Why Are You Gay? Milo Yiannopoulos Explains.

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Of all the great memes and clips on the internet, Fat Kid Falls Off Bike being, of course, the top of the list, really in the last 13 years, 13 years this week, almost nothing created on this planet has surpassed in popularity or sheer hilarity an interview that took place on Ugandan television in December of 2012 on a show called Morning Breeze, the morning show of Kampala, Uganda, in which a trans activist, a woman who now identifies as a man, came on and was asked a series of questions by the host.

And if you don't know what we're talking about, here is a two-second clip that reveals the essence of the conversation. Why are you gay?

Why are you gay?

Let's play that again. Why are you gay?

It's still the funniest thing that's ever been on the internet. But why is it funny? And why does almost everyone find it funny? Left, right,

straight, gay?

Well, because it's kind of the key question. And it's kind of the question that no one in the United States is allowed to ask.
Why are you gay?

And of course, it's being asked by an East African with kind of a quaint, semi-colonial accent.

And, you know, conservatives can laugh at it. Liberals can laugh at it.
Really, this is the kind of the only way a white liberal in the United States could ever laugh at a black person.

If it's an African expressing non-PC views on homosexuality, why are you gay? And of course, people in the West laugh because the guy's an idiot. Why are you gay? We all know why you're gay.

Why are you gay?

Actually, we're laughing in part because we're not allowed to ask that question. It's settled, though no one's really explained what about it is settled.

If you were to ask the average American, why are people gay? They would probably say, well, they're born that way. And then if you followed up with, well, how exactly does that work?

They would have no idea and tell you to shut up. Because again, like so many myths or things that we think we know, we don't really know.

We can't really explain it, but we do know for dead certain we're not allowed to talk about it. So when some African morning show host in Uganda, wherever the hell that is,

asks it out loud, we can't help but laugh nervously. Why are you gay?

If you watch the whole interview, and actually it's worth watching because it's really revealing

both about Uganda and about the West, the first thing you notice is how polite everybody is.

That tone, why are you gay? Continued throughout the entire interview, which lasted over an hour. Just watched it.

And the morning show host, whether you like him or dislike him, was just unfailingly polite to the guest who was him or herself also unfailingly polite.

And they were just sort of talking past each other. The trans activist couldn't really explain why he or she was gay or whether gay was different from trans or what was good about being gay.

That was another question the host asked. Why would you want to be gay?

And the trans activist just like didn't really have an answer.

What was amazing was

the sweetness of it. It was not a hate crime, not even approaching a hate crime.
No conversation like that could take place in the United States.

But the host was coming from a position of total certainty that this is just weird and wrong. And that is the consensus in a lot of the world.

And it's certainly famously the consensus in Uganda Uganda.

And the consensus in the United States across both parties and pretty much the whole educated population is they're horrible because they think homosexuality is wrong.

And we know this because about 10 years later in Uganda, the legislature passed almost

unanimously with only, I think, one dissenting vote,

a law against something called aggravated homosexuality. Aggravated homosexuality, as of 2023,

is a a death penalty offense in Uganda. What?

Aggravated homosexuality? A death penalty offense? That's medieval. But how is it defined in Uganda? Well, if you read it and you can because it's online,

the Ugandan government defines aggregated homosexuality as gay rape of children, gay rape of the elderly who can't consent, people over 75, gay rape of people who are mentally deficient, and the intentional transmission of deadly diseases to another person.

So it's rape and murder, effectively, are

against the law, in fact, capital crimes in Uganda. Hmm.

It's a little different than advertised, but you would never know it

because the entire American political class erupted as one when this law passed in East Africa, thousands of miles away with a non-relevant trading partner with no real military, in other words, there's no actual reason to care about what Uganda does, but everyone here did care, bipartisanly.

And we're actually not going to expect you to take our word for it. We're going to go right to the CIA for the answer, meaning Wikipedia.
This is the Wikipedia description of the response.

President Joe Biden weighed in. This was two years ago.
This is 2023.

President Joe Biden condemned the law, calling it, quote, a tragic violation of universal human rights and, quote, the latest development in an alarming trend of human rights abuses and corruption in Uganda.

Corruption. So here, the Ugandans, the Ugandans

had the temerity to exercise a democratic process using a legislature elected by the people of Uganda to pass a law almost unanimously with one dissenting vote. And that's corruption.

It's almost as corrupt as the anti-gay marriage initiative in California that voters passed, but judges wisely struck down in the name of democracy. Okay, so that was Biden's response.

But it wasn't just Biden. Here's Senator Ted Cruz, the self-described conservative from Texas.
Here's what he said. He tweeted this.
He put this in writing, as he so often does.

And we're quoting, any law criminalizing homosexuality or imposing the death penalty for, quote, aggravated homosexuality is grotesque and an abomination. All civilized nations

should join together in condemning this human rights abuse.

So it's uncivilized to penalize gay rape or the intentional transmission of a deadly disease. That's uncivilized.

Seems kind of civilized. But at the time, nobody agreed.
This was grotesque, the kind of thing that only Africans would do. It's one step up from cannibalism.
Can you believe it?

Penalizing gay rape and the intentional transmission of AIDS. What do they think of next?

We'll throw you in a stew pot, savages.

You'll notice that Uncle Ted called it an abomination. And the Anglican Communion agreed.
Here's Justin Welby.

the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the rapidly dying Anglican Communion, which would include the Episcopal Church of the United States, the State Church of England.

He wrote to the Archbishop of Uganda, Christian brother to Christian brother, to express his, quote, grief and dismay at the Church of Uganda's support for the Anti-Homosexuality Act.

The head of the Church of England was filled with grief at the thought that rape would be banned and the intentional transmission of AIDS, et cetera, et cetera.

But it didn't stop with expressions of grief and condemnation and tweets from Ted Cruz. No,

It got right to the hard stuff, to the things that matter, meaning money and foreign aid.

Here's the World Bank. Immediately, the World Bank swings into action.

The World Bank announced it would halt lending to Uganda in response to the new law. No more lending.
No more money for you. We're cutting you off.

The financial institution noted that the act, quote, fundamentally contradicts the World Bank Group's values.

Ooh, what are the World Bank's values? That'd be interesting to know.

You know, in a sane country, contradicting the World Bank's, quote, values would be a sign of virtue, probably. Probably get a merit badge for that.
But the World Bank was outraged.

They know sin when they see it. Banning gay rape will tolerate a lot, but not that.

And then finally, Joe Biden in October of 2023, spun fully into a frenzy at this point, watching taking the lead of the World Bank, announced that Uganda would be expelled from the group of sub-Saharan African countries that benefit from tax breaks under the U.S.

African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA,

because of the country's, quote, gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, which violate the AGOA eligibility criteria.

So that was 2023. So bottom line, no more money for you.

What happened next? Well, Uganda didn't starved. Next year, there was a famine.

I mean, not to laugh at famine, but it's almost unbelievable. So

you ban

gay rape of children and the elderly and the mentally disabled, and we're going to starve you out. And boy, did they.
The United States shut it down. International aid institutions followed suit.

And the next year, Uganda had a famine that is still ongoing. 50% of children in Uganda Uganda today suffer the symptoms of malnutrition, stunted growth, anemia.

50%, half of all Ugandan kids are starving.

And of course, Uganda's never been a rich country. It's had a lot of turmoil.
Edi Amin was from there. Uganda has some problems for sure.

But

the year after the West collectively withdrew aid from Uganda, billions in aid, they have a famine. And it's all because

they banned gay rape of children. Okay.

So I guess the point here is

our values are pretty clear. We're for this,

and we're totally against questioning it. And if you do, we will hurt you.

So what is that?

Why are you gay? Maybe that's a question worth asking.

But of course, nobody has. And then you wake up one morning and you realize that supporting homosexuality,

which is very different from like not hating gays. No one should hate gays.

And most Americans don't hate gays. In fact, most of you met an American who did hate gays.

No, I ever have, at least in the past 30 years, no one hates gays. You know, a million gays, and some of them are awesome people, work for you or your friends or whatever.
It's not about hating gays.

It's about being forced to say this is an affirmative good.

And if you disagree with that, then you are affirmatively bad and we're going to stoke a famine in your country to punish you. That's literally where we are.

And some of us should have been paying closer attention as this movement never formally declared, not the gay rights movement, but the terror against anyone who opposes gay rights, whatever those are, worshiping homosexuality.

We should have paid closer attention. I'm going to refer you to one of the great clips of the entire Biden administration.

When people look back on the Biden administration, there will be, of course, an endless loop of him falling off his bike or identifying his sister as his wife or clips designed to show how confused and senile this poor guy was.

And those will, in a lot of ways, represent the administration.

But it's the moment of clarity, those occasional moments of clarity where Biden was really saying something on purpose because he meant it and he wanted to tell you what was important.

Those are the clips that actually define the four disastrous years of Joe Biden. And above all, I would argue, this clip tells you everything you need to know about the values of the U.S.

government, of our popular culture, of the West collectively. And once we understand the values, we can assess, are those the right values? And can a civilization continue with those values?

But first, the clip. Here's Joe Biden describing a trip to downtown Wilmington, Delaware with his dad in 1962.
I remember getting out of a car when I was trying to be dropped off at the local

city hall to get a job to be the only white employee in the east side of town,

in the neighborhood, in the projects

as a lifeguard. My dad was dropping me off so I could go around the block, I'd run and get the application.
And two well-dressed men kissed one another as I was opening the door.

And I hadn't seen that before. And I turned around and one walked off to the DuPont building, one walked off to what used to be called the Hercules Corporation.

And I looked at my dad and he just looked at me and said, it's simple, honey. They love each other.
It's just basic. There's nothing complicated about it.
That's how I was raised, for real.

It's like, it's the greatest clip ever. And there's just so much.
I mean, you could really spend all day getting Talmudic on it, just dissecting it and trying to figure out what it means.

I mean, there's so many parts to this. First of all, Biden's dad called him honey.

That's weird.

What dad calls his boy honey, honey?

Strange. And who knows what it means? Not implying anything, but it's weird.
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But the main thing to notice is this is 1962, that this supposedly happened in downtown Wilmington, Delaware. And in 1962, what was the state of America's views about homosexuality?

Not an individual gaze. This has always been a very, very tolerant country for all minority groups, actually,

by any global standard.

But the country's official views on like gay sex, for example. Well, it was a felony in 49 states in the summer of 1962.

The only state in which it was legal, Illinois, had just legalized it several months before. So having gay sex in the United States when Biden claims this happened was a felony pretty much everywhere.

A felony. Very few people ever went to jail for it because no one was really interested in enforcing it.

But the laws of the United States mirrored those of pretty much every country in the world from then going back maybe to Athens. Like people have always been against this.

It's always been officially discouraged by every single society. The question is, why?

That's worth a conversation at some point. Probably not just random bigotry.
If every society that we know about ever has had an official policy against gay sex or forms of gay sex.

Why? Again, can you explain it to me without getting hysterical? Maybe there's a reason there. Who knows? But that was the state in the United States in the summer of 1962.

So the idea that Joe Biden's drunk used car salesman dad turned to him, this brutish Irish guy who Biden has described many times, and says, honey, honey,

it's just love. It's okay.
It's just love. Two guys making out outside the DuPont building in downtown Wilmington.
It's totally normal.

It's so transparently absurd.

It's such an obvious attempt to graft modern values onto an antique setting that it's so clearly fake that amazingly no one laughed, but no one did laugh because no one was allowed to laugh.

But that's absurd. Ask anyone who was alive in 1960s.
You just use common sense. That didn't happen.
But notice how Biden frames it.

He said he was getting dropped off to get a job as the only white man working in the hood,

breaking the color barrier. It wasn't just a summer job.
It was a victory for civil rights.

And he was the kind of guy who would do that because his family had a long commitment to civil rights, as evidenced by his father's kind of casual acceptance

of homosexuality. It's just love.
It's just love.

Okay.

So what do we learn from that? Well, we learned that Biden's, of course, a fabulous. We knew that.

But in this this specific clip, he's lying for a reason to transmit to the nation its essential values. And at the very top of that list is we are for homosexuality.

That's number one. It's right up there with civil rights.
People get to vote. People get to have K-sex.
That's America. That's our culture.

Okay.

So it...

probably shouldn't surprise you that the self-reported incidence of homosexuality and its many varieties in the United States rose dramatically during that period. And here are roughly the numbers.

So about a little over 10 years ago, 2012, among young people in the United States, about 6% said, yeah, I'm not heterosexual.

So that would be in the range that, you know, we've been told for many years was natural, right? Maybe 10%, a little under 10% of people say they're not heterosexual and whatever.

you know, gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, whatever, but they're not one man, one woman, monogamy people at all.

So that was the number a little over 10 years ago. Last year, the number among young people was over 20%.

So a little more than a decade, you have a threefold increase, 300% increase in self-identified non-heterosexual orientation in a little over 10 years.

What are we looking at? Well, we're looking at demographic collapse, among other things,

right?

But what is the phenomena actually?

Where does this come from? Or to put it in Ugandan terms, why are you gay?

Well, let's see. We have been told for the course of my life that you're born gay.
It's like handedness or eye color or height. It's just something that you're born with.
God created you that way.

You are unique. Your iris, your fingerprints, your sexuality, they're all unique to you.

And that's something not to be embarrassed of, unless you're a white man, in which case, of course, slink away in shame, be denied admission to college or a job.

But for everyone else, your immutable characteristics are something that you celebrate, that you should be proud of. They not something that you chose.
They're not something you can change.

And this is the story that all of us have been told. And most of us, me included, sort of.
kind of believe that. Okay.

And if that's true, of course, you could never, ever show bias against someone on the basis of his immutable characteristics because that's wrong. It's also unchristian.
And that is true.

It is un-Christian to attack someone on the basis of something with which you was born, of course.

Really, no one has put this in clearer terms than the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana,

the former transportation secretary, and as of today, the leading candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2028, Mr. Pete Budijudge.
Here he is.

I can tell you that if me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade.

And that's the thing I wish the Mike Pencils of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me.
Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.

Take it up with God.

He made me this way. Notice the self-seriousness, the sort of JFK-esque gaze into the distance.
Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator. Old drama queen.
Yeah, maybe. Okay.

But that doesn't really answer the question. Why was Pete Buddha judge dating chicks for the first part of his adult life? By his own admission, he was dating women, like a bunch of women.

He was openly heterosexual, including in the U.S. military after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
So it was totally legal to be gay in the military, but Pete was still heterosexual.

So

the answer I think most people come to is, well, he was just ashamed of being gay. Like he couldn't be his true self.
He couldn't kind of let it out. Maybe that's true, though.

Those of us who were living in the United States 10 years ago remembered that there was no sanction against being gay. Tons of gay television is filled with gay people.

Those of us who worked in television aren't gay people, great gay people, actually, just being clear, really nice, good people all day long.

There's nothing weird about being gay 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when Pete Buttigudge was like, I couldn't come to terms with my own sexuality because his parents are so oppressive.

No, they were actually lifestyle liberals. They're big left-wingers, his parents.
So probably unlikely that his parents are like, don't be gay, son.

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Six. So it's a completely fair question.
You were dating chicks not that long ago, a bunch of them, and all of a sudden you're getting all self-serious about how God made you this way.

Explain how that works. It's a totally fair question,

especially since.

Pete Buttigiege's whole identity is wrapped up in being gay. His whole identity.
It's not like Pete Buttigiege is running for president because he's had such an incredible career as a public servant.

He fixed South Bend, Indiana. He's just a really good mayor.
Nobody thinks that. Ask anybody in South Bend.

He was just a really good driver in the U.S. military who's an awesome transportation secretary.
He was a joke as a transportation secretary. Did air travel get better under Pete Buttigiege?

Did the roads get fixed? Did anything improve in American transportation during Pete Budjudge's tenure as transportation secretary? No.

He wasn't just lame. He was awful.
And in case you don't remember, here's his signature achievement as Secretary of Transportation, identifying racist roads.

And the interstate system, the interstate system was built to keep certain groups in and certain groups out. So it was built on a racist system, correct?

Yeah, often this wasn't just an act of neglect. Often this was a conscious choice.
There was racism physically built into some of our highways. There was racism built into the highways.

There was rebar and a concrete substrate, and of course, gravel and then asphalt poured over the top. But mixed in there, probably in a drum at some point, was actual white racism.

It was mixed into the roads, and that's why people to judge had to tear them up.

That's it. That's a real clip.
That's not AI, as you may remember. Like, that's insane.
That was his tenure as Secretary of Transportation. Not

being mean to him, and it's like not even worth dredging that up again, except to make the point that being gay isn't just this thing about Pete Buddhajudge.

It's the whole point of Pete Buddhajudge.

It is the reason that he has the plurality of support from Democratic primary voters who are not black.

His support among black voters, they're more in the, why are you gay, Camp?

They're not impressed at all. In fact, I'm trying to do the math here.

I think his support, Pete Buddhajudge's current support among African-American Democratic primary voters is, let's see, around zero.

So zero percent in that range, meaning nobody, like no black people. They're not going for it.
Why are you gay? You can almost hear them saying that.

But among white liberals, Pete Buttigiege's gayness, the fact he's married to a dude called Chason

and has somehow acquired babies somehow. How do you get babies? Just sort of buy them somewhere, whatever.
He has these babies.

And

he is the model of whatever, a modern gay man. That's the whole point.

He is a civil rights hero because of who he sleeps with.

Pretty amazing. So two, two obvious points to make about that.
First, do you remember when they used to tell us, we don't care what happens in your bedroom? Do you remember that?

We want to keep politics out of the bedroom. We want to keep politicians out of your bedroom.
This was a way to justify the Holocaust of abortion, of course. But the line sounded kind of appealing.

Yeah, politicians probably stay out of my bedroom. That seems fair.
Now, your bedroom is the whole point.

You've got politicians running on what they do in their bedroom. And on the Democratic side, succeeding.

Because that leads very obviously to the second point, which is there are a lot of rewards in store for someone in the Democratic Party, an ambitious politician, someone who really only cares about the goal, which in Pete Budajudge's case has always been becoming president.

Is it bad to come out of the closet and announce that you're gay? No, no, no.

That's like the only way you're going to get to the White House. That's the only way.
That's your ticket, being, quote, gay.

Huh.

so given that that's obviously true and given that this guy dated girls as an adult

it's totally fair to ask the question why are you gay like what is this

starting to think that maybe it's not genetic or entirely genetic and if it is show me the gene we've decoded the human genome

We can tell you where the gene for eye color comes from. Where's the gay gene? Maybe there is a gay gene, by the way.
Lots of things we haven't decoded yet. Maybe it's there.

Are you looking for it? Are you trying to answer this question?

No.

The whole game is to make you be quiet, ashamed, because it has something to do with sex. And what are you a creep? Focus on sex.
You're obsessed with gay sex. Sort of a variety.

You're obsessed with Israel. No, actually not.

But you're way up in my face about it.

And so I think it's fair to to ask you a couple of very simple straightforward questions foundational questions like what is this where does it come from why is it good why is being gay better than not being gay

and if it's not a hundred percent genetic

clearly isn't if you've had a 300 increase in 10 years probably not genetic

unless our genetics are changing at lightning speed unless evolution is a much faster process than Darwin ever reckoned

if it's not entirely genetic then what are the other factors?

And since apart from moral concerns or the concerns of human happiness, does this actually make you happy? And what does it mean to live as a gay person in the United States?

What exactly does that look like? Like, what's your life like?

How many people do you have sex with?

How are those unfair questions?

Since you're the one throwing it in my face and telling me I'm not allowed to be against it, maybe I'm allowed to ask the questions I don't really want to ask, don't really want to know the answers to.

But since you've made it the North Star of our moral system in the United States, since you're willing to starve an African country because they disagree with it, maybe it's time for me to ask those questions because you pushed me to.

On this and a lot of other issues, if you just back off a little bit.

If we could just return to the status quo of, say, 1985, where yeah, they're gay people, they're great, they're off, you know, whatever.

They're here, they're there, whatever, but they're not pushing gay sex on my kids in school. That's clearly not a good idea.
Tell me why it is a good idea.

And of course, it's a crime to intentionally infect someone with an infectious disease. And of course, it's, in fact, the hallmark of civilization

to make rape illegal, gay or straight. What?

But since you blew up all those previous assumptions and now made them illegal,

Uganda made this crime punishable by death. You made their law law punishable by famine.
So who's more serious about it? You are.

Since you did all of that, how about we just slowly in a non-hysterical, obviously non-hateful way,

ask, what are we looking at? Why are you gay? Why is that a good thing? What is it exactly?

And there are a lot of people we could ask about this, but we thought, believe it or not, the most articulate person we know to answer these questions is Milo Yiannopoulos, who was very famous 10 years ago as a, what was he called, conservative provocateur,

running around the country, making the case against the liberals as an open, in fact, flamboyant gay man. And that was part of the shtick, right? It's like, we've got a gay guy too.

What are you going to say now?

You know, we've got black conservatives too. You can't call us racist.
We've got a gay conservative. You can't call us homophobes.

And so Milo was unleashed on the world. And then in literally one day, he was canceled, really destroyed as a person

in a sort of non-scandal that,

like so many of that period and of this period, sort of took him right off the stage. You never heard from him again.

But during the period when he was flitting around America on his dangerous faggot tour, spreading whatever it was, libertarian economics or something to the kids, it became obvious that this guy was actually really smart.

You know, even for those of us who were never that interested in the dangerous faggot part of it,

if you listen, you thought, well, this this guy's not dumb at all. He's actually very thoughtful,

very thoughtful,

high IQ guy who thinks about things.

So over the last couple of years, during text conversations,

I became aware that Milo had decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore.

That's kind of interesting. I didn't know you could decide you didn't want to be gay.
And then you read about it.

And it turns out there's a whole industry movement and laws designed to prevent you from deciding not to be gay. Huh?

Parts of the United States have banned conversion therapies. You're not allowed to talk to a psychiatrist about not having same-sex attraction.
Wow. What is that?

It's like once you're in, you can't get out. It's like mandatory gayness.
What the hell are we looking at?

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And so it seemed worth a sit-down conversation with Milo Yiannopoulos and just ask him sincere questions like, what is this? Why did you decide to change? What's it like changing?

What does it mean to be gay in the United States specifically?

And so that conversation follows, and we hope you enjoy it. You don't need AI agents, which may sound weird coming from ServiceNow, the leader in AI agents.
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You're really nice to do this. I'm glad you came.
I want to begin with.

No, I'm actually really interested. I'm interested in this topic.
I've never been interested in it, but I want to begin by asking you. It's icky, isn't it? It's icky.

Well, sort of and personal, but you know, it's occurred to me, particularly when I have interviewed Republican politicians, particularly neocons over the years. Homosexuality comes out, comes up.

Well, I've always wanted to say in a Ugandan accent. Are you gay? Why are you gay? So let me ask, are you gay? Were you gay? Like, what is gay? Nobody's gay.
Nobody's gay.

After that clip, which is the best thing on the internet, he changes the question, the interrogative to a declarative. He says, why are you gay? And she starts, you know, it starts talking.

He says, you are gay.

It becomes a statement. And this is where he goes, this is where he loses me because

nobody is gay.

We've been encouraged to think of this. It's an icky subject.
Like straight men don't want to think of it. No, no, it's okay.
I mean, it's reached. You invited me.

Well, I invited you because I have not, you know,

not wanted to be engaged with the topic at all. I don't have strong, super strong personal feelings about it, but all of a sudden

it has become like a defining fact of the West that we have a huge gay population. Like, what does that sodomy be? But no one wants to talk about it.
Giving aid

with strings attached. So I was told, what metaphor am I reaching for strings attached?

Yes, you can, but only if you have a gay pride festival. Right.

What is that?

Exactly. What is that? Yes, it has been.
And all of these things, and

with the collapse in people identifying as trans, you're beginning to now see what some of us have always known about homosexuality, which is that this is a product.

I mean, there are some people, obviously, who were probably always going to be gay. Tammy Bruce.

But, you know, like maybe she might be the only real lesbian. She might be the only real lesbian.
I believe when Tammy Bruce tells me that she was only ever into women, I believe her.

You know, and I like her, by the way, I think she's great. But she's like the only real lesbian.

With gay men, which is completely different,

we see the numbers go up, the numbers go down. This is not without some change in environmental factors, this doesn't make sense if we believe the old lie born this way.

If we believe what was in fact invented in the 1980s as a public relations strategy born this way. So, what happened back in the days?

Gays were in the 80s and with AIDS and and all the rest of it wanting to

be out and proud and to wear their sins on their sleeves. And somebody came up with this

idea

which caught on and worked.

It was twofold. One is, well, what if we say that being gay is like being black or being a woman? Yes.

Then they're a bigot. We're not weird.

And so it takes the religious, the moral majority's sinful lifestyle choice argument and it screws them because now they're saying like you're wrong to be a girl or you're wrong to be exactly it was invented it was invented wholesale by the activists in the 1980s and the second part of it was um and this is in a book called after the ball which is kind of defined how gay activists were going to um

uh

well it really it was very influential because it it was really the book that told gay activists how to get this revolting sin that most people don't even want to think about up front and center family friendly and ultimately to the state where we let them adopt children

which is a whole thing we'll get into and that was don't talk about bodily functions don't talk about effluvia just talk about love Just talk about love.

Talk about it in terms of love, like love is love, love wins.

And we see this to the present day. Never talk about, you know, the stains on the sheets, the promiscuity, the drugs, the glory holes in Berlin nightclubs.

Never talk about any of those things because those things will repel women. And you need moms with gay sons to affirm their homosexuality.
And so what is that homosexuality?

Long answer for a short question, I understand.

In almost every case, and in certainly in every male case, it is a trauma response. It is not a sexuality.

It is not part of what you are or who you are or a component of your personality or a function of.

It is a set of behaviors that is

that emerges in people with a number of very easily identifiable common etiologies. One of them is

well so for instance

among gay, excuse me, among black and Jewish Americans, they report statistically significantly higher rates of homosexuality. Why could that be?

Overbearing moms and absent dads, or in the Jewish case, nebish fathers. And, you know,

you know, like Jewish,

my Jewish friends, I always call their marriages are like lion taming, you know, where you have a sort of nebbish, scholarly, bookish dad and a larger-than-life mom who, you know, one day decides she's going to be a rabbi.

You know,

that, or in the black community, of course, just the fatherlessness.

And it's why, why, if you're born this way, if you don't have some other better explanation, could it be the case that there are more gays among black and Jewish populations?

Well, something's going on here. Why are we getting more trans and more gays and then less gays?

Why? Because this is, in fact, a symptom. In fact, this is a product of something.
It's a result of something.

Well, this was Freud's position, which was kind of conventional wisdom for the better part of 100 years, that this was a response to the environment, and particularly to the relationship with the mother that a young boy has and a relationship with his father.

I mean, this was, this was like, people just assumed that was true when I was a kid. They were not gay haters or homophobes.
That just, that was a state of knowledge on the subject.

One of the, one of the only things Freud got right was that.

And it's funny that, you know, the way that that's actually in line with the Catholic Church teaching and now has become, now you see the

terminology in the medical industry has begun to change as well, because, you know,

now gay people are sort of saturated everywhere.

You know, like when you get a, it's kind of like America, you get a whole country full of people who are very similar, but all think they're really, really individual.

that's deep ps yeah you know i do know what that looks like and and and and you know sort of america is a very faggotized country in all kinds of ways that's the technical term um

it's you have to if you want to know the truth about homosexuality you've got to go to black youtube uh and listen to the girls

how do you get to black youtube by the way um well you know it's a sort of tumbling uh it's a tumbling kind of uh thing you find one good video by somebody who's like

steph carry you're faggotized attached

sorry and then

and then you know you'll tumble through the algorithm I'll send you some links I'll post some links on my Twitter and you'll I don't know if I dare but that but you're saying that's the more honest YouTube it's the only honest YouTube it's the only honest anything um because uh you go past the churches and you'll see you know the white homo demons stealing your man

and it's not the pastor who comes up with this stuff it's his wife it's his wife uh who's got this you know who who was trying to set her girlfriend up with somebody. And that was all great.

But he went off with a dude, which is, you know, like, even, which is sort of equi

distant for them from going off with a white girl or whatever. But no,

the only honest place where

people will just be like,

did it, fagotaz, you know, and then they'll go. And then

amazing. LeBron, faggotazz.
And they'll go through it all. I mean,

for me, the nipless ultra of this genre would be

Black China's Mum. Do you know who that is? No.
Of course you don't.

You remind me of a line from Black Adder sometimes, you know, because you have this sort of like lovely kind of like ingenue kind of thing that you do.

And it's like, well, no, I've just, I don't know anything. But do you remember that line from Black Adder? Like slumbering altogether who claimed never to have heard of the Beatles?

No, but I get it. He's talking about high court judges.
I've never actually heard of Black Adder before, so I.

You're kidding. I'm actually not what

i don't even know what you're talking about but that's okay it's not about me i'm just trying to see how stephen fry and rowan atkinson got famous you don't know black i don't know there are huge gaps i'm not i'm not a knowledge baby jesus and the orphans well you say this yes but anyway look so so so tokyo tony is her name and she's anyway you can look google tokyo tony that's you're into black everything um anyway she's great there's a whole i mean i mean youtube now the only interesting bits of youtube that that still get views are like these black shows.

They're like, oh, these massively overproduced shows with these incredibly elaborate sets, and they've got like, you know, 43 people live watching, but the archives and the clips go crazy. Anyway.

Man, I've got a series of delights ahead of me. Well, you don't have many black people on the show, so you've got me instead.

I'll be your African-American contingent. I'll introduce you to these things.
So no, I'm kidding.

So, so

you're describing a world into which a lot of conventional propaganda has not yet filtered.

Or they're resistant to it or something. It's interesting because why are you gay? Are you gay?

The origin of

the born this way I've just described or just explained.

The reality is that these communities who experience this problem a lot, right? The black community, particularly because of fatherlessness, a lot of gay black kids, there's just a lot of them,

have this very blunt and truthful...

I mean, look,

looking at me now, it's impossible to imagine that I used to be a homosexual.

It hadn't entered my mind. No, but...

I knew you during your flaming stage, so

I had heard.

But, but, but there are so many like...

flaming young black men in America today, especially.

And this is a problem this community is dealing with. And they don't, you know, black America is like commendably impervious to a lot of the

woke PC language stuff. You know, like very creditably skeptical of vaccines.
Yes. They won't go along with a lot of the stuff like, you know, the proposition, whatever in California, gay marriage.

Why? It's black women who are like holding on the fault. That's why I love Candice Owens so much.
You know, the ungovernability of black women is the only thing that might possibly save America.

You know, as embodied in our friend Candice, who is just like, you know, she's ungovernable in the best possible way. She's not going along with it.

She isn't. To put it mildly, yeah.

She is not going along with it. And Candace is a very beautiful, polished, you know, intelligent,

sort of

microcosm of a trend that you see everywhere in Black America now, which is like, ain't doing that, ain't doing that, definitely ain't doing that.

Wow. And it's very interesting.
So, so

they will be very resistant to this stuff.

They kind of intuit what white people, I think, have forgotten because, you know, we're just also like bombs of weakened, demoralized, and like kind of overburdened with this nonsense.

The truth is that

homosexuality and in particular, conversion therapy, is the first thing upon which the liberals tried what they later did to Trump, which is just this

wall of fake news, misinformation, propaganda. It's the first time...
I mean, there's other examples around wars and things like that.

But when it comes to social issues, it's the first time I think the press just says, oh, hell, no. Well, except they didn't do that because they're white.
But, you know, they said

sometimes I lose the characters, get confused.

I'm going to put Rwanda away. No, so

the first time that the media decides this is a social issue we care about enough because we don't lose our gay friends,

that we're going to just lie.

and demonize and give the full fake news treatment that we later saw in its most sophisticated form leveraged praise god unsuccessfully against trump again and again and again right um so so they start off with this with this you know you were born this way heiny you are born this way heiny you are beautiful whatever you are no you're like that because you got raped by a priest or you're like that because your mom was overbearing and your dad wasn't around or you're like that because you failed to form um uh a platonic stable attachments to other men as a child.

For some reason, maybe you didn't have a good male role model or whatever. But there are a relatively small number of identifiable and repeated etiologies that mark somebody out as being, you know,

vulnerable to this. And you look into the histories of gay people, they will all deny it.
They say, no, that's just me. But it's not.

And they know, they know, because I knew, and they know, and I talk to them privately when there's no cameras that I could squeeze it out of them. Eventually, that you get there.

Yes, there's something about their sexual activity they know isn't right. And it's not just in the technical sense that the sex is sterile and therefore can never be part of

the holy sacrament of marriage because it can't be co-procreation with God, right? Yes. Co-procreation with God, meaning

you make a physical body with your wife, but then God puts a soul in.

And that's why it's the most precious sacrament because you do the others, you do your confirmation, the rest of it, but it's leading up to you getting to make something with God.

Right.

Which is the real reason that Lucifer is so mad because the angels can't do that, right? The angels don't get to participate in creation with our Lord, but every single human being does.

And you feel that too when you have kids. Even if you don't know what it is, you feel there's something supernatural going on here.
This is going to sound completely pathetic, but

I have

some kind of pathetic simulacrum of it. Now I've become a cat dad, just in the terms of like caring for something helpless.
Yes.

And it's bringing out of me something that I know is going to lead to fatherhood because I'm responsible for this being

that loves and laughs and they do, you know, and, you know, and requires regular, not just maintenance, but affection and to be tended to and loved. Like I love dogs.

I'm like, I used to be more of a dog guy, but

I live in a house on the National Register of Historic Places, so I can't have dogs.

And

so I just, I got a cat one day, you know, just because just because somebody found it in an engine. And I was like, I'm so alone.

So, you know, I said, sure, I'll give me the, give it, give give it a, give it a, give it a damn kitten. And at that point, I wasn't sure I was going to drown it, wear it

or nurture it.

But I was just like, oh, okay.

And being responsible for shaping the personality, which anybody who has animals, who loves animals knows that is 100% real,

responsible for shaping the personality, nurturing that.

being into either being a parent itself or just into being a companion or to being the best that it can be, right?

It's bringing something out in me, you know, that wasn't present when I was having a lot of what most people would regard as, well, what homosexuals would regard as very desirable kind of sex, you know, with a particular kind of person or whatever.

So this, you, you get to the base of it and

you get to the heart of it if you're sort of one-on-one with a gay, but they will, they won't just talk about the emptiness of their life or the fact that the sex is sterile or whatever.

They will know that there's something not quite right. And so

at something that was not quite right. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Oh, yeah.
Okay. Big time.

So, you know, there's that moment when your mind is flooded and it's all you can think about. Yes.
And it's all that you can,

you, you got to get it out because if you don't do a line or have a smoke or do something, if you don't.

If you don't get it out, it's just going to be all that you can think about for the rest of the day. It's just driving you crazy because it floods your mind.
Yeah.

I've been addicted to one or two little things, you know.

And I realized my sex works the same way. Yeah, I believe that.
I realized that when I was on a plane,

I'm sitting down, you know, hey, team one A, I'm sitting on the plane. I'm like, yeah, I'll have a gentle tonic girl.

And then, you know, like a basketball player, well, not basketball player or gay nerds, but like a football player would sit next to me.

Like it would take hold of me. There were times I had to like go to the bathroom and like, you know,

because I, because I had to get rid of it because it was, it was taking hold of my mind. It sounds like a demon.
Yeah. Because it's what it is.
I joke, I say Gorgoroth the semen demon.

You know, he comes out the way. He doesn't visit me very often anymore.
You know, but it's like. It's totally real.
I mean, that stuff is all

real.

But I realized that. So I don't do cocaine anymore, but I, you know.
It'll shock people to learn I used to be a bit of a cokehead.

You know, when I was,

you know, that rush of dopamine, yep the rituals associated with it as well you know i was like oh my god that's that's how i feel about sex and that's that can't be right it can't be right no it's a it's literally a i'm not just talking about gay sex but any that is literally a perversion yes and it's and it is a demon and it's also other things too because these things go hand in hand you know may i ask how in your own if it sounds too personal how did you wind up there now okay i think we are

um no but

i just just told you I wanked on U81726.

I cracked one out in the bathroom.

People are never going to sit next to me on planes again. I think we're good.
Anyone who's ever been, well, I drank alcohol in the morning. I mean, you know, anyone who's ever been possessed.

I'm British. That doesn't count.
No,

but I'm Jimmy. Give me a real one.
Anyone who's ever been possessed by an obsession knows that it can totally destroy your behavior.

We spend so much time talking in our society about, you know, gay and it's all good, of course. You know, gay is good and gay rights are good.

In fact, they're the marker of human rights, which are the only human right, really.

But

this is the only human right people still care about. Oh, I'm your right to be sodomized, your right to wake up in the morning, like, and you're like, oh, okay, you're, you're ready to go, are you?

And hear that voice in your mind. And it's not a sultry voice.
It's not a sexy voice. It's go and get it.
It's, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's Gorgoroth.

Anyway, sorry, I'm interrupting you, but

that's dark. I've thankfully never, it's one of the few problems I don't have, but I

get it.

That's why grinders are so dangerous, you know? It's just like within 20 minutes, they can be in the living room.

You know, I want to ask you about that, but first, let me ask you about your own life because you never get to ask, you know, everyone's telling you how proud they are to be gay, and that's great and all that.

But to sin, by the way, pride is a sin. Well, I agree with that, but

you never get to ask, like,

how did this, how did you start being gay? Like, get specifically described with, you know, the way I remember PG way, right?

if you insist no the way I remember we've done enough I know the way I remember it is I just did it to piss off my mother but that's not true I think that's that's self-mythologization you know like I did I did take a lot of drug dealers home when I was it was were you close to your mom

when I was in high school she married so so so I'll answer your question I'll skip back first let me let me do that first so my dad was in organized crime

funny, charismatic, brilliant.

There are things about like

maybe Alex Jones that remind me of him a little bit, just in that kind of like, just in manner, you know,

like a bit of a bruiser, but with a heart, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like he's a bad guy with a heart of gold. Yeah, you know, like, I've known a few.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, like, I cleave to that kind of personality.

It reminds me a little bit of the good bits of my dad, right?

But there was another section which Alex does not have, which, which, which was that, you know, he was a bad guy and I saw him do really bad things to people.

I would come down, I told told this story before, but I would come down sometimes, the kitchen door would be closed and I would hear, you know, Nikki, Nikki, I'm giving up a life of crime.

I'm turning over a new leaf. I'm not going to do anything that's going to give me any more than 18 months.

You know, it's funny, but it's all about goals, Milo.

Yeah.

But he was a bad guy and I saw him do things that really frightened me.

And,

you know, he was in pubs and nightclubs in a,

you know, running, running the clubs and the security and sort of like, you know,

he's gone now, so I can say it, laundering millions. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, between those two, you know, like the security, these security guards are on $120 an hour, huh? Yeah, yes, yes, officer.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Aren't you? Tell them it.
Tell them what you're on. It's like 110, 120, 120 now.

So he used to let me sit in the booth and like do the stamps.

And I would watch people go in and I'd watch the behaviors of like low socioeconomic white working class, like in their 20s, just, you know, just drinking, effing, you know. And, and,

and then I saw some of the things my dad did, and they would start with that joke. They'd start with that very charming joke, they'd start with that alluring joke.

And my dad had like a degree in, he had, my dad had a master's in fine art. He was a great sculptor and painter, but that, but that was the charming bit of him.

The dark bit was, you know, like he would say to people,

can I use bad language on the show? Yes, yes, you may. Because you can bleep it.
but my dad would say like

listen just because you're in a wheelchair don't give you the right to be a cunt uh and

he would grab the wheelchair spin it around and like walk people up to to you know like to parking lot edges and stuff like that and i'm sitting in the car like

um you know or he'd go collecting yeah which means protection rackets and he would um

and he would uh um

you know i would overhear like julian can you take your glasses off please

I was the one to get glass in my finger when I poke your fucking eye out.

It's very charming, very funny, like very tiny soprano, kind of like that kind of ilk, you know.

But I saw some of it. And I think maybe somewhere in my head, I was like, yeah, if that's being a man, I think I'm out.
Because I was a child, I was frightened.

And then my mother left him and married a new guy. And he was very like.

He's sort of a nice guy now, but

he would go through all my stuff.

Like if I had papers you know if i was reading something for school or whatever he would like when i was out go through every page and just sort of leave it like this just that i knew that he'd been in there you know and that kind of like invasive like like just horrifying like you know it was just for for a very sensitive artistic child like me um you know you know already on my way then you know having i had a much larger than life grandmother who was like you know egging this stuff on and and by this time i had had some interactions sexual interactions with a roman catholic priest uh who's dead now it's been dead for a long time but that had obviously you know, that fed into it as well.

Wait, wait, stop, stop.

That obviously fed into it. Right.
Well, if you're rapping the last,

yeah. Well, yeah.
Also, the molestation. No, but really for me, this is what's important to do the other stuff first before you get.
Oh, and I was raped by a priest.

But this sort of psychological torture

as I experienced it was, you know, sort of like, so I had no private space anywhere. And I knew that all the men in my life were just not things things I wanted to become.
Yes.

And then I cast my, see, if you let me get to it, then I cast my mind back to a lovely old rich man in a frock, Father Michael.

And I, you know, and I, yeah, and I, and I, who had not been like that with me.

And

one of the things that got me into trouble 10 years ago was when I said I felt like the kind of the aggressor in that situation. I didn't know what bad stuff it had done to me.

And at the time, I didn't.

You know, I made a couple of jokes that got GOP Inc. uh hot and bothered because they're all faggots.
Um

they weren't they weren't happy about the, some of the truths that we're talking about today kind of toppling out, you know. Um,

and so

these things combined

the having what I perceived to be at that time, I perceived as a child to be consensual sexual experiences with an older man who was a kindly

sweetheart. You know, he was, I think of him now as a harmless old queen, you know? Of course, what he was doing was not harmless.

Well, you have a right to any opinion you want about the experiences that happened to you. Apparently not.

I've been retired for some time as a result.

Well, I continue to believe that people are allowed to formulate their own opinions about their own lives. I think you should be able to talk about your rape, however you like.

And agree with that. And not necessarily have to go on live international television and apologize for it like I did, but I'm not better.

So

fortunately, I carved out a much, I have a new kind of career and a new life now that I much prefer, which is more satisfying, lucrative, blah, blah, blah. We'll do it later.

So I haven't gone crazy like so many of my friends.

And it's funny watching them because I see some of the, in the way that their personalities have become kind of empty and shrouded and become filled with wickedness, I see some of the things that I have been working over the last 10 years to get away from.

that created this sexual behavior.

They've become facetized.

Well, there does seem to be

a connection, but it does,

you know, the incidence of closeted homosexuality on the right is like

overwhelming. It's like way above what you would imagine is statistically probable.
Three straight guys on the right.

It's like Alex, you, and I have a floating wild card, just in case I forgot anybody.

What else is there? I mean, maybe the Tates, but who else is there? What is that?

I don't understand that. There's such a long,

there's such a long relationship, a long happy marriage between conservative politics and homosexuality. And it's easy to joke about it and say, oh, it's

all of the bells and smells and frocks of the religious dimension to it all, or it's the pomp and circumstance of power.

The New Testament is really tough on homosexuality. So I don't see it as a, that's not, certainly not a Christian thing.

It's not a Christian thing, but of course, it's easy to understand with the sort of obscene, obese heresies of the type that obtain in this country. I mean,

in a country where prosperity, gospel can thrive,

who would be surprised, right? It's not an authentic face as we would know it. I sometimes teach you about your denomination, but

Episcopalian churches is as close to us as it's possible to get and was designed to be a mirror to high Anglicanism, which was indistinguishable from Catholicism.

And, you know, at its, sorry, at its best, it's it's a very similar

creed, you know, to, and, and with very similar style and similar beliefs, you know. Yeah.
So, but, but, but as soon as you wander away from that in America, it's just like mentally.

So, but what is it, and I'm not attacking anybody, and I never want to out people because I don't, you know, it's not my business, right?

I've never done it. And I mean, maybe I live, I live to out people.
I live to out people on which subject, Corey Booker. Um, I left.

Did you say, But what is that? Why is there, why is it so common on the right? Well, of course, on the left too, but on the right with closeted gaze. Like, I don't get that.

It's an interesting question. I've never heard a really good answer to.
I'll be honest with you.

I suppose I should have a good answer to that, but I don't. And I think, but I think if it's about anything, it's about the exercise of power over others.
Yes. Because I feel that.

I have no idea exactly why that's true, but I feel that that's true. What's the worst thing about magic?

It's not that you can turn a person into a frog or you can make yourself look more beautiful or you can whatever. What's the worst thing about magic?

Is that it robs others of agency, that you can make them do things they don't want to do. The worst and most sinister bit of magic is that you can

trick someone or compel someone against their will to fall in love with you or to or to throw themselves off a cliff. That's kind of slavery.
Exactly.

The most frightening thing about magic is its ability to compel the wills of others.

And that's what I think homosexuals are seeking when they, because they feel so powerless in their own lives and have this understanding that they are broken people without agency over their own sex lives, over their bodies, over that down there.

Like, I don't even have control over me, but I'm damn well going to have control over you. That's, I think, a lot of it.
And so, if you, if you dovetail that in with the.

I know you're telling the truth here. I don't fully understand what you're saying, but it comports with a lot of what I've seen.
I feel as though

if you you are a person who intuits that you have a lack of control, of power, of agency over your own drives, your own desires, your own

urges, and even your biological, anatomical,

your physical responses. Like, I can't stop getting aroused by men.
What is that?

You're going to want to exercise power elsewhere over others. That's so interesting.
And

being sucked into the nexus of intersectional blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you might, you're going to be tempted by explicit magic as well as the implicit magic of whatever.

And so, you know, dovetail that with right-wing authoritarianism. And, and, and, and, and, and I have to say, I'm sorry to say it.
I must say it

some

dimensions in some respects, I can see that that might be something that attracts homosexuals to the Catholic Church, for instance. Um, just the illusion of being, being, a bishop.

Or National Review Magazine. Well, you know, which is...
You don't just say me. It's all right.
I'm happy to talk about

the Catholic element of it. I mean, the bishops are all faggots.
I mean, they're all whoopsies.

They're all

gays.

I like that one.

It contains within it a kernel of the sort of slapstick that I think we have to... One of the ways I got myself off it was

imagining myself in that situation as ridiculous. Like, I can't even perceive that I would do do something so ridiculous.

Like laughing at it became, because you know, laughter is the death of arousal, right? Totally exactly. I read this some, I read the, or I, or, or, or something like that went off from the book.

Anyone who's never been laughed at naked can tell you that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, never have. But

I haven't either.

No, but I mean, you know, like, it's, it's, it's, I think it's a favorite, famous, like, British, particularly a British like injunction, you know, that laughter is the death of arousal or whatever.

And

I just thought, okay, okay well how about if i start thinking about it as ridiculous because it is ridiculous i mean like you and the football team like it is ridiculous uh and so that's one of the ways i got somebody but but no this this this that is so true

uh

seeing themselves as powerless even to control their own bodies and knowing on some level i think homosexuals seek out those places um and you know you see almost

why you might want to bomb iran and venezuela yeah bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb what's gayer what's gayer i'm not saying he was practicing homosexual physically, but wasn't is there anything gayer than John McCain's like bloodlust?

Seen through this

or his protégés. Seen through this prism.
I mean, he's even got the fat friend. It's his daughter.

You know, like,

he even bred the fat best friend. You know, like, is there, is there a, is there a more ostentatious like fag hag in America than Megan McCain? You know, she hates herself.
She's fat. She's crazy.

She's every gay man's dream. Uh, you know, she can't dress.
Um, uh, you know, she, she's, she's, she's, why is that every gay man's stream?

Because they want to visit upon their female friends the cruelty they wish that they could perform on their mothers.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

They want to make her feel fat and ugly and ridiculous because that's what their mother did to them. And there was no dad around to protect them.
And their mother was just this overbearing, terrible.

You know, sort of the Jungian devouring mother.

All of this has been banned in the United States, so I I don't even think people are familiar with these concepts anymore. Right.
So I'll try to keep it simple.

Imagine like a female Lutheran pastor

or a female Jewish rabbi. And they're this like, you know, hey, it's great to grieve.

That's for a TV show, but

one of those, right? This is horrible, overbearing monstrousness that on some level, the homosexual knows is what's made him like this.

Because dad wasn't around so mom did it right this is why by the way this is why trans was so popular because it got parents off the hook if you've got a gay kid you know you did something but if your kid has a disease and was born into the wrong body well that's not your fault is it and you get all this sympathy and oh all your friends were like oh do you got a trans kid how tough are you no you got a faggot because you raised a faggot because you're a terrible parent uh you know that's what's really going on they want to avoid that so instead no i'm going to chop it

ding-dong off and say it's got a disease. Like, that's why it was so popular with single moms.

Amazing. Amazing.

that's why that's why trans was so popular with single moms um because it got them off the hook it means they didn't turn their son gay when they know they did they know they did they know they did and the sons know they did and the sons grow up being cruel to women

because of what mom did to them

So they're hostile toward their moms, even though most gay men I think had

been close relationships. Right, right, right.
But it's a toxicity.

It's a codependent relationship that they know is, they can't.

So sometimes they can't visit this this cruelty on their mom because they have this close relationship with their mom, but they do it on other women.

It's redirected, right? It's transferred onto other women because they love a mommy. Like, why would I do that? My mom, but on some level, they know that

she did that. She did that.

So

they force women into ever more uncomfortable and ever uglier outfits and throw them down runways on, you know, in 10-inch heels. Or they.

What? So you think the fashion industry is acting this out? Of course it is. I mean, what other explanation could there be for the intolerable ugliness of the catwalk?

You are blowing my mind on so many levels. I can't even.
I mean, sure, we used to have when society was working properly, you would go, have you ever seen Mrs. Arris goes to Paris? No.

It's a lovely movie about a char lady, a

housekeeper. Yes, housekeeper, yes, to Americans.

How do you know char woman? And you've never seen Mrs. Arris goes to Paris,

who dreams of one day owning a couture Dior dress, like the person she works for, right?

And she saves up and she saves up and there's calamities with her money and, you know, some boyfriend loses, whatever.

And eventually she manages to go to Paris and she manages to get the dress, right? And when society was properly ordered, there were these aspirational

beauty standards and these aspirational lifestyle goals that included gorgeous tailoring and beautiful

silhouettes for women that accentuated their

course characteristics. It's not like that now, is it?

It's not like that now? No, and it's funny. I don't know much, I don't know really anything about fashion, but I love female beauty, of course.
But you don't see any of it on the catwalks now.

Exactly. In fact, you see the opposite.
You see the opposite. You see, you see manufactured ugliness.
Gay men turning women into the demons they see themselves as.

You see, gay men, look at, look at

the most celebrated woman on the stage at the moment is the

Gorgon opposite Ariana Grande, whose name I forget now.

You know,

this Nosferatu, like black Nosferatu,

who seems to be sucking the life force out of poor Ariana, who's, I think, going to die within the next few weeks.

If you've seen that singer's physique lately,

she's sort of,

but this, this, this, this, this appalling apparition,

um, Cynthia, or something, I think. Uh,

of course, she's called Cynthia, um,

you know, with these, with these claws, you know, and you look at the silhouette and you're like, that's literally Nosferatu. It's literally Nosferatu.
And I know a gay man did that.

And of course, the gay man then put her on stage in Jesus Christ Superstar as Our Lord. Did you know that? No.
Have you seen it? You've seen the person I'm talking about, right? No.

Okay, well, you'll Google it later, but

it's this spindly, it's just straight up goblin-looking black woman.

I'm not trying to have like a

Roseanne moment, although she was right.

You know, whatever, but this woman is like, you know, like ugly by any racial status, just monstrous-looking, right? Just

what our mothers might have called deeply unfortunate, right? Yeah.

And practically circus-level.

And of course, she's the heroine of the billion-dollar franchise now, Wicked. And she's

and she's she's on stage as Jesus.

So it's an act of hostility, is what you're saying. Exactly, exactly.

And so

these gay men who feel the

will of Gorgoroth inside them, it's like, do it, do it, you know, and

turn these women into the demons they see inside themselves, you know, the demons they see acting on. This is a lot deeper than I expected

when I

texted you to have this conversation.

It's more than you would imagine from a guy wearing this t-shirt. No, it's not actually.
And by the way, can I say one thing that's bothered me for years?

When I was a child, there was a lot of creativity coming from gay men in the United States.

It's all gone now. I know.
And it's Dave Rubin is responsible. And not him personally, but I mean, like.
But do you know what I'm talking about? I mean, of course. And why?

Because a lot of free thinking. And I was related to one of them.

And I spent a lot of time in my house, lived under my house when I was a kid and gay, died of AIDS, you know, but, and had a lot lot of problems. But in some, but I will say,

creative, free thinking, like truly free thinking, but this Gorvid doll was like the archetype. This is Burkean.
There are no Gorvid dolls in gay world that I'm aware of.

They're all like conformists and

supporting the man. Like what?

The only ones these days are ex-gay.

But do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, and it's Burkean. It's because creativity arises out of order.
There has to be limits.

And if homosexuality is not proscribed as wretched and kept kept at the fringes where it belongs, creativity dies. And what do you get? Because you don't have those people playing with the limits.

You don't have the taboo breakers. You don't have the artists, the creatives living at the limits of society.
They're brought instead.

And I have to say, I think the gig community, such as this, is one of the least creative, most conformist elements of our society. I never thought I would say that.
Become the enforcers, just like...

They're the enforcers. They're the libertarian guard for Apple and Microsoft.
What the hell? Just like the white women of folklore who

are responsible for all evils, but they become like turbocharged Karens, you know?

And it's the white women who welcome in the white single moms typically,

but single moms generally, I think,

who bring in

a drag queen story hour. Because there's no gay people like banging down the door.
No, that's right.

There's no gay people like, excuse me. Can I come read your kids? To your mind, can I come read stories to your kids? Like, no, they're not.

They're not. But there are demons out there who will come do it if you invite them.
Because what do you have to do with demons? Open a portal. Open a doorway, you know? So

these women open the doorway and in comes,

you know,

three little pigs.

But the gays now have taken this role. They've taken the

mantle over from, you know, what we used to, I mean, we used to say, didn't we?

We used to say white single moms are the root of all evil, like as, you know, kind of half joking because of all the crazy stuff they support. But now it's homosexuals.

I have to be honest with you. I bear some responsibility for this because

it was me

10 years ago mainstreaming homosexuality into the Republican Party is the great regret of my life, more so than anything I've done to my own soul, which is a lot.

It's the great regret of my life

because it has given rise to horrors I never imagined.

Let me say Lennon said, you know, all revolutionaries come to hate their children, you you know, while the gay horrors that I've given birth to, Lady Marga, Nick Fuentes, I mean, they keep me up at night.

They keep me up at night.

Why did you mention Dave Rubin? What's his role? Well, because he is at the vanguard, along with a number of other gays in public life, of

introducing children into the equation. Because it's when you, when you, when you do what I did, which is like, gay is just like everyone else, you'd be a normal gay.

I remember, and this is the thing I regret more than anything else in the world, there's a video of Ross Matthews in 2017 on twitter saying so i came home and um landscapers have been in we're getting more citrus you can never have too much citrus and i uh people were asking me uh ross what do you think about this this milo guy and i'm like milo milo how low can you go i don't know who this person is better read it and he says i'm getting letters this milo guy he's resigning from breitbar or something and he says i'm getting letters from people who say,

you make it okay that I have a gay son because if he grows up, he doesn't have to be like Ross Matthews. And I was like, No, they should be like Ross Matthews.
They should be like Ross Matthews.

They shouldn't be like Dave Rubin, like you might not even know unless you watched him for a little bit.

Because this domesticity of homosexuals has killed all the things that were good about gays that made them like tolerable.

And instead has given them this grotesque parody, this simulacrum of domesticity,

which has, of course, in their never-ending hunger, expanded to include babies.

And now we have the Butigig couple buying black children. I thought you weren't allowed to buy people.
I thought. Oh, no, you can if you're homosexual.

But I thought that was called adoption or surrogacy or whatever, but you can buy them. I thought it was called slavery.
In fact, you have to buy them because it's and it's quite expensive. Um,

some online slave market, or it doesn't cover, no, no, no, it's it's the government. Um, uh, and

as you know, um,

but Dave Rubin has

like Frankenstein babies. Like he

mixed his effluvia with that of his husband. I mean, this is real.
This is physical.

Gave it a stir and hoped for the best. And

whichever one we get, we get, implanted it in some highly paid woman we'll never know the name of, the real mother of those children.

And, you know, he and his, he and his, his, his

catamite are on, on, on the internet, you know, with these signs like, it's coming with these two dates. And I'm like, yeah, your damnation.
That's the date you're counting down to.

The date you're.

How is that conservative? Oh, because it's family, you see. Because it's

the sleight of hand that's going on is they're like, well, gays are just like everybody else. So we should behave like everybody else, which means we should have kids.

And if we can't physically have kids because our sex is this like demonic, sterile horror show, then we'll buy them, and then we'll look like we've got it.

I mean, that's that's how bad it is, that's how bad it is. And so, you have the

I love,

I don't know if it says anything about Republicans versus Democrats, but but you have like Dave Rubin, who for whom buying a child is not good enough, it must be his own, you know, like like the

conceit of that. So, on the right, you've got this

sort of

techno-conceit Franken baby.

And on the left, they adopt blacks.

You know, you've got these two

wispy, wiry faggots who adopted two black babies.

I mean, isn't Buddha just the most interesting character of our age? Like, I mean, it doesn't look like it. It looks like an intensely boring homosexual, like everything gay people shouldn't be.

But it's so interesting the fact that, I mean, clearly he wasn't gay. like at the beginning.
Well, he had girlfriends. Right.
So he wasn't gay, but he made himself gay.

I made that point because actually I had gay men who worked for me who were more in tune with this than me. I'm not in tune at all.

I just didn't, I thought Peter Putajudge was a joke, but they said, well, he's not really gay. And I was like, no.

So, but what does that mean?

Well, his sexuality, like all, like all homosexuality, is a function, a product, a symptom. What is his homosexuality a symptom of? It's of his vaulting ambition.

Butij timed it it perfectly so that post-Obama,

the gay guy with the black kids, perfect presidential candidate.

So to the, I think to the heterosexual brain, it's like, are you really saying a guy would switch his, quote, sexuality in order to get a better job?

Yeah.

Yeah. Women do it all the time.

Lesbianism has got nothing to do with male homosexuality. Just look, everybody knows they got a college girlfriend who was a, they got a girlfriend who who was a lesbian in college.
Yeah. Everybody.

Like,

you can barely find a woman who hasn't played around with a woman.

Queen Victoria didn't believe that this was sex or that two women would do that with one another. And she refused to accept that women even did that very wisely, realizing that lesbianism wasn't real.

And so lesbianism wasn't illegal in Britain for a long time when male homosexuality was. But

female sexuality is known in the studies to be far more malleable. Women go backwards and forwards to

men all the time. And

lesbianism is

a social and political decision. It's a series of social and political decisions.
I mean, women want companionship, they want stability, they want safety.

They can find that in a woman, you can find that in a butch dyke just as easily as you can find it in an American man these days.

I'm sorry, you know, at least she can cash in her Harley-Davidson. What have you got?

You know,

but

sorry.

That leather jacket's got go for something.

You know,

that warehouse full of eyeliner you've got.

No,

I joke, but only slightly. We've seen women do it.
Seen women do it. They do it all the time.
They choose to be lessons all the time.

So you don't find it. You don't find the...
I realize it sounds extreme and implausible. Well,

to me, anyway, it's like really. So we're dealing with a sociopath here.
We're dealing with somebody who's entirely divorced from his own emotional, from his own feelings, right?

We're dealing from somebody, we're dealing with somebody who will do anything, go anywhere, be anything.

I mean, are you telling me, like, is it, is it so crazy that he would get a, that he would have a boyfriend and adopt these kids?

Is that so much more insane than a gay man living in the closet and having a wife and having sex with her and producing children with her? Is that so nuts?

Like, okay, so there'd probably be more sex involved. Fair, fair.

Isn't it just like that on steroids like is it so bonkers and that's where gay people should be by the way in the closet praying to get better um uh but but is it so wild it's not wild no you're right and i just hadn't thought of it that and and gay men have been doing that for centuries well i know i know a bunch of them right right now of course we well you work in and i used to work in uh conservative media and uh uh uh

It's all of them. It's everybody.
It's everybody. They're all faggots.
They're all gay. All of them are gay.
All of them are gay. Like everyone is gay.

I haven't said anything about it for like 30 years because of my just general Anglo-commitment to not get involved in other people's business, but it's so noticeable.

I just don't know what I clearly there's something going on here.

Yeah, I think it's the exercise of power over others as we talked about.

Really smart. But in this case,

the Butjiji, I find him fascinating because he's

misjudged,

but only slightly, what would be required to be the perfect presidential candidate, like in 2028, 2024, right? And he starts off and he's got girlfriends, he's in the military.

He's

living a normal, like American life.

And then

chasing.

I mean, like, if you want to, they say that ex-gays often go for like Near Eastern women because they're not sexually demanding and they look like boys from behind, you know, like some Malaysian girls, you know, when they come to have wives.

But isn't Chason kind of like the closest thing you can get to a girl?

Closest, you know, sort of if you need a simulacrum of a woman, you're like, flip him over, it could be a girl, you know?

I don't think I know what Chasin looks like.

Well, you're blessed. His husband is.

If you don't know that, then you won't know the expression aged out twink.

But

he's about as the most effeminate man that you could you could oh is that true yeah um not in the kind of like so so this whereas pete has that kind of fake radio voice like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so you know yeah yeah yeah so so you know um

and it is a fake voice because you can get you can find recordings of him earlier and and he's got more into it the more gay his life has become really yeah like the the the the bass diaphragms like yeah it's like talk from your stomach pete talk from your stomach you can imagine chasing before he he goes on stage.

Remember, babes, from your stomach, he's like,

from down here.

You can just imagine. I know.
Remember what Lindsay said? You know, the speech coach who taught him how to sound heterosexual. You know, like, whatever.
But no, no,

it's going down. It's like sinking.
It's like there's something in there.

It's like working its way through this achingly slow form of peristalsis.

Gradually finding its way down. Eventually, he's going to sound like Gorgoroth.

You You know, he sort of sort of already realizes his full potential.

No,

he's fake. He's not gay.
He's not gay. He's not gay.
There's a doubt in my mind. He's not gay, but he's performing homosexuality because,

including having the sex, you know, but probably not a lot of it. I mean, you don't imagine them, you know.

Well, I don't want you to imagine anything because I don't wish to leave an unpleasant taste in your mouth like that. But

I'll suggest to your viewers that it's not a particularly sexually active couple,

which might also explain how it's possible for somebody to do that. Right.
In the same way that

a DL gay guy wouldn't be a particularly sexual husband.

Are gay marriages monogamous?

That's funny.

Oh, you mean it?

Well, I sense that they're not having known some.

But are any, I guess is what I would ask. I mean, I think you get that sort of elderly antiques dealer in Kentucky kind of,

you know, you get the, you get. That's so good.
You know, yes. That's so good.
We have a senator like that

who, you know, I think if

he if he found a husband who was prepared to put up with,

I really shouldn't, I really shouldn't, but look up the ladybugs.

Look up his ladybugs.

It's on the internet. We have so many senators like that.
It's crazy. Well, I think people know the one I mean.
Oh, the actual one from Kentucky. No, no, no.

A little bit over. You know, you know, you can imagine he sort of invites his friend Jasper in for a mint julep.

You know, you know, and it's like, do you want to just sit there while I get myself dusted up? You know, like, like,

yes, of course, there are loads, but I'm thinking of the one in particular that everybody kind of

said you don't out people, so I feel like

you just mentioned McConnell's name.

It was Lindsey Graham.

But

no, I don't.

It's a a shame, isn't it?

The falling over,

how long are you going to stagger on? They're determined to turn themselves into the goblins that

dictate their behavior. Well, that's the thing about, and I'm not, yeah, it's that there's a bloodthirstiness that's just really distressing and offensive to me.

But think about it like this.

The sassy, vindictive.

catty cruelty of the homosexual.

Imagine what he'd be like if you gave him a a nuclear button, right?

Sounds stupid, but it's a continuum. It's a spectrum, right? And so those gays that have the will to power, they go get some and they use it to bomb people or to

bully or to, I mean,

how much must they all get off on the fact that they are all having sex and nobody would dare touch it. Nobody outs them.
Nobody says a thing. And they're all living lies to their consciousness.

This is, I mean, we were joking earlier about

outing people, but like, that's why I have a thirst for it because it's hypocrisy. It's public hypocrisy.
I'm not interested in outing like, you know,

Joe Simpson, who has a corner store. Right.
I'm interested in outing people who are misrepresenting themselves to the public.

And I'll, you know, somebody just got married with wedding pictures and with engagement pictures that are so absurd. I know.
I figured him out, by the way. I figured him out.

I could never work out this guy. I was like, what is it that's off with you? And I realized he always wants a bigger bigger laugh than the joke he tells commands.

And it's because he's actually obese, but in the body of a merely fat person.

Like, if you think of him as like 400 pounds, he suddenly makes sense because he's always doing this, oh,

you know, and you're like, oh, you're a fat person. You're a giant fat person.
So he's like a really fat gay in the body of like a

merely slightly overweight gay.

And suddenly his personality begins to make sense.

He does all these like fat, you know, he's got these like fat ticks that fat people do to like get a bigger laugh than their wit would normally allow for, you know?

Do you know what I mean? Like, and everybody, and everybody laughs long anyway, because they're fat.

You know, the fabulous just funny because they're fat. You know, and he's like, he's, he's like, he acts like he's funny because he's fat, but he's not fat.
You're talking about Corey Booker. Yeah.

Yeah. So just back to the question, though, is, so is monogamy an expectation in a gay marriage? No,

I think, well, I think it's an aspiration.

I think it's a stated ambition.

But, you know, like all ambitions, you know,

we state something we know we can never reach because in grasping for it,

we achieve greatness. And so

maybe they only have sex with 20 people a year instead of 200.

You know, and that's, that's gay, that's, that would be, that would be gay fidelity. That would be gay.
Really? Oh, yeah.

I'm not even going to say, I mean, maybe I'll tell you, but like. Because there's no woman there to enforce it.
So I've always exactly. And normally no kids to the blah blah.

How could you listen to your children? Blah, blah, this is why, this is why living

this is why living on the DL

in marriage with a woman is the optimum environment for a homosexual because all of the social cues are pushing them to do the what they know that they should be doing anyway, which is working on eradicating these disordered urges as the religious

religious ex-Ks would put it or

unwanted same-sex attraction as the reparative therapists would have it.

Whatever it is, all of the cues and the pressure is moving them in the right way.

And so, no, I mean,

Alan Turing, for God's sake, you know, is living like that.

Who was? Alan Turing, you know, the

he was living like that. And they castrated him anyway, which seems a bit mean to me after the war, after he'd won the war for them.

It's like, okay, that's all brilliant, but we're going to chemically castrate, you know. Seemed a bit gratuitous to me.
It's like, oh, God, I was like, oh, God.

Can I let him crack one out after he won the bloody war for you?

Oh, my God. All right.
All right. So, Britain can Brits can be savage like that.
You know, so do you know

the happiness level of people who are involved in like promiscuous gay sex? Like, what's it when you

when you

live that kind of life, you live it, you're living deep in profound denial. And it comes from

I read something in,

maybe it's the Atlantic or Mother Jones,

of all places, you know, some left-wing gay guy who just wrote about this really beautifully. I'll try to find it in Twitter after this, but

he said,

When homosexuals are young, they realize they have to put on different faces for different people. I guess their racial equivalent would be code switching, right? Yeah.

And they re and the effect of this on a person who has disordered urges, unlike someone who just happens to be black, is that it begins to like create cracks and ultimately that turn into like shards in the personality, like bits of the personality like burst ping off like a chandelier that fell to the floor.

And it's so sad. Yeah.

And it produces the space for profound denial of the type that most homosexual men find themselves in, where that flooding of addictive urge is mistaken for healthy and normal sexual

attraction.

And so

I kind of stumbled when I when I looked into

I just woke up one day and I was like, and I was married to a dude

to my shame. And I,

who's now like the ex-wife from hell, my God.

Look. If there's no other reason to like not be gay, just imagine like how bad a black homosexual ex-wife is.

I'm not even going to go there.

You don't even want to know. It's like, oh, sorry, it was two sports cars a year wasn't enough.
Okay, all right, okay, all right.

Don't even, but um,

I, when I woke up one day and I

woke up one day and I looked over and I was like, oh no, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, hell is real.
I don't want to go there.

And it just hit me like all after, it was growing, you know, while I was just like, no, no, I really don't want to to go there. And I, no,

what am I doing? And the way that I started to address this,

I kind of stumbled upon a crude version of what the enlightened, like, they don't call it conversion therapy anymore, they call it reintegrative therapy

because it's reintegrating those shards and those, and those broken, and those broken bits of like memory that lead to the wrong output. We can talk about it in detail if you want to, but

I stumbled upon kind of like a crude version of that so when i was trying to stop myself from doing this stuff i was using like hot oil on my thighs i was like doing things you know like like

like that hurt

and i was trying to rewire my brain

because i read a lot of you know psychology anthropology books and stuff like that so i thought i thought i know i thought sex urge is such a basic and powerful urge it's got to be just hard thought i knew what i was doing so i was like every time i get aroused i'm gonna go and do something that hurts you know and so i took the

i took took the, um,

you know, like paying my taxes, no, uh, you know, I,

um, you know, like having sex with black people. Uh, no, no, no.
Um, uh, I, I,

I, I, I did something immediately to try to redo that. And there's a much better way to do it, uh, which I can talk to you about.
But

I was, I was, I think I was recognizing in that

that I had this,

that something had jumped the tracks in my brain, right? And I was having

an incorrect response to a particular stimulus as a result of damage, trauma, whatever. And that

it's a little bit like being a PTSD victim or some other kinds of sexual deviance, right?

And that

I knew that I could train my way out of it because at the same time, I had been returning to the Catholic faith of my childhood. And I had been speaking to a dear friend.

She's a very brilliant professor in Chicago. She's a

world's leading expert on Marion devotion in the Middle Ages. And she's, you know, she was, she was, she was kind of like feeding me this rich material about training the soul in virtue.
And

I was, I was like, okay, well, if I can do it about that, because I'm getting pretty good at that, like, what about this? And so I did this stuff. And

I got myself as far as celibacy, which is where I am. I'm coming in January, it'll be five years.

Oh, celibacy. yeah

and the good thing about the male libido is the less you have the less you want uh which married men can tell you is this is the only reason they're still married um you know uh it's like sugar though the more you eat the more you want it is exactly like that why because it's an appetite not a sexual uh orientation it's an appetite it's an addiction

um and the more that you have cocaine or adder old the more that you are likely on a given tuesday afternoon to be like ooh lime would be nice or oh why don't I have a little

instant release, 30 milligrams? That'll get me through the day, you know?

It works the same. It functions the same.
It is the same. I remember reading during the AIDS

period about the number of sexual partners a year, which is like crazy high. I think it's all banned.
I don't know how to talk about it anymore.

And thinking, you know, if those were all like hot girls, would I want to sleep with 75?

You wouldn't be able to get through it. Honestly, I don't think most trade men would.

it'd be like yeah you know i mean you know men are obviously pigs and they're like variety and all that you've hit on something real which is that well i'm trying to be as honest as i can i'm sure i'll be mocked for this but i did wonder like if it's because you get there's something wrong with the act itself if you're doing that many people right yes now there's a component of it where it's like

the the women are setting up the friction there they're the ones with the precious jewel that want that you know that they're setting up barriers to right men will put out like if if a man wants to have sex, like they're normally the person asking for the sex, right?

They're normally the ones who are seeking the sex.

Women, normally the ones who are, um,

I wouldn't say withholding it, but uh, regulating the access to it, let's say, as the enforcers for sure. Um,

take that away, and of course, and put two men on there, and you're like, well, if they both want it, they're both going to do it all the time. Of course, but that doesn't really explain

exactly

that was my thought. It's like if there was no limit

if if good-looking women wanted to, this is my younger self thinking this: if they wanted to sleep with me as much as I want to sleep with them, I still don't think I'd sleep with 75 of them in a year because that sounds kind of gross.

Well, I mean, by gay standards, that's

practically celibate.

I mean, maybe not these days with the boring gays that adopt the children who don't have sex with each other and just molest the kids, but

by

the old-fashioned gay standards of the taboo-breaking, promiscuous drug. I mean, look, I grew grew up in London taking a lot of fucking drugs, going to a lot of clubs, going to a B-the.

And then, of course, you know, like in London, you had a circuit of clubs, like Trade and Beyond, and

DTPM, whatever.

There was like a circuit every weekend. It was four continuous days, right? Which you could only really do with drugs.
And during that time, stops off for sex.

I mean, 75 is like, takes you up to February. Actually,

I mean, I probably was a lot worse than usual, and I grouped scenarios and whatever, but yeah, I mean,

it doesn't fully explain the grotesque extent.

And by the way, it's always the gay couples that are basically lesbians that live sterile, like they live these like sexless lives who are incensed when you dare to talk about gay promiscuity.

It's not because gay promiscuity doesn't exist, it's because they don't have access to it.

But most gays do. And

what we just, what we are thinking about in our hypothetical example of

two men doesn't explain the full grotesque extent of it. And it's because there is something unsatisfying about gay sex.

Well, that was my assumption.

And you're correct. And it's...

So Catholic natural law

and the way that low therapies work, they start with this presumption that things are working properly when they are performing the function for which they were designed. Yes.
Right?

Clearly, an erect member going into the wrong orifice is not doing, um, is not performing the function for which it was designed, right?

So, sex that ends that way too cannot possibly be satisfying. It's not permissible spiritually.
It's not satisfying physically.

So, if you take Catholic Church teaching, for instance, just- No, I think that's real, and that's true for eating, and it's true for beauty, and it's true for sterile. The sex is sterile.

No, but every pleasure that's like a righteous pleasure satisfies you yeah let only 15 of them right but like justice feels good you know when you see somebody wicked get their comeuppance and you're like yeah and that feels like a lot of that feels it feels a little like um uh as you say righteous pleasures um

all of which tend toward the kind of satisfaction that you uh that a lot of people describe getting um in holy communion communion it's filling right it is filling it is filling that little wafer is very filling right

The further you get away from that, the less satisfying things are by volume, if you like.

That tiny little wafer, which is complete, you feel like you don't need to

feel,

eat, drink, think, pray, anything else the rest of your whole life, you just feel like perfect in that moment, like like you have, because you are just in that brief moment in dialogue with our Lord.

in some fashion.

And you're like,

that's my my sunday vibes you know like whatever it is and it's not until monday morning that life kind of comes comes back at you the further you get away from that the more stuff you need to approach the same level of satisfaction think about like um

uh uh the the fake sugar you have right uh over here um the the the cornstarch whatever it's called how much hershey's chocolate you have to eat to feel the same as two squares of capries

or how many reese's peanut butter cups equals a steak yeah yeah yeah exactly well i really noticed that. I mean, by the way,

you know, Halloween candy, you can, I don't know, I don't know much about calories, but you could eat like millions of calories, but you can't eat six pounds of steak. It's just not possible.

But the point is that not the sugar is bad necessarily, but that

this fake sugar that has that waxy taste, that's not really what you need so much more of it to feel satisfied, to get your sugar head. That is totally right.

And in so doing, you have so many more calories, right? And you start to get fat. And

and and then then then you need not just six cokes but eight cokes a day instead of totally right one like so so

homosexual sex is sterile it's not capable of leading to production of excuse me of procreation right

you cannot make a baby with gay sex it is spiritually unsatisfying in addition to being and of course these two things are connected physically unsatisfying too

And

when you start to think about like

everything working, performing the function for which it was designed, like doing that for which it was intended, you start to realize why gay sex is like, is

not hitting, you know? And this is the basis. This is the start.
This is where the therapy begins. It begins.
Can I just ask you one last question before you describe how your life has changed?

I don't mean to rush onto that. No, no, no.
No, I'm fascinated by it, but I just find it so interesting. So, so you spent like an hour and 20 minutes describing the hell that you lived.

You thought it was hellish.

You left.

And

it sounds like you feel better and certainly resolved.

But you're not encouraged to feel that way. Like there's something about the life that you live that's treated like a gang initiation or something.
Like you can check in, but you can never leave.

Like you're not welcome to leave. Well, just look at the comments.
You get like,

forgive the language, but

under every post that I will make online or every,

you know, on the rare occasion I might say something about this in an interview, One phrase keeps popping up over and over again in the comments: you can't unsuck a dick.

Meaning, there's no salvation for you. Once you're gay, you're gay.
You're gay. You're homosexual.
That's it. Who's pushing that? The stain that that leaves, right? Which is profoundly unchristian.

I mean, we think about Isaiah, right? You know, your sins may be scarlet, but they'll be washed white as snow.

That Saul became Paul. Right.
Doesn't exist for these people.

And it's often leftists, but not always,

insisting on this permanent, the permanence of this stain. And there's more to it than merely just

I hate you and I want you to hurt, or you're doing something stupid or whatever.

There's something more going on. And it's

people are terrified by the idea that

this might not be an intrinsic

part of a person's personality or nature.

Why? Why are they afraid of that? I thought we were for personal choice. Well, we're all a bit afraid of that, aren't we? Because we're all kind of like, you know, we see other people who are

doing well in life or who have got themselves out of a sticky situation or, you know, who left their phone on the table when they went for the bathroom and the break or whatever.

And who

and who

lash out against others who do seem to be achieving something redemptive. And isn't it true that one of those characterizations of the demons is that they're,

you know, in the presence of the light, in the presence of good, of the word of God, they hiss and spit, right?

And it's not necessarily these people who are gay themselves, but they, they,

to, to confront the horror that a gay person might be able to un-gay. means that whatever whatever you've got going in your life, you could fix easy.

But you don't want to, do you? You don't want to get better. You don't want to stop.
Because if he can stop having sex with men,

knowing what a powerful compulsion urge that is for most men, you know,

that might mean I have to stop drinking. That might mean I have to stop taking drugs.
That might mean I have to stop being a fat ass.

That might mean I have to stop being cruel, being vindictive, abusive, malicious.

And I think that part of it is certainly

that we have become a society that encourages vice over virtue, that aggressively pushes sin. Yes.
Why? Because

dumb, dependent people are easier to control, because dumb, dependent people living paycheck to paycheck, enslaved not only to,

and we live in a particularly evil

environment now where we're not just enslaved to things, we're enslaved to the mechanisms by which we get them, compound interest, you know,

our car payments, all this kind of stuff, like 50-year mortgages. Yeah, thanks, Trump.
How many years of that are we just paying down the interest before we own a brick in the house? You know,

we're now enslaved to these like meta addictions or these additional layers of problem, which mean that we can't even do anything about our lives because one missed paycheck.

We can't do anything about it.

We can't do anything about it because we're locked in from every single angle into our addictions, into our compulsions, into the bad food that we eat at the supermarket because it's cheap and

the TV we watch, we know we shouldn't, and the video games that are fine by themselves, but which, you know,

20 hours over the weekend, like that's a lot, bro. You know, just all this stuff.
And it's packaged and it's pushed and it's encouraged. And just look at the sponsors.
I looked at the sponsors of

Jimmy Kimmel's show when he was taken off the air. And it's donuts and banks.

Look at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel's show and you're like, oh my God. Like, these are evil, wretched, terrible people who just want you fat, stupid, and quiet.

There's no question in my mind you're telling the truth. It's too obvious.
We want you dumb and dependent. And do you think the relentless promotion of homosexuality is part of that?

Because it is relentlessly, tirelessly promoted, period. Anyone says it's not a wire.
It's more incapacitating.

What is more incapacitating? Having no control over your sexual desires. And just look at how comfy capitalism has made itself with homosexuals.
Like, oh, you've got no kids.

Well, perhaps you'd like these designer clothes. You know, oh, you don't have any dependents.
Well, maybe you'd like to spend way more than you should on this cruise. You know, or whatever, whatever.

I mean, a boat cruise. You know, oh, you, you, you, you, um, uh, all your disposable income is yours to spend.
Well, um, perhaps you'd like to try. Would you have a special this evening, sir?

You know, like our pan-roasted blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know,

they used to call it the pink pound in England. This

disproportionate ability of gays to spend, which has a reinforcing effect. It says

a

I don't know the economic term, but you probably do. It has like a magnifying

or

a fortifying effect because, of course, gays spend more, so you market more to gays. So you get more, you know, so you get more of them.

And then other people begin to acquire gay taste which has happened to women and is now happening to men um because it's seen as a prestige or a luxury or a or a desirable kind of lifestyle so you see men as the um uh charming uh ladies of youtube would tell us faggotized um who are are are acquiring gay habits and get like i mean like soul cycle for it i mean please uh you know like what are these people doing it's like you're in like her and you want me to see your ass got it because this is doing nothing

what are there gay habits habits for men acquiring uh definitely um uh food which i mean like

if you're

if you're a chap so i was in the hotel last night um as i was thinking about this show and i looked at the menu and i was like there's nothing on here for men

it was all these like seafood um uh a bit but the hand whatever and the guy that was serving me had a huge ginger beard um

god bless him.

And I said, you don't eat here. And he said, well, and I said, you don't eat here.
Where do you eat? And he said, I said, okay, fine.

And I said, is there anything on here that you would eat aside from this? And it didn't say how big the filet was, but I was like, what is it? Six ounces? We need four of those. And he was like, yeah.

I was like, you work here.

You wouldn't eat anything because there's nothing for men on the menu. Cause it's all this like airy, fairy, unsatisfying, calorie-rich, full of like, you know, flavor, but no protein.

Food for girls All food for girls. Look at the menu in your favorite restaurant.
Look at the menu in every restaurant. There's no food for men on it.

I mean, like,

where is it?

Even, even like a heroic meat like lamb.

It's like $78 to this little, this little, like,

thanks. Thanks so much.

What is that? That's not man food. So, food, for sure, I mean, clothing, let's not even,

Sexual habits. Women have become faggotized by the promiscuity culture that their gay best friends, you know, like to sort of have a nudge and a wink kind of relationship with.

Like, oh, I don't do it. But who's this? Oh, just Jamal.

You know,

who's this? That's not the guy that you were with like three days ago. Quiet girl.

Sorry about her. You know, like just all that kind of stuff.

And men,

just the way in which the self-destructive

um sacrifice uh uh self-sacrifice the the the relinquishment of of of the will to the most addictive version of everything it's very gay very gay the most addictive version of everything so like if gay sex is like addiction where it just floods your mind with like the chemicals where you can't get it out of your head like we were talking about right at the beginning yeah

well the food has become like that and the clothes have become like that And the, you know, like

men buying designer clothes has always been a bit sus to me. Oh, I totally agree.
Like, I'm, I mean, I do it because I'm like, I've got about another three years where I can still get away with this.

And then I'm going to have to just be straight.

Well, I can still do it. You know, and then I'm going to have to find like some, some like,

I'm going to have to find my own nudge and a wink thing like, oh, no, they're not Dr. Gimano.
They're Arelano. Oh, that's the, it's the, um, it's the late Pope Benedict XVI's favorite shoemaker for

your fag attached. You know,

Stop it. You know, I'm going to have to give all this up.
But,

but somebody's been heterosexual all their life. Like, what are you doing in Dior?

Well, I mean, they only make shoes, I think. No, no, no, there's male Dior now.
What are you doing? It's Chanel that doesn't do men's clothes. What are you doing in Doching Obana?

What are you doing in Versace? Why are you spending $1,000 on a pair of shoes that is not like a

tactical or a and even that stuff? Oh my God. Like the faggotization of like the, the, of the, you know, you can go now you can go to cryptech and you can get the Versace of Camo.

It's like, which, which, their salespeople will even call it that, not on the website because men don't like that. But, but

like, there's now like designer camo

where it's like, I mean, I know I have it, but,

you know,

faggotize.

faggotize everything is look at the consumer toys who's making these decisions women and we and we have this is a women women in the marketing departments women in the in the advertising women on social media, everything's going gay.

And

it's justified. And just the same way with the pink pound is self-reinforcing.
This thing we always say, oh, women make most of the purchasing decisions in most houses. Shut up.

Like, it doesn't mean every man has to go out looking like he wants to drop on his knees

in a public park or in a toilet just because his wife chooses what washing powder they use. Like, stop it.

Everything has gone gay. Everything's gone gay.
I mean,

just every bit of life. I mean, music.

I mean, now we force heterosexuals to listen to Lil Nas X,

you know, and

this sort of,

you know, endless turnover of

preening homosexual crooners that we call pop stars. There aren't any anymore because,

you know, pop stars require a kind of like heroic, manly virtue, I think, that is just gone now. It's just not there anymore.
So if you wanted to weaken a society to the point of collapse.

Faggotize it.

It's not feminization.

That's a mistake to believe that. It's not, society is not becoming feminized.
It's becoming faggotized.

It's become, it's, it's, it has been gayed.

You know, and it's, um,

and it's, it's like the difference between effeminacy and femininity, right? You look carefully at the behaviors. It's like it might have started off.

feminized like you said oh the hr departments have kind of like feminized language in the corporate sphere and blah blah it might have started that way but the gays took over very soon afterwards.

And so now we don't have a feminized public square, we have a faggotized public square.

And it's hardly surprising given that everybody in Congress and everybody in the Senate and everybody in the party and everybody on TV and everybody else that you've ever heard of on television and everybody on all the TV shows are gay.

Like it's not a shocker.

This would be the result. Because even if they might be living

DL lives, they still like what they like. and they're still going to do it.
And it's like, oh, yes, that's good. Cause it's got that little cocktail.
You know, like they still do it.

You see at DC, like, these big, like, these, these, these men in DC, like drinking their little champagne and things.

So when you are, I mean, a lot of this, it's like walking into a room full of women and there's all this stuff going on, but you have no idea what it is.

A daily occurrence for me. But you know, something's going on, but you, you know, you don't quite get the right

on the wrong frequency. You're not recognizing it because it's not feminine because you'd recognize it if it was feminine.
You'd know what you were looking at.

But when you go to Washington, when you were flitting around Washington as a,

what was your dangerous faggot tour? Is that what it was called? Yes, I think, I think the verb would be flit.

Well, perhaps flounce.

There was some flouncing. I saw it.

There was a bit of flouncing. Do you know the funny story?

Perfect. Sorry to cut you off.
No, no, no. Again, I've been doing it the whole day, but

a perfect illustration of the faggotization of society.

My bus, my giant dangerous faggot tour bus is in a parking lot just outside Washington, Washington, D.C.

And

Mike Pence's advance team are planning to put him in the same hotel. And they have to change hotels.
Yeah, no, stop. But they have to change.
I mean, he's like spiritually gay for sure, but

he had to change hotels and divert his. I mean, this is the, you know, this is the incoming vice president of the United States, right?

To make way for the faggot.

Just saying. It wasn't like

the first time.

They could have come to me and said, would you mind? Cause we have like the

vice president-elect, like whatever, or coming in. I mean, this is 2017, so he is the vice president by then.

You know, we have the vice president, you know, coming through.

And we would have said, yeah, sure,

we'll go to the residents in.

But no, they just changed all of his plans, not mine, to make way to make space for the faggot.

Perfect analogy, isn't it? Perfect. But you picked up that vibe a lot when you were in Washington.
Oh, my God. The number of people who...
Sorry,

you told me you don't know how people. Um, no, I mean, I think allegations have been roundly disproven, haven't they?

Um, no, but you know, but the number of people who were just, I mean, they didn't quite say hop on my lamp, but

so you, I mean, because you're on that wavelength, well, 10 years ago, I was very beautiful, and uh,

I didn't notice, um, no, of course, you didn't notice,

been upset about you because I've had it ever since.

Um, yeah, Tucker never said I was

no, um, uh, no, I was, I was very good looking, you know, I was in shape and all the rest of it. And, and, and, and now, I mean, it was, it was, it was like a daily avalanche.

Really? Never needed to visit Niagara Falls. I just, you know, just like, it was like, I've got a, I've got a, I've got, I've got a giant torrent coming.

Let me, let me, I won't finish that metaphor, but um, no, it's just, just, just, no, it's a torrent.

So, how has your life changed day to day now that you're celibate and getting away from

trying trying to over overcome your gay sexual impulses? I don't really have them anymore.

Not often.

My life is...

So I've learned.

Well, the first thing to say is that dogs have stopped barking at me. What?

I mean, I used to set dogs off, like really set dogs off.

Like they would go crazy around me. And when I really yeah, yeah with hostility or affection? I mean they can sense evil, you know um

my spiritual director i can only tell this joke because it's my spiritual director that said it

i said do you think it's because they can sense evil he said no it's because you don't smell like blacks anymore

look the priest said it um

let the record reflect i'm not laughing

uh you know dogs have dog dogs have a famous uh no i know why complex relationship with with with certain people um

uh i'm sure that's not what it was, but maybe no, but

you know, the biggest thing that happened to me.

Wait, can I stop? Did dogs literally, are you being serious about dogs? 100% serious. I mean, like, there's two photos of me like snuggling with puppies, like, okay, you got me.

But other than that, almost every other dog like would just go nuts anywhere around me.

Uh, my, my, I set up a loving firm last year with a friend, and, and, um, and her dogs just went ape anytime I was even in the vicinity until I started making these changes. And then it was like,

and now they're like,

it's bizarre.

I mean, I'm a cat person now because I kind of have to be, but, but, um, but I'm a great lover of dogs. Like, I think you are too.
Yes. Um, a great lover of dogs.

And, you know, what they lack in intellectual sophistication.

uh versus their feline uh compatriots they make up for in like intuition you know they do they're like like they're like babies they're like they've got a little holy spirit in them or something.

They're just like, they know good guys from bad guys. Dogs just couldn't be around me.
That's amazing. I mean, I'm sure not all gay people have that thing, but it's just

a sign of something that changed.

The biggest thing that changed for me, though, which is not like a big, the biggest thing to me, because I live quite an internal life, you know, like most of my, most of my life is up here, right?

The biggest thing that happened to me is I started caring what happened in stories. Like spoilers started to bother me.
And I couldn't figure out what that was about.

Like 10 years ago, when a Star Wars movie came out, just before Christmas, when no one had had the chance to see it, I tweeted, Han Solo dies.

You know, like a thousand people unfollowed me. How could you? Ah, you know, you're the worst person.
It's like, what are you talking about? It's like a stupid space movie. Like, get a grip.

But I started to care. Maybe because I started to care what happens to me.

I've started to care what happens in stories. Like the plot matters.
I'm no longer just looking at the surface, at the,

surfaces in it. I'm not looking at the dresses on the women or the

accents or at least not just looking at those things anymore. Like I want to know that the story has a happy ending.

Because I think, you know, cleaving to my faith more closely, I've become more aware that the universe has a happy ending and I want a happy ending.

And that's the biggest thing that's happened to me, like in my, in my head, in my soul, you know?

Did you not care about yourself as much? no of course not of course not but i've gone from

i went from somebody who liked oscar wilde because i liked the witty lines and the sparkling surface of it to somebody who appreciates

instead now

or at least reads it differently now for this for the subversion for the the little eddies in language he uses which are meant to to to show you know that this this kind of like disintegrating way of life and now and i read it

now.

History, like, I never read history books because nothing mattered before or after. It's just like today, because I'm in a grip of an addiction.
But now I read biographies. I never did that before.

Well, because a narcissist doesn't care about other people's lives. Right, but I knew I knew stuff, but I didn't like, I didn't want to know details.
And I, and now I feel,

I mean, Myers-Briggs is a lot of old shit, but, but. I'm like, my, my personality type, such as it is, is completely changed.
And I don't know exactly. Really? Yeah.

I mean, I know I look and sound like pretty similar, but the way that I,

because I have the same sense of humor, like I have some bits of personality that I have, but the way that I acquire information has changed. Like I, like,

I forget the distinctions because it is a load of shit, but, but, you know, like the intuitive to the sensory or whatever, it feels, feels now like I can.

I feel more in tune now. Like before, there was kind of like a sheet of glass, like some critical ironic distance between me and the world where I didn't

really want to engage with it, you know.

And now I'm like, I want to grab the wood. Sorry, I'll rephrase that.
I want to, you know, I want to like, now I want to grab a different kind of wood.

No, I want to, I want to like know what it's made of and where it's from and

look at it and think about it. And, and, like,

so this is how you ended up, huh? You know, you know, like, like that, that didn't used to occur to me at all. I'd just be like, yeah, it's cool.
I love the aesthetic. It's really nice.

I love what you're going on. What is this?

Shabby chic you know like and i just wouldn't know um and now i'm just like this is alive this is like it like i now i get i didn't get when you first started i was like like this about the set and now i'm like no no no no no

you were a prisoner of ironic detachment yeah yeah like this this kind of like everything's got to be meta everything's got to be whatever because i was afraid of engaging with the material critically yes and authentically you know um i was afraid of engaging with the material and and and now i'm can i just say can i just brag indirectly?

Even when you were, I first met you in the green room at some Fox show years ago, many years ago,

and you were in full.

Full fag. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, ridiculous.
It was a lot. It was a lot.
Parody of

a gay man.

I thought you were deep anyway. I could see that in you.
Sorry. Not bragging.
I always thought that. I mean, it was a compliment to both of us.

No, but I perceive that. Now when I do gay things, I do it in like a Margaret Thatcher accent because now it's not really me anymore.

No, I saw that, though. I saw that instantly.
Like first day, I remember we were

exactly.

But when you see somebody that way, I mean, there are gay people who are not deep, you know,

Dave Rubin, you know, people who just... There's no one shallower.
There's no they're there. There's nobody behind, there's nobody behind there.
Oh, I know. It's just that.

And you read his book, you know, you read his book and it's like,

Candace made me read his book. Really? She made me.

He did, I mean, his book, like, Don't Burn This Book. I'm like, I'd have to buy it first.
I'd have to know it, I have to have heard of it. I'd have to acknowledge it really is a book.

No, please, the spacing, like they sort of like, the margins and, oh my God.

I mean, you know, from having so many successful books, like all the publishing tricks, like, you know, if you, if your

manuscript comes in short, you're like, oh, yeah.

You know, we probably both had that happen to us from time to time.

There was this rumor that I,

there was this rumor that I didn't write my books. It was this team, a fleet of, um, of assistants.

And so the first interview I gave about my, my book about the, the last pope, um, the book had been out two months and I said, um, sounds brilliant. I can't wait to read it.

But you know, I was like, well, you know, when you actually have like stuff going on, you're too busy to write it. And then you write other people's books in the fellow periods.
Anyway, um, so

you know what it is. Actually, I have a famous friend who never read any of his books.
No, of course. And he had a million of them.
Yeah. Bill O'Reilly, probably.
That's very much a TV thing.

Yeah, it is. It is.
It is. And I was on tour and stuff.
So, but I did actually write mine, as it happens. I had a research assistant, but

actually, a very great guy, Alan Buccari, who's now writing a book about Gamergate, the great

untold story about how Trump happened, which is completely topic for another day. But

what was the question?

Well, the question was

how you've changed as a person.

I do. I still go off on tangents.
Yes. But you were saying that you have an appreciation for the future and for things beyond yourself, whereas you didn't before.
I'm back in the room.

Now

I will, I care what happens at the end of stories.

Like I used to read it for the wit and try to remember the sparkling dialogue

to semi-plagiarize it in conversation or whatever, you know? Yeah.

And, you know, I see a little of this change in another friend of mine and George Santos.

What a good guy he is.

I can't help but like him. I always liked him.
You can't help button. I always liked him.
I was just like, oh, he's so likable.

And he's likable.

He would be likable if he was thin, which is how likable he is.

I never thought of that. He'd be likable, even if he was skinny.
That's how likable he is.

He's especially lovely at being jolly. But

I've noticed in him some little changes, some adjustments along these lines since he's had his reckoning and his, you know, I mean, he had to confront something.

I make a prediction.

Guarantee you, the guy doesn't die gay.

Guarantee you, George doesn't die gay because he's going to see his behavior, the Walter Mitte stuff, as being in dialogue with, dependent on, congruent with the other damage.

Guarantee it.

Guarantee it.

I'm still so uncomfortable with this topic that I'm not going to broach that with him, but I think you're qualified to do that. Well, I'm on Timpool with him soon, so maybe I will.

So how do you change? Like, what's the process? This thing that we're not allowed to talk about, which is, and I can't, gay conversion therapy. We don't call it conversion therapy anymore.

But that's what it was called, right? They were trying to ban it. So like

you were required to be gay. I remember thinking like, and by the way, I've never been anti- What are you converting from and to?

No, but also the idea that you're not allowed allowed to change like what that's when i realized

why are you keeping people gay against their will you're keeping you well that's when my mind i as someone who's always been i guess pro-gay or whatever i'd never really been that involved in it one of the least attractive things about you yeah i agree i agree but i started my brain started to change a little bit when they were like we're gonna ban gay conversion therapy and i was like i thought the whole point was you can be whatever you want to be which i was kind of for but now you're gay you must stay that way it's respectable for you to be pro-gay if the basis of

your pro-gayness is that they're trying to force people to stay gay. Well, no, no, that's when I started to change.
I was like, what are we talking about here? You're not allowed.

So you're going the wrong way. Yeah, no, you're just off on this.

That just blew my mind when they tried to ban that.

This is not what they told me it was. They're trying to force people to stay gay against their will.
Yes. I mean, it's bizarre.
There's a Supreme Court case right now.

The

ruling will come next year about whether or not bans on gay conversion therapy are constitutional, whether it's legal to do it. So we'll find out.
Craziest thing I've ever heard.

Well,

Supreme Court's kind of like, it always struck me, at least until recently, I guess, with the injection of the DEI, like lunatic.

Isn't that the greatest chart you've ever seen? The greatest graph of my life. How much Katanji Brown Jackson talks.

It's the greatest. It's the greatest chart I've ever seen.
Self-esteem is inverse proportion to ability. Yeah, we're aware of that yeah

it's the greatest chart i've ever seen and then you got and then you got old clarence in your life right yeah one word it is the greatest chart

uh i just saw it and my reaction was at tracks and we had in the supreme court and probably maybe so i mean it's sort of down the line isn't it democrat up until recently it was you know it was really just like catholics be jews on the supreme court um i don't think there are any protestants on the supreme court um I don't think there are now.

There is one. Neil Gorsuch is an Episcopalian.
Yeah, but

you're just over the fence. No, but I mean, there was a while where

you've got a little toe in the Tiber.

This country was founded and created by Protestant men, and there's not a single one in the Supreme Court. There's a fifth of them a Catholic.

The small ones.

Only in Rhode Island, but whatever. Another day.

When you see that kind of civilizational clash, as it seems to me that it is one,

I can't help but hope

if they're not going to do Obergefell,

that they at least let people get away from being gay.

Like at least let people leave.

At least let people leave.

Because I had to fumble my way

with hot oil on a stove and like hurting myself to eventually get to a point where

I

was not seeing a particular stimulus and ultimatically having a particular arousal response. Is that what you want?

Is that what they want? Is that what they want everybody to have to do? To sit at home and abuse themselves?

To sit at home and like hurt themselves, to get rid of these unwanted, disordered urges that are making them miserable, that are hurting other people, that are hurting them, that are the product of trauma, that are a trauma response.

Is that what you want? You want people to sit at home and do it to themselves? I don't think so. I think it's what they want.
I think destroying maybe is what they want.

But I don't think it's what we want.

I agree. So how do people change and what is the process?

Well,

the father of this stuff, the most, I mean, there are some quacks. Oh, I bet.
We're not going to lie about it. But the father of the stuff, the most...
respectable stuff with the highest success rate,

the guy's name was Joseph Niccolosi.

And you can't find most of his books on Amazon Olves.

Actually? Yeah. Why?

Because they're suppressed.

So that just tells you that right there. If they're banning books.

Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Well,

I'm not such an anti-book banned guy. You're a bit more of a free speech fun.

What were the Nazis burning? What were they burning? Ask them.

I know. I'm very aware of that.

I guess what I'm just saying I'm more of a free speech fund. I I am.
I am a free speech fan. I have evolved into more of an authoritarian over the last 10 years.

Well, I'm not even having that debate. I'm just saying that you know what's important to people.
You know what they're lying about by what they try and hide. Sure.

We can agree that's right. And we can also agree that

all of the Jewish trans doctors need to have their books burned. But

when

he wrote about this stuff over decades, had a very

tempestuous relationship with the bodies in psychology and all the rest of it and psychiatry.

But

he's the person to read if you want to understand how people become gay and how many of them have got out of it. So

for me, the most important book is Shame and Attachment Loss. It's kind of got a yellowy green cover.

And the good news is that although

Dr. Niccolosi has left us his son joe jr

um

is still in the practice and is still training therapists today he's based in california um obviously uh and um uh and so he's still working today and and today the the way that the therapy um uh that um joe jr does uh presents itself is is

okay it looks weird it looks really weird It's peculiar looking.

It's almost funny looking when you see, you know, because sometimes they'll film a session as a demonstration, you know.

But it

and it almost looks sort of like

something you might see from Ali McBeal, like smile therapy or something, right?

But for a lot of patients, it's showing enormous progress and progress we measure as

the amount of arousal,

unwanted same-sex feelings, like are just like, I didn't, wait a minute, did I?

I don't think I like got the hots for anyone this week, you know, you know, yeah. So

people become, people have uh gay sex

urges for a variety of reasons, you know, so that the, the,

without getting too specific, you know, the passive partner in a gay encounter is

looking to take on some of the masculinity he feels he lacks. And that's in a literal physical way and in an emotional way too, right?

He's seeking to

absorb in some fashion the manliness he feels he doesn't have.

Really? Yes.

And it makes sense, don't it? Like when you think about it. I've always wondered what that was, but yeah.

It's a way of interacting with the kind of men you've never been able to interact with or who've never like taken you seriously or that you've always kind of like admired from afar or whatever, because you have had this like jump tracks thing in your brain from neglect or abuse or whatever it is

and so you seek you want to be you want to you feel like it's it's like getting charged up and this is the way the magic comes in again as you know like this is how magic works you know like magic artifacts got like charged up with evil power like that's what you know grace doesn't work like that you know god doesn't work that way uh the infinite limitless uh generosity and charity and grace of god doesn't work like that you don't have to like recharge your your reserves another reason gay sex is unfulfilling because it's refilling a battery that's always depleting it's like a slow puncture you know and you just top it up you can never fill it up you can top it up for a moment with with an encounter like this um

those urges in the first place come from um

uh

a memory or a thought or something that's leading to um

this arousal,

this disordered urge. And the way to get rid of it

feels a little like some people will have heard of maybe CBT, although it's different in some important ways.

The therapy is three-step.

The first thing that you do is you produce that state. So you think about or you look at something that will take you to the place that would have produced arousal

previously. And then you introduce something unexpected into the brain.

And the idea is that you rewire the brain

in its plasticity to expect a different outcome when it has that stimulus in the future, right?

So

the way I did it was to hurt myself. So if I saw a basketball player, I'm not basketball because we're all gay nerds, like I said, but a football player, like I said,

sitting down next to me on a flight or something,

I wouldn't get aroused, like the blood wouldn't stop flowing. I would get like, you know, like that,

or something, right?

Vaguely. Or at least wouldn't get that arousal response.
The way that the therapists do it, which is better, is

a sort of like, I guess a completely unrelated feelings neutral kind of a thing, right? And the way it looks, it's just remarkable.

And the third step is just repeat it, because there's only two ways you can persuade the brain of things, which is emotional connection and repetition. Nothing else works.

Those are the only two means of persuasion that work. Emotional connection or repetition.
So this is why

all the late night comedians who aren't funny anymore, their job is not to be funny.

Their job is to associate certain things with certain emotional reactions and then to do that every night of the week forever. So Trump, ew.

And then the next night, Trump, ew. And this eventually persuades people that Trump bad, right? Because they're associating an emotional

reaction

to a certain thing. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
It's just programming. It's programming.
It's programming. They don't have to be funny.
That's not their job.

It is not Jimmy Kimmel's job to be funny. It's Jimmy Kimmel's job to repeat and repeat.
It's why it's so boring and repetitive, right? Yeah. Repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat.

Positive, happy, like Camela's so brave. Trump's hideous.
Oh, disgusting. Isn't he gross? Isn't he, oh, that fat ginger orange retard, whatever, you know?

They're not talking about him in terms of policy. They're talking about it in terms of disgust.
Yeah, because that's an emotional thing.

And then again, again, again, again, eventually people are like, Trump, ew, you know? Of course. That's happening.
It's just programming. It's why the comedians aren't funny.
You're welcome.

This is that for virtuous ends, because it's what works in the brain.

And it very often uses,

so

people find this strange, but so Aquinas talks about how grace builds on nature, right? Thomas Aquinas.

So there are ways in which our bodies

are machines.

They function according to mechanisms and respond to stimulus. And although there's a spiritual dimension to all of this,

the way our brains work, it's trainable. It's trainable like a dog is trainable.
It's trainable like anything is trainable.

And so

the way this therapy looks, and I provided you with a couple of little examples in video

so that you can see it yourself afterwards. The way this therapy looks

is,

first of all, that the original stimulus will be produced. And then there may be a pattern of like following a pen around or a particular kind of tapping on the knee or something.

It's just intended to be like a neutral,

different outcome from that initial response. So that no longer does the brain go to arousal, but it goes to something else.
And that,

it's very common. If you see it in PTSD survivors, if you've ever been

to the VA, you'll see a lot of like this going on in like the treatment rooms. And you're like, what the hell is that?

that's what it is. They're they're they're produced, they ask them to remember something traumatic from their service, and then something

it's just kind of a little thing. And what's going on is

the best way I can kind of describe it is

it's like when you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete, and then a couple of other things, and the computer reboots without the virus now.

Yes, you know, like that's not quite how computers work, but um, uh, you know, it reboots, and you're no longer in that situation again. You can do that with the brain,

but it takes not just one reboot, but it takes uh repeated

raising if they call it the schema or the target, the thing that produced that unwanted response. And then immediately the introduction of an unexpected outcome.

So your brain's like, hang on a second.

This happened. So I was expecting that, but then this happened.
And then over time, your brain learns to just do that instead.

And that instead could just be like something completely anodyne, or it could be like I did, which is a kind of clunking amateur version of it, which was something painful or unpleasant.

And the third step, just do it over and over again. And eventually, you see

people

just have less of those desires. It's

the most peculiar thing, but it is being born out in the studies. And the so Joe Jr., I brought this with me, I'll leave it with you if you're interested.
But

144 people

in a randomized placebo blind trial, it works.

It works. And it works because

these homosexual urges are not so totally unlike other forms of trauma, other forms of damage, other forms of

deviance.

This same thing, it works on people who are obsessed with rape. Like a guy who can't get off unless he's thinking about raping a girl.

Now, rape is something that women love to fantasize about, but perhaps don't necessarily enjoy the reality of, even the reality of play of it, right?

It's something women love to think about, but you know,

you act that one out without warning, you're sleeping on the couch for a minimum.

It can help men to enjoy sex lives that don't involve coercion, you know, because they have that sort of thing. And much of the same

technique is used with people who have other kinds of trauma, who have other kinds of trauma responses as a product of bad things that happen to them, or as a product of just something going a bit wrong, where that track is jumped, you know?

And so, this,

though it looks very odd, is based on decades of

research and builds on other therapies for other kinds of trauma, and it looks like it's working. Now, I didn't have this kind of therapy.
I will say that.

Like I said, I kind of bumbled through on my own because I'm stubborn and

a loner. But this has started to work for people.

When you look back on the life that you led 10 years ago, how do you feel?

I feel ashamed.

I feel embarrassed and disgusted by the things I did, but I feel ashamed.

particularly about 10 years ago, about how many people I, you know, I thought I was like laying it on thick with this sort of like Dame Eden Everage kind of, you know, a hyacinth bouquet performance on stage.

And I realized people weren't picking up the layers maybe. And every talk I ever gave in the QA, I said, if I, if I could not be gay, I would push that button, you know?

And nobody ever like that never registered with people. All that they, why? I don't know.
All they got was being gay is okay now and being right-wing, being gay and right-wing is okay.

And I know that I pushed that button with the left to annoy them and because it was absurd at that time, but people never got the message

when I said, if I could possibly,

I never gave a speech in my life where I I told people go be gay. I said

my first ever appearance on television was with boy George like 20 years ago and I said I feel that something is wrong inside me

and I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate this and he's like no honey you're perfect just the way you are I can't do boy George but um you know I was like no no I feel that I feel that something is wrong in there and and everybody around the table just left you know like thinking like

oh there's a self-hating homosexual well

I'm not hate I wasn't hating myself I was hating the things that I was doing because I knew they were hurting me.

And I knew even then, and I never gave a speech in my whole life where I say, go be careful. Have you ever talked to other gay men who have the same feeling? Yeah.
Yeah.

I think because, I mean, not many of them will articulate it like I do because I am a little bit cuckoo and I don't mind kind of living in public and talking about my feelings.

Like my Twitter is just like this,

well, aside from the eight years missing, it's just this like insane stream of consciousness where I'll just say the most like ridiculous, absurd, outrageous things, but it's because people are getting it like a

tap straight in, you know? It's just what's going on in there today.

So I'm comfortable living that way and I'm comfortable expressing myself and talking about myself. And I think now I have a duty.

Now I have a responsibility to others because of because the message didn't land. Like I was, I was,

I was not intending to give birth to this huge generation of gay Republicans who now just, I think it's openly, like openly fine to, to, to traffic in babies and to be a gay Republican.

And I feel a great deal of responsibility for that. I hate myself for that a little bit.

Well, Illianopoulos, thank you for everything you said for your honesty. I appreciate it.
Thanks. And your insight, which is amazing.

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