Unlocking the Secrets to a Profitable Funnel Agency with Kathryn Jones Lish

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This is Russell. Welcome back to the podcast formerly known as the marketing secrets podcast.
Now probably going to be shifting to the selling online podcast. I don't know if I'm updated by the time you listen to this episode, but that's one of my evil plans.
So anyway, we're working on that, a rebrand right now of the show, but I want to welcome you guys on the show today. Today, we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics wrapped in a really cool wrapper.
Obviously, you know my favorite thing in this world besides my wife and kids and wrestling and sushi. Oh, this beats sushi for sure.
My favorite thing is sales funnels. Today, we're going to talk about selling sales funnels.
How can you become a funnel builder and actually get paid as a career building funnels for other people? And the last couple of days, we've actually been doing a challenge here inside the ClickFunnels office called the Sell Sales Funnels Challenge, which has been so much fun. And I have had Catherine Jones-Lish up here, who's someone who came through one of our very first certification programs back in the day.
She learned how to sell sales funnels, made a huge career out of it. And then since then, we decided to partner up with her program and our program to make something insane.
And this podcast episode is going to be giving you guys some of the core beats of what we talked about during this challenge. But hopefully you guys introduce you guys to a really cool opportunity, which is the fact that you can make a career out of building sales funnels for other people.
It's going to be a lot of fun. So that said, let's jump in the podcast and hang out with Catherine Jones Lish.
In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online.
My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. All right, so today, you guys, I'm excited to be here with Catherine Jones-Lish, which now we've added a new last name.
Can you believe it? Your girl got married. I know.
No one thought it could happen, myself included. That is good.
Congratulations. Thank you.
It's been a couple years now. This is old news.
Yeah, you've got a baby now, too. I do, in fact, have a baby, yes.
All right, well, let's jump. Sorry.
A lot of people just jumped on podcasts. They don't know what we're even talking about right now.
So I'm going to take a step back. So I'm excited to be hanging out with Catherine today.
And she's someone who, when did you first come into the ClickFunnels ecosystem, our world? I don't even know exactly what year. It was 2015.
2015. Okay.
So explain a little bit. Yeah, 2015, maybe 2016.
I was just learning about making money online. I was using lead pages.
Forgive me. I didn't know.
Wow. You put them out of business.
I know. I know you seriously did.
But that's what I was using for anybody listening. And I, you know, when you're like in that phase of business where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing.
So I'm doing everything. And I'm on every webinar that's ever existed.
So I was on a public speaking webinar and it was at the very end and it was a Q&A and somebody in the chat asked, what software did you use to build? Because they pitched a product at the end. what software did you use to build your order form page? And just like on a one-off, the guy was like, oh, we use ClickFunnels.
And he just like went on. And I was like, click what? Yeah.
And I just like had never heard about it. So I just like Googled it or so I just like looked it up.
And then of course, you know, you're retargeting me. I got like an email for your.com secrets book, read the book, cried in my college drawer room because I was like, finally, this all makes sense to me.
And then know one thing after another it's like amazing anybody that's following you it's like you tell us what you're doing to sell us and we even know what's happening when it's happening and you're like dang it you're like here's my money i even know what you're doing it's not even like mind tricks you're like crap anyway so it started with the book and then i've gone through all your programs and anyway now we're partnering and doing fun stuff now yeah it's so cool um so we're about this podcast, and by the way, for those who are going to be hearing in, I'm going to be two episodes with Catherine today. She's here in Boise because we just finished a challenge together called the Sell, Sales, Funnels.
So Sell, S-E-L-L, and Sales, S-A-L-E-S, Funnels. The Sell, Sell, Funnels Challenge about selling sales funnels because there's so many opportunities in the funnel world, right? You can be a funnel builder, you can be a copywriter, you can build your own funds, you can do e-commerce or info product or all sorts of stuff.
But one of the coolest, I think, opportunities that's out there that most people don't even know about is the fact that you can sell funnels as a living. You can build funnels and sell them and you can, and you can make this.
And so for you, one of the first things, I mean, you did other things, but one of the things that you did initially was actually start building funnels for other people and doing stuff like that. Um, I love to hear just the translate or the transition from you, like learning about funnels to like, I don't know if there's a moment or aha of like, I could actually do this for people and get paid as, as, and this could be a career for me.
Yeah. So, um, yeah.
So honestly, like how the whole thing started, I like never envisioned myself as an entrepreneur. I was just in college and I kind of bounced around majors, but they're all art majors.
I was like a I was a piano performance major and then I was a film major. Like I just bouncing around.
And then I went and served a mission for my church. I served in L.A.
and I served in like kind of ritzy areas like Beverly Hills, Bel Air and then like in Compton and Watts. And I remember.
Yeah, exactly. And I remember coming home and like as a true millennial, I'm like, I'm almost embarrassed to say this.
I'm like, so contributing to the stereotype, but I just came home and I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I just want to help people, you know? Um, and I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that it would be easier to help people if I had money. So I came back and went to my university and I was like, Hey, I want to switch my degree to business.
And they were like, you have way too many credits. Like you got to get out, you know, you got to finish your major.
And it ended up again, like just being the best thing that ever happened to me. Cause I was like, well, I guess I got to figure out by myself.
I didn't know what that meant. So I started reading like investing books and personal finance books.
And you know, like one of my favorite guys is Ramit. I was going to say, yeah.
Yeah. Like one of my favorite authors ever is, um, his name is Ramit Sethi.
He writes like personal finance. He's got a Netflix series.
He has a Netflix series and he's just like a step-by-step guy for me. I was just like, he's like, number one, put your money here.
Number two. And I was like, thank you.
Like, it's called how to get rich, right? Yeah. I will teach you to be rich.
Great book. Recommend 10 out of 10 to everyone.
He's like, so awesome. Anyway.
And so, and then, you know, you like start getting into all this stuff. I'm starting getting ads and it kind of like bleeds into personal development, which bleeds into internet marketing, you know, like I like all the ads.
And I didn't know what was happening. I remember seriously being like, I'm like'm like getting emails I'm like how are these people getting my email and the thing that's crazy is I had to put it in somewhere you know I just like I didn't understand how it worked I was like this is or like I'd like search for something then I'd get an ad I'd be like that's how do they know I didn't know I didn't know about like pixels and retargeting anyway but one thing led to another I'm like I'm they're like people are offering me courses and and again I'm just like I gotta make money I just like gotta figure out to make money.
And another one of the big I'm like, I'm, they're like, people are offering me courses. And, and again, I'm just like, I got to make money.
I just like got to figure out how to make money. And, uh, another one of the big polls, like one of the reasons why my soul just like kind of lit on fire when I found internet marketing was at the same time.
So I grew up at the second oldest of eight. And, um, uh, so yeah, so my mom was pregnant for all the nineties.
So God bless her. What a, what a queen.
She's awesome. But I loved it.
I didn't know anything different, but I just, I truly like somehow they, my parents are so cool. We ended up all being friends.
It was amazing. So I always knew that I wanted to be a parent.
Um, and, uh, but I also knew I like felt this thing inside my soul that like wouldn't go away that like, uh, I caught like my, I just like wanted to take over the world, you know, like I, I wanted to help and serve and contribute and grow. And so I knew that I wanted to have impact outside my home,, but I also knew I wanted to be a really present parent.
And just like logistics wise, I didn't know how it looked like until I discovered the internet. I was like, oh my gosh.
So I discovered internet marketing and that's one of the big reasons why I cried when I read your book because it wasn't like, yeah, internet marketer. I'm so emotional.
It was like, oh my gosh, like if I'm not an idiot about how I build this thing, like maybe I actually could simultaneously, like I said, like have impact inside and outside of my house. And so anyway, so again, I didn't know exactly what form that looked like.
I'm on all these different things. I'm like launching courses and like, I didn't even know, I don't even have skills.
Right. But I was like, I don't know.
So the first course that I launched, it was to young adults, um, on social skills, which you can, you guys can all judge whether or not I should have been selling that. I don't know.
But I was like, I don't have any, I don't know anything. I was like, of course on social skills.
Yeah. Like, so like, and like how not to be awkward.
And like, I just, I didn't know. I was like, but I have to like practice.
I have to like try. And I sold the course for like 127 bucks.
I think I made six sales. It was, I didn't, I spent more on like softwares and learning and courses to do it.
But like, I got in, you know, I got in the game. And anyway, so then I discovered funnels and which I was just, it was just so systematic to my brain who just craves, you know, order and structure.
And I was just like, crap, that just makes so much sense to me. Like you just put things in an order, you know, it's like a step by step process, a step by step series of web pages.
And so I started to do it for myself. And then all of a sudden I realized I could do it for other people and um and then I discovered you had a certification program I actually was working for my dad at the time so my dad was an entrepreneur as well um and my grandpa was like a huge entrepreneur and then my dad bought his company and so that I was working anyway like this whole thing whole family I love it I love it um but uh but yeah but my grandpa was like an entrepreneur in like the 60s and 70s so like totally different game game, but I learned about this program.
So I told my dad, I was like, dad, you got to read this book. Right.
And so I like got it on, on that. And so I also got my dad on Ramit.
So we always, whenever we'd have a business question, we'd always be like, what would father Ramit and uncle Russell do? We'd like, oh, it's like, that's what we do. So my dad, like we'd have him run a press and he's like, what does uncle Russell think? I was like, I don't know.
Let me go check his book. Like we didn't know you, you know what I mean? Like it was like, like 10 years ago, but my dad, who's always like, like even today, um, I was like calling him last night he's like how's uncle r think i was like i don't know let me go check his book like we didn't know you you know what i mean like it was like like 10 years ago but my dad who's always like like even today um i was like calling him last night he's like how's uncle russell i was like he's doing great dude like love him like he's so awesome one of the funny stories this is obviously you know this but i was at an airport somewhere i don't know and usually nowadays i get spotted different places and stuff like and some guy who's very tall how tall is he six four yeah way taller than me walks up and like on the shoulder and he's like, hey, excuse me.
I don't want to be awkward or weird, but my daughter's Catherine Jones or something. I was like, oh, hey.
Randomly, some airport. I think when we were at some random airport.
So anyway, that's how I met your dad for real. Yeah.
So we're, so yeah. So the Jones family is fans of Uncle Russell.
Anyway, so it was great. And so then it was actually my dad that discovered the certification program because of course he got on all your email stuff email stuff.
And he was like, we need this for my business. I need this for all my other businesses.
Like, if I paid for you to do this, would you do it for us? And I was like, oh, my God, you know, I'm obsessed because I'm, like, working for him and I'm, like, doing my own stuff. I was like, yes.
So I do it and I end up building funnels for them, which was awesome. And at the same time, I was getting clients on the other side.
It was awesome. I ended up finding, like, two or three people that were ads they were really good at ads that needed funnels.
And I would just like build lead funnels. They just pay me 500 bucks a pop.
And so like after work and lead funnels are so easy. So after work and I was good at design, so they look good, so they would pay me.
And so after work and on the weekends, I would just pound out however many leads came in. So anywhere from like one to 10 lead funnels a weekend, because they're so easy.
You know, you just like duplicate it, put it in, put on the right stuff. And so I would just like make all this money on the side.
And I was like, oh, nice. And anyway, so that's kind of how I started.
Then I started finding my own clients and it was awesome. But then people started asking me like, why do your funnels look so good? Like, blah, blah, blah, what does this look like? And again, my systems brain turned it into a framework, turned it into a course and everything from there.
But that's how it started is I was just desperate to find a way to be like, can I build a business that allows me the flexibility, the actual monetary gain, the influence to have impact inside and outside my house. It's always fascinating to me how people come to our world because there's so many different ways.
Like for you, it's dot com secrets and funnels.'s like they read expert secrets and they that's like that's their calling or everyone's got different paths and it's always fun to see now you told a story the very first fun i can live you you spoke at you told a story i love for your shares because it's probably a little vulnerable not as much nowadays but um but a lot of people when they get started entrepreneurship the people that are closest to them the most important usually are the ones who reject it right it could be a spouse could be a spouse, could be a family member, could be an ex-boyfriend, could be whatever. But I know you went through that.
And you tell a part of the story, because I think hopefully it'll help other people who, who hit that guys. So many people who are entrepreneurial, who feel that call to contribution, but then there's someone around them who keep, who kind of knocks them off the path.
And a lot of times they don't come back from, and you did, which is interesting. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. With so yeah here I am I'm in college right and um I'm like I can't I cannot explain to you how x among the o's I was like literally um I yeah it was just so crazy and so yeah I'm like working but like I'm staying up late my friends are asking me to go out I'm like sorry gotta watch a webinar I was, yeah, anyway, I was just living such a different life.
But I ended up meeting this boy and, um, you know, when you meet someone, you're like, thank, like, thank you. Like, you're so easy to talk to.
He was like, we're so charismatic. He's really kind.
He was just like, he was a good boy anyway. And so we dated for eight, nine, 10 months.
And, um, we started talking about getting married and like, I can't tell you how happy I was. Like, I don't know if you've been dating someone.
Someone's like, starts talking about that. And you're like,'re like oh I love not as big as you but we started talking about it was like yes like it felt so good it felt so awesome and um and so it was just like really fun and exciting and then um in like our second or third conversation about it um he said to me he's like Catherine like I got to bring something up to you um about getting married and you know I'm like what is you know I'm like I'm thinking he's like venue you know like honeymoon and I was like yeah what like what is it and he looked at me and he's like I doubt your ability to mother because of your business aspirations and I was like what and at this point I discovered funnels I actually was on my own at this point I wasn't working for my dad anymore so I was on my own doing a full-fledged thing full-fledged agency I just launched a best-selling book and it was kind of like the first time I was like I'm doing this like this is happening yeah like I'm in and um and so he we were kind of dating at like kind of my first rise you might say from like I don't know what I'm doing to like I'm actually making a full-time income and uh and he so he repeated he's like yeah I doubt your ability to mother because of all of your business aspirations and like he, he said that to me and like, I couldn't, like it was, I like couldn't understand

it.

I was like, what do you, what do you mean?

And he's just like, if we're going to do this, like you got to be home.

Like, it's just, that's, that's how I want to raise my kids.

That's how I want to raise my family.

And like all credit to him, like his mom was gone all growing up.

She was a nurse and she worked and his dad left them.

So like, I get it.

Like I, I, I get where he came from. And, but the way that he expressed it was like, you're done.
It's over. Like, you don't get a choice.
Like you're at home. And for me, the way that that felt was like, you're never going to expand.
You're never going to grow. You don't get to develop as a human.
And that doesn't mean that you don't do it with parenting. I think it's like almost exponential or more, but it was just this fact that he was like, I'm deciding your life.
And, and that somehow business became evil. Like me trying to serve and contribute and make money.
Like it got painted in this, like, you're doing a bad, wrong thing. You should not want that.
Like, you're not pursuing, like the way you phrased it was like, you're not pursuing the path of God because you should just want to be with your kids, you know? And like it it was so crazy because I was like I'm gonna marry this kid and to have somebody that I loved and trusted and I'd like open my heart to him in that way I was like oh he doesn't get it like he doesn't understand or see the situation I understand because the whole reason I got into this was again it's like impact inside and outside my home like I felt the calling to do both and anyway needless like it just, we couldn't ever get on. He couldn't see how I saw it and I could not see how he saw it.
And it just like, it ended up not working out. And I like genuinely was depressed for like six months.
Like I'm usually like a get back up on the horse kind of girl. And I could not get back up on the horse.
I was just like, and I think so much of it was because it was like so identity crushing for me where I really did question like, am I doing the wrong thing? And so much of that was because I'd never seen anybody do what I was trying to do. Like, and I know that like sounds so crazy, because there are like a ton of female entrepreneurs, but like, a lot of them.
And again, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. I think everybody's path is the smartest.
Again, it's their best educated guests are like doing what they're supposed to do. But the way I wanted to do it was like, can I build systems so that like a nanny isn't raising my kid, but me and my husband are raising our children.
And, and I'm, again, I'm like not married. I'm kids this way, but I just like felt it in my soul so much.
But I started to question like, am I wrong for wanting this? Like, is that bad of me? And, and it's so interesting because I think that like men and women both think about this differently, you know, like I think just like based on the industrial revolution and like so many things like gender roles and I've just like become what they've become. And, um, and I think there's actually a lot of beauty in them.
Um, but I also think they're that, that they're not set, you know? And so like, it was really interesting. Um, I just felt like I want to make sure that I contribute outside the home.
I want to make sure I contribute in. And I want a husband that actually wants the same too.

Like I want a husband that wants to be with our kids, you know,

that like doesn't just get to see them at these times and these times.

I mean, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong.

It was just what I wanted.

But I really started to question whether it wasn't.

So I just am like diving into like any material I can find about parenting.

Because I started to think like, am I seeing this wrong?

Like am I being selfish for that? Am I like seeing this the wrong way I'm seeing business wrong I'm seeing parenting the wrong way like is it possible to do both so I'm diving into like any parenting book from like New York Times bestsellers to like the good word you know everything in between and what I found like the theme over and over and over again was that um the ultimate role of a parent is to nurture and do you know what what the definition, do you know what the definition of nurture is? It's to enable and to provide opportunity. And I remember when I learned that definition, I was like, well, what in the world is entrepreneurship then? Enabling and providing opportunity.
That is exactly what you're doing. That's exactly what I'm doing.
And so I thought, once I understood that, I was like, okay, old boyfriend, sit down, you know, because I was like, then I could see that me being an entrepreneur, which was enabling and providing opportunity, was only refining my saw for what I was doing inside the home, which was enabling and providing opportunity. And that what I was doing inside the home would one day sharpen what I was doing outside and outside and inside.
And so, and all of a sudden I was just like, it's actually just the same game. It's just like, where are you putting your focus? And once I learned that, then all of a sudden I was like, it makes sense that my soul is like yearning to like enable and provide opportunity for my children and for others.
Like it wasn't like, oh, I want to be a business owner and I want to be a mom. I was like, I'm just actually looking at this all the wrong way.
What I want to do is do what I think we've been like divinely programmed to do. Like God is the creator of this earth, right? We learn like Genesis 1.

That's the first thing he teaches us is I, God, am your father. And so I made you and I made the

earth. Like I'm creator.
I'm a creator. I enable.
I provide opportunity. And so I think as his

children, right? Enable, provide opportunity. And it just like made so much clarity for me so that

when I found people that encountered me or my path of life, whether it was somebody I was dating or

Thank you. And so I think as his children, right, enable, provide opportunity.
And it just like made so much clarity for me so that when I found people that encountered me or my path of life, whether it was somebody I was dating or a college roommate or a family member or whatever, it like, it was just okay.

It was just like, I felt grateful.

I felt like God led me to truths that like in my mind and heart, like it made sense to me.

It felt right in my heart.

I prayed about it.

I was like, that is true.

That is, I think, why I feel called to do all these things.

And if you see it differently, that's just also okay too.

And I'm like, that is true. That is, I think, why I feel called to do all these things.
And if you see it differently, that's just also okay too. And I'm like here to believe that like God might've called you to live a different life.
And that's only rad that you're following that. But for me, it just really took me to understand it.
What it took me to was getting to the depth of the question is why am I trying to do what I'm trying to do? Like, why am I so obsessed with being on these webinars? Why am I so obsessed with trying to learn how to make money online? Like, and it made me kind of like pull back the fact that like, do I really want money? And it's like, yes. And what? Like, do I really want status? Well, sure.
But what, you know? And then when I got to the bottom, I was like, what my soul yearns forns for like yearns for like what actually fills it is enabling providing opportunity and then when I could see that and even now that I am married and have a child like that is the game like what's the balance in terms of where I put my focus but that is the skill set like that's what I'm doing and hopefully on this podcast hopefully when I see my hour, right? Like how, how can I enable Lucy and provide opportunity for Lucy in the next four and a half hours before she goes to bed? That's my job. And then while I'm on this

podcast, how can I enable and provide opportunity for everybody that listens to this? That's my job

right now. Anyway.
So yeah. So I think it is just brutal when people don't have the same eyesight as

you, but I also think it's a gift because it forces you to say, well, why do I see things so you and am I wrong in that or do we just have different views and it's just okay yeah I think God's made a lot of different people a lot of different things and it's like for each of us it's important to find like what we're specifically called to do you know and how it works um it's my story is not nearly as cool as yours but I had kind of a similar experience where I'd run my business for like, I don't know, 15 years. And I always been like, there's business and then there's like the spiritual things in life and they are separate.
And I had a big divider. I had a really good coach.
And she, she one time, I can't remember what the conversation, I just remember she was like, you don't see it, right? I'm like, see what? She's like, like the thing that you built, like that is your calling from God. I was like, what are you talking about? God doesn't care if I make money or if I help people make money.
She's like, and she was one of our clients. So she's like, you understand? She's like, yes, you helped me make money.
But she's like, do you realize what you actually gave my husband and I? Like what? She's like, we were in bondage and you came in, you showed us how to make money, which freed us. And now because of that, we go on mission trips, we serve people, we serve our church, we're able to donate money, all these things because you freed the shackles of this.

And she's like, this is the calling God has given you to do this to people, to do it to us.

So you changed our life because of that.

And I was like, I never even in my mind considered that they were together.

And for me, as soon as I realized, I was like, I believe now that what I'm doing,

I believe what you're doing, I believe it is a calling from God.

If you feel that call to contribution, that's what Sharfman calls it.

Alex Sharfman is like, this call to contribution.

I love the way he says it's like,

Thank you. believe now that like what I'm doing, I believe what you're doing.
I believe it is a calling from God. Like if you feel that call to contribution, that's what a Sharfman calls it.
Alex Sharfman's like this call to contribution. I love that way he says it's like, if you feel that, that call to contribution, like that is God putting these things in your heart, like to pull you towards something, right.
That call. And, um, even though it doesn't make sense, it's like your role in his whole grand scheme of things is, is to do this piece.
Right. And it opens up doors for other people for other people.
So thanks for sharing that. That was not the direction I was planning on going, but I think it's valuable for everybody listening.
Hang in there. Okay.
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So let's get into, again, we talked about funnel building as an opportunity and as a career. Because I think this is the thing that obviously what we've done in the last three days here, we've been doing this selling, sales, funnels challenge to help show that to people.
This is a real thing that they can do, that it can become a career for them. I think that people hear about that.
Some people get excited and some people get nervous and like, how does this actually work? And there's all this fear. But I would love to kind of go through almost like the levels of it.
With you, when you first – the program I first became familiar with you, you had launched your design hacking school, teaching people that level. And then there's different levels though, right? So like, let's talk about that first level.
Like someone wants to come in and they want to learn, like they want to start making money. Maybe they love funnels.
The idea of funnels, they want to figure it out. Like how, what's that first level look like for them to be able to start an actual business doing this for other people? Yeah.
That's what I love about this. Uh, I called a game of like building and selling funnels is that there are levels to it.
So there's some things like brain surgery. They're not levels.
Like if you only know like part one through two, you should not operate on somebody's brain, right? But that's a beautiful thing about funnels is that it actually really is broken up. So if you only have mastered kind of this first skill, you can still monetize it.
And then you can master another skill, monetize it. And so what I learned really easily, again, my like framework brain, like because what a funnel is, if anybody doesn't know, right, it's just like a series of web pages strung together and it acts as a 24-7 salesperson for you.
And so, again, they're just like baby stepping, holding the hand of somebody through the sale. And so what you want to do as a funnel builder is like figure out like, OK, well, what do I need to put on page one to get them to buy? And then what do I need to get on page two to get them to upsell? What do I need three blah blah blah and um and so my systematic brain was like okay well what's the patterns in this and ultimately like what a funnel all comes down to is you need to have a strategy and then so like what actual pages am I putting together almost like an instruction sheet and then you need to have the assets so like what are the words like what actually am I going to type on the pages do I need a video on there do I need images so you need all like the materials and then you actually need to assemble them all together like design i always say like building a funnel is like ikea furniture like you need a set of instructions and you need all the misassembled pieces like video ads or like screws and and wood and then you actually like need to put it together so it looks into something good and um and i think for so long the skill was taught of like you need to be a master at strategy and you need to be a master at at assets and a master at design which is hard to do oh well it just takes a while like it just takes a second right

um and especially if you're like doing it on your own right and don't have you as a coach

but like it can just take a second and and and people are like yeah but like maybe it's not but

i always like to go back to ikea like seriously imagine that somebody comes to you and is like

hey like design a set of furniture from scratch and then like i not only want you to like build

out the instructions right to do it but i want you to like somehow cut the wood in a way that

Thank you. that somebody comes to you and is like, hey, like design a set of furniture from scratch.
And then like, I not only want you to like build out the instructions, right. To do it, but I want you to like somehow cut the wood in a way that can like get together and then go build it.
Like, I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Right.
But if somebody handed me a piece of Ikea furniture in a box with instructions, they bought it, they showed up at the house. And they're like, Catherine put this together.
I don't need, I really don't need that much skill to do it. And that's actually the beauty of funnel building is like, it's such an easy to entry, uh, market because most funnel, because there's opportunity like that with the design game.
So a lot of people, like you're doing a ton of the educational work yourself to like get people on board. This is what a funnel is.
Your business needs a funnel, funnel, funnel, funnel. So people go and build a funnel and they realize they don't know how to build a funnel.
And they also really don't care to build a funnel. They're like, oh, like I want to sell online dance classes like to couples.
And they're like, I could care less about learning marketing. I just want to find clients to sell my actual thing to.
So they went through and tried to build a funnel. So they got a strategy.
They like figured out some sort of strategy. They have like a video, they have even words, right? But like they put it together all in the wrong order on the like, it's not optimized.
It looks ugly. Exactly.
So what is so awesome is that there's so many people out there who have step one and two pretty locked down. And oftentimes they can do that because they are an expert in their actual craft, right? Like I know how to talk about ballroom dancing for couples because I've been teaching ballroom dancing for couples for 20 years, right? Like they know how to talk about it.
So they have, they're pretty close on the strategy if they haven't nailed it already. And then they, um, they're really good at their assets, but like they go to actually build it in the software and they like either logistically don't know how to use the software or they build it and it's ugly or the actions, but what, you know what I'm saying? It's so ugly.
So like people, in case you're running, there's a, there's a study from Stanford and Google, people determine the credibility of your website in 0.05 seconds. And over 90% of what you're judging is your design.
So you could have the most incredible offer in the world, but if people don't stay on your site long enough to actually see what you're selling, you lost the game. So not only does your site need to look good, it needs to be optimized as well.
So like it's one thing to have it look good, but it needs to look good in the way that people want it to look good. Like a funnel that's selling to ballroom dances, uh, ballroom dances for couples should be designed differently than if you're selling a fitness program for mom, then should be designed differently.
If you're a fitness program for college boys. Like, just think about how different a fitness page for mom and a fitness page for college boys, they should look different.
The design should be different. Anyway, and so, but that's what I love is that like the market, like there's so, there's such high demand for this skill because every funnel, every product, every product needs the funnel.
But there's also such demand for this lowest hanging fruit of just funnel design work because a lot of people have tried themselves to build a website, to build a funnel, and it's not making money. They have the assets.
They know what they want to do. They know they want a funnel, but they can't get it.
And that's where I think this really low hanging fruit of funnel design, the skill that doesn't take long to learn if you know the right way to do it is so amazing because you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just go build Ikea furniture.
It's like, oh, you put together the bookshelf wrong. Let's unscrew the bolts and make sure we put it in the right order.
And there you go. Your bookshelf or funnel actually works now.
A lot of people might be hearing this. That's great, Catherine, but I'm not designer.
And I think about this, like when I launched ClickFunnels initially, I'm like, how do I, because for me it was tough because I'm like, there's a dozen different ways to do funnels or more, right? But there's a bunch of things. I'm like, how do I, I can't teach somebody, here's 12 ways to build a funnel.
And I hope they're going to figure it out, understand it. And like, you know, and so for me, it was like, the concept I came out was like funnel hacking.
So find a funnel you like. You want to sell an ebook, find someone to sell an e-book and then funnel hack it, right? Buy all the pages and that's the strategy.
Just model their strategy. That's what I was trying to like show people.
Or you want to launch a book or you want to launch a webinar. Like go and like funnel hack someone.
Look at the – that gives you the blueprint. You got to get the strategy and then you can go build it.
And then – so I called it funnel hacking obviously. When you came up with yours, you called it design hacking.
So for someone who's not a designer, how do they use design hacking to be able to quickly like, Oh, I'm going to build like to know what to build and actually assemble the thing correctly versus like just making another worse version with the person already tried. Yeah.
Well, and maybe if I can, if I can rewind in the story really quickly, I was saying like, I was just making lead funnels like all the time. But at the beginning, they weren't actually converting.
And it was because they were so ugly. Like they just really were.
And that's when I came across that study that was people determine the credibility. And I was like, dang it, you know, like, and I honestly was embarrassed.
I was like, that's not a little good. I don't want my name associated with that.
So I go to go figure out like, how do I design? And everybody was like, go back to design school, go learn Photoshop, you need to learn coding. And I never want it like actually is comical to me that I make have made the name for myself in the funnel space as a design girl because I'm not a design girl.
I just wanted my crap to work. Like I'm just like, I'm just trying to have impact inside my home and outside my home.
I'm trying to build a business. I have kids one day and like, dang it, you know? And so everyone's telling me to go learn all this design and I was just too stubborn to do it.
And so I was like, there's got to be a way to not do that. And so that's kind of what led me to this hacking idea.
I'd been introduced it to you by you. Um, and hacking just means modeling, like find the patterns and then model those in your own.
And that's when I was like, I don't need to be a designer. What I actually need to do is just be really exceptional at finding the patterns that are working.
And so for me, like it really is simple as comes down to like, okay, if I'm like building a funnel for the, the couple that, or for the person that sells ballroom dancing, right? Like I'm going to go online and I'm going to see, I'm going to go try to find other people that are either selling ballroom dancing or are selling like, um, like, uh, like fitness classes over zoom or anything like any like live service, right? Over, over the internet and just see like what their funnels have. Like what, what patterns am I seeing with the fonts they're using? What patterns am I seeing with like the hero section? Like do they have a big picture of the leader in the front? Do they have a huge headline? Like what is the color scheme? It's crazy.
Sometimes like there's some niches sometimes where it's like, wow, yellow is the color. And like a dark yellow, you're like crazy.
Everyone's using yellow, but you're like, great. I mean like.
Must be a reason to do it. Yeah.
And that was one thing too, because I wasn't trying to be a designer. I just really wanted it to work.
That like I didn't care in the beginning to be like, Oh, well, like, how do I know that this works or blah, blah, blah. I just kind of assumed like, okay, if this person has money enough to do ad spend, which I know that they do because their pages are like ranking on Google or I'm seeing them on Facebook, then like they must know something more than me because I'm not paying for ad spend at the time.
Right. So I'd be like, great.
Like they are steps ahead of me in their business. They're actually betting money on this page that it works because I can see it's sponsored on Google or a Facebook ad or whatever.
So I'm going to trust those pages and use those as a model. And so that's just seriously what I did.
Like I didn't try to be a designer. I didn't try to be like, okay, let's come up with this like cool concept idea, which I do.
I do have to say like I meet designers and I'm like, I wish I had your skills, but I. Like, anything that looks good that you've ever seen me produce, whether it's a funnel or a slide deck or anything, is literally, like, for these slides that I just did, I just literally went to your selling online event.
I was like, okay, how do you do this pitch slide? I said, nice, love it. And I just like, okay, I like, what is working? Go on, put it in there.
Anyways, and so that's how it works. And so it really is really interesting.
I even think with, like, the game of marketing, like, sometimes I think marketing or I'm a marketer can feel like so magic almost. And it's really just an organization problem.
Marketing is all organization. Like, can you get the right pieces in the right place? And so for this term, like funnel hacking, which is finding the patterns and modeling or design, finding the design patterns and modeling, it's just organizing.
Like, can I find the patterns and can I put those patterns in the same place and my stuff and move on? And so, um, and so in that way we were, I was able to, you know, quote unquote, hack the design system. Um, and that's how, and that's how it started.
And so I think for anybody like, Oh, I'm not a designer. Welcome to the club.
Yeah. I remember when we first launched ClickFunnels, I was trying to figure out a way to promote it.
And so, uh, I remember Lewis Howes at the time he had hired digital telephony to do his landing page. I know that because I bought a company from Digital Telephony.
So they're the amazing designing team, like insane. And they charge, we tried to hire them one time.
They charge for like a blog design. It was like, I think it was like $70,000 for a site or if you wanted a full branding package, $150,000.
And Louis had paid it. And so I remember one of my first things I did when we were launching ClickFunnels.
I was like, hey, check out. Here's Louis' $75,000 site design.
I'm going to show you guys how I can build it. I opened my monitor on the left-hand side.
I had Louis' right. It's like ClickFunnels.
And I literally just went element by element and I just like design hacked. I was like, okay, took his logo, put it right here, color and I did it within like 15 minutes I'd replicated a $75,000 funnel design and it was insane it looked amazing it was look like you wouldn't have been able to tell that which one's Lewis's which one's mine right and like that's what you're talking about like you can go and find the greatest designers in the world you look at what they do and then you're modeling them right yeah and and that's the thing that I always find amazing too and with design hacking right is like we're actually not trying to be good designers.
What we're trying to do is model or design in a way that converts. So sometimes like I'll go through the process and I have to check myself.
Like it's so interesting, even like, so, um, so we did this selling, this selling funnels challenge and then we have a certification program, right? That like teaches people how to do it. And when I was doing the training for the certification program, I was doing it.
Uh, I like made a funnel for one of my neighbors. Cause I was like brand new business.
Like, let's see. And one of my neighbors who's trying to sell like her online coaching services.
So I literally go and I like show everybody, like, here's how you find the funnels that are working. Like, here's how you know the funnels to, or the pages to actually take patterns from.
So I'm taking patterns from it. I'm like writing it all down.
And then I start to design it. And I was like, I don't like how that looks.
I'm going to tweak it. And then I like, even so I was like, actually, it doesn't matter what I think looks good.
It's what the market decided. And so I'd like go back and I'd be like, okay, great learning.
But it's like amazing because sometimes we catch our stuff like, I don't like how that looks. And there's a difference between like, oh, I'm designing for things to look pretty because who cares if your thing looks pretty, if it doesn't make you any money.
So it it's really interesting like like um sometimes you'll see like in the supplement world um like especially selling to old i shouldn't say older people people that are older than me 60 i'm getting older i'm well so am i i know literally oh my gosh um but if you're selling to older people like if you have a really sleek design it's really interesting it converts worse because it's overwhelming whereas if you have like a website that kind of looks like it's from the early 2000s it's it and it to me it like hurts me like because i'm like ah it's so ugly but i think that's the beautiful thing about this concept of funnel hacking or design hacking is you're just not if the the true objective at the end of the day is cash flow and sales and so what you want to do is just find the patterns and you kind of have to put aside what you care about how it looks because again you're trying to optimize it for the avatar that's going to come through it reminds me uh my my i had a supplement for diabetic neuropathy about the time we're launching click funnels and we had same thing we made the sickest coolest site and did not convert and um and then we went in our avatar they're older you know 70s 80s 90s years old and And they didn't want to watch videos. We had this amazing best sales videos ever we made.

And we shifted this long form thing with no images. It looked like it was built in front page and crushed.

It's just crazy.

It's like, that's what they responded to.

But I, you know, me trying to be a designer and a funnel builder, all this stuff.

And I messed it up till we reverted back to what that market.

And it came back to doing a little research and finding some things.

Yeah.

But it goes back to, I think, this concept of like enabling and providing providing opportunity which like you have to get yourself out of the way to be like okay like my main objective is to help somebody who's in pain to not be in pain and what you have to do is you have to get the person in pain to actually listen to you and so like if you're marketing to gen z's you got to figure out how to get them to pay attention to you if you're marketing to boomers you got to figure out how to get them to pay attention to you. If you're marketing to boomers, you got to figure out how to get them to listen to you.
And I just think it's actually, it's just amazing. Like I think to come into the game at this point, I mean, like you were one of the late stage pioneers of like this internet marketing, right? Where you kind of took us from like physical marketing, right? Like mail.
I can't, what's it called? Direct response. Yeah,'t remember i don't even i never know i didn't do it to like internet marketing um but that's why i just think we're so lucky because like you're never having to reinvent the wheel there's so many people out there that are doing it good that you can model it and there's also so many people out there doing it bad that you have so much opportunity like yes it's so awesome's so awesome.
You just have basic understanding. Yeah.

I wasn't at one thing.

A lot of people,

whenever I talk about stuff,

they always like,

well, I can't find,

how do you find these funnels?

I don't even know where they're at.

And so I'm going to show them,

I'm telling my secret.

Maybe yours is similar.

I love it.

But when I know,

and right now we just built,

at Funnel Hacking Live,

you saw we launched a new plugin called Barnum PT,

which is a free plugin for funnel hacking.

You go funnel hack screenshots and pictures.

And so like,

I'm in the process right now

if I'm rebuilding my swipe file,

so I'm funnel hacking. I'm buying everyone's product.
Just like, but I'm trying to find different markets. So for me, example, I was like, okay, uh, I want to, I want to go see everyone's got a green drink offer.
So first thing is I grab my phone and I just start talking by it because everyone knows this is a thing now, right? Like, so I was like green drink, I want a healthy green drink. I'm looking for some green drink.
Um, I want something that's going to be healthy, a red drink, green drink. And I started thinking, I start talking to my phone and also the ads start showing up.
And then I go to Facebook and I start searching for a bunch of things. And I go to Google, I search, I go to Instagram, I search, and then I just, I'm done.
And over the next two weeks, I'm going to get hit with 500,000 emails and they pop up. I click on every single ad, go to the page, open up barn and PT screenshot, screenshot every single page in the funnel.
Right. If I wanted to do baby diapers, I would go and I would start typing saying baby diapers.

And like, but I say it by next to my phone, type it four or five places.

And then I sit back and they just all start coming to you.

Yeah.

Is this similar for you?

Yeah.

I just, I just Google searches if I am the person trying to buy the product.

And so like, same thing.

See where it takes you.

Yes, exactly.

And so you go and I click on everything and I do it.

And then what I love about what your process is too is, is oftentimes like you get the best sample size if you wait for a few days because people are going to retarget you. People are going to do this.
We were just talking with our friend, Greg, who does the program with this. He's like, I click on every single ad and in my Instagram, I have like folders for like, these are great internet marketing ads and these are great this, and this is amazing funnel.
It's like so cool, but it it just really is amazing if you understand the process for how to find the highest converting items to incorporate into your funnels um when you understand how it works it it's just there you just get to actually just take it and you start clicking on things then facebook and instagram will the algorithm will get trained and they're like oh this person's looking for that stuff and then all the other companies you couldn't find just start showing it magically and it is amazing fascinating i don't know if you

ever done this but one time i grabbed my wife's phone i thought it was mine i opened it up

and i opened it facebook and i was like in this whole new world this whole new land oh yeah i was

like what is this and i was like oh this is what facebook looks like my wife because she's searching

for way different things than i am i was like this is a whole different experience it was so

cool because i saw all these other funnels that never even knew existed right yeah well like my

parents uh so my gen z my gen z siblings they're all all about TikTok. But my parents are also on TikTok.
I love it. But they also will be like, oh, yeah.
Like they'll always be like, you're on the wrong side of TikTok. Because my mom is on TikTok for gardening videos, crochet videos.
She has workout like stay flexible videos, right? Because she's just turned 60 this year. Like how to keep your mobility.
My dad is like so so funny. He loves like back cracking videos.
And, but he also loves like Napoleon Hill stuff and like business stuff. And then my Gen Z siblings are like Ariana Grande, you know, like Taylor's not even as far as the two millennial.
I don't even know what they're listening to, but like, it's so interesting when it's called like, Oh, like you're on the other side of TikTok. Cause on this.
And, and in one way it's actually amazing, right? Like that the algorithm just conforms to what you want. In some ways, I think there can be some negative side effects to that in the world.
But from a marketing standpoint, it is awesome because you basically have, it's like a, it's a search engine tool specifically for products that are marketing. And so you're like, oh, again, if they have money to run ads, they probably got, it's not nothing happening, you know, and so it's an amazing thing to model.
So cool. All right.
So that's tier number one. So tier number one, somebody learns the basics of design, how to how to find those things, look for the things.
And then now they can go and start getting clients selling design. So what are the price points? If someone's just doing the design, what could they sell their design services for? Totally.
It's usually anywhere from three to four figures per build. And typically the way that I have people do it, because again, you're not building the strategy, you're not like building assets.
It's literally like reorganization. It's typically just like a flat rate per page.
And so the more you build and the more you have like a portfolio to show, the higher you can do it. And so like I would say like on average, once people are kind of getting into it, you're making anywhere from two grand to five to six grand per build, right? Like, cool.
Awesome. Because again, you're taking all their stuff, redesigning it, taking all their stuff, redesigning it.
And so some people seriously, like, uh, I mean, before we joined forces, that was all I ever told people I do was like design and they built this full on business. They, they didn't even like have to read your books, which I always told them to, don't worry, but they didn't even have to.
Right. Because like, we're not focusing on strategy.
We're not focused on. The person's coming to him.
I need a book funnel. I tried.
It's not working. You're like, cool.
Let me fix it. Or I want, I'm trying to webinar funnel.
It's not working. Yeah.
You know, as opposed to like, what should I, what should I build? Right. Yeah, exactly.
Because yeah, cause they would come to them and the target audience would always be like, I know exactly what I'm trying to build. I know exactly what product I'm trying to build, blah, blah, blah.
Whereas when you start to go to this next level, which is, hey, I'm going to get really good at strategy, which is essentially, again, thinking of Ikea, I'm like really good at figuring out which funnel you need. So somebody comes to you and they're like, I want to sell.
Like I'm an online, I'll just keep going to this example. I teach bottom dancing to couples and I want to take it online.
And most times that's like all somebody knows. They have no idea what a funnel is or if they do, they don't know which funnel type to build.
That's when you can come in and when you start to know strategy, then you can start to charge a lot higher dollar because then you also know how to start creating their assets. You know how to start building their copy.
You know what video scripts to make them. Like it becomes really, really exciting.
And so at that point, when you master that, you go from three to four figures per build to four to five figures per build um because again uh and some people i think um money is always tricky for people everybody comes with money baggage good bad and ugly you know and sometimes selling can feel really hard and all these different things but the thing that i love and and why i don't feel any uh hesitancy and charging people multiple five figures for a funnel build for me now, right? It's because I do understand strategy. I do understand asset creation.
I'm really good at design. So I know that what I'm building them is not just like, oh, like here's some webpages that will never do anything.
It's, oh, I just built you a selling machine. I built you something that's going to make you money.
And when you can build something that makes people money, you can always charge people money. Like you always have a skill set that people will pay money for.
So really like phase one. And what's so amazing about this is, again, is like the road to entry is just so easy.
You can start making money by just designing, right? Getting things in the right places. And then when you are like, oh, I want to start making higher dollar for this, learn the strategy, learn the assets, put it all together.
You start making your custom furniture, right? And you can go from there and turn into a full-blown career. And then this is something that I love too, because people are like, okay, then the game's over.
And it's like, oh no, you only just began. Because then what you can do is you can optimize them.
Because like a true funnel, right? Like if you have a funnel up, like the best funnels are living, breathing, optimized, changing, right? Like you have, you have a hundred people go or 500 people go through the funnel and like you, you should be smarter than when it started. And so you take what you learned, like, Oh, like tweak, tweak, exactly.
And then 500 people more go through and you tweak and 500. And so then you can start to charge even more in terms of like, Oh, like you're, you can pay me anywhere from a thousand to 5,000 bucks a month to just like keep optimizing your funnel.
There's a company we use off and and on it's 25 grand a month and they just log into your clickfunnels account and then they just tweak stuff they all the traffic's coming in and they sit and tweak stuff and tweak stuff and it's called called cro excuse me it's called cro because it sounds fancy conversion rate optimization yeah and it's just it's being a funnel builder who's just like okay let's test five different ideas today let's move the headline here let's move different things. And like, and you're tweaking to see what, what's the thing.
And it's worth it for someone like me or someone who's getting a lot of traffic because, um, let's say I'm getting, let's say I'm getting a hundred thousand visitors a month to a site, right? And I'm converting 3% of those. So I should have picked knees here.
What's the math in that? That's a hundred thousand, 3%, 3,000. Right.
Sure. Yes.
300. Anyway, whatever that is.
Right. I go from a 3% conversion to to a five percent that seems like oh you increase but when you have that much volume yeah it becomes like they could add an extra million dollars a month someone's bottom line like that's the reality so someone will pay again twenty five thousand dollars or more just to sit there and just tweak your page and just see what's gonna well i remember i saw a training video of yours once and you actually showed like a google spreadsheet of like of a video that had yeah a guy that somebody had sent you and it was like okay like um like here's like the 40 active tests we have right now which was like that's the hottest thing i've ever seen i love that you have 40 funnels to test on like active funnels and that was like not even all of them but you're like okay here's the test and he just like and he had the rows like highlighted um green yellow or red and it was like green if that test worked yellow if it's like uh like we need to run a little bit more traffic to decide, like it's still cooking.
And then red is like, Oh, that test didn't work. And it was so like, amazing to me again, like seeing the volume.
And that's the thing too, like whether you have a hundred thousand visitors or even a thousand visitors, like it, like, and it's so cool to be like, Oh, I remember it was like such a small thing. It was like, Oh, we like increased the conversion to like a 6% to a 6.8.
And then the next column on it was like how much a year revenue did that add? And it was like $217,000 because it went from six to 6.8. I was like, dang, I freaking love this game, but it's just a game.
Right. And, um, and I think it can feel overwhelming.
You're like, Oh, tweak the headline, do this. It can feel like random and sporadic, but they're just like, there is patterns with design and patterns with assets and patterns with strategy.
There's patterns with optimization where it's like, okay, we know that this is the first thing we test. And then if that works, great.
If it doesn't work, this is what we do next. Or if it works, great.
Then we'll also see if the next thing works. The next thing works.
But I love that. That's just what my, my soul loves about this game is that it like everything is a process and it's just like, start here, move forward, start here here troubleshoot move forward anyway so that's what I love too because then you can start trading recurring and then if you love it right and you can get smart about it like knowing that funnels and the game is all broken up you're like oh I need strategy I need assets I need design I need optimization right like if you want to really blow it up you can start to build an agency where rather than you wearing all those hats you can be like okay like I actually hate the design part I'm gonna throw somebody on design awesome I hate the strategy part we would strumming on strategy but I love copy or whatever and then all of a sudden you can increase the amount of clients and so that retainer just goes up and up and up so you're not just making three to four figures of build you're making three to four figures per month per client right like and it just actually becomes like actually becomes like a living, breathing business.
Yeah, it's really cool. And what's interesting is I've seen people who go to build an agency initially, they find those core people and they're running through client accounts and then eventually they shift from like, I'm just gonna charge somebody to do this thing to like, I want equity in a company.
I showed a video to the challenge of Noah Lenz who's a 14 year old kid who takes equity for every funnel he builds. It's so awesome.
There's equity there, right? And then later, it's like when you have your own ideas, your own projects, or things you want, then you can plug it into that same system. That's what I love.
I'm telling you what, like sometimes I can't believe it. I say this to my husband all the time.
I'm like, it is a crazy world we live in that like I can just have an idea, especially when you sell education products. Like because all education products are is somebody's figured out the pattern to something and then you sell the pattern like that's it right so like i sell products on design it's because i figured out the patterns right like i sell products on like partnership traffic it's because i figured out the patterns but like it's amazing it's just like ideas that you have and you figure the patterns i can get results and then it's just amazing and i'm like i can just film a video and like it's almost like i'm like paint like coloring a page online and then you make money i'm like it's crazy it's amazing but the thing that isn't mean it's not unethical it's just like it really it really is just like the ease right now of if you understand the game taking product to market and then market to money in your bank account can be really fast and the first time is always the hardest right but as soon as you get through like i tell people the very first time they're building a funnel for themselves or someone else like you do the whole process and then after you've done it once like oh i know all the like the hardest funnel i've built was my potato gun funnel because i had to learn how to like this back in the day like how do you set up a domain how do you point it to your web host how do you do ftp i bet that was terrible because i don't even like doing that now yeah it was so many steps it took me like six months just to figure out how to get an image online and then like i kind of get front page to connect to this it was like this huge thing and i finally got it and i did all the work and i had to figure out how to write copy and how do you get images and how do you hook it to an order form right all the things and it was a nightmare right clickfunnels makes it way easier now but then it was a nightmare but as soon as i did it once all the way and i bought my first ads my paper or my google pay-per-click pushed on my potato dvd and it was working and then i was just like oh i know how to do it and then next time i was like okay step number one and then second funnel took me like a week and the next funnel and it started getting really really fast and so it's like just getting getting the process down once um and i was gonna say one thing that we talked about like you know initially usually it's you doing all these pieces right you're learning and eventually you start you start building a team or agency and When you said that, I was gonna say one thing that we talked about, like, you know, initially, usually it's you doing all these pieces, right? You're learning.
And then eventually you start, you start building a team or agency. And I look at, when you said that, I was thinking about my company, like ClickFunnels is just basically that, like there's me, I like the strategy.
So I'm like, oh, strategy, right? Underneath me, then there's Morag. So I tell Morag, who's our project manager, Morag, here's the strategy.
She's like, cool, she's got it. And then she goes and we've got, um, um, I think the best designer on the planet, Jake Leslie, Jake, and he's got a team of three or four designers.
They go and they design the thing. Right.
And then Nick is my funnel builder. He goes and connects all the things put together.
Heath is my copywriter. Heath goes and writes all the copy.
And then, and then, um, there's a couple of people, but like, like, that's all we've done. I've got, I've got four or five people who are insanely good at all the different pieces.
And then I have an idea and then we go through and then we launch it. And then people have launched sonels so often it's like i got the best team in the world like we could do agency work but at this point i i make more do my own thing so i'll do my own work yeah you have your own internal agency you're the only client as i want i know it's really fun when we started working on projects together um uh it was really it was really fun to kind of see your internal processes because i'm like oh yeah like my agency does that his agency does this is like fun to see but the thing that I loved um was uh you just have like a it's just like a submit form it's just a magic form anything you want like if you want a funnel a video a design anything magic goes literally like I kept asking questions because I'd be like okay because again for my agency I'm like okay I know I wear this hat but like this person wears this this this I'm like who do I talk to and they're like just put in the form just put it in the form and it comes right out and I'd be like okay we need video for this who do we ask put it in the form I'm like great and then you're like but it's so beautiful it's like shows you how an agency can work like you genuinely are so removed from the entire process and but I think the beautiful thing about it is you're in your right you're wearing the right hat and like for me like I kind of like to be involved in the process.
So I still want to wear this hat and this hat. And anyway, but I just think that's the beautiful thing too is you can – it's just a lever you can pull.
Like if you only want to do this on the weekends or before work or while your kids are napping, like because there's low-hanging fruit, you can still make money and it doesn't require a lot of time. Like you can still play.
Whereas if you want to make

this a full blown career where you're like, oh, I'm here and I'm managing all these people. Like

you can have a million dollar a year agency. And anyway, that's just what I love.
Again,

the game is accessible to anyone if you understand the patterns involved so that you can reach the

appropriate level fruit, I guess you could say. That was fun.
So again, this is like, I think coolest career, side hustle, whatever it might be. We had someone on the first VIP day who was like, I signed up for this because I wanted to do this as a side hustle.
They're like, I think this is going to be my career, right? Yes, exactly. Yes.
Yes, if you can make $500 on a weekend, you can make $500 a day, or whatever the numbers are, if you put the energy and effort into it. Okay, the next set of things I want to ask you about around this, because I know that there's the two sides of it right like can I do the actual funnels the second is like how do I find people to to to be clients like and so I'd love your ideas on and we have to go super deep but some ideas like how can someone find clients who are looking for the stuff so they can take those two things and and match them together yeah and and um I just I just have to say like for all of my analytical, logical friends who are like me, like this is the scariest part.
Um, but it's only scary again when you don't understand the pattern. And, and for me, like whenever I feel afraid about something, it says, it's like, Oh, I don't know the plan.
I like, don't know how I'm going to do it. But once you're like, Oh, that's how it works.
Then it's like, Oh, I'll just, it's just a number. Follow the steps.
And so for me, when I was like, okay, well, what actually is selling? Like, because I think selling can get a bad rap because people are slimy about it, right? Like they trick you into buying something that you don't want, or they convince you that you have a problem that you don't like, it can get really slimy, really fast. But when I think selling is done right, it means that somebody has a pain and you provide the remedy and both parties are happy at the end because the person with pain no longer has pain and the person with the remedy got compensated, right? And so for me, when I'm a funnel builder, right, like what does a funnel builder do? They build sales funnels, funnels that bring sales.
So when I'm looking, that's the remedy. I bring sales.
So when I'm looking for clients, what I'm actually doing is I'm looking for somebody in pain. And what is the specific pain I'm looking for? I'm looking for somebody that needs sales.
And the fun part is that that's everybody in business. Is there any company that doesn't need more sales? Exactly.
But the, but the, but the reality is, is, um, is that like, also everybody needs food, but like, depending on when you catch them in the day, somebody needs food more than other people need food. Right.
So like, if you haven't eaten for 24 hours, that person is in a lot more pain than somebody who's like, well, yeah, I need food later, but I just had breakfast, right? Like, and so what I like to do is like, yes, every business needs more sales, but there are some people that are in more pain than others. And the most beautiful thing is that people are typically loud about their pain and they gather.
Like, it's like scientifically proven that people with common interests and common pain gather together and like not just on person but primarily online and so like you for example you're like an amazing person that has gathered people of similar interests and therefore produce similar pains right then you're like build funnels online business blah blah but because you're new and they don't know right it's like oh i built a funnel but like it didn't it didn't like pan out the way that i want because they didn't understand the strategy or the asset or whatever. And so what I like to do is I literally just like go to like to go to the ClickFunnels group or like online business groups or internet marketing groups.
So they're on Facebook or, or I follow like YouTube people look for people in the comments or Instagram or whatever. But I literally just go and people will ask questions all the time.
Like literally just did this three day selling challenge. Every example I gave was an example that happened from the day or the day before.
Like I just literally went to the group and I said, Oh, look it, here's a person in pain. Like, look at the timestamp.
It happened four hours ago. Right.
Or like, Oh, look at this happened this morning. It happened at eight 27.
Like, and, and literally like what pain looks like is people are saying like, Hey, I'm this funnel is, I'm trying to get this funnel working. It's not working.
Or I want to sell this product, but I don't know how to start or blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.
And all of a sudden you're just looking, you're like, ding, ding, ding. That is a person in the pain that I can solve.
Like that's a person that needs more sales. And I know I have the skillset to build something that can bring them sales.
And so, um, and so when I think about it that way, just like a very logical approach, it's not like, Ooh, like I gotta go find somebody to give me money. It's like, no, I'm just going to go find somebody in pain and I'm going to be a homie about it.
And I'm not going to let them like wither on the side of the road. I know how to help them.
So I'm going to help them. And that can become the game.
And so it really becomes, I think so often we think like, well, what do I say in the sales pitch? How does it work? And yes, there's like an art and a science to selling, but at the end of the day, you're just a person helping a person. And so like going into the comments and saying like, hey, you need help.
I know exactly what you need. I'm an expert funnel builder.
Do you want to hop on a 15 minute call? Or Hey, I'm going to slide into your DMS. I'm in chat.
Sometimes I don't even get on a call with them. I'm like, let me just help you in the DMS.
We can just take care of this right now. But, but what I like to always say to my students is, is this concept like be 10% better.
You don't have to be amazingly better, but like be 10% better. So if like, let's say that there's like four people bidding for the attention of this person that needs help with their funnel, what happens if you send a video, like just like a selfie video, that's 15 seconds long rather than like, Hey, so what do you need help with? Dot, dot, dot.
Right. Like if you're like, um, like, Hey Sally, I saw your post.
I'm Catherine, like so excited for you. You're selling this product.
Awesome. It seems like you're kind of having a little bit of, uh, like a little bit of trouble.
Um, I kind of checked out your stuff. I actually have a really clear idea of what you might need to do looking forward.
Um, do you want to hop on a call right now? And then all of a sudden she sees that I'm not going to like abduct her. No stranger danger.
Right. Like I'm normal.
I like invested in her stuff and that's that. And it took me three extra minutes.
Then the guy that slid into her DMs and was like, Hey, I can help dot, dot, dot. You know, like, and you're like, I was like, I don't know.
Do I want to get on call with you? Anyway, so that so that's what I love and so I think for anybody freaking out just like realize it's not like some magic words to say it's just can you find somebody in pain and then just offer them the solution to the pain and be a normal human about it I think that's it one of my favorite example you know Ben Moot obviously I love on my team Ben I didn't eventually stole him and now he's like my right-hand man working on projects all the time but before that uh he was doing funnel like he was building funnels for other people and I asked him his process and it was so cool he's like everyone hears you talk about funnel hacking and everyone understands it but no one wants to do it so he's like I would offer to do funnel hacking for people so I charge I can't remember 300 bucks and so like someone was like trying yeah anyone ever seen a funnel that does this or you know like they they ask those questions he's like hey 300 bucks i'll go funnel hack 10 funnels for you and so they they like basically the ram and check 300 bucks he goes out there he will find 10 funnels same process we talked about right go start searching for things find them go through the process funnel hack them so he'd take these these 10 funnels and then send them back to the person like here's the 10 funnels and by the way if i was you based on these 10 i would do a funnel like this and you map out here's the strategy I would do um here you go and then the person's like whoa that's insane that's amazing and then the next question's like cool so you can do that on your own if you want you can hire me I can do that for you and like 95 percent of people who like he did the funnel build for hired him to do the thing later because like you know about this market you understand like you see the vision like this is it like you understand the strategy this is insane and it was just the most simple like non-threatening. Like I'll do the work and you can do funnel hacks for people for free.
Just like, I'm going to go do it for you for free. This is what, you know, just give the recommendation.
They're like you putting forth that effort is what gets the person. Like I'm, I can hire the 14 people that slid in my DMS, you know, saying, saying, how can I help you, sir? Versus, you know, the person who went out there and like did the data research and showed them like on a silver platter, this is what I would do if I was and like please help well and that's what i think about clients too i think we like uh like or even in selling launching a product if we build it up to be so much more than it is um and it's so interesting like even like uh like with getting healthier losing weight like everybody actually knows what to do what do you do you move more you eat less or eat better right like that at the end of the day that's what it is and there's always gonna be circumstances like some people have crazy hormones or whatever but like at the end of the day, like basically everyone knows at least more calories than you eat less or eat better, right? Like that, at the end of the day, that's what it is.
And there's always going to be circumstances like some people have crazy hormones or whatever. But like at the end of the day, like basically everyone knows at least how to- You burn more calories than you eat and you're probably going to lose weight.
Yeah, like we know that. And yet we still hire coaches over and over and over and over again.
Why? Because we're just like afraid. We're like afraid to take the steps or we need accountability to take the steps.
And I think about that so often with selling too. Like everybody knows what to do actually.
Like Like, I don't know how to find clients. You do know how to find clients.
Like, just go find somebody that's hurting and help them. But we're almost too afraid to do it.
And I always, I almost wonder, like, sometimes I'll make deals with myself. I had talked about this the other day with somebody with, when you were there, but I was like, like, you're not allowed to freak out and tell dot, dot, dot.
Where I'll be like, oh, like, what if the assignment isn't to make money? What if the assignment is more something I can control where I'm like oh I actually have to have conversations with 100 people and try to pitch 100 people on selling my service and only after 100 people am I able to freak out but like the assignment isn't to make money right now the assignment's just to go talk to 100 people and that is something I can control money happens, great. Like if it doesn't happen, whatever.
But like, um, I learned this phase, honestly, from dating. I learned it from my friend and she called it like, she called it the two week data to do a two week data where she's like, you know, sometimes you're dating a guy and you're like, I don't know.
And like, she's like, I just got so overwhelmed. Some days I'd be like, Oh, I love him.
The next I'd be like, he's so annoying. Right.
And she goes, I call it two week data. And she goes, we she goes for two weeks i'm not allowed to do anything i'm not allowed to feel happy sad whatever it's just data acquisition so if i have a great day on monday with him but he's kind of a loser on tuesday whatever data you know and then at the end of the two weeks i can look at all the data and be like oh it's like overwhelmingly positive or overwhelmingly negative and therefore i have enough data to make my decision i was like that's so smart she tell the guy before the day you got two weeks then we'll decide if we're gonna go on a third day.
I know, but I'm like, that's kind of genius. So I started implementing those principles.
You're not allowed to freak out until dot, dot, dot. Right.
And so it's like, okay, like before I call quits or sleep on this opportunity or decide to have a major freak out or whatever, it's two week data or whatever. It's I'll be like, okay, like until I pitch this X amount of times, it's just data and I'm not gonna, and, and even though it's hard, and like my nature is to attach, because you just, you put so much into it, right? Like my nature is to like attach my worth sometimes to like that funnel.
So if that funnel does great, I'm incredible. If that funnel does terrible, it's like, I've never done anything good in my life, you know? But when I like make these contracts for myself, it just like, because so much of the game of creation, like not just funnels, but creating anything in general.
There's like a like a physical production part to it. And then there's also this emotional component to it.
Like so many people have the skills to be incredible entrepreneurs and funnel builders, but they like lack the emotional fortitude to to actually start. Or there's a lot of people like I can do anything, but they never learn the skill set.
And so they kind of suck, too. Right.
And it requires both. And my, I actually start.
Or there's a lot of people that are like, I can do anything, but they never learn the skillset. And so they kind of suck too.
Right. And it requires both.
And my, I am definitely, I think more steady in my skills. Like I think my technical skills are like pretty great because I've done so many reps and sometimes I just get scared and I get nervous and I just like want to do such a good job for people and my family that like, I like can get quickly critical and like blah, and all these different things and so I just have to make deals with myself to be like Catherine remember it's all just a game and like it's all just to help you with this so like don't waste energy on that so you're not allowed to freak out until dot dot dot and so that might be something too of like people like considering this game before you even learn the skill set just go try to sell 10 people if somebody says yes then you'd be okay well i guess i'll go learn it now right like um but i i think that i think we build it up so much in our head because we're trying to make it something more than it is or if they say no to me they're they say no to this to this deal they're saying no to me when in reality what's actually happening we're trying to help people in pain be out of pain and that's all it is and so anyway so if any for anybody freaks out like me just i literally like write contracts and sign them with myself you're not allowed to freak out until dot dot dot june 17th i know and you want to know what's so interesting is when i get to the end of those contracts um whether it goes good or bad i'm not freaking out because it becomes a very logical non-emotional decision because i have data sets before me the emotion happens in the peaks and the valleys you know what i mean like you get a bunch of those and it starts usually it flattens out to the point where like now you make a decision that's not so scary well you know it's interesting so um McCall and Tanner my brother and sister-in-law they um they kind of they came and spoke a few days that you're selling online event and so they came back I was like tell me everything you know because I always want to hear these high end scenes I just love everything you guys you guys do.
And so they're telling me, and they're like, and they said,

you want to know one of my favorite things that I learned from Russell?

And I was like, what?

And you've been saying, like, this new selling online event is, like,

one of the best, highest converting funnels you've had in a while.

Like, it's just crushing it.

And so you sell this product at the end, and it was actually my brother that told me this.

He's like, man, I just loved it.

And he goes, because, like, all of a sudden they pitch, and they come off. And they come off and like it kind of took a while for like the first five sales to come through.
And and he's like, and when Russell heard that, it wasn't like, oh, shoot, only five sales. It was just like, OK, like and then they just moved on.
And then like you you don't freak out. Right.
And you like continue through the portion of it and you like had day two, day three or whatever afterwards. And like the follow-up sequences and that ends up becoming like one of your highest converting funnels.
But like there was an opportunity for you to be like, oh, like those first few sales didn't come in as quickly as we wanted to like, I'm calling quits. You guys suck.
Like, this is so bad. We got to rewrite the whole thing.
But like, we don't even like play it out long enough to see if it actually works and turns. And then it turns out to be like one of the best converting funnels.
And so like Tanner and McCall, they just came back and they just realized that like, oh, like we didn't realize like how much more steady we could be in this process because it is so fun. Like it's so rad when you have like the table rush and it's so awesome.
And you're like, oh my gosh, like I sold out this thing before I even got off live. Like it's so fun.
And also like people are people and sometimes people need time, whether to buy or whether you need time to learn how to do the skill. And then again, I just think there's just so much beauty and like allowing yourself time.
Don't pull the plug before you, before you even give yourself a chance to, to win. Yeah.
That's cool. That's what they got out of this.
That's fascinating. Okay.
So I know we're going to be doing another podcast interview here in a little bit, going deeper into traffic and joint ventures and partnerships and stuff. But I want to kind of wrap up this one with, obviously, we've been here this whole week doing the selling sales funnels challenge.
See, and you're better. You go for the tongue twister.
I just say, sell funnels. I kept saying sales funnels and everyone's like, okay, cool.
I'm like, no, no, like sell funnels. We are selling the funnels selling you've been talking about sell funnels for a decade russell it's not a big deal like no it's a big deal because s-e-l-l-s-e-l-l-s-e-l-e sells anyway it's either like the best or the worst idea we have if the name changes you guys will see i thought it was clever but i don't know very clever so the sell sells funnel challenge and i'm assuming hopefully we'll have an evergreen version up in the future so if you someone goes to sellfunnels.com, S-E-L-L.
Oh, sorry. Sellfunnelschallenge.com.
Yeah. Sellfunnelschallenge.com.
We may have an evergreen version. But for those who don't, we did during the challenge made an offer for somebody to come into our training, our certification program, which is kind of cool.
Behind the scenes, obviously, you had your design hacking program that you sold for years, four, five, six years now, and had tons of success helping people do that. Level number one, which is like finding a client, do the build that's anywhere from $100 to a couple thousand bucks, and you took that program, which was fun, is during those who watched it live, you went and showed like 20 minutes of screenshots of like, this guy's first challenge was like $100, $500,000.
Like this guy made $34 on his first funnel. Like all sorts of things.
There's this like person after person, right? So we took your program, which has been insanely helpful for people in our ClickFunnels community forever. And we took the ClickFunnels certification program, which dives deeper into like the strategy and all kinds of stuff.
And we smooshed them together into the coolest train program ever for someone who wants to learn how to like become a funnel builder,

to be certified, to be able to do this.

I love you just, I don't know, we have tons of time, but briefly talk about what the program is,

specifically kind of the timeline, because it's different than like, you're going to learn a whole bunch of stuff.

This is like, here's the sprint we're going on to get you to this result, this result, this result.

I love you kind of talk about what that looks like from the outside.

Yeah, well, at the end of the day, um, people opt in to sell sales funnels, um, because they want to make money. And so what we did, I, I flew to boys, we all worked together and we said, okay, there has to be three primary objectives that they determine all of anything that happens in this program.
It's, it's to make the funnel builder money. It's to make their clients money in both as quickly as possible.
And so if there's anything in this program that does not directly contribute to it it's fluff it's out how cool it is and i had some cool stuff and he did and i did have i did tell him kindly i was like russell it's amazing it's not for this program i'm like just sell to that make a pay more money for the different way our brains work so as you guys may or may not know um in the last 18 months i've bought in or so the last two years i 18 000 books i'm building a library i just want to have every piece of resource known to man at my fingertips in case i ever want it even though i'll probably never read most of them right and a lot of my programs that way it's like you have every resource you ever need and you first came you're like wow are people stressed out i'm like i don't i wouldn't be stressed out and you're like my brain does not look like a work, like a library. Mine works like a,

like a path.

That means that a path,

right? Like step by step.

Like,

let's take your library and let's plug just the pieces.

Someone needs to go from step one to result step.

And then from that result,

the next result.

Yeah.

Because I have like a very OCD checklist brain.

So like,

I think,

and like my husband,

my husband is a lot more like you,

where it stresses me out.

Like he could take a book and he'll just like skim through it and like read a few pages. And then he puts it back on the shelf.
And like, my brain is like, ah, what do you mean? Like, I'm like, you didn't read the book. Like I'm like, for my board to fill check Mark read for me.
I'm like, I read the cover. I read the acknowledgments.
If there's an appendix, I like to go through the appendix. It's like, it's not done.
Right. And so like for better or worse, that is how my brain works.
So when I go into a program that has like,

oh, and you also get access to this and this and this,

like I feel like I have to do it all before I can start.

And so for me, I'm like, oh no,

like please don't give it to me.

Like I'm here because I want this result

and I don't want anything else.

And so I've taught like people in other programs

and stuff like how to actually create a course

and the prompt I always give them.

And this is exactly the prompt

that we went through for this is,

I'm going to go to the bathroom. You're not allowed to leave until they achieve the result.
How are you going to get it for them? And at that point, you're not like, you know what, this would be a cool, like extra training. Like go watch that in the corner for a few hours and see it.
It's like, I need a sandwich. I'm starving.
Like get the job done. Right.
And so like, that's what I always like to think of. Like you, you will be locked in that room and eventually you will die if you don't eat.
And if you don't sleep, and then you're going to have to go to the bathroom, the corner is going to be ugly. Right.
So like how quickly can we get you to that result um and that's just like how i want programs to be made so that's how i make them myself and i think a lot of people are like that because there is so much information online and if you find a guru like you who like actually knows what they're doing it can be really wonderful but sometimes it really can be super overwhelming and i actually think that the best programs have both where you have like a very clear path and then if you want want to dive deeper, you want to become an expert in a certain thing, or you have like some like crazy extenuating circumstances, it's like, great, you got the library in the back. And that's what this new program is.
And so it just takes you, assuming you know exactly nothing, and you've made exactly $0 online, but you want to make money selling sales funnels online, it takes you from step zero to step one, step two to step step three and so what we focus on is okay great let's uh let's get you money as quickly as possible um and so rather than like learn the whole gamut of i need to learn design and then assets and then strategy and then optimization and then we'll go try and make money a lot like how college is like go through four years and then good luck we learn a micro skill and then we monetize the skill and then we learn a micro skill and then monetize learn micro and so like in my in my old program that we incorporated into here, people started what's called like the money by the weekend challenge because it's just like, okay, well, I just, I don't have to learn the whole thing. I just need to learn a little thing.
And like, can I, by the time I buy this on a Thursday to the time Sunday ends, like, can I go monetize this? And people do. It's like amazing.
So that's what it looks like. So we like first teach you all through design.
Like let's teach you how to design. Let's teach you how to monetize design.
And then you can decide at that point, do I want to build a full business out of this or do you want to learn the next step? And so if you do, then we teach you strategy and assets. It's where we dive really deep into your concepts.
But we put them in chronological orders. We take your beautiful library brain and for me, little OCD people.
You're step one. Yes, exactly.
So like you guys know, like I'm like going through his content. I'm like, okay, from minute 12 minutes and 14 seconds to minute 15 minutes and 11 seconds.
I'm like, don't clip that. That's what we need.
And I'm like, it's in the library. That's where it is.
You don't need it. Okay.
Because we're locked in the room anyway. But then we teach you strategy and assets and then we monetize it.
And then if you want to learn more, we teach you how to optimize, right? Like tweak this funnel headline here, blah, blah, blah, and then monetize it. And then if you want to scale it, we teach you the principles of building an agency so that you can scale and go from there.
And so that's what I love about this new program is that people do get results really quickly because it's learn, monetize, learn, monetize, learn, monetize, rather than like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And then like good luck monetizing.
Hope it works out for you. It's like, no, like the whole point is to make you, yeah, to get almost, it's almost like you get paid to learn.
It's like really, really amazing. So it's an amazing program.
It's so fun. It's been like so fun kind of morphing both of our frameworks and strategies together in like a really chronological order.
It's been like so fun. I'm proud of it because it's like something that like one of my sons, he's like, he's like, I think I could be a funnel builder.
Like this is something I can plug my kids into. If I had a friend or family member that lost their job, like I would buy this for them.
Like if, you know, because again, it's not something that's like a lot of programs I have is like you're going to learn how to become an expert and how to write, know that takes a lot of time there's a lot of things have to happen for you to be able to do this this is like you're leveraging other people's stuff you're coming in and just being that key integral part that makes it go live for them because you don't have to be the face of it you don't have to provide a product like you let other people provide the product you just build a selling machine yeah and so it really is amazing so we honestly have had 10 year olds go in stephan you've talked about her. She's like really being in the community.
Her kids have gone through it. Like it's been like a really beautiful thing.
But because it is step-by-step, whether you are a 10-year-old or in your 60s or 70s or you've never done anything before or homeless, like every single one of those avatars have been through the program and made money with it because it's just like don't try to learn the whole thing. Just learn step one.
Did you do step one? Which badge do people usually make their first dollar buy? So we like broke up the program and made money with it because it's just like don't try to learn the whole thing just learn step one did you use which badge people usually make their first dollar buy so i so we like broke up the program right and so like from um so i again because i'm trying to get us out of the room as quickly as possible so we don't die i like broke everything up into micro challenges and so um people on average are 15 to 20 hours away from their first sale and so that that's over the course of like six little challenges that some people can do it in 15 to 20 hours straight, or you can do over a week or over a month. But like, depending how much time you put into is, is that's where most people are getting their first sale in the 15 to 20 hour mark.
And that's what I really love. Like when we were going through the challenge today, I was like, like the average college degree takes you 1800 to 2400 hours.
And that's over four years. And you don't get paid.
You're not getting paid. not getting paid and even at the end you might not get paid right but like what we're saying is not only are you learning a skill set you're actually monetizing the skill set in 15 to 20 hours and people are like that seems too good to be true what does this look like and like what i have to tell them is because it's a step-by-step process it's because there's such high demand and it's because we're not trying to learn the whole We're doing the lowest hanging fruit.
And again, like some people wouldn't believe me. So what I would do is I would like, I like one of the biggest ways I sold this product was through joint ventures.
So I love this. I would like go into people's groups.
I would pitch the product. And then what I would do is me and my assistants, we would wait and we'd like get the email list of everybody that joined.
And we'd like stock them in my Facebook group over two weeks and to get to like earn a badge, it'd have to like take a screenshot and post in the group. And so then what I do is I'd go back into that same group I pitched in two weeks later.
And I would literally just be like, here's the 46 people. Yeah.
So I wouldn't even agree. Like once I learned this, I'd never agree to do a joint venture unless they'd let me come do a repitch because we do 25 to 100% of sales.
Same thing. Cause we just go, we'd stock people and in two weeks time, they'd already get results.
And then we'd come back in and we'd be like, the only reason we could think that you didn't join this program is cause you thought it'd be too good to be true and be like, you want to see what your own can, what your own people have done in the last two weeks. And we just be like, they did this, they did this, this person made money.
They did this, they did this, they did this. Like, do you believe me? Like they did this, they did this.
And be like, okay, like you're, whoever your group layer is so awesome. They decided to open it up again.
So up again so three more days and we do again like 25 to 100 percent of original sales but that is also the beauty of like uh of this skill set that by the reason i tell that story is just to show that when you when you break down process when you break down the skill of funnel building into design into assets into strategy into optimization into agency rather than trying to learn the whole thing once, you can monetize from the very beginning and get paid to learn more and learn more and learn more as you grow your business. The coolest thing ever.
So I'm pumped for everyone who's on the challenge. They had a chance to go for the last three days through this.
We made a special offer. Most people jumped in and are going on that path, which is really cool for people on the podcast.
Obviously, number one, hopefully we have an evergreen version of the challenge. If you go to sellfunnelschallenge.
challenge.com you'll be able to see that in the near future but if you're like this sounds like the thing for me i want this to be my career i want to go dive in i want to go through that i want to get on the the the path do you remember the link oh you bet it's in grants tattooed on my arm i'm not just kidding funnel builder www.funnel builders with an s.com forward slash all in all in okay so grab it if you're at home listening to your car, pull over real quick, grab a pad of paper and say one more time. Funnelbuilders.com forward slash all in.
All in. So check it out there.
And there's a spot where you can go and you can get started and jump into the path. Hang out with Russell Strategies mixed with my OCD brain.
I mean, what could be better? Come on, guys. Come on.
And if you're an adult and you're like, I got a kid who's useless, like plug him into the program. Like I'm just kidding.
But if you have somebody struggling, like this is like you talked about your dad. You're working with your dad.
Your dad's like, we need this. And he plugged you into our first version of this program, which helps you go through this.
Right. Like, so for any of you guys, it's like, it could be for you.
It could be for spouse. It could be for a kid.
Like be it for Christmas or birthday present for somebody. Like this could be their future.
This could be their career, right? You can go give them a college education and spend, you know,

what a 60 grand a semester at Duke or whatever, or Princeton,

or for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction,

I give them this thing that within 20 hours they can make their first sale and then keep going and keep going and growing into it.

And this could be the coolest career in the world.

This career opens up so many cool doors.

Like that's how I met Tony Robbins because of the skill sets.

That's how I met most of the famous people I know is because of this skill. Because they had a product, but they needed a funnel to sell it.
Right. I remember when Tony Robbins launching his book, he hadn't launched a book in 20 years.
It was the, his first finance book. And so, you know, Tony's a busy guy.
I'd met him a couple of times before. I know him great.
And I just sent him, shot him a text message. Dude, you're launching a book.
Do you have a book funnel? What's a book funnel? And you're like, ding, ding, ding. The next thing I know, Tony Robbins calls me on the phone.
Hey, you need a book funnel. What's a book funnel? This is how it works.
He's like, what would it take to build one? I'm like, well, I have the software. ClickFunnels builds funnels, but I need to film you.
So I'm doing all the sales videos. So can we hang out? Can I film you? I was like, can I come spend a day at your house and film me? He's like, nope.
And I'm like, okay, well, how can I film you? He's like, I'm speaking in Las Vegas next week. I can give you an hour in a hotel room.
I was like, done. And a week later, I'm in a hotel room filming Tony Robbins.
We put together a book funnel, launched on ClickFunnels. He loved the platform.
At the hotel, we showed him the whole thing. He loved it.
Next Funnel Hacking Live, he speak. It was just like crazy because I was like, he needs a book funnel.
I know how to build a book funnel. Hey, man, you have a book funnel? Boom, opens a huge door, right? Like, anyway, so it'll change your life.
Yeah, this skill set's the number one thing you all need to learn and master. So anyway, thank you for hanging out with me.
Well, thanks for introducing me to this world. What a beautiful place it is.
It's so awesome. It's so much fun.
So, all right, everyone who's been listening to Home, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you do and you're ready to get started, go to funnelbuilders.com slash all in.
Or if you want to watch the whole challenge, hopefully have an evergreen version up soon.

Go to sell, S-E-L-L, sellfunnelschallenge.com.

Nailed it.

There you go.

All right.

Thanks, Captain.

Appreciate you.

See you guys all soon.