Why Am I So Triggered? 3 Steps to Control Your Emotions & Rewire Your Response to Stress

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 You're not going to believe the episode today. You better buckle up.
You might even want to hit pause and grab a pen and a piece of paper. This is Take Away Central.

Speaker 1 What you're going to learn in today's episode, after you meet the expert that I'm going to talk to, wow, it's going to make you a better person because you're going to get tools that will help you repair the kind of crap that went down in your childhood that you don't even realize is impacting you as an adult.

Speaker 1 Who do I have on the show today? None other than Dr. Becky Kennedy.
Dr. Becky Kennedy is the brand new number one New York Times best-selling author of Good Inside.

Speaker 1 She says, no matter what's going on in your life, there is good inside of you. And today we are going to give you the tools and the simple scripts to help you access it.
Dr.

Speaker 1 Becky is a clinical psychologist with a PhD from Columbia. She is blowing up online.
She was deemed the millennial parenting whisperer by Time magazine.

Speaker 1 And here's the thing, this is not a conversation about parenting. This is a conversation for everybody.
Because even if you're not a parent right now, you are once a child.

Speaker 1 And you're about to learn how things that you don't even remember are impacting you as an adult and keeping you stuck and unhappy.

Speaker 1 Well, today on the Mel Robbins podcast, we're going to fix that with tools and advice that you need to create a better life. So let's get into it.
Dr. Becky.
Here we are. Here we are.
Congratulations.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 How you feeling?

Speaker 2 I feel really energized. I really do.
I love these ideas. I love hearing people's stories.
And on the book tour, I've gotten to talk about ideas and hear people's stories.

Speaker 2 So it's been pretty fantastic.

Speaker 1 Amazing. So I devour your content online, and I know that you're a parenting expert, but every single post, I get something as an adult.

Speaker 1 And there are two things that I get from every post that you have. One is that I

Speaker 1 see

Speaker 1 reasons why

Speaker 1 I feel the way that I feel as an adult. because you're talking about experiences that children have.

Speaker 1 And then I also go, oh my God, I am clearly fucking up my children right now. Or and it's too late because they're 23, 22, and 17.

Speaker 2 Well, I want to jump in on that second point.

Speaker 2 So my biggest hope is that people, yes, see good inside kind of, yeah, as an initiation into a mode of parenting that is as much about self-development as it is about child development.

Speaker 2 And my second hope is that they see it as empowering, not

Speaker 2 anxiety-inducing, like I messed up my kids. So we're going to, we're going to, we're going to fix number two and get you, get you back to the empowering place.

Speaker 1 Fantastic. So I want to go to a particular part of your

Speaker 1 number one New York Times best-selling book, Good Inside.

Speaker 1 Page one, you talk about how when you were in your clinical psychology PhD program at Columbia, you were doing play therapy with kids, but you were also counseling adult clients.

Speaker 1 And I read this sentence where you wrote, I became fascinated by an undeniable connection with the adults.

Speaker 1 It was so clear where in childhood things went awry, where a child's needs weren't met, or behaviors were a cry for help that was never answered. And what I want to focus on with you today

Speaker 1 is how we can learn more about ourselves now that we're adults based on what you have come to understand

Speaker 1 as a clinical psychologist that is giving parenting advice to millions and millions of people around the world.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you for that. And yeah, it was this really interesting set of years.
And it continued after my PhD program and my practice where I'd see kids and then I'd see adults.

Speaker 2 And in the adults, the work really, you know, I think is rewiring work. So everyone came to my practice saying different things.

Speaker 2 They struggled with anxiety or they were reactive or they felt bad about themselves. They had imposter syndrome.
They were depressed. Whatever the problem was was different.

Speaker 2 But I actually think everyone's core struggle was the same.

Speaker 1 What is it?

Speaker 2 Which was that

Speaker 2 I learned to adapt in my early years so I could thrive as much as possible in my earliest environment. And I created wiring that allowed me to do that.
And that was incredibly crafty and important.

Speaker 2 And yet the things that I wired early that were adaptive back then are now the things that are holding me back. But it's really hard to shift patterns that were put in place to protect me.

Speaker 2 So I'm stuck and can you help? No, no one said that. But I think that's what actually what everyone's story said.

Speaker 1 Now, when you say early,

Speaker 1 childhood years. Yes.

Speaker 1 What age are you talking about?

Speaker 2 So, and this is where as parents or non-parents listening, we can all take a deep breath and just remember a truth that I think is a really important double truth.

Speaker 2 The body, the brain wires early. And it is never too late to rewire.
So they're equally true.

Speaker 2 So if we jump into the specifics there, I'd ask everyone first to consider something that is both so obvious, but I always find it very powerful.

Speaker 2 Your body today is the exact same body you were born with.

Speaker 1 Wait, what?

Speaker 2 Right. Like your body, my body, has lived all of my experiences from the time I was a baby, right? We never get a new body.
And so my experiences in my life.

Speaker 1 Can I ask a question about that though first? Because don't you, because I like, I've heard all this stuff like your cells regenerate every seven years.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I've grown obviously from a blob that laid around when I was an infant to now a five foot eight, 54 year old adult.

Speaker 1 So what do you mean when you say your body right now is the same body that you had when you were born?

Speaker 2 I think, yes, a lot of things have changed. Our house, like it's, it's our house.
We live in it.

Speaker 2 And so the things that happened when we were three months, when we were nine months, when we were three, things that you just said, Mel, it's true.

Speaker 2 We don't remember when we use a very limited definition of memory. And I always find this interesting.

Speaker 2 We have a very limited understanding colloquially of memory that it's the things that I can tell someone happen to me.

Speaker 2 But the only things we can ever tell someone happen to me are the things that other people help me form a coherent story about.

Speaker 2 And so that's actually a pretty limited amount of memory, given that the hardest things in our childhood were probably the things we were left alone with and nobody helped us understand.

Speaker 1 And we didn't even understand.

Speaker 2 Exactly. We didn't understand because we need adults when we're young to make meaning out of all of our confusing experiences that our body registers.

Speaker 1 Can I give you a specific example that you might be able to help us unpack

Speaker 1 as context for what you're talking about? So just last night, I was at LAX and we were going to fly to New York City, right?

Speaker 1 And I went up to ask about the flight status and a woman came running up and she said, there is somebody screaming at a baby in the, in the bathroom.

Speaker 1 She's screaming at the baby and the baby is so little.

Speaker 1 And I immediately tensed up

Speaker 1 and the woman at the desk started to dismiss her. Well, is the baby okay? I don't know, but you shouldn't talk to a baby like that.
Why do you scream at a baby?

Speaker 1 Like just the woman was in such distress over what she had heard

Speaker 1 from the tone of the mom screaming to the, to the like, why would you be screaming at a nine-month-old so loud it's coming through a bathroom door? And then she turned and the mom

Speaker 1 kind of rushed back out to where her partner was and handed her baby to the partner and was all flustered.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 can you in that moment explain what was probably getting absorbed by the baby, by the baby's mother, by the woman who heard it, by me hearing it?

Speaker 1 That one moment was so triggering for me and clearly that other woman.

Speaker 1 But explain all of that as it relates to memory and as it relates to experience and as it relates to kind of how we get re-triggered.

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.
So I should first say the body doesn't only kind of wire developed circuitry from one experience.

Speaker 2 But let's just say for the sake of this example that this baby and mother, this was one of many times when the baby is distressed, the mother struggles to tolerate that distress and ends up adding their own distress and dysregulation rather than a soothing element.

Speaker 2 So I'm just going to make that assumption just for the sake of this discussion. So here's what's happening in a baby's body.

Speaker 2 Their emotional world inside is on fire. Something is very upsetting.
And with a nine-month-old, you don't know what it is. Maybe their diaper is dirty.
Maybe they're hungry. Maybe they have some tag.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's they're noticing unfamiliar surroundings. They don't know how to express it except for for in this total cry and dysregulation.

Speaker 2 So the baby's body registers, I am very overwhelmed and upset right now. I always think of like a marble run.
That's like the first part of the marble run. And then

Speaker 2 how a baby's body ends up getting wired. What happens next is a baby will encode how their caregivers responded to them.
in that moment.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 first comes distress. So, their body learns, okay, I get distressed.
As we all know, guess what? We all get distressed. That just happens.

Speaker 2 After distress comes more distress and anger and a threat to attachment and fear. So, now a baby wires fear and additional dysregulation next to their dysregulation.

Speaker 2 And again, let's say this was part of a larger pattern. And babies, yes, they pick up on kind of the message: my parent is as scared of my overwhelm state as I am.

Speaker 2 When I get overwhelmed, I push people away. When I get overwhelmed, I overwhelm other people.
When I get overwhelmed, my closest relationships actually become threatened, right?

Speaker 2 So if we fast forward, and again, this is not one time, many times, right? Here's what doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 30-year-old doesn't say, I'm upset. And wow, I did get yelled at a couple times when I was a baby in the Delta lounge, but that was then.
And this is now.

Speaker 2 And I have a feeling my partner will respond differently. So I'm just going to go to them and say, I'm upset.
No, because again, that was never even explained to them. There's no coherence.

Speaker 2 It's just a body's memory of when I get upset. I actually develop a warning sign.
Oh, you better put that away. Oh, you're going to threaten other people's attachment.
This is going to make it worse.

Speaker 2 It's going to be a tornado. It's going to be an abyss.
And then maybe even have a partner who's like, you seem like you're having an upsetting day.

Speaker 2 And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, all good, all good. And then, probably, as we know, I act it out in some other way.

Speaker 2 I pull away, or I drink alcohol, or I do different things because what I've learned is I can't connect to other people with my distress.

Speaker 2 I don't expect the people who are close to me to help me get soothing. So I better figure out what I can do now to shut down this experience to preserve feeling safe in the world.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 How the, I mean, I, there's so much to unpack here. There's because you don't even remember experiences probably five and under, right?

Speaker 2 And this is, I think, this is one of the most empowering things to think about. We don't remember with our words and our stories, but we remember with our body.

Speaker 2 So let me like here, I always think about this couple. They saw me a while ago in my private practice, and it was the dad who actually sought, you know, kind of this parent coaching work.

Speaker 2 And he said, whenever my kid has a tantrum, like I know the things. I know it's normal.
I know they have the feelings. They don't have the skills.
I have to teach them the skills.

Speaker 2 It's not the feelings that are the problem. It's the lack of skills.
I know the whole thing. But when my kid has a tantrum, that knowledge is just out the door.
And I yell. I say awful things.

Speaker 2 I say things I promised myself I would never say as a parent. And so one of the things.

Speaker 2 I like to do when I'm working with parents is we can't just say, okay, try this, because you can only try a strategy if your body is in a grounded place to be able to access that strategy.

Speaker 1 Is that why it's easy to talk about tools and therapy, but when you get into the situation where your kids are driving you crazy, you start screaming and you forget the strategies?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's why so many parenting approaches, I think, kind of set parents up to feel bad because they're like, try this, try this. That's great.

Speaker 2 And I always think if we learn those strategies, they kind of live behind a door.

Speaker 2 But if we aren't doing the work on ourselves to be able to be in the place to open that door, then they're just locked behind the door because we're triggered, right?

Speaker 2 So this dad, I remember saying to him, tell me a little bit. how your parents responded to your tantrums and your big emotions as a kid.
And he's like,

Speaker 2 I have no idea.

Speaker 2 I have no memory of that. And I found this interesting because what I said to him, I go, I know how your parents responded.
It's interesting you say you've no memory. Your mind doesn't remember.

Speaker 2 Your body is acting out that memory every time your kid has a tantrum.

Speaker 2 Your body, the way it reacts to so harshly shut down my kid's tantrum. He's like, what's wrong with you? You're crazy.
You're making a big deal out of nothing. You're being ridiculous.

Speaker 2 Why don't you act like your sister? Like he'd say all these things. And he's like, I don't know how people responded to my big emotions.
Dr.

Speaker 1 Becky, I was just sitting here thinking, I don't know how they responded.

Speaker 2 Our triggers are stories from our past.

Speaker 1 Everybody, did you hear that?

Speaker 2 I'm going to say it again. Our triggers are stories from our past acting themselves out in our present.

Speaker 2 And this is why when people say, what about all the types of therapy that like don't really care about the past or why do we have to talk about our past? I'm a pure pragmatist at heart.

Speaker 2 We have to talk about the past to understand it so it doesn't take over the driver's seat in our present life. That stinks when your past lives itself out.

Speaker 1 Can I ask another question? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because I

Speaker 1 have heard a bazillion times, and I talk about it. I've studied it about how the body keeps the score, the body remembers, you feel things before your thoughts can explain them.

Speaker 1 But the way that you just talked about memory, something clicked. And the fact that my lived experience is also

Speaker 1 I don't remember. And I also have this hyper drive, Dr.
Becky, to go, oh, it was great.

Speaker 1 I don't remember anybody yelling at me. I don't remember like anything like that at all.
And yet,

Speaker 1 the thing that I hate about myself as a parent is that when I get frustrated, I vomit on my kids. I just snap.

Speaker 1 And their moments of high stress cause me to be like,

Speaker 1 right at them. And then I quickly apologize.
I quickly am like, I'm sorry. It's a bad, it's not an excuse that I'm stressed out right now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 is it normal to not remember what your parents did when you were like emotional?

Speaker 2 A hundred percent. So it's normal to not remember in this one version of memory that we all kind of accept as the whole truth.
right? So, going back to our body, so

Speaker 2 a kid gets yelled at. They're three.
They get yelled at. Like, we all know.
Like, by the way, I yell my kids too. And I'm going to yell at my kids later today.
Like, we all do it, right? I'm stressed.

Speaker 2 It's not them. We don't respond to our kids.
We respond to the circuit in our own body that gets activated when we witness things in our kids.

Speaker 1 Okay, everybody, I want you to hear that. You're not responding to your kids or your dog or your colleagues or your spouse.

Speaker 1 you're responding to something in your body that gets activated in that situation.

Speaker 2 Exactly. So, my kids, let's say, with this dad, he's like, this kid is having a tantrum, right? And an example was like a classic four-year-old tantrum.

Speaker 2 Um, you know, I cut the grilled cheese in half instead of leaving it whole, or I cut it in half as triangles instead of dare you, you know, how dare you, you horrible parent, right?

Speaker 2 And, and by the way, for the kid, that's also a trigger moment for them. They obviously were filled up with frustration, and that was just the spillover point.
But I see this thing in my kid.

Speaker 2 Then my body does this inside. What do I know

Speaker 2 about overwhelming, kind of extreme displays of emotion? And my body kind of scans its circuits. And

Speaker 2 if I've learned in my own past, oh, no, no, no, no, no, that is so dangerous. That would get you sent to your room, which is fear of abandonment.
That would get you called a spoiled brat.

Speaker 2 That would get you those, and I know this from doing it as a parent, that would get you those dart eyes that just say everything we need to say.

Speaker 1 The mind's a tone shift, right? They're like, you are a horrible person, right?

Speaker 2 Which kids are like, oh no, this is literally dangerous. Kids need us to survive.
They need us to get food, shelter, and water.

Speaker 2 So they pick up on what feelings and parts of them are allowed and what feelings and parts of them are threatening. And they adjust accordingly.

Speaker 2 So if I had to learn in my childhood, oh yeah, those big displays of emotion, even if I don't remember with my, you know, language, yeah, that would never have been allowed.

Speaker 2 Then my body scans itself when I have a tantrum that I'm witnessing for my kid. And then here's actually the most, I really think the most compassionate and game-changing part.

Speaker 2 It's not okay that I yell at my kid, definitely not. And yet, my body is essentially saying, oh, I'm trying to help my kid.
I'm like, no, shut that down. That is so dangerous.

Speaker 2 Now, I'm still living in 1975 when it was dangerous for me, right? But my body is actually trying

Speaker 2 to help the situation.

Speaker 1 So let me see see if I can understand that.

Speaker 1 So if you are an adult now and your child is upset that you did not cut it the sandwich into fours in triangles, which I completely understand.

Speaker 1 We were sort of the like sticks with no crust at our house. How dare you do anything else? And

Speaker 1 Your child starts to get overwhelmed and stressed. It then triggers this stored experience for you.
So you are still in your 1976 body.

Speaker 1 Are you now just repeating what you saw the adults do?

Speaker 2 In a way, so I'm extremely inspired by internal family systems and Dick Schwartz's way of understanding the mind and our body. And what he really explains so well is

Speaker 2 when we have an experience as a kid, and many, not one, where we essentially learn this part of me, the part that gets overwhelmed and doesn't yet have the skills to manage those overwhelmed feelings.

Speaker 2 So they just explode out as a volcano.

Speaker 2 If that part is really what I would say is non-conducive with attachment, I don't get, it's not like I need my parent to say tantrum away, but I don't get presence. I don't get compassion.

Speaker 2 I just get yelled at. I need to develop, okay, and stay with me here, a different part of myself that shuts down that part.
So I literally develop a different part.

Speaker 2 It's like, Becky, you ungrateful kid, you are too much. Stop doing this.
And that's actually called in IFS language, a protector part.

Speaker 2 It sounds mean, but I think we all understand like its function early on is to protect me.

Speaker 2 Because at least if I do that to myself and almost shame myself, at least then I don't get the wrath of my parent, or I don't get sent to my room, I don't get hit, or I don't get this awful punishment.

Speaker 2 And so it's helping me adapt. And so it's helping me shut down.

Speaker 1 A part of you. A part of me.

Speaker 2 Now, fast forward to 2022.

Speaker 2 What a trigger really is, and by the way, not only with our kids, with a partner, with anyone at work, is I think we see a part of someone that we had to learn to shut down harshly in ourself.

Speaker 2 And then that protector part in us, it really does. It comes to like the CEO seat of the board table.
It's like, I got this, guys. Like, I got this.
Right. And then our kid or our coworker,

Speaker 2 they kind of become like a pawn in our game. We, we, we act out on them what we had to learn to act on ourselves.
Right. And the most empowering shift, okay,

Speaker 2 is we often, when things trigger us, we look to shut down someone else and kind of make them more like us. I would never have this explosive emotion, or I would never, you know, with like a whine.

Speaker 2 Why is whining so triggering? To me, it just represents like helplessness. And I grew up in a pull-up your bootstraps family and I would never be a puddle of girl panties is my family.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Then if you really want to work on your triggers, the question we have to ask ourselves is not, how can I I make this person like me?

Speaker 2 But what am I seeing in someone else that I need to be inspired by, that I need to actually grow that part in myself?

Speaker 1 Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but Dr. Becky, I want you to walk us through some triggers and how to handle them when we come back.

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Speaker 1 So let's walk through some triggers.

Speaker 1 So let's take... You were talking about whining.
Yep. Which is a cry for help.

Speaker 1 So what is the part? So when you go, so what is the exercise we go through

Speaker 1 for ourselves as adults to let these moments that are triggering us

Speaker 1 become a moment to repair things or rewire things? Or what word would you use?

Speaker 2 Great. Both of those, right? So because the truth is with our trigger moments, we often think, yeah, I have to repair with my kid.
I don't like that I yelled at them.

Speaker 2 But what you're on to, Mel, which is so true, is first we have to repair with ourselves. Yes.
We have to do both. Right.

Speaker 2 So probably my most popular workshop I do, shockingly, is called My Triggers Workshop. So it's 75 minutes with like a whole step-by-step process, but I can get into some of it here.

Speaker 2 So the first step is in a calm moment, kind of asking ourselves a version of what is my most generous interpretation of this trigger event in someone else.

Speaker 2 We always come up with the least generous interpretation with the trigger. My kid's pathetic.
My kid's so helpless. My kid's so annoying with whining, right? It's easy to come up with.

Speaker 1 What about anxiety? Because that's a big trigger for me. Like my daughters, my son, not so much anymore but our one of our daughters in particular is little mel

Speaker 1 and there is intense coming at me i am tech like 15 texts in a row when she's nervous about something and then the second i answer the question it's well you're not right and then hang up yep and that is deeply triggering to you yes So is it the texts that are triggering?

Speaker 2 Is it the, you're not helping me that's triggering, which is the worst part?

Speaker 2 Or the whole arc?

Speaker 1 The whole arc of it is so like on, it's just like this, I feel like a punching bag almost.

Speaker 2 So I guess the question I would ask myself there is like, okay, so what's my most generous interpretation of what my daughter's doing? Just so I can start to see my kid as a teammate.

Speaker 2 So we can be against this pattern together that doesn't work for either of us instead of me looking at my child like they are the enemy and they are the problem.

Speaker 2 So I think, for example, you might say to softening

Speaker 1 what just got me there is the word enemy.

Speaker 1 Like, I feel like

Speaker 1 there was an experience

Speaker 1 as a kid that if

Speaker 1 I did something that upset my mom, I was the enemy.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes.
And I think that's for so many of our trigger moments.

Speaker 2 Actually, we can be, when you ask yourself, what's the most generous interpretation of of someone's behavior.

Speaker 2 I think this is the big framework shift that I think is the most important in any relationship where there's conflict.

Speaker 2 Is we go from sitting across from someone and looking at them like they're the problem to sitting on the same side as the table as someone and looking together at the problem.

Speaker 2 So, I always think about that, or I try to. Like, am I looking at my kid like they're the problem, or can I reframe what's happening so I feel like it's me and my kid against a problem?

Speaker 2 So, can we be together against helpless whining versus, am I looking at my kid like a helpless, annoying kid who's just bothering me?

Speaker 2 Can I look at my kid like, wow, something important is happening with anxiety, and it's tricky to figure out.

Speaker 2 It's tricky for us to figure out something that's going to be helpful versus, does my kid come and vomit her anxiety and then reject me? And that's just annoying.

Speaker 2 I promise, as long as we're in that second mindset, nothing's going to be useful. Just because we don't like our kid when we think about them that way.

Speaker 1 So, right? Well, I love the reframe of bring them to your side of the table. What do you do if you're a kid that grew up with somebody who was wildly controlling?

Speaker 1 What you wore, how you dress, go hug your uncle, know you're doing sports.

Speaker 2 What would I say to that kid?

Speaker 1 How do you hand, like if you're now the adult?

Speaker 2 Who was that kid?

Speaker 1 Yes, because what I want to focus on are kind of the

Speaker 1 top experiences that you experience as a child, right? So one would be overly sensitive like I was, overly worried, overly needy, over like I was just a super sensitive kid. Okay.

Speaker 1 And when you're a super sensitive kid that feels separate and unsafe, emotionally,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 don't get those needs met, it develops into a certain type of adult. When you are a kid that is controlled by a parent, you develop into certain types of patterns as adult.
When you have a parent that

Speaker 1 emotionally abusive, either weeks of the silent treatment or struggling with their own mental illness or they're not there for long periods of time, that develops certain coping mechanisms as a kid.

Speaker 1 And what I love about what you're saying is so many of us have experiences inside our emotional

Speaker 1 life.

Speaker 1 of being separate.

Speaker 1 And what I would love to hear you help us with is as you're starting to realize as, you know, we listen to you and dig into your work, Dr. Becky, that this is very, very normal.

Speaker 1 And it's also a huge opportunity for you to take control of your adult life and your adult experience, which then completely changes how you parent and how you love another adult and how you show up at work.

Speaker 1 Like I'm sitting here thinking, One of the biggest things that a lot of women write into me about in the work landscape is just feeling terrified about speaking up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's directly tied to you being shut down as a kid.

Speaker 2 I mean, 100%. Now, this is my favorite topic to talk about is especially for women, our relationship with desire.
All tantrums are, and meltdowns are explosions of desire. That's what they are.

Speaker 2 You want something badly and your parents, you know, and something gets in the way of having it. I wanted my grilled cheese cut in a way.
And what we so often do as a parent is we shut it down.

Speaker 2 We're like, you're being ridiculous. But what a kid learns is my desire is unsafe.
My desire.

Speaker 2 And I actually think about this a lot with,

Speaker 2 I have two boys and one daughter. I think about all of them, but I think about it a lot with my daughter.
How can I help her learn regulation skills while preserving access to desire?

Speaker 2 And I think that, yeah, desire in terms of asking for a raise, desire in terms of sex, desire in terms of, am I allowed to want things for myself? Right.

Speaker 2 That's what I think all of us adults are trying to like reclaim. Right.
Right. Am I allowed to want things even when it makes someone else upset?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 And most of us, me too, early on learned to, quote, be a good girl, which just means I have learned that I had to, for my survival, to be adaptive, pay more attention to what others wanted of me than what I might want for myself.

Speaker 2 So what's the process of reclaiming that?

Speaker 1 Can I ask one more question before we go into reclaiming? Because this is a huge area.

Speaker 1 Because we're now also

Speaker 1 stepping into people pleasing and stepping into perfectionism

Speaker 1 and stepping into overthinking and questioning yourself

Speaker 1 and the inability to take risks.

Speaker 1 And this is particularly true for women.

Speaker 1 And this fear of being seen. And I see exactly what you're saying, that it is tied to a deep-seated belief that you don't deserve to be seen or that the stuff that you want doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 Well, because you learned early on whenever you were most in contact with your want, with your desires, it endangered your relationships.

Speaker 1 Can you give us just a couple examples that really bring it home for people that are like, wait, what do you think? So here's a great example.

Speaker 2 Cause I also think we do this like black and white thing. We're like, oh, so I just let my kid have the tantrum.
Like we, we give ourselves buckets. So let's say you're in the toy store.

Speaker 2 It's your kid. I think it's a perfect example.
And you're like, we're just going to the store to get a birthday present for your cousin.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Something like that. And you're like, okay, this is going to go well.
And then, of course, it doesn't go well.

Speaker 2 Your kid is a meltdown because they want the Lego set and you don't, you don't want to get it for them. It wasn't your plan.

Speaker 2 So when we say to our kid, what is wrong with you? Like, I told you we're here for your cousin. Can you ever focus on someone else?

Speaker 2 My kid doesn't learn anything except wanting things for myself is bad and wrong. Period.
Now, the opposite isn't good either. Oh.
Okay, I mean, I guess we'll get you that Lego set and that's okay.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you want to get the Lego set for your kid, obviously get the Lego set, but if your plan wasn't to get it and you didn't want to get it, actually, that's another tricky message for your kid.

Speaker 2 A kid learns my wants and needs are so overpowering to me, but wow, they just made my sturdy leader become not so sturdy and change their mind. That's actually also dangerous.

Speaker 2 Here's where that in-between is.

Speaker 2 It's so hard to be in a toy store and see all these fun things and not get anything. Of course you want that Lego.
It's normal to want things. It's actually awesome that you know what you want.

Speaker 2 You know you want this Lego. Here's the thing.
I could take a picture of it. There will be a time, whether it's Christmas or Hanukkah, your birthday, that something's coming up.

Speaker 2 We're not going to get it today, sweetie. It's just not one of those days where we're going to buy you an extra thing.
I know that's so hard. And so what my kid learns there is my parent sees the want

Speaker 2 under the meltdown. I didn't become a bad kid.
I became a kid who's a good kid, who wants something for myself. And that's just a hard thing to want something and not have it.

Speaker 2 I'm preserving access to my desire while I still have a very boundaried, sturdy leader.

Speaker 1 How do you,

Speaker 1 as an adult,

Speaker 1 reclaim that access to desire

Speaker 1 and repair this?

Speaker 2 I think starting, and I think for anything we're trying to shift, it's actually hugely helpful to our circuits, to our body, to just start with like the things that I struggle with today, they were all adaptations.

Speaker 2 That's why it's actually why I don't like diagnosis as a psychologist. It's why I don't love the word symptoms.

Speaker 2 I think it's like kind of this cruel thing we do to people that we're like, yeah, wow, you were really crafty as a kid and learned to adapt.

Speaker 2 And now we're going to slam back a label that like is pretty mean on you. Like, what's wrong with you? Right.

Speaker 2 You know, and I do feel like there's something in our body that's like, hey, can you recognize like everything I did for you?

Speaker 2 You know, like, okay, maybe I don't work for you anymore, but like I need some credit, right? It's like anything else in life, right?

Speaker 2 You have to say to an employee at your table, like, that's a great idea. We're going to hold that for next quarter, right?

Speaker 2 And if you only say to them, no, no, no, they, they just get louder and louder. They want to be seen too.
They don't necessarily or they shut down. Or they shut down and it comes out in another way.

Speaker 2 Right. So I think actually there's something to saying.
There's not something. There's so much to saying.
I have a phrase I always use for myself. Thank you for your years of service.

Speaker 2 Like I think, you know, when I'm struggling with something, so someone's now like, yeah, I have this time and I'm trying to like do stuff for myself and figure out what I want.

Speaker 2 And all that happens is I have a panic attack. It's so hard to know what I want.
Just to put your hand on your heart and even say to that feeling, like

Speaker 2 this must have been adaptive early on to actually not know what I want.

Speaker 2 And it's frustrating for me now.

Speaker 2 And still, like, I appreciate the way that.

Speaker 2 You helped keep me safe for probably 18 years. Like that was really meaningful.
And then I could continue.

Speaker 2 I'm going to try little experiments here and there.

Speaker 2 You're going to resist. You're going to tell me I'm being selfish.
You're going to tell me this is stupid. You're going to tell me I'm not good at things.
That's okay. That's your role.

Speaker 2 But now that I know that, like, I'm going to show you over time

Speaker 2 that, that we're safer now to try different things. Like, and if someone's listening being like, do you actually mean I should say that to myself?

Speaker 2 Like, I literally mean you should actually put your hand on your heart and say those words inside your head or actually just say them out loud. And if you start tearing,

Speaker 2 that would be completely normal. Or if you're tearing now, completely normal.

Speaker 2 And I often think these tears we have, they're like tears of relief from, yeah, like an inner child in us that's been waiting to hear a certain message, right?

Speaker 1 We have to honor.

Speaker 2 the things that hold us back in the way that they used to help us before those things are willing to a little bit release themselves.

Speaker 1 So Dr. Becky, when we come back, I want to learn how we start to figure this out.

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Speaker 1 So, Dr. Becky, how do you start to figure this out? Do you start with the triggers, like wherever you feel that alarm or that sort of discomfort in your body?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that's a great place to start, especially if you have a visceral reaction, right? Because often what we do after we have a trigger is we blame ourselves.

Speaker 2 I'm a horrible person, or if it's, I messed up my kids forever. I'm an awful person.
I'm a monster. So, what we do is we actually repeat.
the pattern that got us there.

Speaker 2 We add aloneness and self-alienation and self-blame. And that's actually the experience of shame.
Shame used to be an adaptive emotion when we were kids.

Speaker 2 Shame stops us in our tracks from being in a part of ourselves that would have been met with distance. Yeah.
So it's trying to help us out, but shame really does, it's a freeze state.

Speaker 2 So every time now we add on shame and blame.

Speaker 2 We add a frozenness. And most people I know who want to change are like, yeah, change isn't conducive with freeze.
It's conducive with movement. You have to.
So it's interesting.

Speaker 2 People say, especially after you yell at your kids or something, like, oh, but I feel like if I treat myself with compassion or something, I'm like letting myself off the hook.

Speaker 2 If you want to let yourself off the hook for change, shame and blame yourself because that will make it impossible to change.

Speaker 1 Impossible.

Speaker 1 Well, it's interesting what you're saying about the fact that when you pile on after you've been triggered and you make yourself wrong for having this stored, memorized, adaptive reaction, whether it's to withdraw or to yell or to blame or whatever,

Speaker 1 that when you said the piece about you're alone,

Speaker 1 I think this also contributes to why so many of us feel lonely and feel separate the older we get, that we have spent so long,

Speaker 1 and it sounds like almost from childhood,

Speaker 1 adapting

Speaker 1 to situations that we didn't quite understand. And then we continue to do it and continue to do it and continue to do it.
And so you feel like just isolated, you know, with yourself.

Speaker 1 But all we really want is love. Like I know

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 your whole premise is we are all good inside. I believe the same is true.
I always say, first of all, anybody is capable of changing. And second, just assume good intent.

Speaker 1 Before you freaking pile on something, just assume good intent.

Speaker 2 Easier said than done. And about yourself, assume good intent.

Speaker 1 Right. That's probably the piece I missed.
That's hard.

Speaker 2 Like, I didn't want to yell at my kid. I didn't want to yell at my daughter.
Like, nobody, I don't know any parent who's like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to eviscerate my child.

Speaker 2 Like, no one wants to do that. And, and then it doesn't make it, quote, okay that you did it.
But I always think we just ask the wrong questions. You'd be like, so it's okay.

Speaker 2 It's like, no, it's not okay or not okay. It happened.
Now we just have a choice of if we want to be effective in change, period. It's not about evaluating it as okay or not okay.

Speaker 2 The thing already happened. Like, is it okay that a car crashed? No one would say that.
You're like, well, the car crashed. Okay.
Now what? Right.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I think assuming positive intent about ourselves actually leaves us on the hook for change because we can see we're a good person who did not a good thing.

Speaker 2 And then we actually have the energy to be curious. Right.
And I think that's where we change and we're curious. Okay.
So I yelled at my kid. Okay.
Something happened.

Speaker 2 My kid complained about the dinner I made. But I think a question we often have to ask ourselves about a trigger is not where did the pathway end in a trigger, but where did that pathway start? right?

Speaker 2 Like, do I have any time to myselves? Where do I practice meeting my own needs? Do I need more help at dinner time? Right.

Speaker 2 That I can't wait till I get to the point until I can get a little bit of a teacher.

Speaker 1 Well, let's just take this

Speaker 1 specific example and break down the tools. Great.
Because I want

Speaker 1 everyone listening to be able to walk out of this, not only empowered around what these emotional triggers are trying to teach you, but to also have a couple concrete steps to take today

Speaker 1 so that they can start to do the repair.

Speaker 1 Because I agree with you that if you start to repair yourself, if you start to become whole, that is going to be the best way to improve your marriage, to improve the way that you impact the team at work, to improve your relationship with your kids, to improve everything.

Speaker 2 Everything.

Speaker 1 So you're at dinner. Yep.
You're cooking dinner.

Speaker 1 And describe a situation and then tell us what we should do. Great.

Speaker 2 So you're cooking dinner, you put it on the table. You've probably had a really stressful day managing a million different things.

Speaker 2 And then you put dinner on the table and your kid says, you know, oh, chicken again. I hate chicken.

Speaker 1 Okay, right.

Speaker 2 Ooh, you know, and you just go off, you know, like you're so ungrateful.

Speaker 1 And why don't you cook dinner?

Speaker 2 Why don't you cook dinner? Why is your father?

Speaker 2 Exactly. You just go off.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So So

Speaker 2 what can we do? Okay. So number one,

Speaker 2 I want everyone to actually form a sentence that starts like this.

Speaker 2 I am a good parent who. And here's why that sentence is so important.

Speaker 2 What we all do to ourselves and our kids is we collapse behavior. into identity.

Speaker 2 I did a bad thing becomes I'm a bad person. My kid did a bad thing means I have a bad kid.

Speaker 2 And then we can't tolerate the thought that we have a bad kid because it makes us feel like a bad parent and we act everything out, right?

Speaker 2 When you say to yourself, I am a good parent, who, and then you instantly behavior.

Speaker 1 I'm a good person. Since there's those of you that I'm a good person,

Speaker 2 I'm a good person who yelled at my kid. I'm a good person who hasn't worked out for a week, even though I told myself I'd work out daily, as an example.
Okay.

Speaker 2 When you say, I am a good person, who,

Speaker 2 you reclaim. your good identity

Speaker 2 and can separate that from a behavior that frankly is probably just not in line with your own values. Like, if you want to work out, it's just not in line with your values that you didn't work out.

Speaker 2 If you don't want to yell at your kids, it's not in line with your own values that you did. And we miss that when we go into, I'm a horrible human being.

Speaker 2 If anyone saw me, they would, you know, they would think I'm a monster. So, that is a really powerful sentence to practice every day.

Speaker 2 And you could practice it at night, looking back on a moment you weren't proud of.

Speaker 2 I'm a good person who got mad at my partner when I was really stressed about my day.

Speaker 2 It actually allows you to repair with your partner because you can only repair from a place of feeling like a good person.

Speaker 2 Because if you're instead in bad person mode, as we know, all of our energy collapses into ourselves to be defensive because it's just too intolerable.

Speaker 2 So I am a good person who, and if you do have kids, it is game-changing to say that. I have a good kid who's saying, I hate you to me a lot.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, but there's still a good kid. Why? Oh, how'd they say that? Why would I say that? That's interesting.
Because I have a shitty kid. No, no, no.
I have a good kid.

Speaker 2 I have a good kid who's saying, I hate you. We activate curiosity with that sentence.
It's so powerful. So that's step one.
Step two is what I call double repair.

Speaker 2 Repair is the single most important strategy to get good at as a human. I really, really would.
you know, put my, put my signature on that.

Speaker 2 And if you think about what that means is if you are supposed to practice getting good at repair, you have permission to keep doing the thing you need to repair for because the only way you can practice repair is if you do that thing.

Speaker 2 So sure, take, I said it. You know, Dr.
Becky said I had to yell at you, honey, because I have to practice repair. It's going to happen.

Speaker 2 So repair really allows us to add in all the elements to our own body and our kid's body that were missing in the first place. Because when you go back First to yourself, right?

Speaker 2 And let's say it's after that dinner incident and you say, whoa, whoa, I'm a good person who who yelled at my kid. Okay, wait, I'm a good person who yelled at my kid.
I didn't mess up my kid forever.

Speaker 2 I can do this, right? You kind of reclaim that goodness. And then you can go to your kid and essentially say, or maybe it's your partner,

Speaker 2 hey, name the incident, right? I yelled at you earlier. Number two, explicitly say, and this is important, it's never your fault when I yell at you.

Speaker 2 Kids especially have to hear that because if we don't tell them something's not their fault, they wire self-blame just to gain control and safety in the situation.

Speaker 2 And we don't want one more generation of people who's wired with self-blame when they struggle. It's never your fault when I yell.

Speaker 2 And I know there's a part of everyone who's like, but it kind of was their fault. And then they said, you know, it's not.
Again, we respond to our own body.

Speaker 2 Now, if you want to say to them tomorrow, 24 hours at least later, hey, I wonder, you know, what we could do about dinner.

Speaker 2 If you could, you know, tell me the foods you like, or I wonder what you could say to me.

Speaker 2 if you don't like what i serve because of course you're allowed to not like something there's just a lot of ways of saying it that's a separate conversation right totally separate.

Speaker 2 So name what happened, say it's not their fault. And then say something like this.
I'm sure that felt scary. You are right to feel that way.

Speaker 2 And just like you have feelings, we're trying to help you manage. I do too.

Speaker 2 And I promise to work on them more. It's not only important in my parenting.
It's just important for myself. Repair.
Repair changes the direction.

Speaker 2 of your own and your kids or your partner's circuitry. It is so powerful.

Speaker 2 And then I think number three, I think if we we think about, I call it like the road to reactivity, like if the, if the last part of the road is yelling at my kids about dinner,

Speaker 2 right? That's the end of the road. As long as I'm on the road, I'm going to go there.
And actually the key is to wonder, what signs do I have that I'm starting that road?

Speaker 2 Because we often say, like people say to me, they're like, okay, so what am I supposed to do when, you know, no one helped me with this. And then I did this.
And then my three kids did this.

Speaker 2 And then this happened. How do I not yell? I'm like, I have no idea.
Okay. I just think we're, we have to upgrade your question.

Speaker 1 I think we have to have to upgrade. Upgrade the upgraded question, baby.

Speaker 2 I think the upgraded question is when did I start down a pathway that ended in me feeling depleted and unworthy?

Speaker 2 Once I get to depleted and unworthy, then of course my kids commenting about my food triggers every feeling I have. And maybe it starts, oh, you know what?

Speaker 2 I did tell myself I wasn't going to commit to like any more PTA meetings and I did sign up and I spent my whole day in this meeting. I didn't want to be in.

Speaker 2 Or I did tell myself, I'm going to sleep in one of the days this weekend. And I didn't do it.
And I didn't do it.

Speaker 1 So let me ask you this as a final question because I know so many of my listeners and your listeners struggle with this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that is beautiful, doable,

Speaker 1 actionable, three-step advice when you do it to someone else. Let's say the issue that somebody starts to uncover is the fact that you're giving up on yourself.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 let's say

Speaker 1 that you are

Speaker 1 going to make a commitment that you're just going to promise to get up in the morning and you're going to meditate, or you're going to promise to get up in the morning and you're going to go for a walk.

Speaker 1 And you continually don't keep the promise to yourself.

Speaker 1 What are the steps to not only repair that abandonment of self, but to also empower you

Speaker 1 to start keeping a promise to yourself.

Speaker 2 So I think what I'd say there is we want to get curious about a part of ourselves that clearly is kind of taking over the driver's seat.

Speaker 2 So right now, if you're saying, I really do want to get up and take a walk in the morning.

Speaker 2 And I think this is an important step, say, is that really from a place of shame and guilt or from a place of living in alignment with my values?

Speaker 2 If it's from shame and guilt, oh, I'm a horrible, lazy person. Yeah, no one ever motivates from that place.
So I think we have to ask ourselves that question.

Speaker 2 If it's like, no, look, I just just know it makes me feel better, like it really does, and yet I don't do it. Okay, that's a good start.

Speaker 2 Then I think the next step is: there's some part of me that activates in the morning and sends me some message that stops me from getting out of bed.

Speaker 2 And it's okay if I don't know what that voice is, but I'm just going to start listening for it and being curious. And right now, if everyone even imagines this part,

Speaker 2 a key to behavior change is realizing that we have feelings or or thoughts that are a part of us and not all of us. And they only become a problem when they take over all of us.

Speaker 2 So maybe it's even as simple as like, yeah, I wake up and there's a part of me that's like, oh, I'm so tired. I can't do this.
Were you in bed with me this morning? I was. No.

Speaker 2 I'm so many, so many.

Speaker 2 Right. So there's this part.
Yeah. And then what's really key is we often think we have to shut down that part or shoot away.
Going back to aloneness is always the problem.

Speaker 2 That part's just looking for a magnet. Once a part of us or a feeling has a magnet and a partner, it actually is no longer as powerful.
It gets cushioned.

Speaker 2 So it's the difference between saying, I know I'm tired, but other people do this and you're so lazy, no, versus hi, tired part. Literally saying hi to it.
Hi, tired part.

Speaker 2 You always activate first in the morning. Here's the thing.
I know you're real and you're tired

Speaker 2 and you're a part of me. Not all of me.
And I know there's also another part somewhere in there. She's just quieter right now.
Saying,

Speaker 2 I can do hard things. I can do hard things.
And even if I don't kind of activate her now, maybe tomorrow morning she'll get a little bit louder just because she hears me saying,

Speaker 2 even though I can't hear you,

Speaker 1 I know you're there.

Speaker 2 And there's something about telling ourselves when we're struggling that that part is real. Right.
That's why we say hi to it.

Speaker 2 So we're validating its existence, but then reminding it, it's a part of us and not all of us. This is something, this is going to sound so cheesy.

Speaker 2 My five-year-old does this at night when he's worried. We've taught him.

Speaker 1 I don't think it sounds cheesy at all.

Speaker 2 He talks to his, he calls it his worry boy about the things he's worried. Hi, worry boy.
You always get loud at night and you tell me the things I'm worried about and you're a part of me.

Speaker 2 I'm going to cry. And he goes, not all of me.
And I also have, I'm safe, boy, and I have happy memories, boy. And I'm just going to listen to him a little bit right now.

Speaker 2 And I always think for my son, like, I feel like that's going going to make him like, quote, succeed in the real ways in life more than anything he learns in school. Like, it's incredible.

Speaker 2 I'm like, wow, he's wired that at age five. Like, I'm working on that now.
So that language, and we can walk through it a little bit. Start by greeting it.
Say hi to it.

Speaker 2 And, and there's like a humor I like to have, you know, like I could have predicted you would pop up. There you are again.
It's always the first thing. Okay.
Like you're kind of a broke.

Speaker 2 Cause those voices, they are kind of broken records. Like they're boring.

Speaker 1 Right. And they're

Speaker 1 heavy. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's the heaviness. Okay.
You know what you're going to do now? Now you're going to convince me. I can just start tomorrow.
Oh, yep. That's what happened.
Yep. Yep.
Yep. I got it.
I got it. Okay.

Speaker 2 Hi. I hear you.
And this is IFS language part of this too. There's something to saying to those parts.
I hear you. And I'm just going to ask you to step back.

Speaker 2 I'm going to ask you to step back

Speaker 2 and just to make a little space for a part of me that can activate even when I'm tired. And it's so respectful.

Speaker 2 And it's so empowering. And it puts you back in the driver's seat with these different parts instead of having a part that takes over.

Speaker 1 It's so loving.

Speaker 2 So loving.

Speaker 1 Dr. Becky, you are so good.

Speaker 1 So good inside and out.

Speaker 2 Well, this is a good disclaimer.

Speaker 2 Like whenever my husband hears my podcast or anything, he's like, please let people know that you love talking about these things because you're working on them, not because you're that good at them.

Speaker 2 So this has been helpful for me too for all my parts. And this is why I love these conversations.
So thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay. I learned so much from that.
I hope you got as much as I got out of that. I know you're going to have a bazillion questions.
So make sure you go to melrobbins.com.

Speaker 1 We also have all kinds of resources there for you, including Dr. Becky's book.
We also have links to her website.

Speaker 1 I've got a bunch of other resources linked there, studies that you may want to check out.

Speaker 1 And finally, in case nobody else tells you this today, I want to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to repair the crap that went down in your childhood, find the good inside of you, and go create a better life.

Speaker 2 I'll see you soon.

Speaker 1 Stitcher.

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Speaker 2 I'm a high-note hitting songbird. But I'm also a bird-watching backpacker.

Speaker 1 Wood thrush, three o'clock.

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Speaker 1 Oh, man, how about waterproof boots, size 10?

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Speaker 1 Really? Who knew?

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