A Conversation with Gov. JB Pritzker

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Hello, Mr.

and Mrs.

Miss, Mr.

and Mrs.

America and all the ships at sea.

It's the weekly show with Jon Stewart.

We're back

after our long

respite of not doing podcasts.

We are back.

It is, we're taping this on Wednesday, September 10th.

It's going to be airing tomorrow.

And more importantly, today is the day they launched Operation Midway Blitz,

named for the city of Chicago and what the Nazis did through Europe.

What could go wrong?

They'll find out why it's called the Department of War.

And by the way, I don't believe that's wins above replacement.

But we are fortunate enough today to be speaking with the field general who is tasked with repulsing this military incursion.

And that is the governor of the the great state of Illinois.

He is joining us now from the front lines.

Let's go to him now, Governor J.B.

Pritzker.

So, ladies and gentlemen, we are obviously, we have a correspondent in the war zone that is now Illinois.

It is Governor J.B.

Pritzker.

Sir, welcome to the show.

Operation

Midway Blitz is it underway

in Chicago?

Has Chicago fallen?

What the hell is happening?

Well, reporting to you from the front lines,

the ICE is on the ground.

We have already seen some arrests.

They are not in full force yet.

We've only seen, well, less than 10

detainments, arrests.

But

they only have, it seems like a dozen or two dozen people so far.

We know they they have as many as 300 agents that have landed at the naval station at Great Lakes.

Oh my god.

Did they take water craft and do a water landing and then storm the

they have come with 100 vehicles.

They are unmarked vehicles.

And we know that they are preparing to span all of Chicago.

And indeed, some of the arrests that occurred yesterday were in suburbs of Chicago.

So it's a pretty widespread endeavor, and it's being led by Gregory Bovino, who led the ICE raids in Los Angeles and caused all of that mayhem on the ground.

That's their intention here, but to do it

even more so here because Donald Trump wants to create a situation for Chicago where he can bring in the National Guard.

So that's...

Generally, you believe the idea is to provoke some kind of unrest within the city, which it almost necessarily will given the heightened emotions and elevated feelings about all this, and then

declare some kind of martial law and send it in.

Although didn't, you know, recently that was declared illegal to bring in the National Guard for any kind of law enforcement.

Not to throw my Supreme Court language around, but the Posse Comitatis Act.

Didn't they say that his actions in Los Angeles were not legal?

Yes, but as you know, the Supreme Court has ruled that a decision in one appeals court doesn't apply necessarily to another jurisdiction.

So we would have to go get the same ruling here.

Nevertheless, I think we would get the same ruling.

That doesn't mean they can't bring military troops on the ground here.

It just means they can only do certain limited things.

The challenge here is that, as you say, emotions are high, and that's not speaking just of Chicagoans.

Remember, the people they're calling in, the National Guard, the military troops, they don't want to be here either.

But they're being ordered to do so, and it's under the threat of court-martial for them to refuse to do so.

So these are folks who are coming in here.

They're being ordered by, again, Bovino, who wants to cause mayhem.

And some of them, I'm sure, are gung-ho to go after people.

And now, as you saw, the Supreme Court ruled yesterday, I believe, that it's okay to arrest people just because of the color of their skin or because of an accent that they may have or because they're speaking a foreign language.

And so, look, we have a very...

But if that foreign language is Swedish, I think they're still allowed to continue.

They're very specific about which language it is and which skin color we're talking about.

It does seem that way.

Although we've seen Ukrainians arrested as well, not yesterday, but but in past raids.

And I should point out to you that one of the reasons they're targeting Chicago is that they've been here before.

You may recall or you may not that Tom Holman actually went to a Republican fundraiser in the suburbs of Chicago just before Trump took office and announced there that they are targeting Chicago, that that is the first place they're going to come to deport people.

And when he did come, and he came nearly immediately after the inauguration with Dr.

Phil in tow.

Oh, that was in Chicago.

Dr.

Phil, the episode, the Dr.

Phil episode where he wore his flak jacket and went to various raids, that was in Chicago.

Dr.

Phil, the noted ICE agent,

was on patrol with Tom Homan and ICE.

They did that and they yielded very little.

in those raids.

Why?

Because we've been educating people on the ground about what their rights are.

That, you know,

an administrative warrant does not allow ICE to break down your door.

They can knock on your door.

You don't have to answer.

And unless you're out in public and for them to grab you, essentially

they have a difficult time running people down.

The other thing is, we have a consent decree that's in place in Illinois that says that when ICE is detaining somebody under one of their warrants,

the bystanders, the people who are with them who in LA were being rounded up and taken as well, in Illinois, there is an extra hurdle for them with regard to those bystanders, to the kind of folks who happened to be there at the time.

Did they make any effort to honor those administrative hurdles?

Because it seems very clear that what they've decided to do is whatever they want to do.

You know, it's very clearly the ethos of the administration is

we will ask for forgiveness, not permission, or even forgiveness is probably too far.

You know,

we will go in and ignore all of those strictures.

Well, we have a very well-organized group on the ground monitoring for these things.

And I mean, to your point, what we're trying to do is make it so that they have to follow all of the rules and all of the law.

And if they don't, we have lawyers at the ready.

So I think we've done a very good job.

And it's frustrating Holmen and Trump.

That's why they're targeting Chicago and talking about troops on the ground in Chicago, because they've been relatively unsuccessful here with regard to deportations than they have been as compared to, you know, other cities.

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So let's talk about what this might look like.

Because

what they always suggest is we are out there looking for the worst of the worst, the trend de aguas, the, you know, and very quickly it went from the leader of trenda agua to like some 17-year-old valedictorian walking his dog.

But

if this was about finding people who are dangerous, who are here illegally, but have committed crimes, what would a cooperative

relationship look like between the federal government and the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago?

How would you like

an operation like that to unfold?

What would be your preferred method for this to happen?

Well, let's start by acknowledging that indeed our law enforcement does work with the feds when it comes to arresting actual violent criminals.

We do that all this ongoing.

It's ongoing.

Ongoing, FBI, DEA, ATF,

even ICE, right?

Where there is somebody who has committed a violent crime.

I mean, that's our job too.

Would they bring it to you?

So let's say ICE says, so we've done our homework.

We know there are these, there are 19 people that we have warrants on that we know are in this area.

They would bring it to your people and say, help us.

Well, you need to differentiate anybody who's listening and listening to Donald Trump and Tom Holman needs to know there are two different kinds of warrants.

There's a warrant that's issued by a court, a judicial warrant, which we honor all judicial warrants.

If they come with a federally issued judicial warrant for somebody's arrest,

we will coordinate with them and help them arrest that person.

So even a so-called sanctuary city honors a judicial warrant.

Yeah, and we should talk about what the meaning of that of sanctuary city is, but but but but let's just focus on we we foot we want criminals off the streets, we want to prosecute criminals.

So so we do that all the time and we do it with the feds.

So that's not what we're talking about here.

What we're talking about with ICE is they have the ability, and this is why we have got to reform our immigration laws.

They have the ability to issue what's called an administrative warrant.

That's something that an ICE agent, without any judge or anybody else assisting, can just write themselves and say, Jon Stewart is now our target.

We have an administrative warrant issued by Joe Schmoe, the ICE agent, to get Jon Stewart.

It doesn't really require much.

Without probable cause.

And the Supreme Court says skin color and language can be probable cause.

Exactly.

That's exactly right.

And that is why we all ought to be worried about what's going on in this country right now.

So

an administrative warrant is what they are carrying around looking for people.

Now, if they have somebody who's committed a crime, they can get a judicial warrant that that's not hard to get if you have evidence of it, just like you do with a U.S.

citizen who's committed a crime.

But that takes time and paperwork, Governor.

Well, and when we're trying to hit 3,000 people a day, that paperwork thing is a real that whole paperwork thing that's called due process that you know is habeas corpus for goodness sakes stop sir yeah let's not let's not revert to being doing anything constantly let's not go fourth amendment on all this if that's how you're going to play it

so that that's the the problem here so hey look they have a right uh under federal law and we can't contravene federal law or override federal law.

The supremacy clause doesn't allow that.

They have a right to go arrest somebody with an administrative warrant.

What they don't have the right to do with an administrative warrant is break down somebody's door or do things that are

quasi-illegal.

What about these sort of the things that we've seen like at the Hyundai plant, like a workplace raid or a Home Depot where people might be gathering to try and get work?

Are those things

in sort of

those are administrative warrants?

And indeed, they actually now aren't using administrative warrants.

They're just saying you're in the presence of somebody who we have an administrative warrant for, so we're going to arrest you.

And they are on the ground.

Are they coordinating with any

agencies that you're they're just in there

freelancing?

They literally

didn't tell us what day they were arriving.

They didn't tell us what day they're going to start operations.

They didn't tell us they were going to the Great Lakes Naval Station.

We got one call, and that was from this Gregory Bavino.

This is the fellow from Customs and Border Patrol, again, that led the LA raids,

who called our state police and said, we are going to be preparing and maybe fully prepared by the weekend.

That's this last weekend.

But other than that, did not say this is when we'll be beginning operations and we'd like your assistance in any way.

So we don't know much.

Have you experienced this at any other time with any other presidency?

And I don't mean in the way that they're doing it, but in terms of coordinating

ICE or homeland security or those things, how unusual is this?

Just so that we can have a sense that, yeah, this is not how things are typically done, or this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment.

Well, this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment.

And look, I've been governor during, I started during Trump's first term and through Joe Biden's term and now this term.

So I have that experience with two presidents.

What I can say is that in the first term, we saw a lot less of this.

And during Biden's term, we did see some of this, but not nearly like what we're seeing now.

Now, would Biden's people coordinate, though?

Would they call you and say this is, or would they do kind of the same thing?

Is it a bit of a rogue agency?

They are acting as a rogue agency now, but during Biden's term, we did get a call to say that they're going to be going to these neighborhoods or they have these warrants that are issued.

Often they would come with a judicial warrant, I might add.

Did they use administrative warrants in the Biden administration?

Yes, they did, and they had the legal right to do that.

But again,

I mean, what the Trump administration has done is they've taken these administrative warrants and essentially told the ICE agents, you know, go to town, town, guys, whoever you think you might be able to get, you know, that guy down the street looks bad, write up a warrant.

And that's what they're doing, as opposed to a planned endeavor that's really about taking somebody off the streets who, you know, who needs to be or, you know, who is truly illegal.

And that also blurs the line because, you know, there's been a lot of talk, obviously, from the administration about the dangerous nature of Chicago.

And I think we, you know, look,

our country in general general is more dangerous than I think all of us would like it to be.

And he's talked a lot about Chicago is, it's the most dangerous city in the world, and that's why we're going in.

But that's very different than immigration enforcement.

So

what part of that mission creep is occurring right now?

Are they also making

law and order inroads into Chicago?

What is the purpose of this?

Has anyone discussed that with you?

Well, only what, no, nobody's discussed it with me.

Donald Trump simply stands up in front of cameras and says this is about fighting crime.

But as you know, the reality is that federal civilian law enforcement, hugely important.

We coordinate, all cities, major cities coordinate with federal civilian law enforcement.

And we've been doing this for a long time with the FBI, with the ATF, with DEA.

You might know, you might have heard that about 50% of all the gun crimes that are committed in the city of Chicago are committed with guns that were purchased in another state.

That's right.

Often, by the way, and just to point out where we are

geographically, if you look at every state that surrounds us, that includes Wisconsin, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, all of those states

have very lax gun laws.

And we don't in Illinois.

We've banned assault weapons, for example.

We've banned

these items that make your gun an automatic weapon, essentially.

That they just legalized, I think, like three months ago with the Trump administration.

They did it.

Yeah, not only that, they're giving tax credits for silencers on your gun.

Right.

But safety first.

Safety first.

So, well, no, quiet in the neighborhood first.

Yes, that's right.

That's what it is.

But

so Indiana is often the place where most of these guns that I'm talking about are coming from.

Are these guns undocumented, sir?

Are you having an influx of undocumented guns?

Could you do your own type of sweeps to get undocumented weapons off the streets?

That's a great way to think of it.

And yes, I'd love to deport those guns from this country, perhaps to the middle of the ocean.

But

what we do is with regard to all the guns that are coming across the border is we work with ATF and we do a lot of gun interdiction and confiscate guns

from people who shouldn't have them.

We also, by the way, have universal background checks in the state of Illinois.

They don't have that in any of the surrounding states or in the country, but we need one.

So

this is a challenge that we've got that Donald Trump likes to think that the military and ICE, which ICE apparently is becoming his new militia for his personal use.

But when you combine his thinking about military troops and ICE,

he thinks that's fighting crime.

We know that that's not how you fight crime.

Listen, our National Guard, and I want to talk about the Illinois National Guard, and we can talk about others.

And he's still, by the way, he's not using the Illinois National Guard to come into Chicago or doesn't want to.

He's bringing in from other states.

We don't know.

We don't know because he hasn't called up.

As far as we know,

we've heard rumors that he's calling up the Texas National Guard to bring them, which is, you know, a double offense because it was Texas that sent us the tens of thousands of migrants,

you know, simply to make a point

and gave us no resources and so on.

But, you know, and anyway, we could talk about Texas all day.

But let me just say that about our National Guard, and I think it's important to recognize this.

These folks are extremely well trained.

I think we have the best trained National Guard in the country in Illinois, and they do serve abroad defending our country.

And they also are helping us when I need to call them up in emergencies during COVID.

They helped us out with vaccinations.

We've had floods in the state.

We need them to help with sandbags and to evacuate people.

So they do amazing work.

They are not trained to do law enforcement.

We have a small cadre of about 250 military police who are better trained at crowd control and other things that are related to law enforcement, but really not the same as local law enforcement or Illinois state police.

So that's the problem.

You know, the first problem I would point out about calling up military troops to come into a city as if that's going to fight crime.

Obviously, if there's an insurrection or, you know, some other emergency, you're going to need troops.

Or if they wanted to declare some kind of emergency based on whatever.

hyperbole they wanted to use.

And that's the point, right?

And so I, but I'm just pointing out that if you really want to fight crime, and I've asked for this, I've been very public about it, please send us more ATF agents, send us more FBI.

And I've talked to those agencies, the folks that are on the ground here, they'd love to have more agents here to help them.

And I would too.

So please do that.

Do not send military.

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So here's where it gets, Governor, here's where it gets really,

it belies whatever motivation the Trump administration says they're trying to do.

So

I think everybody understands, you know, God bless

this president for understanding now that cities

can use more resources to fight crime.

But

perhaps these are not the best resources is what you're saying, or the best way for them to do it.

And I want to point out that

crime is a complicated issue.

It's not just about having tanks on the corner.

There's a lot of programs, and I'm sure Chicago has a ton of these for violence reduction, victim services, child protection, substance use, mental health treatments.

And he's cut all of those.

That's the point that I was trying to get to.

He has cut

anything that might help mitigate crime in cities for the approach of parking a tank

on the Miracle Mile or wherever it is that they want to put things.

And I'll go even further.

I think for the new budget, they're cutting ATF

by, I think, 30%.

So try and square square that circle for us as to how crime is fought in cities, how poverty is fought in cities, how resources can help,

and how they're actually not concerned with law and order.

They're concerned with authoritarian fetishization.

Well, let's debunk the myth that

we have somehow defunded police.

It's Donald Trump that's defunded police.

I've hired more police in the Illinois.

Donald Trump has taken all this money away and not just from police and including, by the way, programs for local law enforcement, but as you said, ATF, FBI, et cetera.

Grants that were already appropriated, by the way.

Exactly.

It's illegal what he's done, but he doesn't care.

And he wants to create a problem.

Remember, this is all about fomenting a problem so that he can bring militarization to our cities.

But you're right.

Crime is a complex thing to fight, and we've gone at it every which direction you possibly can.

I'll give you an example.

We have the best, most elaborate community violence intervention programs in the entire country.

We put $250 million

in to building out our capability on the ground.

We have peacekeepers that sit in the most violent communities on the corners and talk to those young people who are wanting to get involved in gangs or attracted to gangs to keep them out of it and to bring down the level of

angst and

anger that exists maybe between two rival gangs.

And you know what?

It's worked.

It's worked.

And those people are vital to our safety in the city of Chicago.

And I, you know, when I came into office, The guy who preceded me was a Republican.

He defunded all these programs.

Is it they believe that those programs have no efficacy?

Yes.

They think if you just have more police, that that's enough.

I think you need police, by the way.

Just to be clear, when I dial 911, I want somebody to come because there's an emergency.

So I'm for police, but that's a

lot of ancillary services that go into violence reduction.

And let's also be clear, these neighborhoods that are dangerous, the people who live in those neighborhoods want more police resources.

They want more safety, but it's complex.

And one of the things that I think drives it is this influx, iron pipeline guns, and all kinds of other things that help drive the chaos in these neighborhoods.

And you mentioned housing and education and healthcare.

Those all play into it.

You know, if you are hopeless, you are much more likely to believe that crime is your only alternative.

And if we give people an opportunity, possibly a job, possibly a job that doesn't pay $7.25 an hour, but how about $15 an hour like we've raised our minimum wage to and we should in the country, at least to $15.

But putting that issue aside, just the idea that you can get somewhere from a a difficult neighbor, a trauma-filled neighborhood, giving people hope, giving them an opportunity maybe to start a business in their neighborhood, those are all things that have the potential for reducing crime.

And importantly, peacekeeping, community violence intervention programs, again, they work and we have proven it in Chicago.

Arne Duncan runs one of the big ones that's here.

He's the former Secretary of Education

and has been hugely successful.

And we've looked at, he and I and the other organizations have looked at each

set of blocks where the highest violent crime occurs.

what happens when you actually put peacekeepers in those neighborhoods and work with people on the blocks.

like I said, it actually has the effect of giving people some hope and giving them an opportunity.

So violence has come way down.

Homicide rate has been cut in half.

What about in terms of like the frustrations?

Is there a frustration in Chicago?

I know here in New York, there are times where you'll read a story.

a guy will commit a horrific crime and you're like, and he's out on parole after committing 14 other horrific crimes.

Do you have that same scenario?

Is there a frustration with a revolving door in terms of

justice?

Has the

judicial system there

done a good job of determining who's an actual danger to society, who isn't, and those kinds of things?

Is that an area that can also be improved upon?

Yeah, our frustration led us to pass a law that actually requires, we've gotten rid of cash bail.

Let me explain why cash bail is a terrible idea and

that should go the way of the dodo bird and that is that what happens is whether you committed a violent crime or non-violent crime you get in front of a judge and they essentially put a price on whether or not you can get out of jail and awaiting trial well guess what the worst of the worst the people who have allegedly committed really terrible violent crimes can buy their way out if they happen to have enough money.

People who have committed a low-level felony or a misdemeanor

can only get out if they can buy their way out as well.

The question is, should you keep somebody in jail who's committed a low-level offense, nonviolent offense, if they don't have $500 for bail,

as opposed to somebody who's committed an attempted murder?

And so, yes, we've given judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys the ability to hold a hearing to determine whether somebody is, in fact, a danger to the community and should be held and whether, in fact, somebody ought to be let go.

And you know what?

We've had this in place now for coming on two years.

And it turns out that the same percentage of people show up for their trials as did before we had no bail.

And that's what you want.

You want to know what they're doing.

What about the discretion of the judges?

Have the judges shown good discretion in actually holding people who are dangers to the community?

Yeah, I mean, the answer is they've made mistakes, but let me just say that bail doesn't make it any better.

Just buying your way out doesn't, you know, say whether somebody is a, uh, you know, is a danger to the community or not.

And so the way we're doing it now is much more likely to keep somebody who is a danger to the community in jail.

Right.

Okay.

And do you have recourse when you find there are certain judges who are

whose discretion seems to be off kilter?

Vote them out.

Oh, it's that's the only recourse.

Yes.

Judges cannot be removed unless they've violated a judicial canon, some

oath of office.

But they are making judgments.

Sometimes they're not good judgments, but they make judgments.

But what I find ironic is that Republican judges, ours are elected all across the state.

Republican judges often like to, when they've let somebody out who then goes and commits another crime, they they like to blame the law that disallows cash bail instead of taking responsibility for having made a bad decision themselves.

Which would you rather have?

Would you like the perpetrator to choose if they have enough money to just buy their way out?

Or do you think we ought to have a system where judges and prosecutors are helping to determine whether somebody is a danger to the community and keeping them?

The judge is allowed to say, no matter what, we believe this person is a danger to our community, therefore bail is not granted.

And then they also have the discretion to say this is a misdemeanor and this person is not a threat to the community.

Therefore,

money does not change hands, but that doesn't mean that the judge cannot hold whoever it is that they that they want to hold.

Only for felonies and serious crimes, the decision is made by the judge.

For misdemeanors, they are,

you know, unless there is some other extenuating circumstance, that person is let out without bail.

You know, obviously they have to show up at trial.

And as I said to you, we have the same percentage of people showing up for trial now as we did before we got rid of cash bail.

Right.

What, in your mind, as the governor of a state that has, you know,

is it a lack of

resources that allows this sort of entrenched poverty and misery in certain areas of cities?

Why have these issues been so intractable?

Yeah, I mean, look, I try to address this every day.

It's part of my job, right, to think about

how do we lift up communities, reduce crime, how do we give people more hope?

And I would argue to you that there has been massive disinvestment from certain communities, especially in Chicago, but I would say all across the state of Illinois.

And I guess we could apply that nationally.

The disinvestment means that the dollars have flowed instead to the most powerful communities, to the most powerful people, and away from people who don't have much political power at all.

And I'll give you an example of something that I've worked on over the course of my lifetime.

Early childhood education.

Let me explain how this is related.

The children who need preschool and who need zero to three services are the children who are in the poorest communities, whose parents are the poorest people.

And all that's probably funded by their property taxes.

And if you're in a place where property taxes are, you know, negligible because properties aren't worth a lot, I imagine that that snowballs.

Well, unless it's funded by the state or by the federal government, as you're pointing out, when it's not, and that's disinvestment, and there's nothing in the community to support it, then yes, there are no services.

So the point is that the investment that needs to be made, we know that when you give those kids early childhood education, when you provide them with early childhood development resources and their parents, those kids are much more likely to end up graduating from high school, much more likely.

You're talking about Head Start and programs like that.

Yes, and we have all kinds of programs on top of Head Start that are hugely beneficial.

And so we've invested in those things in Illinois.

And again, you talked about how complex it is to fight crime, but guess what?

Someone who goes to preschool is much less likely to end up up in prison during the course of their life.

And they've done longitudinal studies over 40 years to determine these things.

So it's not like we're guessing.

So

I just think that as you were suggesting earlier, when you talk about education, housing, you know, these are really about fighting crime, too.

They're also about being humane and being the wealthiest country in the world and the ability for helping families stay together,

the kind of things that provide stability.

Indeed.

And

that's the country I want to live in where everybody has an opportunity.

I'm not suggesting everybody gets a huge handout and gets to live free on everything.

It's just everybody ought to have a reasonably

similar starting line,

at least when you're born, and given the same opportunities to grow up, have a decent education and be able to look at a potential job and aim for it and get it.

So that's a world that we're far from right now, and especially when we're moving backward under this administration.

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When we look at these funding cuts that are being made, these grants that are being taken away, they disproportionately affect blue cities, blue states.

There's clearly a vindictiveness about the way that this administration is approaching funding commitments, whatever their priorities are.

You know, you see the National Guard goes into Los Angeles.

They defund a lot of programs for Chicago.

He's always talking about his kind of nemeses, and they're always blue states and blue cities.

And they've been very effective at being able to do that.

I guess my question to you is, what can be done as collective action?

Let me roll it back because I think this is actually a larger issue.

70 plus million people voted for the Democrat in this last election or voted for Democratic representation, whether it be in the House or the Senate.

In my lifetime, I don't recall an era

where taxation without representation was higher.

Democrats have no representation at the federal level.

House Democrats are neutered.

They don't control any committees.

Senate Democrats are neutered, hindered by

arthritic leadership and you know, the 60-vote majority rules, all those kinds of things.

The Supreme Court, very clearly, there is no liberal real representation there.

The executive obviously has been supercharged with sort of a unitary principle.

The only real representation right now that Democrats can look to are blue state governors.

You're kind of carrying the mantle

for anything that a voter who voted for a Democrat can hold on to.

And it feels like

there must be some collective action that can be taken by these blue state governors to find ways to leverage their strength and power against a vindictive federal government.

Donald Trump is, he excels at one thing, finding the pressure points and pushing the limits of his authority to be vindictive and push what he wants.

Why is it that the Democratic governors are not in a room together right now discussing what they can withhold from the federal government or how they can leverage their collective power?

Well, let's.

That's a long question.

No, no, but

let's start with

I wish you'd have this conversation with some of my Democratic colleagues who are governors across the country.

I know you have with one or two.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I believe, for example, at the moment that Democratic governors should be standing up and speaking out, fighting forcefully, rhetorically,

because not individually.

Like Newsom is out there.

He's got a great social media strategy.

It's really funny.

I think it's effective.

You know, Shapiro kind of stays out of the way, Bashir a little bit as well.

But

there's no one voice.

I understand what you're saying.

And I mean, I can't speak to why others haven't joined the fight.

See, this is what I would argue.

I know what you're saying, like, why don't we have a council and act

as one?

And I would argue that it's because there seems to be a difference of opinion.

I'm on team fight.

I believe that we all ought to be standing up right now.

This is about preserving our democracy.

And we should talk about the issues that really matter to voters.

Democracy matters to some portion of voters, but we need to talk about the rest.

Anyway, let's put that aside just for a moment.

On democracy, that is a point that we all should be gathering on.

I'm even talking just about funding.

So let's say somebody, if he's taken away all the appropriation, what he does is, how many times has he threatened Illinois with the removal of federal funding?

Look what he just did at Northwestern University.

Yes.

And he's got, he's, we've had to take him to court consistently.

I think we've had 38 cases that we've had to take to court, just about what you just described.

Appropriations were made by the Congress that were signed into law, and he's just not abiding by the law.

And so that's where we have been fighting him.

When you talk to your fellow government, when you get, you know, there is a Democratic Council.

Yes.

When you say, can someone bring up what could we, can we withhold funds?

What can we use

to protect ourselves?

We do share that information.

You know, I created an organization of governors who are focused on preserving democracy.

We have

a group of attorneys general that work with the governors because, you know, those are our lawyers.

Those are the guys going to court.

The courts, by the way, vitally important in this moment.

If they fail, our democracy is going to fail.

But our attorneys general and the courts are what we have to rely upon for a lot of what we're doing at the moment.

There isn't, you know, remember, like I've got

ICE agents coming on the ground.

There's almost nothing I can do except monitor them.

And I've told the people of Chicago, pull out your iPhone, your Android phone, you know, video, absolutely everything you see with an ICE agent involved.

And of course, knowing the rights of, you know, people on the ground knowing their rights.

So what about withholding federal monies that you're going to be sending upstream to get distributed to

red states?

What are the levers of coercion?

You're being coerced and extorted

in all kinds of different ways, whether it be education, whether it be social programs, whether it be.

Yeah, but we don't collect a lot of revenue for the federal government.

They collect their own.

So there isn't a lot that we can withhold.

And so it's frustrating.

Believe me, it's frustrating.

And that's why I think we all have to focus on the 2026 congressional elections.

I wish I could tell you that there is some other method.

And believe me, I talk to governors all the time.

I mean, I am friends with all of the Democratic governors.

We talk all of the time.

You know, whether it's Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer or Andy Bashir, Tony Evers, Tim Walls, and, you know, and Gretchen and Andy, you know, we are the Midwestern Democratic governors.

We talk all the time

because we share a lot in common,

especially the protection of our Great Lakes, which Donald Trump doesn't care a whit about, but that is FYI 80% of the country's fresh water.

80%.

Yeah.

And so if you, I mean, if there's something that we all ought to be focusing on protecting,

that's one of the big ones.

Donald Trump doesn't give a damn.

Right.

But anyway, but the Democratic governors, you know, Mora Healy and so on, I mean, we do, we talk all the time.

There are slightly differences of opinion, maybe not so slight, about how hard you should be fighting.

And I personally believe

now is when you got to put it all on the line.

I mean, I helped to build a Holocaust, I led the building of a Holocaust museum.

And what the survivors taught me is that, you know, what they like to teach young children who come to the museum is

to ask yourself about what your values are.

And I would say this to all Democratic elected officials right now.

What are your values?

I mean, are you in this moment, are you a collaborator?

Are you a bystander?

just letting things happen or are you a rescuer an upstander the the survivors would tell you be enough

People need a roadmap.

Because I've heard a lot of this and Ken Martin says this a lot from the Democratic Party.

We fight and we need to raise our voices.

And I think a lot of people are going like,

okay,

what exactly does that mean?

And is there like even, why don't the blue states file a class action lawsuit?

Why don't you know?

We do.

We do.

Yeah, we do.

Our attorneys general, so that happens a lot with our lawyers, right?

The attorneys general actually do a lot of Democratic attorneys general do a lot of work together.

They file suits together.

They join together.

So that is happening.

Any promising out-of-the-box ideas that you've heard?

There are no new, you know, crazy new ideas that I've heard.

There's, you know, protecting our university.

I mean, all these things.

That's why, and I think we've all discovered here, let me just differentiate, because you said you've never seen it like this.

I just want to say, if you look, you know, here's what's different about this moment.

There have been times in the past.

Obama had, you know, both houses of Congress that were Democratic.

That's happened in the past where it's all one party controlling Washington.

The difference is that what is happening now is there used to be moderate Republicans.

There used to be Republicans who were independent, who actually did something different than what the president would want.

The Republicans have completely abdicated any independence.

And even the ones who you might have had private conversations with in the past or currently who disagree with the president go along with him anyway because they're afraid.

And they're giving into that fear.

Why are you in public office in the first place?

You know, I used to work for a guy named Terry Sanford.

He was the governor of North Carolina in the early 60s and then became a U.S.

senator in the 1980s.

He was the president of the university I went to, Duke University.

And Terry Sanford, in the early 60s when it was very unpopular to do so did the right thing and integrated the schools

he integrated this is in the south when george wallace was popular in the south right terry sanford

that the national guard was sent into to states without their consent Yeah, although that was because the reason for that was abrogation of a federal law.

No, that's what I'm saying.

I'm saying, though, that

that's the difference between how that power is being used.

Exactly.

And I I would just point out that

people who are elected to office ought to be more like Terry Sanford.

That is to say, yes, you've got, you know, it's great to be in office and to do all the duties, you know, cut ribbons and, you know, give speeches and what have you.

But it's these moments, right?

It's this moment when you should be standing up, speaking out, doing everything you can to fight back against what clearly is an authoritarian, maybe even fascist end to this, and

the attempt to in my view to uh take over the elections in 2026 and 2028 that's why the militarization right well he signed an executive order as well on no mail-in ballots and you know he's he's creating a federal regime for and you know what he wants right he he pushed the stop the steal movement he he pushed january 6th he right uh pardoned the january 6th uh rioters because he backs the blue he's uh he's a law and order guy that's why right right exactly and so i anyway i just i this is the difference in this moment.

Republicans are not independent at all.

We have blue dog Democrats.

I mean, look back just a few years and there were Democrats who would occasionally vote with Republicans on things, right?

But now you've got no Republicans.

You've got Republicans and Thomas Massey.

Is any of the difficulty in coordinating have to do with, and maybe this is an uncomfortable question to even ask, but, you know, a lot of Democratic governors have presidential aspirations.

I I think a lot of people think whoever is the next in line for controlling the Democratic Party, it's not coming from Washington.

It's probably going to be coming from the states.

And are the competing interests of people who have aspirations, including yourself for national office, is that preventing collective action because of individual ambition?

I can't speak for others.

Here's what I think gets somebody elected, getting things done, actually delivering.

And when you're a governor, you have to deliver.

I mean, we are literally managing a state day to day, every day we're in office.

And so raising the minimum wage is something that I fought for and succeeded at.

I got a massive infrastructure bill passed before the Congress ever got around to it because we needed it.

And Congress wasn't acting at the time.

And so I got that done.

Protecting workers with a workers' rights amendment.

I mean, these are all things that are.

But I'm saying in terms of, so

there's a slightly different mandate here for the governors because they're carrying the burden and the mantle of

sort of the last vestige of power invested in Democrats in this country.

It's not just anymore about running your states and getting those things done.

It's about

creating a kind of bulwark against it's the only thing other than a few district courts standing in the way.

Yeah.

So I'll give you an example.

Again, look, we have certain powers, and I am exercising those powers.

Here's an example.

We have created a sanctuary here for people who are looking to exercise their reproductive rights.

All around me, Missouri, Indiana, Iowa, et cetera, Kentucky, right?

They've made it hard for people or impossible for someone to get an abortion.

In Illinois, we are not only allowing them to come into Illinois and creating resources that are available to them, but also we are protecting them once they get here from being prosecuted in their home state, whether you're a health care provider who does abortions or someone who actually needs an abortion.

And that's something I can do that pushes back on what Donald Trump and the Republicans have tried to do in Washington.

I can't do everything.

I mean, it is just true.

I can't stop ICE from doing the things that they're doing that I don't like.

But we're doing the things that we can think of.

And I'm always looking for new ideas.

And that is why you are right, why Democrats and Democratic governors need to and are talking to one another and sharing ideas.

We did this.

Good news.

We figured out how to do this, many of us, during COVID, because we needed each other.

Right.

That collective action.

And also in the face of uncertainty, right, I needed to call up Gretchen Whitmer.

I needed to call up Andy Bashir and say, hey, what are you doing about this problem?

Is it okay for high school football to be played?

You know, what are your doctors saying?

How are you handling that?

Just examples like that.

We all had to talk to one another, and they were about things that really mattered in our states.

And so those relationships, Tim Walls, Tony Evers, Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Bashu, they have been here, all of us together for

nearly our entire two terms.

And so we, at least speaking of the Midwest, we do talk to one another and we do coordinate with one another and we agree on so many things.

It's not, I'm not, I'm not suggesting that we don't get along with

Gavin Newsom or with

a Healy.

I'm only suggesting that Democrats do talk to one another.

And I have talked to Gavin Newsom when he has had a good idea there that I'm like, hey, is that something we should do?

Or where he has talked to me about, what are you doing about this issue?

So those conversations occur, but it's very hard to create a council to move in some direction because we control our individual states.

One last last thing on that point, I just want to say,

I'm frustrated.

Once again, I'm frustrated by

the fact that, and I'm not just talking about governors now, Democrats have not stood up for the fight in a way that I think they should.

Well, there's no real lead.

I mean, when you look in Washington, there really is a dearth and a vacuum of leadership and ideas.

It's, you know, at first it was worrisome.

Now it feels pathetic.

I don't disagree with you.

And I'm screaming every day, you know, and reasoning with people too, every day about this.

All I can say is it's moving in the right direction.

The good news is kind of moving in the right direction.

It's just moving at about 15 miles an hour and it could be going at 100 miles an hour.

So I'm frustrated.

Here's the next thing that I think we all should be paying attention to.

Are they going to shut down the government or not?

Are Democrats simply going to go along with the big beautiful bill and the budget that's associated?

Or are they going to stand up and fight?

And I think that's a decision that's going to get made in Washington.

But boy, I think we all should be advising them about what they should do.

Right.

And if I could, a piece of advice for your attorneys general, you know, be creative because that's how we got in this situation.

And I think what the Republicans don't understand right now is Donald Trump is also leaving a roadmap for the next leader that might not be a part of their party.

That's right.

And that,

you know, the government doesn't only spend money on things blue states want, they spend them on things that red states want as well.

And if you think if the new normal is vindictiveness and unitary power

and a Supreme Court that allows the executive this kind of a leeway, don't think it won't be used the other way.

Exactly.

What about, I mean, the example I'll give is

if you allow

the president to use the military to impose his will on states, well, how about in the reverse situation, some Democrat, you know, wants to oppose their will using the military by taking your guns away?

Sure.

And, you know, there might be people who are in favor of doing something like that.

But should that be constitutional allowed?

Should the Supreme Court go along with that?

No, none of us should be okay with that sort of thing.

But if the Fourth Amendment means nothing, why does the Second Amendment mean something?

I mean, that's really where we're where we're at in this i mean they're they're picking and choosing uh the supreme court especially the supreme court especially because we can have bad guys who get elected to office but the supreme court at the at the end of the day is supposed to be the arbiter of actually what's constitutional and what should be allowed right well uh governor i appreciate you spending the time we wish you the best chicago man we were there for the convention what a wonderful place i've been there many times uh had some really memorable nights there that I will not talk about,

but it's great.

And I wish you guys the best.

And I hope things don't escalate in the ways that you don't want.

And I hope that the other governors take seriously the idea of creative collective action because it's so necessary.

I'm with you.

Thanks so much for having me on.

Thank you, Governor Pritzker.

Talk to you soon.

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you know i i i i always forget you're talking to these guys like, you have got to help us on a national level.

And they're like, you know, I'm running a state.

A big one, too.

Right?

Not one of the small ones.

Right.

It's not one of those guys running those states where they're like, how many people you got?

700,000?

Yeah.

Like, you might be able to walk and chew gum if you're like the governor of Rhode Island, but yeah.

Whoa, now

shit.

Very hard to match.

You know, the smaller states, surprisingly tricky.

It's the, it's the Wyomings and the Add where they got all that space.

Boy, you could do whatever you you want.

Land management.

That's what I'm talking about.

I do wonder how they're going to avoid the kind of provocations that can accelerate these conflicts.

Yeah.

I mean, the fact that Texas, too, like sent 50,000 immigrants to Chicago and is now potentially the one sending their National Guard to round up these immigrants, it's like, it just feels like it's like manufactured crises all the way down.

It is, you know, the only thing I would push back on that is Texas

really was at the center of a large influx of migrants that put a tremendous strain on their state.

They didn't have to be so dickish about it.

Yeah.

But the truth is they had a point about

the resources of an area.

And if you think about even in New York, if you send 40,000 people to New York, it's a city of 10 million people.

What that did

to every, you know, people were running around like their, you know, their hair was on fire.

The thing that bothers me the most about all of this is it seems so disingenuous.

There is no collective, hey, how do we work together to tackle what are actual intractable problems?

It's more like,

how do I do a performative, outrageous act

that elevates my profile.

They have no interest in addressing the actual underlying problems.

Well,

I thought that was really interesting when he said, look at what they're doing with the grants for violence reduction.

And the ATF, the proposed budget cuts there.

Like, if you were actually interested in solving these problems,

we could trip away.

We could keep, at least keep funding the ATF of where it is currently.

Yeah.

You don't have to cut.

I have never understood how they are able to remove the influx of illegal guns and the ease at which people get these incredibly powerful weapons from the idea of, I mean, look at what the meals they're making on those terrible tragedies from

people who've been killed by undocumented people or what happened in North Carolina on that.

They're naming these

operations after them.

It's

yeah.

But what about the names of the people killed by Italy?

It's as though that doesn't exist.

It's a separate universe.

You can't say you're for law and order and not address

that.

I just think about Nathan Dahm in those moments where it's just, it is, it is the most important.

And that's the end of that conversation.

Nathan Dom, of course, that state senator from Oklahoma.

And I remember saying, like,

does

requiring training for firearms, you know, make it safer?

Yes.

But you've removed those requirements.

Yes.

So you're making us less safe.

No.

You know, I was going to add something unrelated, but I felt like at the end of our episode today, we maybe needed a little pick-me-up since, as Pritzker said, there was like a 15-mile an hour move by the Democrats to do something of

recourse in some way.

But something I do think we should highlight is the fact that federal grand juries from LA to DC are rejecting these trumped up charges against people who are having interactions with federal officers, et cetera.

And people are doing this on their own, you know, removed from each other.

It's a

coordinated, uncoordinated recourse against the abuse of power right now.

So people are doing it.

You know what?

That's a very important thing to remember is that acting locally.

and in those areas is still holding as hard as the Supreme Court is trying to not let that happen.

It's nice to know that it's still out there.

Absolutely.

So I get it.

Brittany, while we were gone, did anybody, did people chime in over the break?

Do they have things they need to know?

Is there.

We have so many questions for you.

But we're going to start with just a couple today.

Yeah.

Two, two.

Two.

All right.

John, would you say the fusion of Fox News and Trump's presidency is finally Roger Ail's wet dream come true?

Oh, first of all, I don't know if there is a mental image for me that is more disturbing than Roger Ailes wet dream.

I just, now I have to think about Roger Ailes waking up going, what happened to the bed?

What the heck?

Did someone spill, someone spill applesauce?

What the hell's going on around here?

So that's.

I've never wanted to be blasted to the moon as much as right now.

Thanks, John.

I think

Fox News and Trump's presidency, I mean, I do think, you know, look, this was their dream to create this thing that would inoculate a Republican president from criticism.

I think it's been an incredible tool for de-emphasizing any institution and any institutional knowledge that may have been viewed as

corrosive to the Republican experiment.

So, yes, I would imagine that wherever he is, and I won't look up, but

he is coming in his later hosen or whatever it is that they wear.

It's got to be later hosen.

In the place that he finds himself.

What else do we got?

John Williams.

No, by the way, no one is still listening because

as soon as we went into Roderay L's wet dream, I think people just justifiably went, yeah, I'm out.

That's enough of this.

Yeah, I crawled out of my skin.

Phone went out the window.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get that.

John.

It's segue ready.

I am trying.

Okay.

Yep.

John, what name do you think bugs Donald Trump more?

Jeffrey Epstein, Stormy Daniels, or Barack Hussein Obama?

Oh.

So, Barack Hussein Obama, I actually think he loves because that's a weapon for him.

So he views Barack Hussein Obama as he's got that arsenal in his pocket.

He pulls it out whenever he needs it.

You know, something's going.

In fact, Barack Hussein Obama is almost like if this was a Harry Potter thing.

So like, you know,

who's the guy?

Voldemort comes in.

Jeffrey Epstein.

And then Donald Trump.

Barack Hussein Obama.

It's like

Deletrius Elipetrius, you know, and gets to throw throw it.

And Stormy Daniels, I think he looks upon as like, you know, you bring up an old girlfriend from high school and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, you know, we're past all that now.

Like, he, he,

well, yeah, that was like three Brazilian news cycles ago.

That's right.

That's right.

And he survived.

And, and was it, you know, imagine you have a situation where someone like Stormy Daniels, uh, you do that.

Your wife is like, boys will be boys.

And your lawyer and your accountant are the ones who go to jail.

So I'm sure for him, that's just a dodged,

it wasn't even a bullet, just a small cone in there.

It wasn't even a detour.

But Barack Hussein Obama and Jeffrey Epstein, I think are the two polarities that exist in his life.

He's got one that actually

presents a little bit of intrigue and danger to him.

And then he's got the other that he uses when he's in trouble.

It's like a flare that he sends up.

That's where I'd go there.

I love that we take all these questions very seriously.

I do feel like, I think those three names, like Barack Obama, Stormy Daniels, Jeffrey Epstein, that's like the most obvious merry fuck kill I've ever heard.

There's no question.

There's no question of who you're killing in that.

That's really fun.

That's really funny.

Brittany, how can they keep in touch with us?

Twitter, we are Weekly Show Pod.

Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Blue Sky, We Are Weekly Show Podcast.

You can like, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel with the weekly show with Jon Stewart.

And I'm very excited to announce our new OnlyFans account, Johnny's Hot Takes.

Are we on OnlyFans?

Your wishes come true.

We have negative subscribership.

Come on.

No, baby.

I'm going to have bad baby, baby.

I'm going to cash it outside.

For legal purposes, I'm kidding.

I'm deflated.

I thought we were in.

Well,

it's good to be back.

It's good to see everybody.

Everybody looks well rested and fired up.

Thanks again to lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mamedovic.

Now, video engineer Rob Vitola was unable to join us this week, but capably in the hands of Sam Reed and, of course, our audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate producer Jillian Spear, and our executive producers Chris McShane.

Katie Gray, we are back and we shall see you all

next week.

Thanks so much for listening.

Goodbye.

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart is a comedy central podcast.

It's produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.

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