The Death of Durable Appliances

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Well, now I want to know, like, what's better about a $120,000 stove than the one that's like, I don't know, Beyonce owns it.

La Corneux.

Of course, she does.

It comes in pretty pretty colors.

Is it made of gold?

Actually, yes, it is.

Of course, it is.

Yeah.

I'm Christine Seyer-Clissette.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

I'm Rosie Garrin, and you're listening to The Wire Cutter Show.

This episode is called The Death of Durable Appliances.

Kyra.

Christine.

we're the only people in the studio today.

Rosie needs to stop leaving us unsupervised.

Actually, though, Rosie has been dealing with something that we're going to talk about today.

Her refrigerator broke a couple weeks ago, and she had to deal with it.

That sucked.

I think her refrigerator was out for like a week, which is so inconvenient.

If you have a family, you're trying to cook.

Like, what are you supposed to do?

You don't have a fridge.

I have honestly heard this from a bunch of people over the last couple of years.

I've had several friends whose refrigerators have just died.

They've come home, the fridge is dead.

All the food is rotten.

And I think a lot of people end up in a situation where they're like, do I fix it?

Do I just replace it?

There's like this whole cost analysis that happens.

And this relates to a piece that I just finished editing with our senior staff writer, Rachel Wharton, who specializes in large kitchen appliances.

I love Rachel.

She's awesome.

And she spent the last six months doing this.

very intense deep dive to answer the question of whether appliances die faster than they used to.

I need her to answer this this question because I'm so tired of hearing my parents say they don't make things like they used to.

They don't sound like that, but that's how they sound in my head.

Well,

I mean, I hope they're listening and they want to fact-check you on this.

But yeah, I think it's a common belief that people have that appliances die sooner than they used to.

And the interesting thing about Rachel's piece is that the answer is pretty complicated.

There's a lot of nuance to it.

And I think that a lot of listeners will be surprised by some of the answers.

Oh, man.

I kind of wanted it to be simple, cut, and dry, but I'm really interested to hear about this.

So when we're back, we're going to talk with Rachel Warden about some of the biggest reasons your fridge or your stove or your washing machine or dishwasher may not last more than a decade.

And a little later, we'll get Rachel's best advice for how to buy appliances that really can last decades because they do still make these.

We'll be right back.

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Chapter 1.

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Part 1.

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Welcome back.

With us now is Rachel Wharton, who is a large kitchen appliance writer who has a master's degree in food studies from NYU, where she currently teaches graduate-level food writing.

She's also co-authored more than a dozen cookbooks, and she's won a James Beard Award for her food writing.

It's so cool.

Welcome to the show, Rachel.

Thank you so much for having me.

You and I have been talking a lot lately because I have been one of your editors on this feature that we're going to talk about today.

So I hope you're not sick of me.

Oh, no, not at all.

You don't have to lie to her.

Rachel, you really have an interesting background for reviewing kitchen appliances.

You're the type of writer we're really lucky to get at Wirecutter, where you have this very deep well of knowledge about your topic.

So I'm really curious because we in our office do not have a setup where you can test big ovens and refrigerators.

So that means that you actually have to review these large appliances in a different way than most of our writers.

You're not getting everything in the office and testing.

So tell us, how do you go about reviewing all of these large kitchen appliances?

I spend a lot of time walking around the aisles at Home Depot and Lowe's and showrooms.

I cobble together by spending as much time as possible where these appliances live, like opening them up and hoping that the guy who works at Lowe's isn't going to get mad at me for taking the bottom of the GE oven out.

Every time he would like turn the corner, I'd like take it in and put it out.

And I'd open them and turn the knobs.

And anytime I visit any friend, I'm like, oh, what fridge do you have?

What stove do you have?

And I just kind of cobble it all together in that way and go to trade shows and spend more time than anyone else at those trade shows in the little showrooms they have set up.

And, you know, one way or another, I make it work.

And you're also relying pretty heavily on

research and reporting, right?

So tell us about that.

How do you find out about like durability and what people are liking and not liking about certain appliances?

I talk to everybody.

I talk to repair people and product designers.

And I talk to literally everyone I know about what they own and what they have and the issues that they find.

And I just keep my eyes and ears open because everybody has a stove, an oven, a microwave.

Everybody has these things.

So everyone is a source.

That's awesome.

I love that.

Yeah.

So you just finished this reporting on this epic deep dive on why appliances don't last as long as they used to, which I think that's something a lot of people have been suspecting.

I know that I hear my parents and my grandparents talk about it all the time, but it's not like the average person has much proof, you know?

Did you always kind of assume that to be true?

Why did you choose to do this piece in the first place after years of using kitchen appliances?

So around last year, there were all kinds of stories and consumer surveys about how appliances weren't lasting as long, according to the people who said their appliances weren't lasting as long.

And there were a bunch of consumer market research reports that said the same thing but they didn't have any background data whether it was really happening and if so why

and you know i'm a reporter and i'm like a is this even true do they not last as long and b if not what's going on and that's i just wanted to answer those questions okay so can you spoil it for us like what did you find are appliances less durable than say 20 or 30 years ago well definitely 40 50 years ago breaking news appliances do not last as long as they used to.

So people were right.

But it's not by anywhere near as long as people used to think they lasted.

Then the why is the real question.

It's not like a who done it.

It's a why done it.

Why done it?

Yes.

Every bit of this surprised me.

Nothing was what I expected to learn, which is always the case, and that's why this is fun.

One of my favorite quotes is one guy was like, everybody thinks about that one 50-year-old fridge in their grandparents' basement, and they don't remember the other 4.5 million from that period that are now in a landfill.

Right?

Lifespan has gone down, but most everyone I spoke to said it was never 30, 40, 50 years.

It was like 20 at most, 10 or 15.

So it's going down, but not by anywhere near as much as people think.

Rachel, I think one reason that a lot of people would assume that appliances don't last as long as they used to is planned obsolescence.

And that's the business practice where corporations are, you know, intentionally designing products to break faster so that you'll buy more and just kind of like feed this consumer train that happens that we live around.

Capitalism.

Capitalism, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kyra.

So

your finding was much more complex than this, right?

It wasn't just planned obsolescence, but how does planned obsolescence play into why appliances don't last?

I definitely found that planned obsolescence does exist.

And like many people, I had just assumed that planned obsolescence was truly brands making things to fail at a specific time.

But I talked to a lot of people who were product designers who worked for many, many, many different kind of brands.

And they helped me define what it really means in the industry, which is that they design products to last a certain lifetime.

So they do have a target lifetime and it's for...

the ultimate cost of the product, what they want it to cost at the end.

And they usually also kind of target the element of the appliance that's going to fail first.

So they kind of work around those two things.

So that's planned obsolescence.

They know that it's not going to last forever.

And that's how they do it.

Even though they could design these things, if they weren't designing designing for like the weakest element, they could take an approach where they make something that lasts a lot longer.

Yes.

And as part of my reporting, I really wanted to talk to like the super high-end luxury, luxury appliance makers, stoves that cost $125,000.

So I wanted to hear what they did, like how did they ensure that their things would last forever.

And I also talked to product designers who make similar kinds of appliances for the medical industry where they cannot fail.

So I knew that it was possible.

And I also talked to people who restore old stoves to learn how those are made, you know, know, to see with the same resources and tools we could make an appliance that lasted forever.

So it's possible technically.

We have the technology to make things last forever or close to it.

Yes.

But most people are not going to have access to those that.

And they cost a lot.

They would cost a lot more too.

That's right.

Most of the time.

People who study product obsolescence actually kind of break it down into multiple kinds, which is really cool.

And one of the ones that's most prescient to this conversation is psychological, which is where it's actually us.

We want the new product.

We want the new product because we think it's cool or trendy or hot.

So even if our old one still works, we're choosing to replace it with something that we want more.

That sounds like something we're all dealing with all the time for all products.

Yeah.

It's funny to put it in the light of like large kitchen appliances though, because as somebody who's renting, I'm not thinking like, oh, I want the fancy new oven, but I could totally see that allure.

Yeah.

You have to live with certain things when you rent, but when you own, you can switch it up if you want.

Yes.

And so designs are now increasingly modern.

So you want the modern look.

You don't want the side-by-side fridge that has the obviously 1997 dispenser.

Right, exactly.

Yeah, I heard from a lot of people that what's happening is when people renovate their kitchens, maybe you didn't use to replace your appliances, but now when people renovate, which happens maybe like every six to eight years in American homes, people are getting a new appliance too at the same time.

Six to eight years?

What are we, millionaires?

Well, there's no place to move, so everyone's just

renovating in their reality.

It's funny, the real estate, I've heard from so many people also how real estate is so tied to appliance sales and renovation and what people do.

That makes a lot of sense.

So beyond obsolescence, you found four major reasons why appliances are less durable.

Efficiency and safety regulations have changed the way appliances are made.

Price wars from international competition have influenced durability.

Appliances have become more like computers, which we're going to get into a bit.

And then repairability is now complicated, probably because of all of the factors we just mentioned.

So let's talk about those four points one by one.

Let's start with efficiency and safety regulations.

How has that decreased durability of appliances?

First, I just want to say that every single service technician I spoke to was like, Rachel, don't even get me started.

It's the government.

That was their immediate answer.

I was like, why don't they last as long as they used to?

It's the government.

So it wasn't until like really the early 2000s, that's when you started seeing changes.

So appliances had to meet efficiency standards, which is both the fuel that they use and the water that they use.

And so they had to do all kinds of modifications to make that happen, making them lighter weight, all kinds of other stuff.

And some of these regulations actually made appliances safer, right?

Oh, yeah.

So we no longer have pilot lights in our gas stoves burning away all the time.

And refrigerators and washing machines and dishwashers are light years more efficient than they they used to be.

I mean, now we know that hand washing dishes or hand washing your clothes uses more resources than these appliances do.

Yeah, that's so wild.

So they've, they've made appliances more efficient.

They've made them in many cases safer, but it's also meant that manufacturers have had to change the way that they make these appliances.

And in some cases, it has decreased the longevity of these machines, right?

Certain parts fail faster now, or like the materials that they use are just less repairable.

Repairability is kind of the big issue most of the time.

So for example, copper is now aluminum and all the service techs were like, you could whale against copper with a blowtorch and like completely repair it a million times and just like melt it down and put it back together.

And they were like, aluminum, you can't do that at all.

So you basically have to replace the whole piece.

What's the difference between copper and aluminum in terms of efficiency?

Like how does that make it more efficient?

Aluminum is lighter weight and lightweight is something that you look for across the board with appliances because then they require less energy to be shipped and they require less energy to like do almost everything.

Also, aluminum didn't rust the way copper did.

That move did a lot of things.

It gave them a lot of benefits.

That makes sense.

But it's just inherently not as repairable.

Like, I don't think you can repair it.

You just have to replace the whole bar.

So if you have a leak, I mean, I know a lot of people who would call repair people to come fix the leak in their refrigerator every six months and they just kept the fridge running that way.

And now that's not possible.

You can't keep your fridge running.

You would have to pay to get this thing replaced, which is expensive.

At that point, why not just buy a new fridge?

Hmm, foreshadowing.

Can you tell us a little bit about how international competition has impacted appliance durability?

Yes.

So in my reporting, people told me that there was this really big shift maybe like 2010-ish when LG and Samsung in particular, probably others, entered the United States market.

They had already sold consumer electronics, but they started selling fridges and stoves and dishwashers, and they were packed with like features that Americans had never seen before.

Like they would have a screen or they'd have like really beautiful lighting inside the fridge.

And they also would mess around with the pricing.

Like once or twice a year, the prices would be just impossibly low.

And then everyone started to try to race to actually do both of those things.

So they were racing, manufacturers were racing to have more features for less money, essentially.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And an interesting finding in your reporting is that appliances today are actually, when adjusted for inflation, cheaper than they were a couple decades ago, right?

Yes.

Almost everyone I spoke to who's in the industry would scratch their heads and they would be like, but you know, like my car when adjusted for inflation is now like $60,000 as opposed to $30,000.

And it's like the reverse with my fridge.

Many people would make the point that it's actually the same price.

You can get a fridge for $800 in 1950.

You can get a fridge for $800 now or less.

Right.

Which when adjusted for inflation, that's bonkers.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

And a lot of that has been caused because of this international competition where you've got these other brands coming in and competing with U.S.

manufacturers.

And manufacturers, what I was told was that they have to be able to meet that price and not lose money somehow.

And one of the ways you do it is you think about how your machines are made.

And then you end up making your machines with cheaper components to meet that.

lower cost.

And many people made sure to say that it doesn't affect the performance.

What it often affects is repairability.

Like you use one big modular plastic piece instead of like 10 metal springs.

I was just in a repair shop yesterday and she was showing me the element that changes the heat in your oven from the 80s and the one that changes the heat in the oven from the 1960s and the one now.

And there's increasing amounts of plastic in it and fewer pieces and they're less repairable.

Okay, so I just want to pause for a minute and sort of recap what we just talked about.

So appliances are less durable than they used to be, but they're not dying like as quickly as some people think.

Part of the reason is planned obsolescence, but that's only part of it.

There is some intentional designing these products to last not as long, but it's not as big of an issue as people might think.

And then a couple of reasons truly why these products aren't lasting as long as they used to are efficiency and safety regulations that have improved the safety and efficiency of our appliances, but have just inherently decreased the lifespan and repairability of those appliances.

And then, what we just talked about, price wars, the pressures we've felt because of these international companies coming in and selling like fancier features at less cost.

We're going to take a quick break, and then when we're back, we'll talk through the other reasons appliances are less durable today than they were a few decades ago.

Plus, we'll get Rachel's best advice for buying appliances that will actually last.

Be right back.

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Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property.

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Welcome back.

Before the break, we talked about some of the reasons appliances don't last, planned obsolescence, regulations, and international competition.

Now let's talk about the next reason.

Appliances have become much more high-tech.

Rachel, how does technology impact the durability of appliances?

Yeah, I mean, I've basically been told by everyone, appliances are basically consumer electronics.

They just also happen to like clean our clothes and keep our food cold.

How does that affect them?

I mean, we all have phones and computers.

How often do you change your phone and your computer?

Right.

The same issues with appliances.

Probably harder because they have to deal with heat, cold, and humidity.

Right.

So that's kind of like when we had Michael Sullivan on to talk about kitchen gear that will hopefully last for a lifetime.

And he was saying that like you can't really expect your coffee machine or your electric kettle to last as long as something as simple as like a cast iron skillet.

Yeah.

Or like maybe even a really nice knife set because the things that that have more buttons that deal with heat and cooling just end up breaking faster.

It sounds like the same rules kind of apply.

Yes, and a lot of times you don't even realize that your appliance has these digital computer components because you tend to think of it as being analog.

But these days, primarily because of the regulations, like a lot of the tech that's embedded started because it was to make them incredibly efficient.

Compressors that weren't just on or off, but worked at like a set speed, which requires a computer, or sensors that know how much water's in something, which requires a computer, or fancy lights that make your fridge look prettier, which requires a computer.

But we don't perceive them as being computer-driven, but they are.

And so that's a huge, huge, huge difference between an appliance you could buy, say, in 1996 versus an appliance you would buy 30 years later here today in 2025, right?

Like they are loaded with

computer boards.

And back in the 90s, even these appliances didn't have very many computer components in them.

And there's increasingly more in them because our appliances do increasingly more things.

Which we love, right?

Yes.

The problem is us.

I mean,

most of us don't want an appliance that has zero features, that doesn't have a digital timer display, doesn't ding when something's done, doesn't have lights inside the oven.

We want more efficient fridges.

We want fridges with four kinds of ice or even one kind of ice.

We want convection cooking and we want our no preheat air fry.

We want all those things.

There's nothing wrong inherently with that, but it will impact how long your appliance lasts, most likely, right?

Definitely.

Just like, you know, you get a fancier phone that has all of the bells and whistles, whistles, you're not going to expect to use it for more than

maybe like seven years, maybe seven years or something.

Yeah.

So that's a long time.

That's a long time.

I mean, you have might even still have a rotodial phone, but you can't use it to access anything because you got to go boop, boop, boop, right.

But it still works.

Same thing with an appliance.

I can imagine like now the repairs must be so difficult because it's different per appliance in general.

Yeah.

Like, do you expect that any guy that you can call up to repair your appliances has to know all these things or is he going to bring his IT guy with him?

Like, what's happening?

Exactly.

I mean, I was told by many people that the repair landscape is really broken because, you know, there might be 25, maybe more appliance brands.

Each one of them has proprietary computer boards and each one of them has a handheld tool typically that you always have to be certified to use it.

And so they can end up with like more than a dozen, two dozen of these, and then the appliances get updated.

And that's just one example of how it's hard.

Right.

So essentially, and this is kind of the last finding you had in your reporting, is that because these machines are so complex now, it's just become so much harder to fix them, A, but also it's really hard to find a technician that can actually do it.

People aren't going to be trained on all the new stuff.

Yes, it's unlikely that they could be because it's a lot of work and a lot of constant updating of what's happening inside these machines.

We kind of hinted at this a little bit earlier, but because it is harder to repair these machines now, it takes a lot of time, energy, money.

You found that sometimes it's better to just buy something new rather than have it repaired, right?

People definitely do that because you do the math, you do the math, and you're like, for just a couple hundred dollars more, I get a new appliance, I restart my warranty, it's clean, it's brand new, it has that cool new feature that I really want, like no preheat, air fry.

And at this point, service technicians are actually recommending it.

I mean, one guy told me if the cost is 50% of a new one, don't even think about it.

40%, think really hard.

And if it's a dishwasher, just go ahead and throw it away.

I mean,

what I actually see is a lot of

service folks are kind of pivoting to also sales because that's so much a part of the service landscape now.

That seems like a conflict of interest.

Yeah.

Yes, I guess yes and no.

I mean, if, you know, those paired technicians, they got to keep in business too.

That's true.

That's true.

But how are you supposed to compromise with yourself on like, you know, the the sustainability factor of it all?

What is that doing to the environment if every time my fridge goes out, I'm throwing it away after?

One of the nice things about living in New York City is we have that thing where we can actually put ours on the street.

Somebody will take it.

Someone will take it, repair it, resell it, strip it for the metal parts.

We're very lucky.

That might actually exist elsewhere, but we are extremely lucky to have that option.

Otherwise, you have to do the work yourself.

Like lots of municipalities have programs to get it to the right place.

But do not think for a second that if your big box retailer hauls it away, it's going to where you think it's going.

It's going to the trash.

If somebody does want to invest in a great fridge or stove or some other kitchen appliance that will last potentially decades, like what can they do?

What is your best advice for how to buy?

Well, you can either go high or go low.

So for most of us, that might be go low.

They still make machines that are just like the old-fashioned machines.

They have like three things that can break, and you could probably fix all of them yourself if you really wanted to.

Give us a couple examples.

What are these types of stuff?

I'm thinking like a classic white stove.

Classic white stove where there's no window into the oven, there's no timer, there's no clock.

You don't know what temperature it is.

That's exactly.

She's describing my kitchen.

I have like a slight upgrade.

I have a high point, but it has a digital clock.

Oh, that is a slight upgrade.

Mine is just an oven with a flame.

And in the fridges, you have like one little knob where it's like cold.

Colder.

That's basically.

Specifically, those top freezer fridges, right?

Like they're very, very durable.

They look the same as they did in the 70s.

Yeah.

So you could go low.

You could go for the cheapest, most durable appliances.

And those really could last you forever.

Right.

Okay.

The problem is like a lot of people don't want something fancier, right?

I know.

Hello, manufacturers.

Can you please make a version of this?

It's just like a few modifications and it would look like totally rich.

If it just looked vintage, quote unquote, vintage.

It's not that hard to do.

It wouldn't be that hard to do.

Please, here are, please.

Here are call.

Yeah.

So, what about the high-end?

High-end, things can still break.

They still have computers.

They have some features, but they're not loaded with features.

Many people said, you know, it took us four years to add an ice maker, and it was like the most basic ice maker because we're not going to cram unnecessary technology into our products.

We want them to work.

But also, they're really designed to be maintained and repaired.

Like, maintenance is a huge part of a really luxury machine.

A lot of times you pay extra to like have someone come and do it for you.

We have wolf stoves at our office and someone comes and cleans them for us so that we know that they're going to last forever.

And they're also meant to be repaired.

Like even the computer boards with all of the other stuff that you can buy, if it breaks, you throw it out, maybe you throw out the machine.

With high-end, trained tech folks will like really rebuild the board and then recertify it and it's worth it because of the cost of the machine.

So they can also last a lifetime and many people even like hand them down to their kids or their family members because they're so beautiful.

So it's kind of like the difference between buying a Honda Civic, which can be repaired by anybody, basically, will run forever.

As Christine knows, she had one for like

Toyota Corolla for $25.

Ooh, I had a Tercel.

Oh, you can also get a vintage.

You can get a vintage stove, which are all mechanical.

They're also very, very expensive and they will also last forever.

And then a couple of like the luxury ones, you can get some stripped down luxury too.

So where you're not only getting all mechanical, you're also getting that like nice look.

And when we're talking high-end, give us some of the brands.

You mentioned Wolf.

Those are like really famous for their stoves.

There's actually a whole world that I don't even know.

I mean, there's like Wolf, Sub-Zero, Blue Star,

Garland.

They start at like $10,000 for anything.

That's low.

And then they go.

And then they go up from there.

They're expensive.

If someone...

cannot afford a Sub-Zero fridge or a Wolf oven, that's just not in the budget, but they also want more features than they can get in this like super low budget class of appliances that will last a long time.

They want something that's more in the middle.

Are there any smart shopping strategies they can use to try to pinpoint appliances that will last longer?

Get the fewest amount of features that you can live with.

Maybe skip the screen and the door or the new kind of fangled ice that's cubed and squared and round and comes from three different places in the refrigerator.

You know, skip the brand new function that everybody's talking about.

And just go with the ones that you really think you need.

Because the more features, the more likely anything is to break.

The simpler a machine, the less likely it is to break.

So that's step one.

Step two, kind of, I would avoid if you haven't heard of a brand, if you're like, what is this?

That's a really good sign.

Maybe you should skip it for now.

Wait till you've heard of it.

Wait till everybody has it.

Same with new models, brand new stuff, especially these days when people are pitching new features and technology kind of the same way we hear about it from Apple and Samsung with phones.

Wait till that technology has been road tested a little bit.

I would also look for an extended warranty.

Extend that baby.

Extend that baby as long as you can.

I also heard from so many people that one of the big reasons appliances fail is that we do no maintenance.

I know we don't want to do any maintenance.

And by maintenance, it often just means cleaning your appliance, cleaning the jets on your gas stove, cleaning the inside of your oven, cleaning out the filters in your dishwasher and your washer dryer and your lint from your dryer.

We don't do those things anymore and they really do have an effect.

I heard that from many, many, many people.

Another thing you can do is read your manual.

Number one, it often tells you things that you shouldn't be doing that you never would have thought you shouldn't be doing, and then you can save it from breaking.

And number two, usually they have like five or six error codes in there, and they're like, if this happens, do this, which you wouldn't even know unless you looked in your manual.

And you can also learn a little bit more about how to repair it.

Maybe there's some things that you can fix, or you at least know enough that when the repair person comes, you know if they're headed down the right track.

Okay.

I think a lot of people, myself included, might feel a little intimidated by the thought of trying to repair their appliances themselves.

Are there resources that you found that really could help?

Things that reading a manual, maybe looking at YouTube, but things beyond those two simple things?

Oh, so a lot of folks told me that they're seeing an uptick in people wanting to repair things themselves, which

given the state of the economy, you could completely see happening.

But there's an increasing amount of resources for people who want to learn how to repair things themselves, like websites that have schematics and like a scale of whether as a regular person, you should attempt this repair.

Links to parts that you can order and other people who have fixed them.

And there's all these kind of community clinics where you can go in with an issue and people might be able to help you do it if you don't want to spend money on a repair person.

I like that.

I come to Reddit specifically for repairs.

Before we wrap, we always ask our guest one final question.

What's the last thing you bought that you've really loved?

Vintage boots.

Vintage boots.

Are you wearing them?

Pretty, cute little teal color and a tiny little heel.

I got them from one of the bazillions of amazing thrift stores that are near my house in Brooklyn.

And I took them to my cobbler, who's around the corner, and I took him like three pairs at the same time.

And he was like, you like vintage shoes?

And I was like, yes.

And he's like, mink oil.

You got to promise me you'll start rubbing them all with mink oil so that the leather doesn't crack and they last a lot longer.

He was very concerned that I wasn't protecting my vintage boots.

Very wire cutter answer.

Are you, Rachel?

Very much so.

Love it.

Well, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Kyra, are you ready to go buy a bunch of new appliances?

Oh my God, I would love to.

Just if I had, you know, $30,000 just there in my rental.

But wow, Rachel knows so much.

She really does.

That was a very interesting conversation.

I think it it really opens up how complicated this topic is.

So what are you taking away today?

I mean, it's interesting because I'm not in the market for any of these things right now, but I still love to hear it.

And it's great advice to know that when I'm eventually going to do this, I think I'm just going to go middle of the road.

You know, I'm going to get something that's moderately priced, has been around for a minute, so it's been tested and has a bunch of reviews, and just not too many bells and whistles.

Like, I don't really need a fridge with an ice dispenser.

I can live without that.

Stuff like that.

Yeah, the ice dispenser is actually something we found in consumer surveys.

Breaks really frequently.

It's like one of the things that breaks the most on fridges.

I mean, I remember that from my childhood fridge, like in the ice never worked.

Yeah.

So I am taking away from this episode this, I think it's so interesting that at the very low end and at the very high end, you can still get these very durable appliances, kind of for different reasons, but essentially they're simpler than the stuff in the middle of the road.

And I think that's really interesting.

And one other thing that was really fascinating in editing Rachel on this piece and then just even in this conversation is this idea of psychological obsolescence and how I think this is something we all fall into.

We're marketed at.

We see stuff on Instagram.

But I think I will think about that.

Like, does something really actually need to be replaced or can you get more life out of it?

Yeah.

That's really good.

If you want to find out more about Rachel's coverage on large appliances or planned obsolescence, or if you want to check out any of the products we recommended today, go to nytimes.com slash wirecutter or find a link in the show notes.

That's it for us.

Until next week.

The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel.

Engineering support from Maddie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.

Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba Itoupe, and Diane Wong.

Wirecutter's deputy publisher is Cliff Levy.

Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief.

I'm Christine Sear-Clissette.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Thanks for listening.

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