Family, Faith, and Business: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (4 of 5)

Speaker 1 What if thousands of deals were waiting for you? Black Friday is here at Best Buy, where you'll find new doorbusters and big savings. But hurry, Black Friday deals and Saturday, November 29th.

Speaker 1 Shop now at Bestbuy.com. Best Buy.
Imagine that.

Speaker 2 Experience a membership that backs your business journey with American Express Business Platinum.

Speaker 2 When you pay with membership rewards points for all are part of an eligible flight booked with a qualifying airline through Amex Travel, you can get 35% of those points back, up to 1 million points back per calendar year.

Speaker 2 American Express Business Platinum. There's nothing like it.
Terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com/slash business dash platinum.

Speaker 3 What's up, everybody? It's Russell Brunson.

Speaker 4 Welcome back to the Marketing Seaters podcast. Today we are jumping into part four of our Atlas Shrugged series.

Speaker 4 As you know, over the last couple of weeks, I've been giving you guys access to parts of a five or six hour long interview I I did with Josh 40 back in 2020 after I first read the book Atlas Shrugged.

Speaker 4 So we're jumping right now into part number four. If you missed any of the prior ones, make sure you go back in the podcast and get episode one, two, three.

Speaker 4 So that way you got some context of what's happening right now. And with that said, I hope you guys enjoyed this part of the conversation.

Speaker 4 As a pride mover, as someone who's trying to change the world, this conversation should resonate with you. Thanks so much.
We'll jump right into the episode right now.

Speaker 5 In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online.

Speaker 5 This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

Speaker 3 So how did your parents, like, what did your parents do right for you? Like, what are the things? Because one of the things that I try to say, I try to say it a lot, but I don't even say it enough.

Speaker 3 Like, my parents have played a absolutely tremendous, like, I owe so much of who I am today, like, to my parents, indirectly in a lot of ways.

Speaker 3 Like, my parents didn't teach me about like money or like things like that.

Speaker 3 Like, that's not what that wasn't their gift, but like the principle of hard work and like family values, like biting your tongue, even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue, oh my gosh, every day, right?

Speaker 3 Like, like, you know, not like it'd be worse, right? Like, it could be way worse.

Speaker 3 And like, some people would love that, but like, you know, like de-escalating situations and like having those, like, I owe so much of who I am to those.

Speaker 3 And like, yeah, they messed up in a lot of ways. And like, like you said, but like, so what were some of the ways,

Speaker 3 like, what were some of the things your parents did write? Like, what are the things that you remember for your parents? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I love my parents. I was very blessed, my parents, for sure.

Speaker 3 My dad, I don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 just because he was in the phase we're in, like trying to figure things out and make money. And like, it was different back then.
And he's an entrepreneur. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But he also had a job, but he did side business. So he was always trying to figure things out.
And I saw him doing these things. I saw like the job he didn't love.

Speaker 3 And I saw like him doing stuff he did love. And I watched him work really hard.
And then when I started wrestling, I saw my dad, like,

Speaker 3 like that became the thing that meet him connected with, which like meant the world to me. And it was so important to him.
And what was cool is that my dad showed up at every wrestling practice.

Speaker 3 He came to every single match.

Speaker 3 He basically he built up his, he worked his day job as a state farm insurance.

Speaker 3 He built up his book of business point where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted and it ran itself. He was making money and had a residual income.

Speaker 3 I remember like. My dad was the only one.
Like as soon as wrestling practice got done, my dad would walk in and we do meet him to a practice afterwards. Like never missed a match.

Speaker 3 He was always there. And I remember just thinking, like, I want to make sure I have a business or something so that I can be there, like, like, my dad was for me.
Like, that was so important to me.

Speaker 3 And like I said, he wasn't super around when we were younger. I think he struggled with this as a younger kids, which I understand.

Speaker 3 But I, when that phase of my life, like, he was there and he was my best friend. And it was just, it was awesome.
I love that. And I've been trying to do that with my kids now.

Speaker 3 And especially times where maybe I wasn't as good of a dad. I was too busy.
I'm trying to like down other port spots, try to connect more.

Speaker 3 But that was them. That was my dad for sure.
sure and then my mom um my mom is uh

Speaker 3 for me she was just like

Speaker 3 i think

Speaker 3 i wouldn't say i'm a people pleaser but i'm very much like an achiever right like like i think when i started wrestling and i saw my dad got closer to me and then like i would win i saw him get excited like like i wanted to win because i wanted to press my dad to this day i think i still have that where like part of the reason i'm in this business i'm doing stuff is i love when my dad sees it and it's just like you know like like there's something like i love like pressing it to this day like that's just like i love that when with my mom, it was like, she loved me even when I didn't win.

Speaker 3 Like, that was something that was so like foreign to me. I remember, like, I'd be cutting weight for wrestling.
I'd eat in three days. I'd be so tired, so miserable.

Speaker 3 And she's like, she'd come down and sneak in my room, like, bring me in front of my mom. I can't eat.
I'm not going to make weight. She's like, why you just quit that? Like, you don't need to do this.

Speaker 3 And she's trying to be like, and she's like the opposite of my dad. And she loved me no matter what.
And like, didn't care that I was trying to win or succeed or didn't, couldn't care less.

Speaker 3 Like, she just wanted me to be, you know, she loved me just because I was me. And like, that was weird, but so cool as well.
And so, I think both those principles, like, it's something I've tried to

Speaker 3 weave. And, you know, I got two different sides of trying to weave that into my kids.

Speaker 3 And again, so far from perfect, but I think those are two things that meant the world to me that super grateful for them, you know, having like doing those things for me because I still remember those things now.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 there is, which is, by the way, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without a dad,

Speaker 3 without a mom. And like, it's interesting because, like,

Speaker 3 I think a lot of my social media posts, like

Speaker 3 I kind of come across sometimes, like that Harley Zho, like, you know what I mean? But they're like, Josh, like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like, you talk about like, take personal responsibility for your life, everybody can do anything. It's like, if you're broke, it's your fault.
Like, that's one of my favorite things.

Speaker 3 Like, if you're just broke, if you're broken America, it's your fault, right? Like, but it's like, Josh, like, you don't understand. Like, you grew up and your parents are like still married.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, like, not only do you have parents, like, they're still together. And I feel like actually love each other.
It's not even still together.

Speaker 3 Like, it's like, you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways. so like

Speaker 3 what i don't even know what question i'm asking here but like what would you like where could somebody find that and like how can

Speaker 3 what can we do as a society or just entrepreneurs as like as producers to

Speaker 3 like help those people because i feel like that's a really big need sure and i like it's one of those things where i'm like one of my big struggles with this is i always want to point back to the church I had a really awakening come to Jesus moment back when I posted, this is probably a month month ago or so, and I posted on Instagram actually.

Speaker 3 And I think you liked it actually. So I know you saw it.
And I said, defund,

Speaker 3 yeah, defund the media, defund fear, defund career politicians, fund orphanages, churches, and schools, right? And like, I posted it on Facebook and I posted it on Instagram.

Speaker 3 And I was shocked at how many people were like, dude, fund the churches. They're just as like, they're a bunch of pedophile people there, too.
They're, you know, like

Speaker 3 so many people had like such this negative view of the church. And like, I grew up in the church.
Like, that's, that's what I knew.

Speaker 3 Like, how I knew how family worked is because, like, I saw that our own family, then I saw the church family. I saw the community and like how the church was involved in the community.

Speaker 3 And like the church that I went to, like, after I moved out, like Grable, Indiana, like, I, I worked three doors down from it.

Speaker 3 And, like, they were, that's where people went to vote was in their gym and the fair. Like, that's where people parked.
Like, the church was like such this integral, integral part.

Speaker 3 That word, uh, part of the community, right? And so, like, when I saw all these people that have this negative view of the church, like that broke my heart because I'm like, that was my solution.

Speaker 3 There are like so many things. Like, if you don't have a dad, like, you can go to the church.
Like, if you don't have this, like, you got another church. It's like, what?

Speaker 3 And if that's your answer, like, that's cool.

Speaker 3 But, like, how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and like making the money, how can we help those that don't have what you and I had?

Speaker 3 It's interesting because,

Speaker 3 you know, what Mormons believe is the family is the central

Speaker 3 everything. That's God's plan.

Speaker 3 Husband and wife starts a family. That's like, that's a that's a an eternal principle, right?

Speaker 3 And so you look at like the adversary, Satan, whatever you want to call him, like his job, like if he can destroy the family, like everything else falls apart.

Speaker 3 Like, that's that's the war we're in right now. Like, we think we're in a lot of different wars.
The war we're in is Satan is attacking families. That's it.
Okay, which I want you to finish this.

Speaker 3 I have to say this, though, guys. And this is not Russell saying this.
This is me. This is why I hate the Black Lives Matter organization, not movement, the organization so much because

Speaker 3 their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values.

Speaker 3 Anyway, I know it's not your, I'm not speaking for Russell, just, but yeah, if you, if you Google family, the proclamation to the world, you'll see my beliefs on family.

Speaker 3 That we have it printed out eight foot on my wall in my house. Like that's my belief.
Family is the central everything.

Speaker 3 And so Satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is to destroy the family.

Speaker 3 And so when you see families are broken, there's single mothers and single fathers and like it's it's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing in the world.
And I don't know the right way to solve it.

Speaker 3 I do know that it's vitally important. Like,

Speaker 3 I remember the first time I met Tony Robbins, I started learning from him, like one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine and feminine energy.

Speaker 3 Like the masculine and feminine is key to like a relationship. Like I could go off like four hours just on masculine and feminine.
Like I, oh, it's like the most fascinating topic in the world.

Speaker 3 But you look at like, if you ever see how Tony fixes relationships, like you look at

Speaker 3 traditionally, if you go to traditional counseling, they're like, there's a problem, right? Like, what's the symptom of the problem? They try to solve the symptom of the problem.

Speaker 3 And like, counseling takes years because it's a symptom of the problem. And Tony's like,

Speaker 3 all the issues are all, they're all symptoms of the problem.

Speaker 3 The real problem is like when there's a masculine and a feminine, and it doesn't matter, again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter, like, but feminine, masculine energy, right?

Speaker 3 You take a masculine and a feminine, and that polar opposite,

Speaker 3 that's magnets, the magnetized together, right? Like, that's what attracts, creates traction, passion, and everything.

Speaker 3 So what happens is you have a masculine and a feminine, they're attracted together, right? That's how you start. That's how, how any relationship starts, right?

Speaker 3 And then you look at people get married and it was interesting because what tony talked about he said you look at typically in a relationship there's like what they call a seven-year age and why is that and he talks about because the feminine the way the feminine causes change is um

Speaker 3 i wish i could somebody want to write a book on this i just don't know i don't know it perfectly enough to to explain

Speaker 3 to become a writer but can say yeah my word i got a lot of books to write but uh so this is how works in traditional marriage right so masculine feminine what happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize right like if if i see this with my wife with friends, with girls, if they want their friend to change their hair, they don't say like, hey, you should get a haircut.

Speaker 3 They'll criticize to try to cause change, right? So what happens is that a feminine. Yo, I'm wow, that's so true.
So

Speaker 3 this is this is

Speaker 3 yeah, yeah. That's just one example of

Speaker 3 femininity. There's a million right, right? But like, so feminine and masculine come together.
So like, this is just an example.

Speaker 3 It's like they'll start criticizing the man, but a masculine man doesn't care. Like it bounces off them like, okay, okay.
Right. What happens after seven years of that happening, eventually,

Speaker 3 instead of instead of balancing off you, which is a masculine response, you start taking it personally, like, oh, as soon as you take it personal, guess what happens?

Speaker 3 You are shifting physically from your masculine to a feminine. You start shifting.
What happens is you shift from masculine to feminine and boom, the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart.

Speaker 3 And then all the other problems start happening. So the problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up, but that you don't communicate well.

Speaker 3 The problem is that the masculine and feminine attraction is broken.

Speaker 3 And if you fix the masculine and feminine, you make men become men and women become women, the attraction comes back and all the other symptoms disappear.

Speaker 3 It's fascinating.

Speaker 3 And so so that's from a marriage family like relationship standpoint okay can i yes i want to protect i want to i'm telling this because i want to talk about this from the family with kids in a minute but yes okay but i want you to now give me another example of that tony robbins has said because What you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond.

Speaker 3 I know that's not what you meant. It could be, yeah, that's

Speaker 3 wanted to do that clarification. The same thing with the men, who the men are responding over and over, where women now become defensive and they become more masculine and the other way.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Sorry, that's not the only example. I was just right.

Speaker 3 I just want to make sure we clarify that because I know things would take it like that. Sometimes I'm going to be angry.
Yeah. I apologize.
I'm stupid. Like I get it.

Speaker 3 But conceptually, does that make sense? Like it's, it's the, the, the, the break of the masculine and feminine that causes the split, which causes the disharmony.

Speaker 3 And if you bring the masculine and feminine together, I think that's, that's, that's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things.

Speaker 3 I look at my life, like when we're struggling in our marriage, like it's because I'm showing up feminine. When I show masculine, everything's great.

Speaker 3 Or my wife comes in masculine and I'm masculine, we butt heads. Like it's it's fascinating.

Speaker 6 And so, um,

Speaker 3 anyway, I don't want to get deep in this because there's so much right, right, right, stuff. But the reason I want to show you this is because you look at this thing, like now you got a family, right?

Speaker 3 And the mother and the father split, right? And then there's a, there's kids who go with either the mother or the father.

Speaker 3 And now what they have is they've got either a very masculine person that they're learning from or feminine, but not, they don't see both. And so it shifts them and then it shifts their relation.

Speaker 3 Like so many problems. And so I think the way we help the most or can help the most is like

Speaker 3 Hermozi does this. Alex Hermose does this.
Like

Speaker 3 he donates his money to

Speaker 3 charity. He got our, he got our first two hard award.

Speaker 3 It's after school kids. So like, like these kids where they go to like men who, there's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever who don't have masculine energy in their life.

Speaker 3 They come and they donate their time and they help the kids. That's just masculinity.
So now they have they

Speaker 3 all of us, we need male and female perspectives. Like we have to like, like it's designed to have those things together.

Speaker 3 When you lose one of them, it's it's a tragedy so like I think the way we can start helping is like how do we bring programs where where they can see masculine energy and see the way to like to make a positive not a negative thing and like um because a lot of times all they know is you know masculine energy left and and oftentimes there's a lot of um anger between between the people and they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these these traits, which are like traits that are essential for them to develop.

Speaker 3 And I don't know. I don't know if that's the right answer or not, but I feel like that's how we can help those things.

Speaker 3 It's just like helping you understand, like, like the kids who don't have a father or a mother, like they need that energy in their life to understand it, to be able to,

Speaker 3 I don't know. So.

Speaker 7 At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you, your style, your space, your way.

Speaker 7 Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right.

Speaker 7 From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than Windows is you.

Speaker 7 Black Friday deals are going on all month long. Save up to 45% off site-wide, plus an additional 10% off every order right now at blinds.com.
Rules and restrictions apply.

Speaker 3 Okay, so this is seemingly unrelated to this, but I think that I can tie it back in because it's a question that I think fits in here. So

Speaker 3 do you?

Speaker 3 I'm going to start with a super basic question, which I think the answer is obvious, but like we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur?

Speaker 3 I did early on. I did less so now.

Speaker 3 Why is that?

Speaker 3 When I got started,

Speaker 3 entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing

Speaker 3 in the last decade. It's a shark tank stuff.
Back when I first got started, it wasn't. Everyone was confused.
Like, why would you do that? It is cooler. Also, it's like, I think

Speaker 3 the more you talk, the more you either alienate people or you attract people. And I think a lot of people who I have alienated have been alienated.
And I think I've attracted people I've attracted.

Speaker 3 So like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo who relate to it so it's it's less hard now than it was initially do you ever feel so like i believe that one of my superpower like your superpower like your art your format is like marketing and funnels funnel specifically like that's like what you do and like i feel like you could just sit there for hours and hours and days and forever for the rest of all of time right like my superpower thing that i like to do is this like communication i love constructing words in a way that people can understand right um

Speaker 3 did you I'm sure not, but like the Kanye West interview that Joe Rogan just did, like three days ago. I've heard about it.
Okay, so like, this has been a long-awaited episode for like,

Speaker 3 no one thought it was ever going to happen, right? Because it was like teased and it wasn't, didn't happen, finally happens. And so, like, I see this.
I had no idea it was coming. It like drops.

Speaker 3 And I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan, right? And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, right?

Speaker 3 And I sit down and I look online and all these people are like, terrible interview, not worth your time, couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that. I'm like, what?

Speaker 3 So So I go, and the first 20 minutes, we're kind of like, and whatever. I get done with this three-hour interview.
It's like top three interviews of all time, right? And what's interesting is like,

Speaker 3 do you know Kanye about like how Kanye communicates like at all? Like, do you know, okay, so like, Kanye, there's so many references I want to use that you won't get.

Speaker 3 Like, so like, like, Kanye like sees the world like fundamentally differently.

Speaker 3 And like how Joe describes it in there, and the way that I described it is like, and you wouldn't know this, like I said, because psychedelic, it's like a drug or whatever, but like, imagine being on like a psychedelic drug, like in a small format, like at all times.

Speaker 3 Like, that's how his mind works. Like, Like it's like sees everything.
It's like expanded.

Speaker 3 And so even Kanye said, he's like, the reason I have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because I have to, like, I see things in three-dimensional and then I have to put them in in a two-dimensional conversation, right?

Speaker 3 And I'm not trying to compare myself the way I think to way the way Kanye thinks, but like that,

Speaker 3 this concept of like him, people think he's beating around the bush, right? When really he's just trying to explain something.

Speaker 3 Like one of the things I love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it in a way that the average person can understand.

Speaker 3 Because like I, I live in a different world, like, just like you live in a different world than the average person does, like, I live in a different world. And that is by choice.

Speaker 3 Like, I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do.

Speaker 3 Like, everything that I do, like, I will intentionally engineer to where, like, my life is different than the average person because I want to see the world differently, but I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand.

Speaker 3 And so, my question is, like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers' heads that if more people understood them and thought like that, we could change the world for the better?

Speaker 3 But because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well or is not focused on that, that they, that, that effect never happens. Gotcha.
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I would say, and that's why I think for me, the, this study, this art of like funnels and copywriting and story is, is so fascinating because that's what it is, right?

Speaker 3 Like I always, I always push like when we have an idea, in my head, it's like this big granite block, right? It's like, this is the idea.

Speaker 3 And to give it to somebody, like, this is the idea, you're like, I don't get it, right? Right. And then you start thinking about uh who is it start chiseling away at the stone, right?

Speaker 3 You start chiseling and chiseling. So eventually you have this like amazing statue, right? Of like this thing that people can see and they can understand and they can they gravitate towards.

Speaker 3 I feel like it's the same thing with communication, right? Or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell. Like the funnel is one thing.
Like right now, like, hey, you should buy my coaching programs.

Speaker 3 Like, why? Like, oh, it's too big. Like, I need to take them to a path to simplify that.
So it's like a step-by-step process, which is like chiseling away.

Speaker 3 But then inside each step, the process, there's like the words and the stories and things you communicate to simplify it to get more and more fine-tuned.

Speaker 3 Like, that's why for me, like when we create a funnel, we launch it, it's like

Speaker 3 taking this big granite block and chiseling it down to like, now something that somebody can come in on this side of it.

Speaker 3 They go through a process by the time they're done at the end, they're going to give us money, they're going to get a product, and they're going to change, like something's going to change for them.

Speaker 3 I think that that's what marketing is, right? It's that process of like trying to simplify the message.

Speaker 3 And I think 100%, that's why most ideas don't get out, right?

Speaker 3 How many times have, like, I don't know, how many times have you had, and this kind of comes back to talk about, who knows, an hour or two ago, too, but like, four or five people get the same idea, but then one person executes on it.

Speaker 3 It's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right? Like,

Speaker 3 um, I mean, how much of your life and my life has been focused on the communication? And I don't necessarily like that much, that part as much.

Speaker 3 Like, it's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool.

Speaker 3 I remember when I was learning, uh, when I got in this game and I was trying to sell my very first product, Zip Rander, and I was like, I put it up, I did a picture of it, buy now button, and like tried to send traffic and nobody bought.

Speaker 3 And someone's like, we need a headline. So I'm like, okay, so I put a headline.
Like, we need, like, tell us what this does. And so I like found some sites.
I kind of modeled what they did.

Speaker 3 And then people started buying.

Speaker 3 And it was just just like it was like learning that process of how do you communicate i remember thinking like i never want to learn how to write community like for me it was copy like that's what we all call back then like i don't want to write copy like i don't want to do that that sounds horrible um and i want to hire someone but like the people i tried to hire was expensive it was like 10 to 20 000 for a sales letter i couldn't afford it so i'm like i have to learn this art of how to communicate and like so grateful because like that's how everything we've built has been is off like the communication of an idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move how do you decide what you're going to communicate like you have a lot of ideas in your head and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything.

Speaker 3 And like you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily. And then you have some religion in there, which I would say probably is like number two, maybe-ish of like what you communicate.

Speaker 3 That's like it. Like, how do you decide

Speaker 3 the battles I want to choose? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6 That's a good question. I think,

Speaker 3 I mean, part of it's like, what's interesting. Like, why did I want to do this interview? Like, I read the book.
It was fascinating. Like, and I don't know the answers.

Speaker 3 And I thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud. Like, it's fascinating.
Funnels are fascinating me because I can apply it to so many things.

Speaker 3 You know, and I talk a lot about wrestling, but not in the community that you bump into. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I talk about that.

Speaker 6 Like,

Speaker 3 so I think, I think it's just the ideas that fascinate me that I feel like have the most validity and can do the most, you know, again, as an introverted person, I don't typically go out and have conversations with people because I'm like, you know, as much as I can.

Speaker 3 But if I find something that

Speaker 3 does cause an effect, right? That's why I practice telling my story so many times.

Speaker 3 And I'll do a podcast and, like, I know, like, now when I'm on stage in front of 9,000 people, the stories can get people to move because I practice, excuse me, I practice it.

Speaker 3 So, I think it's putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to. And then I can go deeper on the ones that are like, okay, this one had an impact.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of stuff. I remember, I remember in first version.com's Secrets.
There were seven or eight chapters more that never got published. I was going to publish them all.

Speaker 3 Do you have copies of those? It was like, yeah, it was all my best stuff at the time that I knew and I was going to publish it. And it was all in the book.
And I remember I heard an interview with

Speaker 3 Tim Ferriss and Ryan Holliday.

Speaker 3 It was Ryan Holiday at the time. And they were both talking.

Speaker 3 Yeah, anyway, talking about their books. Both of them said that when they write a typical book, you know, Tim Ferriss's books are like this fatty.

Speaker 3 The first draft was like twice as big. He's like, he's like, to make a book go from good to great, it's not like adding more.
It's cutting. He's like, I cut two-thirds of my book to give you this one.

Speaker 3 And then I think it was Ryan said the same thing. He's like, it's not like, he's like, same thing.
My books start the final, the first draft is twice as big as the final one.

Speaker 3 Then next section, just cut it, cut, cut, cut. I remember going back to dot com secrets that night and I was like, okay, based on that, if I like, what would I cut? How would that do?

Speaker 3 And I cut seven chapters out.

Speaker 3 And after it's done, I was like, so scared to make this is like, I love these things, but I was like, those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful.

Speaker 3 Some of those things ended up being in dot com secrets and expert secrets places, but yeah, I wonder that first person, I was gonna say, I wonder if she just published the first thing or if she like had a 2700-page book and cut something out of it.

Speaker 3 That's crazy. Okay, um, back to the question of the car and and i want to tie this back to the book how has growing

Speaker 3 a multi-hundred million dollar like making hundreds of millions of dollars having a roughly billion dollar company being the ceo of 400 employees like how has that changed your perspective of the world

Speaker 3 i think

Speaker 3 so many i could i could respond i i think there was a there was a season in my life where i thought that

Speaker 3 like if i was going to create something if i was going to do something that like

Speaker 3 the way I was going to do it by by me does that make sense yeah

Speaker 6 and

Speaker 3 in fact if you look at my history the first decade of business the businesses were about me they were me they were I was the sole owner the sole purpose you know person

Speaker 3 and on this journey when we started it it was it was so different it was like how do we like what's the team look like how do we like who you know Todd was my first time I had a partners like that was so scary for me and then

Speaker 3 the greatest thing i possibly could have done right and then brought in other partners and then employees and man and like stuff and like i don't know it's just it's been fascinating just realizing that like to build this it wasn't about me it was about um

Speaker 3 i don't know just just that that whole thing i think um anything great a lot of times there's a person that gets credit for like elon musk gets credit because he's whatever bill gates or whoever the people are they get the credit for but it's like you start really seeing um

Speaker 3 how many people are involved to make something amazing you know what i mean i think that was the biggest thing for for me was I started growing it. And it's frustrating, not frustrating for me.

Speaker 3 I enjoy it. I like, I like, you know, people are Russell, but mention ClickFunnels.
I was like, I literally don't know how to code anything.

Speaker 3 There's not one dot of code in that word.

Speaker 3 Maybe once I leaned over Todd's shoulder, put a button and then he had to delete it.

Speaker 3 But I think it's cool when you see that, like the like how many.

Speaker 3 And before Funny Hacking Live, every time we start, we bring a whole team together. And I see, you know, I'm the one who's on stage, but I am fully aware that

Speaker 3 it is not me like this is us like this like if it wasn't for this team and these people like for all of you guys for all your contribution this wasn't possible I want to always ground that because I think sometimes that that the leader or whoever gets a big head where they think it's them and I

Speaker 3 I don't know

Speaker 3 and I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own koola they still think it's them I think that's my shift in the world just understanding like the great things like the things that we remember the things that that are legacies that go on and on and on there may be a there may be a head or a person that like

Speaker 3 that that the branding tied to, but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing. That's

Speaker 3 like, how do you stay grounded? Like, one of the things that I,

Speaker 3 like, I am a huge fan of Russell Brunson, right? Like, I, like, because

Speaker 3 like for me, like, you're the person I look up to as

Speaker 3 not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but like, hey, I want to. I want to be like, I want to have a character that you have.

Speaker 3 I don't want to have, like, I look at Grant Cardone and I, I don't, you don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone, but I can, right?

Speaker 3 And like, Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself, right? And like, don't get me wrong, like, I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money.

Speaker 3 Like, he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm like eternally grateful for that.

Speaker 3 But if like, if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like where that was the focus, I mean, like, I watched him.

Speaker 3 I was, I was there when, you know, it was the at the stadium down in Miami or whatever, right? When it was, you know, it was all about him.

Speaker 3 And it was, I think, I think he even got up on stage and was like, oh yeah, Russell, everybody says Russell's the greatest salesman, but I'm the one that packed the house. Right.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, dude, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, why? Why is that necessary? And so, like, how do you,

Speaker 3 how do you stay grounded? Yeah. Right.
Because, like, I think there's, it's so fascinating to like watch different type of people.

Speaker 3 And I know, like, Ty Lopez, for example, like, for a while, there, it was like all about Ty, and like, now he's kind of like gone more behind the scenes.

Speaker 3 But I'm like, each person I watch, whether it's Ty or Gary or Grant, like, they all have a different way about them. And like, you have your way about them.

Speaker 3 But like, the one that I see is like the most grounded, humble, like, is like, there's nobody that's looking at you. You get up on stage and you're like, oh, yeah, everyone saw that.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? Like, you know,

Speaker 3 right. And then you meet, you walk up and Grant's like, but like you, it's like, yeah, it's that awkward of like, hey, I'm just over here.
Like, how are you grounded in that?

Speaker 3 Like, how do you, how do you not let it get to your head? Because it would be so easy for you to get wrapped up in your own head.

Speaker 3 Someone told me, it's because my wife said, if you'd married anybody else, you had to be so big.

Speaker 3 I think.

Speaker 3 Well, well,

Speaker 3 so I like met your wife for the first time today. I mean, like we had crossed paths, but I said when you were getting your hair cut, I was like, so what's it like being married to Russell?

Speaker 3 She goes, he's just the sixth child of mine.

Speaker 3 I'm like, oh boy, he's a big kid.

Speaker 3 That's awesome.

Speaker 8 The Subaru Share the Love event is on from November 20th to January 2nd.

Speaker 8 During this event, Subaru donates to charities like Meals on Wheels and so far has supported the delivery of nearly 5 million meals to our aging neighbors.

Speaker 8 When you purchase or lease a new vehicle during the 2025 Subaru Share the Love event, Subaru and its retailers will make a minimum $300 donation to charity. Visit Subaru.com slash share to learn more.

Speaker 7 This episode is brought to you by PayPal. PayPal helps you make the most of your money.
You can earn 20% cash back when you pay in for with PayPal from now through December 8th. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 7 Act now to get this limited time offer.

Speaker 9 Save the offer in the app to get 20% cash back when you pay in four from now through December 8th. PayPal.
Expires 12-8. See PayPal.com/slash promo terms, subject to approval.

Speaker 9 Learn more at paypal.com/slash payin4. PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910-457.

Speaker 3 I think I'd say it's two things. We kind of talked about this earlier, but I'll tie back to it.
Like, the first one is that I am fully aware that these ideas are not mine. Right.

Speaker 3 Like, I didn't invent the funnel. I didn't invent any of the stuff.

Speaker 3 All I know is that I was on a path in a journey. I was given the thing and the next thing.
And I was like freaking out. I was putting them together.
And like, that's part of it.

Speaker 3 It's like, like, this stuff's not mine.

Speaker 3 It's stuff that was given to me and tested. And so, like, I'm so grateful for that.
Like, it's never me like, oh,

Speaker 3 look what I invented. Like, that's so annoying because it's not, right? Like,

Speaker 3 these are, again, come back to these ideas, these thoughts, these desires, or things that were given to us. And so I think that's the first part.

Speaker 3 The second part of it is, and i see this a lot in people my in my world who who um they have some a success and then they're like this is my person i made them a bajillion you know and like i hate that too because it's just like like you helped them in a piece but like but they did the work like i i'm very careful like to always

Speaker 3 like when i'm talking about any of our success stories like I didn't make that person like we had this super cool opportunity to be piece of their journey, right?

Speaker 3 We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that kill. Like, I know what it takes to build what they're building.
Like, I didn't do that. They did that.

Speaker 3 And like, I'm grateful that they did.

Speaker 3 And, and I'm even more grateful that I got to be a little piece of that. Like, I got to be part of that journey.

Speaker 3 I got to see that and just like have the impact of like, oh my gosh, because I killed myself and wrote those books.

Speaker 3 And because Todd killed himself and wrote software and I was able to communicate it, like, like they're able to do this thing. And it's not all me.
I know fully why it's not on me.

Speaker 3 Like, I know what every entrepreneur should go through to be successful. And it's not a mentor who gives you everything.
It's just like a lot of people who are peace. And I've had mentors who

Speaker 3 gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for, but then they try to take all the credit. Like, oh, this is when, and I hate that too.

Speaker 3 And so I think, I think those two sides, number one is like, again, I, I don't think these ideas are, are something I came up with. They're, they were given to me and I was a good steward of them.

Speaker 3 And so because I was able to aggregate them and like, there's the thing. And then number two is just

Speaker 3 my belief that I didn't help anyone. Like, even like when you said, like, you and Katie, like, I felt awkward.
Like, oh, like, I, I didn't do anything. Right.

Speaker 3 Like, luckily, some of the stuff that you resonate with you and it's like a little piece of your journey. I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 3 Like, the fact to see you do stuff now is like so much fun for me to watch you and like, just knowing that, like, man,

Speaker 3 because he bumped into me, like, maybe something happened, and now he's doing this stuff and this work. And it's so cool seeing how you're impacting people.

Speaker 3 And I think those are the reasons why I don't think my hag is big because I don't think it's me.

Speaker 3 I'm grateful that I get to be a piece of it, of the journey,

Speaker 3 but I'm not the creator of it.

Speaker 3 All right. I want to move back to the book.
Go ahead.

Speaker 4 Can we talk? Can we guys read it?

Speaker 3 You guys want us to read it to you? Yeah. What was your, like, what was the thing that fascinated you about it?

Speaker 3 Like, when you boxed me, dude, you were like, dude, I read it and I'm geeking out about it. I just want to geek out about it.
Like, what, like, what about it had you so fascinated?

Speaker 3 Like, what did you want to geek out about it? Because I have a question that I want to ask later on about it, but like, what was the thing that just made you geek? There are a lot of things.

Speaker 3 I think the biggest thing that I was really excited we talked about earlier was just, I'm sorry, no, that's good. The biggest thing you're going to leave your own direction.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the biggest thing earlier was just this, this con again, for those who are tuning in late, and here, uh, there's a whole,

Speaker 3 it talks about greed, right? And that concept of greed versus charity.

Speaker 3 Like, um again the book very much is like greed is good as the thing that causes production and you should care about yourself and then good things will happen like you'll create jobs and everything everybody else take care of yourself as long as you're you're you're caring most about yourself which i thought was kind of cool but then also i had the other side of uh with like my beliefs in christ and christianity and all these things like that where it's just like oh like how does that reconcile with faith hope charity and love and like you know serving everybody else and like and so that was like that's probably the thing that got me the most i think that i keep i think about that a lot especially in politics because again i'm not deep into politics i'm not going to talk about who i'm voting for or not voting for.

Speaker 3 It doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 But I see that on both sides. I feel like on the Republican side, you see a lot of this stuff, like this.
And then on the Democrat side, you see a lot of the charity stuff. And

Speaker 3 again, in my notes, I wrote this actually initially because

Speaker 3 I wanted to talk about this. Like, I'm a big believer that there's not like a right and a wrong.
There's, there's good in both sides, right?

Speaker 3 There's not a right or wrong, like right or wrong side. Yeah, like there's, there's, like, things are messed up on both sides.
Like,

Speaker 3 like, I think that there's,

Speaker 3 it's just how, it's how the world works. Like Satan and like, there's this eternal struggle between God and, you know, Satan and

Speaker 3 Christ. Like, this is always happening.
So there's two sides and there's like, there's, there's God-like principles and things on the right that are amazing.

Speaker 3 And then there's Satan that's twisting things and jacking up. Same thing on both sides.
Like, I see everyone fighting like tooth and nail. I'm like, I bet you if we all sat down.

Speaker 3 the majority of all issues we'd all agree on. But then it's like these fringe things that cause like so much hatred hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy.

Speaker 3 And I think that this book's a perfect example of like where I believe so much in some of these principles, but there's also like the opposite of principles that also believe it and they're both right.

Speaker 3 And it's like that, and that's what, you know, and if you, if you missed the beginning part of the interview, talk more about that, but it's like the green, the growth, and contribution, that transition is like the key that just fascinates me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So like what part of the, well, like, what part, what parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith?

Speaker 3 Like, what, what, what part of the books did you have like the most, the hardest time with because of your faith?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 3 The producers in the book, the minds, the people that I connect with, because like that's who I self-identify as a producer, someone who's obsessed with like production and creating and like, right?

Speaker 3 Like I relate. So Hank Reardon and these Dagne, like all these people, like I really, like, like they're cut from

Speaker 3 my same cloth. And it's, it's as they're growing this stuff.

Speaker 3 that they didn't give back that they didn't

Speaker 3 like that's that's the thing like i feel like they they weren't rounded out characters. And like, I think that's the biggest thing for me.
It's just like, I don't want to be

Speaker 3 like, like, first of all, the book, I want to be Hank Reardon. Like, he's freaking the man.
He's like, like, yes, that's what I want to be.

Speaker 3 But then I was like, I wanted to see him have like that change of heart where he's Christ-like and kids of his own free will, not because the government came with the gun and told him he's got to pay taxes.

Speaker 3 I wanted to see his character develop and realize that,

Speaker 3 oh my gosh, like, I should be serving people because I love them, not because the government's forced me. Like,

Speaker 3 like, that's, that's the piece I wish. Cause that's, that's like, never, I mean, it like never took that turn.
Like, the book, it was like, you, you almost like expected it and then it didn't happen.

Speaker 3 And it got worse and worse and worse. And then they waited till everything's like, people are dying, everything collapses.
And then like the lights in New York go out.

Speaker 3 And they're like, okay, now we can come back and build. Now we can come back and build.
But like, it, even when they come back and build, it was built like by our new

Speaker 3 law of right of like basically.

Speaker 3 So actually, one of the things that's fascinating about that was,

Speaker 3 was it in, gosh, it was towards towards the end when, was it Galt? I think it was Galt, who was like, basically, yeah, I think he was doing a speech when he was like,

Speaker 3 all we, all we wanted was like, we, we gave the minds inside, like, we gave all this stuff to you guys, basically.

Speaker 3 And like, kind of being like God there, but like, we get, like, here we did, we, we created all this stuff, we created these jobs, we created these resources, like we gave it to you.

Speaker 3 And all we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head, like let us, our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else.

Speaker 3 And you took all that, and not only did you take it all then you said no you're bad and we're gonna take that away too and so we're all going on strike because of that and like i you relate to that so much and then it's like yes but then they explain how they live and it's like you expect them to have that change of heart but it's rather but no it's because we are amazing and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code it has nothing to do with like actually giving back or actually contributing to society it's like they didn't care about contributing to society that just happened to happen yeah which is cool which is which is why again government should let producers produce because the byproduct is really good.

Speaker 3 Right. Right.
For everybody. So like that part is so much I relate to.
But then, and part was probably because Ayn Rand didn't believe in God. Like, so that wasn't, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 It's like, that wasn't part of her values. And so it's tough because then she weave that.

Speaker 3 I just wish at the end of the book, it would have been like. And then Henry Greer didn't realize that he could help all these people himself.

Speaker 3 And so he built orphanages and changed all these kids' lives. So you're like, yes, he's like, God, like, that would have been amazing.

Speaker 3 You know, he found out oh, you are, and he went and donated money to save all these children, right? Right, but he did his own free will because he had that change of heart.

Speaker 3 Um, because that's like, I don't know, I don't want to die at the end of my days. And like, I produced some great jobs, but like, I didn't care about people.

Speaker 3 Like, ah, like, I feel like that missed the mark.

Speaker 3 Hankridden, you say, is the person you related to most in the book? Um, yeah, I think so. Um, I wanted to be uh Francisco, though.
He was pretty sweet. Who do you think?

Speaker 3 Who do you think I related to most in the book? Oh,

Speaker 6 um,

Speaker 3 who was it? It was a relatively main one.

Speaker 3 Was it you're close? Oh, is it Francisco? Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, he was, he was cool.
Right from the beginning, he, he like fascinated me. And, like, I knew,

Speaker 3 like, right when

Speaker 3 like that she introduced the

Speaker 3 plot twist of where, like, he, like, ran off and became the playboy or like picture himself as a playboy or like whatever.

Speaker 3 Like, I knew right then and there, like, I was like, I don't know what the plot, like, I don't know what the connection is, but I like know this is going to come back around.

Speaker 3 It's like not going to be how it seems. Right.
Like, because, like, someone like him, the mind doesn't shift, and like, then he stays in the scene or whatever. But, like, he fascinated me because

Speaker 3 I, like, he strikes me as someone. Hankrady didn't care about the crowds.
He did not at all, right? Like, he hated going to the wedding.

Speaker 3 He hated to go, like, it was by force that his wife would like drug him out of there that one time. It was always like, oh, I just want to work in my office, whatever.

Speaker 3 Like, I'm actually not like that, right? I'm actually much more the like, I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because, like, I need praise.

Speaker 3 It, like, don't get me wrong, like, I like being on stage and you know, like, doing this type of stuff, whatever. But like, for me, like, I like the crowds because

Speaker 3 I love

Speaker 3 people.

Speaker 3 And I don't, it's funny because I, like, I actually don't get along with a lot of people like in real life. Like, whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I will pay whatever it takes.

Speaker 3 Like, put me on a plane first, the least amount of people I have to deal with, whatever, because, like, I don't want to have to interact with people that I want to interact with.

Speaker 3 But, like, I love studying and understanding people's minds. Right.
And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds.

Speaker 3 Like, you look at his rallies, dude, like you can't ignore them. Like they're just huge.

Speaker 3 My fiancé's parents, like they went, or her mom and

Speaker 3 her mom and Bertie went yesterday, I think it was last night to Omaha.

Speaker 3 Like 29,000 people showed up in the bitter cold of Omaha on like a last minute's notice to like to, you know, and I'm like, that type of control, or not even control, but like that type of influence to be able to go through, like, what is it that makes people go and do that?

Speaker 3 Like, and so like Francisco in the book, like he, like, he was the partier guy and like he went and he was with the crowds and he very good with words and articulated.

Speaker 3 And then, but he sold me a like at that wedding. And I'm telling you, but like,

Speaker 3 because to me,

Speaker 3 there's, there's more than two ways, but like, super simplified down, there's like two ways to affect, like, influence people.

Speaker 3 There's one, which is the indirect, which is like build a software company. It's build a product.
It's build an iPhone, right?

Speaker 3 It's like, you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever, like, but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service that's going to go out and change the world.

Speaker 3 And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words, right? And so that's why, like, Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right?

Speaker 3 He did it through his words, kind of sort of, but like,

Speaker 3 to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, like that's how I can affect real change in the world.

Speaker 3 And it's funny because like you've, you have had such a massive influence on my life, but probably like a year and a half maybe-ish into like me knowing like click funnels, I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong.

Speaker 3 And cause, and I had this, this,

Speaker 3 thing of like if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, like he would have a bigger impact. Right.

Speaker 3 And like, I have this like limited belief of like, this is the only way you can influence and impact people is by like going out there and actually like speaking to them, right?

Speaker 3 But, like, that's my superpower and my gift. So, like, in the book, Francisco was the one I think that best represents like my style of like trying to go out and do things.

Speaker 3 I find it interesting about Hank Reader and with you because Hank is like

Speaker 3 I would have been here building funnels, doing some stuff, right?

Speaker 3 Like, there's scenes of Hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night, and he sees he watches like the steel being poured, it's glowing, and yeah, he's like enjoying that like for me it's similar where um

Speaker 3 like i do the stage thing and things like that um

Speaker 3 i i get less value out of like and even the interaction is hard but like i love i spend a lot of time on social media night just looking at the people that um i know are in our world and watching what they're doing because that's like me watching the steel like like i'm not like my my mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do right i'm giving you like a blow horn so you can go do it yeah it's like that's more faster than me to sit back and it's funny because my wife and events it drives her crazy because event will happen, it'll get done.

Speaker 3 And then I scurry off to I want to like talk to anybody. I sit in the room and I just like watch like when people are doing the takeaways and who they're talking to.

Speaker 3 Like I spend a lot of time just like watching. That's for me, like looking over the steel and be like, I gave them a trumpet or I gave them a blowhorn and now their message is going out there.

Speaker 3 I can just kind of watch it.

Speaker 3 And so for me, it's like, I don't want to teach personal development and this and that, that, but I want to like empower or give these tools or whatever tools that are so that you can and and you know whoever all the other influencers are to be able to do those things.

Speaker 3 That makes sense. Like I've got an amplifier.
I'm an amplifier of other people's messages.

Speaker 3 And my message just happens to be like, here's the amplification thing you need to amplify your message to keep anybody else going to do it.

Speaker 1 This is an Etsy holiday ad, but you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols. Instead, you'll hear something original.
The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this.

Speaker 1 Now that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy.
For gifts that say, I get you, shop Etsy, tap the banner to shop now.