'Who's that good for?': Maddow connects the dots on Donald Trump's behavior toward Russia

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Speaker 5 Thanks, Juan Home, for joining us this hour. Senator Corey Booker is here with us tonight live.
I'm really looking forward to speaking with him. Former U.S.

Speaker 5 Ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, is here with us live. We've got eyes on potentially some developing court proceedings live tonight.
It's just, it's a really busy Friday night.

Speaker 5 There's a lot to get to. I am really glad you are here.
And I will be honest,

Speaker 5 I'm feeling a little fired up tonight.

Speaker 5 I'm, what's that phrase? I'm feeling,

Speaker 5 I feel like I'm loaded for bear, right?

Speaker 5 So we're just, I'm just gonna do this. I don't care.
I don't care. Let's just do it.

Speaker 5 Let's just, let's just start right in with something that Republicans really, really, really do not want to talk about.

Speaker 5 And part of the way you can tell they don't want to talk about it is because when they get asked about it, they turn pink. They stammer.
They stomp their feet and put the microphone down.

Speaker 5 They do not want to talk about this at all.

Speaker 5 Republican Congressman Scott Fitzgerald of Wisconsin, for example, does not want to talk about this at all.

Speaker 5 You personally,

Speaker 5 personally, believe me that the new

Speaker 7 elector of Ukraine is a dictator and started the war against Russia.

Speaker 8 No, no, I don't. No, I was, like I said, I voted for the first tranche.

Speaker 8 No, Ukraine didn't start the war.

Speaker 6 Why do we let him go? go?

Speaker 8 You know, I'm not going to.

Speaker 7 To Trump.

Speaker 8 To Donald Trump, no, no.

Speaker 6 Why? Because he stood there breaking everything.

Speaker 6 Use your voice.

Speaker 8 I don't think that the president's goals are not what everybody wants, which is to end the war, right? End the war.

Speaker 6 So if you don't want to end the war,

Speaker 8 if you don't want to end the war, then you're in a different position.

Speaker 8 You've got to have some type of negotiated end to this.

Speaker 8 He's certainly pushing hard for that to happen.

Speaker 6 Would you do that without him?

Speaker 8 I can't speak over everybody. And if and if Zelensky, Zelensky needs to be in the room.

Speaker 6 He absolutely needs to be.

Speaker 6 I don't disagree with that.

Speaker 8 I don't disagree with the idea that he needs to be. He's probably part of the solution, right?

Speaker 6 So I'm not sure.

Speaker 8 I'm not sure exactly what that's going to look like, but

Speaker 8 I guess it's a good thing that the negotiations will continue and hopefully we'll end up in a position where the entire conflict

Speaker 6 comes to a halt on a negotiating level.

Speaker 8 Matthew.

Speaker 5 Matthew!

Speaker 5 Matthew, there's a Matthew here somewhere. Matthew, please tell me you want to talk about like potholes or prostitution,

Speaker 5 pot legalization, anything about this Putin stuff. This stuff is making me very pink.
I do not want to talk about this stuff. Let's talk about something else.

Speaker 5 Republican Congressman Rich McCormick in Georgia, same problem.

Speaker 11 I would like to know your opinion and your stance on the current situation created by the president, wherein he is now saying that Ukraine is responsible for the war that Russia has initiated and I would like to know

Speaker 11 I would like to know if you as a congressman will get with your fellow congresspeople and stand up to the lies that are being told to the Americans and I would also like to know if you believe that the 80-year-old alliance that we have with our European allies is strong enough to withstand the attack from our White House because this is a dangerous, dangerous precedent.

Speaker 11 You, as a serviceman, should help us.

Speaker 12 Zelensky, I think, is an honest broker of what he's trying to accomplish. He wants to save his nation.
And I want Ukraine to win.

Speaker 12 And President Trump said he wants re-region, and I know you're going to get.

Speaker 4 This is what he said.

Speaker 12 But it's in our best interest. It's in our best interest, in my opinion.
And by the way, this splits the Republican Party down the middle. Half the Republicans support

Speaker 12 I have repeatedly spoken up on this.

Speaker 4 Repeatedly.

Speaker 12 I'm speaking about it right now, and I voted for Ukraine.

Speaker 12 And I have voted for Ukraine support every single time.

Speaker 5 You guys,

Speaker 5 I will turn this town hall right around. I'm putting my microphone down.

Speaker 5 This keeps happening to Republican members of Congress in their Republican districts and to Republican senators in their red states.

Speaker 5 Republican Congressman Mike Kennedy in Utah, Republican Congressman Kevin Hearn in Oklahoma, Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski in Alaska.

Speaker 4 Do you share his sentiment? Do you think something should be happening in Ukraine?

Speaker 6 I don't know that the president said that.

Speaker 6 I knew he was going to say that. I knew he was going to say that.

Speaker 6 It just came out today or something. Oh, my gosh.
So, as soon as we started the war, it's far as I can tell if

Speaker 6 we started the war. Yes, yes.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Pershily, do you support Ukraine or Russia?

Speaker 4 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 13 No, it's not easy, ma'am. It's not easy.

Speaker 4 It's not easy.

Speaker 4 So, is Zelensky a dictator, yes or no?

Speaker 13 That part, I have a problem with that statement.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 4 Did Ukraine start the war?

Speaker 4 Well, it's simple.

Speaker 4 Did Ukraine start the war? Yes or no?

Speaker 4 Did Ukraine start the war?

Speaker 4 I want to know where you stand

Speaker 4 in Ukraine or Russia. We have been supporting Zelensky for years now.

Speaker 14 It's three years since

Speaker 4 Putin started this. Now we're isolating, or he is isolating America.

Speaker 4 He's calling names about his family. Where do you stand?

Speaker 13 Let me just say this. This is not the tactic that I would use to try to solve the problem.

Speaker 15 I would like to express my dismay over the president's stance on Ukraine, including, as everyone knows, his outright falsehoods. And I'm curious,

Speaker 15 I imagine I know what your views are, but more significantly,

Speaker 15 what can the legislative branch do and what do they have the stomach for to support a peaceful resolution that involves the leaders of Ukraine and not just Trump and Putin?

Speaker 15 That's my question.

Speaker 6 Yeah, well

Speaker 15 I think I think we were all

Speaker 15 more than a little bit

Speaker 15 stunned,

Speaker 15 really

Speaker 15 concerned about just

Speaker 15 this radical switch. I mean, it was literally last week,

Speaker 15 you know, the President

Speaker 15 was

Speaker 15 speaking about how he was going to work to end the war in Ukraine.

Speaker 15 I think we would all like to see a peaceful, or we would like to see a peaceful and positive outcome to the bloodshed after these years. And so

Speaker 15 to now...

Speaker 15 to now hear President Trump's comments, very derisive comments about President Zelensky today,

Speaker 15 I felt were

Speaker 15 uncalled for and unfortunate.

Speaker 15 It is wrong to suggest that somehow or other Ukraine

Speaker 15 started this war, asked for this war, but

Speaker 15 I think

Speaker 15 I think we're all

Speaker 15 kind of scratching our heads at

Speaker 15 how quickly the conversation has gone from being one that is supportive of President Zelensky to now being

Speaker 15 more supportive of Putin.

Speaker 5 This radical switch. Senator Lisa Burkowski of Alaska in a town hall with her constituents last week.

Speaker 5 She says we're all scratching our heads at how quickly the conversation in the White House has now gone from being supportive of Zelensky to now being supportive of Putin instead.

Speaker 5 Scratching our heads.

Speaker 5 Republicans are having a hard time with this. They try to move on to the next question.
They express annoyance with their own constituents for asking about it.

Speaker 5 They get brusque and short in their answers. Or like Senator Lisa Murkowski, they just purport to be really perplexed, really confused, really scratching my head.
They have a hard time with this.

Speaker 5 All the Republicans do, especially the guy at the top.

Speaker 16 You just mentioned Putin, though, and this has been this controversy of the past week. Can you say yes or no, whether you have talked to Vladimir Putin since you stopped being president?

Speaker 17 Well, I don't comment on that, but I have a relationship.

Speaker 17 You did talk about that. I don't talk about it.
No, I don't talk about that.

Speaker 16 You talk about talking to Netanyahu.

Speaker 5 I don't talk about that. I don't talk about that.
I don't ever say. Why don't you talk about it?

Speaker 5 I don't ever say about it. Why not? What does that mean? I mean, that was right before the election.

Speaker 5 But it continued after the election. And people get so mad when I play this tape.
People get very angry with me when I play this tape. You know, honestly, bring it on.

Speaker 5 It makes me appreciate it all the more because clearly, at least it strikes a nerve.

Speaker 14 Watch.

Speaker 5 Have you talked to President Putin? No, I have not. You haven't talked to President Putin since you've been elected?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 5 Well, I don't want to say that.

Speaker 4 but I haven't spoken to him recently.

Speaker 5 So you've spoken to President Putin since you've been elected.

Speaker 4 I don't want to say that. I don't want to say anything about that.

Speaker 18 i want to not talk to vlogmas

Speaker 4 who have you spoken to him i don't want to say so you've already spoken of vladimir putin i don't want to say that

Speaker 5 i don't you want to i don't want to say i don't want to say i can't say why can't you say

Speaker 5 why can't you say what precludes you from saying

Speaker 5 listen it's friday night let's just do this let's just cut to the chase here let's do a little look-see at the landscape to see why exactly it is so so hard

Speaker 5 for Republicans to deal with this topic. What exactly is so hard for Republicans to talk about? What exactly is it that we are doing, up to and including switching sides in a war?

Speaker 5 But it's not limited to that.

Speaker 5 And it's all things that don't seem like good news for the United States. That makes them particularly hard to talk about.

Speaker 5 Nevertheless, with Donald Trump back in the White House, we keep doing these things relentlessly and urgently, and they all cut in the same direction.

Speaker 5 And it's really hard for Republicans to explain because of what it obviously means.

Speaker 5 It's clear why they do not want to talk about this stuff, and it gets all the more clear when you just line this stuff up. Let me show you what I mean.
Here's one.

Speaker 5 Donald Trump's handpicked Attorney General. She gets sworn in to lead the U.S.
Justice Department on her first day on the job. What is the first thing she does?

Speaker 4 Headline.

Speaker 5 U.S. cuts task forces on foreign influence and Russian sanctions.
Quote, in a memo sent to staff Wednesday, U.S.

Speaker 5 Attorney General Pam Bondi revealed she had disbanded the Foreign Influence Task Force, a unit dedicated to investigating violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

Speaker 5 Bondi did not elaborate, but figures on the Republican Party's conspiratorial far right have accused the government of abusing FARA to unfairly target political operatives like Paul Manafort, Trump's 2016 campaign chair, who was indicted in a probe into Russian influence in that year's U.S.

Speaker 5 election. Also on Wednesday, the day of her swearing in, Bondi disbanded Task Force KleptoCapture,

Speaker 5 an initiative started in 2022 to enforce sanctions against Russia.

Speaker 5 Who's all that good for?

Speaker 5 Shutting down the Foreign Influence Task Force, shutting down enforcement of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and getting rid of the task force that enforces sanctions against Russia.

Speaker 5 Who are all those things good for? Why do we do those things? And so urgently, her first day on the job.

Speaker 5 Here's another one, which happened that same day.

Speaker 5 Quote, in a little notice directive on her first day in office, Attorney General Pam Bondi ordered a halt to a years-old federal law enforcement effort to combat secret influence campaigns by China, Russia, and other adversaries that try to curry favor and sow chaos in American politics.

Speaker 5 Buried on the fourth page of one of 14 policy memos Bondi issued Wednesday, the order disbands the FBI's foreign influence task force. Last year,

Speaker 5 Justice Department prosecutors and FBI agents exposed an alleged scheme in which Russia-backed media funneled $10 million to a conservative U.S.

Speaker 5 media company that hired prominent right-wing influencers.

Speaker 5 Here's how the New York Times bannered that one bluntly. Quote, Trump dismantles government fight against foreign influence operations.

Speaker 5 Dozens of employees who had been working to fight foreign foreign interference in U.S. elections have been reassigned or forced out.

Speaker 5 That includes not only the FBI, but also CISA, the cybersecurity division at Homeland Security,

Speaker 5 which we soon learned

Speaker 5 the president's top campaign donor had installed a 19-year-old operative who reportedly personally operates websites in Russia and who has been associated with multiple criminal cyber hacking gangs.

Speaker 5 That's who the president's top campaign donor installed at CISA, giving him full access to systems and data at the U.S. government's cybersecurity agency.

Speaker 5 A 19-year-old kid with ties to Russia and cybercrime.

Speaker 5 Who's that good for?

Speaker 5 How do you explain to your constituents who that's good for? and why we are doing that as a country.

Speaker 5 And what else? What else is hard to explain to ye-oldie constituents when it comes to that radical switch in the U.S. government that Lisa Murkowski described? How about this?

Speaker 5 Headline, CIA plans largest mass firing in nearly 50 years.

Speaker 5 Well, that's good for someone. Who's that good for?

Speaker 5 That came right after this. Oh, Trump's new hand-picked CIA director sent a list of CIA employees to the White House in an unclassified email.

Speaker 5 Quote, current officials confirmed that the CIA had sent the names of employees to the Office of Personnel Management, complying with an executive order signed by President Trump.

Speaker 5 Senator Mark Warner, top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, wrote that the sharing of the officers' names was a, quote, disastrous national security development.

Speaker 5 One former agency officer called the reporting of the names in an unclassified email a, quote, counterintelligence disaster. Ah, yes, a disaster for the United States and for U.S.

Speaker 5 intelligence in particular. But very good news for someone.

Speaker 5 Hey, speaking of things that ought to be classified,

Speaker 5 headline, how Trump's security clearances order could make the US vulnerable.

Speaker 5 The plan to give temporary security clearances without background checks opens the door to breaches and espionage, experts say.

Speaker 5 Giving out security clearances without background checks that look for things like criminal entanglements, lots of debt, anything that they could blackmail you over, or any contacts with foreign governments to make sure that you're not, you know, secretly working for, we're not doing the background checks anymore.

Speaker 5 Trump just has ordered that the classified material be made available to whoever he says with no checks. That doesn't seem like good news for the United States, but again, it's good news for someone.

Speaker 5 How about when they decided that the first agency they would destroy would be USAID? Who cheered the loudest for that?

Speaker 5 Russia welcomes USAID cuts, calls agency machine for interfering.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it was fantastic news for someone. No one was seen to benefit more or to be more loudly cheering it on

Speaker 5 than Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 5 And that was before the specific news confirmed today that among the projects Trump is explicitly and specifically turning off right now, this week, is the program by which the U.S.

Speaker 5 helps Ukraine keep its electric grid up and running.

Speaker 5 Even though Russia has repeatedly targeted that electric grid throughout the war, because Russia's idea of how it wants to win the unprovoked war it declared on our ally is to make the civilian population, including kids and the elderly and hospital patients and everyone, their best idea for how to prosecute that war is to cause them to freeze to death by bombing the electric grid in February.

Speaker 5 So more than any other evident targeting, they have targeted

Speaker 5 the electric grid that serves the civilian population in Ukraine.

Speaker 5 It is the United States that has helped Ukraine masterfully keep the power grid up despite those repeated onslaughts by Russia.

Speaker 5 until this week when Trump just cut it off.

Speaker 5 Which is good news for someone, right?

Speaker 5 President dressed up the defense secretary he hand-picked off the cast of the Fox and Friends weekend show, put him in a bright blue suit and sent him to Europe, where he volunteered unasked that Ukraine can't be expected to keep all of its own territory.

Speaker 5 He said that would be quote unrealistic. It would be quote unrealistic to not let Russia take parts of Ukraine.
He then volunteered unasked that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO.

Speaker 5 Now we've got pro-Trump Republican senators saying,

Speaker 5 yeah, not just Ukraine won't be allowed in NATO, we ought to get out of NATO too,

Speaker 5 which of course would collapse NATO.

Speaker 5 Who would that most benefit? For whom would that be really, really good news?

Speaker 5 Donald Trump says, let's let Russia back into the G7.

Speaker 5 Donald Trump is reportedly preparing right now for his own big in-person summit with Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 5 Donald Trump already started high-level meetings between the Russian and US governments, including

Speaker 5 an inexplicable three-and-a-half-hour meeting specifically between the president's real estate friend and Vladimir Putin himself.

Speaker 5 Steve Witkoff came back from that meeting and,

Speaker 4 how'd that go?

Speaker 5 Hmm, went pretty well for someone. Headline, parroting Putin and Trump.
Witkoff says Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine.

Speaker 5 Headline, Trump envoy can't name a single concession Russia will make in peace deal.

Speaker 5 What does it seem like is going on here?

Speaker 5 Imagine if a foreign adversary,

Speaker 5 imagine if the Putin government somehow

Speaker 5 could just do a thought experiment. Imagine they could somehow exert control or influence over the government of the United States.
What do you think the Putin government would have the U.S.

Speaker 5 government do if he could control it? What kind of headlines would you expect to see about the operations of our government under that kind of a scenario?

Speaker 5 And what would you expect the news out of the Oval Office and the White House to look like on a day like today?

Speaker 5 At the start of this made-for-TV debacle at the White House today, where the President and Vice President J.D.

Speaker 5 Vance screamed at our ally Vladimir Zelensky and berated him with Russian government talking points.

Speaker 5 When this happened today in Washington, there's a couple things that stuck out to me. First of all, at the very start of this photo op, they had all the press in the room.

Speaker 5 Trump was asked right at the outset when he last spoke with Vladimir Putin. He said,

Speaker 5 A couple of days ago, which was news because the U.S. government had said nothing about Donald Trump speaking with Vladimir Putin a couple of days ago.

Speaker 5 So that's new. He used to say, I'm not allowed to talk about that.
Now he's admitting that he talks to Putin all the time, even when the U.S.

Speaker 5 government doesn't release any information about those calls like they do with all other foreign leaders.

Speaker 4 Second

Speaker 5 was the truly bizarre revelation that Russian state-controlled media, for some reason, was in the Oval Office today when this scene happened with Volodymyr Zelensky.

Speaker 5 Now, to be clear, the Trump White House will not allow the Associated Press or Reuters into the Oval Office to cover White House events anymore, but somehow TAS media, Kremlin-controlled Russian state media, somehow made their way into the Oval Office for this berating of the Ukrainian president today, and Russian state media was in the Oval Office somehow live streaming from the event.

Speaker 5 Afterwards, look at this bizarre statement from the White House attributed to an unnamed White House official, quote, TASS was not on the approved list of media for today's pool.

Speaker 5 As soon as it came to the attention of press office staff that he was in the Oval, he was escorted out by the press secretary. He is not on the approved list for the press conference.

Speaker 5 It's not on the approved approved list. We have no idea how he got in there.

Speaker 5 To live stream for Kremlin-controlled state media, the president and vice president of the United States screaming at Ukraine's president and berating him with Russian talking points.

Speaker 5 We don't know how the Kremlin guy got in here. It was weird.
He just wandered in. I mean, people do.

Speaker 5 It's a free country. People do just wander into the Oval Office.

Speaker 5 A very radical thing is happening in our country.

Speaker 5 It is not only radical in the sense that it is a large directional change, right? Switching sides in a war, now standing against our allies of the last 80 years, now siding with Russia instead.

Speaker 5 I mean, no longer siding with the free world, now siding with the authoritarian governments of the world. Like, it's not just radical in that it is a 180-degree directional change.

Speaker 5 It is also radical in the sense that it is really radically unpopular with the American people.

Speaker 5 I mean, you can see that in the polling. Quinnipiak poll this month.
Should the U.S. trust Vladimir Putin? Yes, 9%.
No, 81%.

Speaker 5 Here's another one, the Economist Yukov poll out this month. Do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of Vladimir Putin? The American public say favorable 11%, unfavorable 78%.

Speaker 5 The American people are not clamoring for us to ally ourselves with Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 5 Right?

Speaker 5 You can see it very clearly in the polling.

Speaker 5 And it begs the question, well, okay, who wants this? Who voted for this? Why are we doing this? If the American people don't want this, why are we doing it?

Speaker 5 Who says we should do this?

Speaker 5 Who's making us do this?

Speaker 5 And why?

Speaker 5 And for whose benefit?

Speaker 5 You can see the same dynamic in the bewildered and outraged questions that Americans are asking their Republican members of Congress at these town halls, which Republicans are now realizing they better not do anymore of.

Speaker 5 They're asking their Republican senators and their Republican members of Congress, what the heck is going on? What is going on here?

Speaker 5 But let's be clear. I mean, what's what's going on here is pretty obvious at this point.

Speaker 5 Because this is all really good news for somebody.

Speaker 5 It's not the American people for whom it's good. It's not our allies for whom it's good.

Speaker 5 And this is nothing that anyone campaigned on, and it is nothing that anyone has any political mandate for at all. And so, why are we doing it?

Speaker 5 And what are we going to do about it? That's what we have to decide.

Speaker 5 And that's next.

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Speaker 19 Well, what has happened at the Oval Office has been not what we expected it to be. We knew that communication with Trump and his team is going to be difficult.
We did not expect that.

Speaker 19 We did not expect what we have seen.

Speaker 19 It's unimaginable that the leader of the free world, the leader of the biggest democracy in the world, would attack the President of the country that has been attacked, while at the same time conducting negotiations in a very friendly tone with the country that is the aggressor, that is the Russian side.

Speaker 19 We definitely did not see that coming.

Speaker 19 Even though we expected the communication between Trump and Zelensky to be tougher, that is not what we expected.

Speaker 19 So it is, of course, a new era in the relationships between the two states.

Speaker 5 That's a member of Ukraine's parliament, Ina Sofsan, reacting tonight to the bizarre Oval Office spectacle today in which Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance

Speaker 5 screamed Russian talking points at Ukraine's president on camera. Joining us now is Michael McFaul, former U.S.
Ambassador to Russia.

Speaker 5 Ambassador McFaul, it's really nice of you to make time to be here with us tonight. Thank you.

Speaker 9 Glad to be here, Rachel.

Speaker 5 So today, I think, felt to many people like

Speaker 5 putting a final

Speaker 5 piece of punctuation on it. This is a full realignment of American American foreign policy overall.
Under Donald Trump, the United States will abandon an allied democracy.

Speaker 5 We will support the autocrat. We will support Vladimir Putin instead.

Speaker 5 Do you see it that way? And can you help us understand the broader implications of what we saw today?

Speaker 9 Tragically, I see it that way. And you just presented a lot of evidence to support that hypothesis before the commercial break.

Speaker 9 And I just, this is such a sad day for me personally as somebody who cares about democracy and autocracies. And I know American history, we haven't been perfect.

Speaker 9 We haven't always been on the side of the Democrats, but we have a long-standing tradition of standing up to autocrats. Think about it.

Speaker 9 All of our enemies throughout all of our history have been dictatorships. Our most enduring allies, our strongest allies have always been democracies.
And today, Our president wants to switch sides.

Speaker 9 In the struggle between autocrats and Democrats, he doesn't want to be the leader of the free world. He wants to join the autocratic club.

Speaker 9 And I just think it's sad on a kind of ethical and moral level. But I also think this does not serve American national security interests.

Speaker 9 If he goes down this path, we will be isolated from our allies in Europe, from our allies in Asia. The rest of the world will hedge their bets and we will be alone.

Speaker 5 I know that you have been following the actual negotiations to end the war in Ukraine closely.

Speaker 5 I also understand you spoke with members of President Zelensky's delegation since the Oval Office meeting today.

Speaker 5 What are they telling you? What is your sense about the best path forward and what options they have now?

Speaker 9 Well, this was supposed to be a good day.

Speaker 9 You know, they negotiated very hard both sides on this minerals deal. I'm not a big fan of it, but both sides thought it was in their interests.

Speaker 9 They thought that getting a direct meeting with the president was what Zelensky needed, because that's what everybody says. You got to do business with President Trump directly.

Speaker 9 And so it was their idea to fly to Washington to have this meeting. And they're just in shock.
The whole country is in shock.

Speaker 9 By the way, the whole country is rallying to President Zelensky's support, just like the rest of Europe is as well. But they did not expect this.

Speaker 9 And I got to tell you, honestly, this is my opinion, not theirs. But we keep talking about Trump wants to do a deal to end the war.
I'm not so sure that's true.

Speaker 9 I think he wants to do a deal with Putin.

Speaker 9 That's the real play, as you were just describing. And the Ukraine thing is kind of a sideshow.
And if it works out, it works out. If it doesn't,

Speaker 9 Trump doesn't really care because there's no other way. to explain all of the concessions that he has already given to Vladimir Putin even before any negotiation.

Speaker 9 So that suggests to me that in fact, he actually is not trying to negotiate a deal. He's trying to

Speaker 9 nurture a relationship with Vladimir Putin. And as you said, I hope the American people understand this is wrong.
It's not in our national interest.

Speaker 9 And I think Trump is way out ahead of the people as your polling that you just showed just described.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think whatever Americans voted for, I don't think people voted to make the United States a subsidiary diplomatic entity to Vladimir Putin, which is the way that Trump is operating here.

Speaker 5 You mentioned the rest of Europe rallying to Zelensky.

Speaker 5 One of the things that we saw today were leaders of democracies from all over Europe publicly thanking Zelensky today, standing with him in solidarity after this meeting with Trump.

Speaker 5 You know, you talk about whether or not the United States is

Speaker 5 any longer associated with the free world, whether we are the leader of the free world. If we're not, is it becoming clear who is?

Speaker 9 Well, I want to keep hope alive.

Speaker 9 The Trump, President Trump and his team don't seem to be want to be part of the free world. But I'm an American too.
I want to be part of the free world.

Speaker 9 I hope there are other Americans who believe the same as me. And I don't want them to turn this this way because I don't believe it serves America's interests.

Speaker 9 And by the way, there's a lot of Americans like me who think we're more than just mineral deals. We stand for more of that.
So it is, the fight is still on.

Speaker 9 But to your point, yes, the center of gravity has moved to Europe. I was at the Munich security conference.
Actually, we talked at four in the morning there. I now remember.

Speaker 9 And the mood then was: well, we've got to pick this up. We've got to unite.

Speaker 9 We've got to stand behind the democratically elected leader of Ukraine against this imperialist dictator that has invaded his country.

Speaker 9 And tragically, for now, that's where the center of gravity for the free world is.

Speaker 5 Michael McFall, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, I do appreciate you being here.
I know that there's a lot of demand for your time on a night like this after a shock like this.

Speaker 5 It's an honor to have you here tonight, sir. Thank you.

Speaker 9 Can't imagine being anywhere else. Thanks for having me, Rachel.

Speaker 9 All right.

Speaker 5 We've got much more ahead here tonight, including, I'm really happy to say, a live visit with Senator Corey Booker coming up.

Speaker 4 Stay with us.

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Speaker 14 Where we are looks a great deal like the periods in our history when we have reclaimed democracy and built something more inclusive on the other side.

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Speaker 20 I want to tell you and your people, you're the ally I've been hoping for all my life. Not one American has died defending Ukraine.
You've taken our weapons and you've kicked their ass.

Speaker 20 And I'm very proud to have you as our ally.

Speaker 21 The Russians are the bad guys. They invaded, contrary to almost every international law,

Speaker 21 and they should be defeated.

Speaker 21 And Ukraine is entitled to

Speaker 21 the promises that the world made to them.

Speaker 5 Republican U.S.

Speaker 5 Senators Lindsey Graham and Roger Wicker praising Ukraine and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, condemning Russia, saying Ukraine is an ideal ally, that they are entitled to the promises the world made them.

Speaker 5 Those were not clips from two or three years ago. Senator Graham and Senator Wicker said those things exactly two weeks ago.

Speaker 5 That said, to be fair, we are in a news environment where two weeks can can feel like an eternity. So, how about something not even two weeks ago? How about something even more recent?

Speaker 5 How about something from this morning?

Speaker 5 Here's those same two senators greeting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and sitting down with him for a meeting ahead of his trip to the White House today.

Speaker 5 You can hear Senator Wicker, the chair of the Armed Services Committee.

Speaker 5 You can hear him in this next clip.

Speaker 22 Delighted that you're here in the United States. We're encouraged about the show of support.
We have committee chairs, We have the president.

Speaker 22 We're here today as a show of support.

Speaker 5 We're here today as a show of support. We are so encouraged you are here.
We are delighted that I mention the show of support.

Speaker 5 After that meeting, Senator Lindsey Graham posted his own video about how excited he was to be supporting Ukraine today. They were all so excited.

Speaker 5 Today, Senator Wicker posted this picture of himself proudly shaking hands with President Zelensky, calling the meeting a huge step forward in securing mutual prosperity and peace for Americans and Ukrainians.

Speaker 5 This was today,

Speaker 5 and you know what happened next?

Speaker 5 President Donald Trump and J.D. Vance screaming at President Zelensky in the Oval Office, hammering him with Russian talking points as the cameras rolled and rolled and rolled and rolled.

Speaker 5 After that, display.

Speaker 5 Senator Graham, who again, just this morning was so excited to show his support for Ukraine and President Zelensky, just hours after that, he called a press conference to demand that Volodymyr Zelensky must resign.

Speaker 5 Senator Wicker, profile in courage, appears to have just quietly deleted his post from this morning, praising Volodymyr Zelensky and showing himself shaking his hand.

Speaker 5 Courage, Senator Wicker. We reached out to Senator Wicker's office tonight to ask what happened there.

Speaker 5 Haven't heard back.

Speaker 5 With friends like these.

Speaker 5 Democratic Senator Corey Booker joins us live next.

Speaker 5 This is part of how Senator Corey Booker responded today after the debacle at the White House. Quote, Donald Trump and J.D.
Vance didn't show strength today. They showed weakness.

Speaker 5 They belittled a giant and showed just how small they are.

Speaker 5 A weary warrior was before them, a beleaguered man who has lost thousands of his friends and comrades to the unjust and illegal aggression of an authoritarian leader.

Speaker 5 They showed no grace, no magnanimity of spirit, no diplomatic acumen. They were small bullies with big titles, and they disrespected the history and legacy of the nation they lead.

Speaker 5 Today, Donald Trump acted more like Russians, excuse me, today Donald Trump acted more like Russia's Putin than America's president. Joining us now is Senator Corey Booker, Democrat of New Jersey.

Speaker 5 He's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Booker, I'm really glad you could be here tonight.
Thanks for making time.

Speaker 4 Thanks for having me on on a really awful day for our nation. Frankly, it's an awful day for Ukraine and our nation.
The one nation that really is celebrating right now is Vladimir Putin in Russia.

Speaker 5 What concerns you the most about that?

Speaker 5 For Americans who don't necessarily think about foreign policy that much, who don't think about America's role in the world, or if they do don't think it affects their regular lives very much, what concerns you the the most about us apparently abandoning our global stance of the entire modern history of our country and instead lining up with Russia and turning against our democratic allies?

Speaker 4 I had a European leader in my office who came and asked to meet with me privately to express his distress over Ukraine, who told me about what does it say about our world that for the first time to his knowledge we've ever seen in a UN resolution around the Security Council

Speaker 4 America side with China and Russia and condemning what Putin did and not their European democratic allies.

Speaker 4 We are seeing a world shift right now that belies what Republicans and Democrats have been saying in lockstep. We've taken trips together over into Europe to stand with Ukraine.

Speaker 4 We've had Zelensky multiple times meeting with us, meeting with us as senators in private, him receiving standing ovations.

Speaker 4 We had a joint session of Congress where he addressed us and we stood up and people have said time and time again that this is a stand not just in defense of Ukraine, but defense of democracy.

Speaker 4 And if we lose in Ukraine, then authoritarian leaders around the world will be more emboldened and America will be dragged into more and more conflicts defending democracy against autocracy and authoritarianism.

Speaker 4 So this is a significant moment and a significant shift in American history where we have our president who is taunting a world leader, lying about his approval ratings, lying about who started the war, lying about who is the dictator, accusing Zelensky of being a dictator, not the obvious one in Vladimir Putin, taunting him before he came in.

Speaker 4 This is the guy who was impeached once.

Speaker 4 One of his two impeachments was over him trying to extort Zelensky with holding weapons unless he got commitments to do his political bidding in his attacks against Joe Biden.

Speaker 4 This is a sad day for our nation. This is a shift in global geopolitics, and this is something that I am praying and hoping that we can overcome.

Speaker 4 But unfortunately, we are seeing a Republican Party right now that would rather bow to political pressure than stand tall for policies and principles.

Speaker 5 On that point, we have seen, for example, Senator Roger Wicker speak pointedly about Vladimir Putin and speak pointedly in defense of Ukraine.

Speaker 5 We saw him meet this morning with Volodymyr Zelensky and post a tweet of him shaking his hand and talking about how much he supports him, saying how much he was there to support him.

Speaker 5 He just quietly took that down. after what happened today in the Oval Office.

Speaker 5 We saw Lindsey Graham go from meeting with Zelensky this morning and praising him and talking about his support for him to demanding his resignation as soon as Vance and Trump put on that display today.

Speaker 5 We saw Marco Rubio, who is until recently, was until recently considered to be sort of a real politic Republican on foreign policy issues in the United States Senate.

Speaker 5 He sat there inert in the Oval Office today, saying nothing,

Speaker 5 looking green. and then put out a boilerplate North Korea-style tweet of praise for Donald Trump as soon as it was done.
What do you make about hope for Republicans

Speaker 5 showing any sort of resistance here? Is there any?

Speaker 4 You know, again,

Speaker 4 this is a shift in our politics that the Senate used to be a place where, right or wrong, people would criticize a president when they stepped out of line, even one of their own party.

Speaker 4 And here is a situation that is so grave, and my colleagues know this because we meet with these leaders. I was in communication today with an Estonian leader.
This has

Speaker 4 struck fear in their country because Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, these countries know the threat of Russia and worry because Putin is using the same rhetoric with them he used about the Ukrainian people.

Speaker 4 This has grand implications beyond just Ukraine. And we know our history, but yet are failing to learn from it.

Speaker 4 If there's ever a time for political courage, even if it means undermining one's ability to get re-elected, this is a time for courage.

Speaker 4 And we know from our history, when good men do nothing, that is the ingredient that is necessary for evil to be triumphant.

Speaker 5 New Jersey, U.S. Senator Corey Booker.
Senator, I really appreciate you making time to be here tonight. It is, as you say, a very difficult day.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Rachel.

Speaker 5 We'll be right back.

Speaker 5 All right, that's going to to do it for me for now, but I will see you again on Monday and all next week. In the meantime, you can find me on Blue Sky.
Do you have Blue Sky yet? You should try it.

Speaker 5 I'm on BlueSky at maddow.msnbc.com.

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