War plans group chat scandal fits pattern of Trump's embarrassing weakness on information security

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Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts, a protest to defend the EPA. Honk if you love clean water.
This was Duluth, Minnesota today, another big turnout of people protesting to stand up for the EPA. This was Chicago, Illinois today, more people out defending the EPA.
It was a big protest today in Chicago. Good signs, lots of people.

It was a picket and a protest.

The sign says, Factories today emit 1,500,000 tons less toxic air pollution than in 1990. Protect EPA workers.
Protect your family's health. I don't know who this person is at the Chicago protest, but may I commend you on excellent punctuation and grammar on that perfectly spelled sign.
It's all perfect. A plus.
Also a very good point. This was Washington, D.C.
today. Yet more people coming out to defend the U.S.
Post Office. We saw a bunch of protests, people defending the post office last week.
Then We saw just a huge number of protests for the post office this weekend. Now, today in Washington, D.C., people came out to say, hands off, the post office, USPS belongs to us.
This protest was based around rural letter carriers, people who deliver the mail in rural America. You see the signs there at the protest today in Washington.
Rural America relies on the Postal Service. Also a good point and very true.
If Donald Trump is going to abolish, effectively abolish the post office like he says he wants to or privatize it like Elon Musk says he wants to, rural states will absolutely take the worst of it by a mile, which itself is going to be really interesting for rural red state Republicans in Washington trying to justify that to their constituents. Yesterday, we saw marches to support immigrants in San Francisco, California, and in El Paso, Texas, including members of the clergy in El Paso.
In South Carolina, pro-Trump Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace has been refusing to meet with her constituents in the first congressional district in South Carolina in the Low Country. A new local group called the Low Country Accountability Alliance has invited her to do a town hall with her constituents in her district this week on Friday.
It does not appear that she is inclined to do that. In the meantime, they have put up these billboards in her district, show your face Mace, and missing Nancy Mace last seen dodging constituents.
That's happening in South Carolina. In Georgia, in Savannah, where constituents of Republican Congressman Buddy Carter have been protesting and demanding that he talk to them in an in-person town hall with his constituents.
Last night, Congressman Buddy Carter instead opted to do a town hall by telephone. He might have thought that might have kept it a more low-profile event, but alas, more than 10,000 people called in.
Across Georgia this morning, a Savannah representative faced more than 10,000 people during a telephone town hall. Yesterday, Congressman Buddy Carter answered their questions.
And that was after voters protested outside of Carter's office in Savannah about two weeks ago asking for an in-person meeting. The Republican representative was on the phone answering questions from voters, and a big topic for a lot of them was Social Security and benefits for older Americans.
Congressman says there is no risk of those programs going away. No risk? Really, Congressman Carter? Really? No, no, no risk at all? We'll be back to that point in a moment.
But in Kentucky, we reported last night on Republican Congressman Andy Barr not showing up to a town hall that his own constituents held in Lexington in his name. Even though he wouldn't come, they held it as a people's town hall at the beautiful Kentucky Theater in downtown Lexington, Kentucky.
They completely filled the place and then some. But Congressman Andy Barr did not show up.
Instead, he, like Congressman Buddy Carter in Georgia, Andy Barr in Kentucky also opted to do a telephone town hall instead of meeting with people in person. That apparently, according to local news reports, had its ups and downs.
Nothing is more American than Kentucky bourbon. President Trump is fighting for American whiskey, so it is the first choice among consumers everywhere.
Some callers say they are worried about government security. None of us voted for a South African billionaire to come and rummage through our private financial and health information.
In response, Congressman Barr says Elon Musk is an American and reminded listeners of the democratic process. And for anyone who thinks that there are threats to democracy, just consider that 77 million Americans elected this president and this agenda, I would argue that that is democracy.
So you vote for one guy, you get the other guy. That is democracy.
Ta-da! Jeez. And as for Kentucky bourbon, guess which country is the number one export market for Kentucky? Oh, Canada, where they are taking Kentucky bourbon off the shelves, where they are experiencing a patriotic upsurge of Canadians promising to never again buy Kentucky bourbon because of Donald Trump and his genius tariff idea and his constant threats that he's going to go to war with Canada to annex them as the 51st state.
So yeah, you know, go Kentucky Republicans. Good luck.
I see why you might not want to talk to your constituents in person anytime soon. So there's a lot going on today.
And I have to say, this is one of those days in the news that just evoked like one spit take after another. I felt like all day long, I was like, do whoop.
You said do whoop. What? I mean, just a sampling amid all the actual scientific research that Donald Trump is attacking and ending, including like cutting off clinical trials for cancer treatments for veterans at the VA.
I mean, all the stuff like that, that he is cutting. Trump is ordering up one new study for the federal government to do.
The Washington Post reports exclusively tonight that Donald Trump has tapped a fake doctor to head up this new national study. It is a study of just how terrible vaccines really are.
And he and his administration have tapped to run this study, a man who is not a scientist and not a doctor, but he was disciplined in the state of Maryland more than a decade ago for practicing medicine without a license. They are decimating the National Institutes of Health and the centers for disease control which together have given us basically every single major medical advance in humankind in the last 40 years plus and instead they're now hiring cranks off the internet to tell us how bad science is and how you shouldn't get vaccinated it's just amazing.
Trump today unveiled yet another executive order targeting another major law firm for destruction because he thinks this is how he can make sure that people will stop going to court to try to stop him from doing things that are illegal. In particular, I think he also hopes that these kinds of attacks mean that no good big law firms will represent the people and the entities that he goes after on his enemies list.

I mean, this is just the latest in a series of these that he has done. I will just say that, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I spend a lot of time talking to lawyers and talking about stuff going on in the American judicial system.
America's big-time lawyers and big-time law firms have spent a lot of time in the past few years

gazing lovingly at themselves in the mirror, telling themselves what great patriots they are, right? Congratulating themselves on the proud history and standards of their profession, right? The best lawyers and best law firms in the country have been telling these inspiring tales for years now about how brave they will definitely be when the country needs the rule of law to stand. It needs the courts to stand.
It needs good lawyers to stand up to authoritarianism and save the democracy. Y'all have been telling yourself a very pretty story about your own patriotism and bravery for a long time now.
Well, time's up. Now is the time to actually show it.
Now is the time to actually show us all that you are the person who you told us you would be, that you are the profession that you told us you would be, that you will uphold the standards that you've been so proud of and crowing about so much for the last few years. In our new authoritarian system, the country's most powerful law firms right now are getting picked off one by one because, so far at least, they won't get together and stand together to say they're not going to take it.
And they're not going to let this happen to any lawyer, to any law firm, to the legal profession which the country needs in order to fight to retain the rule of law. American lawyers and law firms have been telling themselves that they're going to do great in this moment when it comes.
This moment is here. And they are so far not proving themselves up to their own legend.
Time is short to turn that around. You're depending on it as a profession, you're depending on it as individuals, your businesses are depending on it, but the country is depending on it too.
This is not the time to get small. To underscore the point, the Republican Speaker of the House today said that he and the Republican led Congress may start abolishing federal courts.
They may start defunding federal district courts, thereby abolishing them. Sound like a good idea for our three co-equal branches of government to have one just abolish the other? Anybody home? Big law? Anybody? Trump signed another executive order tonight on elections, which, among other things, demands that all states hand over their voter rolls to Donald Trump's top campaign donor, Elon Musk, because Elon Musk will, I don't know, fix the voting rolls or something.
Sound good? Like I'm telling you, it has been a day. You know, at one of the big protests at Tesla dealerships this weekend, at the one in Chicago, this caught my eye.
A Getty photographer caught this sign at the Chicago protest. Go steal data from Mars.
As all these things come to fruition and each new day comes to pass in this administration. What they are doing with our data and data security, their handling of sensitive information, has turned into the big populist issue of this administration.
And it's turned into just a scandal generating machine that we are seeing the fruits of every single day. I mean, we probably should have seen it coming with Trump in his first term, taking all the classified documents from his first term and stashing them in his bathroom at Mar-a-Lago, right? Including classified documents concerning nuclear weapons.
That was probably a hint that this was not gonna go well in any second term. We should have seen it coming probably at the very beginning of his first term when he invited Russian government officials and a Russian media outlet into the Oval Office.
And then he, surprise, gave them code word level classified information on ongoing covert operations by Israel. Yeah, we should have seen that this was going to be one of the problems that we are going to be dealing with on a daily basis.
But now we've got, it's, you know, it's every day. We've got him very thoroughly doxing hundreds of people, including his own lawyer, by inexplicably personally insisting that those people's full unredacted social security numbers, birth dates, and birthplaces should be included, unredacted, in his release of otherwise basically worthless John F.
Kennedy assassination files. Why did he insist on that? We still don't know.
But he did it. And now they're apparently getting new social security numbers.
Good luck on the 1-800 number waiting to get through to take care of that. We've had random kids who work for Elon Musk rifling through personnel files in the U.S.
government and individual Americans' tax records and health information and hospitalization records and credit card and banking information. It's been a real treat.
The American people really like this idea. Go steal data from Mars, why don't you? Get out.
NPR reports today that last week, all Defense Department personnel received an advisory warning them that they should not use the app Signal even for unclassified information, not because of the security of Signal as an app per se, but because, quote, Russian professional hacking groups were targeting Signal users with phishing attacks. That was last week.
That followed a Defense Department instruction from two years ago in 2023 that reminded Defense Department personnel that Signal should not be used. It could not be used for any non-public Defense Department information.
Nevertheless, Signal, of course, is the app on which Donald Trump's hand-picked Defense Secretary led a robust and detailed group chat about forthcoming military strikes in Yemen. Recall for a moment that in his infinite wisdom, Donald Trump chose for defense secretary a Fox News weekend host who faced allegations of philandering and serious alcohol abuse, including many, many alleged instances of drinking on the job.
Pete Hexeth, of course, denied those allegations. And oh, he looked so good doing it with his American flag handkerchief stuffed into his pocket in case he needed to wipe his nose.
And so Donald Trump stood by him and his chiseled jaw for the job. And so he got the job.
And now here he is, Pete Hexeth, confidently typing out with his thumbs that we are, quote, currently clean on OPSEC, while he was texting on Signal reportedly about specific U.S. weapons systems, named human targets, and the sequencing and exact timing of the battle plan for forthcoming U.S.
airstrikes abroad, with a group of people that included the vice president, the CIA director, the director of national intelligence, the White House chief of staff, the treasury secretary, for some reason, the secretary of state, and also a random journalist who they appear to have added to the chat by mistake. But nobody noticed he was there because apparently nobody looked.
Because we're clean on OPSEC. Today at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing, CIA director John Ratcliffe told one Senator, Democrat John Ossoff of Georgia, that this was not a mistake.
Was this a mistake, sir? No. I guess this was all on purpose.
We will speak with Senator John Ossoff about that in just a moment. But I mean, here we are, less than a week away from the news.

This is less than a week after the news that Pete Hegseth apparently had planned a briefing in the most secure briefing room in the Pentagon. A briefing on the nation's most classified operational war plans for a war against China.
He had planned a highest level, highest security Pentagon briefing on those super secret plans for a pro-China U.S. businessman with billions of dollars in debt to China and huge business interest in that country.
Who also happens to be the top campaign donor to the president. That plan was apparently only busted up at the last moment when the New York Times reported on it, which I guess embarrassed them too much to go forward with it.
But Pete Pegseth had been planning on doing it. That was Friday.
This signal group chat revelation was Monday, right? I mean, things are rapidly disintegrating here. Also, I mean, what do we do with the fact that, you know, mishandling classified information in this way is very clearly a crime? I mean, do we expect the FBI will be all over that? I mean, this stuff is criminal.
It's not keeping nuclear secrets in the Mar-a-Lago bathroom level of crime, but it's a crime. I mean, Jeffrey Goldberg, the journalist who was apparently accidentally included on this signal chain, this group text, says that among the things CIA director John Ratcliffe personally volunteered to this signal group chat, he put in writing to this group chat on this commercial app.
Among the things he posted there was the name of an undercover serving CIA officer,

an active intelligence officer who Goldberg says was serving undercover.

Chris Coons, Democratic senator from Delaware, responded to these revelations by saying, Every single one of the government officials on this text chain have now committed a crime,

even if

accidentally, that would normally involve a jail sentence. Senator Ruben Gallego, a Marine veteran, responded this way, quote, Amateur hour! These are the geniuses that are also selling out Ukraine and destroying our alliances all around the world.
No wonder Putin is embarrassing them at the negotiation table. Now, actually, to that point, it would appear that one person who was a participant in the group chat on Signal, it would appear that one of them physically was in Moscow.
It looks like he was maybe even inside the Kremlin while he was on this text group chat with these geniuses, among other things, reportedly naming an undercover CIA officer and debating very specific information about forthcoming military strikes. Quote, during the group discussion on Signal, Goldberg reported, CIA Director John Ratcliffe named an active CIA intelligence officer in the chat at 5.24 p.m.
Eastern Time. That was just after midnight in Russia.
Trump diplomatic envoy Steve Witkoff's flight did not leave Moscow until around 2 a.m. local time.
A former Putin advisor who is still close to Putin said in a telegram post that in fact Witkoff and Putin were meeting at the Kremlin until 1.30 a.m. Steve, did you keep your phone with you while you were in Russia? Did you keep your phone with you while you were in the Kremlin? Was your phone turned on? What could possibly go wrong? We're supposed to not worry though, right? Because these guys are so savvy.
They are, they are so tough. They're New York real estate tough.
This was the same trip to Moscow in which Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump's real estate friend, came back to the United States and told a heartwarming tale of how Vladimir Putin had given him a painting, a painting of Donald Trump, which Putin had made for Trump personally. And Steve Witkoff hand carried that painting from Russia back to the United States and brought it to the White House and gave it to Donald Trump.
Did anybody check that painting? Anybody like give it a close going over? Steve Witkoff did an interview with the pro Russia ex Fox News host Tucker Carlson, in which he gushed about how much he quote likes Putin. He said, quote, I thought he was straight up with me.
He said it was quote, gracious of Putin to accept me, to see me in Moscow. He said, quote, I don't regard Putin as a bad guy.
This is our negotiator. This is the quality of tough guy genius the United States is bringing to the table for these supposedly tough guy negotiations with the Russians to end the war in Ukraine, right? How's that going? Well, let's see.
Let's just do a little math. So far, since Trump has been back in office and since these negotiations have gotten underway, the tough guy negotiations, but being tough with Russia.
Get them to stop the war in Ukraine. So far, Trump has offered a few concessions and he's announced that the U.S.
is no longer enforcing foreign agents law in this country. He's announced that the U.S.
is shutting down all of our anti-foreign influence operations at the Justice Department and the FBI. He's announced that the U.S.
is shutting down our so-called klepto-capture efforts to enforce sanctions versus Russia and stop them from evading sanctions. Trump has talked about ending sanctions altogether against Russia.
Trump has said he wants Russia to rejoin the G7. Last week, we learned that Trump has cut off the program that tracks the Ukrainian children that Russia kidnapped and took into Russian territory.
Trump is effectively telling Russia, hey, congratulations, you can keep the kids. Trump has restarted diplomatic relations with Russia and said that Russia will soon be reopening their embassy and all their U.S.
consulates at full strength in the United States. Trump shut down U.S.
Cyber Command operations against Russia. He shut down our joint efforts with Europe to counteract Russian sabotage efforts in Europe, which thus far have included multiple arson attacks, an attempted assassination, and packing letter bombs onto international flights.
We're no longer working with our friends in Europe to try to stop those things. Russia has reportedly asked for the U.S.
to restart direct commercial flights between Moscow and the United States. Trump hasn't said a word about that, but do you think he'll say no? And now today, Trump says, quote, the United States will help restore Russia's access to the world market for agricultural and fertilizer exports.
The United States will assist Russia in obtaining lower maritime insurance costs, and the United States will assist Russia in enhancing their access to ports and payment systems for such transactions. So that's so far what Trump has given up to Russia.
But hey, I mean, it's negotiation, right? What did he get in exchange? Well, there's no ceasefire or end to the war in Ukraine. But yesterday, while those tough guy talks

were underway in Saudi Arabia,

Russia did happily shoot a bunch of missiles into Ukraine

while the talks were actively underway.

And Trump did get a painting.

We are not dealing with the sharpest tools

in the shed here at any level.

We, in fact, appear to be dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed here at any level.

We, in fact, appear to be dealing with very profoundly dull tools.

But it's our national security that they're destroying, not theirs.

And the American people are wise to it.

Which means if this system still works, it should make all of this politically unsustainable. We've got Social Security news ahead tonight.
We've got Senator John Ossoff here live. Stay with us.
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Eastern on MSNBC. The American people are scared to death that you're really going after Social Security.
Not only did my constituent not get his payment in February, they went to his bank account and tried to claw back previous payments from January and December. And then what did he do? He had to go down to the building in Seattle, the federal building that you're trying to close, and stand in line for hours and hours and hours to try to say he wasn't dead and to stop taking his money.
That was Washington State Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell today bringing a story from her home state paper to a confirmation hearing for Donald Trump's nominee to run the Social Security Administration. Senator Cantwell told that story today from the Seattle Times about this 82-year-old Washington state resident who was mistakenly declared dead by Social Security, which resulted in his benefits being taken away.
He first tried to fix the problem over the phone. And then, as you heard the senator tell the committee there, he went down to the local Social Security office in person to try to sort it out.
This is from the Seattle Times. Quote, it was like a Depression-era scene, he said, with a queue 50 deep jockeying for the attentions of two tellers.
The employees were kind, but beleaguered. Quote,

they are so understaffed down there, he said. They think the office is about to be closed down, and they don't know where they're going to go.
It feels like the agency is being gutted. After waiting for four hours, Mr.
Johnson admits he jumped the line. He says, quote, I saw an opening, and I kind of just rushed up and told them I was listed as dead.
That seemed to get their attention. One story, one town, one retired person trying to straighten out one problem with Social Security and finding a Depression-era scene when he did so.
But as Donald Trump and his top campaign donor and whatever Doge is continue to hack away at the way Social Security runs as an administration, the questions about Social Security are moving beyond an anecdote here or there. The question, of course, is how much the agency can take before it just stops working altogether.
This is from the Washington Post today, quote, long waits, waves of calls, website crashes, Social Security is breaking down. Washington Post today provided this riveting reporting from social security offices around the country.
Quote, in one office in central Indiana, the phone lines are jammed by 9 a.m. with hundreds of retirees further taxing a staff of less than a dozen that is responsible for nearly 70,000 claimants across the state.
The questions have become predictable. What is the U.S.
Doge service doing to Social Security? Will the office close? Will my benefits continue? The employees with no training yet on the impending changes have few answers. Quote, I hope we're going to be here, the employee tells caller after caller, but I can't guarantee anything.
This is what the Post found in Baltimore, Maryland. Quote, in Baltimore, an employee who works on critical payment systems said nearly a quarter of his team is already gone or will soon be out the door.
Quote, the reduction in highly skilled staff is already having consequences. The staffer said his office is supposed to complete several software updates and modernization processes that are required by law within the next few weeks and months.
But with the departures, it seems increasingly likely that it will miss those deadlines. His team has also called on to fix complicated technology glitches that stop payments.
But many of the experts who make those fixes are exiting. He explains that glitches have to get cleaned up on a case-by-case basis.
The experts in how to do that are leaving. Quote, we will have cases that get stuck, and they're not going to be able to get fixed.
People could be out of benefits for months. Again, that is from the Washington Post today, where they interviewed more than two dozen people and reviewed internal documents for this report.
That headline again, long waits, waves of calls, website crashes, Social Security is breaking down. Joining us now is Lisa Ryan.
She's a reporter for The Washington Post. She's the lead byline on this story.
Ms. Ryan, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Rachel.
So you and your colleagues report that, for example, among all the other things, The Social Security website in the last 10 days or in a span of 10 days has crashed four times. Managers are so short staffed, they're doing double duty as receptionists.
They're taking frontline phone calls. What would you describe the atmosphere like, the mood like, the morale like among the Social Security staffers who are left at these frontline offices? I think the field staff is extremely anxious, and some of them are also extremely angry,

because, you know, they're trying to do their jobs. These are not high-paying jobs.

And what's happened is that an acting commissioner appointed by Donald Trump

has come in and working with Elon Musk's Doge team has moved really swiftly to downsize this

See you next time. appointed by Donald Trump, has come in and working with Elon Musk's Doge team, has moved really swiftly to downsize this agency.
And, you know, he wants to get rid of 7,000 employees. That's about a little over 12 percent.
And he's well on his way to doing this. And they've offered early retirement packages, buyouts.
Some people have been fired. Others have just quit because they're so frustrated.
And this field staff, you know, they take these jobs. These are not easy jobs.
And yet, you know, one by one, the field offices and the call centers, you know, that handle this really deteriorating phone service on the 800 line are just, you know, they're really eroding. And it's just got to be frustrating, of course, for the staff and also for all the retirees and disabled people who are trying to get service.
Some of the impact of what Trump has done to the Social Security Administration strikes me as just very granularly specific in a way that is understandable even to people who have no idea how this agency runs. A Doge-imposed spending freeze has currently left many field offices without paper, pens, or phone headsets at the exact moment phone calls are spiking.
This includes the freeze that drove all federal credit cards to a $1 limit. I mean, even if you don't take Social Security benefits yourself, even if you've never been to this kind of agency, you imagine trying to run any sort of customer service operation without having pens or paper or headsets to answer the phone.
It does seem like there's... I got the sense from your reporting that there's no relief in sight for those types of granular difficulties that make it just impossible to do almost anything.
Is that fair? I think that's fair. And I think, you know, we really don't know kind of what the end game is here.
The nominee, President Trump's nominee to run Social Security had a hearing today before the Senate Finance Committee.

And, you know, there was a bipartisan group of senators who asked him, look, you know, you really need to address customer service issues. And you need to figure out, you know, how many cuts to the staff and to service are really acceptable, because otherwise this agency is going to grind to a halt.
And he said he would address these issues. He talked about using artificial intelligence.
He said, well, you know, maybe we do need to reconsider some of these cuts. But for now, you know, it's not just the staff cuts, though, Rachel.
It's also policy changes that the acting commissioner in charge has made. And this is all in the name of fraud, fighting fraud.
And there's a real obsession of Elon Musk and his team that fraud is a huge issue at Social Security.

And, you know, there is fraud. There's fraud in every federal program.
And this is a really big one. So the fraud estimates seem really high in comparison, you know.
But when you think about the actual spending on benefits, it's not that considerable, less than one percent. But in the name of reducing fraud, what the Trump official who's in charge is now doing is, you know, he's actually made it harder for a variety of people, largely people who can't use computers, to actually do things like verify their identity or make direct deposits.
All this now can't be done by phone, but it has to be done by going to a field office if you can't do it online. But, you know, as we've just talked about, the field offices are just fraying.
So this is sort of a weird, you know, kind of cycle of doom that is now going on. I don't know how it's going to end.
Yeah, it's not going to end unless they take affirmative action to end it. And it does not seem, there's nothing that we've seen in any reporting that there's any intention to fix any of these things as they keep getting worse.
Really vivid reporting and really, and I know it took a lot of shoe leather to do it. Thank you to you and your colleagues for doing this.
Lisa Ryan from The Washington Post. Thanks.
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
All right. More news ahead.
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Let's go! Democratic U.S. Senator John Ossoff had a rally in Atlanta, Georgia this weekend.
He held that rally with his fellow Georgia U.S. Senator Raphael Warnock.
A crowd of 2,000 very enthusiastic Georgia residents showed up. Senator Ossoff said at that rally, President Trump was, quote, trying to poison our democracy with fear and intimidation.
He declared Georgia will bow to no king. That was John Ossoff's weekend in Georgia.
And this was John Ossoff's workday today in Washington as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. So, Director Radcliffe, you were a member of the Houthi PC small group signal chain, correct? I was.
The discussion included the vice president's private opinion on the wisdom of proposed U.S. strikes in Yemen, correct? I don't recall.
It included the private opinions of the secretary of defense on the timing of strikes in Yemen, correct? I don't recall. Director Radcliffe, surely you prepared for this hearing today.
You were part of a group of principals, senior echelons of the U.S. government,

in now a widely publicized breach of sensitive information.

You don't recall whether the vice president opined on the wisdom of the strikes?

That's your testimony today under oath?

In that setting, I don't recall.

Director Radcliffe, this was a huge mistake, correct? No. A national political...
No, no, you hold on. No, no, Director Radcliffe, I asked you a yes or no question and now you'll hold on.
A national political reporter was made privy to sensitive information about imminent military operations against a foreign terrorist organization. And that wasn't a huge mistake.
That wasn't a huge mistake. They characterized it as embarrassment.
Joining us now is Senator John Ossoff of the great state of Georgia. Senator, sir, thank you so much for being here.
It's a pleasure to have you here tonight. Thank you, Rachel.
Great to see you.

Let me get your reaction to what you heard today from John Ratcliffe and from the other intelligence officials at this hearing today. That was obviously a very sharp exchange between you and the CIA director.
But what was your take overall on his testimony? What else you heard today? unacceptable andvincing. And the key point here is that this kind of disclosure and the use of unclassified devices and systems to discuss the timing of imminent U.S.
airstrikes puts American flight crews at risk because it risks the disclosure. And in this case, there was the improper disclosure of information about when U.S.
forces would be entering hostile airspace. And that kind of information in the possession of an enemy provides them with an opportunity to better target our air crews.
This was reckless, it was amateurish, and it put American lives at risk. Do you think that people who are involved in this group text over Signal should resign or be fired? The National Security Advisor and the Secretary of Defense, based upon Mr.
Goldberg's reporting of his inclusion in this chat of specific information related to these air-to-ground operations in Yemen, have breached their basic obligations to protect American national security and American lives, and they should resign. The line from Trump's intelligence officials, if I could sum it up in terms of the way they've responded to this, is that they're basically asserting there was no classified information in this chat.
It seems like they think that kind of ends the conversation. I'm a layman to these things.
I don't know anything about what amounts to classified information or not, but just as an informed news consumer, it seems to me that it's unlikely that none of this information would be considered classified information. It certainly seems likely to me that it would be at the least considered to be non-public sensitive national security information.
And I know there are legal implications for classified information and for sensitive national security information in terms of how those things are handled. Is it possible that this discussion that they entered into over this commercial app, not even knowing who all was in the chat that they were all participating in, is it possible that this was criminal?

It is possible. The Department of Defense manual specifies that information about substantial war plans must be classified as secret.
But look, putting aside the question of whether this information was formally classified, It included information about a disagreement between the vice president and the president over the timing of airstrikes. It included detailed information about when the United States was contemplating taking these airstrikes in Yemen.
And that is exactly the kind of information that a foreign adversary or a hostile foreign intelligence service is aggressively seeking. And it's the kind of information that puts U.S.
military personnel at rest, at risk, when they go out to conduct these operations. And those plans and that timing have been improperly disclosed.
So you held this rally in Atlanta this weekend, 2,000 people there. That's a lot of people, especially when there isn't some election on the horizon that everybody's there turning out for.
We played that sound at the top, asking the crowd, you asking the crowd if they're ready to fight. They sounded very, very ready.
We have seen thousands and thousands and thousands of Americans showing up at rallies and town halls. They're starting to be the first large-scale events, like the one that you and your fellow Georgia senator, Senator Warnock, held this weekend.
What are you hearing from your constituents? When you're talking about that fight with your constituents, what does that look like to you? What are people asking to you? And what do you think your constituents should be doing right now to stand up to what the Trump administration is doing? There is extraordinary opposition energy right now. Outrage at the president's power grab, his attack on the Constitution and the rule of law, his efforts to use fear and intimidation and the power of government to crush the opposition.
That's something we've never seen in American politics before. The open door for corruption and the total disregard for anything that ordinary people care about.
You know, he's down at his palace in Florida talking about invading Greenland. What does that do for people who are concerned about affording health care or child care? Nothing.
So this extraordinary energy, first of all, puts pressure on Republicans in Congress who have very narrow margins to pass their legislative agenda. When they see that the sleeping giant has been awakened and that there is so much popular opposition to this administration, that helps us in the immediate term to defeat their legislative agenda.
And it's also what we will have to channel next year to win a landslide victory in 2026. The only path out of the spiral toward one-man rule is to regain power in Congress.
And I am the only Democrat running for re-election in a state that Donald Trump won. This will be the biggest Senate

race of 2026. And if folks want to help me, they can find out more at electjohn.com.
Senator John Ossoff of Georgia, sir, thank you very much for your time. I know today was a was a long day and this is a busy time.
I appreciate you taking time out to be here with us. Thank you, Rachel.
I'll be right back. Stay with us.
Strong winds and abnormally dry conditions are driving multiple wildfires in the Carolinas right now. Nearly 6,000 acres have burned in a largely rural and mountainous part of western North Carolina, which, yes, is an area that is still struggling to recover from Hurricane Helene.
Multiple wildfires are burning just across the state border in South Carolina, too. This is actually a live look right now, tonight, at a fire in Table Rock State Park in South Carolina.
South Carolina's governor declared a state of emergency this weekend as that fire chewed through more than a thousand acres. The governors of both North and South Carolina have announced that FEMA is coming to the rescue.
Luckily, the Federal Emergency Management Agency has approved fire management assistance grants for both of these states, money that will be used to help pay for fighting the biggest fires, because these are the kinds of disasters that are beyond the capability of states on their own. To show the Trump administration's support for everything North and South Carolina are going through right now, Trump's cabinet secretary for the agency that includes FEMA yesterday just blurted out in the middle of these fires, quote, we are going to eliminate FEMA.
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem took her turn at a Trump administration cabinet meeting yesterday to outline the things she's doing in her agency to please Donald Trump. She used the bulk of her time to claim credit for deportations, but she slipped in one sentence right at the end on something else.
And we're going to eliminate FEMA. So we've got a lot to do, but it.
And, and we're working hard and we're going to make sure that we're continuing to do exactly what you promised. To which Trump responded.
That's great. Good job.
We're going to eliminate FEMA. Oh yeah.
There's been talk in the Trump administration of getting rid of FEMA for a few weeks now, but here it is tossed off almost as an afterthought at a Trump cabinet meeting while everybody nodded stage sagely like that's a great idea. And we're going to eliminate FEMA.
Okay, next. Good luck with the fires, you guys.
Watch this space. All right, that's going to do it for me for now,

but I will see you again tomorrow and every night this week at 9 p.m. Eastern.

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