Secrets to Cheap Travel from NYT’s Frugal Traveler

Speaker 3 As the holidays approach, get prepped for all your hosting and decorating needs with Wayfair.

Speaker 2 From dining tables and chairs that bring the whole family together to extra sheets and towels that make guests feel comfortable.

Speaker 1 Wayfair is your one-stop shop for everything home.

Speaker 4 This season, transform your space into an entertainer's dream.

Speaker 8 Get everything you need to host all in one place at Wayfair.

Speaker 7 Plus, Wayfair ships everything fast and easy right to your door.

Speaker 5 Shop all things home today at Wayfair.com.

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Speaker 10 I haven't found Costco travel to be great for the other types of travel that you can book through them, but the cars are pretty sweet.

Speaker 11 Yeah, that's true. I know people that have booked their honeymoons for, you know, if all you want is like fly and flop,

Speaker 10 it's great for that. I like that.

Speaker 10 That's all I ever want. That should be my life.

Speaker 10 I'm Christine Zeer-Clissette. I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Speaker 12 I'm Rosie Garin, and you're listening to The Wire Cutter Show.

Speaker 11 Hey, pals.

Speaker 12 Hey there.

Speaker 12 Can I start off with a compliment?

Speaker 12 One of the things I like best about you guys is the extent to which you have inspired me to travel more.

Speaker 10 Oh, it's true. Really?

Speaker 12 That's a compliment that comes from the heart, but also from the fact that you guys, I feel like, are out and about. You're seeing the world, and it's really cool.

Speaker 10 Well, I wasn't able to see the world for a long time. I have kids and they were little, and then the pandemic happened, and it's expensive to travel.

Speaker 10 But lately, I feel like I've been getting to go places. Yeah, I'm kind of the opposite.
I have no responsibilities, and I love to hop on a plane.

Speaker 12 It's a privilege, and it also is a means, I think, of personal growth. We're focusing on travel a bit this week on The Wire Cutter Show, and our guest today fits perfectly into that, I would say.

Speaker 10 That's right. And, you know, Wire Cutter, we cover a lot of travel gear.
You can find all sorts of reviews for travel bags and gear to put in your bags, all of that.

Speaker 10 But what we don't cover is the actual sort of nuts and bolts of how to shop for travel, for your flights, for your hotel rooms. And these are often the most expensive things when you're traveling.

Speaker 10 So today we're going to talk with Elaine Glusack, who is the frugal traveler columnist at the New York Times. and she is really a specialist in traveling well for less.

Speaker 10 I have to tell you, I love Elaine's column. I read it all the time.
I'm always kind of like following her from afar to see where she is going and how much is she spending on this trip.

Speaker 10 Living vicariously through her.

Speaker 10 We're going to chat with Elaine about how to get the best deals on airfare, lodging, and what you should know about travel deals during Black Friday. We'll be back in a bit.

Speaker 3 As the holidays approach, get prepped for all your hosting and decorating needs with Wayfair.

Speaker 2 From dining tables and chairs that bring the whole family together to extra sheets and towels that make guests feel comfortable.

Speaker 1 Wayfair is your one-stop shop for everything home.

Speaker 4 This season, transform your space into an entertainer's dream.

Speaker 8 Get everything you need to host, all in one place, at Wayfair.

Speaker 7 Plus, Wayfair ships everything fast and easy right to your door.

Speaker 5 Shop all things home today at Wayfair.com.

Speaker 6 That's at W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

Speaker 7 Wayfair, every style, every home.

Speaker 13 As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24-7.
So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do.

Speaker 13 That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in.

Speaker 13 LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. Post your job.

Speaker 13 LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote.

Speaker 13 Promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates.

Speaker 13 And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today.
Find your next great hire on LinkedIn.

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Speaker 12 Welcome back. Our guest today is Elaine Glusack, a longtime travel journalist who currently writes the New York Times column, The Frugal Traveler.

Speaker 12 As the name implies, the column focuses on budget travel, international and domestic, travel by car, by train, camping, cruises, hotels, hostels, rentals, and much more.

Speaker 12 Well, I wish we could talk with Elaine for 27 hours and extract every nugget of wisdom you have, Elaine.

Speaker 12 Today, we're going to focus on your very best tips for scoring great travel deals this fall and winter.

Speaker 10 So, welcome to the Wirecutter Show.

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 10 Well, it's so awesome to have you here. Elaine, I have to say, I'm a little jealous of your job, honestly.
You just travel around the world and you get to write about it.

Speaker 10 So you write the frugal traveler column. You've done that since 2020.
This column has been around for 30 years, though. I'm curious, how long have you been writing about travel?

Speaker 10 And how did you end up with this gig as the Frugal Traveler?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I'm so grateful for it. I've been writing about travel for at least 25 years or really most of my career.

Speaker 11 I just basically followed my bliss, as the adage goes, and I really couldn't find a topic I liked that, you know, made me more happy and eager to get to work in the morning.

Speaker 11 Partly that's the case because travel is this huge umbrella for so many interests. You could be writing about food or adventure or art or culture or nature.
All of those things interest me.

Speaker 11 All fall under the travel umbrella. And I got the gig right on the verge of the pandemic in 2020.

Speaker 11 So the timing was very interesting, but it ended up being a rather important time to be reporting on travel.

Speaker 11 The industry was so battered, but people very clearly wanted to get out and go, which they've been doing ever since.

Speaker 10 Like gangbusters. It's been pretty wild the last few years.
Elaine, when you are writing columns for the frugal traveler, are you mostly traveling by yourself?

Speaker 10 Are you traveling with family members, a partner? How does that work for you?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I mostly travel solo when I'm traveling for work, but I also travel a lot with my family. So trips can often be sort of a business leisure

Speaker 11 blend, if you will. When I'm working exclusively, I'm trying to be really mindful of the balance between time and budget.

Speaker 11 So, I'm usually running around like crazy to get everything in, to see everything, to eat everything, to do it all on budget.

Speaker 11 You know, so I only invite my most energetic friends on my work-only trips.

Speaker 10 I feel like I want to become your friend, so but we'll talk about that offline.

Speaker 12 I want to know when you first began writing the column, what was your approach to writing about budget travel specifically?

Speaker 11 You know, there are things I want to do and things I have to do. The column covers both service and more experiential travel.

Speaker 11 So we definitely want to give advice on the best credit cards and how to score deals and the ins and outs of bidding and upgrades.

Speaker 11 But in the experiential stories where I'm traveling, I want to show people that being mindful of your money does not diminish your experience in any way. I would argue that it enhances it.

Speaker 11 I feel that you get closer to real people when you're traveling on a budget.

Speaker 11 You're not cocooned in a luxury resort like the White Lotus and the only locals you meet are the staff, which to me is a whole point of cross-cultural exchange.

Speaker 11 And I also really wanted to test drive a lot of different ways of traveling and that doing it on a budget can be like so much more interesting.

Speaker 11 So, for example, what's it like when you exclusively use public transportation to go vineyard hopping? Or what's it like to take a $300 cruise to the Bahamas?

Speaker 11 Or, you know, what's gained or lost if you go to less popular places, you know, in popular destinations like Costa Rica.

Speaker 12 How has that changed over the years?

Speaker 11 I'm much more mindful of sustainability now and the contribution that conscious travelers can have in promoting it.

Speaker 11 I think if you're careful about how and where you go, which is very much tied up with your budget, I think you do a better job of leaving no trace or at least reducing your footprint.

Speaker 11 I also fly a lot less. And when I do, I try to stack up assignments.
So I'm not just flying to England for one trip, but travel around the UK and report three stories.

Speaker 11 I'm very interested in slow and sustainable forms of travel, including human-powered trips like walking, cycling, and paddling, and slower means like trains.

Speaker 10 The thing that will usually cost you the most when you're traveling is flights and lodging. So can you break down your best advice for getting better deals on flights?

Speaker 10 Because I am a last-minute buyer. Unfortunately, Elaine, I usually buy my tickets maybe two days before I have to leave.
That's not very frugal of me.

Speaker 11 Unfortunately, it's not great for the spontaneous traveler. I mean, I feel like spontaneity is for road trips, but flights are like, you need six to eight weeks for domestic.

Speaker 12 Six to eight weeks?

Speaker 11 Yeah, it's like, it kind of kills it, doesn't it?

Speaker 10 And that's just, that's for domestic. Right.

Speaker 11 And it could be 12, you know, for international.

Speaker 11 But I will say there are some exceptions with international, like the big destinations like New York, London, you can probably go a lot closer because there's so much service.

Speaker 10 What is the closest you would do on a spontaneous trip?

Speaker 11 On a spontaneous trip? A month?

Speaker 11 I feel like that's not spontaneous, though.

Speaker 10 Do you think the same rules apply for holiday travel when you know it's going to be a really high traffic time?

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh, holidays are so much worse. And you're going to hate this answer because like for Thanksgiving, you have to start monitoring flights in August.

Speaker 10 In August?

Speaker 11 Yes. And you have to be ready to book in September or early October.
Well, that's when prices bottom out and then they'll start to rise really, really quickly.

Speaker 11 And then it's like the same sort of huge margin that you need around Christmas travel.

Speaker 11 And one little piece of advice, my favorite little trick here is when we're thinking about the holidays, I love the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas for doing the personal trip.

Speaker 11 It's a really low, like everyone's traveling at Thanksgiving, everyone's traveling at Christmas. It's really tends to be quiet the first two weeks after Thanksgiving.
I always book a trip.

Speaker 11 That's a hot tip.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that is a great tip.

Speaker 12 Where have you gone in the past during that?

Speaker 11 Oh, well, I went to France and did the Christmas markets on the Rhine. That's so twisted.
That's amazing.

Speaker 12 I was going to guess Heidelberg Christmas markets during that time.

Speaker 10 I am definitely the opposite of Cairo when it comes to travel. I just booked my husband's birthday trip, which is in March.
I'm wondering, did I book too early?

Speaker 10 I was like, oh, maybe I will be shooting myself in the foot by buying so early, like seven months in advance.

Speaker 11 Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 11 If it's a refundable ticket or not even refundable, but you can get a credit back, you could keep monitoring that flight and like see if it drops and then cancel it and then use that credit to rebook.

Speaker 10 That is a good tip. That is a totally good tip.
I will continue to monitor. I'm curious, when you are, you know, you want to go to a specific place, what's your strategy at a technical level?

Speaker 10 Are you putting in a Google alert on Google Flights? Are there other places that you're looking? You know, what are the tools that help you find the best deals for flights?

Speaker 11 Yes. And I'm not very techie.
So I just want to say, if I can do it, everybody can do this.

Speaker 11 But Google Flights is great because I always start there because a search will tell you if you're getting a good deal, a worse deal, or an average price.

Speaker 11 So you kind of want to go there and find out what you should be looking for, what a deal looks like.

Speaker 11 And then I'll go to Kayak, which is another travel search engine, and they have a little advice monitor that will tell you to buy or to wait.

Speaker 11 And then I'll set up notifications with both Google and Kayak, and they'll tell you what's happening. Is it going up or down, the flight price that is?

Speaker 11 And then I spend a lot of time playing with my itinerary. Can I go a day later or a day earlier? You know, is it better to spare myself the expense of an extra hotel night and take a late flight home.

Speaker 11 I also sign up for free notifications from a website called going.com, which is great at finding deals from your favorite airport.

Speaker 11 So I just booked a deal round trip to Toronto in first class for $300, which is awesome.

Speaker 10 That's awesome.

Speaker 10 Send me the link.

Speaker 12 I know, I will. Did Going used to be Scott's cheap flight? Yeah, it did.

Speaker 10 And it really, I've used this site too. It's super cool.
But I also have found like, I think it works best for people who are super flexible, right? Who can

Speaker 10 go on the dates that it pinpoints as having good flights?

Speaker 10 And can you pinpoint where you'd like to go? It just gives you every possible deal there is at that airport.

Speaker 11 Yeah, they just kind of look at your airport. So you might not be interested in Honduras, whatever.
Just delete that email.

Speaker 11 But yeah, every once in a while, it'll just come up with, hey, Toronto's on sale.

Speaker 10 Wow. Is there a best day to buy flights? I've heard that Tuesday nights, like at midnight, is a really good time.
I don't know why. Or like flying on a Wednesday is cheaper.
Is any of that true?

Speaker 11 Some of it is true. Like airfare pricing has changed so much in recent years and it's way more dynamic and sophisticated than it used to be.
So there's really no magic day to making your booking.

Speaker 11 But there was a thing about Tuesdays.

Speaker 10 Really?

Speaker 11 Yes, it used to be. That was the day when one person, like an actual person, went in and updated flights.
And now it's all computer driven, you know, so they can change hour to hour.

Speaker 11 But I am a huge fan of flying Tuesday, like going out on Tuesday, returning Saturday, or flying Saturday and returning Tuesday or Wednesday. Those are the lowest load days.

Speaker 11 So not only are prices better, of course, but you get a better experience at the airport and in the air.

Speaker 12 So in the vein of talking about flights, buying airfare these days can be really complicated.

Speaker 12 Even on premium airlines like United or Delta, if you go for the cheapest option, you often have to pay extra for things like choosing seats or checking checking bags, which seems egregious to me.

Speaker 12 Same deal with budget carriers like Frontier Spirit and now Southwest. So

Speaker 12 for you, do you tend to go for the cheapest option? Or do you pay more for things like refundable flights, free cancellation?

Speaker 12 I want to know because I want to know if paying less ends up costing you more in the end.

Speaker 11 I think it definitely can. And it may be different for every traveler.
I will never buy a flight I can't change. Basic economy tickets, okay, they might save you $50.

Speaker 11 But if you have to cancel, I mean, life happens. If you have to cancel, you're out the entire fare.
So I always book a ticket where I can at least get a credit back.

Speaker 11 If I have to cancel, I just have to have that flexibility. I don't know.
Maybe my life happens more dramatically. I don't know.

Speaker 12 I've run into that. I have little kids and things come up and life happens.
And so

Speaker 12 I've gotten credits that I use for the next thing.

Speaker 11 Yes. And I mean, they keep your money, but at least they are allowing allowing you to use it within a year or two.

Speaker 11 But I wanted to say when it comes to seats and bags, that I play the credit card game and I get those perks by paying with the airline's branded credit card.

Speaker 11 It's kind of a no-brainer for me because I'm based in a city that has a hub for like two major airlines, actually three.

Speaker 11 And within a trip or two, I'll have paid off that $95 annual fee through free seat assignments or checked bag fees. And like everyone else, I hate budget carriers for their nickel and diming.

Speaker 11 But if you abide by their rules, you really can save. Again, for work, I once did a $100 round trip to Vegas, which only allowed me to bring a personal item.
Of course, this was Spirit Airlines.

Speaker 11 So basically, I took like a little backpack with some running clothes and a toothbrush. And I had this great budget trip.
And it was cheap.

Speaker 11 But yes, if you're going to check a bag or you want a decent seat, you need to add those fees in when you're comparing fares with other airlines.

Speaker 11 I have another red flag about budget carriers, and that's their frequency of service.

Speaker 11 So, for example, they might have this great fare to Key West, Florida, but maybe they only fly it once a day or maybe twice a week.

Speaker 11 So, if something happens and you get bumped, it could be days or weeks before they can get you home because their flights are so infrequent.

Speaker 12 It's a good thing to keep an eye out for. And actually, we're going to have a lot more to say about the points game.

Speaker 12 We're going going to talk to Brian Kelly as well about how to manage that and figure that out if that's your bag. I'm curious, do you buy flights directly from the airline?

Speaker 12 Or do you buy flights from Expedia or Travelocity or third-party vendors?

Speaker 11 I usually buy them directly, mostly because I want more control over my booking and I'm always worried about cancellations and getting my money back.

Speaker 11 And I just feel like that's much more seamless if you go direct.

Speaker 12 Are there any budget airlines that fly internationally that you've used before or you think are worth considering?

Speaker 11 Yes, definitely. I just took Volaris, which is a Mexican low-cost carrier.
I took them to Mexico City and I had a great experience. It was super cheap.
It was under $300 round trip to Mexico City.

Speaker 11 I mean, it was more like $200. It was crazy.
The seats were fairly intimate, restrictive. And I don't even think they were giving out free water.

Speaker 10 Oh, no. BYO water.

Speaker 11 I know, but the service was professional and they dominate the route. So there's like a ton of options.
You won't get stuck.

Speaker 12 I want to pivot to lodging. What is your best advice for finding a good deal at a luxury hotel, a boutique hotel, an all-inclusive? Is that possible to do on a budget?

Speaker 11 I feel like hotels are really worth booking early. So that like March trip you're doing, you should get your hotels because that's when rates are lowest.

Speaker 11 And most have unrestrictive cancellation policies. So you, you know, you can make these early reservations without risking anything, you know, because as hotels book up, the prices go up.

Speaker 11 And if you need to change it, you can usually do that without a penalty 24 to 48 hours in advance.

Speaker 11 I don't do a lot of luxury hotels, as you might imagine, but I would say if you have a particular hotel in mind that you should sign up for their newsletter or their emails oh they often will include special offers for their subscribers or mailing list and with many hotels you can kind of scour their availability calendars and find the dates with the cheapest rates and like maybe work your trip around them

Speaker 11 and then of course always try to book in the off season or you know on the quieter days of the week which is midweek if you can when i travel with my husband just my husband will stay at a hotel but i am way too cheap to do this with my kids.

Speaker 10 I need to have a kitchen that we can cook some food in. I usually rent Airbnbs or Verbos or whatever.
I'm wondering if you have any advice on how to find the best deals on that type of lodging.

Speaker 11 Searching early is important. It's basically one-of-one inventory, right? If the one you love, you know, is sold out, it's sold out.
Also, you could consider staying longer.

Speaker 11 Airbnb and Verbo both offer, not always, but often, discounts for stays of a week or more. You can try to book directly with a host and you'll usually get a better rate.

Speaker 11 This takes a little bit of sleuthing and I did an entire column on this, but you can get around rental platforms by like scouring their sites, like looking at the pictures on their site.

Speaker 11 And a lot of people that run their own booking apart from say an Airbnb might have like a framed photograph on the counter that says, welcome to Home in the Woods or something like that.

Speaker 11 Something that you can then go to Google with, say like home in the woods in Ely, Minnesota.

Speaker 11 And like maybe their website website comes up you know if you go somewhere frequently like let's say you go visit your parents every year i would go to that host and say look i'm coming back you know would you deal with me directly and if so can i get a 10 to 20 percent discount so you can negotiate that way yeah i'm a current airbnb host and i will say that i'm always happy to have repeat customers and people who will hit me up like the upcoming weekend and I still don't have a booking.

Speaker 10 And when people ask me to negotiate price, I'm happy to do it because I'd rather have some money than no money.

Speaker 10 So I would say definitely, in my experience, it's better to go directly to a small actual host than like, you know, management companies now manage these Airbnbs and it's a whole thing.

Speaker 10 Talking to the people in my experience has always been much better. Oh, that's smart.
So I'm going to look up your Instagram for your house. I'm going to reach out directly after this.

Speaker 12 Our guest is Elaine Glusack. She is the frugal travel columnist for the New York Times.
We're going to take a quick break and on the other side, we'll get into more travel tips and hacks.

Speaker 10 Stick around.

Speaker 3 As the holidays approach, get prepped for all your hosting and decorating needs with Wayfair.

Speaker 2 From dining tables and chairs that bring the whole family together to extra sheets and towels that make guests feel comfortable.

Speaker 1 Wayfair is your one-stop shop for everything home.

Speaker 4 This season, transform your space into an entertainer's dream.

Speaker 8 Get everything you need to host, all in one place, at Wayfair.

Speaker 7 Plus, Wayfair ships everything fast and easy right to your door.

Speaker 5 Shop all things home today at Wayfair.com.

Speaker 6 That's at W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

Speaker 7 Wayfair, every style, every home.

Speaker 13 As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24-7.
So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do.

Speaker 13 That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn LinkedIn clocks in.

Speaker 13 LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that you can manage, all in one place. Post your job.

Speaker 13 LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote.

Speaker 13 Promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates.

Speaker 13 And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Find out why more than two and a half million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today.

Speaker 13 Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash wirecutter.
That's linkedin.com slash wirecutter to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 10 Welcome back. Elaine Glusack is in the studio with us today.

Speaker 10 She writes the frugal traveler column for the New York Times and has been generously sharing her most sought-after tips and tricks for traveling on a budget.

Speaker 12 That's right. I want to briefly zoom out and talk about big picture trends you're seeing in travel, Elaine.
Tourism is down significantly in the U.S.

Speaker 12 More specifically, people who live abroad are not visiting here.

Speaker 12 So I'm going to skip past the question and explanation of why and instead ask you, is this a financially good time for Americans to travel domestically?

Speaker 11 Yes. The decline of visitors from Canada in particular has really registered in a lot of places from Vermont to Florida.

Speaker 11 And of course, travelers from Europe and other parts of the world are staying away, which means there's more availability.

Speaker 11 This summer, for example, I saw a series of lodges in Alaska near Denali that went on sale in the summer. And I have just never seen that in my experience.

Speaker 11 And I have to believe it was related to tour groups canceling.

Speaker 12 That's actually really interesting. We talk these days a lot about inflation and tariffs.
It's in the news. Many people are financially strapped right now with an uncertain economy.

Speaker 12 I want to throw one other financial term into the mix and ask you about exchange rates and foreign currency as they relate to travel.

Speaker 12 What should the average person know and look for when they're considering traveling abroad and hoping to maximize the U.S. dollar?

Speaker 11 Yeah, you want to look for a currency where the dollar is strong. So, for example, if you go to Canada, one US dollar gets you $1.38 Canadian.
That's almost like a 40% gain.

Speaker 11 And I can tell you from recent experience, because I drove across Canada in August, that the prices in Canada are not 40% higher. So you're getting that bonus.
And it's the same in Mexico.

Speaker 11 You get about 18 pesos to the dollar, which goes a long way unless you're going to like Los Cabos, which has gotten really expensive.

Speaker 12 And how do you research that? How can people find out?

Speaker 11 I like the currency exchange websites that have blogs that identify these countries that have great exchange rate value for travelers.

Speaker 11 I'm thinking of currency exchange international, but also like personal finance websites like NerdWallet are a good place to look for that stuff too.

Speaker 12 So, Elaine, so far we've focused on ways of searching for, researching, and booking travel independently.

Speaker 11 But I wonder about passing that time, since time is money, off to someone else, someone who can maybe do it faster and more efficiently like a travel agent are you ever going to actually save money using an agent or an agency or are those really a thing of the past no i think there are occasions when you can save i am a diy person and i kind of enjoy all the planning and research but travel agents are especially good at high-end trips and focusing on specialist trips like if you want to go on safari or if you want to do disney right And I will say that they own the cruise market.

Speaker 11 If you are going to book a cruise, you'd be better off going with a travel agent and having them do that booking because they have access to special perks.

Speaker 11 So you might not get a better rate, but you might get an upgrade or you might get like shipboard credits. And I think they really prove their value there.

Speaker 10 So if you were thinking about specifically for a cruise for your family, are you saying you'd maybe want a comparison shop with a travel agency or a couple of them versus what you could get on Expedia or I know that I look at like Costco travel sometimes.

Speaker 10 Like I'm a member of Costco. That's a thing.
Oh boy. Yeah.
That's the yes. We should talk about that.
Yeah, we should talk about that. But just to finish this question,

Speaker 10 how would you go about shopping in a savvy way?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I always think it's having more sources of information is better.

Speaker 11 Of course, like there is sort of this time is money thing where you're like, I don't really want to look at five different travel agents. So, you know, maybe you look at Expedia.
That's easy.

Speaker 11 And then maybe call a travel agent that someone told you about or the cruise line recommended because they have these close relationships with a lot of agents.

Speaker 11 And, you know, maybe get a couple points of reference and then decide or look at Costco Travel.

Speaker 10 Well, speaking of Costco, well, let's get back to that. So my aunt and uncle actually are travel agents and they now almost exclusively deal in cruises.

Speaker 10 But they gave me this very hot tip that when they travel, they, it was actually their daughter gave this tip to me.

Speaker 10 She only books her cars through Costco travel because she gets the best deal on them and since then that's how I've booked my travel and I usually get a better deal through Costco travel have you found that are there other membership clubs that you'd recommend sort of looking at the travel perks through those membership clubs oh I use Costco all the time for car rental I don't know I just have not found better rates does that work internationally too I think so I think I rented in Canada and it was better I've never heard this I haven't found Costco Travel to be great for the other types of travel that you can book through them I'm not sure but the cars are pretty sweet yeah that's true i know people that have booked their honeymoons for you know if all you want is like fly and flop um it's great for that i like that

Speaker 12 that's all i ever want should be my life

Speaker 10 We want to talk about Black Friday. Black Friday is kind of Wirecutter's Super Bowl.
We are on the hunt for deals.

Speaker 10 We're trying to find deals for our readers, but this can also be a time to look for travel deals.

Speaker 10 And you've written about about this, but if somebody knows that they want to buy airfare or maybe lodging or a cruise, do you advise that people wait until Black Friday to look for deals?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I think the whole Black Friday season in travel is kind of like the sales bin of misfit toys. Like, you know, cruises in the shoulder season rather than when the weather is reliable.

Speaker 11 You know, there's a lot of first quarter trips. I approach it as, what can I get out of this that I know I need to plan? So like, do I have a wedding in March in San Francisco?

Speaker 11 Oh, this might be a good time to look for a hotel sale. It's a bin.
So like you have to do some digging and there are some gems.

Speaker 11 A lot of national park lodges never cut their rates, but they'll do like a one-time sale at Black Friday.

Speaker 11 So that, you know, again, if you're thinking about your year ahead, like, what do I want to do next year? Peruse the deals and see if one works for you. I gave it a shot for work.
I gave it a trial.

Speaker 11 I bought a yacht trip in Croatia just to to see what it would be like on a Black Friday sale. So I saved $400, which is significant.

Speaker 11 But I had to go in April, which is relatively chilly in the Adriatic. But I have to say that it was a great experience.

Speaker 11 And I'm pretty sure that I would not trade it for high season in the sense that we had. the islands to ourselves.
It was super unpressured. The weather was great.

Speaker 11 And we even did like a polar bear swim.

Speaker 10 So this sounds like my kind of trip. I would always take less people over great weather.

Speaker 10 So if I am just to that point of like what you're looking for at Black Friday, let's say I'm looking for a spring break trip for my family.

Speaker 10 Do you think this is a good time to kind of like see what they've got? And then if they don't have what you want, then you can buy full price later.

Speaker 11 Yeah, totally. You're just like browsing the racks.
That's the way I look at it.

Speaker 10 It's like the TJ Max's of travel. Window shopping at TJ Maxx.

Speaker 11 And every once in a while, you'll find like a cashmere at TJ Maxx and you're like, oh, score.

Speaker 10 What advice do you have for people around getting refunds on flights? If somebody is running into trouble with a cancellation, do you have any hot tips for them?

Speaker 11 This is such a topical question because things are changing as we speak. You know, when a flight is canceled, airlines are required to give you a refund.
And they're pretty good about that.

Speaker 11 The cancellation has to be on their end. And then you can decide.
You have to tell them pretty quickly, oh, I want my refund because otherwise they'll rebook you. So you have to decline the rebooking.

Speaker 11 The problem is with delays. The Biden administration defined what a significant delay was, meaning three hours for domestic flights and six hours for international flights, but it was just rescinded.

Speaker 11 And the Department of Transportation website specifically says that significant delays are undefined. So consumers, sadly, are on their own.

Speaker 11 with airlines once again when it comes to compensation for very late flights.

Speaker 12 Do you you toggle the button to pay for travel insurance when you're buying through an airline's website? Because I usually don't and I'm curious what the pros and cons of that are.

Speaker 11 No, I don't. I don't ever buy that.
You know, and they are such savvy marketers. Like, are you sure you don't want to buy it?

Speaker 11 No, because I find that a lot of credit cards, assuming you're paying with a credit card, have a lot of consumer protections built into them when it comes to flight delays, compensation for meals or hotels that you might have to book in the event of an emergency.

Speaker 11 So, the things that you might get from travel insurance, you're already kind of getting, assuming you're paying with a credit card.

Speaker 12 Okay, Elaine, while we have you, we thought it would be fun to do a quick lightning round. We'll play green light, red light, yellow light.

Speaker 12 So, I'm going to toss you some travel strategies and you let us know your thoughts. Pursue, keep away, or proceed with caution.
Ready?

Speaker 10 Sure. Okay.

Speaker 12 First one is error fares. So these flights that pop up for cheap, maybe as a result of human error or software glitches.

Speaker 11 Yes, green light, go. Sweet.

Speaker 12 Paying for subscription services that comb for deals.

Speaker 11 Oh, okay. I have to give this a yellow because sometimes they offer this free level of membership and that might be enough for you or it might convince you of its worth.

Speaker 12 How about purchasing or bidding on trips people have had to cancel? I've seen this recently platforms like Rumor or Plans Change.

Speaker 11 I guess I give that greenish. I think it's a really hard needle to thread.
You have to be so flexible to line up your dates and destinations.

Speaker 10 Okay, Elaine, we are nearing the end of this interview. And I'm curious, what is your best piece of travel advice that you've ever gotten?

Speaker 11 Don't expect everything to go smoothly. And when it doesn't, remember the worst trips make the best stories.

Speaker 10 Okay, well, before we wrap, we usually ask all of our guests one final question, which is, what's the last thing you bought that you really love?

Speaker 10 But today we're going to switch it up and we're going to ask you two final questions that are hotly debated here at WireCutter. The first is, do you check a bag or a carry-on?

Speaker 10 And the second is, are you a hard-sided person or a soft-sided luggage person?

Speaker 11 Oh my God, this answer is going to be way longer than you guys want. But honestly, I carry on mostly because I don't want a lot of baggage, like psychic baggage.

Speaker 11 I don't want to worry about stuff when I'm somewhere trying to have this great experience.

Speaker 11 I do make exception and check, like if I'm not moving around or I need fancy clothes, like a destination wedding or specific gear like skiing, and then soft-sided backpack for carry-on.

Speaker 11 But I have hard-sided wheelies in sizes for both carry-on and checking. I get all the wire cutter recommendations and buy those things.

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 12 Well, Elaine, thank you so much. Elaine Glusack, aka the frugal traveler.
We really, really appreciate getting to chat with you. Thank you for the advice.

Speaker 11 Oh, you guys, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 10 Wow, Elaine was so sweet and so knowledgeable. And I'm still like very jealous of her job.
Oh, yeah. Totally jealous.

Speaker 12 Also, I feel like I had 16,000 questions I could have asked her. Yeah.
What are you taking away from this?

Speaker 10 So I'm going to be realistic.

Speaker 10 I still don't think that I'm going to be planning ahead whenever I'm booking flights or hotels, but I really did like her advice about flying on Tuesdays or Saturdays because it's like the lowest traffic you can get throughout the week.

Speaker 10 And if there's anything that I hate more than overpaying for a ticket, it's overpaying for a ticket and then coming to a really crowded airport.

Speaker 11 So. Love that.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 My takeaway is book early in Kyra. You know, you know yourself.
So you're going to, you are who you are, and we love you so much.

Speaker 10 Yeah. So before preparing for this episode, I had never really considered shopping for travel during Black Friday.
And I will be doing that this year.

Speaker 10 I'm going to look in the discount bin and see what I might find for spring break. And then I am also going to stop booking non-refundable flights, which I have a tendency to do.
Living on the edge.

Speaker 10 I like to live on the edge. And now I'm kind of seeing the error of my ways here.
And I probably should just pay a little bit extra for the refundable flight or for you know a free cancellation.

Speaker 12 Love that. Yeah.
And the last takeaway I feel like I have to shout from the rooftops from Christine and Elaine, rental cars through Costco. Yeah.
Game change. Cool.
That's it for us. Till next week.

Speaker 12 If you like the show, we'd love for you to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. We really appreciate it.
Peace.

Speaker 10 Bye.

Speaker 10 The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Maddie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.
Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson.

Speaker 10 Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Baitoup, Rowan Nimisto, Katherine Anderson, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager.

Speaker 10 Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief.

Speaker 10 I'm Christine Sear-Clissette. I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Speaker 12 And I'm Rosie Guerin.

Speaker 10 Thanks for listening.

Speaker 10 I once got into a fight with a flight attendant on American when they were not serving water on the song. That's my line in the sand.

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