‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate.

Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to grow up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and pina colada flavored creamers.
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you can listen to them

right now and not only are we going to break down

episode 5 we have

answers for the prosthetic

possibly maybe not penis

in episode 4

more penis talk your husband requested

he had some commentary

on the last episode yeah

what was his text? A lot of dick talk.

A lot of dick talk. More dick talk

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All right.

Episode five.

Best episode of the season.

Yes.

Thumbs up.

Just sensational stuff.

A rollercoaster ride features quite possibly the best scene in the history of the show from a holy shit we're doing this standpoint.

I thought you were going to say in the history of television.

Is that how you feel about the Sam Rockwell scene again? Yeah. I know how he feels about it.
Big takeaways. My number one is Sam Rockwell, legend.
Coming in hot. He's missed four episodes.
Flying in, Thailand, go see his old friend Rick in Bangkok in a hotel. Yep.
They're just catching up. So what have you been up to? Well, I've been sober for 10 months and then we are off and it's a whole monologue.
It's impeccably acted. Yeah.
Goggins is perfect. The audience is marrying Goggins.
Just like what is happening right now? And it goes for like, I don't know, four minutes. Five minutes.
Five minutes. And I think it's in the running for best scene in the history of the show.
How did it make you feel? You have often been known to say sex is a poetic act. It's a metaphor.
What was it like to see yourself on television in this way? It was finally somebody tapping into my inner monologues at all times. But the thing is, Because, you know, once you've had sex with thousands of women, what's next? Now you have to think like the woman.
You got to sit down and ask yourself, what is desire? Yeah, what is desire? What was the best moment of Sam Rockwell's career up until this episode? Oh, crowded. I mean, he's an Oscar winner.
He was nominated for Oscars two years in a row, right? My personal favorite would just be Moon, which is a movie I absolutely love and think he's unbelievable. Also, Box of Moonlight, which is like a really early Sam Rockwell that I really, really love that's like really unhinged Sam Rockwell.
I guess as the house of our duo, we would have to say Justin Hammer. One of the genuine bright spots.
Also, Galaxy Quest. Yeah.
Incredible Galaxy Quest. Yeah.
He was one of those hot young actor, watch out for this guy. This guy you're going to be hearing from this dude.
And then had this too. And it never quite happened, but then it happened in a totally different, better way, which is he's like beloved.
But I wouldn't say he's not like an A plus lister. No, he has a supporting actor Oscar.
Mike White once again, minding supporting actor field for... He goes on wiki and just looks at the supporting categories and is like, oh, this guy.
Who's next? Yeah, I think this is a perfect casting because you can definitely, like, Sam Rockwell and Wong Goggins feel like they're just pals. And we mentioned before that Sam Rockwell, that Leslie Bibb is his partner, So it's just like couples that film in Thailand together.
Stay together? I don't know. What a fun family excursion for them.
Chamomile tea and pajamas at the pool party, you know? Correct. Well, we'll dive into Sam later when we get there in the recap part.
But holy shit. It just feels like the Emmy is like, there's just no way.
I don't know. We don't know if he's coming back.
I don't know how many guest actor episodes. I think even if he's in the rest of the season, he can go for the guest actor, which is the easier one to get and what he should go for.
It definitely seems like he's coming back because Rick asked him to keep the next night free. I think if I had to guess.
Well, role play. I don't know.
I would say he's in like two, three, but he's not coming back to the White Lotus with them.

Like he's, this is a character that stays in Bangkok.

So if Rick's coming back to the White Lotus, I don't think he's coming with them.

So I would say.

I feel like we're going to see him in episode six when Rick executes his con or attacks

to and confronts Hollinger.

And he plays the director.

He gets to play the director.

Yeah, he plays the director and that's it.

And then Rick goes back and finds Chelsea in whatever state that she is in after everything

that happened on the yacht.

Thank you. And he gets to play the director.
He plays the director and that's it. And then Rick goes back and finds Chelsea in whatever state that she is in after everything that happened on the yacht.
Really rarely on TV anymore do you have a scene out of nowhere where you're just completely captivated. I think it's harder and harder to pull off because there's so much TV.
We've seen so many variations of the same thing. I remember that you never watched Sopranos yet, but like when Carmela and Tony actually had their fight when she confronted him.
Oh my God.

And for four minutes, it was, you're just frozen.

Yes.

Oh my God, what's happening?

It just doesn't, Lost had a couple great ones.

Certainly.

Like the, I mean, the best one ever when, when Jack with the beard,

we have to go back.

And that was like, that was another one where you're like,

I'm not going to put the same Rockwell monologue on like that kind of level,

but it's pretty close.

It's not not Penny's boat, but it's up there.

No, I like all of the color,

the neons, the, like, flashing lights in the full moon party

and the pool party.

I don't know what their light system was

at the pool party,

but it looked amazing.

But in that scene,

in the Goggins-Rockwell scene,

there's, like, this wide shot

where they're all sort of, like,

doubled exposure on top of each other.

On the mirror, yeah.

That was really cool again. That was a really cool shot, yeah.
Did you know the second you, because you had both like. I knew he was coming.
I just didn't know how. But we didn't know.
And like before that though, we had talked earlier in the season, someone will show up in the middle of the season. There will be that little like bit of garnish that you didn't know.
And we knew because of two prior seasons of White Lotus to expect something, but we had no idea what shape it would take inside of this season. And then when we had the Rick phone call, we're like, who could that be? But the second that you saw him, like when Goggins goes down to the lobby and it's Sam Rockwell, right away do you know that you're in for the night of your life? We're in for a ride.
Because Sam Rockwell is not just going to Bangkok to mail in an episode of White Lotus. To be like, here's your gun, bye.
Like, that's not what... Another Chekhov's gun has entered the chat.
Yeah, yeah. And a really nice leather duffel.
I don't know if Joanna knows this, but I used to be a writer. How are the fingers? The fingers still work? Fingers barely.
Used to be a writer, but I loved myself a long, well-written, well-acted monologue. It's still one of my favorites this reminded me a little there's this really weird late 90s movie called Your Friends and Neighbors with Ben Stower and Jason Patrick Jason Patrick has this crazy monologue about having sex with somebody in high school and it's like five minutes long and it was the same kind of thing he's telling it it to Ben Stower.
I won't spoil it, but he goes through this whole thing.

And Ben Stower is just like frozen, like can't believe what's happening and goes through.

But it doesn't, it's really hard to pull off.

Yeah.

I will say we can get to this later if we want to.

But when he was like, I looked great.

I was like, have we ever seen Sam Rockwell in drag before?

And I couldn't find anything.

But Walton Goggins, of course, like very famously was in drag for his appearance on Sons of Anarchy. Played this great character, Venus Van Damme.
Looked amazing, actually. And I was just like, Sam, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is.
You looked incredible. We had three episodes left.
I would like to see the evidence. So we'll get to Sam later, but he was the number one big takeaway.
I have three more. Okay.
I feel like everyone on the show could potentially die now. I'm not crossing off one person.
Can I float a theory by you? Yeah. Well, Rob and I were talking about this about in previous seasons of White Lotus with Armand and Tanya, we never have a character who dies who has like strong emotional attachments

to other characters

because you don't want to end

the White Lotus season

on like a grieving family.

That's not something

they've ever done before, right?

You've never had anyone

at the airport montage at the end

like actively majorly grieving.

So will he do something

different this season?

Maybe.

But like that's if any of the Ratliff's died if Rick or Chelsea died that would be such a bummer note to end a season that is usually sort of like tragic comic So when the first two seasons ended the first one, Jake Lacey's in the airport Yeah, and Shane is there and Rachel comes back And the second one is, they're running in the water because there's a dead body. Oh, in terms of the opening.
Yeah, I'm thinking like what they gave away in the thing. Daphne is in the ocean.
This one, it's mid-shooting. Right.
So we don't know how much is left. That's why I feel like everybody's on the table.
So you get hit by a straight bullet. You think everyone dies at the end of the season? Or one person.
But I'm just not... Even like Piper I wouldn't rule out.
You just never know. There was that very ominous cut to Piper.
It was so weird. She's meditating alone and her brothers are having a...
That's what made me think of it. It was such a weird cut to her.
Yeah, but was it weird? But I think, you know, what's interesting, and this is ultimately the sign of a really well-conceived and structured and executed season, is that I think you're both right. Like, it feels five-eighths of the way through that everybody could be involved as an impetus in what happens and potentially die or be harmed in some way, hurt in some way.
And it all, because, like, all of those possibilities feel like they've been appropriately set up. And then also like at the end of the day, probably the damage will be contained to a few people, even if it is a shootout that is caused by someone getting spooked by a monkey or a lizard.
Though I think what you're saying does like still make, we've probably talked about this the most throughout the season, like the Guy Toc corner of the story or the Valentine corner of the story the most ripe for like the contained damage. If a Russian dies or Greg Gary dies.
Or Greg, great. That's the other thing and that's like increasingly to bring Gary slash Greg, Greg, Gary back.
I was thinking about this, watching this episode, like sometimes with White Lotus, I don't mean this as a insult. I actually mean this as a compliment.
It actually is like the thing that you think it's going to be right. A hundred percent.
And that's part of what's interesting about it. It's not really about the twist or the shock, like throughout season two, I mean, throughout season one, we're watching Armand spiral and we're watching Shane and Armand on a collision course.
And then throughout season two, the number of moments where there was some reason to parse whether Tanya was headed towards some doom or Greg was the cowboy or this and that, it's like it all was pointing toward the place it went. Yeah, but you're making an old school sports mistake.
You're taking a very small sample size and projecting. We've only had two other seasons.
He might just zag and be like, I'm taking out your favorite character this time. Right, so he could truly surprise us by doing something actually distinct from what our expectation now is.
Or maybe that is part of the commentary of the show. This was the first episode where I was like, it's going to be Piper.
He's setting us up. She's found, she's the only one that has found the right level of religious.
Piper will be meditating free from her family bullshit. And getting shot by a stray bullet.
I disagree with both of you. I think Piper is going to decide she wants the life of privilege.
she's going to fall back in with her family.

That's what happens on White Lotus.

She doesn't want to be a Buddhist.

That's not always what happens on White Lotus.

Quinn left. He ran away at the airport

and he went and frolicked in the ocean.

But he didn't start as the rebel.

Right. That's true.

Also, Quinn lost his iPad.

I know. He couldn't jack us.

Once a 16-year-old loses their porn iPad. So did Lachlan.
Lachlan lost his iPad. So that was my second thing.
It's all the man's fault. Two more things.
Well, third thing. The Buddhism really kicked in this episode.
And there's a religious something happening now. Who am I? What should I do? We had snake fire tsunamis.
Now we're in, all right, the concept of choice, faith, what do you believe in? We're now moving into that. There's a lot of big ass themes being juggled right now.
This idea that like the whole Sam Rockwell monologue is an attempt, a lost person trying to figure out who they are. Who am I? And where can I find that? Can I find it having sex with thousands of women, dressing up differently, or Buddhism and sobriety, I guess? And then Tim Ratliff, who's praying to his Christian God at the end of this episode, wants to know what should I do? Which is like a callback to what Saxon said earlier, where there's like two kinds of people in this world.
And there are people who just want to be told what to do.

And so like,

who am I?

What should I do?

These are the big questions.

These are what we searched for answers for inside of spirituality.

And then Saxon,

they take away his choice because he does drugs,

which he doesn't want to do.

He ended up on the other side of that.

He easily is the drug.

I don't need drugs.

I am the drug.

But so they take away his choice and then he starts acting pretty goofy. Wow.
I mean, if that's the word you want to use. My daughter Zoe, who I watched for the second time last night with.
Yeah. And I asked her what drug it was because I know nothing.
And she's like, oh, that's ecstasy. Yeah, Molly.
I was like, why did you know that so fast? I got mad at her. She's like, dad party dress I don't know what's going on Buddhism then the last theme aging actress vanity I think Mike White's trying to something with that Jacqueline character about somebody who's on the tail end of her run as like a desired actress.
And this has been the last two episodes, right? They're at the old hotel. I'm not old yet.
They're on the dance floor. And there's the woman checking them out dancing.
And she's like, look at me. I still got it.
And then at the end, I'm going to be the one that has sex with Valentin. Yeah.
There's something he's trying to do with that. Well, yeah.
Just Jacqueline being a person who needs to feel vital, young, have attention. But this is something you think he's trying to say something bigger with that? Well, I think he's...
By the way, I have no inside info. But he's definitely worked with different types of actresses, right? He's had a couple older actresses that he's worked with.
I just wonder if there's some extra juice on that. I think that those points are all part of the same text, though.
And even though this season is set in Thailand and Buddhism is a central, actual, active aspect of the text, like it's not subtext, that's been there since the beginning, you know, minute one of the show and has been a through line across all three seasons. Like, what role does desire play in your life? And what decisions do you make when you're guided by desire and you're ruled by desire? And then what decisions do you make if you feel like you have to rebel against that? Like, the Jacqueline thing is of a piece with that entirely.
It's how she, the thing she desires is to be desired, right? Is to be an object of other people's desire. And so she is potentially sabotaging her friendships, her marriage, core relationships in her life to feel that for a minute.

it. And I think also, I really agree with you.
And I think also this idea that at the White Lotus, when you're at the White Lotus, you have achieved so much luxury. You have had so many desires in

your life fulfilled. Every desire you could possibly want is probably filled.
And how existential, how lost are you when that happens to you? How lost are so many of these privileged people? And so for Jacqueline, who has so much to just need that much more, or for Sam Rockwell to have like fucked his way through Bangkok and he's just like, and yet I need more. I feel hollow.
Yeah. Well, the white Lotus recurring theme.
If it looks good on the surface, it's probably not. Things aren't going great.
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All right. Start of the episode.
Our guy, Guy Talk. Brutal.
Listen. The worst security guard.
I mean, at least in recent history. I don't know if I'm willing to go worst security guard of all time.
I love Guy Talk. Terrible at his job.
Terrible. He should be working this job.
Really stupid. But like, who's in the booth? Terrible.
So you take like a couple minutes? Leaves the booth over and over again. Smart enough to actually go through the video and see who does it.
And there's Tim Ratliff coming out with a gun and then does this weird thing where he's stalking the dinner table for a while.

Yeah, super subtle.

Doesn't have the balls to say like, yo, man, give me my gun back.

I cannot find something.

I think you haven't.

Tim's like, nope.

Just walks right out.

On the one hand, doesn't have the balls.

On the other hand, at the White Lotus, like we hear from Fabian later when he's talking to Belinda, you have to be like so delicate with these people.

So I think he was trying to give Tim the opportunity to just like leave the gun on the counter and walk away and we can all pretend that this never happened. You know, like that kind of handling.
Well, he gave him the opportunity, but then when the opportunity wasn't taken, there's another move at that point. Hey, I need the gun back.
Or just like fess up. Go tell Fabian, go tell your boss.
Like, I'm sorry I lost the gun.

And this is the theme.

I risk Mook finding out.

That's exactly it.

Like, this is the theme.

And this is why he continues to be

such a strong candidate

for being involved in something tragic at the end.

Like, he is in such a dire street

in this stretch of the episode.

And yet, when Mook walks by

and smiles at him,

he kind of can't help but get swept up in her beauty. No, I can't blame him.
I feel the same way. She's so beautiful.
She's so adorable. Like the shift change comes and the guy replacing him is like, anything I should know? It's like, nope.
And we get it. He's invested in upward, forward mobility to impress Mook.
And so he's not going to reveal something that leads to him being fired and jeopardizes his courtship, but that's going to probably lead to somebody getting killed. Anything I should know? Yeah, the guy in room 507 stole our new gun.
Mallory, I know you related to several people inside of this episode. I did.
I'm so excited to talk to you about it. In frankly shocking fashion.
What does that mean? I can't wait to find out. Did you relate to Fabian when he said, I have antacid.
If your stomach upset, I get digestion issue when I'm nervous. I did, yeah.
I was like, my guy also thinks every podcast should be sponsored by Imodium. Yeah.
Well, so this was the only episode, I think that's a same night two episode, which we talked about last time. Yeah, they broke the format.
So we're still at dinner with Piper and the parents. Yeah.
And she tells them the Thailand plan. Poor Tim is just zonked out.
She might as well tell him, Mike, I landed on Mars last night. He would not be listening.
But our girl, Parker Posey, who's not on laparoscopal. What's pill? Laparazam? Lorazepam.

She's going to have to drink herself to sleep.

She's boozing it up.

So she's more lively than ever.

Apparently, withdrawals from lorazepam are intensive and kind of immediate.

So I don't know what's going to happen to Vicky over the next couple days. Because she was chewing those things down.

By the way, I also found out that apparently lorazepam is sweet and just dissolves under your tongue so we don't have to worry about Tim taking them dry. Oh, interesting.
They're just a sweet little candy. I'd like to apologize to Tim Rattler.
The poison fruit though. Still poisonous.
Incredible Parker Posey stuff. Best scene of the whole season,

I think, so far.

Which one?

The table scene

or back at the villa?

I mean, you combine them together.

She's just humming.

Charles Manson wrote books.

Bill Clinton wrote books.

Hillary Clinton wrote five books.

The list goes on.

That just absolutely killed me.

No, but like everything she's,

I mean, like all of her like-

She thinks they're in Taiwan.

That was a revelation.

Insane. But when Piper says, okay, I lied to you.
I'm not here for my thesis. I'm here to check out.
There's no thesis? There's no book club? She says, the reason I wanted to come here was to check it out. And I did.
And I really like it. Piper, you briefly walked through the monastery once.

What do you mean?

What do you mean you checked it out and you liked it?

Literally the equivalent of watching one Instagram reel.

Yeah, exactly.

You could end up with a completely different set of values

than the ones we gave you.

She was awesome.

Sheltered girls like you were constantly getting brainwashed and turned out. Right.
Someone needs to take Vicky's, like the Netflix documentaries away from Vicky. Yeah, absolutely.
How about look at the Catholics, organized cults and deviant sex can go hand in hand. Mike White just slinging it.
I was going to say that's a class. It sounds like Vicki should have a podcast.

Yeah.

Mike White,

son of a preacher,

but like, you know,

the Catholics, I guess,

are open season.

Great combination.

This was really like the Vicki experience

in miniature because

she is, you know,

ultimately really embarrassing

herself in multiple respects,

like revealing yet again

that she doesn't actually know

anything about her own child.

I don't know anything about her own child, that she is a practicing Buddhist, that this is something that's important to her, why it would be important to her. She is just revealing.
You want to live in Taiwan. Prejudice after prejudice, like total ignorant person.
And yet we kind of can't stop like laughing in a fit of hysterics as we watch this performance because it is such a finely tuned and perfectly calibrated bit of social commentary. It's great.
Also, yeah, I think the one extra layer of that is that I think also she's right. That's what I think is also true about Vicky here.
Not that they're in Taiwan, obviously. And not that you can't explore Buddhism or whatever, but the fact that Piper has not put enough thought into this.
Yeah, for what was the best Piper word was it guru or was it what was the other one she said it's tough crowded field oh buddhist I do feel like sometimes with these shows the actor takes like three to four episodes to really nail the character completely now she has it have you been enjoying the clip of Parker Posey from like It's Good Morning America or whatever? I saw that and she was talking about how much fun she has with the words. Harper, no, Buddhism.
Yeah. It's great.
It's great stuff. I think everyone has come all the way back around on all of the accent work on this show.
I actually sometimes find it most amusing to listen to her just with like normal words. Like the way she just said have no purpose purpose, because she's drawing it out over like 45 seconds, even though it's three words.
That's the best. Well, at the end of that whole thing, when we got back to the villa and she says, you could do everything right.
And then some moment can append everything. It doesn't realize that poor Tim's listening to that going, oh, you don't know how right you are, sister.
Well, yeah.

Because we are, I am about to go to jail

unless I shoot myself at the end of this episode.

I mean, he's going to have a tough time later in bed

when he hears what she has to say

about facing the feedback back home, you know?

She says, people are going to say we're bad parents.

And he goes, I wouldn't worry about that.

Yeah.

There's a lot of other things to worry about.

I wouldn't worry about that.

I have a same question for you guys.

Did you, obviously he's in his haze, right? He's in this cloud for so many different reasons. On the heels of the phone call, learning he's going to go to jail, the drugs, all of it.
But did you, were you expecting at all like that he would actually say, Piper, I support you. You should move abroad and live your life away from the blowback of my impending shame.
That he would actually welcome a member of his family. I was kind of expecting that a little bit.
Though, I don't, not fully because the other part of this is like, it's one more defeat where he has to like, yet again, grapple with the fact that his family is just shattering around him his legacy is shattering around something

yeah something that jason isaac said on the official podcast he was talking about how um first of all piper is his favorite child clearly is tim's favorite yeah that he that she can do no wrong that anything she wants she's like the princess she can have whatever she wants which is uh by the way what saxon accused her of earlier yep um and then also that like all of this is bullshit. He's like, she's not staying here.
Saxon's not going back to the office. Like none of, nothing is happening for them in the future as far as Tim is concerned right now.
But here's my question for you. And Rob and I did talk about this.
On a show like White Lotus where there's never consequences for the extremely rich, do you think there's a possibility that this whole thing hounding Tim just like blows over before the season's over? Good question, but no, I don't. I think that's too – they're too far down the road with it.
Like we're going to be like, oh, it turns out Kenny Nguyen was full of shit and you're off the hook now. I can't imagine they would do that.
I don't know. I just like, Mike White just like really likes to let rich people off the hook as a commentary for the fact that rich people get off the hook all the time.
So, you know. It's a good theory though.
I like it. To like watch him spin out for a week and then nothing happens.
To me it's just totally imbounds. They cut a deal and he doesn't have to do a deal.
Specifically because he doesn't have his phone. Like, that's actually part of why that feels possible.
That he doesn't have the latest update that, like, everything's fine. He's got a gun to his temple.
If Vicky hadn't opened the door, is he alive? Really good thing. And then makes it through the next couple days, finds out he's okay, and goes back to the same life of privilege and getting away with white collar crime.

Speaking of Jason Isaacs.

Yeah.

It's time to tackle episode four.

We're ready.

The penis.

We had a big debate in episode four about stunt or real.

I'm always in this.

I think they go stunt every time.

I said real. Or some sort of fluff.

You said real and Mal said real. Yeah.
Some of your deep dive research, some emails. What did you hear? We did hear from some listeners.
We heard from a lot of listeners that occasionally, apparently most men in the UK are not circumcised. So we got a lot of emails saying.
So that helps the real case. No, stunt case.
Okay. Oh, interesting.
However, Mallory is the counter move, which is Jason Isaacs is a Jewish man.

And so being circumcised to me is part of the proof that that is actually his dick.

That's all you have?

What do you mean?

A week of research?

That's the only thing?

Is that Jason Isaacs is Jewish?

That's it?

In response to that. I'm responding specifically to her point about us getting us I thought you had more stuff getting my current I have the answer so I can you guys go you guys go and I'll tell you the answer okay so the episode I just want to say really quickly I was responding to Joanna's point on circumcision I just want to say really quickly thank you for that I just want to say really quickly the amount of restraint that we have shown for the sake of content,

not asking you right away what the answer was,

it said reveal it on the pod, Bill.

We've been very patient.

Our texting has been like barren of any details.

What do you think?

I know, you're making us wait to do it here.

The interviews off of episode four are out.

And so I would say we know the answer

simply because not a single interview

has included the line.

It was a prosthetic, which everybody says when they wear a prosthetic. So it's real.
That's my deductive reasoning. What's the answer? So because they didn't mention that it was actually him, you think it's real? I think because they didn't mention that it was a prosthetic, it's real.
Any last thoughts before I tell you the answer? I'd still say it's real. Prosthetic.
Okay. Yeah.
Devastating. Jeez.
Yep. Thanks for doing that research, though, Bill.
Wow. I really appreciate you getting to the bottom of things.
What does that go big or go home quote mean, then? What is that about? It's been a prosthetic every season, right? It was prosthetic for Steve's on. Yeah, Steve's on.
And Steve Zahn, yeah, exactly. The lack of balls were the clue for me.

Yeah, you really were.

However, Vlad in this episode.

Right.

That's gotta be real.

That thing was swinging.

Yeah, that's real.

That went all around.

That was real.

That's gotta be real.

It's the whole package.

Is that, is everyone current on Shorzy season four?

Why?

Is that technically the helicoptering?

Helicoptering is a big plot in Shorzy season four.

Or do you have to be holding your dick and swinging it for it to be helicoptering? What's helicoptering? This is what I'm asking. It would look like Vlad is doing.
The lasso? Where he's just shaking it. Is that helicoptering? Or do you actually have to hold your dick? I cannot wait to see what your husband texts you about this episode.
And my question is, is next week finally going to be the episode where Mallory doesn't make hand gestures? I mean, it depends on what, you know, the show gives us to work with. We played all the hits in this episode.
We have that long Sam Rockwell story. Yep.
We had nudity in the pool on both sides. We sure did.
We had brothers kissing. Like, this show is really going for it.
I thought we were going to get another dick at the end in the Jacqueline sex scene, but we didn't. Not yet.
I was shocked.

Yeah, we can get to that.

But yeah, it seemed like they were setting up for the wide shot.

Yeah, he looked down right before he took off his pants.

And I was like, we are about to get another dick.

But alas.

Speaking of the fancies.

Condolences.

Yeah, sorry.

Sorry about you and Jason.

I know you're living the dream.

Hey, I support everybody making the choice that they think is right for them. Good for him.
So the fancy cougars were out with the Russians. Boy, were they.
One of the great things about this episode is not knowing where it was going to go. And because it's the White Lotus, your mind is racing to like all the possible terrible ways that could go.
And actually none of them went that way, but it's really exciting. It went exactly how we said from the beginning, which is that Jacqueline was going to push Valentin on Laurie and then fuck him herself.
A number of episode one predictions bore fruit here in episode five. Yeah.
What was the guy from Game of Thrones? What was his part? The Magnar Fenn. Magnar Fenn said, my parents are dead and my sister's a bitch.
That really made me laugh. Honestly.
He's really great. I'm really obsessed

with your Arnold Schwarzenegger

Russian accent.

It's just the same accent

for all countries.

Can we hear you doing

exercise with tires?

Exercise with tires?

They're all like,

oh yeah, we were dancers.

And Kate's like,

I played softball

and he's like,

I did flip tires.

Exercise with tires?

Oh, CrossFit.

Should we?

Should we dance?

Oh my God.

Jacqueline's just dying

to get out there

and strut her stuff.

She just wants to get

attention from anyone.

If I tried to dance like that,

I would drop dead.

How about Carrie Coon's dancing was great. Okay, incredible.
Like, really? Like, 10 out of 10. I would die.
I have, okay, I have multiple things about this. First of all, I think underrated greatness actually is Leslie Bibb's terrible dancing.
Oh, my God. The face.
Kate. Yeah.
Great stuff. Carrie Coon, great dancer.
There are some moves that were a little like Julia Stiles Save the Last Dance, a little like Top That Teen Witch. Yeah.
You know, a little like white girl hip hop. Yeah.
But overall. Fish hooking him in and then kicking him.
That was wonderful. Great stuff.
Great stuff. Really good scene.
Yeah. Electric.

Did you guys think when Jacqueline was looking at

the three women watching

that she was like, they know

I'm famous. It's not just that they think I'm hot and I look

great. No.
They know I'm

famous and they want

she wanted this to get back to Harrison? No, she felt

judged by them. Yeah, she was like, I'm here

and not you guys. She's like, yeah.

No, she was like, they were like looking

and laughing and stuff like that.

It was very much like Jacqueline at the retiree pool. Right.
Is the way those girls were looking at her. Look at that older lady dancing with the Russians.
Yeah, it's like, look at those old women dancing with those guys. And she's like, I'm here and you're not.
Fuck off. She just like smeared herself on Alexi and grabbed Valentin to be like, I'm hot and I deserve to be out here.
That was my interpretation of what that was. Good stuff.
Well, the Russians bought them shots and watching it the first time it's like, this is... I was thinking no, I also thought there might be something in the shots, especially when they were pressuring Kate.
Well, when Carrie Coon does the second one, then I was like, oh my God, she's going to actually like. Yeah.
But nothing. And then.
They toasted to Shia LaBeouf and they. And then the three Russian ladies came over and started shit with all the guys and they decided to go back to the villa.
Genuinely scary moment from Alexi in that stretch. That was alarming.
Kate wants to go. Yeah.
Deeply relate. I think we should just go to bed.
Time to go to bed. Mallory and I were like, that's us.
And she's lodging her objections. She's like, should we just call it a night? Like, haven't we done enough? And Jacqueline doesn't even dignify this with a response or a conversation.
Because Jacqueline's like, this is my vacation. You're just my sidekicks.
So whatever I want to have happen is what's going to happen now. Kate's a really good character because maybe I may not know a couple Kates.
Sure. They're for the fun, but not 100%.
Yeah. They're to have a great time, but not really.
Are we making sure we're getting home in a decent hour? It's in the back of their head the whole time. And they don't want to miss anything, but they're also not going to unleash.
Yeah. PJ's at the pool party.
Yeah. I mean she literally says later like we're old ladies and Jacqueline is of course appalled and horrified and that's the exact idea that she's rebelling against.
Jacqueline who is like passed out. Yeah.
Wakes herself up to be like shut the fuck up. I mean yeah she's dozing off against the pool chase.
She like barely could keep her eyes open when she was about to have, which was obviously quite disturbing. That was alarming.
Well, they go back to the villa. They sure do.
And actually hold that because it ties into what's happened on the boat. We'll go to- Quite an edited sequence cutting back and forth.
Before we go to Belinda, the Russians as a threesome, I feel like this could have gone wrong from a writing standpoint, from a casting standpoint, but I actually really enjoyed the Russians. I don't know.
Are they dangerous? Are they not? Did they commit the robbery? They probably did. Yeah.
Are they going to be in some crazy Muay Thai fight tomorrow and somebody's eyeball is going to get yanked out? Maybe. I don't know what to expect.
Well, he said it was their friend who was fighting. Yeah.
Yeah. So there's another member of the of the group still which is interesting and obviously they have this larger social circle there because of the three women come up to the table to yell at them so yeah i think vlad is really the key there because val and alexi are just a little too it's you couldn't really even for a second stop thinking that they were working them and And Vlad in some ways is the scariest.

Like he's the muscle.

I mean, they all have great muscles.

But like he was just such effective comic relief.

Yeah.

That it was impossible not to enjoy those scenes. And the odd man out in each of the trios, the fact that Vlad and Kate are like paired

was a great touch.

First of all, I want to say Alexi, I'm really disappointed because I think he promised us that snake tattoo went all the way down. He's a liar.
And he absolutely did not. Great point.
Their word is trash. False advertising.
Barely anywhere. But as you mentioned, their muscles.
I looked it up. Julian, who plays Alexi, Julian Kostov, holds over 60 medals as a professional swimmer, including a bronze medal at the Balkan Games 2007.
And then Arnas, who plays Valentin. Is that on WB? I would watch the Balkan Games.
That sounds interesting to me. And Arnas, who plays Valentin, is a boxer.
He's a boxer. Yeah.
Going to Belinda quickly. Mm-hmm.
It's been a rough Belinda season. Do you think so? Got kind of one plot.
She finally tells Fabian about Greg Gary. I loved this, actually.
The guy that's asking about me. I know him.
Big mistake. I think we've set up Fabian as some sort of a villain, correct? I think he's just like, this is, okay.
We met all those criminals on the yacht and their young girlfriends. This is the idea that this is a haven for criminal activity, people who are criminals who are escaping the repercussions.
Oh, so you think he just knows the game and he doesn't, it's almost like he doesn't want to know. He's like, yeah, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
It's interesting because I took it as, oh, he's in the Greg Gary Payment world. No, no, I think he's just like, he just doesn't want anything to be ruffled.
He's like, you might be mistaken. We shouldn't be gossiping a guest.
P.S. He's not a guest, but okay, Fabian.
Yeah. Some of the guests have colorful pasts, right? So it's just like, but then he ends it with, I think you'll survive.
I think it's like that kind of- I feel better now. That very.
Now that he thinks she'll survive. That very insidious evil where he's not like a villain villain.
He just wants everything to be calm and does not want to ruffle any feathers. That's like gossip.
Yeah. Yeah.
Let's not look too closely. He told Guy Talk last episode, like, your job is to protect the hotel.
So this is his version of that, right? Yeah. It's about the, like, when he, his greeting to the guests was the most effusive, like, this is the finest hotel in the world that we had seen through three seasons.
And we heard when he sat down with Sitela, like, this kind of thing was not encouraged in my home. This is like a haven of some sort for him that is distinct from where he came before and it struck me as like very contrary to um to last season like we have three really distinct versions of the hotel manager and last season like if we think about the response i think the shooting in the suitcase is still my favorite everyone is in Armand's shadow for sure.
But like when Lucia and Mia

penetrated the hotel

in Sicily,

it was like

this is an affront

to decency and dignity.

So Fabian is in the exact opposite.

He's like,

this is actually

a kind of haven for depravity.

Come here with your sins

and be who you are

and we will protect that.

It's nice to get different versions of that. But you think he's being set up for, what's your Fabian theory? I'm just raising a flag.
Okay. I wonder if Greg Gary, you know, he looks out for him a little bit.
I don't know. Something didn't sit right with him.
Doesn't help that this guy recently played a notorious film Nazi, right? Oh, interesting. That vibe help.
Okay. I didn't know that part.
I also thought we need some sort of bad person who works for the hotel this season. There's somebody in there.
Valentin is leading a crime into the hotel. I think we have that.
Maybe, or just maybe he likes to have fun. Could be, could be.
Maybe he's just a good butler. Let's take care of his clients.
He went in the span of mere hours, I believe,

across those two episodes from being like,

I can't leave it all to like, yeah, sure.

Not only will we take you to the club,

but we'll definitely come back and fucking your pool and in the room.

Also, wasn't he the one that did the?

Yeah, the energy healing.

He's an energy healer.

It is something I do.

I thought that Fabian also basically.

You love Valentin.

He's your guy.

He's a lot of good qualities. He's grown on me as well.
Fun hair. I thought that Fabian also basically...
You love Valentin. He's your guy.
He's a lot of good qualities. He's grown on me as well.
Fun hair. I thought that Fabian was basically acting like a pimp.
That, to me, was the much more sinister thing, right? He's just basically saying... He's taking a liking to you.
Yeah, he's kind of saying to Belinda, this rich loser who has a really hot girlfriend maybe wants to fuck you, and she's like, he wants to kill me? And Fabian is like, no, no, no. Like, yeah.
Rich, high profile guy. Go for it.
They think he killed his wife. I'll send you a link.
That was great. Please do because I'm having a hard time following.
I actually like that as like a meta commentary on this show is supposed to be standalone each, and now we're three seasons into one plot line carrying a cross.

And is it actually something that is a touch convoluted?

But I also just love when she was like, blah, blah, Greg.

And he's like, Gary?

Well, later, Belinda's guy comes to her room.

Worn shy.

Love it.

She's an iguana banner dresser and banded up having sex, which we do not see.

I would rank her plot as the least interesting out of all the plots. But on a scale of one to 10, how is there might be a murderer after me? There's a giant lizard in my- It's fine.
You could say that in lifetime any time I want. There's a giant lizard in my villa and my son won't be here tomorrow as like a pickup line.
Yeah.

As a stay the night. Fuck me tonight because my son's coming tomorrow is definitely a move.
Yeah. It's kind of a weird one, but it's a move.
I did find her stumbling, super nervous. Like, do you, this is consent.
Do you guys do that here? We just started. Very charming.
Oh, I thought it was, I think they're very sweet. I just think

I think if you're

if you're

struggling out there

maybe there's a murderer

out there here we just started. Very charming.
I think they're very sweet.

I just think if you're

struggling out there, maybe there's a murderer

after me. Will you stay the night?

Could be a move to try.

Can you at least cuddle? Let's go

to the boat. Great.

Finally.

Just brothers being brothers.

Here's a little secret, Lockie.

They just want to be used.

Some life advice

from Saxon. Some life advice that

Thank you. That was great.
She likes to see their little heart pounding out of their chest. She's a riot.
She's great. I'm a fresh breeze, baby.
Yep. Mere hours before he's going to smooch his brother.
I would say his brother smooched him. He didn't break the kiss.
He seemed very confused. Wait, you're jumping ahead.
Okay. With the Chloe piece.
Yeah. The Chloe piece, because we like to take little pieces that we can take maybe for the final episode when shit goes down.
When I was modeling, all the girls who were romantic ended up broke or brokenhearted, dot, dot, dot, or worse. What's worse? So what does that mean? Another death.
So what does she know? Because she's like, I feel like Gary killed his wife. She mentioned that last episode.
He could kill me. But that line was about Chelsea.

She was like, you're romantic.

Every model that I knew was romantic wound up broke or brokenhearted or dead. I'm just trying to piece together her puzzle of she met this guy on Dubai Tinder.

She knows he might have killed his wife.

That's in play. She worked in a business where people ended up dead.
And Greg Gary used to have sex with her a lot. Three times a day.
Now he's a fucking monk. Well, I think this works yet again on both levels.
It's like another death harbinger for Chelsea. We've had one, at least one every single episode.
But also, Chelsea who we love. We get the amazing, he's like my child.
He's 50. He's 50.
He's like baby Yoda. It's like he's 50.
But the Chelsea responding to broken, brokenhearted with what's worse, that actually does tell us something about her. What's worse than being broke? Like, she is now accustomed to a certain lifestyle, right? So losing Rick is losing that lifestyle, and that is not something that she wants to court.
That's not my take on Chelsea at all. You think she's materialistic? I don't think of her that way.
That's why it struck me, because it's like even Chelsea. I thought she was saying— A character who we think of as kind of like separate from that.
Yeah I didn't take the money thing either. I thought it was more like.

That was like her identity was being with Rick.

I think that we had.

Well, broke or broken hearted or worse.

And she was like.

What's worse?

What's worse than being broken hearted?

Sure.

There's that.

But like, I think it's interesting that Chelsea feels really separate from that.

Like she's pure.

She's driven by love and connection.

And yet, like when we get all of the villators, she's the one who's like, we should always live like this. Like even Chelsea has been corrupted by tasting and connection.
And yet, like, when we get all of the Villa tours, she's the one who's like,

we should always live like this.

Like, even Chelsea has been corrupted

by tasting the lifestyle.

I think that's definitely there.

I think it's true that-

Which band calls her hot tooth lady.

Yeah.

I think it's true that everyone

in White Lotus is susceptible to that.

I just think,

I really do think that Chelsea's motivation

is like this hippie soul connection.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

I'm not saying that's her motivation.

I'm saying that, like,

even somebody who's not motivated by that

is swept up in it at a certain point.

Thank you. this hippie soul connection.
For sure. I'm not saying that's her motivation.
I'm saying that like even somebody who's not motivated by that is swept up in it at a certain point. Well, Saxon gives us it's better to go for what you want in life and get rejected than have the shot and not take it.
Yeah. Which is a little similar to the Wayne Gretzky.
I was going to say yeah, it's a Gretzky. What's that one? Very sporty.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That's a sports quote.
Sure is. And I knew it.
Just wanted everyone to know. And then Lockie says, this is when they're paired off two and two.
What if this life is just a test to see if we can become better people? That's Buddhism. And Saxon goes, what? No.
No. He's just glorified by that.
Favorite moment. That was great.
That's the sort of my understanding.

Please do email me if I get Buddhism wrong. But the idea of Buddhism

is every life you purify yourself

towards nirvana. So the idea is

each time, sort of like

quantum leap, you're trying to be a better,

each time you're trying to be a better person.

On paper, probably the

best sales job for a religion.

Just keep living your life and trying to whittle away until you get better at it. So you just keep coming back.
Yeah. Give it a go.
I was like, I just want to come back as a cat once. I think I have one life.
That's it. Just one.
One life for Mel. Here's what I thought was like the most there's a lot of telling three.
And which one are you on? But I think you just become like a plant. Which one are you on? That sounds kind of nice.
I feel like I'm on the second one. I feel like I'm also on my second.
Yeah. One more to go.
One more. That's it.
Trying to make the best out of this one. One day I'm going to take you down.
Yeah. Is what Lachlan says to Saxon.
Yeah. And there's something in their dynamic that is just sort of like, he is attracted to his brother.
I think we've known that since episode one in its own way, but also like hates his brother. Do you know? Like that's in the mix.
This idea of like, I want to be you. I want to have sex with you possibly.
And also it's a very White Lotus sort of like Jackie Shauna thing and also just like I hate you you're constantly tormenting me at the same time you know yeah and that like very shortly after that Saxon's response because that was like the nominally about the beer right who was oh I need you to like pace yourself let them get messy. I'm a senior, bro.
Let them get all sloppy. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, Lockie immediately takes the pill from Chloe, and Saxon is horrified, and you have one beat where you think, well, it is technically his job as the older brother to be protecting him, make sure he's safe.
But really, there are two things in the mix there. One, Lockie is just not listening to the...
He's not following through on the plan that Saxon

just said. But more broadly then,

Saxon just has to confront time and time again across

this episode, like, Lockheed

is his own person. He operates outside

of Saxon's control.

And not only does he operate outside

of his control, he

is preparing to conquer Saxon.

Like, to turn this around on him

completely, to be the one who is in control of his situation in a way that Saxon is not prepared for. Do you have siblings? No.
Okay. I don't.
I was going to ask a creepy question about it. I don't know any brother combo that would even go within 2% of this.
No. That's why this felt...
I'll just do this now. This felt like a whiff unrealistic to me.
But this is Mike White's White Lotus. Just the whole thing.
Yeah. It's just...
I don't know where this is going. But I did like quotes like, Saxon doesn't do drugs.
I am the drug. Woo.
I love third person. Saxon was there running out of ways to make him a complete douche.
And they were like, third person could work. Big dog on the space cat.
Space cat is the name of the boat, but he, of course, is the big dog. What did you find? How much did it cost? 160 K a week to charter the space cat.
Well, we get a drunk drugs montage. We get all the naked Russians in the pool with the fancies.
We get the brothers dancing with Chelsea and Chloe. It's starting to feel mating ritualist I wrote down.
There's clothes, we're underwater in the pool. Just spinning out of control sort of thing.
Carrie Coon goes top of us. It really seemed like she was going to take on two guys in a scene in a room.
That did not happen. Instead she wanted to tell them what a badass lawyer she is.
That was amazing. I don't know if they love that.
And then fireworks. They were not loving it.
The brothers are getting a whiff of something. Yeah.
Yeah, she said... Oh, when she's talking to the Russians, I did get worried like we were going to a dark place for a second.
Like her and the two guys. Yeah.
It's like, oh man. But it was fine.
She went to bed. Went to scratch her ass while Jacqueline was fucking her dude.
Before she went to scratch her ass and snore a little bit. The dance.
She was like feeling herself so much. I know.
It was very sad. It really sucks.
Jacqueline sucks. She does.
And then we have the late night boat ride. It felt like there's a swimming disaster for a second.
Yeah. Jumping off the dam.
Like, oh my God, did somebody hit their head? That doesn't happen. Chelsea's talking about bad things happening to her.
Chloe's ready to have a foursome. Yeah.
Should we all just fuck? And then we have a little kiss contest. The brother's kiss.
So what's the ramifications of this going to be? To do the thing where the next day we don't remember it happened? Is this where the night ends? That's my question. Oh.
I mean, didn't seem like it was over, right? I think that Lockie, it was Saxon rubbing his hands in his eyes. He's bleary eyed.
He's confused. He's like, what's happening? Lack of consent.
Yeah. What is happening? The girls are laughing, but Saxon looked genuinely disturbed by what was unfolding.
Is that because he's like, wait, this is not okay? Or is that because he's like, what am I feeling? But the single most striking shot in the entire episode to me is Lockie's face after that. Because he's just like experiencing a moment of not only desire, but like power.
He feels proud. Yeah, he's like, I took the thing I want.
You've been telling me to and I did. And it was really fucked up and weird.
I would like to ask you guys where this falls. We'll keep it just to HBO Sunday nights on your HBO Sunday night incest power rankings.
Oh my God. I mean, freaking Jamie and Cersei in the top spot.
Doggy style. This has to be one.
That's number one. Where would you put this compared to like...
I think that's one, two, and three. Well, I mean...
At least two. What about Jimmy and guess the 1300s were different, though.
Yeah, sure. It's true.
Jimmy and his mom, Boardwalk, that's tough to match. This is the research that I was doing this last week.
Googling HBO incest moments. I didn't have to Google any of it.
Octavia and Octavian on Rome. That's a great one.
Obviously, the list of Thrones and— Did they do anything on Curb? The list of Thrones and House of the Dragon alone, we could get dozens deep. Obviously, Daemon and Rhaenyra.
This doesn't even really crack the top five. It doesn't even crack the top ten.
It was a kiss that lasted long enough to make me uncomfortable, but it wasn't like... They weren't sucking face for like 20 seconds.
But Loki goes back in for the longest. It was just long enough to be weird.
I usually hate these exercises, but I will say this. If the genders are switched in this scene, this is like one of the most horrific things.
If a girl was like rubbing her eyes and drugged out of her mind and there were two guys on the couch laughing and sort of like cheering it on and stuff like that, that is horrifying. This is horrifying.
Like it's like and and i like that i don't like it but i like that a character like saxon a character schwarzenegger is great a character i hate i hate this guy they're putting him in this extremely vulnerable place in a way that like makes me really invested in what happens next for him even like he got peer pressured into doing drugs like he didn't want to do the drugs. He did.
We have everything. We had the moment earlier in the season where Tim was like, I don't do drugs.
And Saxon's like, me neither. And Piper's like, dude, you crush Adderall all the time.
And he's like, just to do work, just to be good at my job. We're seeing what's happening with Tim.
These men say they don't do this thing, and then they become swept up in a very alarming way in something that they're quite susceptible to. So there was just a lot of like stuff in the episode where Saxon and not a character we had any empathy before previously is like in this deeply vulnerable place.
I thought in terms of where we cut off and like that point about not knowing what comes next, these are not incest examples. To be clear, these are not incest examples.
Coming up these are not incest examples coming up next but the because we don't know like do they end up sleeping together does something happen i think they're so fucked up that ends there was a little bit of a like itu mama tambien or like challengers aspect to it right where you're just like again remove the incest from it in theory, that sexual situation is supposed to be about somebody else. And then those two friends or figures end up being the ones who gravitate toward each other.
Here's my main question, because I actually have no doubt in my mind that some upsetting combination of people are about to have sex on this boat. Schwarzenegger posted a great thing on Twitter where it's like him and Sam DiBolo who plays Lachlan.
It's just the two of them. He's like, what could happen? What bad could happen on a boat? The question.
Actually, my question right now is Chelsea involves because I would like Chelsea to not be involved. You know what I mean? So it could be one of those White Lotus things where there's just an immense amount of regret nine hours later because of the decisions that are about to happen.
I would like no one to be involved. I would clearly not like brothers to have sex on a boat or whatever.
Yeah, let's go to bed. Hey guys, let's sit in.
Kate was right. Kate is always not.
Maybe not about the election. Not about the election.
Tomorrow's the new day. Got a big movie tie fight tomorrow.
But I think that Chelsea calling Rick and him not picking up and then Rick calling Chelsea and her not picking up. That shot is so good when, like, it's the phone.
Yeah, the phone a big Muay Thai fight tomorrow. But I think that like Chelsea, Chelsea calling Rick and him not picking up

and then Rick calling Chelsea and her not picking up.

That shot is so good when like it's the phone

and then like Chloe's legs in the air and stuff like that.

But like, is Chelsea going to do something

she regrets on this boat?

I don't think so ultimately

because at the end of the day,

Chelsea, when she said,

when they had the funny but alarming classic White Lotus conversation about, well, you think he'd kill you? No. Oh, Gary would kill me.
What did Chelsea say? She's like, I just actually would feel really bad. Yeah.
Well, that's where the stakes are high. Yeah.
And but she feels really different. And a reason that draws us to her from Jacqueline, where Jacqueline's like, I feel betrayed.
So now I will hurt this person, Harrison. Well, don't we need a moral- But that's not Chelsea.
We need a moral compass in every season, right? It feels like Chelsea's the moral compass. Season one, it was the Daddario character.
Mike White thinks it's- Was it? No. No, definitely not.
Who was it? It was probably Quinn. Mike White thinks it's Belinda this season.
That's what he says. No, it wasn't.
I like I liked Adario. She was the one who went back to her husband,

who she didn't love.

I felt bad for her.

Well, sure.

I felt bad for her until she went back to Shane.

But she knew right from wrong for most of the episodes

and then kind of begrudgingly ended up in this life

that she didn't want to begin with.

But then I lose my-

That's going to be Chelsea.

Maybe.

Wow.

Maybe.

Yeah.

They're all complex.

Let's take a break because we've got to hit Sam Rockwell.

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All right. Our guy Sam Rockwell, who moved to Thailand because he had things for Asian girls and became insatiable.

And then question, desire.

What is desire?

I could fuck a million women and never be satisfied.

Maybe what I want is to be one of those Asian girls.

And we just go and we go and we go.

And we go.

And we keep going.

Yep.

I am her and I am fucking me

guys would reel the shit

out of me

I'd hire an Asian girl

I'd look in her eyes

and say I am her

I'm fucking me

but then he ends

the whole monologue

and he goes

hey we all have

our Achilles heels

yep

and Goggins is like

still miss that pussy man

wild yeah incredible stuff from Goggins so is this it for Rockwell or do we see him again no I think he's coming back definitely back gives him the bag with the gun yeah has to play the director needs him to come back to play a role yeah so what do you think play a role means well so when he was yeah when he was talking to Sitala back when he was originally starting his con, he's like, I got a friend who's a director in Bangkok. To gain access to her husband, Jim Hollinger, who he believes is his dad, but probably is his dad.
And he mentions how he got into Buddhism. One thing I was thinking about with this show is people assuming different identities.
Yeah. It's a weird season.
It's a weird thing about this season. 100%.
You have Greg Gary. You have this guy talking about it.
You have Rick who's about to go one way or the other. You have Lockie trying to figure out his identity.
Yeah, absolutely. You have Jason Isaacs whose identity is about to end.
Wow. Well, no, no.
But he lost his identity because his identity was, I'm a big swinging dick. I'm the provider.
I'm the dad. I'm a leader at the club.
I'm a pillar of the community. I cover this lineage, and now I'm nothing.
I'm poor and broke. That was so sad about him trying to compel Saxon to turn over his phone by being like, we can figure out how to provide something more and having to confront that he didn't actually feel like he had that.
that but that book we talked about this last week but that book that piper is reading and that comes back into play in this in this episode so memorably like identity is that we hear is yeah identity is a prison well so zion no man has spared this prison yeah zion's coming in episode six i would assume yeah and his son yep so what's and then we see him in one of those therapy sessions at the beginning of the first episode. She said, just come on in.
That's what she said. She said, just come straight to the villa.
Yeah. And she is an overnight guest.
Yeah. But how long is the flight from Maui to Thailand? A thousand hours? I don't know.
That just seems like that would be the longest flight ever.

Take them a while to get there, I guess.

Well, no, actually.

Is there any way to Thailand that's not 20 hours?

This is one of the many reasons I'll never find out.

One day and one hour, according to Google.

How do you think Sam Rockwell and our guy Rick,

what do you think the whole background of those two was?

They used to party together.

They used to party wild together.

Where do you think they lived?

Oh, no home base.

Citizens of the world.

Just bounce around like Texas, California.

Well, where did they start?

Can't go to Australia.

Had to leave the States.

Like the West and the South.

Either way around.

Yeah.

A couple of different countries.

Yeah.

Oh, no question.

Yeah.

But it felt like they hadn't seen each other for a few years. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. So what do you think Rick's W-2 form was for the last 10 years? This and that.
This and that. Okay.
Yeah. So Sam Rockwell's Californian.
And I was just curious. Wal was just curious walton goggins seven boy anything else you want to say about sam rockwell anything mike white was trying to do with that monologue that i might have missed shock and dismiss and like not dismay but like shock people shock people with two brothers kissing shock people with this monologue um from sam rockwell and i'm still trying to figure out I love this show.
I'm still trying to figure out what it is Mike White is trying to do with this. Like, he's given interviews about it, but like this idea that he wants to make queer sex transgressive and shocking.
I still don't fully understand what his motivation is behind it, but that is something that he wants. He wants to just like, what do you call it? Borderline edgelord mentality is what he called it about himself.

And so I just think that's,

he's provoking.

Well, don't you think part of that

ties in with how he came up

with this whole idea

when he was in like a fever dream in Thailand?

Yeah, but it's been,

maybe this whole season

is like just a crazy fever dream.

I think the,

well, I'm sure he'll talk about it

more after the season

or maybe not,

but like the fever dream part of it

feels like all of the particular trappings of how to interrogate the core themes that he's been interested in since day one. So I think that's actually what's interesting to me about the Rick and Frank conversation moving forward is like, what impact does what he just heard have on Rick? You know, the nature of desire in their circumstances is very different.
But Rick is also a character who's being driven by desire, right? Like vengeance is a type of desire. The desire to avenge your family, to enact an exact revenge on the person you think has wronged you.
Does what he hear, coupled with the conversations he's had with Chelsea, coupled with the sessions that he had with Amrita,

balance him and pull him back when he's staring down the barrel of the gun, looking into Jim Hollinger's eyes? And also this question of identity and who am I? Am I the son of a vague do-gooder, like this sort of thing? Am I the son of Jim Hollinger, something that he might discover when he comes face to face with him?

Or can I choose to be something else? Which is what Amrita was like suggesting to him is like, you can break this karmic cycle. You don't have to do this right now.
And we think Scott Glenn is his dad. I definitely think that's true.
Then at the end, Tim's writing a suicide note with a gun on the desk did you think he was going to do it? I actually did I don't know it's like it's episode 5 and it's I mean this is what we talked about last week like exactly this like that he would attempt it or start to attempt it but something would halt him which is you know exactly what happened you haven like yourself, Tim. Oh, really? He hasn't? Thanks for checking in.
He's been a fucking maniac for three days. But it gives us that moment earlier in the season of him being driven to that point of supreme desperation, feeling like he had no other path forward.
And then now three episodes to potentially make a different decision. But also that gun is in that room.
I think it's also really interesting that like he, both he and Chelsea have this like, Chelsea has a speech to Chloe where she's like, Rick is always walking around like a sad sack, like everything, you know, she's like, bad things have happened to me. You don't see me walking around complaining about it.
First of all, we don't know anything about Chelsea's life at all. Right.
So like what did happen to her? And also she's throwing herself a little bit of a pity party in that moment while she's saying, you don't see me complaining at all. She's doing complaining right now.
And then we see Tim here at the end of the episode be like, I've had all this pressure on me my whole life. There's never been a minute where I haven't been expected to, you know, achieve.
From day one. Yeah, from day one.
And it's just sort of like, my God, this lack of self-awareness running around. But he is in some ways right.
Grandfather was a governor in North Carolina. Yeah, exactly.
He's like from this like proud line of Carolinian greats. And it was interesting to hear Vicky describe him as a Boy Scout last episode to Piper.
You know, you don't know how lucky you are. And then to hear him say to Piper this episode, like I literally was an altar boy.

And to have that.

Before he sings a beautiful hymn.

Before he sings beautifully.

And then we get to hear that hymn again in the end credits. Yeah, in the closing, yeah.

But yeah, like that, the characters are also different.

But the fact that they are all grappling with that question of who am I?

Who do I, who has the world made me feel I have to be?

And then are any of them actually able to rebel against that?

You left out one question.

Thank you. question of who am I who do I who has the world made me feel I have to be and then are any of them actually able to rebel against that you left out one question please god tell me what to do what should I do who am I what should I do yeah that gun being in that room still makes me really nervous like I do not because you're like a monkey's gonna come in well I'm like is Saxon gonna shoot Lockie like is Saxon gonna find that gun and be like what did you do to me like monkey's going to come in.
Well, I'm like, is Saxon going to shoot Lockie? Like, is Saxon going to find that gun and be like, what did you do to me? Like, that feels completely possible. So, Poison Smoothie out.
Poison Smoothie's still in. The Poison Smoothie remains in until the moment the final credits rolls.
Poison Smoothie was great. But like, you know, we are only five episodes in.
Five episodes is a lot, but mere five hours ago, we were like, Lockie, this beautiful innocent in the center of this family tug of war.

Dating into the Apatow family in real life.

This guy has it all together.

Well, this is the theme of a lot of the visions we've seen in the opening credits of vulnerable animals actually becoming predators, which I think is interesting.

And then the predator becoming the prey.

So if you think about like Saxon in his sort of like alpha predator mode at the beginning of the season and then like he's just stumbling around bleary-eyed saying, don't take advantage of me inside of this episode. I think that's really interesting and upsetting.
And I am very nervous. Can I run one theory by you that I think is interesting? We're at the point of the pod.
We're ready for it. Yeah.
Are you ready? Yeah. Okay.
It's a shootout. Yeah.
Let's say it's not monkeys. Yeah.
Okay. Monkeys fighting over poison smoothies.
What if Belinda gets in touch with Interpol? I don't know how, but like calls the authorities on Greg Gary. Yeah.
Tim thinks the authorities are there for him. The feds are there for him.
Rick thinks the authorities are there for him because of whatever happens in Bangkok. So police calls at least three different rooms think the police

is there for them.

Yeah.

Right.

And Fabian...

And we have like

a Tarantino shootout.

Yeah.

And Fabian tells

Hollinger's guards

to shoot the Interpol agents

because he's like,

protect the hotel.

Protect the hotel.

That actually,

to me,

like one thing

that I didn't think

totally tracked

in this episode,

Belinda going to Fabian for help, sure. But like but you can go call the cops on your own, right? She doesn't actually need him to do that for her, but delaying her maybe doing that until we're closer to the events of the family.
It took her 18 hours to fucking Google him. It might take her five weeks to call the cops.
Yeah, but I think that supports Joe's theory because if she delays and it takes her a day or two to work up the courage to do that or she does it next episode and it takes a day and another day or two for them to show up. My theory is a theory that's floating around, but I like this idea that the authorities show up.
Take credit for it. I didn't know.
I was really impressed. I like the theory that the authorities show up and there's so many different people who could be like, oh shit, the feds are here.
Not to mention, the Russians could be there too. All the expats on the yacht.
The Russians could be like, oh no, the cops are here because we smashed and grabbed the boutique. Well, here's what we have just for next episode.
The gun. What's going to happen to it? Is it going to stay in the room? Yes.
Is the night on the boat still going? Did it end? What are people going to see each other next day? We know we have some sort of Muay Thai fight event that people are going to go to. That the fancies are going to.
We know that we might have a bunch of the hotel going to. That Guy Talk and Mook are going to.
So a bunch of stuff there. So we think Guy Talk will spot the robbers there then.
We know the fancies.

There's going to be some sort of what happened last night.

No question.

Or we could have the valentine leaving her room and the other one sees it.

We could be in secret.

Oh.

Cat fight mode.

Oh.

What is it?

Triangle of trust?

Trust triangle's done.

It's been demolished.

How is Larry going to find out?

Will she see the text? She's going to finish scratching her ass. Yeah.
See him leave in the morning? Yeah. See him leave.
We have the brothers hashing out whatever that'll happen with them. Yeah.
We have Belinda versus Greg Gary. And then we're in Bangkok and the magic moment with Rick and Scott Glenn and potentially Sam Rockwell we're waiting for Scott Glenn we also have potentially Sam Rockwell coming back we have the Vicky and Tim going to the monastery the monastery with Piper they've told her they would go the next day oh I didn't even think about that one so we have seven things in the air right now but John Tim on the heels of praying to God for guidance is about to head into a monastery like what impact might that have on on him? I'm really excited about this.
We talked about this earlier, this idea of like, is Rick open to some sort of spiritual awakening? Is Tim open to some sort of spiritual awakening? Because the therapist was getting to him. Yeah.
But like, is Tim Ratliff the last person on our list? Well, actually Saxon's my last, but he was like the second to last person on my list of someone who might have a spiritual awakening at the White Lotus. Is he about to have some sort of moment? So Saxon's your number one least redeemable White Lotus character? No.
Who's your number one then? Greg Gary, who did a murder. Yeah, yeah.
Tanya was pretty annoying though. I don't know.
Can I make the case for Greg Garrett? No, I'm kidding. Who's your least redeemable White Lotus character? Well, so if Saxon got violated on the boat, that's a way of...
I'm feeling for him right now. Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, both of them were completely fucked up, right? My guess is they're going to wake up in the morning and do the, what happened last night? Maybe Lockie will remember a little more. I think Saxon doesn't even remember what happened.
He might pretend he doesn't because he's ashamed, but he will remember. There has to be, there has to be fallout.
He's got to remember. But also Chelsea and Chloe are right there.
With the twirling evil mustache with her strand of hair. To your point about the predator and the prey, the fact that it's not just that Lockie became the predator, it's that Saxon handed him all the tools and has to confront that now.
And Lockie has become the person that Saxon wanted him to be. But Saxon is the one who ended up suffering.
He, he needed 12 cocktails, and he needed ecstasy, and Molly, and nine other things. I don't know if it's going to last.
My guess is Lockheed is going to be completely mortified the next day. I don't think so.
I think this is an awakening for him. Really? Yeah.
I just think he's on drugs. Grim.
Malorie. Quite grim.
Not like incest is my thing every single day of the week, but like sexual predation is my thing. I think he's crazy fucked up.
I'm going for what I want. Like people are here to use me.
Hopefully not. Or for me to use them.
Like hopefully not. Hopefully he's still like, you know what? I could go to just NC State after all.
I still could make that choice. My thing on this is like, if they go further than this, if we get a challengers or a need to mama tambien sort of situation, there's no coming.
That is with you for the rest of your life. Because those two things that you mentioned are not brothers.
Right. They're transgressive in their own right, but it's not two brothers.
Very close friends. Yeah.
Very close friends. Wow.
So what are you most excited about for the last episode

or next episode before we go?

I'm most excited for

Rick and Sam Rockwell in Bangkok

doing whatever they're going to do.

Magic men.

Let's do magic men.

But I'm also excited for Fight Night.

I think those are my two.

Fight Night's a really good call.

I think I love a con personally.

So whatever that's going to be.

And I love Scott Glenn.

Yeah, I am really excited about that too. I think I'm most invested in the Ratliff storyline at this point.
What happens on the boat? That's what you want to know. You're just dying for a monastery tour.
I, I, I tell you guys, we step back and I tell the two of you, we will see Parker Posey's Victoria Ratliff enter a monastery in Phuket, Thailand next week. That sounds amazing.
That sounds great. And you say, I'm prepared for the best hour of TV of my life.
Are we going to get to hear her say Phuket? What's it called? She will for sure say something. She'll have five things for that.
Then she would have to know they were in Thailand in order to say that.

It's going to be a good one.

Can't wait.

Prestige TV podcast, Mallory Joanne.

A pleasure as always. Thanks to everybody behind the scenes.

Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast every week on Spotify.

And what is it? Ringer Dash TV is our YouTube channel.

I hope you guys are wrong

about the foursome.

I hope we're done. I hope everyone's asleep.

We will find out next week.

Wrap it up.

On the White Lotus Recap Pod.