Devin Nunes on the Election and Truth Social

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Hi, this is Victor Hansen, and I'm doing solo today, as I do sometimes with interviews.

And I'm interviewing my old friend, but also my former congressman, Devin Nunes,

who's the chief operating officer of the Trump Media and Technology Group, as you probably know?

And

10 terms, Devin, was that right?

Do I have of that right?

20 years almost as our representative.

That's right, Victor.

Yes,

great to be with you.

You and I are still working.

It's Thanksgiving weekend, but we're still going out.

We're still willing.

I just did a couple of hours of podcasting.

So I wanted to, the reason I called, Devin, I wanted you, you know, your experience.

to give me a take on what you thought was the primary reason.

Was it the new constituencies that he appealed to?

The middle classes rather than just, you know, the old racial, you know, this group, this group, but he was ecumenical?

Or was it the Bad Harris campaign?

It was just a mixture.

I wrote on a column and said it was a mixture of seven or eight things.

Which one do you think was really the decisive factor?

Well, you know,

I did your show interviewed before.

I don't know, what was it about?

Maybe three weeks or so a month ago.

We were very confident we both thought he would win, but you especially were predicting him.

Yeah, and i i i just think when you look at it it was kamala harris as you and i know grew up in a soviet style system in california she all she had to do was work the party system to move up it was never on merit it was never based on what she had done it wasn't on her education it wasn't on any of that she just knew the right people at the right times and was able to move up.

I mean, it's, it's like the old traditional communist system that,

you know, has failed time and time again because you get people that move up through the ranks that aren't qualified.

And that's the bottom line with her is that she just didn't have the experience.

She didn't have the ability.

And she was, I think, on top of all of it, Victor, she was lazy.

No, she's she took a day off the last eight days.

And then you take those, see those pictures.

Why did her staff release those pictures of her asleep on the, you know, on the plane all the the time?

They did.

It made no sense.

Did you see the latest one, Devin, when she did this post-election sort of you have the power?

She was almost disheveled and slurring her words.

I know.

I didn't see it, but

my kids happened to see it.

Oh, wow.

And they were telling me about it.

So she flipped for 107 days on the border, on crime, on fracking, on foreign policy.

Does she now, as a seasoned politician that looks at these types of people, and you've seen them your whole life,

does she flip back to where she was before July?

Or does she, how does she

finesse that, that for this 107 days, she was like a complete opposite of what she's been for 45 years?

Is she going to be on record now with this kind of Trumpian MAGA agenda that she emulated for three months?

Well, the quick answer is I think she's going to be gone for good the the longer answer is

I said she was going to be like Mike Dekakis

yeah we're never going to see her again and you know we just briefly touched on how she moved up in the system you know she moved up in California quickly by knowing all the right people well then she got to know Obama when Obama was president and Obama is what got her over the line to become a dirty attorney general of California, senator of California.

Then he backed her for president when she ran, and then she bombed.

But then he came back again and put her in as vice president.

It was her relationship with Obama that led to that.

But

she became vice president.

And if you remember, all of her staff, you know, many people on her staff had left or departed quickly, early.

Well, those were all Obama-era people who said, and I'm paraphrasing, I don't know for sure, but it went something like this, Victor.

You know, they must have went to Obama and Team Obama that Obama still has in Washington, D.C.

in his beautiful Calorama home where he's tried to take control and keep control of the Democratic Party.

Calorama, for your audience that doesn't know, it's one of the wealthiest roads right on the,

near Georgetown,

one of the highest in neighborhoods where a lot of the...

in Washington, D.C., where the embassies are, where the ambassador's residence are, just the traditional...

Wait a minute, Devin.

How would would you rate that though with the martha's vineyard estate

well it's about equal i think he seems to have those houses the hawaii beach the brand new hawaiian beachfront that might be threatened by global warming someday yeah yeah exactly so but here's what here's what happened though with obama is that after all after all of the you know his kind of people came out of there and said okay this lady's unqualified she's tough to work for they didn't want her so they wanted biden out that's what they they wanted biden out

they tried to get him out they didn't even want him to run but oh you know but biden ran i think with his wife pushing pushing him to run and then it took that kind of

the the debate the kind of pre-debate debate that uh where you know all trump had to do was show up and you know biden couldn't even open his mouth and um without you know just he just looked like an invalid which I think many people in D.C., you know, knew that for

a long time.

And then when Biden got out,

if you go back and look, all the Obama people were all signaling, we need to have a short convention process.

Who do you think they wanted?

They didn't know where they were just going to say it was Amy Kobucha or Josh Apiro.

It wasn't going to be Josh Shapiro.

Gavin, maybe?

You know, I don't even think it would have been Newsom from California.

I think what they would have went for is maybe a couple of governors.

They wanted to get it out of D.C.

Then, Maryland governors.

I agree.

It wouldn't have been Shapiro because

he's seen as

too conservative for the Democratic Party.

But it could have been, yeah, it could have been the lady from,

I think it could have been, you know, governor from New York, Michigan.

There's a lot of different places.

I think you could have picked almost anyone but Kamala and the governor and Walls from

Minnesota.

And I think anybody would have been better than those two.

So it was a, and then it was just,

you asked, how did this all go down?

And why did I think she was going to lose?

Because it probably had to be the

three worst weeks in a row of a campaign after they, because they ran the basement strategy first.

They did, okay, put her in place, give a speech to the convention, have one debate, and then go away, go hide in the basement.

And then that just started to, they...

Six weeks.

it lasted for six weeks.

They kept her off.

You know what I mean?

Nothing as far as.

But they knew, but Victor, they knew, and you now see this now because they've admitted to it.

The Obama people knew that the polls were cooked.

Always.

Those polls were never right that showed her up.

Oh, she's up five points.

She's up.

And we talked about that on internal polls, remember?

Her internal polls showed that she was always, they were always lying.

She never.

So they were kind of shocked that the New York Times and the Washington Post, that take two examples, were lying so much to get her momentum or

donations.

It's amazing.

And then to take the

cake, the master prize was this Des Moines Register Iowa poll that came three days before the election.

I mean, that's when you knew, you know, when the fake news and all the pundits all started saying, oh, my gosh, this race is close.

That's when I really knew, Victor, it was over.

Like, there was, you knew once that Iowa poll came out that three days before the election that showed her up by three or four points was one of the more ridiculous things I've seen in my lifetime in politics.

And I've seen a lot of ridiculous things.

But, you know,

you knew that that was a lie because there was no one was running for no, you know, nobody, no Obama, Clinton, Hillary Clinton, you name it, the governor of the neighboring state in Minnesota.

You didn't see them in Minnesota.

You did not not see them at all in Iowa.

And why is that?

I know.

And we talked about that.

We said, if she has such a, I remember I went back and looked at our conversation.

If she has such a big momentum going,

then, and they were showing her, remember that

she was still neck and neck, if not winning, the Blue Wall three states.

And I thought, I think I mentioned, you mentioned it.

Well, she was,

they were surprised, they were, that even though that she was not going to win New Hampshire or Virginia or New Mexico, the Trump surge in states that, you know, weren't going to be important because they were going to be won by Harris, but they showed her going, I mean, Trump going up by four or five points.

So then you said to yourself,

Well, that's a nationwide, that's a diverse group of states.

So obviously that momentum must go over the border to Arizona, over the border to North Carolina, and it will be reflected in the Northwest, maybe in Michigan.

But it wasn't because they were rigging the polls for those swing states that mattered.

And then the ones that really mattered were,

I think we talked about that, 2016, 2020, it was inside,

it was

Atlas, you know, Intel.

And it was Trafalgar and it was Rasmussen.

And they all had consistently Trump ahead one or two and all of the swing states.

And yet

they had the only record that was reliable in the last

eight years, and nobody was paying any attention to them.

Yeah.

It was just.

Have you been reading all these things about the Democratic donors that are appalled that all their $1.5 billion went to

Private Jets and Beyoncé and Cardi B and Oprah?

I don't think they'll ever give her a dime.

At least we think that.

it's

being that they're so quiet and they're not saying that it didn't happen almost means it probably happened.

You know, we don't know for sure, but the Beyoncé thing is just do you think that these

celebrities would want to put that to bed?

Like, no, I didn't accept

$2 million to do an event.

How could she?

It looks like they did.

I know.

How could she?

Adam Schiff, your old friend from the Housing Town, he outperformed Harris by one or two points in California.

I couldn't believe that.

I mean, he was running against

that

race had no interest at all.

You know what I mean?

And yet he voted, he got more Californians to vote for him than Harris did for her.

Yeah.

Although we don't know yet, Victor, because I don't think they've still yet, they're still counting votes.

It's after Thanksgiving, they're still counting votes in California.

Is your former colleague that you're going to be doing?

You were very high on him, and I am too.

Mike Garcia, he lost, didn't he?

Yeah, yeah.

I think that

it looks like Republicans are going to lose three seats in California.

And, you know, there'll need to be an after-action

report on that because, you know, for somebody who's been in California and seen how corrupt it's become, something doesn't make sense about us losing three congressional seats here in California.

After the election day, it's way after.

Yeah, right, exactly.

Well, in Garcia, that was like maybe 10 days or so after the election.

Michelle Lee lost, didn't she?

Yeah, Michelle Steele.

Steele, I mean, yeah.

Yeah, and it looks like even Doherty from just north where we live.

I didn't know that.

Yeah,

and this just doesn't make sense that you can count ballots for three, four weeks.

And

every time this has happened,

Republicans lose these races.

And Victor, as you know,

there were state assembly seats and state senate seats that Republicans won in California, where the Republican didn't even spend $1.

Nobody had ever even heard of them.

So

there was a Trump surge.

There was a Trump bump, whatever you want to call it, in California.

The Republicans did better across the board.

So why in these districts that have been razor tight the last three election cycles, how is it possible that

the Democrats won?

It just doesn't seem possible

unless there was a scandal or someone had, but I'm sorry, just in northern L.A.

County, Mike Garcia has done a good job.

He's well thought of.

Granted, you're the third or fourth

person down on the ballot.

I just find it hard to believe that people would

vote for Trump and then

get down to the third or fourth one and say, oh, okay, I'm going to vote for this Democrat that I've never heard of.

Especially

he had proven that he could win close races the last two times

when the Republicans didn't do nearly as well as they did this year.

Exactly.

It didn't make any sense.

And there's two appointees who are going to lose those seats for a while at least.

The get seat that, you know, before that seat's gone.

And there's another one.

Is it Stephanie?

Stefanik, Stefanik, and Elise Stefanik, who was on my committee back on the Intelligence Committee during the fun impeachment and Russia hoax days.

Do they only have a two-seat majority for a while or three?

I don't know.

Yeah, I think it's around 220 right now.

I've seen

so let me ask you another question off the wall.

Is there any chance you think any Republican given that Trump flipped, I know he lost by 19 points in California, but he flipped five counties, including

our own, Fresno.

Tulare, I think, had gone for Trump prior.

But you think there's a ⁇ if they had a viable Republican candidate for governor, he could have a close race or is it just gone?

Look, there's signs of life.

I would say there's signs of life, but California has a couple problems.

I'll tell you that the problems it has going for it, and then I'll give you where there is a possibility.

Problems it has is that it has an economy that's just sick and a budget deficit that's just exploding, and there doesn't seem to be any

fix in sight.

Secondly, you've got the state is hemorrhaging Republicans.

So Republicans are moving out of state.

I mean, I just look in my neighborhood, you know, as somebody who spends, you know, quite a bit of time in Florida myself, I just look at the neighbors.

I mean, it seems like every month or two, I have somebody in my neighborhood, in the city of Tulare, that is moving out of state and they tend to be Republicans.

And so, you know, this race, I mean, Trump would have been, if we wouldn't have lost,

you know, millions and millions of Republicans

the last 20 years to Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Florida, you name it, you know, Trump would have gotten a lot closer.

That's that's

people don't realize that.

I keep reminding people that we had 32 years of Reagan,

Duke Mason, Pete Wilson, Schwarzenegger, four eight-year terms.

And, gosh,

it was a normal state.

We lost, I think it's been 25 million people over 40, 10 million, excuse me, over 35 years.

And then we had

open borders and mass immigration.

We had one time, I think,

I don't believe the statistics, but the latest I saw said there was 20% of the California resident population is undocumented.

Well, Victor, but it's so bad now that the illegals don't even want to come to California.

I know.

And you know why?

It's because it simply comes down to financial.

This is why people are leaving.

I mean, you know this.

If you don't have solar panels in California and you're like me because I refuse to like give in and play the game.

And I think you do have solar panels.

I refuse to put them on because I think it's just

such a scam.

You've got to get it.

Yeah, you're paying for my solar panel.

Exactly.

And I'm up to like in peak hours now.

I think I'm close to 50 cents a kilowatt i bet now in florida where it's always hot and and you know you always have to run your air conditioner i think the electricity rate there is like six to eight cents a kilowatt like yeah what the hell is going on where i'm paying five times as much in california i know the air resources board just we had the highest tax gas taxes in the nation they're going to add 62 cents none of them are elected none of them they just they just that's what i was going to say so if it costs you you could just double it if you're in Florida or Texas and it costs you 50 bucks to fill up your car or your truck or what have you, you can figure it's going to be double in California.

You can figure your electricity rates are going to be three times as much.

You're going to figure insurance and everything else, there's nothing that's going to be cheaper.

So as Jerry Brown, I remember he infamously said, bragged at the time when he came back in to be governor,

somebody asked him, oh, well, you keep doing this.

People are going to move out.

And he says, oh, no, no, there'll always be rich people that are willing to pay the weather tax.

Well, he's been wildly wrong because

you've lost everyone from Elon Musk to Oracle to, we can keep going down the list that the golden goose that laid the egg there in Silicon Valley, the golden eggs for so long,

they're gone.

They're leaving.

And I think this is the thing to watch.

is going to be this.

And you'll see it in, you know, when you spend your time at the Hoover Institute, you'll start to see it first.

It's going to be, for the first time in history, we're going to have tough economic time, during tough economic times, like there has been,

you're going to see where you have blue states that are hemorrhaging, huge budget deficits, they have to make cuts, et cetera, et cetera.

And the red states are still in the black.

They're still running a budget surplus.

And that,

I don't think, in my lifetime or your lifetime we have seen before.

Because oftentimes you go into an economic downturn,

you see all the states have budget deficits.

They all struggle.

You're not going to see that this time.

The red states are doing very well.

They don't have those huge Illinois, New York, California pension service debt annually either, like we do.

And

everything about California is so tragic because it's a beautiful state.

We inherited this rich

infrastructure.

I was driving yesterday, Devon, to see my daughter up near Auburn.

I know where you're going with this.

On the 99.

And I mean,

that swath where Elk Grove for 20 miles, it's kind of like where you are from

Tulare de Delano.

It's a death trap.

It's just four lanes and they're narrow.

Yeah.

And people were just...

The trucks were lined up in the left lane and people were trying to zigzag.

And I thought, wow, right near my house, we have this Stonehenge, this high-speed rail, $15 billion, not one foot of track laid.

Then we have Gevin Newsom just announce he moved into a $9.1 million house.

How does he afford that on his $250,000 salary?

These people are totally,

they don't care about what gas is, electricity is.

That's why Fresno County, which is now...

majority Hispanic, that's why they voted against him.

The average Hispanic voter who wants, who has grown up as a a Democrat, does not want to vote for suicidal power bills, gas bills, taxes, insurance.

You name it.

It's on the...

Well, that was what I was going to tell you.

On the positive side, you asked me about, is there hope in California?

There's only hope if the people that are still here, that are working for a living, that have to actually do something for a living.

And you've seen this trend.

You've seen it.

It started happening in 2018.

It happened in 20.

It happened in 22.

And it for sure happened in 24.

We've now had four election cycles in a row where people that actually work for reals.

And in California, it happens to be that there's such a large population of

mostly Mexican-Americans that are here that are citizens,

first, second, third generation.

Those people are now waking up to saying, oh, wait, wait a second.

How come?

They're getting killed.

How come they're getting killed?

Yeah.

How come Bob, my neighbor that I knew for a long time that was a school school teacher or firefighter or worked in as a truck driver, why did he move to Idaho?

Well, Bob tells

his younger neighbor, well, this is a bunch of BS around here.

I'm paying double for gas, double for this.

I'm going to Idaho.

Everything's great.

Slowly, no matter how much you control social media, no matter how much you control the fake news media, eventually the chickens come home to roost.

And that guy working his ass off in Fresno, California, sees all his neighbors that are retiring moving to Idaho and says, oh, wait a second, this is a problem.

And I think, so that's the only glimmer of hope is can you get enough of these people that are working for a living, that are, that are younger,

that happen to be Mexican-American, will they stand up and say, we're going to take a stand.

We remember what it was like in California before

all these people moved out.

And Newsom, we know about your $9 million home there and your other $3 million home and all the corruption and say enough is enough and will they vote to throw these bums out?

I think they hope.

Hopefully, but in the meantime,

it's going to get worse before it gets better.

A lot of the Silicon Valley people that I've talked to,

they say, well, I know we have $9 trillion in market capitalization, but the first, second generations that built Google and the jobs and

they're gone.

They have all their money.

They're retired.

And now it's a dog-eat-dog world, both within the United States and abroad.

And California's regulatory taxation system is so much worse now than the early and late 70s when these things were formed that you start to see not just Peter Till, you know, or Joe Lonsdale, but

Andreessen, Ben Horowitz.

These people were hardcore leftists.

And they're saying,

they voted for Trump.

They gave money for Trump.

And David Sachs, and these people.

They're saying basically to

the Silicon Valley: you may still want to vote left, but if you continue to do that, we're going to destroy this goose.

There's not going to be any more eggs.

We're strangling it.

We can't compete with people who have, especially as AI comes on, cheaper electricity, they have cheaper taxes, they have cheaper home prices for their employees, and more importantly,

we've got to pay 13.2%, and I think it's 15 or 20% capital gains.

And these people, they don't have all that.

And I think they're going to start moving.

That's the only thing that's keeping us afloat, is that huge Silicon Valley income, because it's like a medieval society.

The middle class has been

wiped out.

I was going to say that.

Well,

there's those stable industries in California.

Believe it or not, there's oil still, oil and gas.

There's agriculture.

There's tourism.

There's all these industries that they can't destroy, even though they try to destroy them and they do their best to destroy them.

But you're exactly right.

So, there's always going to be

that stable part of California.

But if you eventually, if you just keep spending and spending and spending, and people continue to move out of state, eventually

you run out of money.

There's only so many fake high-speed rail

lines of track that you cannot lay before you run out of billions.

It's kind of like a race when you look at it, when you see that

left-wing people we called the

mayor and the sorrels DA in Oakland.

They got rid of London Breed

in San Francisco.

They voted for Prop 70, 36 by 70% that restored penalties for looting, shoplifting.

It's like, and then

the Mayor Lurie just said the other day that if you're homeless and you're defecating, urinating, injecting,

fornicating on our streets, we're going to pay your bus ticket to get out of here.

And I couldn't believe that.

But

it's almost like

too little, too late.

It's funny.

I have a great story for you.

I got a call the day after Thanksgiving from a friend of mine from New Jersey.

And he happened to try my wine that I think we talked about last time on your show, but he had the wine for Thanksgiving.

So he was calling me, talking about the wines and was asking where they,

you know, kind of the location.

And as you know, my

grapes are in the San Luis Obispo County area, Paso Robles, some in San Luis Obispo.

And he says, he says, oh, that's

near Santa Barbara.

And I said, oh, yeah.

I said, it's not, you know, it's about an hour and a half north of Santa Barbara.

And

he tells me this story, and he was shocked by it.

And I just had to laugh because he said that, yeah, he was in Santa Barbara over the summer he came for some conference or something and uh he had been there before and you know it was always a little you know it's a nice santa barbara is a beautiful place but has a little bit of a you know

you know a little liberal uh

bend to it but it for the most part it's been a clean place And he said that he'd never seen this before.

He said he saw all these homeless people that were outside of the airport and downtown.

And he said they were begging him everywhere.

He went to the Starbucks and somebody followed him into the Starbucks to get a, to get a coffee.

And he was telling me the story as if I should be surprised.

And

I said, I hate to tell you this, but that's all of California.

Santa Barbara might be the better place compared to everywhere else in California.

Fresmo is that way.

It's just got a whole encampment.

And there's encampments everywhere.

Everywhere.

That's what people don't understand.

Sacramento is as bad as it's ever been.

San Francisco, all the places people have known about.

Santa Rosa.

There are two.

They're everywhere.

They're just absolutely everywhere.

It's like just zombie apocalypse.

I know it is.

And anyway, I was just, I was laughing because this guy was so shocked at seeing this in Santa Barbara.

It's really sad.

The whole state.

Let me change the topic.

So

you go to Mar-a-Lago because you're the

chief executive officer, sir, of Truth Social.

But you also keep,

I know, separate.

you separate business and politics, but you see these people and you know them.

Do you get the sense that our listeners do that

there's a real urgency?

Maybe because Trump is a lame duck, maybe because the first time he came in without prior political experience, he ended up, you know, people recommended a John Bolton or a Jim Mattis or Rex Tillardson or Anonymous.

He had all these people who either weren't on the MAGA agenda page or they were actively, stealthily trying to thwart it or they were even insubordinate.

But this this time, it seems almost as if there's a real sense of urgency that he's got a more professional, really

expert class that are helping him in these appointments.

And he's almost like he's appointing people to these blob

agencies and cabinetcies that have been victimized by it.

You know, Jay Bacharia,

Pete Hexeth, they went after him for war, the War on Warriors book.

I hope I don't want to get into the appointments, but your former staffer, whom I really admire, and a brilliant guy, Cash Patel, has been floated in FBI.

But you get the impression that there's actually a sense of urgency and motivation that they're really going to not just change the deck chairs on the Titanic, but they're going to try to change, if they can, in four years, the system.

Yeah, and I've spent quite a bit of time at Mar-a-Lago since the election, just trying to be helpful where I can.

I've been, you know, obviously we have a, you know, True Social, Trump Media Technology Group is a big company,

really important to the cause for free speech, protecting the constitutional rights.

We have 700,000 shareholders and it takes up a lot of my time.

But

the president, I think, and some of his team are interested in knowing

kind of my thoughts on the intelligence, the Department of Justice, some of these areas that I led these investigations for years.

But you know,

what's most

telling for me is

they don't need much help, Victor, because on the margins, maybe they need some help.

But the easy part about being, about Trump being president again is that, you know, having those four years that he was out of office, especially the first three years being out of office,

he knows who his friends are not.

That's just

really important.

So most people he knows, like the people that are coming around now, like it's just, it's almost laughable that want to get these jobs.

So I've said this for a while, that, you know, pretty much every position, there's, there's, they're three, four, five deep at every position.

And if you're, if you're President Trump, you've focused on this, you, you know, you, you believe that, you know, that your life was spared in order to do big things.

And I think he wants to move fast.

He doesn't,

he doesn't, he, he knows who the fools in Washington are now.

and look there'll be there'll be somebody you know because he'll be a lame duck and at some point you'll get you know you'll get some of these guys that'll probably pop off their mouth but you know what maybe not you know maybe if the president can can do well and president you know president trump can do well and they can get a lot done

you know i think that he'll be able to get a lot done in these first two or three years and i think he's going to be a lot like hopefully like ronald reagan when after he was he was out you know, he was just seen immediately as one of the best presidents of all time.

I think that J.D.

Vance, I mean, I have nothing against Mike Pence, but it just seems to me that ideologically, politically,

Vance is on the same page as Trump, and he's young, and he's trying to, that helps too, to have somebody in the vice president that's completely reliable.

And Pence was, he was workmanlike, but he never felt he had his heart in advancing the Trump agenda agenda to the same degree that Vance does.

Well, there's just the world, the world has changed now.

Yeah, it has.

Because the fake news would run these fake, these, these, you know, constantly, whether it was the Russia hoax or impeachment hoax or the Jan 6 nonsense, you know, all the Jack Smith, the Fannie Willis, all the lawfare that was against the president, you know, culminating with the Des Moines Register hoax, which I think is really a telling sign that we talked about earlier that

just people aren't believing this stuff anymore.

I think that's what's changed, where just slowly over the last eight years since Trump was first president, the fake news media has not only outed themselves, but also destroyed themselves.

I mean, you saw for the first time that

several of the papers didn't even endorse Kamala because they knew the gig was up.

And they knew that they didn't have any influence anyway.

I mean, compared to Trump going on Joe Rogan and social media and just free publicity from doing that brilliant McDonald's gambit and the garbage truck stuff, there's just so many ways to nullify the monopoly on the legacy media and the advantage that she had in money.

He got millions of, hundreds of millions of dollars by just ingenuity of free publicity while she was paying Oprah.

Nobody listened to Oprah anymore.

Nobody cares what Jory Reed says.

Nobody cares what the legacy media says anymore.

It's tough to break through.

It's tough to break through

where we used to be with three or four main

TV stations and some major news outlets.

That just doesn't exist anymore.

And it's part of the,

look, it's part of what we do at True Social too with our streaming that we're developing.

Part of the...

the technology that we're developing is that we see that the CNNs, the MSNBCs, the Paramounts,

there's so many of these companies that are big.

They have old legacy platforms.

They have brick and mortar.

They're inefficient.

And

they're all losing money.

And I think

not going to be around for a long time.

Yeah, I don't think they can afford to build this stream.

You can't afford to pay Rachel Maddow $30 million

to be there once a week and get your audience down to 600,000.

consumers.

Right.

How does that

work?

It doesn't work.

And Hollywood doesn't work with the woke nonsense.

So part of the technology that we've built is streaming technology.

So

as more and more people are going to cut the cords

for their TVs and they'll be watching on their phones,

their tablets, their TVs, they'll be putting what's called OTT.

We've developed new technology for that

to basically be there to pick up the pieces.

So that when a Newsmax or a One American News or Real America's Voice with John Solomon, who I know you know well, when they can't get on these legacy platforms, we're going to have that home.

We're going to be that home.

That's technology that we're going to be rolling out in 2025.

And look, we're basically betting

the future of our company on that.

that we're going to have efficient streamlined technology to pick up all the pieces where these woke fools have wasted these great brands that have been out there for decades, that spent decades to build these brands up, that have essentially wasted all that.

We plan to be there to pick up the pieces and to create a home for family-friendly entertainment and news and religious channels and documentaries, things that for the last 10 or 15 years have had trouble getting on to the legacy channels or a Netflix or an Amazon Prime.

So that's part of what I spend time doing every day is making sure that we protect people's First Amendment rights.

And I think there's a wide open field for

our movement, for our companies really like a movement, a movement to protect free speech.

And that's what I spend my time doing.

And in between time,

making my best recommendations that I can for personnel for the new administration.

Yeah, I get the pressure from people who listen to this, who write or call.

It's

so yesterday.

I mean, the idea that Netflix has $50 million to give the Obamas for quote-unquote content creation when they're losing money.

You know what I mean?

It doesn't, the whole, or Obama going out there right during the last days of the campaign and thinking, I'm going to pop up

and then in kind of a performance art moment, I'm going to tell African-American young people who have to pay these exorbitant prices for food, gas, I'm going to tell them you're racist, you don't know you're racist, but you are, and you're sexist, because you don't know what's good for you as I have determined for you, and that's Camilla Harris.

And you've got, and that, I don't think that talking down to,

I guess what I'm saying is that all of the old establishment rules, protocols of the last few decades, that blacks are always going to vote the way that the Democratic Party tells them, that Hispanics are always going to do the same, that you have three network channels, that there's three car companies, and you're not going to have anybody able to break into

That NASA is going to be the only provider of space travel.

I think it's all over with.

It's just a very exciting time.

It's like it's frontier days.

You know what I mean?

That

the world is open to people with talent.

And I just think people are just excited about it.

I really do.

I've never seen so much excitement after an election.

Aaron Powell.

And I also believe that President Trump has a mandate.

And

he, he, us, the movement that he stands for, have been treated poorly by

this last regime.

And they corrupted nearly every institution and agency all the way down to the archives, the National Archives.

I mean, from DOJ to the National Archives, it's all been corrupted.

And people voted for a change.

They voted to get in here and fix this stuff.

And I think that's what,

because President Trump has not only been treated so badly by our own government, he now has the mandate to fix it.

And so can you do it?

That's really important because I've been doing a lot of podcasts, doing interviews and stuff on Fox, Newsmax, and stuff.

And a lot of people made this point that I tried to dispel that, well, he didn't win 51% of the vote.

It varies because, of course, these late ballots have gone down, I think, almost to 50 even or 49.9.

And

he did win a big electoral, but that's not the point.

The point was that he championed A, every single issue,

secure borders, sensible crime policy, sensible natural and gas advocacy, deterrent foreign policy.

on the social issues, no abortion on demand in the ninth month, the last day of birth, that kind of craziness, or men spiking the ball down the throat of women and claiming that there's no difference because they're trans.

And

he championed issues that were, if you look at them, they were 60, 40.

In other words,

he was the messenger for messages that even outpolled him.

And more importantly,

He was the victim in 2016, 2020, 2024, of about $5 billion

in negative advertising, in

corrupt media, in collusion with the FBI and social media, two assassination attempts, trying to get him off the ballot in 16-cent states, five civil and criminal lawfare suits.

You know that you and Cash and all of you guys stopped, the Russian collusion hoax, the laptop disinferred, all of that, and he still gets 50% of the vote.

That's why it's a mandate, because no one else would even be alive.

They've never in the history of American politics tried to utterly bankrupt, socially ostracized, destroy a candidate, and yet he survived it.

And then they think, well, he should have got 55%.

No, he should have got 20%

given what they did to him.

Yeah, that's right.

And he survived, and he got these issues that everybody wanted.

So he does have an overwhelming mandate.

Absolutely.

Yeah, not only that, Victor, but I would say that when you take out

the

deep blue cities where he even did better, but you take out kind of these blue states that are continuing to

do worse, Trump did better, I read, in almost every county in America, all but just a few.

And then he did overwhelmingly well in the red states that are getting redder and happen to be where people are voting with their feet and they're leaving these blue states and going to those red states.

So, you know, he at the same time, he represents, you know, 35 states that are, and I may have that number slightly off, but 35 states that are growing in population that are sick and tired of the stuff that's happening in the blue states.

And so, you know, he, you know, he has a mandate and he also has a big job to do.

These are tough problems that have to be tackled from

the border to DOJ to the military to

the trade imbalances.

But you're exactly right.

I think you say it right that he won big, and the issues that he stands for are popular issues.

And that's despite the five, if you're being generous with the $5 billion, I think it's probably

$25 billion in the last four years that's been spent against him just non-stop.

Because you've got to remember, it's not just the...

fake news media and all the social media companies that are against him.

It's every government institution.

It's every foreign government.

Hollywood, academia.

Yeah, but even the foreigners, Victor, it's even the foreign.

Why are they all you've been at Mar-a-Lago?

Haven't you seen these people like Trudeau and everybody parade in as if they're his long-lost friends?

Yeah, they're, hey,

I was in a,

I shouldn't even say this, but I will because it's your podcast, but I'm not going to give up the country.

But I was in a,

I was, I was in a foreign country about a year ago.

And

typically I had good relationships with the different intelligence agencies that I had worked with over my years in Congress, chairing the intelligence committee.

And I had a

one of the intelligence services says, oh, we'd like to, you know, get let you, we have a new prime minister.

We'd like for you to meet with the prime minister.

And I says, yeah, sure, no problem.

I'd love to do that.

Well, it came back that the prime minister didn't want to meet with me because I was part of an extremist movement in

the United States.

And now

I, now I laugh.

Now all these prime ministers are all begging me to get an audience.

I bet.

I bet.

With President Trump.

But that's what I'm saying.

It wasn't just all the stuff you and I know about.

It was globally.

This had manifested itself globally with these.

global elites that you know that have that should know better but don't that just follow the fake American news and it poisoned the entire globe and you know look there's just serious problems out there I mean there's you got the mess in Ukraine and Russia the meth in the Middle East dealing with Asia

and look from what I can what you know I believe obviously I'm a big supporter of John Ratcliffe at CIA and I do believe that that you know Cash Patel you know one of my top deputies will get

will get you know somewhere in the administration.

We don't know where yet, but it just seems like he's you know, the adults, President Trump are putting the adults back in charge and the ones that are not going to be out for themselves.

I think many of them will do a good job for the next four years.

Yeah, I do.

And I think

he's got a, you mentioned all these problems, and he's only got four years.

But

the biggest thing will be, it'll be interesting because we've had people who cut taxes.

Reagan did, but Reagan tried, but he really didn't cut spending.

So we get these deficits.

But we've never had a president who said,

I'm going to cut taxes.

I'm going to not run up the deficit.

And I'm going to do that because I'm going to cut a trillion or two dollars on the annual budget.

That'll be interesting to see because

there's so many dimensions of so many federal employees.

There's so many subsidies.

And some of them go to conservative groups.

It's going to be really, I hope, you know, people in Iowa and Nebraska and Kansas, if he goes, if Elon and Vivek say that we have to cut alcohol, you know what I mean, ethanol subsidies, that they'll be reasonable about it because you're going to have to cut, cut, cut.

And we need to cut taxes to make the economy competitive and dynamic.

And it'll bring more revenue, but in the short term, you've got to cut.

And I hope he goes after things that I know about because

I don't mean that I'm an expert, but I've dealt with them and I've been frustrated.

And that's, you know, they're not big items, but things like the National Endowment for Humanities and the grants and,

gosh, public TV, public radio.

I mean, I'm not saying they need to eliminate them completely, but they need to go in there and just say, wow.

The only challenge I think that lies ahead for this, well, it doesn't matter.

It's this administration or any administration.

That if you're truly going to get your handle on

the debt and the deficit, It runs through healthcare.

Yeah, it does.

Because healthcare is roughly 20% of the GDP, I think a little shy of that.

And it's the biggest spending that's occurring in the budget between Medicare and Medicaid, and then the unfunded liabilities of those.

So that's going to be the challenge is, you know, there's so much money being spent on healthcare, but yet our healthcare seems to get more and more inefficient.

And that's one area that hasn't been a focus of this campaign

at least.

But it will need to be a focus, I think, if,

and I said this to Elon

at Mar-a-Lago, that

if you really want to,

you can work around the edges on all the fun stuff

that are fun to make fun of, that the government's spending money on and should be eliminated.

But the harder part is, how are you going to fix, how are you going to fix healthcare?

Yeah, you have to have more,

open it up to more competition because

it's just, it's not working.

Maybe RFK, I don't know.

I hope he doesn't take a hard left approach and try to nationalize, but I hope he won't.

But that's where he can save a lot of money in HHS.

And I know that we talked earlier about Jay Bachari.

I know he's going to try to cut just in a,

it's a huge budget, but it's a very small percentage of the budget, 50 billion in NIH.

But I hope that would set an example.

Let me ask you a couple of final questions, Devon, before we end.

If somebody wants to buy your wine, where do they go?

Oh, yeah.

Because we talked about that and I had a lot of people.

Yeah, last time they called me.

They called me.

I had a lot of calls and emails.

They loved your wine and they wanted more information about it.

Well,

it's my fun hobby, and I hope that

if you're interested, DevinNuniswines.com.

And matter of fact, Victor, we'll do free shipping.

So if you put in the promo code VDA.

Yeah, we'll ship free.

But yeah, if you get your order in, we can get it shipped out.

A lot of people enjoyed it for Thanksgiving, but if you want to use it for Christmas gifts or Christmas

dinner,

you can join the wine club.

You get 20% off.

You get a case of wine that ships every November.

Obviously, it'll ship before Christmas this year.

But yeah, I think

it's a fun fun project.

It's what I call the confluence of science and art.

And it really is.

It's taking agriculture that you know so well, but then you know, taking, you know, looking at wine, which is, you know, when you make fine wines like I'm doing,

it's kind of the confluence of time, place, and people, right?

So where is the wine growing?

What's the climate?

What year was it growing in?

How was the weather?

And then who are the people that developed that wine?

Because there's also the, it's getting the science right, but then at the end of the day, to make high-end fine wine, it really comes down to an art.

And, you know, it's something that, as you know, I grew up in the industry, enjoyed it.

I have a lot of friends in it, so it's something I enjoyed.

Time I put it, it's the only thing I do outside of running through social and trying to protect the country.

You missed politics.

You missed politics?

You want to get back in it?

Or are you

been there, done that?

Well,

it's like I talked about, Victor.

It's,

you know,

True Social

and the Trump Media Group are a company that's never really existed before because we are a publicly traded company that we had to fight to become a publicly traded company after the Biden administration spent two years trying to keep us from becoming a public company.

But we're truly the only public company ever in history that is there there for one reason and one reason only, and that is to protect your constitutional rights.

We're a movement at the same time, we're a public company.

And it's just, it's very rare.

And I don't think there's another example in history.

And, you know, so there's a lot of work to be done, but because, especially the last two years, it's been so political.

And it shouldn't have been political.

but it has been.

Hopefully now

we can really move forward on

you know, not having to deal with the nasty politics.

I think you can just

build a company.

And, you know, hopefully that's the case.

And then there'll be areas that, you know, I've told the president, whatever he needs help doing,

I'll be glad to do it.

But in the meantime, you know,

I'm here building a company.

I have my great hobby with wine.

And I guess you could say my hobby is now politics too, because I still give advice to as many people that want it, from the president to Cash Patel to John Ratcliffe to my old buddies in Congress.

I'll give them all the advice they want, but it's free advice, so

you know what that is, you know what that's worth.

Well, it's a very exciting time.

It's a very exciting time.

I have zero influence.

I've talked to Trump, but I don't ever call or anything.

But you would be surprised the number, and this didn't happen until, I guess, because I wrote a book about Trump, but I never had anybody call me like this year.

Maybe I get seven calls a week, but this is my point, Devin.

I'd say six of them.

I don't say anything, but they were people that I can, as soon as I hear them, I can locate in my mind their attacks on Trump, you know.

They were kind of never-Trumpers.

But even the never-Trumpers now are trying to reinvent themselves and to be, and they didn't do that in 2020 or 2016.

So it tells me that even his enemies feel that he's sort of like Roadrunner and Wiley Coyote couldn't get him.

And he's just indestructible and they want to be part of it, even though they're obviously disingenuous.

But it's amazing.

It really is.

That

there's a sense.

And I just saw, you know, he's polling 55%.

Biden's 36%.

And I look back at the polls when Biden,

in May, Biden was 46, 44, Trump.

So this is the most amazing

political comeback in my lifetime.

It's much even more impressive than Richard Nixon, who lost the 60 presidential race and the 62 gubernatorial race, and then won in 68, or Reagan, who failed at a last-minute gambit in 68 against Nixon, and then 76 against Ford.

And then, you know, at 69 years old, his third try, he made it.

It's even more impressive, given the odds that he was up.

And it's not only the biggest political comeback in history, but it's also the biggest political movement in modern history, for sure.

I just don't think there's been anything like it.

And it's almost in many ways,

it's a global movement.

It is.

And, you know, people say it's the, you know, there's all kinds of new terms for it, you know, anti-globalist, populist, populist nationalism.

You know,

what it really is about, to me, I just sum it down to real simple.

People want common sense in government.

They don't want any more of the nonsense.

So, and that's what I think you see where Trump brought in a lot of people.

You know, they don't like RFK or Tulsi or, you know, conservatives don't like them.

But, you know what?

Trump said, look, I'm going to build a political movement.

We're going to have a unity government.

I'm going to take a coalition of the willing who will stand up to tyranny.

And so this movement is just bigger than it ever has been before.

He's obviously the face of it, but there's millions of Americans and millions of people around the globe who are just tired of seeing

the corrupt governments, the corrupt bureaucracies, and having no common sense in government.

And I just think it's a movement about common sense and decency and protecting people's rights as individuals.

If we had this conversation four years ago and we said

four years from now, Donald Trump will have people who took a knee and they're going to be doing dancing to YMCA on the football field.

You know what I mean?

Or you're going to have people

who assured you, the George Wills, the David Frums, the Bill Kristol, that Donald Trump could never be reelected or even elected because he was a racist.

And you would say to them, he's going to get a record number of blacks and Hispanics that we haven't seen ever

in the modern republic.

They would think you were crazy.

And so it's really a radical, revolutionary change.

I know it's a return to, I wrote an article the other day called Return to Normality, which is it is, but it's just so 360 degrees, culture, economics, politics.

You just don't get the feeling anymore that somebody's going to go knock down a statue and everybody's going to allow that to happen.

That's great.

Or somebody's going to, you're going to go to school one day and the name is going to be changed.

Or there's going to be trans dancing at Pentagon bases.

You know what I mean?

It's, that's what I think you mean by that.

I do.

Yeah.

I call it common sense.

You call it normalcy.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you something, another

interesting story that, you know, just anecdotal about,

you know, you mentioned things that we wouldn't have seen four years ago.

But I'll tell you, I just went to a friend, a college friend that had his 50th birthday.

And things that

we were just sitting around talking.

And,

you know, had had we thought, you know, if we would have sat around and

came up with the wildest things, and you know, in college, you can come up with lots of crazy ideas

during

the time that you're studying or partying or whatever you may be doing

in college.

And

of all the things that we would never come up with, we would have never come up with

when I was graduating college is that in

30 years, there's going to to be women or men playing women's sports and it was going to be normalized,

attempted to be normalized by the guy.

I said, I would have bet you whatever, I would have bet anything.

We would have laughed at that, Victor.

We would have laughed at it because it's just so ridiculous.

So even

you could go further and say, and anybody who would dare suggest that somebody who was a biological male had an advantage and that person would be ostracized and demonized for even suggesting suggesting that.

That's even crazier, you know what I mean?

That we'd gone so far.

I don't know.

I don't want to be too Pollyannish, but I really am excited about what's in store for us.

I think it's the first time in my life that I've seen, maybe I felt that way a little bit with Reagan, but it just seems to me that the country said, I've been there, done that, I want to try something new, go to it, and we're going to give you our support.

And I hope that Trump can pull it off.

He's got a lot of disadvantages.

He's got a lot of enemies, but he's got a lot of people behind him, more people behind him that are against him.

Well, and there's, look, there's a wide open field here to run in for Trump.

And it's at the same time, we talked just a little bit about it.

The fake news media has been destroyed.

The legacy Hollywood media companies are being destroyed.

There's going to be a lot of pieces to pick up just on the technological front.

There is.

You have the way people receive information is rapidly, rapidly changing.

And then I would say, secondly, you know, you also have this, this, this movement, which we didn't talk about this, but this movement towards, you know, cryptocurrency.

And, you know, and I've, you know, I've not been one that's been, you know, on that bandwagon, but you can kind of begin to see it as you've seen time and time again, the, the, the, the central bankers, not only in the U.S., but also globally, who have played just one too many games.

And people are just tired of seeing the printing of money and the inflation.

And so now the technology, what was kind of a concept and an idea, the early stages of the technology and the crypto and cryptocurrencies, you're now going to see that.

I believe you're going to see that go mainstream now, Victor.

I know.

I think so that's another big change that's going to happen that we don't know exactly how that's going to change not only the United States, but

the globe.

I believe it's going to mean less power for Wall Street, less power for the central bankers, less power for the big banks that, quite frankly, in 2008, against my wishes, because I didn't support those big bailouts,

it was an overreach in 2008 that now has taken

almost 20 years, but it's manifested itself globally.

Technology has caught up, and I think you're going to see a change in the way that currencies move around the world.

And it's happening in my field in academia.

You can see it.

I mean, when your colleague Stefanik dressed down the presidents of Penn, Harvard, MIT,

and then two of them resigned and Stanford president resigned and you can see it, that that old academic protocol, oh,

we're Harvard, we're Yale, we're Stanford, that's worse.

No, it's not.

You spend higher than the rate of inflation on the tuition hikes.

Your endowments are not used for anything other than partisan purposes.

Your curriculum has been watered down.

You have racist practices and hiring admission.

And everybody knows that.

And it's, gosh, the alternatives now are, you know, homeschooling and internite courses.

And Hillsdales, the Hillsdales are booming.

The legacy universities are in trouble.

And it's just across the board that everybody says, you know, we don't have to keep doing this the way that everybody told us.

And

Hollywood is a good example.

Their reference point of prestige.

You know,

I'm a Hollywood blockbuster.

Who cares?

Ask American, when's the last time you went to a first-run movie in a movie theater?

They don't, you know, Sharon Stone was trashing Trump in the Italian film festival, but who cares which Sharon Stone says,

right?

Nobody does.

Well, I don't know how you screw up.

I haven't watched it, but

the Gladiator film that

the

Gladiator Screw, I think they're calling it.

The first Gladiator film was an amazing film, been one of the most widely watched films for the last 20 years.

How you could screw that film up, which I haven't seen it.

I'm not going to go see it, especially now that I've seen the reviews, but it sounds like they made a woke gladiator, if you can believe that.

Or even if they didn't, they had to at least give some indulgences, Ridley Scott did, to wokenism.

So it won't be in the same spirit of the original.

Yeah, you're right about that.

And

it's kind of a confusing thing because all of the old standards you don't care about anymore.

And,

you know, on the campus of Stanford, it's been amazing to see that,

you know, everybody said when you get back to school, it's going to be really bad, man.

That four months of Hamas, you know, and those guys stormed the president's office.

And I said to him,

Well, you know, Trump's going to win, and that's going to change the complexion of the whole country.

And if you're from the Middle East, in Egypt, say, or or Jordan or the West Bank, and you came over here and everybody in the Biden administration gave you a pass, but you're on a student visa and you commit a felony,

the new atmosphere is going to be, well, you don't need to have a green card.

We're going to give you your wish to go back home.

And if you're a student and you go into the president's office and you destroy it, that's a felony.

And so all of a sudden, The campus is quiet.

The people who trash the president's office are facing felony charges.

Even in a left-wing place place like that,

it's altered suddenly.

And it's like, wow, I was in a coma.

The country,

I'm America, and I'm in a coma.

And somebody

slapped me and I woke up and wow, what happened?

Who did this?

This is crazy.

I can't do this anymore.

And it's kind of exciting to see what transpire.

It is.

Absolutely.

Anyway,

Devin, thanks for giving your precious time while on vacation.

You're at the seashore, right?

I am.

I'm over in the San Luis Obispo County and, you know, working a little bit on my

checking out my barrels and

looking forward to next year's, looking at this year's crop and looking at what next year's crop is going to be like.

And then back to Florida on next week.

That's an enviable life going from the...

the wine country to Florida.

But congratulations on everything you've done.

Everybody's very happy about Truth Social.

So many people have thanked me for what you did by exposing the whole Russian collusion hoax that kind of unraveled the whole leftist project to destroy Trump, you know, the disinformation and all the stuff that followed.

But really,

it was the standing up to the Russian collusion hoax and this Christopher Steele craziness that gave people hope.

And I've been told that so often.

So I want to thank you for that.

I appreciate that.

I think everybody realizes that you're kind of a folk hero, and we all appreciate it.

So, I'm hoping to have you back soon, Devin.

In the meantime, thanks a lot, Victor.

Anytime.

Well, thank you.

Bye, everybody.