'The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5 Deep Dive and Theories: Sam Rockwell and the Best TV Monologues Ever

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hello welcome back to the prestige tv podcast feed i'm joyner robinson i'm rob mahoney we're here to talk to you about white lotus season three episode five full moon party right is that right that's accurate okay you know many things happened at said full moon party and around it there's a lot to get into there's a lot to get into i just want to let you know that there's a lot to get into on television these days and so i just want to let folks know a seamless transition right i just want to let people know right into the depths of our personal despair because that is the natural transition point i want to let people know what's going on the prestige feed uh right now obviously as we've mentioned many weeks in a row now we're double dipping on white lotus so there's sunday night bill mal and joanna you can't skip past this this uh there's new information on here sunday bill mal joanna instant reaction to white lotus later in, Rob, Joanna, this podcast, the deep dive into White Lotus. Yeah, they know about that one.
They're currently listening to it. The one you currently listen to.
Adolescents, emergency pod drop for a four episode Netflix series, Adolescent, dropped over the weekend. And Rob and I dropped an episode about that yesterday.
If you're listening to this on Wednesday, we dropped it on Tuesday. It's in the feed.
You can listen to that. Also this week, Rob, today, if you're listening to this Wednesday morning, fresh as it drops into your feed.
As you should. In a few hours.
In a few scant hours. Rob and I will be doing a live Q&A, of like lunchtime severance pre finale extravaganza

where you can find us on

Ringer TV on Spotify

nope let me do that again

you can find us on Ringer TV on YouTube

and that is where we will be taking your questions

and you know

just talking about what we think is

going to come in the finale for severance

and how we think the season is going

and all of that

Rob anything you want to say about the live

I don't know. And, you know, just talking about what we think is going to come in the finale for Severance and how we think the season is going and all of that.
Rob, anything you want to say with the live mailbag Q&A thing? I would say just that there's still time to get your questions and theories into us in advance of that Q&A. Of course, you can stop by, drop them in the chat.
You can also email us at PrestigeTV at Spotify.com or for severance specifically pineapple bobbing at gmail.com and of course as we know for white lotus specifically monkey shootout at gmail.com is that enough cross traffic email like am i am i creating a jam here joe well i mean we we've not created a special email for adolescents we've spared the people that so that's what our pod i simply will not given the subject matter of that show correct and um also so then then our severance finale coverage uh the rob and joanna severance finale pod is dropping thursday night if all goes according to plan some of us including me will be covering the studio uh in this feed uh and then we'll have know, some severance wrap up next week as well. So I don't know if that was as coherent as it might have been, but there's a lot going on.
And I don't know. Here's what I think you should do.
Subscribe to the pod and just click on every single episode and listen to all of them. Why not do that? Right.
That's a great idea. This is not the week for coherence, Joe.
This is the week to take some party drugs, to get out there under the full moon and to live our best life. And just party out.
Okay, Rob, I have already had a chance to tell people what I think about this episode with Bill and Mal on Sunday. What did you, Rob Mahoney, think of episode five of White Lotus? I think it has the individual highlight of the entire season so far.
And I have kind of mixed feelings about where that highlight is coming from relative to the rest of the story. You know, it feels a little bit wrong that I know more about Sam Rockwell's character from five minutes than basically any other character in the field of play through five episodes.
And so, I don't know how to process all that because I will take a big juicy Sam Rockwell monologue wherever and whenever I can get it. But I am starting to feel a little bit of a lull.
And I find myself wanting other characters throughout this cast to get similarly emotive moments. I want them to have their big juicy monologues.
So who in this episode could have, you know, used that screen time for their own juicy monologue? I think we are, we are destined toward one of the fancies, maybe Lori specifically entering into monologue territory. I'm going to say the partiers are not quite in the right state of mind to be overly verbose at this point in time, but one could be coming from at least one of the two brothers who may or may not have made out on a yacht throughout this episode.
So I think there's candidates may or may not as if you're like well building a legal case against them allegedly we saw them make out right they did do that kiss aggressively would you describe that as a make out oh yeah okay fine uh a share to smooch definitely i mean smooch is the initial approach and then the circle back for a definitely a more aggressive play i just i don't know if it crossed the line into make out i don't know what tongues may or may not have been involved i the duration i think there's like a very strict legal definition of make out and this did not quite meet the criteria right well definitely not it definitely doesn't rise to hookup um there's no doubt um okay at least not from what we've seen like i think that's what's most worrying about all the yacht encounters that night is still ongoing we have no idea what's about to transpire as we bleed into episode six we have no maybe it's a flash forward and we never actually see it but we see the aftermath of it many many horrible things could happen involving brothers and i i continue to be incredibly concerned about the entire the entire family brothers included. Yeah.
Okay. I have a good question for you about a scene that Mallory and I both flagged and we weren't sure we really understood.
And I'm curious for your take on it. As the brothers are partying, there's like a quick but lingering flash to Piper back home.

Yes.

Piper back in the room.

All right.

And, you know, we've got the fancies are out partying and then bringing the party back to their villa.

We've got the full moon boat partiers.

And then we've got Piper, Belinda, a few other people are like having their own sort of moments and experiences back

in inside of the safe walls of the white lotus um what's your interpretation of that flash

to piper what do you think the show is trying to say with that i mean it felt foreboding did it

i thought so a little bit but i mean it could be as simple as a contrast piece right of the pipe

the life that piper is choosing for herself or believe she's choosing for herself. Yeah.
Juxtaposed against, here's what her brothers are up to. Here's what the other hotel guests are getting up to.
She is cloistering herself in a way that is preventing her from living a normal 20-something life. And I know we've talked about it before, Joe, but I am definitely still of the opinion that she is going to circle back to that life by the end of the series normal i mean by what definition of normal so this this is what i want to go back to because um i was listening to the official pod which is co-hosted by gia tolentino who is like a brilliant uh writer journalist wonderful person also much more of a party girl than i've ever been so like her take on things was like the the boys are out there living the thing that piper is sort of studying to achieve that the boys are achieving by going out leaving the walls of the white lotus pursuing pleasure pursuing joy whereas piper's like i need to study for a year to figure out what it is i want or i need or i care about yes and as the like lifelong uh kate in her pjs at the pool party or piper doesn't go on on the drug orgy boat myself i was like is it but i mean i don't know what do you think of that interpretation i kind of like it in the sense that like a chemically altered kind of like self-actualization like i i would pay money to worry as little as saxon worries in life to navigate life that way seems very freeing seems very liberating and so i agree in the sense of there there's a big philosophical clash between lachlan and saxon at the heart of this episode as far as like the using people versus like what is the purpose of a life and kind of how it fits into the grand scheme of the universe and i actually think sam rockwell's big monologue is almost sort of a refutation into that debate and we can get to that later but piper is in so many ways like to circle this conversation she's still finding where she even fits into all that and what she believes and what like what she can even reasonably achieve with not just the means that she has which we know are significant given her family but is she actually going to invest spiritually in this quest that she has set out to to invest in she's invested intellectually but is she going to be able to yes the rest of her inside of it yeah okay um you mentioned to me that you want to talk about

um something that i raised with bill and mal about um the not yet a make out definitely more than a

smooch moment uh between lockie and saxon um this idea that mike white has you know in it was an

interview he gave, I mean, I think he said it a

Thank you. moment uh between lockie and saxon um this idea that mike white has you know in it was an interview he gave i mean i think he said it a few different times but the one that i sort of sourced was from last season and he was talking about this idea of making queer sex transgressive that it was something that was interesting to him as a queer creator that that was something that he was interested in i will just say before i really want to hear what you say you think about this but we recorded bill and mal and i recorded that before we were able to sort of see people's reactions to this and i have seen some reactions of like can we just have like a straightforward queer relationship um in a white lotus season or at least male queer relationship because you know there's definitely um some some stuff going on in season two uh for the ladies anyway so what uh do you want to say about this i would say that none of the relationships in white lotus are very straightforward and that's what i love about this show and i we're at a point in media right now overall where for very well-meaning purposes, I think a lot of the queer love we see on screen is very sweet.
Right? Like that is the overall gesture, I would say, of the direction that in terms of portraying those relationships, there's a very sanitized version of a queer relationship that we see a lot in kind of a rom-com sort of setting. I think that is wonderful.
And I'm glad it exists. I also want some stuff that feels weird.
I also want kind of the full complexion of sexual experience for these characters. Like, I think about a series like Looking, which was on HBO about a decade ago.
I love Looking. And I love Looking, and I don't know that it would exist if it were kind of brought to market today.
I think some elements of that show, which are not radical, but are messy in the way their relationships are messy would be kind of... Well, it didn't even it didn't even thrive the way it

should have when it originally aired. Very true.
I remember my colleague at the time,

Vanny Fair, Richard Lawson wrote this great piece about how like, we let looking down by not like

engaging with it the way that he really wanted people to. So yeah, I thought that was interesting.

I just want these characters to I want something more than your red white and royal blues and your heart stoppers and i feel like that's overall the kind of momentum of what queer love looks on screen in a lot of cases right now your love simons which which again are great i just i also want stilted and messy because queer sex is sex and that sex is a power dynamic that sex is an exchange between two people who are constantly jostling for something and i think in some cases it should be provocative i think you mean it's a poetic act um i believe it is also a poetic act well i think this is a good um segue into uh an email we got from a listener about hunger the book that Lachlan Lockheed was reading last week that we brushed against on the pod last week. But one of our listeners, Lee, wrote in to say, one of the core aspects of Hunger is this figure of the wanderer, someone who is adrift and in many ways simply responding to immediate events without having a clear sense of direction.
In one of Sam Nivola's interviews, if I recall correctly, he characterizes Lachlan as adrift and directionless. And this book choice seems to emphasize that as for the, quote, darkness within in Hampson's novel, this is more kind of insanity rather than any kind of evil.
However, I'm on Incest Watch 2025. So I'm super interested in the character's tendency to misunderstand human connection as romantic.
He becomes obsessed in the book. He becomes obsessed with a woman who doesn't know he is who he is at one point.
He routinely puts people off with his intensity. Maybe this is also meant to be saying something about Saxon.
Interestingly, the main character in Hunger boards a boat at the end of the book, heading away from what he knows into an uncertain future. So maybe Lachlanachlan could quote get away in a similar way to Quinn in season one I'm not too sure about this especially given given people's tendencies to stay put in White Lotus I'll be looking out for that as well so what is your interpretation Sam Navola has been giving some interviews sort of about like where he thinks Lachlan's head is inside of this exchange.
But I found his performance really interesting. And I think, to me, it read, you know, with the lighting, the hellish lighting and all this sort of stuff like this, but it read as somewhat sinister.
How did that performance read to you? I didn't get quite sinister, but definitely assertive in a way that we're just not used to seeing from Lockheed, right? This whole idea that he would never have the upper hand with Saxon in any other phase of their relationship, but when kind of chemically equalized by their circumstances, now all of a sudden there's enough chaos happening that he can seize a moment he's at least been thinking about in some context for a long time, Joe. Another thing I thought that you mentioned on the Sunday pod that I thought was really well observed was this idea of, does Lockheed want to be with Saxon? Does he want to be Saxon? Does he kind of have contempt for Saxon? I think he's working through a lot of conflicting emotions as to who this person is in his life because he fills a lot of different voids at this point in time i love that um thank you so much uh for liking that and i think one of our listeners brian drew a connection between that idea and sam rockwell's monologue which is sort of like do i want to fuck an asian woman or do i want to be an asian woman like what you know or do i want to be the person watching me get like, like all this sort of stuff.
Identity is a prison. And this idea of sort of breaking out of any of those prisons, but but this idea from the start, the earliest episode one, Lachlan Saxon vibes are off moment felt like a do I want to be this person? Am i admiring this person's physique because i want it to be my own physique or am i admiring it because i sexually desire it and it seems to me with locky's sort of like people pleasing um body language that we that we got to earlier in the season his uncertainty his him being pulled between the the women in his family and the men in his family, like all the sort of back and forth, this fluidity of gender identity question.
I think all of that is really in play and interesting inside of a culture that at least from like a tourist POV of Thailand is a place for sexual exploration and gender exploration you know yes and again there's so much like juxtaposing of masculine feminine in all of these episodes but i would say especially in this one and it's it's not just the sam rockwell monologue i would even say everything that's going on with the fancies which is very much a i don't know what do you have a preferred alternative to bros before hoes joe like what is what is the what is the counterpoint i've heard the chicks before dicks i've heard sisters before misters do you have a preference of this like specific line of thinking yeah i mean i think chicks before dicks is pretty good i wish i had like a rhyming one ready that rhymes with like fancies or mallory started calling him the coog fancies before mancies um but the idea of going on a girl's trip and undermining one of your friends and scooping out basically a guy from practically underneath her is an undermined or underhanded not just in a very jacqueline way but in a very masculine feminine like adversarial kind of. Well, I think it's interesting.
We also got an email from our listener, Matt, about he was, the question, the subject line of the email is so evocative, which is like, who are the sharks? Meaning like in these tapestries that we see in the opening credits, like we see all these predators. And so this question of like Saxon as a predator when we see him in the pool at the beginning of the season versus prey.
Don't take advantage of me is what he says as he like takes these drugs and stuff like this.

Jacqueline is as clearly a predator, but like how will that predator, you know, are we are we underestimating what kind of predator Laurie could be? Yeah, we get we get a section in this episode where Laurie is talking to Valentin and Alexi in the pool and she's talking about what a hot shit lawyer she is and like, you know, what a big deal she is. and um there's there's a moment in that that makes me so sad because um carrie coon was talking about this in the official podcast this idea of like the storyline of the fancies is like these women who have all made choices and it's the perfect the perfect way for you to second guess your choices is to hang out with a woman who is in your demographic came from exactly where you came from.
You have known your whole life. She made one choice.
You made another Lori as someone who is disappointed in where her life has turned out. According to Carrie Coon, which bums me out.
Cause I was hoping that Lori felt like she was doing fine, but I guess she doesn't. Um, and so you thought by the bottle of shard a day she thought she was doing fine I'm just rooting for you always Laurie any any character I'm rooting for you but like that that Valentin and Alexi were like laughing about her being alimony and she's like a ha ha and I was just like fuck them you know and like i just want laurie to be fully in her power i know and uh i don't know what's gonna happen uh if if she finds is she gonna find out that she's gonna find out okay she was so close like this is as close as we've seen her to being in her power right to really letting loose to having her moment to getting some validation and some attention that i think she she kind of desperately needs at this point in time but in a really positive way that she created for herself and to have jacqueline who never for a second was going to let one of her friends have something that she wanted swoop in it's it's so gross but it's gross in a way that i like all the ways that i love this dynamic i love i love that kate is in full pajama set waiting on the sidelines just to go to sleep i love that jacqueline does what she does because like that feels so true to that character and i'm just i'm waiting for laurie's moment to go back to your like who what like what juicy monologue do i want to see i want to see a juicy laurie monologue like telling Jacqueline about herself, you know what I mean? And like the thing about what Jacqueline does, it is so vile and so recognizable as behavior that we have seen versions of in people that we know.
And this is the thing that White Lotus does better than anyone else, which is just sort of like, give us people that we recognize an extreme comedy version of them but like we know these people you know and i don't think anyone i mean i don't know that i know anyone who's kissed their brother um smooshed and more plus their brother maybe they just haven't talked about it you know what happens in thailand stays in thailand or so i been told. I doubt that that's going to be the case, but we'll see.
Did you see that literary legend Joyce Carol Oates put up a tweet about White Lotus? What did she say? I love how active Joyce Carol Oates is on social media. It's really funny.
I don't. She's a little too online.
We're all a little too online. But Joyce, you don't have to do this like we do.
No. That's why.
Because she's Joyce Carol Oates and she has no business doing any of this. And she does it anyway.
I just want better for her. I want her to be on a yacht somewhere.
She says, I highly recommend the White Lotus for lonely persons who fantasize how wonderful it would be to, one, be in a romantic relationship with someone. Two, be in an affluent family with three mostly grown children, three, have two close girlfriends whom you've known forever and love.
After 10 minutes of White Lotus, you are weeping with relief that you are alone and not with these literally unbearable people. So yeah, this one goes out to people who live their life in isolation.
White is for you i will say i find them quite bearable at this distance these are not people you want in your life in close proximity but the thing about jacqueline that's so interesting to me is like i am obviously not a part of these sorts of female friendships but not not as of yet but you know life is long there is something about her and just her desperate desire to win that transcends, I think, any sort of relationship. And it's like she clearly has a main character syndrome thing happening in which everyone is an accessory to her story.
That you see all over the place. But how competitive she is, you know, even with just like making eyes at these like younger Russian ladies across the room.
And it's like, I have to beat them, not just my friends, not just everyone back home, not just everyone who might be vying for my husband's attention and affections. I have to beat these ladies, too.
I am constantly in battle. I love the contrast between the way she's dancing and the way that Lori's dancing.
Let's leave Kate aside for a moment and say that like the way that Jacqueline is just it's a performance. Yes everything she's done the entire series basically Lori is performing but like but then there are also just moments where Lori is just like wild and out for herself yeah she's like two Shia LaBeouf's beyond just being able to perform like she's in a zone right and I just I there's something pure about that uh for me but honestly everyone on White lotus disappoints me eventually so laurie i'm rooting for you but i'm sure you'll piss me off at some point um do you want to hear we got we got a couple emails that i'm gonna call the section let's hear from the experts would you like to uh to check in with a few of our expert listeners rob i'm all about education i'm wondering what areas of expertise we're gonna dig into i mean party drugs are obviously on the table what else would they i mean clearly any kind of like local festival scene anything going on with the full moon i'd be curious to hear about yeah what else what else are we hearing as we mentioned last week we got a couple emails from listeners who have been to the full moon party it's pretty cool um sam uh area of expertise uh southern mainline clergy person is how they describe themselves the clergy is weighing in on the white lotus yes and weighing in specifically on um the i think it's a it's a hymn right the hymn that tim sings in the episode, right? Very normally to himself, muttering along as his daughter's trying to have a conversation with him.
Solo falsetto that drives your daughter out of the room? Totally fine? Okay. Yep.
So Tim calls himself a, says he was a choir boy. Yes.
And this, Sam, our clergy person says, well, they're definitely not Catholic, right? Which is usually where you find a choir boy so probably anglican right and sam says um the christmas eve solo sung by a choir boy in the anglican church is the first verse of once in royal david city tim though sings low how a rose air blooming during the episode the tune fit the mood of the episode better. But thematically, this song has a greater focus on the lineage connecting David to Jesus.
Tim has a lot of focus on his own lineage and the future of his line throughout the season. He also may just like the flower imagery of the song matching the white lotus.
and I just thought that was really interesting like the specificity

the layers of specificity is probably true

of the particular kind of Christianity that Victoria and Tim have practiced, especially with everything that Victoria has to say inside of this episode. Including about Catholics, which I have to, you know, again, she's not wrong.
Victoria's right about a lot of stuff tough affair sam says the way victoria speaks she was almost certainly raised evangelical probably southern baptist her fear and revulsion of both buddhism and catholicism along with the clintons points to that it's interesting that these two parents raised a buddhist and two hedonists so um that is the that is the clergy weighing in but i just i love the one aspiring hedonist we should say lockheed still early in his journey he initiated the smooch i think i think he's also he took that party drug pretty quickly you think this is lockheed's first hit of ecstasy that's a great question high school senior rob i i kind of think maybe it is just because in so many ways he does model saxon and i could see him to this point being a certain kind of straight edge obviously saxon himself is not exactly straight edge he just takes other kinds of drugs but i could see him kind of holding out on this front until this moment where it's like not only am i on vacation do i have this rare fest like festival opportunity but he's also trying to score with these two ladies right in front of him and so he's trying to be part of the party our second and last expert that we're hearing from uh is jake a magician uh my name is jake and i'm a professional magician so these last two episodes have really caught my eye as someone who has adamantly stayed away from using tricks to try to pick up girls, it's refreshing to see magic potentially getting someone laid for once. Lachlan's tricks that he performed in episode four are complex and take a lot of practice and forethought to accomplish.
Sneaking a playing card into someone's purse on a yacht is a dangerous game that I would never even attempt. The number prediction is impossible, even with existing magician methods, but I'm willing to spend my disbelief all in service of Lachlan getting some.
These are not merely party tricks. Lachlan has been training for months for this moment and ultimately succeeded, although it only led to him kissing his brother so far.
Only next Sunday will it be revealed if magic tricks can actually get you laid. So that from jake a magician i loved the incredible uh the professional insight from jake the magician and the uh religious insight um from a clergy person i love i love them equally they they're equally valuable in my life joe were you surprised at all by chloe being as into locky as she was like that something about his whole vibe the little magician the little the little magician really spoke to her she likes them young their heart their heart she likes them quivering like a little like a little bunny rabbit she's a shark and he's the prey you know so she thinks but i don't know don't don't we're gonna gonna find out i i will say i do think it was in his way actually like a little bit generous of saxon who has been trying to put his arm around chloe for days now and trying to get close to her for days that when she does seem to express interest in his brother he's just like bowing out like letting letting lachlan take the spotlight not a great guy but as far as wingmen go you could do worse than your brother um you I think that's because he thinks that he can land Chelsea he at least wants to try yeah but he certainly turned on by the prospect of trying and her not being interested gross behavior um nordstrom brings you the season's most wanted brands skims mango free people and princess poly all under 100 from trending sneakers to beauty must-haves we've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring free Free shipping, free returns, and in-store pickup make it easier than ever.
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All right. What else do you want to talk about? What's on your list to talk about? Do you want to talk about duke basketball do you want to do now that we're in expert territory we have our very own expert on this podcast rob see this is where you've already overstepped because i am not by any means a college basketball expert but but you know that you're miles ahead of most people you you deal in basketball in general i don't know i i mean of course 10 000 feet i understand the parameters of college basketball.
I don't know. I mean, of course, 10,000 feet.
I understand the parameters of college basketball. We can talk about Duke if you want to talk about Duke.
Quickly this. We can talk about what it means for a Duke alum to put a gun to their temple because this is very powerful.
So our listener, Elise, wrote in and she says, I was at the game yesterday when Cooper flag got hurt. Right.
We're going to talk about that in a second. If that doesn't mean anything to you listening at home.
I kid you not. When he slipped, the families all around me screamed, Cooper, no, in the thickest Carolinian accent I've ever heard.
And well, now I'm a believer from the NC front lines, the Duke UNC front line. These Posey Isaac accents are legit.
So if you are not into basketball college or otherwise, you may not know why the image of Jason Isaacs in a Duke T-shirt with a gun to his head has been sort of popping up all around the internet but this is a very like meme heavy meme friendly uh white lotus always produces tremendous memes and this is something that parker posey was talking about on the official podcast this idea that like we live in this memetic world where mike white has created this perfect show that has the like whodunit aspect for the sort of reddit detective junkies has this sort of character study comedy of manner stuff for the like jane austen dickens you know whatever fans uh the checkoff fans if you will and then uh the memes for for the folks for the people for the folks and so for the people with brain rot who are just you know look we're all trying to do better check it in for judy so who's cooper flag and why should we care rob i mean whether you care is totally up to you cooper flag is probably going to be the next great nba player almost certainly going to be the number one pick in the nba draft this summer he had a pretty gnarly ankle injury recently and i will say i assume since this email was sent actually seems to be on the mend quite quickly and probably will be participating very soon in the ncaa tournament but this meme is is basically evergreen uh duke is a prohibitive favorite in the tournament i would say the overwhelming favorite and, a lot of things happen when Duke is involved. This is a team that is not opposed and not averse to just randomly blowing a game in the middle of the tournament, randomly destroying a run in real time.
And so the moment for that meme is coming. And I salute everyone out there who's just saving it down, ready to spring into action whenever something involving Duke happens.
Because look, and otherwise duke is never not in the noose so it's a it's a fraud it's a fraud school okay it's gonna be the gift that keeps on giving i think thank thank you to jason isaacs for for bringing it right to our door in the most literal fashion possible where let's do a quick uh and i did not ask you to prepare for this so i'm sorry to put you on the spot a quick of the top four memes produced from this season of uh because i believe it the the contenders are yes walton goggins reaction face to the sam walkwell monologue right the best part about that one is it is basically the same in video as it is in still shot like he is just frozen in place for minutes at a time and it's incredible the leslie bibb fake smile yeah full squint the parker posey sort of like her hand like she's also squinting like hands up sort of like blissed out on lorazepam wearing like a muumuu sort of situation or parker posey's reaction to the dudes on the yacht either one of those. And then Tim Ratliff in a Duke t-shirt with a gun.
I think at this moment in time, Goggins is the most powerful. We've all been through this together and we're all kind of in that particular foxhole watching this episode.
So it just feels like it's bringing us all into one place i feel like um the one that's gonna last endure is leslie bibb i agree i was this is exactly what i was thinking that one will live on the internet forever it just has infinite utility it is it's it's perfect fodder to throw into the dumb internet argument that you kind of want to get out of and back away from.

And look, who among us is not subject to those?

I feel like it's going to be I would like to see it replace Homer slowly backing into a head.

It is the southern version of that.

Very much so.

OK, I want to talk about Belinda and Fabian for a second yeah um because fabian really disappointed me um we got we got an email from a listener who was who was talking about who sent us a clip from babylon berlin a show that i did not watch um but the actor plays fabian was on and sings beautifully on that show um and so they were saying like maybe we'll get to see him sing like as it's sort of been he's been sort of raising it here and there because here he's saying on Babylon Berlin and it was wonderful and beautiful Fabian I was rooting for you but now I am I cannot I can root for you no longer giving your repulsive reaction to Belinda here and one of our other listeners Alicia wrote in um saying and this is something I meant to raise earlier but there were these questions like why isn't melinda acting faster why isn't she googling greg faster why isn't she being more confrontational why you know why is she taking her time in terms of like yeah reporting this digging into this blah blah and i i do think there's something to be said because mike white is interested in sort of like definite social dynamics of of black women feeling like they're not believed in given in any given scenario. And so to watch this this woman, you know, who Fabian is like, you should be flattered by the attention of this of this psychopath, this rich white psychopath, you know, is is Mike Wade, mike white i think tries not and he has given interviews about this because he doesn't have a writer's room and it's just him a white guy writing about this stuff he he gets like um hesitant to dip his toe too much into sort of speaking from a position that he has not lived himself a way to solve that mike white is to have a to have a writer's room.
I believe strongly in writer's rooms, but that's okay. You do you.
But what do you think of the Belinda-Fabian interaction? How are you feeling about that? I mean, it strikes me as just a very, again, recognizable version of feckless compliance. This sort of like, don't ask questions, don't overstep.
It's taking customer service. And I mean, what is White Lotus, if if not on some level a show about the customer like the service industry right and taking it to these ridiculous luxurious extremes where the first rule is not do no harm it is do not do you like do not disturb the guests under any possible circumstances and so i think we need to open up the conversation you know guy talks been getting a lot of grief about being bad at his job and he is quite bad at his job fabian is also aggressively bad at his

job though yeah guy talk continues to be not great at his job terrible um but fabian like

not he doesn't even know the owner of the hotel's name like how to pronounce it correctly

okay listen who's getting employee of the month and why is it Pam?

Why is it definitely Pam?

Pam seems to really get it.

She understands how to back slowly out of a room.

She understands how to gather the phones,

but also,

you know,

make herself scarce.

Valentin and Pornchai seem to be like,

you know,

having,

I don't know if,

if we could say that Pornchai is having sex on the job.

Valentin definitely is having sex on the job.

Pornchai is just like fraternizing with a fellow staff member, which I don't know if that's right upon him in this establishment, you know?

Look, no judgments there.

And I think Mooka is also doing a great job.

You know, there are people at the White Lotus who are are like okay you you understand your role in this entire dynamic um punch is like an interesting part of that i i don't know if because ultimately he's not just a colleague but he's kind of responsible for belinda kind of showing her around and look i am he's showing her around ralph he certainly is uh i'm like i'm i'm happy for both of those kids i i'm glad they finally figured it out i'm glad belinda ultimately has something to do that is not just worry and be antsy about greg like i think this overall this plot thread has been so slow moving because half of it has been Belinda by herself, worrying that no one is going to believe her.

Part of it is her trying to explain the situation first to Ponchai, who's just kind of like listening, just kind of tuned in and listening, but makes no gesture whatsoever as to what she should do.

Or whether he even fully understands the gravity of the situation.

And then, of course, Fabian shooting her down for absolutely no reason other than he just doesn't want to be bothered and doesn't want to bother the guests Fabian I'm just like enormously disappointed in you um we've been talking all seasons about this idea of like um and and White Lotus does this all the time this idea of like doubling in the case of the fancies tripling these mirrors uh through which you can sort of better understand characters something I thought it was really interesting that one of our listeners, Jefferson, wrote in about was the unexpected, but probably we should have expected it, Tim and Rick parallels. When we meet them in episode one on the boat, they're fighting over having a cigarette on the deck of the boat, and it's like, these two couldn't be more different.
He's a family man, and he's con man you know like all sort of stuff like that but can we wind back to that that fight for a second because i i gotta say i think i'm team rick yeah they're outside fair game yeah you as the person who doesn't want to be in the smoke line are also free to move you and your family can move to the front of the boat in some cases i would say the front of the is an even better seat. So what are you doing back here? The fact that Rick and that Tim inside of this episode, we heard about it a bit when he was on the boat and talking about his lineage, the governor of North Carolina and like all that sort of stuff like that.
Right. But like inside of this episode, we get this this pressure.
You're asking for juicy monologues from some of our main characters.

I would say I wouldn't call this like a monologue, but like a juicy moment from Tim Ratliff talking about the pressure that's been on him his whole life and talking about the shadow of his father over him.

And of course, Rick has been talking about the shadow of his father over him.

And our listener pointed out that Rick's got a gun and Tim's got a gun.

These are the only two characters. Sorry, Guy Talk.
These are the only two characters right now on the show who have guns two daddy's boys with guns what could possibly go wrong it's justified time i think um my daddy anyway so um what do you think of them as mirrors is that is that interesting to you i mean i've been waiting for it all season for them to be in close proximity again since that kind of first episode argument and they've really just had those sorts of moments right i think rick kind of passed by him when when uh yeah well that's on the boat when when tim was out making one of his panicked like harried phone calls passed by him and made some little quip but they need to be in the same space for an extended period of time and i'll say if i have kind of a general disappointment in where we are five episodes deep into the season of white lotus there just isn't as much cross contamination as i

would want other than the people who are currently on the yacht right like you really want to have

talked to each other sorry who's that no please i think chelsea for all of her like annoyance with

saxon whatever i want piper and chelsea to have a conversation i think piper would have a much

Thank you. that no please i think chelsea for all of her like annoyance with saxon whatever i want piper and chelsea to have a conversation i think piper would have a much better holiday and chelsea would be less annoyed by the absence of rick i think i feel like they would be good for each other piper and chelsea i'm rooting for it i'll say this i think piper needs a chelsea in her life uh more more more benefit to piper than to chelsea but i think he would spare chelsea from having to like talk to saxon so you know there's always that so the perfect part about the rat lift kids is that they are all kind of tough hangs in their own way and i really don't want to spend time with any of them and as usual chelsea is the best hang on the show and she's she's going through it a little bit more this week she's clearly feeling rick's absence she's trying to process her own place in the world her own place in her relationship her own place in this foursome that is apparently manifesting right in front of her i i'm worried for chelsea as usual i all i want from i mean these brothers i don't want anything more to happen but if something more happens between these brothers that's its own thing and i I'm not that emotionally invested in it.
I need Chelsea to stay out of it, whatever it is. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah.
For Rick, I'm rooting for these kids. I go back and forth on whether I'm rooting for them as a pairing, them as a relationship.
He's like her child, her 50-year-old child, Rob. What could be wrong with that dynamic? that dynamic what are you talking about it all seems very healthy do you want to talk about the sam rockwell monologue we've been talking around it do you want to talk about it i think we have to but talking around it is kind of fair for this show because the show this whole episode feels like it's kind of talking around it at a certain point well and i think what's also interesting you know um bill was quite enamored with his monologue we talked about it a ton on sunday um people in general seem quite enamored and it is a big moment you know we did the sort of like oscar guest star guessing game and then after we recorded that episode you did go home and watch the screener and you were like sam rockwell didn't see it coming so i'm so mad i didn't know the leslie bibb connection or else it's the writing is on the wall right it all makes sense as to how he would end up on the sidelines in thailand and they would just tap him in for a great scene pour one out for your idea of eddie redmayne at the full moon festival though i thought that was an incredible idea but sam rockwell oscar winner shows up to do this scene and it seems like do more because rick's like i'm gonna need you for this con i have to pull right like he said he has a director friend so like it seems like they're gonna go full full uh con buddy com job which is a great yeah uh premise for anything how how rockwell do you think rockwell is gonna go when playing a director because this is a man who knows how to ham it up um true that's a great point um but this is chamomile tea frank so i don't know if he's at a different point in his life um he's not making see how they run anymore you know like he's just trying to chill out and get a good night's sleep but i think that like i i feel mixed on this monologue i think it's an incredible moment a great tv moment but to your point um and i had this in my notes before before you were talking about this but like it's a character monologue.
It's a theme monologue. It's a monologue that's based to the theme of White Lotus.
I mean, it is a character monologue. It's just a character we don't have any attachment to.
I have zero investment in Frank. Yeah.
Zero. I mean, I have more now, but...
I have 5% investment in Frank. but like know it's i i when when i think about great tv monologues and this is something we want to talk about in a second which is like rob and i have tried to limit ourselves to a few but we've rounded up like our what are the best tv monologues of all time does this rank you know all that sort of stuff like that For me, a great TV monologue is not just like beautiful writing or thematically resonant.
It is a character moment. And that may not prove to be true of everything that I have put together here today.
But this is like something I was thinking about that I was like, why isn't this striking me as one of the greatest TV moments of all time, the way that it is striking other people? And I think I'm just missing, and White Lotus gets accused of this sometimes, I'm missing that emotional investment to make it like a full home run for me. You know what I mean? What do you think? That's where I would say it is a great monologue.
It's incredibly well written. I do want to engage in the ideas because i think they're interesting on their own terms and it is it is not unwelcome to have a character outside the story come in to sort of give a thesis statement time and you know in certain kinds of fiction in certain kinds of narrative i understand the appeal of that but yeah i'm with you that i want it to mean more because i want the character it's coming from to mean more to me and so even when I'm thinking about things in the world of White Lotus, which I think can be quite personal and I think can come from a place of, if not heart, at least like a really complex emotional center.
To me, the gold standard for like a White Lotus monologue is more like some of what we get from Daphne in season two in terms of like her big speech about having the trainer and like finding a fulfillment

in life and it's like it's this a great white lotus monologue to me is both very like penetrative

but also still mysterious and muddled in the way that the show is often mysterious and muddled and

so this is some of those things but it can't be actually penetrative because we don't care about

the character it's coming from other than we care about sam rockwell and so what are we to do with

all of these ideas but no bucket to put it in that makes any sense to us? And there's not even because, you know, he's giving the monologue to Rick, a character I am emotionally invested in. Yes.
But Rick's response is like memeable and comic. But I don't know what this revelation, if this is shifting anything inside of rick the way that like you know some of his sessions with amrita back at the white lotus certainly was shifting something inside of him those were big sort of emotional tectonic plates moving around inside of rick yes whereas this is more like amused wonderment and vague support.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Is sort of what it seemed like.
Now, I could be wrong and it could be that like whatever crossroads Rick is headed towards with Jim Hollinger, that when it comes to do I do a murder or do I not, he is thinking about his friend who's talking about the larger idea of identity which is also what amrita was talking about so it's possible that this will have that but in the moment every shift to goggins face is a comedy shift and not a like emotional shift well i think i think for now it is and you would hope in the ultimate payoff it is more than that and if you want to start connecting the dots of what this could actually mean to someone like rick i would say it's this to me at this point in the story what frank is saying is more in conversation with maybe what saxon and lockie are talking about right this idea of like some people in this world just want to be used and frank has been that guy He has been the user and he has seen through it and he has fucked his way to enlightenment.

And he has found at the end of the day, like, what does it cost the person doing the using

if that is all that you do?

And you can start replacing some of the nouns in there and some of the verbs in there and

take it from Rick's perspective or almost any character in the season of White Lotus

of what does it do to you when you're putting all these other people in your life to help contextualize your own identity? When you are using those people to triangulate who you are, right? Like Rick is defining himself by this story that his mom told him about who his dad may or may not be. And that's the only way he can really understand his place in the world.
And you could say the same thing about Jacqueline with her friends.

You could say the same thing about Tim Ratliff and all the people at the club and sort of the pillar of the community identity that he's constructed for himself. All of these people are using in their own ways.
That's not just using. It's just like this is that's a natural human approach.
so i would say especially in a in a in a let's say like the fish tank that is white lotus

when you go on vacation to a place like this and which is all about status and displaying some a front of some kind you are constantly evaluating yourself against the people you're traveling with or the other guests who are chowing down dragon fruit at the

next table you know what i mean so like it well have you seen the price of dragon fruit it's ridiculous anything near eggs um did you see that uh so our our pal mallory rubin sent us a a text last night i don't know what his time um uh about the price of hard-boiled eggs at erwan well specifically and in very mallory style it seemed like door dashing or uber eating herself some hard-boiled eggs from erwan i think she was ordering something she was door dashing something else from erwan yes yes she was like take a get a load of these hard-boiled eggs from erwan did you know that uh do you see that jacqueline was carrying an erwanwhon, uh, tote bag, uh, in a previous episode? It all comes back together.

Does not surprise me one bit.

It's, it's using people, but it's also just like a status. It's like, how do I understand myself if not in contrast to someone else?

Um, how do I, Lachlan, understand myself if not in contrast to my stronger, stronger taller older brother or my more intellectually engaged older sister um but isn't this what frank's doing at the end of the day too it's like am i the middle-aged white guy or am i the asian woman that i'm trying to have sex with like where where am i where do i end in this other person begin and who's to say we aren't each other the enlightened space not putting that label on yourself or that box around yourself identity is a prison rich man poor man sort of thing inside of the inside of the show um yeah i think i think rick rick not rick comparing himself to chelsea like the way in which rick comparing himself to a snake trapped trapped in a cage and certainly rick comparing himself to Chelsea, like the way in which Rick comparing himself to a snake trapped in a cage and certainly Rick comparing himself to this like fairy tale of a do-gooder father. And what will it mean that if you're if most of your identity is constructed around or in comparison to or in the shadow of something that winds up to not be true, you know, what does that do to you for you? Does you or does it you know damn you i don't know joe i don't think it's gonna liberate him unfortunately just let him out of the cage it'll be fine but even the snakes are just part of the snake show we're all in the snake show together rob all right gg you want to hit me with some of your favorite TV monologues?

This was a very easy prompt.

Just find the greatest TV monologues of all time.

And I gave you like a couple hours notice.

Yeah.

I think you and I had like separate but equal meltdowns around this because like I thought this would be a fun breezy idea.

And then you and I both got stuck in there's too many options um what do you want to start with i have a very normal 10 item list for your prompt how about this i'm gonna start i'm gonna try to start with things that i think you might also have i think you might also have nora durst in the season three finale of the leftovers explaining her journey to the other side my assumption is that you would have Nora Durst in this in the this is the game I did Kevin from the finale you've given Kevin talking about like like that's how I found you Nora I refuse to believe you were gone that that always gets me I'm always crying at that point in the in the finale um all right what else might you have do you have Jamie Lannister on how he became the Kingslayer in Game of Thrones obviously I didn't know if you'd go Tyrion like there's a lot of Game of Thrones to choose from just like there's a lot of leftovers to choose from but Jamie Lannister in the episode episode kiss by fire in the bathtub with brianne talking about um burn them all is of course jamie my name is jamie uh of course my game of thrones one um do you have this is like game of uh go fish do you rob have anya in the buffy vampire slayer episode Body, talking about death and her not understanding it. I considered it.
I don't consider it to be a true monologue so much as an outburst. It's like it's almost not long enough to be monologue territory to me.
It's on the shorter side. It's legend shit from maybe my favorite character in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
So, of course, it holds a very special place in my heart uh i went a different whedon direction though do you have any other joss whedon stuff you have this one i don't think would make many other lists but is very important to me which is in the angel episode epiphany angel has this big understanding of like identifying your place in the universe based on these like big omens and like prophecy and understanding that and he has this big speech about how if nothing we do matters like capital m matters in an omen prophecy sense that all that matters is what we do and it kind of puts into puts a very grand like demons and vampires level show into a very boots on the ground like how do we help literally a single person this week kind of show in a way that i appreciate welcome to the list david borianas i didn't expect to find you here and yet here you are no rob we haven't talked about the show but do you have anything from the star wars show and or you know i don't but that's just an oversight on my part i'm guessing do you have the fiona shaw hologram speech that one's incredible there's also the anti-circus uh speech uh one way out but uh i've got a stellan scarzard speech of course i think about this living in the shadows etc etc what is my sacrifice i'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them i burn my decency for someone else's future i burn my life to make a sunrise that i know i'll never see and the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude so what do i sacrifice everything that is one of the best things i've ever seen on television and or outstanding yeah we're about to get more and or i'm so excited about it i'm gonna go for more low-hanging fruit how about breaking bad i am the one who knocks uh it was on my long list but i was hoping you would have it so i don't have it again just checking them off how about mad men nostalgia obviously obviously i haven't this is one i have like an art print of of this full text in addition to like a mock-up i mean it's look it's a beautiful speech nostalgia and the pain of an old wound did you have it like on your dorm wall like is that how long have you had it this has been in the it's not quite dorm wall but like first apartment past dorm wall the most embarrassing in retrospect poster you or like the most prototypically college poster you had up when you were in college did i have the like a flick the photo still shot of muhammad ali maybe i'm trying to remember there definitely was something purchased from like the campus poster store but i will say i did bring a lot of my own stuff i did bring a lot i happened upon like a

great vintage poster store here in dallas that has since shut down and uh brought a lot of stuff with me that was more like the departed kill bill star well i like tarantino for sure at that point in time um i think maybe some old boy in there so it's you know definitely college zoned but not quite campus poster store I had the train spawning Choose Life monologue art print. Gotta do it.
Come on. I'm just saying that's my most basic bitch.
Yeah. This device isn't a spaceship.
It's a time machine. It goes backwards and forwards.
The carousel speech from Mad Men. Perfect television.
Another great one as character, right? Like this speech being a personal revelation for don draper as he is delivering it is what makes it so good at the end of the speech he's he's showing photos of and what i love about watching that pitch spoilers for madman but he's like showing photos of his family of betty and even even when we watch that we're like it's not as pretty as this picture but going all the way through Mad Men and knowing where he winds up with his family at the end of that show, that scene hits even harder on rewatch. What else do you have? Every time Al Swearengin opens his mouth in Deadwood, you cannot make me choose between them.
Many times he's just like talking at someone, often like a sex worker who may or may not be servicing him as he gives one of these monologues so legend shit uh across deadwood but especially from elsewhere and jen on the legend shit beat i will submit to the jury um chuck's uh courtroom meltdown from better call saul where he says oh yeah canary he defecated through a sunroof and i saved him uh what a sick joke i have to say on i love better call saul i think it's wonderful television chuck mcgill um incredible stuff from him in that but what i love about speaking of like the meme culture that we live in, if you go on any Reddit TV board, someone at some point will either say chicanery or what a sick joke. Like this monologue is like lives forever in the television Reddit subreddits.
All right. What else do you have? It's a beautiful thing.
I would not be me if I did not include Jed Bartlett talking with God in the west wing two cathedrals two cathedrals the real ones no i mean maybe the most acclaimed and beloved episode of that show so for for good reason do you have any doctor who i don't which which doctor did you go with 11 uh the pandorica opens um okay and i almost i did you do any friday night lights it almost feels like cheating i think if you're gonna do one it's the pre-championship game like every man is going to lose at a point in his life kind of speech a doctor who speech and a coach taylor speech i agree kind of feels a little bit like cheating but um here we are what else you have i think if i was gonna choose a doctor who speech it would be i want to say it's david tenet's like introduction episode where he ends up aping like half of the lion king as he's as he's going on his speech wonderful wonderful wonderful turn uh bojack horseman bojack's eulogy for his mom slash reckoning with generational trauma uh light and cheery stuff from the netflix animation suite as always um speaking of netflix and light and cheery um are you a flanagan head have you watched any of the mike flanagan properties i actually just like not made it to it for some reason midnight mass which i re-watch every year at halloween is a uh like monologue topia of just deep thoughts.

And there is one that a character gives as she's dying. And actually she's talking about like Buddhist ideas in terms of like what it

means to die,

which I think is very relevant to,

to white Lotus,

but a Flanagan monologue has to be in the mix.

So for sure,

I feel like we're hitting all of the major players in the monologuing scene really um i have two more what else do you have i have kind of two more but they're from one series and i mostly kind of split split the baby on this one uh for fleabag i couldn't decide between the season one confessional for fleabag herself or the hot priest's wedding sermon in season two

which i think is just beautiful uh so it depends on the day it depends on my level of dread and how much i want to engage with the optimism and hope in the universe but either one depending on your flavor i went with confessional fleabag confessional that's that's a cry for help joe last but not least and uh i'm okay that i'm the only one that carmy's seven minute monologue from the bear season one finale uh and to go back to this sort of like uh character centric thing this is carmy talking about his brother and talking about what his brother meant

to him and this is where we get the sort of like let it rip uh sort of catchphrase and and however you feel about where the bear has journeyed on its on its run re-watching that monologue seven minutes most of which is one shot one just push on um jeremy allen white's face there's like one small cut to a closer shot but it's mostly i would say five minutes of just an actor talking at the camera about his brother and what and and what living in the shadow of his brother is meant to him and stuff like that so like carmy's yeah like that when i i remember watching the bear season one and there's like obviously like the water episode and stuff like But I remember watching this monologue and being like, this is really something in terms of like the confidence to just let an actor who is not even an Oscar winner, Sam Rockwell, because Jeremy Ellen White, you know, was just lip from shameless at the time. Right.
Like to let that. Well, they found their own Oscar winning guest stars, you know, they figured it out.
The little engine that could, that the bear but they started with they were they were an out of nowhere show it's true it's carmy monologue and i think about it all the time so those are some of our we had a couple hours to think about top tv monologues i it's impossible i want to sort of honorable mention uh our uh producer justin sales wanted to get sopranos in there and since rob and i canonically famously have not seen the sopranos it's a season four sopranos monologue uh economic downturn um time immemorial these are the these are the words that justin said to me that i needed to represent for sopranos on the pot so there you go i would love to hear what other people's favorite monologues are at PrestigeTV at Spotify.com slash Monkeyshootout at gmail.com. I would say especially if your favorite monologue comes before the quote unquote golden age of PrestigeTV.
If you have like a pre-2005 monologue that really speaks to you, I would love to know what it is. What's our oldest? West Wing is like our oldest one right yeah west way i mean i the angel the angel one was season two i can't remember that might be early 2000s early 2000s yeah um all right so we did mostly mostly white lotus with a little side of tv monologues throughout history that we've enjoyed um i don't know i'll i'll be curious to see but i don't know that the sam rockwell monologue will linger with me the way that those have but it will not i don't know well i will say this i i've just come to visit my parents one of the first things my mother said to me was whoever writes white lotus needs to be arrested in regard to this specific monologue so i think it's it's registering with people in different ways all right i i do find it to be tremendously memorable and i think i'm going to remember certainly the goggins reaction shots certainly like yes if if not the philosophical core of the argument certainly the shock value of having it land in the middle of this season and that's kind of i will say the downside of having it is this season has needed that sort of juice quite badly and to get it in a way that sparks contrast with everything around it i think does end up hurting white lotus a little bit well i mean episode five coming in the middle of the season with this monologue and, uh, two brothers doing more than smooching, less than making out, um, is definitely a lot of people are kind of enervated by it.
Like, you know, except what happens next. We're revving up.
I hope they are not revving up. I hope they are cooling down.
Put the, put those boys in a cold shower, not together, not together. Where is Kate to say time to go to bed? Everyone.
Um your mom listen to this podcast i hope not me too maybe hi mom hi mom if you do rob's mom uh anything else you want to say about why lotus or anything else before we go i just was really personally hurt by the fact that we breeze our way into bangkok and you know in a version of the show i would very much love to see just like rick palling around town great we're just like one shot down the street of all this beautiful street food and we don't get one one lingering loving shot of some some wonderful thai street food what are we doing here what are we doing here i'm here i am here for my version of luxury which is not you know the the yoga retreat within the white lotus i i i want street meat you know i want i want food that is so natively incandescently hot that i could not possibly eat it but i will try that's what i want all right well that does it for us um i'm joanna robinson that's a street beat Mahoney? Is that... That's not a thing.
Is that something that's going to catch on? Simply not a thing.

And... I'm Joanna Robinson.
That's a street meat Mahoney. Is that, is that, that's not, that's not a thing.
It's going to catch on simply not a thing. Um, and I would like to thank Justin sales for his sopranos input among many other things.
Uh, John Richter for all of his great work on the, uh, video front end Donnie beat him for, you know, doing, doing the edits, making a sound as doing his best with what we put out there in the content sphere. And we will see you later today for a live severance Q&A mailbag.
If we're

wearing different clothes, don't worry about it. What is time? We'll see you soon.
Bye.