Squid Game S2, Episodes 1-3: Let the Games Begin…Again

hello welcome back to the prestige tv podcast feed i'm joanna robinson i am rob mahoney we are here today to talk to you about squid game season two but not all of it just part of it We're here to talk to you about episodes Game Season 2 but not all of it, just part of it we're here to talk to you about Episodes 1 2 and 3 of Squid Game Season 2 so this is I guess your blanket spoiler warning for the episode, if you haven't watched up through Episode 3 of Season 2 of Squid Game, we're about to talk about it so go watch it or if you don't care about spoilers and just want to hear our takes anyway that's that's your risk that you took entering i'm flattered but also maybe go watch it but go watch it um so yeah we're just gonna you know this is this is the net the good old-fashioned netflix binge uh so we're gonna cover episodes one through three on this show and then coming back in the new year we're gonna cover cover the back half of the season uh four five six and seven and um i did watch the entire uh season because it was our original overly ambitious plan to try to do this all for the holiday and we ran out of time um but i will not be spoiling anything beyond episode three um i do have like sort of one big picture take that i want to get in but it has nothing to do with any like plot or spoilers or anything like that rob you know i i protect your your spoiler and i i appreciate it i would never do that to you and you're protected in this case because as you said it really was our ambition that got the better of us it really was i would say a classic holiday tradition of i'm going back for the second plate and i just put way too much on it uh so we're gonna we're gonna off into 2025. Yeah, here we are putting things in the Tupperware and we'll take it out of the fridge in January.
So let me start by asking you, Rob, I know you and I haven't talked really very much about your experience this season one. So I was curious.
I think I did a pod with Mallory about it. It was like when I first started the ringer.
And it was like, Squid Game dropped. It was the biggest thing in the world.
And Bill's like, hey, Mallory, Mal and Joe, can you podcast about this? And we like mainlined the episodes and did our very best. So but I didn't get to talk to you about it.
We were not podcasting together back then. So what was your experience back in 2021 with season one? And then why do you think it hit the way that it did? Yeah, I mean, I think like many people, it was word of mouth.
It was getting swept up in the phenomenon of it. It was, you know, as we said, this is a binge drop, but at least this is a binge show that feels like a binge show.
It's super propulsive. It makes you want to keep going back.
It's one that I think if you have the time, you probably could easily knock out over a night or two. You could get pulled into the story just that easily.
And I think so long as you have the stomach for a certain kind of darkness, Squid Game is really hard not to like. It is well made.
It's super well acted. And I think most importantly, it's just very well conceived, not just in terms of the world and all the little details that we love as far as the set design and the costuming and everything they built within the Squid Game itself, but the actual games, I think, beg you to sit on your couch and argue with your friends how you would perform at them to the point that they actually made a literal game show, which is just the darkest shit I've ever heard in my life.
Bleak. Quite bleak.
There's also... Was I talking to you about the Netflix themed like Ulogs that you can do? No.
Okay. How vast an array of options do they have? I don't know.
I've never taken advantage. But when I typed Squid Game into the search bar the other day, the Squid Game like Ulog thing came up.
So essentially like a wide, it's like over an hour hour maybe an hour and a half okay wide shot of a fireplace that looks like it could be in one of the sort of like gamekeeper rooms inside of the squid game campus uh with like the creepy little doll on the mantle and like a couple other thing and it just like sort of faintly plays the theme song the haunting theme song while the while the fire crackles. Who is that for? I bet you.
I bet you it's popular. It's not for me, but I bet you it's popular.
And I know that they have them themed for a bunch of different shows as well. Is there any Netflix show where you would throw up a Yule log from? Oh, great.
I mean, I would think, the plethora of Christmas offerings that Netflix already has, like, can't we get a Lindsay Lohan in there somewhere? Like, that seems like it's right there. But when you say the word squid game Yule log, I am imagining a pile of corpses that are set on fire.
Like, that's the world that we're coming from. Right.
And that would be more in keeping. But as this was the case with sort of the competition game, I feel like a lot of people took the incorrect lesson from Squid Game.
And yet here we are. Here we are.
So on a scale of 1 to 10, where were you sitting with Squid Game Season 1 in terms of how much you enjoyed it? I would say like a solid 7.5. It felt a little bit snacky, digestible, like I'm really enjoying it while it's going on.
And then I get to the bottom of the bag of chips. And it's like, all right, I have not thought about that since I finished that bag of chips.
So that was so 2021. It was this huge hit for Netflix.
And like, it endured like, it might feel like empty calories to you. But to the of the world it was uh you know people were dressing up for halloween and costumes and then it won six emmys uh and any like the emmys were like a year a whole entire year afterwards so it endured in the minds of at least the television academy enough to give them six emmys um to this day i think the most popular or at least close to the most popular netflix show ever so but a question you and i both had because i would put my enjoyment probably closer to an eight but no higher yeah we're in the ballpark yeah and so i think you and i had like similar takeaways from season one and you and i had very similar i know this opinions about season two where we were like I'm not sure we need a season two of Swim Game we're unsure if this needs to exist this message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card is a no-fee credit card that gives you daily cash back every day that's three percent back at Apple and two percent back on every purchase made with Apple Card using Apple Pay.
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Exc returns exclusions apply visit the website for full terms and conditions so uh going into this what did you feel like the show needed to do in order to sort of like prove that it deserved to exist and how is it three episodes in how is that going for you so i think what it probably needed to do was show to us, not you and I personally, but literally anyone watching this show, that there's actually more to explore here. And by that, I don't just mean the plot of let's take down the game from the inside or let's get to the VIPs responsible, just like the human dynamics within the game.
Can you show us a different side of that that isn't just a rehashing of what we saw in season one? Can you refresh the contestants enough and their dynamics enough that this is going to feel new and different? I actually think they've done a pretty good job of that, to be honest, despite my skepticism. This absolutely felt like a show and a season that did not need to continue.
In part, I will say, I don't know what your mileage on this was, Joe, but the ending of season one, the final twist as to who the engineer of the initial Squid Game was, was just, it took a lot of the air out of the whole thing for me. Very hat on a hat kind of stuff.
So I was, I would say, ending at a down point from season one, wondering why we need to go back. And they do need to spend some time articulating why we literally and how we literally are going to get back into this world.
But as far as like how they refresh the game, I think changing the voting mechanism to where they get the contestants get to vote at the end of every round, whether they would like to go home with a share of the money, a.k.a. the deal or no deal, I think is a nice little wrinkle in this thing, Joe.
I think that's really giving us a lot to chew on in terms of the democracy first part of Squid Game. Right, and this is the stated reason for the second season.
Basically, they made the first season. They weren't really sure that they wanted to make a second season of Squid Game.
Netflix was sure that they wanted a second season of Squid Game. The reason to make a second season is the big bag of money that's left outside.
Correct. You open the motel door and it's covering the bed.
The giant clear piggy bank that's in the sky hanging above over all of this, for sure. But like, I think so the stated reason here is to examine this idea of like democracy was it a bad idea uh which is uh certainly a question we might be asking ourselves here in 2024 majority rule is that really the way we want to go i guess is is sort of a question that we were asking here I actually find so I was very skeptical about the season I went in um and I actually really quite enjoyed this season and I told I told you that before you had started watching and you were like oh that's good to hear because like we were both a little skeptical about it actually really I had a good time with it like I feel similarly like I would put it at an eight.
And then the only

reason I would maybe knock it down to a 7.5 is having finished it all, what I will say is a seven episode season. This really feels like part one, they have a planned third season and that's it.
This really feels like a split second season to me. If they had marketed this as Squid Game season two part one or

2A or whatever. And then Squid Game

colon for good coming in

2027 there you go there you go um uh fewer good songs in i've heard that about act two but we'll do our best um that that was my only it felt like it didn't feel like this season didn't need to exist it felt like maybe they didn't have enough story to stretch over two more seasons which is the second season and third season so and then also in addition to this idea of um democracy wasn't a bad idea um that is hanging over this um i i find myself really drawn so uh gihun, who is Li Jung-jae's character, the main character that we have in season one, is come back into the game in season two. And it does take two episodes to get us back into the game.
But I was watching with a friend of mine and she's like, oh, I got it. I get it.
Katniss needs to go back into the court. It is that line.
But you have to like figure out a good reason to why on earth would he ever go back? And so this idea of infiltrating from the inside. And to me, it kind of makes sense that it would take like two episodes to get us there.
Rewatching season one, I didn't rewatch all of it, but rewatching it, we're in the game 30 minutes into episode one. We are not messing about.
And so the fact that it takes two whole episodes to get us into here i think is right because i think if if he were immediately if gi-hun were immediately back into the game we'd be like what like absolutely not this is this is just for expediency's sake so for sure especially because correct correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like within the world of the show, like years have passed.

It's three years between the beginning of season one and when we enter the game in season two.

Because this friend is like, you've been at MIA for three years. so for me the question is around and I think it goes goes into the scene we have in the park where

the recruiter is like fucking with all the desperate people and the food and all of that sort of stuff the scratcher and the food and all of that um this goes into like gyuhana as a character and re-watching season one uh episode one i was so struck by what a loser asshole goofball he is when we meet him at the beginning of the first season i think i had kind of forgotten to what degree he was because maybe because i was just thinking a lot about what lee jungjai did in the acolyte and i was just thinking of him as like sort of this like heroic he projects nobility like as an actor they really have to scum him up a little bit to play gihun yeah and Yeah. And so I think that I had forgotten how far he came in season one.

And so I think watching season two, what's on the line here is like when you go back into this world, which is cutthroat and the worst of humanity. And when all the people seemingly working for the game, and we'll talk about the recruiter a bit in a second but when all of those people are convinced that there's no good left in humanity what will that do to our protagonist who with all of his hard-earned character development what will that do to him to put him back in that world and that's really because squid game is the most successful when it is in addition to the big picture ideas it has when it's focusing in on these interpersonal interactions these little like survivor-esque alliances that form these little tribes that form inside of the players and stuff like that and their individual little stories um like the most popular or i think the most popular episode from season one that people talk about is the Marble episode, which just is a lot of like deep down character connection moments.
And so to bring it back to him and like, can he stay the hero inside of a situation this murky and mucky? You know what I mean? Is something that's on my mind. Well, especially because that character is coming into season two, as you said, from such a different place, from a development perspective, and from a perspective of having, at least so far, a lot of the answers, right? Like, he knows how the games are played, at least the red light, green light right out of the gate.
We'll see how they kind of evolve over the course of the season. But like, he knows what to do and what not to do and you can you can see a little bit of gihun die when he reveals that information and what people do with it is they point at him and they say are you a plant are you trying to sabotage us are you trying to take all the money for yourself or maybe the worst one oh you know the answer so we can all win the game together so we will be totally fine despite you know i think some people need to run the math who are competing on this show because it is not your advancing that is making the piggy bank blow up.
It is how many people around you are dying. And so the number of contestants that so far are willing to say, I don't care who dies around me.
I want to continue to try to earn my way out of my debt is the kind of dispiriting thing that you could see testing Gi-Hoon's patience the course of this show. And I think also that idea, the idea of like one more game, just one more game, just one more round.
We can leave anytime. These new wrinkles of voting every time we can decide after every game, we just one more and then, and then we'll go sort of thing.
And this idea of like the difference in the rules that you get to keep some of the money this time versus in the original version they did a vote like this in the first episode um but it was that if they all voted to leave the money that came down into the piggy bank would go to the families of the people who had died in the game no one was going to get a single cent unless you're the sole survivor essentially and so um so the differences are that idea that like you can stay and get, not everyone has to die and you can get some of the money. And also the fact that you're slapping on the costume what your vote was.
That's a good touch. A remain or a leave.
And so you get this visual representation of the factions um hanging around in the in the dorm here uh very very spooky uh in all of this um i want to ask you about so gong gong you who is um a like superstar in korea shout out train to bazon uh hive have you seen train to bazon i actually have not seen train to bison such mahoney uh bullshit you will love it i gotta get on that it's so good um but he played the recruiter in season one um and everyone was like oh my god what is i mean i'm gonna make a bad comp here because i am obviously not like super well versed in korea world but i'm just sort of like what is korean george clooney doing here in this like in this like tiny role and so a lot of people are wondering like if he was gonna have a bigger role this season uh he does in a limited sense in in that he's here but he has a healthy role so what did you think of the time spent with him did that feel like advancing to the story or did you, were you like tick tock? Where's my green jumpsuit? Why aren't I back in the game yet? Sort of. I know.
I actually really enjoyed this time spent. I think this kind of couples together with the conversation we're having about like how soon is too soon to get back in the game and how much do you have to justify and how much track do you have to lay? Like season one, it makes sense.
You want to get people to the chaos and the drama and the stakes as soon as possible. Season two, not only do we have to justify getting back, but you have this sort of like, how do you get back to a place you didn't know how to get to in the first place? And that's how you get this like one if by land, two if by sea situation.
Like we're searching for the island, we're checking the subways for the recruiter specifically. But like, this is frankly the kind of star power that i just don't think a series like this can leave on the table it it had that kind of like uh i can't remember what the sequencing of the gi joe movies was but where like channing tatum was contractually obligated to return and it was like what are you gonna do not put channing tatum in your movie um like if you have the ability to put gong you in something you should do it and i say that not just because i haven't even seen trade to some but like goblin is a huge fucking deal like this guy's a massive k-drama star among many many other things and you can see that and i think it's what makes his character like that recruiter character so compelling is it is so cold and so warm at the same time like it is an amazing presentation of undeniable charisma

and also just complete sociopath.

And there's just, yeah, there's just like a star,

the sharp suit and all of that,

but there's just like a star quality to him

that makes it so believable

that he would be able to just like

seduce desperate people in the subway

into playing a game where he gets to slap their face.

You're just sort of like, well, yeah.

Have you looked at him in his suit?

Of course. But I also think what's interesting because in parallel right we get as as we're getting gihun's uh search and um also jinho's search search um out on the waters um we're meeting this new uh female character is it i know will i don't know how you yeah no well basically um we're meeting her and when i was when i was i i got totally duped by this because i was watching it's like okay here's our new young i was like really are they gonna do this again and then set it up and then they just pulled the rug out and she's actually uh one of the i'm i wrote down.
I don't know if they have a technical title, but she's under a pink jumpsuit. And so the question is for Gong Yoo and Noel, these characters, we get to understand outside of the creepy VIPs and the front man.
What is the psychology of people who help run the squid game? Why would you run a squid game? What has brought you here? How desperate are you? And also what do you have to believe in? And the answer for Gong Yoo for certain is absolute nihilism in terms of like, I've seen what humanity has to offer and I am not interested. And to the point of this, like, gruesome charade inside of the park that he does with people there.
How is that all sitting with you with this young woman whom we meet and with the recruiter and the way his story plays out? I do think that's sort of the backgrounding, right? Like the whole conversation we get with the recruiter about basically his role within the system of being effectively a lapdog, like a sickum agent, something to go and fetch like new contestants for the show. Like I think paralleling that with Noel's story is really smart, right? As you said, we are set up hook, line and sinker to see her as a contestant, right? You see the marks on her wrist.
You hear about her situation with, it sounds like her baby was separated from her when she defected from North Korea. She's like sleeping in her car.
She is so desperate. And when she finally gets the card, it's just assumed that it is to be a contestant.
But the fact that she's being recruited to be one of these squid guards, I think, shines a different light on the recruiter story too, right? He was someone who was recruited to be a guard, who was then turned into a recruiter, who was then turned into a lapdog. The desperation on both sides of that particular aisle, I think it's all feeding into the story about democracy and voting too.
It's like, if you are desperate, you're easier to manipulate. And if you're going to tell a story about how you can manipulate people into certain circumstances, I think you start by showing how desperate you can be in a variety of ways.
Yeah. I think what's interesting too, like when we get Noelle's story at the, at the sort of like, I don't know, every day is Mardi Gras park that she works in.
Yeah. Questionable theming, but it seemed to work.
And look, I have to say this. My life ended the day that the little girl in the strawberry cap was snubbed for her second lollipop by the replacement pink bunny imposter i have not recovered joe uh that was very very tough um what about when she saw them with their heads off and then they're all like The quickness with which they tried to put the heads back on, I thought was wonderful.

It was really good.

But there's the girl with the strawberry hat, her father is also so clearly being set up

to be in a position to be desperate and go into the game.

And he does, in fact, go into the game.

And so I was curious.

I was like, oh, that's interesting.

They'll go in knowing each other, or least she knows him yeah as as fellow contestants and then we find out that yes that's not the case that she's on the other side of this game from this guy that she seems to care about his daughter so there's that um well i would say overall this season just has a lot more existing relationships yeah going in right i mean do you want to run them down i mean we've got mother and son i think played to delightful and fascinating effect especially because the mother is a little bit older and so when the games get more physically taxing i'm very curious to see how all that plays out you've got gihun with an existing friend who's happened upon him in the game you have uh the rapper, and all of his throngs of fans who want to take selfies with him. And a crypto fraudster.
And all of, at least not all the people, some of the people he defrauded through his YouTube channel by pushing, I guess doing like a Hawk Tua situation. How would you describe it, Jo? Sure, sure.
Why not? Plus his pregnant girlfriend or ex-girlfriend, it unclear sort of what they're statched but like we we see him at the beginning she tries to call him she's at the sort of like uh ob gn ob gyn like clinic or whatever and then we later see her in the red light green light game holding her belly in a way that i'm like got it got it okay suggestive Okay. Suggestive belly holding.
Got it. A hundred percent.
So yeah. So all of that connective tissue is really interesting to me because like, of course, Gi-hun had a friend in the first, that was like a whole part of the first story.
But even more connective tissue between people in the seconds. I was like, I wrote down in my notes.
I was like, how small is this world? Like, like when he got when he was sort of racing to meet the people that he had hired to try to track down the recruiter on the subway. And he gets pulled over from the cops by the cops.
The friend that I was watching was like, oh, we know what's going to happen. I was like, what do you mean? She's like, well, Jun Ho is going to be the cop.
I was like, I was like, no, it's a big it's a big town it's a big city it's like how big is seoul korea like this is a big place and then he got out of the car i was like okay no no this is the show you're watching the show you're watching is like there's well it's like everyone kind of knows each other in a way you know your brother is the front man like you know you're gonna like the coin like this is the story we're telling is that coincidences will abound uh no matter what that's a big difference but there's a lot of like very intentional paralleling going on like giuna is a friend in the game um he's got the same number as he did last time we're playing red light green light the same way we did uh in season one episode one we're voting whether to stay or go which is how that episode ended with one deciding vote going uh taking us out of the game that's a whole thing that i had to try to remember i was like oh yeah they went out of the game and then back into the game bleak and then um there's some cartoonishly villainous bad guys like once again than Thanos fulfilling our role. Even more cartoonish, I would say.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, how did you feel about the crucifix

filled with various drugs

that could be smuggled into the game?

I just think it's a bittersweet symphony, Joe,

this life, you know, when you really boil it down.

Did your mind go to Cruel Intentions? A hundred percent. mean it's it's less powdery in this case and more pill form so you know the means of production are a little bit different but same idea just in case you weren't a Cruel Intentions fan I should have known better Rob but just in case you weren't I did want to like link this reference out to you in our notes today and I was like well I'm so sorry but I was trying to find the clip where they like pull it off of her in oh yeah at the end very dramatically cocaine goes everywhere um instead i found an interview of sarah michelle gellar talking about the crucifix and she's like first of all that's a lot of cocaine it's a lot secondly anyway uh well similarly in this like that's a lot of drugs that you're smuggling into the squid game and also i'm a little shocked that a giant honking crucifix got through squid game security when no one else really has any jewelry or accessories of any kind yeah maybe you're allowed no i was gonna say maybe one personal item we were allowed to think keep things of religious significance but i was like squid game squid Game doesn't care about your religious beliefs at all.
Oh, definitely not. But Joe, I would be derelict of duty if I did not ask you, as a scholar in the Marvel arts, how you feel about Thanos being his representative name in this show, this rapper, and in particular, earning the name Thanos because his raps were going to wipe out half of mankind.
This is controversial because as I understand it, there is some controversy in casting this particular character because the actor is like, it's like we put Machine Gun Kelly, we do put Machine Gun Kelly in movies, but it's like we put a musician or a performer or whatever of a slightly dubious representation rep into the project.

I don't know the full story of this guy at all. I think he's great in this role.
He's very good. He's wonderful.
I would not say, weirdly enough that you say that, that he is a very good rapper. But look, I want to think that maybe we're safe at the uh like 20 plus minute mark of the prestige tv podcast from the from the k-pop fans out there like i will say the weakest part of many guy k-pop groups is often the guy who's supposed to be the rapper so it does not surprise me that this guy would come in with thanos level rhymes and i'm like i don't know i really't know.
But is my opinion of that being colored by the fact that he tries to make a pass at one of the other contestants and I would say has negative aura overall. Like absolutely nothing going on.
The Riz deficit is tough, is tough. And then how immediately he's not just like, this is fun, people are dying.
He is actively shoving people over in the red light game. So this is like, because we had a cartoonishly villainous sort of gangster figure in season one.
This is a whole new level, I think, of like maniacal villainy. Because like, he doesn't even have to warm up to this.
This is the first game the first day and this is what he's up to this is what he thinks is hilarious on based on the various sweet tarts that he has uh in his crucifix that he's taking um uh okay but so a big twist i guess at the end of episode three and why i like we were trying to figure out whether or not we want to stop at the end of episode four at the end of episode three I think stopping here at the end of episode three at the end of the vote when we get the revelation um and I don't know about you I don't know if you do this uh the way that I do it but I think you do because you watch a lot of stuff the way that I do we're following you know player number one to the front of the room on the back of his head. I was like, there's literally only one person this can be like, if you're going to show me a face, it has to be a face I know.
So it has to be, you know, the front man. Twist.
So he he cast the deciding vote here at the end. And they you know they and i am delighted by this actually in that i really find this character um you know i find him very alluring i am very interested to have him here i'm very interested in sort of like what he can do uh to mess stuff up from the inside all that sort of stuff what what is his connection to gihun gonna be like how is that all gonna go i'm very interested in that my question for gihun here is yes we have we have him on the line are you having been duped by a player 001 in season one Are you going to walk into it all over again? Are you going to ask any questions of Player 001 here in Season 2? The difference is we, the audience, now know from the jump that this is a plan.
Yes. But Gi-Hoon, do you know that they're running the same con on you here in Season two? You know, it's been three years.
Maybe he, like many people, has forgotten what happened in season one of Squid Game. Yeah, absolutely.
So he needs to rush a refresher YouTube video, I think. I think that would really help.
It would really, really help. Yeah.
So my question about the same, same, same, different, same of this, specifically like episode three is, do you feel like that is a retread to just give us the sort of member berries familiarity of you?

You remember you love season one of Squid Game. Here's more.
It's the same. Or do you feel like the show is actually trying to say something about sort of these cyclical spaces that we find ourselves in? I do think it's trying to say something.
I think this does feel like a season that's in conversation with its own existence in a lot of ways in like a Jurassic World kind of sense. Like it's in the text that you've got to make it bigger and badder or in this case, like deeper and darker into human nature.
And look, if you're going to construct the season effectively so far around this, like, are you going to take the bread or are you going to take the lottery ticket sort of dynamic? The bad news, Joe, is that historically, as a species, we take the lottery ticket over and over and over. And it doesn't matter how many times you tell people not to do it.
It doesn't matter if you have someone in the room who's saying, I have made this choice before. I chose wrong.
And I suggest you take the bread. We will still take the lottery ticket.
And so I think the repetition is part of the structure. This time is going to be different for me.
For you specifically, you're going to get out just fine. It's going to work out for me.
I'll be fine. There has never been a question yeah yeah um when when they're doing the voting section and he gets up to he like has had enough and he's gonna like reveal himself to everyone i was like i was shaking my eyes like this is not gonna go the way you think don't do it all don't do it keep your trap shut and this is this is something of like this is this is something to be concerned about with Gi-hun.
Because for all of his resources, it was astonishing. He was running this massive search, throwing all the money at this massive search.
Has bought a hotel, a derelict hotel, as far as we can tell. Oh, it's derelict.
No sweethearts have been in that hotel for quite some time. It's not the derelict I was questioning.
It's that he bought the whole motel, right? Oh, yeah. He owns the motel.
He's got security. He's basically hired the crime network that he owed money to to now be his crime network to search for the recruiter.
Absolutely. So he's throwing all his money in it, and then he takes us into the room with all the money on the bed, and it's barely a dent.
I know. Barely a tiniest of a dent in the fortune that he amassed.
I actually thought that was really helpful because earlier in the season, you see him give the big bag of money. Yeah.
In the process of like, here's everything you need. I was like, is this it? Is it the last of his? Is he spending the last of his fortune to do this? No.
And you see every other character respond to the bag of money being like oh my god this is a life-changing amount and it's like yeah yeah man this doesn't even cover like the footboard this episode is brought to you by the home depot it's starting to look like spring and spring starts with savings at the home depot there are savings for every project whether you're starting with a queen slate with convenient cordless power, like a new pressure washer or leaf blower, or starting to love the yard again with colorful flowers and fresh mulch. Start your spring with early savings at the Home Depot.
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The other day I was golfing with some of the guys. They're like, hey, you want anything? I was like, I'm an adult.
I got stuff to do tonight. I'm not doing one of these like semi-retired deals, 18 holes and see how it goes.
Luckily, Athletic Brewing Company had reached out to me. They sent me a bunch of stuff, including the Irish Red or the Run Wild IPA.
And my personal favorite, Upside Dawn. A nice little golden.

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Business Taxes. We're stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes.
This is my bill? Now Business Taxes is a TurboTax small business expert who does your taxes for you and offers year-round advice at no additional cost so you can keep more money in your business now this is taxes into it turbo tax get an expert now on turbo tax.com slash business only available with turbo tax live full service um yeah so he like, he has amassed these resources. He found his man.
He got a special tooth with a transmitter in it, but the transmitter didn't make it in with him. Come on.
That's never going to work. He's giving speeches to the room that is not what I would do, having only watched a few seasons of Survivor.
I feel like i know better than he does like how this was all gonna go um and so what we have to remind ourselves is this is not any kind of like strategic genius that we're following this is just a guy who really kind of lucked himself i mean like he had true grit at the end of it all in season one, but in many ways- I would say he's wily. Very wily, but in many ways lucked himself into winning the game in season one.
And so he's not always going to make the smart choice because that's not who this character ever was when we met him. No.
But the new dimension, I think, that we're seeing in Gi-Hhun's journey and like post season one development is yes he is wily yes he did get lucky he's also now just like so hardened by the experience that he's playing full rounds of straight six russian roulette um and so like there is a determination i think to obviously take down the machine from the inside but also just like maybe a kind of a fuck it steeliness that he did not have before and how that plays out and

how maybe that wears down as he gets more and more exasperated with everyone around

him.

That's something I want to chart.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting.

I have a question for you about Russian roulette.

Yeah.

I haven't played it.

Okay.

You didn't in all your years in Vietnam, you didn't play Russian Roulette? No, I'm generally against. It was not my understanding in any version of Russian Roulette that you spin the barrel of the gun between rounds.
I thought the whole point was that. Oh, yeah.
The whole point is that you keep going because then the odds get, the stakes get and higher right isn't that how you play Russian roulette well I mean look there's many variations often I do think they spin the what's what's the term it's not the barrel though it's the this is where our lack of gun knowledge is really gonna it's really gonna hurt but chamber the cylinder the cylinder that's the one um i do think you spin the cylinder you stare down the barrel of the gun yeah you're right sometimes you see you know they'll put more bullets in as they go usually one at a time and not inverting one out of six to five out of six like we see in this episode uh but yeah i think spinning is is part of the process like you want to refresh the odds okay i thought it was like that the okay well this is this uh exposes to you that i do know the rules of red light green light but i do not know the rules of russian roulette because i i thought the whole point was that your odds get shittier and shittier the further you play the game but i think you're you're over indexing on efficiency of time and under indexing on like the mental torment that is russian roulette but as we're talking rules here and the various games involved have you ever played rock paper scissors minus one um no and did you glean what the rules are by watching it or yeah okay can you explain them to me so based on my admittedly crude and absorbed understanding of the rules of rock paper scissors minus one you're basically playing you choose two at once yeah so you might scissors one hand rock other hand and then they do minus one and you take one of them back and so rather regular rock paper scissors is pure luck so the game minus one also has like a mind fuck element because you see other person has. And in this case, one guy accidentally does double rocks because he's so freaked out.
And gets spared ultimately. But don't pick double rock.
That would be my advice for minus one. And he takes the paper.
His friend takes his. He was officiated his wedding.
We were told. It's like a brother to him.
Takes the paper away so that he loses. that he sacrifices himself i understood that last act i think i didn't quite grok this idea that it's like yeah then it's a mind fuck because you don't know you have to gamble on which one you think they're going to take away exactly how that relates to what you're going to take away and i'm sure if you played enough times there's like only so many maneuvers that make sense at the end of the day.
But like, that's that's fun.

We should play.

That sounds fascinating. Maybe less Russian roulette involved.
How about no Russian roulette involved? OK, that's fair. Since we since I don't even know the names of the parts of guns and I'll just play rock, paper, scissors.
I thought that was really good. and again, like Gong Yoo's

absolute, the

recruiter's absolute

sicko behavior in that sequence was, I thought, phenomenal. He responds to shooting a man in the head, I would say, as if he was suddenly wondering, like, where did I put my keys? And then he goes to the motel and does not bother to wipe any of the splatter of blood off of him as he continues along on this journey.
And this idea that like what I'm curious to know how you think about this idea of like the rules matter. Humanity is devoid of any redemptive quality, according to the recru recruiter but nonetheless the rules matter of any game he enters enough that he will blow his own head off because he agreed to this game how do you how do you feel about that like what does that tell you about what the show is trying to say about people well i think this i think this goes back to a lot of the sort of desperation elements of a lot of the contestants, right? It's like, if you opt into something, then you are not allowed to complain about it.
Then you are not allowed to regret it. Then you are signing up to be used by the system or used by these people in power, signed up to be part of the squid game or whatever it is.
Like, it is really hammered home in these episodes. This is voluntary.
You have the option to sign out. We're going to give you a hundred percent of the information but theoretically you can opt out at this time or that time or you can vote to leave but it's like there are there are real decisions and there are fake decisions and i think throughout the squid game it's not quite like a golden handcuffs scenario but it's the the possibility even the possibility of getting golden handcuffs is so enticing to so many different people who are competing in these games that they just can't even bring it within themselves to vote to leave with not an insignificant amount of money in their pocket but not as much as they would want um do you have any are there any characters that you've met so far of the new characters this season i did think it was interesting that like you know almost all of the characters that we knew in season one died so who's gonna populate season two in a way that is like feels maybe familiar to us and what's interesting in re-watching season one episode one both the sort of the gangster who winds up dying in rock paper scissors and his friend who's in the game are characters in the first half of episode one season one so they got promoted, well, one of them got promoted to series regular here in

in who's in the game are characters in the first half of episode one, season one. So they got like promoted.
Well, one of them got promoted to like series regular here in, in season two. So I thought that was like an interesting use of resources, but in terms of like new characters we meet, is there anyone you are particularly invested in so far? So it's, it's a weird kind of collision of ideas for me.
Cause I think on a character basis, Noel is the most interesting new character to me. Someone who said we got duped into thinking would be a contestant is not.
So there's all of that at play. There is, as you alluded to, this dynamic between her and this girl's father who's in the game, and she's kind of clocking him and how she feels about that and reacts to that over the course of the season I want to see.
But ultimately, I would say going from season one to season two, there's a little bit of the mystique of the game taken away, right? Like we've seen enough of the backstage at this point that I'm not super interested in what's behind the curtain because we already kind of know what's there or what's not there. And so that character alone, I would say, is giving me a reason to be a little

bit more invested in that part of the story. It's giving me a little bit more of a balance overall

in not just what is she going to, this character that we know is so desperate and has been at the

end of her rope, like what is she going to do? What matters to her? Where are her lines as a

person? But also how does she fit into this machine that I think I already know pretty well,

but I'm sure there will be twists and turns in that too. I think for that reason, the front

Thank you. but also how does she fit into this machine that I think I already know pretty well, but I'm sure there will be twists and turns in that too.
I think for that reason, the front man is really intriguing to me. And I did text you over the weekend that I was calling this actor, Lee Byung-hun, like a Korean Mads Mikkelsen.
There's something oddly just sort of taut and smooth about his face in the same way that Mads's face is and I find him extremely compelling um the way that that character the front man um both shot his brother but also it seems sort of let his brother go so that drama so who is that so he's not completely lost to the world in terms of devoid of humanity. He's also a previous, we understand, a previous winner of the game.
So like, and we learn more about his backstory and how he had a sick wife and all this sort of stuff like that. So like, who is he and what is he? What is his presence in the game? How far is he going to go with his presence in the game? And that whole element is really, really intriguing to me.
And I think in general, what was true of season one and is true here is I'm really interested to see the bonds that form between these characters. I don't know if we're headed, what exactly we're headed for in terms of where all of this is going obviously i have seen more than you have but i have not seen the full story that the show wants to tell so i don't know where all we're going but like i can't help myself but be invested once again in these players be they flawed or not like the example of uh young sick who is the gambler and his mother this is a fairly reprehensible character this guy who has gotten not only himself but his mom like sort of in in trouble and then his mother this very like self-sacrificial uh character yeah who's there we should say basically to try to pay off her son's right so it's like he is incredibly flawed she as far as we know other than like being confused skeptical about a transgender participant like is you know a virtuous person and i'm like invested in both of them how is she gonna do but how is he gonna do who has the opportunity to like improve as a person who has the opportunity to be corrupted as a person what what will you're right we've seen the game before so obviously we're not like we can't do beat for beat season one but we we are nonetheless in this pot of boiling water like what is this boiling water going to do to these various archetypes is still interesting to me even though i wasn't sure it would be so yeah i think the overall structure just has more replayability than i gave it credit for yeah yeah and some of that again is like the difference in if you were to ask me if i were to design the architecture for a squid game season two i would say entirely new cast i would not attempt to do like bring you back i would do anthology, I would say entirely new cast.
I would not attempt to do like bring Gu-Hoon back. I would do anthology.
I would bring, I would do obviously different dynamics, but like, look, I'm never going to be mad about Lee Jung-jae being in anything. But that character kind of had his story and I would try to move on to a different one.
But the value in bringing him back is that now you get to look at all of these games as a season two viewer does in a lot of ways, right? Like we know the ins and outs, he knows the ins and outs, and it's changing the shape of how you play them over the course of the show. That alone, I think, makes everything feel a little different and a little fresher.
And then, yeah, all of these characters who we have no idea what kinds of alliances they'll form, we have no idea who will come to hate who. I do have a sneaking suspicion that the guy who owes 10 billion won and brags about how important you have to be to get a loan that big he will probably not be on a huge arcing journey this season i don't think but i i would love to be surprised there's a character very similar to that guy in train to busan and i was just sort of like oh i i see i see.
I see this archetype and where we're going to go with you. Or maybe not.
I could be surprised. Who's to say? I do enjoy this part of the season, though.
They run through as soon as everyone gets to the game, how much debt everyone is in, really putting people in their place. And you get a sense of these characters sizing each sizing each other up, like scolding each other, like looking down at each other, trying to justify why their circumstances are not as bad as somebody else's.
Right, right. And as soon as the first game happens, like people are just covered in blood and cowering between the bunks, right? Like the leveling happens so quickly in Squid Game in a way that I think resets the stage.
Now we start to see now that the first challenge is out of the way. Like, who are these people really? What are they made of? Like, how do they kind of reacclimate to a world where, yeah, that guy's a rapper, but maybe I also saw him push three people to their death.
I sure did. I sure did see that, Rob.
I mean, he didn't try to hide it. His arms were frozen out.
Like, it's right there. guys it's tough um I think we did we do it I think we did it we're in the great game now and so there's a lot to cover in four five six and seven so we'll be back in the new year to cover that um we're also on this feed we've got other stuff we've done we've done best moment of the year podcast that we did.
We are, despite all evidence of the contrary, still covering the agency. We are indeed.
There's a lot going on, and we have a lot of plans for the new year that we're really excited about. So I hope you guys enjoy the rest of Squid Game.
Happy holidays. Fire up that Squid Game, you log, if you so desire and and we'll see you soon rob anything else you want to say to folks before we go just because i don't think we mentioned up top if you do have any thoughts about squid game or any of the other shows we're covering email us at prestige tv at spotify.com i guess like you know how you think you're doing at the games who you think will be on the biggest narrative journey this season i'm i'm open to all theories how do you think you would do inside of a squid game rob mahoney pretty terribly i'm out at red light green light personally that's what i think happens to me the the balance like like what are you worried about is gonna happen you know or i'm just like twitchy and i would just like freak out uh you know as soon as the bullets start flying well here's the thing for both of us like the plan that they pull together at red light green light is hide behind the bigger people joe we are tall people tall people at the front is not a good structure for us um nor nor frankly i would say is it really good strategy for anybody else because like these people are getting taken down with like a sniper rifle from someone who was in the north korean military not only do they fall backwards but like you're telling me if you're standing right behind someone you couldn't get a a bullet through them into you oh yeah i'm not messing with that um all right well uh so we would be out in round one but tell us i'm voting leave i'm voting leave as possible.
In fact, I'm not even signing the waiver. I'm just getting back on the boat.
I am also not signing the waiver, but tell us how far you would go. What game do you think would knock you out? Prestigetv at Spotify.com.
And thanks so much to Justin Sales for his work trying to to juggle all these prestige TV episodes with us.

Thanks to Donnie Beach and for filling in for Kai.

Donnie,

great to have you here on the prestige feed and we'll see you all soon.

Bye.