I'm Actorbot (with Janelle Monáe & Sarah Edwards)

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Yeah, and it does affect my mood.

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Can you hear me?

No.

Okay, now we can sort of hear you.

Is that still count to 10?

Count to 10.

I don't know how.

Okay.

One, two,

three, four, five, six, seven, seven, eight, nine, eleven.

Is that bad or good?

Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

I'm Adam Scott.

And this is the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam, where we're talking everything severance in terms of influences, things that relate to Severance, and people that have inspired Severance, and people who connect with Severance, and just everything that, you know, is connected to Severance.

Really just something for us to do in between seasons, right, Adam?

That's right.

Also people who hate the show.

We're going to talk to some of those.

Oh yeah.

We should have more people who hate the show on the show.

It's so weird that we didn't start with it.

Let's do it.

Okay.

You don't seem that into that idea though.

Listen, it was my idea.

I love that idea.

But then as I started thinking about someone coming on and just tearing the show apart, it started hurting my feelings.

So I think as we talked about it, I liked it less and less.

This week, though, we're joined by someone who feels the opposite way about our show, 10-time Grammy nominated musician, SAG award-winning actor, and Severance Super fan, Janelle Monet.

Very exciting.

Yes, we're going to be talking with them about what they love about Severance and how sci-fi influences their work as a musician, writer, actor.

You know, when you say multi-hyphenate, like she's a serious multi-hyphenate.

She is an impressive artist.

Yeah, My goodness.

So we're going to talk to her about being a multi-talented person and doing a lot of different things really well and the connections she has with the show and just sort of the nature of duality in a lot of her work, which I think is really interesting too.

Yeah.

And then after that, we're going to bring on our amazing costume designer, Sarah Edwards.

Yes.

We'll talk to her about her work on Severance.

Also, she's going to answer some hotline questions with us.

Yeah.

She is the best.

Totally.

Yeah.

The best.

So we have this musician actor on today.

Do you know how to play?

I don't even know if, do you know how to play guitar or piano or anything?

I play a few chords on the piano, a few chords on the guitar.

E, A, C, G.

Some minor chords I can do on the piano too.

Yeah, and minor chords on the guitar.

I know chords.

Okay.

Basically.

So that's a yes.

No, it's not.

It's basically I can play some chords.

I do play the drums kind of decently.

And so that's what I'm doing.

Oh, you're a good drummer.

I'm a pretty drummer.

I'm an okay drummer.

Forget it.

I'm an okay drummer.

Forget it.

You're a good.

No, you're a really good drummer.

But why are you asking?

What's your musical aptitude for things?

Nothing.

I can't do anything.

And it bums me.

Like, I really wish I could sing.

I wish I could play guitar.

I wish I could play drums, to be honest with you.

I can teach you.

I could teach you like a little 4-4 beat.

That would be great.

Yeah.

That would be great.

I feel like the bass drum, the bass drum is where it gets really confusing.

Bass drum on one and three.

Snare drum on two and four for your basic 4-4 thing.

Or like in a waltz, it'd be like 1-2-3, 1-2-3.

The bass drum would be on the 1.

Right.

Yeah.

And you could do paradiddles and double paradiddles and five-stroke rolls and all sorts of fun rudiments.

I'm feeling like I don't even need a lesson now.

I feel like I'm already there.

Yeah.

I am really not a musician.

I am a

person who loves music, loves to listen to music.

And I grew up trying to play the violin for a while and then piano lessons and then drum lessons, which were really probably the ones I did the most.

And I still have, you know, I still do play every once once in a while, which is really fun.

I have a high school band.

We still play together every once in a while or a punk band, yeah?

Well, sort of, yeah, like kind of like a post-punk kind of, you know, Brian Eno-inspired, you know, mid-80s something.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

And how are you doing?

How was your weekend?

It was good.

You know what?

I got a power washer over the weekend and hooked it up, kicked it into gear, and spent three full days power washing concrete pathways in front of my house.

Have you ever done this?

I was going to say, what is a power washer?

Okay.

And then I realized midway through, it's like, oh, no, that's like the thing that you use to wash concrete in your driveway?

Yeah.

Well, you hook a hose up to it, then you plug it in, and it just shoots water out at such a tremendous speed that it digs dirt and grime out of any surface.

Right.

And it's so satisfying.

I stood out in the sun for

eight hours a day for three days, just power washing.

Were there drugs involved?

What do you want?

You know what?

It sounds like I discovered power washing and crystal mac at the same time.

That's what it sounds like.

It's like, I washed.

It is all.

Everything is clean.

No, that does sound really satisfying and really fun.

Yeah.

You know, there's an interesting parallel there, though, of Mrs.

Selvig de-icing her steps with a blow dryer.

That's right.

In

what is it, episode two, season one?

Season one, yeah.

I think, right?

And she's like, kind of like checking you out while she's de-icing her stoop.

And I feel like, I don't know, and you're power washing your stoop.

I don't know.

Just trying to find ways to tie the banter into Severance.

And I was definitely keeping an eye on my neighbors while I was doing it.

And I'm sure they were keeping an eye on you, too.

They certainly were.

Yeah.

They're like, that's the guy from Severance power washing his trying.

What is he doing?

And why is it taking so long this is in the uh celebrities they're just like us section that's right that's right um okay so should we see if uh janelle's in here maybe she'll want to hear about some of this yeah yeah yeah

hello hey janelle hi guys how you doing i'm fantastically well thank you for joining us yeah and being so connected to the show because i've felt that for a while hearing how you were appreciating it.

And you're so talented and do so many different things.

There's so many things that we're excited to talk to you about.

But I would say one thing, like we were just talking about instruments and playing stuff.

And I am an amateur musician.

Adam doesn't play anything.

And I see you have your setup there.

I see a guitar, a piano.

Right?

Yes.

You are in my studio.

This is Wonderland.

Yeah.

Let me see if I can show you guys.

It's my piano.

I'm more of a guitar girl than I am a pianist.

And then this is the one.

Wow.

Whoa, all those guitars.

Guitars.

And then there's some percussion stuff on this side.

Oh, that's so cute.

Kind of see.

And do you actually record in there?

I do.

Probably my last two albums I recorded here.

Like there's a couch back here.

So like I'll cut vocals laying down on the couch.

Oh, that's so cool.

I like it to feel super just easy and not like, okay,

everything, get everything together and go into this booth.

And some things I'll cut in a booth, like if I'm doing orchestra stuff and I just want to have, you know, the experience of that.

But for the most part, like all my rough vocals and anything that we're, we have, it's fully full of musicians.

Everybody's packed in here.

It's sweaty.

It's like, I feel like that's where the magic happens with the sweat.

How fun.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

You know, it's so funny.

I was just watching some clip I saw yesterday of Billy Preston in the 70s doing nothing from nothing, that song.

And it's like,

and I think it was a live recording and they were all like in this super small studio just jamming together.

And it was like that feeling of just like, and the music is so good.

Yeah.

I mean, first of all, what you have created in your career is very unique because you kind of do a lot of different things, but it's always had a theme to it.

You've really kind of created from the beginning characters and a persona for who you are as an actor, as a musician, as a storyteller.

That to me is fascinating that you had that vision so early on.

I'm sort of curious about just how that started for you and how you were able to do that at a young age.

Yeah, I mean, I used to say I'm a storyteller, but I think I'm more confident because I've done multiple albums.

I've been in films.

I've been very fortunate to do all of this.

And I've been doing it since,

shoot, since middle school.

You know, I was writing short stories in Kansas City at the Coterie Theaters Young Playwrights Roundtable, where they took like four inner city kids and we would just write short stories.

And if they were great enough, the local actors would perform them.

So

I loved storytelling.

You know, I did something about photosynthesis, plants, talking to aliens and coming to get me and my cousins from my grandmother's house.

Like these were just things that were in my mind growing up.

And I knew that I wanted to be a world builder.

I wanted to build worlds.

And I knew that I had so much storytelling and world building I wanted to do.

And Ziggy Stardust changed it all for me.

When I found out that you can create the album, create whatever this character that lives in you is, and you can take that character on the road and you can do that on tour, and you can become that.

And once I knew that I could do it that way, I got into science fiction so heavy.

I started reading Isaac Asmov.

I started getting into Philip K.

Dick and I saw Metropolis.

And that story spoke to me: the haves and the have-nots and androids and you know, futurism, Octavia Butler, Afrofuturism, seeing seeing marginalized folks, black and brown people thriving in the future.

And I got an opportunity to explore that through my eyes and my experiences of growing up to working class parents.

And so I think I just, I don't know, I've always been an imagineer, you know, just trying to engineer my imagination to move in the way that feels good.

to me and the worlds that I want to see and talking about the worlds that I don't want to see and how that intersection can really be between having something to say and representing representing a group of people and representing your imagination, how you can change hearts and transform people's minds through storytelling and world building.

So I think I just like stuck with it, you know, because I wanted to see it.

Yeah.

Is that what appeals to you about science fiction is that you can talk about things in your life in a way that, like your character, Cindy Mayweather, that you play through your first three albums.

Is that science fiction as a way to tell a story in sort of an indirect way.

Yeah, you said it.

You know, it's kind of like people will say the pill and the applesauce.

You know, when we, when we sort of recontextualize it and we, you know, make sort of the parallels between marginalized folks today and now they're cyborgs or they're Androids, like people are like, oh, now I get it.

We shouldn't repeat the past.

We should protect the future because, yeah, that's just like, you know, these people who are living right now that were, these bullies are trampling on.

Like, how do we fight the bully?

It's that same story.

And I think science fiction has given me an opportunity to open people's minds up to what kind of future we can build and how we can use maybe the heaviness of today.

We can filter that through something that feels like more solution oriented and more like.

we're gathering around a movie or an idea or some music.

And let's get in the room and let's really talk through how we can shape the kind of future that we want.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's, I never ever thought like that.

That's really smart.

I think that was

so much cooler than how we think about the show.

I just want to say one thing.

Like, I am.

beyond like you guys, you two together and individually, I've been watching and you are world builders too.

So, Ben, I just, you are a goat.

Period.

You are, you are one of, and it's just amazing.

When I saw that you were attached to Severance, I was like, of course, like he builds worlds and characters and, you know, collaborating with someone like you, Adam, who I've told in person, I've gotten an opportunity to see you and tell you how much I love your work and how the specificity of just what you do.

You're such an outlier.

Both of you guys are outliers.

And this world that you built, honestly, I think when I saw one of the producers, I was like, I should be on this show.

I know this world.

Have you listened to my album My concept.

I did a movie called Dirty Computer.

Yeah, Dirty Computer.

Yeah, it was all about memory.

It has so much crossover with Severance.

You're hitting all these themes like memory and self and freedom and suppression and conformity.

Is that what brought you to Severance?

Is the sci-fi angle?

I mean, I check out anything y'all do.

So whenever it's like, okay, Ben, Adam, okay, this new show.

And then once I knew the plot, I was like, oh my God,

this is it.

And I think with Dirty Dirty Computer, which that came to me in a dream and like, wow, whoo,

2016, 2015, you know, that I had gotten abducted by these officers in this totalitarian society.

I just wanted to go see a movie.

And the ushers were like, you need to leave.

They're taking people.

And I was like, shut up.

Give me my Twizzlers.

Give me my popcorn.

I want to sit down and watch this movie.

And as soon as I tried to sit down, I was taken and all of my memories were taken.

And I found myself in this facility where they were draining our memories and they were reprogramming us to be and do and feel and look like the world that they wanted.

And it's a little different than severance because you guys kind of signed that dotted line to sort of be in the program, but we didn't.

We were taken against our will.

And yeah, so when I heard about the concept and everything, I was just on pins and needles because I'm a writer too.

So I'm looking at how you guys are, how are they going to wrap this up?

Or, okay, what is season two really going to focus on?

And the duality was just so fresh.

You know, we've seen memory movies like we've seen Memento and we've seen sort of the born trilogy.

And I also did Homecoming 2, which was dealing with these berries that these folks would take and they would use for PTSD and helping people not remember sort of the pain that was inflicted on them.

And then they started to abuse the berries and getting rid of people's memories.

But what I love most about this show is the freshness and the, the, I don't know, the humor in the language.

It's the language all its own.

You know, it it like it recalls different things that I love about sci-fi, just like reimagined in such a fresh way that all of us are just fans of.

You know, I'm in the Severns cult.

Well, when you came up to us at the Critics' Choice Awards and sat down at our table, it was a big group of us actors.

It was such a huge moment for us.

It was so kind of you because we were a brand new show and didn't know if anyone had seen it.

And the fact that you were a fan just meant the world.

So thank you for saying all that.

It's really nice.

Yeah, I meant that.

I am interested in that you said duality because I do think that's a big part of the severance idea too.

And just the questions of our nature and sort of different sides of ourselves for a long time, just even stylistically, when you were performing, when you were starting out, like your look.

Can you talk about a little bit?

Because that feels like that was connected to that too, this idea of different personas or duality.

Yeah,

I have a lyric in a song.

It says, I'm looking at a thousand versions of myself and we're all fine as fuck.

And so I think as somebody who, you know, it's like people ask me all the time, like, how do you develop or come up with these personas?

And it's like, they haunt me.

They haunt us.

Like they're just, when it keeps coming back and forth and back and forth in like the corners of my mind that this is a world that needs to happen and this is the protagonist this is the main character energy that needs to be unlocked like we need to see this and it's when i just have to surrender to it and i think early on in my career i knew i really did know that like i didn't want to just be an actor i didn't just want to be a musician like i mentioned before i wanted to build worlds you know when you think of george lucas when you think of steven spielberg when you think of octavia butler and all these folks you're like, that is what I crave in my down moments, in my alone moments.

That's what I want.

And I think that I wanted people to get that early on.

I wanted them to say, hey, she has more ideas.

You know, she has more thoughts about what an artist can look like and feel like and be.

And I'm also non-binary.

And so for me, I'm like that throughout my work and my music.

And it showed up there first.

It was like, genre.

What are we talking about?

Genre.

Is the shit good or is it bad?

Like, what, what are we talking about?

You know, so I started off early.

I was just like, I have to train people to,

even if they don't like it, which is totally fine or it's not on their frequency.

I need to have the space to grow.

I need to have the space to be looked at as the actor who's going to do the movie soundtrack as well, who's going to star in it, who's going to help write it and who's going to produce it.

I need you guys to know that I want to contribute to art and I want to contribute to humanity in this way.

Wow.

So cool.

I mean, to have that vision at a young age, were there people that you were influenced by or you saw doing that?

I mean, Bowie, I definitely saw that.

Yeah.

Like looking at Dirty Computer, creating a character, Ziggy Stardust, and doing a concept album, which really doesn't seem to happen that much these days.

But so as a kid, is that who you were watching and listening to or that made you think, oh, I can do this or I want to be that?

Yeah.

You know, in addition to that, Prince.

Prince was a really big inspiration.

And I had the opportunity and the honor of being very close to him for many years.

He was one of the first artists to reach out to me before my first album came out.

In fact, I don't tell a lot of people this, but I, this is when I was selling CDs out of my trunk.

And so my first album came out on CD.

We don't really do CDs like that anymore, but I ripped a CD and I put like on a piece of paper all the track listing and I signed it.

And he was one of the first people to get the Arc Android, my first album.

I gave it to him first.

Wow.

Because prior to that, he affirmed a lot of things for me.

You know, when you get into the industry, and I'm sure you guys know a lot about trying to figure out which way to go when you, when you have been very fortunate to, you know, be able to go different ways if you wanted to, right?

And I think I was just trying to figure out because there was a lot of pressure.

Folks were like, oh, you should do this or you should dress like this and you can do that.

And I knew in my heart, like what I wanted to be known for and what I wanted to do.

And Prince was the right artist at the right time to talk to me and talk to our arts collective Wonderland that we started.

And we admired so much of what he did with Paisley Park.

And I mean, he had the movie, he had Purple Rain, right?

With the music and the character and the persona he presented and Graffiti Bridge and Under the Cherry Moon.

Like he had done so much world building himself.

I was like, when he talks, I need to listen.

And so he just sort of talked to me, answered all my questions and told me like all the stuff that he really admired and and respected about me and what i was doing and i just felt like man okay i'm on the right track if if friends is looking which i'm like how do you even know about me you're supposed to be on some other planet somewhere you know doing your thing but having him push away his mystery and give me his mentorship was a really key ingredient for me to press on.

So you got to, did you guys collaborate in the studio together?

We did.

Wow.

So if you listen to my second album, Electric Lady, we have a song called Giving Them What They Love.

And so what was that like watching him work in the studio?

Man, he was such a night owl.

Like he didn't sleep much.

The first time we hung out,

I remember me coming over, like me, my band, everybody.

We came over at 11 p.m.

We didn't leave till like 7 a.m.

And he stayed there and jammed.

And in terms of the studio, People don't believe me when I say this, but he literally looked to me for what I wanted him to do on the project.

He was like, what do you, what do you want me to do?

Like, and it was tough because I'm like, how do I tell Prince what I want him to do?

But he was like, hey, what do you want?

Like, send me the song.

And he laid some guitar parts down.

Some of it he was by himself doing.

And then we got together and closed it out.

But for the most part, he was looking.

to me and i think he was trying to teach me how to not be afraid

to talk to a legend i guess that's what i'm thinking because it was intimidating but then when I was like, oh, okay, he's a student.

He's a student.

I have to always remain a student.

He still wanted to learn how I saw him and how I saw, like, how I filtered back what he represented to me.

So he was just easy.

He didn't even charge me to be on the album.

Oh, my God.

I mean, amazing.

I could just imagine when someone like that who is a genius and obviously is reaching out to you saying like, hey, I think you're worth connecting with and you have this talent.

I can only imagine that, you know, how that affects you.

I know we've all had people like that.

I haven't had anybody like Prince ever, but other people who I really admired who said, Yeah, I think that's good.

You should, you know, like it opened up and sort of, like you said, made you a part of the process.

And a lot of people don't get to see that side of what the actual creative process is with somebody like that.

And I can only imagine that must have been really affecting for you.

Yeah, it was very affecting.

And it just let me know that no matter how big you become and, you know, just remain a student, remain coachable, you know, remain, yeah, remain a student.

Yeah.

Okay, let's take a quick break and Adam and I will be back with more from Janelle Monet right after this.

Adam, if our partner ZipRecruiter was helping Lumen Hire for various roles,

what kind of keywords would they use?

Ooh, can withstand fluorescent lighting.

That's That's good.

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Perfect.

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I mean, that sounds great.

I'm telling you, see for yourself, when you try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/slash severance, something incredible happens.

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The first day?

Yeah.

The first day.

Yeah, I know.

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Just go to ziprecruiter.com/slash severance right now to try it for free.

That's ziprecruiter.com/slash S-E-V-E-R-A-N-C-E.

Oh, that's how you spell severance.

Yeah, I've been telling you for five years now.

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I mean, for you guys, I mean, shoot, you've been doing this for however long, but does it always feel like you're coming back to the whiteboard, everything that you knew that you try and do?

And what is sort of your process?

Like when you have an idea and you're like, okay, I read this book or I've heard this short story.

How do you, how are you really, who are you calling in your like committee of like, okay, is this good?

Am I tripping?

Is this a great story?

Is this a hit?

How does that process go?

That's a good question.

I will say that getting to work with someone and really see how they work and see, like you were saying, working with Prince and seeing the sort of mystery of it sort of unveiled and seeing a real person there working and the kind of generosity of that person sort of inviting you in and showing you the ropes a bit.

That really truly has been part of the process of severance with Ben too, as being a part of this big thing.

And we worked together on Walter Midi like 13 years ago.

And I remember then watching Ben direct and star in this movie.

And I'd never actually seen someone do that in the amount of work and focus it takes to do something like that, especially something on that scale, and learned so much then.

But then this process has been that sort of multiplied because we've been working so closely together.

So I know exactly what you mean by just sort of being let in on something really special.

What I'm saying is, Ben is my prince.

I'm sorry for you, Adam.

Yeah.

I'm so sorry for you.

I mean, I can believe you.

I believe you.

But yeah, I mean, as far as like trying to like find stories and stuff, my wife and I work together.

And so she's a great barometer for if I read an article or if she reads an article, we're great for each other to kind of bounce something off.

Like you were saying, like, is this actually good?

Is this worth our time?

Or is this, is this just me thinking it's cool?

Or is this something that that could actually have some roots and some lasting power to it?

Yeah.

How about you, Ben?

I don't know.

I mean, I still feel like I'm constantly trying to figure it out.

You know, it's just funny.

You get to a certain age and you go, wait a minute, I'm this age, but I'm still feeling like I am like starting out because the idea that you are a creator and you're also an actor and you do different things.

I know can be also challenging sometimes for the outside world to figure out how to process that, right?

Because they want to see you in a certain way.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And that's like a whole other thing to talk about, which I'm curious because I feel like by you having such a clear idea of your persona at a young age and having that

understanding, like I want to be known as this and have all these possibilities open to me, that's an amazing foresight to have as a young person.

But, you know, really the creative process for me, being also someone who I sometimes will get a project as a script that's sent to me or as an actor or have an idea that I'm trying to figure out on my own or with a friend to write.

And, you know, that process is, I think, I've heard you talk about in interviews, like when you take a role that you have to really feel it.

Like you have to really feel it deep down.

I think ultimately it's connecting with that feeling inside of you.

You're saying like, you know, the feeling of goosebumps when you think about something or something gets you excited, like physically excited in some way.

Like, oh, yeah, like that to me is such an important feeling to be in touch with.

It took me a while to, I think, really figure out that like the stuff that I really, really want to make is stuff that I really want to see, that I want to experience.

And I think it took me a while to get to that and to go, oh, no, I should just do this only if it's something that I like really want to have exist.

And that's really has to be the impetus, I think.

Something your desire.

Yeah, the passion.

Yeah.

And because you know how hard it is to get these things.

I mean, I can only imagine like making dirty computer.

Like that's so much going on in that.

I mean, how, you know, and it's a vision that's in your head that you're trying to, you have to communicate to, you know, hundreds of people.

Everybody.

Yeah.

I mean, I think this is this.

So this is so great because it brings me into another question I wanted to ask you guys because I'm dealing with this now.

You know, these, we have these ideas, and we're like, oh my gosh, this is a movie.

You know, this is, I see it.

I see it in my head.

And it's like, I wish that I had a pipe or a tube to just insert into my brain and just like pour out everything into a cup and people can just drink that.

And then, oh, we understand what you're saying.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is how we can make this happen.

But it doesn't happen that way.

It's like that's severance season three.

Yeah.

So please.

Come on now.

Like, I'm craving that so hard because it's like the inception of an idea and getting it out.

But in that between time, between the inception of it and getting it to folks, it's like, I can't write fast enough.

You know, it's like, oh my God, we need to do this now.

Everything is like a really big creative impulse, but realizing it in terms of structures and teams, if you were to tell yourself, because you guys are multi-hyphen in it as well, like you're producing, you're acting, you're starring in, you're doing so many of the things that i've i love i'm so like man you're you're doing it and i want to be doing that but structurally i'm like do we have the bandwidth or what do i need to i'm like i need to put a system in place to get these things out so that I'm not just the singer over here.

I'm not just acting over here.

I'm not just producing back here.

But like, how do we make everything

work as one galaxy?

Yeah.

And very few people do that, are able to do that.

And it's a very, you know, unique thing.

I mean, how does your creative process change when you're acting in something?

Like, say you're working on homecoming or something.

How do you take all the stuff that's going on in terms of your other ideas and how do you approach that when you're just working as an actor?

Yeah, you have to leave some things to the side.

You know, like for instance, when I did Homecoming, but really when I did Glass Onion, I had to lock in because I was also playing two folks.

I was playing twins and they had to have one, had to have a different accent.

And then I had to play not only like each of those two characters, but I had to play a character that was pretending to be the other character, which is the third character.

And then it was the character, you know, after they had sort of come into

being who they were going to be.

Like they came from the country girl to like this hero.

And so, you know, Ryan Johnson and I talk all the time about like, I really did have to be four different versions.

And it was good that he wrote it and was the director because he was able to help me stay on pace and just to stay in the pocket with who was talking at whatever time.

But I have to, some things I have to let go.

I have to say, okay,

glass onion, all-star cast, let's lock in, you know?

And when I, I need to fully surrender to this and for these three months and I'll pick back up.

on the album then.

And sometimes it hurts.

It's like, man.

But I have to think big picture.

And if I know that I want to star in things and work on the music and, you know, I want to, I want to do those things, I need to, I need to do the work.

And people have to see me doing the work.

And sometimes the work pans out, you know, you have a good edit.

You're like, yay, Ryan made me look great here.

But it takes a lot of work and precision.

Are you able to let go of the control aspect?

I mean, Ryan, great director.

So, of course, you're going to work with somebody who's great.

But yeah, are you able to just let go of it?

I am.

I learn actually by looking at the screen though.

I don't know.

Do y'all, do y'all learn like that?

Watching yourself, you mean?

Yeah, I can watch myself back and I have no ego there.

I'm like, oh,

because I can see like, oh, I just need to be more still here.

Like I'm, I'm moving a little bit too much.

But if I just quietly say this, it actually is more powerful.

So if I see that, and I think it's because of me having choreography and videos and doing things, if I see that I'm moving around too much and I'm being, it's not locked in and it's not settled, I can just look at my body language and I can just be like, okay, that's what I need to do.

How about you guys?

Can you let go?

Well, I'm just, I'm curious, kind of like what Ben was asking, if you're able to let go, is it kind of nice sometimes to let go and not have to worry about the music and the big concept and everything and just focus?

Because you're such a great actor.

You're also in hidden figures and moonlight and you're so good.

So is it nice to be able to just focus on one thing sometimes?

When I'm there, yeah, of course.

Like, it's great.

But it's great when you trust the team, when you trust the director, right?

You know, when you, when you're like, okay, we have a similar taste.

He's not going to let me fail.

Like, I, I know he knows like when I'm locked in and when I'm not, or she knows, or they know.

So, that's when I can really relax.

I think my moments of not relaxing is really not truly trusting.

And I've had experiences, you know, in different, different ways where I'm like, I don't trust that you're going to take care of me right now.

Like, I really need to, I need to see what's going on.

But like you said, a lot of acting is about trusting.

And it's just always great to have somebody that you really can like mean it when you say, I trust you, really mean it.

I think that's the whole thing I've learned more and more is trusting the director and having that.

You need to trust each other too.

They need to be able to trust you as well.

Yeah, I can't, I don't like to watch myself, but I appreciate what you're saying because you're right.

That is how you learn.

But I'm always, it's always like very tough for me to, and especially, you know, when I was directing and acting a lot, then I was kind of forced to, and it was very frustrating to me because I'd get so sort of like, oh, like, I wish, you know, I was better.

I wish this actor was better that I'm at editing.

I'm like stuck editing myself, which is why now I get to edit Adam.

It's much more enjoyable to me.

Were you doing that on MIDI?

Were you like watching playback of yourself?

Or did you have someone?

Yeah, you have to watch playbacks.

You have to watch for different technical things and things things like that.

And then I had my producing partner, Stuart Kornfeld, who I trusted a lot, who he would watch takes and kind of I'd go like, what'd you think?

And, you know, but it's really hard.

And I think to have that ability in a kind way to yourself, the way you were saying, Janelle, where you could like look and go, hey, I should just do this or if I just laid back here more.

That's, that's the best, most healthy way, you know?

No, no.

And I, and I think it's also like, it's important to be able to do that.

But it's just interesting to me, though, just it seems to me like in the nature, even in Glass Onion, this like duality thing right that kind of comes through a lot in your work and the idea that like you're interested in doing homecoming which i thought was a great show both seasons at sam s and sam esmel created and you know and deals with a lot of similar issues and stylistically i sam just as a filmmaker you know had this like great sort of like interesting paranoid you know 70s thriller vibe to it also yeah i i think like if you're taking work as an actor that you're not creating the part or writing it, but you're responding to something that, you know, inside of you that, you know, resonates.

Sometimes you don't even, for me, sometimes I don't even know what it is.

I just know that something, I like this.

I'm interested in this.

But I do think that it seems like you're thematically like you're going to be attracted to certain things or certain questions of the nature of

being a person, maybe.

Yeah.

I just like interesting things.

Like I loved Mr.

Robot.

when Samus Mill took that out and I just loved his work.

And when I read the script, I was like, oh, this is cool.

The concept was of playing these, this person whose memory was lost and like trying to uncover my footsteps and this kind of psychological thriller.

And it also had, I love Hitchcock.

So it had this Hitchcocky and I knew they were going to film it in that way too.

And the slow zoom-ins.

And I was like, oh, okay, this is cool.

The music, have you guys listened to the music for that?

Yeah, it's really wild.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

It's so good.

The soundtrack by Emil Mossari, it's really, really wonderful.

Like, I think that it did not get the love that it needed.

But yeah, you just kind of, when I'm looking to grow, I'm like, okay, this is going to grow me.

You know, like, I need to, I know that I'm going to, it's not something I can just do in my sleep.

Sometimes we know, like, oh, okay, I can play that.

I can, I can do that.

Like, I can just learn the lines.

And, but there are some roles where it's like, oh,

I'm going to have to really shed and be naked again, you know, in front of folks.

And I love that.

Let me ask you this.

When did you know Severance was, what did you read?

And then what made you say, like, okay

this show

is gonna be we're gonna do sci-fi but we're gonna do this differently like what what made what conversations happened to shape it in the way that it is now or did it just come like that yeah no i mean when i it was a script that literally was handed to me so i dan erickson it comes out of his genius mind and he

yeah and he was at the time an a writer who had not been produced before and you know he was um i think he was working working for door dash at the time that i met him

yeah i was off his depot that's where i used to work oh fun

yeah great i got fired i was i was on the um using the display computers to send back emails to some of my fans who saw me performing on the library steps in atlanta georgia and they fired you for that they saw it on the camera they were like Janelle to the back.

And I was like, oh my God.

They knew what I wanted to do, though.

So they just

Yeah, that's go ahead and do that.

That's what you want to do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So basically, it was something for me when I read it.

I wasn't like particularly dying to do sci-fi.

And I appreciate sci-fi.

I love Star Trek.

That show for me was like a big one.

And I, you know, like Star Wars.

And I read, I did read like some Isaac Asimov when I was a kid and like Kurt Vonnegut and stuff like that.

But I wasn't like thinking, okay, I got to do a sci-fi project.

It was, it was really the nature of the tone of the show and the the idea that it actually had these sort of like very familiar elements of the, you know, the workplace comedy.

And then it had this weird sort of like, almost like Twilight Zone kind of vibe of like what's going on.

And, you know, like shows over the last few years, obviously Black Mirror is an amazing show that really, I think, kind of like.

got everybody excited about that kind of tone again.

And I was a fan of that show too.

And reading the script, I was like, oh, this feels just something is fresh and I identify with it.

And I want to see what it is, and I want to.

And the world building a possibility was exciting to me and also a little bit daunting, honestly.

You know, the idea of really having to think out, like, okay, what are the rules of this whole world and how far do we go with that?

And the process, it sort of evolved over the course of a couple of years of developing it.

But from the beginning, it was just that first feeling of like, yes, I think this is really cool.

I want to see this.

And that's what I, yeah.

That was really it for me, too.

Exactly what we were talking about earlier, which was this is 100% exactly the show I would want to watch and exactly the thing I've always wanted to do since I was a kid watching Twilight Zone.

I know you're a Twilight Zone fan too, Janelle.

I am.

Yes.

I used to watch it with my grandmother all the time.

It was just the best.

Adam, how did you prepare?

Look at me.

I'm interviewing you guys.

I like that.

That's what we like.

How did you get the nuances between your any and your howdy?

Are you ever going to reveal that, Adam?

Some of the little secrets?

I know one secret, but maybe

you don't want want to talk about it.

I don't know.

No, go ahead.

The back, the back support thing.

Oh, yeah.

Have we never?

I don't think so.

Yeah, sure.

Posture?

I got a...

Early in season one, I decided the innie was going to be anything that I like about myself, and the Audi was going to be everything I hate about myself.

And one thing I hate about myself is my bad posture.

And so for the innie, I got this back brace on Amazon that you can just put under your clothes and it makes you stand up straight.

And so I would wear that around.

And I think you're the only one that noticed it then.

I bought one after I saw you wearing it.

Did you really?

And I lasted about two minutes with it.

And it was so painful because

my posture is so bad that I was like, even that thing can't fix it.

So, but you were wearing that.

I remember.

And, you know, look, you don't have to talk about all this stuff because as an actor, we all do things.

We don't, you know, it's your secret, right?

You don't have to talk about it.

But Adam, I feel like you put so much specific specific thought that we never discussed personally when we were starting out into the creation of both sides of Mark.

Yeah, I think that as you're doing it thing with the TV show, is if you just kind of remain open to like day one of shooting, you don't have to close the book on figuring anything out.

You're also, you know, get your work done.

But also.

What I like to do and what I found I like to do and learned way late in my career is just staying as open as possible to learning and evolving the character as you go too, and learning kind of on the job.

And then when you're with the other actors, that's when you learn a bunch too.

Be a student, which is

exactly what you said earlier.

I have a question.

Janelle, with all the things that you're interested in and your projects, I'm curious, like, you know, kind of what you're working on now in terms of that next thing and is directing something.

I mean, mean, sounds like a natural thing for you to do.

Are you going to do that?

Yes.

Yeah, it is.

And I'm going to come and find you, and I'm going to shadow you.

To learn what not to do.

You're living my dream.

To learn what not to do.

Watching a director on a set, right?

I'm sure you know, like watching a director is just like, just watch the stress, watch the tension.

Right.

Yeah.

And you know, everybody has their own swag, you know, how they do it.

Like Ryan is super calm.

I was like, you have a cast of like eight people.

Everybody's, you know, big.

I'm one of the newest, you know, folks, but you have all these personalities.

And like, you were so chill right now.

But, you know, he got what he wanted from us.

And it was like a quiet power, you know, and I've been on set where other folks are a little bit more like high strong, but everybody has a style.

And I'm just, I'm going to pull together all the things that I like.

about everybody and just like try to use that.

But you're, you are right to ask that, Ben.

I, I really do want to direct and i know though that that is going to take again lock-in focus and i need to find the thing i'm writing the thing right now it's a psychological thriller uh one of my favorite movies is the prestige

so it has a twist to it but i have not cracked the third act Like I know how I want it to end, but it's like that little meet in between.

Like I know how I want it to start and end, but I'm like, how do we get to the end?

So I'm trying my best to finish that.

And it has some bit of body horror, body gore

in it.

Cause I don't know if you've seen my Halloween looks, but I have a lot of them.

I was looking up when we leave, but

I want to be able to transform.

I mean, your looks are incredible.

What you do visually just with yourself is incredible.

I mean, the layers of things you're doing are just so impressive, honestly.

Crazy are crazy.

Yeah, crazy.

And it's all coming from you.

So that's why, to me, honestly, directing a movie is not like any higher level of difficulty than anything you've done before.

You know what I mean?

Because it's all about the same thing.

It's all about vision and an idea and seeing something that you want to, you know, make happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I appreciate that.

I'll come and find you guys.

You're amazing.

Yes.

You, it's really, it's really great to talk to you.

I feel like we could talk a lot more because I'm so, I mean, I'm just even, you know, I'm curious about just your progression from coming from where you grew up to doing this.

Like just to have that vision, right?

Yeah.

Is amazing.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I was just telling one of your producers, I was telling them I went to my family reunion.

I'm from Kansas City and I went to my family reunion.

I have 49 first cousins.

Wow.

49.

Yeah.

And so this year was our year to plan the family reunion.

So I was like, all went well.

My two uncles did not get into a fight.

Oh, good.

Nobody got drunk.

You know, like,

you know.

Wait, there's two uncles, but 49 first cousins.

Well, there's two uncles.

My grandmother had 12 kids.

Okay.

Okay.

And so I have two uncles and I have 10 aunts.

10 aunts.

Some of them have passed on.

Right.

But I have one aunt who had 13 children, she and her husband together.

And then I have another.

See, they did, they don't do them like, they don't do it like that anymore.

I'm like, I have, I go back with no kids.

I'm shaming the family.

And then I have an uncle who has like 14.

Some we just discovered.

They just just came like, hey, I'm your cousin.

I'm like, yep, you have the nose, you have the forehead.

They're like, come to the party.

Yeah.

But listen, I think growing up in a family like that with so many personalities, you just get a lot of different material that you just save until you can use it.

So.

Wow.

Amazing.

Well, thanks so much for joining us.

Yeah.

Thank you, Janelle.

Oh, man.

Thank you, guys.

This is such an honor.

And I cannot wait for season three.

All right.

I like that.

Thanks.

Cheers, my friends.

Thank you, Janelle.

Okay, we're going to take a break.

And when we come back, we'll be joined by Severance's amazing costume designer, Sarah Edwards.

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Hey, Sarah.

Hi, Adam.

So good to see you, Sarah.

So good to see you too, both of you.

Yeah, this is exciting.

We're joined by one of the original creators of the show, Severance, I'd say.

I think, right?

We have a creative team that I feel like everybody contributed so much in formulating what the show was in terms of the sets and costumes and look and all of it.

And Sarah Edwards is our costume designer and really, I think, very responsible for the look of the show in a lot of ways.

Thank you, Ben.

I'm so happy to be here and talk to you guys about the show.

This is your first podcast?

It's my first podcast interview.

All right.

Well,

I wish I could give you some advice.

I don't know.

We tend to, I don't know, really put our guests through the ringer, particularly first-time interviewers.

If you say anything controversial, it will be probably what we clip out and put on the internet to get people to, you know, so we can get, what do they call it, clickbait.

Clickbait.

Yeah, clickbait.

Yeah, we're all about clickbait.

This is making me feel great.

Yeah, so we want to know, like,

how difficult are the actors in their fittings?

Okay.

Come on.

How much of an angel am I?

Who's the most difficult?

Costumes.

There's so much to talk about, but if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Yes, that's right.

First of all, Sarah and I have known each other for many years.

Do you remember when we first met?

I do.

It was Tower Heist.

Yes, we did a film called Tower Heist, and this was back in like 2010, probably something.

2010.

Yeah.

And then you did Walter Mitty soon after that.

Yes, I did.

And that's where I met you, Adam.

Yep.

That's where I met you.

Wow.

With the rough horror three-piece suit.

Yes, but do you remember

when I first met you at our first fitting on that?

I don't know.

We were trying to get these fantasy sequences.

And this is something that Ben, I think, was cut out of the movie The Jester.

Yes.

Oh, right.

That was one of those.

Yeah, Walter Midi fantasy where he's always imagining stuff in the movie.

And we had these like flashes to these.

Yeah.

And I think Adam came in and I was like, here's a jester costume.

Yeah.

And you were like,

who are you?

And what is this costume?

But did we film that though?

We did.

I think we filmed that.

I don't know.

I think we filmed it, but it was.

We did.

That's right.

We did.

Because there was also another one that we did in the office with like an 19th century, sort of like I was a butler kind of thing, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

With Kristen.

With Kristen.

It was 18th century.

Yes.

Yeah.

18th century.

Excuse me.

Well, see, this is it.

You're so specific.

Being a costume designer, tell me, like, what is it that you have to know going into a project?

Because you have to do a lot of research.

And we'll get to severance and how you created this look.

But on other projects over the years, how do you do it?

How do you approach the work?

Well, all of that is true.

It's all, you know, every single project is new research.

For every project, I'm researching something completely different most of the time.

So I'm never bored.

It's the greatest thing.

And I have a huge library and a lot of books, every period of costumes, also photography books, and catalogs.

I also look at movies, catalogs.

Yes, you remember that, Adam, from bringing in catalogs.

And also, like with Ben,

you know, you would often recommend films to me for the tone of the projects we were working on.

And we would sometimes watch them together.

Do you remember that?

Yeah, did we watch Playtime together?

We did.

Yeah.

I mean, I think any filmmaker who goes out to make a movie probably watches Playtime.

by Jacques Taty, because it's such a brilliant movie.

And visually, stylistically, it's just so unique.

And it did happen to relate to Walter Mitty when we were working on Walter Mitty.

It did, but I felt like it also related to Severance.

Definitely.

Well,

I think there were a lot of Walter Mitty influences influences in Severance too.

And probably just the fact that you were doing it too and the sort of idea of this sort of workplace and this kind of a timeless workplace or the ideas of like what we think of and the workplace outfit, the uniform.

It kind of relates to the work shirt with the tie.

What's the Japanese term salary man?

Do you know that term?

Yes, and it's interesting, speaking of research, I looked at a lot of photographs from sort of the 80s and 90s of Japanese office workers, which were really interesting also.

Trying to kind of get to this no time, no place, which is something we talked about a lot.

You know, you and I talked about it not looking like a period movie.

Yeah.

But like you have these sets and this look, and then it's like, okay, well, the costumes are really going to put it into a very specific place if you commit to something that is an actual period.

That's right.

So you kind of had a more challenging job, I think, was then to figure out how to make it fit with the production design, but then also have it be its own thing.

Yeah, you probably wanted to really avoid any sort of lean in the madmen direction.

Yes, exactly.

You know, it was like, we don't want it to be madmen, but it can't really be modern and have this minimal, extreme minimal, clean, mid-century feeling and tie in with everything that was going on.

So sort of I looked at vintage clothes from those periods and tried a few on some of the act, you know, with Brit, we did a lot of that.

And then I took those shapes, the silhouettes, and remade them all in the colors that we were working with for the palette which was another big thing that was dictating the costumes.

You know, we went with a very tonal palette in Severance as opposed to a contrasting palette where you would have a green wall with a red dress.

We had a green wall with like something more tonal, like a different green or a blue or something neutral.

The palette was extremely tight on the cool side of the color wheel.

Yeah, and it's also even as you say that, it's sort of like when you think about like, oh, if you do like green on green, if it's too green on green, then it becomes too distracting and too uniform or right, or monochromatic or whatever.

But then sometimes that's right for what the scene is.

Yeah, I mean, somehow it did work.

Yeah, but it's interesting because I feel like that's always just been sort of like, you know, what is the, there's no like science to it, right?

You're when you're doing it, it's just sort of like what feels right, what looks right.

And I think a lot of our processes, you showing me pictures of actors in costumes and saying, what do you think of this?

What do you think of this?

I like this.

And it's really just like almost like an eye thing, right?

Yeah.

And do you remember we used to do show and tells?

Yeah.

We would make clothes because we couldn't find any of these clothes to buy in stores because it was right during COVID when we first started building this world.

And there were no ties.

Nobody was going to the office.

The stores were not offering

offerings.

There were like a table with 14 ties at like Saks Fifth Avenue.

It's like, where are the ties?

So we ended up just making so much more than I ever dreamed when I first came on the show.

Literally making the clothes.

Yes, we made suits, we made ties, we made shirts.

And you made the, just to jump to like episode 210, I remember there was a discussion we had about the marching band.

Yeah.

The CNN marching band uniforms.

And we made all of them.

Yeah.

I remember you came to me and said, there's this version where we rent the marching band uniforms, and then there's the version that we should be doing where we i make them

how long did it take to make all those uniforms sarah the marching band uniforms yeah yeah i mean we rushed them a lot i would say it was like five weeks was that one of the hardest things you ever had to do is make the marching band uniforms because there was a lot going on and you didn't have did you have people to try them you had to make them and then fit them on we made them and then we were waiting for them to cast the marching band so we were just standing by waiting for the trombone player

Another reason that you had to make a lot of the clothes was because of the color palette.

Am I right about that?

Like

it was a narrow palette.

So all of Helly's clothes you made.

I know my suits and Zach and John's suits, I believe, were all made specifically for the world.

They were.

I was really wanting to stay away from anything too contemporary or trendy.

I wanted it to just be very much like figures you might see in a diorama or a dollhouse, you know, just like uber minimal.

But you came up with a suit cut for Adam, right?

I did.

That was based on...

Well, it was based on sort of an amalgamation of different periods.

I mean, you know, I sort of looked at some 90s suits and they tend to have a single vent and two buttons, but they have pleated pants and it seemed too much.

You know, it was sort of like we played with different shapes and we found this one suit that was kind of left in the department store forever.

It was like in the back of the storage closet when I was going to,

we work with like studio services at all these stores.

So I went into the back and I found this sort of dusty old suit, but it seemed perfect.

It had just such a simple shape and it was single vented and flat front pants, but it wasn't skinny.

It was kind of maybe, I don't know, 10 years old or something.

And we put it on Adam and it.

was like, okay, well, this is close.

So let's see if we can get these made for Adam and just push them in the direction we want to go.

And was that sort of a key for you when you found that one?

It's like, okay, now that opened up the rest.

It did, because I thought it was good to have rules.

You know, I in the research, as we were talking about, I, you know, one of the things I was looking at is corporate handbooks from the 60s.

IBM had one.

And it was, it was the dress code for what you were allowed to wear.

So I made it up for myself.

You know, I made the handbook for severance, which is severance.

Incredibly severancey.

Because because we have a Lumen handbook, we all and we have those, and we actually made those handbooks up, too.

Kat Miller made them.

I know, I should have given her my, because she's so incredible, but she would have made a beautiful dress code handbook.

But I have it, we printed it out.

Oh, so you have your own?

I have, we printed it out.

I don't know.

I never saw that.

I should

show it to her.

Send it to me.

Okay.

But it just basically was like what was allowed down there.

And I felt like if we had those rules, that then it would just maintain the order in the clothes on that set.

By the way, I think that's so important, you know, talking about the rules of the world, right?

And talking about world building, we were just talking about world building with Janelle, and that you just have to make these decisions and stick by them.

You see what Mike Scher was talking about the other day, about how Greg Daniels came up with his rules for how they'd make the office.

I remember when we were first talking about the different characters in Dylan and Irving and their different looks, that I even said to you, do you remember?

I said, like, I feel like Dylan is kind of like the Dwight.

Yes, we talked about the office a lot.

And I looked at the office too.

And we gave him the sort of the Dwight yellow mustardy thing.

We did the shirt.

We made those shirts because try to buy a yellow mustard shirt.

That's so funny that that came from Dwight.

I had no idea.

Yeah, well, yeah, we looked at, you know, in my early days of the show, I always was like looking at it, like, oh, there are parallels here that I, you know, that I kind of love.

There were.

And I, we definitely, I went back and looked at all of that.

Yeah.

I'm curious for episode 204, Woes Hollow, the coats and the hats, which I really feel are such an important part of that episode.

What your first inspiration was.

Do you remember how they were described in the script and then where you went with that?

Yeah, it's interesting.

In the first version of the script I had, they weren't described at all.

They were just, there was no description.

So it's like, okay.

And I was like, okay, I guess they're in like North Face Parkas or something.

I had this whole idea that it was going to be parkas.

And I remember we had a meeting, you and I.

And Ben was like, no, no, no.

I think it's something historical.

Not north faced.

It's something, it's a fantasy.

It's this whole world that Mr.

Milchuk is making for the Orpo.

And I went back and I was like, oh my gosh, that's totally different than what I was thinking.

But let me get on this.

And I found this Swedish explorer picture, and I remember bringing it to you and saying, how about something like this?

Right.

I remember seeing that.

Do you remember who the explorer was?

His name's like Olaf Norgelberg.

Olaf Norgelberg?

He's one of my favorite recording artists.

Jewish, Swedish explorer?

Very few of those.

You're right.

Outdoor explorers.

What I do remember also is that we made these prototypes for you, and you said, we're going to look at them when we wrap.

And we were shooting at Bell Labs.

That's the Lumen location building.

And we went down to the basement.

Right.

And there was this glass sort of office box in the basement down there.

Do you remember?

And I brought them down.

It's all coming back to me now.

They were the prototypes with the hats.

But the hats, the hats.

So Olaf was wearing in his picture, he was wearing a hat.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that hat

immediately took me back to, first of all, all, like 19th century, right?

Yes.

And it felt Russian or something.

Yeah, sort of.

It felt a little bit, right?

But then it also took me to like 19.

Nordic.

Yeah, it also took me to the 70s.

Was that the guy?

Oh, wait a minute.

Barry, our producer, is showing the picture on the internet of this guy, the real guy.

Otto Nordenskold?

Is this how we pronounce this?

Otto, you're asking me?

I'm asking you.

I mean, I feel like Adam would know more than I would.

It's Nordenskal.

It was also very Javago.

Yes, that's right.

That's what I was looking for.

Dr.

Javago.

The 70s kind of comes in.

But the 70s.

But it's also the hat and seeing Taturo with that hat on with the mustache sent me back to like 1974.

Yes.

And like my dad had a hat like that.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like that was a popular hat

for like middle-aged guys in the 70s, was that hat.

Yeah.

And we made all those hats.

I mean, we made all the hats.

And each actor, I remember fitting the hats.

Like everybody had a certain kind of of thing they wanted their hat to be.

He had a little askew, right?

It's very cool.

It's very specific.

But under those coats, we had, I mean, putting that wardrobe on every morning was,

I mean, there were, there were because you had understood, you had like the old school like underalls.

Yeah, you had a long, like a woolen long john.

Yeah, that was like a, like a West, like from a Western, like a prospect or an old prospector to have

John's, right?

But then Sarah being a thoughtful, kind person, also made sure we each had an electric vest on underneath everything because it was going to be so cold out there.

Yeah, that was a whole thing.

The electric warmer vest was the thing that everybody was told to get before we started shooting that episode.

And I tried it once and I just because you have to have like a battery pack.

Yeah.

And it felt very like just it didn't, I didn't feel that much warmer and it didn't seem cool to wear an electric vest.

But but also once we were out there walking around after like two minutes, we're all sweating.

Like it just got so hot under all of those layers that we all took our electric vests.

I kind of, yeah, yeah, I kind of like remember like rapping at the end of the day and you like in your coat and hat and like being like, Yeah, yeah, like I kind of just like the look in your eye was sort of like, Yeah, great, great.

I got to get out of this.

I got to get out of this.

It was time to get out of here.

They were completely fur-lined.

I mean, we were afraid everyone was going to be freezing.

Yeah, I know.

I'm sorry.

No, I mean, it looks so cool, and it really has caught on.

Like, fans of the show love these outfits and those jackets and hats.

Well, I loved the idea of them retracing Keir and Dieter's steps in kind of similar attire,

you know, for the allegorical tale of the two brothers.

And they were dressed very similarly.

And for me, that kind of all tied in with something that maybe Mr.

Milchika.

Yeah, that was part of the experience that he was creating.

And Milchik's outfit.

Oh, it's just incredible.

Well, that was you, Ben.

No, it wasn't me.

I think it was.

No, you had it.

I remember you had like an option that was something different.

What was it?

Well, we originally they were going to be in the same, in the same costumes.

And you and I had a conversation, and you said, I feel like they should somehow,

you know, the Lumen employees should somehow be different from

the Unsevered should be different from the column.

I didn't have the idea for it to be white, incredible suede.

You were very, but you had something.

But you did inspire me.

I mean, you said, I feel like it should be a different color so they stand out.

Right, but then you came up with this amazing idea.

And wasn't there another color?

Wasn't there one other version of it?

We had another version of it, but it was kind of a, I don't know, it wasn't as successful.

I mean, again, we used to do the prototypes on the mannequins.

It was kind of like a wax museum in the costume department all the time.

Yeah, it's amazing because it would be like a workshop where Sarah's team is always coming up with new and like when we were for 210 coming up with Lauren's outfit.

Yeah.

Which and the development for her for 203 too.

And mammalians too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah.

All the mammalian wardrobe is so amazing.

Something that's so fun to see and is such a tribute to Sarah and her brilliance is I see it happen again and again where Ben sort of nods in a direction or says something out loud, like a direction to go in.

And then Sarah kind of takes that information and really like weaves it into something incredible and creates a whole world.

And there isn't anything about any of the wardrobe that Sarah puts together without reason behind it.

Everything has function.

And depending on what it is, there's a real flourish to it as well.

And so character specific.

Thank you, Adam.

I so appreciate that.

And I, you know, I love the collaboration with the actor because I always say nobody thinks about their character as much as they do.

And if you listen and you collaborate, the result is always better.

And especially with you, I mean,

you're such an intelligent actor.

And, you know, the way we collaborated on getting the details of your character, I feel like

it was always fun.

It was great.

It was always fun.

You have such great style and such great taste, really, Adam.

You do.

You do.

I was going to make another acting robot comment because every time I say it sounds bad, though, because I mean it's a compliment.

I love it.

No.

I do.

I was going to say there's that new Apple show Murderbot and like that now you should do a spin-off acting bot.

Actor bot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actor bot.

Yeah.

Tell me where to stand.

I will deliver the lines like that.

Exactly.

Well, Sarah, we have some hotline questions from people who can call in.

Yeah.

Okay.

So let's go to one of these hotline questions and see what we got.

Hi there.

My name is Paige, and I'm just wondering, do the innies have an opinion on how their outies dress them every day?

Like, do they think these shoes are uncomfortable?

Or I hate this dress?

Okay.

Thanks, guys.

Bye.

It's a good question.

It's an interesting question because like, if the shoes were uncomfortable, I feel like the Audi would not wear them.

Yeah, and the dress code is in season one when Nikki James and I are walking down the street in kind of the downtown area, you see in the background one of the clothing stores.

They have the Lumen dress code ready suits and dresses in the display window there.

So it's something that they dictate that you need to get.

And then you independently, I guess, need to go out and purchase your own.

Yeah.

Remember the little sign in the window?

We cater to severed.

Oh, that's right.

It was something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

In the little corner, there was a little sign.

That was one one of our first little world-building things we did.

I remember being very nervous about it too.

Because this is like, oh, this is a commitment.

But yet also thinking, oh, this is cool.

Like, this exists in this world.

And it's just like, it's just an everyday part of this world.

But, you know, the reality is that there's always a tension, I think, with the innies and their Audis in the show.

And I remember Britt like.

talking about as she was you know so upset with with her outie in the first season even looking at her clothes and dealing with like the frustration of being stuck in these, you know, these clothes that she didn't choose.

Yeah.

And then she talks about it right in season two.

Yeah.

Also.

But that resentment and that sort of like underlying thing of like, yeah, they're just sort of like, or they just have to accept it is just an interesting.

aspect of the show.

That's true.

Yeah.

It is.

And, you know, there's no one for them to really complain to.

Right.

But the dress code also is like just practical because it's like, oh, you can't have any logos of anything because an innie wouldn't be allowed to see anything on the outside world and things like that.

I was going to say it's form follows function.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I knew that I'd be able to use that term once in my life.

So cool.

Hello.

My name is Margaret Kubeck from Chile, Wisconsin.

And you've talked a lot about production design and the setting.

I'm really curious about the costume design, particularly for the women, for Hallie R, for Ms.

Casey, Mrs.

Salveg, Ms.

Coval.

I'd like to hear about those choices and how they were made.

Thank you so much.

Bye.

Okay.

Well, they go back to some of the stuff that we've already talked about.

You know, we really did try to start with some vintage silhouettes.

And from there, we made them our own.

So for pretty much, you know, with Britt, like her skirt, for example, we had a skirt from like 1972 that had that shape.

And we put it on her her in a fitting and it was pretty close, but it just felt a little clunky.

And I thought, let's pretend that we're doing a fashion line and I'm just gonna modernize this vintage silhouette.

So we made a skirt in our tailor shop with my tailor, Alice, and we fitted on her and then we had some sweaters that were simple to go with it.

One was vintage, one was modern.

I remember putting her in the whole thing and we did a camera test with the items we, the skirt we made and the sweater.

And Ben liked it.

I think, I don't want to speak for you, but I think that was the winner.

That was the one that we liked.

Sort of like the pencil skirt?

It was the A-line skirt.

Like we made the skirt and I think it was like the winner.

We were like, this is it.

This looks great in that.

She has a very specific style in the show.

Like there's no pants, right?

Yes, part of the dress code.

Women can only wear skirts or dresses and they have to wear pantyhose.

Yeah, which is an interesting thing to break down.

There's a conservative kind of oppressiveness about the wardrobe.

Right.

And with Kobell, with Patricia's character, I mean, you came up with these really great suits and dresses or like suit skirt suits type things.

Both, yeah.

She had like a dress with a with a jacket over it.

Yeah.

Kind of gave her the clout also that she needed to play that role.

She needed a little power in that role

in the shoulders, all of that.

So

but then there's the flip side, Mrs.

Selvig on the outside.

Oh, yeah.

And you had so much fun with that.

And the costume piece that stands out most to me is her coat, her crazy yellow.

What is that?

What Saturn is coat?

Quilted coat.

I didn't make it.

I actually was lucky enough to find that coat, but it came out of a conversation I had with Ben.

Do you remember

who we talked about as like a reference for that character next door?

I think we talked about Valerie Harper on Rhoda.

Is that what you're talking about?

That's one person.

That was one.

That was one person.

That was the TV show Rhoda in the 70s, which was a spin-off of the TV show, the Mary Tyler Moore Show.

And Rhoda was her neighbor who was this like really cool.

Valerie Harper played her, and she was like this cool 70s independent woman.

And she wore a lot of bandanas across her head.

That was it.

So we that's where we got the headscarves from.

You know, we went with the Rhoda look, but we also talked about one other show, which was.

Well, hang on a second.

Let me think.

For

Miss Selvig?

A little bit.

Mrs.

Roper?

Yes.

Yes.

Whoa, that's crazy.

That makes so much sense for her.

For most of the audience, Mrs.

Roper is from the show Three's Company, which is a sitcom in the 70s.

And she was the neighbors who lived upstairs from Jack Tripper and his two roommates.

Exactly.

They even got a spin-off, the Ropers.

That's right.

The Ropers.

It was sort of like the winter version of Mrs.

Roper's caftan.

That must be so fun working with Patricia.

So fun.

Oh, my God.

She is so amazing.

I just admire her so much as an actress, too.

She'll

take any chance, right?

She'll just, she'll try it on and say, let's go for it.

Let's see, right?

Always.

A famous costume designer once said to an actress, Who are we costuming today?

You or your character?

And with Patricia, it's always

her character.

Yep.

That's a good one.

That's a good one.

I feel like it's always me.

Which is why i i i'm a director now

for me it's always the character because i'm actor bot it's right you are and you should be proud of it um thank you sarah it's so great to talk to you gosh thank you both so much thanks sarah

and that's it for the episode the severance podcast with ben and adam will be back again next week and you can stream every episode of severance on apple tv plus

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott.

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your other podcast platform of choice.

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If you've got a question about Severance, call our hotline, 212-830-3816.

We just might play your voicemail and answer your question on the podcast.

Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, Naomi Scott, and Leah Rhys-Dennis.

This show is produced by Ben Goldberg.

It's mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

We have additional engineering from Hobby Cruises.

Show clips are courtesy of fifth season.

Music by Theodore Shapiro.

Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Schuff.

And the team at Red Hour, John Lescher, Carolina Pesakov, Jean-Pablo Antonetti, Martin Balderutin, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Sam Lyon.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

I'm Ben Stiller.

And I'm Adam Scott.

Thank you for listening.