Fist fight?

Speaker 19 Fist fight.

Speaker 17 On a basketball court?

Speaker 19 On a pickup basketball court. Yeah, there was no stakes on the line.
It was just like a friendly game in the mean streets of Beverly Hills. Yeah.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 how old were you? I was 10 years ago. Yeah.
So how old are you now? I'm 39. 39.
So when you're 29 years old. And I remember there was a police station right across the street.

Speaker 19 It was in West Hollywood. It was 10 minutes away from here.
And

Speaker 19 I remember seeing the guy's face when it was done and being really scared of what I'd done.

Speaker 19 Meaning,

Speaker 19 his face didn't look good. I'll just say that.
And he, and I always had this rule that I'll never hit someone unless they hit me first. That was kind of like my thing.

Speaker 19 But I'll freaking get in someone's face. I'll talk trash, whatever.
But I was like, I'll never hit someone unless they hit me first.

Speaker 19 He ended up headbutting me because we were like kind of in each other's faces and he headbutts me. And then I kind of just go blank and I and I turn into like the incredible Hulk.
Yeah.

Speaker 19 In that moment, like this guy hit me. There's no rules.
And

Speaker 19 afterwards, I had so much adrenaline because I don't think I'd gotten in an actual fight since I was like 13. Right.
So

Speaker 19 I played football to get my aggression out, but then no, I no longer was able to hit people legally. Right.

Speaker 19 And so this was a point where this happened. And I remember going home and looking at myself in the mirror and being like, who are you? I did not recognize myself.

Speaker 19 And I was really kind of like shaking because I was like, like, what am I doing? Like, who am I? What are you, why are you reacting? I always started to like ask myself this question.

Speaker 19 And I remember thinking, like, I have too much to lose now to allow my anger, my fears, my wounds to be in control.

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 19 Because I had built a business and I was like, what if someone, I don't know, what if someone had a knife or a gun or whatever, like, or I injured myself in a worse way or I hurt someone else?

Speaker 19 Like, what if something really bad happened? He was ended up fine. We were fine, but I remember thinking, oh, okay, this could really get out of control.
And this was nothing.

Speaker 19 This was like a little incident. And I was so reactive.
So that's what got me down the path of saying, Let me take a look in the mirror. I asked some friends for some suggestions on what I could do.

Speaker 19 I went to some workshops. The first workshop I went to got me to a vulnerable enough state to talk about sexual abuse for the first time.
Out loud?

Speaker 7 Out loud.

Speaker 19 First time I spoke the words. What was that like?

Speaker 19 The most terrifying moment of my life, to be honest, because I never thought that this had happened to any other man.

Speaker 19 So you have to imagine if you think that what has happened to you has never happened to anyone else, then you think you are wrong, broken, and the worst human being alive.

Speaker 19 Now, that just was my interpretation, right?

Speaker 19 And I got to a place. during this workshop where

Speaker 19 it was a five-day experience and a lot of people were going through about it's it's a leadership workshop, but we have to go into our past and mend things to get clear on what we want for the future and then move towards the future, right?

Speaker 19 So it's kind of like a process, a journey of your personal life to help you have more tools of leadership.

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 19 And at one point during this workshop, people are open up about different stuff. It was a vulnerable state at this time, but it was like after the third day.

Speaker 19 The trainer goes, okay, we've gone into these different past experiences, parents and this and that and breakups. We're not talking about the past anymore.
We're moving on.

Speaker 19 We're going into what you want to create for the future. Like we're done.
We're moving forward.

Speaker 19 But if there's anything you haven't shared, now is the time. Like if there are anything you haven't shared from the past, now is the time, or we're moving on and you're going to miss your moment.

Speaker 19 For whatever reason, that voice came back out and was like, okay, and during this time, I started to address all these different things from my childhood. My parents, you know,

Speaker 19 they they probably should have never been married in the first place, but they went through a divorce eventually and just kind of the fear of their arguments and fights as a young child.

Speaker 19 That was stressful. My brother went to prison when I was eight for four and a half years.
So I didn't have friends for four and a half years because in a small town,

Speaker 19 you know, the moms wouldn't let their kids hang out with me. So that was just a lonely time.

Speaker 19 And it was traumatic to go to a prison every weekend and watch your brother in a room full of convicts and their families. It was a traumatic experience for the whole family.

Speaker 19 You know, being picked on in school and special needs classes and all these different things, breakups, heartbreak. I was like, okay, I've already addressed this stuff.
I feel fine here.

Speaker 19 But what about this thing that I've been thinking about almost every day for 25 years?

Speaker 19 And whatever inside of me just said, you have to stand up. And I remember just like standing up and getting out of my seat and walking to the front of the room.

Speaker 19 And there's probably, I don't know, 30, 40 people in the room. We're kind of like in a semicircle.
And I stand up. And this was interesting because I couldn't look anyone in the eyes.
I stood up.

Speaker 19 I like looked down at the carpet, went in front of the room, and just said, when I was five, I was sexually abused by the babysitter's son. And I went through the entire story of the entire event.

Speaker 19 It was almost like I was in the bathroom again, reliving it. And I shared this, but I could not look up because I was so ashamed of what I was saying.

Speaker 19 And I was just thinking to myself, man, everyone's laughing at me. Everyone's like,

Speaker 19 you know, thinking I'm a loser. Everyone thinking I'm unlovable.
All these things came up for me. And I was like,

Speaker 19 my life is over. Essentially what I was thinking.
And I remember sharing this, staring down, like walked through the whole thing.

Speaker 19 And somehow I was like semi-calm. I was like standing there, just maybe because I wasn't looking at anyone's eyes, but I was pretty calm and able to just get through it.
I wasn't crying or anything.

Speaker 19 I was just getting through it. And then I went and sat down.

Speaker 19 And there was two women sitting on either side of me when i sat down and i remember just looking at one of them and she's like weeping and the other one is like holding me they're crying now it's like 25 years of pain just kind of erupts and i start crying and

Speaker 19 they're holding me they're all kind of like jumping and shaking like you know they're crying uncontrollably and i'm just like i have to leave so i run out of the room it was in kind of a conference room of like a hotel run out of the hotel to get some fresh air.

Speaker 19 And I'm in the back alley behind this hotel by LAX. And there's a wall.
I kind of just put my hand against the wall and I'm just like sobbing.

Speaker 19 And a few minutes later, I feel a touch on the back of my shoulder. And it's this guy who's bigger than me.
He's probably in his late 50s. And he turns me around.
He's crying. He looks me in my eyes.

Speaker 19 He says, you're my hero.

Speaker 19 You're my hero. I will follow you anywhere.
I vividly remember this. He goes, I have three kids.
I've been married for 20 something years.

Speaker 19 My wife doesn't know. My kids don't know.
This happened to me when I was 11.

Speaker 19 This happened to me multiple times. And I've lived with shame and doubt and insecurities my whole life.

Speaker 19 Thank you for being the first person to open up in front of me. You're going to give me the courage now to go and tell my wife.
Wow.

Speaker 19 All these men from the room started coming out.

Speaker 19 There was only two or three guys who had been sexually abused that that told me that for the first time, by the way, they hadn't opened up either to anyone in their lives.

Speaker 19 And then other guys were just like, I've never heard anything like this.

Speaker 19 This happened to me. I feel really insecure about this in my life or this thing I'm ashamed of, right?

Speaker 19 And it was so powerful because I was thinking all these, everyone's going to make fun of me. But in fact, it made them trust me and respect me more and love me more.

Speaker 19 The thing that was the scariest thing for me was actually the thing that brought me closer to people

Speaker 19 and people could actually see me for the first time fully, at least in that regard.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 that was the start of 10 years of lots of different healing modalities, which I'm happy to talk about some of them, but

Speaker 19 that was the start of processing the healing. The next step is integrating the healing, which is where all the work is.

Speaker 17 Yeah, that's true. I want to just say that this is yet another one of those areas where you and I have a parallel path.

Speaker 17 Because I had a very similar thing happen to me when I was in the fourth grade and I buried it.

Speaker 17 And I knew in the back of my mind, somewhere in the back of my mind, that something had happened. And it wasn't until I was at a leadership seminar.

Speaker 19 Really? That was in the

Speaker 19 personal.

Speaker 17 No, well, what happened is somebody else shared. And they shared about how

Speaker 17 they had been molested and they had forgiven their parents and forgiven the babysitter, but they couldn't forgive their sister because while this was happening to them in the bathroom, similar to their story, their sister was watching TV.

Speaker 17 And as she said that, I had a very vivid memory of the moment that it happened to me in the middle of the night.

Speaker 17 And when I kind of rolled over because I, you know, was scared that this person was on top of me, the first person I saw was my brother. Because he was sleeping on the bunk bed, like right across.

Speaker 17 And I thought, I don't want this person to hurt him so i was just like quiet like a mouse but it was the sibling connection and it like you just flooded in and i was like i gotta share this and for a minute

Speaker 17 i questioned whether or not it happened

Speaker 17 and it was it a bad dream or was it a reality or was did i block it was it real yeah yes but that voice that knowing that flood of emotion made me like you say,

Speaker 17 I just have to say it out loud.

Speaker 19 And what happened when you said it out loud?

Speaker 17 Oh, I just collapsed sobbing. Same thing as you.
Like so many people come up. I mean, it is such, unfortunately, a very common story.

Speaker 17 One in four women, one in six men have experienced something like that, but it's in the either the denying that it's real and questioning it or the

Speaker 17 shame that you feel around it as if somehow it's your fault. or it somehow is damaging to you and carrying that inside, which

Speaker 17 really is damaging. And so I think that it's an important

Speaker 17 thank you, first of all, for sharing that story.

Speaker 19 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 17 And I think speaking the things

Speaker 17 that you hate or are ashamed of is a form of acceptance.

Speaker 17 Because if you keep this stuff silent, if you're unwilling to talk about it, it's going to continue to haunt you.

Speaker 17 So Lewis, I want to just hit the pause button for a second so we can hear from our sponsors and let's pick up this topic when we come back.

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Speaker 17 Welcome back. It's Mel and I'm here with one of my very close friends, New York Times best-selling author Lewis Howes, who's also the host of the School of Greatness podcast.

Speaker 17 And you know, you've been on this incredible journey of healing. What has it taught you about greatness?

Speaker 19 You can't be great without having peace and without going on a healing journey, in my mind. You can accomplish a lot.
You can achieve a lot. You can get a lot of awards and make a lot of money.

Speaker 19 But I feel like if you feel like you don't still aren't enough, then you're not great. I don't think.

Speaker 17 Because it's the enough, the thing that you're chasing is outside of you.

Speaker 19 It is outside of you. And again, I was chasing them.
to feel better about myself, to feel like, okay, I matter and I have value because I didn't believe I had value. And I think

Speaker 19 once you believe you have value, then you're creating from a space of love

Speaker 19 and win-win and service as opposed to I need to do this for me and look good and fill something up inside of me. You're doing it from a more healing journey place, and then you're able to give more.

Speaker 19 You're able to create in a better place. So a lot of my life was doing things to prove people wrong that I felt abused, abandoned, made fun of by.

Speaker 19 It's like, well, let me me go make, create, succeed to prove people wrong.

Speaker 19 So when I would lose, I was a bad loser because I was like, oh, I didn't prove them wrong. I lost.
They were right.

Speaker 19 And so it was just a different energy of creation, the fuel of anger and not enoughness. You can go non-stop for years trying to prove your enoughness from that state, but it is exhausting energy.

Speaker 19 It's draining.

Speaker 19 So many times I accomplish things in sports, biggest dreams after 10 and 15 years of thinking about them, working hard and accomplishing it and feeling like so angry after I accomplished it because I thought I would feel something different and I still didn't feel good enough.

Speaker 19 So I was like, I need to go create more and accomplish more. And then I would do it.
And I was like, why am I still feeling alone inside?

Speaker 19 It's because I didn't have a good relationship with me internally. And once I started to shift that, I just feel such a good sense of peace.

Speaker 19 And because I have a meaningful mission that is not about about me, it's about others as well. That's the foundation.
It's like getting clear on a meaningful mission. How do you do that?

Speaker 17 I mean, I mean, you've got, you've got the framework in here, but

Speaker 17 I'm thinking, Lewis, about the person.

Speaker 19 It depends on the season of your life. And again, if you are trying to pay your bills, you can't think about a meaningful mission.

Speaker 19 You got to think about protecting yourself, safety, and getting to a place of

Speaker 19 mission, right? And that is a meaningful mission for this season, right? So when I was on my sister's couch, that's all I could think about.

Speaker 19 It was like, how can I make enough money to get off the couch? Great. And so that was the mission for that season.

Speaker 19 But once you complete that, you got to think about something bigger that includes others, right?

Speaker 19 And so I was still including others in that by adding value to people in order to get money from them, right? Essentially, I'm going to give you a service.

Speaker 19 I'm going to help you and you're going to pay me. Right.
So I'm helping them overcome a problem. And I was using my passion and my power to solve a problem.
And that's what I started to do.

Speaker 19 And then I started to,

Speaker 17 once i overcame that mission or accomplished it i was like okay now i can see a little bit farther now what do i want to create and same thing happened with the school of greatness once hold on i just wanted for to tell everybody so lewis basically in looking for a job figured out how linkedin worked exactly and then realized oh whoa i can teach other people how to use linkedin like a pro and so he became wildly successful being an expert on monetizing and utilizing linkedin and one platform.

Speaker 17 And tell everybody how you came up with the School for Greatness idea.

Speaker 19 So after, I don't know, four or five years of kind of teaching LinkedIn and then expanding it into just social media and marketing in general and courses and stuff like that, I realized, okay, I had enough money for maybe two years to live.

Speaker 17 Oh, that's pretty damn good, Lewis.

Speaker 19 When you're broke and poor,

Speaker 19 at least from my point of view,

Speaker 19 the holy grail. When you're broke and poor, from my point of view, I didn't spend anything.
I was like, I just need to stack everything because I was in scarcity mode. Yep.

Speaker 19 So I wasn't like spending anything. So I had enough.

Speaker 17 And I also didn't have a car.

Speaker 19 You know, I was living in like an apartment that was like $495 a month. I was like living in the lowest amount I could.
I was like taking trains places, not like flying anywhere.

Speaker 19 I was like, how can I say this?

Speaker 17 This is Lewis the squirrel.

Speaker 19 Yes, I was.

Speaker 17 Gordon, his nuts, man.

Speaker 19 Here we go. That's right.
Put him in my back pocket.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 once I realized, oh, I can actually like, I'm surviving now, right? I'm thriving. I'm surviving.
I got out of this kind of like scarcity mentality.

Speaker 19 I was able to think beyond that. I was able to think beyond this like need to like just make money really quickly.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 I realized I didn't want this anymore. This season of life, I was like, I don't want to do what I was doing in this business anymore.
So I sold it to a business partner that I had.

Speaker 19 And I was like, okay, I've got about two years of cash if I don't make any money to survive.

Speaker 19 This is the exact moment when I got into the fight in in the basketball court. I was going through a breakup in a relationship that I moved to LA for, and I was just having breakdowns in life.

Speaker 19 And so I was literally stuck in traffic in LA a little over 10 years ago. Tuesday next week is my 10-year anniversary for my podcast.

Speaker 17 No way.

Speaker 19 Tuesday next week. So a little over 10 years ago,

Speaker 19 10 years and three months ago, I'm stuck in LA traffic. All this stuff had just happened.
And I'm just thinking to myself, man,

Speaker 19 I don't have it all figured out. I thought I did, I thought my ego knew it was right.

Speaker 19 Yeah, I thought I, you know, accomplished stuff and this and that, and was featuring the White House, and all these other things. I was like, Man, I should be the man, but I feel like a loser.

Speaker 19 And I was stuck in LA traffic, we were literally on the 405,

Speaker 19 and um, we were not moving, and all these people around me in cars stopped, were screaming, and honking, and flipping each other off,

Speaker 19 and I'm honking, and I'm like, Man, I'm stuck, we're stuck, Everyone's stuck. And I was just like, okay,

Speaker 19 huh. If people are stuck in traffic and they're taking them so long to get places, what if I could offer value and solve a problem for them to get unstuck? This was literally what I was going through.

Speaker 19 And I was like, I need the solution myself.

Speaker 19 And I just started hearing about podcasting. This was 2012.
I just started to hear like, just whispers, you know, whispers, podcasts,

Speaker 19 what is this thing? Right.

Speaker 19 And I was like, I literally called two friends in the car. It was a long drive.
Things stuck. I called two friends.
I go, I know you have a podcast. Tell me about the podcasting thing.

Speaker 19 And they were like, I love it. It's the coolest thing ever.
The audience I'm connecting, the building, the relationship, it's the best thing ever. I don't make any money, but it's the best thing ever.

Speaker 19 And I was like, okay, cool.

Speaker 19 And I was like, man, I think I could do this because I had started to just interview people for myself, recording it for me, like business leaders and sports athletes and all these people for years leading up to that.

Speaker 19 That's how I got in kind of the LinkedIn space. I would network with people.
I'd interview them.

Speaker 19 And I just was like, man, I've learned so much from these people, which got me here in my business results. So let me take it a step farther.

Speaker 19 And they were both telling me like, well, you should just make it about like marketing and entrepreneurship because that's what you're doing. Right.
I was like, it just doesn't resonate with me.

Speaker 19 I feel like I'm supposed to do something more. They're like, well, don't go too broad because it probably won't work.
Oh, you mean like greatness? Yeah. And I was like, and

Speaker 19 who are you? You're still just like getting started. You're like an internet marketer.
You don't have a big audience. Like, you can't go too broad.

Speaker 17 You just beat somebody up on a basketball court.

Speaker 19 I mean, come on. You're breaking down everywhere in your life.
And I was just like, again, that voice kept saying, I just feel like this is what I want to step into, though.

Speaker 19 And even if it fails, I'm going to make it an experiment. I'm going to do it for one year, one episode a week for a year, and just see if I like it.

Speaker 19 So I discovered the mission by exploring something, by being curious and trying it.

Speaker 19 And I gave myself some parameters. I'm not going to try to make money.
Again, at that time, I had money for two years. Gotcha.

Speaker 19 So some people may not have that luxury when they're figuring this out in terms of making money. You might have to make money really quickly.
If I needed to make money, I could have.

Speaker 17 Well, you also don't have to go all in. Exactly.
What I loved about what you said, did you hear what Lewis said? Experiment. He gave himself permission to experiment with something for a year.

Speaker 17 Number two, he took the pressure off and said, I'm not going to make this experiment generate generate money.

Speaker 17 And so if you can, whether you're on the couch or you're working a job, if you can give yourself the grace of an experiment and take the pressure off of money, you now are walking in the footsteps of greatness here.

Speaker 17 And so you set out on this experiment and you didn't know shit about how to do it.

Speaker 19 You have two friends that. I had an iPhone that I used to record in the beginning.
I had no clue what I was doing. I was, you know,

Speaker 19 I was trying to do what I thought I was supposed to do. I was just like trying stuff.
And my, it's funny because my assistant listened to the first episode like last week.

Speaker 19 She goes, I went back and listened to the first episode. She goes, you're a completely different person.
And I'm like, because it was more about success, right?

Speaker 19 It was more about like achievement and winning and like results.

Speaker 17 Oh, I have to go back and listen. I was like, you, Lewis.

Speaker 19 Then after, then I went to this workshop a few months later. Oh, the one where you spoke for the first time about sexual abuse and all these things.
And I actually, this is so funny.

Speaker 19 I actually learned the concept about you don't win unless everyone wins around you. You know, that was like, what? That concept didn't make sense to me as an athlete.

Speaker 19 I was like, no, there was one winner. Everyone else must lose.
Otherwise, you're the loser, right? That was kind of like the mentality that was, I was trained with. Right.

Speaker 19 It was the programming that I was conditioned to have. And this workshop taught me that you don't win unless everyone wins.

Speaker 17 You embody that, dude.

Speaker 19 And it's about, and thank you. And it's about, it doesn't mean,

Speaker 19 you know, winning could look differently for everyone around you, but there must be like a win-win experience.

Speaker 19 Otherwise, your win doesn't mean as much if others aren't improving and growing and succeeding in whatever it is they're doing as well, right?

Speaker 19 It doesn't mean it has to be equal winning or something like that.

Speaker 19 And that's why I was like, yeah, that's right. This, this podcast can't be about like results.
It should be about elevating others. and about improvement and how we can all win together.

Speaker 19 And that's when it started to shift. And I started to like be a little softer and be less like, let's just get results, you know? And

Speaker 19 it was beautiful. So there's so much that happened in that first year of the experiment where I started to like try something and it wasn't perfect the first hundred times.

Speaker 19 I just said, how can I make it better every time? How can I listen to the feedback and make it better every time?

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 how can I find my voice in this process? You know, even if I'm not comfortable sharing my voice, how do I find it by practicing it?

Speaker 19 And after the first year, I I remember

Speaker 19 being like, man, I just really loved this and enjoyed it. And so 10 years later, here we are.
I still love it, still enjoy it.

Speaker 17 When you think back on literally probably thousands of people that you've interviewed, what's one interview that you

Speaker 17 reflect on the most?

Speaker 19 I was going to say Kobe because he was my favorite interview. But when you said this,

Speaker 19 there was an interview the first year that I had with a guy guy named Chris Lee, who is the actual coach and trainer of the workshop I went to when I opened up for the first time.

Speaker 19 He had such a massive impact on me from that experience that I ended up hiring him as a coach for a couple of years just to like coach me personally.

Speaker 19 And I had him come on the show. I was single at the time.
I go, how do you find the dream like partner? And he put me through a guided meditation where he had me close my eyes.

Speaker 19 And he like walked me through a scenario and a scene of my future self. He said, I want you to imagine waking up next to this person.
I want you to imagine what they look like, what they sound like.

Speaker 19 I want you to imagine what you, when you open the windows, where you are in the world, what your view is. I want you to imagine the feeling, the experience you're having with this person.

Speaker 19 And the reason I'm talking about that is because

Speaker 19 I said to myself during that, my eyes were closed. I was like,

Speaker 19 I don't know if this is weird or not, but I was like, I wake up next to the woman of my dreams.

Speaker 19 And when I open my eyes, she looks at me and she's smiling at me every morning. And I remember just saying that.
I don't know why that came to me, but I was like,

Speaker 19 she looks at me. She's smiling at me because she's so grateful and happy that we're in this relationship together.

Speaker 19 And essentially eight years later, I'm in a relationship with a person that wakes up, that literally opens her eyes and looks at me and smiles. And this is no joke.
It happens every day.

Speaker 19 She looks at me. She hugs me.
Some days she wakes up crying. I'm not kidding, because she's just a grateful human being, not just because of like, I'm in her life, but she's just a happy person.

Speaker 19 And I dreamt of this. And so for me, that was a powerful,

Speaker 19 powerful episode because.

Speaker 19 I had two other relationships before her and after this conversation.

Speaker 19 Those things didn't happen. And I realized that it only happened the moment I started to fully heal a lot of the emotional things that I still wasn't ready to face in intimacy.

Speaker 19 So I healed one element, but not all the other elements.

Speaker 19 And it wasn't until I

Speaker 19 literally, there was a pain in my chest for still for years from other things, not the sexual abuse pain, because I could talk about that freely and be at peace, but in other things that I still wasn't willing to face.

Speaker 19 And it wasn't until I faced those things two years ago, there was a pain in my chest for many years that would come and go.

Speaker 19 It disintegrated after about five months of intensive therapy, integration, healing.

Speaker 19 It finally disintegrated in my chest, and I felt this ball of pain go throughout my body into like complete freedom. And it hasn't come back since.
Wow.

Speaker 19 It took five months of intense reflection, exercises, practicing of healing the nervous system to where that went away.

Speaker 19 That is literally a month or two later, I met her.

Speaker 19 Wow. And it's been a game changer ever since.

Speaker 17 Have you talked publicly about what that thing was that you faced?

Speaker 19 I just started, I haven't really talked about it publicly. I just started kind of telling people that, because I don't know if other people feel a pain in their chest.

Speaker 19 I don't know if you've ever felt like a ball that's kind of like this, not palpitations, but just kind of a nagging pain.

Speaker 17 I feel it more kind of like right above the stomach. Yeah.
That's sort of where my, and I know when it's coming because it hits the ankles first and then this clenches. Yep.

Speaker 19 Like wobbly legs or something?

Speaker 17 No, like I feel literally the, when I get triggered, I literally feel it

Speaker 17 and it comes to your stomach. Yeah, but I think you want to know why.
It's because that's how the person approaches.

Speaker 19 Oh, wow. Yes.

Speaker 19 Yeah. I, because it was used to be the throat and the chest for me.
I used to feel like I couldn't speak. Yeah.
And there was like a pain here. And I was like,

Speaker 19 it wasn't like I felt like I was on a heart attack or anything like that, but it's just like a nagging pain. Yeah.
It would come and go.

Speaker 19 And I couldn't figure out how to get rid of it or how to like eliminate it.

Speaker 19 And it just, I went to five months of intensive every week therapy, sometimes five, six hours on Saturdays, where I was just like, I'm a maniac on a mission to create peace, clarity, and freedom.

Speaker 19 The first day I stepped into therapy with my coach, I call her an emotional coach because I think we should all have one.

Speaker 19 She said, what's your intention for starting this process? I said, I want peace, clarity, and freedom.

Speaker 19 Cause I didn't feel like I had any of those. It was my inability to not abandon myself.

Speaker 17 What does that mean for somebody who's never heard that term?

Speaker 19 So it was my inability to not abandon myself in intimacy with one person, the person that I was choosing to be in a committed relationship with. Because I wouldn't abandon myself in other areas.

Speaker 19 I would stand up for those like, no, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 17 Oh, for you, like a nice guy doormat type in relationships?

Speaker 19 I was more trying to buy peace. So whenever my relationship, what

Speaker 19 relationships in the past would be upset at me, you didn't do this. I'm sorry.
Okay. I'll go do it now.

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 19 Whenever there was disturbance emotionally

Speaker 19 or the environment or they were screaming at me or they were cold shoulder or they wouldn't speak to me.

Speaker 19 I was like, I don't like this feeling. And so I didn't know how to navigate my inner world when that would happen.
I didn't know how to be peaceful. under chaos emotionally.

Speaker 19 So I would do things to buy peace. I would say, okay, I'll stop doing this.

Speaker 19 Even though I don't want to stop doing something, I'll stop doing it to make you feel comfortable. Yeah.
Okay, I'll give in here. Okay, I'll come home five hours early.

Speaker 19 Okay, I won't go on that trip because you don't feel comfortable with me going alone. See, I don't think people

Speaker 17 understand how much men struggle with this. That, that, no, I mean it.
Like you're, this is why I said you remind me a tremendous amount in ways of Chris.

Speaker 17 Same thing, like just would shut down

Speaker 17 and or give in or give in and not capable of expressing what he needed because his experience as a kid was it didn't matter anyway.

Speaker 19 Exactly. And a lot of men were never trained on how to navigate uncomfortable emotions through

Speaker 19 their highest selves. They would defend, protect, and show that everything's okay.

Speaker 19 I

Speaker 19 didn't have the tools, the training, the knowledge, the experience, the wisdom on how to navigate stressful emotions in love, in an intimate, loving relationship.

Speaker 19 I could do it in business and sports and all the things.

Speaker 17 Was it modeled for you?

Speaker 19 Was it modeled for your life? Yeah, it was constant. It was a constant low-level stress and like resentment from my parents of each other, which made me always like, ah, what's going to happen, right?

Speaker 19 But they loved me and I knew they loved me, but it was, I knew they also didn't love each other. And so that was stressful.

Speaker 19 And so I didn't know how to, how to be with a woman who was like, you can't do this, screaming at me, don't do this. I don't like when you do this.
This is is not okay. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 19 Because what they are saying is, you're not enough. And I don't accept you for who you are, Lewis.

Speaker 19 So I didn't accept myself for who I was.

Speaker 19 I knew I wasn't enough. That's how I thought.
So I said, I'm going to do what's going to make her feel like I'm enough for her. Right.

Speaker 19 And after a year, two years, three years of doing that and just giving in and giving in and giving in, you fully lose yourself. Yes.
You lose all your, you lose who you are.

Speaker 19 Then you get resentful, you get frustrated, you get angry. So I lacked the emotional ability to say no.

Speaker 19 And if you don't love me and accept me and you want to walk away, that's okay.

Speaker 19 And I lacked the emotional ability to

Speaker 19 just be okay with me walking away from something as well. And that's why when I met Martha, which you've met her a couple of times now.

Speaker 17 She smiles at you all the time.

Speaker 19 I had a fully different experience. Because you were different.
Because I was completely different. And

Speaker 19 I just told her like straight up, I was like, this is my values. This is who I am.
And I'm never going to abandon myself for anyone.

Speaker 19 You, this, that, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm just never going to abandon myself.

Speaker 19 It doesn't mean I'm not going to be a flexible human being and supportive in all these other ways, but I'm not going to give up who I am to please one human being because they're not happy with me.

Speaker 17 Dude, if you could sum up the greatness mindset, I think you just did. There is this quote that goes viral all the time.
I have no idea who said it first, but it's that thing that when you

Speaker 17 put all your energy into trying to keep the peace with others, you create a war inside yourself. That's good.
That is just what you described.

Speaker 17 That tension in your chest, and so many of you listening listen with it, or that pit in your stomach is the war that Lewis just described with yourself because you're so much more focused and concerned with keeping the peace, making sure everybody else is okay.

Speaker 17 And until you invert that

Speaker 17 and you focus on creating peace within yourself, that's it right there.

Speaker 19 And this is the moment when it unlocks. I remember now exactly what happens when this, the pain went away, because I was working on, because I didn't feel free.
Right.

Speaker 19 And so for five months of therapy going in every week, I was committed. I was like, I'm going to figure this out.
And I'll go as long as it takes.

Speaker 17 You're like a truffle pig for healing, man. He's going to root that thing out right there.

Speaker 19 I'm doing it, man.

Speaker 17 I'm not going to stop until I'm healed. I love that about you.

Speaker 19 I remember,

Speaker 19 and healing is a journey. It's not an event that happens overnight.
There's an unlocking. There's an awareness moment.

Speaker 17 So what was that moment?

Speaker 19 So the moment was many, because every time I would meet my coach, she'd say, what's your intention? Peace, clarity, freedom. I didn't feel them.

Speaker 19 And so we were talking about which each one is. When do you do not feel peace? When do you not feel clear, freedom? I was like, I've never felt free in my life.

Speaker 19 And a lot of it came down to modeling parents. They weren't free in their relationship.
They both were resentful of being in the relationship. They both got married when they're 19.

Speaker 19 They didn't know any better. They had four kids.
They were working their butts off, just staying together.

Speaker 19 So I don't blame them, but they stayed together, not because they wanted to, because they didn't know how to, how to navigate it as well. And so I saw them trapped.
That was what it was for me.

Speaker 19 I saw them trapped and I was afraid to be trapped because I didn't want to repeat the feeling of them being trapped and feeling miserable a lot of the time.

Speaker 19 And I was like, I don't want to create that in my life, but I didn't know how to stand up for myself. So that was the thing.
And she just kept looking at me.

Speaker 19 It was kind of like a goodwill hunting moment. She was like, you're not trapped.
You're not trapped. You're not trapped.
You're a free man. You're a free man.
You're a free man.

Speaker 19 And I don't know what it was. It was just like all the months of like the practicing, the integrating, the opening it back up, where it just kind of like this like rush.

Speaker 19 It like finally connected to me that I am a free man, that I am not trapped. She was like, You can walk away at any moment.
You can walk away at any moment.

Speaker 19 You don't have to keep working in this relationship. Like,

Speaker 19 especially since you're not married, you can walk away at any moment.

Speaker 17 But even if you are married,

Speaker 19 you can walk away. And that was the thing.

Speaker 19 I was like, I'm so afraid to get married because I don't want to have the shame of getting divorced or the pain that caught that happens after divorce that so many people go through.

Speaker 17 Well, it's so interesting. You were so focused on not

Speaker 17 feeling trapped that you actually trapped yourself.

Speaker 19 100%. And it's so funny because I went to a prison almost every week for four and a half years and I watched men who were trapped behind bars.
But some of them were emotionally free.

Speaker 19 Some of them were there, but I saw them free men. Like they were in a state of complete peace.
Not all of them, but some of them had so much love in their hearts, were very kind and generous.

Speaker 19 They had their families around and they were free emotionally, but they just did something that put them in there physically.

Speaker 19 And I realized for so long that I was trapped emotionally, but free physically, and I didn't know how to break free.

Speaker 19 And that was the thing where I was like, I'm just sick and tired of feeling this pain.

Speaker 19 I'm sick and tired of repeating the pattern where I'm the common denominator in all these relationships, choosing them, staying in them, and not standing up for myself.

Speaker 19 So that was a massive game changer for me was investing in emotional coaching, showing up consistently when I didn't want to, and doing the work.

Speaker 19 And I think a lot of us will get business coaches, career coaches, health coaches, but the emotional game is the game that most of us don't know how to master.

Speaker 19 And yet we won't invest in coaching or find support. And I just think it's so crucial.

Speaker 17 Well, you write at the very end of your fantastic book, The Greatness Mindset. You're talking about unlock the power of your mind and live your best life today.

Speaker 17 You have a huge section in this on healing.

Speaker 19 A whole section is healing. I feel like you cannot be great.
It's a a huge section. I feel like you can't be great unless you heal.

Speaker 17 The book is healing. Like, I feel like it's not even unlock the power of your mind.
It's literally unlock the power of your mind, body, and spirit, integrated all.

Speaker 19 Oh, you know, everything's a Trojan horse.

Speaker 19 You got to bring people together.

Speaker 17 Nobody's going to pick up the healing book. So they're like, I'm going to buy the mindset book.

Speaker 17 But guys, if people understood the art of falling in love with yourself, the world would be a much better place. Lewis, the world is a much better place because you're in it.
Thank you, Mel.

Speaker 17 So first of all, everybody, please go get the book. I'm not done asking Lewis questions, but please, please, please support the man that has supported all of our greatness for the last 10 years.

Speaker 17 You will love this, and it's the greatness mindset. And so, I wanted to close by just saying, I want you to imagine that it's your last day on earth

Speaker 17 and you can only leave the world with three truths, three lessons that you want to impart on the world.

Speaker 17 What are they, Lewis?

Speaker 19 You are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Speaker 19 If we understood that and embodied it and truly believed it,

Speaker 19 then life is just a much better place.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 17 And you embody it, that's for damn sure.

Speaker 19 Thank you.

Speaker 17 You're welcome. Thank you for being a part of my life.

Speaker 19 Thank you. Appreciate you.

Speaker 13 Oh, man.

Speaker 17 Well, and you know, before I go, I just want to make sure that you hear Lewis and I tell you something, which is, in case nobody else in your life tells you this today, I want to tell you that I love you.

Speaker 17 And I know, Lewis, you probably want to say the same thing.

Speaker 19 100%, yeah. I love you.

Speaker 17 And I believe in you and your ability to take absolutely everything you heard today

Speaker 17 from Lewis and put it into practice in your own life.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 17 not only develop the greatness mindset, but to go heal and to learn how to fall in love with yourself and use that transformation to change the world around you.

Speaker 19 I love you, Lewis. Love you too.
Appreciate it, Mel. Thanks.

Speaker 17 Oh, one more thing.

Speaker 6 It's the legal language.

Speaker 2 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

Speaker 11 It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Speaker 24 Stitcher.

Speaker 25 My uncontrollable movements, cold TD, tartive dyskinesia, felt embarrassing. I felt like disconnecting.

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