Why Are You Gay? Milo Yiannopoulos Explains.

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Speaker 2 Of all the great memes and clips on the internet, Fat Kid Falls Off Bike being, of course, the top of the list,

Speaker 2 really in the last 13 years, 13 years this week, almost nothing created on this planet has surpassed in popularity or sheer hilarity an interview that took place on Ugandan television in December of 2012 on a show called Morning Breeze, the morning show of Kampala, Uganda, in which a trans activist, a woman who now identifies as a man, came on and was asked a series of questions by the host.

Speaker 2 And if you don't know what we're talking about, here is a two-second clip that reveals the essence of the conversation. Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 Let's play that again. Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 It's still the funniest thing that's ever been on the internet.

Speaker 2 But why is it funny? And why does almost everyone find it funny? Left, right,

Speaker 2 straight, gay?

Speaker 2 Well, because it's kind of the key question. And it's kind of the question that no one in the United States is allowed to ask.
Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 And of course, it's being asked by an East African with kind of a quaint, semi-colonial accent.

Speaker 2 And, you know, conservatives can laugh at it. Liberals can laugh at it.
Really, this is the kind of the only way a white liberal in the United States could ever laugh at a black person.

Speaker 2 If it's an African expressing non-PC views on homosexuality, why are you gay? And of course, people in the West laugh because the guy's an idiot. Why are you gay? We all know why you're gay.

Speaker 2 Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 Actually, we're laughing in part because we're not allowed to ask that question. It's settled, though no one's really explained what about it is settled.

Speaker 2 If you were to ask the average American, why are people gay? They would probably say, well, they're born that way. And then if you followed up with, well, how exactly does that work?

Speaker 2 They would have no idea and would tell you to shut up. Because again, like so many myths or things that we think we know, we don't really know.

Speaker 2 We can't really explain it, but we do know for dead certain we're not allowed to talk about it.

Speaker 2 So when some African morning show host in Uganda, wherever the hell that is, asks it out loud, we can't help but laugh nervously. Why are you gay?

Speaker 2 If you watch the whole interview, and actually it's worth watching because it's really revealing

Speaker 2 both about Uganda and about the West, the first thing you notice is how polite everybody is.

Speaker 2 That tone, why are you gay? continued throughout the entire interview, which lasted over an hour. Just watched it.

Speaker 2 And the morning show host, whether you like him or dislike him, was just unfailingly polite to the guest who was him or herself also unfailingly polite.

Speaker 2 And they were just sort of talking past each other. The trans activist couldn't really explain why he or she was gay or whether gay was different from trans or what was good about being gay.

Speaker 2 That was another question the host asked. Why would you want to be gay?

Speaker 2 And the trans activist just like didn't really have an answer.

Speaker 2 What was amazing was

Speaker 2 the sweetness of it. It was not a hate crime, not even approaching a hate crime.
No conversation like that could take place in the United States.

Speaker 2 But the host was coming from a position of total certainty that this is just weird and wrong. And that is the consensus in a lot of the world.
And it's certainly famously the consensus in Uganda.

Speaker 2 And the consensus in the United States across both parties and pretty much the whole educated population is they're horrible because they think homosexuality is wrong.

Speaker 2 And we know this because about 10 years later in Uganda, the legislature passed almost

Speaker 2 unanimously with only, I think, one dissenting vote,

Speaker 2 a law against something called aggravated homosexuality. Aggravated homosexuality, as of 2023, is a a death penalty offense in Uganda.
What? Aggravated homosexuality? A death penalty offense?

Speaker 2 That's medieval. But how is it defined in Uganda? Well, if you read it and you can because it's online,

Speaker 2 the Ugandan government

Speaker 2 defines aggregated homosexuality as gay rape of children, gay rape of the elderly who can't consent, people over 75, gay rape of people who are mentally deficient, and the intentional transmission of deadly diseases to another person.

Speaker 2 So it's rape and murder, effectively, are

Speaker 2 against the law, in fact, capital crimes in Uganda. Hmm.

Speaker 2 It's a little different than advertised, but you would never know it

Speaker 2 because the entire American political class erupted as one

Speaker 2 when this law passed in East Africa, thousands of miles away with a non-relevant trading partner with no real military, in other words, there's no actual reason to care about what Uganda does, but everyone here did care, bipartisanly.

Speaker 2 And we're actually not going to expect you to take our word for it. We're going to go right to the CIA for the answer, meaning Wikipedia.
This is the Wikipedia description of the response.

Speaker 2 President Joe Biden weighed in. This was two years ago.
This is 2023.

Speaker 2 President Joe Biden condemned the law, calling it, quote, a tragic violation of universal human rights and, quote, the latest development in an alarming trend of human rights abuses and corruption in Uganda.

Speaker 2 Corruption. So here, the Ugandans, the Ugandans

Speaker 2 had the temerity to exercise a democratic process using a legislature elected by... the people of Uganda to pass a law almost unanimously with one dissenting vote.
And that's corruption.

Speaker 2 It's almost as corrupt as the anti-gay marriage initiative in California that voters passed, but judges wisely struck down in the name of democracy. Okay, so that was Biden's response.

Speaker 2 But it wasn't just Biden. Here's Senator Ted Cruz, the self-described conservative from Texas.
Here's what he said. He tweeted this.
He put this in writing, as he so often does.

Speaker 2 And we're quoting, any law criminalizing homosexuality or imposing the death penalty for, quote, aggravated homosexuality is grotesque and an abomination. All civilized nations

Speaker 2 should join together in condemning this human rights abuse.

Speaker 2 So it's uncivilized to penalize gay rape or the intentional transmission of a deadly disease. That's uncivilized.

Speaker 2 Seems kind of civilized. But at the time, nobody agreed.
This was grotesque, the kind of thing that only Africans would do. It's one step step up from cannibalism.
Can you believe it?

Speaker 2 Penalizing gay rape and the intentional transmission of AIDS. What do I think of next?

Speaker 2 We'll throw you in a stew pot, savages.

Speaker 2 You'll notice that Uncle Ted called it an abomination, and the Anglican Communion agreed.

Speaker 2 Here's Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the rapidly dying Anglican Communion, which would include the Episcopal Church of the United States, the State Church of England.

Speaker 2 He wrote to the Archbishop of Uganda, Christian brother to Christian brother, to express his, quote, grief and dismay at the Church of Uganda's support for the Anti-Homosexuality Act.

Speaker 2 The head of the Church of England was filled with grief at the thought that rape would be banned and the intentional transmission of AIDS, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 But it didn't stop with expressions of grief and condemnation and tweets from Ted Cruz. No,

Speaker 2 It got right to the hard stuff, to the things that matter, meaning money and foreign aid.

Speaker 2 Here's the World Bank. Immediately, the World Bank swings into action.

Speaker 2 The World Bank announced it would halt lending to Uganda in response to the new law. No more lending.
No more money for you. We're cutting you off.

Speaker 2 The financial institution noted that the act, quote, fundamentally contradicts the World Bank group's values.

Speaker 2 Ooh, what are the World Bank's values? That'd be interesting to know.

Speaker 2 You know, in a sane country, contradicting the World Bank's, quote, values would be a sign of virtue, probably. Probably get a merit badge for that.
But the World Bank was outraged.

Speaker 2 They know sin when they see it. Banning gay rape will tolerate a lot, but not that.

Speaker 2 And then finally, Joe Biden in October of 2023, spun fully into a frenzy at this point, watching taking the lead of the World Bank, announced that Uganda would be expelled from the group of sub-Saharan African countries that benefit from tax breaks under the U.S.

Speaker 2 African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA,

Speaker 2 because of the country's, quote, gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, which violate the AGOA eligibility criteria.

Speaker 2 So that was 2023. So bottom line, no more money for you.

Speaker 2 What happened next? Well, Uganda Uganda didn't starved. Next year, there was a famine.

Speaker 2 I mean, not to laugh at famine, but it's almost unbelievable. So

Speaker 2 you ban

Speaker 2 gay rape of children and the elderly and the mentally disabled, and we're going to starve you out. And boy, did they.
The United States shut it down.

Speaker 2 International aid institutions followed suit. And the next year,

Speaker 2 Uganda had a famine that is still ongoing. 50% of children in Uganda today suffer the symptoms of malnutrition, stunted growth, anemia.
50%, half of all Ugandan kids are starving.

Speaker 2 And of course, Uganda has never been a rich country. It's had a lot of turmoil.
Edi Amin was from there. Uganda has some problems for sure.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the year after the West collectively withdrew aid from Uganda,

Speaker 2 billions in aid, they have a famine. And it's all because

Speaker 2 they banned gay rape of children. Okay.

Speaker 2 So I guess the point here is

Speaker 2 our values are pretty clear. We're for this

Speaker 2 and we're totally against questioning it. And if you do, we will hurt you.

Speaker 2 So what is that?

Speaker 2 Why are you gay? Maybe that's a question worth asking.

Speaker 2 But of course, nobody has. And then you wake up one morning and you realize that supporting homosexuality,

Speaker 2 which is very different from like not hating gays. No one should hate gays.

Speaker 2 And most Americans don't hate gays. In fact, most last time we met an American who did hate gays, but I don't know I ever have, at least in the past 30 years, no one hates gays.

Speaker 2 You know, a million gays and some of them are awesome people, work for you or your friends or whatever. It's not about hating gays.

Speaker 2 It's about being forced to say this is an affirmative good.

Speaker 2 And if you disagree with that, then you are affirmatively bad and we're going to stoke a famine in your country to punish you. That's literally where we are.

Speaker 2 And some of us should have been paying closer attention as this movement never formally declared, not the gay rights movement, but the terror against anyone who opposes gay rights, whatever those are, worshiping homosexuality.

Speaker 2 We should have paid closer attention. I'm going to refer you to one of the great clips of the entire Biden administration.

Speaker 2 When people look back on the Biden administration, there will be, of course, an endless loop of him falling off his bike or identifying his sister as his wife or clips designed to show how confused and senile this poor guy was.

Speaker 2 And those will, in a lot of ways, represent the administration.

Speaker 2 But it's the moment of clarity, those occasional moments of clarity where Biden was really saying something on purpose because he meant it and he wanted to tell you what was important.

Speaker 2 Those are the clips that actually define the four disastrous years of Joe Biden. And above all, I would argue this clip tells you everything you need to know about the values of the U.S.

Speaker 2 government, of our popular culture, of the West collectively. And once we understand the values, we can assess, are those the right values? And can a civilization continue with those values?

Speaker 2 But first, the clip. Here's Joe Biden describing a trip to downtown Wilmington, Delaware with his dad in 1962.

Speaker 4 I remember getting out of a car when I was trying to be dropped off at the local

Speaker 4 city hall to get a job to be the only white employee in the east side of town,

Speaker 4 in the neighborhood, in the projects

Speaker 4 as a lifeguard. My dad was dropping me off so I could go around the block, I'd run and get the application.
And two well-dressed men kissed one another as I was opening the door.

Speaker 4 And I hadn't seen that before. And I turned around and one walked off to the DuPont building, one walked off to what used to be called the Hercules Corporation.

Speaker 4 And I looked at my dad and he just looked at me and said, it's simple, honey. They love each other.
It's just basic. There's nothing complicated about it.
That's how I was raised, for real.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's the greatest clip ever. And there's just so much.
I mean, you could really spend all day getting Talmudic on it, just dissecting it and trying to figure out what it means.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's so many parts to this. First of all, Biden's dad called him honey.

Speaker 2 That's weird.

Speaker 2 What dad calls his boy honey, honey?

Speaker 2 Strange. And who knows what it means? Not implying anything, but it's weird.
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Speaker 2 But the main thing to notice is this is 1962 that this supposedly happened in downtown Wilmington, Delaware. And in 1962, what was the state of America's views about homosexuality?

Speaker 2 Not an individual gays. This has always been a very, very tolerant country for all minority groups, actually,

Speaker 2 by any global standard.

Speaker 2 But the country's official views on like gay sex, for example. Well, it was a felony in 49 states in the summer of 1962.

Speaker 2 The only state in which it was legal, Illinois, Illinois, had just legalized it several months before.

Speaker 2 So having gay sex in the United States when Biden claims this happened was a felony pretty much everywhere. A felony.

Speaker 2 Very few people ever went to jail for it because no one was really interested in enforcing it.

Speaker 2 But the laws of the United States mirrored those of pretty much every country in the world from then going back maybe to Athens. Like people have always been against this.

Speaker 2 It's always been officially discouraged by every single society. The question is why? That's worth a conversation at some point.
Probably not just random bigotry.

Speaker 2 If every society that we know about ever has had an official policy against gay sex or forms of gay sex.

Speaker 2 Why? Again, can you explain it to me without getting hysterical? Maybe there's a reason there. Who knows? But that was the state in the United States in the summer of 1962.

Speaker 2 So the idea that Joe Biden's drunk used car salesman dad turned to him, this brutish Irish guy who Biden has described many times and says, honey, honey,

Speaker 2 it's just love. It's okay.
It's just love. Two guys making out outside the DuPont building in downtown Wilmington.
It's totally normal.

Speaker 2 Is so transparently absurd.

Speaker 2 It's such an obvious attempt to graft modern values onto an antique setting that it's so clearly fake that amazingly no one laughed, but no one did laugh because no one was allowed to laugh.

Speaker 2 But that's absurd. Ask anyone who was alive in 1960s.
You just use common sense. That didn't happen.
But notice how Biden frames it.

Speaker 2 He said he was getting dropped off to get a job as the only white man working in the hood,

Speaker 2 breaking the color barrier. It wasn't just a summer job.
It was a victory for civil rights.

Speaker 2 And he was the kind of guy who would do that because his family had a long commitment to civil rights, as evidenced by his father's kind of casual acceptance

Speaker 2 of homosexuality. It's just love.
It's just love.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So what do we learn from that? Well, we learned that Biden's, of course, a fabulous. We knew that.

Speaker 2 But in this specific clip, he's lying for a reason to transmit to the nation its essential values. And at the very top of that list is we are for homosexuality.

Speaker 2 That's number one. It's right up there with civil rights.
People get to vote. People get to have K-sex.
That's America. That's our culture.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So it probably shouldn't surprise you that the self-reported incidence of homosexuality and its many varieties in the United States rose dramatically during that period.

Speaker 2 And here are roughly the numbers. So about a little over 10 years ago, 2012, among young people in the United States, about 6% said, yeah, I'm not heterosexual.

Speaker 2 So that would be in the range that, you know, we've been told for many years was natural, right?

Speaker 2 Maybe 10%, a little under 10% of people say they're not heterosexual and whatever, you know, gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, whatever, but they're not one man, one woman, monogamy people at all.

Speaker 2 So that was the number a little over 10 years ago. Last year, the number among young people was over 20%.

Speaker 2 So a little more than a decade, you have a threefold increase, 300% increase in self-identified non-heterosexual orientation in a little over 10 years.

Speaker 2 What are we looking at? Well, we're looking at demographic collapse, among other things.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 But what is the phenomena actually?

Speaker 2 Where does this come from? Or to put it in Ugandan terms, why are you gay?

Speaker 2 Well, let's see. We have been told for the course of my life that you're born gay.
It's like handedness or eye color or height. It's just something that you're born with.
God created you that way.

Speaker 2 You are unique. Your iris, your fingerprints, your sexuality, they're all unique to you.

Speaker 2 And that's something not to be embarrassed of, unless you're a white man, in which case, of course, slink away in shame, be denied admission to college or a job.

Speaker 2 For everyone else, your immutable characteristics are something that you celebrate, that you should be proud of. They not something that you chose.
They're not something you can change.

Speaker 2 And this is the story that all of us have been told. And most of us, me included, sort of kind of believe that.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And if that's true, of course, you could never, ever show bias against someone on the basis of his immutable characteristics because that's wrong. It's also unchristian.
And that is true.

Speaker 2 It is unchristian to attack someone on the basis of something with which you were born, of course.

Speaker 2 Really, no one has put this in clearer terms than the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana,

Speaker 2 the former transportation secretary, and as of today, the leading candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2028, Mr. Pete Buttijudge.
Here he is.

Speaker 7 I can tell you that if me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade.

Speaker 7 And that's the thing I wish the Mike Pence is of the world would understand.

Speaker 7 That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.

Speaker 2 Take it up with God. He made me this way.
Notice the self-seriousness, the sort of JFK-esque gaze into the distance. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.
Old drama queen. Yeah, maybe.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But that doesn't really answer the question. Why was Pete Buddha judge dating chicks for the first part of his adult life? By his own admission, he was dating women, like a bunch of women.

Speaker 2 He was openly heterosexual, including in the U.S. military after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
So it was totally legal to be gay in the military, but Pete was still heterosexual.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 the answer I think most people come to is, well, he was just ashamed of being gay. Like he couldn't be his true self.
He couldn't kind of let it out. Maybe that's true, though.

Speaker 2 Those of us who were living in the United States 10 years ago remembered that there was no sanction against being gay. Tons of gay television is filled with gay people.

Speaker 2 Those of us who worked in television aren't gay people, great gay people, actually, just being clear, really nice, good people all day long.

Speaker 2 There's nothing weird about being gay 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when Pete Buddha Judge was like, I couldn't come to terms with my own sexuality because his parents are so repressive.

Speaker 2 No, they were actually lifestyle liberals. They're big left-wingers, his parents.
So probably unlikely that his parents were like, don't be gay, son.

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Speaker 2 Six. So it's a completely fair question.
You were dating chicks not that long ago. A bunch of them.
And all of a sudden you're getting all self-serious about how God made you this way.

Speaker 2 Explain how that works. It's a totally fair question,

Speaker 2 especially since Pete Buttigiege's whole identity is wrapped up in being gay. His whole identity.

Speaker 2 It's not like Pete Buttigiege is running for president because he's had such an incredible career as a public servant. He fixed South Bend, Indiana.
He's still a really good mayor. Nobody thinks that.

Speaker 2 Ask anybody in South Bend.

Speaker 2 He was just a really good driver in the U.S. military who's an awesome transportation secretary.
He was a joke as a transportation secretary. Did air travel get better under Pete Buttijudge?

Speaker 2 Did the roads get fixed? Did anything improve in American transportation during Pete Budijudge's tenure as transportation secretary? No.

Speaker 2 He wasn't just lame. He was awful.
And in case you don't remember, here's his signature achievement as Secretary of Transportation, identifying racist roads.

Speaker 10 And the interstate system, the interstate system was built to keep certain groups in and certain groups out. So it it was built on a racist system, correct?

Speaker 11 Yeah, often this wasn't just an act of neglect. Often this was a conscious choice.
There is racism physically built into some of our highways.

Speaker 2 There was racism built into the highways. There was rebar and a concrete substrate, of course, gravel and then asphalt poured over the top.

Speaker 2 But mixed in there, probably in a drum at some point, was actual white racism. It was mixed into the roads, and that's why people to judge had to tear them up.

Speaker 2 That's it. That's a real clip.
That's not AI, as you may remember. Like, that's insane.
That was his tenure as Secretary of Transportation. Not

Speaker 2 being mean to him, and it's like not even worth dredging that up again, except to make the point that being gay isn't just this thing about Pete Buddhajudge.

Speaker 2 It's the whole point. of Pete Buddhajudge.

Speaker 2 It is the reason that he has the plurality of support from Democratic primary voters who are not black.

Speaker 2 His support among black voters, they're more in the, why are you gay camp?

Speaker 2 They're not impressed at all. In fact, I'm trying to do the math here.

Speaker 2 I think his support, Pete Potajudge's current support among African-American Democratic primary voters is, let's see, around zero.

Speaker 2 So 0% in that range, meaning nobody, like no black people. They're not going for it.
Why are you gay? You can can almost hear them saying that.

Speaker 2 But among white liberals, Pete Buddhajudge's gayness, the fact he's married to a dude called Chason

Speaker 2 and has somehow acquired babies somehow. How do you get babies? Just sort of buy them somewhere, whatever.
He has these babies.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he is the model of whatever, a modern gay man. That's the whole point.

Speaker 2 He is a civil rights hero because of who he sleeps with.

Speaker 2 Pretty amazing. So, two obvious points to make about that.
First, do you remember when they used to tell us, we don't care what happens in your bedroom? Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 We want to keep politics out of the bedroom. We want to keep politicians out of your bedroom.
This was a way to justify the Holocaust of abortion, of course, but the line sounded kind of appealing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, politicians probably stayed in my bedroom. That seems fair.
Now, your bedroom is the whole point.

Speaker 2 You've got politicians running on what they do in their bedroom. And on the Democratic side, succeeding.

Speaker 2 So that leads very obviously to the second point, which is there are a lot of rewards in store for someone in the Democratic Party, an ambitious politician, someone who really only cares about the goal, which in Pete Buddhajudge's case has always been becoming president.

Speaker 2 Is it bad to come out of the closet and announce that you're gay? No, no, no.

Speaker 2 That's like the only way you're going to get to the White House. That's the only way.
That's your ticket, being quote, gay.

Speaker 2 Huh.

Speaker 2 So given that that's obviously true, and given that this guy dated girls as an adult,

Speaker 2 it's totally fair to ask the question, why are you gay?

Speaker 2 Like, what is this?

Speaker 2 Starting to think that maybe it's not not genetic or entirely genetic. And if it is, show me the gene.
We've decoded the human genome.

Speaker 2 We can tell you where the gene for eye color comes from. Where's the gay gene? Maybe there is a gay gene, by the way.
Lots of things we haven't decoded yet. Maybe it's there.

Speaker 2 Are you looking for it? Are you trying to answer this question?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 The whole game is to make you be quiet, ashamed, because that's something to do with sex. And what are you, a creep? Focus on sex? You're obsessed with gay sex.
Sort of a variety.

Speaker 2 You're obsessed with Israel.

Speaker 2 Actually, not.

Speaker 2 But you're way up in my face about it.

Speaker 2 And so I think it's fair to ask you a couple of very simple, straightforward questions, foundational questions, like what is this? Where does it come from? Why is it good?

Speaker 2 Why is being gay better than not being gay?

Speaker 2 And if it's not 100% genetic,

Speaker 2 clearly isn't. If you've had a 300% increase in 10 years, probably not genetic,

Speaker 2 unless our genetics are changing at lightning speed, unless evolution is a much faster process than Darwin ever reckoned.

Speaker 2 If it's not entirely genetic, then what are the other factors?

Speaker 2 And since apart from moral concerns or the concerns of human happiness, does this actually make you happy? And what does it mean to live as a gay person in the United States?

Speaker 2 What exactly does that look like? Like, what's your life like?

Speaker 2 How many people do you have sex sex with? How are those unfair questions?

Speaker 2 Since you're the one throwing it in my face and telling me I'm not allowed to be against it, maybe I'm allowed to ask the questions I don't really want to ask, don't really want to know the answers to.

Speaker 2 But since you've made it the North Star of our moral system in the United States, since you're willing to starve an African country because they disagree with it, maybe it's time for me to ask those questions because you push me to.

Speaker 2 On this and a lot of other issues, if you just back off a little bit,

Speaker 2 if we could just return to the status quo of, say, 1985, where, yeah, they're gay people, they're great, they're off, you know, whatever, they're here, they're there, whatever, but they're not pushing gay sex on my kids in school.

Speaker 2 That's clearly not a good idea. Tell me why it is a good idea.
And of course, it's a crime to intentionally infect someone with an infectious disease.

Speaker 2 And of course, it's in fact the hallmark of civilization

Speaker 2 to make rape illegal, gay or straight. What?

Speaker 2 But since you blew up all those previous assumptions and now made them illegal,

Speaker 2 Uganda made this crime punishable by death. You made their law punishable by famine.
So who's more serious about it? You are.

Speaker 2 Since you did all of that, how about we just slowly, in a non-hysterical, obviously non-hateful way,

Speaker 2 ask, what are we looking at? Why are you gay? Why is that a good thing? What is it exactly?

Speaker 2 And there are a lot of people we could ask about this, but we thought, believe it or not, the most articulate person we know to answer these questions is Milo Yiannopoulos, who was very famous 10 years ago as a, what was he called, conservative provocateur,

Speaker 2 running around the country, making the case against liberals as an open, in fact, flamboyant gay man. And that was part of the shtick, right? It's like, we've got a gay guy too.

Speaker 2 What are you going to say now?

Speaker 2 You know, we've got black conservatives too. You can't call us racist we've got a gay conservative you can't call us homophobes

Speaker 2 and so milo was unleashed on the world and then in literally one day he was canceled really destroyed as a person

Speaker 2 um in a sort of non-scandal that

Speaker 2 like so many of that period and of this period, sort of took him right off the stage. You never heard from him again.

Speaker 2 But during the period when he was flitting around America on his dangerous faggot tour, spreading whatever it was, libertarian economics or something to the kids.

Speaker 2 It became obvious that this guy was actually really smart.

Speaker 2 You know, even for those of us who were never that interested in the dangerous faggot part of it,

Speaker 2 if you listen, you thought, well, this guy's not dumb at all. He's actually very thoughtful.

Speaker 2 Very thoughtful,

Speaker 2 high IQ guy who thinks about things.

Speaker 2 So over the last couple of years, during text conversations,

Speaker 2 I became aware that Milo had decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore. And I thought, that's kind of interesting.
I didn't know you could decide you didn't want to be gay.

Speaker 2 And then you read about it. And it turns out there's a whole industry movement and laws designed to prevent you from deciding not to be gay.
Huh?

Speaker 2 Parts of the United States have banned conversion therapies. You're not allowed to talk to a psychiatrist about not having same-sex attraction.
Wow. What is that?

Speaker 2 It's like once you're in, you can't get out. It's like mandatory gayness.
What the hell are we looking at?

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Speaker 2 And so it seemed worth a sit-down conversation. with Milo Yiannopoulos and just ask him sincere questions like, what is this? Why did you decide to change? What's it like changing?

Speaker 2 What does it mean to be gay in the United States specifically?

Speaker 2 And so that conversation follows, and we hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 2 You're really nice to do this. I'm glad you came.
I want to begin with.

Speaker 2 No, I'm actually really interested. I'm interested in this topic.
I've never been interested in it, but I want to begin by asking you. It's icky, isn't it? It's icky.

Speaker 2 Well, sort of and personal, but you know, it's occurred to me, particularly when I have interviewed Republican politicians, particularly neocons over the years. When sexuality comes out, comes up.

Speaker 2 Well, I've always wanted to say in a Ugandan accent. Are you gay? Why are you gay? So let me let me ask: are you gay? Were you gay? Like, what is gay? Nobody's gay.
Nobody's gay.

Speaker 2 After that clip, which is the best thing on the internet, he changes the question, the interrogative, to a declarative. He says, Why are you gay? And she starts, you know, it starts talking.

Speaker 2 He says, You are gay.

Speaker 2 It becomes a statement. And this is where he goes, this is where he loses me because

Speaker 2 nobody is gay.

Speaker 2 We've been encouraged to think of this. It's an icky subject.
Like straight men don't want to think of it. No, no, it's okay.
I mean, it's, it's reached.

Speaker 2 You invited me. Well, I invited you because I have not, you know,

Speaker 2 not wanted to be engaged with the topic at all. I don't have strong, super strong personal feelings about it, but all of a sudden,

Speaker 2 it has become like a defining fact of the West that we have a huge gay population. Like, Like, what does that mean? Sodomy.

Speaker 2 Giving aid

Speaker 2 with strings attached. So I was told, what metaphor am I reaching for strings attached?

Speaker 2 Yes, you can, but only if you have a gay pride festival. Right.

Speaker 2 What is that? Yes. Exactly.
What is that? Yes, it has been. And all of these things, and

Speaker 2 with the collapse in people identifying as trans, you're beginning to now see what some of us have always known about homosexuality, which is that this is a product.

Speaker 2 I mean, there are some people, obviously, who were probably always going to be gay, Tammy Bruce.

Speaker 2 But, you know, like maybe she might be the only real lesbian. She might be the only real lesbian.
I believe when Tammy Bruce tells me that she was only ever into women, I believe her.

Speaker 2 You know, and I like her, by the way. I think she's great.
But she's like the only real lesbian.

Speaker 2 With gay men, which is completely different,

Speaker 2 we see the numbers go up, the numbers go down.

Speaker 2 This is not without some change in environmental factors, this doesn't make sense if we believe the old lie born this way, if we believe what was in fact invented in the 1980s as a public relations strategy born this way.

Speaker 2 So what happened back in the days?

Speaker 2 Gays were in the 80s and with the AIDS and all the rest of it wanting to

Speaker 2 be out and proud and to wear their sins on their sleeves. And somebody came up with this

Speaker 2 idea

Speaker 2 which which caught on and worked.

Speaker 2 It was twofold. One One is, well, what if we say that being gay is like being black or being a woman? Yes.

Speaker 2 Then they're a bigot. We're not weird.

Speaker 2 And so it takes the religious, the moral majority's sinful lifestyle choice argument and it screws them because now they're saying like, you're wrong to be a girl or you're wrong to be a black.

Speaker 2 Exactly. It was invented.
It was invented wholesale by the activists in the 1980s.

Speaker 2 And the second part of it was, and this is in a book called After the Ball, which is kind of defined how gay activists were going to,

Speaker 2 well, it really, it was very influential because it was really the book that told gay activists how to get this revolting sin that most people don't even want to think about up front and center, family friendly, and ultimately to the state where we let them adopt children,

Speaker 2 which is the whole thing we'll get into. And that was, don't talk about bodily functions.
Don't talk about effluvia. Just talk about love.

Speaker 2 Just talk about love. Talk about it in terms of love, like love is love, love wins.
And we see this to the present day.

Speaker 2 Never talk about, you know, the stains on the sheets, the promiscuity, the drugs, the glory holes in Berlin nightclubs. Never talk about any of those things because those things will repel women.

Speaker 2 And you need moms with gay sons to affirm. their homosexuality.
And so what is that homosexuality? Long answer for a short question, I understand.

Speaker 2 In almost every case, and in certainly in every male case, it is a trauma response. It is not a sexuality.

Speaker 2 It is not part of what you are or who you are or a component of your personality or a function of.

Speaker 2 It is a set of behaviors that

Speaker 2 emerges in people with a number of very easily identifiable common

Speaker 2 etiologies. One of them is,

Speaker 2 well, so for instance,

Speaker 2 among gay, excuse me, among black and Jewish Americans, they report statistically significantly higher rates of homosexuality. Why could that be?

Speaker 2 Overbearing moms and absent dads, or in the Jewish case, nebbish fathers. And, you know,

Speaker 2 like Jewish,

Speaker 2 my Jewish friends, I always call their marriages are like lion-taming, you know, where you have a sort of nebbish, scholarly, bookish dad and a larger-than-life mom who, you know, one day decides she's going to be a rabbi.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 that or in the black community of course is the fatherlessness and it's why why if you're born this way if you don't have some other better explanation could it be the case that there are more gays among black and jewish populations where something's going on here why are we getting more trans and more gays and then less gays and then less why because this is in fact a symptom in fact this is a product of something it's the result of something well this was freud's position which was kind of conventional wisdom for the better part of 100 years, that this was a response to the environment and particularly to the relationship with the mother that a young boy has and a relationship with his father.

Speaker 2 I mean, this was, this was like,

Speaker 2 people just assumed that was true when I was a kid. They were not gay haters or homophobes.
That just, that was a state of knowledge on the subject.

Speaker 2 One of the only things Freud got right was that.

Speaker 2 And it's funny that, you know, the way that that's actually in line with the Catholic Church teaching and now has become, now you see the the terminology in the medical industry has begun to change as well because, you know,

Speaker 2 now gay people are sort of saturated everywhere.

Speaker 2 You know, like when you get a, it's kind of like America, you get a whole country full of people who are very similar, but will think they're really, really individual.

Speaker 2 That's deep. P.S.

Speaker 2 Yes, I do know what that looks like. And,

Speaker 2 you know, sort of America is a very faggotized country in all kinds of ways. That's the technical term.

Speaker 2 If you want to know the truth about homosexuality, you've got to go to Black YouTube and listen to the girls.

Speaker 2 How do you get to Black YouTube, by the way?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, it's a sort of tumbling, it's a tumbling kind of thing. You find one good video by somebody who's like,

Speaker 2 Steph Carrey, you're packetized.

Speaker 2 Sorry. And then,

Speaker 2 you know, you'll tumble through the algorithm. I'll send you some links.
I'll post some links on my Twitter.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I dare, but you're saying that's the more honest YouTube.

Speaker 3 It's the only honest YouTube.

Speaker 2 It's the only honest anything. Um, because uh, you go past the churches and you'll see, you know, the white homo demon stealing your man.

Speaker 2 And it's not the pastor who comes up with this stuff, it's his wife. It's his wife who's got this, you know, who was trying to set her girlfriend up with somebody, and that was all great.

Speaker 2 Um, but but uh, but he went

Speaker 2 off with a dude, or which is, you know, like even which is sort of uh equi um uh distant for them from going off with a white girl or whatever.

Speaker 2 But uh, no, you the the only honest place where you know people will just be like

Speaker 2 did it fagatas, you know, and then they'll go and then

Speaker 2 amazing LeBron faggotize and they'll go they'll go through it all. I mean, the for me, the nipless ultra of this genre would be um a black china's mum.
Do you know who that is?

Speaker 2 No, of course you don't. You remind me of a line from Black Adder sometimes, you know, because you have this sort of like lovely kind of like ingenue kind of thing that you do.

Speaker 2 Um, uh, and it's like, well, no, I've just, I was, I don't know anything. Um, but do you remember that line from Black Adder?

Speaker 2 Like, uh, slumbering altrogenarians who claim never to have heard of the Beatles.

Speaker 2 No, but I get it. He's talking about high court judges.
I've never actually heard of Black Adder before, so I

Speaker 2 you're kidding. I'm actually not.
What?

Speaker 2 I don't even know what you're talking about. But that's okay.
It's not about me. I'm just trying to say.
How Stephen Fry and Rowan Atkinson got famous.

Speaker 2 You don't know Black Adder. I don't know.
There are huge gaps.

Speaker 2 I'm not a knowledge of the people.

Speaker 2 Jesus and the orphans. Well, you say this, yes.
But anyway,

Speaker 2 so Tokyo Tony is her name. And she's, anyway, you can Google Tokyo Tony.
That's your end to black everything.

Speaker 2 Anyway, she's great. There's a whole, I mean, I mean, YouTube, now, the only interesting bits of YouTube that still get views are like these black shows.

Speaker 2 They're like, oh, these massively overproduced shows with these incredibly elaborate sets. And they've got like, you know, 43 people live watching.
But the archives and the clips go crazy. Anyway.

Speaker 2 Man, I've got got a series of delights ahead of me. Well, you don't have many black people on the show, so you've got me instead.

Speaker 2 I'll be your African-American contingent. I'll introduce you to these things.
So, no, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 So, this is you're describing a world into which a lot of conventional propaganda has not yet filtered. Well, it's resistant to it or something.
It's interesting because why are you gay? Are you gay?

Speaker 2 The origin of

Speaker 2 of of the of the born this way i've just i've just described or just explained yeah the um the reality is that um these communities who experience this problem a lot right the black community particularly because of fatherlessness a lot of gay black kids there's just a lot of them um have this very blunt and truthful i mean i mean look

Speaker 2 looking at me now It's impossible to imagine that I used to be a homosexual.

Speaker 2 It hadn't entered my mind. No, but

Speaker 2 I knew you during your flaming stage. So

Speaker 2 I had heard. No, yeah, yeah.
But but but there are so many like

Speaker 2 flaming young black men in America today, especially.

Speaker 2 And this is a problem this community is dealing with. And they don't, you know, black America is like commendably impervious to a lot of the

Speaker 2 woke PC language stuff. You know, like very creditably skeptical of vaccines.
Yes. They won't go along with a lot of the stuff like, you know, the proposition, whatever, in California, gay marriage.

Speaker 2 Why? It's black women who are like holding on the fall. That's why I love Candice Owens so much.

Speaker 2 You're like, the ungovernability of black women is the only thing that might possibly save America, you know, as embodied in our friend Candice, who is just like, you know, she's ungovernable in the best possible way.

Speaker 2 She's not going along with it.

Speaker 2 She isn't. To put it mildly, yeah.

Speaker 2 She is not going along with it. And Candace is a very beautiful, polished, you know, intelligent

Speaker 2 sort of microcosm of a trend that you see everywhere in black america now which is like ain't doing that ain't doing that definitely ain't doing that wow and and and it's very interesting so so

Speaker 2 um they will be very resistant to this stuff they kind of intuit what white people i think have forgotten because you know we're just also like bomb boats of weakened demoralized and like kind of overburdened with this nonsense the truth is that

Speaker 2 homosexuality and in particular conversion therapy is the first thing upon which the liberals liberals tried what they later did to Trump, which is just this wall of

Speaker 2 fake news, misinformation, propaganda.

Speaker 2 It's the first time, I mean, there's other examples around wars and things like that, but when it comes to social issues, it's the first time I think the press just says, oh, hell no, except they didn't do that because they're white, but you know, they said

Speaker 2 sometimes I lose the characters, get confused.

Speaker 2 I'm going to put Rwanda away. No, so

Speaker 2 the first time that the media decides this is a social issue we care about enough because we don't lose our gay friends,

Speaker 2 that we're going to just lie and demonize and give the full fake news treatment that we later saw in its most sophisticated form leveraged, praise God unsuccessfully, against Trump again and again and again, right?

Speaker 2 So they start off with this, you know, you were born this way, Heiny, you are born this way, Heiny, you are beautiful, whatever you are. No, you're like that because you got raped by a priest.

Speaker 2 Or you're like that because your mom was overbearing and your dad wasn't around. Or you're like that because you failed to form

Speaker 2 a platonic, stable attachments to other men as a child. For some reason, maybe you didn't have a good male role model or whatever.

Speaker 2 But there is a relatively small number of identifiable and repeated etiologies that mark somebody out as being, you know,

Speaker 2 vulnerable to this. And you look into the histories of gay people, they will all deny it.
I say, no, it's just me. But it's not.

Speaker 2 And they know, they know, because I knew, and they know, and I talk to them privately when there's no cameras that I could squeeze it out of them. Eventually, that you get there.

Speaker 2 Yes, there's something about their sexual activity they know isn't right. And it's not just in the technical sense that the sex is sterile and therefore can never be part of

Speaker 2 the holy sacrament of marriage because it can't be co-procreation with God, right? Yes. Co-procreation with God, meaning

Speaker 2 you make a physical body with your wife, but then God puts a soul in.

Speaker 2 And that's why it's the most precious sacrament, because you do the others, you do your confirmation, the rest of it, but it's leading up to you getting to make something with God, right?

Speaker 2 Which is the real reason that Lucifer is so mad because the angels can't do that, right? The angels don't get to participate in creation with our Lord, but every single human being does.

Speaker 2 And you feel that too when you have kids. Even if you don't know what it is, you feel there's something supernatural going on here.
This is going to sound completely pathetic, but

Speaker 2 I have

Speaker 2 some kind of pathetic simulacrum of it. Now I've become a cat dad, just in the terms of like caring for something helpless.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And it's bringing out of me something that I know is going to lead to fatherhood because I'm responsible for this being

Speaker 2 that loves and laughs and they do, you know, and

Speaker 2 requires regular, not just maintenance, but affection and to be tended to and loved. Like I love dogs.
I'm like, I used to be more of a dog guy, but

Speaker 2 I live in a house on the National Register of Historic Places, so I can't have dogs.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so I just, I got a cat one day, you know, just because just because somebody found it in an engine. And I was like, I'm so alone.
So

Speaker 2 I said, sure, I'll give me the, give it, give it a, give it a, give it a damn kitten. And at that point, I wasn't sure I was going to drown it, wear it, or, or, or, or, or, or nurture it.

Speaker 2 Um, but, but I was just like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 And being responsible for shaping the personality, which anybody who has animals, who loves animals knows that is 100% real.

Speaker 2 Responsible for shaping the personality, nurturing that being into either being a parent itself or just into being a companion or to being the best that it can be, right?

Speaker 2 It's bringing something out in me, you know, that wasn't present when I was having a lot of what most people would regard as, well, what homosexuals would regard as very desirable kind of sex, you know, with a particular kind of person or whatever.

Speaker 2 So this, you get to the base of it, and

Speaker 2 you get to the heart of it if you're sort of one-on-one with a gay, but they will, they won't just talk about the emptiness of their life or the fact that the sex is sterile or whatever.

Speaker 2 They will know that there's something not quite right. And so

Speaker 2 that it's there at something that was not quite right. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Oh, yeah.
Okay. Big time.

Speaker 2 So, you know, there's that moment when your mind is flooded and it's all you can think about. Yes.
And it's all that you can.

Speaker 2 you got to get it out because if you don't do a line or have a smoke or do something,

Speaker 2 if you don't get it out, it's just going to be all that you can think about for the rest of the day. It's just driving you crazy because it floods your mind.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've been addicted to one or two little things.

Speaker 2 And I realized my sex works the same way. I believe that.
I realized that when I was on a plane,

Speaker 2 I'm sitting down,

Speaker 2 hey, Team one A, I'm sitting on the plane, I'm like, yeah, I'll have a gentle tonic girl.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, like a basketball player, well, not basketball player or gay nerds, but like a football player would sit next to me. Like it would take hold of me.

Speaker 2 There were times I had to like go to the bathroom and like, you know,

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 I had to get rid of it because it was, it was taking hold of my mind. It sounds like a demon.
Yeah. Because it's what it is.
I joke, I say Gorgoroth the semen demon. You know, he comes out the way.

Speaker 2 He doesn't visit me very often anymore. You know, but it's like.
It's totally real. I mean, that stuff is all

Speaker 2 real.

Speaker 2 But I realized that, so I don't do cocaine anymore, but I, you know, it'll shock people to learn I used to be a bit of a cokehead.

Speaker 2 You know, when I was,

Speaker 2 you know, that rush of dopamine, the rituals associated with it as well, you know, I was like, oh my God, that's, that's how I feel about sex. And that's, that can't be right.
It can't be right.

Speaker 2 No, it's a, it's literally a, I'm not just talking about gay sex, but any, that is literally a perversion. Yes.

Speaker 2 And it is a demon, and it's also other things too, because these things go hand in hand. You know, may I ask how in your own, if it's not too personal, how did you wind up? We're there now, aren't we?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I think we are.

Speaker 2 No, but

Speaker 2 I just told you I wanked on U81726.

Speaker 2 I cracked one out in the bathroom.

Speaker 2 People are never going to sit next to me on planes again. I think we're good.
Anyone who's ever been, well, I drank alcohol in the morning. I mean, you know, anyone who's ever been possessed.

Speaker 2 I'm British. That doesn't count.
No, I'm just going to give it a break. But I'm just going to give me a real one.

Speaker 2 Anyone who's ever been possessed by an obsession knows that it can totally destroy your behavior. But

Speaker 2 we spend so much time talking in our society about, you know, gay and it's all good. Of course, you know, gay is good and gay rights are good.
In fact, they're the marker of human rights.

Speaker 2 So the only human right, really.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 this is the only human right people still care about.

Speaker 2 Your right to be sodomized, your right to wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, okay, you're ready to go. Are you? And hear that voice in your mind.
And it's not a sultry voice.

Speaker 2 It's not a sexy voice. It's go and get it.
It's, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's Gorgoroth. Anyway, sorry, I'm interrupting you, but

Speaker 2 that's dark. I've thankfully never, it's one of the few problems I don't have, but I

Speaker 2 get it.

Speaker 2 That's why grinder's so dangerous, you know, it's just like within 20 minutes, they can be in the living room. You know.
I want to ask you about that.

Speaker 2 But first, let me ask you about your own life because you never get to ask, you know, everyone's telling you how proud they are to be gay, and that's great. And all that.

Speaker 2 It's a sin, by the way. Pride is a sin.
Well, I agree with that. But

Speaker 2 you never get to ask, like,

Speaker 2 how did this, how did you start being gay? Like, it was specifically described with, you know, the way I remember it. PG way, right?

Speaker 2 If you insist. No, the way I remember.
We've done enough, I know. The way I remember it is I just did it to piss off my mother, but that's not true.

Speaker 2 I think that's that's self-mythologization. You know, like I did, and I did take a lot of drug dealers home when I was.

Speaker 2 Were you close to your mom?

Speaker 2 When I was in high school. She married.
So

Speaker 2 I'll answer your question. I'll skip back first.
Let me do that first. So my dad is in organized crime.

Speaker 2 Funny, charismatic, brilliant.

Speaker 2 There are things about like

Speaker 2 maybe Alex Jones that remind me of him a little bit, just in that kind of like, just assisted in manner, you know,

Speaker 2 like a bit of a bruiser, but with a heart, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like he's a bad guy with a heart of gold. Yeah, you know, like.
I've known a few. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, like, I cleave to that kind of personality.

Speaker 2 It reminds me a little bit of the good bits of my dad, right?

Speaker 2 But there was another section which Alex does not have, which, which, which was that, you know, he was a bad guy and I saw him do really bad things to people. I would come down.

Speaker 2 I've told this story before, but I would come down sometimes, the kitchen door would be closed, and I would hear, you know, Nikki, Nikki, I'm giving up a life of crime. I'm turning over a new leaf.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to do anything that's going to give me any more than 18 months.

Speaker 2 You know, it's funny.

Speaker 2 It's all about goals, Milo.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But he was a bad guy, and I saw him do things that really frightened me.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, he was in pubs and nightclubs in a,

Speaker 2 you know, running, running the clubs and the security and sort of like, you know,

Speaker 2 he's gone now, so I can say it, laundering millions. Yeah.
Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Between those two, you know, like the security. These security guards are on $120 an hour, huh? Yeah.
Yes. Yes, officer.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Aren't you? Tell Tell them it. Tell them what you're on.
It's like 110, 120, 120, you know.

Speaker 2 So he used to let me sit in the, in the booth and like do the stamps and I would watch people go in and I'd watch the behaviors of like low socioeconomic white working class like in their 20s, just, you know, just drinking, effing, you know.

Speaker 2 And, and

Speaker 2 then I saw some of the things my dad did. And they would start with that joke.
They'd start with that very charming joke. They'd They'd start with that alluring joke.

Speaker 2 And my dad had like a degree in, my dad had a master's in fine art. He was a great sculptor and painter.

Speaker 2 But that was the charming bit of him. The dark bit was, you know, like he would say to people,

Speaker 2 can I use bad language on the show? Yes. Yes, you may.
Because you can bleep it. But my dad would say, like,

Speaker 2 listen, just because you're in a wheelchair, don't give you the right to be a cunt.

Speaker 2 He would grab the wheelchair, spin it around and like walk people up to, you know, like to parking lot edges and stuff like that. And I'm sitting in the car like

Speaker 2 um you know or he'd go collecting yeah which means protection rackets and he would um

Speaker 2 and he would uh um

Speaker 2 you know i would overhear like julian can you take your glasses off please

Speaker 2 i don't want to get glass in my finger when i poke your eye out

Speaker 2 you know it's very charming very funny like very tony soprano kind of like that kind of the ilk you know um

Speaker 2 but but i saw some of it and i think maybe somewhere in my head i was like yeah if that's being a man, I think I'm out. Cause I was a child.
I was frightened.

Speaker 2 And then my mother left him and married a new guy. And he was very like,

Speaker 2 he's sort of a nice guy now, but, but

Speaker 2 he would go through all my stuff. Like if I had papers, you know, if I was reading something for school or whatever, he would like, when I was out, go through every page.

Speaker 2 and just sort of leave it like this. Just that I knew that he'd been in there, you know?

Speaker 2 And that kind of like invasive, like, like just horrifying, like, you know, it was just for a very sensitive, autistic child like me.

Speaker 2 I were already on my way then, you know, having, I had a much larger than life grandmother who was like, you know, egging this stuff on.

Speaker 2 And by this time, I had had some interactions, sexual interactions with a Roman Catholic priest who's dead now. It's been dead for a long time.

Speaker 2 But that had obviously, you know, that fed into it as well. Wait, wait, stop, stop.

Speaker 2 That obviously fed into it. Right.
Well, if you're rapping the last,

Speaker 2 yeah. Well, yeah.
Also, the molestation. No, but really for me, this is, this is the most important to do the other stuff first before you get.
Oh, and I was raped by by a priest.

Speaker 2 But this sort of psychological torture

Speaker 2 as I experienced it was, you know, sort of like, so I had no private space anywhere. And I knew that all the men in my life were just not things I wanted to become.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And then I cast my, see, if you let me get to it, then I cast my mind back to a lovely old rich man in a frock, Father Michael. And I, you know, and I, yeah.
And I...

Speaker 2 and I who had not been like that with me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 one of the things that got me into trouble 10 years ago was when I said I felt like the kind of the aggressor in that situation. I didn't know what bad stuff it had done to me.

Speaker 2 And at that time, I didn't.

Speaker 2 You know, I made a couple of jokes that got GOP Inc. hot and bothered because they're all faggots.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they weren't happy about some of the truths that we're talking about today kind of toppling out, you know.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 these things combined,

Speaker 2 having what I perceived to be at that time, I perceived as a child to be consensual sexual experiences with an older man who was a kindly,

Speaker 2 kindly sweetheart. You know, he was, I think of him now as a harmless old queen, you know? Of course, what he was doing was not harmless.

Speaker 2 Well, you have a right to any opinion you want about the experiences that happened to you. Apparently not.

Speaker 2 I've been retired for some time as a result.

Speaker 2 Well, I continue to believe that people are allowed to formulate their own opinions about their own lives. I think you should be able to talk about your rape however you like.

Speaker 2 I don't agree with that. And not necessarily have to go on live international television and apologize for it like I did, but I'm not better.

Speaker 2 Fortunately, I carved out a much...

Speaker 2 I have a new kind of career and a new life now that I much prefer. It's more satisfying, lucrative, blah, blah, blah.
We'll do it later. So I haven't gone crazy like so many of my friends.

Speaker 2 And it's funny watching them because I see some of the, in the way that their personalities have become kind of empty and shrouded and become filled with wickedness, I see some of the things that I have been working over the last 10 years to get away from that created this sexual behavior.

Speaker 2 They've become facetized.

Speaker 2 Well, there does seem to be

Speaker 2 a connection, but it does.

Speaker 2 You know, the incidence of closeted homosexuality on the right is like

Speaker 2 overwhelming. It's like way above what you would imagine statistically probable.
Three straight guys on the right. It's like Alex, you, and I have a floating wild card, just in case I forgot anybody.

Speaker 2 What else is that? I mean, maybe the Tates, but who else is there? What is that?

Speaker 2 I don't understand that. There's such a long,

Speaker 2 there's such a long relationship, a long happy marriage between conservative politics and homosexuality. And it's easy to joke about it and say, oh, it's,

Speaker 2 you know, all of the bells and smells and frocks of the religious dimension to it all, or it's the pomp and circumstance of power.

Speaker 2 But a New Testament is really tough on homosexuality. So I don't see it as a, that's not, certainly not a Christian thing.

Speaker 2 It's not a Christian thing, but of course it's easy to understand with the sort of obscene, obese heresies of the type that obtain in this country.

Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, in a country where prosperity gospel can thrive,

Speaker 2 who would be surprised, right? It's not an authentic face as we would know it.

Speaker 2 I sometimes teach you about your denomination, but episcopalian uh episcopalian church is is is as close to us as it's possible to get and was designed to be um a mirror to high anglicanism which was indistinguishable from catholicism and that you know at its sorry at its best it's it's a very similar um uh creed you know to and and and with very similar style and similar beliefs you know yeah so but but but as soon as you wander away from that in America, it just like mentally.

Speaker 2 So, but what is it, and I'm not attacking anybody, and I never want to out people because i don't you know it's not my business right

Speaker 2 i've never done it and uh i mean maybe i live i live to out people i live to out people on which subject corey booker um i let i'm sorry did you say but what is that why is there why is it so common on the right well of course on the left too but on the right with closeted gaze like i don't get an interesting question i've never heard a really good answer to i'll be honest with you uh i suppose i should have a good answer to that that, but I don't.

Speaker 2 But I think if it's about anything, it's about the exercise of power over others. Yes.

Speaker 2 I feel that. I have no idea exactly why that's true, but I feel that that's true.
What's the worst thing about magic?

Speaker 2 It's not that you can turn a person into a frog or you can make yourself look more beautiful or you can whatever. What's the worst thing about magic?

Speaker 2 Is that it robs others of agency, that you can make them do things they don't want to do.

Speaker 2 The worst and most sinister bit of magic is that you can trick someone someone or compel someone against their will to fall in love with you or to or to throw themselves off a cliff.

Speaker 2 That's kind of slavery. Exactly.

Speaker 2 The most frightening thing about magic is its ability to compel the wills of others.

Speaker 2 And that's what I think homosexuals are seeking when they, because they feel so powerless in their own lives and have this understanding that they are broken people without agency over their own sex lives.

Speaker 2 over their bodies, over that down there. Like, I don't even have control over me, but I'm I'm damn well going to have control over you.
Like, that's, I think, a lot of it.

Speaker 2 And so, if you, if you dovetail that in with the.

Speaker 2 I know you're telling the truth here. I don't fully understand what you're saying, but it comports with a lot of what I've seen.
I feel as though if you...

Speaker 2 If you are a person who intuits that you have a lack of control, of power, of agency over your own drives, your own desires, your own

Speaker 2 urges, and even your biological, anatomical,

Speaker 2 your physical responses, like I can't stop getting aroused by men. What is that?

Speaker 2 You're going to want to exercise power elsewhere over others. That's so interesting.
And

Speaker 2 being sucked into the nexus of intersectional blah blah blah,

Speaker 2 you're going to be tempted by explicit magic as well as the implicit magic

Speaker 2 of whatever. And so, you know, dovetail that with right-wing authoritarianism.
And

Speaker 2 I have to say, I'm sorry to say it, I must say it.

Speaker 2 Some

Speaker 2 dimensions, in some respects, I can see that that might be something that attracts homosexuals to the Catholic Church, for instance.

Speaker 2 Just the illusion of being a bishop. I mean, or National Review Magazine.
Well, you know, which is you don't just say me. It's all right.
I'm happy to talk about the

Speaker 2 Catholic element of it. I mean, the bishops are all faggots.
I mean, they're all whoopsies.

Speaker 2 They're all whoopsies?

Speaker 2 Gays.

Speaker 2 I like that one.

Speaker 2 It contains within it a kernel of the sort of slapstick that I think we have to. One of the ways I got myself off it was

Speaker 2 imagining myself in that situation as ridiculous. Like, I can't even perceive that I would do something so ridiculous.

Speaker 2 Like, laughing at it became, because you know, I laughed as the death of arousal, right? Totally exactly.

Speaker 2 I read this, some, I read that, or, or, I, or, or, or something like that went off from the bottom. Anyone who's never been laughed at naked can tell you that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, never have.
But

Speaker 2 I haven't either.

Speaker 2 No, but I mean, you know, like, it's, it's, it's, I think it's a favorite, famous like British, uh, particularly a British like injunction, you know, that laughter is the death of arousal or whatever.

Speaker 2 Um, uh, and

Speaker 2 I just thought, okay, well, how about if I start thinking about it as ridiculous? Because it is ridiculous. I mean, like you and the football team, like it is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 Uh, and so that's one of the ways I go to it. But, but no, this, this, this, that is so true.

Speaker 2 Uh,

Speaker 2 seeing themselves as powerless even to control their own bodies and knowing on some level, I think homosexuals seek out those places.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you see almost

Speaker 2 why you might want to bomb Iran in Venezuela. Yeah, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, what's gayer? What's gayer?

Speaker 2 I'm not saying he was practicing homosexual physically, but is there anything gayer than John McCain's like bloodlust?

Speaker 2 Seen through this

Speaker 2 or his protégés. Seen through this prism.
I mean, he's even got the fat friend. It's his daughter.

Speaker 2 You know, like,

Speaker 2 he even bred the fat best friend. You know, like,

Speaker 2 is there a more ostentatious fag hag in America than Megan McCain? You know, she hates herself. She's fat.
She's crazy. She's every gay man's dream.
You know, she can't dress.

Speaker 2 You know, she's

Speaker 2 why is that every gay man's dream?

Speaker 2 Because they want to visit upon their female friends

Speaker 2 the cruelty they wish that they could perform on their mothers.

Speaker 2 Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 They want to make her feel fat and ugly and ridiculous because that's what their mother did to them. And there was no dad around to protect them.

Speaker 2 And their mother was just this overbearing, terrible, you know, sort of the Jungian devouring mother.

Speaker 2 All of this has been banned in the United States. So I don't even think people are familiar with these concepts anymore.
Right. So I'll try to keep it simple.

Speaker 2 Imagine like.

Speaker 2 Imagine like a female like Lutheran pastor or

Speaker 2 a female Jewish rabbi. And they're this like, you know, hey, it's great to grieve.

Speaker 2 That's for a TV show, but you know, you know, one of those, right? This is horrible, overbearing monstrousness that on some level, the homosexual knows is what's made him like this.

Speaker 2 Because dad wasn't around, so mom did it, right? This is why, by the way, this is why trans was so popular, because it got parents off the hook.

Speaker 2 If you've got a gay kid, you know, you did something, but if your kid has a disease and was born into the wrong body, well, that's not your fault, is it?

Speaker 2 And you get all this sympathy and oh, all your friends were like, oh, do you got a trans kid? How tough are you? No, you got a faggot because you raise a faggot because you're a terrible parent.

Speaker 2 You know, that's what's really going on. They want to avoid that.
So instead, no, I'm going to chop its ding-dong off and say it's got a disease. Like, that's why it was so popular with single moms.

Speaker 2 Amazing. Amazing.
That's why, that's why trans was so popular with single moms. Um, because it got them off the hook, it means they didn't turn their son gay when they know they did.

Speaker 2 They know they did. They know they did, and the sons know they did.
And the sons grow up being cruel to women

Speaker 2 because of what mom did did to them.

Speaker 2 So they're hostile toward their moms, even though

Speaker 2 most gay men I say had

Speaker 2 close, right?

Speaker 2 But it's a toxicity.

Speaker 2 It's a codependent relationship that they know is, they can't.

Speaker 2 So sometimes they can't visit this cruelty on their mom because they have this close relationship with their mom, but they do it on other women.

Speaker 2 It's redirected, right? It's transferred onto other women because they love a mommy. Like, why would I do that, my mom? But on some level, they know that

Speaker 2 she did that. She did that.
So, so

Speaker 2 they force women into ever more uncomfortable and ever uglier outfits and throw them down runways on, you know, in 10-inch heels. Or they, um, what?

Speaker 2 So you think the fashion industry is acting this out? Of course it is. I mean, what other explanation could there be for the intolerable ugliness of the catwalk?

Speaker 2 You are blowing my mind on so many levels. I can't even.
I mean, sure, we used to to have when society was working properly you would go have you ever seen Mrs.

Speaker 2 Arris goes to Paris no it's a lovely movie about a char lady a

Speaker 2 housekeeper yes housekeeper yes to American

Speaker 2 see how do you know char woman and you've never seen Mrs. Arris goes to Paris

Speaker 2 who who dreams of one day owning a couture dior dress like the person she works for right and she saves up and she saves up and there's calamities with her money and you know some some boyfriend loses whatever eventually she manages to go to paris and she manages to get the dress right and when society was properly ordered there were these aspirational um beauty standards and these aspirational lifestyle goals included gorgeous tailoring and beautiful um

Speaker 2 uh um

Speaker 2 silhouettes for women that accentuated their uh you know their course characteristics it's not like that now is it

Speaker 2 It's not like that now? No, and it's funny. I don't know much.
I don't know really anything about fashion, but I love female beauty, of course. But you don't don't see any of it on the catwalks now.

Speaker 2 Exactly. In fact, you see the opposite.
You see the opposite. You see, you see manufactured ugliness.
Gay men turning women into the demons they see themselves as.

Speaker 2 You see gay men.

Speaker 2 Look at the most, it was the most celebrated woman on the stage at the moment is the

Speaker 2 Gorgon opposite Ariana Grande, whose name I forget now.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 this Nosferatu, like black Nosferatu,

Speaker 2 who seems to be sucking the life force out of poor Ariana, who's, I think, going to die within the next few weeks.

Speaker 2 If you've seen that singer's physique lately,

Speaker 2 she's sort of,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 this appalling apparition,

Speaker 2 Cynthia or something, I think.

Speaker 2 Of course, she's called Cynthia.

Speaker 2 You know, with these claws.

Speaker 2 you know and you look at the silhouette and you're like that's literally nosferatu it's literally nosferatu and i know a gay man did that And of course, the gay man then put her on stage in Jesus Christ Superstar as our Lord.

Speaker 2 Did you know that? No. Have you seen it? You've seen the person I'm talking about, right? No.
Okay, well, you'll Google it later, but

Speaker 2 it's this spindly, it's just straight up goblin-looking black woman. Like, and I, you know, I'm not trying to have like a

Speaker 2 rose, uh, a Roseanne moment, um, although she was right. Um, you know, whatever, but this woman is like, you know, like, like ugly by any racial state, she's just monstrous-looking, right? Just

Speaker 2 what our mothers might have called deeply unfortunate, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And practically circus level.

Speaker 2 And of course, she's the heroine of the billion-dollar franchise now, Wicked. And

Speaker 2 she's on stage as Jesus.

Speaker 2 Which, which... So it's an act of hostility, is what you're saying.
Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 these gay men who feel the

Speaker 2 will of Gorgoroth inside them,

Speaker 2 do it, do it, you know, and

Speaker 2 turn these women into the demons they see inside themselves, you know, the demons they see acting on. This is a lot deeper than I expected

Speaker 2 when I

Speaker 2 texted you to have this conversation.

Speaker 2 It's more than you would imagine from a guy wearing this t-shirt. No, it's not actually.
And by the way, can I say one thing that's bothered me for years?

Speaker 2 When I was a child, there was a lot of creativity coming from gay men in the United States.

Speaker 2 It's all gone now. I know.
And it's Dave Rubin is responsible. Not him personally, but I mean, like, but do you know what I'm talking about? I mean, of course.
And why?

Speaker 2 Because a lot of free thinking, and I was related to one of them, and I spent a lot of time in my house, lived under my house when I was a kid, and gay, died of AIDS, you know, but, and had a lot of problems.

Speaker 2 But in some, but I will say

Speaker 2 creative, free thinking, like truly free thinking. But this is Gorvid Dahl was like the archetype.
This is Burkean. There are no Gorvid dolls in gay world that I'm aware of.

Speaker 2 They're all like conformists and

Speaker 2 supporting the man. Like what?

Speaker 2 We're the only ones these days, ex-gay.

Speaker 2 But do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, and it's Burkean. It's because creativity arises out of order.
There has to be limits.

Speaker 2 And if homosexuality is not proscribed as wretched and kept at the fringes where it belongs, creativity dies. And what do you get? Because you don't have those people playing with the limits.

Speaker 2 You don't have the taboo breakers. You don't have the artists, the creatives living at the limits of society.
They're brought instead. And I have to say.

Speaker 2 I think the gay gay community, such as this, is one of the least creative, most conformist elements of our society. I never thought I would say that.
Become the enforcers. Just like...

Speaker 2 They're the enforcers. They're the libertarian guard for Apple and Microsoft.
What the hell?

Speaker 2 Just like the white women of folklore who, you know, are responsible for all evils, but they become like turbocharged Karens, you know?

Speaker 2 And it's the white women who welcome in the white single moms typically,

Speaker 2 but single moms generally, I think,

Speaker 2 bring in um uh a drag queen story hour because there's no gay people like banging down the door. No, that's right.

Speaker 2 There's no gay people like, excuse me, can I come read your kids? To your mind, can I come read stories to your kids?

Speaker 2 Like, no, they're not, uh, uh, they're not, uh, but there are demons out there who will come do it if you invite them. Because what do you have to do with demons?

Speaker 2 Open a portal, uh, open a doorway, you know. So, yes, these do these women open the doorway, and in comes,

Speaker 2 you know, um, uh, three little pigs. Uh, it's

Speaker 2 But the gays now have taken this role. They've taken the

Speaker 2 mantle over from, you know, what we used to, I mean, we used to say it, didn't we?

Speaker 2 We used to say white single moms are the root of all evil, like as, you know, kind of half joking because of all the crazy stuff they support. But now it's homosexuals.

Speaker 2 I have to be honest with you. I bear some responsibility for this because

Speaker 2 it was me

Speaker 2 10 years ago mainstreaming homosexuality into the Republican Party is the great regret of my life more so than anything i've done to my own soul which is a lot um it's the great regret of my life um because it has given rise to horrors i never imagined let me say lennon said that you know all revolutionaries come to hate their children you know while the gay horrors that i've given birth to lady marga nick fuentes i mean they keep me up at night they keep me up at night um

Speaker 2 I mean, why did you mention Dave Rubin? What's his role? Well, because he is at the vanguard, along with a number of other gays in public life, of

Speaker 2 introducing children into the equation. Because it's when you, when you, when you do what I did, which is like gays, just like everyone else, you'd be a normal gay.

Speaker 2 I remember, and this is the thing I regret more than anything else in the world, there's a video of Ross Matthews in 2017 on Twitter saying, so I came home and landscapers have been in.

Speaker 2 We're getting more citrus. You can never have too much citrus.
And people were asking me, Ross, what do you think about this Milo guy? And I'm like, Milo, Milo, how low can you go?

Speaker 2 I don't know who this person is, better read it. And he says, I'm getting letters, this Milo guy, he's resigning from Breitbart or something.
And he says, I'm getting letters from people who say,

Speaker 2 you make it okay that I have a gay son because if he grows up, he doesn't have to be like Ross Matthews. And I was like, no, they should be like Ross Matthews.
They should be like Ross Matthews.

Speaker 2 They shouldn't be like Dave Rubin, like you might not even know unless you watched him for a little bit, because this domesticity of homosexuals has killed all the things that were good about gays that made them like tolerable.

Speaker 2 And instead has given them this grotesque parody, this simulacrum of domesticity,

Speaker 2 which has, of course, in their never-ending hunger, expanded to include babies.

Speaker 2 And now we have the Butigic couple buying black children. I thought you weren't allowed to buy people.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, you can if you're homosexual.

Speaker 2 But I thought that was. It was called adoption or surrogacy or whatever, but you can buy them.
I thought it was called slavery. In fact, you have to buy them because it's, and it's quite expensive.

Speaker 2 Some online slave market or doesn't cover it. No, no, no, it's, it's the government.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 as you know,

Speaker 2 but Dave Rubin has

Speaker 2 like Frankenstein babies. Like he

Speaker 2 mixed his effluvia. with that of his husband.
I mean, this is real. This is physical.

Speaker 2 Gave it a stir and hoped for the best. And that's just whichever one we get, we get, implanted it in some highly paid woman we'll never know the name of, the real mother of those children.

Speaker 2 And, you know, he and his, he and his, his, his

Speaker 2 catamite are on, on, on the internet, you know, with these signs like, it's coming with these two dates. And I'm like, yeah, your damn nation.
That's the date you're counting down to.

Speaker 2 The date you're.

Speaker 2 How is that conservative?

Speaker 2 Oh, because it's family you see because it's uh it's what the the the the the sleight of hand like that's going on is you're like well gays are just like everybody else so we should behave like everybody else which means we should have kids and if we don't physically have kids because our sex is this like demonic sterile horror show then we'll buy them and then we'll look like we've got it

Speaker 2 i mean that's that's how bad it is that's how bad it is and so you have the

Speaker 2 I love,

Speaker 2 I don't know if it says anything about Republicans versus Democrats, but you have like Dave Rubin, who, for whom buying a child is not good enough, it must be his own, you know, like like the the the the conceit of that.

Speaker 2 So on the right, you've got this

Speaker 2 sort of

Speaker 2 techno-conceit Franken baby.

Speaker 2 And on the left, they adopt blacks.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, you've got these two

Speaker 2 wispy, wiry faggots who adopted two black babies.

Speaker 2 I mean, isn't Buddha just the most interesting character of our age? Like, I mean, it doesn't look like it looks like an intensely boring homosexual, like everything gay people shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 But it's so interesting the fact that, I mean, clearly he wasn't gay, like at the beginning. Well, he had girlfriends.
Right. So he wasn't gay, but he made himself gay.

Speaker 2 I made that point because actually I had gay men who worked for me who were more in tune with this than me. I'm not in tune at all.
I just didn't, I thought Peter Buddha's judge was a joke, but

Speaker 2 they said, well, he's not really gay. And I was like, no.

Speaker 2 So, but what does that mean?

Speaker 2 Well, his sexuality, like all, like all homosexuality, is a function, a product, a symptom. What is his homosexuality a symptom of? It's of his vaulting ambition.

Speaker 2 Butagigic timed it perfectly so that post-Obama,

Speaker 2 the gay guy with the black kids, perfect presidential candidate.

Speaker 2 So to the, I think to the heterosexual brain, it's like, are you really saying a guy would switch his quote sexuality in order to get a better job?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Women do it all the time.

Speaker 2 Lesbianism has got nothing to do with male homosexuality. Just look, everybody knows they got a college girlfriend who was a, they got a girlfriend who was a lesbian in college.
Yeah. Everybody.
Like

Speaker 2 you can barely find a woman who hasn't played around with a woman.

Speaker 2 Queen Victoria didn't believe that this was sex or that two women would do that with one another.

Speaker 2 And she refused to accept that women even did that very wisely, realizing that lesbianism wasn't real and uh so lesbian lesbianism wasn't illegal in britain for a long time when male homosexuality was but um female sexuality is known in the studies to be far more malleable women go backwards and forwards to internet with men all the time and and and and you know lesbianism is like a is is is a is a um social and political decision it's a series of social and political decisions i mean women want uh companionship they want stability they want safety uh they can find that in a woman you know like you can find that in a in a butch dyke just as easily as you can find it in american man these days um

Speaker 2 i'm sorry uh you know at least at least she can cash in her harley davidson what have you got um you know

Speaker 2 but um

Speaker 2 sorry uh you know uh that leather jacket's gotta go for something uh you know uh

Speaker 2 that warehouse full of eyeliner you've got um no i i um

Speaker 2 I joke, but only slightly. We've seen women do it.
Seen women do it. They do it all the time.
They choose to be lessons all the time.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 you don't find the. I realize it sounds extreme and implausible.
Well,

Speaker 2 to me, anyway, it's like, really? So we're dealing with a sociopath here. We're dealing with somebody who's entirely divorced from his own emotional, from his own feelings, right?

Speaker 2 We're dealing from somebody, we're dealing with somebody who will do anything, go anywhere, be anything.

Speaker 2 I mean, are you telling me, like, is it, is it so crazy that he would get a, that he to have a boyfriend and adopt these kids?

Speaker 2 Is that so much more insane than a gay man living in the closet and having a wife and having sex with her and producing children with her? Is that so nuts?

Speaker 2 Like, okay, so there'd probably be more sex involved. Fair, fair.

Speaker 2 Isn't it just like that on steroids? Like, is it so bonkers? And that's where gay people should be, by the way, in the closet praying to get better.

Speaker 2 But is it so wild? It's not wild. No, you're right.

Speaker 2 I just hadn't thought of that.

Speaker 2 And gay men have been doing that for centuries. Well, I know a bunch of them.

Speaker 2 Of course, we well, you work in, and I used to work in conservative media. And

Speaker 2 it's all of them. It's everybody.
It's everybody. They're all faggots.

Speaker 2 They're all gay. All of them are gay.
All of them are gay. Like everyone is gay.

Speaker 2 I haven't said anything about it for like 30 years because of my just general Anglo commitment to not get involved in other people's business. But it's so noticeable.

Speaker 2 I just don't know what I clearly there's something going on here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it's the exercise of power over others, as we talked about.

Speaker 2 Really smart. But in this case, the Butjijiju, I find him fascinating because

Speaker 2 he's

Speaker 2 misjudged, but only slightly,

Speaker 2 what would be required to be the perfect presidential candidate, like in 2028, 2024, right? And he starts off and he's got girlfriends, he's in the military.

Speaker 2 He's

Speaker 2 living a normal, like, American life.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 Chasin.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, if you want to, they say that ex-gays often go for like Near Eastern women because they're not sexually demanding and they look like boys from behind, you know, like some Malaysian girls, you know, when they come to have wives.

Speaker 2 But isn't Chasin kind of like the closest thing you can get to a girl?

Speaker 2 Closest, you know, sort of, if you need a simulacrum of a woman, you're like, flip him over, it could be a girl, you know?

Speaker 2 I don't think I know what Chasin looks like. His, well, you're, you're blessed.
Um, his husband is, is

Speaker 2 if you don't know that, then you won't know the expression aged-out twink. Or, uh, uh, but, but, um,

Speaker 2 he's about as the most, the most effeminate man that you could, you could, oh, is that true? Yeah, um, not in the kind of like, so, so, this, whereas Pete has that kind of fake radio voice, like, oh,

Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so you know.
Um,

Speaker 2 and it is a fake voice because you can get you can find recordings of him earlier, and he's got more into it the more gay his life has become. Really? Yeah, like the

Speaker 2 bass, the diaphragms. Yeah, like it's like, talk from your stomach, Pete.
Talk from your stomach. You can imagine chasing before he goes on stage.
Remember, babes, from your stomach, he's like,

Speaker 2 From down here.

Speaker 2 You just imagine, I know. Remember what Lindsay said? You know, the speech coach who taught him how to sound heterosexual.
You know, like, whatever.

Speaker 2 But no, no, the the the it's it's going down it's like sinking it's like there's something in there

Speaker 2 it's like working its way through this like uh achingly slow form of peristalsis you know just

Speaker 2 gradually finding its way down eventually he's gonna sound like gorgoroth um uh you know he's sort of sort of already realizes his full potential um no he he he um

Speaker 2 he's fake he's not gay He's not gay. He's not gay.
There's a doubt in my mind.

Speaker 2 He's not gay, but he's performing homosexuality because, and including having the sex, you know, but probably not a lot of it. I mean, you don't imagine them, you know.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't want you to imagine anything because I don't wish to leave an unpleasant taste in your mouth like that. But

Speaker 2 I'll suggest to your viewers that it's not a particularly sexually active couple,

Speaker 2 which might also explain

Speaker 2 how it's possible for somebody to do that, right? In the same way that

Speaker 2 a DL gay guy wouldn't be a particularly sexual husband, right? Are gay marriages monogamous?

Speaker 2 That's funny.

Speaker 2 Oh, you mean it?

Speaker 2 Well, I sense that they're not having known some.

Speaker 2 But are any, I guess is what I would ask. I mean, I think you get that sort of elderly antiques dealer in Kentucky kind of.

Speaker 2 You know, you get the, you get... That's so good.
You know, yes.

Speaker 2 We have a senator like that

Speaker 2 who, you know, I think if

Speaker 2 he if he found a husband who was prepared to put up with,

Speaker 2 I really shouldn't, I really shouldn't, but look up the ladybugs.

Speaker 2 Look up his ladybugs.

Speaker 2 It's on the internet. We have so many senators like that.
That's crazy. Well, I think people know the one I mean.
Oh, the actual one from Kentucky. No, no, no.

Speaker 2 A little bit over. You know, you know, you can imagine he sort of invites his friend Jasper in for a mint julep, you know, and it's like, do you want to just sit there while I get myself

Speaker 2 dusted up? You know, like, like,

Speaker 2 yes, of course, there are loads, but I'm thinking of the one in particular that everybody kind of

Speaker 2 said you don't out people, so I feel like no, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm not

Speaker 2 McConnell's name. Um, but it was Lindsey Graham.

Speaker 2 But, but, uh, um, uh, no, I don't,

Speaker 2 uh, it's a shame, isn't it? This, the, the falling over, the, the, the, like, how long are you going to stagger on? They're determined to turn themselves into the goblins that

Speaker 2 dictate their behavior. Well, that's the thing about, and I'm not, yeah, it's that there's, there's a bloodthirstiness that's just really distressing and offensive to me.

Speaker 2 But actually, but think about it like this:

Speaker 2 the sassy, vindictive, catty cruelty of the homosexual.

Speaker 2 Imagine what he'd be like if you gave him a nuclear button, right?

Speaker 2 Sounds stupid, but it's, it's a continuum. It's a spectrum, right? And so those gays that have the will to power, they go get some.
And they use it to bomb people or to

Speaker 2 bully or to, I mean,

Speaker 2 how much must they all get off on the fact that they are all having sex and nobody would dare touch it, nobody outs theme nobody says a thing and they're all living lies to their consideration.

Speaker 2 This is, I mean, we were joking earlier about

Speaker 2 outing people, but like, that's why I have a thirst for it because it's hypocrisy. It's public hypocrisy.
I'm not interested in outing like, you know,

Speaker 2 Joe Simpson, who has a corner store.

Speaker 2 I'm interested in outing people who are misrepresenting themselves to the public. And I'll, you know, somebody just got married with wedding pictures and with engagement pictures that are so absurd.

Speaker 2 I know. I figured him out, by the way.
I figured him out. I could never work out this guy.
I was like, what is it that's off with you?

Speaker 2 And I realized he always wants a bigger laugh than the joke he tells commands. And it's because he's actually obese, but in the body of a merely fat person.

Speaker 2 Like if you think of him as like, 400 pounds, he suddenly makes sense because he's always doing this, oh,

Speaker 2 you know? And you're like, oh, you're a fat person you're a giant fat person so he's like a really fat gay in the body of like a

Speaker 2 a merely slightly overweight gay um

Speaker 2 and and and suddenly his personality begins to make sense he does all these like fat you know he's got these like fat ticks that fat people do to like get a bigger laugh than than than their wit would normally allow for you know

Speaker 2 you know what i mean like and everybody and everybody laughs long anyway because they're fat uh you know the fat people are just funny because they're fat uh you know and he's like he's he's like, he acts like he's funny because he's fat, but he's not fat.

Speaker 2 You're talking about Corey Booker. Yeah.
Yeah. So just back to the question, though, is, so, is monogamy an expectation in a gay marriage? No, no, I think, well, I think it's an aspiration.

Speaker 2 I think it's a stated ambition.

Speaker 2 But, you know, like all ambitions, you know,

Speaker 2 we state something we know we can never reach because in grasping for it, we, we, we, you know, we achieve greatness. And so, so maybe they only have sex with 20 people a year instead of 200.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that would be gay fidelity. That would be gay.
Really? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm not even going to say, I mean, maybe I'll tell you, but like... Because there's no woman there to enforce it.
So I've always... Exactly.
And normally no kids to the blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 How could you lose your children?

Speaker 2 This is why living.

Speaker 2 This is why living on the DL

Speaker 2 in marriage with a woman is the optimum environment for a homosexual because all of the social cues are pushing them to do the what they know that they should be doing anyway which is working on eradicating these disordered urges as the religious uh uh

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 religious uh ex-gays would put it or or or um uh unwanted same-sex attraction as the reparative therapists would have it

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 whatever it is all of the the the cues and the pressure is moving them in the right way.

Speaker 2 And so, no, I mean, that's that's it's it's good.

Speaker 2 Alan Turing, for God's sake, you know, is living like that.

Speaker 2 Who was Alan Turing? You know, the Alan Turing. He was living like that.
And they castrated him anyway, which seems a bit mean to me after the war, after he'd won the war for them.

Speaker 2 It's like, okay, that's all brilliant, but we're going to chemically castrate, you know. Seemed a bit gratuitous to me.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, God, I was like, oh, God, can I let him crack one out after he won the bloody war for you?

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. All right, all right.
So, Britain can Brits can be savage like that.

Speaker 2 So do you know

Speaker 2 the happiness level of people who are involved in

Speaker 2 promiscuous gay sex? Like what's it?

Speaker 2 When you

Speaker 2 live that kind of life,

Speaker 2 you're living deep in profound denial. And it comes from.

Speaker 2 I read something in

Speaker 2 maybe it's the Atlantic or Mother Jones,

Speaker 2 of all places, you know, some left-wing gay guy who just wrote about this really beautifully. I'll try to find it in Twitter after this, but

Speaker 2 he said,

Speaker 2 when homosexuals are young, they realize they have to put on different faces for different people. I guess their racial equivalent would be code switching, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And the effect of this on a person who has disordered urges, unlike someone who just happens to be black, is that it begins to like create cracks.

Speaker 2 and ultimately that turn into like shards in the personality, like bits of the personality like burst ping off like a chandelier that fell to the floor.

Speaker 3 And it's so sad.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And it produces the space for profound denial of the type that most homosexual men find themselves in, where that flooding of addictive urge is mistaken for healthy and normal sexual

Speaker 2 attraction.

Speaker 2 And so.

Speaker 2 I kind of stumbled when I, when I looked into, I just woke up one day and I was like, and I was married to a dude

Speaker 2 to my shame. And I,

Speaker 2 who's now like the ex-wife from hell, my God.

Speaker 2 Look, if there's no other reason to like not be gay, just imagine like how bad a black homosexual ex-wife is.

Speaker 2 I'm not even going to go there.

Speaker 2 You don't even want to know. It's like, oh, sorry, it was two sports cars a year wasn't enough.
Okay. All right.
Okay. All right.

Speaker 2 Don't even.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 when I woke up one day and I

Speaker 2 woke up one day and I looked over and I was like, oh no, I don't want to do this anymore. Like hell is real.
I don't want to go there. And it just hit me like after, it was growing.

Speaker 2 You know, while I was just like, no, no, I really don't want to go there. And I, no.

Speaker 2 What am I doing? And the way that I started to address this.

Speaker 2 I kind of stumbled upon a crude version of what the enlightened, like, they they don't call it conversion therapy anymore, they call it reintegrative therapy, because it's reintegrating those shards and those and those broken and those broken bits of like memory that lead to the wrong output.

Speaker 2 We can talk about it in detail if you want to, but

Speaker 2 I stumbled upon kind of like a crude version of that. So when I was trying to stop myself from doing this stuff, I was using like hot oil on my thighs.
I was like doing things, you know, like

Speaker 2 like that hurt.

Speaker 2 And I was trying to rewire my brain.

Speaker 2 because I read a lot of you know psychology anthropology books and stuff like that so I thought I thought I know

Speaker 2 sex urge is such a basic and powerful urge it's got to be just hard thought I knew what I was doing so I was like every time I get aroused I'm gonna go and do something that hurts you know and so I took the

Speaker 2 I took the

Speaker 2 you know like paying my taxes no uh you know I

Speaker 2 um you know like having sex with black people uh no no no um uh I I

Speaker 2 did something immediately to try to to to redo that and this there's a there's a much better way to do it, which I can talk to you about. But

Speaker 2 I think I was recognizing in that

Speaker 2 that I had this,

Speaker 2 that something had jumped the tracks in my brain, right? And I was having

Speaker 2 an incorrect response to a particular stimulus as a result of damage, trauma, whatever. And that

Speaker 2 and that it's a little bit like being a PTSD victim or some other kinds of sexual deviance, right?

Speaker 2 And that

Speaker 2 I knew that I could train my way out of it because at the same time, I had been returning to the Catholic faith of my childhood. And I had been speaking to a dear friend.

Speaker 2 She's a very brilliant professor in Chicago. She's a

Speaker 2 world's leading expert on Marion devotion in the Middle Ages. And she's, you know, she was, she was kind of like feeding me this rich material about, you know, training the soul in virtue.
And

Speaker 2 I was like, okay, well, if I can do it about that, because I'm getting pretty good at that, like, what about this? And so I did this stuff. And

Speaker 2 I got myself as far as celibacy, which is where I am coming. In January, it'll be five years.

Speaker 2 Oh, celibacy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And the good thing about the male libido is the less you have, the less you want. which married men can tell you, you know, is this the only reason they're still married?

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 it's like sugar, though. The more you eat, the more you want.
It It is exactly like that. Why? Because it's an appetite, not a sexual orientation.
It's an appetite, it's an addiction.

Speaker 2 And the more that you have cocaine or Adderall, the more that you are likely on a given Tuesday afternoon to be like, ooh, lime would be nice. Or, ooh, why don't I have a little

Speaker 2 instant release, 30 milligrams? That'll get me through the day, you know?

Speaker 2 It works the same. It functions the same.
It is the same. I remember reading during the AIDS

Speaker 2 period about the number of sexual partners a year, which is like crazy high. I think it's all banned.
They don't allow to talk about it anymore.

Speaker 2 And thinking, you know, if those were all like hot girls, would I want to sleep with 75?

Speaker 2 You wouldn't be able to get through it. Honestly, I don't think most trade men would.
It'd be like, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, men are obviously pigs and they're like variety and all of that.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm trying to be as honest as I can. I'm sure I'll be mocked for this, but I did wonder like if it's

Speaker 2 there's something wrong with the act itself if you're doing it with that many people, right? Yes. Now there's a component of it where it's like the women are setting up the friction there.

Speaker 2 They're the ones with the precious jewel that want that, you know, that they're setting up barriers to, right? Men are put out.

Speaker 2 Like if a man wants to have sex, like they're normally the person asking for the sex, right? They're normally the ones who are seeking the sex.

Speaker 2 Women, normally the ones who are,

Speaker 2 I won't say withholding it, but regulating the access to it, let's say, as the enforcers. For sure.

Speaker 2 Take that away, and of course, and put two men on there. And you're like, well, if they both want it, they're both going to do it all the time.
Of course. But that doesn't really explain

Speaker 2 exactly. It doesn't explain.
That was my thought. It's like, if there was no limit.

Speaker 2 If good-looking women wanted to, this is my younger self thinking this.

Speaker 2 If they wanted to sleep with me as much as I want to sleep with them, I still don't think I'd sleep with 75 of them in a year because that sounds kind of gross.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, by gay standards, that's

Speaker 2 practically celibate.

Speaker 2 I mean, maybe not these days with the boring gays that adopt the children who don't have sex with each other and just molest the kids, but

Speaker 2 by

Speaker 2 the old-fashioned gay standards of the taboo-breaking, promiscuous drug. I mean, look, I grew up in London taking a lot of fucking drugs, going to a lot of clubs, going to a B-the.

Speaker 2 And then, of course, you know, like in London, you had a circuit of clubs, like Trade and Beyond and

Speaker 2 DTPM, whatever. There was like a circuit every weekend.
It was four continuous days, right? Which you could only really do with drugs. And during that time, stop soft for sex.

Speaker 2 I mean, 75 is like, takes you up to February. Actually?

Speaker 2 I mean, I probably was a lot worse than usual. And I grouped scenarios and whatever, but yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 it doesn't fully explain the grotesque extent.

Speaker 2 And by the way, it's always the gay couples that are basically lesbians that live sterile, like they live these like sexless lives who are incensed when you dare to talk about gay promiscuity.

Speaker 2 It's not because gay promiscuity doesn't exist, it's because they don't have access to it.

Speaker 2 But most gays do. And

Speaker 2 what we are thinking about in our hypothetical example of

Speaker 2 two men doesn't explain the full grotesque extent of it. And it's because there is something unsatisfying about gay sex.

Speaker 2 Well, that was my assumption. And you're correct.
And it's, it's, it's

Speaker 2 So Catholic natural law

Speaker 2 and the way that low therapies work, they start with this presumption that things are working properly when they are performing the function for which they were designed. Yes.
Right.

Speaker 2 Clearly, an erect member going into the wrong orifice is not doing...

Speaker 2 is not performing the function for which it was designed. Right.

Speaker 2 So sex that ends that way too cannot possibly be satisfying. It's not permissible spiritually.
It's not satisfying physically.

Speaker 2 So if you take Catholic Church teaching, for instance, just- No, I think that's real. And that's true for eating and it's true for beauty.
And it's true.

Speaker 2 The sex is sterile. No, but every pleasure that's like a righteous pleasure satisfies you.
Yeah, let only 15 of them, right? But like justice feels good.

Speaker 2 You know, when you see somebody wicked, get their comeuppance and you're like, yeah. And that feels like a lot of, that feels, it feels a little like,

Speaker 2 as you say, righteous pleasures, um,

Speaker 2 all of which tend toward the kind of satisfaction that you, uh, that a lot of people describe getting

Speaker 2 in Holy Communion, communion, it's filling, right? It is filling, it is filling. That little wafer is very filling, right?

Speaker 2 Um, the further you get away from that, the less satisfying things are by volume, if you like.

Speaker 2 That tiny little wafer, which is complete, that you feel like you don't need to

Speaker 2 feel,

Speaker 2 eat, drink, think, pray, anything else the rest of your whole life, you just feel like perfect in that moment, like like you have, because you are just in that brief moment in dialogue with our Lord in some fashion.

Speaker 2 And you're like,

Speaker 2 that's my Sunday vibes, you know, like whatever it is. And it's not until Monday morning that life kind of comes back at you.

Speaker 2 The further you get away from that, the more stuff you need to approach the same level of satisfaction. Think about like

Speaker 2 the fake sugar you have, right?

Speaker 2 Over here,

Speaker 2 the cornstarch, whatever it's called. How much Hershey's chocolate you have to eat to feel the same as two squares of Capri's?

Speaker 2 Right. Or how many Reese's peanut butter cups equals a steak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I really noticed that.
I mean, by the way,

Speaker 2 you know, Halloween candy, you can, I don't know, I don't know much about calories, but you could eat like millions of calories, but you can't eat. six pounds of steak.
It's just not possible.

Speaker 2 But the point is that not the sugar is bad necessarily, but that

Speaker 2 this fake sugar that has that waxy taste that's not really right, you need so much more of it to feel satisfied, to get your sugar here. That is totally right.

Speaker 2 And in so doing, you have so many more calories, right? And you start to get fat. And

Speaker 2 then

Speaker 2 you need not just six cokes, but eight cokes a day instead of

Speaker 2 one.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 homosexual sex is sterile. It's not capable of leading to production, excuse me, of procreation, right?

Speaker 2 You cannot make a baby with gay sex. It is spiritually unsatisfying in addition to being, and of course these two things are connected, physically unsatisfying too.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 when you start to think about like

Speaker 2 everything working, performing the function for which it was designed, like doing that for which it was intended, you start to realize why gay sex is like, is

Speaker 2 not hitting, you know? And this is the basis. This is the start.
This is where the therapy begins. It begins.

Speaker 2 But But can I just ask you one last question before you describe how your life has changed?

Speaker 2 I don't mean to rush onto that. No, no, no.
No, I'm fascinated by it. But I just find it so interesting.
So you spent like an hour and 20 minutes describing the hell that you lived.

Speaker 2 You thought it was hellish.

Speaker 2 You left.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it sounds like you feel better and certainly resolved.

Speaker 2 But you're not encouraged to feel that way. Like there's something about the life that you live that's treated like a gang initiation or something.

Speaker 2 Like you can check in, but you can never leave like you're not welcome to leave well just look at the comments you get like um forgive the language but um under every post that i will make online or every every you know on the rare occasion i i might say something about this in an interview one phrase keeps popping up over and over again in the comments you can't unsuck a dick

Speaker 2 meaning there's no salvation for you once you're gay or gay you're gay you're homosexual but that's it who's pushing that the stain that that leaves, right? Which is profoundly unchristian.

Speaker 2 I mean, we think about Isaiah, right? You know, your sins may be scarlet, but they'll be washed white as snow.

Speaker 2 That Saul became Paul. Right.
It doesn't exist for these people. And it's often leftists, but not always,

Speaker 2 insisting on this permanent, the permanence of this stain. And there's more to it than merely just.

Speaker 2 I hate you and I want you to hurt, or you're doing something stupid or whatever.

Speaker 2 There's something more on. And it's,

Speaker 2 people are terrified by the idea that

Speaker 2 this might not be an intrinsic

Speaker 2 part of a person's personality or nature.

Speaker 2 Why? Why are they afraid of that? I thought we were for personal choice. Well, we're all a bit afraid of that, aren't we? Because we're all kind of like, you know, we see other people who are

Speaker 2 doing well in life or who have got themselves out of a sticky situation or, you know,

Speaker 2 left their phone on the table when they went for the bathroom in the break, or whatever.

Speaker 2 And who

Speaker 2 and who

Speaker 2 lash out against others who do seem to be achieving something redemptive. And isn't it true that one of those characterizations of the demons is that they're,

Speaker 2 you know, in the presence of the light, in the presence of good, of the word of God, they hiss and spit, right?

Speaker 2 And it's not necessarily these people who are gay themselves, but they, they,

Speaker 2 to, to confront the horror that a gay person might be able to ungay means that whatever, whatever you've got going in your life, you could fix easy, you know, like, but you don't want to, do you?

Speaker 2 You don't want to get better. You don't want to stop.
Because if he can stop having sex with men,

Speaker 2 knowing what a powerful compulsion urge that is for most men, you know,

Speaker 2 that might mean I have to stop drinking. That might mean I have to stop taking drugs.
That might mean I have to stop being a fat ass.

Speaker 2 That might mean I have to stop being cruel, being vindictive, abusive, malicious.

Speaker 2 And I think that part of it is certainly

Speaker 2 that we have become a society that encourages vice over virtue, that aggressively pushes sin. Yes.
Why? Because

Speaker 2 dumb, dependent people are easier to control, because dumb, dependent people living paycheck to paycheck, enslaved not only to,

Speaker 2 and we, and we live in a particularly evil

Speaker 2 environment now where we're not just enslaved to things, we're enslaved to the mechanisms by which we get them, compound interest, you know, you know,

Speaker 2 our car payments, all this kind of stuff, like 50-year mortgages. Yeah, thanks, Trump.
How many years of that are we just paying down the interest before we own a brick in the house? You know,

Speaker 2 we're now enslaved to these like meta meta addictions or these additional layers of problem, which mean that we can't even do anything about our lives because one missed paycheck and we're,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 we can't do anything about it.

Speaker 2 We can't do anything about it because we're locked in from every single angle into our addictions, into our compulsions, into the bad food that we eat at the supermarket because it's cheap and

Speaker 2 the TV we watch, we know we shouldn't, and the video games that are fine by themselves, but which, you know,

Speaker 2 20 hours over the weekend, like that's a lot, bro. You know, just all this stuff.
And it's packaged and it's pushed and it's encouraged. And just look at the sponsors.
I looked at the sponsors of

Speaker 2 Jimmy Kimmel's show when he was taken off the air. And it's donuts and banks.

Speaker 2 Look at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel's show and you're like, oh my God, like these are evil, wretched, terrible people who just want you fat, stupid, and quiet.

Speaker 2 There's no question in my mind you're telling the truth. It's too obvious.
You want

Speaker 2 And do you think the relentless promotion of homosexuality is part of that? Because it is relentlessly, tirelessly promoted, period. Anyone says it's not

Speaker 2 more incapacitating.

Speaker 2 What is more incapacitating, having no control over your own sexual desires? And just look at how comfy capitalism has made itself with homosexuals. Like, oh, you've got no kids.

Speaker 2 Well, perhaps you'd like these designer clothes. You know, oh, you don't have any dependents.
Well, maybe you'd like to spend way more than you should on this cruise, you know, or whatever, whatever.

Speaker 2 I mean, a boat cruise. You know, oh, you, you, you, you, um, all your disposable income is yours to spend.
Well, um, perhaps you'd like to try. We do have a special this evening, sir.

Speaker 2 You know, you know, like our pan-roasted blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, you know, the, the, the, the, they used to call it the pink pound in England.
This

Speaker 2 disproportionate ability of gays to spend, which has a reinforcing effect. It's like a, like a, like a, um, uh, I don't know the economic term, but you probably do.

Speaker 2 Um, it has like a magnifying or or or a

Speaker 2 fortifying effect because, of course, gays spend more, so you market more to gays, so you get more, you know, so you get more of them.

Speaker 2 Um, you know, and then other people begin to acquire gay taste, which has happened to women and is now happening to men because it's seen as a prestige or a luxury or a or a desirable kind of lifestyle.

Speaker 2 So you see men, as the

Speaker 2 charming ladies of YouTube would tell us, Thagataz,

Speaker 2 who are are acquiring gay habits and get like, I mean, like soul cycle for it. I mean, please,

Speaker 2 like, what are these people doing? It's like, you're in Lycra and you want me to see your ass. Got it.
Cause this is doing nothing.

Speaker 2 What are their gay habits for men acquiring?

Speaker 2 Definitely

Speaker 2 food, which, I mean, like,

Speaker 2 if you're.

Speaker 2 If you're a chap.

Speaker 2 So I was in the hotel last night

Speaker 2 as I was thinking about this show and I looked at the menu and I was like, there's nothing on here for men.

Speaker 2 It was all these like seafood,

Speaker 2 but hand whatever. And the guy that was serving me had a huge ginger beard.

Speaker 2 God bless him.

Speaker 2 And I said, you don't eat here. And he said, well, and I said, you don't eat here.
Where do you eat? And he said, I said, okay, fine.

Speaker 2 And I said, is there anything on here that you would eat aside from this? And it didn't say how big the filet was, but I was like, what is it? Six ounces? We need four of those. And he was like, yeah.

Speaker 2 You wouldn't need anything because there's nothing for men on the menu. Because it's all this, like, airy, fairy, unsatisfying, calorie-rich, full of like, you know, flavor, but no protein.

Speaker 2 Food for girls.

Speaker 2 All food for girls. Look at the menu in your favorite restaurant.
Look at the menu in every restaurant. There's no food for men on it.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, where, where is it?

Speaker 2 Even, even like a heroic meat like lamb.

Speaker 2 It's like $78 to this little, this little, like,

Speaker 2 thanks. Thanks so much.

Speaker 2 What is that? That's not man food. So food, for sure.
I mean, clothing, let's not even.

Speaker 2 Sexual habits. Women have become faggotized by the promiscuity culture that their gay best friends

Speaker 2 like to... to sort of have a nudge and a wink kind of relationship with like oh i don't do it but who's this oh just jamal uh

Speaker 2 you know um uh

Speaker 2 who's this that's not the guy that you were with like three days ago quiet girl um sorry about her you know like just all that kind of stuff um and and and men too you know just the the way in which

Speaker 3 the self-destructive

Speaker 2 um sacrifice uh uh self-sacrifice the the the relinquishment of of of the will to the most addictive version of everything is very gay very gay The most addictive version of everything.

Speaker 2 So, like, if gay sex is like addiction where it just floods your mind with like the chemicals where you can't get it out of your head, like we were talking about right at the beginning. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, the food has become like that and the clothes have become like that. And, and the, you know, like

Speaker 2 men buying designer clothes has always been a bit sus to me. Oh, I totally agree.
Like, I'm, I mean, I do it because I'm like, I've got about another three years where I can still get away with this.

Speaker 2 And then I'm going to have to just be straight.

Speaker 2 Well, I can still do do it. You know, and then I'm gonna have to find like some, some like,

Speaker 2 I'm gonna have to find my own nudge and a wink thing like, oh, no, they're not Doctor Nibana, they're Arelano. Oh, that's the, it's the, um, it's the late Pope Benedict XVI's favorite shoemaker for

Speaker 2 you tasked. You know,

Speaker 2 stop it. Uh, you know, I'm gonna have to give all this up.
But, um,

Speaker 2 but somebody's been heterosexual all their life. Like, what are you doing in Dior?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, they only make shoes, I think. No, no, no, there's male Dior now.
What are you doing? It's Chanel that doesn't do men's clothes. What are you doing in Dochinobana?

Speaker 3 What are you doing in Versace?

Speaker 2 Why are you spending $1,000 on a pair of shoes that is not like a

Speaker 2 tactical or a and even that stuff? Oh my God. Like the faggotization of

Speaker 2 the, you know, you can go now you can go to Cryptech and you can get the Versace of Camo.

Speaker 2 It's like, which, which, their salespeople will even call it that, not on the website, because men don't like that. But

Speaker 2 there's now like designer camo

Speaker 2 where it's like, I mean, I know I have it, but uh,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 you know, uh,

Speaker 2 faggotize, faggotize. Everything is look at the consumer toys.
Who's making these decisions? Women.

Speaker 2 And we, and we have this is women, women in the marketing departments, women in the advertising, women on social media, everything is going gay, and, and, and, and, and it's, it's justified.

Speaker 2 And just the same way the pink pound is self-reinforcing. This thing, we always say, oh, women make most of the purchasing decisions in most houses.
Shut up.

Speaker 2 Like, it doesn't mean every man has to go out looking like he wants to drop on his knees knees in a in a in a um in a in a public park or in a toilet just because just because his wife chooses what washing powder they use like stop it

Speaker 2 everything has gone gay everything's gone i mean it just just just every bit of life i mean music um i mean now we now we force heterosexuals to listen to little nas x um you know and and and and this sort of uh um you know endless turnover of of um of of preening homosexual crooners um that we call pop stars.

Speaker 2 There aren't any anymore because

Speaker 2 pop stars require a kind of like heroic manly virtue, I think, that is just gone now. It's just not there anymore.
So, if you wanted to weaken a society to the point of collapse, faggotize it.

Speaker 2 It's not feminization.

Speaker 2 That's a mistake to believe that. It's not, society is not becoming feminized.
It's becoming faggotized.

Speaker 2 It's become, it's, it's, it has been gayed.

Speaker 2 You know, and it's, um,

Speaker 2 and it's, it's like the difference between effeminacy and femininity, right?

Speaker 2 You look carefully at the behaviors, it's like it might have started off feminized, like you said, oh, the HR departments have kind of like feminized language in the corporate sphere and blah, blah, blah, might have started that way, but the gays took over very soon afterwards.

Speaker 2 And so now we don't have a feminized public square, we have a faggotized public square.

Speaker 2 And it's hardly surprising given that everybody in Congress and everybody in the Senate and everybody in the party and everybody on TV and everybody else that you've ever heard of on television and everybody on all the TV shows are gay.

Speaker 2 Like, it's not a shocker.

Speaker 2 This would be the result. Because even if they might be living

Speaker 2 DL lives, they still like what they like. And they're still going to do it.
And it's like, oh, yes, that's good. Cause it's got that little cocktail.
You know, like they still do it.

Speaker 2 You see at DC, like, these big, like, these, these, these men in DC like drinking their little champagne and things.

Speaker 2 So when you are, I mean, a lot of this, it's like walking into a room full of women and there's all this stuff going on, but you have no idea what it is.

Speaker 2 A daily occurrence for me. But you know, something's going on, but

Speaker 2 you don't quite get the right

Speaker 2 on the wrong frequency. You're not recognizing it because it's not feminine because you'd recognize it if it was feminine.
You'd know what you were looking at.

Speaker 2 But when you go to Washington, when you were flitting around Washington,

Speaker 2 what was your dangerous faggot tour? Is that what it was called? Yes. I think the verb would be flit.

Speaker 2 Or perhaps flounce.

Speaker 2 There was some flouncing. I saw it.

Speaker 2 There was a bit of flouncing. Do you know the funny story?

Speaker 2 Perfect. Sorry to cut you off.
No, no. Again, I've been doing it the whole day, but

Speaker 2 a perfect illustration of the facetization of society.

Speaker 2 My bus, my giant dangerous faggot bus is in a parking lot just outside Washington, D.C.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Mike Pence's advance team are planning to put him in the same hotel. And they have to change hotels.
Yeah, no, stop. But they have to change.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's like spiritually gay for sure, but he has to change hotels and divert his. I mean, this is the, you know, this is the incoming vice president of the United States, right?

Speaker 2 To make way for the faggot.

Speaker 2 Just saying. It wasn't like

Speaker 2 the first time.

Speaker 2 They could have come to me and said, would you mind? Because we have like the

Speaker 2 vice president-elect, like whatever, or coming in. I mean, this is 2017, so he is the vice president by then.

Speaker 2 You know, we have the vice president, you know, coming through.

Speaker 2 And we would have said, yeah, sure, we'll, we'll, we'll, you know, we'll go to the, we'll go to the residence in.

Speaker 2 but no, they just, they just changed all of his plans, not mine, to make way to make space for the faggot.

Speaker 2 Perfect analogy, isn't it? Perfect. But you picked up that vibe a lot when you were in Washington.
Oh, my God. The number of people who, sorry,

Speaker 2 you told me you don't know how people.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, I think allegations have been roundly disproven, haven't they? No, but, you know, but the number of people who were just, I mean, they didn't quite say hop on my lap, but

Speaker 2 so you, I mean, because you're on that wavelength. Well, 10 years ago, I was very beautiful.
And

Speaker 2 I didn't notice. No, of course you didn't notice.

Speaker 2 I've been upset about you. I've had it ever since.

Speaker 2 Tucker never said I was.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 no, I was very good looking. You know, I was in shape and all the rest of it.
And

Speaker 2 now, I mean, it was, it was, it was like a daily avalanche.

Speaker 2 Really? Never needed to visit Niagara Falls. I just, you know, just like, it was like, I've got a, I've got a, I've got, I've got a giant torrent coming up.

Speaker 2 Let me, let me, I won't finish that metaphor, but no, it's just, just, just, no, it's a torrent.

Speaker 2 So how has your life changed day to day now that you're celibate and getting away from

Speaker 2 trying to overcome your gay sexual impulses? I don't really have them anymore. Not, not, not often.
Um,

Speaker 2 my life is so, so I've learned.

Speaker 2 well the first thing to say is that dogs have stopped barking at me. What?

Speaker 2 I mean, I used to set dogs off, like really set dogs off.

Speaker 2 Like they would go crazy around me. And when I said

Speaker 2 with hostility or affection? I mean, they can sense evil, you know.

Speaker 2 My spiritual director,

Speaker 2 I can only tell this joke because it's my spiritual director that said it.

Speaker 2 I said, do you think it's because they can sense evil? He said, no, it's because you don't smell like blacks anymore.

Speaker 2 look the priest said it um

Speaker 2 let the record reflect i'm not laughing

Speaker 2 uh you know dogs have dog dogs have a famous uh no i know why complex relationship with with with certain people um

Speaker 2 uh i'm sure that's not what it was but but um maybe no but but um

Speaker 2 you know the biggest thing that happened to me

Speaker 2 wait can i stop did dogs literally it's are you being serious about dogs 100 serious i mean there's like there's a two photos of me like snuggling with puppies like okay you got me.

Speaker 2 But other than that, almost every other dog, like, would just go nuts anywhere around me.

Speaker 2 Uh, my, my, I, I, I set up a loving firm last year with a friend, and, and, um, and her dogs just went ape anytime I was even in the vicinity until I started making these changes.

Speaker 2 And then it was like,

Speaker 2 and now they're like,

Speaker 2 it's, it's, it's bizarre. I mean, I'm a cat person now because I kind of have to be, but, but, um, but I'm a great lover of dogs.
Like I think you are too. Yes.
A great lover of dogs. And

Speaker 2 what they lack in intellectual sophistication versus their feline compatriots, they make up for in like intuition, you know? Yes, they do.

Speaker 2 They're like babies. They've got a little holy spirit in them or something.
They're just like, they know good guys from bad guys. Dogs just couldn't be around me.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm sure not all gay people have that thing, but it's just

Speaker 2 a sign of something that changed.

Speaker 2 The biggest thing that changed for me, though, which is not like a big, the biggest thing to me, because i live quite an internal life you know like most of my most of my life is up here right um

Speaker 2 the biggest thing that happened to me is i started caring what happened in stories like spoilers started to bother me and i couldn't figure out what that was about um

Speaker 2 Like 10 years ago, when the Star Wars movie came out, just before Christmas, when no one had had the chance to see it, I tweeted, Han Solo dies.

Speaker 2 You know, like a thousand people unfollowed me. How could you? Ah, you know, you're the worst person.
It's like, what are you talking about? It's like a stupid stupid space movie. Like, get a grip.

Speaker 2 But I started to care. Maybe because I started to care what happens to me.

Speaker 2 I've started to care what happens in stories. Like, the plot matters.
I'm no longer just looking at the surface, at the

Speaker 2 well, at the surfaces in it. I'm not looking at the dresses on the women or the

Speaker 2 accents, or at least not just looking at those things anymore. Like, I want to know that the story has a happy ending.

Speaker 2 Because I think, you know, cleaving to my faith more closely I've become more aware that the universe has a happy ending and I want a happy ending

Speaker 2 and that's the biggest thing that's happened to me like in my in my head in my soul you know did you not care about yourself as much no of course not of course not but I've gone from

Speaker 2 I went from somebody who liked Oscar Wilde because I liked the witty lines and the sparkling surface of it to somebody who appreciates

Speaker 2 instead now

Speaker 2 or at least reads it differently now for this for the subversion for the the little eddies in language he uses which are meant to to to show you know that this this kind of like disintegrating way of life and now and i read it historically now a history like i never read history books because nothing mattered before or after it's just like today because i'm in a grip of an addiction but now i read biographies i never did that before um well because a narcissist doesn't care about other people's lives Right, but I knew stuff, but I didn't like, I didn't want to know details.

Speaker 2 And now I feel,

Speaker 2 I mean, Myers-Briggs is a lot of old shit, but

Speaker 2 my personality type, such as it is, is completely changed. And I don't know exactly.
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know I look and sound like pretty similar, but the way that I...

Speaker 2 Because I have the same sense of humor, like I have some bits of personality that I have, but the way that I acquire information has changed. Like I, like,

Speaker 2 I forget the distinctions because it is a load of shit, but, but, you know, like the intuitive to the sensory or whatever. It feels, it feels now like I can,

Speaker 2 I feel more in tune now. Like before, there was kind of like a sheet of glass, like some critical ironic distance between me and the world where I didn't

Speaker 2 really want to engage with it, you know.

Speaker 2 And now I'm like, I want to grab the wood. Sorry, I'll rephrase that.
I want, you know, I want to like, now I want to grab a different kind of wood.

Speaker 2 No, I want to, I want to like know what it's made of and where it's from and and and look at it and think about it and and like so this is how you ended up huh uh you know you know like like that that didn't used to occur to me at all i'd just be like yeah it's cool i love the aesthetic it's really nice i love what you're going on what is this shabby chic you know like and i just wouldn't know um and now i'm just like this is alive this is like it like i now i get I didn't get when you first started.

Speaker 2 I was like, like this about the set. And now I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 So you were a prisoner of ironic detachment yeah yeah like this this kind of like everything's got to be meta everything's got to be whatever because i was afraid of engaging with the material critically yes and authentically you know um i was afraid of engaging with the material and and and now i'm can i just say can i just brag indirectly

Speaker 2 even when you were i first met you in the green room at some fox show years ago many years ago

Speaker 2 And you were in full full fag. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, ridiculous.
It was a lot. It was a lot.
Parody of

Speaker 2 parody parody of a gay man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I thought you were deep anyway. I could see that in you.
Sorry. Not bragging.
I always thought that. I mean, it was a compliment to both of us.

Speaker 2 No, but I

Speaker 8 see now it's that.

Speaker 2 Now when I do gay things, I do it in like a Margaret Thatcher accent because now it's not really me anymore.

Speaker 2 It was a compliment to both of us. No, I saw that, though.
I saw that instantly. Like first day.
I remember we were. Yeah.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 But when you see somebody that way, I mean, there are gay people who are not deep, you know,

Speaker 2 Dave Rubin, you know, people who just no one shall there's no they're there there's nobody behind there's nobody behind there it's just that and you read his book you know you read his book and it's like

Speaker 2 candace made me read his book really she made me he did the i mean his book like don't burn this book i'm like i'd have to buy it first i'd have to know

Speaker 2 have to have heard of it like i'd have to acknowledge it really is a book well you know but please the spacing like they sort of like the margins and the oh my god if you i mean you know uh uh from from having so many successful books like that all all the publishing tricks, like, you know, if you, if

Speaker 2 your manuscript comes in short, you're like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, we probably both had that happen to us from time to time.

Speaker 2 There was this rumor that I,

Speaker 2 there was this rumor that I didn't write my books. It was this team, a fleet of assistants.
And so the first interview I gave about my book about The Last Pope,

Speaker 2 the book had been out two months, and I said, sounds brilliant. I can't wait to read it.

Speaker 2 But you know, I was like, well, you know, when you actually have stuff going on, you're too too busy to write it. And then you write other people's books in the fellow periods.
Anyway,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 3 you know what it is.

Speaker 2 Actually, I have a famous friend who never read any of his books. No, of course.
And he had a million of them. Come on.

Speaker 2 Bill O'Reilly, probably. That's very much a TV thing.
Yeah, it is. It is.
It is. And I was on tour and stuff.
So, but I did actually write mine, as it happens. I had a research assistant.

Speaker 2 Actually, a very great guy, Alan Buccari, who's now writing a book about Gamergate, the great

Speaker 2 untold story about how Trump happened, which is completely topic for another day. But

Speaker 2 what was the question?

Speaker 2 Well, the question was

Speaker 2 how you've changed as a person.

Speaker 2 I still go off on tangents. Yes.
But you were saying that you have an appreciation for the future and for things beyond yourself, whereas you didn't before. I'm back in the room.

Speaker 2 Now I will.

Speaker 2 I care what happens at the end of stories.

Speaker 2 Like I used to read it for the wit and try to remember the sparkling dialogue

Speaker 2 to semi-plagiarize it in conversation or whatever, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I see a little of this change in another friend of mine in George Santos.

Speaker 2 What a good guy he is.

Speaker 2 I can't help but like him. I always liked him.
You can't help but

Speaker 2 totally. I always liked him.
I was just like, oh, he's so likable.

Speaker 2 And he's likable.

Speaker 2 He would be likable if he was thin, which is how likable he is.

Speaker 2 I never thought of that. He'd be likable even if he was skinny.
That's how likable he is.

Speaker 2 He's especially lovely at being jolly. But

Speaker 2 I've noticed in him some little changes, some adjustments along these lines since he's had his reckoning and his, you know, I mean, he had to confront something.

Speaker 2 I make a prediction.

Speaker 2 Guarantee you the guy doesn't die gay.

Speaker 2 Guarantee you, George doesn't die gay because he's going to see his behavior, the Walter Mitte stuff, as being in dialogue with, dependent on, congruent with the other damage.

Speaker 2 Guarantee it.

Speaker 2 Guarantee it.

Speaker 2 I'm still so uncomfortable with this topic that I'm not going to broach that with him, but I think you're qualified to do that. Well, I'm on Timpaul with him soon, so maybe I will.

Speaker 2 So how do you change? Like, what's the process? This thing that we're not allowed to talk about, which is, and I can't, gay conversion therapy. We don't call it conversion therapy anymore.

Speaker 2 But that's what it was called, right? They were trying to ban it. So like,

Speaker 2 you were required to be gay. I remember thinking like, and by the way, I've never been anti- What are you converting from and to? No, but also the idea that you're not allowed to change.
Like what?

Speaker 2 That's when I realized.

Speaker 2 Why are you keeping people gay against their will? You're keeping people gay.

Speaker 2 Well, that's when my mind, as someone who's always been, I guess, pro-gay or whatever, I'd never really been that involved in it. That's one of the least attractive things about you.
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 I agree. But I started, my brain started to change a little bit when they were like, we're going to ban gay conversion therapy.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I thought the whole point was you can be whatever you want to be, which I was kind of for. But now you're gay.
You must stay that way.

Speaker 2 It's respectable for you to be pro-gay if the basis of

Speaker 2 your pro-gayness is that they're trying to force people to stay gay. Well, that, no, no, that's when I started to change.
I was like, what are we talking about here? You're not allowed.

Speaker 2 So you're going the wrong way. Yeah.
No, you're just, you're just off on this.

Speaker 2 That just blew my mind when they tried to ban that.

Speaker 2 they're trying to this is not what they told me it was they're trying to force people to stay gay against their will yes i mean it's bizarre there's a supreme court case right now

Speaker 2 the the um ruling will come next year about whether or not bans on gay conversion therapy are constitutional whether it's legal to do it so we'll find out craziest thing i've ever heard

Speaker 2 um well

Speaker 2 Supreme Court's kind of like, it always struck me, at least until recently, I guess, with the injection of the DEI like lunatic.

Speaker 2 Isn't that the greatest chart you've ever seen? The greatest graph of my life. How much Katanji Brown Jackson talks.

Speaker 2 It's the greatest. It's the greatest chart I've ever seen.
Self-esteem is inverse proportion to ability.

Speaker 9 Yeah, we're aware of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's the greatest chart I've ever seen. And then you got old Clarence in your life.
Right. Yeah, one word.
It is the greatest chart.

Speaker 2 I just saw it and my reaction was that tracks. And we had in the Supreme Court and probably maybe maybe so.
I mean, it's sort of down the line, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Democratic up until recently, it was, you know, so it was really just like Catholics be Jews on the Supreme Court. Um, it'll be-I don't think there are any Protestants on the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 Um, I don't think there are now, and I don't think there is one. Neil Gorsuch is an Episcopalian.
Yeah, but you're, you're, you're, you're over, you're just over the fence, you know.

Speaker 2 No, but I mean, there was a while where

Speaker 2 you've got a little toe in the tiber. You don't, you got a little toe in the tiber.
This country was founded and created by Protestant men, and there's not a single one in the Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 There was a fifth of them are Catholic. Um, uh, the small ones.

Speaker 2 Only in Rhode Island, but whatever. Another day.

Speaker 2 When you see that kind of civilizational clash, as it seems to me that it is one,

Speaker 2 I can't help but hope

Speaker 2 if they're not going to do Obergafell,

Speaker 2 that they at least let people get away from being gay.

Speaker 2 Like at least let people leave.

Speaker 2 At least let people leave.

Speaker 2 Because I had to fumble my way

Speaker 2 with hot oil on a stove and like hurting myself to eventually get to a point where

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 was not seeing a particular stimulus and ultimatically having a particular arousal response. Is that what you want?

Speaker 2 Is that what they want? Is that what they want everybody to have to do? To sit at home and abuse themselves?

Speaker 2 To sit at home and like hurt themselves, to get rid of these unwanted, disordered urges that are making them miserable, that are hurting other people, that are hurting them, that are the product of trauma, that are a trauma response.

Speaker 2 Is that what you want? You want people to sit at home and do it to themselves? I don't think so. I think it's what they want.
I think destroying maybe is what they want.

Speaker 2 But I don't think it's what we want. I agree.
So how do people change and what is the process?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 the father of this stuff the most i mean there are some quacks oh i bet we're not gonna lie about it but the father of the stuff the most respectable stuff with the highest success rate um uh the guy's name was uh joseph nickelosi

Speaker 2 and uh you can't find most of his books on amazon obvious um but actually yeah why well because they're suppressed

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 so that just tells you that right there if they're banning books okay yeah okay well

Speaker 2 I'm not such an anti-book ban guy. You're a bit more of a free speech fun.

Speaker 2 What were the Nazis burning? What were they burning? Ask them.

Speaker 2 I know, I'm very aware of that.

Speaker 2 I guess what I'm just saying. I'm more of a free speech funnel.
I am. I am a free speech.
I have evolved into more of an authoritarian over the last 10 years.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm not even having that debate. I'm just saying.
that you know what's important to people. You know what they're lying about by what they try and hide.
Sure. We can agree that's right.

Speaker 2 And we can also agree that

Speaker 2 all of the Jewish trans doctors need to have their books burned. But

Speaker 2 when

Speaker 2 he wrote about this stuff over decades, he had a very

Speaker 2 tempestuous relationship with the bodies in psychology and all the rest of it and psychiatry.

Speaker 2 But, you know,

Speaker 2 he's the person to read if you want to understand how people become gay and how many of them have got out of it. So

Speaker 2 for me, the most important book is Shame and Attachment Loss. It's kind of got a yellowy green cover.

Speaker 2 And the good news is that although

Speaker 2 Dr. Niccolosi has left us, his son, Joe Jr.,

Speaker 2 is still in the practice and is still training therapists today. He's based in California,

Speaker 2 obviously.

Speaker 2 And so he's still working today. And today, the way that the therapy

Speaker 2 that Joe Jr. does

Speaker 2 presents itself is,

Speaker 2 okay, it looks weird. It looks really weird.
It's peculiar looking.

Speaker 2 It's almost funny looking when you see, you know, because sometimes they'll film a session as a demonstration, you know.

Speaker 2 But it

Speaker 2 almost looks sort of like it.

Speaker 2 like something you might see from Ali McBeal, like smile therapy or something, right?

Speaker 2 But for a lot of patients, it's showing enormous progress and progress we measure as

Speaker 2 the amount of arousal,

Speaker 2 unwanted same-sex feelings, like are just like, I didn't, wait a minute, did I?

Speaker 2 I don't think I like got the hots for anyone this week. You know, you know, yeah.
So

Speaker 2 people become, people have gay sex

Speaker 2 urges for a variety of reasons, you know, so that the, the, without getting too specific, you know, the passive partner in a gay um encounter is um looking to take on some of the masculinity he feels he lacks and that's in a literal physical way uh and in an emotional way too right

Speaker 2 um he's seeking to to to um absorb in some fashion the manliness he feels he's he doesn't have um really yes

Speaker 2 And it makes sense, don't it? Like when you think about it. I've always wondered what that was, but yeah.

Speaker 2 If you're, if you're, if you, and it's a way of, of interacting with the kind of men you've never been able to interact with or who've never like taken you seriously or that you've always kind of like admired from afar or whatever, because you have had this like jump tracks thing in your brain from neglect or abuse or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And so you seek, you want to be, you want to, you feel like it's like getting charged up. And this is where the magic comes in again.

Speaker 2 This is how magic works, you know, like magic artifacts got like charged up with evil power. Like that's what, you know, grace doesn't work like that.
You know, God doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 Uh, the infinite, limitless generosity, and charity and grace of God doesn't work like that. You don't have to like recharge your reserves.

Speaker 2 Another reason gay sex is unfulfilling because it's refilling a battery that's always depleting. It's like a slow puncture, you know,

Speaker 2 and you just top it up. You can never fill it up, you can top it up for a moment with an encounter like this.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 those urges in the first place come from

Speaker 2 a memory memory or a thought or something that's leading to

Speaker 2 this arousal,

Speaker 2 this disordered urge. And the way to get rid of it

Speaker 2 feels a little like some people will have heard of maybe CBT, although it's different in some important ways.

Speaker 2 The therapy is three-step.

Speaker 2 The first thing that you do is you produce that state. So you think about or you look at something that will take you to the place that would have produced arousal previously.

Speaker 2 And then you introduce something unexpected into the brain.

Speaker 2 And the idea is that you rewire the brain in its plastic, in its in its plasticity to expect a different outcome when it has that stimulus in the future. Right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 the way I did it was to hurt myself. So if I saw a basketball player, I'm not basketball because we're all gay nerds, like I said, but a football player, like I said,

Speaker 2 sitting down next to me on a flight or something,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't get aroused, like the blood wouldn't stop flowing. I would get like, you know, like that,

Speaker 2 or something, right?

Speaker 2 Vaguely.

Speaker 2 Or at least wouldn't get that

Speaker 2 arousal response. The way that the therapists do it, which is better,

Speaker 2 is a

Speaker 2 a sort of like just a completely unrelated feelings neutral kind of a thing, right? And the way it looks, it's just remarkable.

Speaker 2 And the third step is just repeat it because there's only two ways you can persuade the brain of things, which is emotional connection and repetition. Nothing else works.

Speaker 2 Those are the only two means of persuasion that work. Emotional connection or repetition.
So this is why

Speaker 2 all the late-night comedians who aren't funny anymore, their job is not to be funny.

Speaker 2 Their job is to associate certain things with certain emotional reactions and then to do that every night of the week forever. So Trump, ew.

Speaker 2 And then the next night, Trump, ew. And this eventually persuades people that Trump bad, right? Because they're associating an emotional

Speaker 2 reaction

Speaker 2 to a certain thing. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
It's just programming. It's programming.
It's programming. They don't have to be funny.
That's not their job.

Speaker 2 It is not Jimmy Kimmel's job to be funny. It's Jimmy Kimmel's job to repeat and repeat.
It's why it's so boring and repetitive, right? Yeah. Repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat.

Speaker 2 Positive, happy, like Camela so brave.

Speaker 3 Trump's hideous.

Speaker 2 Oh, disgusting. Isn't he gross? Isn't he, oh, that fat ginger

Speaker 2 orange retard, whatever, you know? They, they, they, they're not talking about him in terms of policy, they're talking about in terms of disgust, yeah, because that's an emotional thing.

Speaker 2 And then again, again, again, again, eventually people are like, Trump, ew, you know, of course, that's happening. It's just programming.
It's why the comedians aren't funny. You're welcome.

Speaker 2 This is that for virtuous ends because it's what works in the brain.

Speaker 2 And it very often uses.

Speaker 2 So, so

Speaker 2 this is people find this strange, but so Aquinas talks about how grace builds on nature, right? Thomas Aquinas.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so there are ways in which our bodies

Speaker 2 are machines.

Speaker 2 They function according to mechanisms and respond to stimulus. And although there's a spiritual dimension to all of this,

Speaker 3 The way our brains work, it's trainable.

Speaker 2 It's trainable like a dog is trainable. It's trainable like anything is trainable.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 2 the way this therapy looks, and I provided you with a couple of little examples in video

Speaker 2 so that you can see it yourself afterwards. The way this therapy looks

Speaker 2 is,

Speaker 2 first of all, the original stimulus will be produced. And then there may be a pattern of like following a pen around or a particular kind of tapping on the knee or something.

Speaker 2 It's just intended to be like a neutral, different outcome from that initial response.

Speaker 2 So that no longer does the brain go to arousal but it goes to something else and that the the the it's very common if you see in ptsd survivors if you've ever been um to the va you'll see a lot of like this going on in like the treatment rooms and you're like what the hell is that all yeah um uh that's that's what it is they're they're they're produced they ask them to remember something traumatic from their service and then something

Speaker 2 it's just kind of a little thing and what's going on is

Speaker 2 The best way I can kind of describe it is

Speaker 2 it's like when you press control alt delete and then a couple of other things and the computer reboots without the virus now. Yes.

Speaker 2 You know, like that's not quite how computers work, but, you know, it reboots and you're no longer in that situation again.

Speaker 2 You can do that with the brain, but it takes not just one reboot, but it takes repeated

Speaker 2 raising, if they call it the schema or the target, the thing that produced that unwanted response. And then immediately the introduction of an unexpected outcome.

Speaker 2 So your brain's like, hang on a second.

Speaker 2 This happened. So, I was expecting that, but then this happened.
And then, over time, your brain learns to just do that instead.

Speaker 2 And that instead could just be like something, you know, completely anodyne, or it could be like I did, which is, you know, a kind of clunking amateur version of it, which was, you know, something, something painful or unpleasant.

Speaker 2 And the third step, just do it over and over again. And eventually, you see

Speaker 2 people

Speaker 2 just have less of those desires. It's

Speaker 2 the most peculiar thing, but it is being borne out in the studies. And so, Joe Jr., I brought this with me.
I'll leave it with you if you're interested. But

Speaker 2 144 people

Speaker 2 in a randomized placebo blind trial, it works.

Speaker 2 It works. And it works because

Speaker 2 these homosexual urges are not so totally unlike other forms of trauma, other forms of damage, other forms of

Speaker 2 deviance.

Speaker 2 This same thing, it works on people who are obsessed with rape. Like a guy who can't get off unless he's thinking about raping a girl.

Speaker 2 Now, rape is something that women love to fantasize about, but perhaps don't necessarily enjoy the reality of, even the reality of play of it, right? It's something women love to think about, but

Speaker 2 you act that one out without warning, you're sleeping on the couch for a minimum.

Speaker 2 It can help men to enjoy sex lives that don't involve coercion, you know, because they have that sort of thing. And the same, much of the same

Speaker 2 technique is used with people who have other kinds of trauma, who have other kinds of trauma responses as a product of bad things that happen to them or as a product of just something going a bit wrong where that track is jumped, you know?

Speaker 2 And so, this,

Speaker 2 though it looks very odd, is based on decades of

Speaker 2 research and builds on other therapies for other kinds of trauma. And it looks like it's working.
Now, I didn't have this kind of therapy. I will say that.

Speaker 2 Like I said, I kind of bumbled through on my own because I'm stubborn

Speaker 2 and a loner. But this has started to work for people.

Speaker 2 When you look back on the life that you led 10 years ago, how do you feel?

Speaker 2 I feel ashamed.

Speaker 2 I feel embarrassed and disgusted by the things I did, but I feel ashamed,

Speaker 2 particularly about 10 years ago, about how many people,

Speaker 2 I thought I was like laying it on thick with this sort of like Dame Edna Everage kind of, you know, a hyacinth bouquet performance on stage. And I realized people weren't picking up the layers maybe.

Speaker 2 And every talk I ever gave in the Q ⁇ A, I said, if I, if I could not be gay, I would push that button, you know? And nobody ever like. That never registered with people.
All that they, why?

Speaker 2 I don't know. All they got was being gay is okay now and being right wing, being gay and right wing is okay.

Speaker 2 And I know that I pushed that button with the left to annoy them and because it was absurd at that time, but people never got the message when I said, if I could possibly,

Speaker 2 I never gave a speech in my life where I told people, go be gay. I said,

Speaker 2 my first ever appearance on television was with boy George, like 20 years ago. And I said, I feel that something is wrong inside me.

Speaker 2 And I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate this.

Speaker 2 And he's like, no, honey you're perfect just the way you are i can't do well josh but um you know i was like no no i feel that i feel that something is wrong in there and and everybody around the table just left you know like thinking like

Speaker 2 oh there's a self-hating homosexual well

Speaker 2 i'm not hate i wasn't hating myself i was hating the things that i was doing because i knew they were hurting me and i knew even then i never gave a speech in my whole life where i say go be have you ever talk to other gay men who have the same feeling yeah Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think because, I mean, not many of them will articulate it like I do because I am a little bit cuckoo and I don't mind kind of living in public and talking about my feelings.

Speaker 2 Like my Twitter is just like this,

Speaker 2 well, aside from the eight years missing, it's just this like insane stream of consciousness where I'll just say the most like ridiculous, absurd, outrageous things, but it's because people are getting it like a

Speaker 2 tap straight in, you know? It's just what's going on in there today.

Speaker 2 So I'm comfortable living that way and I'm comfortable expressing myself and talking about myself. And I think now I have a duty.

Speaker 2 Now I have a responsibility to others because of because the message didn't land.

Speaker 2 Like I was, I was, I was not intending to give birth to this huge generation of gay Republicans who now just, I think it's openly, like openly fine to to traffic in babies and to be a gay Republican.

Speaker 2 And I feel a great deal of responsibility for that. I hate myself for that a little bit.

Speaker 2 My Lilynopoulos, thank you for everything you said for your honesty. I appreciate it.
Thanks. And your insight, which is amazing.

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