Unlocking the Secrets to a Profitable Funnel Agency with Kathryn Jones Lish

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Speaker 2 What's up, everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the podcast formerly known as the Marketing Secrets Podcast.
Now probably going to be shifting to the Selling Online podcast.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I'll update it by the time you guys listen to this episode, but that's one of my evil plans.

Speaker 2 So anyway, we're working on a rebrand right now of the show, but I want to welcome you guys on the show today. Today, we're going to be talking about

Speaker 2 one of my favorite topics wrapped in a really cool wrapper. Obviously, you know, my favorite thing in this world, besides my wife and kids, and wrestling,

Speaker 2 and sushi. Oh, this beats sushi for sure.
My favorite thing is sales funnels.

Speaker 2 Today we're going to talk about selling sales funnels how can you become a funnel builder and actually get paid uh as a career building funnels for other people and um i the last couple days we've actually been doing a challenge here inside the click funnels office called the sell sales funnels challenge which has been so much fun and i have had catherine jones lish up here who's someone who came through one of our very first certification programs back in the day she learned how to sell sales funnels made a huge career out of it and then uh since then we decided to partner up with her program and our program to make something insane and this podcast episode is going to be giving you guys guys some of the core beats of what we talked about during this challenge.

Speaker 2 But hopefully you guys introduce you guys to a really cool opportunity, which is the fact that you can make a career out of building sales funnels for other people. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 So that said, let's jump in the podcast and hang out with Catherine Jones Lish.

Speaker 2 In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online.

Speaker 2 This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

Speaker 2 All right, so today, you guys, I'm excited to be here with Catherine Jones Lish, which now we've added a new last name.

Speaker 5 Can you believe it? Your girl got married. I know.
No one thought it could happen. Myself included.
God is good. Congratulations.

Speaker 2 Thank you. It's been a couple of years now.
This is old news.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you got a baby now, too. I do, in fact, have a baby.

Speaker 2 All right, well, let's jump. Sorry.
A lot of people just jumped on the podcast. They don't know what we're even talking about right now.
So I'm going to take a step back.

Speaker 2 So I'm excited to be hanging out with Catherine today. And she's someone who, when did you first come into the ClickFunnels ecosystem, our world? I don't even know if you're in the world.

Speaker 5 It was 2015.

Speaker 2 2015. Okay,

Speaker 5 yeah, 2015, maybe 2016.

Speaker 5 I was like just learning about

Speaker 5 making money online. I was using lead pages.
Forgive me. I didn't know.

Speaker 2 You put them out of business.

Speaker 5 I know, I know you seriously did, but that's what I was using for anybody listening.

Speaker 5 And I, you know, when you're like in that phase of business where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm doing everything. And I'm on every webinar that's ever existed.

Speaker 5 So I was on a public speaking webinar, and it was at the very end, and it was a QA. And somebody in the chat asked, What software did you use to build, say, pitch a product at the end?

Speaker 5 What software did you use to build your order form page? And just like on a one-off, the guy is like, Oh, use ClickFunnels. And he just like went on.
And I was like, Click what?

Speaker 5 Yeah, and I just like had never heard about it. So I just like googled it, or so I just like looked it up.
And then, of course, you know, you're retargeting me.

Speaker 5 I got like an email for your dot-com secrets book, read the book, cried in my college drawer room because I was like, finally, this all makes sense to me.

Speaker 5 And then, you know, one thing after another, it's like amazing. Anybody that's following you, it's like, you tell us what you're doing to sell us.

Speaker 5 And we even know what's happening when it's happening. And you're like, dang it! You're like, here's my money.
I even know what you're doing. It's not even like mind tricks.
You're like, crap.

Speaker 5 Anyway, so it started with the book, and then I've gone through all your programs. And anyway, now we're partnering and doing fun stuff now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's so cool.

Speaker 2 So, what we're going to talk about this podcast, and by the way, for those who are going to be hearing in, I'm going to be two episodes with Catherine today.

Speaker 2 She's here in Boise because we just finished a challenge together called the Sell Sales Funnels. So, Sell S-E-L-L and Sales S-A-L-E-S funnels.

Speaker 2 The Sale, Sell Funnels challenge about selling, sales, funnels, because

Speaker 2 there's so many opportunities in the funnel world, right?

Speaker 2 There's you can be a funnel builder, you can be a copywriter, you can build drone funnels, you can do e-commerce or info product, all sorts of stuff, but one of the coolest, I think,

Speaker 2 opportunities that's out there that most people don't even know about is the fact that you can sell funnels as a living. You can build funnels and sell them, and you can, and you can make this.

Speaker 2 And so for you, one of the first things, I mean, you did other things, but one of the things that you did initially was actually start building funnels for other people and doing stuff like that.

Speaker 2 And I'd love to hear just the translate or the transition from you, like learning about funnels to like, I don't know if there's a moment or aha of like I could actually do this for people and get paid

Speaker 2 and this could be a career for me.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so

Speaker 5 yeah, so honestly like how the whole thing started, I like never envisioned myself as an entrepreneur.

Speaker 5 I was just in college and I kind of bounced around majors, but they're all art majors. I was like a piano performance major and then I was a film major.
Like I'm just bouncing around.

Speaker 5 And then I went and served a mission for my church. I served in LA and I served in like kind of ritzy areas like Beverly Hills, Belair and then like in Compton and Watts.
And And I remember

Speaker 5 Yeah, exactly. And I remember coming home and like as a true millennial, I'm like, I'm almost embarrassed to say this.
I'm like so contributing to the stereotype.

Speaker 5 But I just came home and I was like, I don't know what I want to do. I just want to help people, you know?

Speaker 5 And I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that it would be easier to help people if I had money.

Speaker 5 So I came back, I went to my university, and I was like, hey, I want to switch my degree to business. And they were like, you have way too many credits.
Like, you got to get out.

Speaker 5 You know, you got to finish your major. And it ended up, again, like, just being the best thing that ever happened to me because I was like, well, I guess I got to figure out by myself.

Speaker 5 I didn't know what that meant. So I started reading like investing books and personal finance books.
And you know, like, one of my favorite guys is Ramit.

Speaker 2 I was gonna say he ever beats you.

Speaker 5 Yeah, like one of my favorite authors ever is, um, his name is Ramit Sati. He writes like personal finance.

Speaker 2 He's got a Netflix series.

Speaker 5 He has a Netflix series. And he's just like a step-by-step guy.
For me, I was just like, he's like, number one, put your money here, number two. And I was like, thank you.
Like, find something.

Speaker 5 What's his book?

Speaker 2 Like, it's called How to Get Rich, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I will teach you to be rich.

Speaker 5 Great book. Recommend.
10 out of 10 to everyone. He's like so awesome.
Anyway, and so, and then, you know, you like start getting in all this stuff. I'm starting getting ads.

Speaker 5 And it kind of like bleeds into personal development, which bleeds into internet marketing. You know, like all the ads.
And I didn't know what was happening.

Speaker 5 I remember seriously being like, I'm like getting emails. I'm like, how are these people getting my email? And the thing that's crazy is I had to put it in somewhere, you know?

Speaker 5 I just like, I didn't understand how it worked. I was like, this is, or like, I'd like search for something, and then I'd get an ad.
I'd be like, that's not. How did that know?

Speaker 2 I didn't know.

Speaker 5 I didn't know about like pixels and retargeting anyway. But one thing led to another.
I'm like, I'm, they're like, people are offering me courses. And, and again, I'm just like, I got to make money.

Speaker 5 I just like got to figure out how to make money.

Speaker 5 And another one of the big polls, like, one of the reasons why my soul just like kind of lit on fire when I found internet marketing was at the same time. So I grew up as the second oldest of eight.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 so yeah, so my mom was pregnant for all the 90s. So God bless her.
What a queen. She's awesome.
But I loved it.

Speaker 5 I didn't know anything different, but I just, I truly, like, somehow they, my parents are so cool. We ended up all being friends.
It was amazing. So I always knew that I wanted to be a parent.

Speaker 5 And but I also knew I like felt this thing inside my soul that like wouldn't go away.

Speaker 5 That like, I call it like my, I just wanted to take over the world, you know, like I wanted to help and serve and contribute and grow.

Speaker 5 And so I knew that I wanted to have impact outside of my home, but I also knew I wanted to be a really present parent.

Speaker 5 And just like logistics-wise, I didn't know how it looked like until I discovered the internet. I was like, oh my gosh.
So I discovered internet marketing.

Speaker 5 And that's one of the big reasons why I cried when I read your book, because it wasn't like, yeah, internet marketer. I'm so emotional.

Speaker 5 It was like, oh, my gosh, like, if I'm not an idiot about how I build this thing, like, maybe I actually could simultaneously, like I said, like have impact inside and outside of my house.

Speaker 5 And so, anyway, so again, I didn't know exactly what form that looked like. I'm on all these different things.
I'm like launching courses. and like I didn't even know I don't even have skills, right?

Speaker 5 But I was like, I don't know. So the first course that I launched, it was to young adults on social skills, which you can, you guys can all judge whether or not I should be selling that.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 But I was like, I don't have any, I don't know anything.

Speaker 2 You see a course on social skills.

Speaker 5 Yeah, like so, like, and like, how not to be awkward. And like, I just, I didn't know.
I was like, but I have to like practice. I have to like try.
And I sold the course for like 127 bucks.

Speaker 5 I think I made six sales. It was, I didn't, I spent more on like softwares and learning and courses to do it, but like like I got in, you know, I got in the game.

Speaker 5 And anyway, so then I discovered funnels and which I was just, it was just so systematic to my brain who just craves, you know, order and structure.

Speaker 5 And I was just like, crap, that just makes so much sense to me. Like, you just put things in an order.
You know, it's like a step-by-step process, a step-by-step series of web pages.

Speaker 5 And so I started to do it for myself. And then also I realized I could do it for other people.

Speaker 5 And then I discovered you had a certification program. And I actually was working for my dad at the time.
So my dad was an entrepreneur as well.

Speaker 5 And my grandpa was like a huge entrepreneur. And then my dad bought his company.
And so then I was working. Anyway, like this whole thing.

Speaker 2 Whole family.

Speaker 5 I love it. I love it.

Speaker 5 But yeah, but my grandpa was like an entrepreneur in like the 60s and 70s. It was like a totally different game.
But I learned about this program.

Speaker 5 So I told my dad, I was like, dad, you got to read this book. Right.
And so I like got it on that. And so I also got my dad on Ramit.

Speaker 5 So we always, whenever we'd have a business question, we'd always be like, what would Father Ramit and Uncle Russell do? We'd like always, like, that's what we do.

Speaker 5 So my dad, like, we'd have him run a present. He's like, what does Uncle Russell think? I was like, I don't know.
Let me go check his book. Like, we didn't know you, you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 Like, it was like, like, 10 years ago. But, my dad, who's always like, like, even today, I was like calling him last night.
He's like, How's Uncle Russell? I was like, he's doing great, dude.

Speaker 5 Like, I love him. Like, he's so awesome.

Speaker 2 One of the funny stories, this is obviously, you know, this, but I was at an airport somewhere. I don't know.
And usually nowadays, I get spotted different places and stuff.

Speaker 2 Like, and some guy who's very tall. How tall is he? 6'4 ⁇ .
Yeah, way taller than me. He walks up and taps me on the shoulder.
And he's like, hey, excuse me.

Speaker 2 I don't want to be awkward or weird, but my daughter's Catherine Jones or something. I was like, oh, hey.

Speaker 5 Randomly, some airport I can't remember we were at just some random airport so anyway yes I met your dad for real yeah so we're so yeah so the Jones family is fans of Uncle Russell anyway so it was great and so then um it was actually my dad that discovered the certification program because of course he got on all your email stuff and he was like we need this for my business I need this for all my other businesses like if I paid for you to do this would you do it for us and I was like oh my you know I'm obsessed because I'm like working for him and I'm like doing my own stuff I was like yes so I do it and I end up building funnels for them which was awesome and at the same time I was getting clients on the other side It was awesome.

Speaker 5 I ended up finding like two or three people that were ads people and they were really good at ads and they needed funnels. And I would just like build lead funnels.
They just pay me 500 bucks a pop.

Speaker 5 And so like after work and lead funnels are so easy. So after work and I was good at design.
So they look good. So they would pay me.

Speaker 5 And so after work and on the weekends, I would just pound out however many leads came in. So anywhere from like one to 10 lead funnels a weekend because they're so easy.

Speaker 5 You know, you just like duplicate it, put it in, put it on the right stuff. And so I would just like make all this money on the side.
And I was like, oh, nice.

Speaker 5 And anyway, so that's kind of how I started. And then I started finding my own clients and it was awesome.

Speaker 5 But then people started asking me, like, why do your funnels look so good? Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what does this look like? And

Speaker 5 again, my systems brain turned it into a framework, turned it into a course and everything from there. But

Speaker 5 that's how it started is I was just desperate to find a way to be like, can I build a business that allows me the flexibility, the actual monetary gain, the influence to have impact inside and outside my house.

Speaker 2 It's always fascinating to me how people come to our world because there's so many different ways. Like for you, it's dot-com secrets, then funnel.

Speaker 2 Some people, it's like they read expert secrets and they that's like, that's their calling, or everyone's got a different past in. It's always fun to see.

Speaker 2 Now, you told a story, the very first funnel I can live, you spoke at, you told a story. And I love for you to share it just because it's probably a little vulnerable, not as much nowadays, but

Speaker 2 a lot of people, when they get started in entrepreneurship, the people that are closest to them, the most important usually are the ones who reject it, right?

Speaker 2 It could be a spouse, it could be a family member, it could be an ex-boyfriend, could be whatever. But I know you went through that.

Speaker 2 And you tell a part of the story because I think hopefully it'll help other people who who hit that.

Speaker 2 I see so many people who are entrepreneurial who fill that call to contribution, but then there's someone around them

Speaker 2 who kind of knocks them off the path. And a lot of times they don't come back from it.
And you did, which is interesting.

Speaker 5 Oh my gosh. Yeah, with many stumbles.
Yeah. So yeah, here I am.
I'm in college, right? And

Speaker 5 like, I can't, I cannot explain to you how X among the O's I was. Like, literally,

Speaker 5 I, yeah, it was just so crazy. And so, yeah, I'm like working, but like, I'm staying up late.
My friends are asking me to go out.

Speaker 5 I'm like, sorry, gotta watch a webinar, you know like I was yeah, anyway, I was just living such a different life, but I ended up meeting this boy and You know when you meet someone you're like thank like thank you like you're so easy to talk to He was like was so charismatic He's really kind.

Speaker 5 He was just like he was a good boy anyway, and so we date for eight nine ten months and we start talking about getting married and like I can't tell you how happy I was like I don't know if you've been dating someone someone's like starts talking about that and you're like oh I well I'm not as

Speaker 5 you but we started talking about I was like yes like it felt so good I felt so awesome and um and so so it was just like really fun and exciting.

Speaker 5 And then in like our second or third conversation about it, he said to me, he's like, Catherine, like, I got to bring something up to you

Speaker 5 about getting married. And, you know, I'm like, what is it? You know, I'm like, I'm thinking he's like, venue, you know, like, damn, honeymoon.
And I was like, yeah, what, like, what is it?

Speaker 5 And he looked at me and he's like, I doubt your ability to mother because of your business aspirations. And I was like, What? And at this point, I discovered funnels.

Speaker 5 I actually was on my own at this point. I wasn't working for my dad anymore.
So I was on my own doing a full-fledged full-fledged thing, full-fledged agency. I just launched a best-selling book.

Speaker 5 And it was kind of like the first time I was like, I'm doing this. Like, this is happening.
Yeah, like, I'm in.

Speaker 5 And, um, and so he, we were kind of dating at like kind of my first rise, you might say, from like, I don't know what I'm doing to like, I'm actually making a full-time income.

Speaker 5 And he, so he repeated, he's like, yeah, I doubt your ability to mother because of all of your business aspirations. And like, he said that to me.

Speaker 5 And like, I couldn't, like, it was, I like, couldn't understand it. I was like, what do you, what do you mean? And he's just like, if we're going to do this, like, you got to be home.

Speaker 5 Like, it's just, that's, that's how I want to raise my kids. That's how I want to raise my family.
And, like, all credit to him, like, his mom was gone all growing up.

Speaker 5 She was a nurse and she worked and his dad left them. So, like, I get it.
Like, I, I, I get where he came from. And, but the way that he expressed it was like, you're done.
It's over.

Speaker 5 Like, you don't get a choice. Like, you're at home.
And for me, the way that that felt was like, you're never going to expand. You're never going to grow.
You don't get to develop as a human.

Speaker 5 And that doesn't mean that you don't do that with parenting. I think it's like almost exponential or more.
But it was just this fact that he was like, I'm deciding your life.

Speaker 5 And, and that somehow business became evil. Like me trying to serve and contribute and make money, like it, it got painted in this, like, you're doing a bad wrong thing.
You should not want that.

Speaker 5 Like, you're not pursuing, like, the way you phrase it was like, you're not pursuing the path of God because you should just want to be with your kids, you know? And it just like, it.

Speaker 5 It was so crazy because I was like, I'm going to marry this kid. And to have somebody that I loved and trusted and I'd like opened my heart to to him in that way, I was like, oh, he doesn't get it.

Speaker 5 Like, he doesn't understand or see the situation. I understand because the whole reason I got into this was, again, like impact inside and outside my home.
Like, I felt the calling to do both.

Speaker 5 And anyway, needless to say, like, it just, we couldn't ever get on.

Speaker 5 He couldn't see how I saw it. And I could not see how he saw it.
And it just like, it ended up not working out. And I like genuinely was depressed for like six months.

Speaker 5 Like, I'm usually like a get back up on the horse kind of girl and I could not get back up on the horse.

Speaker 5 I was just like, and I think so much of it was because because it was like so identity-crushing for me, where I really did question, like, am I doing the wrong thing?

Speaker 5 And so much of that was because I'd never seen anybody do what I was trying to do. Like, and I know that sounds so crazy because there are like a ton of female entrepreneurs, but like a lot of them.

Speaker 5 Um, and again, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. I think everybody's path is the smartest, again, it's their best educated guests, they're like doing what they're supposed to do.

Speaker 5 But the way I wanted to do it was, like, can I build systems so that like a nanny isn't raising my kid, but me and my husband are raising our children?

Speaker 5 And I'm, again, I'm like not married, I don't have kids, that's my bad. I just like felt it in my soul so much.
But I started to question, like, am I wrong for wanting this? Like, is that bad of me?

Speaker 5 And, and it's so interesting because I think that like men and women both think about this differently, you know, like, I think just like based on the Industrial Revolution and like so many things like gender roles, I've just like become what they've become.

Speaker 5 And, and I think there's actually a lot of beauty in them, um, but I also think they're that that they're not set, you know? And so, like, it was really interesting.

Speaker 5 Um, I just felt like I want to make sure that I contribute out to the home. I I want to make sure I contribute in.
And I want a husband that actually wants the same too.

Speaker 5 Like I want a husband that wants to be with our kids, you know, that like doesn't just get to see them at these times and these times. I mean, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong.

Speaker 5 It was just what I wanted. But I really started to question whether it was.
And so I just am like diving into like any material I can find about parenting.

Speaker 5 Because I started to think like, am I seeing this wrong? Like am I being selfish for that? Am I like seeing this the wrong way? Am I seeing business the wrong way? Am I seeing parenting the wrong way?

Speaker 5 Like is it possible to do both? So I'm diving into like any parenting book from like New York Times bestsellers to like the good word, you know, everything in between.

Speaker 5 And what I found like the theme over and over and over again was that

Speaker 5 the ultimate role of a parent is to nurture. And do you know what the definition, do you know what the definition of nurture is? It's to enable and to provide opportunity.

Speaker 5 And I remember when I learned that definition, I was like, well, what in the world is entrepreneurship then? Enabling and providing opportunity. That is exactly what you're doing.

Speaker 5 That's exactly what I'm doing. And so I thought, once I understood that, I was like, okay, old boyfriend, sit down, you know, because I was like, then I could see that

Speaker 5 me being an entrepreneur, which was enabling and providing opportunity, was only refining myself for what I was doing inside the home, which was enabling and providing opportunity.

Speaker 5 And that what I was doing inside the home would one day sharpen what I was doing outside and outside and inside. And so, and all of a sudden I was just like, it's actually just the same game.

Speaker 5 It's just like, where are you putting your focus?

Speaker 5 And once I learned that, then all of a sudden I was like, it makes sense that my soul is like yearning to like enable enable and provide opportunity for my children and for others.

Speaker 5 Like, it wasn't like, oh, I want to be a business owner and I want to be a mom. I was like, I'm just actually looking at this all the wrong way.

Speaker 5 What I want to do is do what I think we've been like divinely programmed to do. Like, God is the creator of this earth, right? We learned like Genesis 1.

Speaker 5 That's the first thing he teaches us is, I, God, am your father.

Speaker 5 And so I made you, and I made the earth. Like, I'm creator, I'm a creator.
I enable, I provide opportunity. And so I think as his children, right, enable, provide opportunity.

Speaker 5 And it just like made so much clarity for me so that when I found people that encountered me or my path of life, whether it was somebody I was dating or a culturemate or a family member or whatever, it like, it was just okay.

Speaker 5 It was just like, I felt grateful. I felt like God led me to truths that like in my mind and heart, like it made sense to me.
It felt right in my heart. I prayed about it.
I was like, that is true.

Speaker 5 That is, I think, why I feel called to do all these things. And if you see it differently, that's just also okay too.

Speaker 5 And I'm like here to believe that like God might might have called you to live a different life. And that's only rad that you're following that.
But for me, it just really took me to understand.

Speaker 5 What it took me to was getting to the depth of the question is, why am I trying to do what I'm trying to do? Like, why am I so obsessed with being on these webinars?

Speaker 5 Why am I so obsessed with trying to learn how to make money online? And it made me kind of like pull back the fact that like,

Speaker 5 do I really want money? And it's like, yes, and what? Like, do I really want status? Well, sure, but what?

Speaker 5 You know, and then when I got to the bottom of it, I was like, what my my soul yearns for, like yearns for, like, what actually fills it is enabling, providing opportunity.

Speaker 5 And then when I could see that, and even now that I am married and have a child, like, that is the game. Like, what's the balance in terms of where I put my focus? But that is the skill set.

Speaker 5 Like, that's what I'm doing. And hopefully on this podcast, hopefully when I see my baby in an hour, right? Like,

Speaker 5 how can I enable Lucy and provide opportunity for Lucy in the next four and a half hours before she goes to bed? That's my job.

Speaker 5 And then while I'm on this podcast, how can I enable and provide opportunity for everybody that listens to this? That's my job right now.

Speaker 5 Anyway, so yeah, so I think it is just brutal when people don't have the same eyesight as you, but I also think it's a gift because it forces you to say, well, why do I see things so differently than you?

Speaker 5 And am I wrong in that? Or do we just have different views? And it's just okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think God's made a lot of different people, a lot of different things. And it's like, for each of us, it's important to find like what we're specifically called to do, you know, and how it works.

Speaker 2 It's my story is not nearly as cool as yours, but I had kind of a similar experience where I had run my business for like, I don't know, 15 years.

Speaker 2 And I always been like, there's business and then there's like the spiritual things in life and they are separate. And I, I had a big divider.
And I had a really good coach.

Speaker 2 And she, she one time, I can't remember what the conversation. I just remember she was like, you don't see it, right? I'm like, see what?

Speaker 2 She's like, like, the thing that you built, like, that is your calling from God. I was like, what are you talking about? God doesn't care if I make money or if I help people make money.

Speaker 2 She's like, and she was one of our clients. So she's like, you don't understand?

Speaker 2 She's like, yes, you helped me make money, but she's like do you realize what you actually gave my husband and i like what she's like we were in bondage and you came in you showed us how to make money which freed us and now because that we go on mission trips we serve people we church serve our church we're able to donate money like all these things because you you like freed the shackles of this and she's like this is the calling god has given you to do this to these to people to do it to us so you change our life because of that and i was like i never even in my mind considered that they were together.

Speaker 2 And for me, as soon as I realized, I was like, I believe now that like what I'm doing, I believe what you're doing, I believe it is a calling from God.

Speaker 2 Like, if you feel that call to contribution, that's what Sharfin calls it, Alec Sharfin's like, this call to contribution.

Speaker 2 I love the way he says, like, it's like, if you feel that that call to contribution, like, that is God putting these things in your heart like to pull you towards something, right? That call.

Speaker 2 And even though it doesn't make sense, it's like your role in his whole grand scheme of things is to do this piece, right? And it opens up doors for other people. So thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 2 That was not the direction I was planning on going, but I think valuable for everybody listening.

Speaker 5 Hang in there.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So let's get into, again, we talked about funnel building as an opportunity and as a career

Speaker 2 because I think this is the thing that obviously what we've done in the last three days here, we've been doing this selling, sales, funnels challenge to help show that to people that this is a real thing that they can do, that it can become a career for them.

Speaker 2 I think that people hear about that. Some people get excited and they run.
Some people get nervous and like, how does this actually work? And there's all this fear.

Speaker 2 But I would love to kind of go through the

Speaker 2 almost like the levels of it.

Speaker 2 With you, when you first,

Speaker 2 the program I first became familiar with you, you had launched your design hacking school teaching people that level. And then there's different levels, though, right?

Speaker 2 So like, let's talk about that first level. Like, someone wants to come in and they want to learn, like, they want to start making money.

Speaker 2 Maybe they love funnels, the idea of funnels, they want to figure it out, like, how, what's that first level look like for them to be able to start an actual business doing this for other people?

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's what I love about this,

Speaker 5 I call it a game of like building and selling funnels, is that there are levels to it. So there's some things like brain surgery.
They're not not levels.

Speaker 5 Like if you only know like parts one through two, you should not operate on somebody's brain, right? But that's a beautiful thing about funnels is that it actually really is broken up.

Speaker 5 So if you only have mastered kind of this first skill, you can still monetize it. And then you can master another skill and monetize it.

Speaker 5 And so what I learned really easy, again, my like framework brain, like, because what a funnel is, if anybody doesn't know, right?

Speaker 5 It's just like a series of web pages strung together and it acts as a 24-7 salesperson for you. And so again, they're just like baby stepping, holding the hand of somebody through the sale.

Speaker 5 And so what you want to do as a funnel builder is like figure out like, okay, well, what do I need to put on page one to get them to buy?

Speaker 5 And then what do I need to get on page two to get them to upsell? What do I need to value on three? Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 And so my systematic brain was like, okay, well, what's the patterns in this? And ultimately, like what a funnel all comes down to is you need to have a strategy.

Speaker 5 And then, so like, what actual pages am I putting together? Almost like an instruction sheet. And then you need to have the assets.
So like, what are the words?

Speaker 5 Like, what actually am I going to type on the pages? Do I need a video on there? Do I need images? So you need all like the materials.

Speaker 5 And then you actually need to assemble them all together, like design.

Speaker 5 I always say like building a funnel is like IKEA furniture like you need a set of instructions and you need all the misassembled pieces like video ads or like screws and and wood and then you actually like need to put it together so it looks into something good

Speaker 5 and um and I think for so long the skill was taught of like you need to be a master at strategy and you need to be a master at assets and a master at design which is hard to do oh well it just takes a while like it just takes a second right um and especially if you're like doing it on your own right and don't have you as a coach but like it can just take a second and and and people are like yeah but like, maybe it's not.

Speaker 5 But I always like to go back to IKEA. Like, seriously, imagine that somebody comes to you and is like, Hey, like, design a set of furniture from scratch.

Speaker 5 And then, like, I not only want you to build out the instructions for how to do it, but I want you to somehow cut the wood in a way that can end together and then go build it.

Speaker 5 Like, I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about, right? But if somebody handed me a piece of IKEA furniture in a box with instructions in the future,

Speaker 2 they bought it, they showed up at the house, like, and they're like, Catherine, put this together.

Speaker 5 I don't need, I really don't need that much skill to do it.

Speaker 5 And that's actually the beauty of funnel building: it's such an to entry market because most funnel, because there's opportunity like that with the design game.

Speaker 5 So a lot of people, like you're doing a ton of the educational work yourself to like get people on board. This is what a funnel is.
Your business uses a funnel. Funnel, funnel, funnel.

Speaker 5 So people go and build a funnel and they realize they don't know how to build a funnel. And they also really don't care to build a funnel.

Speaker 5 They're like, oh, like I want to sell online dance classes like to couples. And they're like, I could care less about learning marketing.
I just want. to find clients to sell my actual thing to.

Speaker 5 So they went through and tried to build a funnel. So they got a strategy.
They like figured out some sort of strategy. they have like a video, they have even words, right?

Speaker 5 But like they put it together all in the wrong order, all in the like, it's not optimal. It looks ugly.
Exactly.

Speaker 5 So what is so awesome is that there's so many people out there who have step one and two pretty locked down. And oftentimes they can do that because they are an expert in their actual craft, right?

Speaker 5 Like I know how to talk about ballroom dancing for couples because I've been teaching ballroom dancing for couples for 20 years, right? Like they know how to talk about it. So they have.

Speaker 5 They're pretty close on the strategy if they haven't nailed it already. And then they're really good at their assets.

Speaker 5 But like they go to actually build it in the software and they like either logistically don't know how to use the software or they build it and it's but ugly or they actually say but what you know I'm saying so ugly so like people in case you're running there's this there's a study from Stanford and Google people determine the credibility of your website in 0.05 seconds and over 90% of what you're judging is your design so you could have the most incredible offer in the world but if people don't stay on your site long enough to actually see what you're selling, you lost the game.

Speaker 5 So not only does your site need to look good, it needs to be optimized as well. So like it's one thing to have it look good, but it needs to look good in the way that people want it to look good.

Speaker 5 Like a funnel that's selling bottom dances, bottom dancer for couples, should be designed differently than if you're selling a fitness program for mom, then should be designed differently if you're selling a fitness program for college boys.

Speaker 5 Like, just think about how different a fitness page for a mom and a fitness page for college boys, they should look different. The design should be different.

Speaker 5 Anyway, and so, but that's what I love: that like the market, like,

Speaker 5 there's so, there's such high demand for this skill because every funnel, every product,

Speaker 5 every product needs a funnel, but there's also such demand demand for this lowest like

Speaker 5 lowest hanging fruit of just funnel design work because a lot of people have tried themselves to build a website to build a funnel and like it's not making money they have the assets they know what they want to do they know they want a funnel but they like can't get it and that's where I think this like really low hanging fruit of funnel design the skill that doesn't take long to learn if you know the right way to do it is so amazing because you don't have to reinvent the wheel you just go build IKEA furniture it's like oh you put together the bookshelf wrong let's unscrew the bolts and make sure we put it in the right order.

Speaker 5 And there you go. Your bookshelf or funnel actually works now.

Speaker 2 So a lot of people might be hearing this. I'm like, well, that's great, Catherine, but I'm not a designer.

Speaker 2 And I think about this, like, when I launched ClickFunnels initially, I'm like, how do I, because for me, it was tough because I'm like, there's a dozen different ways to do funnels or more, right?

Speaker 2 But there's, there's a bunch of things. I'm like, how do I, I can't teach somebody.
Here's 12 ways to build a funnel. And I hope they're going to figure it out and understand it.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, and so for me, it was like, The concept I came out was like funnel hacking. So find a funnel you like.

Speaker 2 You want to sell an ebook, find some selling e-book, and then funnel hack it, right? Buy all all the pages, and that's the strategy. Just model their strategy.

Speaker 2 That's what I was trying to like show people. Or you want to launch a book or you want to launch a webinar, like go and like funnel hack someone, look at the strategy.

Speaker 2 That gives you the blueprint, you got to get the strategy, and then you can go build it. And then, so I called it funnel hacking, obviously.
When you came with yours, you called it design hacking.

Speaker 2 So for someone who's not a designer, how do they use design hacking to be able to quickly like, oh, I'm going to build, like, to know what to build and actually

Speaker 2 assemble the thing correctly versus like just making another voice version with a person already tried.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Well, and maybe if I can, if I can rewind in the story really quickly, like I was saying, like, I was just making lead funnels like all the time.

Speaker 5 But at the beginning, they weren't actually converting. And it was because they were so ugly.
Like, they just really were.

Speaker 5 And that's when I came across that study that was people determine the credibility. And I was like, dang it, you know, like, and I honestly was embarrassed.
I was like, that's not a good.

Speaker 5 I do not want my name associated with that. So I'd go to go figure out, like, how do I design? And everybody was like, go back to design school.
Go learn Photoshop. You need to learn coding.

Speaker 5 And I never want, it like actually is comical to me that I

Speaker 5 have made a name for myself in the funnel space as a design girl girl because I'm not a design girl. I just wanted my crap to work.

Speaker 5 Like, I'm just like, I'm just trying to have impact inside my home, outside my home, trying to build a business. I have kids one day and like, dang it, you know?

Speaker 5 And so, everyone's telling me to go learn all this design, and I was just too stubborn to do it. And so, I was like, there's got to be a way to not do that.

Speaker 5 And, and so, that's kind of what led me to this hacking idea. I'd been introduced to it to you by you.
Um, and hacking just means modeling, like, find the patterns and then model those in your own.

Speaker 5 And that's when I was like, I don't need to be a designer.

Speaker 5 What I actually need to do is just be really exceptional at finding the patterns that are working and so for me like it really is simple as comes down to like okay if I'm like building a funnel for the the couple that or for the person that sells ballroom dancing right like I'm gonna go online and I'm gonna see I'm gonna go try to find other people that are either selling ballroom dancing or are selling like um like uh like fitness classes over zoom or anything like any like live service right over over the internet and just see like what their funnels have like what what patterns am I seeing with the fonts they're using what patterns am I seeing with like the hero section like do they have a big picture of the the leader in the front?

Speaker 5 Do they have a huge headline? Like what is the color scheme? It's crazy. Sometimes like there's some niches sometimes where it's like wow, yellow is the color and like a dark yellow.

Speaker 5 You're like crazy. Everyone's using yellow, but you're like, great.
I mean like any reason. And it's yeah, and that was one thing too, because I wasn't trying to be a designer.

Speaker 5 I just really wanted it to work that like I didn't care in the beginning to be like, oh, well, like, how do I know that this works? Or blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 I just kind of assumed like, okay, if this person has money enough to do ad spend, which I know that they do because their pages are like ranking on Google or I'm seeing it on Facebook, then like like they must know something more than me because I'm not paying for ad spend at the time, right?

Speaker 5 So I'd be like, great. Like they are steps ahead of me in their business.

Speaker 5 They're actually betting money on this page that it works because I can see it's sponsored on Google or a Facebook ad or whatever. So I'm going to trust those pages.
and use those as a model.

Speaker 5 And so that's just seriously what I did. Like I didn't try to be a designer.
I didn't try to be like, okay, let's come up with this like cool concept idea, which I do.

Speaker 5 I do have to say, like, I meet designers and I'm like, I wish I had your skills, but I don't.

Speaker 5 Like, anything that looks good that you've ever seen me produce, whether it's a funnel or a slide deck or anything, it's literally like for these slides that I just did, I just literally went to your selling online event.

Speaker 5 I was like, okay, how do you do this pitch slide? I said, nice, love it. And I just like, okay, I like, what is working? Go on, put it in there.
Anyways, and so that's how it worked. And so

Speaker 5 it really is really interesting. I even think with like the game of marketing, like sometimes I think marketing, or I'm a marketer, can feel like so magic almost.

Speaker 5 And it's really just an organization problem. Marketing is all organization.
Like can you get the right pieces in the right place?

Speaker 5 And so for this term, like funnel hacking, which is finding the patterns and modeling or design, finding the design patterns and modeling, it's just organizing. Like, can I find the patterns?

Speaker 5 And can I put those patterns in the same place and my stuff and move on? And so, and so in that way, I was able to, you know, quote unquote, hack the design system.

Speaker 5 And that's how it started. And so, I think for anybody like, oh, I'm not a designer, welcome to the club.

Speaker 2 I remember we first launched ClickFunnels. I was trying to figure out a way to promote it.
And so, I remember Lewis Howes at the time, he had hired Digital Telephony to do his landing page.

Speaker 2 I know that because I bought a company from Digital Telephony. So they're the amazing design team, like insane.
And they charge, we tried to hire them one time, they charge

Speaker 2 for like a blog design. It was like, I think it was like

Speaker 2 $70,000 for a site, or if you wanted a full branding package, $150,000. And Lewis had paid it.
And so I remember one of my first things I did when we were launching ClickFunnels.

Speaker 2 I was like, hey, check out, here's Lewis's $75,000 site design. I'm going to show you guys how I can build it.
I opened my monitor on the left-hand side.

Speaker 2 I had Lewis's, Lewis's, right-hand side, click funnels. I literally just went element by element, and I just like design hacked, right?

Speaker 2 I'm like, okay, took his logo, put it right here, color, background. And I just did it.
And within like 15 minutes, I'd replicated his $75,000 funnel design. And it was insane.
It looked amazing.

Speaker 2 It was look, like, you wouldn't have been able to tell which one was Lewis's and which one was mine, right? And like, that's what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 Like, you can go and find the greatest designers in the world. You're looking what they do, and then you're modeling them, right? Yeah.

Speaker 5 And that's the thing that I always find amazing too, and with design hacking, right? It's like, we're actually not trying to be good designers.

Speaker 5 What we're trying to do is model or design in a way that converts. So sometimes like I'll go through the process and I have to check myself.

Speaker 5 Like so interesting, even like, so we did the selling, this selling funnels challenge and then we have a certification program, right, that like teaches people how to do it.

Speaker 5 And when I was doing the training for the certification program, I was doing it, I like made a funnel for one of my neighbors because I was like brand new, but it's like, let's see.

Speaker 5 And one of my neighbors who's trying to sell like her online coaching services. So I literally go and I like show everybody, like, here's how you find the funnels that are working.

Speaker 5 Like, here's how you know the funnels to or the pages to actually take patterns from. So I'm taking patterns from it.
I'm like writing it all down. And then I start to design it.

Speaker 5 And I was like, I don't like how that looks. I'm going to tweak it.
And then I like, even myself, I was like, actually, it doesn't matter what I think looks good. It's what the market decided.

Speaker 5 And so I'd like go back and I'd be like, okay, great learning.

Speaker 5 But it's like amazing because sometimes we catch ourselves like, mmm, I don't like how that looks.

Speaker 5 And there's a difference between like, oh, I'm designing for things to look pretty because who cares if your thing looks pretty if it doesn't make you any money? So it's really interesting.

Speaker 5 Like, like, sometimes you'll see like in the supplement world, um, like especially selling to old, I shouldn't say older people, people that are older than me, 60.

Speaker 5 Well, so am I, I know, literally, oh my gosh. Um, but if you're selling to older people, like if you have a really sleek design, it's really interesting.
It converts worse because it's overwhelming.

Speaker 5 Whereas if you have like a website that kind of looks like it's from the early 2000s, it's it's and it to me it like hurts me like because I'm like ah, it's so ugly.

Speaker 5 But I think that's the beautiful thing about this concept of funnel hacking or design hacking is you're just if the true objective at the end of the day is cash flow and sales.

Speaker 5 And so, what you want to do is just find the patterns and you kind of have to put aside what you care about, how it looks, because again, you're trying to optimize it for the avatar that's going to come through.

Speaker 2 It reminds me, my, my, I had a supplement for diabetic neuropathy about the time we were launching ClickFunnels, and we had the same thing we made the sickest, coolest site and did not convert.

Speaker 2 And then we went and our avatar, they're older, you know, 70s, 80s, 90s years old, and they didn't want to watch videos. We had this amazing, best sales videos ever we made.

Speaker 2 And we shifted this long form thing with no images. It looked like it was built in front page and crushed.
It's just like crazy. Like that's what they responded to.

Speaker 2 But I, you know, me trying to be a designer and a funnel builder, all this stuff, and I messed it up until we went, reverted back to what that market and came back to doing a little research and finding some things.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 5 But it goes back to, I think, this concept of like enabling and providing opportunity, which like you have to get yourself out of the way to be like, okay, like my main objective is to help somebody who's in pain to not be in pain.

Speaker 5 And what you have to do is you have to get the person in pain to actually listen to you. And so like if you're marketing to Gen Zs, you got to figure out how to get them to pay attention to you.

Speaker 5 If you're marketing to boomers, you got to figure out how to get them to listen to you. And

Speaker 5 I just think it's actually, it's just amazing. Like,

Speaker 5 I think to come into the game at this point, I mean, like, you were one of the late sage pioneers of like this internet marketing, right? Where you kind of took us from like

Speaker 5 physical marketing, right? Like mail. I can't, what's it called? Direct response? Yeah, I can't even remember what it was.
I don't need, I never knew I didn't do it. To like internet marketing.

Speaker 5 But that's why I just think we're so lucky because like you're never having to reinvent the wheel. There's so many people out there that are doing it good that you can model it.

Speaker 5 And there's also so many people out there doing it bad that you have so much opportunity. Like

Speaker 5 yes, it's so awesome.

Speaker 2 If you just have basic understanding. Yeah.
I was going to add one thing because a lot of people, whenever I talk about stuff, they always like, well, I can't find, how do you find these funnels?

Speaker 2 I don't even know where they're at. And so I'm going to show them, I'm going to tell my secret.
Maybe yours is similar. I love it.

Speaker 2 But when I know, and right now, we just built at Funnel Hacking Lab, you saw we launched a new plugin called barn mpt which is a free plugin for funnel hacking you go funn hack screenshots and pictures and so like i'm in the process right now of i'm rebuilding my swipe files i'm funnel hacking i'm buying everyone's pro just to like but i'm trying to find different markets so for me example i was like okay uh i want to i want to go see everyone's got a green drink offer so first thing i do is i grab my phone and i just start talking by it because everyone knows this is a thing now right like so i was like green drink i want a healthy green drink i'm looking for some green drink um i want something that's gonna be healthy uh red drink green drink and i start thinking i start talking talking to my phone and all of a sudden ads start showing up and then I go to Facebook and I start searching for a home things and I go to Google I search go Instagram I search and then I just I'm done and over the next two weeks I'm gonna get hit with 500,000 ads emails and they pop up I click on every single ad go to the page open a barn and pt screenshot screenshot every single page in the funnel right if I wanted to do baby diapers I would go and I start typing saying baby diapers and like but I say it right next to my phone type it four or five places and then I sit back and they just all start coming to you yeah is it similar for you yeah I just I just google search as if I am the person trying to buy the product And so, like, same thing.

Speaker 5 Yes, exactly. And so you go and I click on everything and I do it.

Speaker 5 And then what I love about what your process is too is oftentimes like you get the best sample size if you wait for a few days because people are gonna retarget you. People are gonna do this.

Speaker 5 We were just talking with our friend Greg, who does the part of this.

Speaker 5 He's like, I click on every single ad and in my Instagram, I have like folders for like, these are great internet marketing ads and these are great this and this is an amazing funnel.

Speaker 5 It's like so cool. But it just really is amazing.
If you understand the process for how to find the highest converting items to incorporate into your funnels, when you understand how it works,

Speaker 5 it's just there. You just get to actually just take it in.

Speaker 2 And if you start clicking all those things, then Facebook and Instagram will, the algorithm will get trained. And they're like, oh, this person's looking for that stuff.

Speaker 2 And all the other companies can find just start showing up magically. And it is amazing.

Speaker 5 It's fascinating.

Speaker 2 I don't know if you've ever done this, but one time I grabbed my wife's phone. I thought it was mine.
I opened it up and I opened it at Facebook.

Speaker 2 And I was like, in this whole new world, this whole new land. Oh, yeah.
I was like, what is this?

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, this is what Facebook looks like for my my wife because she's searching for way different things about him. I was like, This is a whole different experience.

Speaker 2 It was so cool because I saw these other funnels that never even knew existed, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah, well, like, my parents, so my Gen Z, my Gen Z siblings, they're all about TikTok, but my parents are also on TikTok.

Speaker 5 I love it, but they also will be like, Oh, yeah, like they'll always be like, You're on the wrong side of TikTok. Because my mom's on TikTok for gardening videos, crochet videos.

Speaker 5 She has workout, like, like uh, stay flexible videos, right? Because she's just turned 60 this year, like how to keep your mobility.

Speaker 5 My dad is like so funny, he loves like back cracking videos, and but he also loves like Napoleon Hill stuff and like business stuff.

Speaker 5 And then my Gen Z siblings are like Ariana Grande, you know, like Taylor's that, not even that's probably two millennial.

Speaker 5 I don't even know what they're listening to, but like, it's so interesting when it's called, like, oh, like, you're on the other side of TikTok because you're on this.

Speaker 5 And in one way, it's actually amazing, right? Like, that the algorithm just conforms to what you want.

Speaker 5 In some ways, I think there can be some negative side effects to that in the world, but from a marketing standpoint, it is awesome because you basically have,

Speaker 2 it's like a search engine tool specifically for products that are marketing and so you're like oh again if they have money to run ads they probably got there it's it's not nothing happening you know and so it's an amazing thing to model so cool all right so that's tier number one so tier number one somebody learns the basics of design how to how to find those things look for the things and then now they can go and start getting clients selling design so what are the price points if someone's just doing the design what could they sell the design services for?

Speaker 2 Totally.

Speaker 5 It's usually anywhere from three to four figures per build. And typically the way that I have people do it, because again, you're not building the strategy.
You're not like building assets.

Speaker 5 It's literally like reorganization is typically just like a flat rate per page. And so the more you build and the more you have like a portfolio to show, the higher you can do it.

Speaker 5 And so like, I would say, I would say like on average, once people are kind of getting into it, you're making anywhere from two grand to five to six grand per build, right? Like, cool, awesome.

Speaker 5 Because again, you're taking all their stuff, redesigning it, taking all stuff, redesigning, taking all their stuff, redesigning it. And so some people seriously, like,

Speaker 5 I mean, before we joined forces, that was all I ever told people how to do was like design. And they built this full-on business.

Speaker 5 They didn't even like have to read your books, which I always tell them to, don't worry. But they didn't even have to, right? Because like, we're not focusing on strategy.
We're not focusing on.

Speaker 2 If a person's coming to him, I need a book funnel. I tried.
It's not working. You're like, cool, let me fix it.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to do a webinar funnel. It's not working.
Yeah. You know, as opposed to like, what should I move? What should I build, right? Yeah.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Because, yeah, because they would come to them and the target audience would always be like, I know exactly what I'm trying to build.

Speaker 5 I know exactly what product I'm trying to build, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 Whereas when you start to go to this next level, which is, hey, I'm going to get really good at strategy, which is essentially, again, thinking of IKEA, I'm like really good at figuring out which funnel you need.

Speaker 5 So somebody comes to you and they're like, I want to sell, like, I'm an online, I'll just keep going this example, right? I teach bottom dancing to couples and I want to take it online.

Speaker 5 And most times that's like all somebody knows. They have no idea what a funnel is, or if they do, they don't know which funnel type to build.
That's when you can come in.

Speaker 5 And when you start to know strategy, then you can start to charge a lot higher dollar because then you also know how to to start creating their assets. You know how to start building their copy.

Speaker 5 You know what video scripts to make them. Like it becomes really, really exciting.

Speaker 5 And so at that point, when you master that, you go from three to four figures per build to four to five figures per build.

Speaker 5 Because again,

Speaker 5 and some people, I think

Speaker 5 money is always tricky for people. Everybody comes with money baggage, good, bad, and ugly, you know? And sometimes Sally can feel really hard and all these different things.

Speaker 5 But the thing that I love and why I don't feel any

Speaker 5 hesitancy in charging people multiple five figures for a funnel build for me now, right? Is because I do understand strategy. I do understand asset creation.
I'm really good at design.

Speaker 5 So I know that what I'm building them is not just like, oh, like here's some web pages that will never do anything. It's, oh, I just built you a selling machine.

Speaker 5 I built you something that's going to make you money. And when you can build something that makes people money, you can always charge people money.

Speaker 5 Like you always have a skill set that people will pay money for. So really like phase one, and what's so amazing about this is, again, is like

Speaker 5 the road to entry is just so easy. You can start making money by just designing, right? Getting things in the right places.

Speaker 5 And then when you are like, oh, I want to start making a higher dollar for this, learn the strategy, learn the assets, put it all together. You start making your custom furniture, right?

Speaker 5 And you can go from there and turn into a full-blown career. And then this is something that I love too, because people are like, okay, then the game's over.

Speaker 5 And it's like, oh, no, you only just began.

Speaker 5 Because then what you can do is you can optimize them. Because like a true funnel, right? Like if you have a funnel up, like the best funnels are living, breathing, optimized, changing, right? Like

Speaker 5 you have 100 people go through or 500 people go through the funnel and like you, you should be smarter than when it started. And so you take what you learned, like, oh, like tweak, tweak, exactly.

Speaker 5 And then 500 people more go through, and you tweak, and 500.

Speaker 5 And so then you can start to charge even more in terms of, like, oh, like, you can pay me anywhere from a thousand to five thousand bucks a month to just like keep optimizing your funnel.

Speaker 2 Here's a company we use off and on, and it's 25 grand a month. And they just log into your ClickFunnels account, and then they just tweak stuff.

Speaker 2 All the traffic's coming in, and they sit in tweak stuff and tweak stuff. And it's called CRO.

Speaker 2 Excuse me. They call it CRO because it it sounds fancy.
Conversion rate optimization. Yeah.
And it's just, it's being a funnel builder who's just like, okay, let's test five different ideas today.

Speaker 2 Let's move the headline here. Let's move the button.
Let's try different things. And like, and you're just tweaking to see what, what's the thing.

Speaker 2 And it's worth it for someone like me or someone who's getting a lot of traffic because

Speaker 2 let's say I'm getting 100,000 visitors a month to a site, right? I'm converting 3% of those. So I should have picked Nision.
What's the math on that?

Speaker 2 100,000, 3%, 3,000.

Speaker 5 Right, sure. Yes.
300.

Speaker 2 Anyway, whatever that is, right? I go from a 3% conversion to a 5%. That seems like, oh, you you increase the 20%.

Speaker 5 But when you have that much volume.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it becomes like that could add an extra million dollars a month, someone's bottom line. Like that's the reality.

Speaker 2 So someone will pay, again, $25,000 or more just to sit there and just tweak your page and just see what's going to.

Speaker 5 Well, I remember I saw a training video of yours once, and you actually showed like a Google spreadsheet of like, of a video that had, yeah, a guy that somebody had sent you.

Speaker 5 And it was like, okay, like,

Speaker 5 here's like the 40 active tests we have right now, which I was like, that's the hottest thing I've ever seen. I love that you have 40 funnels to test on, like active funnels.

Speaker 5 And that was like not even all of them. But you're like, okay, here's the test.
And he he just like, and he had the rows like highlighted

Speaker 5 green, yellow, or red. And it was like, green if that test worked, yellow, if it's like, oh, like, we need to run a little bit more traffic to decide, like, it's still cooking.

Speaker 5 And then red was like, oh, that test didn't work. And it was so like amazing to me again, like, seeing the volume.

Speaker 5 And that's the thing, too, like, whether you have a hundred thousand visitors or even a thousand visitors.

Speaker 5 Like, it like, and so it was so cool to be like, oh, I remember it was like such a small thing. It was like, oh, we like increased the conversion to like a 6% to a 6.8%.

Speaker 5 And then the next column on it was

Speaker 5 like, how much a year revenue did that add and it was like two hundred and seventeen thousand dollars because it went from six to six point eight I was like dang I freaking love this game but it's just a game right and um and I think it can feel overwhelming when you're like oh tweet the headline do this it can feel like random and sporadic but there just like there is patterns with design and patterns with assets and patterns with strategy there's patterns with optimization where it's like okay we know that this is the first thing we test and then if that works great if it doesn't work this is what we do next or if it works great then we'll also see if the next thing works the next thing works.

Speaker 5 But I love, that, that's just what my, my soul loves about this game is that it like everything is a process. And it's just like, start here, move forward.
Start here, move forward.

Speaker 5 Start here, troubleshoot, move forward. Anyway, so that's what I love too, because then you can start charging recurring.
And then if you love it, right?

Speaker 5 And you can get smart about it, like knowing that funnels and the game is all broken up. You're like, oh, I need strategy.
I need assets. I need design.
I need optimization.

Speaker 5 If you want to really blow it up, you can start to build an agency where rather than you wearing all those hats, you can be like, oh, okay, like, I actually hate the design part.

Speaker 5 I'm going to throw somebody on design. Awesome.
I hate the strategy part. I'm going to throw me on strategy, but I love copy or whatever.

Speaker 5 And then all of a sudden, you can increase the amount of clients. And so that retainer just goes up and up and up.
So you're not just making three to four figures a build.

Speaker 5 You're making three to four figures per month per client, right? Like, and it just actually becomes like a living, breathing business.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's really cool. And

Speaker 2 what's interesting is I've seen people who go to build an agency initially, they find those core people and they're running through client accounts.

Speaker 2 And then eventually they shift from like, like, I'm just going to charge somebody to do this thing to like, I want equity in a company.

Speaker 2 I showed a video doing the challenge of Noah Lenz, who's a 14-year-old kid who takes equity for every funnel he built. So awesome.
There's equity there, right?

Speaker 2 And then later, it's like when you have your own ideas, your own projects, or things you want, then you can plug it into that same system.

Speaker 5 That's what I love. I'm telling you what, like, sometimes I can't believe it.
I tell you, I say this to my husband all the time.

Speaker 5 He's like, it is a crazy world we live in that, like, I can just have an idea, especially when you sell education products. Like,

Speaker 5 because all education products are, is somebody's figured out the pattern to something, and then you sell the pattern. Like, that's it, right?

Speaker 5 So, like, I sell products on design, it's because I figured out the patterns, right? Like, I sell

Speaker 5 products on like partnership traffic, it's because I figured out the patterns, but like, it's amazing. It's just like ideas that you have and you figure out the patterns, I can get results.

Speaker 5 And then it's just amazing. I'm like, I can just film a video, and like, it's almost like I'm like paint, like coloring a page online, and then you make money.
I'm like, it's crazy,

Speaker 5 it's amazing. But the thing that is amazing, it's not unethical, it's just like

Speaker 2 it really, it really is just like the ease right right now of if you understand the game taking product to market and then market to money in your bank account can be really fast and the first time is always the hardest right but as soon as you get through like I tell people the very first time they're building a funnel for themselves or someone else like you do the whole process and then after you've done it once like oh I know all the like the hardest funnel I ever built was my potato gun funnel because I had to learn how to like this back in the day like how do you set up a domain how do you point it to your web host how do you do five I bet that was terrible because I don't even like doing that now yeah it was so many steps it took me like six months just to figure out how to get an image online.

Speaker 2 And then like, I got to get from page to connect to this. It was like this huge thing.
And I finally got it. And I did all the work.

Speaker 2 And I had to figure out how to write copy and how do you get images and how do you hook it to an order form, right? All the things. And it was a nightmare, right? ClickFunnels makes it way easier now.

Speaker 2 But then it was a nightmare. But as soon as I did it once all the way, and then I bought my first ads, my paper or my Google pay-per-click, pushed on my potato DVD, and it was working.

Speaker 2 And then I was just like, oh, I know how to do it. And then the next time I was like, okay, step number one, boom, and then the second funnel took me like a week.

Speaker 2 And the next funnel, and it started getting really, really fast. And and so it's like just getting getting the process down once

Speaker 2 and I was gonna say one thing that we talked about like

Speaker 2 You know initially usually it's you doing all these pieces right you're learning then eventually you start you start building a team or agency and I look at when you said that I was thinking about my company like click funnels is just basically that like there's me I like the strategy so I'm like oh strategy right underneath me then there's more ag so I tell Morag who's our project manager Morag here's the strategy say cool she's got it and then she goes and we've got

Speaker 2 I think the best designer on the planet Jake Leslie Jake and he's got a team of three or four designers. They go and they design the thing, right? And then Nick is my funnel builder.

Speaker 2 He goes and connects all the things and puts together. Heath is my copywriter.
Heath goes and writes all the copy. And then, and then there's a couple of people, but like, like, that's all we've done.

Speaker 2 I've got four or five people who are insanely good at all the different pieces. And then I have an idea, and then we go through, and then we launch.

Speaker 2 And then people, how do you launch so many funnels so often? It's like, I've got the best team in the world. Like, we could do agency work, but at this point, I make more do my own thing.

Speaker 2 So I'll do my own work.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you have your own internal agency. You're the only client.
I'm not sure if I can do it.

Speaker 5 I know. It was really fun when we started working on projects together.

Speaker 5 It was really fun to kind of see your internal processes because I'm like, oh, yeah, like my agency does that. His agency does this.
It's like fun to see. But the thing that I loved

Speaker 5 was you just have like a, it's just like a submit form. And it's just a magic form.
Anything you want, like if you want a funnel, a video, a design, anything. Magic goes on.

Speaker 5 It literally, like, I kept asking questions because I'd be like, okay, because again, for my agency, I'm like, I know, I wear this hat, but like, this person wears this, this, this.

Speaker 5 I'm like, who do I talk to? And they're like, just put it in the form. Just put it in the form and it comes right out.
And I'd be like, okay, we need video for this. Who do we ask? Put it in the form.

Speaker 5 I'm like, great. And then you're like, but it's so beautiful.
It shows you how an agency can work. Like, you genuinely are so removed from the entire process.

Speaker 5 And, but I think the beautiful thing about it is you're in your right, you're wearing the right hat. And like for me, like, I kind of like to be involved in the process.

Speaker 5 So I still want to wear this hat and this hat. And anyway, but I just think that's a beautiful thing too, is you can,

Speaker 5 it's, it's just a lever you can pull.

Speaker 5 Like if you, if you only want to do this on the weekends or before work or while your kids are napping, like, because there's low-hanging fruit, you can still make money and it doesn't require a lot of time.

Speaker 5 Like, you can still play. Whereas, if you want to make this a full-blown career where you're like, oh, I'm here and I'm managing all these people, like, you can have a million-dollar a year agency.

Speaker 5 And anyway, that's just what I love. Again, the game is accessible to anyone if you understand the patterns involved so that you can reach the appropriate level of fruit, I guess you could say.

Speaker 2 So much fun.

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Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 again, this is like, I think the coolest career side hustle, whatever it might be. We had someone on the first VIP day who was like, I signed up for this because I want to do this as a side hustle.

Speaker 2 They're like, I think this could be my career. Like, yes, exactly.
Yes. Yes, if you can make 500 bucks on a weekend,

Speaker 2 you can make 500 bucks a day if you know, or whatever the numbers are, like if you just, if you put the energy and effort into it.

Speaker 2 Okay, the next set of things I want to ask you about around this, because I know that there's the two sides of it, right? Like, can I do the actual funnels? The second is like, how do I find people to

Speaker 2 be clients?

Speaker 2 Like, and so I'd love your ideas on, and we don't have to go super deep, but some ideas on like, how can someone find clients who are looking for the stuff so they can take those two things and match them together?

Speaker 5 Yeah, and

Speaker 5 I just, I just have to say, like, for all of my analytical logical friends who are like me, like, this is the scariest part, but it's only scary again when you don't understand the pattern and and for me like whenever I feel afraid about something it's because it's like oh I don't know the plan I like don't know how I'm gonna do it but once you're like oh that's how it works then it's like oh I'll just it's just a number step

Speaker 5 by step

Speaker 5 the steps and so for me when I was like okay well what actually is selling Like because I think selling can get a bad rap because people are slimy about it, right?

Speaker 5 Like they trick you into buying something that you don't want or they convince you that you have a problem that you don't like it can get really slimy really fast.

Speaker 5 But when I think selling is done right, it means that somebody has a pain and you provide the remedy and both parties are happy at the end because the person with pain no longer has pain and the person with the remedy got compensated, right?

Speaker 5 And so for me, when I'm a funnel builder, right? Like,

Speaker 5 what does a funnel builder do? They build sales funnels, funnels that bring sales. So when I'm looking, that's the remedy.
I bring sales.

Speaker 5 So when I'm looking for clients, what I'm actually doing is I'm looking for somebody in pain. And what is the specific pain I'm looking for? I'm looking for somebody that needs sales.

Speaker 5 And the fun part is that that's everybody in business.

Speaker 2 Is there any company that doesn't need more sales? Exactly.

Speaker 5 But the reality is

Speaker 5 that also everybody needs food. But depending on when you catch them in the day, somebody needs food more than other people need food, right?

Speaker 5 So if you haven't eaten for 24 hours, that person is in a lot more pain than somebody who's like, well, yeah, I need food later, but I just had breakfast, right?

Speaker 5 And so what I like to do is like, yes, every business needs more sales, but there are some people that are in more pain than others.

Speaker 5 And the most beautiful thing is that people are typically loud about their pain and they gather.

Speaker 5 Like it's like scientifically proven that people with common interests and common pain gather together and like not just on person, but primarily online.

Speaker 5 And so, like, you, for example, you're like an amazing person that has gathered people of similar interests and therefore produce similar pains, right?

Speaker 5 And you're like, build funnels, online business, blah, blah, blah. Because you're new and they don't know, right? It's like, oh, I built a funnel, but dot dot dot.

Speaker 5 Like it didn't, it didn't like pan out the way that I want because they didn't understand the strategy or the asset or whatever.

Speaker 5 And so what I like to do is I literally just like go to like to go to the ClickFunnels group or like online business groups or internet marketing groups, whether on Facebook or or I follow like YouTube people look for people in the comments or Instagram or whatever.

Speaker 5 But I literally just go and people will ask questions all the time. Like literally, we just did this three-day selling challenge.

Speaker 5 Every example I gave was an example that happened from the day or the day before. Like I just literally went to the group and I said, oh, look it, here's a person in pain.
Like look at the timestamp.

Speaker 5 It happened four hours ago. Right.
Or like, oh, look, it, this happened this morning. It happened at 8.27.

Speaker 5 Like, and literally, like, what pain looks like is people are saying, like, hey, I'm, this funnel is, I'm trying to get this funnel to work and it's not working.

Speaker 5 Or I want to sell this product, but I don't know how how to start or blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.
And all of a sudden, you're just looking and you're like, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker 5 That is a person in the pain that I can solve. Like, that's a person that needs more sales.
And I know I have the skill set to build something that can bring them sales. And so,

Speaker 5 and so when I think about it that way, just like a very logical approach, it's not like, ooh, like, I got to go find somebody to give me money, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 It's like, no, I'm just going to go find somebody in pain and I'm going to be a homie about it. And I'm not going to let them like wither on the side of the road.
I know how to help them.

Speaker 5 So I'm going to help them. And that can become the game.
And so it really becomes, I think, so often we think, like, well, what do I say in the sales bitch? How does it work?

Speaker 5 And yes, there's like an art and a science to selling, but at the end of the day, you're just a person helping a person. And so, like, going into the comments and saying, Hey, you need help?

Speaker 5 I know exactly what you need. I'm an expert funnel builder.

Speaker 5 Do you want to hop on a 15-minute call? Or, hey, I'm going to slide into your DMs. I'm in chat.
Sometimes I don't even get on a call with them. I'm like, let me just help you in the DMs.

Speaker 5 We can just take care of this right now. But

Speaker 5 what I like to always say to my students is this concept of like be 10% better. You know, to be amazingly better, but like be 10% better.

Speaker 5 So if, like, let's say that there's like four people bidding for the attention of this person that needs help with their funnel, what happens if you send a video, like just like a selfie video that's 15 seconds long rather than like, hey, so what do you need help with?

Speaker 5 Dot, dot, dot, right? Like, if you're like, I'm like, hey, Sally, I saw your pose. I'm Catherine, like, so excited for you.
You're selling this product. Awesome.

Speaker 5 It seems like you're kind of having a little bit of like a little bit of trouble.

Speaker 5 I kind of checked out your stuff. I actually have a really clear idea of what you might need to do looking forward.
Do you want to hop on a call right now?

Speaker 5 And then all of a sudden, she sees that I'm not going to like abduct her. No stranger danger, right? Like I'm normal.
I've like invested in her stuff and that's that.

Speaker 5 And it took me three extra minutes. Then the guy that slid into her DMs was like, hey, I can help.
Dot, dot, dot, you know, like, and you're like, I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 Do I want to get on a call with you? Anyway, so that's what I love. And so I think for anybody freaking out, just like realize it's not like some magic words to say.

Speaker 5 It's just, can you find somebody in pain? And then just offer them the solution to the pain and be a normal human about it.

Speaker 2 I think that's it. One of my favorite examples, you know, Ben Moot, obviously on my team.
Ben, I eventually stole him, and now he's like my right-hand man working on projects all the time.

Speaker 2 But before that, he was doing funnel, like, he was building funnels for other people. And I asked him his process, and it was so cool.

Speaker 2 He's like, everyone hears you talk about funnel hacking, and everyone understands it, but no one wants to do it. So he's like, I would offer to do funnel hacking for people.

Speaker 2 So I charge a camera 300 bucks. And so like someone was like trying to, anyone ever seen a funnel that does this? Or, you know, like they, they asked us questions.

Speaker 2 He's like, hey, 300 bucks, I'll go funnel hack 10 funnels for you. And so they, they like, basically, the writing check is 300 bucks.

Speaker 2 He goes out out there, you go find 10 funnels, same process we talked about, right? Go start searching for things, find them, go through the process, funnel hack them.

Speaker 2 So you take these, these 10 funnels, and then send it back to the person. Like, here's the 10 funnels.
And by the way, if I was you based on these 10, I would do a funnel like this.

Speaker 2 And you map out, here's the strategy I would do.

Speaker 2 Here you go. And then the person's like, whoa, that's insane.
That's amazing. And then the next question is like, cool.
So you can do that on your own. If you want, you can hire me.

Speaker 2 I can do that for you. And like 95% of people who like, he did the funnel build for hired him to do the thing later.
So like, you know about this market, you understand it. Like you see the vision.

Speaker 2 Like this is it. Like you understand the strategy.
This is insane. And it was just the most simple, like, non-threatening thing.
Like, I'll do the work.

Speaker 2 And you can do funnel hacks for people for free. Just like, I'm going to go do it for you for free.
This is what, you know, just give them the recommendation.

Speaker 2 And like, you putting forth that effort is what gets the person. Like,

Speaker 2 I could hire the 14 people that selected my DMs, you know, saying, saying, how can I help you, sir?

Speaker 2 Versus, you know, the person who went out there and like did the data research and showed them like on a silver platter, this is what I would do if I was you. And like, please help me.

Speaker 5 Well, and that's what I think about clients too. I think we like, like, or even in selling, launching a product, like we build it up to be so much more than it is.

Speaker 5 Um, and it's so interesting, like, even like, uh, like with getting healthier, losing weight, like, everybody actually knows what to do. What do you do?

Speaker 5 You move more and you eat less, or eat better, right? Like, that at the end of the day, that's what it is.

Speaker 5 And there's always gonna be circumstances, like, some people have crazy hormones or whatever, but like, at the end of the day, like, basically, everyone knows at least more calories than you eat, and you're probably gonna lose weight.

Speaker 5 Yeah, like we know that, and yet we still hire coaches over and over and over and over again. Why?

Speaker 5 Because we're just like afraid. We're like afraid to take the steps, or we need accountability to take the steps.
And I think about that so often with selling too.

Speaker 5 Like, everybody knows what to do, actually. Like, I don't know how to find clients.
You do know how to find clients. Like, just go find somebody that's hurting and help them.

Speaker 5 But we're almost too afraid to do it. And I almost wonder, like, sometimes I'll make deals with myself.

Speaker 5 I talked about this the other day with somebody when you were there, but I was like, you're not allowed to freak out until dot dot dot, where I'll be like, oh, like, what if the assignment isn't to make money?

Speaker 5 What if the assignment is more something I can control? Where I'm like, oh, I actually have to have conversations with 100 people and try to pitch 100 people on selling my service.

Speaker 5 And only after 100 people am I able to freak out. But like, the assignment isn't to make money right now.
The assignment is just to go talk to 100 people. And that is something I can control.

Speaker 5 And if money happens, great. Like, if it doesn't happen, whatever.
But like,

Speaker 5 I learned this phase honestly from dating. I learned it from my friend.

Speaker 5 She called it like, she called it the two-week data, two-door, two-week data, where she's like, you know, sometimes you're dating a guy and you're like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 And like, she's like, I just got so overwhelmed. Some days I'd be like, oh, I love him.
The next day day I'd be like, he's so annoying, right? And she goes, I call it two-week data.

Speaker 5 And she goes, for two weeks, I'm not allowed to do anything. I'm not allowed to feel happy, sad, whatever.
It's just data acquisition.

Speaker 5 So if I have a great day on Monday with him, but he's kind of a loser on Tuesday, whatever, data, you know? And then at the end of the two weeks, I can look at all the data

Speaker 5 and be like, oh, it's like overwhelmingly positive or overwhelmingly negative. And therefore, I have enough data to make my decision.
I was like, that's so smart.

Speaker 2 She told the guy before the date, you got two weeks, and then we'll decide if we're going to go on a third day.

Speaker 5 I know, but I'm like, that's kind of genius. So I started implementing those principles.
You're not allowed to freak out until dot, dot, dot, right?

Speaker 5 And so it's like okay like before I call quits or sleep on this opportunity or decide to have a major freak out or whatever it's two week data or whatever it's I'll be like okay like until I pitch this X amount of times

Speaker 5 it's just data and I'm not gonna and it and even though it's hard and like my nature is to attach because you just you put so much into it right like you my nature is to like attach my worth sometimes to like that funnel so if that funnel does great I'm incredible if that funnel does terrible it's like I've never done anything good in my life you know but I but when I like make these contracts with, for myself, it just like, because so much of the game of creation, like not just funnels, but creating anything in general, there's like a, like a physical production part to it.

Speaker 5 And then there's also this emotional component to it. Like so many people have the skills to be incredible entrepreneurs and funnel builders, but they like lack the emotional fortitude to

Speaker 5 actually start. Or there's a lot of people that are like, I can do anything, but they never learn the skill set.
And so they kind of suck too, right? And it requires both.

Speaker 5 And my, I am definitely, I think, more steady in my skills. Like, I think my technical skills are like pretty great because I've done so many reps.
And sometimes I just get scared and I get nervous.

Speaker 5 And I just like want to do such a good job for people and my family that like I like can get quickly critical and like blah blah blah and all these different things.

Speaker 5 And so I just have to make deals with myself to be like, Catherine, remember, it's all just a game. And like, it's all just to help you with this.
So like, don't waste energy on that.

Speaker 5 So you're not allowed to freak out until dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 5 And so that might be something too of like people like considering this game before you even learn the skill set just go try to sell 10 people if somebody says yes then you can be like okay well I guess I'll go learn it now right like um but I think that I think we build it up so much in our head because we're trying to make it something more than it is or if they say no to me they're they say no to this to this deal they're saying no to me when in reality what's actually happening we're trying to help people in pain be out of pain and that's all it is And so anyway, so if anybody freaks out like me, just I literally like write contracts and sign them with myself.

Speaker 5 You're not allowed to freak out until dot dot dot. June 17th.
I I know. And you want to know what's so interesting is when I get to the end of those contracts,

Speaker 5 whether it goes good or bad, I'm not freaking out because it becomes a very logical, non-emotional decision because I have data sets before me.

Speaker 2 And emotion happens in the peaks and the valleys. You know what I mean? Like you get a bunch of those and it starts, usually it...

Speaker 2 It flattens out to the point where you're like, now I need to make a decision that's not so scary.

Speaker 5 Well, you know what's interesting? So McCall and Tanner, my brother and sister-in-law,

Speaker 5 they came and spoke a few days at your selling online event. And so they came back and I was like, tell me everything, you know, because I always want to hear these kind of scenes.

Speaker 5 I just love everything you guys do. And so they're telling me, and they're like,

Speaker 5 and they said, you want to know one of my favorite things that I learned from Russell? And I was like, what?

Speaker 5 And you've been saying, like, this new selling online event is like one of the best, highest converting funnels you've had in a while. Like, it's just crushing it.

Speaker 5 And so you sell this product at the end. And,

Speaker 5 and it was actually my brother that told me this. He's like, man, I just loved it.
And he goes, because

Speaker 5 like all of a sudden they pitch and they come off. And like, it kind of took a while for like the first five sales to come through.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 he's like, and when Russell heard that, it wasn't like, oh, shoot, only five sales. It was just like, okay.

Speaker 5 Like, and then they just moved on. And then, like, you, you don't freak out, right? And you like continued through the portion of it, and you like had day two and day three or whatever afterwards.

Speaker 5 And like the follow-up sequences, and then it ends up becoming like one of your highest converting funnels.

Speaker 5 But like, there was an opportunity for you to be like, oh, like those first few sales didn't come in as quickly as we wanted. To like, I'm calling quits, you guys suck.
Like, this is so bad.

Speaker 5 We got to rewrite the whole thing.

Speaker 5 But, like, we don't even like play it out long enough to see if it actually works and turns and then it turns out to be like one of the most converting funnels and so like Tanner and McCauley just came back and and they just realized that like oh like like we didn't realize like how much more steady we could be in this process because it is so fun like it's so rad when you have like the table brush and it's so awesome when you're like oh my gosh like i sold out this thing before even got off live like it's so fun and also like People are people and sometimes people need time whether to buy or whether you need time to learn how to do the skill.

Speaker 5 And again, I just think there's just so much beauty in like allowing yourself time.

Speaker 5 Don't pull the plug

Speaker 5 before you even give yourself a chance to win.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's cool.
That's what they got out of that.

Speaker 2 That's fascinating. Okay.
So I know we're going to be doing another podcast interview here in a little bit, going deeper into traffic and joint ventures and partnerships and stuff.

Speaker 2 But I want to kind of wrap up this one with, obviously, we've been here this whole week doing the

Speaker 2 selling sales funnels challenge.

Speaker 5 See, and you're better. You go for the tongue twister.
I just say sell funnels. Well, I guess.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying sales funnels, and everyone's like, okay, cool. I'm like, no, no, like sell funnels.
Like, yeah, we are selling

Speaker 2 funnels for a decade, Russell. It's not a big deal.
I'm like, no, it's a big deal because S-E-L.

Speaker 2 S-A-L-E, sells.

Speaker 5 It's either like the best or the worst idea we had. If the name changes, you guys will see.
I thought it was clever, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 Very clever. So the sell, sales, funnels challenge.
And I'm assuming hopefully we'll have an evergreen version up in the future. So if someone goes to sellfunnels.com, S-E-L-L.

Speaker 2 Oh, sorry, sell funnels. Sell funnelschallenge.com.
Yeah. S-E-L-L funnelschallenge.com.

Speaker 2 We may have an evergreen version, but for those who don't, we do, we did, during the challenge, made an offer for somebody to come into like our training, our certification program, which is kind of cool.

Speaker 2 Behind the scenes, obviously, you had your design hacking program that you sold for years, four, five, six years now,

Speaker 2 and had tons of success helping people do that level number one, which is like find a client, do the build that's anywhere from a hundred bucks to a couple thousand bucks.

Speaker 2 And you took that program, which was fun is during those who

Speaker 2 watched it live, you went and showed like 20 minutes of screenshots of like, this guy's first challenge was like $100, $500,000. Like this guy made $34 his first funnel, like all sorts of things.

Speaker 2 There's this like person after person, right? So we took your program, which has been insanely helpful for people in our ClickFunnels community forever.

Speaker 2 And then we took the ClickFunnel certification program, which dives deeper into like the strategy and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 And we smushed them together into the coolest training program ever for someone who wants to learn how to like become a funnel builder, to be certified, to be able to do this.

Speaker 2 I'd love to just, I don't know, we have tons of time, but briefly talk about what the program is, specifically kind of the timeline, because it's different than like, you're going to learn a whole bunch of stuff.

Speaker 2 This is like, here's the sprint we're going on to get you to this result, this result, this result. I'd love you to kind of talk about what that looks like from the outside.

Speaker 5 Yeah, well, at the end of the day,

Speaker 5 people opt in to sell sales funnels because they want to make money.

Speaker 5 And so what we did, I fluke to boys, we all worked together and we said, okay, there has to be three primary objectives that they determine all.

Speaker 5 If anything that happens in this program, it's to make the funnel builder money. It's to make their clients money in both as quickly as possible.

Speaker 5 And so if there's anything in this program that does not directly contribute to it, it's fluff.

Speaker 2 It's no matter how cool it is. And I had some cool stuff that

Speaker 5 I did tell him kindly. I was like, Russell, it's amazing.
It's not for this program. I'm like, just sell to them.

Speaker 2 Maybe I'll pay you more money for this. You understand the different way our brains work.
So as you guys may or may not know, in the last 18 months, I've bought

Speaker 2 the last two years, I've bought over 18,000 books. I'm building a library.

Speaker 2 I just want to have every piece of resource known to man at my fingertips in case I ever want it, even though I'll probably never read most of them right and a lot of my programs that way it's like you have every resource you ever need and when you first came you're like wow are people stressed out i'm like i don't

Speaker 2 i wouldn't be stressed out this and you're like my brain does not look like it works like a library mine works like a like a path that we said a path right like step by step like so let's take your library let's pull out just the pieces someone needs to go from step one to result step and then from that result to the next result yeah because well because i have like a very ocd checklist brain so like i think and like my husband my husband is a lot more like you where it stresses me out.

Speaker 5 Like, he could take a book and he'll just like skim through it and like read a few pages and then he puts it back on the shelf. And, like, my brain is like, ah, what do you mean?

Speaker 5 Like, I'm like, you didn't read the book. Like, I'm like, for my, for it to feel check mark read for me, I'm like, I read the cover, I read the acknowledgements.

Speaker 5 If there's an appendix, I like to go through the appendix. It's like, it's not done, right? And so, like, for better or worse, that is how my brain works.

Speaker 5 So, when I go into a program that has like, oh, and you also get access to this and this, and this, like, I feel like I have to do it all before I can start. And

Speaker 5 so, for me, I'm like, oh, no, like, please don't give it to me. Like, I'm here because I want this result and I don't want anything else.

Speaker 5 And so I've taught like people in other programs and stuff, like, how to actually create a course.

Speaker 5 And the prompt I always give them, and this is exactly the prompt that we went through for this, is for this new funnel builder coaching and certification program, is I say, I want you to imagine that it's you and your customer or whoever's going through the program with you.

Speaker 5 You're locked in a room. You're not allowed to eat.
You're not allowed to sleep. You're not allowed to go to the bathroom.
You're not allowed to leave until they achieve the result.

Speaker 5 How are you going to get it for them? And at that point, you're not like, you know what? This would be a cool like extra training. Like go watch out in the corner for a few hours and see.

Speaker 5 It's like, I need a sandwich. I'm starving.
Like get the job done, right? And so like, that's what I always like to think of. Like, you, you will be locked in that room and eventually you will die.

Speaker 5 If you don't eat and if you don't sleep, and then you're going to have to go to the bathroom in the corner. It's going to be ugly, right? So like, how quickly can we get you to that result?

Speaker 5 And that's just like how I want programs to be made. So that's how I make them myself.
And I think a lot of people are like that because there is so much information online.

Speaker 5 And if you find a guru like you who actually knows what they're doing, it can be really wonderful. But sometimes it really can be super overwhelming.

Speaker 5 And I actually think that the best programs have both, where you have like a very clear path.

Speaker 5 And then, if you want to dive deeper, you want to become an expert in a certain thing, or you have like some like crazy extenuating circumstances, it's like, great, you got the library in the back.

Speaker 5 And that's what this new program is. And so it just takes you, assuming you know exactly nothing

Speaker 5 and you've made exactly zero dollars online, but you want to make money selling sales funnels online it takes you from step zero to step one to step two to step three and so what we focus on is okay great let's uh let's get you money as quickly as possible um and so rather than like learn the whole gamut of i need to learn design and then assets and then strategy and then optimization and then we'll go try and make money a lot like how colleges like go through four years and then good luck we learn a micro skill and then we monetize the skill and then we learn a micro skill and then monetize learn micro and so like in my old program that we incorporated into here people started what's called like the money by the weekend challenge because it's just like okay well i just i don't have to learn the whole thing i just need need to learn a little thing.

Speaker 5 And like, can I, by the time I buy this on a Thursday to the time Sunday ends, like, can I go monetize this? And people do. It's like amazing.
So that's what it looks like.

Speaker 5 So we like first teach you all through design. Like, let's teach you how to design.
Let's teach you how to monetize design.

Speaker 5 And then you can decide at that point, do you want to build a full business out of this or do you want to learn the next step? And so if you do, then we teach you strategy and assets.

Speaker 5 It's where we dive really deep into your concepts. And we, but we put them in chronological orders.
We take your beautiful library brain and for me, little OCD people. You're step one.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 5 So like you guys know, like, I'm like going through this content. I'm like, okay, from minute 12 minutes and 14 seconds to minute 15 minutes and 11 seconds.
I'm like, go click that.

Speaker 5 That's what we need.

Speaker 2 The other three hours are so fast.

Speaker 5 And I'm like, it's in the library. That's where it is.
You don't need it, okay? Because we're locked in the room. Anyway, but then we teach you strategy and assets and then we monetize it.

Speaker 5 And then if you want to learn more, we teach you how to optimize, right? Like tweak this funnel headline here, blah, blah, and then monetize it.

Speaker 5 And then if you want to scale it, we teach you the principles of building an agency so that you can scale and go from there.

Speaker 5 And so that's what I love about this new program is that people do get results really quickly because it's learn, monetize, learn, monetize, learn, monetize rather than like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.

Speaker 5 And then like, good luck monetizing. Hope it works out for you.
It's like, no, like the whole point is to make you, yeah, to get almost, it's almost like you get paid to learn.

Speaker 5 It's like really, really amazing. So it's an amazing program.
It's so fun. It's been like so fun kind of morphing both of our frameworks and strategies together in like a really chronological order.

Speaker 5 It's been like so fun.

Speaker 2 I'm proud of it because it's like something that like one of my sons, he's like, he's like, dad, I think I could be a funnel builder. Like, this is something I can plug my kids into.

Speaker 2 If, if I had a friend or family member that lost their job, like I would buy this for them.

Speaker 2 Like, if, you know, because again, it's not something that's like a lot of programs I have, it's like you're going to learn how to become an expert and how to write, you know, that takes a lot of time.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of things that have to happen for you to be able to do this. This is like you're leveraging other people's stuff.

Speaker 2 You're coming in and just being that key integral part that makes it go live for them.

Speaker 5 Because you don't have to be the face of it, you don't have to provide a product. Like, you let other people provide the product,

Speaker 5 you just build a selling machine. Yeah, and so it really is amazing.
So, we honestly have had 10-year-olds go in. Stephanie Dove Blakes, you've talked about her.

Speaker 5 She's like really being in your community. Her kids have gone through it.
Like, it's been like a really beautiful thing. But because it is step-by-step,

Speaker 5 whether you are a 10-year-old or in your 60s or 70s, or you've never done anything before, or homeless, like every single one of those avatars have been through the program and made money with it because it's just like, don't try to learn the whole thing, just learn step one.

Speaker 5 Did you do step one?

Speaker 2 Which badge do people usually make money their first dollar by?

Speaker 5 So, I, so we like broke up the program, right? And so, like, from

Speaker 5 so, again, because I'm trying to get us out of the room as quickly as possible so we don't die, I like broke everything up into micro challenges.

Speaker 5 And so, um, people on average are 15 to 20 hours away from their first sale. And so that's over the course of like six little challenges.

Speaker 2 Some people can do it in 15 to 20 hours straight, or you can do it over a week or over a month.

Speaker 2 But like depending on how much time you put into it, that's where most people are getting their first sale.

Speaker 5 In the 15 to 20 hour mark. And that's what I really love.
Like when we were going through the challenge today, I was like, like the average college degree takes you 1,800 to 2,400 hours.

Speaker 5 And that's over four years. And

Speaker 5 you're not getting paid. And even at the end, you might not get paid, right?

Speaker 5 But like what we're saying is not only are you learning a skill set, you're you're actually monetizing the skill set in 15 to 20 hours. And people are like, that seems too good to be true.

Speaker 5 What does this look like?

Speaker 5 And like what I have to tell them is it's because it's a step-by-step process, it's because there's such high demand, and it's because we're not trying to learn the whole gamut, we're doing the lowest hanging fruit.

Speaker 5 And again, like some people wouldn't believe me. So what I would do is I would like,

Speaker 5 one of the biggest ways I sold this product was through joint ventures. So I love this.
I would like go into people's groups. I would pitch the product.

Speaker 5 And then what I would do is me and my assistants, we would wait. And we'd like get the email list of everybody that joined and we'd like stock them in my Facebook group over two weeks.

Speaker 5 And to get to like earn a badge, I'd have to like take a screenshot and post in the group.

Speaker 5 And so then what I'd do is I'd go back into that same group I pitched in two weeks later and I would literally just be like, Here's the 46 people. Yeah, so I wouldn't even agree.

Speaker 5 Like once I learned this,

Speaker 5 I'd never agreed to do a joint venture unless they'd let me come do a repitch because we do 25 to 100% of sales. Same thing.

Speaker 5 Because we'd just go, we'd stock people and in two weeks' time, they'd already get results.

Speaker 5 And then we'd come back in and we'd be like, the only reason we could think that you didn't join this program is because you thought it'd be too good to be true.

Speaker 5 And be like, you want to see what your own kin what your own people have done in the last two weeks and we just be like they did this they did this this person made money they did this they did this they this like do you believe me like they did this they this and be like okay like you're whoever your group player is so awesome they decided to open it up again so three more days and we do again like 25 to 100 of original sales but that is also the beauty of like uh of this skill set that like the reason i tell that story is just to show that when you when you break down process i mean you break down the the skill of funnel building into design into assets into strategy strategy, into optimization, into agency.

Speaker 5 Rather than trying to learn the whole thing at once, you can monetize from the very beginning and get paid to learn more and learn more and learn more as you grow your business.

Speaker 2 The coolest thing ever. So I'm pumped for everyone who's on the challenge.
They had a chance to go for last three days through this. We made a special offer.

Speaker 2 Most people jumped in and are going on that path, which is really cool. For people on the podcast, obviously, number one, hopefully we'll have an evergreen version of the challenge.

Speaker 2 If you go to sellfunnelschallenge.com, you'll be able to see that in the near future. But if you're like, this sounds like the thing for me, I want this to be my career.
I want to go dive in.

Speaker 2 I want to go go through that. I want to get on the

Speaker 2 path. Do you remember the link?

Speaker 5 Oh, you bet. It's in green.
It's tattooed on my arm. No, I'm just kidding.
Funnelbuilder, www.funnelbuilderswithans.com forward slash all in.

Speaker 2 All in. Okay, so grab it.
If you're at home listening this in your car, pull over real quick, grab a pad of paper, and say one more time, funnelbuilders.com forward slash all in. All in.

Speaker 2 So check it out there. And there's a spot where you can go and you can get started and jump into the path.

Speaker 5 Hang out with Russell's strategies mixed with my OCD brain. I mean, what could be better? What could you better?

Speaker 2 Guys, come on. And if you're an adult and you're like, I got a kid who's useless, like, plug him into the program.
Like, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 But if you got somebody struggling, like, this is like, you talked about your dad, you're working with your dad, your dad's like, we need this.

Speaker 2 And he plugged you into our first version of this program, which helped you go through this, right?

Speaker 2 Like, so for any of you guys, it's like could be for you, could be for spouse, could be for a kid, like, be it for a Christmas or a birthday present for somebody. Like, this could be their future.

Speaker 2 This could be their career, right?

Speaker 2 You can go give them a college education and spend, you know, what, a 60 grand a semester at Duke or whatever, or Princeton, or for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction I give them this thing that within 20 hours they can make their first sale and then keep going and keep going and growing into and this could be the the coolest career in the world this career opens up so many cool doors like that's how I met Tony Robbins because of this skill sets how I met most of the famous people I know is because of this skill set because they had a product but they needed a funnel to sell it right I remember when Tony Robbins launching his book he hadn't launched a book in 20 years uh it was the uh his first finance book and so you know Tony's a busy guy I met him a couple times before I didn't know him great and I just sent him shot him text message dude you're launching a book do Do you have a book funnel?

Speaker 2 What's a book funnel?

Speaker 5 And you're like, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker 2 Next thing I know, Tony Robbins calls me on the phone. Hey, you need a book funnel.
What's a book funnel? This is how it works. He's like, what would it take to build one?

Speaker 2 I'm like, well, I have the software coming up with ClickFunnels. It builds funnels.

Speaker 2 But I need to film you. So

Speaker 2 doing all the sales videos. So can we hang out? Can I film you? I was like, can I come spend a day at your house and film you? He's like, nope.
And I'm like, okay, well, how can I film you?

Speaker 2 He's like, I'm speaking in Las Vegas next week. I can give you an hour in a hotel room.
I was like, done. And a week later, I'm in a hotel room filming Tony Robbins.

Speaker 2 We put together a book funnel, launched on ClickFunnels. He loved the platform at the hotel.
We showed him the whole thing. He loved it.
Next funnel I can live, you speak.

Speaker 2 It was just like crazy because I was like, he needs a book funnel. I know how to build a book funnel.
Hey, man, you have a book funnel? Boom, open this huge door, right?

Speaker 2 Like, anyway, so it'll open up, it'll change your life. Yeah, this skill set's the number one thing you all needed to learn to master.
So anyway. Thank you for hanging out with me.

Speaker 5 Well, thanks for introducing me to this world. What a beautiful place it is.
So awesome.

Speaker 2 So much fun. So, all right, everyone who's been listening, home, hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
If you do and you're ready to get started, go to funnelbuilders.com/slash all in.

Speaker 2 Um, or if you want to watch the whole challenge, hopefully, have an evergreen version up soon. Go to sell S-A-L-L, sell funnelschallenge.com.
Got it? There you go. All right, thanks, Captain.

Speaker 2 Appreciate you. See you guys all soon.