The Moth Podcast: More Mothers

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Welcome to The Moth.

I'm Jennifer Hickson.

On this episode, Mothers, Part 2.

A few days ago, we aired an episode of The Moth Radio Hour called Mama Bears, where I shared some stories about the archetype of protective mothers.

Fierce or cuddly, mama bears are not to be messed with.

But for Mother's Day, we're looking at another side of motherhood, the overwhelming side.

First up, we've got Melanie Costriva, who told this story at a New Orleans story slam where the theme of the night was, appropriately enough, mama rules.

Here's Melanie, live at the mouse.

So when my first daughter was born, we brought her home from the hospital, all the advice I was told was, you gotta sleep when she sleeps.

Okay, great.

And I was sleep deprived.

She's a wonderful child.

She's a really hard baby, or I was a really difficult mom because I didn't know what I was doing.

And I was home in the afternoon.

I wasn't used to that.

And I wasn't used to all the sounds of my neighborhood.

I wasn't used to the congregation of men that met outside my window at 10 o'clock every morning to debate the saints' game or anything very loudly.

I wasn't used to the dogs barking.

I wasn't used to the trucks that came by.

And I was like, you're going to wake up, Avery.

Avery's my daughter.

But I really wasn't used to the ice cream man.

An ice cream man in my neighborhood comes around at three o'clock every day.

And I live uptown, and I'm going to sing you the song.

Anyways, and then at the end of the song, it goes, Hello?

Does anybody know?

All right.

So that's there.

Awesome.

So at three o'clock every day, I heard this.

And I was in this really weird state of like day and night, it was like just a concept I wasn't really in because Avery was like just woke up every hour.

So I was only sleeping like 45 minute increments and I would hear this song kind of like a crazy circus like

and I was like oh but when I would hear him I meant that another day had come by and I had survived another day as a mom.

And it was a marker for me to hear the ice cream man.

And we eventually made it through that season and Avery grew up to be a toddler and every day at three o'clock after her nap, she'd run to the front of the house and press her face up against the window to wave to the ice cream man.

And every single time, he rings his bell.

A couple years later, she's got a little sister.

Same thing, 3 o'clock.

Runs to the window, elbows her sister to see the ice cream man.

Waves, rings his bell.

And then a third little sister comes up and she does the same thing.

And she's the toughest of them all.

So she had a good spot.

And every single day, he'd ring his bell.

And so Avery turned five and I was like, you don't really need to take naps anymore.

So this is a time when you and I get to hang out while your sisters are sleeping, current events, politics.

But she really just wanted to see the ice cream man.

And I said, this is what we're going to do.

We're going to get all the quarters out of the jar of coins that we all have in our house.

And she's like, okay.

And we put all the quarters in this jar.

I was like, I want you to hold this jar.

And then the next time the ice cream man comes, we're going to go get ice cream.

And she goes, what?

And I was like, yeah, bud, we're gonna go get ice cream.

He has ice cream?

And I was like, bud, yeah, like, he's the ice cream man.

Oh, I just thought he really liked ice cream.

And I was like,

I'm either like the best mom or the worst mom.

I was like, how did I not get that?

It was like five years of just waving to this strange man who drove by every day and we called him the ice cream man.

So the day comes, the day comes and we hear his bell and we're like this is not a drill and we run out

and and the van the van that drove by was just like a solid van.

There was there was nothing on the side that we saw of the man my children wave to every day for five years.

And so I was like stop.

And he probably thinks I'm like such a cheap person because I never purchase anything.

And so I take Avery's hand and we walk to the other side of the truck and she sees the whole truck is covered in pictures of ice cream.

And she's like, Oh my gosh!

And she just like, she got something super like over-frozen.

And I got like a Choco Taco, and I gave him like all my coins.

And I was like, Thank you so much.

He goes, All right, see you later.

And he rang the bell.

And it is one of my favorite memories with my daughter.

So

this is a huge pivot, and I do apologize for the pivot.

A couple months ago, I experienced a pretty hard bruise to my mother

identity.

I had a miscarriage and it was really hard.

And I had one a few years ago as well.

And it's kind of this

process of maybe thinking, I'm not having these beautiful babies anymore and this might not be in the cards for me.

I had to have surgery and it was just a very difficult time and I kind of hibernated in my grief and I was surrounded by people that literally did everything for me in these days.

And Avery, she refers to this time as, as, yeah, but you were like sleeping for a few weeks.

I was like, yeah, mom had to sleep for a few weeks.

And

my first like entrance back into the world is, like, I didn't have to be a mom, basically, for a few weeks.

And my first entrance back into the world is I had to go to Costco and I had to get milk.

And you got to go to Costco with like a very specific list or else you're getting like all the nuts and the protein bars and the and every type of sparkly water.

And I'm just like pushing this cart and I'm like, no one knows what I'm going through here.

No one cares who I am.

And I felt so lonely while being surrounded by people eating like inch-sized pieces of cheese and like elbowing people for it.

Anyways, and so I finally get to the checkout and I'm just kind of hanging my head.

And I look up

and it's the ice cream man is checking out in front of me.

And I go around my cart and I go, hey.

And he goes, it's girl mom.

And I was like,

that's me.

That's me.

I said, ice cream man.

And he hugs me like we were at a family reunion.

And I just like, I like squeeze him.

I'm like, oh, ice cream man, you know.

And he was like, all right, see you later.

And I was like, bye, ice cream man.

And

in that moment, in two words, girl mom, he, he, like, kind of healed my bruised identity as a mom.

Just this thing I'd been going through.

And he, just like when Avery was a baby and I was sleep deprived, him and my life just oddly and he literally would have no idea this is even like a story of my life but he's part of it and just how he was when Avery was a baby he just let me know that I can do another day I can make it through another day because I am girl mom

That was Melanie Castriva.

Melanie is a teacher and librarian in New Orleans.

She's the mother of four daughters, married to a pastor, and has loved telling stories at the Moth for over 10 years.

You can find some of her other stories in our archive.

She writes when she can, with hopes of writing a book one day about motherhood and living in NOLA.

If you'd like to see photos of the ice cream truck, check out our website, themoth.org slash extras.

And what is it about that Pavlovian ice cream truck?

You can have the same exact creamsicles or rainbow rockets in your freezer, but your kids will tell you they just don't taste as good.

I think it's not the ice cream, it's the whole experience.

Up next, we've got a story about a mother from the perspective of a child.

Marie Denehy told this at a London Story Slam where the theme of the night was family.

Here's Marie live at the mosque.

My mum decided to call the police to tell them that my dad was in the IRA in the summer of 93.

Not only was he in the IRA, but he had enough bombs hidden in our loft to blow up the whole of London.

Now, there's never a good time for your mum to tell the police that your Irish father is an active member of a terrorist organisation,

but that was a particularly bad time.

For all of you that aren't familiar with the inner workings of the IRA, this was the year

that they'd hidden bombs in bins in Camden and had stormed through the streets of Bishopsgate with an armed tank injuring 44 civilians.

London was on high alert.

Our house was raided pretty much before my mum could even hang up the phone.

I remember them storming through the house searching high and low but they found nothing, not even a stick of dynamite.

Looking back now it was obvious that the house was going to be clean.

It all made sense now.

The hours that my mum had spent thinking that the television was talking to her, the knives she gave to us for protection when she was paranoid.

My dad wasn't in the IRA.

My mum had postnatal depression and it had developed into psychosis.

It probably wouldn't have developed into psychosis if someone had intervened.

Someone like the midwife who came to see her after my younger brother was born.

The midwife who, when my mum sat there crying uncontrollably, said to her, what have you got to be upset about?

You've got a good husband, he's got a nice job, and you've got a three-bed semi in zone four.

My mum was so embarrassed, she didn't say anything to anybody else and slowly descended into madness.

I remember the countless times she was sectioned after that, the weekends we had playing in secure mental health wards and retreats.

I remember the countless takeaways that my dad bought for us because he couldn't cook when she was away, and the times that they tried and failed to cure her with electric shock treatment.

Years passed, and she did recover, and she even began to laugh about that phone call she made back in 93.

And even though my dad was never in the IRA,

the police kept our house under surveillance for years.

I remember the sound of the house phone clicking when we picked it up to make a phone call.

And I remember asking her, who's that guy?

Stood outside the house hanging off a telephone pole with binoculars looking into our house?

My mum would just look at me and say, Jesus, sure, don't worry about him.

Sure, he's just watching the house because I told them that your dad was in the IRE when I went mad.

She was so casual about it, she probably would have made him a cup of tea.

Over 20 years have passed since that phone call back in 1993, And apart from a relapse back in 2011, when my dad died, she remains well.

The police surveillance has long since stopped on her house.

And to be honest, I don't think they'd have much to report on now, watching her go to mass from her retirement flat in Watford.

And I look back and I remember feeling so embarrassed and so ashamed of what had happened and all the sort of pressure in our family and how weak she must have been.

But now I'm a bit older, I feel so proud of her and how resilient she must have been to get through it all.

And I hope a little bit of that resilience has rubbed off on me.

Thank you.

That was Marie Denahy.

Marie lives in London and works for a charity that helps unhoused people.

She's been working on a collection of short stories since 2021.

Her mother, Chris, remains well and lives nearby.

When we emailed Marie to let her know that her story was airing, she was actually visiting her mom that weekend, so she was able to find some old photos.

To see those photos, visit themoth.org slash extras.

After the break, we'll hear from a mom who gets in over her head.

Be back in a moment.

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Welcome back.

Our final story is a favorite from the archive from an often unheralded and sometimes maligned kind of mother, the stepmother.

Maria Morris told this at a main stage in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

Here's Maria, live at the moths.

Thank you.

I was 46 years old, never married.

I lived in Chicago.

I owned my own house,

and I had a fantastic career going.

My big indulgence was traveling to see about 15 or 20 Bruce Springsteen shows every year.

I had a little bit of FOMO though.

I thought maybe those people that say I don't want to die alone are right.

So I joined eHarmony.

The first match I got was a fellow named Andy.

He was a widower.

He had a job as a software engineer.

He had three children.

He lived in a little nice suburb.

And he actually mentioned Springsteen in his bio.

So of course I pounced on him.

and

wasn't quite like that.

Our first date, we went to a very elegant restaurant.

We had the best time.

He told me that his wife, Judy, had died four years prior and he'd been raising his kids on his own.

And it was just the best night.

We closed the place down.

He drove me all the way back to the city.

And when he dropped me off, he said, would you like to go out again tomorrow?

I was like, oh, okay.

He said, how about coming up to the house to meet my kids?

And I said, to myself, I don't know much about dating, but I think that breaks a rule.

Sure.

I'll meet them.

So I get there the next night, and three of them all lined up at the front door, waiting to shake my hand.

Cassidy was 12 at the time, and she was very reserved, keeping an eye on me, but very polite.

Honor was this tiny wisp of a little kid.

He sat on my lap and drank an entire quart of wonton soup by himself.

And Hannah was nine,

and she wanted to show me everything in her room.

Her poly pockets, all her American girl gear, her books, her homework, everything.

And I said, after a while, I played with him and I was like, okay, I got to take off, you guys.

And Hannah said to me, Um, do you think you could stay and help us get ready for bed?

I'm like, come on.

What is the matter with you?

Are you trying to cute me to death?

And I drove home.

I'm like, I think I love these people.

Our third date was, it was either the next night or the night after that.

And Andy said, I'm going to ask you to marry me, but I'm going to wait until enough time has passed that you won't think I'm joking.

And I said, Oh, what the hell?

Just ask me.

I'll say yes.

So he asked me.

I said, yes, I'll marry you.

At that point, I thought maybe I should tell some people in my real life about this.

My parents lived on the first floor of my two-flat in the city, and I hadn't even told them I'd gone on a date.

I had not been on a date in more than 10 years.

So I tell my mom,

Mom, I met somebody and she's like, God, you think you know a person?

And my friends, I find out later, were trying to stage an intervention.

Everybody was unsettled, let's put it that way.

And so we got married six months after we met.

And I moved to the suburbs, into the big house, and immediately I could feel the void that Judy had left.

It was deep and cold and quiet.

I just looked around and said, what is my role here?

What do I do?

I got the answer two months later when the mortgage crisis struck and I got left or let go from my job.

And I went from a person who had always obviously supported themselves and had a really good thing going

to being financially dependent on somebody.

And I was a full-time stay-at-home stepmom.

I looked around

and I thought,

you know, I have never cooked raw chicken before.

I have never managed household finances.

And here I am, I'm in charge.

I googled, what do families eat for dinner?

And it turns out it's not popcorn and red wine.

So one of those, one of those very first days, I was home alone.

The kids are at school, and I'm looking, I'm like a detective with a marriage license in lieu of a search warrant.

And I'm digging through drawers, like, how did she do this?

How did she manage finances, feed these people, keep them clean and

relatively happy?

How did she care for Andy?

How did she care for the kids?

In the drawer of the vanity in our bathroom, I found a black compact of Lancome blush.

And I opened it and I could see the indent where her finger had rubbed it down.

I turned the compact over and the color was a plum.

It was the same one that I had.

And under our bed, I found the baby books.

And Judy had taken such care to write every detail.

The first smile, their first food that they liked, what they didn't like, their first little noises, of course, their first steps.

I found out from that part of my search that Cassidy, who was 12 then,

she didn't sleep for the first three years of her life.

And I was kind of glad I missed that era.

But I had time.

That's all I had, and I dove in.

I'm getting kids out of bed.

I'm making lunches.

I'm driving to school.

I'm sitting in the car line.

I'm just kind of following along what other parents seem to do.

And it was a lot.

And I realized at a certain point, I'm not sure I like this.

I started to panic, but I was so invested in looking competent and secure in my role that I didn't tell anybody.

So it just built and built.

And the frustration grew.

I was both overwhelmed and finding the whole thing just really tedious at the same time.

And it all came to a head one day when I was

serving

corn chowder that I had made from scratch.

Okay.

No powdered mixes here.

I was ladling it into one of Hannah's, into Hannah's bowl, and she looks at it and she's like, I'm not going to eat this.

And I responded in a way that I thought was proportionate at the time.

I took the pot of soup, I walked to the sink, I held it three feet higher than the sink, and I dropped it.

And I turned around, ran upstairs, and I cried in the bathroom.

And Andy came up.

He's like, I'm sorry.

Hannah feels really bad.

She's sorry.

I said, I think I'm in over my head.

I'm not good at this.

I don't even like it.

I'm sorry.

I don't want to do this anymore.

I got to go.

And he's like, they're there.

They're there.

You're doing a wonderful job.

And I was like job?

Did you hire me or marry me?

This is awful.

I don't like this.

And he's like, well, what's so bad?

I was like, well, take the socks, okay?

In the laundry.

Pairing up little kids' socks

is a job that should be relegated to people who have to do community service in lieu of jail time.

I settled down.

I just got used to what I was doing.

Even though I'm still bitter, I missed about 20 Bruce Bringstein shows that first year.

All my friends are out there on tour, and I'm matching socks.

I did

eventually, on another excursion into the cabinets, find the key to the castle.

It was in the form of Judy's blue lucite recipe box.

She had all the recipes for the Jewish foods that the family loved, and I made it as a meal.

I made the beef brisket, I made matzo ball soup, I made noodle kugel, I put it on the table, and everybody smiled.

They were so happy.

They were like, you get us.

This is wonderful.

And I met other parents, and I realized, you know, I'm not a failure.

This stuff is hard.

Everybody goes through stuff.

Like, my coping mechanism was to take a bottle of wine up to the laundry room and iron sheets and pillowcases for an hour, but everybody's got their thing.

I could even see myself rubbing off on them a little bit.

I busted Honor, who was only six,

singing Born to Run.

And that first year,

Christmas fell right in the middle of Hanukkah and Cassie said, let's call it Christma Cup.

And I'm like, yes.

And then we went to get a Christmas tree and Hannah says, we can bring that thing in the house, but it's going to have blue lights and we're calling it a Hanukkah bush.

And I'm like, that's perfect.

It was wonderful.

It was about

six or eight months after we were married that I was helping Hannah get ready for bed, and she said, Momsie,

is there any way that you know of that my mom can come back someday?

I just, I wanted to say yes so bad,

but I I said, no, honey, and I am so sorry.

We cried, and then she said,

well, you're a pretty good mumsy.

So last August, Andy and I celebrated 13 years of marriage.

Thank you, it was all me.

There's been, I don't know, 12 or 13 Chrismekas two bot mitzvahs some door slamming Andy and I went to see Bruce Springsteen together on Broadway

And when I think about it

I hope Judy is both relieved and proud of us.

Thank you

That was Maria Morris.

Maria is an urban planner who lives in Chicago.

In her free time, she designs and maintains perennial gardens and fights to save our democracy.

She's a two-time Moth Grand Slam winner.

You can hear more of her stories on YouTube.

That's it for this episode.

If listening to these stories has inspired you to tell your own, why not get up on the moth stage at a Moth Story Slam?

To find one near you, visit themoth.org slash events.

You can also pitch us your story at the Moth Pitchline.

For instructions, go to themoth.org slash pitchline.

And for all who celebrate, from all of us here at the Moth, Happy Mother's Day.

Jennifer Hickson is a senior director, one of the hosts of the Peabody Award-winning Moth Radio Hour, and co-author of The Moth's How to Tell a Story.

Maria Morris's story was directed by Chloe Salmon.

This episode of The Moth Podcast was produced by Sarah Austin-Janes, Sarah Jane Johnson, and me, Mark Sellinger.

The rest of the Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Jennifer Hickson, Kate Tellers, Marina Clouce, Suzanne Rust, Leanne Gully, and Patricia Ureña.

The Moth Podcast is presented by Odyssey.

Special thanks to their executive producer, Leah Rhys-Dennis.

All moth stories are true, as remembered, by their storytellers.

For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story, and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.

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