Are Red Light Masks Worth It?

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If you want to convey something about this person, oh, put a red light mask on her because it means that like it's a status symbol.

Yeah, it's like she got money.

She got money money.

She got mask money.

I'm Christine Seer-Clissette.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

I'm Rosie Guerin.

And you're listening to The Wire Cutter Show.

This episode is called, Are Red Light Masks Worth It?

Hello, my dear pod friends.

Hello.

I want to talk about this thing I was reminded about this weekend.

I was watching that Netflix show Sirens.

It's a new one with Julianne Moore.

And she plays this like eccentric billionaire.

And there's a scene where she is lounging in like a very fancy robe and drinking champagne.

And she is wearing one of those red light masks.

Oh, yes.

Have you seen these devices?

Oh, yeah.

I've seen them everywhere.

Everywhere.

Yeah.

I mean, I've been thinking about buying one for years.

Serious?

I haven't pulled the trigger.

I've only been seeing them on my timelines for the past like few months.

Oh, you young'uns, you young'uns.

What I'm hearing is this is not a silly trend that this is a thing that's like been in the zygote.

It's been around a long time.

Yeah, they're supposed to, you know, make you look younger, essentially, like boost collagen, reduce the look of wrinkles.

Oh, so it doesn't just make you look like an android with red light in your own home.

Well, there's that too.

We just came out with a review of them, which I am so excited about.

And I have been waiting because I've been wanting to get a recommendation.

So because I want to have that Android look at home.

But so I think at the end of this episode, you're going to know which one you're getting.

Hopefully, yes.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people who are maybe considering buying one of these,

it's not a cheap purchase.

There are devices you can get that are like wands that are under $200, which, you know, that's still, that's still some money.

But the actual masks, you know, those are like $500.

Some of them can be like $2,000.

But the question is, okay, you're going to pay $500.

Does this thing work?

Right.

Well, I think we should find out.

I think we should get to the bottom of it.

We're gonna phone a friend.

That's why it's always so cool to work at Wirecutter because we can always phone a friend here.

So, we're gonna talk to Rory Evans today, Wirecarter Skincare Supervising Editor, who's covered everything from facial cleansers to the best Korean skincare products.

That's right.

So, when we're back from the break, we are gonna talk with Rory about these LED red light devices.

Do they work?

Are they worth your money?

Will you look 15, 20, 30, 40 years younger if you start using them?

Or are you just going to look like the movie poster for Eyes Wide Shut?

I mean, for those who don't know that reference, I think that's a good idea.

Who doesn't know that reference?

I had to Google it, as you know.

Lord in heaven.

All right, we'll be right back.

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Welcome back.

With us now is Rory Evans, who is Wirecarter's skincare supervising editor who's been covering this area for over 20 years.

She also previously worked at Allure, Real Simple, and Martha Stort before this.

Welcome to the show, Rory.

Thanks for having me.

Today, we are going to do a deep dive into LED lights.

Some people call these red lights.

They're often kind of like these masks or wands that shoot red light at your skin.

And I've long wondered whether these things work.

So can you explain to us, what are these supposed to do?

The light penetrates into different layers of your skin and it boosts the production of collagen and elastin.

So it's going to make your skin look firmer and it's going to make your wrinkles look less visible, like fine lines are going to look less visible.

So that is what's happening.

So when did this red light therapy for skin come about?

And what's the backstory?

The backstory is that it was developed by NASA and sort of like any good invention.

It was discovered by accident because they were using LEDs, light-emitting diodes, to grow plants.

And the scientist who was doing the experiment found that lesions on his skin were less pronounced, looked better.

So then it sort of made this shift into healing and skincare.

But they haven't really taken off as like a skincare facial treatment until like the last decade, right?

Yeah.

The treatments are used in dermatologists' offices.

And then there are this like this home care.

And the ones in derm offices are stronger.

You use them longer.

You might use them for different skin challenges.

The derms that I talked to for this guide, almost all of them use them in their offices and have been using them for decades.

And do they look like vampires?

Like they're like so.

There's one woman who is, she not, not like a vampire, because that's like so.

She looks amazing.

And I made that point at the end.

And she was like, like anything with skincare is like, it's my jeans.

It's how much I stayed out of the sun.

It's I knew to stay out of the sun.

It's using sunscreen when you're in all the things.

So it's not a secret concoction, like the substance or something.

Yes, exactly.

So let's back up for a second because I know nothing about these devices at all.

I've seen them, but I want you to hold my hand and walk me through how I would use one if I was gifted one of these.

Okay.

Hint, Kyra.

Well, it would depend.

If you get a wand, you're literally going to move it around your face the way you would, like, I want to say it's like the way you would shave, just like keep moving it around your face.

Or using an electric toothbrush, you just like wait for the two-minute timer, move it to a different quadrant, but you would do it for 12 minutes, which is an eternity.

Yeah, I can barely brush my teeth for two minutes.

Same, same.

It is like the time melts, like the clock is wax, but it takes forever.

Or you take a mask and you put it on your face.

And you just sit there.

You just sit there.

And you press a button and then the session just goes.

You press a button and yeah, and it goes and then it turns off in like 10 minutes.

And Dr.

Glennis Ablon, who is one of the doctors that I interviewed for this, she's like, people think that in order for it to work, it has to hurt.

And this does not hurt at all.

You know, especially with light, with laser, you think it's just going to be something that's like burning and blasted off your face.

It doesn't hurt.

It shouldn't hurt.

No, yeah, it shouldn't hurt.

And it shouldn't, it can feel warm.

It shouldn't feel like hot.

Yeah.

I've had a professional level one of these used on my face, and we wore goggles because the light is so bright.

So, with these at-home devices, are you supposed to wear goggles?

Yes.

And some of the masks have like little, you know, protective, almost like silicone shields around the eyes.

A few of them come with, you know, like the little goggles that you would wear like in a tanning coffin, right?

You know, like, um, tanning coffins.

Like, like that.

Vampire

coffins when I was in high school,

I feel like a lot, you know, fewer people would have gone in them.

But still, even

I wore those with some masks and I could still just see a wall of red.

Oh, wow.

So it's kind of intense.

But what are you supposed to do when you have these masks on?

Like, I've seen some of them literally look like the Phantom of the Opera masks where they have like the eye holes.

So maybe you could watch TV, but it sounds like you're not supposed to keep keep your eyes open.

People say that.

They're like, I just like walk around my house and do my laundry and whatever.

That was not my experience.

I would recommend the other thing is it's 10 minutes.

Like just sit down, relax.

It's therapeutic.

You're supposed to be taking a minute of self-care.

Listen to a podcast.

Preferably this one.

Yeah, exactly.

I would just recommend not having your eyes open.

There were a few I could very comfortably leave my eyes open, but most of them were really, I don't know, it's intense.

It was intense.

These kind of sound a little bit too good to be true, as most things with skincare

do at home.

Did a lot of your testers think that these masks work?

That was definitely the case.

Our testers were like, I feel better, or I feel like my skin looks less wrinkly, or I feel like my nasolabial folds are less pronounced, or the lines around my mouth, like sort of those parentheses that you get around your mouth.

And crow's feet, they felt like it looked better.

Was it the only thing they were doing for the skin at the time?

No.

You know, that's the challenge of the way we have to test.

But

they did like it.

And the other thing is that I think a lot of people felt like they had nothing to lose and only something to gain.

What is a nasolabial fold?

It's the lines between your nose and your lips.

What separates your cheek area from your lip area?

Smile lines, right?

Yeah, exactly.

How long did you have to use them or did most people on your testing panel have to use them before they saw a difference?

Some people were like for a month and were feeling like it was better

every day, once a week, as instructed.

And I want to say that some of them were like,

some of them are like 10 minutes, five times a week, every other night, three times a week.

It really depended on the instructions.

So were you taking before and after headshots of everybody, like testing for efficacy?

No, it was self-reported improvement and enjoyment, too.

What was the main criteria, would you say, in terms of judging?

Like, did you look less crinkly, wrinkly?

Did you look firmer and fresher?

And

I mean, some of it was just user experience, too.

Yeah.

Some masks had all the controls were on the masks.

So you would be pushing buttons to change modes and change the color of the lights.

kind of impossible to tell while it's on which one you're on.

And, you know, it's almost like when like a door has three locks and you're like, wait, I did that one and that way, you know, like, and you can't figure out like which one you're actually in.

Some had wand, like remote control wands that were also a little bit, a little bit tricky.

Some were great.

Some were

really uncomfortable to wear.

Some were very comfortable to wear.

Some were,

you had to wear eye goggles with it, but wearing the thing with eye goggles and then operating it was.

literally groping in the dark if the dark were a wall of the brightest red you've ever seen in your life.

Why do this to yourself?

I know.

It was that too.

You know, just like, is this something that I want to use for 10 minutes every night or five nights a week or every other night or however often it's recommended to be used?

And the price too.

LED lights, do they have any negative impacts on your skin?

Like, is there any UV light that's actually penetrating your skin so that it could be like damaging in the way that sunlight would be?

No, because UV is at the other end of the spectrum.

Okay.

Right.

So it's ultraviolet and infrared.

We're like in the red, not in the violet end of the spectrum.

There are also like lots of considerations and contraindications for using it, like lupus, if drugs that cause light sensitivity.

If you have light sensitivity and you get migraines, if you have darker skin, that's also sort of, it's one of those things that you kind of want to talk to your dermatologist or your doctor before you try it.

And if you try it, spot test it before you go all in on your face, because it may cause hyperpigmentation.

It may cause a reaction.

In some ways, it's like any skincare thing.

So probably a good idea, especially if you have melanated skin, you should be talking to your dermatologist before using one of these devices.

And then if you have something like lupus or you have something where you're having, you know, you might be impacted by light, you should also be talking to your doctor.

I would say talk to your doctor anyhow, just to be on the safe side.

I said to my dermatologist, I was like, and she's like, oh, I love red light devices.

So I was like, okay, that's my go-ahead.

And she was taking into account my, you know, what's going on with my skin or whatever.

So, as your dermatologist or doctor would do for you, are there places you can try these devices out?

Or can you, is it like, you know, the bed in a box where you can sleep on it?

And then, well, it's that was one thing that we considered for the guide was that we wanted to sort of make sure that they have solid return policies and good warranties because

you try it and you're like, oh, I'm down 350 bucks, and this thing like doesn't feel good, doesn't fit well.

It doesn't work for my skin for whatever reason.

Exactly.

So that was a piece of our consideration.

So we're talking about devices.

These are things that you can line your couch and use at home.

What are the considerations and why would someone opt in to a device rather than going for treatment at a dermatologist's office?

Some of it is affordability and some of it, I think, is also like any piece of skincare.

It's sort of like the maintenance in between.

So like you're going to see a dermatologist for like expensive treatment and then you're going to do self-care in between.

Did you cap your search in terms of price?

We did.

We put a cap on it.

We put it at $600 and that was like not an easy one to set because it still felt high.

None of our picks.

You know, I want to say our top pick is like just under $400.

And they're also like, I mean, this is speculative, but they're in the zeitgeist more than they've ever been, I think.

Yes.

And it's almost like such a signifier.

It's like the prop.

If you want to convey something about this person, put a red light mask on her because it means that like she's.

It's a status symbol.

Yeah.

It's like an immediate flag.

Like she got money.

She got money in the middle.

She got mask money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I have looked at a lot of these.

They're all over the place.

There's ones on Amazon.

Goop has a quite robust page with a very, very wide range in prices.

Could you just give us like, what is the cheat sheet of what someone should look for in a red light device?

Because I have no idea.

Just looking at the prices, it just seems like it's all over the map and I wouldn't really know where to begin.

What were you looking for?

And what's the just simplest list of things?

We were looking for, one, if it was just a straight blue light device, we cut it out of consideration because blue light is used to treat acne.

So many of the derms that I talked to were like, there are so many options for treating acne.

Like blue light shouldn't be the only thing.

And then we were looking at red light devices that had,

bear with me, I'm going to talk about nanometers.

I'm going to talk about wavelength.

So we looked for ones that had red light in the range of 630 to 650 nanometer.

And can I just ask?

Nanometer is a measurement of wavelength.

Is that what that is?

Yes.

And those numbers, they indicate the color of a light.

and that means like how deeply they will penetrate the skin exactly okay and so red light in the 630 to 650 nanometer range and then near infrared in the 830 plus nanometer range and then we also looked at irradiance which is the power over an area and that's measured in megawatts over square centimeters it's recommended by the dermatologist that i interviewed soft masks had at least 30 megawatts over centimeters squared hard masks had at least 50, and wands were at least 49.5.

Also, you want to make sure that it's FDA cleared and we made sure that the ones that we have are FDA cleared.

Okay.

But they shouldn't say FDA approved.

If it says FDA approved, they're telling tales because the FDA does not approve these devices.

They will clear a device, which is to say that the company has done their due diligence and submitted paperwork to say that you cleared a device that's a lot like this.

And then they get clearance as well.

You might not be able to find that information on

the Amazon page.

On the Amazon page.

You might want to need to go to the brand page.

To the brand page and look it up.

So I'm recapping here.

The consensus here is that these work.

No two people are created equally.

So it's hard to say that it will 100% work on you.

You got to check with your dermatologist before you jump into this purchase.

These aren't cheap.

The mask is going to be a more passive experience in terms of kind of sitting back, putting the thing on your face, running a session and repeat.

Whereas the wand is going to be a little bit more active, like using an electric toothbrush.

You got to run this thing over your face for 12 minutes that feels like an eternity.

Yes.

That's a direct quote from you.

And also, if you're shopping for these online, you're going to want to look for red light in the 630 to 650 nanometer range.

And you're going to look for near-infrared light in the 800 plus nanometer range.

Yes.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then when we come back, we're going to get into all the details of the three LED devices that Roy recommends.

Be right back.

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Welcome back.

Now that we have discussed all of the sort of things that LED lights can do for your skin, Rory, I want to get into the actual picks that you made because you tested a lot of these devices and you recommend three in our guide.

You recommend one wand and two masks, right?

So can we start out with the wand first?

What did you pick and why do you like it?

We chose Light Stem for Wrinkles and it costs $200.

And at first,

it's called Light Stim for Wrinkles.

Yeah, that really stopped me.

She said

what's it for?

It's for sure.

Surely, that marketing group could have come up with a better name.

Well, there were, there are like other in the line of light stem, there are other like light stem for acne, light stem for whatever.

We chose light stem for wrinkles because it met our criteria for the red light.

At first, I will admit, I was like, kind of, I wasn't underwhelmed.

I was just sort of like, oh my God, this is it.

Like, it seemed like dumb simple.

You plug it in, you hit a single switch and it turns on.

And then after three minutes, it like shakes a little bit, lets you know to move to a different spot on your face.

It was sort of like without bells and whistles.

And so many of these options have like bells and whistles.

And then I was like, but wait a minute, like where it matters, which is to say like the number of LEDs that it has packed on the face of it is legit.

It's 72 LEDs.

And that is more than any

of the wands that we tested.

They were also more densely packed.

Those lights were more densely packed than the masks that we tested.

I think a lot of people, I know when I think of a wand, I think of the solo wave, which is very, very popular.

And it kind of looks like a little shaver.

But this one is actually bigger, right?

It's got like a.

It looks like a shower head.

Yes, it does.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Or like a big flashlight or something, right?

So it's got a lot of little LED bulbs in this like big round.

Yes.

And so so and the round surface is maybe a little bit more than two, two and a half inches across, and it's got 72 LEDs packed in there.

You just kind of, you pressed against your face.

And

for a wand, it was not as, it didn't require the sort of the constant motion.

You could just kind of like press it against your face, lean against it.

I would sometimes do it in meetings because for research.

It's my job.

It wasn't as arduous as the solar wave.

Why do you guys keep referencing the solar wave?

We should explain what the solar wave is.

It's not a pick, but I've seen it like for years recommended on like Instagram and influencers using it on their, you know, like posts online and stuff.

The solar wave wand is also affordable.

It's also one of those things that's sort of always on sale, but we just thought it was too much work.

It has 14 LEDs, whereas the the light stem, you're looking at, you're like, I know what I'm getting here.

I'm getting a lot of LEDs.

And the solar wave, it just, it's not as much.

It's in the skinnier line.

You just have to move it around your face all the time.

Whereas, like,

I could

lean against my light stem and feeling like I was getting a lot of coverage on my face and being certain of where

it was covering on my face.

And it's a wand, so you can use it on other parts of your body as well.

And you can use it on your chest.

It was enjoyable.

It was so straightforward.

We liked that.

So if someone is debating between a mask and a wand, is it just purely like, do you prefer to sit with a mask on your face or do you want the ability to use a wand kind of on your face or maybe somewhere else on your body?

Like, how do you make that choice?

The wands are more affordable.

And I always think about it, and because I've done this so many times, where you buy the thing that feels like the bargain and then you're like only compromise and you kind of hate using it and then you get the real thing anyhow.

So, so it's like, if you're going going to spend $200 on a wand, just spend $350 on the mask.

That's my, that's my thinking.

We spoke about this when you came on talking about facial moisturizers, this idea that the most effective one is the one you're going to actually use.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, there is an argument to get a wand if you really think that you want to target other areas that are not your face, right?

Because it's very flexible and you can move it around anywhere.

Whereas like most masks are very rigid and you can pretty much only use them on your face, right?

No, because we we had flexible masks and rigid masks and then the wands.

And the flexible masks you could use elsewhere on your body.

Is it as easy as a wand?

Yes.

I mean, especially if you're using, like, if you're doing your upper chest, just lay the thing down on your chest.

Yeah.

I have like a fresh surgical scar on my arm and I did use,

I sort of tested all these products on my arm with the exception of the rigid masks because.

They don't fit my elbow.

The wands on my elbow were definitely like easier to apply, but the mask also was sort of set it and forget it.

I would just wrap it and leave it.

And I do think that I can't say which one and I can't say what, you know, because it wasn't the only thing I was doing for healing, but like my scar is pretty impressively invisible now.

That sounds like it's great if you want a device that's easy to use for different parts of your body.

You don't mind a little manual labor, sort of rolling that thing around.

Although you said it's the size, the head of it is the size of a tennis ball.

So that's pretty good coverage.

Yeah, I know.

And like, that's why it's sort of like, it felt like you could cover your face.

Cause I'm like, how many, how many tennis balls is my face?

I'm constantly asking myself.

I know.

But what if you just want to put something on and zone out for 10 minutes?

We recommended two masks.

One is a hard mask and one is a soft mask.

And so we recommend the shark cryoglow and the omnilux men.

But why is it called Omnilux for men?

What is that?

Oh, I know.

The entire time I was working on it, I was thinking about like the old secret ad ad where it's like strong enough for a man, but made for a woman.

But it's like,

the other way around.

So essentially, it's gray.

It's not pink.

Like, it literally is gray.

It's not pink.

It's for the men.

And it says men on it.

It's a little bit crazy, but germs that I talk to mention that male skin, men's skin tends to be thicker than women's skin, maybe by like 25%.

This mask has a 1072 nanometers.

That's the wavelength that is going to penetrate a little bit deeper.

Okay.

So it's just like the strongest option.

Yes, the deepest reaching penetration.

Yeah, exactly.

It says it's for men, but we tested another mask that we also really liked.

We gave it a worth considering denotation in that also has 1072.

That doesn't mention men anymore.

What's that one called?

That's the current body.

So why would you choose, like I hear one's rigid and one is flexible.

It kind of sounds like, from everything that we've talked about, what is the case for a rigid mask?

But like, just in general, why would you pick between the two?

Specifically for the cryo glow,

it was so pleasant to use.

Like literally everyone who tested it was like, when's my turn with that one again?

And this is the rigid mask.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, when you try a product and I feel like we all do this at Wirecutters, like, oh, someone thought this through.

Like someone thought through.

Yeah.

Good design.

And like comfortable, easy to use.

It's like they, they were reading my mail about everything that I didn't like about the other ones and were like fixing it before I tried it.

So I feel like that's the case for the hard mask.

If somebody was trying to decide, say, between one of the soft silicone masks versus the hard masks, is there like a decision tree?

Oh, right.

About why you'd want to choose one or the other?

It's a little bit like, how are you really going to use it?

One of the reasons why we liked the soft masks, like a selling point is if you want to like lay it on your chest, if you want to like hold it sideways and like get your neck a little bit and sort of use it as like a flexible panel.

And the hard mask was, I think it was probably more like if you didn't need that or also if you just kind of wanted to have

a very enjoyable that I think in some ways the hard mask.

especially our pick really feels like a self-care moment.

And it's not that expensive, right?

Like out of the kind of the range, how much does the cryoglo cost?

It is 350 bucks.

Okay, which is still not nothing, but not nothing.

But when you compare it to a lot of the things you could buy, it's a lot cheaper.

Yeah.

So if you're someone listening to this podcast and you're like, I actually think this rigid mask sounds great, but I want to get my neck and my chest.

I've seen some of these masks, at least online, I've seen that there are like add-ons.

Like you can buy a neck add-on or you can buy a neck, yes, you can.

Oh my God.

Of course you can.

Not mods.

So do any of these come with add-ons that, you know, you could do your neck?

What would you say to someone who is like, I want the most comfortable face mask, but I also want to cover my chest and my neck?

I would say do not get the add-ons.

One of the face masks that we tried, Dr.

Dennis Gross, they also, they sort of sell like a chest plate.

It's so specific, you know?

And again, like you can get the flexible mask and just like put it on your chest.

Okay, exactly.

So you'd say like,

maybe just get the flexible mask at that point.

Yeah.

Okay, Rory, after all this testing, are you going to continue to do this red light therapy at home now that you're done writing the guide?

Yes.

And I have definitely, I mean, I keep the light stem literally at my desk.

That is very easy for me to use and it doesn't hurt my eyes.

Okay, Rory.

So before we wrap, we usually ask our guests one final question, but I'm actually going to flip the script on you today because you've already been here.

What is the beauty trend that you hope dies very soon?

I mean, how long do we have?

Pick one.

Beef tallow.

Like,

I would say.

Are people using beef tallow on their skin?

Oh, yes.

They are.

They're claiming that it clears everything.

Yeah.

It just seems like.

Have you been to Target?

Have you been to the local drugstore?

Have you been to CVS?

And there's no option better for your skin than beef tallow.

Then beef tallow.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe like if we're all going back to the land and the apocalypse happens, that's the choice.

But like, yeah, it seems like there are better options.

Yeah.

Raise your own cows, make your own beef tallow.

All right, Rory.

Appreciate you.

Thanks for coming back on.

Thanks for having me.

As it's so nice to have Rory on the show.

She's so great.

She's a delight and such a wealth of knowledge on all things skincare.

I'm taking away from this episode, besides sort of some general knowledge about what light therapy is, that there are a variety of types of light therapy.

What we're talking about specifically with the wands and the masks, the testers found to be effective is this LED red light therapy.

And so I guess what I'm taking away is that the wand is going to be sort of on the lower end of the price range, but it's going to be a more manual experience where you're really kind of bringing this thing on your face and doing this sort of electric toothbrush type manual labor for what can feel like an eternity, but actually maybe only like 12 minutes.

And then the masks are the more kind of sit back,

maybe sip, you know, a green juice while you let the light blast over your face and then you'll look 15 again.

Sip a green juice with your eyes closed.

Right.

That is my takeaway.

I think you really need to wear some goggles.

But I'm really intrigued.

I mean, I think the takeaway is I'm very intrigued.

Very intrigued.

You both know I was already intrigued.

And so now I feel like I've honed in.

I want a mask.

I want the probably the Omnilex men.

I like the idea of having the flexible mask that I can use on different parts of my body.

But I will be going to my dermatologist first because I do have some sun damage.

And I want to make sure that the mask doesn't cause like dark spots to get darker or light spots to get lighter.

Yeah, I think similarly, I tend, I mean, I have darker skin.

I tend to have hyperpigmentation really easily and all that good stuff.

I just feel like I'm going to skip this altogether and I might just go to my dermatologist when I feel like I need it to get the professional red light therapy treatment.

Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, I think that's like very valid for a lot of people.

It makes a lot of sense.

And honestly, I think maybe the overall takeaway is that whoever is going to pursue purchasing one of these, you probably should get some consult.

Yeah, from someone you trust.

Besides us, you know,

not your doctor.

Besides Dr.

Christine and Dr.

Kyra.

All right.

Well, if you want to find out more about Wirecutters coverage in general or these red light devices, if you want to check out any of Rory's reporting, go to our website or you can find a link in the show notes.

That's it.

On behalf of my dear friends, Kyra and Christine, thanks so much for listening.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel.

Engineering support from Maddie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.

Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia BaeTube, and Diane Wong.

Wirecutter's deputy publisher is Cliff Levy.

Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

I'm Christine Sear-Clissette.

And I'm Rosie Guerin.

Thank you for listening.

I think I want the flexible one.

Yeah.

Then my man can use it as well without being embarrassed.

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