Author Kris Newby explains how the first Lyme Disease infections happened just a few miles from an animal-testing lab in Connecticut. Could the spread of the disease be related to a lab leak?

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Speaker 3 If you live in certain parts of this country, rural areas particularly, you know people who have or who have had Lyme disease. And for some of them, maybe most, it's not a huge deal.

Speaker 3 You go in and you get a big dose of antibiotics. You have some symptoms and then it seems to go away.
But for some percentage, and you may know these people too, it's totally life-destroying.

Speaker 3 It's years in bed. It's agony.
It's really the end of your productive life. So what is that exactly? What is Lyme disease? Well, there's still an active debate about that very basic question.

Speaker 3 Some have dismissed it as a psychological symptom, actually.

Speaker 3 But even people who acknowledge that it's a physical syndrome aren't always very clear, and they're certainly not in agreement with one another about what it is or where it came from.

Speaker 3 So back in 2008, a woman called Chris Newby produced a documentary about Lyme. At that point, it was becoming a very serious global illness, and its origins were mysterious, unknown.

Speaker 3 People whispered about it, but no one could be certain that documentary was called under our skin here's part of it

Speaker 4 some infectious disease doctors they don't believe in lime and they said that i was faking it and pretending so i could get out of school

Speaker 5 lime is the fastest growing infectious disease in the country 200 000 new cases a year maybe even more it is a political disease and an economic disease as much as it is a bacterial-borne infection.

Speaker 7 I would never, never have thought that something like a bacteriological infection can become so politicized, the truth can be so brutally distorted.

Speaker 4 I go into despair daily. I cry daily.
I want to die daily.

Speaker 9 Well, when I saw this doctor, you know, he said, you've got a long road ahead of you. It's not going to be easy.
So that scared me. The unknown is pretty scary.

Speaker 10 It is a national health crisis that is completely and totally being ignored and squashed.

Speaker 10 What is going on?

Speaker 3 Well, you could write it off, and again, some have, as a figment of your imagination, but there are real neurological symptoms. And if you know anyone who's had it, you know that it's entirely real.

Speaker 3 So again, what is this?

Speaker 3 Well, Chris Newby has spent a lot of time thinking and researching on this topic, has been affected personally by Lyme, is the author of Bitten, The Secret History of Biological Weapons and Lyme Disease, and she joins us now.

Speaker 3 Christumi, thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker 3 So can you just give us a...

Speaker 6 Thanks for inviting me here.

Speaker 3 Oh, absolutely. A quick and succinct overview of what Lyme is.

Speaker 6 So Lyme disease is caused by a spirochetal bacteria.

Speaker 6 And you get it through a tick bite.

Speaker 6 And if you treat it immediately with doxycycline or amoxicillin, it will go away. The problem is it's very often misdiagnosed or diagnosed late.

Speaker 6 And that's where the controversy comes in for the disease.

Speaker 6 It can linger for months to years, and then it's really hard to get rid of. And to complicate it, a tick can transmit up to like 20 different

Speaker 6 disease-causing microbes. And so if you have like two or three or four of those in one tick bite, it creates a confusing set of symptoms that doctors have trouble diagnosing.

Speaker 3 So doctors can isolate, however, the organism that causes Lyme specifically. I mean, there's no mystery about where that comes from.
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 Well, there are antibody tests for Lyme disease.

Speaker 6 It's really, really hard to culture the, you know, take blood and culture it in a Petri dish. Yes.
The problem is the tests are not very reliable.

Speaker 6 The Lyme disease antibody tests don't usually work in the first month. It takes a while for your body to develop antibodies to the level that they can be measured.

Speaker 6 And then later on, the tests aren't that great. It's no better than a coin flip because it just depends on

Speaker 6 what strain you have and what you're ⁇

Speaker 6 if you're really sick, you won't produce antibodies.

Speaker 3 Interesting. So the problem with tick-borne diseases is there are a lot more ticks than there have been in our lifetimes anyway.

Speaker 3 Parts of the Northeast have seen an explosion in tick populations to the point where large mammals are being decimated, sucked dry of blood and dying because they have too many ticks on them.

Speaker 3 So that's not anyone's imagination. That's measurable.
So if you have a disease that's spread by ticks and there are a whole lot more ticks, you're going to get a whole lot more cases of the disease.

Speaker 3 Is this

Speaker 3 measurable?

Speaker 6 Yes. And

Speaker 6 I would say

Speaker 6 just the cases of Lyme disease are going up, which is proving that ticks are biting people. The CDC estimates there are half a million cases a year.
That's on average 1,300 people a day.

Speaker 6 So that's significant. Now, why they're spreading so quickly, I go into that in the book a little bit.

Speaker 6 I mean, there certainly is global with climate change, which means winters aren't as severe and a lot of the ticks don't die off.

Speaker 6 That's true in Maine.

Speaker 6 And then part of it is people are moving into the woods and are exposed more to the ticks.

Speaker 3 Yes,

Speaker 3 all true in Maine and other northern states. But it does raise the question, like, how did this, I mean,

Speaker 3 if you're 75 years old, you did not grow up with Lyme disease. If you're 15 years old, you're worried about Lyme disease.
That's a pretty short period. Where do we think this came from?

Speaker 8 Well, Well,

Speaker 6 the thing I found in my research for my book is Lyme disease wasn't a problem, problem, a noticeable problem until the mid-70s.

Speaker 6 And what my research said is that there are actually three really virulent tick-borne diseases that

Speaker 6 showed up right around Lyme, Connecticut, at the mouth of the Connecticut River, which is right across from Plum Island, which was the U.S.'s

Speaker 6 anti-animal crop headquarters for the biological weapons program. So late 60s,

Speaker 6 the peak of the biological weapons program in the U.S., these three freaky diseases showed up. So that was Lyme arthritis caused by the spirochete.
There was a Rickettsia, which is

Speaker 6 rocky-mounted spotted fever. And then there was a

Speaker 6 cattle parasite. It was the second time it was found in man in that area called Babesia.
And that's actually, I got Lyme and Babesia, which can be fatal and it's a serious disease.

Speaker 3 So all three, so you have a cluster, effectively, of these three previously rare diseases right across the water from the U.S. government's biological weapons testing facility.

Speaker 3 Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 6 Yeah, and it...

Speaker 6 It's if you're like working for the CDC and

Speaker 6 on the lookout for natural versus unnatural disease outbreaks, having three new tick-borne diseases show up,

Speaker 6 extra deadly disease-causing than in the past, it would raise

Speaker 6 it would get their attention and there would be investigations, which is what happened.

Speaker 3 That sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory to me. Just because you have previously rare diseases show up all at once across from a biological weapons facility doesn't mean

Speaker 3 so, okay, so the CDC investigated this. What did they find?

Speaker 8 Well, it

Speaker 6 a housewife in Lyme, Connecticut, Polly Murray, was the first one to start documenting, and she started pounding on the doors of local health departments in the CDC.

Speaker 6 And it really took her seven years before the CDC responded. And a doctor named Alan Steer showed up and started

Speaker 6 from Yale. He's a CDC EIS EIS officer and started investigating it.
And

Speaker 6 he figured out it was tick-borne, but he couldn't figure out the causative agent. And at that point,

Speaker 6 the U.S.'s number one tick researcher, Willie Bergdorfer, a Swiss-American tick guy who was in NIH's Rocky Mountain Laboratory, came out to investigate.

Speaker 6 And that's where he found, I mean, the public-facing story is he found the spirochete.

Speaker 6 It causes this bullseye rash. He said that's what's causing all the disease.
And

Speaker 6 the panic should stop. Just take two weeks of doxycycling and the problem will go away.
But it didn't. And that's where my book took off.

Speaker 6 I started looking at the backstory and wondering what really happened.

Speaker 6 People associated with that disease weren't acting in the normal way. Normally, when you discover

Speaker 6 a dangerous new disease, you say, oh, this is horrible. Give us money.
We'll research it. But instead, it just became more and more secretive.

Speaker 8 Yes.

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Speaker 3 so did did is it your belief that willy berg bergdorfer who i think is is gone now but knew the truth about what happened and what what do you think is the truth well i I worked on the Lyme disease documentary with fresh eyes because I didn't know anything about the disease until my husband and I got it.

Speaker 6 And the thing that was unusual is the symptom set on the CDC website and in the medical textbooks was totally different than what we had experienced.

Speaker 6 So then I teamed up with the director, Andy Wilson, and we spent three and a half years. researching the disease and what we found out is it was just an enormous epidemic.

Speaker 6 So many people are suffering. And the treatment recommended by public health, which was two weeks of doxycycline, wasn't curing it.

Speaker 6 But these patients who went on to get the same symptoms over and over again were not given any more antibiotics.

Speaker 6 And then

Speaker 6 we wanted to understand what was going on with the disease. So Andy and I...
called all the CDC people, the NIH people.

Speaker 6 They wouldn't talk to us. Like one of the original original discoverers even hung up on me.

Speaker 6 I said, I just want someone to go on camera and talk about how this disease, how this organism causes a disease. But to have a professor,

Speaker 6 you know, who discovered the disease hang up on me, it was just unusual. There was paranoia amongst the specialists.

Speaker 6 So what we did was we went out to see Willie Bergdorfer, who was retired, the guy who discovered Lyme disease at his home.

Speaker 6 And while we were setting up the cameras, someone from the lab knocked on the door and says,

Speaker 6 I need to sit in on

Speaker 6 this interview. There's things Willie can't talk about.

Speaker 6 And the director was outraged and kicked him out.

Speaker 6 But during that interview, Willie intimated that there was more to Lyme disease than the public health was letting on, that the disease is not just a rash,

Speaker 6 highly neurological, especially damaging for children. And two weeks of doxycycling doesn't work, and they know it can go on to be chronic.

Speaker 6 So it was our first hard proof that something wasn't as it seemed on the surface with Lyme disease.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 so we got the film out. And one thing, one of the aspects that we covered in the film is just conflicts of interest in medicine because right around the time Lyme disease was discovered,

Speaker 6 researchers at universities, the CDC, the NIH, could share in the profits of a new test or vaccine for a disease. So there was a lot of

Speaker 6 like and a C D C employee could match their salary in royalties for a vaccine or a test kit.

Speaker 6 So it corrupted the incentives in medicine not to share information about a new disease, but instead to save it as intellectual property so it can be monetized. So so anyways, we got the film out.

Speaker 6 There were rumors swirling around about Plum Island and it being Lyme disease being a biological weapon, but we had enough to cover with the patient story and the conflict story.

Speaker 6 And then I was done with it, and I got a great job writing science for Stanford Medical School in the science department.

Speaker 6 And I was going to walk away and get along with my life. But then

Speaker 6 two things happened within the space of a month. And I said, I can't let this story go.
I just have to know what is really going on with this disease.

Speaker 6 And one was I met a CDC, I mean, a CIA black ops guy who said in 1962, the weirdest thing he'd ever done in his whole crazy apocalypse now career was dropping poison ticks on Cuban sugar cane workers.

Speaker 6 That was Operation Mongoose.

Speaker 6 So that was the first evidence that we had dropped ticks on a... a foreign country as a bioweapon.

Speaker 6 And then the other thing is one of my filmmaker friends went out to Willie Bergdorfer and in a very long interview, at the very end, he said, yeah, when I investigated the Lyme disease sickness in the

Speaker 6 late 70s, early 80s, there was another organism there. It wasn't just Lyme that was making people sick.

Speaker 6 It was,

Speaker 6 and I was told to cover it up. It was probably a Rickettsia.
He didn't release all the information, but what he said was confirmed by copies of his lab books books and

Speaker 6 subsequent interviews that I had with him.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 pardon my ignorance. What is the disease you described, the other one? Rickettsia?

Speaker 6 So it's a Rickettsia.

Speaker 6 It is

Speaker 6 the same organism that causes rocky-mounted spotted fever, and that's the most deadly tick-borne disease in the United States. It also was

Speaker 6 a germ that was being weaponized by

Speaker 6 the U.S. military at the time.

Speaker 6 And they tried to stuff it in ticks. I mean, so what is tick weaponization?

Speaker 6 So in the interviews with Willie, what he said was, I spent over a decade in the biological weapons program, a contractor to Fort Dietrich,

Speaker 6 working on

Speaker 6 weaponizing fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes, trying to mass produce them, stuffing fleas with the plague,

Speaker 6 stuffing mosquitoes with deadly Trinidad virus,

Speaker 6 Trinidad virus, and then stuffing ticks with either deadly or incapacitating, inhascipating diseases like relapsing fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, rabies,

Speaker 6 leptospirosis, which is another spirochete. So it's just like Dr.
Strangelove

Speaker 6 trying to make new diseases, mixing bacteria and virus intics

Speaker 6 with the intent of this is the perfect stealth weapon. It's poor man's nuke.
You drop these insects on an enemy. It weakens the population.

Speaker 6 It ties up the medical resources, but doesn't destroy infrastructure. like a nuclear bomb would.
And in one report from a bean counter in the military, they said,

Speaker 6 tularemia, which is tick-borne tularemia, also rabbit fever, we can kill 10,000 people at $1.33 a life.

Speaker 6 So anyways, it was just,

Speaker 6 there was more to tick-borne diseases than we realized. And I began suspecting that Willie was right, given this context.

Speaker 3 It's hard to digest all of this. It's just so evil.
It's hard to believe it could happen in the United States.

Speaker 3 But I think you're right that it did and maybe still happening.

Speaker 3 Let me ask what you think happened in the specific case of Lyme.

Speaker 3 So these kinds of experiments were taking place on Plum Island. Is that confirmed?

Speaker 6 Well, Plum Island only did animal diseases.

Speaker 6 There was another branch, which is Maryland, Fort Dietrich. They did anti-human weapons.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 I'm not sure exactly what got out where. Because if you draw like a five-mile circle around Lyme, Connecticut, there's Plum Island, there's several military bases.

Speaker 6 There are many pharmaceutical companies that were funded by the military to develop treatments for these diseases, and so they would have to have the diseases on site. So that's my continuing

Speaker 6 research.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 there are a couple,

Speaker 6 well, first of all, back up, to weaponize a living system like a bug or the germs in bugs, or later on in the 60s, they separated the germs and aerosolized them.

Speaker 6 They would freeze dry them, powderize them, and then spray them on.

Speaker 6 The plan was to spray them on enemies from planes. or buoys or vehicles.

Speaker 6 So to develop a a weapon like that, you have to have someone like Willie Bergdorfer seeing if they can get these living systems to work and develop the lethal dosage of those organisms.

Speaker 6 Then, you have to do pilot studies that usually happened, could happen

Speaker 6 in Connecticut or at Fort Dietrich in Maryland. And then there would be larger studies, and that would be at like Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah.

Speaker 6 So, there was a lot of leak points for any accidents that could have happened in this biological weapons program. So

Speaker 6 what Willie said, and

Speaker 6 I think he's a really credible witness because he had the most to lose by admitting towards the end of his life that I covered up something really important and now I feel guilty about it.

Speaker 6 All his fame came at 56 when he discovered Lyme disease. So what he said is, and he wouldn't give me the details of the organism that was the bioweapon, but he said accidents happened.

Speaker 6 So my my continuing work is to try and figure out: okay, where was the leak? And most crucially, like, why were there multiple tick-borne diseases in that very, very small spot?

Speaker 6 Also, there were some in northern Wisconsin where we had a biological weapons, that's the anti-crop area in the genetic engineering area of the bioweapons program. So,

Speaker 6 what I sort

Speaker 6 through in documents and grants and and newspapers.com are

Speaker 6 were there sentry die-offs of animals and people that are hidden there?

Speaker 6 Because the biological weapons program was as secret as the Manhattan program, and a lot of the documents were destroyed after the program was canceled in 72.

Speaker 6 I have to say, one of the most outrageous open-air experiments, which I think contributed to the problem around Lyme, Connecticut, is coastal Virginia, a

Speaker 6 tick researcher, had an Army contract and a contract with the Atomic Energy Commission. And he was testing lone star ticks

Speaker 6 as a potential

Speaker 6 weaponized organism. And the thing about

Speaker 6 lone star ticks is

Speaker 6 they were from the south originally they identified them in Texas below the Mason-Dixon line. But here he was on the Mason-Dixon line testing by the hundreds of thousands a non-native tick.

Speaker 6 And he wanted to see

Speaker 6 how far they can creep in months to years, because if you're weaponizing it, you would want to know that information. So from Willie Brigdorfer in Montana, he got

Speaker 6 some

Speaker 6 pregnant ticks. So they have

Speaker 6 They're called gravid ticks, but they have 2,000 to 4,000 eggs inside of them. He would inject them with a

Speaker 6 radioactive isotope.

Speaker 6 The ticks would hatch all their larval babies, and then he would, and they would be radioactive for life. So, first of all,

Speaker 6 you're going to release them in nature. Isn't going to cause mutations in the organisms inside their gut.

Speaker 6 But anyways, what he would do is he'd take a thousand ticks and put a thousand per grid in a marshy field. And then he and his assistants would go out every month.

Speaker 6 They'd use a Geiger counter to figure out how far the ticks had creeped in that amount of time.

Speaker 6 And then write studies on them, which are actually in the public domain.

Speaker 8 But

Speaker 6 this is an open-air test on the Atlantic bird flyway,

Speaker 6 1966, 67, 68.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 Sure enough, like

Speaker 6 after those tests ended, there was

Speaker 6 an unusual epidemic on Long Island of Rocky Mountain spotted fever, which is spread by those kind of tics.

Speaker 6 A lot of people died, usually on Long Island.

Speaker 6 In the late 60s, there would be one death a year. But after this experiment,

Speaker 8 like

Speaker 6 over 100 people gravely ill, quite a few deaths. And actually, that's why Willie Bergdorfer came out, is to try and figure out what happened there.

Speaker 6 So the point is, this is just one experiment we know about in the biological weapons program. And why does it matter now? Because

Speaker 6 human hubris, we can't control nature. And if we're going to play God and make these new germs inside ticks

Speaker 6 and then release them, there could be blowback, unintended consequences. And that's what I believe,

Speaker 6 this thing that we call Lyme disease, but which could be multiple organisms organisms

Speaker 6 that are making people sick. But no, for some reason, the government said it's only this one spirochete, it can be cured with two weeks of antibiotics.
And I think that's fundamentally untrue.

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Speaker 3 Two last questions.

Speaker 3 One,

Speaker 3 did you or have you discovered any die-offs,

Speaker 3 the ones you referred to a minute ago, of people or animals,

Speaker 3 clusters of deaths?

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 6 In the late 60s,

Speaker 6 early 70s,

Speaker 6 there were

Speaker 6 duck die-offs.

Speaker 6 The Long Island duck industry was decimated,

Speaker 6 which,

Speaker 8 yeah.

Speaker 6 So,

Speaker 6 and then also there were

Speaker 6 epidemics of equine encephalitis, where really high-dollar horse flesh died. That's all the late 60s.
And then you have the human illness, which we call Lyme disease.

Speaker 6 But I've talked to witnesses who went to school. I mean, they're my age now.
They went to school. And

Speaker 6 you would see a Lyme Connecticut bus pull up and a third of the bus, these elementary school kids would be carrying crutches with swollen knees.

Speaker 3 Grotesque. And so my final question, it's mostly rhetorical, but has the U.S.
government, which is clearly responsible for this, I think it's pretty obvious,

Speaker 3 done anything to stop it, to help people who are suffering from it, to offer any kind of payment to people whose lives they destroyed?

Speaker 8 Well,

Speaker 6 there is no hard proof that this epidemic was caused by them. It's circumstantial evidence, I would say.
And I'm really clear in my book to say this is what we know and this is what we don't know.

Speaker 6 But I find their response to be really inadequate because the symptom list isn't accurate. It's been 40 years and we still don't have a good test.

Speaker 6 They're only the NIH, who has a pretty small budget for it, it's gone from 30 million to 50 million a year,

Speaker 6 has spends like 60% of the budget on basic research, but only less than 1% on treatments.

Speaker 6 So even though the treatment recommended by the CDC, there's like a 20% failure rate and those people going to get sick,

Speaker 6 they're not investing anything in treatment. It's pretty similar to what's happening with long COVID.
They're just obsessed with the deaths and maybe the upfront acute disease, but

Speaker 6 not the chronic, the growing number of chronic people. So the thing I worry about is it's okay.
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 Well, it's just, it's, I was just thinking, I would never have done this segment if I hadn't seen it myself.

Speaker 3 And so somebody has done a pretty good job of discrediting sufferers of whatever this is as crazy and suggesting that these are psychosomatic symptoms. And I'll just speak for myself.

Speaker 3 I would have bought that if I hadn't known people personally very well who are not crazy at all or depressed or, you know, or fragile even, who were decimated by it. So

Speaker 3 where did that piece of propaganda come from? Do you know?

Speaker 6 I think it's the same dynamic

Speaker 6 that we see

Speaker 6 with trying to discredit the lab leak theory.

Speaker 6 I mean, there's a small group of people that were read into this biological weapons program. I know that from reading the emails in NIH when my book came out.
Like,

Speaker 6 before they'd read the book, they discredited it because they hadn't read the facts, and it was so secretive. So there's a small group of people controlling the information.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 the boots on the ground, the physicians now have been trained the whole 15 minutes of medical school that they learn about tick-borne diseases that Lyme disease is overdiagnosed, it's easy to cure, and they don't know this very elaborate, complicated backstory.

Speaker 6 So, I mean, that's what the book hopefully will do is

Speaker 6 read them, that they need to treat tick-borne diseases

Speaker 6 seriously.

Speaker 6 They're not minor. They're life-changing.
And it's going to be a drag on our economy to have

Speaker 6 this many

Speaker 6 long COVID, chronic fatigue, and Lyme disease patients unable to work.

Speaker 6 We haven't invested in treatments.

Speaker 3 So for people who are interested in learning more, can you restate the title of your book, if you would?

Speaker 6 It's been The Secret History of Lyme Disease and Biological Weapons.

Speaker 6 And I have to say, I didn't prove that Lyme disease is a biological weapon, but I'm saying something unusual, which I think is related to the biological weapons program, happened in the late 60s, and the government wants to cover it up.

Speaker 6 And it matters because how you treat an unnatural disease is different than a natural disease where people have developed immunity. For an unusual disease, you need

Speaker 6 a more well-thought-out, intelligent treatment plan.

Speaker 3 Well, sure. I mean, it's not like cholera, you know, that we've been dealing with for millennia.
I sure appreciate your coming on. Thank you.
That's fascinating.

Speaker 3 And thanks for all the responsible research you've done into this.

Speaker 3 Appreciate it.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Thanks very much for talking to me.

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