Conversation with Devin Nunes

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Hello to the listeners of the Victor Davis-Hansen Show.

Welcome to our new podcast we're launching.

It will be an interview series, and today we have Devin Nunes on deck for our interview.

I would like to remind everybody that Victor is the Martin and Ely Anderson Senior Fellow in Military History and Classics at the Hoover Institution and the Wayne and Marcia Buskie Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College.

He is available at his website, victorhanson.com.

That's H-A-N-S-O-N.

And you can join as a subscriber for $5 a month or $50 a year.

It's a great deal with about 2,400 to 3,000 words that are exclusive to our subscribers under the VDH Ultra material.

Before we get to Devin and the interview with Victor, we need to take a break.

So we'll be right back.

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Welcome back.

And we're very excited to have Devin Nunes here.

He is the congressman in our area in the Valley for the last, he's had 10 terms as congressman.

And I think perhaps more interesting to me is that he held his ground in the investigation of the steel dossier, regardless of the press and the accusations against him.

So we're really happy to have him and I'll let you take it from there, Victor.

Well, thank you.

And my honor to have a friend.

We both live right next to the 99 Freeway, about 25 miles apart.

I've known Devin for a long time.

I followed his career for 20 years in the Congress, and he is the CEO of Truth Social.

And because that is a radical idea to offer an alternative to Silicon Valley, I thought we'd have him on and for the first 10 or 20 minutes explain exactly what Truth Social is, how you can get on it.

And, you know, Devin, I thought I'd start.

We get all of this information about Facebook and Twitter and Parlaire and Rumble and Hive and all of these things.

Why don't you just, what is Truth Social and what exactly makes it unique in this really crowded market?

Well, Victor, thank you and Sammy.

I really appreciate being on your podcast because we are a

obviously we're friends and neighbors and you've been a great mentor of mine for all these years.

But also you should know that I'm an avid listener of your podcast.

I don't miss one.

I don't miss one.

Obviously

with Jack uh and sammy as your as your co-hosts i enjoy it when i'm flying back and forth um from basically california to mostly florida now we're we're a florida-based company and i think that's something that is of interest to you with your background uh working at the hoover institutes the great one-time great silicon valley um why would the fastest social media startup in history decide to relocate not to california and come to California.

Why did we start in Florida?

But the bottom line is that True Social is a company that was started by President Trump.

And

it's a very simple mission statement.

We're going to open the internet back up in order to give the American people their voice back and ultimately around the world.

Because social media is where, like it or like it or not, if you, and everybody sees this, you go to a restaurant or a doctor's office or a baseball game it doesn't really matter you will see a third to 80 percent of the people on their device all the time and you know so much so that it it's really changing human nature uh which is very disturbing and victor as you know i've got three young girls and yeah you know it's very very tough uh to keep them they're addicted to these damn ipads and you know we have to we have to take them away from them but the bottom line is that it's the way we communicate now around the world is over the internet and through social media.

So

what I don't understand is that, so Rebecca Mercer and her group had just stunning initial success with parlaire, parlay, or parlaire, however we use the French or American pronunciation.

But after January 6th, there was sort of a collusionary effort to strangle it.

And as I follow True Social,

I see attacks on it from other Silicon Valley companies that either try to boycott it or won't do business, or hackers that have given you guys that have gone after you or put phony accounts.

The media keeps pronouncing your premature death.

Even the federal government, there's some worry, I think, that the federal government will, under the Biden administration, because it's been weaponized, will go after you.

How do you survive?

when you're dealing in such an environment and Silicon Valley has $6 trillion of market capitalization against you.

And I mean that literally against you.

What's your strategy?

How do you

yeah?

So, so, so, so, very, very good question.

So, you know, I like to say that Donald Trump didn't need a new company and I didn't need a new job.

But the mission to give the American people their voice back is the most important issue at the highest level.

And I had had this conversation with many of my former colleagues in Congress, many people

in the media, and including with you, Victor.

But I was one of the first people to actually catch these tech tyrant companies doing what's called shadow banning.

So back, you mentioned earlier the Russia hoax in the introduction, Sammy did.

And during that time period, I didn't have any way to get my message out because I was getting you know, dozens and dozens of fake news stories every single day being remarked.

And the only way I really had, I had a few, I had a, there was a few legitimate journalists out there that I could go to that would do real investigative

reporting,

but, and that was fine.

It was easy to work with them and they could push it down.

But then what you would see is when you went to Google search those

stories, good luck.

You couldn't find them.

And so I had no choice but to, I'd have to go to use social media, which I had Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

And I quickly discovered that that i was being shadow banned and so we caught them doing that i think in late 17 early 18 which is right in the heart of the russia hoax uh scandal that we uncovered and so

i started to look for alternatives and you mentioned parlor i was the first uh republican to go to parlor and get an account And I watched it just take off to the moon.

I quickly had more followers, more engagement than I had on all the other platforms combined.

And it was really a breath of fresh air.

And I started to learn and see the landscape that you can have all the money in the world, but you can't stifle free speech.

And Parler was growing without Donald Trump, without any major Republicans, without the new, you know, even the conservative or center-right

news media outlets didn't initially

go to Parlor.

And even even in the end, ultimately the story ends with Amazon was the big culprit, but Amazon cut their cords and knocked out their servers.

And boom, they were sent to the dustbin of history, as they say.

So I've been following Truth Social in the first, say, the hectic 90 days.

And it seems like the media have these these op-ed writers and that are, you know, they're working with the hard left and they have these fake news stories that you guys are failed, you're broken, there's an investigation, there's this, there's, and they're trying to strangle you in the crib.

Are you in that you're adolescence now where that's impossible and that you're growing at such a rate that they're going to have to get with it and accept it?

Yeah.

So what we did, so I went to parlor, saw that take off.

I also, as you know, I had my own podcast and I had to create it.

I started my podcast.

I was the first congressman, I believe, or close to the first to actually start a podcast.

And I didn't do a podcast because I,

you know, because I needed more to do.

It was the only way that I had that people could hear directly from me.

They could sign up, get my podcast, you know, just like they do with yours.

And it was my way to get around the fake news.

And I think that

I set, I'm probably the first political player in history, at least at the congressional, at the federal level.

And you know this very well better than anybody, Victor, I cut off all the fake news.

I mean, even the local media, I completely cut them off, right?

There was no way, you know, and I had told them very clearly, you remove your fake news stories or I'm gone.

Like, I don't talk to you, period.

And it drove them absolutely baddie.

And of course, I'm in numerous lawsuits with many of those news agencies now, but I don't think there's anyone who has ever done that.

And yet, you know, I have been very clear to my former colleagues and to anyone who is center, center, right, who doesn't want to be politically censored.

The longer you talk to the fake news, the longer you don't go to companies like True Social and Rumble,

you're just feeding the beast.

So when I was doing that podcast, Viker, I talked to Dan Bongino.

And he said, at the time, he's like, man, your podcast is crazy.

It's doing really, really, really, really well.

And he says, you've got to do video and i said okay you know i said uh you know and he told me about youtube and i said all right you know i didn't know any better and so i started doing a video simulcast on um youtube and and victor i didn't know i thought okay 9 000 followers on youtube i thought oh great 9 000 it sounds pretty good i didn't know any better right but then what i noticed is every week My views, even though I was sending this out via email to my followers all over the country and around around the globe, my views on YouTube, massive site, were actually going down, Victor, while my audio listens were going up.

And I'm not a podcast guy or a media guy, but I told kind of my team, I said, something's seriously wrong here.

Like this is impossible, right?

I like, look, I know that I, you know, maybe I'm not the best personality, media personality.

and maybe I suck, but I can't suck that back, right?

To where, I mean, if there could have been negative views, it got to the point, Victor, you know, my family.

I've got a huge family around here.

My family would at least click the play button on YouTube, right?

So that at least I would get a, you know, a play, right?

But I was, I was getting down into the low hundreds of views.

So I went and I said, look, let's just find a damn video player anywhere, anywhere.

Let's just check them all out.

So

we found this company, Rumbled.

It was a small video player company in Canada.

And it was funny.

I called up the, we got the account, we checked it out.

I called up the CEO of Rumble.

And at first, it was kind of funny because he thought he was under investigation by the House Intelligence Committee.

Wow.

And

then he later tells the story.

Then he thought, oh my God, what does this guy know?

It sounds like, why is this guy even on the intelligence committee?

Because I asked a very basic question to him, which was,

hey, Chris, I just want to know if I put my video to Rumble

and then somebody go and I send out that link,

one, will the link work?

And two, will the, you know, if it, if the link doesn't work, will it,

you know, will you confirm that if I go in and search Devin Nunes podcast, will it actually come up?

And at that point, Chris says, what, you know, he's thinking, and he later tells the story, it's pretty funny.

He thought, he immediately went from thinking he's under investigation to, wow, this sounds like, does this guy not know how technology works?

And I said, no, Chris, I said, go to, you know, go Google my name.

Go to YouTube right now and try to find my podcast.

And that was a like a holy crap moment for him because he quickly said, it's not here.

And he thought that he's like, are you sure you're posting your podcast to YouTube?

I said, yeah.

And I sent him the links, which he was able to see, but you couldn't find it on YouTube.

So

that was a shocker and an eye-opener for me

and for him.

And look, long story short, I went from,

and so remember, I had been on YouTube, you know, I had been posting there for, you know, several months.

And in three weeks, Victor, three podcasts later, I had, remember I told you I was 9,000 followers on YouTube, 35,000 followers on Rumble, a site that no one had ever heard of.

And I had 35,000 followers.

So much so that then the people at Rumble thought that, man, I must be doing some like covert operation using like the NSA to get all these followers, right?

He thought they were bots or fake people.

And they did a whole assessment.

But the thing was, Victor, it started to skyrocket from there.

And in four months,

I had nearly 400,000 followers, and the rest is history.

Now I'm like at a million followers between my two accounts on Rumble.

And as you know, that's impossible.

YouTube has a billion, billions of users around the globe.

How can

a fairly well-known political person from California, the largest state in the union with a national following, how can he throw up a video and

this only be

seen by a few hundred people?

So that's kind of how I got into this.

But you've had all that experience of what they're like and what they're capable of and what their agenda is.

And then you have a force multiplier effect of Donald Trump.

And they have an irrational,

I mean, they were angry at you for exposing

everything from the stupid

ping

fable in Trump Tower to the dossier to the whole collusion stuff.

They despise the very sight of Donald Trump.

So when you think of your experience and you think of what they're going to do to Trump affiliation, how do you avoid the fate of Parliament?

That's what I'm trying to see.

I mean, the odds are so huge and yet you're still growing.

And

I don't think our audience needs to know how many followers you have because that's a business secret.

But you obviously didn't get strangled in the crib.

So how do you, are you just going to grow organically like you said your podcast did once you got in Rumble and you're going to be on a trajectory they can't destroy or what's the strategy?

Well, look it's it's real simple and this is why when President Trump called me to ask me to come and run the company,

it's why I already knew this was going to be a success because I had watched it with myself and Rumble, myself on parlor with virtually no other major players at all on either of those platforms.

And I watched it skyrocket.

So I knew there was no question people will flock to just come to have free speech and not be censored.

So the bottom line here is that we have built this block by block and we're not relying on any of these tech tyrant companies none of them zero so we're uncancelable so that's why it's driving them absolutely nuts there's no way that they can stop us because we are writing we're actually partnering with rumble rumble has built out a cloud we're using their so we have data farms with them server farms and you know they no matter how hard they try they can't cancel us the best they can do is write numerous fake stories about us and attack us and smear us.

But, you know, ultimately,

every day we grow and we continue to grow.

And, you know, and look,

we're only on Apple right now and a web browser, so you can get us through any device.

We're not even approved yet on the Google Play Store.

And we are,

like I said, nobody will write this, but...

We've got to be the fastest growing social media company in history.

Nobody could rival us for the first few months that we're

going to take a break right now and we'll be right back.

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Devin, before I go over, I want to ask some questions about your congressional career.

But if I Google, as I did about an hour ago, all of these attack stories that it's failing, there's a waiting list.

A lot of them are dated.

I mean, they're from April.

And I've noticed one thing, I don't know if you've noticed it, but I shouldn't say that.

You obviously have, that

the sheer number of negative stories is is declining now and they're kind of it's harder to find them than it was six weeks ago which tells me that as you say you're getting successful but where do you think true social will be let's say at christmas time i don't need to know the the exact number but what what will what will be its presence on social media well look the the big thing we're waiting for right now is to be on the google play store

um that That then rounds out the

platform because then you can get a Google

app for your Android phone versus having to go through the web browser.

And that's, and we look, we already have a cement hold.

And

I like to kind of say to use

kind of military terms, but you know, we're trying to establish a beachhead in this world, which we have established that cannot be destroyed.

And the last part of building that beachhead

is to be on Android so people can get the app on Android.

So the app's built, it's waiting for approval.

Then the next step,

the next step is to

open up in other countries.

And this week, we are opening in the United Kingdom.

And obviously a very interesting time in the United Kingdom.

They've had a lot of censorship issues there also.

And that'll be our first,

this is our first foray into

a foreign country.

And then we'll continue to expand from there.

And like I started out with, we're looking at the best of Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, which is where the users are.

A lot of people have been fixated on Elon Musk and Twitter.

And what the fake news has basically refused to report is President Trump and I were both very clear.

Like, look, our mission is to open the internet back up.

We hope Elon buys it.

We also said from the beginning, I said it was a house of cards

and

didn't know how it was going to work.

But if Elon Musk could, you know, he can't, he couldn't make Twitter any worse.

And if he could buy Facebook and TikTok, that'd be great too.

And of course, President Trump said the same thing that he supported Elon Musk buying it.

But then, of course, as Elon Musk started to do his due diligence through the process, he realized what we already knew and what I knew from you know just my prior life dealing with social media companies there just aren't any normal people are not on Twitter.

It's a place for celebrities and sports figures and corporations and political hacks and left-wing journalists.

And then when you put on top of that, that they censor anybody that's on the right, it just drove all those people out of there.

So, you know, we are trying to take the

best.

uh of all of these platforms put it into one and make it very simple very intuitive and i and look we have that right now there is probably not an easier platform for someone to use than ours because we do a very few things, but we do them very, very well.

And we're building out the rest of those features.

So that is essentially, I know it's a long way to get to

your question,

but we are, our kind of

ability to establish that beachhead.

and be a place that doesn't censor politically, be family friendly, and not be cancelable,

you know, it gives us a pretty good spot to be.

And that's why we've, that's, that's been the key to our success.

That's why we have so many users already to date.

And, you know, I can, this is not a, this is not a trade secret because it's out there publicly, but, you know, Donald Trump is, you know, 3.6 million followers already in just a matter of a few months.

And you survived sort of the

beachhead attack that killed Parler, the depriving of access to apps.

And that was yeah.

And

look, what, what, um, remember with what, you know, Parler's mistake was that, and look, and I love them and I worked with them and I feel horrible about what happened to them.

But their mistake was, is they went out and heavily relied on dozens of these big tech companies to build that company.

And we've essentially, we learned from that and we've done the opposite.

So we're building slow, we build block by block, but we can't be, we can't be shut down.

So the best that they could do, and the irony of this is, is that we're in a propaganda war in this country and around the globe where the left is controlling not just the media, the schools, all the stuff you talk about on

your show.

But I think most importantly, and this is lost on people,

is the filter, the funnel of how all that information flows to the human being.

is being done through social media.

And that's why I have said from the beginning, this is our biggest challenge.

You cannot win any war, much less a propaganda war, if you can't even communicate with each other.

And so that's going to be, you know, like I said, that's going to be our, you know, our strong suit here.

And that's why we're going to continue to grow because these companies, they can't help themselves.

They're so woke, they've gone absolutely bat, you know what, crazy

stuff that they're promoting, the censorship that they're willing to do to their own, you know, to their own detriment i mean twitter is the best example of that where they've it's been overrun with spam and bot accounts that you know they may never admit this but they promoted that i mean there were firms out there victor and i i bet they don't talk about it now but you know just a few years ago you could go hire firms these kind of dark money firms that could go out there and get you followers and likes and they post on your account and these big corporations would hire those people.

And what happened was is that they they allowed the democrats and the left in this country to do exactly the same thing while they shadow banned everybody else and look we can go into that but that was all started donald trump became president of the united states

because he out foxed them on social media he used facebook and twitter and instagram to get elected in 2016.

And Hillary Clinton, all these hotshots didn't even know it was coming.

and he was able to do it because at that time there was very little censorship on those platforms and

there was not he even created he even created a kind of uh new twitter i i don't do twitter but he had a kind of a lingo or a rhythm that no one had done before he would say things like oh uh mitt romney once again flailing and then he would put a period and then he just one word sad or pathetic at the end you remember that and oh yeah.

And that everybody was bizarre.

And then that started to be copied that method of tweeting.

Yeah.

And look at just to finish up that point, and this is well documented, Obama in late 2016, after the election in Zuckerberg, they both had conversations.

where they started about that that Donald Trump won because of fake news.

They developed the term fake news, not Donald Trump.

And, you know, funny enough, he turned it on them and basically labeled them fake news.

Uh, but that's when the censorship started, and it got worse and worse and worse.

And you can fast forward to 2020,

and it ends with

the Hunter Biden laptop from hell being buried by social media and all the media, but for sure, social media.

And that was the New York Post who broke that story, by the way.

It ended with Zuckerberg spending nearly $500 million

in the election

in basically only toss-up states.

And it ended finally with Parler being destroyed and Donald Trump and millions of other Americans being kicked off of all platforms.

It is so sinister that we're only at the beginning of this, but history is going to look, this is a very dark chapter in American history that I see starting in 2015 and 16 when Obama and Clinton engaged the FBI and and the Department of Justice to spy on the Trump campaign, smear the whole Republican Party with this rush of nonsense, and it ultimately led to fake impeachments, the Moeller investigation, and kicking people off of social media.

We're in the middle of

this dark chapter of American history, but we're, as you know, because you talk about it a lot, this is a dark place that we are at right now.

No, it is.

And if we're going to take a break right now, but if our listeners really want to

get a nice synopsis of what Devin Nuna's just outlined, the best way to do it is hear it right out of the horse's mouth from a leftist, Molly Bell.

She wrote a Time magazine gushing, arrogant, celebratory argument of what we did in the 2020 election.

Go read it.

It's a Time essay.

And in it, she uses the word conspiracy, as in good conspiracy.

And she outlines the dark money that was used to influence precincts and to absorb the work of registrars.

She brags that she even says that this is what was really striking is that they even modulated, as you remember, Devin, she brags, they modulated the demonstrations so that the demonstrations kind of cooled as the election wore on.

And it's one of the most disturbing articles I've ever read.

But we're going to take a break right now and we'll be back and we're going to shift focus.

We might have a couple of questions and then we'll shift focus to finish our interview with more about the Russian collusion hoax and Devin's career as the House Intelligence Committee.

And we'll be right back.

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We're back with Devin Nunes, and we've been talking about the new social company that he's the CEO of, the Trump-affiliated Truth Social.

Devin, I want to make a point, and maybe you could elaborate it.

Before this all started, what I remember is you came up to the Hoover Institution, you spoke to the military history and contemporary conflict group.

And I distinctly remember, and that group that I chaired has a lot of ideological diversity in it.

And some of the most adamant never Trumpers were in that group.

But what I remember is you were warning that in 2012, 2014,

that Russia was a potential danger because it had a tendency to want to intervene.

But my point is that you were trying to warn people that the reset

under Hillary Clinton, continued by John Kerry, Barack Obama was a very dangerous thing to do and that people were inordinately appeasing Russia and empowering it.

And do you remember that period?

And what I'm trying to get at is that

when

you then said

the dossier is fake, the FBI was improperly using him as an informant, he's a foreign national, his sources are probably Clinton retreads.

There's these firewalls that we can't get to because of the DNC, the Perkins-Coey, the Fusion GPS.

When you brought all this up, all of a sudden, they created this construct that you were soft on Russia after you had been the one

trying to warn everybody that Russia was capable, if it wanted to, to do a lot of damage during election periods.

Oh, yeah, Victor.

And

I think it had it not been

for

two op-eds that

I had written in

around the 2014-15 timeframe.

And then, ironically an interview that i gave a live interview that i gave on cnn

in the spring

and remember that date spring of six 2016

had it not been for that i think they would have put the full weight of doj and fbi investigating me and republicans on the house intelligence committee But they just couldn't get around that that was out there on the record,

also through congressional letters that we in correspondence that we had that we had sent.

But look, I had no idea that this was going, you know, they started this rush of nonsense in 2015 and 16, you know, going after Trump, you know, which ultimately became the Republican Party.

So they were going full-blown

smearing behind the scenes at the Department of Justice, the Trump campaign, at the same time, by the way, that I came out publicly on CNN and said the biggest intelligence failure since 9-11, 2001 is our inability to understand Putin's plans and intentions.

And at that time, you know, you look back and it was a big statement that I made, and it quickly got picked up a little bit by the fake news groups, and then immediately like just smoldered.

Now, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee just came out and said it's the largest intelligence failure since 9-11.

And the media like just ignored it.

Um, but thank god, I had done that, you know, I had done that interview because little did we know that Obama and his DOJ and the Clinton campaign were in full motion, uh, framing uh the Trump campaign and the Republican Party to smear them with what they were guilty of.

They were guilty of everything that you see now.

We're paying the price because of the stupid reset that that started with hillary clinton the benghazi fiasco

uh that you know that was and you know then the syria fiasco you know and look victor for all the the billions of dollars this is not rocket science how could we not know that vladimir putin one of our biggest adversaries where you know our military is positioned to defend against this nuclear power.

How do we not know that

they were going to go into Syria, Libya, and then ultimately Crimea?

Like, no, I wasn't saying anything that was rocket science here, but by that time, by 2016, like, I'm like, holy crap, am I the only one out here that's seen this?

And I felt an obligation to go out.

I didn't like to smear the, you know, or call out the military and intelligence, but I had no choice in 16 because it had gotten completely out of control.

Like, if I didn't say something, who was?

So it's the classic,

it's the classic

of this Marxism where they accuse you of what they actually were doing.

And I think now that it's all been unraveled, what you see is Bidens were getting money, Clinton Foundation was getting money,

and they were looking for anything and everything.

They probably assumed that

one of those adversaries had the Clinton emails.

And they said, wow, what an easier way that we have to do.

And just in case these Clinton emails come out, which by the way,

they never came out.

The emails that came out were basically nothing, but I think they were afraid of that.

And they got the FBI and the DOJ to start this whole investigation based on that, you know, Trump was coordinating with Putin to

get these, you know, and that was to cover up.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

Exactly what they were afraid of.

And that's what it was all about.

I think everybody realized that Vladimir Putin is aggressive when world oil prices are high and he has cash and he senses appeasement on the part of the United States.

That's why when the Bush administration had George W.

Bush in 2008, oil was high.

We were in internal disunion and Bush's ratings were where Biden's were.

He went into Ossatia-Georgia, and then he went into Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014.

Oil prices were high.

Obama, remember the Seoul,

South Korea, 2011?

If Vladimir will just give me some space, it's my last election, then I'll be flexible on missile defense.

And they kept their bargain.

People forget about that.

Obama dismantled missile defense and Putin kept his bargain.

He behaved until after Obama was securely re-elected and then he invaded.

But it's one of the weirdest things in the world.

I know the frustration that everybody has, especially you.

When you looked at Trump, that was the one period between 2000, if you look at 2008 and 2014 and now 2020.

So three out of four administrations he invades and he doesn't during Trump.

And then you think, well, Trump was accused of collusion, but then you look at the record and you think, wow, he killed those 200 mercenaries in Syria.

Wow.

He got out of that asymmetrical medium-range missile deal.

Wow.

He's upped the sanctions on the oligarchs.

Wow.

He poured oil onto the world market and helped crash the price.

Wow.

He

sold javelin offensive missiles to Ukraine that the Obama administration wouldn't do and Biden wouldn't do at the beginning of his administration.

And then you think, well,

he was trying to reset the reset where John Kerry had invited for the first time in, I guess, 45 years, Obama,

Secretary of State, had invited the Russians into the Middle East to help them, quote unquote, find WMD.

So it was frustrating, and you're absolutely right.

They appeased Putin.

They appeased Putin.

They seemed weak and then they accused everybody else of what they were doing and called it collusion.

And I don't know how this is all going to end, Devin, but I don't know what Durham is going to do.

But I would like your opinion.

When it's all said and done,

and you look at all the damage and wreckage of lives, Papadopoulos, Carter Page,

all of the FBI, Comey's 245 times I Can't Remember under oath, Klein Smith forging a document, James Baker's activity, Lisa Page,

the stroke text, the FBI losing phone records, John Brennan and James Clapper both having lied under oath to the Senate and then going to work as analysts where they were kind of winking and nodding about their security clearance knowledge.

Where do you think it all ends?

What do you think people are going to say or what can we do to make sure it never happens again?

Break up the FBI, put it in Kansas City or something?

Well, going through, going back to, you know, I think you had an important point, we're not nearly through any of this yet.

As much as people just want things to go back to normal, we want to see America, you know, we want to see,

you know, hey, people have their political differences, but, you know, we don't need to be living where there's essentially two Americas, where you've got essentially the city-states, you know, New York, LA, San Francisco, you name it, Chicago, versus everywhere else.

And in the process of that, you have the government, which is now the federal government, and these governments within these blue states are weaponized.

They've weaponized the Department of Justice.

They've weaponized the intelligence agencies.

Now,

you talk about it all the time, what they're doing with the military.

It's a disaster.

It's nothing short of a disaster.

And look, I want the light at the end of the tunnel, but right now, I'm telling you, it takes vigilance and execution of

good people doing the right thing for the right reasons.

So, you know, and that's what, you know, that's what, you know, we started out talking about True Social.

Donald Trump had no choice but to create his own company.

I felt it was my obligation to leave Congress to run this company because we have to at least get communications with each other.

And so where do we stand right now with this?

You've got essentially slightly less than half the population.

You could, you know, look at a different polling, you can't believe them all, but less than, slightly less than half the population knows what the DOJ and the dirty cops of the FBI were up to.

They know Clinton, Obama, Biden were all involved in smearing and framing Donald Trump.

Now, that's a good thing, but on the other side, you still have over half the population.

at least the last point I saw that thought, well, Trump and Republicans must have something to do with Russia, right?

So you've got, you know, obviously Durham, I don't think Durham, my take on Durham is that he's done a very good job and can use a very thorough job.

He's well aware of the political atmospherics.

He has to be.

My guess is he didn't want to

bring the Sussman case to trial.

My guess is that he believed, and rightfully so, that any normal human being in that position, when they are guilty as hell, would essentially cooperate and either plead guilty or become a cooperating witness.

But

I think Durham must have, and maybe someday we'll learn about this, but

Sussman obviously was afraid of maybe disappearing himself because

he essentially they put all their money on a DC jury to acquit him.

And

this is more of the dark chapter.

Like, what Republican is going to bring any case and have a chance at a fair jury trial in our nation's capital?

If it's political at all, you're going to lose.

Like, you know, whether it's a civil case or a criminal case, you're going to lose.

And that's a problem, right?

And look, and you can go to, and it leads all of this that's happened.

Where are we now?

This just happened recently.

You have assassination attempts on Supreme Court justices.

You have

Supreme Court justices being targeted, bounties put on their head to identify them if they're eating at a restaurant in Washington, D.C.

And the Department of Transportation Secretary is saying that's okay, Pete Buttigieg.

Yeah, so all of that is happening.

This is a, so we are nowhere near the end.

We have this additional Durham prosecution coming up in Northern Virginia

against Dan Chenko, who is, who is their token Russian, who happens to be connected to the left-wing Brookings Institute, who happens to be connected to Fiona Hill.

Remember the star witness

State Department that led to the phony Ukraine impeachment stuff that I had to deal with.

All of these people are interconnected and interrelated, including the judges.

And so,

look,

I think that,

sadly said,

I think it gets worse before it gets better

because judges,

that judiciary branch of government,

the legislative branch is completely destroyed.

Pelosi is running

like nothing I've ever seen.

I was there for 20 years, never seen anything like this,

creating show trials, special fake committees

that no one, the founding fathers, never would have thought this would have been possible for

show trials like this to be

happening in the House of Representatives.

You've got the

Jan 6 rioters are being treated completely differently than all the all the antifa riots that went on all over the country in 2020 including an attack on the white house while donald trump was president and was there may 31st they tried to they had to put remember they had to put trump in a bunker the secret service was scared they would break through Yeah, I mean, they just about did break through.

Yeah, and Lynn Chan

hasn't talked about that at all.

Yeah, and then you had the RNC acceptance speech that because of COVID was given

on the grounds of the White House, I was there, Victor.

I had trouble like many people did leaving.

You know, if it wouldn't have been for a retired NYPD police officer who was armed, that myself and a few others that had

left the grounds, you know, we were about ready to be attacked.

If he wouldn't have stepped in, he was there providing security for one of the media companies.

That was when Rand Paul and his wife were surrounded, wasn't it?

Yeah, I mean, there's just so many people.

So, I mean, that happened.

I mean, and, you know, I don't know what would happen if

that police officer, retired police officer wouldn't have been there.

And I'm talking about just in my case.

So

the last thing standing right now, the executive branch, obviously with the woke military, the corrupt DOJ, all of that stuff.

So the executive branch is screwed.

The legislative branch is screwed.

And the judiciary branch is screwed right now.

And so you would hope that these judges would step up, but I'm just not seeing it.

I'm seeing it that the judges are making decisions.

If you're a left-wing, if you're appointed by Obama or now, well, Biden, Obama, or Clinton, you're going to do the politically right thing.

And I don't, you know, we could get an example after example.

If you're a Republican judge, if you fall into the never Trump and you watch the fake news and you haven't figured out yet that the Washington Post, the New York Times, all these are tools of

either billionaires or corporations that are part of the propaganda machine.

If you're listening to that fake news and you're a judge,

just like my former colleagues, my own Republicans, you're a fool and you're destroying the country to listen to what's, because it's all propaganda and you only have to do the best case study.

And I've been through a couple of them now, right?

Whether it's Russia, the Russia hoax, whether it's the Ukraine impeachment hoax, or whether it's being the CEO of True Social and watching, if somebody goes through and looks, if you just, like we were talking about earlier, if you just do a a Google search and go back and look at the stories, I mean, it's like you're living on a different planet.

You would not know that

we have incredible engagement, that people that have left Twitter, left Instagram are doing far better in engagement on our little platform, just as it's in its infancy.

You wouldn't know that.

And so

the judiciary is kind of that last

wall of defense.

They are hopelessly in bad shape.

You know, the fact that you can't even get the Department of Justice to go out and prosecute these guys and investigate these guys that are left-wing groups that are putting up bounties to out a Supreme Court justice that's sitting in a restaurant.

And Victor, as somebody who, you know, the last five years, you know, before I left Washington, D.C., even the times I've been back since I left Congress, Victor, I was down to, and I won't even say where I would go.

I was down to only three restaurants that I could go to out of fear of my own security and my and people that I was with security.

So that's now happening to Supreme Court justices there.

You know, it was all fine, you know, all fun and games.

Oh, well, that's Devin Nunes.

He's a Trump guy.

He's a Russian agent, you know, all the bullshit that they would say.

It was all fine and dandy then.

Well, now all of a sudden, because that was accepted, I mean, Victor, you know, how about the people that were outside of my house that targeted my wife and my children?

So

all that happened.

I'll just, you know, just to kind of close this up,

you know, the only

short-term hope right now is that there is a red wave in november and republicans can get back control and they have to immediately set up some type of commission or special committee that is going to issue subpoenas almost day one

uh to to go after all of these corrupt you know issues that we've just run the gamut on here in on your show between you know january 6th the russia hoax uh all of that has to be looked at in turn, and these people have to be investigated,

including Moeller, who should be investigated and his whole team should be investigated, one of the biggest frauds in American history.

Nobody's talking about that.

And also this January 6th phony stuff where Pelosi and others, including probably our own federal government,

are culpable for this.

So the Republicans in the House at least are going to have to quickly move like they've never moved before and put in a plan and execute on the plan and start issuing subpoenas immediately to hold the DOJ and other executive branch and either former or current sitting legislative leaders and maybe perhaps the judicial branch to hold them accountable for letting the country go down the toilet like it's been doing the last few years.

So I think all of our listeners, we've talked about this before, whether we go the Old Testament or New Testament route, that's kind of a false dichotomy because you can do both.

But if the Republicans do take the House and they do take it with a sizable majority and maybe they take the Senate as well.

So I think being Republicans, nobody wants Kevin McCarthy to tear up the State of the Union address when Joe Biden hands it in the way Pelosi did.

And probably nobody wants a Republican.

to talk about getting rid of the filibuster when they have a majority as the Democrats are doing now.

And nobody wants to pack the court in 2024.

But what you're saying in conclusion, Devin, is that these people on the hard left, if you just say, well, that's those are bygones, let's move on, the Romney-McCain sort of generic Republican approach, there's no deterrence, and they will do it the minute they get back in power.

And that we need multi-investigations of everything, maybe from the Biden family, what was the FBI doing with the laptop, the diary, the way they went after journaling.

All of this needs to be investigated in a very, in a muscular way we've never seen Republicans act before, except in a few cases in your committee and others.

And that's what you're saying, that if they take over, you're hoping that they send a lesson that you can't do this in America.

Is that right?

Yeah,

I think that's exactly.

Right.

And there's, and remember, our investigation, which is

one of the more successful congressional investigations in history, even though hardly anybody's been convicted so far.

But remember how small we were, right?

And so they have to do investigations that were never, that nobody has really ever

contemplated, you know, at least in modern history.

I mean, maybe you could go back to the church commission.

uh perhaps you know that created the the intelligence uh committees in the congress uh maybe the 9-11 Commission, but I think this has to be much bigger than that because

it's the House that's probably going to be the only one to do it.

And it would have to be put together at such a scale that most people haven't thought about before.

And I know that the leaders in Congress that I know are at least, they understand what has to be done, but I think they have to first, having been there, they have to first win these elections, right?

So to,

you have to deliver on winning in November, and then you're going to have to quickly turn and you're going to have to create some type of commission that's never been created before that's going to go after these,

it's going to go basically target at the end of the day, it pretty much all starts and stops with the Department of Justice.

I mean, they're the one.

that ultimately, you know, I mean, they control the FBI.

They're the ones that have used, you know, that are willing to use the other intelligence agencies.

They're the ones that decided to cooperate with the Clinton campaign, Obama, the Jan 6,

the corrupt guy, the corrupt

stuff going on in Washington right now.

They're the ones who have decided not to go and prosecute these people that are camping outside of justices' homes.

They're the ones who

haven't been able to find the leaker that leaked the decision early on that overturned Roe v.

Wade.

So there's so much that has to be looked at.

It's going to have to be on a scale they never thought of.

And plus, you know, it's going to, they're going to have to hold, you know, I agree with you, Victor.

I think, you know, tearing up state of the union and that sort of stuff is going to be, you know, not, that's not going to work, but there's clearly several, because Pelosi made it the norm, right?

And the Democrats, there's going to have to be sadly, and I say this sadly, but multiple impeachments of

the final question.

So let me finish our interview with just two questions

about the re-establishment of deterrence.

The first question is, should Kevin McCarthy say with great reluctance,

I don't want to do this, but Speaker Pelosi established a precedent.

So for one year, I'm going to prohibit certain extreme members that I feel

are not interested in governance.

I'm not going to let them serve on committees in the fashion that they did to Republican when they were.

Well, I think

without question, you know, look, I was there when some of our members were kicked off of committees.

I was in Congress still.

You know, couldn't believe that we had gone down that far in this country and in our legislative branch of government.

And it's got to be far more than that.

I mean, it has to be, as long as Republicans have control.

And I'm not going to name names because I'll leave that.

Obviously, I have my opinions of who it should be.

But look, I'm out of there and I'll leave it up to my former colleagues.

But there are probably dozens of Democrats that shouldn't serve on any committees.

And not because that's not the way America should be, but it's what they created.

And until, and look, you know this from being in California, Victor, and we didn't even cover that on the show today, but the only thing that moves leftists is extreme pain.

And you see that in California, right?

We're about, and the best example is the one that's right in front of us now.

We're about ready to run out of power, out of energy.

They've been shutting down the last two nuclear power plants.

One got shut down now.

The last two reactors are sitting over on the central coast nearby us.

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you know, Republicans, I basically led the way saying, what the hell, you guys are going to run us out of power and stating the obvious here.

You shut down these reactors here over the course of the next couple of years, we're going to be out of power.

Like the lights are going to go out.

And I don't think it wasn't until the essentially woke corporates that control the monopolies here in California, energy companies, went to Newsom and the Democrats and said,

yeah, we're gonna run out of power if we go through with this.

And now all of a sudden you've seen Newsome, oh,

we're gonna keep these reactors open.

So it's only at that pain level, sadly, that trained Marxists will change behavior.

So you can call it a deterrent.

That's probably

a good word,

but McCarthy and the Republicans are going to have to say, look,

sorry,

you guys are out.

And

that's going to include, you mentioned impeachment, that would include article, even though there would not be a conviction because it's unlikely the Republicans would capture 60 seats in the Senate, but that would include, say, articles of impeachment that Joe Biden failed to

his oath of office to enforce immigration laws, or that Mallorca should be impeached for failing to endorse statues.

He deliberately undermined them or some of the people in the DOJ's misuse of the FBI for political purposes.

Would that also come up, you think?

Well, they've made the norm.

The norm now has been made because of their behavior.

The norm now in this country is that we impeach presidents.

I mean, that's just the norm, right?

Because, and I mean, it was completely false.

What they did on Ukraine, you take the Ukraine impeachment, it was a furtherance of the Russia hoax, right?

They attempted to do it with MOA.

And then they quickly pivoted and they made up a whole story on Ukraine, which is equally as bad as the Russia hoax.

They made it up on Ukraine.

And this is another problem.

I mean,

the FBI, DOJ, they knew about all this.

They knew about Biden's involvement in Ukraine and the Clinton Foundation's involvement in Ukraine.

They had to have known about it.

And so, you know, and they were able to hide it, you know, even when Trump had people running, you know, these agencies you know either they you know they either they didn't know it or or they or they weren't willing to do anything about it who who the hell knows but that's that's how bad this is this has become and so impeachments are the norm kicking members off committees are the norm but that's just the deterrent part but to in order to be on offense victor it's going to take an unprecedented creation of some commission, some committee with the full power of the legislative branch branch to go in and run a massive investigation like that's never been seen in history.

And that's only going to provide a little bit of offense because you're still going to have all the bad players at DOJ, FBI, the Biden administration, they're all still going to be there.

And as you well know,

the biggest problem we had and continue to have is

we made 14 criminal indictments involving dozens of dozens of people.

And so far, but we didn't have guns or

ability to go out and arrest someone.

All we could do is turn it over to DOJ.

And now Durham is what, one for two, right?

He had one person plead guilty and then he lost one in court.

So it's, we got a long way to go.

We do.

And with that, we've covered a lot of ground from Truth Social to the midterm elections to the perilous state of democracy and the threats from the left.

And our guest today has been former representative and head of the House Intelligence Committee, Devin Unez, and currently CEO of Truth Social.

And Devin, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast today.

Well, thank you so much.

And Victor, as you know, I'm a big fan of the podcast and the work that you're doing is critically, critically important in terms of ability to communicate some sensible policies about not only the history, modern history and modern warfare, but dating back with your ability to go back to Roman and Greek history is just incredible.

So it's an honor for me to be on the show.

Well, thank you very much, and we'll see you all very shortly.

Thank you for listening.

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