The Moth Radio Hour: Defining Moments

Speaker 1 moth is supported by AstraZeneca. AstraZeneca is committed to spreading awareness of a condition called hereditary transthyroidin-mediated amyloidosis, or HATTR.

Speaker 1 This condition can cause polyneuropathy, like nerve pain or numbness, heart failure or irregular rhythm, and gastrointestinal issues.

Speaker 1 HATTR is often underdiagnosed and can be passed down to loved ones. Many of us have stories about family legacies passed down through generations.

Speaker 1 When I was five, my mother sewed me a classic clown costume, red and yellow with a pointy hat. It's since been worn by my sister, three cousins, and four of our children.

Speaker 1 I'm so happy this piece of my childhood lives on with no end in sight. Genetic conditions like HATTR shouldn't dominate our stories.

Speaker 1 Thanks to the efforts of AstraZeneca, there are treatment options so more patients can choose the legacies they share.

Speaker 1 This year, the Moth will partner with AstraZeneca to shine a light on the stories of those living with HATTR. Learn more at www.myattrroadmap.com.

Speaker 1 You know that feeling when someone asks you how much your 401k is worth or how many financial accounts you even have and you realize you're not totally sure?

Speaker 1 The first time that happened to me, I had two thoughts. One, rude.
Two, oh my goodness, how could I not know?

Speaker 1 Well, you can feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone.

Speaker 1 Once I started using Monarch, I found my checking account from college. Listen, I had very little money in college.
It was just one more account clouding my financial life, and I had to let it go.

Speaker 1 Monarch gives me the most simple, clear view of my personal finances. The past is just the past now.
Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks.

Speaker 1 Use code MOTH at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code MOTH.

Speaker 3 This is a Moth Radio Hour. I'm your host, Jodi Powell.

Speaker 3 In this hour, we're hearing all about turning points, the moments when you make a game-changing decision and and decide who you're going to be right now or for the rest of your life.

Speaker 3 Our first story comes from Jeff Birdsaw. Jeff told this at a Seattle Story Slum where KUOW is our radio partner.

Speaker 4 In college I led wilderness canoe trips in the Boundary Waters canoe area of Minnesota to Camp Widgeewagon. Try saying that three times quickly.

Speaker 4 And as a novice, I quickly learned that carrying large canoes and Duluth packs across massive portages between beautiful lakes required a lot of strength.

Speaker 4 And so the desire to have a team of youth that were able to complete this task was highly desired.

Speaker 4 And right before a trip started, you gathered with the other staff and you got a packet of information about each of the campers, medical forms and parental notes.

Speaker 4 And the guy next to me was opening up his packet and he had every one of his youth, like at 12 years old, over six feet tall, could bench pass like 200 pounds.

Speaker 3 He was ecstatic.

Speaker 4 I opened up my pack and I had the first one,

Speaker 4 Sam.

Speaker 4 And Sam

Speaker 4 just had a hernia operation.

Speaker 4 He was 4'2,

Speaker 4 and he wasn't allowed to carry more than 10 pounds. My second camper, Ben,

Speaker 4 was allergic to most food groups, and if he was bitten by any one of five insects, he would instantly die.

Speaker 4 Then there was Frank, whose parent wrote,

Speaker 4 has an extreme fear of large, unfamiliar animals. Please do not let any of them near him.

Speaker 4 And my last one, Andy. who at age six had had brain surgery and was not operating at the same developmental level as his peers.

Speaker 4 And I'm very ashamed and embarrassed to admit, as an idiot 19-year-old boy, I was pretty disappointed. This was going to be an absolute bummer of a trip.

Speaker 4 And in my head, I'd already categorized the group in my own mind as the misfit group. And I wished desperately to have the group of kids that this guy next to me had who were all Hulk monsters.

Speaker 4 Well, my kids arrived, and they were a pretty decent group, they were pretty pleasant, but it was clear that the portaging was going to be really difficult. and

Speaker 4 after a couple days in camp they took us out to our portage drop that would be the portage to our first lake of a start of our journey we got everybody loaded up with their duluth packs on and paddles in hand and sent them off on the trail to the lake and i picked up then a pack myself and flipped the canoe a wood canvas canoe onto my shoulders those were the days

Speaker 4 and I headed out quickly across the trail overtaking everybody and getting to the end of the lake where I dumped the canoe and headed back for the second canoe, passing all the kids in turn and encouraging them, go, you're doing great.

Speaker 4 But where was Andy?

Speaker 4 Losing a camper was frowned upon

Speaker 4 by the camp director.

Speaker 4 I made it all the way back to the start of the portage. And there I heard some crying in the woods, and I found Andy sitting on a log, tears streaming down his mud-streaked face.

Speaker 4 and now I'm panicked. There was no training in my two-week staff training to prepare me for crying children.

Speaker 4 What am I supposed to do? I had no idea. So I sat down next to Andy and just asked him what was going on.
And he said, I miss my mom.

Speaker 4 The tears are coming down.

Speaker 4 And I said, That's okay, Andy. I miss my mom too.

Speaker 4 I was lying though, but

Speaker 4 I thought it was important at that point to make that point.

Speaker 4 Eventually he calmed down and I encouraged him to put his pack back on. I flipped the other canoe up on my shoulders and we walked down the trail.
And I'm still a wreck.

Speaker 4 The other kids are going to eat him alive. I had been bullied a lot as a kid.
I knew what kids were capable of.

Speaker 4 I'm trying to strategize, but it's hard to strategize carrying an 80-pound canoe on your shoulders, apparently. I came up with nothing, and pretty soon we were at the end of the portage.

Speaker 4 And I was wondering, too, the whole way along,

Speaker 4 what's going on with the other kids? Are they still alive? It had some kind of Lord of the Flies thing unfolded at the end of the portage.

Speaker 4 But when we got there, they were all sitting in a circle eating trail mix.

Speaker 4 And they saw Andy come up, and they could quickly, clearly see that there was a problem. And they asked Andy, What's wrong? Oh no, I thought, here we go.

Speaker 4 And he said, I miss my mom. And he started crying all over again.

Speaker 4 And then they said to him, it's okay.

Speaker 4 We miss our moms too.

Speaker 4 Then pretty much all of us were crying.

Speaker 4 And I am still freaking out. I want to relax, but I'm wondering, like, are we ever going to make it to the campsite

Speaker 4 by dark? And are we going to sit here the rest of our lives? I was, you know, inexperienced. And finally, I relaxed into it, realizing the specialness of the moment.
And

Speaker 4 they ate their gorp and trail mix and passed it around and shared about their homes and their moms and their families, crying most of the time. And then pretty soon they just looked at me and said,

Speaker 4 Jeff, are we going to go canoeing or what?

Speaker 4 I'm like, hey, okay, let's go.

Speaker 4 And we went. And we didn't go far.
And we didn't go fast.

Speaker 4 And the portages were hard. The packs were always heavy and a big burden.

Speaker 4 But this was a fantastic trip. The kids cared for each other deeply.
They had incredible compassion. They had each other's backs the whole time.
There was lots of laughter and love.

Speaker 4 The next week, I got the group I thought I wanted. They were all ape men who could carry canoes in one finger at age 12.

Speaker 4 The packs felt light and we went many, many miles. But they were tormenting each other.
They had huge egos. They were not compassionate.
The trip sucked and I longed for my first group of guys.

Speaker 4 That first group of guys taught me something invaluable.

Speaker 4 That my burden of baggage isn't necessarily the 80-pound canoe bearing down on my shoulders, ripping my shoulder blades to shreds.

Speaker 4 It's the burden of baggage in my mind, my biases, my preconceived notions about what is going to be successful, about misperceptions that cause myself harm and others harm.

Speaker 4 And for that lesson of life, those beautiful boys that I still remember to this day, I am eternally grateful. Thank you.

Speaker 3 That was Jeff Birdsaw.

Speaker 3 Jeff spent decades immersed in environmental and outdoor education. These days, he leads workshops for national service programs and universities across the country.

Speaker 3 He has experienced directing two AmeriCorps programs and co-founded the Wilderness Volunteer Corps.

Speaker 3 Jeff is now based in Seattle and recently discovered a new passion for storytelling.

Speaker 3 Our next story about big decisions comes from Lauren Allen. Lauren also told this story in Seattle at a grand slam at Town Hall.
Here's Lauren live at the moth.

Speaker 7 So when I was in high school, I was cut from the softball team,

Speaker 7 which was pretty sad, but it was even worse because I was the only person who was cut from the softball team.

Speaker 7 Which implies they had enough room, but they just really didn't want me.

Speaker 7 And this came to me as a surprise because I had played a lot of pitch and catch with my dad, and he told me I had a good arm.

Speaker 7 But when I got to tryouts, it was the first time I'd ever thrown a softball, and I found a softball is very different from a baseball. And although I could throw it really hard, I couldn't aim it.

Speaker 7 So the third time I threw it really hard right past my coach's face. She decided to cut me.
And she said, we love your enthusiasm, Lauren, but we are afraid you will hurt someone

Speaker 7 or yourself.

Speaker 7 So this was devastating for me because I had really wanted to be good at something. I believed that self-esteem needed to be earned.

Speaker 7 And at that point in my life, I was bad at everything, so I felt like crap about myself.

Speaker 7 But I didn't give up on sports because I saw a movie called Cool Runnings.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 in this movie, a group of unlikely Jamaican men bond together and end up making a bobsled team that goes all the way to the Olympics. Nobody thought it could happen.

Speaker 7 And I believed I was the Jamaican bobsled team.

Speaker 7 I just hadn't found my sport yet. But if I kept trying, I was sure to succeed against all odds.

Speaker 7 So I found out that the track team didn't make cuts. I thought, this is great.

Speaker 7 This is going to be my sport.

Speaker 7 Flash forward to my very first race of my very first track meet. It's indoors because I grew up in Buffalo and it was blizzarding outside.

Speaker 7 So there's a balcony above the track where all the other kids are looking down at me and my dad's there too, which is not scary at all.

Speaker 7 And then I look around beside me and I see all the other girls that are going to run against me and they are much more fit than me and they look like they have a lot more self-esteem than me.

Speaker 7 So I try to pump myself up and I think of the pep talk from Cool Runnings. I see pride.
I see power. I see a badass mother who don't take no crap off of nobody.

Speaker 7 And then I start to sprint and I'm flying.

Speaker 7 And it's amazing because the other girls are behind me. And I feel like this is the first time I'm good at something.
And I round the bend and I'm coming back to the finish line.

Speaker 7 And the girls start gaining on me. So I clench my butt cheeks.

Speaker 7 And I go into turbo mode.

Speaker 7 And I make it across the finish line just in time to hear my coach say nine more laps Alan

Speaker 7 because I was running the mile event

Speaker 7 and the other girls soon passed me because they knew something about pacing

Speaker 7 and I desperately tried to catch up with them but then I felt it a sharp pain in my side. I had a horrible cramp.

Speaker 7 So I raised my arm to try to stretch it out, but that was difficult to sustain while I was running, so I just kind of chicken-winged

Speaker 7 my way

Speaker 7 through two laps, three laps, four laps, five laps, six laps. I knew what lap I was on because my coach was at the starting line counting for me, and every time I crossed, he looked angrier with me.

Speaker 7 Halfway through my sixth lap, all the other girls finished.

Speaker 7 but I was determined to finish even by myself because I remembered the dramatic conclusion to cool runnings

Speaker 7 where the bobsled tips over and the men knowing they're going to lose pick it up onto their shoulders and they finish with dignity and I was going to be like them

Speaker 7 So I rounded the corner and I'm coming back to the start line and that's when I saw my coach walking away

Speaker 7 because he had given up on me.

Speaker 7 And that's when I started to cry.

Speaker 7 And I thought about everybody looking down at me from the balconies above, my dad being disappointed in me. I thought about the fact that I was really bad at running

Speaker 7 and I was stupid to try.

Speaker 7 And all the other kids were probably angry with me for wasting their time.

Speaker 7 And it was a really long lap because because it's difficult to run while you're sobbing.

Speaker 7 But eventually I made it to the starting line again and I saw a lady there and I asked her, what lap am I on?

Speaker 7 And she looked at me and she said, I think you've done enough.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 7 I came off the track prematurely. I went upstairs and I found my dad

Speaker 7 and

Speaker 7 I was kind of afraid, but he gave me a big hug and he said, good effort.

Speaker 7 And that was my big break into mediocrity.

Speaker 7 Because I realized, you know, my dad didn't really care that I was slow and the other kids didn't care either.

Speaker 7 I also eventually realized that I liked running, although I continued to be horrible at it for the next 14 years.

Speaker 7 Power workers, walkers pass me at Green Lake all the time.

Speaker 7 But I enjoy it, and just because you're really bad at something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Speaker 7 And these days, even though I never found a sport I could crush at,

Speaker 7 these days when I look into the mirror, I see pride, I see power,

Speaker 7 and I see a woman who is fabulously average.

Speaker 5 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That was Lauren Allen.

Speaker 3 Lauren says she's afraid of most things, but she does them anyway, even if it's often a little foolish. She used to climb mountains until one of those mountains broke her foot.

Speaker 3 Now, she swims with jellyfish and teaches high school science. Curious which one is scarier? For that answer, visit themoth.org.

Speaker 3 In a moment, we step into the world of love and relationships, where there are countless crossroads. That's when the moth radio hour continues.

Speaker 6 The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 The holidays are coming, the air is crisp, and there's nothing better than layers that feel as good as they look. That's why I'm loving Quints this season.

Speaker 2 Their sweaters, outerwear, and everyday essentials make holiday dressing and gifting so effortless. Quince has it all.

Speaker 2 $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters, denim that never goes out of style, and down outerwear built to handle the season. All for 50% less than similar brands.
I've been living in their cashmere sweaters.

Speaker 2 So cozy and flattering. And the Italian suede shopper tote is perfect for holiday traveling.
It's become my go-to bag for flights.

Speaker 2 Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished, and last. From Quince.
Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself.

Speaker 2 Go to quince.com slash moth for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too.
That's q-u-in-ce-e.com slash moth to get free shipping and 365-day returns.

Speaker 2 Quince.com slash moth.

Speaker 9 Between holiday shopping, late nights, and all those festive treats, it's easy to let your wellness slip. That's why I rely on Groons to keep me feeling my best this season.

Speaker 9 Each snack pack has six grams of prebiotic fiber, three times the dietary fiber of leading greens, powders, and more than two cups of broccoli.

Speaker 9 Groons supports gut health, immunity, energy, cognition, and even beauty. It's vegan, nut-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, and free of artificial colors and flavors.

Speaker 9 And yes, Groon's ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. There's even a groons kids version, so the little ones get comprehensive nutrition too.

Speaker 9 Get up to 52% off with code Moth at groons.co.

Speaker 9 That's codemoth at gru ns.co.

Speaker 9 I used to worry about break-ins until I installed SimplySafe. Traditional security systems only react after something happens, but with SimplySafe, you can stop intruders before they get inside.

Speaker 9 The Active Guard Outdoor Protection uses AI-powered cameras to detect threats outside and alert real security agents immediately.

Speaker 9 These agents can confront intruders, sound a loud siren, flash a spotlight, and notify police all in real time. You don't have to be home and you don't have to lift a finger.

Speaker 9 With no long-term contracts, no hidden fees, and a 60-day money-back guarantee, it's no wonder SimplySafe has been named the best home security system by U.S.

Speaker 9 News and World Report for five years running. Don't miss out on Simply Safe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off.

Speaker 9 Right now, our listeners can save 60% off on a SimplySafe home security system at simplysafe.com/slash mothpod. That's simply safe.com/slash mothpod.
There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Speaker 3 This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jodi Powell.
In this hour, we're hearing stories of defining moments, taking a leap or walking away and hoping the choice made was indeed the right one.

Speaker 3 Our next storyteller is Madeleine Potts. Like our last two stories, Madeline told this at our Seattle Story Slide.
Here's Madeline, live at the moment.

Speaker 12 It was the 70s.

Speaker 12 I'm that old. And I was a young

Speaker 12 single mom.

Speaker 12 And I was out exploring my new neighborhood. I came across a little cooperative art gallery and went in.
And there, amid the weavings and the watercolors and the handmade pottery mugs

Speaker 12 was some of the most bizarre sculpture I had ever seen. Great, big, alarming, mixed media, humanoid pieces that reeked of social commentary.
And I thought,

Speaker 12 who in their right mind would ever want to have anything like this?

Speaker 12 And then the artist walked over.

Speaker 11 He was drop dead gorgeous.

Speaker 12 And I said,

Speaker 12 how much is that piece? I'd like to buy it.

Speaker 12 It wasn't for sale. But that's how I met my husband, Robert.

Speaker 12 We fell in love. I married him.
I got the artist and the art. It was kind of like a buy one, get one free.

Speaker 12 And about a year into our relationship, he got asked to do a one-man show. Oh, he was brimming with ideas.
And he said, I want to do this piece that needs female parts.

Speaker 12 Can I do some body casting on you?

Speaker 11 Sure, honey.

Speaker 12 What you need?

Speaker 12 I need your feet.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 12 And your legs. Okay.

Speaker 12 And your your arms.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 12 And your torso.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 12 And your head.

Speaker 12 And I realized he was going to completely encase me in plaster of Paris.

Speaker 12 And I said,

Speaker 10 okay.

Speaker 12 Because everyone knows you have to sacrifice for art. So the very next morning, he dropped our little one off at her half-day nursery, and we went right into the studio.

Speaker 12 He had these gauze bandages impregnated with plaster. He put Bob Marley on the record player.
He positioned me, he got to work, he did my legs, he did my arms, he did my torso.

Speaker 12 And when he got to my head,

Speaker 12 I had a moment where I thought,

Speaker 12 maybe this isn't such a good idea.

Speaker 12 but it was for art.

Speaker 12 And I said nothing while he bandaged up my head, and I said nothing as he draped that plaster across my face, and I said nothing until I couldn't say anything, because the only parts of my body left visible were my eyeballs and my nostrils.

Speaker 12 And then he whipped two straws out of his pocket,

Speaker 12 positioned them up my nose, pattied them into place with plaster, and the phone rang.

Speaker 12 It was the half-day nursery. We were late picking up my little girl.
And he said to me, It's only two blocks away. I'll take the car.

Speaker 11 I'll go get her.

Speaker 13 I'll be back right away. Will you be okay?

Speaker 12 And I said,

Speaker 13 Which of course meant, I won't be okay.

Speaker 11 Don't go.

Speaker 12 But what Robert heard was,

Speaker 13 I will be okay,

Speaker 5 just go.

Speaker 11 And he was gone.

Speaker 12 And there I was,

Speaker 11 alone with Bob Marley encased in plaster of Paris.

Speaker 12 But Bob was singing, don't worry. about it then.

Speaker 12 You know, it was the 70s. I thought the universe was talking to me through my record player.

Speaker 11 And very quickly, though, I was not okay.

Speaker 12 I started sweating under that cast. Tears started building up behind my eyes.
My heart started pounding. My breathing was getting shallow.

Speaker 12 I was getting little body twitches underneath that cast, and then my nose started to itch. And instinctively, I did something.
The only only thing I could do I kind of snorted out

Speaker 12 and those two straws went flying out of my nose

Speaker 12 and I could feel plaster filling in where nothing had tingled before and I thought

Speaker 12 this is the end of my life

Speaker 12 I'm going to die

Speaker 12 My little girl is going to come home and instead of having a mommy, she's going to have a mommy.

Speaker 11 But just then,

Speaker 11 my husband came running in.

Speaker 12 He saw I was in trouble. He cut me out of the cast.
And you know what? It was salvageable. He finished the piece.

Speaker 12 It became the major work of his show. And at the opening, I thought,

Speaker 12 why did I submit myself to that?

Speaker 12 And of course I answered, it was for art.

Speaker 12 But now it's decades later and I know it wasn't about art. It was only about love.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That was Madeleine Potts. At 82, Madeleine is still active telling stories with her local and state guilds.

Speaker 3 Sadly, her husband passed away, but he remains a beautiful and eccentric legend among their children and grandchildren.

Speaker 3 She said his craftsmanship was impeccable and still serves as the standard they all aspire to.

Speaker 3 Our next story is also from the Seattle Slams, and it comes from Gene Cardeni.

Speaker 8 Five years ago, my partner became obsessed with this guy. He was a former student of hers.
She's a college professor. And they hadn't seen each other in like 10 years.

Speaker 8 And while I was away at a family funeral, she decided to plan and have dinner with him.

Speaker 8 And from the way she talked about him, I could tell that she was considering leaving me for him. And we had been together for nine years at this point, and she had just spent a couple hours with him.

Speaker 8 And so I asked, Are you sure you want to do this you don't even know this guy and she said but I do we both make art and we both owned tercels

Speaker 8 and then she went on to tell me how he loved cars Toyotas in particular and how he still owned and drove a tercel

Speaker 8 and the next day she told me she decided that she would stay with me And I said, well, you still need to tell this guy about me if you're going to communicate with him.

Speaker 8 And the day after that, she told me that she did communicate with him and told him about me

Speaker 8 and you know something just fell off and I asked can I see your text and this was the first time in nine years that I had asked to see any of her texts and she was reluctant to show me and I said is there something you need to tell me and she said no and I asked again and she said no again

Speaker 8 And the text read,

Speaker 8 I'm sorry I missed your call. I wasn't trying to date you.
I was just looking for friends and people with shared interests.

Speaker 8 And I'm flattered that I was considered a threat to the fidelity of your relationship.

Speaker 8 So unfortunately for me, he had rejected her. And I say unfortunately for me because we spent the next two years in couples therapy.
And for the first six months,

Speaker 8 I think in order to justify her actions, she just went on and on about how good looking this guy was and how amazing he was. And she even showed me pictures of him and his social media.

Speaker 8 And I couldn't help but think that this guy was better than me

Speaker 8 and that maybe I was the reason that our relationship was failing.

Speaker 8 And we eventually split up. And then just last year, last May, I was sitting at a coffee shop and I was at the parking lot across the street.
I see this Turcell pull up.

Speaker 8 And it's this guy. And I see him get out of the car and he's with a woman I don't recognize.
And they walk over

Speaker 8 to the establishment across the street. And I turn to my friend and say, something big is about to happen.

Speaker 8 And about 10 or 15 minutes later, I decide, okay, it's time for me to go over there and experience this guy.

Speaker 8 How amazing he is and how good looking. Just witness how good looking he is.

Speaker 8 So I walked over there and somehow they're still at the back of the line and I'm right behind him and he has no idea who I am. This guy who has made such a big impact on my life.

Speaker 8 And a Toyota drives by and he says to the woman, they call that voodoo blue.

Speaker 8 Toyotas have weird names for the colors of their cars. And I'm like, this is the guy?

Speaker 8 And he's standing there with his stained, sweat-stained ball cap. his gray t-shirt untucked and a flannel covering like a little bit of a beer belly and I'm like this is the guy and

Speaker 8 and then I strike up a conversation with them

Speaker 8 and we talk about the weather local events and how they like to watch Ted Lasso

Speaker 8 and then I realize my failed relationship had not not only had nothing to do with me but it had nothing to do with him either

Speaker 8 And then a couple months go by, and I'm at the grocery store sitting in my car in the parking lot, and I I see him pull up in his Toyota and I think he's alone this time.

Speaker 8 Now's my chance to get some answers and get some closure to some of these questions I had. I could ask him, like, what did she say on that message? And did you actually like her?

Speaker 8 But then I thought, no, I can't do this. This is too weird.
But then it was my chance, my one and only chance. So I ran in there and I looked for him and I found him in the moisturizer aisle.

Speaker 8 And he's holding a bottle of moisturizer, and I'm standing right next to him, pretending to look at the lip balms. And in my head, I'm thinking, I'm going to get closure now.

Speaker 8 I'm going to get these answers, and I'm finally going to figure out how, what happened here.

Speaker 8 And then he pulls out his reading glasses, and I'm thinking about his internal dialogue.

Speaker 8 Water. Glycerin.

Speaker 8 Petroleum.

Speaker 8 And then all of a sudden, that fire I had inside me, where I needed closure and I needed these answers from this guy,

Speaker 8 just died.

Speaker 8 And I realized as I stood there that the answers I needed weren't going to come from an external source, but they had to come from me.

Speaker 8 And the answer was that this didn't matter. And I realized that whatever he had to say to me in that moment wasn't going to make me feel better or worse.
So I turned and walked away. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Jean Cardeno is a musician and computer programmer based in Boise, Idaho.

Speaker 3 She has always appreciated listening to people tell their true personal stories, but has recently discovered the challenge of crafting her own.

Speaker 3 After telling this story, Jean took a solo road trip in her Silver Nissan NV200 van with porthole windows for some self-exploration and writing.

Speaker 3 She also wants us to know she no longer cringes at the sight of a Toyota Turcell.

Speaker 3 After the break, we hear about meaningful moments with treasured books and an unlikely person takes us clubbing when the moth radio hour continues.

Speaker 6 The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Today's show is sponsored by Alma. I know I'm not the only one who turns to the internet when I'm struggling.

Speaker 1 It feels like there are so many answers, from how to learn the ukulele to how to improve my mental health.

Speaker 1 But what I've come to realize is that while I can use the internet to strum a stunted version of La Vian Rose, when it comes to taking care of my mind, there's no replacement for real human relationships.

Speaker 1 But even finding a therapist can feel like an inevitable online black hole.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm so happy to share that Alma makes it easy to connect with an experienced therapist, a real person who can listen, understand, and support you through your specific challenges.

Speaker 1 You don't have to be stuck with the first available person. Trust me, it's important to find someone you click with.

Speaker 1 They can be nice, they can be smart, they can let you bring your chihuahua, true story, but they also have to be someone who really gets you uniquely.

Speaker 1 When you browse Alma's online directory, you can filter by the qualities that matter to you. Then book free 15-minute consultations with the therapists you're interested in seeing.

Speaker 1 This way, you can find someone you connect with on a personal level and see real improvements in your mental health with their support. Better with people, better with Alma.

Speaker 1 Visit helloalma.com/slash moth to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

Speaker 1 That's hello

Speaker 1 ma dot com/slash O T H. The holidays are noisy, busy, a little chaotic, but nothing beats the quiet joy of cozy.

Speaker 1 And that's exactly what Bombas brings with socks, slippers, tees, and more that feel like an instant reset. Bombas is the most cozy.

Speaker 1 Like many of us, Bombas socks were my way in, but now I want everything Bombas. Slippers, tees, everything.

Speaker 1 They also make gifting ridiculously easy. Need something for the runner in your life? Bombas running socks.
For the neighbor's new baby, baby bombas that that actually stay on tiny feet.

Speaker 1 Even mom's mysterious new ski lodge friend, Bombas has them covered with slippers, ski socks, or both. And the best part? I don't like to shop just to buy.
Where's the meaning in that?

Speaker 1 That's why I love that for every single item you buy, Bombas donates one to someone facing homelessness. So your gift of cozy gives someone else a little comfort.

Speaker 1 Head over to bombas.com/slash moth and use code MOTH for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombbas.com/slash slash moth code moth at checkout.

Speaker 14 What's up, world? It's Von Miller, Super Bowl MVP, chicken farmer, and now host of Free Range. This is a show where I go off the field and off the script.

Speaker 14 We're talking what's hot in music, film, trending news, and everything blowing up your feet. If you love football, you'll feel at home.

Speaker 14 But if you're here for the vibes, the internet deep dives, the conversation, this is your podcast. Join me every Wednesday.

Speaker 14 Follow and listen to Free Range with me, Von Miller, everywhere you get your podcast.

Speaker 3 This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jodi Powell.
Our next story comes from Duncan Hills. Duncan told this at a Louisiana story slam where New Orleans Public Radio is our media partner.

Speaker 15 Okay,

Speaker 15 so

Speaker 15 when my parents retired,

Speaker 15 my mother took up fairly normal retiree hobbies like painting and knitting, that kind of thing. But

Speaker 15 my dad decided to take up nightclubbing.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 15 I was away at the time. I initially found out about this while I was traveling in India.

Speaker 15 And I had gone to India because my dad was actually born in India originally. And I was in an internet cafe.
I don't know if any of you remember those old things, but I was in an internet cafe.

Speaker 15 And I got this email from my dad, and he said, look, darling, I'm on dsi.com. And I was like, what the hell is dsi.com? It was don'tstayin.com.

Speaker 15 And it was kind of in the days before Facebook really got big. It was kind of a site where people would post clubbing photos and such.

Speaker 15 And anyway, so there's a photo of him, of my dad, in his 70s, next to another guy of similar age in this nightclub. And so I turned to my friend, John, and I said, mate, look at this.

Speaker 15 And he leaned over and I was like, my dad, since we've been away, has gotten into bloody nightclubbing.

Speaker 15 So my friend leans over and he goes, which one's your dad? And I said, well, my dad's called Ian, and he's the one on the left. He's the guy with only one arm.

Speaker 15 And my dad had been born in India and he'd caught polio at a very young age. So technically he has two arms, but his left arm didn't work.

Speaker 15 He calls himself the one-arm bandit and that sort of thing. So he's pretty cool with it.
So it's okay to laugh.

Speaker 15 But he's very cool about it. He's had 70 years to get used to it.

Speaker 15 And anyway, so

Speaker 15 anyway, so he, my friend said, all right, so that's your dad with the one arm. And I said, yeah.
And he said, who's the other old guy next to him? I said, oh, that's his friend. He's also called Ian.

Speaker 15 He's only got one leg. And so these two guys,

Speaker 15 I was kind of a bit concerned that they were going clubbing together just because, you know, I worried that he might have a fall or something like that, you know.

Speaker 15 And I thought, I thought it'd just be a one-off. But then when I got back to the UK, it turned out it had become a regular thing.

Speaker 15 And so these two were going out clubbing together, tearing up the night. And my sisters and I, we were both a bit worried.

Speaker 15 We were like, you know, we were worried that he might be the kind of creepy old guy in a club kind of thing, and we were just worried about this.

Speaker 15 And then, um, but he seems to be making some friends, he made some really nice friends in and around the clubs, so we were less worried.

Speaker 15 But then it got to a point where he was going up to London to like Fabric, Ministry of Sound, like the big clubs.

Speaker 15 So, my sisters had to sit him down, me and my sisters, and we had to give my dad the drug chat. And we said,

Speaker 15 If anyone offers you white powders or little pills, just say no and stay in school. And so,

Speaker 15 so

Speaker 15 the good thing was, he didn't even drink when he went out. He would just drive into town.
And I thought, look, I'm going to go with him and just see what this is about.

Speaker 15 And so, I went out to this club called Mango's, which at the time was the kind of trendy house club in town. And

Speaker 15 it was the middle of bloody winter in England, and it's freezing cold. There's a queue around the block.
And dad just walks straight past the queue,

Speaker 15 up to the bouncer. The bouncer goes, Ian.

Speaker 15 is that Ian? Ian, you don't have to queue in you, come, mate. He's like, he's like, you must be Ian's son, mate.
You don't have to pay in you go. In you go.
And I'm like.

Speaker 15 So I walk into this club. I walk into this club.
My dad's shaking hands. He's high-fiving people.
The barman comes straight over, gives him a free drink. The DJ is like shouting him out.

Speaker 15 And I'm walking in. And I had this bizarre moment where I realized I'm never going to be as cool as my dad.

Speaker 15 And so

Speaker 15 we were still, it was good, but we were still worried about him, you know, he was getting older, and, you know, he's a bit less stable because he only has one arm and things.

Speaker 15 And so we were worried that he might have a fall or something, and he has broken his good arm twice, which is a bloody nightmare. As I'm sure you can imagine, he literally had to be spoon-fed.
And

Speaker 15 so we were kind of a bit concerned about him, but

Speaker 15 and eventually he did have a fall. He was in a rowdy club.
He got knocked over. He bashed his chin a bit, but he was okay.

Speaker 15 But he got a good telling off from my mother and his sister as a result of that. And so, it did, but this by this point, he was already hooked, and it was too late.

Speaker 15 So, he was getting a bit of a name for himself in the town, it's a town called Reading, it's not far from London. And he started

Speaker 15 going out a lot. He got interviewed by the local radio.

Speaker 15 Club promoters in the town started putting up posters, and they'd be like, big-name DJ in town with special guest, Ian Hills.

Speaker 15 He'd be like, For fuck's sake. And then, so then,

Speaker 15 then

Speaker 15 on his, well, then someone on Facebook started a fan page for my dad called the Ian Hills Appreciation Society, which has thousands of likes.

Speaker 15 And on his 79th birthday, he went out to a big club and there was a DJ playing called Artwork, who's a pretty big name in the UK.

Speaker 15 And in the middle of the night, they stopped the music and they called him up and they said, it would Ian Hills come up on the stage.

Speaker 15 And this club of 2,000 people sang him happy birthday, which was really sweet. But the problem was,

Speaker 15 this was now verging on obsession he was going out four times a week getting in at 5 a.m sleeping all day having multiple naps and mum was getting a bit fed up of this and it reached a crescendo it reached a head um at christmas 2020 it's the middle of this middle of covid and i was on my way back um home for christmas and um I got a call from Dan and he said, he said, oh, darling, I've got some bad news.

Speaker 15 And I said, what is it? And he said, I've got COVID. I was like, are you okay? And he said, yeah, I'm fine, but I'm in a bit of trouble.
And he said, I think your your mother's a bit pissed at me.

Speaker 15 And I said, I'm not supposed to. And I said, why? He said, I called it going to a nightclub.
And so

Speaker 15 she was obviously quite cross. I said, well, where are you? And he said,

Speaker 15 we're currently driving down to the South Coast where they have a little holiday place. And she was driving him.
And I said, no, stop the car. Get out of the bloody car.
And he said, no, it's fine.

Speaker 15 The windows are all down.

Speaker 5 I was like, oh, my God.

Speaker 15 So I was like, now mum definitely has COVID. And sure enough, four days later, she tested positive.
So dad gets banished to the south coast.

Speaker 15 Mum is not talking to him, and I have never known her so cross with him in 51 years of marriage. And anyway,

Speaker 15 they eventually, I said to her, look,

Speaker 15 she was upset because her quarantine then wasn't going to end until well after Christmas. So, I said, Look, I'm going to come home for Christmas.

Speaker 15 I don't, you know, I'm vaccinated, I'll be fine if I get the, if I get the disease. Um, and I said, I'm going to drive down on Christmas Day, I'm going to pick up dad and I'm going to bring him back.

Speaker 15 And so, at 5 a.m., I got up, and I am not a morning person, as my girlfriend will attest, I am not a morning person. So I drove all the way down to the south coast, picked up my dad, brought him back.

Speaker 15 My mum opened the door, face like thunder. She was furious at him.
But I said, come on, give him a hug, say sorry. They kissed and made up and we had a nice Christmas.

Speaker 15 And a few weeks later, it was his 80th birthday, and we had a kind of surprise Zoom call for him with all the friends and the family. And I managed to get in touch with a load of his clubbing mates.

Speaker 15 And we had about 30 or 40 of his clubbing mates on this call. And they all sang him happy birthday, and he told all these really nice stories.

Speaker 15 And about halfway through, Dad, he was just in his element. And my mother turned to me and she said, I've made a decision.
I said, what? And she said,

Speaker 15 and this, bear in mind, comes after he had promised, he had vowed as part of his apology to never go back to the clubs. And she turned to me and she said,

Speaker 15 I think I should let him go back to the clubs.

Speaker 15 Because

Speaker 15 how can I take away from something from him that makes him so happy

Speaker 3 that was Duncan Hills Duncan originally hails from the UK but moved to the US to pursue his dream of working in human spaceflight arriving in the country with no job just a few weeks before the COVID pandemic began He now lives in New Orleans but grew up in a town called Reading in the UK.

Speaker 3 He said it's a town famous only for its jail, its train station and its terrible football team. And now apparently for his father, Ian.

Speaker 3 It was a no-brainer after listening to Duncan that we had to talk to Ian. So we met on Zoom for a quick chat.

Speaker 16 I have the pure pleasure here of talking to Duncan's father, Ian.

Speaker 17 Tell us a little bit about who you are.

Speaker 18 I'm 84 at the moment, Jodi.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 18 In terms of background i when i was at boarding school private school i was into music then quite different there was bill haley and the comets and and elvis presley all shook up and hound dog and all those things and i love music i used to dance around the kitchen and then i retired when i was at the age of 67 and duncan said dad i know you like music you like dancing Let me introduce you to some electronic dance music.

Speaker 18 So at the age of 67, I went to our local club and

Speaker 18 just

Speaker 18 asked to be let in. And everybody looked at me.
Who is this guy? I mean, he's about 50 years older than everybody else here. But I don't let those things put me off, Jodi, you know?

Speaker 18 So I just loved it. And I'm just...
having a good old dance, a bit of a great big boogie.

Speaker 18 And after a while, people came up and joined me because the blokes the men just stood around i said come on come and have a dance that's how it all started

Speaker 17 so so you mentioned that when you first walked into the club everybody was like this guy is much older than everybody that was in here was that intimidating for you or you just like brushed that off feel like

Speaker 18 I'm never intimidated, Josie.

Speaker 18 I was there to have fun. It wasn't any out too remote to have fun.
And when people could see that, people started joining in, you know?

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 18 that was the introduction to it. Funny little story, Jodi.

Speaker 18 So I stayed there till late in the evening. I mean, it was about two o'clock, you know, and I was still there dancing away.
And then at the door, my daughter

Speaker 18 came in with a friend and I said, oh, hello, Andrew, what are you doing?

Speaker 18 Well, she said, I had to tell my friends about you, Dad. Dancing wanted to come and see you.

Speaker 17 But hack it they couldn't hack it jodie they couldn't last and after half an hour they had to go you know earlier you said i don't get intimidated i just go out there and do that you know people might be listening to listen to duncan's story and then listen to you speaking they might be thinking i'm of a certain age or i'm a shy introverted person what would you say to them listening i used to say to people age is a number it doesn't matter what age you are you can enjoy if you're there to enjoy yourself you know.

Speaker 18 And people used to say to me, Ian, what are you on? You know, because I used to say that to three o'clock in the morning, are you on MDMA, or are you on Ket or Are you on Coke?

Speaker 18 Oh, no, no, I said it's something much more lethal than that. But what, what, what, what is it? It's called soda, water, and ice.

Speaker 18 And I used to say to them, Come on, guys,

Speaker 18 come on, guys, get up on the dance floor. And my motto was, rave, don't behave.

Speaker 18 Well, within limits, you know what I mean.

Speaker 17 Ian, do you still go clubbing?

Speaker 18 I don't know, no.

Speaker 18 But I've seen what they've introduced here.

Speaker 18 I'm very much tempted, because I haven't been clubbing now for the past two or three years, but I'm very much tempted because what they're starting here locally is day clubs.

Speaker 18 So you'll see me there at one of the day clubs, I'm sure, the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 6 Even if I don't last at the very end, yeah, I'll be there Leading the way.

Speaker 3 That was Duncan Hills' father, Ian Hills.

Speaker 3 Our final story on the theme of defining moments comes from Erro McClendon. Errol told this at a Chicago Story Slam where WBEZ is our radio partner.
Here's Errol, live at the mall.

Speaker 6 My father passed away two days after after Christmas, one day before my 14th birthday.

Speaker 6 He had gone into the hospital a week before Christmas with a massive heart attack and had a second one December 27th, and that was it.

Speaker 6 Now, I know the belief is that if you have a birthday soon after Christmas, you don't have much of a birthday, but that's not true if you're a spoiled only child.

Speaker 6 Now, I didn't have a lot of guests at my birthday party, but my parents and my grandparents were there, and we always a lot of packages.

Speaker 6 We had a beautiful chocolate sheet cake and ice cream, and it was kind of neat because if I didn't get what I wanted for Christmas, I knew three days later I would get those packages.

Speaker 6 But this particular year,

Speaker 6 because of my father's funeral, my mother wasn't able to do my usual birthday. My father had a huge funeral.

Speaker 6 He was a college administrator and everybody knew him throughout the state and beyond, so it was massive.

Speaker 6 So all my mother mother did was give me money to go downtown in Cleveland, Mississippi, with my friends and buy what I wanted.

Speaker 6 And for a 14-year-old, this was like hitting the lottery. I took my friends, I bought them lunch, I bought them some records, I bought my stuff.

Speaker 6 And I came home that night, and sitting in my room, I was showing my mother all of the stuff that I had purchased,

Speaker 6 and then it hit me

Speaker 6 and I started crying.

Speaker 6 I said, There were no books,

Speaker 6 There weren't any books.

Speaker 6 My father had started a tradition on my first birthday by giving me one book, The Pokey Little Puppy.

Speaker 6 The second birthday, I got two, The Little Engine That Could and The Little Red Hen.

Speaker 6 And this continued, adding books every year. By the time 6th, 7th, 8th birthday, I was getting this one box with a tag on it that said, Two Speed, that was my father's nickname for me, from Dad.

Speaker 6 My mother left the room, and she came back with a box with a tag on it, Too Speed from Dad. I opened it up, and there were 14 books.

Speaker 6 She didn't know how I would handle getting a present from my father after he was gone.

Speaker 6 Now, I usually read those books in two or three months. I was an avid reader, but this year I rationed them out.
I read one or two a month so they last for the the whole year.

Speaker 6 It was the last box.

Speaker 6 On my 15th birthday, I came downstairs. There were the presents, there was a sheet cake, there was the ice cream,

Speaker 6 and there was a box with a tag on it, Two Speed from Dad.

Speaker 6 And I opened it up and there were 15 books.

Speaker 6 When we moved to Cleveland to Delta State University in the second grade, my father had gone to the the library with the head of the Children and Young Adult Literature Division and prepaid for over 150 books.

Speaker 6 So I would have books all the way through my 18th birthday.

Speaker 6 So for the next three years, 16, 17, 18, there was always a box. with a tag, to speed from dad, that I would open.

Speaker 6 The 18th year, knowing that was the last box, I really did ration those books. And I held on to one for the day of my 19th birthday, the Scarlet Pimpernel.

Speaker 6 I came downstairs, there were the gifts, there was the cake, there was the ice cream.

Speaker 6 There was no box.

Speaker 6 And then I took the scarlet pimpernel and I went upstairs and I read it straight through through the afternoon, through the evening, into into the next morning. And when I finished it,

Speaker 6 I cried myself to sleep, holding it to my chest.

Speaker 6 Five years later, that's when I said goodbye to my father.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That was Errol McClendon. By day, Errol is a patient educator where he plays the part of a patient for students in the medical field to help them improve their communication skills.

Speaker 3 He got into this career after a 25-year run as a travel agent, a job that became obsolete with the rise of the internet.

Speaker 3 Outside of work, he's also a tarot card reader, a Reiki healer, and a paranormal investigator.

Speaker 3 Erol still loves reading.

Speaker 3 When he reads a book with a deceptively simple narrative, but leaves him with a great universal wisdom, he can't help but think it's one his father would have placed in one of those boxes today.

Speaker 3 And that's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. Thank you to our storytellers and all of the moth staff and crew, and to you for listening.
I hope you'll join us next time.

Speaker 6 This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Jodi Powell, who also hosted. Co-producer is Vicki Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch.

Speaker 6 Additional Grand Slam coaching by Larry Rosen.

Speaker 6 The rest of the Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Sarah Austin Janess, Kate Tellers, Marina Cluche, Leanne Gulley, Suzanne Rust, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Patricia Urenia.

Speaker 6 Moth's stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift.

Speaker 6 Other music in this hour from Delvon Lamar Organ Trio, Hermanos Gutierrez, The Westerlies, and Ronan Osnode. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts.

Speaker 6 The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Rhys-Dennis.

Speaker 6 For more about our podcast, for information on pitching It's Your Own Story, and to learn all about the moth, go to our website themoth.org.

Speaker 6 This is the story of the one. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority.
That's why he chooses Granger.

Speaker 6 Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Granger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs.

Speaker 6 And next-day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.
Granger for the ones who get it done.