Squid Game S2, Episodes 1-3: Let the Games Begin…Again

Speaker 1 Hello, welcome back to the Press Siege TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

Speaker 2 I am Rob Mahoney.

Speaker 1 We are here today to talk to you about Squid Game season two, but not all of it, just part of it. We're here to talk to you about episodes one, two, and three of Squid Gay season two.

Speaker 1 So this is, I guess, your blanket spoiler warning for the episode. If you haven't watched up through episode three of season two of Squid Game, we're about to talk about it.

Speaker 1 So go watch it. Or if you don't care about spoilers and just want to hear our takes anyway,

Speaker 1 that's your risk that you took entering.

Speaker 2 I'm flattered, but also maybe go watch it.

Speaker 1 But go watch it.

Speaker 1 So yeah, we're just going to, you know, this is this is the good old-fashioned Netflix binge.

Speaker 1 So we're going to cover episodes one one through three on this show. And then coming back in the new year, we're going to cover the back half of the season, four, five, six, and seven.

Speaker 1 And I did watch the entire season because it was our original overly ambitious plan to try to do this all for the holiday. And we ran out of time.

Speaker 1 But I will not be spoiling anything beyond episode three.

Speaker 1 I do have like sort of one big picture take that I want to get in, but it has nothing to do with any like plot or spoilers or anything like that. Rob, you know, I protect your spoiler.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it. I would never do that to you.

Speaker 2 And you're protected in this case, because as you said, it really was our ambition that got the better of us.

Speaker 2 It really was, I would say, a classic holiday tradition of I'm going back for the second plate and I just put way too much on it.

Speaker 2 So we're going to dish some off into 2025. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Here we are putting things in the Tupperware and we'll take it out of the fridge in January.

Speaker 1 So let me start by asking you, Rob,

Speaker 1 I know you and I haven't talked really very much about your experience this season one. So I was curious, I think I did a pod with Mallory about it.
This is like when I first started The Ringer.

Speaker 1 And it was like, Squid Game dropped. It was the biggest thing in the world.
And Bill's like, hey, Mallory, Mal and Joe, can you podcast about this?

Speaker 1 And we like mainlined the episodes and did our very best. So, but I didn't get to talk to you about it.
We were not podcasting together back then.

Speaker 1 So what was your experience back in 2021 with season one? And then like, why do you think it hit the way that it did?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I think like many people, it was word of mouth. It was getting swept up in the phenomenon of it.

Speaker 2 It was, you know, as we said, this is a binge drop, but at least this is a binge show that feels like a binge show. It's super propulsive.
It makes you want to keep going back.

Speaker 2 It's one that I think if you have the time, you probably could easily knock out over a night or two. Like you could get pulled into the story just that easily.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think if so long as you have the stomach for a certain kind of darkness, Squid Game is really hard not to like. Like it is well made.
It's super well acted.

Speaker 2 And I think most importantly, it's just very well conceived, not just in terms of the world and all the little details that we love as far as, you know, the set design and the costuming and everything they built within the Squid game itself, but the actual games, I think, beg you to sit on your couch and argue with your friends like how you would perform at them to the point that they actually made a literal game show, which is just the darkest shit I've ever heard in my life.

Speaker 1 Bleak. Quite bleak.
There's also, was I talking to you about the Netflix-themed like you logs that you can do?

Speaker 2 No. Okay.

Speaker 2 How vast an array of options do they have?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I've never taken advantage.
But when I typed Squid Game into the search bar the other day, the Squid Game like Eurolog thing came up.

Speaker 1 So essentially like a wide, it's like over an hour, maybe an hour and a half wide shot of a fireplace that looks like it could be in one of the sort of like Gamekeeper rooms inside of the Squid Game campus

Speaker 1 with like the creepy little doll on the mantle and like a couple other things. And it just like sort of faintly plays the theme song, the haunting theme song while the fire crackles.

Speaker 2 Who is that for?

Speaker 1 I bet you

Speaker 1 I bet you it's popular. I did not, it's not for me, but I bet you it's popular.
And I know that they have them themed for like a bunch of different shows as well.

Speaker 1 Is there any Netflix show where you would throw up a eulogue from?

Speaker 2 Oh, great. I mean, I would think, obviously, the plethora of Christmas offerings that Netflix already has.
Like, can't we get get a Lindsay Lohan in there somewhere?

Speaker 2 Like, let's, that seems like it's right there. But when, when you say the word squid game Yule log, I am imagining a pile of corpses that are set on fire.

Speaker 2 Like, that's the world that we're coming from.

Speaker 1 Right. And, and, and that would be more in keeping, but as, as is was the case with sort of the, the competition game, I feel like a lot of people took the incorrect lesson from Squid Game.
And yes,

Speaker 1 here we are. Here we are.
So, um, I, so on, like, on a scale of one to 10, where were you sitting with squid game season one, like, in terms of how much you enjoyed it?

Speaker 2 I would say like a solid like seven and a half. Um, it felt a little bit snacky, digestible.
Like, I'm really enjoying it while it's going on.

Speaker 2 And then I get to the bottom of the bag of chips and it's like, all right, I have not thought about that since I finished that bag of chips.

Speaker 1 So that was, so 2021, um, it was this huge hit for Netflix and like, it enjoyed like it might feel like empty calories to you, but to the rest of the world, it was, uh, you know, people were dressing up for Halloween and Squid costumes, and then it won six Emmys.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the Emmys were like a year, a whole entire year afterwards. So it endured in the minds of at least the Television Academy enough to give them six Emmys.

Speaker 1 To this day, I think the most popular, or at least close to the most popular Netflix show ever.

Speaker 1 So, but a question you and I both had, because I would put my enjoyment probably closer to an eight, but no higher.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're in the ballpark.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I think you and I had like similar takeaways from season one and you and i had very similar i know this opinions about season two where we were like i'm not sure we need a season two swim game we're unsure if this needs to exist

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Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 going into this.

Speaker 1 What did you feel like the show needed to do in order to sort of like prove that it deserved to exist? And how is it three episodes in? How is that going for you?

Speaker 2 So, I think what it probably needed to do was show to us, not you and I personally, but literally anyone watching this show, that there's actually more to explore here.

Speaker 2 And by that, I don't just mean the plot of let's take down the game from the inside or let's get to the VIPs responsible, just like the human dynamics within the game.

Speaker 2 Can you show us a different side of that that isn't just a rehashing of what we saw in season one?

Speaker 2 Can you refresh the contestants enough and their dynamics enough that this is going to feel new and different?

Speaker 2 I actually think they've done a pretty good job of that, to be honest, despite my skepticism.

Speaker 2 This, this absolutely felt like a show and a season that did not need to continue.

Speaker 2 In part, I will say, I don't know how what your mileage on this was, Joe, but the ending of season one, the like final twist as to who the engineer of the initial squid game was, was just, it took a lot of the air out of the whole thing for me.

Speaker 2 Very like hat on a hat kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 So I was, I would say, ending at a a down point from season one, wondering why we need to go back.

Speaker 2 And they do need to spend some time articulating why we literally and how we literally are going to get back into this world.

Speaker 2 But as far as like how they refresh the game, I think changing the voting mechanism to where they get the contestants get to vote at the end of every round whether they would like to go home with a share of the money, aka the deal or no deal, I think is a nice little wrinkle in this thing, Joe.

Speaker 2 I think that is, that's really giving us a lot to chew on in terms of the democracy first part of Squid Game.

Speaker 1 Right. And this is the stated reason for the second season.
Basically, like they made, they made the first season,

Speaker 1 they weren't really sure that they wanted to make a second season of Squid Game. Netflix was sure that they wanted a second season of Squid Game.

Speaker 2 The reason to make a second season is the big bag of money that's left outside. You know,

Speaker 2 you open the motel door and it's covering the bed.

Speaker 1 The giant,

Speaker 1 yeah, clear piggy bank that's in the sky hanging above over all of this, like for sure. But like, I think, so the stated reason here is to examine this idea of like

Speaker 1 democracy, was it a bad idea?

Speaker 1 Which is certainly a question we might be asking ourselves here in 2024. Majority rule, is that really the way we want to go? I guess is sort of a question that we're asking here.

Speaker 1 I actually find, so I was very skeptical about the season. I went in

Speaker 1 and I actually really quite enjoyed this season. And I told you that before you had started watching and you were like, oh, that's good to hear.
Cause like we were both a little skeptical about it.

Speaker 1 I actually really, I had a good time with it. Like I feel similarly like I would put it at an eight, maybe, and then the only reason I would maybe knock it down to like a 7.5

Speaker 1 is having finished it all. What I will say is a seven episode season.
This really feels like...

Speaker 1 Part one. They have a planned third season, then that's it.
This really feels like a split second season to me. If they had marketed this as Squid Game Season 2, part one or 2A or whatever.

Speaker 2 And then Squid Game colon for good coming in 2027. There you go.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 Fewer good songs in Squid Game Colon for Good.

Speaker 2 I've heard that about Act 2.

Speaker 1 But we'll do our best.

Speaker 1 That was my only... It felt like...

Speaker 1 It didn't feel like this season didn't need to exist. It felt like maybe they didn't have enough story to stretch over two more seasons, which is the second season and third season.

Speaker 1 So, and then also in addition to this idea of

Speaker 1 democracy wasn't a bad idea

Speaker 1 that is hanging over this,

Speaker 1 I find myself really drawn.

Speaker 1 So, Gihun, who is Li Jungje's character, the main character that we have in season one, is come back into the game in season two. And it does take two episodes to get us back into the game.
But, like,

Speaker 1 I was watching with a friend of mine and she's like, oh, I got it. I get it.
Katniss needs to go back into the corkwell.

Speaker 2 Like, it is that five.

Speaker 1 But you have to, like, figure out a good reason to, why on earth would he ever go back? And so, this idea of infiltrating from the inside.

Speaker 1 And to me, it kind of makes sense that it would take like two episodes to get us there.

Speaker 1 Rewatching season one, I didn't re-watch all of it, but re-watching it, we're in the game 30 minutes into episode one. We are not messing about.

Speaker 1 And so, the fact that it takes two whole episodes to get us into here, I think, is right. Because I think if he were immediately, if Gi-hun were immediately back into the game, we'd be like, what?

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 absolutely not. This is, this is just for expediency's sake.
So, for sure.

Speaker 2 Especially because, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like within the world of the show, like years have passed.

Speaker 1 It's three years between the beginning of season one and when we enter the game in season two. Uh, because his friend is like, you've been at MIA for three years.
Um,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 for me, the question is around, and I think it goes goes into the scene we have in the park where the recruiter is like

Speaker 1 fucking with all the desperate people and the food and all of that sort of stuff, the scratcher and the food and all of that.

Speaker 1 This goes into like

Speaker 1 Giohun as a character and re-watching season one, episode one, I was so struck by

Speaker 1 what a loser-asshole goofball he is when we meet him at the beginning of the first season.

Speaker 1 I think I had kind of forgotten to what degree he was because maybe because I was just thinking a lot about about what Li Jungjie did in the acolyte and I was just thinking of him as like sort of this like heroic

Speaker 2 he projects nobility like as an actor. They really have to scum him up a little bit to play Gihun.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so like I think that I had forgotten how far he came in season one.

Speaker 1 And so I think watching season two, what's on the line here is like when you go back into this world, which is cutthroat and the worst of humanity and when all the people seemingly working for the game and we'll talk about the recruiter a bit in a second but when all of those people are convinced that

Speaker 1 there's no good left in humanity

Speaker 1 what will that do to our protagonist who with all of his hard-earned character development what will that do to him to put him back in that world and that's really

Speaker 1 because squid game is the most successful when it is

Speaker 1 in addition to the big picture ideas it has, when it's focusing in on these interpersonal interactions, these little like survivor-esque alliances that form, these little tribes that form inside of the players and stuff like that, and their individual little stories.

Speaker 1 Um, like the most popular, or I think the most popular episode from season one that people talk about is the Marble episode, which just is a lot of like deep down character connection

Speaker 1 moments. And so

Speaker 1 to bring it back to him and

Speaker 1 like, can he stay the hero inside of a situation this murky and mucky? You know what I mean? Is something that's on my mind.

Speaker 2 Well, especially because that character is coming into season two, as you said, from such a different place, from a development perspective and from a perspective of having, at least so far, a lot of the answers, right?

Speaker 2 Like, he knows how the games are played, at least the red light, green light right out of the gate. We'll see how they kind of evolve over the course of the season.

Speaker 2 But like, he knows what to do and what not to do. And you can, you can see a little bit of Gihun die when he reveals that information.

Speaker 2 And what people do with with it is they point at him and they say, are you a plant? Are you trying to sabotage us? Are you trying to take all the money for yourself?

Speaker 2 Or maybe the worst one, oh, you know the answer so we can all win the game together. So we will be totally fine.

Speaker 2 Despite, you know, I think some people need to run the math who are competing on this show because it is not your advancing that is making the piggy bank blow up.

Speaker 2 It is how many people around you are dying. And so the number of contestants that so far are willing to say, I don't care who dies around me.

Speaker 2 I want to continue to try to earn my way out of my debt is the kind of dispiriting thing that you could see testing Gihun's patience over the course of this show.

Speaker 1 And I think also that idea, yeah, the idea of like one more game, just one more game. Just one more game.
We can leave any time.

Speaker 1 These new wrinkles of voting every time, we can decide after every game. We just one more and then and then we'll go sort of thing.

Speaker 1 And this idea of like the difference in the rules that you get to keep someone on the money this time versus in the original version, they did a vote like this in the first episode.

Speaker 1 But it was that if they all voted to leave, the money that came down into the piggy bank would go to the families of the people who had died in the game.

Speaker 1 No one was going to get a single cent unless you're the sole survivor, essentially. And so

Speaker 1 the differences are that idea that like you can stay and get, not everyone has to die and you can get some of the money. And also the fact that you're slapping on the costume what your vote was of

Speaker 1 a remain or a leave. And so you get this visual representation of the factions

Speaker 1 hanging around in the dorm here.

Speaker 1 Very, very spooky

Speaker 1 in an office.

Speaker 1 I want to ask you about, so Gong Yu, who is

Speaker 1 like a superstar in Korea. Shout out Train Toupasan

Speaker 1 Hive. Have you seen Train Toupasan?

Speaker 2 I actually have not seen Train Tupusan.

Speaker 1 It's such mahoney bullshit. You will love it.

Speaker 2 I got to get on that.

Speaker 1 It's so good.

Speaker 1 But he played the recruiter in season one.

Speaker 1 And everyone was like, oh my God, what is, I mean, I'm going to make a bad comp here because I am obviously not like super well versed in Korea world, but I'm just sort of like,

Speaker 1 what is Korean George Clooney doing here in this like joint in this like tiny role? And so a lot of people were wondering like if he was going to have a bigger role this season.

Speaker 1 He does

Speaker 1 in a limited sense in that he's here, but he has a healthier role. So what did you think of the time spent with him? Did that feel like advancing to the story? Or were you like TikTok?

Speaker 1 Where's my green jumpsuit?

Speaker 1 Why aren't I back in the game yet? Sort of?

Speaker 2 No, I actually really enjoyed this time spent.

Speaker 2 I think this kind of couples together with the conversation we were having about like how soon is too soon to get back in the game and how much do you have to justify and how much track do you have to lay?

Speaker 2 Like season one, it makes sense. You want to get people to the chaos and the drama and the stakes as soon as possible.

Speaker 2 Season two, not only do we have to justify getting back, but you have this sort of like, how do you get back to a place you didn't know how to get to in the first place?

Speaker 2 And that's how you get this like one if by land, two if by sea situation. Like we're searching for the island, we're checking the subways for

Speaker 2 the recruiter specifically. But like.

Speaker 2 This is frankly the kind of star power that I just don't think a series like this can leave on the table.

Speaker 2 It had that kind of like, I can't remember what the sequencing of the G.I. Joe movies was, but where like Channing Tatum was contractually obligated to return.

Speaker 2 And it was like, what are you going to do? Not put Channing Tatum in your movie? Sure.

Speaker 2 Like, if you have the ability to put Gong Yu in something, you should do it. And I say that not just because I haven't even seen Trey Doubtson, but like Goblin is a huge fucking deal.

Speaker 2 Like, this guy's a massive K-drama star, among many, many other things. And you can see that.

Speaker 2 And I think it's what makes his character, like that recruiter character, so compelling is it is so cold and so warm at the same time.

Speaker 2 Like it is an amazing presentation of undeniable charisma and also just like complete sociopath.

Speaker 1 And there's just, yeah, there's just like a star, the sharp suit and all of that, but there's just like a star quality to him that makes it so believable that he would be able to just like seduce desperate people in the subway into playing a game where he gets to slap their face.

Speaker 1 You're just sort of like, well, yeah, have you looked at him in a suit? Of course.

Speaker 1 But I also think what's interesting because in parallel, right, we get as we're getting Gihun's

Speaker 1 search and

Speaker 1 also Junho's search out on the waters,

Speaker 1 We're meeting this new

Speaker 1 female character. Is it Noel?

Speaker 2 I don't know how you're talking about it. Yeah, Noel, basically.

Speaker 1 We're meeting her. And when I was, when I was, I got totally duped by this because I was watching.
I was like, okay, here's our new young. I was like, really? Are they going to do this again?

Speaker 2 And then set it up.

Speaker 1 And then they just pulled the rug out. And she's actually one of the, I wrote down Squid Guards.
I don't know if they have a technical title, but she's like

Speaker 1 under a pink jumpsuit.

Speaker 1 And so the question is, for gong yoo and noel these characters we get to understand outside of

Speaker 1 the creepy vips and the front man like what is the psychology of people who help run the squid game why would you run a squid game what has brought you here how desperate are you and also what do you have to believe in and the answer for Gong Yoo for certain is absolute nihilism in terms of like i've seen what humanity has to offer and I am not interested.

Speaker 1 And to the point of this,

Speaker 2 like,

Speaker 1 gruesome charade inside of the park that he does with people there.

Speaker 1 Um, how is that all sitting with you with this, with this uh, young woman whom we meet, and with the recruiter and the way his story plays out?

Speaker 2 I do think that's sort of the backgrounding, right? Like the whole conversation we get with the recruiter about

Speaker 2 basically his role within the system of being effectively a lap dog, like a sickum agent, something to go and fetch like new contestants for the show. Like,

Speaker 2 I think paralleling that with Noel's story is really smart, right? As you said, we are set up hookline and sinker to see her as a contestant, right? You see the marks on her wrist.

Speaker 2 You hear about her situation with, it sounds like her baby was separated from her when she defected from North Korea. She's like sleeping in her car.
She is so desperate.

Speaker 2 And when she finally gets the card, it's just assumed that it is to be a contestant.

Speaker 2 But the fact that she's being recruited to be one of these squid guards, I think, shines a different light on the recruiter's story, too, right?

Speaker 2 He was someone who was recruited to be a guard, who was then turned into a recruiter, who was then turned into a lapdog.

Speaker 2 Like the desperation on both sides of that particular aisle, I think, you know, it's all feeding into the story about democracy and voting, too.

Speaker 2 It's like, if you are desperate, you are easier to manipulate.

Speaker 2 And if you're going to tell a story about how you can manipulate people into certain circumstances, I think you start by showing how desperate you can be in a variety of ways.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think what's interesting too, like when we we get Noelle's story at the, at the sort of like,

Speaker 1 I don't know, Every Day is Mardi Gras park that she works in.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Questionable theming, but it seemed to work.
And look, I have to say this.

Speaker 2 My life ended the day that the little girl in the strawberry cap was snubbed for her second lollipop by the replacement pink bunny imposter.

Speaker 2 I have not recovered, Joe. That was very, very tough.

Speaker 1 What about when she saw them with their heads off?

Speaker 2 And then they were all like.

Speaker 2 The quickness with which they tried to put the heads back on, I thought was wonderful.

Speaker 1 It was really good.

Speaker 1 But there's

Speaker 1 the girl with the strawberry hat, her father is also so clearly being set up to be in a position to be desperate and go into the game. And he does, in fact, go into the game.

Speaker 1 And so I was curious, like.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, that's interesting. They'll go in knowing each other, or at least she knows him

Speaker 1 as fellow contestants. And then we find out that uh that's not the case that she's on the other side of this game from this guy that she

Speaker 2 seems to care about his daughter so there's that um well i would say overall this season just has a lot more existing relationships yeah going in right i mean do you want to run them down I mean, we've got mother and son, I think, played to delightful and fascinating effect, especially because the mother's a little bit older.

Speaker 2 And so when the games get more physically taxing, I'm very curious to see how all that plays out. You've got Gihun with an existing friend who's happened upon him in the game.

Speaker 2 You have Thanos the rapper and all of his throngs of fans who want to take selfies with him.

Speaker 2 And a crypto fraudster and all of, at least not all the people, some of the people he defrauded through his YouTube channel by pushing, I guess, doing like a Haktua situation.

Speaker 2 How would you describe it, Joe?

Speaker 1 Sure, sure. Why not?

Speaker 1 Plus his pregnant girlfriend or ex-girlfriend. It's unclear sort of what they're stat.
But like we see him at the beginning.

Speaker 1 She tries to call him she's at the sort of like uh

Speaker 1 ob gn ob gyn like clinic or whatever and then we later see her in the red light green light game holding her belly in a way that i'm like got it got it okay suggestive belly holding got it 100 so yeah so all of that connective tissue is really interesting to me because like of course um gihon had a friend in the first it was like that was like a whole part of the first story um but even more connective tissue between people and the seconds.

Speaker 1 I was like, I wrote down in my notes, I was like, How small is this world? Like, like when he got,

Speaker 1 when he was sort of racing to meet the people that he had hired to try to track down the recruiter on the subway, and he gets pulled over from the cops by the cops.

Speaker 1 The friend that I was watching is like, oh, we know what's going to happen. I was like, what do you mean? She's like, well, Jun Ho is going to be the cop.
I was like, I was like,

Speaker 1 no, it's a big, it's a big town.

Speaker 2 It's a big city.

Speaker 1 I was like, how big is Seoul Korea? Like, this is a big place.

Speaker 1 and then he got out of the car i was like okay no no no this is the show you're watching the show you're watching is like there's well it's like everyone kind of knows each other in a way you know your brother is the front man like you know you're gonna like the coin like this is the story we're telling is that coincidences will abound uh no matter what that's a big difference but there's a lot of like very intentional paralleling going on like Guiona is a friend in the game.

Speaker 1 He's got the same number as he did last time. We're playing red light, green light, the same way we did in season one, episode one.

Speaker 1 We're voting whether to stay or go, which is how that episode ended with one deciding vote going,

Speaker 1 taking us out of the game. That's a whole thing that I had to try to remember.
I was like, oh, yeah, they went out of the game and then back into the game. Bleak.
And then

Speaker 1 there's some cartoonishly villainous bad guys. Once again, Thanos, like fulfilling the game.

Speaker 2 Even more cartoonish, I would say.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I was like,

Speaker 1 how did you feel about the

Speaker 1 crucifix filled with various

Speaker 1 drugs that could be smuggled into the game?

Speaker 2 I just think it's a bittersweet symphony, Joe, this life, you know, when you really, when you really boil it down.

Speaker 1 Did your mind go to cruel intentions or 100%?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's less powdery in this case and more pill form. So, you know, the means of production are a little bit different, but same idea.

Speaker 1 Just in case you weren't a cruel intentions fan, I should have known better, Rob, but just in case you weren't, I did want to like link this reference out to you in our notes notes today.

Speaker 1 And I was like, well, I'm so sorry, but I was trying to find the clip where they like pull it off of her and say, oh, yeah, at the end, very dramatically.

Speaker 1 Cocaine goes everywhere.

Speaker 1 Instead, I found an interview of Sarah Michelle Geller talking about the crucifix.

Speaker 2 And she's like, first of all, it's a lot of cocaine. It's a lot.
Secondly, anyway.

Speaker 2 Well, similarly in this, like, that's a lot of drugs that you're smuggling into the squid game.

Speaker 2 And also, I'm a little shocked that a giant honking crucifix got through squid game security when no one else really has any jewelry or accessories of any kind.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe you're allowed, no, I was going to say, maybe you're allowed to...

Speaker 2 One personal item.

Speaker 1 Maybe you're allowed to keep things of religious significance, but I was like, Squid game, Squid Game doesn't care about your religious beliefs at all. Oh, definitely.

Speaker 2 But Joe, I would be derelict of duty if I did not ask you, as a scholar in the Marvel Arts, how you feel about Thanos being his representative name in this show, this rapper, and in particular, earning the name Thanos because his raps were going to wipe out half of mankind.

Speaker 1 This is controversial because

Speaker 1 as I understand it, there is some controversy in casting this particular character because the actor is

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 we put Machine Gun Kelly. We do put Machine Gun Kelly in movies, but it's like we put

Speaker 1 a musician or a performer or whatever

Speaker 1 of a slightly dubious representation, a rep into the project. I don't know the full story of this guy at all.
I think he's great in this role.

Speaker 2 He is very good. So wonderful.
I would not say, weirdly enough, that you say that, that he is a very good rapper.

Speaker 2 But look, are we, I want to think that maybe we're safe at the like 20-plus minute mark of the Prestige TV podcast from the K-pop fans out there.

Speaker 2 Like, I will say the weakest part of many guy K-pop groups is often the guy who's supposed to be the rapper. So it does not surprise me that this guy would come in with Thanos level rhymes.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I don't know. I really don't know.

Speaker 2 But is my opinion of that being colored by the fact that he tries to make a pass at one of the other contestants and I would say has negative aura overall? Like

Speaker 2 absolutely nothing going on.

Speaker 1 The RIS deficit is

Speaker 1 tough. It's tough.
And then how immediately he's not just like,

Speaker 1 this is fun, people are dying. He is actively shoving people over in the red light and green light game.

Speaker 1 So this is like a, because we had a cartoonishly villainous sort of gangster figure in season one. This is a whole new level, I think, of like

Speaker 1 maniacal villainy. Because like

Speaker 1 he doesn't even have to warm up to this. This is the first game on the first day.
And this is what he's up to.

Speaker 1 This is what he thinks is hilarious on based on the various sweet tarts that he has in his crucifix that he's taking.

Speaker 1 Okay, but so a big twist, I guess, at the end of episode three and why I like we were trying to figure out whether or not we want to stop at the end of episode four or at the end of episode three.

Speaker 1 But I think stopping here at the end of episode three, at the end of the vote, when we get the revelation,

Speaker 1 and I don't know about you, I don't know if you do this the way that I do it, but I think you do because you watch a lot of stuff the way that I do.

Speaker 1 We're following, you know, player number one to the front of the room on the back of his head. And it's like, there's literally only one person this can be.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're going to show me a face, it has to be a face I know. Yes.
So it has to be,

Speaker 1 you know, the front man.

Speaker 2 Dun, dun, dun.

Speaker 1 Dun, dun, dun. Twist.

Speaker 1 So he, he casts the deciding vote here at the end. And they did, you know, they, and I am delighted by this, actually, in that I really find this character, um, you know, I find him.

Speaker 1 very alluring. I am very interested to have him here.
I'm very interested in sort of like what he can do

Speaker 1 to mess stuff up from the inside, all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 What is his connection to Gihun going to be? Like, how is that all going to go? I'm very interested in that. My question for Gihun

Speaker 1 here

Speaker 1 is.

Speaker 2 Yes, we have him on the line.

Speaker 1 Are you, having been duped by Player 001 in season one?

Speaker 2 Are you going to walk into it all over again?

Speaker 1 Are you going to ask any questions of Player 001 here in season two?

Speaker 1 The difference is we, the audience, now know from the jump that this is a plant.

Speaker 1 But Gihun,

Speaker 1 do you know that they're running the same con on you here in season two?

Speaker 2 You know, it's been three years. Maybe he, like many people, has forgotten what happened in season one of Squid Game.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. So he needs to rush a refresher YouTube video, I think.

Speaker 2 I think that would be a good idea. It would really, really help.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So my question about like the same, same, same, different same of this,

Speaker 1 specifically like episode three, is, do you feel like that is a retread to just give us this sort of member barrier's familiarity of you love, you remember you love season one of Squid Game.

Speaker 1 Here's more. It's the same.

Speaker 1 Or...

Speaker 1 Do you feel like the show is actually trying to say something about sort of these cyclical spaces that we find ourselves in?

Speaker 2 I do think it's trying to say something. I think this, this does feel like a season that's in conversation with its own existence in a lot of ways in like a Jurassic world kind of sense.

Speaker 2 Like it's it's in the text that you've got to make it bigger and batter or in this case, like deeper and darker into human nature.

Speaker 2 And look, if you're going to construct the season effectively so far around this like, are you going to take the bread or are you going to take the lottery ticket sort of dynamic?

Speaker 2 The bad news, Joe, is that historically as a species, we take the lottery ticket over and over and over. And it doesn't matter how many times you tell people not to do it.

Speaker 2 It doesn't matter if you have someone in the room who's saying, I have made this choice before. I chose wrong.
And I suggest you take the bread. We will still take the lottery ticket.

Speaker 2 And so I think the repetition is part of the structure.

Speaker 1 This time it's going to be different for me, Rob.

Speaker 2 For you specifically, you're going to get out just fine.

Speaker 1 It's going to work out for me. I'll be fine.

Speaker 2 There has never been a question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 When they're doing the voting section and he gets up to, he has had enough enough and he's gonna

Speaker 1 like reveal himself to everyone i was like i was shaking him i was like this is not gonna go the way you think don't at all don't do it

Speaker 1 keep your trap shut

Speaker 1 and this is this is something i'm like this is this is something to be concerned about with gihun because like for all of his resources like it was astonishing he was running this massive search throwing all the money at this massive search has bought a hotel a derelict hotel as far as we can tell um oh it's derelict i can

Speaker 2 No sweethearts have been in that hotel for quite some time.

Speaker 1 It's not the derelict I was questioning. It's that he bought the whole motel, right? Like he owns the motel.

Speaker 2 He's got security. He's basically

Speaker 2 hired the crime network that he owed money to to now be his crime network to search for the recruiter.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. So he's sorting all his money on it and then he takes us into the room with all the money on the bed and it's barely a dent.
I know.

Speaker 1 Barely a tiniest of a dent in the fortune that he amassed.

Speaker 2 I actually thought that that was really helpful because earlier in the season, you see him give the big bag of money in the process of like, here's everything you need.

Speaker 1 I was like, is this it? Is it the last of his, is he spending the last of his fortune to do this? No.

Speaker 2 And you see every other character respond to the bag of money being like, oh my God, this is a life-changing amount. And it's like, yeah, yeah, man, this doesn't even cover like the footboard.

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Speaker 1 Um, yeah, so he has like

Speaker 1 he has amassed these resources. He found his man.

Speaker 1 He got a special tooth with a transmitter in it, but the transmitter didn't make it in with him.

Speaker 2 Come on.

Speaker 2 That was never going to work.

Speaker 1 He's giving speeches to the room that is

Speaker 1 not what I would do. Having only watched a few seasons of Survivor, I feel like I know better than he does, like, how this was all going to go.

Speaker 1 And so what we have to remind ourselves is this is not any kind of like strategic genius that we're following. This is just a guy who

Speaker 1 really kind of lucked himself. I mean, like he had true grit at the end of it all in season one, but in many ways.

Speaker 2 Wily.

Speaker 1 Very wily, but in many ways lucked himself into winning the game in season one. And so he's not always going to make the smart choice because that's not who this character ever was when we met him.

Speaker 2 No. But the new dimension I think that we're seeing in Gihun's journey and like post-season one development is, yes, he is wily.
Yes, he did get lucky.

Speaker 2 He's also now just like so hardened by the experience that he's playing full rounds of straight six Russian roulette.

Speaker 2 And so like, there is a determination, I think, to obviously take down the machine from the inside, but also just like

Speaker 2 maybe a kind of a fuck it steeliness that he did not have before. And how that plays out and how maybe that wears down as he gets more and more exasperated with everyone around him.

Speaker 2 That's something I want to chart.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's really interesting.

Speaker 1 I have a question for you about Russian roulette. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I haven't played it. Okay.

Speaker 1 You didn't, in all your years in Vietnam, you didn't play

Speaker 2 generally against.

Speaker 1 It was not my understanding in any version of Russian roulette that you spin the barrel of the gun between rounds. I thought the whole point was

Speaker 1 the whole point is that you keep going

Speaker 2 because then the odds get the stakes get higher and higher right isn't that how you play russian roulette well i mean look there's many variations often i do think they spin the what's what's it's the barrel it's the barrel of the gun isn't it it's not the barrel though it's the

Speaker 2 this is where our lack of gun knowledge is really gonna it's really gonna hurt

Speaker 2 chamber the cylinder the cylinder that's the one um i do think you spin the cylinder stare down the barrel of the gun thank you you're right sometimes you see you know they'll put more bullets in as they go, usually one at a time and not inverting one out of six to five out of six like we see in this episode.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I think spinning is part of the process. Like you want to refresh the odds.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I thought it was like that the, okay, well, this is, this exposes to you that I do know the rules of red light, green light, but I do not know the rules of Russian roulette because I thought the whole point was that your odds get...

Speaker 1 shittier and shittier the further you play the game.

Speaker 2 I think you're you're over-indexing on efficiency of time and under-indexing on like the mental torment that is Russian roulette But as we're talking rules here and the various games involved, have you ever played rock paper scissors minus one?

Speaker 2 Um

Speaker 1 no, and did you glean what the rules are by watching it or yeah, okay, can you explain them to me?

Speaker 2 So it based on my admittedly crude and absorbed understanding of the rules of rock paper scissors minus one, you're basically playing you choose two at once. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So you might scissors one hand, rock other hand. And then they do minus one, and you take one of them back.
And so rather, regular rock, paper, scissors is pure luck. So the game is a little bit more.

Speaker 2 Minus one

Speaker 2 also has like a mind fuck element because you see what the other person has. And in this case, one guy accidentally does double rocks because he's so freaked out and gets spared ultimately.

Speaker 2 But don't pick double rock. That would be my advice for minus one.
And he takes the paper.

Speaker 1 His friend takes his, he was officiated at his wedding.

Speaker 2 We heard it multiple times.

Speaker 1 It's like a brother to him. He takes the paper away so that he loses, so that he sacrificed himself.
I understood that last act.

Speaker 1 I think I didn't quite grok this idea that it's like, yeah, then it's a mindfuck because you don't know.

Speaker 1 You have to gamble on which one you think they're going to take away and how that relates to what you're going to take away.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure if you played enough times, there's like only so many maneuvers that make sense at the end of the day, but like, that's that's fun. We should play.
That sounds fascinating.

Speaker 2 Maybe less Russian roulette involved.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 how about no Russian roulette involved? Okay, since Since I don't even know the names of the parts of guns and

Speaker 1 I don't just play Rock, Pairs, Scissors. I thought that was really good.
And again, like Gong Yu's absolute, the recruiter's absolute

Speaker 1 sicko behavior in that sequence was, I thought, phenomenal.

Speaker 2 He responds to shooting a man in the head, I would say, as if he was suddenly wondering, like, where did I put my keys?

Speaker 1 And then he goes to the motel

Speaker 1 and does not bother to wipe any any of the like splatter of blood out of him as he continues along on this journey. And this idea that like

Speaker 1 what I'm curious to know how you think about this idea of like

Speaker 1 the rules matter. Humanity is

Speaker 1 devoid of any redemptive quality, according to the recruiter. But nonetheless, the rules matter of any game he enters enough that he will blow his own head off because he agreed to this game.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about that? Like, what does that tell you about what the show is trying to say about

Speaker 1 people?

Speaker 2 Well, I think this goes back to a lot of the sort of desperation elements of a lot of the contestants, right?

Speaker 2 It's like, if you opt into something, then you are not allowed to complain about it, then you are not allowed to regret it, then you are, you are signing up to be used by the system or used by these people in power, signed up to be part of the squid game or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 Like, it is really hammered home in these episodes. This is voluntary.
You have the option to sign sign out.

Speaker 2 We're not going to give you 100% of the information, but theoretically, you can opt out at this time or that time, or you can vote to leave.

Speaker 2 But it's like there are, there are real decisions and there are fake decisions. And I think throughout the squid game, it's not quite like a golden handcuffs scenario, but it's

Speaker 2 even the possibility of getting golden handcuffs is so enticing to so many different people who are competing in these games that they just can't even bring it within themselves to vote to leave with

Speaker 2 not an insignificant amount of money in their pocket, but not as much as they would want.

Speaker 1 Do you have any, are there any characters that you've met so far of the new characters this season?

Speaker 1 I did think it was interesting that, like, you know, almost all of the characters that we knew in season one died.

Speaker 1 So, who's going to populate season two in a way that is, like, feels maybe familiar to us? And what's interesting in re-watching season one, episode one,

Speaker 1 both the sort of the gangster who winds up dying in rock, paper, scissors and his friend who's in the game are characters in the first half of episode one, season one. So, they got like promoted.

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 one of them got promoted to like series regular here in season two. So I thought that was like an interesting use of resources.

Speaker 1 But in terms of like new characters we meet, is there anyone you are particularly invested in so far?

Speaker 2 So it's a weird kind of collision of ideas for me because I think on a character basis, Noel is the most interesting new character to me.

Speaker 2 Someone who has said we got duped into thinking would be a contestant is not. So there's all of that at play.

Speaker 2 There is, as you alluded to, this dynamic between her and this girl's father who's in the game.

Speaker 2 And she's kind of clocking him and how she feels about that and reacts to that over the course of the season. I want to see.
But ultimately, I would say going from season one to season two,

Speaker 2 there's a little bit of the mystique of the game taken away, right?

Speaker 2 Like we've seen enough of the backstage at this point that I'm not super interested in what's behind the curtain because we already kind of know what's there or what's not there.

Speaker 2 And so that character alone, I would say, is giving me a reason to be a little bit more invested in that part of the story.

Speaker 2 It's giving me a little bit more of a balance overall in not just what is she going to, this character that we know is so desperate and has been at the end of her rope. Like, what is she going to do?

Speaker 2 What matters to her? Where are her lines as a person? But also, how does she fit into this machine that I think I already know pretty well, but I'm sure there will be twists and turns in that too.

Speaker 1 I think for that reason, the front man is really intriguing to me. And I did, I did text you over the weekend that I'm like, was calling this

Speaker 1 actor, Lee Byung-hun,

Speaker 1 like a Korean Mads Mickelson. There's something like

Speaker 1 oddly just sort of taut and smooth about his face in the same way that Mads' face is. And I find him extremely compelling.

Speaker 1 The way that that character, the front man,

Speaker 1 both shot his brother, but also it seems sort of let his brother go. So that drama, so who is that? So he's not completely lost to the world in terms of devoid of humanity.

Speaker 1 He's also a previous, we understand, a previous winner of the game. So like,

Speaker 1 and we learn more about his backstory and how he had a sick wife and all this sort of stuff like that. So like,

Speaker 1 who is he and what is he, what is his presence in the game? How far is he going to go with his presence in the game?

Speaker 1 And that whole element is really, really intriguing to me.

Speaker 1 And I think in general, what was true of season one and is true here is: like, I'm really interested to see the bonds that form between these characters.

Speaker 1 I don't know if we're headed what exactly we're headed for in terms of where all of this is going.

Speaker 1 Obviously, I have seen more than you have, but I have not seen the full story that the show wants to tell, so I don't know where all we're going.

Speaker 1 But, like, I can't help myself but be invested once again

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 these players, be they flawed or not. Like,

Speaker 1 the example of

Speaker 1 Young Sick, who is the gambler, and his mother.

Speaker 1 This is a fairly reprehensible character, this guy who has gotten not only himself, but his mom, like, sort of in trouble. And then his mother, this very like self-sacrificial

Speaker 1 character,

Speaker 2 who's there, we should say, basically to try to pay off her son's debts.

Speaker 1 Right. So it's like

Speaker 1 he is incredibly flawed. She, as far as we know, other than like being confused, skeptical about a transgender participant, like is,

Speaker 1 you know, a virtuous person. And I'm like invested in both of them.
How is she going to do? But how is he going to do? Who has the opportunity to like improve as a person?

Speaker 1 Who has the opportunity to be corrupted as a person? What, what will

Speaker 1 you're right? We've seen the game before. So obviously we're not like, we can't do beat for beat season one, but we, we are nonetheless in this pot of boiling water.

Speaker 1 Like, what is this boiling water going to do to these various archetypes Is still interesting to me, even though I wasn't sure it would be. So, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think the overall structure just has more replayability than I gave it credit for. Yeah, yeah.
And some of that, again, is like the difference.

Speaker 2 In if you were to ask me if I were to design the architecture for a Squid Game Season 2, I would say entirely new cast. I would not attempt to do like bring Yihoon back.
I would do anthology.

Speaker 2 I would bring, I would do obviously different dynamics, but like, look, I'm never going to be mad about Li Jungjie being in anything. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But that character kind of had his story, and I would try to move on to a different one.

Speaker 2 But the value in bringing him back is that now you get to look at all of these games as a season two viewer does in a lot of ways, right?

Speaker 2 Like we know the ins and outs, he knows the ins and outs, and it's changing the shape of how you play them over the course of the show.

Speaker 2 That alone, I think, makes everything feel a little different and a little fresher. And then, yeah, all of these characters who we have no idea what kinds of alliances they'll form.

Speaker 2 We have no idea who will come to hate who.

Speaker 2 I do have a sneaking suspicion that the guy who owns 10 billion won and brags about how important you have to be to get a loan that big, he will probably not be on a huge arcing journey this season, I don't think.

Speaker 2 But I would love to be surprised.

Speaker 1 There's a character very similar to that guy in Train to Busan, and I was just sort of like, oh,

Speaker 1 I see you.

Speaker 1 I see this archetype and where we're going to go with you. Or maybe not.

Speaker 1 I could be surprised. Who's to say?

Speaker 2 I do enjoy it this part of the season. They're like, they run through as soon as everyone gets to the game, how much debt everyone is in, really putting people in their place.

Speaker 2 And you get a sense of these characters like sizing each other up, like scolding each other, like looking down at each other, trying to justify why their circumstances are not as bad as somebody else's.

Speaker 2 And as soon as the first game happens, like people are just covered in blood and cowering between the bunks, right? Like it, it.

Speaker 2 The leveling happens so quickly in Squid Game in a way that I think resets the stage. Now we start see now that the first challenge is out of the way.
Like who, who are these people really?

Speaker 2 What are they made of? Like how do they kind of reacclimate to a world where, yeah, that guy's a rapper, but maybe I also saw him push three people to their death.

Speaker 1 I sure did. I sure did see that rub.

Speaker 2 I mean, he didn't try to hide it. His arms were frozen out.
Like, it's right there.

Speaker 1 Come on, guys. It's tough.

Speaker 1 I think we, did we do it? I think we did it. We're in the great game now, and so there's a lot to cover in four, five, six, and seven.
So we'll be back in the new year to cover that.

Speaker 1 We're also on this feed. We've got other stuff we've done.
We've done best moment of the year

Speaker 1 podcast that we did. We are, despite all evidence to the contrary, still covering the agency.

Speaker 2 Indeed.

Speaker 1 There's a lot going on, and we have a lot of plans for the new year that we're really excited about. So I hope you guys enjoy the rest of Squid Game.

Speaker 1 Happy holidays. Fire up that Squid Game Ulog if you you, if you so desire um

Speaker 2 and and we'll see you soon rob anything else you want to say to folks before we go just because i don't think we mentioned up top if you do have any thoughts about squid game or any of the other shows we're covering email us at prestigetv at spotify.com i guess like you know how you think you're doing at the games who you think will be on the biggest narrative journey this season i'm i'm open to all theories How do you think you would do inside of a Squid Game, Rob Mahoney?

Speaker 2 Pretty terribly.

Speaker 1 I'm out at red light, green light, personally. That's what I think happens to me.

Speaker 2 The balance, like, like, what are you worried about?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, or I'm just like Twitchy and I would just like freak out, you know, as soon as the bullets start flying.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing for both of us. Like, the plan that they pull together at red light, green light is hide behind the bigger people, Joe.

Speaker 1 We are tall people.

Speaker 2 Tall people at the front is not a good structure for us. Yeah, we're not.

Speaker 2 Nor, frankly, I would say, is it really a good strategy for anybody else?

Speaker 2 Because like these people are getting taken down with with like a sniper rifle from someone who is in the North Korean military.

Speaker 2 Not only do they fall backwards, but like, you're telling me if you're standing right behind someone, you couldn't get a bullet through them into you. Oh, yeah.
I'm not messing with that.

Speaker 1 Um, all right. Well, uh, so we would be out in round one, but tell us.

Speaker 2 I'm voting, I'm voting leave. I'm voting leave as soon as possible.
In fact, I'm not even signing the waiver. I'm just, I'm just getting back on the boat.

Speaker 1 I am also not signing the waiver, but um, tell us how far you would go. What, what game do you think would knock you out? Prestige TV at spotify.com.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 thanks so much to Justin Sales for his work trying to juggle all these Prestige TV episodes with us. Thanks to Donnie Beacham for filling in for Kai.

Speaker 1 Donnie, great to have you here on the Prestige feed. And we'll see you all soon.
Bye.