Family, Faith, and Business: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (4 of 5)

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Uber, on our way. What's up, everybody? It's Russell Brunson.
Welcome back to the Marketing Seekers Podcast. Today, we're jumping into part four of our Atlas Shrug series.
as you know over the last couple weeks i've been giving you guys um access to parts of a

like a five or six hour long interview I did with Josh Forty back in 2020 after I first read the book Atlas Shrugged. So we're jumping right now into part number four.
If you missed any of the prior ones, make sure you go back in the podcast and get episode one, two, three. So that way you got some context of what's happening right now.
And with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this part of the conversation. As a pride mover, as someone who's trying to change the world, this conversation should resonate with you.
Thanks so much. We'll jump right into the episode right now.
In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online.
My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. So how did your parents, what did your parents do right for you? Because one of the things that, I try to say it a lot, but I don't even say it enough.
My parents have played an absolutely tremendous, I owe so much of who I am today to my parents indirectly in a lot of ways like my parents didn't teach me like about like money or like like things like that like that's not what that wasn't their gift but like like the prince of hard work and like family values like like biting your tongue even though it doesn't seem like i bite my tongue oh my gosh every day right like i like you know not like it could be worse guys like it could be a way worse and like some love that, but like, you know, like deescalating situations and like having like, I owe so much of who I am to those. And like, yeah, they messed up in a lot of ways.
And like, like you said, but like, so what were some of the ways, like what were some of the things that your parents did write? Like what are the things that you remember for your parents? Yeah. I love my parents.
I was very blessed, my parents parents for sure um you know my dad i don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger um because and um just because he was you know he was in the phase where and i try to figure things out and make money and like it was different back then yeah but he also had a job but he did side business so he was always trying to figure things out and i saw him doing these things i saw like the job he didn't love and i saw like him doing stuff he did love and i watched him work really hard and then when i started wrestling i saw my dad like like that became the thing that me didn't connect to it which like meant the world to me and it was so important to him and what's cool is that my dad showed up to every wrestling practice he came to every single match to me he basically he built up his he worked his day job as a state farm insurance he built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted. It ran itself.
He was making money and had a residual income. I remember my dad was the only one.
As soon as WrestlePax got done, my dad would walk in and we'd meet him to do a practice afterwards. Never miss a match.
He was always there. I remember just thinking, I want to make sure I have a business or something so that I can be there my dad was for me that was so important to me and um I said he wasn't super around when we were younger I think he struggled with us as younger kids which I understand but I would like that phase of my life like he was there and he was my best friend and it was just it was awesome I love that and I've been trying to have my kids now and especially times maybe I wasn't as good of a dad I was too busy i'm trying to like down other port spots try to connect more um that was that that was my my dad for sure and then my mom um my mom is uh for me she was just like i think i wouldn't say i'm a people pleaser but i'm very much like a cheaper right like like i think when i started wrestling and i saw my dad got closer to me and then like, I would win.
I saw him get excited. Like, like I wanted to win.
Cause I wanted to impress me to this day. I think I still have that where like, part of the reason I'm in this business, I'm doing stuff is I love when my dad sees it and just like, you know, like, like there's something like I love, like pressing into this day.
Like, that's just like, I love that when with my mom, it was like, she loved me even when I didn't win. Like, that was something that was so like foreign to me i remember like i'd be cutting weight for us i had eaten three days i be so tired so miserable and she's like she'd come down and sneak in my room like like bringing me from my mom i can't eat i'm not gonna make weight she's like why you just quit that like you don't need to do this who you think and she's trying to get like and she's like the opposite of my dad and she loved me no matter what and i didn't care that i was trying to win or succeed or didn or couldn't care less.
She just wanted me to be – she loved me just because I was me. And that was weird but so cool as well.
And so I think both those principles is something I've tried to weave in. I got two different sides.
I'm trying to weave that into my kids. And again, so far from perfect.
But I think those are two things that meant the world to me that I super grateful for them you know having like doing those things for me because i still remember those things so there is which by the way that's awesome um there's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without dad uh without a mom and like it's interesting because like i think a lot of my social media posts, I kind of come across sometimes like that heartless a-hole.

You know what I mean?

But Josh, you know what I mean?

You talk about take personal responsibility for your life.

Everybody can do anything.

It's like if you're broke, it's your fault.

That's one of my favorite sayings.

If you're a broken American, it's your fault.

It's like, Josh, you don't understand.

You grew up, and your parents are still married.

Not only do you have parents, they're still together.

And they actually love each other. It's not even they're still together.
It like you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways so like what i don't even know what question i'm asking but like what would you like where could somebody find that and like how can what can we do as a society or just as entrepreneurs as like as producers to like help those help those people. Cause I feel like that's a really big need.
And like, it's one of those things where I'm like, one of my big struggles with this is I always want to point back to the church. I had a really awakening come to Jesus moment back when I posted, uh, this is probably a month ago or so.
And I posted on Instagram actually. And I think you liked it actually.
So I know you saw it and I said, uh, defund, yeah. Defund the media, defund fear, defund career politicians, fund orphanages, churches, and schools.
Right. And like I posted on Facebook, I posted on Instagram and I was shocked at how many people were like, dude, fund the churches.
They're just as like, they're a bunch of pedophile people there too. They're, you know, like, so many people have, like, such this negative view of the church.
And, like, I grew up in the church. Like, that's what I knew.
Like, how I knew how family worked is because, like, I saw our own family and then I saw the church family and I saw the community and, like, how the church was involved in the community. And, like, the church that I went to, like, after I moved out, like, Grayville, Indiana, like, I worked three doors down from it.
And, like, they were, that's where people went to vote, was in their gym and the fair. Like, that like after i moved out like grayville indiana like i i worked three doors down from it and like they were that's where people went to vote was in their gym and the fair like that's where people parked like the church was like such this integral integral part that word uh part of the community right and so like when i saw all these people that had this negative view of the church like that broke my heart because i'm like that was my solution right like there's like so many things like if you don't have a dad like you can go to the church like if you don't have this like you know the church it's like what and if that's your answer like that's cool but like how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and like making the money how can we help those that don't have what you and i had it's it's interesting because um you know what what what Mormons believe is the family is the central everything.

That's God's plan is a husband and wife starts a family.

That's like,

that's a,

that's a,

an eternal principle,

right?

And so you look at like the adversary,

Satan,

whatever you want to call him,

like his job,

like if he can destroy the family,

like everything that falls apart,

like that's,

that's the war we're in right now.

Like we think we're in a lot of different wars.

The war we're in is,

is Satan is attacking families. That's it.
Okay. Which I want you you to finish this i have to say this though guys and you this is not russell saying this is me this is why i hate the black lives matter organization not moving the organization so much because their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values anyway i know that's not your i'm not speaking, if you, if you Google a family, the proclamation to the world, you'll see my beliefs on family that we haven't printed out eight foot on my wall in my house.
Like that's my belief. Family is the central everything.
And so Satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is to destroy the family. And so when you see families are broken and they're single mothers and single fathers, like it's, it's heartbreaking.
It's's the saddest thing in the world and i don't know the right way to solve it i do know that it's vitally important like um i remember uh first time i uh met tony robbins started learning from him like one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine feminine energy like the masculine feminine is key to like a relationship like i could go off like four hours just on masculine feminine. Like I, it's like the most fascinating topic in the world.
Um, but you look at like, if you ever see how Tony fixes relationships, like you look at, um, traditionally, if you had a traditional counseling, they're like, there's a problem, right? Like what's the symptom of the problem? They try to solve the symptom of the problem. And like, like counseling takes years because it's a symptom of the problem.
And Tony's, all the issues are all, they're all symptoms of the problem.

The real problem is like when there's a masculine and a feminine, and it doesn't matter, again,

this is true with gay, straight, it doesn't matter, but feminine, masculine energy, right?

You take a masculine and feminine, and that polar opposite, that's magnets, they magnetize

together, right?

That's what creates traction, passion, and everything.

What happens if you have a masculine and feminine, they're attracted together, right? That's how you start. That's how, how any relationship starts, right? And then you look at people getting married and it was interesting because what Tony talked about.
So you look at typically in a relationship, there's like what they call a seven year age. And why is that? And he talks about is the feminine, the way the feminine causes change is, um, how much I got, somebody want to write a book on this.
I just don't know don't know perfectly enough to to explain it's become a writer but can say yeah my word i got a lot of books to write but uh so this out works in traditional marriage right it's masculine feminine what happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize right like if if i see this with my wife with friends with girls like they want their friend to change their hair they don't say hey you should get a haircut haircut. They'll criticize to try to cause change, right? So what happens is that a feminine – Yo, wow, that's so true.
This is interesting. Yeah.
That's just one example of feminine energy. There's a million people, right? But like so feminine and masculine come together.
So like this is an example. It's like they'll start criticizing the man.
But a masculine man doesn't care. Like it bounces off them.
Like, okay, okay. Right.
What happens after seven years of, of that happening, eventually, um, instead of, instead of a balancing off, which is a masculine response, you start taking it personally. Oh, as soon as you take it personal, guess what happens? You are shifting physically from your masculine to a feminine.
You start shifting. What happens? You shift from masculine to feminine and boom, the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart.
And then all the other problems start happening. So the problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up but that you don't communicate well that the problem is that the masculine and feminine attraction is broken.
If you fix masculine and feminine to make men become men and women become women, attraction comes back and all the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating.
And so that's from a marriage family like relationship standpoint. Okay, can I? Yes.
I want to protect, I want to, I'm telling this because I want to talk about it from the family with kids in a minute, but yes. Okay.
But I want you to now give me another example of that. Tony Robbins has said, because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond.
I know that's not what you meant. I just want to make, I want to do that clarification.
The same thing with, with the men who are the men are responding over and over where women now become defensive they become more masculine and should it's the other way yeah sorry that's not the only example i was just right the one time i just want to make sure we clarify that because i know things would take out i'm gonna be angry yeah i apologize i'm stupid like yeah i get it um but conceptually does that make sense like it's it's the the the the break of the masculine feminine that causes the split, which causes the disharmoning. If you bring masculine feminine together, I think that's, that's, that's what causes attraction and causes passion and cause all these things.
I look at my life. Like when we were struggling in our marriage, like it's because I'm showing up feminine.
When I show masculine, everything's great. Or my wife comes in masculine and, and I'm asking, we, we butt heads.
Like it's, it's fascinating. And so, um, anyway anyway i don't want to get deep in this because there's so much right right stuff but the reason i'm sure is because you look at this thing like now you you got a family right and the mother and father split right and then there's there's kids who both either the mother and father and now what they have is they've got either very masculine person they're learning from or feminine but not they don't see both and so it shifts them shifts their relationship.
Like so many problems. And so I think the way we help the most or can help the most is like, um, uh, Hermosi does this.
Alex Hermosi does this. Like, um, he, he donates his money to, um, do you remember the name of charity? He got our, he got our first two hard award.
Um, it's after school kids. So like, like these kids where they where they go to like men who there's these kids

trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever who don't have masculine energy in

their life they come and they donate their time and they help the kids that's awesome

masculine it's now they have they admit all of us we need male and female perspectives like we have

like it's designed to have those things together when you lose one of them it's a tragedy it's like

i think the way we can start helping is like how do we bring programs where where they can see

masculine energy and see the way to to make a positive not a negative thing and like

Thank you. one of them it's a tragedy it's like i think the way we can start helping it's like how do we bring programs where where they can see masculine energy and see the way to make a positive not a negative thing and like um because a lot of times all they know is you know masculine energy left and and oftentimes there's a lot of um anger between between the people when they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these these traits which are like traits that are essential for them to develop and i don't know i don't know if that's the right answer or not but i feel like that's how we can help those things it's just like helping understand like like the kids who don't have um a father or a mother like they need that energy in their life to understand it to be able to i don't know so do you ever get one of those ads that makes you go, why am I even seeing this?

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I'm more of a protein bar and a podcast guy.

Now I'm not knocking the product.

It just wasn't meant for me.

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Okay. So this is seemingly unrelated to this, but I think that I can tie it back in because it's a question that I think fits in here.
So do you, I'm going to start with a super basic question, which I think the answer is obvious, but like we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur? I did early on.
I did less, less so now. Why is that? When I got started, entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing.

That's true.

In the last decade,

it's a shark tank and stuff back when I first started,

it wasn't everyone was confused. Like,

why would you do that?

It is cooler.

Also,

it's like,

I think the more you talk,

the more you either alienate people or you attract people.

And I think a lot of people who I have alienated have been alienated.

And I think I've attracted people I've attracted.

So like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo, relate to it so it's less hard now than it was initially do you ever feel so like i believe that one of my super like your superpower like your art your format is like marketing and funnels funnels specifically like that's like what you do and like i feel like you could just sit there for hours hours and days and forever for of all of time. Right.
Like my superpower thing that I like to do is this like communication. I love constructing words in a way that people can understand.
Right. Did you? I'm sure not.
But like the Kanye West interview that Joe Rogan just did three days ago. I've heard about it.
Okay. So like this has been a long awaited episode for like, nobody thought it was ever going to happen.
Right. Because it was like tease and it wasn't, didn't happen.
Finally happens. And so like, I see this, I had no idea it was coming.
It like drops and I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan. Right.
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's amazing. Right.
And I sit down and I look online and all these people are like terrible interview, not worth your time. Couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that.
I'm like, what? So I go first 20 minutes we're kind of like and whatever i get done with this three-hour interview it's like top three interviews of all time right and what's interesting is like do you know kanye about like how kanye communicates like at all like do you know okay so like kanye there's so many references i want to use it like so like like kanye like sees the world like fundamentally differently and like how joe describes it in there and the way that i described but he's like, you wouldn't know this, like I said, because it. Like, so like, like Kanye, like sees the world, like fundamentally differently.

And like how Joe describes it in there. And the way that I described it is like, you wouldn't

know this, like I said, cause psychedelic, it's like a drug or whatever, but like, imagine being

on like a psychedelic drug, like in a small format, like at all times, like that's how his mind works.

Like it's like sees everything. It's like expanded.
And so even Kanye said, he's like,

the reason I have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because I have to, like, I see things

in three dimensional and then I have to put them in, in a two dimensional conversation. Right.
Now I'm not trying to compare myself the way I think to the way Kanye thinks, but like that, this concept of like him, people think he's beating around the bush, right? When really he's just trying to explain something. Like one of the things I love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it in a way the average person can understand.
Cause like I, I live in a different world. Like just like you live in a different world than the average person does, I live in a different world, and that is by choice.
I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do.
Everything that I do, I will intentionally engineer where my life is different than the average person because I want to see the world differently. But I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand.
And so my question is like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers heads that if more people understood them and thought like that, we could change the world for the better, but because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well, or is not focused on that, that they, that, that effect never happens. Gotcha.
Yes. Yeah.
So I would say, and that's why I think for me, the, this study, this art of like funnels and copywriting and story is so fascinating because that's what it is right like i was i always picture like when we have an idea in my head it's like this big granite block right it's like this is the idea and to give it to somebody like this is the idea you're like i don't get it right right and then you start thinking about uh who is it start chiseling away at the stone right you start chiseling chiseling so eventually you have this like amazing statue right of like this thing that they people can see and they can understand they can they gravitate towards i feel like it's the same thing with communication right or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell like the funnel is one thing like right now like hey you should buy my coaching programs like why like oh it's too big like i need to take them to a path to simplify that so it's like a step-by-step process which is like chiseling away but then inside each, there's like the words and the stories, the things you communicate to simplify it, to get more and more fine-tuned. Like that's why for me, like when we create a funnel, we launch it.
It's like they're taking this big granite block and chiseling down to like now something that somebody can come in on this side of it. They go through a process by the time they're done at the end, they're going to give us money.
They're going to get a product and they're going to change. Like something's going to change for them.
I think i think that that's what marketing is right it's that process of like trying to simplify the message um and i think 100 that's why most ideas don't get out right how many times like i don't know how many times have you had this kind of comes back to talk about who knows an hour or two ago too but like four or five people get the same idea but then one person executes on it's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right? Like how much of your life and my life has been focused on the communication? And I don't necessarily like that part as much. Like it's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool.
I remember when I was learning, when I got in this game, and I was trying to sell my very first product, ZipRander, and I was like, I put it up, I had a picture of it, buy now button, and like tried to send traffic nobody bought and someone's like we need a headline something okay so put a headline like we need like tell us what this does and so i like found some sites i kind of model what they did and the people started buying and it was just like it was like learning that process of how do you communicate i remember thinking like i never want to learn how to write community like for me it was copy because that's what we all call back to like i don't want to write copy like i don't want to do that that sounds horrible um and i want to hire something but like people i tried to hire was expensive it was like 10 to 20 000 for a sales letter i couldn't afford it so i'm like i have to learn this art of how to communicate and like so grateful because like that's how everything we built has been is off like the communication of an idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move how do you decide what you're going to communicate like you have a lot of ideas in your head yeah and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything and like you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily and then you have some religion in there which i would say probably like number two maybe ish like what you communicate that's like it like how do you decide the battles i want to choose yeah yeah battles um that's a question i think i mean part of it's like what's interesting like why did i want to do this interview like i read the book it was fascinating like and i don't know the answers and i thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud like this fascinating funnels are fascinating to me because i can apply it to so many things um you know when i talk a lot about wrestling but not bump into yeah yeah i talk about that like um so i think i think um it's just the the ideas that fascinate me that i feel like have the most validity and can can do the most you know again as an introverted person i don't typically go out and have conversations with people because i'm like uh you know as much as i can so i'm gonna find something like that does cause an effect right that's why like i practice telling my story so many times and i'll do a podcast and because like i know like now when i'm on stage in front of 9 000 people the stories and get people to move because i practice excuse me i practice it so i think it's i'm putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to and then i go deeper on the ones that are like okay this one had an impact a lot of stuff i remember yeah i remember in first version.com secrets um there were seven or eight chapters more that never got published i was going to publish them all do you have copies of this it was like yeah all my best stuff at the time i knew and i was going to publish it and it was all in the book i remember i heard an interview with um tim ferris and ryan holiday it was ryan holiday at the time and they're both talking yeah anyway talking about their books both of them said that when they write a typical book you know tim ferris's books are like this fat my first draft was like twice as big he's like he's like to make a book go from good to great it's not like adding more it's cutting he's like i cut two-thirds of my book to give you this one and then i think it was ryan said the same thing he's like it's not like he's like saying that my books start the final the first draft is twice as big as the final one then next section just cut cut cut cut i remember going back dot com secrets that night and i was like okay based on that if i like what would i cut how would that do and i cut seven chapters out and after it's done i was like so scared i'm like this is like i love these things but i was like those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful well some of those things end up being in dot com secrets and expert secrets places but yeah i wonder that first going to say I wonder if she published the first thing or if she like had a 2700 page book and cut something out of it that's crazy okay back to the question in the car and I want to tie this back to the book how has growing a multi hundred million like making hundreds of millions of dollars having a roughly billion dollar company being a ceo of 400 employees like how has that changed your perspective of the world i think so many things i could respond i i think there was a there was a season in my life where i thought that like if i was going to create something if i was going to do something, the way I was going to do it is by me. Does that make sense? Yeah.
And in fact, if you look at my history, the first decade of business, businesses were about me. They were me.
I was the sole owner, the sole person. And on this journey, when we started it, it was so different.
was like how do we like what's the team look like how do we like who you know todd was my first time i had a partner it's like that was so scary for me and then the greatest thing i possibly could have done right and then brought in other partners and then employees and man and like stuff and like i don't know it's just it's been fascinating just realizing that like to build this it wasn't about me it was about um I don't know. It's been fascinating just realizing that to build this, it wasn't

about me. It was about

just

that whole thing. I think

anything great, a lot of times there's a person

that gets credit for it. Elon Musk gets credit because

whatever, Bill Gates or whoever the people are, they get the

credit for it. But it's like you start

really seeing

how many people are involved to make something amazing.

You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing for me was i started growing it and it's it's frustrating not frustrating for me because i enjoy i like i like you know people always are also been meant to click funnels i was like i literally don't know how to code anything i got there's not one dot of code in that word that i like maybe once i leaned over todd's shoulder put a button and then he had deleted like you know but it's cool when you see that, like how many – and before Funnel Hacking Live, every time we start, we bring our whole team together. And I see, you know, I'm the one who's on stage, but I am fully aware that it is not me.
This is us. It wasn't for this team and these people.
For all of you guys, for all your contribution, this wasn't possible. I want to always ground that because I think sometimes that the leader whoever gets a big head where they think it's them and i i don't know and i see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own kool-aid so i think it's them i think that's my shift in the world just understand like the great things like the things that we remember the things that that our legacies that go on and on and on there may be a maybe a head or a person person that the branding are tied to, but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing.
But how do you stay grounded? One of the things that I, I am a huge fan of Russell Brunson, because for me, you're the person I look up to as not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but like, Hey, I like, I want to, I want to be like, I want to have a character that you have. I don't want to have, like, I look at Grant Cardone and I don't, you don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone, but I can.
Right. And like Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself.
Right. And like, don't get me wrong.
Like I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money. Like he's changed my perspective about a lot of things i'm like eternally grateful for that but like if i grew up to be grant cardone like where that was the focus i mean like i watched him i was i was there when you know is the the stadium down in miami or whatever right when it was you know it was all about him and it was i think he even got up on stage and was like oh yeah russell everybody says russell's the greatest salesman but i'm the one that packed the house.
Right. And I'm like, dude, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, why, why is that necessary? And so like, how do you, how do you stay grounded? Right.
Because like, I think there's, it's so fascinating to like watch different type people. And I know like Tai Lopez, for example, like for a while there, it was like all about Tai.
And like, now he's kind of like gone more behind the scenes, but I'm like, each person I watch watch whether it's ty or gary or grant like they all have a different way about them like you have your way about them like the one that i see is like the most grounded humble like is like there's nobody that's looking at you you get up on stage and you're like oh yeah i mean like you know it's awkwardly like right and then you meet you walk up and grant's like but like you it's like yeah it's that awkward of like hey i'm just over here like how are you grounded in that like how do you how do you not let it get to your head because it would be so easy for you to to get wrapped up in your own head um someone told me because my wife they said if you'd married anybody else you had to be so big i well, so I like met your wife for the first time today. I mean, like we had crossed paths, but I said, when you were getting your haircut, I was like, so what's it like being married to Russell? She goes, he's just the sixth child of mine.
I'm like, oh boy, the big kid. That's awesome.
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Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. I think, I'd say it's two things and we kind of talked about this earlier but i'll tie back to like the first one is that i am fully aware that these these ideas are not mine right like i didn't invent the funnel i didn't invent any of the stuff all i know is that i was on a path in a journey i was given the thing and the next thing and i was like freaking out freaking out and I was putting them together.
And like, that's part of it. It's like, I think this stuff's not mine.
It's, it's, it's stuff that was given to me and tested. And so like, I'm so grateful for that.
Like, I'm, it's never me like, Oh, this, look what I, look what I invented. Like, that's so annoying.
Cause it's not right. Like, um, these are, again, come back to these ideas, these thoughts, these desires, things that were given to us.
And so I think that's the first part. The second part of is and i see this a lot in people in my world who who um they have some success and then they're like this is my person i made them a bajillion you know and like i hate that too because it's just like like you helped them in a piece but like but they did the work like i'm very careful like to always like when i'm talking about any of our success stories like i didn't make that, like we had this super cool opportunity to be a piece of their journey, right? We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that kill, like I don't what it takes to build what they're building.
Like I didn't do that. They did that.
And like, I'm grateful that they did. And, and I'm even more grateful that I got to be a little piece of that.
Like I got to be part of that journey. I got to see that and just like have the impact of like, oh my gosh, because I killed myself, wrote those books.
And because Todd killed himself, wrote software and I was able to communicate it like, like they're able to do this thing. And it's not all me.
I fully watched not on me. Like I know what every entrepreneur should go through to be successful.
And it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just like a lot of people who are peace.
And I've had mentors who, who gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for, but then they try to take all the credit, like, Oh, this is one. And I hate that too.
And so I think those two sides, number one is like, again, I don't think these ideas are something I came up with. They were given to me and I was going to steward them.
And so because I was able to aggregate them, and like, there's the thing. And then number two is just my belief that I didn't help anyone.
Like, even like when you said, like, you and Katie, like, I felt awkward. felt awkward like oh like i i didn't do anything right i like luckily some of the stuff that you resonate with you and it's like a little piece of your journey i'm so grateful for that like the fact to see you do stuff now it's like so much fun for me to watch you and like just knowing like man because he bumped into me like maybe something happened and now right he's doing this stuff and this work it's so cool seeing how you're impacting people and i think those are the reasons why my head gets big.
Cause I don't think it's me. Um, I'm grateful that I get to be a piece of it, of the journey.
Um, but I'm not the creator of it. Hmm.
All right. I want to move back to the book.
Can we talk? Can we just read it? You guys want us to read it to you? What was your, like, what was the thing that fascinated you about it? Like when you boxed me, dude, you were like, dude, I read it and I'm geeking out about it. I just want to geek out of that.
Like what, like what was the thing that fascinated you about it like when you boxed me dude you were like dude i read it and i'm geeking out about it i just want to geek out about it like what like what about it how did you so fast like what did you want to geek out about it because i have a question that i want to ask like later on about it but like what was the thing that like just made you geek there are a lot of things i think the biggest thing that i was really excited we talked about earlier was just i'm sorry i know that's good the biggest thing earlier in your direction yeah the the biggest thing earlier was just um this this cause again if those who are tuning in late uh in here uh there's a whole it talks about greed right and that concept of greed versus charity like um again the book very much is like greed is good it's the thing that causes production and you should care about yourself and then good things will happen like you'll create jobs and everything everybody else take care of yourself as long as you're you're you're caring most about yourself which i thought was kind of cool but then also i had the other side of uh with like my beliefs in christ and christianity and all these things like that where it's just like oh like how does that reconcile with faith hope charity and love and like you know serving everybody else and like and so that was like that's probably the thing that got me the most i think i keep i think about that a lot especially in politics because again i'm not deep into politics i'm not going to talk about who I'm voting for or not voting for. It doesn't matter.
But I see that on both sides because I feel like on the Republican side, you see a lot of this stuff like this. And then on the Democrat side, you see a lot of the charity stuff.
And, again, in my notes, I wrote this actually initially because I wanted to talk about this. I'm a big believer that there's not a right and wrong there's there's good in both sides right um there's not a right and a wrong like right or wrong side yeah like there's there's like things are messed up on both sides like like i think that there's like it's just how it's how the world works like satan and like there's eternal struggle between god and you know satan and and and christ like this is always happening so there's two sides and there's like there's there's god eternal struggle between God and Satan and Christ.
This is always happening. So there's two sides, and there's God-like principles and things on the right that are amazing.
And then there's Satan that's twisting things and jacking them up. Same thing on both sides.
I see everyone fighting tooth and nail. I bet you if we all sat down, the majority of all issues we'd all agree on.
But then it's like these fringe things cause like so much hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy and i think that that this book's a

perfect example like what i believe so much in some of these principles but there's also like

the opposite principles i also believe it and they're both right and it's like they're and

that's what you know i mean if you if you miss the beginning part interview we talked more about

that but it's like the green the growth and contribution that transition is like the the

key that just fascinates yeah so like what part of the well like what part what parts of the book

I'm sorry. talked more about that but it's like the green the growth and contribution that transition is like the the key that just fascinates yeah so like what part of the like what part what parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith like what what what part of the books did you have like the most the hardest time with because of your faith yeah um uh the producers in the book the the minds the people i connect with because like that's who who I self-identify as a producer, someone who's obsessed with production

and creating.

Hank Reardon, Dagny,

all these people,

they're cut from my same

cloth.

And it's as they're growing this stuff

that they didn't

give back.

That's the best thing like i felt like they they

weren't rounded out characters like that's the biggest thing for me it's just like i don't want to be like i like first i thought i want to be hank reared like he's freaking the man he's right like like yes that's what i want to be but i wanted to see him have like that change of heart where he's christ-like yeah his own free will not because the government came with the gun and told me i'd pay taxes i wanted to see his character develop and realize that oh my gosh like i should be serving people because i love them not because the government's forced like like that's that's the piece i wish because that's that's like never i mean it like never took that turn like the book it was like you you almost like expected it and then it didn't happen they got worse and worse and worse and then they wait till everything's like people are dying everything collapses and then like the lights in your go out and they're like okay now we come back and build now we can come back and build but like it even when they come back and build it was built like by our new law of right of like basically so actually one of the things that's fascinating about that was um was it in gosh it was towards the end when was when, was it Galt? I think it was Galt. It was like basically, yeah, I think it was during a speech when he was like, all we wanted was, like, we gave, the minds decided, like, we gave all this stuff to you guys, basically.
And like, kind of being like God there. But like, here we did, we created all this stuff.
We created these jobs. We We created these resources.
Like we gave it to you. And all we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head.
Like let us, our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else. And you took all that.
And not only did you take it all, then you said, no, you're bad. And we're going to take that away too.
And so we're all going on strike because of that. And like, I, you, you relate to that so much.
And then it's like, yes. But then they explain how they live.
And it's like, you expect them to have that change of heart, but it's rather, but no, it's because we are amazing. And because we are the great minds and we must live by this code.
It has nothing to do with like actually giving back or actually contributing to society. It's like, they didn't care about contributing to society.
That just happened to happen. Yeah.
Which is cool. Which is, which is why is why again government should let producers produce because the byproduct is really good right right for everybody it's like that part is so much i relate to but then and part is probably because ian ran didn't believe in god like so that wasn't you know i mean it's like that wasn't part of her values and so yeah it's tough because then she she weaved that i mean i just i just wish at the end of the book it would have been like and then hangry and realize that he could help all these people himself and so he built orphanages and right and changed all these kids lives you're like yes he's like ah like that would have been amazing you know he found about oh you are and he went and donated money saved all these children right right but he did his own free will because he he had that change of heart um because that's like i don't know i don't want to die at the end of my days and like i produced and created jobs but like i didn't care about people like ah like i feel like that missed the mark hangry and you say is the person you related to most in the book um yeah i think so um i wanted to be uh francisco though he's pretty sweet who do you think who do you think i related to most of the book oh um who was it is a relatively main one was it you're close oh was it francis yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah he was he was cool right from the beginning he he like fascinated me and like i knew like right when like that she introduced the or the plot twist of where like he like ran off and became the playboy or like picture himself as a playboy or like whatever like i knew right then and there like i was like i don't know what the plot like i don't know what the connection is but i like know this is going to come back around it's like not going to be how it seems right like because like someone like the mind doesn't shift and like then he stays in the scene or whatever but like he fascinated me because i like he strikes me as someone hank ready didn't care about the crowds he at all.
Right. Like he hated going to the wedding.
He hated going, like it was by force that his wife would like drug him out there. That one time it was always like, if I just want to work in my office, like I'm actually not like that.
Right. I am actually much more the, like, I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because like, I need praise it.
Like, don't get me wrong. Like I like being on stage and, you know, like doing this type of stuff but like for me like I like the crowds because I've I love people and I don't it's funny because I like I actually don't get along with a lot of people like in real life like I like whenever I go to the airport I'm like I will pay whatever it takes like put me on a plane first the least amount of people I have to deal with whatever because like I don't want to have to people I want to interact with.
But like, I love like studying and understanding people's minds. Right.
And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. Like you look at his rallies, dude, like you can't ignore them.
Like they're just huge. Um, uh, my, uh, fiance's, um, parents, like they went or her mom and, um, her mom and Courtney went yesterday.
I think it was last night to Omaha, like 29,000 people showed up in the bitter cold, like a last minute's notice to, you know, and like that type of control or not even control, but like that type of influence to be able to go through, like, what is it that makes people go and do that? Like, and so like Francisco in the book, like he, like he was the partier guy and like he went and he was with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated. And then he, but he sold me like at that wedding and I'm telling you, but like, because to me, there's, there's more than two ways, but like super simplified down.
There's like two ways to, to affect, like influence people. There's one, which is the indirect, which is like build a software company.
It's build a product. It's build an iPhone.
Right. It's like, you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever, like, but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service is going to go out and change the world.
And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words. Right.
And so that's why like Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right? He did it through his words kind of sort of, but like, to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, like, that's how I can affect real change in the world.
And it's funny because like, you've, you have had such a massive influence on my life, but probably like a year and a half maybe ish into like me knowing like ClickFunnels. I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong.
And cause, and I had this, this, um, thing of like, if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, like he would have a bigger impact. Right.
And like, I had this like limited belief of like, this is the only way you can influence impact people is by like going out there and actually like speaking to them. Right.
But like, that's my super proud, my gift. So like in the book, Francisco was the one I think that best represents like my style of like trying to go out and do things.
I find it interesting. I hang greater with you because I think it's like, I'm going to be in here building funnels, doing some stuff.
Right. Like there's scenes of Hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night, and he watches like the steel being poured.
It's glowing. Yeah.
He's like enjoying that. For me, it's similar where like I do the stage thing and things like that.
I get less value out of it. Even interactions are hard, but like I love – i spend a lot of time on social media night just looking at the people that i know are in our world and watching what they're doing because that's like me watching the steel like like i'm not like my my mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do right i'm giving you like a blowhorn so you can go do it yeah it's like that's more fast for me to sit back and it's funny my wife and events that drives her drives her crazy because the event will happen it'll get done and then i i screw you off so i don't want to like talk to anybody i sit in the room and i just like watch like what people do takeaways and who they're talking to like i spend a lot of time just like watching that's for me like looking over the steel and be like i gave them a trumpet or i gave them a blow horn and now their message is going out there i just kind of watch it and so for me it's like i don't want to development and this and that, that, but I want to like empower or give these tools or whatever tools that are

so that you can.

And,

and you know,

whoever,

all the other influencers are to be able to do those things.

That makes sense.

Like I got an amplifier,

I'm an amplifier of other people's messages.

And my message just happens.

Like,

here's the application that you need to amplify your message.

Yeah.

Then everybody else go and do it.