How to Design Your Life (A Full Step-by-Step Process)

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

When was the last time you sat down and really thought about what you want your life to look like?

Now, I'm not talking about your to-do list or what's for dinner or where you dream about going on your next vacation.

I'm talking about your life, the big picture.

You know, when you look out to the future, what do you want it to be?

Where do you want to live?

What do you want to do for work?

Who do you hang out with?

What does it feel like to be you out in the future?

Now, if you don't intentionally design your life, you're going to end up living a life you never wanted.

But I have really great news.

There is a proven three-step method to designing your life at any age.

A professor who's been teaching a course all about this process for 15 years is here to walk you and me through today.

And we're going to go through this life design process together.

I'm so excited to do this with you.

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How those ahead stay ahead.

Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

It is always an honor to be together and to spend this time with you.

And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family.

Today, Professor Debbie Millman is here.

For 15 years, she has taught a course on life design at the School of Visual Arts in New York City.

She is the author of seven best-selling books.

Fast Company calls her one of the most creative people in business and one of the most influential designers in the United States.

And she not only teaches people how to design their life, but she is also a legendary designer of physical products.

If you walk into a grocery store right now, Debbie has had a hand in designing about 20% of the packaging you see on the shelves, which means she's a visionary.

Her expertise is that she can create something from nothing.

And that's what you and I are going to do when you go through this three-step process today to design the life that you want.

You're going to learn how to stand in the present and envision something out in the future that really excites you.

How cool is that?

And even better, Professor Millman and I have created an exclusive workbook that she designed just for you and everybody that you care about.

And it's free.

It's right in the show notes if you're listening, or you can just go to melrobbins.com slash design your life and download it for free.

So please help me welcome Professor Debbie Millman to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Professor Debbie Millman, thank you for being here.

I'm so excited you are here on the Mel Robbins podcast.

Thank you.

It's just

incredible to be here.

Well, I love this topic of designing the life that you want.

I love your work.

You are somebody that I've been wanting to have here in our Boston studios from the very beginning.

So thank you for making the trip.

And I'd love to have you start by speaking directly to the person who's with us right now.

They want to design a life that they love.

And so, Debbie, what does it mean to design your life?

Designing your life is about intention.

It's not about furniture.

It's not about clothes.

It's about intention.

It's about making decisions about what you want your life to look like and feel like and embody,

and then creating a plan to try and make that happen.

I absolutely love that because you do have a

process that you have been teaching to students and graduate students for almost two decades.

And you're going to walk us step by step through that process.

And one of the things, though, in case the person listening isn't familiar with your work or they're not a graphic designer or business owner or somebody that thinks about design, an artist, a creative,

can you just explain

how you use design principles in relation to creating the life that you want?

Design, in its essence, is about very deliberate decisions about how you want anything to exist.

It could be a product, it could be a logo, it could be a room, it could be a meal.

Everything that we do intentionally is something that we can design.

We design how we look, we design how we live.

We can even begin to learn how to design some of the things that are more unconscious.

And that's what this roadmap for growth really allows you to do.

It allows you to sort of wake up some of the things that you hope and dream for,

but might have been too afraid to look at or see or design.

Well, what I love about

the just topic of design is that even though I don't consider myself a talented designer,

if I step in the shoes of somebody, whether they're designing fashion or they're designing products,

they're creating art, it's the ability to create something that doesn't exist right now.

Yes, absolutely.

And that's the design in its highest power.

Is it possible to design your life?

Like, cause I think that anybody, so many, so many of us have had the experience where I'm like completely stuck.

I don't know what I want.

And you're about to walk us through this incredible process where you can design your life is it really possible

well

Mel

look what you've done no look what you've done

there is

a way in which you can create a pathway

to be able to make decisions about what you want, even if those things change

because it's not about determining what is probable.

It's about determining what is possible.

And being able to have possibilities for your life allow you to be able to start to experiment with what those possibilities might feel like.

I love what you just said.

I want to make sure that as you were listening to Debbie, that you really got that.

It's not about what's probable.

It's about what's possible.

Yes.

And a lot of people make decisions based on what they think is going to be the most likely successful outcome.

And they make those decisions primarily because they're afraid to fail or be rejected or be humiliated or shamed for trying to do something.

that they might not think that they have any right to want.

And I'm speaking from experience.

I'm not just speaking theoretically.

I'm not talking about this because I learned this in college.

Actually, most of what I've experienced comes from failing or being rejected or feeling ashamed of what I wanted or who I am

and trying to work through that to understand

that we have this one life.

that you can move forward and create something

with creativity, with clarity, with spirituality, with honesty.

And you're going to teach us through this process

that you have been teaching people for almost two decades how to create a vision from your life that doesn't exist right now and might even be something that you can't even comprehend that you could possibly create for yourself.

And you're here to say, no, no, no, no, through this process of thinking like a designer, you can intentionally design the the life you want yeah i want to start by having you tell me

how you came up with this exercise in the first place well it's something that i learned from someone else i didn't plant these seeds these seeds were planted for me In 2005, I took a class with the late, great Milton Glaser.

Milton Glaser is one of the great, great designers of the 20th century.

He created the iHeart New York logo.

He created that magnificent, memorable Dylan poster where he's in silhouette, but his hair is all flying colors.

And the last exercise of the class, of this program, was writing an essay to yourself about what you wanted your life to look like five years in the future.

If you could have and get and be anything that you wanted.

Anything.

And he asked us to take it very seriously.

He said he'd been teaching this class for 50 years.

Five, zero, 50 years.

Five, zero, yep.

And he asked us to write an essay, five years in the future, if we could have exactly the life that we wanted.

So he wanted us to write it from the moment we woke up

on a day five years in the future till the moment we closed our eyes to go to sleep.

Even though he was one of the most famous, if not the most famous graphic designer in the United States, maybe the world.

He said that this class was the most important thing he was doing with his life.

Wow.

He also said for some mysterious reason,

this was an exercise that changed people's lives, that he had been doing it for so long that

virtually not a week went by when a former student wrote him and said,

everything came true.

I don't know how how or why, but everything came true.

So not only did I write a 12-page essay, I also made a list

of 20 things that I would be doing in 2010.

And then Mel,

I forgot about it.

It was in a journal that I was keeping that I had a lot of other notes in.

And

about a year later,

I was trying to remember where I had written an address down of something that was important to me.

And I was like, oh, I think I wrote it in that red journal.

And I went back to my journals and I took out the red journal, which I had finished.

And I came across the essay.

I was like, oh, wow.

Because everything that I had written, I was aspiring to.

The things that I was doing, that I love doing, I was doing more of.

But there were so many things.

Like what?

Like teaching at the School of Visual Arts, like being a member, a leader in the American Institute of Graphic Arts, writing a book, of curating an art exhibit.

By 2006,

I had started teaching at the School of Visual Arts.

I had forgotten that I'd even put that on the list.

I had gotten my first book deal.

I had been invited to be a board member.

of the New York chapter of AIGA.

And I was like, whoa.

How did that that happen?

Because I didn't remember that I had written any of that.

I had completely put it out of my mind.

Now, one thing that Milton asked us to do was to read it

out loud to the class.

So everyone got up and shared.

And I do think that that declaration.

was really, really important.

It's one thing to write something and sort of hide it.

It's another thing to almost admit that these are things that you want and once you admit it out loud i think that there's a way that it somehow integrates into your own intentions yes which is what design is it's decisions that you make intentionally so you can make a decision about how you want to live you can make a decision about who you want to love these things are very much determined by what we believe we're entitled to, what we believe we're worthy of, of, and what we think we have enough talent to be able to achieve.

But a lot of those are so self-determined.

And often they're determined at a very young age before we're really even conscious of making those decisions that then impact the rest of our lives.

How did this exercise change your life?

Well, it changed my life in every possible way.

It changed how I work, who I work with, what I do, how I do it.

So what happened was Milton stopped teaching okay

and I started teaching Milton's on the board of directors at the School of Visual Arts I also asked him if it would be okay since he wasn't teaching it anymore to use that exercise in my classes but because I was teaching much younger people than mid-level designers looking to reboot their life, I wanted to give them a bit more runway.

I wanted to give them more of an opportunity to have their lives unfurl with a little bit more patience.

So you took the exercise that was transformative to you, that Milton had taught you when you were in your 40s taking this class, and you made it your own because you were thinking about the fact that a lot of your students are in their 20s.

Yes.

Can you walk us step by step through this process?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Okay, great.

Because it's me and this person somewhere around the world that's taking the time to listen.

How do we start?

Well, you start by starting.

Okay.

You just decide, I'm going to start this for me.

And I'm going to experience a lot of different emotions.

Not all of them are going to be pleasant, but they're all real emotions.

And those emotions are really important to look at because some people do have stress doing these types of exercises.

They have stress for any number of reasons.

One, because they might not think that they can achieve it.

They might not think they're worthy.

They might have a lot of fear about wanting things.

What does it mean to want something, to really want something, and to admit that you want something?

You've got this incredible deck of cards called the Remarkable Life Deck.

This is a deck of cards that

I've created.

I designed and wrote the questions.

It is a deck that includes instructions.

It includes a little journal so that you can write in it if you want.

And it includes 30 cards that have two different ways you can approach this exercise.

The first is very prescriptive, the way I like things, with very clear questions.

How do you define happiness?

What are your career goals?

What are you telling yourself you can't do that you can?

Those are the kinds of questions I like.

Very clear.

But other people are maybe a little bit more abstract, want a little bit more freedom to go in lots of different directions that they aren't planning for.

And so the other side of the cards are prompts, imagine immensities, make the impossible possible.

Took a long time too.

So it gives you a little bit more freedom if you prefer being more abstract.

And it gives you a little bit more clarity if you like a protocol.

And one thing I want to say about you is that

you were adamant.

that we made sure that the process that we're going to go through isn't something that you have to necessarily buy the deck of cards for.

And so I want to just acknowledge you, Professor Millman, for making a download available for free.

So wherever you're watching this or you're listening, you can go to melrobbins.com slash design your life.

And Professor Millman has designed something for you.

that you can download that will act as a companion to everything that we're talking about for free.

And so I want to thank you up front for that.

Oh, my pleasure.

I wanted when I was asked to create something around this exercise, I was very specific about it at the time being cards that people can play with.

They can answer some of the questions.

They can answer all of the questions.

They can go in any order they want to, or they can go in the order that they came out of the box.

And so

for people to have this access to this exercise is the most important thing to me.

So one quick question is, how specifically should we do this exercise?

Because, you know, I know the person that's with us right now listening or watching is probably a lot like I am.

Like, Professor Millman, how do I do this, Debbie?

Tell me what to do.

Am I writing it down?

Can I listen to this podcast if I'm on a walk and then come back and write it down?

Like, what's the actual steps before you walk us through the prompts and questions?

I would suggest that you

write however you like to write.

Okay.

If you like to write on your phone, write it on your phone.

If you want to write it on your iPad, you can write it on your iPad.

If you want to write it on paper, awesome.

If you want to write it in a journal, beautiful.

However, you feel comfortable, that's the most important thing.

There's no prescription to how it's done.

And I would

wait for an opportunity or carve out an opportunity for you to

be in a place where you feel peaceful, where you feel free, where you'll have some space just for you.

And then

start to

work

on beginning to envision what your life could be like if you could have anything that you wanted and you were unafraid to pursue your dreams.

I love that.

And so if you're listening or watching right now, I'm going to invite you to just listen or watch this entire conversation because I know your work and I know simply experiencing the conversation right now will actually crack something open.

So that when you find

time to sit with a journal or be in a place where you can write this stuff out, you're going to have already taken the first step and be really ready to just jump into that cold pool on a warm summer day.

And it's going to be incredible.

So awesome.

And again, the first sentence I ask them all to start with: it is

October 29th, 2035.

I open my eyes and

where are you?

What are you doing?

Who are you with?

Are you sleeping next to someone?

Do you have pets?

Do you have children?

What are your sheets like?

What does your bedroom look like?

What does your day start with?

How do you exercise?

Do you have a spiritual practice?

What are you eating?

Where do you go to work?

Do you have meetings?

What kind of money do you need?

And so on.

Do you have a bicycle?

Do you have a car?

Do you have a skateboard?

Whatever it is that you imagine you could have if anything that you wanted could be manifested without fear,

without worrying about the ways in which it could happen.

Just this is your life 10 years from now.

That's the opening invitation.

So whatever date.

And wherever you are and however old or young you may be, the invitation is to time travel ahead 10 years from today.

And that is how we begin this exercise of designing the life that you want.

Why is 10 years an important timeframe to help you not think about probability, but to imagine what might be possible?

This is really amending the original exercise that Milton created.

He gave us a timeframe of five years.

I don't think that's realistic at all.

And I don't want people to feel they have to be realistic.

One of the other reasons that this can be distressing for people is that they are thinking about what is realistic.

I don't want you to think about realistic.

I want you to think the opposite of realistic.

They also get very caught up in the process.

This is not an exercise about process.

I don't even want you to think about the process.

I want you to think about the outcome.

If you start thinking about how am I going going to do this, it defeats the whole purpose.

Make it your dream.

This is my fantasy about what my life could be if I could get everything that I wanted.

And it doesn't mean you're going to get everything you want, but it's certainly going to get you more than what you have.

That's true.

And that I can guarantee.

So we're going to think 10 years ahead.

I'm 56 years old.

So I'm now going to think 10 years ahead.

I am 66 years old.

You may be in your 20s and now you're thinking about being in your 30s.

You may be a teenager and now you're thinking about your 20s.

You may be in your 30s.

You're thinking about your 40s.

And so this is an invitation to go

one decade ahead, 10 years in your life.

And then the next question you ask yourself is, 10 years from now, where do you live?

Describe your surroundings.

So I'm waking up.

I'm 66.

I cannot believe I'm 66 years old.

Wait until you're my age.

Then you're in your 70s

and so you think about yourself 10 years older

and you imagine waking up and opening your eyes and the first thing that you ask yourself is where do you live

where are you well for me i i see the ocean and i don't live near the ocean right now

Well,

I think that's cue.

What happens if the thing that you immediately see makes no sense?

Or

you, do people ever open their eyes and imagine themselves 10 years from now and they can't see where they live?

Well, one question that I would ask you is, why doesn't it make sense, Mel?

It's something that you're envisioning for yourself, this ocean.

Why doesn't it make sense?

You're already telling yourself that something maybe isn't possible or doesn't compute before it's possible and before it could even maybe remotely compute.

You've already said process.

You've already said, I want to understand why I want this or how I want this or how I'm going to get it without just allowing yourself to envision being in that environment.

And that's what holds us back from ever getting that because we're thinking process, we're thinking probability, we're thinking realistic.

So if you ask yourself the question, it's 10 years from now.

I open my eyes, where am I living?

And you have a vision, Paris.

Oh, I live on the mountains.

Oh, I live in a ski tape.

Oh, I live in a beach.

Oh, I live in a high-rise, a penthouse.

This is a spectacular home.

What?

Yeah.

If it doesn't make sense, you immediately go, uh-uh, process, realism, probability.

But this exercise isn't about process, probability, and realism.

The exercise you're teaching us is how to design the life you actually want.

Right.

And these questions help us imagine possibilities that we don't even realize are within our reach over time.

Yes.

And or we might.

hope that they're within our reach, but we don't have

what I guess people say is confidence to go out and make it happen.

But I really think that confidence is not only a myth, but it's really overrated in terms of being able to

depend on it to help us make things happen.

Debbie, I am so grateful for this conversation.

And I know that the people in your life are going to love this too.

We're going to take a quick break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

And here's what I want you to do over the break.

Send this episode to somebody who has a dream for a bigger life, somebody that you care about and that you want to empower and inspire with the tools they need to create that life.

And don't forget, Debbie and I are giving you a free workbook that she designed just for you that walks you through the step-by-step tools and process that we're talking about right now so you can design the life you've always wanted.

You can just go to the show notes or or go to melrobins.com slash design your life, download it for free, and please share it with everybody because everybody deserves to design a life that they love, particularly if they don't know what they want.

And stick with us because we'll be right back and Debbie and I will be waiting for you after the break.

Stay with me.

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welcome back it's your friend mel and today you and i are learning from professor debbie millman all about taking the steps and using the tools to create your dream life so what is the next question you need to ask you should ask yourself in this process of designing the life that you want you've now opened your eyes you imagine where you live it doesn't have to make sense just keep going going with it.

What's the next question we ask ourselves?

What does your home look like?

Huh.

Home.

Interesting, because it doesn't, it's somewhat modern and very

beachy, I guess.

Well, it's like where I live now.

And I can envision you in that.

Like when you say it, it makes sense to me.

Yeah.

It feels.

like home.

And a lot of the questions here that I pulled out aren't necessarily in order now, but they're just some of the questions that I love most.

What kind of love do you need?

I need constant.

I need the dog running around.

I need the coffee brought to me in bed.

I need grandchildren running around everywhere.

Exactly.

Constant love.

That's what I need.

Yep.

Are you in a relationship?

Describe who you love most, what they're like, and why you love them.

Describe your physical self.

How is your health?

How do do you take care of yourself?

I have hope on the other side because I hope that I stay healthy.

I hope we all stay healthy.

This is one that sometimes

gives people pause.

How do you take up space?

What does that mean?

That means,

do you allow yourself

to be fully present?

Do you try to make yourself smaller so other people can be present?

I think that a lot of people

are afraid of taking up space because they might feel like they're literally and figuratively too big, that they're somehow more than they should be, that they're too much,

that they want more than they should.

Do you have a spiritual practice?

If so, what does that entail?

Outline your relationship with money.

How much do you need?

How much do you want?

What do you want to do with it?

10 years from now, what have you developed mastery of?

And on the back, it says it took a long time to, because I think it takes a long time to gain mastery of anything.

And I think that in today's speed of technology, with today's speed of technology,

There's an expectation that as soon as you graduate college, you are a master of whatever it is you want to be a a master of, that you are expected to be successful out of the gate.

And I think that's heartbreaking because I think it takes a long time.

It takes a long time to do anything worthwhile because you have to practice at it.

That mastery question is really interesting.

What if you don't know?

what you want to do?

So I'm thinking about the number of people that are going to share this with 20-somethings in their life or people in their 30s who have spent time doing a certain career and now they're like, I don't like this.

I need to reinvent myself.

I need to change.

What if when you ask yourself, what was the question again?

What have you developed mastery of?

What if you don't know?

Chances are you are harboring some love of something.

I don't know anybody that doesn't have dreams.

What I did when I first wrote my five-year plan, which turned into a 12-year plan,

was have a lot of meetings.

I had meetings with gallery.

I had meetings with a publisher.

I had meetings with

corporations that I might be working with.

I was doing a podcast.

I was writing.

So I just had a very busy day.

That's what you imagine.

And that's what I imagined.

I was just going from thing to thing.

I had a lunch date.

I had a dinner date.

And I just had a very full day of doing all the things that I wanted to do.

Now,

if you want to do a lot of things, do a lot of things.

The one thing that I can tell you is when you do a lot of things, it takes a longer time to develop mastery of those things because you don't develop mastery until you practice a lot.

If you're doing five or 10 different things, like I've always done my whole life, it's not a surprise that I didn't get good at them until I was in my 40s, 50s, and now my 60s.

Do I wish that I had spent more time doing any of those one or two or three things?

No.

Because I like a full life and I like, I still love learning new things.

And so if I was only doing one or two things, I think I'd have limited my own creativity in ways that wouldn't have been healthy for me.

Now, there are some people that are like, I want to do that.

I want to be a professional athlete.

I want to be an ice skater.

I want to be a teacher.

I want to be a doctor.

Then focus on that one thing.

But if you don't know what that one thing is,

play with as many things as you want to.

Do you think a lot of us get stuck because we're not clear what we want?

Well, I don't know if it's that we're not clear.

It's that we're afraid to allow ourselves to imagine immensities.

We're afraid to want things.

because we're afraid that if we want things and we don't get them, that we are failing or that we'll be humiliated.

I once asked a student, well, what would be the worst thing that happened if you didn't get this thing that you wanted?

And he said,

I would die of heartbreak.

And I said, no, no, you won't.

You'll metabolize that heartbreak and you'll be able to understand what it taught you.

People determine what is impossible before

they even try what is possible.

Say more about that.

Can you give me an example?

You want to be an artist with a capital A.

You don't think you could be successful at it.

You don't think that anyone will appreciate your work.

You don't think that you'll be able to make a living at it.

Therefore, you don't pursue it.

And that's looking at what the impossible.

It is impossible for me.

But it's all self-determined.

there's no you haven't tested it you haven't tried it you've just assumed it because of your own feelings of self-worth or what you're entitled to or what your life can be so you're determining i'm not going to do this because i don't think i'm going to be successful at it and therefore You are determining what is impossible before you even try.

And so many people do that.

I teach both undergraduate students and graduate students.

And 21-year-olds are already deciding that something is not possible for their lives.

And that breaks my heart.

And because I experience that exact same emotion and that same feeling, I try to help them move through feeling that something isn't possible just because they don't think that they're good enough.

Wow.

What's the next question?

What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?

So 10 years from now, what are five things is it that you would do or that you've done?

Like, how do you do this?

Just anything?

What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?

If you're doing them now, chances are you probably think you're not going to fail.

If you have things as future ideas, chances are you...

would put those on the list.

Well, I'll give you a couple answers because as you asked me about the things that i want to master what are five things i would do that i wouldn't fail well one is and i'm even laughing at myself like i would imagine that that's kind of a normal response that you feel almost embarrassed that you're about to say this out loud and i don't know why i am laughing at myself

But one of them is I really want to write a fantasy novel.

It seems stupid, but I, but I don't know why.

Why does it seem stupid?

Why?

I don't know.

But you're already living a fantasy.

Why wouldn't you want to write a fantasy book?

I don't know.

I guess there's something in it.

Like, maybe it wouldn't be that good.

Maybe that's the

process, probability, realistic.

Yes, I'm actually trashing what's possible.

What are some of the things that your students?

say in response to that question.

Will you read the question again?

What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?

So let's kind of take it by decades since you've been teaching this process to people of all ages.

What do people in their 20s tend to say?

A good job.

A good job?

A good job.

They want a job that they feel proud of.

They want a dream job.

And I encourage them to go after what they want.

That first job can really set you up for a path of either realism or possibility.

And so often they'll take the very first job that comes their way, not because they want that job, but because

they have security in getting a job.

And I'm not suggesting that they turn a job down, but I am suggesting that they could keep looking for something that does fill their heart and soul with more joy than what they might be taking because they have to pay their student loan back.

Right.

And so you take the job, but you keep looking.

Not only do you keep looking, but you keep making things.

You know, my students are very creative people.

And so they often find that they're working for somebody that the work that they're doing might not be what they would consider portfolio material, something that they'd want to show other people.

There's nothing stopping young people, especially from creating whatever they want to create and posting it wherever they want to post it.

There's never been a time in our history as a species where people could share their dreams, their hopes, their creativity with as many people as they want to.

That's an extraordinary thing.

And so I encourage all of my students undertake a 100-day project wherein they have to make something every single day for 100 days.

And that gives them a body of work.

that they can then make as they wish without parameters, without a client, without worrying that they're not going to satisfy someone.

But it also allows them to understand some of what they tell themselves about finishing something.

Just because you're not in the mood to do something doesn't mean you have a permission slip to not do it.

What matters more to you, completing this assignment?

fulfilling your own personal obligation, your accountability to yourself,

or

watching the new season of the bear.

What's the next question?

What are you telling yourself you can't do that you can?

How do people answer that one?

Oh my God.

Usually

with breathtaking self-sabotage,

they tell themselves that they aren't

ever going to meet the person of their dreams.

They tell themselves that they're never going to get the house with the ocean.

They tell themselves that they never can have their own business.

This is all of the circling restrictions that keep us from actually trying.

These are the things that are all about, again, the probability, the realism, and the process.

You don't know that you can't do something until you try to do it.

And just because you're afraid doesn't mean

that again, that gives you a permission slip to not do it.

When you're afraid of something, you have to decide, do I have more hope

for this possibility happening than I do fear?

Or do I have more fear than I have hope?

That's a really important question.

If you're holding yourself back, it means that you have more faith in the fear than you do in your hope.

And then you have to really examine why.

Why am I so afraid of it not working out?

What if it does?

And

I encourage my students who are all young, and I tell them, you're never going to be younger.

You're never going to be more beautiful than you are right now.

And I could say that about pretty much anybody.

You're never going to be younger.

You're never going to be more beautiful.

What are you waiting for?

Waiting for the fear to go away, but it doesn't.

That's until you actually do it.

Yeah.

What's the next question?

How do you define happiness?

How do you define happiness?

I thought about this one a lot.

When am I happiest?

And Mel,

I'm happiest when I'm making things.

That's when I'm happiest.

Making these cards, drawing them, writing them gave me a great deal of joy.

Writing my most recent book, it's a visual book, so I drew and wrote at the same time my love letter to a garden.

When I was doing that, I realized I could do this for the rest of my life.

That's happiness.

Happiness is being with my wife.

I feel an enormous amount of peace and contentment when I'm with her.

You know, Seth Godin is another dear friend of mine and my other mentor, and he talks about happiness as contentment.

Happiness isn't searching for happy.

Happy is in the moment and you're content.

Nothing's going to make you happy if you are content with what you have.

That's happiness.

I agree.

That's how I would have answered it.

Like, just, I'm present.

I'm in the moment.

There's something about what I'm doing that

I'm satisfied with.

It's not some like, and creating is

a space when I'm making something, when I'm hanging out with Chris.

It's all the same.

I think a lot of us have the same thing.

It's true.

Very few people write their 10-year plan and write on it.

I'm going to find the cure for cancer.

I am going to go to Mars.

Those, I don't know that they've ever come up.

It's always about how can I create, create,

construct a life of meaning, being content.

When you ask the question,

time travel 10 years,

wake up.

And you're 10 years older.

Where do you live?

Imagine your day from the moment your eyes open, the way that the sheets feel, the room that you're in, what you're doing, who is there,

what you see, what you do with your time.

Imagine it all the way through to the meals that you eat, the people that you see, the way that you spend your time, where you fall asleep, how the whole thing feels.

When I visualize that, it's painfully simple.

It really is.

Yeah.

It's a beautiful day.

I'm surrounded by family.

Yeah.

And love.

I see a couple close friends.

I'm outside in nature.

I'm working on something.

Yeah.

That fantasy novel that I'm interested in creating.

Yeah.

And there's not a whole lot of complexity to what I'm doing,

but I'm content.

You feel a sense of peace.

Yes.

At home.

Yes.

Recognition.

This is me.

Debbie, I am so grateful for this conversation and for the clarity and the inspiration and the encouragement that you are bringing to me and to the person listening.

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Welcome back.

It's your friend Mel and today you and I are learning from Professor Debbie Millman, all about taking the steps and using the tools to create your dream life.

Before we jump in, I want to let you know that Professor Debbie Millman and I have created an exclusive free workbook to help you design your life.

Get it at melrobbins.com/slash design your life or right in the show notes or in the description in YouTube that goes with this episode.

So, when you do this exercise with people in their 20s, or 30s, or 40s, or 50s, or 60s, do you see a difference based on decades in terms of what people visualize?

Yes.

What do you see when people, when you're teaching this to 20-year-olds, what are the big themes that people imagine when they look ahead 10 years?

Usually, the 20s include job,

relationship,

apartment, home.

Okay,

30s is a lot lot about family, children, mastery of a

professional discipline.

40s, people start to want to create more, to make more, to have more time, to have more balance.

They start thinking about their health more.

They start thinking about physical fitness and what they're going to be like as they get older.

Money is all the way across.

There's not a decade that people don't write about money.

There's also not a decade that people don't write about pets.

Isn't that interesting?

Well, it's love.

Yeah, unconditional love.

Yeah.

50s and 60s, it's more about time.

How am I going to use this time that I have?

How am I going to create more meaning?

What is my legacy?

What am I leaving my family, my children?

Sometimes it's about a second home.

If somebody's listening right now and they're like, okay, well, this sounds incredible.

I do want to design a life that I want.

I do want to dwell in possibility, but that kind of sounds like

for people with like money, privilege, like I don't have the luxury of that.

How does

traveling 10 years ahead and imagining yourself in a different place actually help you address the very real problems and stuckness you may feel right now?

I don't know that it's really about luxury as much as it is about permission.

And yes, if you are able to imagine a life of freedom, there is an assumption there that you can be free.

We got to highlight that.

I want to just take that high.

If you can design a life

that makes you feel more freedom, it means that there is a belief in that assumption that it's possible, that changes you now, because that's what anchors and gives you hope.

Yes.

Seeing a brighter future helps you shore yourself up now.

And that makes you better equipped and more resilient to move through where you're at now, knowing that there's something coming in the future.

Yes.

And if we are all privileged enough to be free,

then let's be more intentional with that freedom.

I'm actually working with an organization where I'm going to go and work with incarcerated people to imagine what their lives can be.

And that

really showed me

how privileged we are when we have our freedom and to take it very, very seriously.

I think that hope is one of the most extraordinary things humans have.

When we lose hope,

we lose our lives.

We lose our spirit.

And

even

if you don't have the kind of freedom that we have,

there is still hope at creating meaning.

And I'm very curious to see

what

people that might not have the same type of freedom that we enjoy

feel about what they can still make and hope for in their lives.

And that will be a great privilege to me to be able to

see how people do that.

What are some of the common mistakes that you see your students and the people that you've taught this exercise to making when they try to design the life that they want?

Most people get caught up in the process.

Okay.

How dare I think I can do this without this type of education or this type of money or this type of confidence or this type of partner or this type of body?

And

they

begin to curtail the possibilities because they can't envision having these things.

Again, they will

think that they want something because they're comparing their lives to others.

And I think that's a lot to do with social media, that if this person is doing this, I should be doing it too.

And they might not even really want to do it, but they think that they should.

Thinking what your family expects of you.

And if you, especially, I have a lot of foreign students.

And in certain Asian cultures, what the parents want for the children are what the children do.

And that is respect for the family and for elders and for parents.

And they really struggle with how much do I owe my family versus how much do I owe myself.

So what is the balance between I may have a value as a person

of kind of being loyal or respectful to elders and my family, and yet it's coming right up against like, maybe I don't want kids.

Maybe I don't want to live in the town where my family is.

Yeah.

Maybe I'm gay.

Maybe I'm gay.

Maybe, you know, whatever.

I don't want to do the profession that they want want me to do.

Yeah.

I think one of the most powerful things about this exercise is the declaration.

So when I do these in my class,

when the students have completed, they have a week to do the exercise,

they come back the next week and we share them.

And that's terrifying to people.

And by share them, you mean read it out loud.

Read them out loud.

That's what Milton did with us.

We had to read it out loud.

Some people are really excited.

They like charge up to to the front of the room and they're like ready to share.

And then other people are super scared and very shaky and afraid to admit this to folks, afraid to share their desires, their needs, their hopes, their dreams.

And

when people hear other people

share their dreams and hopes and

ideas about their future, it empowers them.

This is a wonderful exercise to do with other people because you can share and also the people that love you most

can also encourage you to go further.

And so what happens in the classroom is suddenly people hear other people imagining immensities.

One of my favorite, favorite cards is this one.

Imagine immensities.

What's the question that helps you do that?

Well, in this case, it's this is, what are your career goals?

What is your job title?

How do you get to work?

Do you travel for your job?

How many people do you work with?

What is the best part of your job?

But this imagine immensities is

in consideration of everything here.

Imagine immensities.

And when people hear other people,

nobody responds with, Really?

How do you ever think you can do that?

It's more people cry because they're so thrilled at hearing somebody share and declare.

And

that part of this, I think, is

allows people to go a little bit further.

So after that first week, and when

we share, I ask people to go back one time

and add anything you think you might have missed.

Ooh, so after you read it, you get to add more.

And that's something I did, not Milton.

I love that.

We get to supersize our own possibilities.

When you hear how much other people can expand their possibilities, expand their ideas about their lives.

If you have been consumed with process or probability or realism,

opens up a door.

I see that somebody else, and that's kind of comparison in the best possible way, where, oh my God, this person is giving me permission to

expect a little bit more from myself, hope for a little bit more for myself, manifest a little bit more for myself.

And then they do that.

And then it's done.

And then it's done.

You know, I just want to share this because

for you as you're listening, the Bell Robbins podcast was

completely born out of speaking it as a possibility.

This notion, I'm realizing what would imagine immensities.

I literally would turn to

Tracy, who's the executive producer and my business partner, Christina, and go, could you imagine?

Like, imagine if there was a podcast and we had it in Boston.

Boston is like the home of higher education globally.

Think about all of the research done here and the universities, like 52 second, like two-year schools and trade schools and colleges and universities in the greater Boston area.

There's all these labs and biotech and research and number one research hospitals in the world.

Like imagine if there was a podcast.

It felt like a walk with a friend.

It wasn't like scientists talking to each other.

It was like friends talking, but we were inviting these world-class experts and thinkers and researchers to just hop on over to our studios.

And then we get to share this for free with the world.

Wouldn't that be cool?

That's how it began.

Yeah.

And a lot of people are like, well, there are no podcasts in Boston.

Like, it's really Austin and LA and New York where the big shows are.

And don't you love to prove that you can do whatever you want to to do?

Well, I, you know, I think that it's an important note because,

especially if you're a new listener and you're discovering it because it's one of the most successful podcasts in the world,

you don't realize that it began like everything with a imagine if.

Imagine if.

And without opening up your mind to that question and without

giving yourself permission to dwell in possibility.

Love that.

Dwell in possibility.

That's beautiful.

It will never be.

I love that.

It's just

a want or a desire that you're keeping trapped.

Yeah.

And it's in there.

And so I only say that just because

without allowing

that

possibility to exist, even as just an idea among friends.

Yeah.

There is no change that you're going to make.

Well, I think people sometimes wait for opportunity as opposed to creating opportunity.

And say more about that.

What's the difference between waiting for opportunity versus just becoming the kind of person that can create opportunity?

When you're waiting for opportunity, you are passively waiting for things to come your way and hoping that things will come my way.

I'm hoping that this will happen.

I'm praying for that to happen.

I'm desperate for that to happen.

But you can also look at it from another perspective.

I want this so much.

I'm going to create this opportunity for me to try to make it happen.

Now, there's no guarantee ever.

But if you try, you have more chances of being able to manifest that than if you were waiting.

It's true.

A bunch of our producers on the podcast tried the exercise, and a lot of them, especially the producers who are in their mid to late 20s, found it extremely stressful

to even ask themselves the question, imagine waking up and you're 10 years older.

What does your life look and feel like?

Where do you live?

What do you see?

What does it feel like?

Why do you think it's so stressful

to imagine your ideal future?

I think it's particularly stressful now for people in their 20s because the world is so uncertain.

And it's very hard in today's world where we are constantly being bombarded with the performative aspects of success, where success is made to look effortless and

easily attainable.

And that breaks my heart because I know very few people that have become successful easily.

There's always the prodigy, but most people have to work really hard to get what they really want.

Yeah.

And it takes as much work to get the work.

That's a lot.

How do you cut through that and find that space of possibility?

Because your dreams are still there.

It's almost like what you're saying is the acute amount of pressure and overwhelm and uncertainty and options.

that are before you make you question the possibility even more.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's when you have to double down on what you think you can create in your life.

And I say that word create very intentionally because you are making it up as you go.

And this is an opportunity to

give yourself permission to assume that you could have a life of contentment and peace.

And beauty and love and all those things.

What about somebody who feels this conflict

that, well, shouldn't I care more about the environment?

Shouldn't I care more about the issues of the world?

Why should I be thinking about the kind of life or house or all that stuff?

Like, why does it matter to design a life that makes you

content and that allows you to dwell in what's possible in a world that feels like it's spinning out of control?

This isn't about designing a life of extravagance.

This isn't about, at least from my perspective, designing a life of consumerism, of rampant consumerism.

I actually think that

that's sort of the opposite of what I want to be able to encourage people to do with this.

This is about how do I want to feel in 10 years?

And the more

content you are, the more of service you can be to others.

And for me, being of service to others and being able to

help people avoid some of the mistakes that I made,

or at least giving them a sense of perspective about

what it means to live a life with meaning,

then

I've done my job.

I'm sure you've had so many students go through this exercise and they just don't know what they want.

They know they're unhappy, but they're not sure what they want.

Is there any prompt or anything that really

allows somebody to start to move themselves forward with the exercise and visualizing it?

Often I'll ask somebody, what are you jealous of?

Who do you admire?

What can you learn from those people?

What is that jealousy telling you you want to do?

And that's sometimes hard for people to understand.

Nobody wants to admit to being jealous.

But in the privacy of their own essay,

if they think about what it is that somebody else has that they really want, it might give them some clues about what they think they can try for.

So Let's say that we've done the exercise.

You've written this out.

You have read it out loud.

You know, I'd love to hear how once you do that, because it does work.

Absolutely.

My life, the things that I've created in my life in the last 15 years are a function of that.

Now, you still have to show up every day and do the grueling, boring things of walking toward it as the small things start to appear in your life.

How do you balance kind of that dreaming big and imagining possibility

and

being realistic?

Or should we not even think about it in those terms?

I don't balance that at all.

Realism has to go away.

Has to go away.

If your dream is to win lotto,

that is where I think the line in the sand is in terms of realism.

That then becomes magical thinking because it's an external thing.

You can't make that happen.

You can't create that.

It's not a process of making.

So, other than that, I think dream big, dream wild.

I love that.

I absolutely love that.

So, no realism.

No realism, no probability, no process.

What do you think the most important thing that you can do after you write it down is to actually make it happen?

Read it and put it away.

Put it away.

Yeah, put it away.

Read it again in a year.

And when

things start to happen,

is it important to acknowledge that it's happening?

Is it important to claim that

these small signs are happening?

I wouldn't necessarily claim it in a public way.

I think it's

a lovely way to reassure yourself.

that you've done something meaningful for yourself and you can appreciate that in yourself.

but i think it's also a very

private soulful experience in a lot of ways because it's not about humble brag or brag or comparison it's really about a manifestation and i think there's something

really quietly powerful in that you know i'm thinking a lot even about my mother-in-law who's 86 Because what she says all the time is she wants to make it to everybody's wedding.

And when she says everybody, she's talking if they choose to get married, but she would like to make it to all nine of her grandkids' wedding.

Yeah.

And it's one of the reasons why she walks like five miles a day.

Good for her.

Wow.

But there is an

encoding and an imagining what's possible versus dismissing it by saying, well, the youngest is 20.

You don't know.

Are they going to, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And so the invitation here is to dwell in possibility, is to allow yourself to imagine.

And if somebody is listening right now and they're kind of still in that camp of, does this really work?

Is this for me?

Like, is this really for anybody of any age?

I don't see any restrictions to hope.

One thing that I do want to share with you

is that there's a common

statement that people make when they're to do something.

And people say, well, fake it till you make it.

And I don't believe in that.

I feel that that's very inauthentic.

I say make it until you make it.

If you fake it until you make it, you're pretending.

If you're working at making it until you make it, you're

part of the process.

You're intentional.

You're designing your life when you're making it until you make it.

And that for me, between making it until you make it and being happiest making things feels like where the threads of my life dovetail.

And where this process actually helps you

to start today

making what you want.

You know, you've been teaching this process for years.

What have some of the students that you've taught this design your life process to written to you years later to say?

So I've been doing this now with for about 45, 50 classes with an average of 18 to 25 students per class.

And I get emails, notes, I sometimes get cards in the mail

where

they share how this exercise

created their lives.

Because they designed this essay and wrote this essay with their hearts open.

And five, eight, 10, 12, 15 years later, they've manifested either the most important things

or everything,

or it gave them a sense of what they didn't want and then what they could redesign because redesigning is as much fun as designing in a lot of ways.

And

makes my heart sing.

It's beautiful.

It's so beautiful.

And then those people

can help other people do it.

And so on and so on and so on.

Well, that's why I'm so excited that you're here because I see this conversation as an invitation to not only allow you to dream and dwell in possibility and

take

the

invitation.

to intentionally design the life that you want seriously.

Yeah.

But I'm also super excited because,

you know, as you've been, as you watch this or as you listen to this, you're not only going to do it for yourself, but every person that you care about that you share it with,

you are sharing that invitation to be able to do that same process for somebody else.

Yes.

Yes.

And what an incredible gift that is.

Incredible.

So, Debbie, if the person

with us does just one thing

after hearing everything that you've shared with us, what do you think the most important thing to do after listening or watching this is?

I would say just give it a shot.

Give it a shot.

You'll learn something about yourself.

And isn't that the greatest gift we can give ourselves?

Well, thank you for giving us a

process and a very specific thing that we can do to help us do that.

My pleasure.

Debbie Melvin, what are your parting words?

Well, I'm going to

use this as an opportunity to ask a question I ask of myself almost every day.

If not now, when?

If not now, when?

You're incredible.

Well, you bring out the best in people, Mela, I have to tell you.

You really do.

You give people an opportunity to shine.

Thank you.

Well, that's all I wanted you to do.

I've admired your work for years.

You have been on the list of guests

since the beginning.

And so, I'm glad that we could get you here to Boston and have you teach this life-changing method and to learn from the lessons of your life and from what you've been teaching students.

And so, I just from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the person that's been listening or watching and spending time with us together, I just thank you.

Thank you for the work that you do.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for sharing this process with us, because I think everybody deserves to

design the life that they want.

I really, really hope so.

Well,

we now know how to do it.

And so I want to make sure to tell you, if not now, when.

And as your friend, I'm going to tell you today.

Today is the day that I want you to crack open the book and answer these questions for yourself, because there is no doubt in my mind, if you do, you will actually be creating the life that you want.

And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

And because of everything that Professor Debbie Million taught you today, you now have the roadmap to do so.

So go do it.

And I will be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode.

I'll see you there.

Did that bump down at all?

There you go.

That's a little better.

Yep.

Here we go.

Hold that thought.

Because we had to, there was a camera here.

But you did great continuing to just go.

I don't know.

I don't think I'm doing the right.

It's on the right hand.

Oh, that's why.

I was doing left side.

Okay.

They designed it wrong.

That's why.

I'm a left.

There we go.

Try that.

There you go.

The hair.

Is it frizzed up?

No, it looks great.

Do I look like Monica?

Great friends.

I'm going to tell you what.

Our content does better the worse I look.

We look like this is a grocery store.

So

absolutely.

This is how I look when I'm walking my dogs.

Yes.

My daughters literally will call me and be like, why did you post that video?

I'm like, I just went to the store looking like that.

Wow.

Thank you.

So brilliant.

Yeah.

Oh, and one more thing.

And no, this is not a blooper.

This is the legal language.

You know.

what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

I'm just your friend.

I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Got it?

Good.

I'll see you in the next episode.

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This is a real good story about Drew, a real United Airlines customer.

After almost four years of treatment, I was finally cancer-free.

My mom's like, Where do you want to go to celebrate?

I'm like, Let's go somewhere tropical.

And then Pilot hopped on the intercom and started talking about me.

And I was like, What is going on here?

My wife be cancer too, and I wanted to celebrate his special moment.

That's Bill, a real United pilot.

We brought him drinks and donuts.

We all signed a card.

I was smiling ear to ear.

Best flight ever, for sure.

That's how good leads the way.