‘The Rehearsal’ Season 2, Episode 4: Nathan Fielder, Dating Coach

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Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast where we love to dream about Einstein.

I'm Charles Holmes of the Midnight Boy.

She's Jodi Walker of We're Obsessed, and we're back to discuss not pilot's code.

Oh, I didn't, I didn't update this.

I didn't update this in the

old doc.

We're here to talk about Kiss Me, the fourth episode of Rehearsal Season two.

Jody,

I see that you're repping, you're repping your ringer merch.

Why so much spirit today?

Um, just because I needed to cover up the top of my head mostly.

But also, we were just talking offline about, um,

about the rehearsal being kind of a boyfriend-coated show.

And I feel that this is like a ringer dad-coated hat when I wear it.

It is, I really get into the mix.

They're going to let me on the watch.

That is a very watch-coated hat.

I'm wearing a hat today as well because I have a haircut right after this.

Okay.

So, you know, it's a hat day for the rehearsal crew.

Hopefully, we're bringing you our best commentary.

We're not bringing you our best looks.

We are not bringing you the hairlines.

Also, Charles, how dare you bring up Einstein this early in the podcast?

You know,

that might get a few people going.

It's a little early for that kind of talk, okay?

Let's just get to it.

I do have to ask, is this the second week in a row where we've seen Nathan Fielder break character?

We'll get into it.

I almost feel like he was more broken by Colin than by Mrs.

Einstein.

Colin broke something deep inside of him and the sort of science he is attempting to create.

But yes, I mean, he is stumbling upon some real, real characters.

That woman didn't even have a name.

I was like, I can't call her Miss Einstein, but I guess that's, she was like, I want to go to dinner with that woman.

I want her to be my friend.

She was the best.

I, to your point, I don't know what it is, but Nathan Fielder's superpower is finding the most interesting people in the world and just letting them rip, just letting them go.

Charles, first of all, that woman would eat you alive.

Second of all, I know I didn't know her name because I kept wanting to scream it.

I kept wanting to be like, Monica, no.

Monica.

I didn't know what her name was.

I would have thought she was more so of a Deborah.

She looked like a Deborah to me.

Debbie, no.

Debbie, you're being wild, but she meant it.

Boy, did she mean it?

Well, before we get into my questions that I have for this episode, let's talk about the plot, which is like most of these episodes, very twisty and very turny.

This episode is called Kiss Me, directed by Fielder, written by Fielder, Carrie Kemper, Adam Lock Norton, and Eric Nordinicola.

We briefly return to Wings of Voice, the singing competition show within Nathan's larger reality show, which he seems to be getting bored of.

It's during taping for Wings of Voice that Nathan takes interest in a young pilot named Colin.

Colin is having trouble dating, and in typical Nathan Fielder fashion, the comedian introduces us to a ridiculous new concept called the PAC, in which Nathan hires a group of actors to follow Colin around while he goes on simulated dates to boost his confidence.

Through a series of complicated and entertaining twists, Colin ends up going out with Emma, an actress previously hired to be part of the pack.

In an effort to get Colin and Emma to kiss, Nathan hires five pairs of actors meant to play the budding couple along with a sex coordinator who is watching it all in

what I would say is awe and a little bit of shock.

By episodes end, Colin seems no closer to finding true love, but he is, well, by episodes end, Colin seems no closer to finding true love, but Nathan is now ready to go to Congress.

My first question for you, Jodi, after what I can only describe as a very explosive episode of TV last week, Pilot's Code, this one,

I think you could call a breather episode, but emotionally, it was almost more cringy to me than episode three.

I was almost like, I was laughing, but I was almost like, I was like,

this is a pivot.

I'm like, oh my gosh.

You know, last week I said that I like found ways to laugh that I didn't know existed inside of me.

And this week I noticed I was back to kind of, I mean, I was laughing, but like my jaw kept dropping.

I think like at the point at which he revealed the pack as the method he would be using.

And I, it was the first time the pack all said Colin.

Like it was the first time they all repeated him.

My jaw went, ah.

I was just like, what is going to happen?

I think, yeah, it did not feel like a breather.

In some ways, it felt like return to form.

But I also think in this episode in particular, the experiments are very flawed.

What Nathan is doing is

very far from aviation safety in a couple of different ways.

Is it?

I don't know.

By the end, he goes to Congress and our man, what's his name, Gulia?

John G, as I like to call it.

John G.

John G is just like, this is some interesting stuff.

So I don't know.

It seems pretty connected.

But Charles, what is he about to say to Congress?

If you could guess, what is he about to say to Congress about what he's learned?

I really want

Nathan Fielder to go to Congress and be like, all right, so have you guys heard of cloning?

Well, let me tell you the entire story.

I mean, at the end of this episode, it basically seems like he's about to be like, have you guys heard of acting?

Maybe you could do it.

at your job and it would save lives.

And of course, that's the whole premise of this show, of all of the shows, is you're so far far far away and then generally he brings us back in some way i did find a lot of holes kind of in how nathan was experimenting in this episode for example very early on colin says i've tried acting like someone i've not i fell on my face and it just didn't work.

And then by the end of the episode, Nathan is saying, have you considered acting?

And that's all like, that's all fine basically, because Nathan Fielder has also constructed a world

that is so insane and unreliable and unpredictable that then I'm like, well, he's getting it wrong on purpose.

Like he's creating flawed experiments because he's getting bored with wings of voice.

He's spiraling out of control.

He can't figure it out.

He's obsessed with acting and sincerity there because there's always the aspect of Nathan as the experimenter experiencing the experiment and how is he handling it?

Not that well right now.

I think what I learned in this episode, and I think we've been talking about it a lot this season, is

when, and I love this actress, whoever they got, she was perfect.

When the actress who plays Emma is talking about like her sign that she gives to guy that she's on date, the like the eyes to lip to eyes.

Right.

It's enough.

It reminded me of the Mary D fantastic, fantastic, where the funniest shit to me in the rehearsal is when Nathan is trying to be like, okay, so if I do this one thing,

it will work for me 100% of the time.

This is a repeatable, because like there's this moment where Nathan is like, all right, do it to me again.

And it like, he's like, I don't know if it works.

And then she does it one more time.

He's like, oh.

And she's looking like

great you know i get it when she's doing it i'm like oh yeah that'd work on me but for him he's so confused because not only would it not work on him he couldn't repeat it and i do think that's a lot of what's simmering on the surface in this episode is nathan's sort of aversion

to

being able to act out sincerity, being able to do a trick, being able play with someone.

And that's so strange because that's what Nathan does.

But when he's doing it, there's a whole other layer of prodding and pushing and acting.

I mean, I think I found this episode particularly uncomfortable because

Colin is such a special case.

And I do not want him to, I do not want Nathan to mess with Colin.

I want him to leave Colin alone.

So I do have to ask, I

laughed out loud when

the pack separate from Colin.

They all go into this

second room.

And then Nathan just goes, all right, so who's into Colin?

And everybody's like, uh, he's like, no, like,

who is here is attracted to Colin?

And I was like, that almost was the moment where I was like, oh, this is Nathan the producer.

This is This is Nathan.

Cause I think what I noticed too in this episode is I'm starting to realize with every episode of the rehearsal this season, it almost seems like he's poking at another element of reality TV where it's like we've seen him do the Sully episode, which is all about like those TLC recreations or those true crime recreations where it's like just so over the top.

You're like, this is not like real life.

You have wings of

a voice

of voice, which is very much.

You can call it wings of love, which actually was what this episode was.

It was wings of love this episode, but he's doing a a reality competition show and in this i was like oh is is this nathan fielder's rehearsal episode on how ludicrous dating reality dating shows are and what is the difference between

reality and then a producer pushing these people closer and closer that was what made me uncomfortable is like

nathan's kind of being an asshole in this episode exactly yes no it's a great point I think that he is, he is both being manipulative and allowing us to see him being manipulative, which engages the question of, is he always being this manipulative?

And we don't know.

Is he doing this as a play at, you know, a bachelor style show?

And then, of course, the question that comes with any show like this

is, does being sort of pushed or manipulated into doing something make it any less real?

If Colin is pushed towards Emma and he likes Emma, if Colin wants to kiss Emma, but can't find the bravery or the means or the social constructs to do so, and Nathan gives him those means, however ludicrous they may be, does that make it any less real?

I don't know.

We're always fighting that good fight over on Ringer Reality, but we're watching it at play here.

And that exact scene that you quote, that you, that you pointed out, where he says to all of the, all of the pack, so who here's into Colin?

I had the exact same or a similar observation where I was like, he looks like the devil.

I know he said he looked like the devil when he was like in the flames of the, of the fire in the first episode, but he was acting like a, like a mischievous little fairy.

Like he was acting like Puck in Midsummer's Night's Dream in this episode.

He's like, he's smiling much more than we've ever seen him.

It's very disconcerting.

Like he's very literally playing with people and he's also letting us see that.

I think to me, that was the part that was like way more off the beaten path of

a somewhat direct line to aviation safety, which I would even say, I would say that last week had

almost the most direct line to aviation safety.

This is, this was a departure where i kept being like what does this have to and i that is obviously part of the joke what does this have to do with aviation safety but there were also moments where i thought nathan looked even more devilish when they were all at the when the three women were at the it's emma miss einstein and the other one and he's basically like i'm not legally i can't say that you guys should give it a shot but wink wink and there was this moment i was like ew i was like because he's putting on this to your point i was like why is he being charming?

Why is he being, why is he kidding around with them?

Why is he not doing the normal Nathan Fielder thing?

He's doing the, you've probably been around it.

When you know, like a producer in any creative field who's trying to get what they want, or they're talking to talent.

They have this voice that they do and this way of moving around the world where they're laughing at jokes that maybe aren't funny.

They're complimenting you.

They're just like, hey, I shouldn't tell you this, but if you want, no one's going to say no.

And that was when I was like, this could just be a bravo real housewife.

Like, this is just, this seems like the producer poking at the bear being like, they said some shit about you.

You want to see it?

Well, and he's like, he's exposing ethical seems, you know, and that's, that's what everyone's always talking about with Nathan Fielder.

Like, is this ethical to be kind of.

tricking people like this, manipulating people into acting certain ways.

And I think I always land on like, these people want to be here for the most part.

And usually the ones who have a bad reaction to it are the people who want to be there the most, but also want to have more control over the way that they're portrayed.

Most likely because they usually have more control over the way they're portrayed in their own lives.

They are capable of that sort of acting that.

Nathan talks about a lot and also seems to kind of hate.

Like he's very confused by charming people or who people who navigate the world with that kind of skill.

Whereas, someone like Moody

kind of doesn't always have a ton of control over how he comes across and is probably just fine with being like, Yeah, I seem kind of awkward on screen.

I am kind of awkward.

Colin's hitting new levels of he was Moody 2.0.

Do you want to be?

Why are you here?

Do you want to be here?

And at the point at which he sort of like hit Nathan with sheer silence,

Nathan is asking him about kissing and dating.

And while they're observing all of the,

all of the Colin and Emma's acting out the scenes in the five studio apartments in a row.

And he just doesn't answer Nathan's question.

And I was like, oh, Nathan's met his match.

Did you end up feeling bad for Colin?

Because there was a moment watching this.

Part of my cringe factor was

either Colin is a super, super great actor who's not breaking when there's a literal pack behind him repeating every word he says, or this is a guy who is either doesn't get the joke, doesn't get the humor, or is taking this very sincerely.

And there's just like this devil in the corner in Nathan Fielder, just like poking at him a little bit.

And I was like, this is difficult to,

I feel bad.

Yeah, I mean, I think I went back and forth because the times at which I felt bad were that I did not want Colin to have to talk to Nathan because Nathan is who makes him most uncomfortable.

But when I was excited for Colin was like when he was playing putt-putt with Emma and he seemed

really

like embodied in himself.

He seemed other than the very final walk away where maybe he should have kissed her and he didn't, he seemed like he was having a good time.

Like, he's a good idea.

Are you saying that Colin

has a reserved

sexuality?

As I think Miss Einstein says something to the effect.

I'm saying he reminds me of Einstein.

That's what I'm saying.

I don't know if he knows this, but he's got a little Einstein about it.

Even Emma was a perfect example of like Nathan being able to find

a woman who is almost who is uncomfortable to watch in a different way in that she's also so nice and she's also so sincere and she's nervous

and i was like nathan stop talking to this woman stop talking to both of them get out of the way because every single time even when nathan is bringing colin to see the five couples that are playing each of them he's just like isn't this so interesting isn't this so great and colin's just like

Yeah, so like, they're like actively inside of each other and Colin is having to like watch that.

I mean, it's, it's so, it is so wild what is happening on those sets.

With Emma,

Nathan gets in my head of like,

well, how sincere can actors really be?

Because I'm like,

this woman seems so nice.

And I don't know, maybe there really is a connection happening between Emma and Colin.

But then I'm like, but she also came on this set as an actor and she knows there are cameras and she knows this is a TV show.

And she's getting pulled aside to say, hey, if you want to spend a little more time with who is clearly the main narrative, feel free.

And she chooses to do it.

So then, and this gets back to the bachelor of like, are you here for the right reasons?

Is Colin the reason?

Or is more screen time or acting the reason?

You're saying that Emma, this might have not been true love.

This might have been a screen time.

Don't you're so jaded.

Jaded Jody over here.

He doesn't believe in fucking true love between

my two favorite people now.

What?

But what I do believe is that it could have started for the wrong reasons, screen time, classic wrong reason, and turned in to real love.

And that's the other thing about,

you know, the waffling back and forth on do I feel bad for Colin.

I don't want Colin to have to talk to Nathan, who clearly makes him very uncomfortable.

I do feel like something good for Colin is happening with Emma.

He is coming out of his shell.

And what do I know?

Nathan created that scenario.

Like Nathan did bring them together.

He did manipulate him into something that might be good for him.

I still maintain my reservations about if it actually has any bearing on aviation safety.

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I'm going to put you on the spot right now, Jodi, as our resident expert on everything reality TV show related.

How would you help Colin?

in this reality show context?

Do you think that the pack is the, is the, are you giving him the pack to make him more confident?

Like, what would you in this reality show setting

give our boy to up, like, just make him feel himself a little bit more?

I'm going to tell you the last thing I'd do first, and that's the pack.

The fact that that sweet young man even like made it through that process, that would be driving me crazy.

If 15 people, also, he's already uncomfortable with the things that come out of his mouth, and now he has to hear them repeated to him by like 15 seagulls.

I would not go with the pack.

The The package.

You would work.

The only thing the world needs more of is me.

That's right.

15 more.

I'm just we've got you on one, Mike.

Let's get 15 more behind it.

Totally agree.

I think people were sleeping on Colin a little bit.

He was his sweetheart.

I, I, I like, oh my, of course, that's the whole thing is that he's, he's darling.

I mean, he literally looks like a precious moments doll.

And Nathan looks like the devil like messing with him and it's very concerning sort of um but i would say what i would actually do as a watcher of reality tv but not a producer or manipulator of reality tv and as a lover of talking to people at the point at which

Colin, I mean, this is the thing.

There were just like, we were in a turducken of experiments in this show, just like shapes and squares and triangles.

At the point at which Colin was in a recreation of his house with an actress playing Emma.

Nope, with

Emma, but in her actress form.

Yes.

Emma is playing Miss Kiss Me Lots or whatever.

He is playing a character whose only character trait, as assigned by Nathan, is that he's comfortable.

with kissing on any date and that he always gets it right.

Don't tell me you didn't laugh at that part.

That was hilarious.

Of course, it's all funny.

I thought, what if we just asked Colin why he hasn't kissed Emma and what might make him more comfortable?

What if we just

asked?

To be clear,

I feel as if

the eye to the lip to the eye move, I was sold on.

And the fact that Colin kept missing out on it,

I think Nathan didn't want to embarrass the actress and wanted to give that move more time to breathe to be like, hey,

he might just be impervious to this move, but it's still a great move.

Oh, it's a great move.

I think we've all either used it or been on the receiving end of it.

It works.

When you see her doing it, it works.

And generally, no, it was interesting to hear her be like, I've talked about it with the girls, works every time.

Because I would say that typically when you're doing it, eye, lips, eye, you're doing it because you want to kiss someone,

not because you want to manipulate a situation where someone wants to kiss you or to be kissed.

I'll be honest.

How you doing?

It's all a manipulation.

You know what I'm saying?

Once you got to pull out the move,

Nathan Fielder might be right.

It's all a manipulation.

We're all actors, you know?

I know.

I mean, that is this episode is,

it gets you thinking.

I think it had me in my feelings a little bit for Colin and for what was happening.

Did you feel for the,

whatchamacallit, for the people that he brought in to watch their spouses

and partners kiss other people very, very aggressively?

I didn't because they all seemed so fine with it.

This is acting.

Well, that's L.A.

There was one guy there where I'm like, I've seen you in Echo Park.

He doesn't give a fuck.

He's like, he's like, I don't care.

He's also like, we've been dating for two weeks.

This is fine.

No, I did not feel bad for them, but I do think that this episode, and I know I quote it every week, but it's like really what the season is always coming back about to me is that line that he says, I think in the first episode of the season, I've always felt that sincerity is overrated.

It just ends up punishing those who can't perform it as well as others.

And

I think

he

sees that in, he's just, he's always thinking about it and he's always ruminating on it and always trying to figure out how

sincerity and the realness of relationship

applies in the cockpit so that it can improve aviation safety.

And I just keep wondering if all this work might be better served elsewhere.

I mean, there is to your point about this being about sincerity and how you perform it and him, his inability to do it, this might be a stretch.

But I noticed that he kind of picked up something that Mary D did where he had, in this episode, he has a catchphrase he keeps going where he ends every anytime he's pitching someone on this crazy rehearsal type thing he goes let's let the games begin and i'm like is this your fantastic are you trying to make this your fantastic i kept thinking that was going to come up because it is so manipulative it puts people in competition and the first time he says it is when he's sitting with the three

the three women.

I know that we've touched on her, but it's actually just like never enough to talk about,

let's talk about the woman who's obsessed with Einstein sexually.

Let's clear up Einstein.

You need to start us off.

I,

I love this woman.

Like, I, this was,

I will protect this woman to the end of the earth.

She gave Nathan, I've actually like, it was such a

a wild ride of hearing her do this monologue about her sexual attraction to Einstein that has existed since she was, and I quote, a girl.

It was like, it truly rivaled Nathan in the twists and turns that it took of like, I could not possibly have expected one sentence after the next.

First, she says, I was turned on to him about Einstein.

And then she says that that happened in a wet dream.

And Nathan says, what's a wet dream for a woman?

And she says, well, women can get wet too.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am.

How about we call this man out on his gendered ideas of arousal?

Like, that was when I was just like, all right, that's too good.

I was like, that was a moment where I was just like, this is the exact thing that the Nathan Fielder character would say in this moment.

That's what gets the Redditors going.

How could this woman possibly say this perfect thing?

And Charles, my answer is yes, that woman is

a sexual dynamo.

She was locked and loaded with that answer.

What is a wet dream for a woman?

well women get wet too um

and then she proceeds to give a monologue

about albert einstein she does exclusively call him einstein and how she then she explains that her wet dream was actually a waking dream she was fully awake reading a an einstein biography

and thought he was so sexy.

She said, and I read his story and I was like, this is the kind of man I would have loved.

And he had a baby when he was really young.

Did you know that?

She just keeps revealing one more thing about Einstein that she's attracted to.

Did she at one point go,

yeah, when I got to E equals M C squared?

Ooh, that's right.

She's explaining

the wet dream.

Do you think she went to go see Oppenheimer just for the Einstein scene?

She's just like, there's my boy.

I think she got kicked out of the theater at Oppenheimer is what I think.

But then the joke gets so much funnier when

Emma,

Nathan is manipulating them both.

It's basically like, hey, you know, there's going to be a lot of downtime.

If any of you want to shoot your shot, feel free.

So Emma and

And our boy Colin are having a very cute conversation.

A wonderful little conversation about travel.

And our old girl just comes in and immediately, what did she say?

You remind me of Einstein.

And he's like,

okay.

She's like, I don't want to interrupt, but you, you know, you remind me of Einstein.

And that's when she says, you have a certain reserved sexuality about you.

Emma basically moonwalks out of the scene.

She's so uncomfortable.

And Colin gives a classic Colinism, which is, hmm.

And this is when I thought, like, Nathan,

this is the chaos you create.

And this episode, it reminded me a lot of when in season one,

when the structure of the family and the kids switching out and Nathan getting emotionally involved and

trying to figure out if they were going to raise their fake rehearsal child as Christian and Jewish, et cetera, it kind of starts to spin out.

That's how I felt a lot in this episode.

It starts

deep in the wings of love competition.

Then

we're doing the pack.

We've got Colin.

We're doing the PAC to try to help him on dating that's not happening.

Then we're doing recreate five recreations in a row so that Nathan can do like

human AI, so that he can do like predictive behaviors to help Colin and then sort of disregards that pretty quickly to move on to the concept of acting.

Like we're just watching him iterate and iterate and iterate to try to figure out what is going to change pilot behavior.

I mean, that is something that.

I'm still struggling with in terms of I thought the wings of a voice section in the beginning was just one step too far.

Even like by the time Nathan is just kind of like, yeah, I'm over this.

I'm like, I'm kind of over it too.

And it is this, I like the episode.

I think this is still one of the best shows that is out on TV right now.

But I am starting to like wonder, like, what's the through line?

Like, what, what actually is?

And I'm getting it.

And, and I could intellectualize it and I could tell you about all the themes.

But this was once again, an episode where

even once we get to the sex coordinator and he's like essentially being like acting as bullshit i'm like does nathan even care about acting to this like hey nathan doesn't care about acting this is just like something super funny that's happening on screen

yeah i think that he's spinning out and taking us far away from the construct and using these absurdist things on purpose.

We're supposed to feel unmoored.

Like we're supposed to feel uncomfortable.

I think that that's what the first season was about a lot too.

And the reason that I think he's doing it on purpose, and I wonder if I'm getting a little redditary here, especially after saying, like, guys,

these aren't actors.

When they are, they're disclosed, lean in.

But it was pretty clear to me that the opening wings of voice thing was a skit.

Yeah.

That's written into the script

for Nathan precisely to say, I'm getting bored by this.

You know, it's part of the story construct.

Nathan's maybe not actually

getting bored by it.

He's using it as

a beat between how we connect these stories, between how we get to Colin, who is an interesting character, and of course, how we get to Mrs.

Einstein, who is the most interesting character.

But that's why that makes me really feel like this episode is supposed to feel

like Nathan's pretty lost in the plot of his own mission to create change in aviation safety.

I mean, and it's also what I do think was really smart about them ending on the Congress note is that he says when he's walking John G through the fake airport.

He basically he re, because he keeps restating it.

He's just like, yeah, you know, I can, as long as I don't go over budget, uh i can

i what does he say i can he says hbo is paying for all of this they basically gave me a blank check as long as i don't go over budget the only requirement is that everything i do related to aviation safety has to be somewhat entertaining john g no questions he says well yeah that's how the world turns you know

He's, he's done it himself a time or two.

I mean, if I'm John G,

I would say Nathan is making some points.

If Nathan, Nathan's point, like you already kind of said it earlier, is what if we all just acted like we were actors?

And I'm just like,

huh,

that's a very

armchair philosophical.

Sort of, but like, we're not all actors is, you know, and

his sort of obsession with like,

well, we could all just be acting, i think is

like an insecurity or

an anger that not that some people act out sincerity better than others but that some people cannot act it out can't act anything out can't be anything but who they are and that creates this real transparency.

If you can't be any more charming than you are, and then what actually creates charm if you can sort of pretend then you're charming?

Does that actually just make you charming if you can pretend it forever?

With someone like Colin, who I think Nathan or the character of Nathan sees himself in,

there is a depth there that is not rising to the surface.

His

inability to be himself at all times is not because he's acting.

It's because he's incapable of acting when he is incapable of being himself when he is in uncomfortable positions that push his true self further and further down

and creating all these scenarios that might

help him

act it out

i don't it's not making him any more of an actor that's not behavior you can change and as stated by nathan he is not a therapist nor are any of the actors he's brought onto the wings of voice stage to talk to pilots Legally, they are not therapists and cannot report to the FAA.

That was hilarious.

But one thing you just said,

if we're looking at the show through the darkest lens possible, is there a level of like, sometimes I don't want to call it anger, but like with Nathan, the thing that I feel like so much of his work is about is like, can you actually change

behavior or yourself?

And especially with Nathan, I think Nathan is

probably naturally a very off-putting person or a very awkward person or the type of

the type of person that

would benefit from there being rules to society where it's just like, I don't have to infer when a woman is looking from my eyes to lips to eyes.

If we all were just like agreed.

That that was the rule.

It was funny.

What like one of my little homies was like asking me He was like showing me his hinge profile or whatever and he's like yeah, can you give me your thoughts?

And he was just like he had something on there what he was like looking for and i was just like oh that's code word for your boy and he's like what and he i'm just like yeah you got to turn that you you got to change that to like long-term relationship open to short was it oh does he have it he's looking for i think it was like short-term open to long and it was like he looked at me he's like wait he's like women think that i'm a fuck i was just like no no no that's like i'm like yeah but you didn't do anything wrong it's just but be honest be honest about what you're open to if you're not open to a long-term relationship don't put it on there but that was a moment where I was watching this episode and I was going back and I was like, oh, for Nathan,

that is something that bothers him.

The fact that you're just like, oh, there's not like, there's this rule that maybe 60 to 70% of society understands.

Like, if you do this, you're a fuckboy.

If you do this, that means someone wants to kiss you.

And then there's a certain subset who are just like,

I don't get like, no one gave me this memo.

Like, I, there's nuances.

The thing about social rules like that is that that rule, which yeah, like probably 70% of people understand that is a sign that someone wants to be kissed, only applies to people who are capable of making good eye contact.

And that's a real thing.

Like

some people don't make eye contact very often.

It is part of who they are.

It is part of their behavior and it is fine.

All social rules can't apply to all people but do you think nathan wants it to be that case that he wants

yes he wants so badly to crack the human behavioral code

and

i understand

i mean

he's talk what i think it's when he's talking to john g

and he says um that kind of the conclusion he's come to, and I guess what he's going to tell Congress, is that it's less less about in the cockpit in these

high-tension times, it's less about the critical moment when you may need to take over the controls and assert yourself, and more about trying to establish a relationship from the very start when an emergency actually happens.

And as a reminder, the reason that he's come to that conclusion is because he has been trying

very hard to make a very shy young man kiss an actress.

Yes, That's what's brought him to this conclusion.

And when he says

early on, when he's talking about that he's observed all the pilots standing in silence and he's kind of like,

that's not normal.

That's not normal, like

new colleague behavior.

I'm kind of like, could it be?

Is it more about changing pilots' behavior or is it more about screening for this kind of behavior early on?

If it's it's someone who can't assert themselves when they are in a beta position should they be a

co-captain i don't know

guess we'll find out in congress i honestly i'm gonna call up hbo jody

I'm going to, I'm going to get you and Colin in a room and you, you are the new Nathan.

You are, you are, I feel like you could help Colin way more than Nathan because I feel like you actually would want to help him.

Nathan,

he's playing with him.

Nathan wants to learn something from him.

And sometimes that can mirror help.

I do take great joy in bringing a shy person out of their shell.

And it's a careful process.

It rarely involves actors

or immediate kissing.

So that's a difference in mine and Nathan's approach.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, if this was immediate kissing.

I wish they would have given us a timeline of like, how many, like, how long were these dates?

Like, how long was this process?

Was this like a week?

Was this two weeks?

Was this three weeks?

To me, it seemed to move pretty quick, but interestingly, we were not on the first date.

We weren't, Nathan was not invited to the first date.

He wasn't invited to the second date either, but there were seemingly cameras following them around stealthily.

I will also say on that second date, I don't know if my girl,

the signs were as obvious as she had made them seem.

I was just like, I don't think Colin fumbled that too badly.

Well, and yeah, no, he didn't.

And the thing is, if you subscribe to these social rules, if you are Nathan and you come to believe that all kisses on early dates come about because the woman or the man does the eye, lip, eye move, then what's the inverse of that?

That someone doesn't want to kiss if they don't do the move.

He's dealing in pretty tricky,

very gray areas that he is often trying to make black and white.

And that's what I feel like we're pretty deep in in this episode: is like attempting

to

force.

I mean, he even talks about it several times.

Like, he uses the word force a lot.

Like, I can't force these people to do this.

Ethically, I can't do such and such,

much though he may like to.

I mean, mean, you already brought it up.

It,

I think I start getting uncomfortable, and Nathan Fielder is doing it on purpose.

Where, in the first season, when the family shit starts getting too real, when you realize there's a bunch of kids, there's a woman on the other end of this who will want a family, and you're like, ethically, where are we going?

And this was another episode where I was like, all right,

there is a line here, Nathan.

And I feel like you are pissing on it with every single successive minute of just like,

these are real people.

I get that one of them is an actor and would love some screen time, but there does seem like we are up against even my ability to be like, dog, stop being mean to poor cop.

Like, just let this boy be.

Oh, Charles, when he kisses her on the cheek.

As an actor,

as an actor, well, that's why like you asked, what would I do?

I would ask him if he wants to kiss her.

That was what made me uncomfortable is I was just never totally clear on

how into this Colin was.

And I think that the likelihood is that Colin is also doing it for growth, that Colin knows that he's in a somewhat socially precarious position.

And he says that he doesn't have much of a social life.

Being a pilot makes that even harder.

Being a pilot makes it hard to date.

There's clearly a story there because Meredith said the same thing

and

worth some exploration.

I think, like, if I'm treating this as an actual experiment, I would have wanted this episode to be following the train of what I would have wanted it to be a little more serialized, of following what Nathan figured out in the last episode when he cosplayed Sully for a whole lifetime.

You wanted a little bit more Sully.

Of course I wanted more Sully.

I always want more Sully.

And

I personally felt like he was on to something with, but where he picks up the tail is finding out that pilots could be at risk of losing their license.

if they go to therapy, which I think is a bit of a jump.

And maybe,

I don't know, maybe if we're going to fix aviation safety, maybe we start there with maybe that's what we go to Congress about.

Could we figure out a way that pilots can freely express their mental health struggles in a therapist's office if that, if that is the issue?

Or, or

should we make a dating app for pilots and people who understand how tough their job is?

Nathan?

I just called you Nathan because it felt so Nathan Fielder like

That's a great idea.

You know what we should call it?

On the wings of love.

Hell yes.

We are, we're going into business, Jodi.

But guess what?

I'm changing our segment, our email segment, okay?

I have a new name for you.

You got to be iterating.

You got to be iterating.

I'm iterating.

We are building.

We are building this rehearsal space.

So I want to call this Wings of Podcasting now.

Okay.

It's gorgeous.

Gorgeous name for a baby girl.

Yes.

I love it.

So we have two emails.

Would you mind reading them

today?

And if people are interested in emailing us, let me get this email.

Prestige TV at spotify.com.

Prestige TV at spotify.com.

And what I have to tell you is not only do we love getting your emails, we do read them.

We can't.

Everybody can't get on the show.

We're so sorry for that, but it warms my heart that you guys are sending us crazy, insightful, emotionally complex, written,

written, just like messages from your heart.

Do you have anything to say to these emailers?

Well, I was wondering, Charles, if you have anything that you want the people to be emailing us about, because these do really spark our curiosity, inspire our conversation.

Do you want to know what I do want to hear more about?

I

need to own up when I'm wrong on this podcast.

I was given false information.

There were people in my life, stewardesses and pilots who were who maybe just were super charming.

Maybe they were like the actress.

They're doing the eye to the lip to the eye move.

Their dating life is very adventurous.

So I

was basically like, yo, I heard that it's popping to be a pilot or a stewardess.

It's really easy to date a lot of people.

That no longer seems to be a case.

I apologize.

I this time would actually like to know if there are any pilots out there, stewardesses, or anybody with a similarity.

Charles, you got to say flight attendant.

Wait, is it?

Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Is stewardess problematic now?

It's just not the name.

Wait, they're not called stewardesses?

Did you, is the last time you flew on Pan Am?

Whoa.

I'm sorry.

I'm not as woke as I thought.

My bad.

My bad.

I'm just getting in there.

I'm just getting in there quick.

No, you know what?

Here's the thing.

You are my maritime.

Sorry, flight attendant.

That's what I would like to know from our listeners.

If you struggle, if you're honestly driving subways, trains, or whatever, and you struggle to date, let me know.

If you're like, I'm really interested and maybe we can like, we can be the Nathan Fielder here and like get your message out there.

What would you like to know?

Well, I also really love when people point out, this is sort of hard to explain, but when people point out things that like, I meant to say the week before and just kind of were on here for an hour and I miss it.

And an example of that is that several people messaged me and emailed us about the, and I noticed this when I watched the episode and we didn't talk about it, that kind of a flaw in one of Nathan's.

And again,

one of the people who emailed about it said, like,

it could be a flaw on purpose.

That is always an option.

Nathan Fielder could be trying to make himself look dumb and not like a trained behavioral scientist.

But when they were doing the experiment with the cloned dogs and they're trying to see if the cloned dog will react to a diabetic seizure, very,

we know that when dogs react to things like that, it is usually like scent-based or pheromone-based or something like that.

So those women pretending to have a diabetic seizure is not going to trigger the same biological response in a dog as it actually happening,

much as those dog owners might have liked to imagine.

So, are you basically saying that Nathan Fielder should have had people who are actually going through a diabetic seizure if he wanted the, if he wanted his experiment to actually be true?

Yes, because that is so within the realm of something Nathan Fielder would do.

Absolutely within the realm.

This is where we're drawing the line.

You, you know, made an entire Panda Express and a recreation of the Houston airport as a skit, as like a, as a little vignette.

I loved the Wings of Love singing competition thing where they broke out into the genres and were still singing Amazing Grace.

I was so pissed when it was like what?

It was country, techno, hip-hop,

electronic,

and RB.

Or I guess maybe techno-electronic were the same one.

Anyway, let's get this easy email.

Okay, okay, back to Wings of Podcasting.

Email us, please.

Ryan hit us with a Nathan Fielder encounter.

And something you said earlier reminded me of this, of Nathan being sort of off-putting.

And he was telling us how Nathan lived in Toronto a few years ago and was honing his skills doing college comedy.

And he had this

daily comedy show that he did.

He said, for a laugh, look up Nathan on your side on YouTube, and you'll see some great early bits with an unfortunate laugh track.

But when Nathan for You launched, Ryan says, I was walking downtown and saw him and said, Hey, I love your new show.

Just had dinner with some friends and told them to watch.

He looked me dead in the eye, paused for a few seconds, and said, Keep doing that.

And then continued on.

I'm not sure which version of Nathan I was speaking to there, but it always stuck with me.

I bet it did.

Hell yeah.

That's player shit.

Hell yeah.

Keep doing that.

My question for you, then, Jodi, as someone who I've realized is the reality show whisperer,

how would you have rehearsed with Nathan in that interaction?

What could he have said better that was a little bit more cheery, a little bit more, may I say, sincere?

I would say, knowing Nathan like I do now from the show, imagine that you are trying to manipulate this man into doing something for you because that is seemingly the only thing that brings a smile to his face.

And I'm going to hit him with the old smile more.

Last email for the day.

Email from Stephen.

Would be fascinated to hear your thoughts about Nathan's influences.

I see an awful lot of Charlie Kaufman here.

Eternal Sunshine, where Jim Carrey as a toddler hides under his mom's kitchen table.

Synecdoche, New York, where a director hires actors to play actors, to play actors, playing different versions of himself.

Charles, I mean, I'm going to be honest, Stephen hit the big ones.

No, I would say this is, I was going to bring up Schenectady actually in

this episode, but when we got this email, I'm like, I'll wait for,

I'll wait to talk about it now.

What I think reminds me, the rehearsal of Schenectady the most is...

I'm learning that the rehearsal is a show about scale and it is about building upon not only sets, but building upon the bits and basically Nathan Fielder

creating a world and a family and a language.

And

I'm almost positive we're probably going to get maybe a third season at the least.

Yeah.

What is now we have the lizard lounge next to a Panda Express that's inside of an airport.

Where does the airport go?

Like the airport's not disappearing.

You know what I would love for people to email us about at prestigv at spotify.com is like your favorite pieces of like world building happening in the rehearsal, like your favorite pieces of lore, the alligator lounge, the returning people.

I just, I don't know what, I mean, wings of love seems here to stay.

That seems, or even the fact that the curse now is a recurring, he keeps like he has, he's like, I'm going to get one more shot in this episode.

What did he say?

Oh, what did he say about Paramount?

I'm trying to like search for the executive.

He says about acting.

This was confusing to me.

I recently acted in a dramatic series, The Curse on Paramount Plus, a network with some questionable viewpoints.

Get them, Nathan.

Get your licks in, babe.

Also, that he kept referring to, as we're seeing on screen, Emma Stone, like one of the most famous A-list actresses we have.

And he just keeps calling her an actor.

Like, I had to pretend like I was in love with the actor on screen, but I wasn't, and I didn't feel anything.

With such a great extra layer, I thought Emma Stone was about to pop up on the rehearsal, like that.

I did too.

Cause she always will.

She'll do anything for Nathan.

She popped up at the alligator lounge, the lizard lounge.

Schenectady.

So that is the Kaufman.

You are absolutely right.

The listener.

Kaufman, Schenectady.

This is the rehearsal is a show that I'm kind of interested in in terms of

depending upon how long he does this,

how big do you think the rehearsal can get?

How big is HBO's budget?

I'm at a point where I'm just like, are we going to end up getting a making of the rehearsal show where like the next season is him just actually being next to Casey Bloys in the HBO offices being like, this is the show now?

I mean, I think if it keeps going, if it keeps iterating at some point, because this was kind of the, the crazy thing about the premise of this season and then kind of the joke of,

or the just like wild absurdist thing of when the trailer came out and receiving it is like, I think at some point we get to Nathan touching the real world.

You know, it was kind of like when we found out what this season was about, it was like, Has Nathan Fielder been affecting air travel?

Like, is that why this happened?

And in fact, it's sort of the opposite.

He's out in front of trying to figure out how to make it safer.

But then I saw people making jokes this week about, like,

was Nathan in the conclave?

Like, did Nathan get us a Chicago Pope, et cetera?

Like, what is,

what are the limitations of Nathan's power?

Seemingly nothing, at least in his ability to

get people to play along, I think is like the

most heartwarming way to put it.

it.

And so I think at some point, if he keeps iterating, keeps figuring out different ways to do rehearsals inside rehearsals inside rehearsals.

I mean, at the point at the end of this episode at which

he was beginning to focus on the chemistry of the actors who were representing the real couple.

so that he could use it as a predictive tool to evaluate how Colin would act on a date so that Colin could better connect with other pilots so that Nathan could learn about pilot behavior just in case there's a potential crash and they could do better in the cockpit.

If he keeps iterating like that, I think at some point he's going to like

touch something real, you know, like touch a story that we already know about and then we see it in season seven of the rehearsal.

And it's like, oh, Nathan Fielder did that.

Outside of movies and TV, are there any reality shows that you feel like were an inspiration?

Because to me, this is like

there is like a line of like 2000s, 2010s, like TLC shows, home makeover shows, like the type of like, I'm going to like build, like part of the show is like, I'm going to build this set and then I'm going to put people in the set.

And like, there's like, I can tell, and there's just like his love of a certain type of 2000s singing competition shows obviously he worked on one where it's like i think a lot of the influences like even in camera work in the jokes in the setups is

sometimes this feels like a love letter to reality tv that we don't get anymore that was a little bit more less produced and a little bit more rough around the edges where like that does that make any sense you watch way more reality tv than me but this reminds me of reality tv that i grew up with as a child.

Yeah, because that reality TV was like a lot less ethical.

I know that reality TV is still crazy, but there was a lot more,

you're getting tricked going on.

You know, I mean, there's the classic like Joe Millionaire, the women think they're dating a millionaire.

He is revealed to be a regular Joe.

Like that was a season that didn't get a, a show that didn't get a second season because that is unethical.

You cannot lie to people.

And I think that is like the line that Nathan is often treading:

you think this is unethical, but uh-uh-uh, it's actually fine because I'm doing this or I'm doing that.

But interestingly, and this doesn't exactly answer your question, but when I was watching this season or this episode, I was like very acutely reminded of something that is currently happening on the Bravo television show Summerhouse, which we cover over on Morally Corrupt on the Ring of Reality feed.

Because Nathan said

about the dating scenarios, I had a theory that the start of a relationship is a great parallel for two pilots.

And then he goes on to talk about kind of like the pressure of how you behave in that time.

He says, but the pressure of trying to show the best version of yourself can prevent you from sharing what you actually feel.

And it, this is literally what is happening on Summerhouse right now between these two house, share house members who started dating.

And this guy, Jesse, who I'm sure could use your help on a hinge profile now because he's definitely single now.

Is we talked about this on the episode this week, is having he's messing everything up with this girl because he wants to seem so cool and secure that he's not allowing her to know him.

And this is my quibble with Nathan experimenting like this with the love life of Colin and wanting to relay it over to the professional life is that like, let's say Colin kicks off a relationship with Emma in a situation where he's been acting.

That might get you a kiss, but it's not going to get you love.

To be loved is to be known.

He's got to let him be known.

It's 2021.

I could not disagree more.

This is 2025.

There's no such thing as love anymore.

Okay.

Oh, like

Jaded Charles.

Like, no, no, no, no, no.

Cynical, critical Charles.

Yes, I'm back.

Okay.

I agree with you.

Let them know you, Charles.

Let the people know you.

I'm just, all I'm saying is, is that if you want to win, pull up the walls.

Don't let anybody know the real you.

Everything is like be an actor.

Nathan is right.

Who cares?

Marry for money, okay?

Marry for comfort.

It is the end times.

That love shit is out of the door.

Hey, Charles, as a bit of an intellectual man yourself, I got a lady you should meet.

As a man with a reserved academic sexuality, I know a woman who I could set you up with.

So I'll give you a number and it doesn't have to be love.

It just has to be the connection.

It might be.

But with that, yo, that has been our episode of the Prestige TV.

Thank you to

the best head captain that a co-pilot could ever ask for, Jodi Walker.

Shout out everybody who makes this podcast possible.

I'm talking about CT.

I'm talking about Kai Grady.

I'm talking about Justin Sales.

We will be back next week to talk about the rehearsal.

Send in all your questions.

Thank y'all for listening.

And, you know,

have a nice stream about Einstein.