‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 7: Calm Before the Storm

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The Prestige the prestige tv podcast presented by the ringer podcast network you can watch us as a video on spotify you can watch us on the ringer dash tv youtube channel yeah yeah we have been here that's joanne robinson mallie rubin we've here every episode. This will be the last time we actually had a chance to prepare for an episode recap.
Spoiler, I know we put these up right after the show, but we actually taped them a few days before. The season finale, we're just going to be right after live.
Maybe we go live on YouTube. Who knows? That would be interesting.
I mean, if we're going to do it right away, it might as well. Might as well go live.
Otherwise, we should watch the episode three times. I know.
I'm going to miss it because I feel like I watched this one three times because I really felt like I was missing stuff. Anyway, each episode's had a theme that we've talked about at the top.
This was the alcohol and violence episode. Okay.
Right? We just start out with like little flashes of movie tie fighters beating the shit out of each other and then just kind of kind of go sideways there's booze and there's violence or the hint of violence and uh i know what my favorite part of the show was but what what was uh what was your big takeaway joanna was your favorite part alexi's girlfriend slapping him in the dick? Or was that your favorite part, Mallory? I enjoyed the dick slap followed by the kind of just like batting Laurie's head as she fell out of the window the way a cat bats around a toy mouse. Right.
That was really remarkable stuff. That was, I think, a real dick slap.
Yeah. I was going to do this later, but I don't think that I think they went method acting on that one.
Sensational stuff. To answer your question in seriousness, do you want to know what's wild? What's true about me coming out of this episode? Yeah.
I'm most deeply invested in Saxon Ratliff. It happened! We got her! I knew it! We got her! I knew it.
I was so prepared today to come in and beg you to join us. I knew it.
I'm on the team. And I wasn't even going to say join us on the dark side because I don't think it is the dark side anymore.
I never gave up. I always believed.
We got a really compelling email about how the Buddha before he became. Wow, I'm thrilled right now.
No, no, no. Listen to this.
The Buddha before he became the Buddha was like a pampered prince who goes through this sort of debaucherous night and comes out the other side and dedicates his life to spiritualism. Is Saxon Ratliff...
It's great. ...the Buddha of White Lotus Season 3? All he needed was mind-altering drugs and get jerked off by his brother.
And now he's come out the other side. What a family wank.
What a great prescription for everyone else. We'll own it solve.
Yeah. I felt like maybe we were heading this way in episode seven because I was like, wow, Saxon's a little more sympathetic than I was expecting.
And then... They got me.
They really brought it back. Also, just another incredible performance from Patrick Schwarzenegger.
I mean, he's been great. Soulful.
Through the whole time. Despite what Chelsea would say.
Well would say. Well, now he's growing a baby soul is what I would say.
Yeah, you can't do it in 10 minutes. We learned that from Chelsea, but you could start to do it in 10 minutes.
Well, it's funny that the couple of Saxon and Chelsea are the most interesting combo on the show now. I could spend every single day with them.
I'm like, more. Where's this going? I think the acting is so good on her side the meditation i just like her so much what happened when do we get her next amy lou yeah i don't want to give up on amy lou i i need her in my tv life i need her on another show my assumption is that saxon and chelsea oh interesting i still haven't watched the pit.
My assumption is that Saxon and Chelsea will start a vlog after their journey in

Thailand. Oh, interesting.
I still want to watch The Pit. My assumption is that Saxon and Chelsea will start a vlog after their journey in Thailand,

and we will be able to watch every day.

They're wonderful.

The meditation scene between the two of them, while probably a total of 75 seconds,

was some of the most riveting TV I've ever seen in my life.

Well, there's also the tension because as much as I am rooting for Saxon and his baby soul,

I still am a Chelsea Rick Truther, personally. And so— I've got some challenges to work through on that front of struggling.
Absolutely. But I did not want them to hook up.
But I did enjoy the tension of the will-they-won't-they, you know? Agreed. I need Chelsea to want more than Rick.
I also have been deeply invested in Rick and Chelsea. More than, like, fixing him and.
Yeah. And more than somebody who never answers her phone calls and always tells her she's fucking annoying.
Like she deserves better than that. You're deeply invested in a younger man settling for an older husband.
Younger woman. Yeah.
That's it? That was where you landed? You know, among, as you know, I believe that among consenting adults age is but a number. You know, that's how i've long felt about it um you know you mentioned the the little glimpses of the the muay thai fights the way that that was like stitched throughout the episode these like really charged interstitials and the number of pairs or groups trios throughout this episode who were facing off that yeah we have the we'll talk about obviously the piper locky scene but the way that that we went into that speech how everybody has the capacity to kill the nature of violence obviously our guy guy talk has some stuff to say about this but like we're first hearing that even though it's a Piper Lockie scene while we're looking at Rick's face I thought this was a great episode for taking these disparate plots and stitching them together thematically, to your point.
And this like the prevalence of the con man, the prevalence of desire, the questions of identity, the question of whether you give into that instinct for violence or are afraid of it. Fascinating thematic episode.
And I liked the kind of like hallucinatory dream-like quality too of the slow-mo and the zooms, the close looks at faces as people were reflecting on the choices they were going to make. It was like a very moody penultimate episode.
Can I hit you with one more hot take? One more hot take before I want to hear what your favorite part of the episode was. The Rick storyline? Yeah.
It's not satisfying me. Yeah.
What happens here, if this is like the crescendo of Rick's storyline, this is not what I would use Walton Goggins for personally. I've been waiting and sort of reserving hope that we were going to get something sort of big.
And that's not what I felt like we got in the Scott Glenn confrontation, you know? Yeah. Bill, let's hear it.
Okay. Counter.
Okay. Yeah.
As soon as they're in Bangkok and Frank is like, fuck this. Yeah.
I'll be sober again tomorrow. Yeah.
Let's go party. I was the most excited I've been for TV in like three years.
No, the let's go party sequence was great. I'll tell you this.
That could have just been its own episode. We could have dumped everyone else on the show and done an episode nine bonus

episode of them in Bangkok.

I would have signed up.

Is that what you think is going to make me mad?

Have we gotten to the part where you're making me mad yet?

No, we haven't nearly gotten to the part yet.

I agree. I was so pumped.

When they did the low

going down shot of the strip joint

with the cage and them in the room

and I'm like, let's go.

I don't care about any characters

anymore. We're smoking pipes.
We're snorting

lines. A lot going on.

And Rockwell. He's been

unbelievable every second. I can't say enough.

Sam was great in this episode. I can't say enough.

Though I still have notes about them as con artists.

Wow. I hope more notes

than ever because this was frankly an appalling

performance. We'll hit them.

One other aspect of the violence part because it's all kinds of violence, right? There's actual violence. There's impending violence.
There's dick slaps. There's verbal violence.
Implied violence. Take my blood money or else.
Right. And kind of whatever Piper was doing to Lockie in that scene, that's almost like emotional violence.

But my favorite kind of violence is three female friends

who secretly hate each other.

Holy shit.

Oh, my God.

What is it?

That was the...

Friendship violence.

Thrilla and vanilla of this episode.

Oh, my Lord.

We were building.

We were waiting.

We've been waiting since episode one.

When are they going to do it?

Oh, yeah.

And Carrie Coon, who's just been unleashed.

She's been absolutely unleashed. Like Jameer Gibbs.
Jameer Gibbs getting 30 carries in a game. Laurie.
I don't even know what Jacqueline's doing anymore. She just seems so over it and so angry.
I wrote oh brother in caps marks when she said, I'll be the bad guy. I'm used to it.
I was just like oh brother. She's all like little words as possible and like really shitty faces and then you have Kate who's like I'm just not emotionally equipped to do any of this.
Another great Kate episode. And then Carrie Coons like just riveting.
Riveting. Incredible.
And yet I still wanted to be in Bangkok the entire time with those two guys. Interesting.
Like where are we going next next guys how many are we bringing back to the whole oh four great so you would have spent the entire episode in bangkok at the uh okay i'm supposed to be your lifelong friend but you've ruined your sobriety for me i've led you down this path and i'm just gonna sit on a couch and smile that's where you want the whole episode i wanted the whole episode to be chelsea and saxon same she throws all of the books in it. I just wanted to say in that moment forever, that's where you would have spent the whole episode too.
Or the three ladies just drinking Rose. Where is this Rose? The rare is this Rose.
It killed me. It had been maybe 20 seconds.
They just ordered it for 10 seconds. Great stuff.
I thought that Laurie looked amazing in this episode. Like, all season they've been trying to sort of sell us on Carrie Coon.
Yes. Slightly rumpled mess, but she comes in there and they're like, hilarious and absurd.
You can only fight that angle for so long. What a farce.
Carrie Coon's winning out eventually. We are all Alexi just waiting to compliment Lori's incredible hair and then saying, PayPal? Zell? Well, his mother is relaxed.
Got him in cash app? I was actually quite nervous because when he started that Nigerian prince move on her, he had his hand on the top of her head and I was like, is this going to go somewhere terrifying? But it just went Laurie sort of bare ass running her way out the window. Bare ass.
The bare ass thinks it was great. I liked when she joined them at the fight and the Russians showed up and she just took the guy's beer.
Yeah. And just started swinging it.
Lori just feeling herself. Yeah.
Lori easily best hang on the show. Ah, yeah.
No question. Who are you hanging out with? Chelsea.
Who's a safer best? Chelsea's a good hang except every three minutes she's like i need you to leave so i can call rick who won't answer my call which i think gets a little old honestly i do love chelsea but that's a little tough if that's the it just really feels to me and i and i know chloe great hang i know that this is like a mansion a soft romantic whatever but like I really feel like Rick is just going through something specific.

If it's always like this, that's terrible.

If Rick is having a crisis of his soul and he can go one way or another

and Chelsea's like, I need to keep this tether or else I'm going to lose him,

then I understand.

But yeah, if it's always like that, then it's not great.

This is a good game.

Good hang, bad hang?

Yeah. I mean...
Worst hang, Tim. Tim is a nightmare.
Tim has like moved past fun. Tim, what's wrong? No, nothing.
No, I'm fine. The like falling head as he was sitting next to Gary was just like swaying.
He's like fucking looking at the Blair Witch Wall. All season, he's been like, I need someone in the to ask to really sit him down and be like what the fuck is going on with you once again Saxon Saxon the hero we needed a man of character and quality I will say we got now he was entirely motivated by self interest but still he asked if his dad was okay we got a great email from listener David who was pointing out the fact that like Tim has just been walking swaying around stumbling around with a full bottle or a half bottle of Loraz Cameron's pocket.
It would just be Rattlin. Like a Tic Tac.
Rattlin' Tim is what he would be. Rattlin' Tim is a great thing.
Also, you only brought— Rattlin' Tim, Rattlin'—I love it. You only brought one sleeping t-shirt on the trip? You're just going to wear that Duke shirt every night for 10 hours a day? Or he brought five Duke t-shirts.
Oh, that's possible. Oh, that is possible.
He does love Duke. That seems right.
That seems right. But we would have the Duke blue in the mix.
Yeah, bring a couple ones. We wouldn't just have the all gray t-shirts, though maybe we would, honestly, with Tim Ratliff.
Though I don't know. He has a lot of pastels in his wardrobe, typically.
I'm surprised Mike White didn't throw in the Duke lacrosse t-shirt at some point and just keep bent up. You're right.
That would have been just very white lotus. Or the later t-shirt.
Yeah. Just a lot of Duke sense.
When will we be talking about Saxon's wardrobe in this episode, which to me was just totally like Mad Men by way of Todd Snyder. I loved it.
I thought it was wonderful. Have you been served any Saxon shirts on Instagram ads? I have to be honest.
I shop at Todd Snyder pretty regularly.

I don't actually know that that shirt is from there,

but I wouldn't know if I had been served a new ad,

unlike for Lockie's wardrobe,

which I'm still disturbed by.

All right, here we go.

I'm going to make Joanna mad

with at least one of these.

Okay, we're seeing this.

A special thing you guys didn't know I was doing this.

Great, we love that so much.

Seven episodes.

We've watched these episodes a bunch of times each.

I have some nitpicks after seven episodes.

We're going to start coming strong with the nitpicks.

Great.

Number one. No particular order.
Okay.

You won't get mad at this one. The movie tie footage

is just not that good. I agree.
I didn't like

how it was shot. I think he should have hired

somebody who filmed sports

for a living. Sports are.

If they had come to the sports helper,

I would have said, go find

the guys who do 24-7

Thank you. somebody who films sports for a living.
Sports are. If they had come to the sports helper, I would have said, go find the guys who do 24-7 for HBO or something.
I didn't mind the sort of leading up to the fight, the sort of balletic interlude with the warming up orchestra and stuff like that. But once you're at the fight.
You were so excited for sports. I wanted some wide shots.
I wanted to see the guys circle each other. I thought they left too much at the table.
All right, there's one. Okay.
Number two. Now, this one might make Joey mad.
Okay. I've felt this way deep down for a couple episodes, and now I'm just going to come out and say it.
Do you want to guess before he says it? I don't think Jason Isaacs, I don't think it's that hard of a part, and I think he's fucking boring. You know what? This is the episode where I agree with you.
Yeah, same. Oh, great.
This is the episode where we're just like one more. He's an autopilot.
We did not modulate anything inside of this episode. It's not like I think he's doing a bad job.
I'm just sort of like, you need to give me something more of I'm having a dream sequence where I'm going to kill myself and my family. I just think if you're going to, not that I'm going to give the great Mike White any notes, but I just think'd be more manic and the parts more far enough he's like all of a sudden super hyper

what are we doing today and like trying to overcompensate

and then he goes back to being

can I say here's my bear

nit to pick

do you think we have a 6 episode story

and an 8 episode back

I think it's a great point

I think it could be a seven episode.

Right,

because last season,

so season one was six,

season two was seven,

this is eight,

and now we have four,

the last four episodes

have been two days,

right?

We did the day and the night.

I just,

we've solved Tim Ratliff

two episodes ago.

His career fell apart

and his family's

going to be disappointed

and he might kill himself.

That's like two scenes.

Or if something else happens,

if again, he doesn't

wind up being in trouble or whatever, it's just been

too long in this sort of...

Yeah, I agree. I loved

the monastery scene last week. I thought that was really,

really good. I really loved that.
But this week

I'm just like, you're giving me nothing else. When Saxon

confronts him and he just once

again gives him the like, we're fine, kid

response, I'm like, you're not

going to give me any movement on this guy?

It's interesting. I mean, I wonder if there's like,

tracking the distinction across generations

Thank you. again gives him the like we're fine kid response i'm like you're not going to give me any movement on this guy it's interesting i mean i wonder if there's like the tracking the distinction across generations and white lotus has always been kind of fascinating and the rat lift kids in ways both good and bad have all really been characters on an arc right they've all gone they have all gone through some really notable change and uh reflection and introspection we think, were most swept up by Tim's arc in the first few episodes and now have felt the halting of that, the arrested development of that a little bit.
And Vicky never had that, kind of by design, right? But so something is, I think the fact that we've moved so much with the kids has made that actually feel more palpably lacking over the last couple episodes with the parents, which is interesting, just inside of that family unit. Is this show better if Rick had just brought Tim with him to Bangkok with Frank to pretend to be the DP? You just wanted everyone to go to Bangkok.
You're like, everyone comes to Bangkok. I'm just trying to think of a way to make Tim more interesting other than just having no personality.
Like, who would see Tim at a party and be like, yo, man, pull up a chair.

I mean, Greg Gary, I guess.

Yeah, I'm going to go have a drink

with this super sad brooding guy over there

who's just hammered at all times.

Okay, you didn't succeed in making me mad.

What else you got?

This one, well.

Okay, bring it.

Among the most boring scenes in the history of HBO,

the moot guy talk scenes.

I've had it.

I can't do it anymore.

You know what?

I agree.

Interesting.

Whoa!

Yeah.

Because again, we're just drawing out

Thank you. of HBO, the Mook Guy Talk scenes.
I've had it. I can't do it anymore.
You know what? I agree. Interesting.
Whoa! Yeah. Because again, we're just drawing out and we're heading towards what feels like the inevitable conclusion, which is something that Mallory clocked really early on, which is this idea that perhaps Guy Talk is involved in this gunfight in order because Mook...
And I don't like the way these characters feel so one-dimensional to me. It's like he is in love with her but is shy and retiring.
And she wants ambition and violence, I guess. I'll go further.
Why the hell has she attracted him in the first place? Because everything we found out about her in the seventh episode is kind of like the danger. he's good men should be men men should be ambitious and fight an objectively attractive person two minutes with them and it's like this guy's a softy here's an objectively attractive person i've been friends with my whole life and i see him yes wanting more because that's sort of the indication that he gave her maybe i can get my hot friend in the exciting package that I've always wanted a twofer.
Why not? I think more likely she's with one of Cetela's bodyguards. I'm sure that's where it's at.
That's like her type. It's clearly her type.
Yeah. I think that's another interesting thing about this season where Saxon has been so genuinely interesting to watch because he is routinely being confronted by people who are not a part of his life.

Now, broadly, the premise of White Lotus is, as we've talked about many times, you could

escape your whatever's back home, but you can't escape yourself.

And often you can't escape your family or your best friends or whomever you're on vacation

with.

But scene to scene, he literally does, right? He's with Chelsea, he's with Chloe, he's with Lachlan. He's with Lachlan.
But, you know, Mook and Guy Toc have known each other their entire lives. So it makes, like, on the one hand, this idea that he finally musters the courage to tell her how he feels.
Really interesting. But on the other hand, like, the conversation in this episode where he's like, you know, I just, like, never, I would never feel good about doing that.
You kind of, like, wonder why they never would have talked about that. It's not only that.
I just don't feel like I learned anything new about their characters this week, about Rick this week, honestly. like the Rick on the bottom of my notes i have what's not working and i wrote guy talk and mook and i wrote rick because not just that we were headed towards a conclusion that we kind of saw coming because we saw incest coming you like it doesn't matter if we see it coming it's about how it's executed and it wasn't executed in a way where I feel like I'm like, wow, that character really went through something.
Can I zag on Rick? Please. Maybe I interpreted it differently because I actually really liked that whole scene.
Yeah. Tell me.
I might be wrong. But to me, it was about when you build something up in your head for years and years and years about how it's going to play out when it happens and this becomes part of your

identity in life. Yes.
And then he

goes and it's like he goes there

Scott Glenn's this old

frail. Right.
Which he says. Kind of near

the end of his life. Which he says.
Near the end of his life.

Has this

moment. Doesn't even want to

hit him. Because it's like I don't win

if I do this. So shoves him out.
They leave.

And that thing in the end where he's sitting in thing yeah to me I interpreted that as I was I was haunted by this thing for 20 years turned out whatever and now where am I going and kind of where I'm going is I think I'm just gonna be a huge fuck up that's so. I think it's slightly different.
Okay. But mostly the same.

Like I think you're,

I share your interpretation of that scene.

Scott Glenn hits him with the Don Draper.

I don't think about you at all.

You know,

like that's how that all goes down.

He leaves,

he goes out with Frank.

They party.

He's,

you see him in that scene.

You see Chelsea.

Yeah.

Calling him and calling him and getting nothing. And if you're Mallory at home, you're like, Oh my God, come on.
And then you see him in that scene. You see Chelsea calling him and calling him and getting nothing.
And if you're Mallory at home, you're like, oh, my God, come on. Sex is right there.
And then you see him get in the elevator and, like, surrounded by topless women. Couldn't be happier.
Like, he's, like. But I kind of think the smile on his face is like, I don't need this anymore.
Honestly. And we'll see what it goes in the finale.
Oh, interesting. But I think that smile on his face is like, he's been drinking all night.
He's been with them. But I don't think he's going to have sex with any of those women.
I don't think he's going to smoke anything out of a pipe the way that Frank is. I don't think he's going to snort anything.
I think he's just sort of like, I drank a bunch of whiskey. I saw Bangkok.
I'm going to go back to Chelsea and we're going to have a great life together. Interesting, because he doesn't call or reach out to her, which makes me think the opposite.
I think they're kind of trying to fake you out with that last shot. All right.
I mean, we'll see. I found myself wondering when Frank asked him like, okay, so you got, you got closure? And he's like, yeah.
Yeah. Like, did he though? Because he didn't, it just feels.
Isn't that the point point? It's like sometimes you just don't get closure. But this is, sure.
Yeah, absolutely. You'd be like, man, someday I'm going to, and then you have the convo.
And it's like, huh. But if this were the defining truth of your life, like this quest and the absence of this thing.
But maybe he realized that it shouldn't have been and that he was being stupid the whole time. For sure.
Well, I don't think he felt he was being stupid. I think he felt validated in his obsession.
And then like, well, it'll be interesting to see, like you said, what he says to Chelsea about it next week. That's probably the real tell.
I mean, obviously it was, we all wanted him to not use the gun, to pull away. And so the fact that he wanted a tease.
I was. I was excited was excited for it i also wanted kill that guy i wanted jim to be like because he's like gloria like he obviously knows who he's talking about i wanted him to be like does he so you're say something like to actually say something i rewound that scene multiple times i'm like what is scott glenn trying to communicate in that line read of Gloria Hatchet? Is it like, I know who she is or I don't know who the fuck you're talking about? I actually don't have a clear read on that.
I interpret it as I remember the name. Yeah.
But this is why you're here. Almost like somebody in consequence of their pastor's life.
Another follow-up question? Yeah. I don't know.

I think I needed that scene

to just have like

two more exchanges.

Yeah.

And then I agree with you

that it's just sort of like,

oh, I built this up

and it was nothing.

I think that is like

a good story to tell

and one I wouldn't mind watching.

But there was just something

in that scene

that just sort of like,

but maybe to your point,

that's how I'm supposed to feel.

Just sort of like

deflated by it, you know?

You know what was great

about that scene?

All the cuts to Cetala and Frank slash Steve watching her movie?

That was incredible.

You should just put that whole thing on YouTube, first of all.

Remarkable.

But Scott Glenn's office was just absolutely fantastic.

Whole house was cool.

I was like, oh my God.

I was looking at every shelf he did, all the the table choices that was like a man's man office dark dark glossy were you looking at every photo of a young jim hollinger waiting for rick to say is that great gary in a cowboy ass he looks a lot like me i actually thought they were headed that way i I was surprised they didn't do that. But then I was also enjoying the

Scott Glenn career retrospective photos

where it's like, oh, they grabbed something from

Urban Cowboy.

100% Urban Cowboy.

Can I take you quickly

to

White People Buddhism Corner?

You can do that right after this break.

Wow.

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Max one offer per account. All right, what do you got? so in that exchange

Rick says

the secret

and

right

so

you subject to change. Max one offer per account.
All right, what do you got? So in that exchange, Rick says, the secret in life is knowing when to stop. Someone once said the secret in life is knowing when to stop.
The person who said that is Alan Watts, famous white guy Buddhist. And I grew up in Mill Valley, California, which is like Mecca for white people who have found Buddhism.
And that's where Alan Watts lived his his life near Green Gulch farm at the Druid Heights. Like this is, this is a guy, this is like a Bay area.
I have brought Buddhism to the white people guy. He wrote the way of Zen.
1957 was like this huge book, but he was a hugely controversial figure because like, you know, a lot, plenty of people are like, thank you for bringing Buddhism to us. And plenty of people were like, is this the guy we want to be listening to about Buddhism? And I just want one last biological fact about Alan Watts, who I guess famously said the secret in life is knowing when to stop.
He married three times, had seven children, and died of alcoholism. So that does not sound to me like a guy who knows when to stop, personally.
I loved all that information, but I think you should have said Buddhism. I just said Buddhism.
Okay, let me take it again. Buddhism.
I have two more small nitpicks. Please.
I'm so disappointed I couldn't. Anger me? Yeah.
Is all you want in life? I was excited for a little tension. I don't think anybody would have not had their phone for this long.
But, okay. It's five rat lifts.
I just think. But why does everyone else get to keep their phones? Pam's the only stickler? Chelsea's got her phone.
She's calling Rick all the time. I just think it's.
Kate is like, I'm texting Laurie. They all have their phones except the Ratliff's.
I think it's so we don't know that he's off the hook. But then that's kind of overly convenient and silly.
I just think dad is such a mess at this point that they're like, dad hasn't talked to us in three days. I'm going to go get my phone.
Yeah. Or if you're Saxon and your dad is acting like a complete maniac like this, you're not going to be like, I got to get my phone he's got to be hiding something from me I just think you'd be more cunning about it than they are my last one, it's a big one, I can't wait for your take I just don't think the three fancy cougars would have stayed in touch period, at all I don't think they're in touch anymore I think it's like some occasional texting and maybe a happy birthday let me take you to my favorite um corner which is i listen to an interview corner and oh i was waiting leslie leslie bibb said that she feels like kate is the person who has like kept this group together makes sense and that laurie and Jacqueline don't really talk to each other, but she talks to Lori and she talks to Jacqueline.
Yeah. And that it was like, even though Jacqueline's the one paying for this trip, it was sort of like Kate's idea of like, let's all get together and go on a trip, a girl's trip, a victory tour together as part of her perfectionism.
Perfect wife, perfect mom. I've got my perfect friends.
my perfect friends, my Europe back home. That kind of makes sense to me.
My takeaway after seven episodes now, I don't think Jacqueline and Lori have talked on the phone probably in three and a half, four years. I agree.
And I think they maybe text every once in a while. I think that's canon.
But the way they set it up in the first episode, it seemed like they were way closer. I've been thinking a lot about like the boat ride, you know, we get the boat ride here and then the boat ride back and the boat ride here in the opening episode, again, like Mike White called them the blonde blob.
They're like a three-headed sort of giggling and like as close as can be. And can't you just see them going, if they all make it,

going back home,

each sitting on like a different part of the ship.

And they're like never.

And that's how this sounds.

They're like never going to talk to each other again.

Or perhaps more depressing than that,

not doing that.

Because that would actually be the healthy thing.

Oh, like faking it?

Yeah.

Continuing to like engage in this shared delusion that they have something to hold on to. Like that, that would be, I think, more tragic, right? Here's what I, we have to keep telling each other we're committed to this friendship.
I mean, is that rose? That rose looked good when it came. Beautiful hue.
A large, frosty glass of rose. Delightful.
Can we have that for the finale? Yeah. It's, Mike White just, he knows how to play the hits.
I agree. This group is clearly starting it out with Rosé with this much tension.
Can I hit you with my biggest nitpick? No, hottest take? Well, maybe it's a nitpick. Okay.
I also don't think the Belinda story has been interesting. You've been saying this all season.
I didn't even want to go there anymore. It's still falling flat for me.
But what I do suspect, I think she's going to take that money. For Zion.
Because he's like, do this? And for Porn Try, who's like, let's start a spa together. I mean...
I think she's taking that money. I think it's...
I agree. But if I were...
If I were Belinda, I'm holding out more than $100,000. You have seen the house now? Yeah.
You've way more than. For $250,000, maybe I won't tell anyone.
You don't say yes for a cent less than a million. Are you kidding? You saw that house? Tanya was canonically worth half a billion dollars.
I would say $500,000. That's what I'd say.
Half a mil. She counters at a million.
Maybe she settles at $500,000. You also don't want to get caught or you want to do it as seamlessly as possible.
He's managed to evade detection for two years. That's another one of my small nitpicks was how did he escape with this much money? Yeah.
How much money did Jennifer Kulich have? A ton.

$500 million.

But if the authorities are looking for him, can't they just follow the money?

Right.

Wouldn't they be able to find him with a money trail?

For the amount of money he apparently has that he could buy a house like that and live

whatever and have a whole staff and a yacht and all that stuff.

I feel like that's a lot of red flags all over the place for whoever. And then all of his crew died, right? So maybe it would be no trace to him? Well, they were like...
I don't know that they had any real connection to him other than his history with Quentin, right? Are you ready for me to slightly zag on Greg Gary? You're into it. I'm not into it, but I'm saying...
Your favorite character is Saxon and your second favorite is Greg Barry. I'm just saying, do we think he's actually a killer? Yes.
Yes. Everything went badly with Tanya.
But I don't think he has it in him to kill Belinda. And now we know that he just wants to watch Saxon.
And I actually believe that story. I can't wait to talk about that.
I can't wait to talk about that. So we were like, ooh, is he going to try to kill Saxon? Ooh, is he trying to kill Belinda? No, he wants to watch Saxon have sex with Chloe and he wants to pay Belinda off.
I think that he would, if it came down to it, have nary a qualm about ending Belinda's life. I believe that he sincerely does not want to complicate his life.

He doesn't want the mess. He doesn't

want a body on his doorstep, a doorstep

he genuinely hopes he never has to leave.

Once again, I just think bathing

him in red light. Great outfit.

Bathing him in red light and having him glower

down at her feels like a little

Mike White heavy-handed, I'm gonna

switch

the flip, flip the switch on this.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

We'll see.

Yeah.

Start of the episode.

We start out with Rick and Frank meets Itala, her husband.

Crushed it.

The head monk.

What's that guy's name?

Do we know yet?

Yeah.

Head guy?

Yeah.

No.

Luang Portera.

He's preaching its violence, spiritual harm to the victim and the perpetrator. Mallory.
This was great. I loved this.
The Yoda vibes. Have you, so we literally get violence, aggression, anger stem from the same source, fear.
Bill, have you ever heard that fear is the path to the dark side? Remember last week we invoked Star Wars? I mean, this is it, right? Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
George Lucas took all of this from Eastern

religion. He sure did.
You really feel it here. How did you feel about when he says fear and then

we go on Guy Talks' face? Yes, I liked that we got, every one of us has the capacity to kill

Rick's face. Fear, Guy Talks' face, and the violence of spiritual harm to the victim and perpetrator.

Tim, Poppin' Pills.

Like, all of them mixed in over that sequence.

Wonderful.

Sit with your feelings.

Not everybody can sit with their feelings.

Can you sit with your feelings?

Only if I'm in an airplane and the Wi-Fi's out.

Hell.

Hell is a flight with no Wi-Fi.

If you're raw dog in a flight,

you can sit with your feelings.

Sit with the feelings. Yeah.
You don't just, like, listen to don't just listen to... You don't have anything downloaded already for the flight? I download pods.
Yeah, yeah. Saxon convinces parents to go to a party with the boat people? Astonishing stuff.
I'm already dolled up. Budden and Zion debate going to Greg Gary's party and the fancies go to dinner so they can just hate each other's guts.
So that's how we started.

Alright, we'll talk Frank and Rick first.

So, this is so ridiculous

that they're doing this

like... They're shit con.

But I actually loved

The Enforcer, The Executor,

The Notary. That's a trilogy.

I thought it was so fucking funny.

Was that inspired by The Accountant, you think? I think so.

It's a fun...

What's your movie? It's a fun

caper. It's a thriller.
There's

Killin' the I thought that was so fucking funny. Was that inspired by The Accountant, you think? I think so.
It's a fun... The Accountant part two.

What's your movie?

It's a fun caper.

It's a thriller.

There's killings.

There's double crossings and action.

It's just like every genre that exists.

If I'm Frank, Frank is a better person than I am.

Because Frank comes out of there and he's like, let's paint the town red.

I'd be like, dude, fuck you. Fuck you for giving me no prep whatsoever.
What if they'd be like, hey, here are four titles that she did. Give her 15 minutes.
Here's what I told her about what the movie was about. Yeah, and Rick had the launch, right, where he should be prepared for these questions because she asked him questions that he was not prepared.
Sounds like Rick's not competent. And then Rick was just sitting there staring down Jim Hollander.
I was so, I was so unfaggravated. What do you think Rick did for a living? Con man.
This and that, as Carrie would say. He can't have survived this long on those shoddy, shoddy con skills.
He's a terrible con man, though. He's so bad.
Well, I think they were both pretty bad at it. I think they've had enough money to go to the White Lotus.
There's a reason that Frank was like, I had to leave America. And Rick is like, I can't go back to Australia.
They're bad at this. Clearly.
Wait, do you guys have an updated theory for what show Jacqueline is on? Because Jim and Sitala were like, yeah, you know, this actress is staying at our hotel. It's always been CBS.
So it's something they watch. Something Blue Bloods-ish.
Well, that's what Sitala said at the beginning. She's like, my husband and I love it.
We know it's a Blue Bloods type show. We know from this exchange now that Jim is only watching stuff that Cetola watches.
He's not the one who brought them to that. Does that any other? No? It's CBS.
It's probably 10 o'clock. She's either a detective or she's married to the sergeant.
Or she's a doctor. Oh, she's a doctor.
Right. She's a surgeon.
Grey's yeah it's one of those like an Ellen Pompeo type of oh I like that that's good I feel like they would have mentioned it if it was a doctor show and by the way Mike Wade fuck you this could have been a good scene why couldn't we have heard what Jack will show us he deliberately didn't want to tell us why couldn't we have seen it on the TV? For this reason right now.

And then the forgetting Sarah Marshall

where they show a quip of the procedural.

So that we could be debating it right now.

Just like we're debating why Rick

couldn't tell Frank slash Steve.

Or by the way, remember his cover name?

I mean, that is just fucking shameful,

embarrassing shit from Rick.

But also, why does he have a cover name?

Right.

Exactly.

Nobody knows who Frank is. The best part was the prostitute part.
Yeah. Right.
No, no, no. You're a madam.
Don't come up with the movies you directed. Don't actually get any titles for the film she's been in.
But if you're going to share one thing, say, by the way, I told her that we're coming to their house because you're interested in basing the character off her. So if you're going to offer up anything, maybe don't say that she's a prostitute and became a madam.
And if you're Jim Hollinger and you're not like actively senile, why are you going to a second location with this guy who's just been staring holes in you and is clearly there not to put your wife in a movie? Let's go to the den! Yeah, let's go to my den alone without any of my security. My kind of drinker.
Watching it, I was interpreted as, we're going to find out Rick's son. Yeah.
And then they didn't do that at all. They didn't.
And it just seemed like. Do you guys think that's off the table for the finale? I think that could still happen.
Well, they didn't have one moment when he chugged the drink. He was like, my kind of drinker.
And Scott Glenn was like, my kind of guy. Like, my kind of drinker.
Yeah. And I think they picked young photos of Scott Glenn that look like Walton.ton i don't think it's off the table but i would be surprised if we got more of this in the finale then again it's a 90 minute finale and rick is presumably going back to their yeah well their property okay save it for predictions because yeah what the bodyguards have to pursue but are they pursuing to kill him or to say he saw one movie you were royalty or something like a queen and she's like yeah that one's a great um Scott Glenn says after we take it to then this is a great country not a lot of red tape if you want to cut it you have lots of options yep interesting um did you guys think that um Frank slash Steve was gonna maybe try to fuck Cetala? He's like, give him three more whiskeys.
And I'm sure he would. Anything could happen.
Also, when the drinks are delivered and he's like, what's your name? You're lovely. Yeah.
Eye on the prize, Frank Steve. Eye on the prize.
I've always been partial to the actors who order a drink, who are falling off the rag and calling the waitress or the bartender, Darlin. Oh, interesting.
I'll takeender darlin I'll take another one darlin I'm just not cool enough to ever do that I also like darlin darlin's good when a waitress calls you darlin oh darlin either way is great darlin is good I've fantasized about this moment a thousand times you ruin my fucking life can't Can't do a quick exit. Some nitpicks on the quick exit.
I think one bodyguard goes to the house and the other one is probably like, why are these fucking guys hightailing you out of here? Running to a boat? I hope that Rick tells Mook that those bodyguards are absolutely inept and not any better than guy talk, honestly, at their jobs. They're like the Austin Powers bodyguards just falling into an oil vat.

One thing before we get to their not-so-hasty escape is when Scott Glenn's Jim Hollinger says,

I'm more careful.

I have more to lose.

I was sort of hoping, though I don't feel like I really saw it.

I was sort of hoping I would see Rick absorb that and think about Chelsea and say,

I have something to lose in this moment. I can't just shoot this guy or whatever because it puts at risk a precious thing that I have, which is Amy Lou Wood, our favorite.
I think particularly in this season where, okay, for Jim Hollinger, this has been a source of clarity and perspective. But for someone like Tim Ratliff, that is like an anchor pulling him ever deeper into the abyss, right? All of the things that he fears to lose.
So like characters respond to that idea differently, which I think would have made it even more compelling to see Rick really like interrogate it. But also what are we talking about when we talk about things to lose? Are we talking about material things and stature? Are we talking about relationships? Family respect, yeah.
For Tim, like it kind of everything right now, right? The way that now he has Saxon on top of Vicky saying, I basically have nothing. Are we sure Rick didn't come to the conclusion that maybe he doesn't need to be with Chelsea or shouldn't be? He could.
I'm just trying to hold on to the Saxon and Chelsea on the boat together, this is where we will be divided and fight. This is our tension.
I will be a Rick and Chelsea truther, and you can vote for Chelsea and Saxon. They have a yin-yang relationship.
Yeah. She's hoping he's paying.
Something's going to win. Quite a combo.
Well, anyway, some of my getaway. All right, move to the fancies.
Okay. How'd you feel about Fabienne's performance? Astonishing stuff.
Home is cold and dirty, but it's still home. What singer is he channeling with some of those? Well, he was in a show called Babylon Berlin where he sang a lot.
And so I think, I feel like my wife was like sort of similar. Tapping into it.
Sort of similar to Rick and Frank being like, and you get to sing. Would you like to be a white lotus? You get to sing.
So we get some info when Carrie Coon officially just gets mad. And what's, Jackie's trying to be like, can we just move on? And Carrie Coon won't let it go.
And then she says to Kate, was it

a big deal when she did the same thing with Dave?

So what do we think happened?

So Kate, because it was

like 15 years ago, but it's longer than that because Kate's

got kids or maybe it wasn't. So we're saying

Kate got married 15 years ago.

It was Lori's wedding.

Lori got married 15 years ago.

And Kate

was there with her husband and Jackie was hitting on the husband. Or they were dating.
They were married yet or whatever. But yeah.
I believe the gentleman did that. This is again like we talked about 100%.
I don't know if that one's recoverable. Well, Kate, I mean.
Kate moved on. She said, wait, what? And then, yeah, kind of just like one more thing.
But this is again like we talked about last week. That memetic desireetic desire.
What happened when your friend hit on Adam that time? At the wedding. He's a handsome guy.
He's got that sweet face. Had him in the corner talking Marvel, and then he just, all of a sudden, you're like, what's going on with those two? The thing is, I know that's never happened simply because in the decade plus we've been together, he's never left our home.
I like when Adam takes strays. I don't.
He's the best. But you haven't left your home either.
That's why he's with you. Exactly.
Just to be here with you two. This is that memetic desire idea again.
Like every season, here it is. I'm interested in why Mike White is like so interested in this.
He, I think Jacqueline is the biggest monster in this show. She, once again, Tim Ratliff.
For what Mike Wright's trying to do. Greg Gary.
I really do feel like they're... But in terms of emotional damage.
Greg Gary, whatever. He killed one wife.
Jacqueline is just a serial relationship abuser. I would just like to keep it all in perspective while also not defending Jacqueline in any way whatsoever.
No, I don't. But it's clearly Mike White's work and some stuff out with this Jacqueline character.
I thought that this was like a fascinating Fancy Cougs episode for so many reasons, but one of which is, and it's not the first time this season, but like there's just no accountability or self-awareness from any of them, honestly, including Laurie, who we love.

Like, that's actually what's interesting about it is that Jacqueline, I agree, is a bad friend and seemingly a monstrous person who will justify her own behavior to herself in any way she can. but when she has like the complete conviction to say to Laurie, like you kind of just keep fucking up your own life.
There's a part of you when you're watching that that's like, oh, I wonder if she's on to something. And then we see Laurie in this situation at the end of the episode where she's like.
I think that everything everyone at the table said was true. Exactly.
If you're not happy with your own life, change it. Yeah.
Yeah. And so I's there is balance then like jacqueline is terrible but she's not wrong and laurie is someone we've rooted for but she's behaving poorly they all are that's been true all season as they gossip about each other it's all shitty and it's also all true yeah and it's just like at a fever pitch in this scene not a nice person no she's doing something here that i found very uh found very I don't have a Jacqueline Lemon specifically in my life, but just I found this very recognizable.
The person who is like... 100%.
Just basically believes their own hype and their own lies and their own bullshit. You're lucky to be in my orbit and I'm always right.
Yeah. Like she just genuinely has convinced herself that everything about the way that she has conducted herself

is, like, completely fine.

And they're lucky to be in her orbit.

A lot of projection going around at that table.

My wife pointed this out during episode seven.

They, and I think it's intentional,

made Michelle Monaghan not look as good in episode seven

as she looked in previous episodes,

but Carrie Coon's character looked better.

Yeah, yeah.

And I feel like it's...

Carrie Coon's hair was sleeker.

The red dress looked amazing.

Michelle Monaghan looks like a mess by the end of this episode.

Thank you. in previous episodes, but Carrie Coon's character looked better.
Yeah. And I feel like it's...
Carrie Coon's hair was sleeker. The red dress looked amazing.
Michelle Monaghan looks like a mess by the end of this episode. Well, she's still...
I mean, for her. For her.
You know what I mean, though. But she's wearing, like, boxers and a robe, you know? Like, it's slightly...
Her hair's messed up. In a slightly more Laurie outfit than she's been.
Laurie, right. She looks more normal.
But I thought that was notable. Yeah, I agree.
Because Michelle Monaghan was starting to get that Faye Dunaway, Mommy Dearest kind of look to her by the end of this episode. Yeah.
You know what else she did that I fucking hate when people do? Is like she started the ship but then she's acting like the calm one. She's doing the like, why are you getting so heated about? That's what Lori says.
I fucking hate when people do that. Lori's like, you did something shitty and I'm the problem? I loved when Kate was like, you're not mad about Valentin.
You could have hooked up with Valentin. No, I'm mad about Jacqueline.
Could have hooked up with Valentin, chose to marry Brian, chose to take that shitty job where she's not a partner. Tough one for Brian.
You always choose the short stick. Is that bad luck or are you life's victim? You're doing it to yourself.
Incredibly really pointed Jesus later Kate saying I feel bad but I guess you don't so great stuff so then Laura's response is you're always fake in front of him that your life is perfect and you're vain and selfish all true and then she goes to the fight. I also loved her fight look.
The stripy pants and the t-shirt. Huge winner this episode.
Yeah, it looks great. Greg, Gary's party.
Vicky comes in. It's a cult.
Chelsea and Saxon, that's going to be you in 30 years. Not a nice thing to say.
Why are you so mean to me yeah Saxon showing a heart oh yeah his baby cell is growing Saxon has feelings it's growing why are you being so mean to me right here I'm a human being like you I just got jerked off by my brother two days ago I'm going through some stuff Schwarzenegger gave a great interview on the official pod where he was talking about how like the logline for his character was southern was Southern finance bro who likes to flirt. And then Mike White's like, we need to really make sure that people don't hate this guy.
Like, he needs to be, like, enjoyable to watch. Not a worry, Mike.
Yeah. Mike, we were on board the whole time.
But that also, like, that because Saxon's on this arc of change, this growth arc inside of the season, that he kept trying to like rush that.

Yeah.

And Mike White's like, no, we've only been here a few days.

Yeah.

Like we want a realistic, this is just a few days of growth for Saxon.

So we still have miles to go and piles of books to read and stuff like that.

We've got some incest that we've got to sprinkle in.

But like, but like we're on a very like slow growth journey.

And yeah, putting him, making him vulnerable very like slow growth journey. And yeah,

putting him,

making him vulnerable,

making him all these

other things has,

yes,

engaged my interest.

What did you guys think of

in that conversation

because Saxon kind of

volleys back, right?

And he's like,

well,

you know,

you're dating this

old bald dude

with a bunch of money.

How's that any different?

Another shot at

Goggins' hair.

Goggins' hair

is a big loser this season. It looks great, but it has come up quite a bit.
You're right. What did you think of Chelsea saying? Because she's like, that's not the reason I'm with him.
And Saxon asked what the appeal is. And she says, the first day we met, he told me his whole life story.
And I just knew we were meant to be together. Now, we know that that is not true.
Very key part of his life story.

This season of television, which means mere days ago in their three-year relationship,

he told her the most important thing about his life.

So, is this a lie she's telling herself that I know this person?

Yes.

Or is it...

She sees the good in him for whatever reason.

Is it the degree of truth?

Yeah.

But if she just wants to fix him...

It's a yin-yang battle now, right?

Saxon's right there, and he's like, fix me. Could be another yin-yang battle for her.
There's a limit. Ride or die.
Rick and Chelsea, ride or die. I hope Saxon goes home and finds his own Chelsea.
I want that for him. Yes.
But he can't take Rick's Chelsea. That's how I feel about that.
If she's home, Hope and Rick is pain and eventually one of them will win. I think we're going to find out in episode 8 yeah it's gotta be Hope Saxon talks to dad for an answer everything's fine I found that scene completely heartbreaking as a I don't have anything else but this I put my whole life in your basket yeah if I'm not a not a success, then I'm nothing.
Now, interestingly,

we've heard,

the other character

who we've heard say,

like, I'm nothing

is Rick.

But he was,

he was kind of saying it,

I think it was episode three

to Amrita, right?

Like, as like a,

almost an embrace.

We had a really interesting

email from a listener

who was talking about

the way in which

Westerners,

when they try to embrace Buddhism,

that they're set, the american specifically idea of like the individual and how

important the individual is and then as we as we learned in last week's episode we are but a mere

drop of water in a large ocean and we will return to that ocean it's counter to that idea of

individualism and how a lot of westerners ingest that idea the wrong way and don't really take it

Thank you. counter to that idea of individualism and how a lot of Westerners ingest that idea the wrong way and don't really take it to mean what it's supposed to mean.
And so I think this idea that Saxon is like, I'm nothing. I'm nothing.
But that's actually like a step in the right direction. And when he says, I could be someone else if I wanted to Chelsea, this is a step in the step in the right direction that was great and it's like no blender this episode for him i am more concerned than i've ever been about the poison fruit here's my trait to you it's from our listener ben i'm calling this section will it blend and he says you can't blend the seed he says the fruit in question yeah uh the cerebral mangus it looks like a mango but inside it is not fleshy like a mango.
It's corky inside, like cork it floats. It is indeed called the suicide tree all the way to the South Pacific.
What is poisonous is the white latex, which comes out when you score or slice the outer skin. There's certainly no way to blend the fruit.
Could you like grate it? Peel it? I feel like Tim Ratliff ended the episode looking for the gun and not finding it and now he's gonna find a way to make a poison smoothie for his entire family. For the first time I'm out on the blender theory.
Are you officially out on the monkeys as well? No, I'm always holding on hope for the monkeys. Couldn't Mike White just pretend that food thing doesn't exist? He definitely could.
How would we know? Yeah. Unless it's like your crazy reader on ChatGPT.
Can I do one more quick fact check only because I've gotten ceaseless emails about this? Charlotte LeBond is not Simon LeBond's daughter. Oh.
So was it CR who lied to you? I told my three people about that. Was it CR who lied to you? Yeah.
Who lied to you about that? Yeah. That sounds like CR's work.
Yeah, it was CR. Yeah.
Sounds like CR's work, but we don't know for sure.

I'm so disappointed.

What did you think about the meta?

You know, I'll always be seen by everyone else as Timothy Ratliff's son, and I'm okay with that.

Right?

Yeah, very like meta Nepo baby lie.

I like that.

I thought that was great, and he had a lot of emotional heft behind delivering that line.

But then, of course, how can we not think to in the the phone securing manipulation scene in episode three when tim was saying and again he was doing this deliberately to get the phones but like we both know how gratifying work is right that scene and he was like we got to have something else to offer and even though it was a game watching saxon move to the point of actually confronting the fact that he doesn't feel like he has anything else to offer has been, I think, quite compelling. And then to see the way Tim has now, when he is engaging in his latest, what's the term for the person who kills their entire family? Oh, family annihilator.
Family annihilator, daydream,bing term. Disturbing term.
He's now added Saxon into that, right?

He sees himself shooting Vicky, and then Saxon comes in and is shooting him because he's now carrying this exchange with Saxon. He had the prior line from Vicky about how she wouldn't want to go on living, and now he has Saxon saying, like, without our professional success, like, what do I have? And so he feels like he has not only destroyed his own life and legacy, but that he has left his family, like, unequipped to find any purpose or meaning in their lives.
And so for Saxon through Chelsea or whatever to, like, work toward a different state of being, I think, is really interesting and cool. He's sitting with his feelings.
He didn't hear. He didn't hear.
He wasn't at the monastery. He didn't hear that line about sitting with his feelings, but he's actually doing it.
Good for him. I liked your meta Arnold Schwarzenegger thing.
I agree. One other thing at the party, Vicky.
Yes. Tries to get one of the young pretties out of the relationship with the old guy.
Just come to North Carolina. I just think they're putting in scenes just so Parker Posey can cook for like 90 seconds.
This was really funny. I support it.
You have a lot of money? You can't ask that. That's great.
Also at the party, Greg Gary offers Belinda 100K. Tanya always talked about you a lot.
I mean, that's interesting because it must be true for him to know this whole story. That's interesting to know about Tanya.
She's really excited to help you. Was she? I kind of expected that when Tanya left the White Lotus, she never talked about Belinda again.
But it seems like she has to have talked about her some for Greg Gary to know this story. I doubt that Belinda ever told Greg Gary really any of this story for more than like 10 seconds.
No, I think because to me that's like more deplorable. She was such a narcissist.
I can't imagine her being like. That's why I think she did it.
because she would spend all her time saying i made this connection with this person she gave me this wonderful head massage it was really transformative i should have done it i should have given her the money i should have invested i i feel bad i wish i'd done it and what was stopping her absolutely nothing and uh and gregary's like someday i'm gonna murder you and then stay at another hotel chain as I hide away that's related to the same hotel where I murdered you. Definitely not Simon LeBron's daughter.
I knew she'd want me to spend the rest of my years in peace. He's just full of shit.
When it gets out of there. I wasn't that interested.
Chloe wants Saxon to stay for Gary Threesome. You have my interest back.
Astonishing scene. Astonishing scene.
I'm not sure what porn search this is, but it definitely sounds like it's a porn search. No, it's can we pretend to be me as a little kid watching my parents have sex.
Watching dad go into town. I'll be the

grown-up little kid and you'll

pretend to be the parents. This was some

fucked up shit. It's like a combination

at a pole electrocomplex

in the blender together.

Mike White, is this like

this is maybe why he doesn't need

a writer's room because he can just come up with

shit like this. He's always cooking.
Can you come up with

this? Maybe you don't need help. Okay, ask you guys.
This seems true, or at least partially true. It's insane.
I don't understand it at all. Are we sure that this is true and not still just a ploy to lure Saxon into a vulnerable position so that he could get his vengeance? Because there is yet again another lie that we know is a lie.
Like he, Greg Gary tells- I feel like this whole thing's a lie. Greg Gary, right.
Greg Gary tells Chloe, Tanya and I never had sex. But that is again, not true.
And we know it's not true because we see them have sex many times, including the possibly still the best moment in the history of the show where they're having sex in season two. And then Tanya has her like, as she says, I disassociated.
She starts to see his eyes. He looks like a shark.
And then she pushes them all. I mean, well, what's true is that he did not want to have sex with her.
And I, but the way that he put,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

wait,

is a lie.

But I like the idea that the reason that he didn't want to have sex with her is that he was unable to talk about what he needed from a sexual situation because it is this fucked up,

you know?

So.

I feel like Tanya would have been like,

whatever you want,

my guy.

I think Tanya would have been good with it.

We should have been good about things. Well, um, Gary needs Saxon to fuck Chloe while he watches.
I believe this. What's sad is I immediately thought of what Mallory's reaction was watching this and how she couldn't be more excited to talk about this on the pod.
So what do you think? Saxon, not into it. Helping Gary.
Helping Gary. Helping Gary.
Saxon, he's like, you know, it's literally

just been a day

since my brother

jerked me off.

So I'm going to pass.

Laugh for this week.

I'm going to pass.

I'm still processing that.

I can't get a boner anymore.

I can't do it.

I really love that

Chelsea's like,

sorry.

I thought Chelsea's faces

were great.

Like, she seemed hopeful.

Yeah, but she's like,

this would be really cool

if you did this for Gary.

She's like,

looking back and forth.

Sorry that didn't work out.

Sorry. Yeah.
I'm going to unveil my Patrick Schwarzenegger impersonation. Okay.
Ready. Have to have good posture.
What? No. No.
The what no. Recurring what no.
That's a what no. That's one moves.
Yeah. But we cut back.
Don't sleep on this part. Gary, just kind of watching.
Watching him. Oh, yeah.
Super creepy. Well.
Kind of like, hey, guys. Either plotting murder or really genuinely into it.
This is the sitting position I'll be in as I watch the two of you have sex before eventually pretending I'm upset about it. I think he has to be leaning.
I think he has to be leaning against the doorframe. Yeah, I think that's clear.
He can't be sitting comfortably. He needs to be leaning against the doorframe watching dad go to town on mom.
Saxon wouldn't even consider it. Nope, he left.
He what no-no'd it. He's like, oh, I found my limit.
Here it is. Meanwhile, the Buddhist complex wasn't that exciting well what is going on here okay so first of all okay so what's clear is this Piper goes the food sucks the bed's uncomfortable she can hear the dripping water she's done by the end of this everything that Victoria wanted Vicky's praying against it this is everything Victoria wanted Piper's done I don't know that I have a full read on her weird reaction to Lachlan I understand why Lachlan wants to stay Lachlan's like I never want to go home because guess what I jerked off my brother and that's disturbing so I'm going to live here forever did you catch a whiff of sexual attention or was I so scarred by the incest Rob was worried that they were going to go there because he's shirtless andless and he's like, I want to stay with you.
And I, for a split second, I was like, no, no, please don't make way. Is that what you think? Because Piper's like, ah.
No, it faded away. She was grossed out.
There was like a second. But what is Piper's like, ah, reaction? What is that? I, I, what I read in that was like, first of all, we've gone from the two, from, from the tug of, the Milwaukee tug of war, right? Saxon and Piper warring for his loyalty, his presence, his soul, to now everyone's like, what? No.
I don't want to share this much with you, whether it's life at the monastery or a handjob during sex with Chloe, whatever the case may be. What I read in that, in Piper's response to Lockheed, was like, okay, and this is obviously in the same mix as like the dripping water pipe and the food and all the other stuff.
No conversation with the people around her. How much of this is genuine commitment, belief, interest, and how much of it has always just been, I will be the rebel.
I will be the one. I'm the zagger.
Yeah, in my family who does something different. And as soon as Lockie

does it, it's like not bold

of her to make the, to

stake her claim to being the one who broke away.

That's the one way to

zag on everybody. I mean,

it's, by Gary,

I think that's, like, what's Gary's

OnlyFans? I mean,

my God. Gary has the worst

OnlyFans. He has no subscribers.

I love this idea of, like,

Thank you. I think that's like, what's Gary's OnlyFans? I mean, my God.
Gary has the worst OnlyFans. He has no subscribers.
I love this idea of like, then again, thinking about the boat home. Yeah.
Thinking about Saxon as like, we start, we go there to the island and Piper's got her nose in a book. And what if we go home and Saxon's reading a book and Piper's as far away from life as a monastery as she's ever been? You know what I mean? Where she's like, the food sucks.
Yep. Bed's uncomfortable.
It's always dripping. I don't like it.
Not a lot of evidence that Piper's a good hang. I just want to point that out too.
I can't disagree. Yeah.
No, not yet. Not really sure what she cares about other than trying to zag against her family, but being committed to it for about 18 hours.
I mean, this is a huge, huge win for Vicky.

Yeah, big L for Piper.

Huge L for Piper.

Huge win for Vicky.

Remember when Lachlan said to Saxon in episode five, but what if this life is just a test to see if we can become better people?

And Saxon said, no.

What?

What?

No.

What?

Yep.

Final times. Mook and God Talk, we covered the fight.
The Russians show up, which was, I guess we should have mentioned this sooner. This is the other big thing we learned this episode.
We were guessing this for five episodes. Stylistically, I did not like this either.
They were the jewelry people. Flashback.
I hate that. You hate an in-episode flashback.
We remember. It's like, this was.
That's true. If it's 22 episodes, I can see it.
I mean, they did enough to, it's clearly guy talk, remembering and piecing together the, you know, the dots. So like, that's fine.
But kind of like, I don't know. We remember.
We know. We don't need you to hold our.
I didn forgot the Valentin on the motorcycle. Inside man.
I forgot that part. So I did need the flashback for that.
So Laurie also saw the loot, right? She saw the stash during her bare ass escape. I had an issue.
That was another small nitpick. I think the loot's in a bag or something.
You're just going to leave it out on a table. Or sold already, right? Pawned off for coins.

Well, so Guy Toc realizes it's them.

Yes.

So now he's in the shooting zone.

Greg Gary might be shooting somebody.

Rick's looking for, or Tim's looking for a gun from anybody.

Citala and Scott Glenn and the bodyguards might be coming back because they know Goggins is staying there.

He's on the fucking clock to get back to the White Lotus if he's going to play a role in the shootout. Yeah.
As are the bodyguards. And he threw out his gun.
He threw out his gun. Here's my question.
He did this. Yeah.
He knocked. Okay, maybe.
No, I'm still a Rick and Chelsea believer. But if I'm Rick, I'm hightailing it back to the White Lotus immediately.
And I'm like, pack your bags. We got to go.
Right. I knocked an old man over in his chair.
Yes. You know what I mean? And we're staying at his hotel.
Yes. You can't stay in the city where you just did this thing and you definitely cannot stay at the hotel where Cetelan knows you are.
And you can't even give Chelsea a call to be like, pack it out. Maybe at the airport.
Again, he's terrible at this. Rick and Gary in Bangkok.
I wish it had been the whole episode. You're sober, right? Sober, yeah.
That ship sailed. I love Rockwell.
Yeah. Rockwell's incredible.
Rick is like, this is part of why I just want, I actually am also, genuinely all jokes aside, I am still rooting for Rick and Chelsea, and I want hope to win in the hope of pain yin-yang. But Rick is a bad friend to Frank here.
Dragging your friend out of sobriety and celibacy for your own gain and feeling zero remorse about it is shitty. And he's a terrible boyfriend.
Counter? Here are my notes. Sam Rockwell MVP.
Let's fucking party. Strip trance and shots.
Cocaine crack for naked ladies. Rick sits there peaceful.
Is your font always that big no I made it I made it bigger CRS for the camera incredibly compelling television but he's a he's not a kind and generous person so if he if that's his arc and he learns to be more giving to other people now that he has some peace with himself Rick's not a good guy great the only person who thinks Rick's a good guy is that one lady who did the spiritual massage with her.

Yeah, yeah. That's it.

She's the only one who believes in Rick at this point.

By the way, maybe Rick should stay there and live with her and then Chelsea can be with Saxon.

Win-win.

They can blend some drinks.

Saxon has a lot of growing to do.

It's true. He does.

He's just starting.

Belinda and Zion, we don't know how that's going to turn out.

Do you agree? Do you think that she's going to take the money? or do you want to save that for predictions? Let's save for predictions. So we see them arguing.
We see Jackie and Kate. That's mine.
I'll be the bad guy. I'm used to it.
We see Saxon and Chelsea meditating, trying to teach me your ways. Hand on the hand.
Chelsea starts feeling a little tingly. Yep.
Oh, yeah. Oh, we got to end this now.
I got to call Rick. Yeah.
Eighth time she said that. Yeah.
Throws the books at him. We see Vicky.
But he takes them. He does.
Vicky praying for Piper. Piper waking up.
And then Carrie Coon. We finally got the really, really out there Carrie Coon sex scene.
Knew that was coming in one of these episodes. Incredible.
Asks her for her money. 10K maybe.
Sees thek maybe sees the thing runs out dick slap and then Tim Ratliff goes to grab the gun and he's gone and that's our episode so we can get to predictions what do you got? Unlike Guy Talk Tim acknowledges the possibility that the gun could have been in one of several drawers inside of that inside of So things to be interested in going forward. Yes.

When does Guy talk

cash in the Russians?

I know who did the robbery, so we got that.

Yeah. Two, how does

Rick get back?

How does he get his stuff and how does he get the fuck out

of the way, Lotus?

Three, Belinda and Greg Gary.

Yeah. Four, are the fancies

even going to make it one more day all together? Yeah. Kate already booked an earlier flight back to Austin.
Piper and Lockie leaving the Buddhist place. Does Lockie stay? What's going to happen to that? What else are we interested in heading into this last episode? Will Victoria ever show signs of Loraz of Ham withdrawal? Never.
What's on Tim's phone when he gets it back? Or does he get it back? Is Tim off the hook? Oh, Tim's phone. Yeah, it's Tim off the hook.
Yeah. Do we think this is the last day of White Lotus or is it the last day just because we're going to have a shootout? Well, this is Friday night, right? Because again, the last four episodes have just been two days.
So,

yeah.

I guess the,

I mean,

the shoot me out.

I'll just say,

if it were me and there's a shoot at the resort,

that's the last day for me.

Yeah.

Checking out.

Yeah,

you're leaving after that.

I'd say so.

I'd say so.

With all the gunshots,

it makes me wonder.

Yeah.

Again,

not only have we not seen the episode, I haven't heard anything. You have the two bodyguards coming back to find Rick.
Yes. You have the Russians who robbed the place.
So you have two sides that we know are going to have guns. Rick does not have his gun.
He put it in a trash can. Maybe that's the shootout? The Russians versus the staff? I think I would be shocked if Guy Toc is not not involved guy talk shooting at the russians unless he's holding his morals bodyguards come they get into it and now it's like a almost like a tarantino three-way thing right he hates them and has from the beginning so like what if but he knows the russians yes are the villains he does right In the tradition of like, right, so that's, yes.

So like in the tradition of characters making a mistake,

it would be interesting if the Hollinger bodyguards came to find Rick

not to kill him or hurt him, but to be like,

can you come back so that you guys can finish that conversation?

He's your dad.

But Guy Talk sees them pursuing a guest,

hears Fabian in his head being like,

your job is to protect the hotel.

Here's the story. your dad but guy talk sees them pursuing a guest here's uh fabian in his head being like your job is to protect the hotel here's mook in his head saying i thought you were more ambitious and like tries to protect a guest at the hotel and pulls out his gun but the where do the russians come i'm gonna show you how that i can be violent but make some dumb mistake yeah That I 100% believe in.
Yeah. Security guards chasing down Rick being like, he's your dad.
He's your dad. Come talk.
Come talk. Not about revealing that, but be like that they're actually there.
Not actually saying that, but that they're there. No bad idea than a brainstorm, as Jacobi would say.
As Jacobi would say, they're there to like basically, not for a violent reason, but just the fact that they're there is mistaken by all parties is violent intent.

Counter.

Yeah.

The security guards are there.

Guy Tuck tries to confront

Valentin.

Yeah.

And they kill him.

The Russians.

And

he has to decide

whether he's going to draw

or not.

Yes.

You think doesn't?

Because he believes

he stands by his...

I'm like,

fuck Mook.

You know what I mean?

Go back to episode one though.

Our guy Zion getting him wherever he was going on. Yeah.
Gunshot? No noise for like 10 seconds. Another gunshot? Yeah.
And then gunshots. Yes.
So the first shot could be Guy Toc getting shot. Yeah.
Yeah. Joanna just got bummed out.
And then the security guard shooting at the Russian back and then we get a shootout and then Rick's just diving in front of the bullets hoping to get hit by one not Rick Tim Tim's just diving or he takes a bullet for Chelsea that would be great Rick takes a bullet for Chelsea and that way we get to celebrate both his commitment to her and her new budding relationship with Saxon. That would be ideal.
Her impending nuptials with Saxon. That would be ideal.
Can I tell you something I'm concerned by? Yes. Yeah.
In an interview. Oh, no.
Interview corner. Lisa, who plays Mook, they were talking about how sometimes you have to fight for your love.
Okay. And I didn't know what that meant.
That was like several episodes ago. Yeah.
I don't know what that means. And I don't know if like in their view or in someone's view, it is good for a guy to talk to show some macho masculinity.
Right. I think us watching at home are like, don't do it.
Don't do it. Yeah.
Don't do it. Don't do it.
And especially because that would be a contrast to what many of the characters do, especially if Piper, if Vicky's right, and Piper leaves the monastery and is like, actually, I am going back home to just live my life, whatever happens with Tim aside. That's her decision absent that knowledge.
Mom, can I have one of your lorazopams? Right. She's the Rachel character from season one then, right? She spends the whole season talking about the thing she wants, the thing that's different.
Why can't the people around me understand?

Yeah, like why I have some sort of like moral integrity and fiber that is like separate from the trappings of money and status and class.

And then just like, actually, I do want to hold on to that. And Guy Talk saying, no, this is a thing I believe.
I'm not gonna compromise the actual, like, truth of my life

would be very important and satisfying to see.

But then if he died, like, or got shot,

what would the message of that be?

Very sad.

That would be deeply, deeply tragic.

What if they kill Guy Tog off

because he's the most boring character on the show?

Just take him out.

Belinda, a part of this too, right? Belinda walks off with the money. right now walks off with the money if she walks off with the money yeah but like then there's honestly okay i want to be clear you know gary killed tanya it would not be the right thing to take the money and like let him live the rest of his life to be clear however why should belinda be the one person like she says like can i like, one fucking break in my entire life? Take the money.
Yeah. Why shouldn't Belinda benefit from this fucking shit show around her all the time? Take the money she was due from Tanya in the first place.
Yeah. Like, when Rachel was in the spa at the end of season one and was like, oh, can I just sit here and cry to you about how sad my life is? And Belinda walked out and was like, you want my time, my advice? Like, I'm fresh out.
It's maybe time for her to be the one who does that. That would be interesting, but also at the expense of some moral integrity.
What I like about that is that Mike White has said that, like, her character is supposed to be the moral compass of the show, but what if it's like... Is there a moral compass? Is there even a moral compass? And maybe, is it Gaitaku's not shooting? I'm'm just rooting for him and I don't think he should be with Mook because Mook wants some doesn't want him Mook doesn't like him for who he is Mook might need Saxon let's just set Saxon up maybe they have to date and different people maybe Saxon needs to spend some time with Saxon yeah do you know what I mean he needs to sit with his feelings exactly one more it's not totally a prediction but I'm throwing it out there are we sure the three fancies are all making it to the end of this episode that not one of them is going to leave early could we get a leave early oh I love that like they wake up and Jacqueline's just gone with some fake excuse yeah I had to go back they need me on set and it's just Kate and enjoy your flights you're in coach this time.
Yeah. No, seriously.
Yeah. Yeah.

You have three connections.

Yeah.

I got out a day early.

We're all until we have a day early and I've already left.

Yeah.

You guys can get back yourself.

Yeah, I can see that.

I don't think she wants them to see her sweat, to see that she was flustered by the encounter

at all.

Like, she's not cutting her vacation a day short for them.

I don't know.

I kind of like the idea where she's just like, oh, Harrison needed me.

I had to go. Sweet Harrison.
They're addicted to each other. She just leaves like a short note.
Talk to you soon. TTYL.
Love Jackie. All right.
So things I want in this episode other than somebody watching her show on their hotel room TV where it's like CSI, CSI. You'll have to wait for a bonus webisode between seasons, I think.
CSI Seattle. What is it? What is the Yellow Jacket show? Repo de Borsais? Repo de Borsais is great.
That sounds great. Any last predictions before we go? I don't know.
90-minute episode is kind of exciting. I'm just really invested in Saxon, and I never saw that coming, guys.
What a you feel great about yourself I feel like this season was a success Saxon Hive has grown I mean Schwarzenegger proud to be a founding member Nepo baby is totally vindicated this is great any last predictions Val? I think we covered a lot of them I you know he's your dad I don think they will shout that out. The security guards.
Hold on! I am. It's your dad! I'm processing that you can't blend the poison seed pods into a smoothie.
That's a hit for Theory Corner. Definitely.
I would love for Tim to try. The physical comedy of Lorazepam Tim, Rattlin' Tim, trying to shove some quirky fruit into the blender,

breaking it and being like,

Pam, the blender's broken Pam.

And then she comes to fix the blender

and gives him his phone

and he sees that he's off the hook.

Yeah.

Well, if it's hard to blend,

maybe he starts blending it

and the blender does a spasm

and knocks him out with the...

Oh, death by blender, physical blender.

Death by blender.

Oh.

Death by blender.

Death by blender. Oh, Tim.
Are any of these people going to leave episode eight in any kind of a happy place? Saxon. Saxon.
I think he's on the path to progress. Chelsea maybe.
Happy? Chelsea and Rick, I believe. I think Rick's dead at the end of the next episode.
You think Rick is dead? I think he is dead. Do you think he's the body floating towards Zion that we saw at the beginning? I think, I don't know, Zion wouldn't know who he is though.
I think it would have to be somebody Zion knew or at least had interacted with. I think it's horrific enough to like find a dead body.
Yeah. You know what I mean? And also he wasn't like- But I thought the way he looked at it, I thought he knew who it was.
No? thought the opposite I thought he was like because otherwise he would have been like mom oh no but who knows I guess I would run from a body pretty quickly most disappointing deaths would be Frank Frank's not coming back Frank's back in the Lotus Frank's not coming back to the Lotus he's safe he's gonna live forever he's fine maybe he'll be the new recurring character across seasons have Have you heard the rumor that Rockwell's going to go for supporting rather than guest? Which would be a mistake, I think. Oh, interesting.
How's that a rumor? Where'd you read that? I heard it on the streets. You heard it on the streets? I did.
So he's been in three episodes. Supporting's a little sexier, right? Yeah.
If he has a supporting actor Emmy, that's sexier than guest actor Emmy. But he's got guest actor in the bag.
I would just take it. No question.
You know? It's a tough one. He's my favorite person on the show.
If you were to win, leaving Sam Rockwell aside, if you were to award one other Emmy for this season, who are you giving it to? Good question. I'm changing my answer to this question most of the season.
It's not Jason Isaacs. It was either Jason Isaacs or Walton Goggins.
I think they've obviously both been wonderful, but the last couple episodes I haven't gotten quite as much. I would, I would go either Goggins or, he's really good.
I'd either go Goggins or, What about Amy Liu? I think Amy Liu is an Amy Liu I think Amy Liu just dynamite and I would not be surprised if Parker Posey got it off of memes alone honestly and she would and she would deserve it because these memes are going to be as we've been talking about yeah these memes are going to be a part of our lives for decades to come so Parker Posey Parker Posey and's all arbitrary. White Lotus, it's an ensemble.
Parker Posey for lead. Amy Liu for supporting, even though I think technically Amy Liu has more screen time.
That would be a good Emmys category. Meme of the year.
And the nominees are... They'd all be from White Lotus.
The nominees are Rick being unable to believe. Tramiel Tillman from Severance.
Yeah, of course. Milchick.
Meme Lord Milchick. Have you seen any Milchick memes though? You must have.
I've seen the memes but I don't know what they mean. Yeah, well, sad.
I have many hours of podcasts you can listen to if you want to know. I know.
Well, I'm sad. This is the last time we actually had to prepare for a pod.
I know, I'm despondent. I'm going to miss it.
But next week, we'll go live if we have to.

Where's that rosé?

We'll get the rosé ready to go.

So we'll be right after that show somehow.

We don't know how.

If we can get screeners, even better.

But I will see you next week.

Thanks to the crew, as always.

Don't forget, bring our Dash TV.

And then Joe's got the deep dive with Rob.

Can't wait for that one as always

and uh i'll see you next week