159. Dr. Will Cole: Autoimmune Crisis? Uncover Mold and Toxins Harming You

Speaker 1 There's so many health issues that are going on beyond the surface that conventional medicine has not caught up with.

Speaker 2 And I think the absence of disease is not the presence of good health.

Speaker 1 We have upwards of 93% of the United States metabolically unhealthy in some way. They're not checking all the boxes of saying, I'm in great metabolic health.

Speaker 2 We hear about metabolic health, metabolic flexibility, metabolic syndrome, but I don't think most people understand what that really means.

Speaker 1 People that have sexual abuse growing up and physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, we have to look at these emotional toxins too.

Speaker 2 The emotion doesn't create aflatoxin, it's the dysregulation of the nervous system because of your emotional state.

Speaker 1 It's a piece of the puzzle. These mental, emotional, spiritual, or the part of gut feelings impacts the physical health so much.

Speaker 2 A lot of choice that I think the average American is forced to make is if they have one of these conditions, how do you best suggest that they go about healing the gut?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so the first part of the question, you said, how do they find out?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist, Gary Brecca.
We go down the road of everything: anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between.

Speaker 2 And my guest today is a guest that my team and I have been watching for a long time.

Speaker 2 You know, I've been deep down the rabbit hole lately of autoimmune conditions, of gut health, of inflammation, of metabolic health. And he is an absolute expert in all four of these categories.

Speaker 2 I can't wait to dive into this

Speaker 2 with Dr. Will Cole today.
Welcome to the podcast, brother.

Speaker 1 Gary freaking Breca. I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 I can't believe this is happening, man. Really?

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know what's so, you know, you know what's so crazy is I have people say that, and I feel the same way.
Like,

Speaker 2 God is so good because

Speaker 2 I feel like once he revealed his purpose to me, the kind of people that have come into my life, people like yourself,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 you know, that, that I hold in such high regard. You know, there's so many mentors of mine, like Dr.

Speaker 2 Mark Hyman and Dave Asprey, and some of these guys have just walked through my door to sit down on this podcast. And they go, man, thank you, Jesus.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's, it's so amazing to sit here with you. And the fact that you feel the same way is very flattering to me.

Speaker 1 This is going to be great.

Speaker 2 Cause, you know, I don't see myself like that yet, but, you know, eventually I will because I look at functional medicine practitioners like you that are making a real change in the world.

Speaker 2 And it's just so inspiring. And I think finally the work that folks like you do is coming out of the shadows.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, and it's getting a deserved seat at the table. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a special time. Yeah.
It's a special time. It's a time as this for sure.

Speaker 2 It's a special time. So, you know, lately, what

Speaker 2 I've been deep down the rabbit hole of

Speaker 2 toxicity because,

Speaker 2 you know in early when we started our our functional medicine clinics um you you have those clients that are just unresponsive that are having um significant symptoms and you don't find it anywhere on the labs right you look at the labs and you're like well you know your your hormones are in a good range got a decent amount of d3 um you know your your triglyceride and cholesterol is not you know off the charts your c-reactive protein is kind of normal and they're like headaches, fatigue, brain fog, mood numbness, all the things that are just robbing them of their daily life.

Speaker 2 And I started then to really look at toxicity,

Speaker 2 mainly mold, mycotoxins, metals,

Speaker 2 parasites, and viruses.

Speaker 2 And in almost every one of those cases,

Speaker 2 we found one of those to be the underlying cause. And I know that you talk a lot about metabolic health, metabolic flexibility.

Speaker 2 I wonder if we just talk about what is metabolic health and metabolic flexibility.

Speaker 2 And then I want to go down the road of, you know, for the folks that are watching, where would I start, you know, testing for some of these things to maybe find out what's at the root of my autoimmune disease?

Speaker 1 Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This phenomenon that you're explaining is something that I see on a daily basis. People that have things like brain fog, fatigue, digestive problems, anxiety, joint pain, food sensitivity.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 1 joint pain. What the world may call mystery illnesses, they're falling through the cracks.

Speaker 1 They'll be told from conventional doctors, well, it looks autoimmune, but they're not like checking all the boxes. Right.
They're somewhere on that autoimmune inflammation spectrum.

Speaker 1 And exactly what you're saying, where it's like, yeah,

Speaker 1 metabolic labs are pretty much okay.

Speaker 1 C-reactive protein,

Speaker 1 high-sensitivity C-reactive protein looks normal.

Speaker 1 Homocysteine sometimes suboptimal and nothing crazy these inflammation markers that's what i mean conventional inflammation but you're right when you look at things like tgf beta one c3a c4a msh these sort of other immunological labs that are conventional labs but aren't typically ran in the conventional setting you will typically find for that subset of people those labs will be off and then when you start looking at biotoxins yes it confirms those conventional labs in my mind yeah it confirms things like mold and bacteria and viruses.

Speaker 1 And almost 100%, I don't know if you found this, but almost 100% of these people that fit the, check all these boxes, what the world would call mystery illnesses, have these HLA gene variants. Yes.

Speaker 1 Like they're all, which for people that don't know, that's human leukocyte antigens. It makes your body.
more sensitive, if you will, to these biotoxins like bacteria, viruses, and mold.

Speaker 1 So whereas, you know, mold is everywhere, right? Bacteria and viruses, humans have been with symbiotically for a long time.

Speaker 1 But these people, their immune system doesn't know how to calm down when they're exposed to these pathogens.

Speaker 1 And then we could talk. I think, in my mind, there's a environmental toxin component to it when you talk about glyphosate or forever chemicals.
I think there's something man-made.

Speaker 1 that is exacerbating these biotoxin sensitivities. Well, there's no question.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you just look at big data, if you just take us, zoom out for a second and you look at parabolic rise in skin cancers, parabolic rise in autoimmune conditions across the board, roughly 80% of which are in women.

Speaker 2 You look at parabolic rises in type 2 diabetes, morbid obesity, multiple chronic disease in a single biome, the earlier,

Speaker 2 the onset of metabolic syndrome getting down into teenage years now, right? Where we just thought. man, I can't be killed by a bullet at 15 or 16 or 18 years old, you know?

Speaker 2 And you have to think that there's an environmental component to that.

Speaker 1 Whereas like, yeah, maybe the mold, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. But then it's like the analogy that I use, like, we all have different bucket sizes, right?

Speaker 1 That's your bioindividuality for how much junk can I handle? Right. And environmental toxins, man-made and biotoxins like bacteria, virus, and mold are going to be contributing factors.

Speaker 1 But then stress, unresolved trauma.

Speaker 1 You know, not sleeping well, foods that don't love you back.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's a confluence of foods that don't love you back.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 1 America loves those. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, we do.

Speaker 1 They love to be in a toxic relationship with things that don't love them back. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we very often, you know, I read

Speaker 2 Dr. Perlmutter's book, Grain-Brain and Gut-Brain Connection.

Speaker 2 It was the first time that the switch flicked for me that, wow, man, our gut bacteria really drive our cravings and not necessarily for the right things, right?

Speaker 2 You know, the more highly processed food we eat, the more highly processed food we crave. The more sugar we eat, the more sugar we crave.
We get dependent on this dopamine cycle.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I, I, you know, early again in my career, when we were doing lots of labs on people, it was, it was really confounding because you think when you talk about I have an autoimmune disease or my immune system is, like you said, you know, lit up,

Speaker 2 you know, in a fight for one of these auto, these environmental toxins.

Speaker 2 Classically, you think, okay, the white blood cell counts through the roof and the, and the CBC, the complete blood count would be lit up like a, you know, like a Christmas tree.

Speaker 2 And that's where I think these evade

Speaker 2 capture, right? Because they're hiding right in plain sight. And I think most primary care physicians are not trained in functional labs.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, these poor people are going back to their primary care doctor over and over again. They're like, you're fine.
I'm not fine. I can't sleep.
I'm depressed. I have no libido.

Speaker 2 I've got, you know, crushed days of crushing fatigue. My joints ache.

Speaker 2 You know, I've got, now I've got PCOS. I've got positional orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.
I've got this POTS. And so it can't be normal.

Speaker 1 No, but you're right. There's so much medical gaslighting going on to these people, unintentionally most of the time, right? Right.
Because they're just, they're a

Speaker 1 square peg in a rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 Like they're just not fitting in the conventional system, which, you know, it is looking at the diabetes, it's looking at the heart disease, looking at, they're being screened for these things.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But this. There's so much things.
There's so many health issues that are going on beyond the surface that conventional medicine has not caught up with.

Speaker 1 They're seeing it on a daily basis, but they don't know how to help these people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I think the absence of disease is not the presence of good health, right? Because you don't have type 2 diabetes or don't have hypothyroid or you're not particularly hypertensive.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean, well, then everything's fine. It just means you don't have those diseases.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I want people to thrive in like ways that they never thought possible. That's what God put us on this earth for.
He merely meant for us to have it all.

Speaker 2 And so I want to start with metabolic syndrome and metabolic health in general yeah um and then i want to work my way into some of the specifics like mold mycotoxin virals pathogens some of these um and i certainly want to get into gut health but um but but for for folks that we we hear about a lot about metabolism metabolic health metabolic flexibility metabolic syndrome um

Speaker 1 but i don't think most people understand what that really means sure so um depending on the study that you cite we have upwards of 93 of the United States is metabolically unhealthy in some way.

Speaker 1 They're not checking all the boxes of saying, I'm in great metabolic health. But you're right, it is kind of

Speaker 1 abstract, nebulous term. People maybe think of, you know, weight gain, which is a part of it.
It's so much more than that, right?

Speaker 1 So yes, it can be weight loss resistance or trouble losing weight, but poor metabolic health can manifest like low sex drive. It could manifest as sleep issues.

Speaker 1 It could manifest as brain fog, fatigue, anxiety, depression. It doubles your rate of that

Speaker 1 when you're insulin resistant. That's really what's going on.
I mean, there's a central seminal event that's happening in most of these people. It is some degree of insulin resistance.

Speaker 1 There's somewhere on that insulin resistant spectrum, which if you're saying, if you're looking at that statistic,

Speaker 1 only 7%.

Speaker 2 of America is medically healthy.

Speaker 1 And I would say that's kind of, they have loose standards.

Speaker 1 Like if you, as you know, like in functional medicine, we're looking at a tighter range of where does vibrant wellness live which is where we get our name in functional medicine where does the body function the best so we want triglycerides even tighter than what they want in the conventional setting and most people a lot of americans have triglycerides above 100 yeah and that is like that proverbial Paul Revere.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Paul Revere. Not the LDL cholesterol.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Glad you said triglycerides. That's right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, triglycerides above 100 is typically an indication that the body's saying, I don't know where to put this blood sugar, so I'm going to store it as circulating fat or triglycerides.

Speaker 1 It's going to store it around the liver and spike those liver enzymes, AST and ALT. It's going to start raising that A1C, that three-month average.

Speaker 1 And there's, I mean, depending on the study that you cite, that's about four to ten years prior to someone having type 2 diabetes. That somewhere,

Speaker 1 these people were on this insulin-resistant spectrum. For most people, it didn't happen overnight.

Speaker 1 And that's high triglycerides and that low HDL, so triglycerides above above 100, HDL below 59, that ratio is a proverbial metabolic Paul Revere.

Speaker 1 And if you're a history nerd like me, Paul Revere didn't actually say in effect, the British are coming. But to use that analogy, it's saying diabetes is coming.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if you don't do something about this, and this, you may feel fine. You may feel like, eh, I'm just getting older.
Maybe I'm just a little tired.

Speaker 1 Those are check engine lights that your body's saying, you know, let's figure out what's going on.

Speaker 1 So metabolic health, and when I say metabolic flexibility, or when we talk about metabolic flexibility, it's the ability to burn both sugar and fat.

Speaker 1 It's the flexibility to be, have energy and have optimal mitochondrial function. Most people are stuck in this sugar burning mode.
They're hangry. which is hungry and angry is evil spawn.

Speaker 1 They're irritable.

Speaker 1 They feel like a shell of themselves.

Speaker 1 And then they gaslight themselves and then they say, I'm just getting older. They get gaslit from doctors because the doctors are just screening for these big pathologies.

Speaker 1 And then they go for years not living their best life

Speaker 1 and they settle for it.

Speaker 1 So that's what we're talking about with metabolic health.

Speaker 2 That's great. And a lot of people's emotion is so tied to food, which is another indication that,

Speaker 2 you know, your mood shouldn't shift before you, after you eat. Not by much anyway.
I mean,

Speaker 2 but when you have these, an emotional roller coaster that follows your hunger patterns and eating patterns, I mean, that's a sign that you are metabolically unhealthy or metabolically intolerant, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, if I, I don't have to eat, I don't have to eat, I don't have to eat, I have to eat right now. And then you're hangry and you eat and then.

Speaker 2 your mood returns to normal and then it tanks again as your blood sugar crashes and you have an afternoon crash i mean so those kinds of cycles are not normal pathic in terms of how our emotion and and eating should be um you know tied tied into each other like many of you, the hardest thing for me is to shut off my mind at night when I want to sleep.

Speaker 2 And it's funny because sometimes I'll wake up tired, already thinking of when I'll get back to bed again.

Speaker 2 But exactly the moment that I lay my head on the pillow, it feels like the machine of crazy what-if thoughts is turned back on. Does this happen to you?

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Speaker 2 So what would be the big markers for people to check? So, check engine light is triglycerides over 100, HDL below 59.

Speaker 2 And, you know,

Speaker 2 what kind of supplementation addresses that? You know, omega-3 fatty acids or what have you. And

Speaker 2 what are some of the other markers that they should be looking at?

Speaker 1 Some other ones that I would recommend. And look, these are conventional apps.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, we can run them in functional medicine and we do for people around the world, but you don't, you can go to your PCP, your GP, your endocrinologist, and ask for these.

Speaker 1 So, um, A1C, that's just three-month average of your blood sugar. We want it at the very least under 5.6.
Yep.

Speaker 1 We want fasting.

Speaker 2 That's the doorstep of prediabetes. I mean, I think.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 So this, it's these exit, these exist on a spectrum. We want fasting glucose to be under 90.

Speaker 1 I want, I mentioned triglycerides, HDL, so triglycerides under 100, 50, HDL above 59.

Speaker 1 I want the, I think these, when you look at metabolic syndrome, these people typically will have high sensitivity C-reactive protein to be off so you'll see HSCRP even if it's not through the roof you'll see it above one which the American Heart Association

Speaker 1 at the CDC want it in the optimal range under one we would want it under one as well in functional medicine homocysteine which I mentioned earlier it's an amino acid supposed to be recycled down into methionine but it acts like a neurotoxin even subclinical like just slightly elevated homocysteine has been linked to increasing blood-brain barrier permeability or what they call leaky brain syndrome, which is, and when I say it, it's kind of like people are like, what?

Speaker 1 My brain is leaky. Yeah.
It's not, right. It's linked to cardiovascular disease too.

Speaker 1 So we want homocysteine to be under seven. We would run what's called a nuclear magnetic resonance or NMR test, which I'm sure you run too.

Speaker 1 It's like we want those small dense LDL particles to be as low as possible.

Speaker 2 Those are the, not the. cholesterol.

Speaker 1 They're the protein carriers of cholesterol. So it's not the cholesterol that's the problem.
It's the inflammation or oxidation of the particles, the protein that carries cholesterol.

Speaker 1 That's the problem.

Speaker 2 I'm so glad that you're saying that. So, because, you know, I liken cholesterol to a fireman, right? I mean, when there's a fire, the fireman shows up to put it out.

Speaker 2 When there's damage to the endothelial wall or

Speaker 2 other cascades going on, you know, cholesterol shows up to sort of plug the hole, if you will, or repair it.

Speaker 2 And then we blame cholesterol because it's at the scene of the crime for pulling the trigger. And we try to shove cholesterol down as low as we possibly can, especially LDL cholesterol.

Speaker 2 I actually did an amazing podcast with Dr. Asim Malhotra.
So

Speaker 2 he's a great, great, great dude. I want his accent.

Speaker 2 I feel like anything you say in a British accent just

Speaker 2 like if you're a dude, it makes you more attractive and more intelligent. And if you're a chick, it makes you much more attractive.
Like, I thought about actually developing one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we just, we just have some more aerodynamic.

Speaker 2 But then I would forget to do it. So

Speaker 1 we may have a reason.

Speaker 2 Like Sean Connery was like the ultimate, you know.

Speaker 1 And then your wife would be like, why are you walking around with a British accent?

Speaker 2 I don't know, babe.

Speaker 1 Just doing it now.

Speaker 2 It sounds bloody well to me.

Speaker 2 But,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 I did a podcast with him. We talked, went deep down the rabbit hole of cholesterol, but then, you know, conventional medicine comes in, shoves cholesterol down as low as they can, 40s, 50s, 60s,

Speaker 2 not addressing the underlying metabolic issue, not addressing the toxic soup that people are bathing their cellular biology in that got them into that place in the first place, just using medication to lower that one marker.

Speaker 2 And what we saw in the big data pools was, you know, then there comes the joint pain and

Speaker 2 the brain fog and the short-term memory loss and

Speaker 2 all the other consequences to cell walls, cell membranes, hormones, you know, that sort of thing. And so

Speaker 2 I love that we're talking about.

Speaker 2 becoming metabolically healthy because I feel like this is the hub of the wheel. And you can affect all the spokes by

Speaker 2 fixing your metabolism. 100%.
Right.

Speaker 2 And that has a lot to do with what you put in, you know, what you're drinking, what you're eating, how you're serving your body, how you're sleeping, how you're exercising.

Speaker 2 It's all of the, I even like the term lifestyle medicine more than functional medicine. Yeah.
It's more descriptive to the average person out there.

Speaker 2 Because it makes people realize that my lifestyle has the greatest impact on my health outcomes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I don't care how good your physician is, if you're not sleeping and you're eating a highly processed diet and you're not moving your body and you've got unresolved trauma and you're not in any kind of circadian cycle at all, there's almost nothing that they can do for you other than manage your symptoms.

Speaker 2 And it's so empowering to know that if I took these lifestyle choices back under my control, I would have these incredible

Speaker 2 health outcomes.

Speaker 1 And so many Americans, they feel disempowered. They think there's something like

Speaker 1 above that them like they can't it's inaccessible right and they see social media as a double-edged sword right we see all everybody's highlight reels and you feel like i could never do that but a lot of the things that we would say are probably some of the biggest needle movers for the average american or person out there western or out there anywhere you live are accessible i mean a lot of my telehealth patients, you know, contrary to what you may hear on social media, are just normal nine to five people.

Speaker 1 Right. Like they're just people that have a why bigger than their excuses.
And they're realizing, I'm going to break generational cycles. I'm going to change the culture of my family.

Speaker 1 You do not have to be a one percenter. And look, I totally agree.

Speaker 2 You don't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right. And that's, we're there for those people too, but I don't want to limit this to just being like this elite thing where it no, I want this.

Speaker 1 I was on a call with some heads of Walmart the other week because they want to know about this whole Maha thing because the Walmart customer is wanting, they're becoming literate when it comes to reading labels.

Speaker 2 I love that.

Speaker 1 So to me, this is about that special time that we're talking about. Yeah, yeah.
That it's like, hopefully there's more aha moments from people that shop at Walmart.

Speaker 1 There's normal nine to five people that are like, you know what? I can't do all the things, but I want to do something for my mouth, which is more than we can say historically.

Speaker 2 The fact that the awareness is making it down to that level, I mean, my excitement about Maha.

Speaker 2 And for the record, I'm not in any kind of official government position or anything

Speaker 2 with Maha

Speaker 2 other than that we support the movement and

Speaker 2 we support Bobby Kennedy and

Speaker 2 go to events, get the word out, that sort of thing and try to have a positive influence on how this gets implemented, at least in the court of public opinion.

Speaker 2 But what's so exciting to me is the opportunity to potentially affect public policy and really go from the top down and had to be

Speaker 2 someone at the top because of the corruption in our nutritional research, because of the corruption in our food supply, because of the unnecessary levels of

Speaker 2 poison in our food supply, because of unnecessary subsidies, in my opinion, for some of the most highly processed foods on the planet.

Speaker 2 And a lot of choice that I think the average American is forced to make is a choice based on price and availability.

Speaker 2 And it's grains, corns, flowers, soy,

Speaker 2 wheat.

Speaker 2 Those are all your most affordable, most widely available, and inexpensive products.

Speaker 2 And so obviously your dollar is going to go a lot further if you're buying these subsidized commodities and foods than if you even tried to go organic.

Speaker 2 You know, I heard Max Luguevere say one time on a podcast. He's like, if your grocery store has a health food section.
What does that say about the rest of the store? What's the rest?

Speaker 2 It's like, it's so true. Why should we have a health food section? Why wouldn't it just all be health food? Yeah.
Why are we there?

Speaker 2 let's take a step further.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, my audience is pretty educated on metabolic health and they're very interested in some of the specifics. Everybody is on this journey

Speaker 2 to be the best version of themselves. I call it the ultimate human version of themselves.
And on this journey,

Speaker 2 the things that we chalk up to a consequence of aging, brain fog, weight gain, water retention, poor sleep, poor focus and concentration, you know, lack of libido.

Speaker 2 And when you bring in the toxic burden on people, I'd like to talk a little bit about how the toxic burden is impacting autoimmune conditions.

Speaker 2 Because the one thing that we absolutely saw in our clinic system, and especially lately, like last five years, is this just parabolic rise. Everybody has Hashimoto's, Crohn's,

Speaker 2 high ANA titers, you know, speckled ANA titers. And then they go to the primary care and they're like, that could be MS.
It could be, it could be lupus.

Speaker 2 And you start dropping words like that on somebody, even though they're not necessarily indicative of those specifically, but they're markers that your immune system is in a fight. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then they don't know where to start. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And most of the time they're told, because I have clients that I'm working with right now, including some very well-known clients that everybody listening to this podcast knows,

Speaker 2 that just recently went to their physician, had these high ANA titers,

Speaker 2 and in a four-month span of time, we're told they have a Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroid, and now we're being told that they've got autoimmune markers for something potentially more sinister, like a lupus

Speaker 2 or a scleroderma or some connective tissue disorders because of these high speckled ANA titers. And it absolutely freaked them out.

Speaker 2 And in my conversation with them and the clinical team, we calmed them way down to say, listen, we're just going to clean up the environmental burden. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then we'll see if this helps address that issue. So let's start with thyroid, like Hashimoto's, because that is a massive one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the most common autoimmune disease, right? And I think historically the first.

Speaker 1 maybe the first autoimmune condition discovered in science, I think it was early 20th century, maybe.

Speaker 1 And I always find it interesting that guys wanted to name an autoimmune condition after themselves, right? Hashimoto's, Addison's.

Speaker 2 Is that what Hashimoto's? I think it was.

Speaker 2 I never really thought about that.

Speaker 1 I don't, maybe if your life's work is that, maybe you would. But to me, it's like, I don't want a disease.
I don't want a will disease.

Speaker 2 Breca's thyroiditis. No.

Speaker 1 I mean, more power to them. I'm sure they were brilliant people.
But, anyways, it's autoimmune thyroiditis. There's over a hundred different autoimmune conditions.
Hashimoto's is the most common one.

Speaker 1 But then there's an additional 50 above that 100 different diseases that have at least an autoimmune component.

Speaker 1 And then every few years, we hear about more and more autoimmune components to this and to that and to this.

Speaker 1 The things that we weren't even classified a decade ago as autoimmune now are finding autoimmune components.

Speaker 1 So if you break that word down, auto, that prefix self immune, it's when the immune system turns against itself at that event, that sort of seminal event within autoimmunity called molecular mimicry, that case of mistaken identity, when the immune system is tagging antibodies, flags for destruction to destroy.

Speaker 1 So against the thyroid, it's against thyroproxidase, the enzyme that makes the thyroid or thyroglobulin, which is the thyroid protein itself.

Speaker 1 But then that you can think about ulcerative colitis, it's in the gut. Crohn's, it's in the gut.
MS, it's in the myelin sheath. Shograns, it's the connective tissue.
Lupus, it's a connective tissue.

Speaker 1 Shoguns, again, pack, you know, the dry eyes and the dry mouth.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 rheumatoid arthritis, the joint. So we can go on and on, but that molecular mimicry is that connective mechanism within all autoimmunity.

Speaker 1 And then you think of how researchers even describe molecular mimicry. It says the immune, they describe it as the immune system

Speaker 1 losing recognition of self, which you think about that on a physiological level that's happening. But then you think on a mental, emotional, spiritual level.

Speaker 1 the immune system that person losing recognition of self and then the research around stress and trauma and when you talk about Hashimoto specifically there's a lot of stress and trauma component where these genetic variants that are associated with autoimmunity, like MTHFR, is highly associated.

Speaker 1 It's not, but genetics, depending on the study that you cite, it's anywhere between 77 to 91%

Speaker 1 of the autoimmune inflammation puzzle is due to epigenetics. It's the lifestyle.
stuff that we're talking about here.

Speaker 2 Totally agree.

Speaker 1 So genetics are part of it, like MTHFR, like HLA, other, like other gene variants that researchers, endocannabinoid system too.

Speaker 1 But the majority of it is environmental so that's why we're seeing this epidemic rise of Hashimoto's disease you're right these levels these TPO TGA thyroid antibodies are high and so many people but how did how did the how does what is it about the toxicity that causes the immune system to then say okay I'm going after the thyroid peroxidase antibodies I'm gonna normally there's different areas, but if you look at the when does a switch get flicked?

Speaker 1 Normally it's leaky gut syndrome. Normally when you look and I would say most of the research research is being done, is there's some sort of breach of the intestinal lining.

Speaker 1 So, undigested food proteins and bacterial endotoxins called lipopolysaccharides, these bacterial toxins in gram-negative bacteria are passing through the gut lining because there's these proteins that govern gut lining permeability called occludin and zonulin.

Speaker 1 Think of the Z enzonulin, this protein that protects the gut lining, the tight junctions of the gut as a zipper.

Speaker 1 So, if there's increased zonulin antibody activity, increased zonulin activity, you're going to have things breach getting from the gut into the bloodstream.

Speaker 1 And that is at least part of it that researchers have looked at for the past 15 or 20 years or so as this event of what's happening as to why this molecular mimicry is happening.

Speaker 1 Because the immune system sees undigested food proteins, sees bacterial toxins and says, what the heck? It's... not actually saying what the heck, but I'm speaking for your immune system right now.

Speaker 1 And it's tagging the undigested food food proteins with that

Speaker 1 flag for destruction, the antibody, and then cross-reacts because it's similar enough in structure. The thyroid is similar enough in structure that it's attacking the thyroid.

Speaker 1 But then it could be the joints, the gut, the brain, anything.

Speaker 1 So we have to look at what's destroying that gut lining. Yeah.
And these environmental toxins like glyphosate. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You talk about herbicides and pesticides, what it's doing to decimate this gut garden.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The gut microbiome.

Speaker 2 Big part.

Speaker 1 Microplastics. When that's what they're finding at 90% of human tissue,

Speaker 1 there's a healthy amount of microplastics in the human body. And we should not be like micro-dosing microplastics, but we are doing more than micro-dosing these.

Speaker 2 plastics. Yeah, I heard on average.

Speaker 2 Was it Dr. Gundry that I saw on a podcast? I heard on average, you know, about a credit card a week.
Yeah. So you just like

Speaker 2 instead of throwing your credit card away, just eat it. And that's too much plastic.
Don't you? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't do that. But we are doing that without even wanting to do that.
That's what I mean.

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Speaker 2 Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast.

Speaker 2 The gut, and I'm going to go into that in a second because,

Speaker 2 you know, I've often described some of these conditions as, you know, when an invader

Speaker 2 hides inside of a tissue or a cell,

Speaker 2 the immune system will go after that.

Speaker 2 You know, it'll like the police chasing somebody inside of a locked home. You know, the offender runs inside, locks the door,

Speaker 2 the police are going to come bust the wall down. The immune system does the same thing.

Speaker 2 You know, when it chases invaders, mold, mycotoxin, metals, viruses, very often these things harbor inside of healthy tissue or inside of, they harbor in the dorsal ganglion, they harbor inside of, you know, inside the cell wall.

Speaker 2 And so, how does the immune system get in there? It cross-reacts with the yeah you know with the with with with the protein in the healthy cell yeah um and so i i

Speaker 2 how does somebody go about if they have one of these conditions um

Speaker 2 first of all how do they go about testing to find out well what is it that i might have um and then how do they how do you best suggest that they go about healing the gut Yeah, so the first part of the question, you said, how do they find out?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 If we're looking, and this is a oversimplified Venn diagram, but when we started the conversation with these people that don't necessarily have high, these conventional inflammation markers like HSCRP, they don't have maybe super high homocysteine.

Speaker 1 Their metabolic labs look pretty normal. There are obviously a lot of people that have, as I mentioned, 93% of the United States don't have great looking labs.

Speaker 1 But then there's this other group of people. that have these normal markers, but these other biotoxin inflammatory immunological type labs.
And then, of course, many people can have both.

Speaker 1 So, and you're right. If someone has a poor metabolic health, it's going to exacerbate all as a gasoline on that inflammatory fire.
Somebody has insulin resistance.

Speaker 1 So, you want to check all these boxes, like look at metabolic health, like we talked about, look at those, those labs that I mentioned, but then look at these other autoimmune type

Speaker 1 labs and things that will perpetuate. these inflammatory flare-ups.
So,

Speaker 1 to understand inflammation, 75% of that's in the gut.

Speaker 1 So if I'm thinking of the average person out there, like, how do I get more bang for my buck on where do I understand the predominance of where my immune system resides? It's going to be in the gut.

Speaker 1 Right. So getting a good microbiome lab is a good place to start.

Speaker 1 To look at this landscape, depending on the study, you know, upwards of 100 trillion bacteria in the gut. We have about 30 trillion human cells.
We're exponentially more bacteria than human. Right.

Speaker 1 There's sort of this. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I think, you know, in the 90s when there was the teenage mutant ninja turtles, remember the villain Krang when the brain was inside of the robot? I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm like, that's how I feel about it. That's true.

Speaker 1 We all have Krangs that are like giving up regulating our mood and our immune system and all of that stuff. Well, that's two-thirds of the immune system.
So to look at

Speaker 1 where inflammation originates, there's a lot of gut-centric drivers of inflammation. So I would look at the gut and then look, look at these environmental toxins.

Speaker 1 Like get a good blood, urine, blood, and urine tests to look at these biotoxins like bacteria, viruses, and mold.

Speaker 1 Look at the environmental toxic load, like these herbicides, pesticides, microplastics, and

Speaker 1 forever chemicals and heavy metals.

Speaker 1 Look, we have to understand the two-thirds of that autoimmune puzzle. We have to look at the epigenetic variables of why people have these issues.

Speaker 1 And then we have to look at the one-third, because I think looking at genetics helps you understand your own bioindividuality because you can say oh yeah i don't methylate as well oh yeah i don't detox as well right oh i have this hla gene variant so my immune system isn't as good at calming down whenever i'm exposed to a stressor or a virus or something like this i've used one called vibrant labs um i like them you like them too are there any others that you recommend yeah and by the way i have no connection with

Speaker 1 vibrant labs is great there's a lab i'm always forgetting because they changed their name it was called dunwoody labs but they changed their name but

Speaker 2 you know they're not usually the conventional ones that you get like Quest or

Speaker 2 Lab Corp or one of the conventional big laboratories, unless your doctor's really skilled at putting this.

Speaker 1 So look at environmental toxin panels. Cyrex is another one.
Cyrex, okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a lot of, I would say, blood, urine, saliva, labs that will look at the immune system in this way, both the gut microbiome immune system and then these environmental toxins, both man-made and nature toxins.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you talk too a lot about the emotional connection with the gut yeah and i rarely hear functional practitioners talk about um emotion and the gut and and you know i talk about the blue zone uh studies all the time because i don't i think people shoot past the the the deeply emotional connection there that that there was no continuity between diets in these centenarians but there was a few things that were contiguous and and non-negotiable one was sense of community and purpose um which i think is another way of saying our emotional state our emotional well-being um And the other was, you know, mobility into later in life.

Speaker 2 And so I want to come back to that emotional connection with the gut, because I think this goes right to the heart of why the majority of autoimmune disease is found in women. And I think

Speaker 2 historically, if you look at female behavior within a familial setting or a relationship setting, they tend to be, sorry, guys.

Speaker 2 And I'm one of you, so I'm not throwing us under the bus, but they tend to be more selfless, you know, more

Speaker 2 putting other people people first before the needs of themselves.

Speaker 2 And there's only so many debits you can take, you know, from the account before,

Speaker 2 you know, you need, you need some credits. And by that, I mean, so far, you can put yourself in the back seat.
So I'd love to talk about the emotional connection.

Speaker 1 It's a massive part of my telehealth clinic. Like for people, I didn't say this, but like I started the first functional medicine telehealth clinic like 15 years ago.

Speaker 1 So I'm like a super nerd when it comes to this stuff, 10 hours a day. I need to get out more.
That's why I'm so excited. It's A to hang out with you, but also I don't get out of that dang room.

Speaker 2 Oh, because you're just doing telehealth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just I'm in a room talking to people online, which I love. It's a blessing.
I'm super, it's a sacred responsibility for me, but I need a break too sometimes. So this is my,

Speaker 1 I go to Gary Breckett's place to hang out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Have some, have some HBOT. Yeah.
The,

Speaker 1 so that's my, for people that don't like my, the context of which I'm speaking with is not some theoretical pontification. It is like just real people getting them healthy.

Speaker 1 And I love what I get to do. Sorry, what was the question?

Speaker 2 Yeah, the question is the question is about the emotional impacts.

Speaker 2 I mean, because I think that

Speaker 2 we use stress as this sort of catch-all frisbee we toss, toss in the air. And I can't tell you how many people go to their primary care docs and they're like, there's nothing really wrong with you.

Speaker 2 You know, just get stress out of your life. What the hell does that mean? I mean, do I just quit my marriage, you know, not talk to my kids and not go to work?

Speaker 2 Because that's where I get my stress from. You know,

Speaker 2 do that.

Speaker 1 I would not recommend everybody do that. Some people should.

Speaker 2 No, I'm saying like it's, it's sort of, it's not, nobody drills into it and says, well, get stress out of your life. Well, how do I do that? First of all, how do I identify?

Speaker 1 Well, then they stress about not stressing because they're like, oh, yeah, you're telling me I already know stress isn't good, but how do I actually decrease it and not just talk about it, which adds to those ruminating, stressful thoughts.

Speaker 1 So the gut and brain are actually formed from the same fetal tissue.

Speaker 1 So when babies are growing in their mom's womb, when we all all were there, the gut and brain are formed from that same fetal tissue and they're linked for the rest of our lives through what's known as the gut-brain axis.

Speaker 1 So the vagus nerve is the largest cranial nerve in the body.

Speaker 1 It gets its root word from the, you know, I think it's Latin, wondering, the wondering nerve, and it's responsible for that parasympathetic aspect of the autonomic nervous system, the resting, digesting, the hormone balance, the anti-anxiety state.

Speaker 1 So we have to look at the vagal nerve tone for a lot of this conversation. It's innervating, it's connecting the gut and the brain.
The gut is known in the research as the second brain.

Speaker 1 Most of your listeners know that, but if you think about it, the intestines kind of even resemble the brain. 95% of serotonin is made in the gut, 50% of dopamine is made in the gut, stored in the gut.

Speaker 1 So, our pleasure and our happy neurotransmitters are made in the gut, stored in the gut. A lot of them are, and they work.
They don't pass through the blood-brain barrier.

Speaker 1 The mechanism seems to be they are communicating through the vagus nerve. They're working on GI motility.

Speaker 1 They're crosstalking between the gut and the brain and the brain and the gut, this bi-directional crosstalk. So

Speaker 1 why we have to look at the feelings, like I wrote a book about this and I called it gut feelings because I saw that cliche of, you know, gut feelings. I just, you know, feel it in my gut.

Speaker 1 I have butterflies in my stomach, a gut instinct. But gut and feelings and how the gut impacts the feelings and how the feelings impacts the gut or physiology is an important part.

Speaker 1 And you can't look and talk to people with autoimmunity and other mystery illnesses that the world would call that. You can't do that for 10 hours a day

Speaker 1 for 15 plus years and not see the mental, emotional, spiritual component of this. You're not going to get them better if you ignore it.

Speaker 1 So I think that as a clinician, it just was

Speaker 1 compulsive because it was so obvious.

Speaker 1 We're talking about things like unresolved trauma as a kid and chronic stress in your present life or both.

Speaker 1 And how, when you look at the research around ACE, the ACE questionnaire, the adverse childhood events or experiences, we have every telehealth patient fill that out.

Speaker 1 And we're talking about like really heavy stuff, like sexual abuse growing up and physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, substance abuse growing up.

Speaker 1 What's your parents' relationship growing up? And the higher your ACE score, you're more likely to have these autoimmune issues or metabolic problems or, you know,

Speaker 1 obviously mental health issues. So it's a piece of the puzzle.
These mental, emotional, spiritual, or the feelings part of gut feelings impacts the physical health so much.

Speaker 1 So, it's part of what dysregulates. So, we're talking about environmental toxins.

Speaker 1 We have to look at these emotional toxins too that are stored in our body. So, it's an essential part of healing for you.

Speaker 2 When you say emotional toxins are stored, you mean that the trauma is stored, so it's kind of stuck

Speaker 2 in this feedback loop because it's not a

Speaker 2 emotion, doesn't create like a specific afloat toxin or something. It's that it's the dysregulation of the nervous system because of your emotional state.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. The body has a memory, so it's living out the past as if it's still happening to some degree.
Right.

Speaker 1 So the autonomic nervous system, again, simplistic way of describing it, but you have the sympathetic, the fight or flight or freeze or fawn, that sort of hypervigilant response.

Speaker 1 You're being threatened, right?

Speaker 1 That's the sympathetic. And the parasympathetic, that resting, digesting state, most people, that seesaw is out of balance.
Like sympathetic is overactive and the parasympathetic is underactive.

Speaker 1 What's governing that parasympathetic is the vagus nerve. So people have, researchers will refer to as poor vagal tone.
It's a weak vagus nerve. Yes.

Speaker 1 And the environmental toxins, like all that stuff we talked about, unhealthy gut foods, inflammatory foods, et cetera, all contribute to poor vagal tone, but so does the mental, emotional, spiritual stuff.

Speaker 1 Right. So yeah, it's, it's not that it's literally, look, we're discovering these mechanisms every couple of years.
I'd be talk to me in 10 years. We'll understand even more.

Speaker 1 But as we understand it now, yeah, it's contributing to the nervous system and neural pathways living in this hypervigilant state and doesn't know how to calm down.

Speaker 1 And even that exists on the spectrum. Dysautonomia is the sort of end part of that,

Speaker 1 very severely dysregulated nervous system. But a lot of Americans are somewhere on that.
dysregulated nervous system. They're stressed, they're wired and tired, anxious and exhausted.

Speaker 1 They don't know how to calm down. Right.
You know?

Speaker 2 And so, what's the, what's the first step towards recognizing and maybe putting, implementing some lifestyle habits that are going to actually bring down my

Speaker 2 emotional stress or lock trauma or just my overall level of stress-induced

Speaker 2 secondary syndrome?

Speaker 1 I would say,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 And for people to keep, like, there's so much self-gaslighting with it around this topic because it's very easy for you to find someone that's gone through worse than you and say, well, yeah, they had trauma, but you know, I don't have trauma.

Speaker 1 Like it's not that bad. It's not the event.
It's the person, it's the experience of that person, right? So there's even bioindividuality with that.

Speaker 1 Like you could have siblings that go through the same childhood and have completely different memories.

Speaker 2 Divorced parents and one

Speaker 1 was highly traumatized and one was fine. One and let it go.
So it's like, what's your even bioindividuality to and perception in which you handled that event in the past?

Speaker 1 So I would would say an ACE questionnaire is a good way to go. It's not exhaustive because it's just talking about childhood.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of things that could be missed if you're, as a clinician, if you're just looking at the ACE. Like I have to look at like relationships in life after childhood.

Speaker 1 And these are things that I'm talking about over an hour and a half to two hours on an initial online console because you have to look at these things that maybe you never even went back to and gave it much credence, but it's a piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 1 It's not the entire puzzle, but something to look at.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I would start, we could just assume it's going to be at least a piece of the puzzle of dealing with that stress and trauma component. For some people, it's a big piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 1 For some people, it's a smaller piece of the puzzle. But I would say bringing in acts of stillness in your life is a good way to check in with yourself and start to like look at this thing head on.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's the first time you've ever looked at it. You know, things like breath work and meditation can be very uncomfortable for people because they've never quieted their thoughts.

Speaker 1 They're so looped up and thinking that they're thoughts and emotions and not that observing presence of them. It's very scary.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you think of people closing your eyes and doing some meditation, creating panic attacks, that's there's a reason why.

Speaker 1 Or then the average person, it may not be that extreme, but they may be doing some breath work and meditation and be really not good at it.

Speaker 1 You know, and it's the people that say, well, meditation is not for me, they're typically the people that need to do it the most. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 Because their nervous system is so disquieted, so used to being distracted and numbed. Like they want to be scrolling the FOMO-inducing content on social media.

Speaker 1 They want to be numbing themselves with food. They want to be doing anything, but being rooted in the present moment.

Speaker 1 And that's a sign that that nervous system dysregulation is an issue, that you are avoiding what is within.

Speaker 1 to heal it and you have to you know that cliche of you need to feel it to heal it is very true when it comes to stress and trauma.

Speaker 2 And you've seen people that address stress and trauma have dramatic changes in their health outcomes.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Yeah. For some people, that feelings part of gut feelings is a significant player.
And I talk to people and they'll be like, oh, yeah, well. I got the food down.

Speaker 1 I got the environmental toxin thing down, but I never dealt with this feeling side. And for them, that's a big catalyst.
And for some people, it's the opposite, right?

Speaker 1 They've really dealt with the feelings feelings part, the mental, emotional stuff.

Speaker 1 They've done therapy, they've done EMDR, they've done trauma work, they've done somatic practices, but they have an unhealthy gut. They're eating inflammatory foods, they have environmental toxins.

Speaker 1 So, a both and not either or approach is how healing happens. However, it's manifesting in your life.

Speaker 1 Believe me, as someone that talks to people all day long, this is a human issue, no matter who you are.

Speaker 1 Like you said, really wealthy, affluent people have these issues, and very everyday normal people, nine to five people, are having this issue because we all live in the same dang toxic soup.

Speaker 2 Hi guys, Gary here. I want to take a few minutes of your time to invite you to my ultimate human VIP community.

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Speaker 2 Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast.

Speaker 2 So for people that,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 not fully embracing the,

Speaker 2 you know, the therapy or meditation route, just like you said, finding time to just be still

Speaker 2 and finding time to be present and silent,

Speaker 2 which I do every morning with breath work. You know, it's really interesting.
I just had a

Speaker 2 I just had a free challenge that I do every quarter or so online. It was an ultimate morning routine challenge.
And I invited some of the most impactful people in the world onto it.

Speaker 2 Lauren Renninger, who's

Speaker 2 one of the few true female billionaires in the world.

Speaker 2 I had Mark Wahlberg on there. He called him from France and he was on a movie set.
I had Stephen A. Smith on there from ESPN.
The reason why I captured these people was because

Speaker 2 I wanted to show some of the most visible,

Speaker 2 very busy, you know, like nobody would argue that, you know, hey, Stephen A. Smith

Speaker 2 doesn't have a very, you know, really busy schedule on ESPN. He doesn't dictate, he doesn't dictate his time.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Schedule of games and appearances dictates his time, which actually adds a layer of stress.

Speaker 2 And I, and, and what was really interesting, I found that I had four or five folks on men and women, both, all different areas of entertainment, sports,

Speaker 2 business. Every single one of them, without me prompting them, said that one of the greatest practices that changed their mind was the practice of gratitude in the morning.

Speaker 2 And I will tell you, five, eight years ago, I would have been the first person to take issue with that.

Speaker 2 Even though I've been a Christian for a long time, a big believer in prayer, I really didn't

Speaker 2 understand

Speaker 2 the impact of being silent, of being still,

Speaker 2 of being present, and of just taking a few minutes for yourself,

Speaker 2 whatever higher power you believe in, to

Speaker 2 be grateful.

Speaker 2 Every one of them said that same thing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 then taking a few minutes to just breathe and not a lot of time.

Speaker 2 It's had a huge impact on my life.

Speaker 2 And it really hit me on this challenge because I was like, here's people, totally different spectrums of the world, but all at the highest end of the socioeconomic spectrum for their field.

Speaker 2 And, you know, without prompting them, they're like, you know, Mark Welberg says, first thing I do, I wake up in the morning, drop to my knees, and pray. Yeah.
Stephen A.

Speaker 2 Smith said, I find quiet time and I just say

Speaker 2 a little prayer of thanks for what, you know, what's going well in my life. Lauren Renninger, who just recently lost her husband,

Speaker 2 you know, very, very tragically and her best friend, you know, said, I, I look in the mirror and I say, Laura, you're, you're, you're great.

Speaker 2 And I, and the fact that that basic mindset of being still and present in the morning, that small practice of self, you know, of gratitude, self-awareness,

Speaker 2 I think that does go lost. Yeah, it does.
A lot.

Speaker 1 And yeah, you're absolutely right. Gratitude is a powerful medicine.
And it's like, it should be prescribed in every PCP's office. And that's not to.

Speaker 2 Well, you don't see pharma go crazy. What did you prescribe?

Speaker 1 You know, 30 milligrams of gratitude.

Speaker 2 30 milligrams of gratitude.

Speaker 1 But the reality, and that's not making light of what you've gone through, right? If somebody's like, just be grateful, just have positive thinking. That's not what this is about.

Speaker 1 This is about what really a present moment awareness of just being surrendered to the present moment and looking at the good things within it, and then facing the dark parts and healing that through that.

Speaker 1 And I think intimately connected to gratitude is self-compassion. Like I saw a study that measured, they had people doing math.
and public speaking, two things that stressed people out, right?

Speaker 1 And they measured interleukin-6, IL-6, which is an inflammatory protein. And they found that people that practiced the most self-compassion had the lowest interleukin-6 levels.

Speaker 2 Wow. And how do you practice self-compassion?

Speaker 1 It's, well, it's so much connected to gratitude. It's a gratitude practice.

Speaker 2 This is how you talk to yourself. Yeah, self-power.
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 Like, talk to yourself like you would a good friend. Like, so many people are really harsh on themselves with this inner critic.
And they're not really grateful. They're FOMO.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of, you know, comparing yourself to other people in your life. There's not a lot of gratitude.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of self-judgment. And we have 30 trillion cells that are eavesdropping on our thoughts and emotions about ourselves.
That's true.

Speaker 2 And about other people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And whether it's compassion to the world around us, which that's a whole other level, like there's so much lack of compassion to other people that think differently than us or vote differently than us or are differently than us.

Speaker 1 We need to, but that self, that compassion begins with yourself.

Speaker 1 Normally people that are really judgmental to other people are really judgmental about themselves.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 2 They're not content.

Speaker 1 They're not content. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They're content with themselves.

Speaker 2 They're dysregulated, right?

Speaker 1 And it's easy to lash out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, but these things are more nebulous because it's easy and more prescriptive for me to say, well, these foods do the X, Y, and D or environmental toxins, do this protocol.

Speaker 1 It is a lot more abstract. It's a lot more non-linear to say, well, like, don't have that trauma or don't have that ungrateful heart, right? Right.

Speaker 1 It's like you need to practice it and they call it a practice for a reason right we all suck at it yeah we all do that's why we need to do it yeah so whether you're in is breath work or meditation whether you're in is prayer and really surrendering to god all the you know the bible says the our body is a temple of the holy spirit so if you have and any faith is going to have some sort of similar concept but like how are we treating that temple right oh gosh and it's not just what we're feeding our body with breakfast lunch and dinner like what are we feeding our head and our heart on a daily basis about ourselves and other people?

Speaker 2 And clean crap out.

Speaker 1 Like, elevate that temple

Speaker 1 because it's important because that shifts your biochemistry in a powerful way.

Speaker 2 I totally agree with that.

Speaker 2 So, you know,

Speaker 2 back to the gut, you know,

Speaker 2 first of all, I wholly agree with you that, you know, finding a practice of gratitude or just taking some time to be silent or you know, aware breath work.

Speaker 2 I try to post every morning and I sort of do a, you know, play on words. I'm like, I'm taking my morning antidepressant, you know, and it costs me zero.

Speaker 2 Or I'll say, you know, because I take a video of me doing the, just getting natural light in the morning, every morning, sunlight in the morning, and doing, doing breath work.

Speaker 2 And I'll also often write down the side effects of improved mood, you know, better emotional stability, you know, clear memory. Yeah, and no negative side effects.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no negative side effects at all. And it's free.

Speaker 2 And if we would just realize the impact that it could make, maybe we would actually make an effort to do it, you know, every day because it's also portable and people can take it with them. Yeah.
And

Speaker 2 maybe the presence of of that would be the absence of their SSRI or some of these other things.

Speaker 2 In fact, I actually saw a clinical study, Joe Rogan, turned me on to about, you know, exercises versus SSRIs.

Speaker 2 And exercise had, I don't want to misquote it, but like a four-fold increase in the, you know, positive outcomes versus taking an SSRI.

Speaker 2 So, you know, again, back to autoimmune, because I think the basis of autoimmune disease, and so many people listening to this, either have an autoimmune condition or they know someone that has an autoimmune condition.

Speaker 2 Every single one of us, every single one of us knows somebody suffering from an autoimmune disease.

Speaker 2 By the time you add thyroid and Crohn's disease and, you know, some of the big,

Speaker 2 big autoimmunes, it's everyone. And

Speaker 2 the fact that it could be this dysregulation from an emotional state, but also a dysregulation from the, you know, the presence of these pathogens.

Speaker 2 So let's

Speaker 2 pick one in particular because we're in Miami. This is the mold capital of the world.
I found out from one of the doctors I had on my podcast. I was like, oh, great.

Speaker 2 I live in the mold capital of the world.

Speaker 1 We have a loving, like, when we have a telehealth patient from Florida, we're like, you're probably moldy.

Speaker 2 Yep, you're probably moldy. Probably moldy.
Where do you live? Miami? Yep. You got more.
Probably moldy.

Speaker 1 Probably a piece of the puzzle. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 first of all, how do we test for it?

Speaker 2 And then what do we do about it?

Speaker 1 So, and remember, mold,

Speaker 1 the context around this is mold is everywhere, right? So we're joking about Miami. It really can be any state.

Speaker 1 I have patients in very dry, arid place, and it's not, you know, in Arizona, for example, it's not the desert that's necessarily moldy, but it's they're piping, they're plumbing within their home.

Speaker 1 It's leaking behind the walls. So the more humid a climate is, the more obviously it's going to be, you know, conducive to growing more.
But don't count yourself out.

Speaker 1 If you live in a dry, arid place and they go, I don't live in Florida. I'm fine.

Speaker 1 It really can be anywhere. It's just more likely to be in more humid areas.
So how

Speaker 1 and the other context is not all mold is toxic. So we have to understand what type of mold are we talking about?

Speaker 1 How much and how long have you been exposed to the mold? And then what's your bioindividual tolerance to that mold, that genetic, epigenetic puzzle, right? So all these variables matter.

Speaker 1 Cause I think one accusation that we can get in functional medicine is like

Speaker 1 fear mongering around something like mold, but it's. People lose the context and the nuance.
Like when I do a social media post, it's not a two-hour consultation.

Speaker 1 So forgive me if I give you statistics about mold and realize that, yeah, I don't want everybody to be freaking out. But the reality is it is a piece of the puzzle.
And

Speaker 1 when you talk to people for a living, it's something that's missed very often. So I wouldn't want to shut up.

Speaker 2 I just want to bring the awareness. Exactly.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 So to answer your question pointedly, just it's a blood, a blood test.

Speaker 1 or your and or a urine test. And I would say both are important because I want to look at the immune system's response to the pathogen, whether it's a mold, bacteria, or virus.

Speaker 1 And I want to look at if you can measure it and a lot of these things you can actually quantify the mycotoxins in the body so looking at the blood the immunological and the toxic burden of mold and then these other man-made toxins that can be exacerbating it and a lot of these like epsin-barr virus and other things that can be reactivated are because of these other toxins because like if the statistic is like somewhere like 90 some percent of people have epstein barr virus antibodies right 90 of people don't have reactivated ebv so just because because you have antibodies doesn't mean it's a reactivated.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, there's IgM and IgG too.

Speaker 1 So you can actually see the difference between dormancy and but I see a lot of people, they'll see like antibodies and then they'll automatically think it's a reactivated, not necessarily, but it can be.

Speaker 1 And mold and man-made toxins can be something that's perpetuating these viral reactivations. So that's where you would start.

Speaker 1 And then I would look at the genetic component because almost always it's going to be this big aha moment of like, oh, that's why I don't, my, I'm sensitive to mold, but my spouse isn't.

Speaker 1 Because there's a lot of like marital relationship gaslighting going on where it's like, they think they're hypochondriacs.

Speaker 1 Like the husband, not to generalize, but the husband typically is like, yeah, she's hypochondriac. She's just making it up.
But you measure, you run his genetics.

Speaker 1 He doesn't have the same methylation and HLA gene variants. So you could be in the home and she's reacting very hypervigilantly.
Her immune system is very sensitive to it, but he's not.

Speaker 1 It's not healthy for the family. Our telehealth patients are typically that canary in the coal mine for the family because these things are carcinogenic.

Speaker 2 It's not healthy for anybody.

Speaker 1 So maybe the guy, it's just going to be this slow burner for decades and it's going to be fueling cancer over 15 years, but she's having problems right now and she's going to save his life by getting that mold remediated.

Speaker 2 So good.

Speaker 1 So these are the type of things that it's not uncommon, really.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And, you know, we see this with metal toxicity and other forms of toxicity.
I mean, our bodies clear heavy metals, like they clear light light metals just at a much slower rate.

Speaker 2 But you could have 10 people sit down and eat the same amount of mercury-laden tuna fish, you know, over and over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 And you'll have a component of them have, you know, critical mercury poisoning.

Speaker 2 Some have elevated mercury levels, and the other don't look like they had any at all. So I think

Speaker 2 you're really

Speaker 2 on point, you know, pointing out this individuality and

Speaker 2 how transulfuration and detoxification, glutathione pathways, all of these things matter in terms of getting waste out. And sometimes we don't think of the cellular waste, right?

Speaker 2 We don't think of this process of metabolism,

Speaker 2 cellular metabolism is a really kind of a dirty process and it creates a lot of junk that we have to get rid of through transulfuration, through

Speaker 2 our detoxification pathways, glutathione pathways. So your genetics play a role

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 very often they predispose you to either healthy or slower amounts of waste elimination. And I'm talking about cellular waste.
And so those people can, like you say, they can be more sensitive.

Speaker 1 It's like that bucket analogy that I mentioned earlier. Like this, our patients typically have smaller buckets, right? Because of the methylation detox, HLA gene variants.

Speaker 1 You can't change your bucket size. You can't change your genetic tolerance to handle stressors, but you can change what you put in.
the bucket. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So maybe like, I mean, the people that we're talking about here, they're like, I can't get away with anything, right?

Speaker 1 It's like, I, I look at my friends and family and they're eating whatever they want. Right.
And I can't like look at a food and I'll have a flare up if I look at a food that doesn't light me back.

Speaker 1 Right. So yeah, it's, that's the epigenetic genetic interplay.

Speaker 2 And then, um, so then specifically, what do they do? Like, if you found, if you found patients with high aflatoxins and, and, and mold toxicity and different

Speaker 2 variants, are you activating their detoxification pathways like sauna, glutathione?

Speaker 1 Well, first, I would say come to Gary Brecka's house.

Speaker 2 Come on over. Yeah.
Just come on. I'm sorry.
I know everything here to get rid of all

Speaker 2 cat machines, hyperbears, sauna. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, look, you, yeah, I mean, what we do, if they have access to these biohacks and tech, tech devices and therapies, yes, let's give it to them. But it starts with some basic stuff, right?

Speaker 1 It starts with, let's clean up the gut. Let's lower inflammation levels in the body.
Let's see how resilient you can be

Speaker 1 by just allowing your body to do what it was created for.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, amen.

Speaker 1 So it's like you, most people, yeah, like let's, if we need to jump to hyperbaric, we will do that when we need to, but most Americans, they're not there. Like, let's just

Speaker 1 see how much of a needle-moving capacity with the free and low-cost and accessible stuff.

Speaker 2 I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 And then from there, then we have in such, we live in such a blessed time where we do have access to technology that our grandparents, great-grandparents, all the generations before us never had access to.

Speaker 1 So, but yeah, so I would start with really, if we're saying 70, 75, some percent of the immune systems in the gut, really focusing on gut health.

Speaker 1 So we do a lot of souping and stewing, like things that are really gentle, calming to the gut, instead of lots of raw foods, being on very like a proverbial siesta for the gut.

Speaker 1 This little break, this reprieve,

Speaker 1 this Sabbath where you can allow,

Speaker 1 when you're brothing and souping, like just think having hearty soups for meals.

Speaker 1 And they could be bone broth-based with lots of good meats in them and pureed vegetables or some soft cooked vegetables.

Speaker 1 And then when they have fruit, I even cook the fruit down, have people cook the fruit down as sort of a compote, like an inside of a pie, because these people, their immune system is stressed.

Speaker 1 It's digesting even healthy foods is stressing an already stressed out

Speaker 1 gut immune access.

Speaker 2 So by like boiling them down, steaming them down to break up some of the hard digestible fibers, things like that, to really soften them, release some of the nutrients and take the

Speaker 2 pressure.

Speaker 1 And not everybody has to start there, but I'm talking about if you're, you have to meet your gut where it's at.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people are there because we have really messed up microbiomes in our culture today.

Speaker 1 But, you know, carnivore, carnivore adjacent gaps, there's a lot of different therapeutic food protocols that could be helpful to.

Speaker 1 from a clinical nutrition intervention standpoint to calm inflammation, to untangle these inflammatory cascades.

Speaker 1 As far as like supplementation is concerned, like glutathione or some glutathione precursor, like N-acetylcysteine, a great binder is going to be needed.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 activated charcoal.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Zeola, diatomaceous earth,

Speaker 1 modified citrus pectin. We're seeing some great success.

Speaker 2 And where do you fall on like sauna?

Speaker 1 I don't want to say non-negotiable, but it's on my list of non-food, non-supplement protocol. It's one of the first things, if not the first thing, that we recommend.

Speaker 1 So, even if they don't have access to a sauna, like even a sauna blanket, like just getting the body sweat, get some exposure to infrared, or traditional sauna.

Speaker 1 And obviously, there's a lot of, you know, better, better, you know, good, better, best when it comes to all of these things. But doing something versus nothing is going to move the needle.

Speaker 1 Most people aren't sweating enough. So, yeah, supporting sweating detoxing is

Speaker 1 supporting detoxification pathways through sweating is definitely

Speaker 1 one of the first things we do.

Speaker 1 Ozone is another game changer.

Speaker 2 I believe I totally agree with that too.

Speaker 1 We were talking about that, you know, Hawkin.

Speaker 2 And how about fasting? I know that you've talked a lot. You've talked really extensively about fasting and

Speaker 2 why fasting works for some people, but not for others.

Speaker 1 Well, it's a hormetic therapy, right?

Speaker 1 It's subject to the law of bioindividuality, just like all these other things we're talking about, right? It's like

Speaker 1 he, for people that don't know, like Hormesis, it's the dose makes the poison, basically, right?

Speaker 1 And I've heard, I don't know if it's true or not, but the legend is it was the concept of Hormesis was a king in the Middle Ages that thought he was going to be poisoned and he thought his mom was going to poison him, which if you know anything about history, there's a lot of royal poisonings going on.

Speaker 2 Oh, really? Just to move the older brother out of the way so I can, sort of, from the younger brother,

Speaker 2 oh, man, I've got the kingdom.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. So this is the legend of Hormesis is that the king took low doses of poison.
So if he was poisoned, he would have built a tolerance to it.

Speaker 1 That's what fasting is. It's not poison, but all hermetic effects in the body, which cold plunge, hormetic.
Sauna, hormetic. Fasting and fasting mimicking diets like the ketogenic diet.
hormetic.

Speaker 1 So the dose makes the poison or the dose makes the body more resilient. It's not a poison.
Meaning that if you're always in a cold plunge, it frees to death. It's not good.

Speaker 1 But does to say that cold plunging isn't good is it's losing the context of it. Same with sauna.
You're not always in a sauna. You would die if you're always in a sauna.

Speaker 1 So intermittent fasting, fasting is still subject to that. It's like, okay, who are we talking about? How long are we fasting? So

Speaker 1 it's the science and art of these therapies, right?

Speaker 1 It's pushing the body to be more resilient. It's tapping into what Paracelsus, you know, one of the fathers of, he was known as, he was the father of toxicology.

Speaker 1 He was known as a Martin Luther of medicine in the early

Speaker 1 1500s in Switzerland. He called fasting the physician within, which I think is a beautiful way of putting it.
It's like, wow, it's like an inner doctor that we can, for free, tap into.

Speaker 1 Some people need more of that inner physician. Some people need less.

Speaker 1 So, too much hormetic effect, just like any of these other therapies that I talked about, could impact thyroid hormones negatively, could impact a lot of things with putting too much stress on the body.

Speaker 1 But to then throw the baby out with the bathwater, which is a horrible

Speaker 1 cliche but it is

Speaker 1 striking that balance where it is a needle mover is where like my part of my job is like it's like okay don't be all or nothing like what's like the way we can bring this tool within your toolbox and for some people maybe they shouldn't do it at all right right but i think a lot of people should we should find a way to use it because it is a way to tap into these healing pathways like increasing sirtuins these sort of gate i mean it's pretty much nobody that couldn't just do a 2012 fast you know

Speaker 2 or 12-12.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not go too late at night, just allow your body to fast through the night. Yeah, it's, I think we overcomplicate things back to our sort of addiction and dopamine.

Speaker 1 We're always wanting to consume, consume, consume, consume. So, we're going to come up with all the excuses in the book to say why we shouldn't consume for a day, you know.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But the reality is, most Americans could benefit from some time where we're giving the body a break.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um, and then we go down the road of, you know, we talked about mold, you know, mycotoxins, virals.
Metals is another really, really big one.

Speaker 2 I actually

Speaker 2 accidentally

Speaker 2 got metal toxicity from a water machine that I got from

Speaker 2 this doctor that convinced me that it was structuring my water. And I'm.

Speaker 2 I'm never that guy that just takes a device from somebody. He's like, oh, I'm just going to start using it or, you know, give me your multivitamin and I'll just start taking it and see how I feel.

Speaker 2 I always, I'm an incessant tester on things. We were talking about this before the podcast.
I started drinking it. Turns out,

Speaker 2 even though he's well-credentialed, it was a modified welding machine that actually had lead welds in it. It was from China.
So I got metal toxicity.

Speaker 2 And I've been very transparent about that with my community and how I'm walking myself out of it.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 I did a provoked

Speaker 2 chelation test and then eight-hour urine,

Speaker 2 spotted the metals.

Speaker 1 What do you use for the chelator?

Speaker 2 Yeah, the MSO.

Speaker 2 And another one, e

Speaker 2 uh i'll get you the second one so i take two um i take them orally 1 a.m 1 p.m chelation uh sauna detox i up my glutathione um uh use gut binders um i space them out between meals yeah um and i've had dramatic drops and i do ozone on a regular basis i hogat um and i'm walking my way out of it and i'm slowly in my vip community i'm posting about it so that so that people can see um you know are these are these levels um coming down?

Speaker 2 Because I figure if I can get it, anybody can get it. And I think as we're wandering our way through life and, you know, you've got

Speaker 2 these aluminum toxicity in the air.

Speaker 2 You know, if you live in Los Angeles, you know, just think about lighting a home on fire.

Speaker 1 What smoke?

Speaker 2 You know, what kind of volatile organic chemicals and polyfluoroalkyls and bisiphenols and all kinds of things, accelerants, leads,

Speaker 2 older homes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so I noticed that you know they they

Speaker 2 publish out there the particulate matter level and and i'm like it's not the number of particles in the air it's like what are those particles that's that's what matters is what are they particles of yeah right i mean because if it's you know if it's just like dust tree bark and yeah you know sand um

Speaker 2 that's not any you know that that big of a deal but if these are accelerants because of

Speaker 2 you know you incinerated yeah a structure, which has all kinds of things in it, you know, paints and thighs and tar.

Speaker 2 That's a whole different ballgame. Yeah.
And so I think we're going to see a lot of, you know, unfortunately for people that were stuck in those environments, a lot of toxicity loss. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the people are,

Speaker 1 it's analogous, I would assume, times, you know, exponentially more as 9-11.

Speaker 1 But the people that were at ground zero at 9-11, the things that they were breathing in, I mean, this is an entire, you know, metropolitan area of these toxic things that people are breathing in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not great.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 the final one is metals.

Speaker 2 So what

Speaker 2 when when we, and first of all, I, you know, testing for metals is, is, is tough because I actually did urine and blood, and they were

Speaker 2 mediocre. And then I did the provoked

Speaker 2 test. And that, I mean, they shut off the charts.
Yeah. Provoked means, you know, I did a chelation to pull them out of the tissue.

Speaker 1 And then that's common. That's common because they're stored in the fat tissue, right? They're stored in the body and it's not in the urine just floating around all the time.

Speaker 1 It's not in the blood always floating around. The body's trying to protect you by storing it in the tissue.
Right. So you have to provoke and put the lab in context.

Speaker 1 If it's provoked, of course, it's going to be higher, but it's that's in the body. Right.

Speaker 2 That's not healthy. It doesn't just come from nowhere.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. It's not like you are artificially spiking it.

Speaker 1 It's just being chelated out so you can measure it and see what is hiding from the basic tests so urine provoked tests for anybody where it's clinically appropriate we should be looking at heavy metals um because it is an issue so yeah we have to we have once somebody finds out that they have them you know where do they go from there um

Speaker 1 Well, look, I think the chelators, the binders that we talked about, the glutathione and glutathione precursors,

Speaker 1 sometimes more advanced chelation like the DMSL. There's other chelation tools that we could do.
But sometimes it's spirulina, chlorella, right?

Speaker 1 It's just like the basic food as medicine to be supporting the body. Yes, sometimes we need to be more advanced with chelation and detox, but I wouldn't start there if you've never done this.

Speaker 1 I would start with seeing, have you have the issue, do the things that I talked about with lowering inflammation, allowing your body to be able to handle this stuff.

Speaker 1 And things like spirulina, chlorella

Speaker 1 can be great. Cilantro can be great.

Speaker 1 The,

Speaker 1 I mentioned glutathione, liposomal glutathione, antioxidants like vitamin C can be wonderful. So

Speaker 1 sweat and sweating, right? A lot of the things we talked about with the biotoxins,

Speaker 1 making sauna, whatever you have access to, whether it's a sauna blanket, infrared sauna, traditional sauna in a gym, making sweat like at least six times a week, start off low and slow, building up a tolerance to it if you're sensitive.

Speaker 1 But these are the things over time, we can start getting that number down. The body's amazingly resilient if you give it the chance to do what it was designed to do.
Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 Some people have more impediments than others,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 it's not, we're not fear-mongering, but you have to know what you're dealing with to do something about it.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look around and say, yeah, we are sicker than ever before. Yes.
And we're up against things that our ancestors, grandparents didn't have to deal with.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they did. A lot of this stuff is post-World War II.
And a lot of this, a lot of this stuff is like since the 1980s and 90s. So it's like, yeah, they were not living in the world we're living in.

Speaker 1 So of course we have to be talking about these things because we've never been exposed to more in such a short period of time.

Speaker 2 What are some of the daily habits that are

Speaker 2 most contributing to the underlying cause of inflammation? You know, I often say inflammation is the root of all evil, right? But,

Speaker 2 you know, what are some of those daily habits where they're,

Speaker 2 you know, that are that are leading to increased levels of inflammation?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I would say we have to start with food because food is something that people are doing every day, or should be doing every day.

Speaker 1 What I call the inflammatory core four are going to be the four food or food additive ingredients are going to be the most problematic.

Speaker 1 And there's bioindividuality, there's nuance and context to this. Like there's always better for you versions of all of these things, right? So it's not black or white.

Speaker 1 But I would say gluten-containing grains would be up on my list. Now, the interesting...

Speaker 2 Would you also say because they probably have the highest levels of glyphosate? Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 Is it the gluten or is it what we've done to it? Yeah, and I think it's more what we're doing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right, exactly. It's herbicides.
It's sprayed with things. We are the soil microbiome.
It's hybridized. So it's not like in biblical times, like ancient grains, einkorn.

Speaker 1 It's not what people are consuming now.

Speaker 1 But historically, grain stored well during times of famine. But now we're feasting on a famine food and we're not properly preparing it.

Speaker 1 We're spraying it with tons of stuff and we're, yeah, we're overconsuming it.

Speaker 1 So there's a lot of like, okay, it's not all or nothing, but it's something that a lot of people should look at because it is a gateway food because of the the gluten and zonulin the leaky gut syndrome that it can trigger then it clearly creates a cascade for lots of people

Speaker 2 i've never heard of gateway food i've heard of gateway drugs but yeah it's a good gluten food i would say gluten with glyphosate is a gateway food

Speaker 1 gateway food to to more inflammation yeah exactly exactly more food sensitivities etc yeah so number two would be of the inflammatory core four would be dairy again it's what we've done to it not the dairy right right it's homogenized pasteurized it's denatured the protein isn't what it once was the enzymes that help break down the lactose and the casein is is beta a1 not beta a2 so humans would have consumed grass-fed a2 raw dairy for thousands of years but we've sort of it's a shell of what it once was right people are having and uh so that would be number two third would be seed oils which is a little controversial but i don't know why it's so controversial

Speaker 1 it's being looped up into all politics but but it shouldn't be controversial. The overconsumption of omega-6,

Speaker 1 not enough omega-3s, the omega-3, 6 to 9 ratio matters.

Speaker 1 Plus, the manufacturing and processing of these things matter.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when you de-gum things with hexane and you deodorize them with sodium hydroxide, what could go wrong?

Speaker 2 My favorite thing is then the American Heart Association comes and puts a heart healthy label right on there. And so it's going to end.
You know, the average consumer is like cruising down the aisle.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 if I'm a mom and I'm getting this stuff for my kids and I'm cooking in the kitchen, I'm grabbing the heart healthy label. Exactly.
Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I don't think the jury's out on seed oils. No, I don't.
The jury's in on seed. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, it's, it shouldn't be controversial.

Speaker 1 Now, there are, you could make the argument, I don't know if I would, but you could make the argument that there are probably better versions, like organic sunflower oil probably is better than cold expeller pressure.

Speaker 2 Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I'm not making blanket statements, but you have to look at its implication. And fourth would be sugar, right?

Speaker 1 Obviously, even the even the nicer-sounding euphemisms, like agave nectar is another one that's like a lot of people within wellness are like, yeah, I'm having all these packaged foods that are healthy, but it's still a lot of added sugar.

Speaker 1 And if it looks like agave nectar, it's, it's almost greenwashed in a way where it's like somebody just squeezed the agave and poured it in the cup and it's so natural, but it's still high fructose, lacking fiber.

Speaker 1 So it's going to impact blood sugar negatively. Right.
So that's the inflammatory core four. And then if I could add one, it would be alcohol,

Speaker 2 which I lose friends every time i talk about but yeah i mean i've completely eliminated it um i drank once last year it was on new year's eve um

Speaker 1 and i regretted it how was it yeah just what did you drink what

Speaker 2 tequila okay um but you know i was like hearkening back to my old you know days when i when i drank i was like looking for that like awesome like i was looking for my you know my night was going to go from a five to a nine and a half yeah and then i would just suffer the next day and it went from you know it just stayed at a five and i still suffered the next day.

Speaker 2 Well, isn't that interesting?

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a testimony, right?

Speaker 2 Because people's

Speaker 2 nine and a half, I would have been like, okay, maybe that night was worth it, you know? Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 It didn't. You just need some methylene blue and some hyperbaric.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I did. Of course, then I punched myself and I was like, you know, I did hyperbarics and red light in my whole, you know, my whole, my whole circuit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You see, you're getting, you're getting

Speaker 1 the euphoria on things that love you back with not without the crash. And I think a lot of people, when I talk about alcohol or those foods, they think like, oh man, like that's a miserable existence.

Speaker 1 It's not. Like avoiding things that don't love you back isn't restrictive.
Yeah. It's self-respect.
So we need to get out of that sort of

Speaker 1 insane, unhealthy relationship with things around us. Like, because continuing to eat things that don't love you back.

Speaker 1 and wondering why you're still miserable, it's like staying in this toxic relationship and wondering why you're still miserable.

Speaker 2 I call cold punching my drug of choice because like nothing makes me feel better for longer.

Speaker 2 And if you've ever been high on your own dopamine for six hours, it's like you won't want to do anything else and you'd start getting addicted to cold punching. It's not about living.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's not about living this sort of acidic

Speaker 1 monk-like life.

Speaker 1 It's really, it's the best of life. Feeling great is a blessing.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, Dr. Cole, this has been amazing.

Speaker 2 I absolutely am bringing you back on the podcast for

Speaker 2 round two. I think you're doing amazing things in the world.

Speaker 2 I really, I deeply appreciate appreciate you coming on. You know, what we do now is I,

Speaker 2 for those that are part of my VIP community, we go into a private room and I allow the community to have some access to you because they knew you were coming on and they're going to ask you some specific questions.

Speaker 2 So if you're interested in becoming an ultimate human VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com and sign up to be

Speaker 2 one of my ultimate human VIPs. This is the community that I'm building to change the world.
And I can't do it by myself, but I can do it with all of you guys.

Speaker 2 But before I end the podcast, we always

Speaker 2 ask every guest the same question. And there's, if you've seen my podcast, you know it's coming.

Speaker 2 There's no right or wrong answer to it. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

Speaker 1 It's being, it's having deep gratitude

Speaker 1 and it's living the life that God has called me to

Speaker 1 and being not thinking I have that entirely figured out. Yeah.
Right. Being open to not becoming overly identified with what I do, right?

Speaker 1 But just being a vessel for him in this life, that's what it means to me.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's amazing, man. Well, Dr.
Cole, where can my audience find you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, thanks, man. Everything's at drwillcole.com.
The information about the telehealth clinic, the books, the podcast. My podcast is called The Art of Being Well.

Speaker 2 I'm about to be on it.

Speaker 2 Be on it.

Speaker 1 Thanks. Thanks so much.
Yeah, but everything's there. I'm on at Dr.
Will Cole on Instagram and TikTok and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 Amazing, guys. So we'll link all this stuff in the show notes.
And as always, until next time, that's just science.