Eduardo Bolsonaro & Paulo Figueiredo

Speaker 1 A little less than two years ago, we went to Brazil to cover the presidential election then in progress.

Speaker 1 The incumbent, President Gerbol Sonaro, was running against a former president, a convicted felon, who's very close to the government of China called Lula.

Speaker 1 And as you wandered around the country, went to its biggest cities, you really got the feeling if this election goes to Lula, this place is going to, in very short order, become a police state.

Speaker 1 People are going to go to jail. Democracy is going to end.
The media will no longer be able to report honestly and openly. And the Chinese government will have undue influence over Brazil.

Speaker 1 And that's a big deal, not just for Brazilians, but for the United States, because Brazil is the most significant country in the Americas after this one. It's huge.

Speaker 1 It's got enormous natural resources. It's got a well-educated population.
There's a lot in Brazil.

Speaker 1 And so if it descends into darkness, that's a problem not just for Brazil, but for every country in this hemisphere.

Speaker 1 So the question is, two and a half years later, a year and a half later rather, what happened in Brazil? Lula won in an election that was very obviously rigged.

Speaker 1 And what happened to the country? So we thought we would get an update now with Eduardo Bolsonaro. He's the son of the former president.

Speaker 1 He's a very well-known legislator in Brazil, and he joins us on set now. Eduardo, thanks so much for coming on.
Thank you, Tucker.

Speaker 1 So, looking down from here, from a vantage of thousands of miles, but at Brazil, it looks like it's no longer a free country.

Speaker 2 Sure, not anymore. We have people get censored, not only social media.
You have people exiled, living here, United States.

Speaker 2 For example, I'll tell you the names to have no doubt about what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 Rodrigo Constantino, Paulo Figuerido, Alan Dussans are three journalists that are living here in the United States. And as the Supreme Court...

Speaker 1 But they're Brazilian journalists who cover Brazilian politics, but they're living here. Why are they here?

Speaker 2 Because they cannot work anymore in Brazil. And also because you always have the risk of be arrested by the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 And to be honest, not the whole Supreme Court, but one justice called Alejandro Jimorais.

Speaker 2 He had opened an investigation for more than five years, persecuting usually conservatives.

Speaker 2 So these gentlemen, Alan Du Santros, Rodrigo Figueroid, Paulo Co Figuerio, Rodrigo Constantino, they are living here because they are shuttered down in Brazil.

Speaker 2 Alecente Resmoraes, this justice, he cannot even let this person have a Twitter or Facebook account in Brazil.

Speaker 2 If you are in Brazil and you want to see what they are posting, you need to turn on your VPN or be outside of Brazil.

Speaker 1 Wait a second.

Speaker 1 Okay, so the Biden administration is a great protector of democracy and human rights around the world. They tell us that every day.

Speaker 1 And yet their close ally, the Lula government, is shutting down press freedom and forcing journalists into exile. Have they said anything about this?

Speaker 1 Has the State Department complained about any of this?

Speaker 2 I never listened to something about that.

Speaker 2 But what we are doing, we are receiving some support from our other congressmen from the Republican Party. For example, Marjorie Greener, Chris Smith, among others.

Speaker 2 We had some conversations last year, and we are expecting to this year come back to the Congress in a bigger delegation of Brazilian congressmen to have a hearing in a commission inside of the Congress to at least tell all around the world what is going on in Brazil.

Speaker 2 Because in Brazil, it's not worth anymore. You appeal.
You don't have for who appeal. It's the Supreme Court suing people.
They say that they are the victims. They accuse and they judge everybody.

Speaker 2 This is not a

Speaker 2 democracy anymore. I cannot say that, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 And you don't have where to appeal or who ask for help.

Speaker 1 So just to get specific about what's happened and when. So it was the very last day, I think your father's term ended on New Year's Eve, 2022.
I think that's right.

Speaker 1 December 31st.

Speaker 1 January 8th, you had your own January 6th.

Speaker 2 Yes. This is that excuse that they use to go after every conservative that so almost a year to the day later,

Speaker 1 the United States government was involved in it as well, the Biden administration.

Speaker 1 You had a supposed attempted coup on the democratically elected government of Brazil, the Lula government, and conveniently a bunch of Lula's political opponents wound up in jail.

Speaker 1 Is that a fair summary? Yes.

Speaker 2 Is that what happened? Yes. And the funny thing, Tucker, is that they say that it was an attempt of a coup,

Speaker 2 but in January, In a Sunday, no weapons were arrested. There was no support from police or armed forces.
So, in fact, it was a protest that went far away.

Speaker 2 I do not agree to people breaking the doors of the Congress or the Supreme Court, whatever. But these people now is getting punishments of 17 years in jail.
If you commit

Speaker 1 protesting. And can I just say, it's pretty clear that your election was stolen by the Lula government.
I think that's fair to say. From the outside, it looked stolen.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 I have my opinion. This is a very sensitive issue.
No, I know.

Speaker 2 I have to take care about my words, but what I can tell you is...

Speaker 1 Why would you have to take care of

Speaker 1 your words?

Speaker 2 You have a congressman that is in jail now because he made a video, Tucker. He made a video talking bad words for the Supreme Court.
This man, a congressman, is in jail for 90 years.

Speaker 2 His name is Daniel Silvera.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait. He's in jail for criticizing the Supreme Court?

Speaker 2 Yes. Not only criticized.
He said bad words. That's true.
I would never do a video like that, but imagine.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Bad words.
Did he threaten violence?

Speaker 1 Some,

Speaker 2 how can I say that?

Speaker 2 Talking shit things to the ministers.

Speaker 2 Your mother is this and that.

Speaker 2 You know, things are.

Speaker 1 But you're allowed to talk shit to people in power in a free country, aren't you?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Where you have the First Amendment respected, yes.

Speaker 2 But in Brazil, we have some articles inside of the Constitution that guarantee for senators and congressmen like me that you do not receive any kind of punishment about what we speak.

Speaker 2 It's even you say like we have a freedom of speech in Brazil, at least in the constitution, and the congressman is one step ahead because we cannot receive punishment about our words, votes, or whatever we say.

Speaker 2 But as this congressman is in jail now and the things are getting worse.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm sorry, and I keep talking over your story. I'm just amazed that some of you

Speaker 1 are criticizing the government.

Speaker 1 It's obviously not a free country just on the basis of that.

Speaker 1 But I said it was very obvious from our perspective, from the U.S. perspective, that your election was rigged with the help of the CIA.
That was my conclusion.

Speaker 2 There is a very good article in Financial Times talking about the help of U.S. to guarantee the democracy in Brazil.

Speaker 1 And by guaranteeing democracy, that would be guaranteeing the election of the left-wing candidate.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. And the thing is, there is so much power that the establishment did, for example, to avoid the printed vote amendment that we tried to approve in 2021.

Speaker 2 Why someone from the electoral court, the electoral court, they organize and they judge everything about the elections in Brazil.

Speaker 2 Why someone from the electoral court, the Superior Electoral Court, as the president, Justice Bajos,

Speaker 2 came to the Congress and talked with 11 presidents of political parties, telling them to do not approve the printed vote amendment.

Speaker 2 Why someone works to not have more transparency in the election?

Speaker 2 It's strange. But as Tucker, in my position, I can tell you, I cannot accuse that the elections was frauded, but they cannot prove that it wasn't.

Speaker 3 Hate to brag, but we're pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro-dog podcast you're ever going to see. We can take or leave some people, but dogs are non-negotiable.
They are the best.

Speaker 3 They really are our best friends. And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet.
It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service.

Speaker 3 Dutch.com is on a mission to create what you need, what you actually need, affordable quality veterinary care anytime, no matter where you are. They will get your dog or cat what you need immediately.

Speaker 3 It's offering an exclusive discount, Dutch is, for our listeners. You get 50 bucks off your vet care per year.
Visit Dutch.com slash Tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for $50 off.

Speaker 3 That is an unlimited vet visit, $82 a year, $82 a year. We actually use this.
Dutch has vets who can handle any pet under any circumstance in a 10-minute call. It's pretty amazing, actually.

Speaker 3 You never have to leave your house. You don't have to throw the dog in the truck.
No wasted time waiting for appointments. No wasted money on clinics or visit fees.

Speaker 3 Unlimited visits and follow-ups for no extra cost, plus free shipping on all products for up to five pets. It sounds amazing like it couldn't be real, but it actually is real.

Speaker 3 Visit dutch.com slash Tucker to learn more. Use the code Tucker for 50 bucks off, your veterinary care per year.
Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you.

Speaker 4 This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game?

Speaker 4 Well, with the name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com.

Speaker 4 Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.
Not available in all states.

Speaker 1 Okay, but just to be totally clear, in a free country, you can have any opinion you want about an election because you're a citizen.

Speaker 2 Right? Now in Brazil, they consider it's a crime.

Speaker 1 So it would be a crime for you to say, yes, I think the election was stolen.

Speaker 2 Yes, I could suffer a lot down there in Brazil if I come back.

Speaker 1 Even though we know for a fact the CIA was tampering in the democratic process in Brazil, was playing a role in the election.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. You know, and one of the things why my father got ineligible in a record time, right after Lula take office, is because he had a maiden.

Speaker 1 He was told he could never run again.

Speaker 2 Yes, he is ineligible until 2026. We are trying to overturn it inside of the courts, but as you can imagine, it will be very hard to do that.
I still have a hope.

Speaker 2 But anyway, he was turned ineligible because he had a meeting with ambassadors and talked with them about the electoral system in Brazil, how it works, and criticized some points. Normal thing.

Speaker 2 But before of this meeting of Bolsonaro and the ambassadors, the president of the Superior Electoral Court, he had the same meetings with these ambassadors.

Speaker 1 Wait, so you're saying that your father, who's often been compared to Trump, has been declared ineligible to run again in the next election on the basis of complaints about the electoral system, and that you had a protest against a rigged election that was backed by the U.S.

Speaker 1 government, and that as a result of that, Lula's political opponents wound up in jail. I mean, this sounds like exactly what's happening in the United States.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Is it not? Have you noticed that?

Speaker 2 Yes. I usually say that it's the same semivirus, but in Brazil it has unless antibodies.
Actually, this is a phrase of the journalist Paulo Figueredo.

Speaker 2 It's the semi-virus here, but imagine that in Brazil, the left-wing or at least the establishment, they fully control the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 And who could do the check and balances and stop the Supreme Court to do that is the Senate. But the Senate...

Speaker 2 They don't take any kind of action against that.

Speaker 2 They have exactly the same speech of the Supreme Court justices.

Speaker 2 So in the end of the day, Brazilians are losing the hope to get back democracy because if you use machines to vote and you don't have a way to at least recount the votes, you have to trust the system 100%.

Speaker 2 And then they don't let more transparency in the elections. How can we elect someone

Speaker 2 Bolsonaro, a conservative, a right-wing, or someone outside of the establishment? This is the feeling that a lot of Brazilians have nowadays, unfortunately, in Brazil.

Speaker 1 I mean, once you have electronic voting machines, you can't be certain that the system is real. Yes.
Why do you have electronic voting machines?

Speaker 2 I tried to avoid that. Once again, we approved in 2017 this printed vote bill.

Speaker 2 What is that? We use machines to vote, all right?

Speaker 2 This bill says that it was necessary to have a printer

Speaker 2 aside of the machine so at least you could recount the vote when you have any kind of suspicion in the election. It was approved in 2017 a federal law.
All right.

Speaker 2 On the next year, the Supreme Court said that this is unconstitutional.

Speaker 2 That's why

Speaker 2 In 2019, we started to do not only a bill to change the federal law, but amendment to change the Constitution. And we we would have the votes because this

Speaker 2 was never an issue of a right-wing or a left-wing politician. It was something that was used to

Speaker 2 get together all of the Congress. But then, as I said, the president of the electoral court came to the Congress, talked with 11

Speaker 2 presidents of parties, and changed their mind.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the amendment didn't go away.

Speaker 1 If you have electronic voting machines with no way to recount and no way to prove what the votes actually were, if you're in favor of that, clearly you're committing fraud.

Speaker 1 I mean, what would be the other reason to be in favor of that?

Speaker 2 They say that it would be an anti-democratic comment of you and they will shut it down in Brazil.

Speaker 1 So if I was a Brazilian citizen and I was in your media and I said what I just said,

Speaker 2 they would shut down your social media. It's exactly what happened if Paulo Figueroa.
Do Paulo Figueroa do someone like you, Tucker?

Speaker 1 Wait a second. I would not be allowed to say that in Brazil.

Speaker 2 If you say it would be only once.

Speaker 1 Only once. Only once.

Speaker 2 Then they're going to shut you down. And if you keep doing, they send the FBI to your house.
And if you keep doing,

Speaker 2 they freeze your accounts. Just what happened with Paulo Figuerid.
That's why he's living here together with Alan Dusantos and Henrik Constantino.

Speaker 2 Paulo Figuerid was usually to have daily millions and millions of Brazilians watching him.

Speaker 2 Imagine you took having like the best moment of your car here in Fox News. And the Supreme Court justice says, okay, you cannot say that Lula is convicted.

Speaker 2 you cannot say that he has connection with Maduri and Daniel Ortega you cannot say that he has ties with the PCC the largest organized crime in Brazil it happened

Speaker 1 you can google it you're going to say see that yes I can imagine that if that's the question

Speaker 1 that's the question um

Speaker 1 but I can't imagine living in a society where you're just not allowed to say it anywhere. I mean, anywhere.
So you're saying, if I write that on X,

Speaker 1 if I broadcast it on a television channel, if I say it in a podcast, if I say it enough, I'll be shut down.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Or even more than that.
For example,

Speaker 2 when you've been in Brazil, you met Felipe Martínz, right? Yes. He's the Jared Kushner of Bujari Bolsonaro.
Yeah, I know him well. Yeah.
Special advice. This guy now is in jail.

Speaker 1 Why is he in jail?

Speaker 2 It's a good question.

Speaker 2 It's the same question that we do. And see, he's in jail because at least what we see.

Speaker 1 Like literally in jail.

Speaker 2 He accomplishing a preventive jail is what we say

Speaker 2 before the judgment. You are in prevent jail

Speaker 2 to guarantee that he is not making confused investigations or to guarantee that the law will be applied against him so he can't run away.

Speaker 2 I don't know in fact what moved Alexander Jimorais to send him to jail, but

Speaker 2 as is very usual in dictatorships, they go around the leader of the opposition movement, arresting people, you know, sending the federal police or their,

Speaker 2 we say, SS Guard,

Speaker 2 arresting and sending to the house of the other people. My brother, Carlos, he received the visit of the federal police.

Speaker 2 Everybody that's around the Jerry Bolsonaro are going,

Speaker 2 are being arrested or receiving the federal police in their houses houses to do some

Speaker 2 research

Speaker 2 orders, warranties from Alexander Jimorais.

Speaker 1 Has it happened to you?

Speaker 2 Not yet, but I think naturally, one day it will happen.

Speaker 1 Do you think you can stay in Brazil?

Speaker 2 I don't feel that I can say everything that I want, even if I'm now a congressman and the most voted congressman in the history of Brazil, former chair of the Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee and son of the former president.

Speaker 2 Because if they send a congressman to jail because he recorded a video,

Speaker 2 they can do

Speaker 2 anything they want.

Speaker 2 That's why I'm telling you, I have to make sure about my words before especially talk about election and in the past also about the pandemic.

Speaker 2 vaccines and all of that.

Speaker 1 You're not allowed to complain about vaccines.

Speaker 2 They are saying that they are going to say that you are anti-vaccine and you are committing a genocide. This is what they were using to talk about.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're committing the genocide. Yeah.
By questioning the vaccines that killed all those people. You're the genocidal maniac.

Speaker 2 My father, he bought with the federal government a budget, he bought more than 600 million vaccines. In Brazil, you could even choose what brand of vaccine you would like to receive.

Speaker 2 But Jerry Bolsonaro always said, you take it if you want. It's up to you.
And be careful because, for example, Pfizer, if you read everything that Pfizer advised you

Speaker 2 about the vaccines, I don't think you would take that.

Speaker 2 Because all of the Brazilians,

Speaker 2 we are in a poor country. What Brazilians go to a doctor before receive a shot?

Speaker 2 No one. And maybe if you have problems with your immune system and some other pre-sickness,

Speaker 2 maybe you're going to die. And when you die, you never have an investigation to check if it was a consequence of the vaccine that you took.
It's crazy. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 But this issue, you know a lot because I see that it happens a lot here in the United States, too.

Speaker 1 What's amazing is how similar what's happened in Brazil is to what's happening here. It feels like you're a couple of years ahead of us.

Speaker 1 And it's even more amazing that the Biden administration and the government of China have played such a big role in it.

Speaker 1 And let's end on this. China was a big issue in your father's campaign, I remember.

Speaker 1 China wants Brazil's natural resources. China already owns a lot of your infrastructure, your power grid, et cetera.

Speaker 2 Wood, soya.

Speaker 1 Food, exactly.

Speaker 1 What role has China played, do you think, in what's happening now?

Speaker 2 Now they are free to do whatever they want because Lula considers them an ally and they consider the U.S.

Speaker 1 the imperialist of the world.

Speaker 2 You know, Lula is an old-fashioned communist.

Speaker 2 That's not a coincidence that during his second mandate

Speaker 2 in around 2008 or 2009, China became, for the first time after,

Speaker 2 I don't know, maybe one century, the number one trade partner of Brazil. Because in the whole history of Brazil, it was used to be United States.
Yes. But not anymore.

Speaker 2 This is also very weird how the U.S. can do a campaign to guarantee the democracy, as the Financial Times told.

Speaker 2 supporting Lula,

Speaker 2 when we were always opened, even during the Biden administration, to be together with them. It's not a problem for us.

Speaker 2 I want to do trades and business with the US way more than with China because China, you know, do business with the US or any other country here in the Western Hemisphere is not the same thing to do business with China.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 But unfortunately, the current president, he doesn't think like that. He thinks that we have to be close of China because...

Speaker 1 But why would the Biden administration be so supportive of Lula when he's anti-American?

Speaker 2 I think because

Speaker 2 they're both left-wings, ideology. This is the connection.

Speaker 2 It's a craziness connection, I guess. Because if you think really thinking the Americans, you should never do that.
I'll tell you,

Speaker 2 it's here in the United States, sometimes I see debates talking about a possible third world war or a conflict with China, right?

Speaker 2 Brazil is the number two in the world when you talk about exports of iron.

Speaker 2 The fourth largest food producers of the world.

Speaker 2 With more than 200 million people in our population. And we have a lot of oil.
More than even some of Arab countries. Yes.
Way more.

Speaker 2 In a war, what would you like to have? Energy, oil. Iron to do the war machines.

Speaker 1 Food? Yes.

Speaker 2 To feed your soldiers.

Speaker 2 And everything.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 if you start a war now, I will tell you, the Brazil administration will be together with China against the United States.

Speaker 2 So, this, I think, it was a wrong policy, or at least you didn't, as administration, you didn't pay attention about Brazil. And China is doing with South America the same that they did with Africa.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 if you keep not looking carefully about what is going on in South America,

Speaker 2 maybe you are going to have more and more problems, more and more people going to the U.S. borders.

Speaker 2 If you look to Venezuela, about

Speaker 2 10 million people from Venezuela running away from the country. Some of them, they come from Mexico trying to come here by your borders.
Brazil is like eight times more

Speaker 2 bigger than Venezuela. I'm telling you that...

Speaker 2 If you do not, if Brazil turns itself a Venezuela, you will serve way more problems here in the united states and for sure not only in the borders drug dealers supporting terrorism it will be a risk for you sure

Speaker 2 eduardo borsnar poster thank you very much no thank you took it to the opportunity to talk to the all of the world about what is going on in brazil you have such more uh other other things happening only to finish

Speaker 2 Please search for the judges, Lujimila Lins Grillo, who is living a dirt judge living here in the United States too and Alicia Remora is freezed her account in Brazil so not even her salary he's receiving anymore and more and more Brazilians are going to ask for asylum here unfortunately but we think that the change can come from United States in this very important year

Speaker 1 I hope so thank you thank you

Speaker 5 The second half of the basketball season is here and the race to the playoffs continues on Prize Picks, the best daily fantasy sports app to cash in on your favorite sports. The app is simple.

Speaker 5 Pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to a thousand times your cash. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code FIELD and get $50 instantly when you play $5.

Speaker 5 That's code FIELD on PrizePicks. They get $50 instantly when you play $5.
Win or lose, you'll get $50 for just playing. Guaranteed.
PrizePicks, run your game. Must be present in certain states.

Speaker 5 Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.

Speaker 6 South Carolina's got everything. Natural beauty, trendy cities, but you might miss your next big adventure in a smaller town.

Speaker 6 We've got you covered on the Palmetto Porch, Discover South Carolina's official podcast. I'm Devin Whitmire.

Speaker 6 Come with me as I venture off the beaten path and learn about these towns from the locals who know them best. Check out the Palmetto Porch wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 6 And for more information, head on over to scpalmetoporch.com.

Speaker 1 So we thought it'd be interesting to learn more about the descending darkness in Brazil from someone who has tried to cover it and now no longer can.

Speaker 1 Paolo Figueiredo was a very well-known, one of the best-known television journalists in the nation of Brazil. He now lives in South Florida.
His Brazilian passport has been stripped from him.

Speaker 1 This is all since the election of Lula.

Speaker 1 And he joins us down in the studio to explain how exactly that happened. Paolo, thanks so much for coming.
Well, it's an honor to be here. I don't know how it happened, so I can't give you

Speaker 1 details. So just to be clear, you're fully Brazilian.
Yes. I was born in Brazil.
Grandfather was president of Brazil. Yes.
You're fully vested in the country. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're not just like some guy who showed up in Brazil to cover things.

Speaker 1 If I was in the U.S., I would say my family came in the Mayflowers. Exactly.
Okay, exactly. So how, but now you're living in exile in the United States without a Brazilian passport.
What is that?

Speaker 1 Well, I didn't even know that was possible because until I believe 2020, the only people the Brazilian government seized the passport was an international drug dealer. Yes.

Speaker 1 People were were looking for him and they had to seize his passport.

Speaker 1 But then I was working normally on a regular TV station in Brazil, like mainstream media, doing a conservative show on primetime. We had millions of people watching it.

Speaker 1 It was the most watched political show in the country. And on December 30th of 2022,

Speaker 1 I received a call from someone that worked on a big social media company saying, well, we received a court order from the Superior Court, court, superior federal court, the supreme court of Brazil,

Speaker 1 saying that we have two hours to take down your social media platform. And I had like, I don't know, 1.5 million followers there on that specific one.

Speaker 1 And then I was like, wow. I'm not going to say the name because I don't want to expose the person that informed me.
And I was like, wow.

Speaker 1 So I went live streaming and I said, look, apparently I'm going to disappear.

Speaker 1 But later, I found out because I got a call from a federal police officer saying, look,

Speaker 1 the order against you is broader.

Speaker 1 Apparently, they ordered to freeze all your assets in the country.

Speaker 1 They also ordered that we're going to seize your passport and you can't get in the country. And I was like, wow.
What was the crime? So I was never formally notified.

Speaker 1 So there's nothing anywhere that I committed any crime or that I'm being accused or charged of anything. But

Speaker 1 apparently, they just decided that was best for the Brazilian people not to hear from me.

Speaker 1 Well, that's totalitarian. It is.
But Brazil is now,

Speaker 1 well, Lula called it a relative democracy. But

Speaker 1 the fact is, we're,

Speaker 1 well, the things that are happening in Brazil only happen in dictatorship countries.

Speaker 1 Well, that's just an incredible story.

Speaker 1 But it was not only to me, I have to say that. So there's a colleague of mine.

Speaker 1 So 10 days later or 12 days later, well, after the January 8th happened in Brazil. And just for context, I should say.

Speaker 1 So you said that you were stripped of your platform and told that you were having your passport taken. But I was still on TV.
You were still on TV. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that was, well, that was like on the second to last day of Bolsonaro's presidency. He had been declared the loser in the election.
Right.

Speaker 1 But nothing had even happened.

Speaker 1 Nothing correct? Nothing happened. And I stayed on air.
But on January 8th, the revolt happened in Brazil, the protests, the demonstrations.

Speaker 1 And on January 9th, the Department of Justice opened an investigation against the TV station that I worked for. And when they did that, the

Speaker 1 owners panicked and they had to fire all the conservative commentators from

Speaker 1 and only the conservative commentators from the station. And they used to have, they used to be number one in terms of viewership.

Speaker 1 And of course now they're not doing well because they lost, you know what happens with the

Speaker 1 when they get rid of their stars, right?

Speaker 1 So, and that's, that's what, that's what happened in Brazil. And then I was let go and I opened new social media platform profiles that were shut down as well.

Speaker 1 And I've been co I've been opening new ones all the time. It's like my new YouTube channel already has, I don't know, 200,000 subscribers and people, they block it.

Speaker 1 And then people, I open a new one and people resubscribe.

Speaker 1 But you've never, just to be clear, you don't, you've never been charged with a crime? Oh, no. I haven't even been

Speaker 1 called to depose or anything.

Speaker 1 I've never received any communication from the Brazilian government. How can the U.S.
State Department not say anything about this? Well, because they sponsored it, right? The U.S.

Speaker 1 State Department sponsored what's happening in Brazil. So they're co-responsible.
The United States is, let me put it bluntly. The United States is co-responsible.

Speaker 1 to what's happening in Brazil right now.

Speaker 1 It's such a shocking story. It is, and it's not covered by the mainstream media in the United States at all because they're accomplices of what's happening.

Speaker 1 The New York Times, they pretend nothing is happening. They wrote a couple of pieces against the Morais, but very mild, and they're not reporting what's happening.

Speaker 1 But if they take one of the most famous journalists in a huge country, I'm not sure Americans understand how big Brazil is. It's like the United States.
220 million people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 220 million with massive area and the biggest territorial continent of the United States. Exactly.
So it's not an insignificant place. I mean, it's not Suriname.

Speaker 1 I don't understand how

Speaker 1 the new government can shut down a journalist because they don't like his opinions

Speaker 1 of his passport. And the U.S.
State Department doesn't say anything. Well, not one journalist.
We have at least three journalists. Actually,

Speaker 1 there's a case of a podcaster. It was kind of like Joe Rogan in Brazil.
This very liberal guy that was taken down as well, and he's living in the U.S. under asylum.

Speaker 1 And we have, I I would say we have dozens of Brazilians living on political asylum in the United States right now. It wasn't my case because it was already here, but many others, yes.

Speaker 1 You have Alan DeSantos, his unbelievable history. He was

Speaker 1 kind of like our Alex Jones in Brazil, more

Speaker 1 more

Speaker 1 vocal. Yes.
But still, he has the right of his opinions. I didn't agree with him all the time.
And they shut down his channel. It was a big company by then.
It had a studio, everything.

Speaker 1 The federal police raided his house with his wife pregnant, pointing guns at him. It was a nightmare.
And we're talking about a guy. He was like a family man.

Speaker 1 And he has been living here in the United States. And

Speaker 1 there's an open arrest warrant. He was on Interpol Red Notice List right now.
For what? For a crime of opinion.

Speaker 1 For

Speaker 1 the terms they use are misinformation and attacking the institutions.

Speaker 1 When I say, well, attacking means criticizing, right? You're public officials it's my duty as a journalist to criticize you for us yes you work for you for us i don't work for you

Speaker 1 so but but that's what happened to him and there's rodrigo constantino it was my colleague same station also very lots of viewers and and what i mean what american journalists these defenders of press freedom have said anything about this no except for glenn glean greenwall who yes who lives there who lives there in brazil and uh except for him i don't, which is, he's on the left.

Speaker 1 You know him very well. Oh, he was always on your show.

Speaker 1 But he was the one, the only one that spoke anything about it. Do you worry about him?

Speaker 1 Well, I think he should, and

Speaker 1 he should be worried. Although I think the government of Brazil would be more cautious meddling with a United States citizen.

Speaker 1 But Glenn won't pull back. I don't think so.
I think he's very, well, he exposes the NSA and the CIA.

Speaker 1 So he's very brave.

Speaker 1 And last question. How did you wind up in the United States? So this happened to you.
So I actually left Brazil when Dilma Rousseff, the lady that succeeded Lula on his first time,

Speaker 1 when she got re-elected, and I was,

Speaker 1 I'm out of here.

Speaker 1 My wife was pregnant. I didn't want to stay there and raise my kids in Brazil anymore because I knew what was going to happen.

Speaker 1 And then we were lucky because we had Jerry Bolsonaro winning and the country started going in a good direction. But we kind of knew the establishment wouldn't let that happen for a long time.
Right?

Speaker 1 So, having lived through this, what do you think of the U.S. presidential election now in progress? You cover American politics, I should say, also.
Well,

Speaker 1 it's a moment of decision for the whole Western world because I don't think there's a way Joe Biden can win fair square.

Speaker 1 It can be president if 80% of the country think you're too old and you're a large percent of the country thinks he's mentally ill, maybe

Speaker 1 senile, senile, like whatever the Department of Justice says.

Speaker 1 And you can't win a presidential race unless

Speaker 1 you cheat. Unless you cheat, unless you, it's not a fair and square election.
So what I think is going on right now for the whole world is the whole world is watching.

Speaker 1 people still matters in any way, Trump will be elected.

Speaker 1 If the establishment has all the power and democracy is dead in the Western world, and it was a good run, we had a good run for like a little over 200 years, that's very rare in the history.

Speaker 1 You study history, you know how rare that is,

Speaker 1 then democracy is dead.

Speaker 1 And I can

Speaker 1 tell that because this is exactly what happened in Brazil.

Speaker 1 And what's going on more and more and more, and you see that, is that the powers are shifting from the people to the courts, what people call juristocracy, not a democracy anymore, which is a great thing for globalists if you think about it.

Speaker 1 Well, let's say you want to change something

Speaker 1 in a democratic country, you have to pass a bill in Congress, and then the Senate needs to approve it, and the president needs to sanction it.

Speaker 1 And so if you're a billionaire, a progressive billionaire, and you have many here in the United States, and you want to change something in the society, let's say make the society more open,

Speaker 2 you have two options.

Speaker 1 Either you go through the very,

Speaker 1 very difficult democratic process. Tedious.
Tedious, yeah, it's very hard to control all that. And I think the founding fathers knew that, and that's why they made it this way.

Speaker 1 You can either do that or you can, well, let's say you get six Supreme Court just five, and then you can, I don't know, make abortion legal all over the country. It has been done.

Speaker 1 It has been done before. So if you're a globalist, powerful elite, you can circumvent democracy and go straight to the judiciary.
And that's exactly what happened in Brazil.

Speaker 1 And it can happen here. That's the most

Speaker 1 living, I've been living here for 10 years. I can tell the reality that we're living in Brazil is not that far away from America as you think.

Speaker 1 You guys think, oh my God, we've been a democracy for hundreds of years. And no.

Speaker 1 If you, what? You think if you had like six Supreme Court justice that were progressive appointed by Obama or Michelle Obama or who knows?

Speaker 1 What? You think your Supreme Court would be zealous about the Constitution, really?

Speaker 1 If you told me five years ago that Brazil would be in this situation, I would say, get out of here. No, that's too much.
They're not going to arrest a mainstream media journalist, take his passport.

Speaker 1 They've done it.

Speaker 1 It happened fast. Very fast.

Speaker 1 Well, you've wrecked my day.

Speaker 1 I appreciate your coming. Thank you.
And I hope we see you again.

Speaker 2 Thank you.