Raging Moderates: Why Politicians are Launching Podcasts Ahead of 2028

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Speaker 2 Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.

Speaker 3 And I'm Jessica Tarloff.

Speaker 2 Okay, Jess. In today's episode of Raging Moderates, we're discussing the races we're watching one week out until Election Day, why presidential contenders keep launching podcasts.

Speaker 2 I love that.

Speaker 2 They've figured out that.

Speaker 3 I even knew that that would be your favorite topic.

Speaker 2 And Kamala is leaving the door open. Oh, yay.
Okay, it's time for banter. How are you? Jess, I don't know if it's the algorithm.
I don't think it's just the algorithm. You are so on fire right now.

Speaker 2 I keep seeing these little clips of you, and I'm fond of you, and I think you're super smart. So I like the clips, but then I see like 11 billion people have liked it.

Speaker 2 You are, are you the most popular? I don't follow the other four people you serve with.

Speaker 2 But are you the biggest on social media of everyone on the phone?

Speaker 3 No. No.
Are you kidding me? No, they have empires. But what is most exciting about a viral clip for me is that I have, I guess, by extension, figured out how to get you to text me.

Speaker 3 Because if you see that enough other people like me, then you're forced to pick up your phone

Speaker 3 and send me a text.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I only want to hang out with the cool kids.

Speaker 3 Because I feel closer to you now, which is what I've been searching for in life.

Speaker 3 No, my social media life is much, much, much smaller than the other co-hosts of the five. But it is,

Speaker 3 it's interesting to see obviously what the algorithm does. Like you, you know, you're stuck in a, in a Jessica Tarlove loop at this particular moment, but because

Speaker 3 the social media companies have made it easy to monetize outrage and clicks, you see Republicans pumping it up too, right? Because they want to call me like

Speaker 3 an idiot. So they're reposting it as well.
And then it's just going further and further, which I assume is not really what they want to do in general, but they want to make money.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 funding their kids' school tuition too.

Speaker 2 Whenever I have a clip go viral, a couple things happen. I hear from people from high school that I didn't know.

Speaker 3 Isn't that so nice?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's nice, but it's sort of like we weren't friends. We didn't know each other.
Like, what's up?

Speaker 3 Now you're very cool.

Speaker 2 I went to a 2,000-person high school. So, and then I'll hear from some distant cousin in Scotland or somewhere that a quick perusal of their social, they're clearly like raging alcoholics.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I'm not sure I need to reestablish connection with this person.

Speaker 2 I don't hear from the people I want to hear from when my clips go viral. I hear from people, not necessarily the ones I want to hear from.
Anyways,

Speaker 2 let's get into it. Our producer's getting angry.

Speaker 2 We're a week from Election Day, and three big races are defining the final stretch. In New York City, the mayor's race has turned into pure political drama.

Speaker 2 Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Sila are hammering frontrunners on Momdami, who's firing back by reminding voters of Cuomo scandals.

Speaker 2 In Virginia and New Jersey, Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill are testing whether a centrist national security brand still wins in swing states, both leading slightly, but Trump's influence hangs over both races.

Speaker 2 And in California, Prop 50, the so-called screw Trump measure, is surging. On paper, it's about redistricting, but Democrats are selling it as payback against Trump and Texas Republicans.

Speaker 2 Jess, can Cuomo's last-minute appeal to Republican and independent voters close the gap? What do you think? What's your prediction for New York? You're on the ground there. What's the vibe?

Speaker 3 The vibe at the polls is older, which is what Andrew Cuomo wants.

Speaker 3 And it'll be interesting if this really does turn out. I mean, it's just early voting.

Speaker 2 It's like a no-kings protest.

Speaker 3 A little. Older and whiter.
Definitely Jewish.

Speaker 3 You know, Mom Donnie's odds of winning were at 95% a couple of days ago. It's down to 90% right now, which, you know, still seems like pretty good odds, but it is trending down.

Speaker 3 I think that Eric Adams dropping out had more of an impact than some folks expected.

Speaker 3 There was a new pollout from Suffolk University, and Cuomo is now just down 10 points, which is still a lot of points, but moving in that direction. And he's winning voters age 45 plus.

Speaker 3 And with seniors, he's plus four, only plus one with the 45 to 54-year-old bracket. So that it's basically, you know, break even, but it is moving in that direction.

Speaker 3 I think, I don't know, I don't want to be the person that says that somebody who had this kind of a historic primary win and seems to have all this enthusiasm.

Speaker 3 I'm sure you saw at least social clips of that rally that he had in Queens over the weekend with Bernie and AOC. I mean, that's a presidential looking rally.
It's not a mayoral election rally.

Speaker 3 And part of that is that Bernie and AOC were there, of course. But there's so much vibe, so much enthusiasm going into this campaign.
But

Speaker 3 vibe and enthusiasm doesn't always vote in the same way.

Speaker 3 This is something that happened to Bernie, right, in the 2016 primary, that there are a lot of people who are interested, politically active, but are not necessarily turning out for these things or walking around wearing swag.

Speaker 3 And they show up at the polls and they vote. And those people in the primary voted for Hillary Clinton and not Bernie Sanders.

Speaker 3 I think it would really kind of upend all of the regular thinking about how elections work to say that Andrew Cuomo is going to pull this out.

Speaker 3 But David Shore, who's an incredible pollster elections analyst, numbers guy, he posted that Cuomo can win and may win. And that is breathing new life into their campaign.

Speaker 3 They are acting like they are actually running for something, which is nice to see. It's like a proof of life situation.

Speaker 3 Though I do want to note that some of the ways that it's manifesting itself, like the blatant Islamophobia that is flying around now, you know, people posting images of planes going into the Twin Towers and saying, you know, like vote like your life depends on it.

Speaker 3 And I know that Cuomo, when he was on Sid Rosenberg's radio show, was not the one who said, you know, like mom Donnie would be happy about another 9-11.

Speaker 3 Cuomo was trying to talk about, can you imagine a scenario where someone, a 34-year-old with no executive experience, is doing this, but that is lighting people up.

Speaker 3 And people are hearing that warning call that this is somebody for the folks that deal in Islamophobia, that they're conscious of that.

Speaker 3 But also a lot of people, Republicans, Sleewa supporters, big donors that are saying, we just can't have this guy. And Sleewa quit his radio show.
Did you see this? Like live on air. I didn't.

Speaker 3 He had Katsumatidis on, who owns the channel as well, and is his boss, who told him to drop out.

Speaker 3 And he like, you know, did the thing, pulled his mic off and was like, F you, like, I'm not dropping out.

Speaker 3 And Katzmatidis, like a lot of powerful people in the city, are scared about what a Mamdani administration would look like. What's What's your

Speaker 3 view from the other side?

Speaker 2 I have purposely, there's a

Speaker 2 quote I saw that was so resonant with me. And it said, you don't have to have an opinion on everything.

Speaker 2 Every issue does not demand your judgment. And you get a little bit of a platform and a little bit of positive affirmation, and you feel as if you have to weigh in on everything.

Speaker 2 And I've been infected with that. And I'm trying to be more disciplined lately about

Speaker 2 I don't have to have an opinion on any, everything. I don't have to weigh in.
And the New York mayoral race, I'm not a New York resident. I'm a Florida resident living in London.

Speaker 2 I have very strong connections to New York because I teach at NYU and I lived there for 10 years.

Speaker 2 And not only that, I don't know if you felt this way, but I've had some of my Jewish friends weigh in and say, why aren't you more vocal about the race?

Speaker 2 Which is their way of saying, why aren't you more vocal against Momdami?

Speaker 2 And I feel like not everything is about us Jews. Oh, I'm going to get shit for that.

Speaker 2 I feel like this is a race about, quite frankly, who can make sure the subways work and the trash is collected and that the city grows its tax base and continues to attract people that are the smartest, best and brightest so we can have an amazing city and that it's worth a 13% incremental tax rate.

Speaker 2 And I don't want the mayor, quite frankly, commenting on or going to Israel. I don't.
I don't give a shit what they think. I mean,

Speaker 2 some of the things that Momdami has said and the people he has endorsed, I would not if I were a New York resident. I could not vote for him.

Speaker 2 I don't, I think some of the things he has said or the things he has endorsed,

Speaker 2 his refusal to call for Hamas to lay down their weapons, he highlights

Speaker 2 Palestinian people being killed, which is obviously horrific the same day that Hamas pulls people out of their homes who are suspected of collaboration and executes them, those are disqualifying for me.

Speaker 2 But also, I also recognize that the mayoral race, and where I think he won, where I think he won the race from an outsider standpoint, I'm good at business predictions.

Speaker 2 I'm terrible at political predictions. So my prediction is I don't think there's any way he can lose.
I saw that rally you saw.

Speaker 2 I'm like, that kind of enthusiasm gets people to the polls in the rain when they're late for work. You know, that gets the turnout.
I don't see how, quite frankly, how we can lose. But, you know,

Speaker 2 this has become so divisive. And what I say to my Jewish friends who don't live in New York is that, is this really really your fight?

Speaker 2 And I don't think the mayor is going to single-handedly promote or antagonize

Speaker 2 Jewish or Israeli interests.

Speaker 2 I don't think this is the hill we want to die on. And when I say we, I mean the diaspora here.

Speaker 2 And also, I don't think it's fair what has, you know, some of the allegations against him, I think, have been a little bit unfair.

Speaker 2 At the same time, like I said, a lot of the shit he said would be totally disqualifying for me. And a member of our team, who shall remain nameless, summarized it.

Speaker 2 We have a mayoral race between a Hansi 60, 70-year-old and an anti-Semite.

Speaker 2 That's where we are. You know, that this is just not a great place to be in, I think,

Speaker 2 for New York voters. And also, I don't think it helps that all these rich white people are coming out against him.

Speaker 2 I think they've done more for him than they've actually hurt him, despite all their money. Your thoughts?

Speaker 3 I largely agree. I think, you know, I've been listening to a lot of

Speaker 3 what the rabbis are saying from major synagogues across the city, and they are deeply concerned about the impact that Mom Dani will have on the city and the protection of Jewish life here.

Speaker 3 And we've talked about this before, that the one question, if Mom Dani had wanted to come on the pod, but he didn't.

Speaker 3 But what I would like to ask him is, let's pretend that you were mayor when the college protests are going on on Columbia's campus. That's a great question.
What do you do differently?

Speaker 3 It's a great question.

Speaker 3 And I think that opens up the door to explain his perspective, how he came to it, to also talk about civil rights infringement, which I definitely think happened to Jewish students on those campuses

Speaker 3 and how he would have managed that. And I think that that would have gone a long way in

Speaker 3 kind of, you know, alleviating people's fears about this.

Speaker 3 I tend to agree with you, you know, like watching the markets and could Cuomo pull this off? I guess so. You know, David Shore would know better than I would.

Speaker 3 But what I'm concerned about is if that does miraculously happen, that Cuomo wins, what happens to the city? Because you have all of these working people, you know, for all the things that

Speaker 3 people are concerned about that they want their mayor to do.

Speaker 3 The number one thing and what he's been talking about is, can New York City become a place that working people can live and thrive in again?

Speaker 3 And if you look around at, you know, cost of living, you know, standard of living here in the city, it is not a good place to be if you are a working person. And his campaign has been focused on that.

Speaker 3 So if, you know, a bunch of older, wealthier people show up and stamp out that light, right? And basically say, you know, we're just going back to the old way of doing things.

Speaker 3 Someone that even in endorsements of Andrew Cuomo, like the Daily News endorsed him, but they said, you know, like, basically he's he's a bad guy, but he's better for this job.

Speaker 3 The New York Times had said the same thing that

Speaker 3 that further depresses people, you know, their mental health-wise, certainly, but it, it separates us into these buckets even more.

Speaker 3 And income inequality is one of the biggest problems that we're facing. And we basically just say, oh, you had a whole movement.
Yeah, well.

Speaker 3 Now you're going to show up and we're going to stamp that out too.

Speaker 3 I wanted to get your take, though. So Virginia and New Jersey are very different races to what's going on in New York.
You have two very moderate candidates in Mikey Sheryl and Abigail Spanberger.

Speaker 3 I think both will win. Mikey Sheryl's race will be a bit closer.
Spanberger, I think, could be quite big, kind of, you know, close to 10 points in terms of her advantage.

Speaker 3 And she may very well pull the AG candidate, Jay Jones, the one who sent the violent text messages over the line.

Speaker 3 But we'll see about that.

Speaker 3 You know, a lot of people who have more moderate politics would like to talk about those races much more than they want to talk about Mom Donnie and what it says about the Democratic Party.

Speaker 3 So, you know,

Speaker 3 what are your thoughts about that dichotomy?

Speaker 2 Look, yeah, I agree with you to a certain extent. Those are more important races.

Speaker 2 I'm going to... Our producer is going to go crazy.
I just want to make another comment about New York. And then, quite frankly, you just have deeper domain expertise about these races.

Speaker 2 So I want to get your view on them.

Speaker 2 Just circling back to New York for a second, there's a new Rosewood here in London, and it's amazing. And it's so wonderful and so nice.
And there's a new carbon in it. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 The problem is you have to be rich to do anything, to stay at the Rosewood or go to the restaurants there. I think New York is in a golden age.
When I go to New York, I can't get over how good it is.

Speaker 2 I live in Soho or I have a place in Soho. New restaurants, I feel like post-COVID, the city shed its skin.
I don't see very many homeless. I see new clubs, new members' clubs.
But here's the thing.

Speaker 2 I have money. And I think New York has become the rosewood of cities.
And that is, it's amazing. But when I first came to New York out of UCLA,

Speaker 2 I lived with two roommates in a shitty one-bedroom apartment. We used to pool our vouchers after work.
We got a voucher for a car and a certain per diem of like 25 bucks.

Speaker 2 And between all of us, we could go downtown to the I think it was called the Surf Club or the Shark Club, or we could go to O and we could, you know, not making a ton of money, but making some money, have really fun lives.

Speaker 2 And I had friends who were artists. I had friends who were musicians playing backup music at jazz,

Speaker 2 and they could dance between the raindrops and try and make a go of it.

Speaker 2 There's no fucking way now. There's only three types of people in Manhattan right now.

Speaker 2 You're either in tech, you got transferred here, or you work for Meta or Google or a technology company that's overfunded and they can pay you $200,000 to $300,000 a year.

Speaker 2 You're working for JPMorgan or Goldman, you're in finance, or or your parents are putting you through New York. There is no scrappiness.
It's just not possible.

Speaker 2 And even the kids, you know, we talk a lot about income inequality, and we tend to couch income inequality as someone who's like making $50,000 a year and their wife gets diagnosed with lung cancer.

Speaker 2 And that's like, okay, congratulations. That now means your family's going bankrupt.
Income inequality is creeping up the income ladder. And that is,

Speaker 2 say you and your husband make really good livings in New York. You played by the rules.
you're outstanding. You were great in high school.
You were great in college. You went to an elite college.

Speaker 2 You worked your ass off. You got the right certification, made the right contacts.
You got a great job. You're making 200 grand.
Your wife is making 300 grand. You're making a half a million bucks.

Speaker 2 You can't afford to live in New York. A person making 500 grand probably pays in New York, probably makes enough money to have an incremental tax rate of 40%.

Speaker 2 So that's 300. They're taking home $25,000.

Speaker 2 Say they go out on a limb and decide to have a kid. So they need a two-bedroom, maybe a three-bedroom.
Their take-home pay is $25,000 a month. That apartment is $15,000 a month.

Speaker 2 Childcare, if you both want to work, because is, do you realize the going rate right now for childcare of a person who's documented in New York is $150,000 a year. And good for them.

Speaker 2 I like to see people doing real work, get paid well.

Speaker 2 You can't live in New York unless you are literally, people ask me all the time, what's it like to live in New York and London? And I very terrifiously say, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 Just make sure you can lubricate it with millions of dollars.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So

Speaker 2 totally. It's nobody.
And the thing is, no one feels sorry for the couple making a half a million. Or

Speaker 2 like you can make a million. This is why I left in New York.
I lived in New York, and this was up until 2011. I was making, my partner was working at Goldman.

Speaker 2 I was starting to hit my stride professionally, even though I was a professor. I was starting to get speaking gigs and book things.
We were making like 800 grand a year.

Speaker 3 And I thought, oh my God, 800 grand a year.

Speaker 2 And on a regular basis, I would think, oh, we can't pay our credit card right away. Like, what? And we weren't living large.

Speaker 2 And I think, okay. And now it's even worse.
I hear about an average one bedroom is $5,500.

Speaker 2 I go in, I buy a drink somewhere. It's, it's $24 for a maker's and ginger at the places I go to.
Like, how does a young person, I don't care,

Speaker 2 How does any young person that doesn't have their parents' money

Speaker 2 live in New York? And the problem is that is bad for the, I don't think anyone has a birthright to live in New York, right? You don't have a birthright to stay at the Rosewood.

Speaker 2 But the problem is, New York's economy will not continue to thrive if it can't attract scrappy, energetic

Speaker 2 people with a diverse background. Our economy will become a butler economy like London, where it's just a small group of service people servicing wealth made somewhere else.
You need that mojo.

Speaker 2 You need scrappy, aggressive people who feel like they can make it in New York if they try hard and watch their budget. Those people are gone.
This has become the most elite.

Speaker 2 You know, New York has become basically the rosewood. And that is, it's amazing if you can afford it, but

Speaker 2 it's affordability really is a huge issue here. I'm meeting with,

Speaker 2 oh,

Speaker 2 I'll ask him if I can use his name, but I'm meeting with this iconic guy who's got way more resources and contacts than I do about what types of programs could potentially attract more young people and get them, you know, and make it affordable for them in New York.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 you make an exceptional living. Your husband makes a good living.

Speaker 2 You're on the ground there. What's it like trying to get by in New York?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 getting by is not the right term to be using because we are certainly getting by very well well and have a high standard of living, but it is the conversation that every single person in my demographic, every couple, every person in my demographic is having.

Speaker 3 Can we afford to stay here? Where could we live in the city

Speaker 3 where this would be okay to be on this salary, which is nerve-wracking to think you have to keep it up, right, for decades?

Speaker 3 This isn't like, oh, I could have, you know, my heyday and then take it easier. Like you have to be all gas, right?

Speaker 3 For as long as humanly possible, you have, which I think this is one of the good things, you have a real kind of renaissance of the public school system because parents like us are moving into neighborhoods and rejuvenating these public schools and serving on the PTAs and making sure to donate and taking a really active role in their kids' lives like they would if they went to private school.

Speaker 3 So that's a good thing. And I love the idea of having these wonderful community schools

Speaker 3 that also service, you know, some kids who have less than like my daughters do.

Speaker 3 But it's incredibly nerve-wracking. And I see this with like, you talk about the city has to be a place for scrappy upstarts.
Like

Speaker 3 all of the young people who do babysitting are exactly this demographic. Like they work, I have these two amazing girls who help us out.
They work in fashion, get paid absolutely nothing.

Speaker 3 They told me that now when you go to bars, cocktail bars, that the bartender will split a drink for three of them. Like this is a known thing that is happening out.

Speaker 3 So he'll, but he'll make sure that or she will make sure that each of them have their own fun glass, right?

Speaker 3 So that it looks like they had the whole drink and they're pre-gaming, which has always been a thing and you want to hang out with your friends before you go out, but more now out of necessity versus what it was before, that it was just a hang where they're thinking we can probably only afford one drink if we're going to go out at night.

Speaker 3 And they babysit every night of the week that they can get a job. And part of that is fun.

Speaker 3 They're young, they're 25, but they go out at midnight then instead of going out with your friends at, you know, nine, 10 o'clock, waiting for those parents to come home.

Speaker 3 So it's definitely a different scene than it was when I was growing up.

Speaker 3 And my parents who were also doing very well, you know, their panic about how do we pay $25,000 a year for the school that I went to, it is now $65,000. It was $25,000 when I went.
It is $65,000 now.

Speaker 3 And you get financial aid if you earn $350,000.

Speaker 3 That qualifies you for financial aid.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when we left New York in 2011, and the thing that drove us out of the city was my son, who at the time was speech delayed. By the way, everything's worked out.

Speaker 2 He's now applying to elite schools. We'll see if he gets in, but everything worked out.
But he was speech delayed.

Speaker 2 And we applied to seven schools, and none of them would let my four-year-old go to school for $58,000 a year. It was $58,000.

Speaker 2 And I was living in faculty housing because I couldn't afford not to live in faculty housing. But the apartment we had before that was $12,000 a month.

Speaker 2 We moved to Delray Beach and blessed, I can do that. I commuted to New York during the week.
The school there, this lovely little school called Gulfstream, $12,000 a year.

Speaker 2 And we got a three-bedroom on the inner coastal for $5,500 a month.

Speaker 2 I mean, and granted, a lot of that price disparity has been arbed out by all these people discovering Texas and Florida and moving down there, and the prices have gone up there.

Speaker 2 But Momdami's genius is the same as Trump's genius, and that is they focused on affordability.

Speaker 2 And we aren't talking about major structural issues to increase the stock of housing, to put more money in young people's pockets, and to stop constantly sequestering and creating essentially the greatest legislative theft in history that just tilts the entire economy all towards a small number of corporations and pockets.

Speaker 2 And it's creating income inequality even in the wealthiest cities where unless you're in the 0.1%,

Speaker 2 you just can't, you know, that dream is

Speaker 2 out of reach. Anyways, we really have gone over here.
I'm going to ask you to make a quick comment on Spanberger and Cheryl and those races.

Speaker 3 I think that they're going to go well for Democrats, but in Virginia, what I think is going to be even more interesting is the Virginia House of Delegates.

Speaker 3 So their legislative body, 100 members right now, Dems have a 51 to 49 advantage.

Speaker 3 Those are generic Democrats, right? They're not on big, flashy campaigns, running very local races.

Speaker 3 So do Democrats have a big night next Tuesday in the Virginia House of Delegates, I think, will say more about the midterms necessarily than anything else. Like what is the real mood on the ground?

Speaker 3 And it is Virginia, which is, you know, suffering big time from the shutdown.

Speaker 3 And we should just quickly note Prop 50, the California redistricting law will be on the ballot. Next Tuesday, Republicans have basically given up.
They said they're going to raise $100 million.

Speaker 3 They've raised about $10 million. Odds of it passing is up to 57%.

Speaker 3 It was at 51% in September, but it is setting off this chain reaction of redistricting wars.

Speaker 3 Hakeem Jeffries, Speaker of the House, was in Illinois yesterday talking to legislators there about carving up their map as much as they can. Virginia, surprise that they're getting in on this.

Speaker 3 Maryland can add a seat, but you see Trump pushing in Texas. Now in Indiana, I think that the Republicans could net up to 19 seats.
So we're trying to find a way to counteract that.

Speaker 3 But Prop 50 would go a long way towards that. It would get nine seats in one go.

Speaker 3 So positive.

Speaker 2 Have you seen any analysis of how this likely all nets out? Like who wins, who loses?

Speaker 2 Or is this just a bunch of motion with no difference where the Democrats and the Republicans all end up with sort of the same ratio?

Speaker 2 Who do you think wins and loses if everybody kind of is able to ram this through?

Speaker 3 I think then it goes back to about net zero and Democrats should have a good midterms. I'm feeling more optimistic about that.
But it is good to see the ruthless spirit on the Democratic side.

Speaker 3 You know, these are not normal times. And in most of these scenarios, like in Virginia and California, they're not blowing up the bipartisan or independent redistricting commission forever.

Speaker 3 They're basically saying we need to get out of the Trump era with, you know, with our shirts, essentially, and we can't stand by and let this happen, which I think is exactly the kind of fighter mentality that Democrats have to have.

Speaker 3 But the last couple of weeks, it has started to look much more rosy for Democrats in the midterms. So I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 I mean, it looks like Mom Dami, Spanberger, and Cheryl are all like Polymarket and Calci have them at 90 plus percent each. I mean,

Speaker 2 it feels like these are sort of done deals. And also keep in mind, or what I like to remind people, is the media always tries to turn everything into a race such that you need something to talk about.

Speaker 2 And they'll tune in the next day and click on it. And then

Speaker 2 we have content. Also, I think that

Speaker 2 I think Prop 50 is going to be another feather in Newsom's cap. I think that right now he's seen as the

Speaker 2 first Democrat who is effectively effectively pushing back.

Speaker 2 And everybody else, he's not afraid to

Speaker 2 do stupid shit on social media that gets clicks. He's not afraid to say very,

Speaker 2 you know, everyone. Provocative.
Yeah. Everyone's looking for someone not to just to just look amazed and say, good sir,

Speaker 2 that's it. You have insulted our...

Speaker 2 This is a guy shoving back. And I think everybody is desperate for that right now.
Totally. All right, Jess, let's take a quick break.
Stay with us.

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Speaker 2 Welcome back. Politicians Can't Stop Launching Podcasts.
God, I love this story.

Speaker 2 Gavin Newsom's This Is Gavin Newsom, which I've actually been on, now pulls in about 1.6 million downloads a month, putting him just behind Ted Cruz, whose verdict with Ted Cruz leads the pack with roughly 1.8 million.

Speaker 2 From Ron DeSantis' policy heady Florida Man briefings to Andy Bashir's UBU boo self-care sessions, the politician podcast boom is officially here.

Speaker 2 No fewer than six potential 2028 contenders now host their own shows. Jess, is launching a podcast the new writing a book ahead of a presidential run?

Speaker 3 Well, I think they do both. I think it's as much

Speaker 3 press and possibility to make money as possible. But I do feel like launching your own podcast versus showing up on the right podcasts is something to consider.

Speaker 3 Like if you have a podcast that nobody listens to, and it looks like besides Newsom and Ted Cruz, who has a podcast called The Verdict that's super popular, it feels a bit like shouting into the void.

Speaker 3 And I don't know if it addresses the issues that we had in the 2024 election because it wasn't like, can you have a conversation with Jamie Harrison about the state of the Democratic Party?

Speaker 3 It was, can you hang with Andrew Schultz? Like, can you go on Rogan? And I don't know if we have necessarily

Speaker 3 solved that problem, but it was funny to see. And it reminded me of

Speaker 3 like my route to raging moderates. You know, I showed up on Croft G, right? We had conversations and then it was like, oh, maybe we could make something out of this.

Speaker 3 And I feel like that is a safer route or a more successful route to having a pod empire. I'm sure you have more thoughts about this topic than any other topic we've talked about.

Speaker 2 Well, look,

Speaker 2 I think podcasts elected, I think the Matisphere and podcasts elected Trump. And I think they've all figured that out and Newsom again.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 let me just come out. I'm a huge fan of the governors.
I think people, or Governor Newsom's, I think people can consistently underestimate him. I think his heart's in the right place.

Speaker 2 And I think we're a highly luxus nation, and I want the Democrat to win. And I think that you need a tall, white, heterosexual man right now,

Speaker 2 maybe not white,

Speaker 2 to take back the White House.

Speaker 2 And by the way, I don't think that's the way the world should be.

Speaker 2 I think if you just had a litmus test around, if you just had AI say who's been most consistent and strongest on policy and who's the smartest, I think

Speaker 2 Senator Klobuchar would be right there and I think Governor Whitmer would be right there. And or

Speaker 2 we would have had Secretary Clinton as president. I think unfortunately we're in such a looksist,

Speaker 2 sexist

Speaker 2 nation when it comes to the top job that I'm just focused on who can get elected.

Speaker 2 And I hate giving in to the worst angels of our society, but I think that another huge feather in his cap is going to be this,

Speaker 2 it's not only the Prop 50, but again, who was first in political podcasts? I think it was Senator Cruz, actually, but the governor is the first one.

Speaker 3 On our side.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was.
The governor was the first Democrat. And not only that, what did he do? He brought on Charlie Kirk.
And of course, all the Democrats on the far left. Why are you platforming him?

Speaker 2 Hair on fire. Smart move.
Smart move to bring on these guys. Pulls them towards the center, makes them more electable.

Speaker 2 I don't even think he's focused on, I think he's playing the long game. I don't think he's focused on the primary.
I think he's already focused on the general.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a tough primary, but

Speaker 2 there'll be, and not only that, if I had to bet on any one person, it would be TBD. I think it's someone we're not even talking about right now.
But anyways, look, podcasting elected Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 And if you look at

Speaker 2 they used to think it was knocking on doors. I found that knocking on doors, I've only done it it once.
I did it for Secretary Clinton in 2016.

Speaker 2 That's when I knew she was going to lose because I had about, I was in a neighborhood that would describe as lower middle class in Florida,

Speaker 2 kind of inland a bit, and

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 two-thirds, two-thirds black families, one-third white families. And the white families, half of them I banged on their door, pretty much slammed the door in my face.
They were so pro-Trump.

Speaker 2 And then in the Democrat households, and especially the black families, would invite me in, couldn't be nicer.

Speaker 2 And, oh, yeah, we're definitely voting for Secretary Clinton. And then I would ask them,

Speaker 2 do you know where your polling place is? And they'd look at each other and they'd say, no. And I'm like, they're not going to vote.
This was pretty late in the game.

Speaker 2 I'm like, they're not going to vote. They like her, but they didn't have that.
Having the door slammed in your face is energy. That means that person is going to vote for the other person.

Speaker 2 The technology that clearly no longer works is door knocking. Supposedly it was 10 to 1,

Speaker 2 Secretary Clinton or Vice President Harris to Trump and all the swing states on door knocking in her favor. That technology doesn't work.

Speaker 2 And then the next technology that everybody thought worked was cable news, right? And local news. And what it ends up is that the average viewer of an MSNBC show is a seven-year-old white woman.

Speaker 2 And guess what? She's already figured out who she's voting for. Whereas the average listener of a podcaster, if you were going to distill it down to a person, it's a 34-year-old mixed-race male.

Speaker 2 And he's a swing voter because he votes based on economic issues, specifically who he thinks will be better for the economic well-being of him and his family. And that issue.

Speaker 2 ping-pongs back and forth between Republicans and Democrats based on who has a more compelling economic plan. It shouldn't, by the way, folks.

Speaker 2 Democrats consistently grow jobs faster and the economy consistently performs better under Democrats. But anyways, it's it's another talk show.

Speaker 2 But podcasting, the reason why we can call literally any, when I started this Joey Bagadonitz operation

Speaker 2 seven, eight years ago, I couldn't get, I couldn't get arrested, much less get, I had trouble getting my neighbors to come on my podcast. And now we can call any presidential candidate.

Speaker 2 They will come on within the week. Any of them.

Speaker 2 And except for Mom Dami, I think he was scared of us for some reason. I think he was the first person who turned us down.

Speaker 2 Anyway, that because they realize this is when he's mayor, maybe he'll change his mind. This is the new medium.

Speaker 2 And if you think about, you know, this, this pod gets 150 to 200,000 downloads per episode, another 100,000, call it a quarter of a million impressions every pod.

Speaker 2 You do two weeks, that's 2,70% of the core demographic or say 70% of 200,000 or 140,000 are in the core demo.

Speaker 2 There are maybe three or four shows in all the cable news that get more in the core demo than that. And we're not the biggest political podcast.
It just gives you a sense of how powerful

Speaker 2 this medium has become. So absolutely makes a ton of sense for them.

Speaker 2 And not only that, the format is, I just saw this clip, and I hate to say this again because I like her as a person and I'm rooting for her and I think she's a good journalist, but I just saw a clip from Abby Phillips where I forget the woman from the Young Turks was arguing with some guy about Mamdon.

Speaker 3 Johanna Kasperan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 On Abby's show. And I literally thought, this is the equivalent of an ice raid.
It is just so depressing and disgusting, these two people screaming at each other. It's like,

Speaker 2 they should call that show How to Feel Stupider. Watch this and feel more stupid.

Speaker 3 I'm sure that'll be in the new round of CNN marketing.

Speaker 2 Well, it's just they've unfortunately the algorithms pick up on it. The algorithms love that kind of conflict.
It's like the algorithms are like a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Speaker 2 They're drawn towards movement and violence. And you hear two,

Speaker 2 I assume, intelligent people just screaming at each other. No respect for each other, no decorum.
And this great news brand is a fucking food fight. Jesus Christ, CNN.

Speaker 2 No wonder your ratings are down 34 fucking percent.

Speaker 3 Well, anyways.

Speaker 3 Can I say two things about what you mentioned? So, first of all, on the door knocking front,

Speaker 3 one of my,

Speaker 3 I guess, recent, because it was in the last year, but online back and forth with Charlie Kirk

Speaker 3 was about door knocking because I boasted on air about that 10 to 1 ratio. And he basically just owned me and was like, it doesn't matter, Jessica.
You don't know it yet, but it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 And lo and behold, he was correct. The second thing I wanted to ask you about vis-a-vis podcasting is the length of these conversations because

Speaker 3 you see a network like the Midas Touch Network, which which regularly is the number one pod, you know, ahead of Joe Rogan, and their interviews are all capped to kind of 12 to 15 minutes.

Speaker 3 We've been doing a lot more of this on the Raging Matters YouTube channel. Please subscribe.
We would love to have you as part of the community.

Speaker 3 But that is the amount of time that people actually want to be paying attention or can pay attention.

Speaker 3 And so this idea of loading up their feeds with hour-long conversations, sometimes two, three hour-long conversations, does not not jibe with the way that American life works right now and also our diversity of interests that people want to listen to a political conversation.

Speaker 3 They also, you know, have a favorite person who talks about cooking. They have a books podcast.
They have a fitness podcast that they're into.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 what do you think about that with the lengths? Because this is a problem. We've talked about this with politicians that they go on for too long.

Speaker 3 And sometimes, you know, making a more impactful 10 minutes is going to have a lot more value to you than 35 minutes where we gleaned two things that were actually important out of the whole

Speaker 3 diatribe.

Speaker 2 One of the things I like about podcasting is that the vibe is,

Speaker 2 and that is on social media, I don't give people the benefit of the doubt. And it's one of the things I don't like about myself as a person.

Speaker 2 And the algorithms have trained me to be a terse asshole in social media. And I don't like that.
Because

Speaker 2 I don't aspire to be that person. The reason I really enjoy podcasting is, generally speaking, the vibe on podcasting is you give the guests the benefit of the doubt.
You don't get in their face.

Speaker 2 You don't try and embarrass them. You don't look for your gotcha moment on Fox or CNN that you hope will go viral.
You let them run, right? You don't interrupt them or you don't interrupt them a lot.

Speaker 2 It's not a food fight. And the format is it can go an hour, sometimes two hours.
Lex Friedman broke new ground here. So did Joe Rogan.
Two and three hour podcast. Let your guest

Speaker 2 get through what they're saying.

Speaker 2 As much as you want to take a clip and take it out of context, give them the benefit of the doubt. Joe Rogan gets a lot of shit for spreading misinformation, which I think he has done.

Speaker 2 But he also, in my view,

Speaker 2 he gives his guests the benefit of the doubt. When I was asked if Vice President Harris should go on Joe Rogan, I'm like, there's nothing,

Speaker 2 if she had to take a train there, or hitchhike there, she should do it.

Speaker 2 There's no better use of her time to get down there because Joe, who has, I would describe as center-right, or some people would say very red-pilled, he gives his guests the benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 2 He doesn't want to embarrass them for a moment. And I really like that about podcasting.
And it foots well to politicians. The problem with

Speaker 2 these politicians, though, is that they're worried about saying something off color, which is exactly the wrong attitude right now.

Speaker 2 If they're out there being human, speaking like a real fucking person, and occasionally say something indelicate, it doesn't matter anymore because Trump has given them cloud cover.

Speaker 2 But they were born of a genre where you needed to be starched, battle-tested, politically correct, offend as few people as possible. And how do you do that? You say nothing.

Speaker 2 You say nothing of any real meaning

Speaker 2 other than rhetorical flourish. We need to be focused on the people and we need to take the political heat down.
Okay, fine.

Speaker 2 Now what?

Speaker 2 What happens on these podcasts, and quite frankly, we've seen it in our numbers, these guys brighten up a room by fucking leaving it.

Speaker 2 This conversation here will get much more engagement, much more downloads than the top contenders for president. Because when they come on,

Speaker 2 it's like, you know, it's like dogs watching television. It's just sort of like, okay, I know there's something going on there, but I don't know.
Like, they don't say anything. They don't.

Speaker 2 I do appreciate occasionally Newsom will mix it up. I think some of the Republican candidates aren't scared to mix it up a little bit, but they don't sound like real people.

Speaker 2 And you could go to their website and see the same goddamn speech over and over and over again. Also, the other thing about politics is it does get

Speaker 2 a lot of viewership,

Speaker 2 but advertisers avoid it because it's very controversial. The most heartening thing I've seen is the guys from Midas Touch, they're an inspiration.

Speaker 2 I love how they just came out of nowhere, young group of people, getting huge download numbers. I would argue that

Speaker 2 the podcast ecosystem right now is sending very positive signals for the Democratic side of the aisle because Republicans have dominated podcasts for the last decade.

Speaker 2 And in the last year, you have seen some very, very vibrant Democratic voices radically ascend to the top of their respective category. I think it's very encouraging.
But be clear, folks, this is.

Speaker 2 I'm talking my own book a little bit, but I've also, you know, I've been in this game for a while.

Speaker 2 this is the new arbiter of the next president. This will be it is podcast and who can articulate actual fucking programs, Democrats.
Your thoughts, Jess.

Speaker 3 Actual fucking programs, Democrats. Final thought.

Speaker 2 Final thought.

Speaker 3 There we go. Let's take a break.
Let's take a break.

Speaker 2 There you go. Thanks, Jess.

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Speaker 2 Welcome back. Before we go, Vice President Harris says she's not done yet.

Speaker 2 In an interview over the weekend, Harris told the BBC she's possibly eyeing another run for president in 2028, saying she still believes America will see a woman in the White House in her grandniece's lifetime for sure.

Speaker 2 She brushed off polls, putting her behind everyone from Gavin Newson to Dwayne The Rock Johnson and blasted Trump as a tyrant who's proven her warnings right. Got to give it to her.

Speaker 2 She was right about that. Her comments come as former Biden press secretary Corine Jean-Pierre publicly cuts ties with the party, calling its treatment of Biden a betrayal.

Speaker 2 Okay. She is now an independent, saying Democratic leaders abandoned a decent man who led through crisis, a very decent old man who had no business running for president again.

Speaker 2 Anyways, thoughts, Jess,

Speaker 2 the comeback. What do you think?

Speaker 3 I didn't read her comments as being as suggestive of her actually doing this as people wanted us to be. It was an interview with the BBC.

Speaker 3 British journalists are awesome always,

Speaker 3 or I should say usually, maybe not always, and was really. pushing her, but it felt like more of the same.
Like, I'm not done yet. I'm not closing any doors.

Speaker 3 You know, I'm here to talk about this now and hopefully sell more copies of my book. I don't think that Kamala Harris is going to be on the 2028 stage.
I just don't.

Speaker 3 I think that it is going to be very hard for anybody

Speaker 3 closely associated, at least with Biden to be the candidate in 28. And it is going to be a race.

Speaker 3 for these potential or these hopeful nominees to figure out a way to backtrack on comments that they may have made in the past about Biden's fitness or ability to do the job for a second term.

Speaker 2 Do you think that's good for Newsom? Do you think that's going to haunt him?

Speaker 3 I think the fact that he's out there so much right now and does have Prop 50 going for him, and then he'll find something else, right?

Speaker 3 He's going to find another issue that he can lead on is going to go a long way to undoing that.

Speaker 3 But, you know, Newsom's going to have to deal with the record in California just like all of them are going to. Josh Shapiro has a great record to defend.
He'll be out there doing it.

Speaker 3 Whitmer, Westmore, et cetera. So I'm not that concerned about Kamala being the nominee.
But this Corrine Jean-Pierre book tour,

Speaker 3 I'm sure that you haven't seen as much of it as I have because they love to shove it in my face on the five, how badly it's going. But the easy thing is, is that I also think it's as bad as they do.

Speaker 3 I mean, she...

Speaker 3 is being met with hostility in even the safest of places. Like the view is dressing her down about this.

Speaker 3 Her New Yorker interview, I know you don't have a ton of time on your hands, but if you want to see a proverbial murder, go and read her New Yorker interview.

Speaker 3 It gets revealed that the subheading of her book, which was A Look Inside a Broken White House, she says this about Trump and not about the Biden White House, even though the book is about her time as press secretary and what happened in, you know, those final throes of the campaign, and how offended she was that they would treat Biden so badly.

Speaker 3 Anyway, it's a total head scratcher, and I don't know what would be next for her.

Speaker 2 She worked for a narcissist who put his own ego ahead of the country. Full stop.
Good man.

Speaker 2 His legacy will be buried next.

Speaker 2 Ruth Bader Ginsburg and

Speaker 2 Senator Feinstein as people whose poor judgment and ego

Speaker 2 cost America dearly and absolutely put a terrible punctuation mark on their on their legacy. The vice president's book was not well received.
It was basically the reviews I read were,

Speaker 2 you know, why basically she should have titled it, Why Was Everyone Else's Fault That I Lost?

Speaker 2 And so I don't,

Speaker 2 you're, you're right. I think it's really a shame because if you look at the Biden presidency, it was a successful presidency.

Speaker 3 Legislatively. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The Infrastructure Act,

Speaker 2 the pulling us back from COVID, the economy did well.

Speaker 2 You know, I think he doesn't get nearly enough credit for

Speaker 2 October the 7th, his response. I think it was two carrier strike forces immediately deployed to the Mediterranean that told Iran to sit the fuck down.

Speaker 2 I mean, people forget that Hamas was Hamas never thought they could defeat the IDF.

Speaker 2 What they were hoping to do was provide inspiration, and some people would argue it was pre-planned that other entities, including including Iran, including Hezbollah, would start a multi-front war against Israel, which theoretically could have been successful.

Speaker 2 And instead, Biden immediately, no questions asked, deployed the firepower of Great Britain and France in the form of our U.S. carrier strike forces,

Speaker 2 specifically the Gerald R. Ford.

Speaker 2 And no one was going to fuck with those weapons of war.

Speaker 2 And Biden, no questions asked, and he took a lot of shit from the far left wing of his party for his unwavering, what I thought was unwavering support, at least initially.

Speaker 2 And then they started getting mealy mouth. And then they started trying to have it both ways.
Anyways,

Speaker 2 I don't mean to relitigate.

Speaker 3 People remember the last thing that you did, right? That's 100%. So maybe in time, but I don't, you know, he's older.

Speaker 2 I always like to draw from our conversations a hack, a life hack.

Speaker 2 And one life hack I have, I think, discovered is that there's a really interesting study done on men who are getting and women who are getting colonoscopies.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 what they did was they asked people how pleasant or unpleasant the colonoscopy was when they left, when basically it was 30 minutes and it's fairly uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 And then the other ones, they did it for 40 minutes, but the last 10 minutes, they did nothing. And the people who went 40 minutes, but the last 10 minutes, kind of nothing happened.

Speaker 2 It wasn't uncomfortable at all, said it was a much better colonoscopy. In other words, the last 10 minutes of anything, as you just pointed out, have a disproportionate amount of impact.

Speaker 2 And so what is the lesson? When you leave a job, you want to be gracious. Try and resist the temptation to stick up the middle finger on your way out.

Speaker 2 I've had employees, I've seen people who were outstanding, worked so hard, and they weren't nice to their coworkers on the way out, and it literally ruins their legacy.

Speaker 2 Also, when you're at a social event, when you're at a party, you want to be super fucking gracious and charming the last five minutes. That is everything.

Speaker 2 Go around, thank people, you know, try and end on a really positive note. And also in media, I will cut interviews off early when I know we could go another five or 10 good minutes.

Speaker 2 If there's a really good moment, I'm like, that's where we end it.

Speaker 3 I got to be remembered for that. So I'm not going to roll the dice into another five or 10 minutes.
There you go. There you go.
You want your high note. You want to be the good colonoscopy.

Speaker 2 That's exactly right. But I didn't figure that out till later in life.
The last five or ten minutes are kind of as important as the first,

Speaker 2 the first, you know, five years at a job, the first three hours on a date, the first, you know, the first three hours

Speaker 2 you're at a social event.

Speaker 3 Anyways. So is Irish goodbyeing okay? Because my husband likes to do that and I take like 900 hours to say goodbye.
And in our, if we ever get divorced, that will be in the papers.

Speaker 3 The irreconcilable differences will be our exit strategy.

Speaker 2 So this is a do as I say, not as I do, because I am like your husband.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I cannot handle it. I've never seen you do it.

Speaker 2 I like to just melt into the night. But here's the thing: I already have money and I'm close to death, so I'm not trying to build a career.

Speaker 2 Everybody, this is advice for people who are trying to build their careers. It's too late for me, Jess.

Speaker 2 It's too late for me. I'm trying to help the young people out there.
All right. Anyways, I think that's the note we want to end on.
And by the way, Jess, you are just killing it.

Speaker 2 You are just killing it. I hope that all of this isn't taking a toll on you because you are going behind enemy lines and you are just kicking ass and taking names.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I thrive off of how much people hate me.
There you go. What I've moved on.

Speaker 2 It's balanced out by how many people love you and appreciate you, which I also see online.

Speaker 1 That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to Raging Moderates.

Speaker 2 Jess, have a great rest of the week.

Speaker 3 You too.

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