436: Garry Ridge—Any Dumbass Can Do It

Hey guys, it's Mike Rowe.

This is the way I heard it.

Episode number.

Oh, right.

We don't do that anymore today.

Yeah, you know, we could, but 400-something at least.

It's like, yeah, whatever.

It's an yeah, it's an episode.

All right.

With a number.

Good.

Thank you, Chuck.

Undisclosed at this moment.

I'll tell you what matters is the name.

The name of the episode is fantastic.

It's called Any Dumbass Can Do It.

And it could apply to podcasting.

It could apply to hosting.

It could apply to virtually everything.

But in this case, it applies to running a company.

Right.

Gary Ridge is the author of a terrific book of the same title.

He's very Australian, as he will prove shortly.

And we've just had a great conversation about his extraordinary impact and run over at a little company called WD40.

Yeah.

I mean, the company itself, you could talk for hours about.

They've got just a couple of products.

They totally dominate the market, but the

employee satisfaction and engagement levels.

Very high.

Very high.

Suspiciously high.

Yes.

Like it's hard to believe what these guys have done to build a culture in like 16 different countries, 600, 700 employees.

They are

a family.

And it's just, I just wish I could do that here with you and Mary and Jade.

And

I just wish I were a better leader chip.

It would be great if you were, Mike.

But

I think it's fair to say, too, that this was a very slick conversation.

Ooh.

Really?

Do you think?

You're just trying to do a lubricant joke around WDC?

Well, I was trying to do a lubricant joke.

See, this is why we have no cohesion here at Microworks.

People still think they can handle the jokes when they can't, and I have no choice but to shout them down.

Oh, man.

I hesitate to say this was written for other CEOs because I think the book has a lot of stuff in it that can apply to just about anyone.

But I'll tell you what's for sure.

It's fun to talk to an Australian.

Right?

I love listening to an Australian talk.

And it's not just the accent.

Now there's an enthusiasm among the Aussies.

There's a just like Hemingway used to say, you know, live all the way up.

They're well-traveled.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're passionate.

Yeah.

You know, and they have a lot to say.

But this guy, beyond that, has been there and done it.

His book will be out by the time you listen to this.

You should check it out.

Any dumbass can do it.

It's funny.

He's funny.

A couple of laughs.

And dare I say, Chuck,

some pearls of wisdom for those who pay attention.

Yes, yes, indeed.

And when it comes to paying attention, trust me, any dumbass can do it.

Hopefully, you'll help me prove that right after this.

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Okay, I'm rolling.

You have the fourth pair.

You're welcome.

Yep, I see.

You got it.

There you go.

Thank you.

That's it.

Just so you know, it's real.

Dairy Ridge suit of armor if it comes up and it will

It's amazing.

Yeah, I mean that is

That the instant gratification of Google is I know intoxicating now.

Did you spell armor with you or not?

What am I?

English?

Just kidding.

British.

All it.

I mean they do it that way in Australia as well, don't they?

Arma.

I used to always get in trouble spelling armor all.

Uh.

And under armor.

And under armour.

And tire.

Why did you guys wage war on the letter R?

I have no idea.

How did that happen?

I don't know.

Well, you know, we're convicts.

We were sent there by the best judges in England, you know.

This is Gary Ridge, by the way, former CEO of WD40 and my guest for as long as he'll stay here.

And we're just talking, but clearly you're Australian.

I am.

And the Australians have a moratorium on R.

And yet your name, Gary.

Has two R's.

Has two R's.

You're the only Gary I know with two R's.

Please explain.

I think I was named after a pub.

There was a pub in Australia called the Gary Owen, and my name is Gary Owen Ridge.

And my dad was born in 1907.

My mum was born in 1914.

So mum lived till she was 99 years and nine months old.

But one day I was driving through a suburb of Sydney, not far from where I lived, and I see a pub called the Gary Owen.

And I went to my dad and I said, Did you drink beer there, Dad?

And he said, I might have had a schooner there occasionally.

And I said, Was I named after that pub?

And he denied it, Mike, but who knows?

Isn't Gary Owen

a famous melody, a song?

Not that I'm aware of.

Wasn't Chuck,

I hate to ask you so early on to do actual work,

but I think Gary Owen is associated with the 7th Cavalry, and I think specifically with Custer's last stand.

I don't know why I think that, but it would be great to know if I'm simply hallucinating.

Let me see.

Where exactly is home in Australia?

Sydney.

I grew up in Sydney, Australia,

a little suburb called Five Dock, which was about

seven or eight miles from the center of Sydney.

Went to Dr Moines Boys High School, which was a great lot of fun.

I love Sydney.

I've been there twice.

Reminds me of San Francisco, where I lived for a while.

I think they're sister cities, in fact.

They are.

We were talking earlier.

You know, I live in San Diego now.

San Diego is a lot like Perth, which is on the western side of Australia because it has the desert on the east.

But Sydney...

is a little like San Francisco.

It's a little like San Diego.

It's the sweetest city in the South Seas, Mike.

It's so funny the way we...

Oh, Chuck, was I right?

South Calvary?

It's a 7th Cavalry Regiment of the United States Army, which adopted the Irish tune, Gary Owen, as its official marching song.

Play it.

Play it.

Find a video and play that thing.

Play it.

I want to hear it.

It's like a...

Now it's haunting me, like a splinter in my mind.

My gosh, something you learn every day.

I'm a song now.

Well, I mean, is this.

You're clearly a man who has traveled and seen some things, done some things.

Does it all

like, is your mind a cluttered desktop or a neatly ordered filing cabinet?

Oh, I'm a mess.

I love the word

discombobulated, and I think my mind is discombobulated.

But then, as I write in the book, there's an airport that has a recombobulation zone.

So I think I'm discombobulated and recombobulated.

You mentioned a book.

It's called Any Dumbass Can Do It.

You apparently have written it.

Your name is on the front of it.

I've read the synopsis that your publisher sent.

So I'm not going to pretend, because a lot of guys will do that.

They'll read it and then they'll act that I will read it, but I haven't yet.

And

I mean, I just, I don't think I've seen the one.

Any dumbass can read it.

But I don't think I, I'm just trying to think of all the books I've seen with dumbass in the title.

Now, is this just self-deprecating or is it revelatory?

Do you mean that?

Yeah, I do mean it, Mike.

I think, you know, if I want to be serious for a moment,

which

only for a moment.

I mean, if it goes on too long, he'll cue the music again and then it's the

Irish pub.

That's it.

Sure.

I truly believe that business has a responsibility and an opportunity to make a positive difference in the world.

And I know you believe that too,

the way you support trades and young people and whatever.

And, you know, in my 25 years that I was given the opportunity, and I'm so grateful for that opportunity to lead a company, I really learned that it's really about the people.

And if we can, Aristotle said, pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.

And if we can put pleasure in a job, we're going to bring perfection to the work.

And I think it's the job of businesses these days to build cultures where people go home happy.

Because happy people create happy families, happy families create happy communities, happy communities create a happy world, and we need a happy world.

And if you look at some of the latest research, you know, Gallup came out in January, 31% of people who go to work every day in the US are engaged, which means 69% are disengaged.

And the biggest proportion of people who are disengaged are under 35, the young people.

And leaders are creating these toxic cultures that people hate going to work.

You know, I created someone called Alec the Soul Sucking CEO.

He's in there.

So I wrote the book because

after having that opportunity at WD-40, I thought I can pay it forward now by sharing the things that we learned over time that build a great culture.

And at the company, you know, we had, and they still have, very, very high employee engagement.

98% of the people say they love to tell people they work at the company.

And we're not sexy.

It's oil in a can, right?

Well, I love the company for reasons that you and I have discussed offline, and we'll get into that as well.

But since you invoked Aristotle, I think he also said that the

the definition of a tragedy is that moment in the narrative when the protagonist comes face to face with the inescapable truth of his own self

and

you know I realize that's a bit highfalutin but I I remember it word for word because to me it it it's so it's so poetic and poignant and grand but common.

And when you just think of, you know, you just hit me with some percentages, 31 and 69, they're not big numbers in and of themselves, but you're talking about many, many millions of people.

Many millions of people.

And if you've got 69% of people walking around fundamentally disengaged with their work, then these people are about to come face to face with the inescapable tragedy of their own identity.

And that sucks.

It sucks.

I mean, and we don't have to have that environment.

I mean, you can change that.

You know, in business and in life,

I think there's three things that are really important.

The first one is, do I belong?

Do I feel like and am I treated like I belong?

Do I matter?

Am I treated like I matter?

And is what I do seen as being valuable?

And thirdly, am I allowed to make choices?

So can I make a choice?

in what I do.

And if you have an organization where people belong and they feel like they belong, where they matter and they know they matter and they're able to make choices, then you create a culture where people feel, rightly so, that they're valued.

Is there a difference between belonging and feeling like you belong?

Yes.

What?

The way you're treated.

I mean, you know,

if you think about do I feel like I belong, it's how you are treated within an organization.

How many times do people in organizations ask, Mike, how are you today?

What's on your mind?

Is there anything getting in your way?

How can I help you?

Or are they talking about, you know, why didn't you meet your sales target?

And do I really care about what's going on in your home?

I mean,

you know, that's a really interesting point.

I think sometimes we do more harm than good when we ask somebody how they're doing insincerely.

Absolutely.

And because you hear it all of the time.

And you know, when somebody says, hey, how are you?

That they don't really give a tinker's damn.

And if you're really having a bad day and you've got some heavy stuff and you say, hey, I'm glad you asked, and then you sit them down and 10 minutes later, they're just going, my God, what have I done?

So you have to,

you have to really care.

Like, you really have to give a damn if you ask somebody how they're doing.

Yeah.

And that was something that became really interestingly clear to me when I moved from Australia to here back in 1994.

I'd go through a checkout and someone would say, have a nice day.

And I'd think to myself, why do you care?

You know, do you really care if I have a nice day?

No, it was just that automatic reply.

It's time to make sounds.

Yes.

So I think authenticity, Mike, is so important in that in an organization, you have to show that you really care.

And that's where vulnerability comes into play.

That's where, you know, taking the time to really understand people.

Well, with regard to authenticity, one of the things that did stick with me as I did the cursory research to create the illusion that that I read your book was

the satisfaction rate, the engagement among your employees during lockdowns versus other big organizations was so stark, you'll remember the exact numbers, I'm sure, but you were in the mid to high 90s.

93%.

Okay.

While the average organization was like flirting with single digits, it seemed.

Yeah, well, certainly, you know, not in high past 30.

So, how the hell did you do that?

You are now an international organization, right?

You've got people suddenly working from home.

How did you navigate that?

And

I'm asking for a friend.

I have a tiny organization here, you know, and we're just trying to figure out, you know,

is it a bad trade, you know, what you lose from being together, you know, what you gain from not spending two hours in traffic every day like poor Chuck has to do.

Is it a fair trade?

Is it a good trade?

How do you navigate that?

Well, I think there's a couple of things.

We maintained a very high engagement level during the lockdown because we went in with a very high engagement level.

So, you know, you can't sprinkle fairy dust on an organization and change culture.

I have a friend of mine, his name's Charlie Malouf, he owns a chain of Ashley furniture stores out in North Carolina.

What a story, what a company that is.

You should talk to him one day.

Oh, sure.

And he says, you know, culture is not a microwavable event.

It takes a crock pot approach.

And that is so true.

So we maintained high levels because we went in with high levels.

And I'll tell you a story around that.

It was January 2021, right?

So we've been one year into this thing that we're in there is no sign yet really of a vaccination or a solution so the world is topsy-turvy you know we'd we'd get in of a morning and we'd be you know virtual and we'd be checking which country are we open actually is actually open today so I said I want to I want to be sure that we haven't been draining our cultural equity in the last year.

And let me just jump in real quick so people understand.

How many employers are we talking about and how many countries?

16 countries, probably

in our leadership group and the execution group, probably six or seven hundred people.

Okay.

It's a chunk.

Yeah.

Got it.

So

I said, let's go out and do a you know a pulse survey to see if our levels have remained where they were in March 2020 when we took the last serious pulse survey.

So we went out and did a check-in.

And the numbers came back and they were pretty much equal, which gave me some satisfaction that all that we've been doing in this past year had kept us together.

You know, we were doing fun things.

We'd have a virtual comedian come in.

Our French team would do virtual cooking classes for the whole organization.

We were doing stuff.

We'd have a virtual happy hour on a Friday afternoon, all of this stuff.

Still wasn't as good as being together, but we were there.

One number came back that really blew me away, and it was the answer to a question, I am excited about my place in the company and the future.

And it came back at 97% of our people positively said that, which was higher than it was in 2020.

And I said, this cannot be real.

You know, people, don't they realize what's going on in the world?

Go back and check it.

So we went back and checked it.

Came back, it was real.

I said, we've got to find out why.

So we went out and we asked the question, why?

And it was a very beautiful answer we got, Mike.

It said,

I feel safe.

I feel safe.

We We are living our just cause and our just cause openly stated was a group of people that come together to protect and feed each other.

And we were protecting each other and we were feeding each other.

Because day one of COVID,

we said we have three objectives.

And the number one objective is the safety and the well-being of our people.

The number two objective is to service our customers and our end users the best we can.

And number three was to preserve the underbody of our business so that when this was over, we will thrive.

But nowhere in there is any mention of the product.

No,

because the culture is not the product.

The culture is the people.

So it's all about the people.

As you may have heard me say several thousand times before, we need to close the skills gap in this country and we need to do it stat.

I hate to be an alarmist, but there are currently 7.6 million open jobs out there, most of which don't require a four-year degree.

And currently, 250,000 of those jobs exist within the maritime industrial base.

These are the folks who build and deliver three nuclear-powered submarines every year to the U.S.

Navy.

And there's a real concern now that a lack of skilled labor is going to keep us from building the subs that need to get built.

On the positive side, there's a growing realization that these jobs are freaking awesome.

I'm talking about incredibly stable, AI-proof careers, just waiting for anybody who wants to learn a skill that's in demand and start a career with some actual purpose.

Added is manufacturing, CNC, machining, metrology, welding, pipe fitting, electrical.

All of it is spelled out for you at buildsubmarines.com.

That's where all the hiring is happening, and you really need to see it to get a sense of just how much opportunity is out there.

That's buildsubmarines.com.

Come on and build a submarine.

Why don't you build a submarine?

That buildsubmarines.com.

It's almost as though, if I can reach for a metaphor here, that your product, fundamentally a lubricant,

applies to your people, to the culture.

I mean, creating the right lubrication, creating, you know, to reduce the friction, maybe.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm not.

Friction, reduce friction and increase flow.

We use that a lot.

You know, our purpose statement, you know, when I asked people, what do you think the purpose of our company is, right?

If I ask someone now,

even though I'm not there, I'm out speaking

around the world about culture.

And someone will say, W40's purpose, stop a squeak.

you know, stop moisture.

I say, well, that's what it does.

But here was our purpose statement.

We existed to create positive, lasting memories, solving problems in factories, homes and workshops around the world.

We solved problems and we created opportunities.

We're in the memories business.

Our second value at the company was we exist to create positive lasting memories.

So we could ask that question all the time.

What positive lasting memory did that behavior create?

What positive lasting memory did our new delivery system deliver to our end users?

What positive lasting memory did we create for the community, for the tradespeople that we service?

So it was always on top of mind that that's why we're in business.

So,

you know, don't get your purpose mixed up with your product.

Your purpose is a little different.

And that's why we had that strong ethos within the organization.

For whom did you write the book?

I wrote it for the leaders that are out there that can make a difference in the world if they're brave enough to do it.

And why I say brave is that building a great culture in an organization is simple, it's not easy, and time is not your friend.

When I was a young lad back in Australia in my high school science class, my science teacher gave me a petri dish, Mike, and they said, what we're going to do is we're going to grow culture in this petri dish.

And the science teacher said, what's important is the ingredients that you put in the dish and how are you going to take care of those ingredients as the owner of that petri dish to grow the best culture you can.

So, if you know the ingredients to put into the dish as a leader to build a great culture, and you're brave enough to reward and applaud the good ingredients or the good behavior, and brave enough to treat the toxins, you will build a great culture over time.

But it takes time.

Consistency is so important.

You were at WD40 for 25 years.

35 years, 25 years as CEO.

Now,

is that the kind of time you're talking about to create the kind of results that

are potentially there?

I mean, do you need that long?

Because most CEOs don't make it 25 years.

No, they don't.

They don't make it 10.

No.

No, I think that you have to start the process.

It probably took us three to five years to gain the momentum of what we're all about.

You know, when I...

The story behind how this came about, if you're interested, is that

in 1997 I became CEO.

For some reason, the board of directors of a U.S.

public company thought this

dumbass from Australia might be okay.

And I knew, with the help of those around me, how to make the brand aware and make it easy to buy for people around the world who needed it.

It just took time to do that.

Was something broken at that point, or was there merely room for improvement?

There was room for expansion.

85% of our revenue was in the US.

When I left, 65% of our revenue was outside the US because we knew there were lots of places around the world to go.

So we opened these 17 offices and built the brand.

So I think we knew over time how to build a brand.

But what was clear to me was the sun was never going to set on that can now.

Because it was going to be somewhere around the world at any time during the day we would be doing something.

And I didn't want people based in Barcelona or Beijing or wherever having to quack up the hierarchy to get some answer back in San Diego.

But I didn't know how to do it.

So I'm flying on a Qantas 747 from Los Angeles to Sydney.

It's 1998.

And as you do when you travel, you take stuff to read.

And I read something that was attributed to the Delai Lama.

Our purpose in life is to make people happy.

If we can't make them happy, at least don't hurt them.

I thought, wow, that's pretty cool.

Hippocratic oath.

And then I read the quote from Aristotle.

Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.

I thought, that's pretty cool.

I wonder how you could build that.

I still didn't know how.

I got back to San Diego and I was reading something in the Union Tribune, and it was about a master's degree in leadership at the University of San Diego that was put together by Dr.

Ken Blanchard, the one-minute manager, and the University of San Diego.

You wrote a book with Ken?

I did.

And he wrote the foreword to my new book.

What was the book with Ken?

It's called Helping People Win at Work.

Ah.

And the byline is: don't mark my paper, help me get an A.

It's great.

Ken's 85, 86.

He's terrific, by the way.

He lives close to me.

We are very, very dear friends.

I love him so much.

We talk more than often.

He lives near you in Australia?

No, in San Diego.

Oh, 15 minutes away.

But I was at his 85th birthday, and it's just...

I love that guy to death.

Anyhow, I listened to him and he said, most leadership leadership is about getting people in the head.

We got to get people in the heart.

And that's what this program is all about.

So here I am.

I am the CEO of a U.S.

public company two years in.

I went back to school.

I went and did a master's degree at leadership.

Ken was one of my professors.

And I learned the essence of servant leadership.

And I started to implement it in the company.

And that was where it all started.

And from then we gained the momentum of, you know, now back then,

what I talked about, people, their eyes rolled, you know, you're drinking too much of Ken Blanchard's Kool-Aid.

You know, I remember going to board meetings and I'd be talking about culture and they'd be going, what is this culture thing about?

Now, today, culture is a big topic, but, you know, we were early beginners on it.

But it was really about, and that's where I learnt that it's not about me.

It's about...

How do we bring the best out of other people?

You know, we changed the name of manager in the company to coach.

Why?

The word manager in some dictionaries means manipulator.

So I come to you and say, good morning, Mike.

I'm going to manage you.

How do you feel?

No, what am I here to do?

I'm here to coach you.

And if you think about great coaches,

have you ever seen a great coach run onto the field and actually take the ball and try and score?

No.

Or we've seen them accept an award.

They never go to the podium to pick up the prize.

That's right.

But what do bad leaders do?

They micromanage.

They run onto the field.

They want to take the ball.

When something great happens, they're up there taking the prize.

If things go wrong, it's your fault.

If things go right, it's my fault.

And the other thing that's so important, great coaches spend a lot of time in the stinky locker room.

And that's where you really build psychological safety and trust.

You get to know your people.

Well, that was the third thing you said.

You have to have, like, for real engagement, I think,

people need to believe,

know that they can move the needle.

Right.

And the only way you do that is to leave them alone.

And coach them to play their best game.

So, you know, you have to redirect play occasionally.

Yeah.

But, you know, if you want to go on there and play the game all yourself, you'll just become exhausted and you'll never get a team that wins.

So.

I mean, do you feel that

something fundamental has changed in the broader culture and the broader society?

And I say that because it just sounds like there's so many bad habits that so many CEOs have employed for so long that something must have existed that allowed them to get away with it.

Maybe it was, maybe recruiting was easier.

Maybe there was just a more of a baked-in understanding of, well, this is what an employee does, this is what an employer does.

But

it feels like something fundamental shifted.

And maybe it was during the lockdowns.

Maybe it was when people came back in after having some time away that they realized that something really fundamental was was missing that went beyond the right just the job of it and it's a bad job of articulating it but it's no i know where you're coming from and i think certainly covid for all of us was a smack up the side of the head around a lot of things but i wrote an article around covid time they were talking about the great resignation it wasn't the great resignation it was the great escape great escape yeah people were escaping toxic cultures they said i've had enough and again, you know,

you and I could probably sit here and write a really good strategic plan about launching something.

You know, you've spent so much of your life in marketing and what you do.

And we take that strategic plan along to some smart professor and say, mark this up.

They say, great strategic plan, Mike, 70 out of 100.

But if only 20% of the people who go to work every day are

passionately executing against that plan, 20 times 70 is 1,400.

But if 80% of the people are executing, 80 times 70 is 5,600.

So duh,

why don't you get it?

Now I think a lot of it is short-term thinking.

You know, CEOs these days are pressured by what are you going to do for me in the next 90 days if it isn't working, who are you going to lay off?

Wait a minute.

You're going to let your brain drain, go out the door?

You've spent all this time developing these people?

You know, in my 25 years at WD-40 Company, we never laid anybody off at any time.

Now, never, never.

Now, we did share some people with competitors if they weren't really wanting to be with us, but in any economic time, we never laid anyone off because we said it was our people that were the asset, the will of the people was so important to drive our strategy.

Well, then,

how do you hire?

What do you look for in an individual, right?

I mean, because these ideal employees that you're talking about,

they don't come out fully formed.

They need to be coached.

So,

what's the bare minute?

Where's the benchmark for a good values?

If you were to go on our website, and I don't know what it says now, because I haven't looked lately, but when I was there, and I think it says exactly the same, if you went onto our careers page, the first thing that pops up at you is, here are our values at WD-40 Company, and here's what they mean to us.

If you can't align with these, don't even apply because you won't fit.

You will get voted off the island.

So are you allowed to do that?

I mean,

I do the same.

Mine's hanging on the wall there.

It's called a sweat pledge.

There you go.

Right?

Yeah.

If you're going to apply for a scholarship for my foundation.

This is it.

Well, we can still be friends if you don't agree with this, but

I can't help you.

Yeah, exactly.

But

it feels like so many CEOs today, so many companies are under so much pressure.

You can't really have that conversation.

Why not?

Well, because...

But you can test it.

Like, let's say our first value is we value their first value at W-40 comes, we value doing the right thing.

So what does that look like?

Or the second one is we value creating positive lasting memories in all of our relationships.

That was the second one.

So someone comes in to the organization and they visit the front desk, the person there that we call

the person of first impression, and they don't treat them with respect, do you think they're going to create positive lasting memories?

Well, there it is.

It says it's a special place.

Well, it says it, right?

But how do I know it's not bullshit?

Like, to our earlier point,

have a nice day.

Hey, how you doing?

It's easy to say the words, it's easy to write the words, it's easy to take actors or maybe your real employees.

I'm guessing those are your real employees.

They're real employees.

Let's see them against you.

Okay.

They're real people.

Each one of them.

I know each one of their names.

Are they really that happy?

What's happening here?

These guys look like they just hit the greatest lottery of all time.

98% of our people say they love to tell people they love at the company

from our surveys.

98% of our people say, I love to tell people I work at WD-40 Company.

97% of them say, I respect my coach.

Now their coach is their manager.

Most people leave organizations because they hate their boss.

And why we asked that when we asked them why do you respect your coach?

The answer was always very similar.

Because the coach is here to help me step into the best version of my personal self.

They're here, they care about me, they want me to do my best job and they're willing to help me grow.

How important is it for an employee

or what do you call them?

Caretakers of the brand or something like that?

Well, I used to call them tribe members.

Really?

Yeah.

I'm sure

you can get away with that in Australia.

You start calling people tribal over here, there's going to be L to Pay.

But it depends.

Tribe goes back thousands of years.

I'm not talking about any indigenous group.

I'm talking about human behavior.

Ah.

Okay.

I'm not wanting to tread on anybody's indigenous background, but Ugg the caveman was a tribal person.

You know, books have been written about the power of tribes or clans.

Let's call them, let's be Scottish.

Let's call them a clan if you like.

Fine.

But the number one responsibility of a tribal leader is to be a learner and a teacher.

That's the number one responsibility.

That was our.

Now,

you know, that was me when I was there.

What they call themselves now, I don't know.

Okay, then maybe

what I'm getting at, because my recent conversation with Gene Simmons is still on my mind.

He doesn't want to be called a Democrat or a Republican.

He wants to be called an American.

That's how he thinks of his tribe.

Now, that requires assimilation.

The kind of culture you're describing at a specific company, in this case, WD-40, my question is,

are you hiring people who need to assimilate, or do you just look for people who are already lined up so squarely with your values that there's really no friction?

He's not like the other celebs, you know, but it occurs to me that Theo Vaughan, like so many other guests on this podcast, is a true American giant.

What he's built with his own massive podcast and his comedy tour and his advocacy for people struggling with addiction and his whole unlikely overall rise to fame, it's not just a monument to hard work.

It's a love letter to reinvention and to the American dream.

I could say the same thing, of course, about the men and women who work for American Giant.

I mean, the sewers and the cutters and the dyers who make American Giant clothing right here in America.

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Well, of course, there's friction.

You know,

I'm neither an American, Australian, I'm a human.

I have a heart, I care, and that's what we were about at WD-40 is we care.

I don't care whether you're what color you are, what side of the street you walk on, but you know, I'm a human, and it comes down to that part of it.

You know, life's a gift.

Don't send it back unwrapped.

You know, we have too much to do here.

So if we treat people with respect and dignity, and whoever they are, that's who they are.

I mean, I'm a human.

I heard you say something once,

because I actually did do some research.

I'm not that blasé about my guests.

You said,

what would you do if you weren't afraid?

Yeah.

And since you've mentioned fear three times already and bravery twice,

drill down on that for a second.

I think get closer to the microphone because it looks like you're going to say something really important.

Yeah.

I want to make sure everybody hears it.

And in fact, that comes from a friend of mine, Tracy Fenton.

She has an organization called World Blue.

And it's a wonderful question to ask is, what would you do if you weren't afraid?

Now, what would you do?

And fear is this disabling emotion that you have.

And you have to think about it because, in most circumstances, it's the fear that stops us from doing anything.

So, it's a great question to ask.

Now, sometimes the answer is something that you don't want to accept.

You know, it's like, I can't do that.

I can't.

But it's a great question to ask.

What are you afraid of, and what would you do if you weren't afraid?

It's a bit passive-aggressive, right?

I mean, it presupposes you're afraid.

Are you still beating your wife?

Well, presupposes the beatings have

been ongoing.

But I like it anyway,

in spite of its, right, because

it does force you to think a little differently about the difference between, say, worry,

which is adjacent to fear, and concern,

right, which is adjacent to responsibility.

But

either of those things can tip.

When you're afraid, well, that's adjacent to paralyzed.

Yes, that we talk about the deer in the middle of the road.

You know, Mike, fundamentally, I believe we are just these basic human beings bumbling our way down this pathway of life, right?

And in the bushes are these thieves.

And they're the thieves of anger and greed.

And, you know, and they come out and they grab us off this path and they take us into the bush.

And for a minute there, we think, oh, well, maybe I feel okay here.

But if you stay in that bush, you will never ever get to your destination.

So we have to pull ourselves out of there and get back on the path.

So the question we need to ask ourselves all the time is, am I being the person I want to be right now?

And who is that person?

And why that's so important is that you could be in a meeting or some sort of gathering or something with someone and it ends.

And let's say you leave and you're a little agitated.

And now I'm coming to see you.

Don't I owe you my best self, not my leftover self from the last interaction?

So as a CEO, as a leader, you've got to have that discipline to say, I need to center myself to be my best self because I owe it to the person that I'm now going to interact with.

Because I don't want to take my leftover self to Mike.

I want to take my best self.

That's interesting, you know, because I've heard the argument also

posed that you it's not that you owe the other person, although you do, it's that you you owe yourself true first true you know i remember an essay i think tom wolf wrote it where he uh

it was a rumination on uh

not why some people are good and some people are bad it's it was why

it was the different reasons why good people do good things

and it's pretty nuanced but i i thought it was great is he said that um you know today if a good parent is in a store and their kid steals a candy bar and they see it happen, they take their kid to the side, they walk up to the manager, tell them what you did, and then you have this teachable moment.

Yeah, learning moment.

Right?

You have a learning moment, and you say to the kid, look, this is wrong because if everybody did what you were doing, the merchant would go out of business and it's not fair, right?

And you'd make the case, and that's what good people do.

100 years ago, same exact scenario.

It's just whap on the side of the the head, and it's like, hey, man,

you do that, you go to hell.

You understand?

You are robbing from yourself.

You are compromising your own soul, the future of the essence of you.

You just gave a piece of that away.

I'm interested in that

and the way our motivation might have evolved over time through the lens of why?

Why do the good thing?

The answer today feels a little different to me.

Yeah, you know,

I think back, you know, my mom, and there's a chapter in the book, and I think you

mentioned it before, even the queen sits down to pee.

It's one of my very favorite chapters.

And my mom,

you know, in Australia, we have a thing called the tall poppy syndrome.

In New Zealand?

As well.

Phil Keegan told me all about that, the host of the amazing race.

Okay.

I love that.

Explain it again for me.

Yeah, well, you get too big for your boots and, you know, people knock you down, but they do it in a way that's caring, sharing, and loving.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Yeah, it's nice when that machete just glides through your stem.

But, you know, I think that, you know, what mom

used to tell me was, you know,

don't overthink that you're the biggest and best in the world because you're really here.

to help those that you have the opportunity to help.

And I think that was really important.

And, you know, as I said, my mum lived till she was 99 years and nine months old, three months away from getting a letter from the Queen.

Maybe she would have told us she sat down to pee at that time.

I'm not sure.

But you know, I think that in life,

you can choose.

You can choose to do good or you can choose not to do good.

And leadership is...

is tough because you've got to have a heart of gold, but you've got to have a backbone of steel as well.

It's a balance between being tough-minded and tender-hearted.

And if you go to either end of that spectrum, you're not a very good leader.

A really tough-minded leader doesn't care about their people.

It's all about me, me, me.

That's Alec, the soul-sucking CEO.

The tender-hearted one

isn't brave enough to

have that conversation because they're protecting their own comfort zone at the expense of someone else's development.

But as a good leader,

if you go into a conversation with, I mean you no harm, you know, I'm here to help you step into the best version of yourself.

And here's why.

And you prove that through your actions over time, you build trust and you build that trust with the people you have the privilege to lead.

And that's important.

What kind of competition do you guys have on a practical level?

What other companies are out there with a very competitive product at a competitive price making your life difficult?

Well, you know, we're in the consumer business, so we're competing against, you know,

Razorblades and whatever else is out there because it's shelf space that we're after.

But if you really mean product, yeah,

there's lots of products out there, but Mike, I've spent a lot of my time making sure you don't know the name of them.

So I guess

I'm not going to.

Well, the reason I ask is that I just wonder if you run an organization that is essentially in a knife fight in a phone booth where your margins are so skinny, like, well, like razor blades, right?

That's a,

yeah, I don't know, like, if I need WD-40, I'm not going down a rabbit hole to see if there's a better option.

I know there's not.

Why?

Well, in part, because I'm fascinated by the company in a way that presupposes this conversation.

I think Norman Lawson's story is really interesting and the way it came out of the old rocket company.

And I just like the history of your company, and I like the way innovation informed it.

And then I really admire the way some smart marketing people spun that into

something golden.

And I wonder now if because all those things went that well, you have a special advantage to spend this much time making websites with genuinely happy people and writing books like this and talking about all this.

Is it because you were able to so dominate the space that you were able to focus on this or is it because you focused on your people and then dominated the space as a result will of the people times the strategy it's not an either or it's a both and and if you were to ask our end users at wd40 why do they buy wd40 you're an honest product you do what you say you're going to do and you're easily available

And you know, that's one of the strengths of the WD-40 brand.

We never positioned the product.

Is it an automotive product?

Is it a hardware product?

Is it a marine product?

Is it a household product?

Is it an industrial product?

Is it used in trades?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

In Walmart, you can buy it in four different departments.

Why?

Because we never said this is an automotive lubricant.

So here's the essence.

Do you need me is the first question to ask in any new market.

I have a story in there that I love.

Back in the 80s, when I was based in Australia, I was responsible for taking WD-40 into mainland China.

Back then, the only way to get into mainland China was from Hong Kong by train into Canton,

and there was no currency and whatever.

But anyhow, I ended up at an automotive trade show.

And I had some samples of WD-40, and WD-40 was built basically on, here's my product, please try it.

If you like it, please buy it.

So the Chinese word for sample is yang ping.

And the Chinese word for lubricant is lun hua.

So here I am

at a trade show, an automotive trade show, sampling artisans and tradesmen with my lubricant.

Yang ping lun hua, yang ping lun hua, yang ping lun wa.

I'm in the hallways of this trade show.

Nobody's paying any attention to me.

I asked my Chinese mates, is my pronunciation?

They say, no, you're okay.

Like I look out of the corner of my eye eye, and over there I see a line of people lined up at what looked like a Toyota motor stand.

And they are all walking away with a little brown paper bag with a handle on it.

And they're lined up to get it.

What the hell is in that bag?

They don't want my WD-40, but there's something in that bag they want.

So I go over, I look in the bag.

There's nothing in the bag.

What's going on?

So here's the learning moment.

That bag was something that they needed.

It was the size of a bag that they take down to their local store to bring rice back into the hat of value.

So my big learning moment is, well, there is a need, so why don't they need my product?

So we do a little huddle and we work out that they don't need a lubricant.

They've got dirty diesel oil that solves that problem.

But what they do need is an anti-rust oil.

Because rust and corrosion is something that is getting in the way of them doing their work.

So we immediately change the communication, just not saying here is a lubricant sample, but here is a sample of anti-rust oil.

Within minutes we had to have security guards on the stand to stop pushing us over to get that product.

Same product, different message.

Different need.

Different need.

So if you identify the need, number one,

do you need me?

Second thing, do you know me?

How do I make you aware of me being able to solve your problem?

And then can you buy me?

How can I make it easy for you to buy my product?

And that was really the essence and still is of WD-40 around the world is we are ubiquitous.

We are available in so many different places.

We're a distribution-driven product.

And if the automotive buyer says he doesn't want us, that's okay.

We'll go over and sell to the other guy.

And in fact, in San Diego, it all started that way.

They used to start to sell the product out of the back of their car.

And they'd they'd go to the auto shops and their pricing didn't work, so they went to the hardware stores and sold it there, or they went to the sporting goods stores and sold it there.

So, again, it was that determination of making it easy to buy.

So interesting.

You know, I guess you have to choose early on if you're going to, to your point, what's the question?

What's the need?

And so, you know, Apple would have a different answer than

Netflix.

Two very successful companies, but

neither have your name recognition.

Well, Apple probably does.

I bet it's close.

But I bet you there's more cans of WD-40 now.

Well, in the U.S., we're in eight out of ten households.

We're in more houses than Coca-Cola.

Just that

more houses than Apple.

Probably.

But our consumption, of course, isn't that high.

It's like stepping on gum with you guys, man.

Well, then use some WD-40 to take the gum off.

It removes gum from the bottom of your sole of your shoes.

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In the interest of complete and total transparency, I feel duty-bound to tell you that I do not use prize picks.

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Just how all purpose

did the big brains in the old days know this was?

Like, did they understand what Lawson and his team had invented?

Probably not.

Probably not.

You know, back in the year 2000, we ran a really interesting program.

We went out and we asked our end users, we were searching for the 2000 most popular uses of WD-40.

So we did a sweepstakes or communication.

And this was, you know, back then, that sort of media was not big time.

Anyhow, we actually started a fan club, a WD-40 fan club.

We had, I know, 130,000 members of the fan club.

But we had over 200,000 entries in the United States of people telling us their most favoured use for WD-40, which is now on the website, there's a list of the 2,000 identified uses for that blue and yellow can given to us by our end users.

So then I'm starting to see some corollaries.

You write about the importance of keeping your employees engaged,

but that's an example of keeping your customers

engaged.

So is there a difference in the way you think about it or does one necessarily just lead to the next?

Well, if you think about the second value that was in place at WD-40, we exist to create positive, lasting memories in all of our relationships.

That relationship is with our end users, those we have the privilege to serve, with our employees, those that work for us, with our communities that give us the right to be there, with the environment that allows us to do it, and even with our competitors.

You know, Simon Senick has a great...

He's pretty great, man.

He is.

He's a great guy.

I've known Simon for 15 years.

We met

at a conference we were both speaking at, and

he gave me an award,

and I'm privileged, I think, to call him a friend.

What was the award?

And get close to the mic when you say it, because you're going to to brag now.

I mean, and believe me, if this gets tall, poppy-ish, Chuck pops up.

I know.

It was an achievement award.

It's actually on my website.

And he gives out one a year to people he thinks who make a difference, I guess.

So it was pretty cool of him.

But he talks about not competitors, but worthy rivals.

And I think that's so important because if you look at the people that you're competing against as a competitor, you're playing behind the game.

But if you look at them as a worthy rival, you're playing in front of the game.

That's why I asked about your competition.

Iron sharpens iron, right?

Right.

So, you know, we are, you know, like our delivery systems that we developed, I mean, we developed those because we listened to our end users who told us that we would be more valuable to them if we could do certain things.

And we listened to them and we took it to them.

And I remember when we first brought out that, you know, easy reach delivery system.

I was still in full-time employment with the company.

Where's the can?

I know you brought one.

It was here a minute ago.

Where's the?

Oh, I'm sorry, it's right here.

I took it.

This is what he's talking about.

Yeah, that's it.

It's just, it's basically, I mean, a layman would call it a nozzle.

That's it.

But that was millions of dollars worth of investment to actually get that to where it is now.

You know, one of the things that's interesting about it, we had to make sure.

We had to make sure that the product didn't leak out of

the tube.

Right.

As it went along.

You see how it's, and the tube idea came from the microphone that you see on

headsets.

Sure.

So, but anyhow,

you know, again, we listen to our end users, but as Simon says, you've got these worthy rivals that keep you in front of the game, which is so important.

Well, you know,

The reason Dirty Jobs

has been on the air for 22 years, there are a couple things things that happened, and I'm not a marketer instinctively.

I'm fascinated by the market.

You can sew pencils.

You are a marketer.

Well, I mean, look, yes, I can tell a story.

But I didn't know at the time

how important it was going to be

to

ask viewers to program the show.

And after I ran out of the ideas that I had for the initial run,

you know, I started inviting people to go to to the website and let me know if, you know, somebody's got a dirty job, blah, blah, blah.

And then I started to read their letters on the air and thank them.

And then

tens of thousands of suggestions.

So the show was essentially programmed by the people who watched it.

It was also really hosted by the people who watched it because I showed up not knowing anything and let the expert be the expert, right?

That mattered.

And then, of course, the behind-the-scenes cameras that we used.

All those things mattered.

And I wasn't thinking really at the time, like, I wanted that behind-the-scenes camera because it made my life easier.

But what it also did was it showed the viewer, oh,

warts and all.

Yeah.

And so

it really elevated trust.

So there's a lot of stuff in this book that translates like outside of your industry.

Yes.

And I guess maybe that's just a long way of setting you up

to ask the question.

I'm like, I ask, who's this for?

Is it for other CEOs, or would you think about the knowledge, the insights, the learning moments in the book?

Can they apply to TV hosts or garbage men or anyone?

You know, I think the essence of the book is that servant leadership is a key to longevity in life.

We're here to serve others.

That success is simple, but it's not easy.

It takes work.

And that, you know, culture culture is truly a competitive advantage and

I you know I think that I've just completed my 25-year apprenticeship in leadership and now I want to share my learning moments around that which I think is so important so that's why I wrote the book I want the world to be a better place and

I think there's some learning in there that can help do that.

If we can get 100 people to just act a little differently, it'd be a nice thing.

You ever been to Cooper Petey?

No.

Really?

I have never been to Cooper Petey.

Been to Adelaide?

Absolutely.

In fact, going to Adelaide again in August.

Yeah.

Well, all you have to do is drive about three hours north.

North.

Yeah.

On the road to Cooper Petey, which really I don't recommend it.

It's an absolute crucible

of disasters.

I actually,

I stopped and wrote a song on on the way because there was so much exotic roadkill.

Oh.

And I thought they deserved to

be recognized?

Something.

Yes.

We all just want to be recognized.

Exactly.

That's what Dirty Jobs was about, and that's what good leadership is about.

And

so where do you go from here?

Do you go back to Australia, back to San Diego?

Where's home now?

San Diego's home.

I have a daughter in Australia.

Why do you still have the accent then?

You're over here.

Yeah, well, when I go back to Australia, that's not what my mates say, I tell you.

They give me a hard time.

But, you know, Australia is my homeland.

You know, it's my country.

Where I live is where I am right now.

And I have a son that lives here with a couple of grandkids.

And I have a daughter that's there with a couple of grandkids.

And, you know, we have other family here.

And I have a place in Hawaii in Kauai,

which...

Maybe we'll end up there eventually because it's only 10 hours from Sydney and five hours from...

It's a great place to stop on the way home.

Yeah, but no, and you know, I

really...

one of my dear friends is Marshall Goldsmith, and Marshall was the number one executive coach in the world, and he wrote a great book called What Got You Here, Won't Get You There.

He was coach to Ala Malally from Ford and whatever.

And Marshall gave me some really good advice as I was getting ready to refire.

I haven't retired, I refired.

No, that's clever.

And he said, Gary, don't float into a void.

And I said, what do you mean by that, Marshall?

And it's the last chapter in the book, and I think it's really important for people who are going through seasons in life.

He said, you've been the CEO of a U.S.

public company for 25 years.

It is actually you.

And unless you decide how you're going to pay it forward after that, on September 1, when you are not the CEO anymore, don't wake up without a purpose

because you will not know what to do next.

And I said, you're right, Marshall.

What was the quote again?

Don't go into the void.

Don't float into a void.

Don't float into the void.

That's terrific.

Can I tell you two super quick CEO stories?

I'd love it.

So, John Hendrix is my favorite, or well, he's certainly in the top two.

He invented the Discovery Channel and he did it basically from his garage and twisted like John Malone's arm and got some satellite transponder space and then licensed some documentaries from Australia and just started beaming them down.

He had no money.

He mortgaged his house.

He did the whole thing.

And his whole brand was built on a

like to your earlier point about

who are you?

Like, what is the point?

Distill it, right?

His was satisfy curiosity.

My second was: I did a few hundred commercials back in the day for Ford.

And

Alan Malally, since you invoked his name,

had taken over around the same time they hired me.

And I'd been there about a year, and of course, everything went to hell.

And, oh, God, the collapse.

And you'll remember all the CEOs sitting there before Congress.

And I was home watching this.

And this is the first time, really,

I got agitated and

in a positive way.

Like, this is the first time I said to myself,

with the possible exception of John Hendricks, I want to work for this man.

And the fact that I already was didn't matter.

But when he sat there, Gary, and they went down the, like these guys, they literally were kissing the ring, right?

Like they had to give their salaries back in order for the government to bail their companies out at Chrysler and GM and so forth.

And

so they kept a dollar and salary and so forth.

And they finally got to Alan and he said, nope,

I'm going to go ahead and keep my salary.

You go ahead and keep your money.

If the Ford Motor Company can't make it on its own, we don't deserve to make it.

Now,

I'm not a sentimentalist.

I'm a little cynical, truth be told.

But that hit me like a ton of bricks, man.

I wanted to work for that guy when I heard that.

And I was so glad that I sort of was.

But my business partner, Mary, reached out and said, look,

we're all in with this company right now.

Because I'd never been around a company that bet on itself and its own people at that moment in time to that degree.

And, you know, they're not WD-40, but there is, you talk about values and you talk about character.

You never know where you're going to find them.

You know, and I've had the privilege and honor of being in the presence of Alan many times because he's a dear friend of Marshall's.

And

his byline is, love them up.

Love your people up.

It's so true, man.

And one of the great leaders of all times.

And I've learned so much from Alan.

All he did was save aerospace and then save the automotive separate.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I was giving a talk,

a keynote speech to 100,000 Boy Scouts on the occasion of their 100th anniversary.

And I was about to go on stage and I just had a meeting with Alan.

We had dinner and it was terrific.

And

I remembered that he had been a Boy Scout.

He had mentioned it to me.

And I just called him.

real quick and I said, hey, I'm going to go talk to 100,000 Boy Scouts right now.

You know,

do you have a message for for him?

And he said, buy a Ford.

And I laughed and I said, no, seriously, is that a message?

And he said, well, I mean, there's so many ways to go.

And I said, well, let me ask it like this.

I'm going out with the message, a scout is clean, but not afraid to get dirty.

And he said, Mike,

that's one of the smartest things I've ever heard.

And my chest puffed up.

It was such a compliment.

I guess really the place to land the plane here is just to say

you really don't know what your words will do.

Right?

So true.

Because you don't know who's listening and you don't know who needs to hear what, when.

So you write your book and you give your speeches and you say your thing

and then you hope it lands.

Yeah.

I mean,

again, I really believe in what I said to you earlier.

Life's a gift, don't send it back unwrapped.

And, you know, if we can't make a difference in the world, you know, Ken Blanchard

often says, you know, it's that 80, 90-year-old you, and

who will remember you and why?

So, you know, be a little kinder, be a little gentler, and have a heart of gold and a backbone of steel, but make a difference in the world.

He's got two R's in his name, but don't hold it against him.

It's Gary Ridge.

He talks funny too, but I think he's got a lot of great things to say.

I love the title.

Any dumb ass can do it.

And I love what's between the covers as well.

Congratulations.

Big life.

Thank you for letting me come and share with you today.

And the other thing I'm really grateful for is my co-writer, Martha Finney.

She's a huge fan of yours.

Oh, is she?

Yeah.

So

she

just did a wonderful job in helping me with this.

Well, Martha Finney's got great taste.

Let's send her a picture when we're done here.

Absolutely.

She would love that.

And a bill.

We'll cover the picture with

WD-40.

It'll be a one of a kind.

Thank you again, Gary Rich.

I appreciate it.

Thanks.

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