3 Mindset Shifts To Completely Transform Your Life & Relationships

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Copyright 2025. Do you think anyone can have a beautiful, amazing life if they live in a blaming mindset? No.
No. You know why? because what I didn't realize as a young adult is that when you say it to somebody else, whether you mean to do it or not, you give them the keys to your life.
You give them power over you. They got your whole life in their hand.
Because you said it, you said it. They didn't do this.
And because they didn't, they got the keys. Now, I'll be honest, the reason why we don't want to take the keys because we got to drive.
We got to drive. And I told you today, I was too much to do i normally drive i'm like i got too much to do and it felt good to be in the car driven it's been good yeah like i'm going the phone talking to my wife we have a worship doing our thing making a couple business calls like i don't have the responsibility of the traffic paying attention i got that attention he moved over and got i was like why is he stopping in the middle of on the but it was a uh truck truck was going so he had to move up I didn't know what was going on because it was the first time in my life that I wasn't really like responsible because I normally drive and that's why people don't want to drive in their lives they don't want to be responsible it's so much easier to say my life is messed up because you did this and you did that.
Once you take the keys now, you got to go anything. But I'm going to tell you this, this is why I like it.
While it's more responsibility, it's more freedom. It's more independence.
It's more control. Opportunities.
They're limited. But the limitless when you take the keys.
And so I took the keys in my life and said, my thanks. Dad, thanks there for me you gave me a dog you gave me a passion you gave me a resilience you taught me how to make it when the very thing that's supposed to be there for you isn't there for you and i tell people what i want some key asked me the other day he's like man wouldn't you say your son is lucky because you're in his life and his mom is in his life? I said yes and no.
I said yes, he's blessed to have his mom and dad, but he ain't got that dog. He doesn't have the hunger? He ain't got that dog.
Oh, man. My son is a great kid.
But he doesn't have the drive. He ain't got the same drive I got.
And that drive came without some stuff that I had. That stuff came from lack.
And so I say to anybody, you got to understand it could go either way. But when you take the, it's like I walk into a school and I ask, how many of y'all? 50 kids.
How many of your kids in here? A thousand kids. How many of your dads, one in your life was not living in a house? 90% raised in here.
And guess what? I automatically can relate to them to him. That's the je ne sais quoi, that my daddy wasn't there.
That's the it factor. If my father had been there, I might not be able to go in here and relate.
Or my videos that go viral, people are like, okay, maybe if I just had air voice, or if I just scream and I just look passionate. Yeah, yeah.
Bro, that's not what it is. It's when I i speak you hear it because i've been through what you've been through wow and so you you recognize that voice you recognize the pain you recognize the struggle but you recognize i overcame it and that's why you're like i want to rock with this dude because this one ain't some kind of way eric ain't the one that's making us feel like oh it's okay that you went through this and it's okay that this – and it's okay if you don't want to grow, and it's okay if you don't want – no, what you hear from me is a coach that's saying, Jordan, you got six rings in you, but you got to stop playing this way, and you got to start playing this way.
Kobe, you got great – but you got to do it this way. Serena, you got a – Venus, you got a – Richard Williams is saying, he's not out there just.
Good job. He's teaching, training, but he's also correcting.
And so for me, they hear my voice. I'm not letting you get away with murder because greatness is in you.
The greatness is in you. And now it's time to go to school.
It's time to go to work and bring that greatness out of you. So just anybody, anybody could be successful, but as long as you're playing the blame game, you have given permission, the license, registration, the keys, you give it all over to somebody else.
And the day you take it is the day that you can start deciding which direction you wanna go. Wow.
So that sounds like step one, take the keys the keys back to your life take the keys back what would steps two and three be for setting people up for their ultimate life what would that beginning process is it is it get clear on a goal is it start with motivation start with discipline like change your habits what would the next couple steps be to set up the mindset for success i would say step two and and i don't know why they don't teach this in school like be your first best friend you know like get to know you we're so busy wanting to be in a community that we don't realize we are a community right and look i'm not trying to not trying to be deep. You know, people, you know, you believe this,

you don't believe in this.

But what I was taught, you know, in school,

especially Catholic school,

it seemed like Adam was by himself first.

It doesn't seem like it was like somebody else.

It was like Adam was first,

and then whatever happened after that.

So the first man was by himself.

And I think that's important for those of us

who study that.

Why?

Because all of us think we have to have somebody

to be somebody. And this guy started his journey on his own before he connected with somebody.
Whatever. He knew his purpose.
You know, he walked in his confidence. And a lot of us are going, I hear people say all the time, well, I'm not doing good in life.
Why not nobody I'm not in the relationship I'm saying you're telling me no listen to me very closely do you think for one minute that getting in a relationship with somebody it can't be the key because so many people have gotten in relationships and got out of it so that can't be the key now two healthy people not perfect but two healthy people coming together oh no that no, that's different. It's expansive.
But guess what has to happen? You've got to be healthy with you. You can be healthy with you.
You can be with this. So we even messing each other up when we have two dysfunctional people trying to connect with each other because we think two functional people going to come together and make each other happy.
It's not going to work. So I just think the first step after the first step is you've got to figure out who you are and love you and feel good about you and show up in the ring you and not care what nobody think about you and that's that's why this this relationship has worked so well for me over the years because when we're together it's never been a thing of e why you do that why you do that or e why you do that it's always been like e you have a unique set of skills that make you great you have a unique set and so we've always focused on what's our unique skills and what do you know that i don't know and how can you help me get there and so a lot of these young kids are joining things they shouldn't join and being with people because they think their happiness is going to come from being with somebody else and i just think if you you be, if the eagles aren't trying to, they just are, they're not trying, lions aren't, what do you think about me? What do you think about my roar? You think I'm too loud when I roar? They're not concerned.
And so I think step two, figure out who you are, love you. And step three, figure out your North Star and wake up every single day going after your North Star because when you have a North Star you know and the people that you love and you spend time with have a North Star have a purpose and their purpose might be we both have people whose purposes are help us with our purpose yes they don't necessarily have a an individual purpose right like they felt like they were called to help us to serve our mission that's it so we need a north star so they can know what their north star yeah so that would be my my third one it's like you've got to figure out what makes you happy and again i'm not saying there's anything wrong with um first time i did a behind the scenes coming in here just because i was like to my patreon community like yo y'all need to understand where I am and what's going on but I don't if you follow me on Instagram or or TikTok wherever I'm on you don't see behind the scenes I think that's a phenomenal tool to show other people what but my wife is private so so for us that does not work she does not want to be seen in the La La.
She doesn't want to be in Dubai and stop and go, let's take a, let's document what we're doing. She doesn't like that.
So for some people it works, but I don't have to do that to still find a space, right? There's some people, you know, they do tours, right? I don't do tours. That's not my thing.
I used to do them. I don't do them do them now there's some people that write books some people don't write books like it doesn't matter but what matters is you have to find a thing that wakes you up yes at three o'clock or six o'clock or ten o'clock like you got to find the thing that brings the life out of you the joy out of you the happiness out of you and you can't do that following somebody else's north style so my last one would be man figure out what you was put on this earth to do.
And I mean, every single chance you have to do it, do it. And when you're not doing it, enjoy your life.
My son was like, I'm tired. I say, you tired? You burnt out for what? Look at your mom and dad.
You work for the family. What are you doing? Well, I've been up the last six days working 10, 12 hours.
I said, for what? What would you be doing that for? Like, why wouldn't you take advantage of the... He said, what should I be doing? I said, you should figure out what it is you do.
He's a designer, right? You should be designing clothes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, whenever, five, six hours a day. And then Saturday, Sunday, or Friday, Saturday, because of of your family you should get a trip somewhere and go spend it with um a friend you should go see the you should go to italy you should go to rome so you should go to south africa so you should go to the gold coast in australia son what are you like you should what are you doing like you should work but a part of work also is where is your play you should play we worked hard so you could be back so don't be like us we grew up in a working class home we grew up in detroit we grew up blue collar you're not blue collar so go enjoy your life be balanced so i'm not just saying find your north star in terms of what you've been called to do for others but there should be a healthy amount of time that you spend enjoying your life, you know, and enjoying the little time that you have here.
We both know we won't be doing this podcast 100 years from now. Sure.
We don't know how much longer we have, but I won't be 154 sitting down talking to you. So however much time I have left, I need to work hard and I need to enjoy that time.
Absolutely. Those are beautiful, man.
I've heard you talk about a concept I want to share in a second. But I feel like there's a group of people we've been talking to, you've been talking to, that are the people that maybe don't have the opportunities they want, they don't have the life they want, they feel like people are holding them down.
That down that's one group then there's another group of people which i feel like is a majority of people that have a good life it's okay it's good but they don't they're not living a great life for themselves maybe they got a good job and they're pretty healthy got a decent relationship but something there's like something missing i think if you can if that resonates with anyone listening or watching, comment below or leave a like if you feel like, yeah, my life is good, but I feel like something's off. You have this great concept called creating a mental rock bottom to push yourself towards your goals.
Can you share more about kind of some practical steps of creating your own mental rock bottom so that you can go to the next level in your life? Okay, I want to use the term that you use, and you said create. And I just think so many of us have stepped into careers, that group.
We have worshiped careers more than we worship create. And so the first thing I would say to that group is what would life look like if you did it on your terms? Because now you're really not doing on your terms what you've done is say yo if i want to survive if i want to strive this is what i have to do and you have allowed people to tell you okay you need to be an engineer or you need to be and you need to move it so you've done a phenomenal job and and being.
You've done a phenomenal job in complying. Yes.
Like you've done a phenomenal job. You follow the

rules. Yes.
Congratulations. You know what I'm saying? Like you didn't rob a bank.
You

know what I'm saying? Like you haven't done anything illegal. You did exactly what a good

child should do. And I have a daughter that I have to get on her sometimes because she's

that child that's like, yo, dad, what do you guys want me to do? And I said, do me a favor. Don't always be obedient.
Like you need to sit down and ask yourself if you weren't thinking about the family's name, if you didn't, if Eric Thomas, ET the hip hop preacher was not your father, what would you be doing? What would you be doing if you didn't have to worry about honoring, you know, the dynasty? And you do a phenomenal job of honoring this dynasty. I'm not saying anything.
Went to school, handled your business. You've never been in trouble before.
We've never had to spend money doing anything. You've been a phenomenal child.
But what would you do if you live life on your terms and you were able to go where you want to do? And so that's the first thing I would ask them to do. I want you to think about your life instead of the life.
Because that's what you've been thinking about. The life.
Now think about your life and I want you to start putting it everywhere. Now the next thing I want you to do is I want you to know that if you have the ability, like I'll never forget, CJ was like, okay, E, you know what you're missing? That the big boy, all the big boy speakers, you know what you're missing you're missing i was like no he was like the new york times bestseller now i'm not telling you you got to do it but i'm saying that's what's missing you know you got it we got it so he was like first of all do you want it uh-huh do you want it don't do it because i'm saying but do you want it yeah and he could elevate you but do you want and i was like yeah i want it the next question because what does it take to want it? Don't do it because I'm saying you need it.
But do you want it? And it could elevate you, but do you want it? And I was like, yeah, I want it. The next question because what does it take to do it? And then am I willing to do what it takes to get it? Yeah.
That's it. Because it's a lot.
It's a lot. But here's the thing.
I believe if you think about it, it is only because somewhere inside of you, you have what it takes. Now, capacity is something totally different yes that's different but i want every human to know you wouldn't be watching the school you wouldn't be watching or listening to the school of greatness if you didn't believe you were great i'm just i'm just for real you you wouldn't be spending time with this man on the regular basis i'm telling you i wouldn't be uh going to columbus right i drove to columbus bro it's not a trust me when i tell you it's not a you don't get off the freeway like it's not 65 to get up why did i go because this man is great and greats want to hang with greats i need y'all to understand look y'all may.
Listen to me. I've got Nomad suitcases that I still carry this day because he gave them to me.
Like, I didn't buy a new one. I've carried the exact same ones that he gave me.
And my son bought a set because I had a set. Because it reminds me of him when I travel.
It's like greatness. So you wouldn't be watching.
You wouldn't be locked in. Something in your spirit has you tuned into this bed because you know you're great.
Now you got to say to yourself, am I willing to cooperate with the greatness that's in me? And then once you do and you start consistently operating in that, you're going to feel good about it. Here's what you have to do.
You have to understand, Andre DeShields, I think, said, the top of one mountain is the bottom of the next. Wow.
So you get to the top of the mountain, but you understand, the GED was just one. The foreign degree was just one.
The master was just, after the PhD, was the New York Times. After that, it's the assessments, it's the training, it's the coaching.
I'm in masterminds. I get coached.
Right? And so it's this idea of yesterday's greatness can't be enough because I'm alive today. So if I'm alive today, it must be some more greatness in me.
And it's my job, like the toothpaste, it's my job not to just lose. I don't know about you, but I would just use a little bit of it and get another one.
You're getting the last drop. I'm squeezing.
I got money. I'm squeezing that toothpaste.
Why? Because I'm trying to get everything out the tube before I go to another one. And with my life, before I get out of here, which is why I could murder myself, that I didn't realize at 12 that I was great.
And that's why I say you got to check in 2025, you 2025, right? Because I didn't know I was great. And once I checked and realized how great I was, I was like, bro, we going to keep doing this.
And to the day we die. And so I would just say to you, you're watching, you're in this space, you're reading his books, you're going to his conferences because you know it's in you and it's time to stop being lazy and it's time to activate it.
I love that, man. Well, here's the thing why I think a lot of people might stay stuck is they allow their feelings to keep them in a place of frustration.
you have this great example that you say execution should be fact-based, not feeling-based, but people feel the overwhelm of the economy or the government or their parents or their partner or whatever the responsibilities of the world. They feel anxious, avoidant, overwhelmed, burnt out, like doubtful, insecure, and they allow feelings to consume their inaction.
So what's an example of how someone can shift from being driven by emotions into factor-based actions towards their goals? It was what you teach, man. The meditation thing, people don't take it serious.
This is the time to get control of your mind and for most of us our mind is in control of us so when you talk about meditating it's like this is a habit of the greats and one of that and and and one of the habits of those individuals who are not where they want to be is i'm not trying to be funny but it's like lazy to absolutely meditate regularly is a discipline it is man it's not easy it's not easy to get control of your i'm like where did that thought come from right so so guys let's go back to the 12 year old that found the birth certificate right we found the birth certificate we found the birth certificate in the emotional state. Mm.
Oh, yeah. We found it in an emotional state.
Yeah.

Listen to me. I'm not the first kid who has ever gone through this experience.
And you know what? I had to ask myself in that mirror at 16, 17, 18. I had to keep asking myself, when you saw it, why did you see it that way? Why did you not call your mom and say mom you wouldn't talk about this why didn't you go hey mom the counselor can we go sit down and talk to the counselor hey mom call dad can we just sit down and i listen to me i went from i can't believe that you would do me like this if i went from a ball of emotions to living in abandoned buildings yeah it was the most it decision I had probably ever made.
I put myself in so much danger as a 12-year-old, 13-year-old homeless. Based on emotions.
On emotions. So the same document, nothing changed about it.
But if I could go back as this adult and look at that, I would look at it as facts and go, wow, your mother protected you you wow your mom loved you so much that she didn't want you with your biological father because she thought he could be a threat right wrong or indifferent your mom didn't do this because she was trying to hurt you your mom did this because she was trying to protect you your mom brought you into a family your mom didn't try to hide the identity she wanted this man to be your father he didn't he changed your name and gave you his last name wow he treated me as if i was his own wow he didn't lie he made his family treat me as if i was and don't ever say anything about my past because my past has nothing to do with him making a decision at the courthouse to be my dad wow it's the same document what emotional the other one is factual your mother loves you your mother cares for you your mother's trying to put you in a healthy environment your mother has a job your mother married somebody who was a foreman at gm he has a job he has a college degree he played basketball he's a responsible man protects his family. But emotion wouldn't let me be rational.
Emotional wouldn't let me think rationally. It had me irrational.
So I would say when you make emotional decisions, you get emotional consequences. But it takes meditation.
It takes controlling of the mind to say, how should I behave?

How should I think in this situation?

And what's going to give me the best outcome?

And I'm going to be honest.

I've learned we can save the emotions for when I'm looking at the nomad bag and going, man, that's my boy.

Thank you.

Why would you even buy me?

Like, what would make you think of, and this is a perfect gift?

You know what I'm saying?

Like, I didn't think to buy suitcases for myself. That's where the emotion be me coming in seeing you hugging you what's up fam but when it comes to business yeah when it comes to being a leader and a decision maker we're not doing emotions we're doing empirical evidence wow we're doing facts what does the fact say what does the research say what does the evidence say okay and based on the research and the is the game plan.
Let's go. It doesn't matter how you feel.
Yeah. Yeah, it don't matter how you feel.
Man, I love this. Yeah.
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Again, if we're talking about really developing kind of a bulletproof mindset when the last

five years for a lot of people has been a lot of stress, overwhelming anxiety. In order to have a more powerful, resilient mindset, how important is it for not just me and you, because I already know the answer for me and you, how important is it for everyone to have mentors in their life it's everything man listen to me i never even thought about being a multi-millionaire or billionaire until i was in the room with warren buffett i never even i didn't even know how much it was worth when i was in the ruins afterwards and then this all started making says okay now i know who i am you I am, you, 2025, like, check, I know who I am.
Now it's, oh, real estate is a way? Oh, so you mean to tell me that being a blue collar, okay, that's what my parents knew, but you don't make a whole bunch of money worth it. You make more money when you put your money to work.
Oh, that's real estate? Oh, helping kids who are talented figure out their talent, taking a percentage. Oh, okay.
I didn't even know this stuff exists. Got it.
And so it is, it is important. Bob Proctor pulling me to the side.
How much do you charge? You should be charging. Les Brown calling me and said, I'll meet you in Orlando.
Les Brown sitting me down, talking to him. Listen to me.
Coaching is everything. Why?

Because I just said,

think of Michael Jordan without Phil Jackson.

Right.

Think of Venus in Surin,

Venus in Surin,

without Richard Williams.

Like, yo,

I just want you to picture Kobe

without Phil Jackson.

Think, think about

Tim Brooke without,

Mike without,

you know what I'm saying?

Tim Groy, yeah, yeah.

Come on, now Tim.

Where would he, so, so, coaching is critical critical here's what's gonna blow your mind when you get to our level you really need more coaching because we didn't exhaust all the stuff you really need coaching after jordan after jordan won his first championship he didn't say i think i've got it figured out on my own i don't need a coach he said let me find tim to train me let me find the mindset coach the recovery coach you know make sure we're getting to the next level they said they said i i read it but it's research i'm almost sure it's true that lebron look at lebron what he's doing right now it's amazing man bro 40 a 40 checking dunking whoever had the arguments you know what i'm saying because there were those of us who was alive yeah we watched george do his thing but bro when lebron is doing right now but when i do my research and not emotional about oh how is he doing this hey no when i do my research he's spending 1.5 million on his body recovery coaches meaning dietary coaches everything meaning mental and emotional coaches acting Like he got all. And so you see the decision he made and you see, okay, yeah, he was great.
But that investment that he made in himself and now look, his son is in and then he got another son. These are decisions that he's making.
He's not emotional. These decisions are based on facts of experts.
And then we're seeing the outcomes of it.

We're seeing the numbers that he's putting up at this age versus the,

and nobody's ever put these kinds of numbers up at this particular age.

So we all need coaches, you know?

And so that's why I've made the decision that E,

the one area that you need to step up in, speaking is good,

traveling the world, talking, but you gotta, the same way people open up doors for you and walk you through you have got to do the same thing and i've literally the last two years have had a small group of people that every morning i wake up with and i train them for an hour every single morning it's amazing and what's amazing about that is to see the difference between people i coach and people who watch me online wow it's a difference you watching me online you're getting the motivation but you're not getting the daily schedule you're not getting the things to do list yeah you're not you're not getting the the mindset you're not getting the analytics you're not getting the blueprint so it's like you're watching and then you are in turn this is why i think audio books are good but i think training with our books are good because people will read our books and interpret them in a way that we didn't intend for to interpret it yeah so when we do the training or they get to come to a conference where they get to watch the podcast they're really investing more to what was what was he really saying? And if they can do what you're saying, that habit, they can get the outcomes of me and you get that habit. Yeah, and it's also being around other people who are in that mindset, who are pushing, and you're seeing them grow, and it's influencing you to grow, and you're the community aspect of, we're getting coached together, we're growing together, we're working our goals together, all that stuff.
You've got an amazing challenge coming up. It's you2025.com where you're going to put people through a lot of what we've been talking about and more.
21 days. 21 days every day, coaching, teaching, mentoring, giving them schedule.
What I actually do, not just the passion and stuff you hear online, but the actual, and for free, what you, I'm gonna walk you through how many steps I take a day, what I'm drinking, why did I decide to wake up at this time? Why am I doing this? So that you can start the year off. There should be like in class, especially if you go to college, it should be like UOU 101, UOU 215, UOU 312.

Like literally, you get to sit down and go,

what, who am I?

What are my skills?

What are the things that I'm challenged with?

Like what industries would I be best in?

We spend so much time trying to get that.

I don't think we spend a bit of nipping. Like, who should we become? Yeah, that's beautiful, man.
So they can go to u2025.com to register for that. That's powerful, man.
I feel like I could talk to you for a long time on this. But I wanted to ask you a couple more questions before we wrap up.
Again, we're going back to the 12-year-old you who's down and out figuring about your dad's not your biological dad in your life, your mom lied, you know, challenges in life. And we're talking about where you're at now.
Where do you think you'd be without a spiritual relationship with God in your life over the last 30 plus years with all the ups and downs, where would you be in life right now, the ETU with no spiritual relationship? I'd say either dead. I'd say dead.
Really? Yeah. Because I was an extremist.
You know, everything I did, I did it to the fullest, you know, so I think I would be dead, honestly. I would say this to simplify for people, because sometimes when you talk spirituality, for some people it's just too deep.
I would say to you, what happened when I made a commitment to God is that I connected with the person that made me, that knew me like nobody else knew me, and he coached me from the 12-year-old to God. He coached me.
He's like, bro, I know you, I made you. I know what's the best environments for you.
I know who's good for you, who's not good for you. I know your temptations.
I know your vices. I know your good habits, your bad habits, and just let me teach you.
And so it was maybe five, six years of fighting. Resisting.
Resisting. Because he introduced himself to me at eight, and I guess maybe it was too young, but homeless.
I was like at 16, like, OK, I'm ready to get coached. Where's that coaching program you sent you? I'm ready for that coach.
And so from 16 to maybe 25, you know, it was like, OK, I'm going to come to coaching some days, some days I'm not, some days I'm going in, some days I'm not. And my son was born i was almost 25 years old jaylen was born and um jaylen was born in 1995 i turned um 25 in september he was born july 20th and when jaylen was born it was the day coach said to me this is why i've been trying to train you because I wanted you to be the best father you could be.
And so you miss him. You miss him.
Classes. You miss him.
Lessons. Your son is here now.
He needs the best version of you. We can't we can't we can't repeat the mistakes of the past.
And so I need you to hurry up. And so when Jalen was born from that day forward, you know, I remember when he was born, I held him.
It was kind of like he looked at me like, you're the person that's going to take care of me. Wow.
You know, and that was the day. And this is what a lot of you are running from.
It's the R word. And I get it because it's tough.
Responsibility. That was the day where it's like, oh, you got to be responsible for somebody else.
Yeah. You cannot.
You got I've never played a video game since jaylen was born wow i've never read more books since jaylen was born that first year or two that i ever read in my life i took my career seriously speaking i start you know zig ziggler you know nightingale you know augmentino yeah you know bob proctor all these bro you name them dennis kimbrough. Like, I went deep.
I went heavy. You know, Arthur Ashe, you know, Days of Great.
And I read everything. I was in the library like an addict just studying and studying and studying.
And it was because I didn't want some of the consequences of the past to come in this generation. You know, and so for me, it was like, yo, got to handle your business and i just heard i was more attentive i started getting up at six and then i'd play this game daylight saving times would come i would okay say don't follow it stay up at five is the new and then the next year the four and then i got started getting up at three and i started getting up at three o'clock in the morning because it was still there was no dogs outside.
Nobody was driving around the family was sleep and I was like, OK coach, I'm sorry, let's go back over the lessons I didn't get and let's go over the new lessons or coach me show show me nobody knows me and I tell people I had a brand new Cadillac many at 10,000 miles and the engine blue and I immediately took it back to Cadillac and take it to BMW. I didn't take it to Honda.
I took it straight to Cadillac. And I went right back to the creator.
I was like, yo, you made me. And I'm tearing this car up.
I'm not putting oil in it. I'm not changing the, rotating the tires.
I'm not putting fluid in it. Show me how to take care of this.
And he began to show me how to do it. And it's just like amazing to see when we're on one accord and I'm following.

He told me, he's like, you know, it's time.

I think I called you maybe last year.

I'm like, you know, I need to.

And he was like, no, no, you're just supposed to call and say, what's up?

You know, and then this time it was like, yep, you need to do it.

You know, I was like, all right, I got it.

Brandon, I think I was like, all right.

You know, so just listen to him doing what he's telling me to do.

I coach me.

So I would say, you know, don't spiritualize it and make make it to do is the coach and just get a relationship with the coach let the coach get a relation with you and just do what he told you to do when you go to the results and so I don't want to just be happy I want to create it ago. Yeah, I'm grateful that I created you and I see you're doing in the world with it was that I wanted you to do and now also for yourself what I wanted you to do because I wanted you to be happy to I didn't want your life to just be about work and being a blessing I wanted you to be blessed as well so that's it.
You're very driven person you've shown that over your whole career right in. Overcome a lot of different challenges and adversities in the first time in so many different ways.
When someone is going through a dark time, and however that looks for them, a breakup, a death, a letdown, any type of dark time in their life, is it possible to keep being driven in your career,

in your goals, in your dreams

when you're going through sadness and darkness

and grief and loss

without also being able to heal on the process?

Can you heal and be driven at the same time?

Or is it only you can be driven

because you're masking the pain and the suffering

and you're not actually addressing it?

Thank you. and be driven at the same time? Or is it only you can be driven because you're masking the pain and the suffering

and you're not actually addressing it?

Is it possible to do both, be driven in the darkness?

Yeah.

Well, that's what's so beautiful

about this experience in life, right?

Is that like we don't have to be one dimensional,

that all things can be true at the same time.

You know, it's the reason why it's like,

I remember once shortly after peter had died uh i was sitting with a friend and she was telling me a story and i started laughing hysterically you know it was like yeah it was like from my belly you know the kind of laugh that makes you want to fall over and slap something you know that kind of laugh and then almost, oh, I'm supposed to be sad. You know, I'm not supposed to laugh like this.
The truth of the matter is that, like, isn't that what life is? You know, even when you're grieving, you can have belly laughs that take you out of that pain for however long that is. Maybe it's a second or maybe it's five minutes or maybe it's a few days.
You know, so, like, if you place can you still be driven of course you can you know it's not a constant either though you know where like being gentle with yourself and knowing that like even when you're in the darkness there will be times when you don't feel like getting up but then it's not forever you know or to feel badly that you're driven, even though you're going through something, you know? So like, even when, yeah, it was like, when I decided to move from New York and take the next job, and people were like, shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere, crying your eyes out? You know, like, why are you so ambitious? Sit down. You know? And, yeah, I did question myself, too.
Like, why am I not sitting down somewhere? Like, why am I still out here pushing? You know, like, there have been many, many moments like that. And I don't think that there has to be only one definition for how we are.
You know?

So, like, yes, if you're in a place where you feel like the textbook expectation

should be that you should take one step at a time, take it one day at a time.

I hate that phrase, by the way.

Instead of taking it one day at a time, what should we do?

Oh, we should take it all.

Do everything.

All at once. Make it messy.
Make it unpredictable. Defy logic.
Like, why does it have to be so ordered? One day at a time for what? One step at a time for what? Sometimes I'm going to run. Sometimes I'm going to skip.
Sometimes I'm going to go backwards. Sometimes I'm going to lay down.
Sometimes I'm going to sit up and look at the world. And sometimes, yes, I will take one step.
But why does it have to be so ordered all the time? And so the freedom in that, I think, allows us then to be multiple things at one time. So that, yes, you can be driven and in a dark place.
You can be hurting and still laugh. You can be healing and still trying to figure out how to avoid the next hurt.
All of those things can be true at the same time. It doesn't have to mean that you're wrong or that you're doing it wrong.
It's like there's no definition for how you're supposed to live your life. And I think that's also the other beautiful thing, the fact, no one has ever been where I am before.
Another person on the planet, you know, and so it's like, why would I subscribe to this step somebody else thinks I should be ordered for me? There's no plan. No one fully understands your life experiences.
They might be able to relate to some things, but they don't fully understand and comprehend everything. Yeah, yeah there's so much freedom in that yeah it's like you don't have to listen to anybody right exactly you know and so it's like yes you can you can be hurt and trying to heal maybe taking the steps to healing you know whether that's therapy or you're working on something that you feel like or taking a risk that you would have been fearful of before, but still like being driven about this thing or like being, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna accomplish this even though I'm not 100%.
Like that's the thing that always like I'm thinking about is that like, again, you don't have to have a full tank of gas to get to the other side of town. You know what I mean? Maybe you had a quarter tank and you know that it's gonna take you like, you know, just up to that, like, right at that quarter to get there.
You know, it's like, go anyway. Why does the tank have to be full? You know what I mean? So for me, I'm constantly thinking about that, that like, I'm still in the process of healing.
You know, that whole statement about like, time heals all wounds, it's some bull . Okay.
It does not. Well, it's interesting to say that because I've got an emotional coach that I work with I was telling you about pretty much every two weeks.
And she says like, healing's a journey. It's not like a destination where you're like, okay, now I'm healed.
It's okay, now I've come to an awareness about the things. Now I've started processing it.
Now I'm integrating the lessons. Now I went back two steps because I triggered again.
Now I reintegrate and I process it some more. And time helps, but it may not heal all.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's our constant awareness of it, constant grace in the process of being a human being.
Yes. Of it, you know what I mean? Yes.
You know, he just made me think of something. Because like this idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing, that's like the opposite of living the urgent life.
You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed or you're constantly waiting until that next thing happens or you get to the right spot, then you won't be fulfilled in your life. You know, if I waited to be totally healed from the trauma of my husband dying, I would not have moved across the country.
If I was waiting to be healed from the death of my first child, I would not be a mother today. You know, if I was waiting, like all these things that we're waiting to accomplish or waiting to be fixed before you can do the next thing.
It's just, it's like a waste of time. Yeah, I think it's inspiring when we have the courage to do the next thing and be aware that we're on a healing journey.
Yes, yes., I'm never going to be fully healed, but I'm in the process of it.

I'm working on it. I'm doing this and I'm going to do it anyways.

And there's no shame.

Yeah, exactly.

There's no shame in that.

You know, by the way, that's another like whole unlock that I had for myself and in my career,

believe it or not, was that I opened this vulnerability that I had closed off before you know this idea of the perfection that things had to be great and like complete in order to move to the next thing and very quickly I mean I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy that like I like, I had no idea what music streaming was. I'd never done that before.
I was not an expert in it. But it didn't mean that I couldn't go do it.
And guess what? I figured it out. You know what I mean? Or, like, moving anything in my life which has felt like, gosh, I need to, like, really have conquered this thing in order to move to the next one has been a lie.

And it is actually how I counsel a lot of women,

especially who are like early in their career

or mid career even, you know,

that who are waiting to rack all the things

before they take the next risk.

I'm just like, yo, you know that like

that actually doesn't work, right? Like you can't wait until like you've checked off every box before you jump to the next thing that you gotta do you gotta leave some room for growth you know your your cup is if it's all the way full how you gonna put more stuff in it you know what i'm saying like it's you gotta have a little bit open at the top you want to pour more experiences in there right you know so it's like If you ever just like fall to the brim, you've got to have a little bit open at the top in order to pour more experiences in there.

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You're filling up your relationship cups. You're filling up your adventure and travel cups, you know, your relaxation cup.
You're filling those up, but you're emptying your cup of career and success and this to see the space of what can come in next. That's right.
To see where you can grow into next. So I think it's a great analogy.
It's like, you know, fill another cup, you know. Yeah.
But that cup, you've got to empty it out. Yeah, exactly.
Or get more cups. You know what I mean? Get more cups.
You know what I mean? It's like, maybe my corporate cup is full. Sure.
I have a brand new cup. But you look like you're in your best health and wellness phase of your, you know, since I've known you.
Oh, yeah. Not that you were not in great shape before or emotionally in a good place, but you feel energetically peaceful.
Yeah. I see you training.
I see you like getting healthy in even better ways. I see you with photos with your daughter and things like this and just like enjoying life together, traveling and bringing her in your life more and those trips.
I'm sure you did that before too. And so you're able to experience things in a different way to allow for things to open up, which I think is great.
Absolutely, absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning of this, which is this like, I don't have to have had things complete in order to move to the next thing.
I'm sure there are people who would look at my career and say, oh, but you haven't done that thing yet. Don't you think you should do that before you retire? But like, need it? Probably not.
So it's like, why continue? Why continue to do that thing? So again, I think a lot of it really just has to do with self-reflection at the end of the day. Listening to your own spirit, listening to your own needs and wants, and making sure that you're not lying to yourself, you know, based on the stories that other people have told you, based on narratives that are running around the planet that you've accepted as the truth and maybe were lies.
You know what I mean? So I feel like there's such an opportunity for me to, you know, to relook at everything and yes, be a healthier human and focus more on like, yeah, my physical health. Yes.
And focus on my relationship with my daughter, you know, explore the planet in ways that I haven't before. You know, like in 2022, I did a little Instagram reel about this that I, every month last year, I worked out in a a different country you worked out in a different country yeah it's pretty cool it was fantastic that's awesome but you know it was like god what a dream you know to be in a place where i'm financially secure enough to do that that's cool where i have the time yeah to do that you spent 20 years building your career and you're you're stacking your income and saving and investing so that you have the opportunity after 20 years to do that.
Yeah, and to take advantage of it now. And enjoy it.
Yeah. And have an urgency around it.
Man, because like, what am I gonna do? When I'm 75? Well, hopefully I'll still be working out and still healthy. But you know what I'm saying? Like, waiting for that is not the answer.
So even in that I have urgency. So there's this, I love your story about you were satisfied at 20 something years old in the back of the cab or the black car, and you're satisfied now.
And I think a lot of people hear this concept of never be satisfied. But we were just talking about how, you know, be satisfied with where you are,

but also be striving for your purpose, your mission, and stepping into that.

And what are your thoughts on the idea of never be satisfied?

You know what?

I understand why somebody would say that.

You know, like, you should always be hungry.

Like, you should always be chasing as a good motivator, you know, to get the next thing so that you wake up and you want to go get it. But that's a terrible way to live.
You know, it's like a complete, I vehemently disagree with the concept that you should never be satisfied. You know, it's like you should be satisfied.
You should be satisfied. You should wake up feeling satisfied with your life.
It doesn't mean that you don't want the next thing. Of course you want the next thing.
But like, if life were to end today, would you want to have lived an unsatisfied life? Would you want, like, I think, I really do think of Peter at those last days. You know, and think about all the things that he was unsatisfied about.
I don't want that for myself. I don't want that for you.
I don't think any of us should live that way. So be satisfied.
You know, and that doesn't mean lesser than. Be satisfied even if you're just starting out as an assistant getting coffee.
If you're the CEO, if you're anywhere in between if you're in an off season yes be satisfied be satisfied with like how wonderful you have it you know even the least of us even the people who are like you know in this terrible place like i said like we can't be satisfied like the day after peter died um actually, no. It was a few days later because we were having his funeral.
He died on December 11, 2013. It was four days before his 44th birthday.
And so on his 44th birthday, December 15, we had his funeral and made it a party. Wow.
And I was sitting there and, you know, kind of in a haze, but then also, you know, that moment of clarity where I'm looking around the room and, like, his fraternity brothers are drinking beers and they're sharing stories about him. And, you know, my daughter's, like, sleeping on my mom's lap.
And I've got my sisters, like, in the corner trying to busy themselves, you know, like, getting out plates of food and whatnot and see people connecting. And it was the oddest thought.
You know, I looked around. I was just like, wow, like.
This is a good group. You know, this is a great place to be, to have this.
And so I was satisfied in that moment. The most terrible thing had happened in my life but I was looking around and feeling very satisfied with who I had around me and that I think is what I would like for all of us to consider that even when things are bad and going wrong you can still be satisfied.
You can still feel like, ah, this is it. And it is okay.
I'm a big fan of the title of the book, The Urgent Life. And when I saw this, I was just thinking to myself, yes, right away, because we have similar, completely different experiences, but similar feelings probably from experiences we've had so my father went got in an accident he had a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for three months when i was 21 and i remember he we didn't know if he was going to live or die but he eventually woke after three months.
And he was a completely different person. Like he was physically alive, but emotionally and mentally kind of gone.
It took him a while to like learn how to talk again. He wasn't able to work anymore.
He had amnesia. So when I'd see him, he'd be like, what's your name again? It was just a different type of relationship, right? I had to learn to love my father for who he was

and start to grieve the man that he once was before, right?

And I remember thinking he was in his early 50s when this happened.

He had worked so hard for 30 years as a life insurance salesman

where he finally was starting to make money

where he could travel and have some freedom in his life. And he was starting to feel like he was happy for the first time, fully happy.
And then this accident happened. And I remember being really angry at life that my dad didn't get to go live the rest of his life the way he wanted to.
And I felt like I had so much urgency to go pursue everything I wanted. Like from that moment on, I was like, I'm not gonna let any fear or insecurity hold me back.
It might still be there, but I'm at least gonna take the actions on my goals, my dreams and live urgently. Because what if this happens to me? What if I get in a car accident tomorrow? And something like that happens to me, I'd be sad that I didn't at least go try.
And this, you know, again, completely different experience you had, but it created a feeling of urgency in your life with your ex-husband, right? With your husband. And which was almost 10 years ago.
Is that right? And can you explain the story about what had happened with your husband around wanting to get divorced and then the cancer situation and how being at a very dark, sad, challenging time, sad time, wanted you to create urgency at the same time and live into your best self during sadness. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you just said

and shared about your dad, you know,

because I feel that for all of us who are living this life

on this, like, hurtling rock that we call home,

we don't always have to have had the same experience

to understand essentially the concept

of what I'm talking about.

Right.

You know, this need for urgency.

And it's not necessarily about the rush through life.

It's about the intention.

Mm-hmm.

You know, knowing, like you said,

like, you know, I want to do these things

because what if?

So then you're intentional about saying,

okay, I want to live a big life

or I want to go do this thing that I'm dreaming of or I want to push a little harder because like, what if, right? And the same thing for me in that, like, I don't think of the end of life in this morbid way where I'm just like, oh, today might be my last day. I don't think of it in a morbid way.
It's very inspiring to me, actually. It makes me want to get up and go do the thing, you know? And again, it's not about a rush's like I want to I want to make the best use of my time that I have I don't know how long it is but I want to make the best use of it and I'm also conscious of the fact that I won't do everything and so that means that I have to be very intentional about the things I choose to do you know yes because if you walk around thinking like oh I have the time I'll just do everything at some point, then maybe you don't get to do anything at all.
So I'm intentional in knowing that like, oh, okay, I might not get a chance to complete everything. So what's the most important thing? And then I want to do those things.
And so at the time in December of 2013, when Peter passed away, we were there, you know, where the stories are true. You're sitting at the deathbed, and you're talking about all the things you wish you'd done.
Is that what he was saying? Oh, yeah. We talked about so much.
Oh, man. The things he wanted to do, his hopes and dreams, what he wants for Lael, our daughter, like what he wanted for her in the future, you know, all of those things.
And I was sitting there listening and thinking and crying and making promises and all of the things and knowing that I need to change the way I live. You know, he wouldn't have a chance to do it over.
So I need to do it. And it was such a dark time also because we were already going through so much on top of being at death's door.
That our marriage had fallen apart. We had been separated for a couple of years already through so much, gosh, additional traumas that happened to us, misunderstandings, anger, you know, that we couldn't overcome with just love.
You know, you think that like- Unmet expectations, everything, yeah. Oh man, you think love conquers everything.
And no, it does not. Love is not enough.
Love is not enough. You know, love is not enough.
And it was all of that turmoil that led us to that moment where I am sitting holding his hand and his breath gets shallower and shallower, you know, and thinking about all the things I would have done differently if I had a shot to do it again. You know? It's not necessarily that, like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently.
It's just that I wish I had been motivated differently. What were you motivated by before then? Oh, man.
I think at that time I was motivated by just my own need for my own life you know not really focus on anybody else's hmm and that's that sounds very selfish but that's where I was right you know it was it was not I I was a mother and a wife I was so only focused on myself really yeah yeah I mean know, there was so much that, um, had happened on my path to motherhood. And it's another one of the things that like, you know, now I talk about so openly because we also paint motherhood.
Like it's supposed to be like this great, amazing thing that like, Oh, you get pregnant and then all of a sudden it's like, Oh, all this love shows up from from nowhere and you're just like encapsulated by this

person it's like no that that actually doesn't happen all of the time you know moments of that

might happen moments of that might happen but the majority of time is probably like cleaning diapers

and feeding and pumping and all the things that moms have to do and sitting there and being like oh hell i made a mistake right this is this is not what i wanted in my life you know and struggling with that and there were so many times where i thought about that you know it's like wow like you know is is is this life what i actually wanted and so then at that moment in december of 2013 i was like oh no i have to make the life wow that i want i have to make it i have to be an active participant in it you don't just sit back and let Let the life happen to you. You have to make it.
I have to be an active participant in it. You don't just sit back and

let the life happen to you. You have to make it.
Wow. What was the biggest lesson during that time

you feel like you learned about his regrets, about him not doing the things that he wanted to do? What opened up for you during that time that shifted, if anything did shift for you? This might sound funny, but I think logic is what surprised me most. The logic of things.
The writing down. It's almost like the writing down of the plan.
You know, things that make sense? Because you're like, oh, I'm going to do these things. I'm logically going to take these steps in order to get to that thing, right? And all of his regrets, everything that he wanted to do that he didn't get a chance to do was based on the logic of the steps to get to that thing that he never got to.
Like just scheduling it in the calendar or like booking the trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, making the to-do list and then yeah.
And then it's like, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that and then all based on logic. Life is not made of logic, Life is magic.
It's the accidental encounters. It's the things that you can't explain.
The feeling that you get in your belly that makes you feel alive and glittery or it makes you super sad and you don't want to get out of bed and the sky just looks gray and then maybe one thing happens you're like oh okay I can do it. You know that's that's life And being open to that is actually what gives you the experiences.
So therefore, when perhaps you don't accomplish everything that was on your plan, you still feel really happy about the things that you did do, because it was also magical. You know, and I'm not talking about like these big firework things.
I'm talking about the little stuff too. You know, that you meet on the way to somewhere.
Or the meal that you had that you didn't think was going to be delicious that you just really savored. Yeah.
It was just magically amazing. And just being appreciative of those moments.
So again, it's like the life is not just about the big, big big, big stuff. It's not the headlines.
You know? So to me, it's like logic is what I then threw out the window. Interesting.
I was like, oh, I'm not going to live a logical life. I'm going to live a magical life.
The kind that is open to all of the things I can't explain. You know, that like the writing down of the list and the making the steps.
And I'm not saying saying that you walk around just like huh whatever happens today is what happens you know like look we all got to be responsible but the truth of matter is that like how many of our plans have been stopped because of logic the things that you said like ah well shoot i can't do that because of this reason that reason. And sometimes it's other people's logic that actually stops you from doing things you want to do.

And so I want to stop that.

I've been active in being like every time I approach a new ambition or a new idea or like,

oh, I want to take a trip here, and that logic starts to come in, I'm like, girl, where's that magic?

You better just step out and let the magic find you.

Ooh, yeah.

You know?

And not stop yourself because the math is mathing.

Right.

It doesn't make sense logically.

Nah, it doesn't make sense logically.

Allow wonder and synchronicity to enter your life.

Yes, to happen.

Lewis, I can't tell you how many things have happened in my life that don't make sense.

Right.

The fact that I've had the career i've

had doesn't make sense it's not it's not logical there's no stat even when you look at things like oh you know how many black women cmos have had jobs you know for like fortune 50 companies there's no math there is no there's no data point because it doesn't exist yeah but i But I exist. So can you explain that? No, you cannot.
So opening yourself up to like these things is what actually creates your destiny to like run the way that it should. You know? Listeners, NerdWallet wants you to let them do the work for you.
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That's livegood.com slash greatness. I'll give you one example.
When Peter died in December of 2013, I was at PepsiCo. I'd been there for 10 years.
It was a great job. I'd done many iterations of things.
And at that time, I was the head of music and entertainment marketing. And so I had been part of the team that did deal with the NFL for the Super Bowl halftime show I put Beyonce on that stage like it was like you know it was huge have a great exciting career and then Peter died and I looked around and I was like man like you know I think I want to do more things you know am I going to sit here for another 10 years in New York City, like, doing this?

Or have I had enough of this?

And as I formulated that thought, I went to, I think it was NBA All-Star or something like that.

And I met somebody that I knew very, you know, lightly, who told me that Jimmy Ivey and Dr. Dre had started their company Beats Music off of the back of Beats by Dre and that they were looking for head of marketing, would I be interested? And the job was in LA.
My husband had been dead maybe two months. I had a four year old child that I was trying to figure out how to raise by myself, you know, like all these things.
And so logic would tell you that no, sit your down. You know what I mean? Like, situate your life.
Figure out how to be a widow and a single mom and the main breadwinner. Like, figure that stuff out.
Calm down, get some therapy. You know, just like sit and be quiet for a second.
Grieve. Let a year go by and then figure out what you want to do.
But instead, I was like, it really doesn't make any sense for me to leave Pepsi, a long

established company, and go to Beats Music where it's barely a company.

Some new thing.

I didn't even know what music streaming was.

I had no idea what the hell that was.

I had no idea.

But I came and came to LA and took a meeting with Jimmy and he was talking about stuff that I and no idea and but i came and came to la and took a meeting with jimmy and he was talking about stuff that i had no idea about and when i resigned from pepsico to take the job everybody told me it was a bad idea it was going to tell you there was not one person who supported it not even my mother wow no one everybody thought'd lost my mind. People thought I was acting out of grief.
Maybe I was. But the magic was that that opportunity opened up the next 10 years of my life.
Yeah. It was the magic, the spark that I needed.
It changed everything for me, Lewis. Everything.
And what would have happened if you would have listened to everyone else's fears and not made the jump? Well, that, my friend, that's a great unknown. I don't want to get to the end of my life and ask that question.
I don't want to sit there and say, like, oh, man, what would I have done if I'd taken that leap? Just tried that other thing. Maybe you fail, but that's okay.
You know, you can pick yourself up again. It's okay.
For sure. And so sometimes I look around and,, especially when I'm like, you know, talking to a friend who's just like, oh girl, I can't do that because of that.
And it's just like, but why? Like, why don't you believe you can do it? You did that thing and that thing and that thing. And again, it doesn't have to be like the world changing thing that got headlines, but like your everyday accomplishments and did this thing, simply went into that workplace that you feel like demeans you.
And you still had a smile on your face. Like what an accomplishment that is, you know? Or anything that you did.
So it's like, why then do you not feel like you have the power to be able to overcome the things, even if they're unknown to you? Yeah, that's how I feel. What are the three biggest reasons why people fail in a relationship? Why they end up getting divorced, end up getting separated, breaking up? Why do you think the, what are those three things that cause that? All right, so number one, lack of healing.
Lack of healing because lack of healing probably leads them to choosing the wrong person to begin with which is the foundation for disaster because at that point there's not... Everything that I'm about to mention you can't really work it out with this person because you're just not in alignment with them,'s not a good fit and so a lot of people are trying to make things work with someone they just they just can't match up with properly you know.
Is that trauma bonding or what is that how does that play in a part? Some of it is trauma bonding some of it is individual so what's happening is this this phenomena if you want to call it that people are choosing individuals that are quote unquote good enough to be with but they don't really make them feel deeply about them. Because if I'm a man or a woman and I've been hurt before and I've been hurt when I let my heart out completely I fear being that vulnerable.
So, now you don't really ever learn how to not feel deeply about someone if they're just that person, but people learn who I can deal with and not fall deeply for. So, okay, I can be with this person and maintain emotional control, they don't take me there, so I don't ever feel like I'm too vulnerable in this situation.
Do you think a lot of women choose the safe guy as opposed to the right guy? Absolutely and the safe choice is almost always if not always the wrong choice. Oh man, why is a safe choice always the wrong choice for a woman? So, think about it in order for it to be safe it means you are not deeply invested.
You may be invested, it may be deep compared to certain people's perceptions of deep but it's not as deep as you know you can go. It's not as deep into where you feel like you'll be devastated by it.
So, you're starting from a deficit as far as I'm not fully into this, I'm not fully into this guy but again, he may be good enough for me to work with and try to be with. But because you already have a built-in void so what happens is this, she chooses this man, she's not really into him.
Let's say she's not that attracted to him and it's not that he's not a good looking guy, she's just not attracted to him that like that. Well, because you don't have that attraction you're not going to pour into him at the same level that he needs you to.
You won't be as intimate with him, you may not talk to him the way that he wants to be talked to, you're not going to give him the same energy that you would someone you're actually very much attracted to. Well, that void initially he may not catch on to that or let that bother him because if he is indeed a man who is of a lower position than her or lower quality than her he may just be happy to have this woman.
Oh my gosh, I can't believe I have her. So, he's infatuated, he's going in, he's blinded by his desires for her.
But at some point the smoke clears. then he realizes wait a minute okay I have her

but I'm not being treated the way I want to be treated I'm getting walked all over exactly it's all about her yes I don't get the respect that I deserve here and here's what's crazy when that woman dates that man who she's not really into like that and let's just say she she dates down.

Well, she just raised his stock

to every other woman that's watching this. They're looking and they're saying how did he get her? What does he have? He must have something.
He must have something, big pockets. Big something else.
So, power something. Now, these women want to find out.
Do you think women really think that way when they see a guy who maybe is... Hell yeah.
Of you know, hypothetical less quality or seeming less quality than the woman that they're with. That they start to be more attracted to that guy? Yes, and even...
Even if it's not of a lower quality, if as a man you are seen with an attractive woman, a high quality woman, a desirable woman, you become more desirable to other women. I've talked to friends where they've even gone to clubs, they'll go there with a woman and they'll get more attention.
And when that woman walks away, some of these women will try to slide in and slip in a number here and there. Why do women do this? It seems like women don't have ethics or don't have integrity.
As opposed to saying, hey, I appreciate and I'm happy for you too. Why is it that some women want to get in there and try to, quote unquote, steal the man or influence the man to stray.
Well, so it starts with the fact that women have this perception that quality men are, they're not in abundance out here. Yes, they're very scarce.
So, when you come across one or you think you come across one a lot of them have the mentality of oh no I have to try to get my foot in the door and see if I can get this for myself. If they thought it was abundant out there, then there would be less press to do that.
But what happens if a guy, okay, leaves the person he's with for you? Is that woman then going to be confident that he wouldn't do it again? It depends. I think there are some women who convince themselves.
Like, there's plenty of women who have taken a man from a woman or who have accepted that man leaving one woman for her, and to her, she's good. As long as she's getting what she needs, she's good.
But I do think that in the back of their head, once something starts to go wrong, that's when those thoughts start to creep in. I wonder if he's talking to someone else.
Why isn't he giving me the attention anymore? Exactly, and now, and I think it's even more likely that someone who knows about the situation will remind her, well you got him this way, so you might lose them the same. And now the insecurities really start to kick in and it starts to become a huge problem.
You talked about attraction, I'm sorry to get you off track, but you talked about attraction. What do you think is more important, sexual attraction or spiritual attraction for a woman? I'm going to say spiritual attraction.
More than sexual attraction. But I'm saying that with hesitancy.
You're pausing. I'm not 100%.
The only reason why I'm leaning towards spiritual is because I believe that women value intimacy, non-sexual intimacy way more than actual just raw sex, okay. So, if you had door number one, hugs, kisses, caresses, you know, being emotionally available, door number two just straight sex.
Women are choosing... Most women are choosing door number one, most men are choosing door number two.
And so, because of that value for the deeper levels of intimacy, I feel like spiritual attraction kind of fortifies that. Whereas sexual attraction may not get them those things.
So, that's why I would pick spiritual attraction. What would you say for any guy listening or watching, if they wanted to attract the woman of their dreams or essentially any woman that they really desired, if they wanted to attract that, who would they need to become in order to set themselves up to attract an incredible, lifelong, loving partner who gave them a fulfilling, joyful life? I would say they would have to become their most confident, masculine self.
Whatever that looks like. It's going to look different for every guy.
But at the foundation of it, there must be confidence in who he is, and he must exude that masculine energy. Not saying there aren't men who can't get them a loving partner, not being the most masculine dude, but you have a better chance at achieving it when you can walk in your masculine energy.
That's the power of the man. What if there's a man who is extremely masculine but lacks confidence? What type of partner does he attract typically? Well, I think lacking confidence it undermines the masculine energy.
It's hard to be that masculine presence if you are lacking in self-esteem, lacking in self-respect. The things you're going to allow a woman to get away with is going to start to lose...
Cause her to lose attraction for you. So, it's almost like if you become her yes man, a lot of women don't want a yes man.
Most women don't want a yes man. It might sound good to some initially, but over time, she gets tired of the fact that you can't think for yourself, that you aren't giving your own perspective, that you aren't confident enough to stand in your own vision and your plan.
So, that immediately takes you out of your masculine energy because now you're trying to become so accommodating to the point that you've lost yourself in that process. And that doesn't work well in the long term.
I mean, think whenever you hear stories of nice guys being run over and getting played, it usually involves this man

who is just trying to do everything the woman wants

and just putting all his desires aside to make her happy.

That doesn't work.

Not like that it doesn't.

That's kind of like the safe man, right?

Yes.

So, the safe man is not always the right man

is what I think I heard you say, right?

Yeah, almost always. Typically, but doesn't a woman want to feel safe in an environment with their man yes but the safety so the safety that's being achieved by picking the safe choice is I don't have to be too vulnerable in this relationship so I'm able to guard myself from devastating hurt and disappointment that I've probably experienced at least once before at least at a level that I felt like I don't ever want to go there again.
That's very different than the man who she is completely invested in, completely in love with and he understands the need to provide safety and security for her. The need to make the situation or the relationship more stable for her where she can rest in her feminine energy so to speak while she's with him.
That's two different types of safety. So, it's like okay, if you choose a safe man but essentially it sounds like that's a space where you don't have to fully open up and be vulnerable.
It's a space where you probably know you're in control where you're probably have more value to offer or this person is desiring you way more than you desire them. And that's the big one.
It's a situation where she feels like he wants me or he loves me more than I do him and that's where they feel like it is safe but again it doesn't work in the long run never yeah I want to say never I should never say never but I'm going to use that word right now because if someone if you are in a relationship like that and maybe you're not even conscious that you're doing it in the beginning but you realize a year two years in okay you know the person I've chosen really doesn't step into his confidence or his masculine energy he'll do anything I want him to do at all times he stops his dreams for my dreams whatever it is what is typically the women you've worked with how do they what do they say about that what do they feel about that and what is their struggle is it they want to leave it they just feel bad? They don't feel the connection anymore?

What is it that they feel?

Well, so, it's a tricky place because

at that point, it's hard for them

to fully express what's going on.

Like, one of the things I tell women is that

one of the worst positions to be in

is with a man you're not truly in love with.

With a good man, you're not truly in love with.

Oh, why is that the worst position?

Because at that point, if she's feeling empty, she's feeling bored, she's feeling unsatisfied, who can she run to and say this to that won't say but wait a minute, you have a great man, you can't do that, oh, just work... Like, no one's going to say, oh, yeah, you know what, I get it, just walk away.
No, I won't say no one but most people aren't going to allow that to be a good enough reason for her to walk away. So, she knows she's going to get pushed back from people but not just pushed back from people from her own self.
It's like okay, wait a minute, do I leave this great guy who loves me so much which is so safe here even though I'm not really that happy, I'm not fulfilled or maybe I'm not that attracted to him. That's a tough position to be in because it's like it would be so much easier if he cheated on her, it'd be so much easier if he was abusive or something.
Then she can easily validate, oh okay, I got to go. And that's why some women in that situation what they do is try to create turmoil try to find...
Yes, they're trying to find something to give them the exit to say okay I don't have to be here anymore or to make that man want to leave them and in fairness this happens on both sides but I've literally talked to clients who the only reason they cheated hoping it would make their partner leave them. Oh, my gosh.
Because what was happening was in this instance, she was trying to tell the guy over and over, I don't want to be here. But again, he's this good guy, I love you, I don't want to lose you.
I'll do whatever you need, I'll change. And out of guilt and sympathy, she stays with him.
But she's so not happy. So, now she's thinking, okay, he won't leave me even when I tell him I don't want to do this anymore.
Even when I tell him this is not working. So, what can I do? And some will actually cheat on purpose, let the man find out hoping he will finally let go.
And in some cases he still doesn't let go. He gets cheated on and he still wants to work it out with her and she feels trapped and so it just continues like it's just a never-ending cycle until either one of them finally gets tired of it or i don't know just it just it's crazy there's how much stress yeah so what i heard you say for a man to attract the you know a joyful loving partner that they really desire and have someone that they really are inspired by for, you know, a long term.
I'm hearing you say that that man needs to step into their self-esteem, their confidence, and their masculinity. They've got to step into that leadership masculinity quality, right? That essence.
If a woman really wants to attract the right healthy man, someone that is safe in terms of they can trust, but where they have to fully, they have to feel a little vulnerable to really dive in and they really care about this man in a big way, what does a woman need to do in order to attract that ideal partner for themselves? And it's the same answer for the women in reverse. It's walking in their true feminine confident self.
Whoever they really are but being that best version of themselves. And to what you were saying, it can't be find a man who you can be feminine with, it has to be be your feminine self first and you'll be able to attract the man that you can continue to be feminine with or that will honor, respect, and value your feminine energy and protect your feminine energy.
That's what you want but what's happening to so many women is they become detached from their femininity

or they're viewing it in a negative way,

they're viewing it as weakness

as when I'm feminine I get played,

I get taken advantage of.

And so now the mindset is

if I find the right man

I can be that.

So, you hear a lot of women say

well, I am feminine in a relationship.

The problem is he can't see that far in to know that he wants to get in a relationship with you. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.
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We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.
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And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here.
Great.

Hey, everybody.

It's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe.
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Michael J. Fox.
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