#583 - Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson

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And we've got some new tour dates to tell you about.

I'll be in Cedar Rapids, St.

Paul,

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Detroit, Winnipeg, and Calgary in the Canada.

All of those shows coming up in June, July, and August.

Theova.com slash T-O-U-R.

It's the Return of the Rat tour.

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And thank you guys so much for your support.

Today's guest is a former NFL wide receiver.

He's a commentator.

He's a podcast host and many other things.

He has a show called Nightcap with Shannon Sharp.

He had a huge career with the Cincinnati Bangles.

He's just, he's an energy.

And I'm grateful to spend time today with Mr.

Chad Ocho Cinco.

John Senko.

I were you,

find a star, I would stay in such a story.

Thanks for coming, Chad.

Do you feel okay?

We're just getting into it?

Anything you want to talk about or don't want to talk about?

Like having sex.

Get into it.

Damn.

I don't have rules.

Okay.

I'm just as crazy as you are.

Damn.

If you ask, you ready for an answer?

Ooh.

Well,

okay, Chad.

God damn, I look good.

Fuck.

I'm coming in a little dark, huh?

How dark are I?

Did y'all do a...

Is there like a.

I can smoke?

Cause you put that right there.

Found me.

Fuck yeah.

I don't think we gotta.

I mean, will that thing go off, you think?

No, not enough smoke.

Did you do F1 last week, yeah?

Yeah, I had to go shake some hands, smiles, get a few deals done.

I'm not much of a F1 guy.

NASCAR, now we're talking.

And NASCAR is where it's at, especially for first dates.

Go to NASCAR?

What?

Some of this shit.

A woman that's never been to NASCAR and you sit in the stands.

Oh,

awesome.

I got to do something like that.

I used to take girls, when I live in Tucson, I take them over to the dog track over there.

Greyhound?

Yeah.

They had a Greyhound track still?

They had a Greyhound track.

This is probably about 16 years ago.

We got the Greyhound track here, too, horse track.

I love that, man.

You got got any nice animals at the house?

No, I travel too much for pets, and I can't deal with death.

I don't have a death well.

Yeah, I wish sometimes I love to see animals compete against each other.

Yeah,

I love that shit, man.

They had a baby racing the other day at a college game.

Crawling?

Yeah.

That's funny.

I saw some sometimes when they do it at NBA games,

and the baby's crawling.

I bet on them.

You ever had that gambler?

Oh, dude, I'll fucking

put $1,100 on a four-month-old baby.

Yeah, a fast little Filipino four-month-old.

Look, look, this is dope.

I put half a rack on that bitch.

Oh, that's a

that is funny.

Dang, look at that.

One baby stalled out.

Got dementia.

Oh, they cheating there.

Stop reaching across the line.

That's what I don't like.

That's the rules of change.

And look at this look.

Damn, he's turning around.

Wrong way, wrong way, buddy.

He wants he, uh-oh, he wants a new contract.

He just hit the portal.

He's heading back to his stepdad.

Oh, they're going the wrong way.

Damn, now they got.

Ooh, that one can't handle it.

Yeah, now they got that little Filipino bad boy up top.

There it is.

That's Puka Nakua right there up top, baby.

He's about to hit the finish line.

That's funny.

Do you feel like it was probably, when you look at the players today, do you feel like it was easier for them to be able to pick up stats?

I mean, the game has changed.

The game has evolved a lot.

Obviously, from a receiver standpoint, they throw the ball much more, much more.

The era I played in, it was more about running the ball to open up the pass.

So they definitely, I mean, it's different average.

They have an added game too.

So it was a much more difficult.

And the game is a little bit more lenient in favor of the offensive side because defensive defenders really can't do anything.

You can't hit.

They throw flags for everything.

You get fine for everything.

Yeah.

I think, you know, my era and the era before me, football in general back then was the true definition of football.

I mean, it's a gladiator sport.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

Why do you think they softened up the rules like that?

Why do you think they made it like that?

Honestly, the truth.

I forgot what era it was when they sued the NFL for all the injuries,

all the trauma that players have suffered in the past.

And they won the lawsuit.

It might have been a billion or something, something like that.

And they had no choice but to.

Oh, yeah, the National Football League was sued for failing to protect players from head injuries, which can lead to CTE starting in 2011.

In 2012, a class action lawsuit was filed, consolidating over 4,500 former player cases.

So they settled that, huh?

Yeah, they won.

Damn.

Those players won, and that's why the rules are what they are today.

I know they always preach about player safety, but that's, I mean, player safety is cool, it's understandable.

But players have gotten faster, stronger, bigger.

The dimensions of the field haven't changed at all, so therefore, injuries are still going to happen.

Concussions are still going to happen.

There's no way to prevent that.

Yeah.

It's impossible.

Yeah, because that's part of it.

You can't just stop that.

It is part of it.

You know what you signed up for.

You know what you signed up when you make it, you know, as a 1% in the NFL.

It's a gladiator sport.

It's barbaric.

It kind of is a little bit of a bummer because you don't really get as many, there's not

enough

defensive cornerbacks and safeties.

They don't really get enough love then because you don't even get to know them as much because they can't play as much defense.

Does that make sense?

A little bit, but

some of them have made a name for themselves that are really good, really, really good.

The Jalen Ramseys and McDuffie, and let me see.

I'm going to think of running some of these DBs off.

Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley.

Some dudes are really good, regardless of the game changing the way it has.

Pat Sertain,

Lazaria Sneed, really good.

Jalen Johnson, good.

Young dude, Christian Gonzalez with the Patriots.

Man.

Hey, he's an animal.

Wow.

He's an animal.

And there's another young fella.

Latino right there.

Yeah, there's another young fella in,

damn it.

Horn from...

The Panthers is really good as well.

Joe Horn's son?

Yeah, Joe Horn.

Hey, he is nice.

Really?

So despite the rules being what they are, they've gotten so good technically, you know, trying to adapt to the rules.

Yeah.

That some of them stand out.

But they're just, it feels like you do, there can't be really be that beast out there that's just like clapping dudes down.

You just like, and those,

the first thing that comes to mind is

the safety or maybe linebacker from the Texans who got suspended.

I think he got suspended maybe once or twice because he plays like he's back in the old days.

Oh, yeah.

Who is it?

Al Shazir, Shazir, Shazir, something, something like that.

Al Jazeera, not him.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know how to say his name the right way.

Yes, Aziz Al Shair.

Yeah.

Oh, hell yeah.

He's an op, bro.

He plays like his.

He's Middle East up there.

He's up here doing some shit.

He plays football the way football should be played.

Hell yeah.

Hell yeah.

I got to get his jersey, man.

He's good.

He's really good.

But yeah, you don't hear there's not like that Ronnie Lott guy.

You know what I'm saying?

They just don't have those bangers.

Or like

who was the guy that played for Denver that was just a banger back there?

Steve steve at water yeah yeah steve at water bob sanders

oh he's he's old school yeah he's old school and obviously right there players should have should have slid early slide early yeah what do you think about the slide man because it honestly as a fan it doesn't even make it fun if the guy's running you know he's gonna slide

it just seems uh

i don't know you would almost rather Don't do this play or somebody get hit.

Well, not really.

And just slide early.

You know the guys are coming.

They're much faster than you, especially quarterbacks.

They're much faster than you.

And Mahomes is one who's really tricky is he'll purposely slide late to get a penalty.

He doesn't know what time.

And sometimes he'll pretend like he's going down or going to step out of bounds and stay in just a little bit, just a tad second longer.

Yeah, he's a little bit more.

Just to get a flag thrown.

So

offensive players are using the rules to their advantage, and it puts the defensive players in a pickle.

Yeah.

But it builds it up for people want stats.

People want to see the scoring.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, so I guess it's just a sign of the times.

Do you think it can ever swing back the other way, or do you think that the legal issues and stuff are going to keep it out of the way?

It will never swing back the other way because the NFL, they have to protect themselves, they got to protect the shield and protect the players, you know, on the back end.

Was it tough on your team when you play with the Bengal?

Like, I know you play with a couple of different teams, but was it with any team, is it fun for a receiver if they're running, bro?

Is it even fun?

Yeah, like you have to pretend that they're going to pass.

No, because I like to call myself an all-around player outside of just catching the balls because there were certain things I already knew I would have two people on me every time.

So that opened up the running game.

So I had no problem.

So if you open up the running game and the running game is doing well, then they have to take a safety and get him up off of me and bring him down in the box.

Now I get to, now I get to cook.

So

I look at it that way.

Do you think a lot of players look at it that way?

Probably not.

I knew I would get mine no matter what because

I was the number one receiver.

So at some point, the ball was going to get to me.

But then you have some games you go into and a team will say, you know what?

Today, 85 is not beating us.

You're going to have to be somebody else.

And those games, you know, you do the best you can to keep your composure.

It gets frustrating at times.

You know, out there just getting cardio in.

Yeah.

But you're going to have games like that.

So if somebody, if they're, if you know your team's running, right, but you still have to pretend like they're going to pass, right?

Because you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Always, always.

And I'm really, really

ever was lackadaisical because I understood what I mean to us offensively, even when I wouldn't get the ball.

Right.

Like, even if you're saying if they think they're going to have to keep an eye.

And if his eye is is over here, it's not over here in the box.

Yeah, most definitely.

Most definitely.

So I run them off.

And was that still fun too?

Even on those plays?

Is it still fun to do?

Yeah, I made it fun.

I had to because I used that time to talk shit.

Yeah.

Can you curse?

Huh?

Okay, I'm sorry.

I curse a lot.

Okay, cool.

You can talk shit, dude.

Who's the darkest dude you ever seen in the NFL, man?

Like the darkest skinned guy.

Darkest.

Because sometimes you see a guy like, damn, like, I've been even with my black friends, and we'll see like a dude that is,

and they're like, that's a good question.

My friend, my black friend be like, damn, you see that black guy?

I'm like, yeah, dude, I saw him.

But for you to say that, that's a, you know, that's a remarkable.

I'm trying to think.

I can't, I can't think.

I'm dark my damn self.

Oh, you come.

Yeah, I definitely think you come in.

People would consider you dark.

Yeah, very, very.

And I'm trying to get darker.

You know, I see you're tan.

Oh, yeah.

I used to go to the tanning bed.

Did you?

Damn it.

Damn.

Naked just to even everything out.

I like it.

Because are there parts, say if you're a, and I've never seen a, a, uh,

I've never seen a full, I don't think naked, darker male, right?

Right.

Is there parts of your body that are not as dark?

You know, sometimes I would like the chest and the neck area to match.

And sometimes it doesn't.

I don't like that because it's always covered.

I want my legs, chest, and everything one like chocolate dark gold diva willy wonka type complexion.

Yeah, like them, uh, what's them little things that they give you sometimes at a hotel somewhere nice.

The little chocolates?

Yeah, Yeah, the ones that are wrapped up.

Sometimes they're red, some of them they're blue, some of them are gold.

Yeah, the little minty.

I know what you're talking about.

What are they called?

Lador.

Oh, no.

Oh, them.

Yeah, them Lindor truffles, baby.

Damn.

I like those.

Yeah, bro.

That's what I'm saying, dude.

If you had your, bro, if they had Chad Johnson Lindor Truffle.

That's a good one.

Bro, that's an elite candy.

Look at them bitches.

They wrapped up real nice.

God, they wearing a damn, just a beautiful panty they got them wrapped in.

$70.

God, that's expensive.

Look at that.

Them Lindor changemakers, $320

for one or the package, bro, that's all I'm saying.

Bro, if they had Chad Johnson chucklets,

that'd be dope.

It's a good idea.

I got to look into that.

Have you done some business ventures?

Like, what's something you ever got in?

Because people get into something wild, you know?

Different people get into different stuff.

Joe Horn have a hot sauce or a barbecue sauce.

Remember, he went big on barbecue.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think of guys from your time

that had something.

I mean, I was a New Orleans guy, so I know Deuce McCaller had like a car dealership.

Well, for me, it would be cigars.

Oh, really?

85 cigars.

Yeah.

You have a brand of them?

Yeah.

Oh, bet.

I didn't even know, man.

6, 80, 85, a number 5, and boom, there they go.

God, boy, them bitches will give you a lung CTE, huh?

Listen, that's all I do.

I've never had alcohol.

Really?

Never.

So anytime I have a cigar, I always pair with my coffee.

I've just finished my coffee.

Yeah.

I never had alcohol.

No drugs.

Never done anything but cigars.

I'm a smoker since 1991.

Wow.

Since 91.

I smoke two or three a day.

And this is actually even when I was playing.

When I was playing, I would smoke, whether we lost, whether we won.

Because what is it?

What is it?

Just like, yeah, what is it?

Because that's a pretty kind of a real relationship with something.

Yeah, most definitely.

It's all about the taste.

It's all about the taste.

And I'm a fan of really all cigars,

whether they're mild, strong, peppery,

smooth, it doesn't matter.

I'm a cigar enthusiast.

Oh, yeah.

God, I tried to, I remember I used to work for this rich guy and I would

and sometimes he would call me in there.

He would be drunk.

And he, the other ladies that worked, I was at an insurance company.

They'd had gone home and I was just the guy who was doing the

filings and stuff and mailing things.

And he'd be drunk in there.

He'd call me to listen to him because he just wanted to just

be rich and have somebody hear him be rich.

Right.

So he was sitting there with a big cigar and fucking, he tried to get me to hit them bitches a couple times.

Man, God,

I couldn't, I just couldn't handle some of it.

I mean, my hands swell up.

One of them made my hands real straight.

I think he was smoking some shit that they had,

you know, they'd put some other shit in it at the house or whatever.

Because I couldn't even bend my hands for almost 40 minutes after smoking them bitches.

Did you inhale?

Huh?

Did you inhale?

Yeah, I tried my best.

You're not supposed to inhale.

You're supposed to taste it.

Oh, I like to hit that bitch.

It's an acquired taste.

Yeah.

And he didn't teach me like that.

He just

gave it to you.

Oh, yeah.

He was complaining, oh, yeah, something, you know, the oil or whatever.

And I was, and I did, I had to, I had to finish filing that afternoon, bro.

Like,

yeah, that's like a platypus in there.

So I can fucking figure shit out, man.

But yeah, I didn't know that.

So you never had alcohol, huh?

No, I never, I never will, man.

But did something turn you off to it when you were young?

I think it might have been my mom.

She drank?

Yeah, she, oh, did she?

Really, man, she drank like a fish, you know, morning, morning, noon, night.

You you know, and seeing her become somebody I didn't even recognize, I think that's why I steered away from it because it always starts young.

Anytime you have a habit that you stay away from, you have the discipline to do it.

Most people say, oh, you're so disciplined.

No, say, no, I'm not.

I saw something in my mom when I was younger that let me know, you know what, I'm not going down that path.

And I just never did it.

And did she, is she still alive?

No, she passed away from alcohol poisoning.

From cirrhosis of the liver.

Yep, 2021.

I never forget.

And I knew that I got that phone call.

I got that phone call and I knew something was wrong because it was family members calling.

Family members never call, especially like that back-to-back from different family members.

And I kind of already knew what it was because my brother had already called, so I already know nothing's wrong with him.

Right.

And

I had a feeling what it was.

And say,

come down to the house.

Your mama's, she's passed out.

They couldn't even open the door.

She was right there, right there by the door.

And obviously the autopsy came back and

she passed away.

drinking drank herself to death that's my baby though thanks for sharing that yeah man i uh you know i've been in recovery and struggled in over the years from drinking and a lot of my friends you know it's part of it's part of a lot of people's universe these days yes sir what uh and how do you try and i even have a family member we try i've done intervention and stuff did you guys ever try to do something like that is that hard as a son because i bet it's kind of tough with a parent because they're kind of you still have to look up to them it was it was very difficult and it was so difficult that i couldn't do it and she wouldn't listen to me you know you can lead a horse you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink so she has to want to get the help herself they can't drink alcohol yep they listen and so i even went as far as we were on marriage boot camp but it was family edition i think it we tv i forgot what it was there's a show that you did yeah so her and i it's all about um

a mother and son or a mother and and whatever a family member it was you're trying to mend the relationship and whatever issues you have so i took her on there and Moy, she cut a fool.

She cut a fool.

Oh, she didn't want to be.

She cut a fool.

Obviously, had alcohol out.

They had all this stuff.

And it was her and I, you know, two weeks, two weeks straight.

We went through different activities.

They had two therapists, two doctors there.

And there it is, right there.

And man.

Oh, she's beautiful.

What's her name?

Paula.

Paula Johnson.

We call her Hurricane Paula.

Category 85.

When she gets upset, it's a hurricane.

It's a hurricane.

And listen, she showed out in that show, man.

That's my baby.

She showed out, but she just wouldn't.

She left the show early.

She didn't even finish the show.

She left early.

Cuss the producers out.

Cussed the rest of the cast made out.

She didn't want it.

Nah,

she didn't want to get the help I wanted, man.

But that's my baby.

There was a funeral scene we did.

There was a funeral scene we did

where she was like,

close the casket.

So it was me in a casket.

And how would she feel if I was to pass away?

Oh, man.

She showed out.

Oh, she showed out.

Close the caskets.

Let his baby mamas roll him in.

Oh, it was hilarious.

Oh, she made it funny?

Oh, man.

No, she was dead serious, though.

Oh.

Oh, she was pissed.

She was pissed.

So that was the introduction.

Close that bitch and let his baby mamas roll his ass up out of here.

Yeah, yeah.

And so people were.

That's hilarious.

Yeah, the world was introduced to her.

It did.

She didn't play.

Do you want to talk about that?

That look alone, she didn't take any bullshit, huh?

No, she didn't play.

Doesn't work.

But did did you get that?

I meant that.

Watch this, listen.

I haven't been a part of his life, and he hasn't been a part of mine.

He got his kids and baby mamas.

Line him up.

Let him roll his ass out.

You said you wanted to close the casket earlier.

No, you close it.

I don't work for the funeral, huh?

All the children come close.

Sit down, Paula.

Sit down, Paula.

Never.

Leave nothing.

You could never tell Paula today.

She's a legend.

Oh.

She's a legend, especially in our area.

We have a thing.

You're not really a friend of mine if you haven't been cursed out by my mom.

That means you ain't been around long enough.

And that's how she was.

And we loved her just like that.

And I never got a chance to say goodbye.

Oh, I never got a chance to say, I love you.

But I had the messages save

before she passed away.

And it's her cursing me out.

Yeah.

I mean, letting me have it, letting it rip like paragraph, paragraph.

Oh, yeah.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

Yeah.

I wouldn't want any other way.

Because that's who she was.

That's who she was.

That's fair.

I have a family member.

They'll send me like some of the texts they send in caps and mojis things don't even make any sense they'll be the i can't even read it yeah i'd already know what it is right but at the same time that's who they are you know yeah you have to love people where they're at it's tough though that's a tough time i think so many people deal with that how do i love a family member that's struggling you know because you can even give them things i mean even if you're able to provide then yeah and the funny thing about it is is i had to stop the bleeding as well Because an individual like that, they will use, oh, I'm your mama as a reason for you to keep giving, giving, giving, giving.

And a taker doesn't know when to stop.

It doesn't know when to stop.

And there was no appreciation behind it because no matter how much I did, it was always an issue.

So even at that point with mom, I even had to deal with her from arm's length at a distance, you know?

And

it was cool.

My grandma raised me, so her and I weren't really eye to eye most of the time.

But man, when the times were good, oh man,

they were good.

But when it was bad, I know.

Oh, we talk talk about entertainment.

Like her see, her being on that show was able to introduce the world to who Hurricane Paula was, and she was TV gold.

She was TV gold.

Oh, dude, that little bit right there.

It almost reminds me of

that woman, New York, when she was at her best.

Remember?

Yes.

When she was at her best, though.

Like her best moments remind me of something just like that.

Oh, that's interesting.

And at least you have that, at least you have that also, a moment of you guys' time together, you know, to look at.

I bet she was super proud of you, though.

Was she able to express that to you?

Yeah, absolutely.

She was proud of all the things I was able to accomplish, you know, obviously during my days in

NFL, all the stuff that I did off the field.

But she was so unpredictable.

I couldn't take her to important stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Because, you know, red carpets, stuff like that.

I couldn't have her in those rooms because I don't know what Paula was going to show up.

I didn't know which mom was going to show up.

And I didn't want her to embarrass me in those moments, moments that would be, we're supposed to be celebrating, whatever achieving it may be.

But listen, if the wrong person is there and she sees she might snap yeah it doesn't care about their surroundings or the environment

so i had to be cautious she'll get a pass interference she'll get a defensive pass interference call quick and don't care

and don't care yeah

wow dude that's so interesting because that's also it has to be wow because that's where you obviously got a lot of your

banter and ability to accept things even if they're in a dangerous space yeah

to keep because one thing that's interesting i think about you chedd and this is kind of it may be judgment but it's just me kind of from the outside outside perspective is even if things are chaotic and crazy for other people you're still able to have this sense of humor that things aren't even not that it doesn't matter yeah but that it's not affecting you yeah i have it's i think because of my upbringing and me being able to operate well in a chaotic environment and i'm very comfortable being uncomfortable very it doesn't matter what's going it doesn't matter what's going on I love chaos and I operate well in chaos very well.

It doesn't matter what it is.

Now, will you also create the chaos just to then slide in and operate in it?

Yes.

Yes.

Think about during my time playing.

Yeah.

I was very chaotic.

I purposely tried to piss the NFL off, purposely, because I understood the game is an entertainment sport.

So therefore, I'm going to bring just that, the entertainment value part to it.

They didn't see it that way, but all of a sudden, everything I was vilified for now is a green light.

Everybody's celebrating.

Everybody's having fun.

Good point.

I understood what I was doing.

And look where you're at now.

You're in a space where you're still entertaining, right?

Still going.

Still going.

So, in a little bit of a way, you're kind of before your, you're kind of before your time with that.

Yeah, wait.

And it takes, it takes other, it's even like with podcasting.

At first, they thought podcasting was crazy.

These people aren't doing shit.

They're out here doing, we got networks, we got all of this.

And then you know as well as anybody.

I mean, half your times when you're doing shows with Shannon, you're just sitting there on your phone or computer.

He's in a studio sometimes, but sometimes you're showing up from wherever.

Yeah.

From your home, you just tapped in off a laptop.

And that's a, that's, you know.

Yeah, I started the podcast thing early, too i think in 2010.

let's go tara lowens and i had a show called the teocho show and that was that was the first form of podcasting in a sense i think that that that there ever was dude i remember so i lived in la for maybe 11 years i remember i went one time i was meeting some girl i think i met her off the internet or something but i was gonna take her

She's like, will you take me shopping?

And I was like, fuck.

Shopping?

I know.

And I was like, yeah.

Is this before or after sex?

This was before sex is before a handshake.

And so, but I knew I wasn't going to take her anywhere.

Nice, you know, I was, but I still wanted to, I think I was just susceptible.

Right.

So, I'm like, where can I take this girl that's not expensive, but American apparel that has HM.

Right, right.

So, that's kind of the district I took her in, right?

Anyway, she's looking at shit and everything.

And I saw Terrell Owens and Macaulay Culkin having lunch together.

That's dope.

God.

And it was beautiful.

It was almost like seeing a

Loch Ness Monsters or a Sasswat.

You know what I'm saying?

Who would ever see that?

You know, so something like just sometimes you see certain groups of people in the wild.

It's just beautiful.

But

what made T was it was T, because you guys were also teammates.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was in Cincinnati at two points.

Was he as entertaining?

What was his?

Absolutely.

And I got to think, we were friends before that.

I remember I stood on the table for tea and I knew we had an opportunity to get him.

So I talked to Marvin Lewis.

I talked to Mike Brown.

I said, we got to get T in here.

We got to get T in here.

As much as I've accomplished here as a Cincinnati Bengal, can we please get one of the greatest players to ever play

top three all time, no matter what?

I have no problem taking a back seat and being here as Robin.

Really?

Oh, absolutely.

With nothing but respect.

So I couldn't wait.

And T and having T in that locker room and watching him practice and having a great understanding on his approach to the game of football, man, that was.

a treat.

And I think it's a treat.

I've never had a chance to actually sit there and tell him how much I admired him in general as not only a player, but his approach to the game of football.

And I got a better understanding on why he's one of the greatest of all time.

Yeah, man, it was a joy.

Was his approach?

Like, what made it so special?

His approach.

I know.

I mean, there's rumors that he sleeps in like a barbaric chamber or something.

All of that shit.

He's sleeping in like a hollowed out missile or whatever.

I'm the complete opposite.

You know, T.O.

was very massage's, hyperbaric chamber, ice tub, cold tub.

He eat right, salad, all this stuff I didn't do.

And I'm McDonald's, cigars, complete opposites.

Live totally different sides of the spectrum.

So it's just

being around a man, it was such a joy.

And I was a sponge.

And he doesn't even know it.

I took as much as I could from him in that moment, you know, in that year I had with him.

And still to this day,

very good friend of mine, man.

Very good friend.

Well,

I've never gotten to meet him.

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Yeah, some things are interesting, like if you game, like if you, if you get like some popularity in your life or something happens, you get to meet different people.

Well, it had to be crazy in your world because you kind of go from a college, right?

And I know you went to SMC.

I went to SMC.

You did?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was the SMC.

I went to SMC.

Yeah, man.

The SMC was wild, bro.

Yeah.

Because there was nowhere to fucking park.

So, dude, it was like, I would drive to school.

And if I didn't park, I wasn't learning.

That was it.

I took the bus.

Yeah.

I took the bus down.

Bus down Pico.

I never forget.

At that time, I had a young lady I was dating.

She lived in the jungles.

across from Dorsey High School, right off Coliseum in the third building.

I'll never forget.

And I would take the bus.

I would take the bus to the school.

What was that like playing?

Because that was a community college, but it was probably a really good program they had.

It was the best that they could have.

It was good, especially back then.

Obviously, Steve Smith Sr.

He was on the team with me.

And I needed that.

I needed to get out of the environment out here in Miami to because this is where he started out at.

Yeah.

With AB.

Was AB running when you were running?

Well, he was a little younger.

Yeah, AB.

But didn't you hear about him or no?

Yeah, I watched him in high school when it was at New Orleans.

Yeah, I've been watching AB for years.

And his dad was also from Miami?

Troy Brown.

I'm not sure.

Was it Troy?

Touchdown Brown.

Who is that right there?

That's Eddie Brown.

Touchdown Eddie Brown.

That's A.B.'s daddy.

His father.

That's A.B.'s dad?

That's his dad.

Serious?

Yeah.

His father had the most touchdowns.

He still holds a record, I think.

For arena football.

Most touchdowns in arena football.

Wait, that's his dad for real?

I didn't know that.

Touchdown, Eddie Brown.

Wow, that's dope.

But I don't know how many siblings and stuff he has.

He gets put on the CTE bus bus a lot.

He gets put on that baby bus.

Do you think that's true or do you think it's...

Nah, I think he knows what he's doing.

And he played into the CTE thing real well.

And, you know, his CTE, his CTE, SPN.

Hilarious, dude.

Hey, it's hilarious.

It's hilarious.

And he's kind of bridging a little bit.

He does a little bit of racial bridging, kind of.

Yeah, a little bit.

Because he'll call people, you know, he'll call some guy crack or some guy the N-word.

He'll mix it.

He'll call it Asian the N-word.

There's no.

He's in a space right now where he knows what he's doing and he knows how to get that traction.

He knows how to get that reaction.

And I cheer him on because I do find that it's interesting where he's at.

And I hope he can figure out the best way to manage it.

I mean, look at this.

Hey, listen,

he's on a historic run right now.

He's on a historic run in his own lane doing what he does.

I love him to death.

I love him to death.

Obviously, a friend of mine before football.

Oh, really?

Yeah, before football, yeah, this goes way back.

And that's someone I will always support, whether it's up close, whether it's from afar.

You know, his decisions that he makes, you know, that's him.

He's a grown man, but it's one thing about him.

I'm going to always love him.

No, that's nice to hear, man.

Yeah, I will say this.

There's something extremely lovable about him, right?

Yeah.

It's like...

Whatever he does or what he's like, anything he's saying, like him as a person, he has such a

warm energy and smile.

And now I I haven't seen like a darker side of him.

There may be, I don't know, but he's got such a smile that it's like you want to get on, you want to hear what's going to get, what's going to happen with him.

Yeah, he's very interesting, very, very unpredictable.

Unpredictable.

That's what makes it so awesome.

Because you don't know what the fuck, excuse me, you don't know, you can curse.

You can curse.

You don't know what the fuck is going to happen next.

Because I don't even think he knows.

He might know, but you're like, I'm going to ride with him even if he's.

Listen,

everything AB does right now is

strategic.

It's strategic.

It's planned planned out.

And he's two steps ahead of everybody else.

I love hearing that.

Yeah, Belichick really opened the portal with dating a young lady, man.

Yeah.

I mean,

listen, yeah, I had an opportunity to work with Bill this past season on NFL Films.

So Bill was there with me and Ryan Clark and Chris Long.

And do you get to meet his girlfriend then?

No, I don't.

No, no, I didn't meet her.

I didn't meet her.

I think she might have seen her once.

I mean, people are over, they're almost overshadowing his acumen and what he's done with her.

You know, the media will do that a lot of times.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean,

Bill is Bill.

Bill's going to be able to do what he wants to do.

His resume speaks for itself.

And I'm excited for Bill, obviously, and what he's going to do turning that UNC program around and getting another opportunity to coach at the NFL.

Now, what he decides to do with his personal life,

that's one thing I stay away from.

You know, I always stay away from stuff like that.

Yeah.

Did, yeah, because I'm trying to think, because my dad was 70 when I was born.

My mom was 32, right?

So, okay.

They had, what is Bill's difference in it?

74 and 23, right?

So, yeah, I mean,

you know, I didn't love having an old dad.

If they had children, I don't know if I loved having an old dad because, you know, it's like a limited time offer.

You know, every time you see him, that shit is the clock is, you know,

oh, the clock is ticking.

Heaven's going to make a draft pick, you know?

So you start to see that 49-year age gap.

But who knows if they're in love.

Yeah.

Listen.

Love who loves you.

Love who loves you.

That's all I can say.

Do you feel like it's risky?

Like with athletes and stuff, there's a lot of like, you know, there's a lot of potential for to get

into sticky situations because a lot of athletes, they're,

you know,

people know that they have money.

Yeah.

They're in great shape, you know.

It seems to be like it happens more often than not these days.

Most definitely.

Most definitely.

I mean, you got to be cautious.

You got to be wary and always understand that,

you know, sometimes most of those that you'll deal with, most of those who will deal with you, it's because of what you can do and not who you are.

How do you try and figure that out?

Like,

you don't think?

You can't figure it out because

you always have to lean into it with that same thought process.

Like, what are you saying?

You have to understand, especially when you have money and you have things going on for yourself, would you be able to get the same girl that's with you now if you didn't didn't have it?

Nine times out of ten?

Absolutely not.

Not that's just, that's reality.

I don't know.

And

that goes for any and everybody, you know, like that's just life.

That's just the way it is.

If you lost the ability to provide, the woman you're with right now, would she still be there?

And that's probably for any man, really almost in any space.

Period.

If you lost the ability to provide.

Yeah.

Period.

Or do the things or give her the lifestyle that you've been able to.

What was she doing before you came along?

Yeah.

And look what you've done with that certain individual that you're with, you know.

And depending on how much money you have, your leash is very long.

And when things hit the roof, most of the time when she leaves you, she has to take that money with her to continue that lifestyle.

Oh, yeah, that's a tough spot then, because your money is going to get kind of

divided up.

Yeah.

Do you have, you have a lot of, you have a decent amount of children?

Yeah, a lot, 85.

You have 85.

Is that your goal?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you got to get.

That was my goal.

But then also, the people I've had kids with, we were all on one accord.

I only dated women that were athletic.

I'm not having kids just to have kids.

Oh, so they have some strategy.

Yeah, there was strategy behind mine.

I don't care about you being a bad bitch.

I don't care about you being on IG with your ass out.

And no BBLs.

I mean, that's fine.

Whatever you need to do to feel better about yourself.

I'm fine with that.

But I needed and only dated women that were athletic.

So my kids had a head start on that foundation of athletic ability.

That's it.

So I look at women, I look at ankles.

Yeah, because I look at some track.

Do you see some of them track women?

Yeah, my daughter runs track at University of Kentucky now.

Oh, really?

Y'all live in Nashville, man.

That's not far.

For real?

Yeah,

if you go up to see a meetup, come up there and meet up with you guys in Lexington?

Yeah.

Dude, that'd be awesome.

Yeah.

Because I bet they also run against LSU.

I want Tell SU.

If they run against LSU or Vanderbilt,

dude, that'd be sick, bro.

I'll come up there, man.

Yeah.

And I don't have, I never really have this.

There she is.

Yeah, this is when she was young.

And she's good, huh?

Oh, yeah, she can go.

She can go.

She can't beat me, but she can go.

Do you think she'll be able to beat you at some point?

Absolutely not.

Because before my any of my kids,

listen, before my kids beat me in anything, I would trip her.

I'm just being honest.

I would trip her before she beat me.

Exactly.

Not happening.

Not happening.

Dang.

So you, so was her mother athletic?

Absolutely.

Yeah, dude.

You see those track track ladies?

All of them.

Did you cheer?

Did you play volleyball?

Did you run track?

Volleyball, yeah.

I mean, just I just need to see.

When you cheer, sometimes you get these little nuggets.

They get them little Mac nuggets out there.

But I know, I can tell.

Because when I go on dates, I like to go places where you have to show me athletic ability.

Go to Dave and Busses.

Can you shoot?

Now, if you don't have no form and can't shoot, I can't do nothing with you.

Go bowling, go roller skating.

You know, that's a good thing.

So, I hold my own

roller skate, baby.

That's ice skating for black people right there.

That's what that is, dude.

The combine.

I hold my own combine.

Oh, yeah.

They think we're going on dates.

Little do you know, I'm really, I'm taking notes.

Okay, you can bowl.

Okay, you don't really have any coordination skating, but I can work on that.

Come on, Chase.

Go to the gym.

Oh, check.

Gym date?

Oh,

please.

Take him to the gym on a second date?

Yeah.

Yeah.

First date, Dave and Busters.

You know, check out coordination.

Let me see how your lateral movement is.

That's, hey, Theo, you laughing.

That shit is important.

No, it looks like, listen,

some of these guys.

No, that's a good point.

Yeah, they date women.

Oh, she's so fine.

She's on IG Live.

She fine as hell.

Blah, blah, blah.

You have a child.

Your child got two left feet.

And you wonder why your child get picked last in PE.

Yeah, your child out there.

He's swimming a little circle.

Yeah.

Oh, they come home sad.

Nobody picked me.

Nah, fuck that.

Yeah, fuck that, dog.

Yeah.

If she can't play kickball, I'm out.

Oh, dude.

That's because that's a good test of a lot of different sports at once.

A lot.

Run and kick it at the same time.

You know how hard that is to do?

Very hard.

Coordination to be able to run forward and kick

in rhythm.

Yep.

That's the fucking Mozart of athletics to me.

Boy, kickball shows you a lot.

Yep.

Absolutely.

That's what I'm saying.

But there's a lot of traps.

A lot of people don't think like that.

Because you have to think, too.

Like, do you, so do you think, do you think a lot of men, because I feel like a lot of,

let me get this right.

So in the NFL, they got a lot of guys, it seems like, who want to have a lot of children, right?

Do you think that that's true?

No.

I think at times...

Like, is that a stereotype?

With black, you get caught up in the moment.

Do they have a lot of guys who want to have a lot of children?

There are a lot of white guys too.

They have a lot of kids as well.

Yeah.

But I think we just get caught up in the moment most of the time.

And I think our counterparts, on the other hand,

they have a little bit more, a little bit more discipline in that area.

But I think they're not as bad as us, but also they're...

What do you mean our counterparts?

I mean, white guys.

Okay, so white guys versus black guys yeah

i'm not even looking at it like in a i guess i am looking at obviously in culture right i'm not really looking at it in race but i'm looking at it in culture right so i'm thinking in black culture is it more of a thing to have it happens it happens a lot because we get caught up in the moment okay we get caught up in the moment now i i'm one who who's one of those and y'all like to spike the ball yeah but for me everything i've done was strategic and not done on purpose there was a method to my madness There's a method to my, nobody's, I'm not having kids, nobody's running to child support and old chat.

No, no, because we all had one end goal.

You understood what it was.

And I also had kids with people that I've known before I even made it.

So there were no ulterior motives like most have when you meet them once you've already had money.

Yeah.

So it's going to be some thought at the equinox or something.

And you have a child and the first thing you wonder why things don't work out.

Yeah.

Not things most times don't work out.

But no, it's like, yeah, you don't know who you're, you don't, you're putting yourself at risk.

Yeah.

So you're saying instead of risk, straight, you have more strategy.

Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

Most definitely.

Most definitely.

Yeah, because I just wonder, sometimes I wonder in black culture, do they view, do black men view the world differently?

Like, is there a, do they view it more as like a, I'm a king and this is my castle?

Nah.

I don't.

You know, that's just how I wonder sometimes.

Or like, yeah, like, is there a strategy sometimes?

Well, I gave, I gave you mine.

Right.

And I've always lived by that, no matter who it was.

I don't care how fine you are.

I'm not here to raise models.

I want athletes.

So therefore, I'm going to procreate with those who give me just that.

You might be able to do that.

Listen, you'll

have fun and go on dates and yeah with those who who are not that but when it comes to having kids oh oh honey uh-uh i don't care how fine you are

yeah yeah yeah you got a kid your kid walking at three weeks running yeah four

yeah for his first birthday you get him a hurdle

um do you think what else am i thinking about

do you think uh

Do you think there's a lot of gay?

They just had a guy they were talking about, a gay gentleman in the NFL.

Do you think there's more gay men in the NFL that we just don't know about?

Absolutely.

And they're afraid to say it.

They probably don't want to.

It make people uncomfortable.

And the media would make it a big deal.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm sure it is.

I'm sure it is.

And

I wouldn't have a problem with it, you know, because I'd be the one making jokes.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'd listen.

I'd be the one making jokes.

I don't care what you are.

Gay, trans, A, B, C.

I don't care.

I'm accepting of all.

Yeah.

And I would have to be a little bit more.

But yeah, I would still kind of cut up on them.

Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And it's probably for the best because if you get some good jokes going, that's the thing about joking all the time.

It's like they tried to make joking a crime over the past like 10 years.

Everything is, everybody's very sensitive.

Yeah.

That's one reason I like AB is because he just,

you know in his heart.

that he probably doesn't have a lot of malice in that world.

Right.

But he likes to have fun.

You know, that's one thing I think that black culture does better than white culture does is tell jokes.

Dude, if you get around and you start clowning on somebody, but you're right there with them.

They know you're supported.

Yeah.

But man, that's

and then you know the next bullet is coming right.

The next time they get a chance, it's coming for you.

Yeah, most definitely.

That's the most fun, dude.

Yeah, I don't know why people are, they call it homophobic.

You know, I think.

And I think that's one of the reasons a lot of players don't want to come out, you know, or people in general that might swing the other way.

I mean, shoot, it just it is who you're living your truths.

And plus, they got some gangster gay dudes out there, bro.

It's not like the gay dudes 20 years ago.

Oh, yeah, yeah, everybody was feminine.

Nah, yeah,

they got this, whatever, they got drawing a rainbow bright or something.

They got gay dudes to beat your ass,

literally, literally.

Listen, I've always been fond of that community.

They've always showed love to me, and I've always showed love back.

Oh, yeah, they got some severe gay dudes.

That's a song right there by Eves.

I didn't know they had this song.

I never, I never heard this.

Who sings that?

That's great.

Yeah, it's funny.

It's funny, especially where we are in the world right now, that some people, based on occupation and based on what you do, you really can't come out because it can jeopardize what you have going on but it feels like the only place that is kind of well maybe there's i'm sure there's probably like some like

probably farming communities like uh

you know i bet there's probably farming communities and maybe the in and maybe athletics but i don't know in women's athletics it's accepted oh it's accepted yeah it's probably just in men's athletics do you think that there's a if you took the gay players from all the team you think you could make a you think you could make a gay team in the nfl no probably not so you don't think there's enough gay men to make a team?

No, no, not that many.

Which division do you think in the NFL probably have the most gay players?

I have no idea.

That's a good one.

I have no idea because I don't know everybody's preference.

Right, but if you had to guess, even just by looking at some of the, let's pull up the, just pull up the

that's the funny thing about you can't look at somebody and tell.

No, you can't, but I'm just saying, look at some of these records, though.

The Cowboy, broad.

That's last year, no.

No, no, no.

Oh, okay.

Hey, that's a good one.

I mean, to be able to statistically rate how many people would be,

you would never know.

Right, you would never know.

But it's fun to

be friends.

But I will say this.

I think it would be great if they had a gay team.

You think so?

Yeah, because you know how many people

support them?

Oh, it would be huge.

People always want the underdog, right?

They always want the underdog.

Would they really be the underdog?

That's a good point.

Would they really be the underdog?

Right, but I think they would be billed as the underdog.

Right, just in general, right, in general.

That's a good point.

Now, that's a fair statement.

Would they actually, physically, incapability be the underdog?

No, we have no idea.

Right.

Because we don't know what the team is, but

I think they would get billed as this underdog, which would give them a chip on their shoulder type of mentality.

You know, I think it's one of the same reasons why you see, like, oh, they have a national gay football.

They got a squad already.

I'm telling you, bro, we're getting close.

And everybody throw with their left arm in that thing, boy.

God, look at that.

I didn't know they had that.

Oh, I bet that's hype.

Dude, I went to the women's

blingerie bowl one time.

I remember lingerie football used to be huge.

They hit each other.

They go crazy.

I've seen some of the clips on Twitter.

And they were beautiful, too.

Gosh.

Yeah.

I like the outfits.

God, yeah.

I like the outfits.

Shoulder pads, legs, breasts, knees, everything.

Head, arms.

Oh, yeah.

God, that shit was nice.

Yeah, right here.

And

they talk a lot of trash.

They talk a lot of shit right there.

They'd be like, bitch, I'm going to knock your ovaries out.

Gangsta shit like that.

This is dope.

I'm going to knock your nipples off.

That says shit like that.

I wonder, do they still, they don't have this anymore, huh?

I don't know.

Have you ever considered investing in a type of athletic league?

Nah, nah.

No, I will stick to the things I know, and

that is cigars.

Yeah.

Cigars and kids.

Those are my investments.

Okay.

Do you think they have one last question on gay players?

Do you think they got enough?

Oh, Ocho, tell me this.

Do you think they got enough gay players

in the NFL to beat

the Jets?

Be real with me, OJ.

I have no idea.

You would have to go by position.

Is there

one gay player at each position that is one of the best in the game at their position?

But even then, I'm not sure.

The Jets, obviously, looked bad last year.

Ain't no telling.

Ain't no telling how they're going to be this year now that they have a quarterback in Justin Fields.

So we'll see what happens.

That's a good question.

I would like to see that happen.

I like that hypothetical.

Thank you, sir.

I would love to see that.

And who would I even cheer for, Nat?

I would cheer for the gay team.

I probably would, too.

Yep.

I'd be out there.

Shit, I would coach them.

I waterboy them dogs.

I'd be out there waterboying, dude.

We got

a little bit of zest sauce for everybody in the huddle.

How tough is it for a player if you're going to a new team, if you know that the quarterback hasn't had a ton of success?

Is that a tough spot to be in?

How do you manage your expectations?

Like,

you know, you're going to a team where,

you know, maybe you leaving a team that had like a Drew Brees or a Tom Brady, right?

And you know the balls are coming, right?

And you know they're going to be in a vicinity where you can catch them, and you know there's going to be 30 passes a game.

And then you get into a spot where

you're at a quarterback that's going to throw 22 passes a game and he's maybe going to get 170 yards out of him, 140 yards, you know?

It all depends on the quarterback and the offense you go to and how much they're going to use you.

It's all on how good you are.

Obviously, if you're going to another team, most of the time, you're not who you thought you were.

Most of the time.

So you have to think about that.

If you weren't regarded that much that they are keeping you, you're not who you thought you were.

Unless you're on the back end of your career.

Normally, once a player hits year 10, they move on from you, regardless of who you are, no matter how good you are.

You know, Jerry Rice, T.O., Randy Moss, at some point, teams even moved on from them.

And we talk about some of the greats, you know, greats era.

But when it happens early, you know, you're in year three or year four, it is time to look in the mirror and say, how can I make myself more valuable if they were willing to move on from me?

And what are ways do you think that players can do that?

Like, what can you do to make yourself got to work on your craft?

You got to, you got to work on your craft.

How there are players coming in year in and year out, always.

But how can I continue to make sure my value stays at a high level?

Yeah.

To where no matter who's coming out, you won't be able to get this kind of production from anyone else.

And that's that's that's the fight.

Every year, you got somebody coming behind you.

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Yeah, I'm friends with Jordan Matthews.

He played for the Philadelphia, and now he played for Carolina, and he's getting in the later years of his career.

But it's interesting to see him go there and now, like, he is a little bit more of like a leadership role, you know, lead by example, show up.

Like J-Matt shows up every day, you know, great attitude, great energy.

But it's just interesting to see what happens to guys as they get later in their career and how do they still make themselves valuable.

Yeah, they're in other ways.

To a squad.

In other ways outside of production.

Yeah.

And that's, you believe that?

That's what.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Veteran leadership, you know, around a bunch of young guys, someone that conducts themselves the right way in a locker room.

A good locker room presence can carry you on an extra two or three years in the NFL.

So that's not a myth.

Oh, no, absolutely.

Coaches like that.

Coaches like that.

A good guy, clean guy,

one that you know is not going to have any problems.

He's going to show the young dudes on how to work, how to work on on your craft and approach and study, study film and stuff like that.

That's very valuable outside of production.

Amen.

Do you think when you look at your career, do you think you could have operated differently in some years to get have gotten more out of yourself?

Right?

We all look, you know, because I'm critical of myself, right?

You know, I look back and I want to do the best I can, even though I don't know what it is sometimes, but I want to do my best.

And sometimes I'll look at certain interviews.

Like I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg a couple weeks ago from

the Facebook guy.

Right, right, right, right.

And I like,

I should have done, I knew I could have done better.

I think I had like a little bit of a plan, but I think I got nervous.

And so when I look back on that, I'm like, man, I wish I would have asked some things that were more important.

Right.

Things I really wanted to ask, but I was afraid to.

Right.

Do you look back in certain years of your career and you're like, yeah, I could have done some things differently at this time.

Either I was younger or I was.

I mean, when I look back at my career, I would have done everything I did plus more.

Cause I had some great ideas that I

didn't get a chance to do.

You know?

Like, what do you mean by that?

I mean, just the fun.

The fun.

I would have pushed the envelope even more.

Really?

Just having a good time?

Having a good time.

Because, listen, the NFL is not for long.

And I had a short window to maximize as much as I could out of myself and out of the NFL.

And

I did just that, which is one of the reasons why I'm still going to this day pushing forward.

But looking back, you're like, man, if I'd have known what I know now,

if I'd have known then what I know now, then I could have done even more, right?

Yeah, most definitely.

Like, is that what you mean?

Or do you mean like physically training more?

Like, do you feel like?

No, no, no, no, no, no, just my approach to the game in general, just on field stuff.

So

do you feel like your attitude was different at certain years?

No, I was the same always.

I was always authentic myself.

What you see right now off camera or on camera, it's the same way I was on field.

Yeah.

No,

that wasn't a character.

That was really me.

And I just chose not to conform.

and not to behave the way they said I should.

The way I played in the NFL, the same way I played when I was in high school.

It was the same way I played when I I was in Pop Warner.

Just because you've paid me millions of dollars, I'm not changing who I am just for that.

Absolutely not.

Did you ever have teams try to tell you to pipe?

No, they loved it.

Never.

They loved it.

The referees loved it.

Opposing teams, coaches loved it.

Opposing teams, players loved it.

Everything, everything I did.

I could see that because there's kind of a thing, like, even if somebody's the enemy, if they're an enjoyable enemy, dude, you're kind of just thankful to have somebody around that's going to keep you entertained, that's going to keep things fun.

Not only entertainment, but what I brought to the game and those I'm playing against, it was nothing but a competitive nature.

Nothing I did was malicious.

Yeah.

But you knew one thing.

If we're playing Ocho or we playing the Bengals in general, I got to come to play.

Because I'm going to challenge you during the week through the media.

I sent gifts to the defenses we were playing, to the secondaries, just to make it fun.

What kind of stuff, like high heels or something?

No, no, like

I sent Pepto Bismal to the Browns.

I sent...

Oh, because you're about to deal with this shit, huh?

Yeah, I'm going to make you sick to your stomach.

I sent gifts to the Falcons before.

Who else?

The Steelers.

I sent them some.

Just fun, man.

Just fun stuff.

And they would always get the packages Saturday morning.

Look,

bro, you're like a fucking dangerous sand on it.

It just happened.

I was going to make them sick or they were going to get sick of covering me.

So here's some pepto ahead of time.

All fun.

All fun.

Hilarious.

And it just makes stuff can really affect a defense, you think?

Just their mentality or whatever.

What do you think it really is?

It messes them up because if you go out there and you're trying to kill me, that lets me know you're out of control.

You're out of control.

So I do stuff like that.

I like to play mental gymnastics.

Yeah.

If I can get you out of your game, if I can get you talking to me in the middle of a game,

I got a little edge on you.

A little edge on you.

I did that.

That small thing.

So if you're worried about me personally, you're not worried about me as a player.

Bingo.

And you're not worried about the game in general as a whole itself damn dude stuff like that is so true it's like because you because even when you say if you look back on on a moment in your life you're like damn i could have been a little bit more locked in or i let this get me a little and it did affect me and that happens yeah so then if you think that of ahead that way you think if i can cause that to them yeah that and i know that that outcome really occurs then that then that me causing that is worthwhile yeah absolutely that's so true the funny thing about it is is being out of control and and trying to hurt an individual that you're playing against, which is what happened to me every game, I had no problem because I enjoyed playing very calm under chaos.

So you're going to be chaotic.

Somebody nice and relaxed and calm.

And you being angry, that split second of anger, you're going to miss.

You're going to whiff.

You know,

the game of football is a game of inches.

Yeah.

And once I know I'm in your head, I'm going to always have that half inch over you

every time.

Who hit you the hardest when you were playing?

Do you feel like Brian Russell?

Brian Russell.

Brian Russell.

Cleveland Browns.

Garbage time.

Carson threw a slant over the middle.

Game is over.

There was no reason I was supposed to be in the game.

And I was knocked out.

Watch this.

Up top.

All the way up top.

36 for Cincinnati.

Ooh, oh, God.

Intercepted.

And that is

the one hit I took and was concussed.

Yeah.

And did he even call your email you?

Nah, he didn't nothing.

It was good.

I enjoyed it.

You see the scoreline, huh?

Yeah.

34-10.

Why am I even in the game?

And it's what, a minute going the clock.

But real talk, though, if they'd have taken you out of the game at this point, would you have been upset?

Do you guys want to be in there getting stats or what's it really like?

You know, I don't know why we were in the game at that point.

I'm not sure.

That game was over.

Obviously, the Battle of Ohio, one of the biggest games.

Oh, that's a good point.

People came.

Maybe they don't want to see the star the whole time.

Yeah, so when you was there a quarterback that you

do you feel like you got the best opportunity with your quarterback yeah hell yeah carfin yeah absolutely just don't know you don't know if people are sitting there thinking like

whoever the quarterback is didn't matter you don't think

no because i'm i'm coming in and my skill set was at a point and how i felt was i'm gonna make your job easy

barbar kowski was the call coordinator when we played i'm making your job easy if you know you need a play and you need a catch or you need a whatever it may be you know who's number to call oh yeah that's my mindset like i don't i don't need you to be great throwing the ball.

Just put it in the area, just anywhere in the area.

I'll take care of the rest.

Was there, do you think players sometimes, like, at the end of games, are like asking coaches, hey, give me,

trade for me, or something like that?

People secretly like that.

Yeah, that happens all the time.

Yeah, now that happens all the time.

So people say it quick in that quick little hug.

Hey, trade me.

Trade for me.

Yeah, absolutely.

Trade for me.

Trade for me.

Damn, because you wonder them hugs are fast, but sometimes you see their mouth moving.

Yeah, that's why you see players always cover their mouth.

But it's hard now because everybody's mic'd up.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody's mic'd up.

So, yeah, that happens.

So that's a good one.

Do you feel like it's a?

I wish I had me a cigar.

I would try one, man.

I should have got one.

If I catch up with you this weekend, I would get Elliot one.

I got one.

You have your own brand?

Yeah, 85, remember?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I don't.

Bring them up.

Let me get a look.

Let me get a gander at them.

No, right there.

And where do y'all get that?

Where do y'all get the

Dominican in the DR?

Lettuce, what's it called?

Nicotine lettuce.

The leaf.

The leaf.

Tobacco.

Tobacco.

Yeah.

And DR.

Now we do man production out of Dominican Republic.

Now get down there in the Dominican Republic, huh?

Yep.

Yeah.

Now we just distribute from Nicaragua now.

Really?

Yeah.

That's where my dad's from, man.

For real?

That's dope.

That's dope.

That's crazy, bro.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

what are the odds of that, man?

Boavidas.

The good life, baby.

Do you think,

is this a make or break year for Joe Burrow?

Tell me what you think.

What do you think, Ojo?

No, not make a break.

Fuck no.

You don't think so?

No, absolutely not.

Make a break, what?

He ain't going nowhere?

I know.

He ain't going nowhere.

But in the perception of, maybe in the perception of fans, you think it's...

No, I wouldn't call it.

They got a great offense.

Crazy offense.

I agree.

So at that point, if you're going to give up 35 points, you've got to be able able to score 40.

Bingo, like I'm glad you said that.

Now, what we do need to do is we need to start fast.

We need to start early, you know, in the beginning of the season.

You know, losing to the Patriots the way we did in the beginning of the season, it hurt us on the back end.

We need to start fast.

We don't have to rally on other teams to lose or win for us to have an opportunity to get into the playoffs.

Nobody wants to see us offensively if we make it into the playoffs.

Yeah.

Ravens, very good.

Bills, very good.

Chiefs, very good.

And that will always be the three or four teams that are in the hunt every season.

Who's a team you think coming this year that might actually have a ⁇ that's going to be something different, do you think?

Oh, that's a good one.

That's a good one.

There's always a surprise team every year.

Because I'm a Saints guy.

The Saints started off last year.

They had two big games out of the gate.

They beat Dallas by 30.

They scored over 40 the first two games.

And then it went bad.

I mean, went so sour.

So I have no idea.

And it's hard to tell.

You know, you have some special players that have gotten drafted.

so we're going to see how they can impact the game early and impact that team in general oh yeah so i'm i'm curious i'm excited to see you know what what travis hunter does in jacksonville i'm excited to see what abdul carter does uh jackson dart who is oh yeah who's over in new york now he'll probably

with the giants right yeah yeah he'll probably he'll probably sit down and and russell will be at the helm it's gonna be a pressuresome market over there but it'll be interesting because russell you don't really know how it's gonna go yeah yeah but listen they they got malik neighbors so they're gonna be all right LS, you got Washington Commanders right there.

I'm excited for them.

Hey, man.

They got to always be in the hunt every year.

Every football team in the NFL is a quarterback away from being in contention year in and year out.

The commanders have their quarterback for the next decade.

Why is it so hard to have, because you usually have about six, seven teams, eight teams that have good quarterbacks, right?

The quarterback does well that year.

Why is it so hard to have that position be good?

Well, it's hard to find a quarterback that's good.

But it's crazy.

There's a ton of quarterbacks.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

It's not a ton of quarterbacks.

You have tier ones.

You know, your tier one quarterbacks.

You have 200 NCAA team, and you have a lot of guys that can play.

They're not that good.

Right.

They're not that good.

There's a reason why.

You know, your Patrick Mahomes, your Joe Burrows, Lamar Jackson, your Josh Allens.

Oh, yeah.

Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts,

Jordan Love,

Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence should be in that conversation.

CJ Stroud, maybe.

CJ Stroud.

You got guys that are right there in that section range.

Yeah.

those are tier one quarterbacks or should be based on their talent.

But

I don't know.

But then you get a guy like Andy Dalton.

He's a game manager, does a good job, right?

But never can kind of get over that past like nine and seven or six and eight.

He never can really.

It just kind of amazed me sometimes.

I'm like, you'd think that they would just try to put anybody in there, give them a shot.

Nah, it doesn't work that way.

You put anybody in there, you'll be home.

Man, you put anybody in there, that's how coaches get fired.

Oh, yeah.

You're getting fired.

Do you ever think of coaching and getting into it?

Absolutely not.

No?

No.

They don't pay enough.

And I make more now doing what I'm doing.

I make more now than when I was playing.

Damn.

So I'm good.

And that's such a blessing because, dude, a lot of guys,

their career, it's hard enough to get out of college, get on an FLT.

And then that is huge for those guys.

Get the bread while you can get there.

But then to have a career after that.

It's like I'm looking at the busting with the boys guys, like Taylor LaWan and Will Compton.

They got in early.

They have a great space now.

Like there's so much, like, they have like a real imprint

in society, you know?

Yeah, they do.

They're doing really well.

It's cool.

It's cool to see that coming up.

McAfee did it, did it well with his as well.

Oh, dude.

Yeah, nobody's like him.

Oh, yeah.

There's nobody like him, man.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else is going on, man.

That's interesting to create a family based on I'm building for success, right?

Absolutely.

Is it hard to manage that big of a family with that many children?

What's that like, really?

I run a tight ship.

Everybody, hey, I run a tight ship.

Those I have kids from, we have the same end goal.

We got the same end goal.

And those I have kids from, awesome mothers.

Awesome mothers.

No issues, no nothing.

How do you pick a good mother then?

That's an even, that's an important question, I think.

Because a lot of people, they'll just, you know, I don't ever do no ejaculation inside of a woman in my life.

You know, you'll never know.

You know that?

What a good mother is.

But those I have kids.

Oh, you don't think you can tell?

Just get.

There's no way to tell.

How would you, it's just impossible.

Well, I'm just saying, if if you meet a lady and they're a good lady i mean being a good lady doesn't mean you'll be a good mother you know and i only date women that already have kids hmm you can get it you can take that kid off to the side and say man what's what place y'all calling around it's just weird just weird

you got to have two or more kids

yeah that's a thing yeah you got to because i mean for me Dating a woman with no kids, they never have fucking food at home.

Yeah.

They always want to go out to eat.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You know what it's like?

No, Theo, I don't know if you experienced this.

Like, you know what it's like to have sex with someone that has kids and wake up at 3, 3:30 in the morning, get a fucking Capri son?

That's good.

Oh, bro.

That's fucking amazing.

Bro, I'm with half a mouth full of lunchable.

I'll make love all night.

See, that's what I'm talking about.

That's who I am, boy.

With a jaw full of them little shake

hands and the ham.

That's important to me.

God, I love that.

Having snacks in the pantry.

Because you kind of get to be a kid and a husband at the same time in a way.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Those are my rules.

Everyone, some people, oh, she has kids.

I don't care.

Oh, and if you wake up in the middle of the night, you can play video games, too.

Oh, my God.

We on the same page.

You wake a kid up.

I'll go to another room, wake little fucking little random.

Hey, let's run.

Let's run Call of Duty real quick.

Yeah, random, get up.

Let's go do it.

Let's run Duo.

You're about to get schooled right now, motherfucker.

I love it.

I love it.

Especially if she's a little ass up.

up there.

Especially if she has older kids.

Yeah.

Oh, that's perfect.

Oh, that's perfect.

Dang, that's a great point.

Yeah.

I mean, that's just me.

Everyone else's thought processes and thought process and approach to dealing with women isn't like mine.

And

that's fine.

Well, yeah, a lot of people, yeah, they just, but it's risky out there.

I think having some strategy as to what you do with your own seed is important.

Very.

Did you, you mentioned that your grandma, your grandmother raised you?

Yeah, grandma.

What was your, so did you, did your grandma raise your siblings too, or just you?

No, it was just me.

And my brother was raised with my mom.

Okay.

That's how I ended up in L.A.

My mom was in L.A.

at the time.

And so my grandma, after I graduated high school, I went to Langston University.

Langston?

Yeah, N-A-I-A-School in Oklahoma.

And I got thrown out for fighting.

So I went back to Miami after getting expelled.

And my grandma was like, listen, I've done all I can with you.

I washed my hands.

And that's how.

Damn, you was in a bad spot?

Yeah, that's how I ended up in L.A.

at Santa Monica.

Why was your attitude bad?

No, I just like to fight.

You like to fight?

Unfortunately.

Fist fighting?

Yeah, I like fist fighting.

Like, I'm going to beat James Harrison ass.

You fighting him?

Yeah.

James Harrison from Pittsburgh Steelers?

Yeah, I'm going to fuck him up.

I thought he passed away, man.

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

He's okay.

Yeah, he's alive and well.

Bring up a picture of him.

Well, not for long once you get him up.

Yeah.

Listen.

Bring up a picture of him.

Doesn't he have a child named?

I thought he had a son that played James Harrison.

Yeah, he's a coach, isn't he?

No, no, no, no.

He's done coach.

Oh, no, he ain't a coach.

God, he doing calendar calendar work.

Yeah.

God damn, he doing, he on fucking OnlyFans.

Look at this shit over here.

Yeah, that's Debo.

That's Debo.

God, I ain't going near his cage.

Yeah, great.

God dang, they fucking.

Yeah, he's used.

He's a junkyard dude.

He looks intimidating, doesn't he?

Yes, he does.

Yeah, I don't give a fuck.

You really gonna fight him?

Fuck him up.

God, I'll stand.

I'll coach you, bro.

Yeah.

I'll put you the water in the back.

I'll put ice on your neck.

Yeah, very good friend of mine, but you know, sometimes you got to come together.

Hey, look.

Sometimes you got to establish dominance as a little man.

Sometimes it is what it is.

Remember the story.

Why are y'all fighting?

Y'all are upset with each other?

I just don't like his face.

It's punchable.

Oh, yeah, he does.

Look, he has a punchable face.

Bring up another picture of that punchable man.

God dang, bro.

Now, I wouldn't hit this guy.

Bring up the other picture.

Go back to the other one.

Yeah, now this guy.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, he's huge, right?

And are y'all fighting just for fun?

No, MMA style.

Oh, y'all doing MMA?

Yeah, he can kick.

You can do whatever you want.

Did you go to the fight?

Are you one of the fight that's coming up here?

Or they just had one here?

Yeah, I think they did.

I wasn't here.

I was out of town working.

Do you like to go to him?

Yeah, I like it.

I'm a boxing fan more.

I can't believe it's cool.

I like boxing better.

And who's this, James Harrison?

No, that's my crazy ass in their boxing.

Oh, that's you?

Yeah.

Oh, so you really like it, huh?

Yeah, I remember

this was fun.

Who is this against?

Brian Maxwell.

He does.

Brian Maxwell does

bare knuckle boxing.

Yeah, good friend of mine.

I got

dang.

What's tough about boxing, man, that people don't realize?

Conditioning.

Conditioning.

You've got to be well conditioned.

And for this, I only had two weeks to get ready.

And since then, I think that was in 2021, if I'm not mistaken.

And I've been training since.

Just having fun.

Could you fight a guy like you?

Couldn't fight Jake Paul, though.

I think the weight class is he's so much, so much bigger.

He's heavy.

Yeah, he's heavy.

He's a heavy guy.

I'm only, I'm, but maybe maybe now and put on a little size.

I'm about maybe 190.

Who's somebody you would challenge out there then?

Who's like a real who?

I'm trying to think of somebody.

I just want to fight Debo.

I just want to fight James.

Well, he's willing to do it, isn't he?

Yeah, yeah, we're going to do it.

Who could I see love?

Then we're going to be friends after.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, dude.

When I remember when I was in school, if you got in a fight, the principal, they made you stand in the hall.

Right.

And you had to put your hands on the shoulder of the person you fought.

Right.

And so y'all had to be, by the end of the day, y'all were friends because you're right here the whole time, and the other kids would get out of class and have to walk by.

And so, by the end, this person became your

yeah, you had to get over whatever it was because you had to be right there next to each other.

I like that.

Um, what's a part that you missed about playing?

I mean, I know it's kind of a general question.

What's something you missed about playing that people wouldn't even think about?

For me, it was competing in practice, even just in practice was fun.

I miss it, I miss competing in practice.

That's where you got that's what that's what's difficult.

The games on Sunday, that's fun, that's the easy part.

Practice and competing, preparation.

I miss that.

I miss watching film.

I really do.

I miss watching film, especially on defenses and

defensive backs and knowing what they were going to do before it even happened.

I knew it was coming, whether it be down and distance, first down, second down, third down, all that shifting and motion that they like to do, playing around in the secondary.

I know what you're doing before you even do it.

And I miss that.

I miss being prepared.

So the entertainment value I bought

was only done because I had studied to a T.

I studied to a T.

You know, it's not like I'm just getting up.

You want it that is goofing around?

No, it looks like it.

Right.

There's no way to have that kind of success without studying.

Without knowing what I'm doing.

Or knowing what you're doing before I even go do it.

What do you think the NFL could do differently now to make it more exciting?

Or to make it a better product?

If anything.

I mean, listen, it is the best product.

There's really nothing.

There's really nothing.

Do you think so?

I think the NFL is going down, man.

No.

I think people like college better.

Hell, some people like damn WNBA nba better i don't like that absolutely not some people do some young men do yeah i don't a couple guys do yeah the nfl will always be the cream of the cream of the crowd you think so always i don't there's something about it sometimes i don't know if

the field should be bigger i don't know what should happen it's sometimes i feel like it like the guys have almost gotten too fast where i feel like sometimes with the running backs is what i do feel like you don't get to see enough good moves because there's not enough space for them to do them in because everybody's so fast now yeah i don't know if that's true or not, but I feel that way sometimes.

And I don't know if you could have a Barry Sanders now, not because you couldn't have the same guy.

You could, you just will never have another Barry Sanders.

That ain't happening.

That might be fair.

That is not happening.

Absolutely not.

That might be fair.

Not even close.

Yeah, it just looked like, you know, like it used to be once you got around the defensive end, wasn't going to get out there to get you.

Well, you know, most of the time, players back then were not as fast.

Now we have, you know, D-linemen, even D-tackles that run in 4-5.

Right, but I'm saying,

does that make it tougher for somebody's backs to get out of the backfield?

Not at all.

You just have to be that much better.

Yeah.

You got to be that much better.

Yeah, I'm wondering why sometimes it feels like it's not the same as it used to be.

It's amazing.

I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying I think guys aren't extremely talented there.

Right.

But sometimes I just wonder as a fan.

Are you a WNBA fan?

Yeah, absolutely.

I had an opportunity to go to my first game in Atlanta.

You did?

Yo, that shit was amazing in Atlanta.

And the product in general i don't know all the gripes that people have about the wnba yeah oh that was amazing i know oh my goodness

the atmosphere from quarter one the halftime dude it felt like i was at the club and i don't even go to the club and the first thing i thought about was wait is this what it's like when you you know when it comes to the nightlife i really enjoyed it i really enjoyed it yeah it was yeah dude i had a great time i went to lost vegas uh aces aces game yeah it was nice bro it's so much fun i tell my friends if they're in vegas like what show should i go see i say if the aces are playing go see it go see them yeah it's just such a uh

yeah there's like i don't people love the game you could tell they really are invested into the game right and this is when they had uh kate martin they had the chair they had the girl who won mvp three years in a row uh

this one that aja wilson they still have aja wilson yeah aja's still there yeah but dude it was unbelievable bro i had a great time and we got to sit right bro that did we were playing dallas spar uh the dallas mystic i think is their name they were their coach was right there dude i was i was chirping them during during the game, man.

It was ridiculous, dude.

Yeah,

I love the WNBA, man.

I love the product they have.

Yeah, I love the product.

I would like to invest in a WNBA team, man.

I think Miami needs a team.

I think Nashville needs a team.

Yeah, that'd be nice.

Because it kind of reminds me, I feel like, of what you might see with the NBA before everybody could dump.

And I don't mean that in any type of way other than you have to rely on good passing.

Like, there's a lot of stuff you have to rely on where the NBA doesn't have to rely on it as much anymore.

Right.

Do you think you can still play or no?

Me?

Yeah.

Fuck no.

Come on, bro.

You can't talk yourself up this whole time when you can't even get back out.

See, I got to be realistic as well.

The mind knows what to do.

The mind knows what to do based on years of playing in IQ, on-field IQ, but the body won't react the way I want it to.

Bro, you could play for the Titans.

No.

No,

you guys got a good one in Calvin Ridley.

Oh, no, I know we have, I mean, Calvin Ridley is is one of the best, right?

I don't think Atlanta should have let him go, but we could use you over there, man.

Yeah.

Even just for the, where we would come to watch you play, though.

Now, what about that element of it?

Has any team reached out to you in later years?

Absolutely not.

No.

To say, just to sell tickets, you absolutely.

I can do that.

That's what I'm saying.

I can fill a stadium up.

Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, but not at this day and age.

No.

But people would love to watch it.

Back then, yes.

Yes.

People would love to watch it.

I'm trying to think of something else that we could talk about.

Anything you want to talk about?

It's on you.

Yeah, thanks.

It's on you.

Thanks, bro.

Is it tough, though?

Let me think about this.

Realistically, when you have eight children, you have eight children.

Yeah.

I want two more.

You do?

Yeah.

I'm probably going to do, is it called IBF?

I want twins.

Ooh.

I want twins and I'm done.

Why?

You want twins so that you have to battle two Johnsons on the field at once?

No, not really.

I just want want to end on even numbers.

Okay.

And on a grand finale, you got to end with a big move.

There we go.

That two-point conversion.

I like that.

So we'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens.

Do you have to pick your children's names or your wife gets to pick them?

Yeah, whoever I'm dating, the mother gets picked.

They get to pick.

Really?

They get to pick every time?

Yeah, of course.

Is that a thing?

I don't know.

I just, it's the way I operate.

I'm not worried about names.

Really?

Nah.

So the mother gets to pick out every one of your children's names.

did she say, hey, what do you think about this name?

Yeah.

Always.

And will you sit on and say yes or no?

Say whatever you want to do.

We're rocking with it.

Wow.

Yeah, my son.

My son graduates from Arizona, Arizona State.

He's a sun devil?

Yeah.

He plays football there.

No, he's done.

He's done.

He's done.

Yeah.

Is it tough for your, if you have a child and do they feel like they have to live in your shoes?

How do you have that conversation?

But how do you have that conversation with them as a parent?

You do as a parent, even though I play football.

If you want to play, that's on you.

If you don't want to play, I'm supporting whatever it is you want to do.

I'm not one of those parents that push and push, you're going to do this.

No, absolutely not.

Whatever you want to do.

But do you feel like the children feel some type of pressure or no?

Just in their own?

I would hope not because the pressure would be coming from me.

Yeah.

Fuck the outside noise.

That has nothing to do with anything.

Whatever you dream and want to do, I'm going to support it.

Which one of your children is most like you, do you think?

Probably my daughter that runs track at the University of Kentucky.

Is she like your mom, too, or no?

A little bit.

It's a little bit of both us.

A little bit of both us.

A little bit of both us.

Like, what does she have?

Like, what tendencies does she have, you think?

That make her like you?

Athletic ability.

Okay.

Athleticism.

And all of them are athletic.

I think, honestly, her sister, who didn't run track, she's AKA.

She goes to Prairie View AM.

I think if she chose to run track or just be in athletics, I think she would be faster.

So she's the diva.

She's the Beyonce of the kids.

Oh, really?

Yeah, she's the diva.

Who was a bigger diva?

Do you think you or Terrell Owens?

Do you think?

I don't think we're not even divas.

That's just a word.

I'm not sure why they use that word.

It just doesn't describe.

We're not male divas, then.

No.

Who's a better player?

T.O.

So, one of your daughters is maybe more athletic, but she chooses not to do it.

Yeah.

What does she like to do?

She's a dancer.

Oh, really?

Yeah, she's a dancer.

She's M-U-A.

She can dress her ass off.

Oh, so she's stylish.

Oh, my goodness.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

That's my baby.

That's interesting.

That's my baby.

Yeah, I would like to have maybe a stylish little daughter.

Now, I have a daughter also who's into tennis.

Cheyenne,

I call her Cha-Cha.

So good.

Already.

Eight years old.

So good.

Forehand, forehand, backhand.

So good.

You don't understand.

We're going to have this conversation again

maybe five years from now.

And it'll be like, Theor, remember what I told you?

There she is right there on tour.

Love, love.

Wow.

Where does she play at?

She plays in Florida.

Yeah, she's in Florida.

She's in Florida.

I have a younger son, Savion, football.

Crazy.

Here in Florida?

Crazy.

Yeah.

He's

must be pretty busy with having to just be a dad all the time.

Yeah, it's easy.

It's easy.

I hear people complain.

It's easy.

It's easy.

What do you think that people complain about that makes it seem

like a bad thing?

I mean, you do also have financial ability to at least be able to

take care of rent, that sort of thing.

I think that might make it a little easier.

I bet it does.

From a financial standpoint, it's easy, but also being present and being active and being hands-on as much as I can.

Yeah.

It's just, I just like it.

Like, you know, that feeling?

I get such a great feeling when we go on trips.

You know, every summer we take trips as one huge group.

Really?

We just mobbing through the airport with like 10, 8, 9 kids.

All the women, too, the moms and the children.

No, no, no.

Oh, just the children.

Yeah, just, yeah, i take everyone dad and the kids all going to be tripped i love that where did you guys go somewhere fun that you would recommend to another big family to go like if they got because they got a lot of church families

mexico dr um this summer we're going to dubai all of us dog it's just those those trips dude just going to the mall when it's time to go shopping just walking in it like one big gang I love that.

That's interesting.

It's an interesting way to think about your future and how you're raising children.

But do you you worry that you can't give them enough each child, like enough mental and emotional connection?

Or you don't think about that as much?

Or you think it's okay?

No, they're good.

They're good.

They're good.

Yeah.

I have no idea.

Yeah.

I just think that you worry about that.

That's a lot of people's fear.

Because it's interesting because I think people used to have more children.

I think we're having less children now.

You see that?

They're just about to give people money to have more children.

You've seen that?

Well, you know, especially in this economy, too, I can understand why some people are a little bit more cautious

on having kids.

Yeah.

Who was an overhyped cornerback when you were playing, bro?

Overhyped?

Yeah.

I don't talk about people like that.

But if you had to guess somebody, if you think.

I'm not doing that.

I don't talk about people.

It was a negative.

Yeah, it's a negative.

Yeah, nobody's overhyped.

If you made it and you're a one percenter, you're there for a reason.

You're there for a reason.

Could you tell if a guy wasn't going to be like, do you feel like there are some days when a player, they could even be great, and they go into a game and it's just an off game.

Like, does that really happen?

Yeah, you you have off days michael jordan had off days i had off days some of the best brady mahomes you have off days but your good days outweigh the bad ones right the meat the average of it yeah

that's a good one that was a good question it was that was a good one well because sometimes it's like i got to do a show or something and i'll i'm like i don't feel like today's just not my day but i still have to do it right or you just you gotta just wonder at that level because it's you know it only comes down to 16 sundays you know?

Yeah, and some out of that 16, you're going to have a bad one.

Yeah.

You know, you want to be as consistent as possible, but being perfect, you strive for perfection.

So even if you do fall short, but you're going to have bad days.

Do you worry with a lot of these young people that now they have all this max preps and all this video footage and stuff so early?

Do you think that that's a positive or a negative?

How do you even look at some of that?

Because you have a child now who's nine years old, who's watching himself either do well or not do well on on a film you know yeah well that's that's a part of it that's a part of it you have to evolve with the times the parents have to evolve with the times that we're in now understanding that we're in a social media era

and everything is magnified times 10

everything's magnified

yeah i just wonder like if that's good for a child's psyche or not either way it's not going anywhere it's gonna be here that's your point it's gonna be here you can't romanticize the past because that's not gonna come back exactly so that that at that point it all it's on the parent helping the child understand

water off a duck's back, no matter what it is.

Something goes bad, in one ear, out the other.

Next play.

What about with the

like NIL is real popular right now?

Like you have players who will have, do, you'll have players that will do, get an NIL deal.

Yeah.

And then there's like a couple of windows for the NIL.

Bring up how many windows are there?

Because there's some before the season even ends.

Or how many transfer portals in the college season?

typically two main transfer portal windows right a window a winner window and a spring window so you can have a guy come in during the winter window and i think they've had this get a deal and then he leaves during the spring window or he wants a better deal but he just he hadn't even done anything yet yeah i mean but that's that's the game it is now it's a pay-to-play Do you think that helps college football though over time?

Do you think it helps keep players in college for a longer amount of time?

I think the fact that colleges in general are billion-dollar dollar institutions or entities in general yeah and have made so much money off players likeness for so long and the players really had nothing so i like the fact that players are now able to take advantage of their likeness and get get paid early because everybody's not making it to the nfl right everybody's not gonna get get there so them being able to make some make some change make some cash now while they're playing i'm all for it I'm all for it.

But do you think there will be players who don't make it because they get money early that it damages them?

No, absolutely.

You don't think so?

Well,

it could.

You tell me special money.

But

getting that kind of money in college.

He's got money early.

You want to do it?

And he's spending it in the club or he's buying a

wagon wheel or

a Jeep Wrangler.

You're going to tell me he's not going to want to.

Well, your end goal is the NFL.

Your end goal is always the NFL.

Getting money in college

shouldn't change your long-term vision and your childhood dream of making it to the But you don't think that somebody could suffer absolutely if you could pay me that money

that little bit of money is to help family

that's help family i don't know these guys are using it for that though maybe some of them no trust me they're using they're you're using it for family because you don't you know based on where some of these individuals are coming from this is is a huge help a whole a huge jumpstart to being able to help their family but the end goal the real money yeah is in the nfl not nil

What's the most somebody made in NIL this past season?

Let's take a look at it.

Probably 4 million, maybe five.

But you got people doing dog food commercials and shit in their small town and stuff.

Hey, get it.

Get it while you can.

Getting six or seven racks out there.

Four years of college right there.

What's the biggest NIL deal of college football?

The highest NIL in college football.

Oh, it's Arch Manning.

That's right.

6.7.

Yeah.

How many years is that, though?

He only got three more to go.

Is that 6.7 a year, you think?

No, total.

That's total.

Yeah.

So that's different, but that's better than like if that's a

10th round pick or something.

You got to remember, arts comes from money anyway, so that's not new to him.

Right, it's probably not making it, it's probably not making his biggest choice.

Yeah.

How often do you guys tape your show?

Now it's based on the NBA playoffs.

So we're off tonight.

So

we just did Thursday, Wednesday, and Tuesday.

We're off tomorrow.

No, we're off today.

We're on tomorrow, Sunday, Monday, and

we're on Saturday, Sunday.

Wait, yeah, you see tape all the time, huh?

Yeah, yeah, it's fun.

It's fun.

Yo, it's the NBA games, NBA playoffs, and we always have an NBA guest on.

So I'm enjoying that.

I'm enjoying that.

Did you think, do you think about other, like, is there another venture you'd like to get in?

You feel like you're in a good space?

It seems like you're in a bigger space.

Right now, I'm good because this is my offseason.

You know, when football season gets here, I'm on NFL films.

I'll be on ESPN this year with Stephen A.

So I'm good.

This is wow.

This is my off time.

What's he like, man?

Is he really like he seems, Stephen A?

Cool as hell.

Cool as hell.

Stephen A has afforded me opportunities I couldn't have couldn't have imagined.

Couldn't have imagined.

Yeah, so

I like it, especially being in space, being able to transition into media.

Yeah.

It's been really good for me.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you got to have, I think having that, just being able to have a voice, you know, and you still have a voice in the sport that you love.

Yeah.

You still have some sort of a say or at least an opinion and stuff, you know?

Yeah, an opinion that's respected, especially when it comes to football.

Yeah.

When you look back on your experience with the Bengals, what is like, obviously, you know, the playing and everything like that.

What was Cincinnati like then?

What was the energy like then?

It was good.

It was good, especially that 2005 year, which that was the year we were on fire offensively.

And obviously defense, they were having takeaways like crazy.

That was our year.

If Carson didn't go down in that first round of the playoffs against the Steelers, that was our year to

host a trophy.

That was that year.

Oh my goodness, the city was on fire.

I could just imagine now.

Hell, with the every year,

every year now with Joe Burrow there, you know, you have an opportunity.

You got a chance.

Rudy Johnson was a beast.

Oh, yeah.

Rudy, Hoosh.

Those are some good dudes, man.

Matter of fact, we have a, I have a group chat with half of everybody in here.

Hoosh is in there.

I'm in there.

Rudy Johnson is in there.

We got Carson.

Justin Smith is in that group chat.

I haven't seen somebody's name.

Delto Neil is in that group chat.

Oh, Brian Simmons is in the group chat.

I haven't seen somebody's name in so long.

Oh, look at Odell Thurman.

Odell was really good.

It's wild.

Some guys, it's like they'll have a great, like Rudy Johnson was huge for a few years.

He had a couple of great years.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And then you didn't hear about him.

Yeah, I don't know where I don't, I can't remember where Rudy went after he left.

And it's not even a judgment against him.

It's just like, that's how it's like things come and go fast in the league, huh?

It does.

Listen, those years go by real fast.

Very fast.

Damn.

11 and 5.

Yeah.

Damn.

And we were on fire, man.

Woof.

And who was y'all's backup?

Who came in as backup quarterback?

Yeah, who was our backup that year?

Oh, John Kittner.

He now coaches at Lakota East or Lakota West High School in Cincinnati.

Carson Palmer is now coaching in L.A.

I don't know what school he's coaching at.

And Kitna just could,

y'all didn't break through that second round?

No, no, no, man.

The Steelers won that game, man.

They won that game.

Old John, that's my guy.

Damn, I'm trying to think of anything else, man, I could think about.

Do you love living down here in Florida?

That's all I know.

Been all over the world.

I'd have been all over the world, and it's nothing like home.

No matter where I go, and I do all my traveling strictly for soccer purposes.

I'm a huge soccer enthusiast.

Love soccer.

You think you could have played it at a pro level?

I would have had to start when I was four years old.

If I started when I was four years old.

You got that intrinsic, huh?

Yes, I love it.

I love it.

I love the atmosphere, the energy.

I don't think people understand.

We don't look at soccer as a sport.

Why are you like all they're doing is running around?

The score is only one-zero, but you don't understand how beautiful that game is.

You know, it's like painting a picture.

And if you watch it and understand what you're watching, then you'll appreciate it more.

That's your favorite sport you see?

Oh, my God.

Times 10, then football.

What's the best place to see a soccer game at, then you think?

For me, growing up,

I had the opportunity to see a river, river game versus Boca Juniors in Argentina.

You'll never see an atmosphere like that ever again.

Dang.

And I don't think people, it's kind of dangerous, but still, River Plate and Boca Juniors.

Obviously, I've been, I've seen every EPL team.

I've been to their stadium.

They've seen every La Liga team play.

Abbey, El Clasico, Real Madrid, and Barcelona is always a good one.

So a lot of, so you've been to a lot of these famous stadiums.

Every last stadium.

Yes, every every last one.

I did the World Cup with Qatar with Fox.

I was an analyst for

Fox.

There was a lot of amazing stuff.

Dude, I love, love soccer, man.

Like,

if I had to choose between going to a soccer game or just watching and having sex,

I'm picking soccer every time.

Oversex?

Absolutely fuck.

I don't care who it is.

Oh, yeah.

I don't care who it is.

Like, that's how much I love the game, the beautiful game.

Yeah, I'm trying to to think.

Let me think.

Oh, yeah, I would probably go.

Yeah, sex sometimes gets a little bit boring, kind of, you think?

It depends.

Yeah, maybe not boring.

That's not the best word, but I mean, listen, I did amateur porn growing up.

So for me, it's...

You did amateur?

Yeah, amateur porn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It just, the only difference is I didn't get paid for it.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's why I was an amateur.

And so were you, and were people doing, were people filming or something?

Yeah, I had a tripod camera set.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, you were a tripod, yeah.

yeah so

those tapes still out there you think they did it earned me some good money i sold oh you had a tape out there no i i had a tripod and i just sold them myself oh bet yeah yeah

god i think i don't know i don't i hope there's nothing out there in me no yes yep right now probably back then i don't even think they sell the camcorders yeah back then for someone to be able to blackmail me at this point.

Yeah.

They might have some drawings of me having sex, though.

There we go.

Are you married?

Some clay figures.

No, I got to get married, man.

You have a girlfriend?

Not right now.

No.

I'm going to get one.

How do you navigate that?

I just be careful.

Like,

are you cautious on who you're dealing with?

Based on now being

a guy.

Okay.

Yeah, because things happen.

I mean, even with your co-hosts, it just gets, you know, like there's just a lot.

I think there's more opportunities, maybe.

I don't know.

Everything's weird now.

I feel like it feels, just feels, things feel kind of scary.

And you don't know even if

you're doing the right things that somebody could

take advantage of you.

Yep, they can.

And then at the same time, you can, I have a lot of friends that are sex addicts that get caught up just in sex and in that world and it becomes like an addiction to them.

Yeah,

it can be.

A lot of people, I hate when people call sex an addiction.

I really don't like that because we're mammals.

We're put on earth in general to have sex, oh, yeah, to procreate in general.

We pump, and so I just hate the fact that we have all these definitions.

Oh, he's an addict.

No, you're not.

It's sex, it's something that we as humans actually do.

Some do it more than others, yeah.

That just, you know, it's cool.

Some people enjoy doing it a ton, some people don't enjoy doing it, yeah, and some enjoy doing it with multiple people, you know.

And just it is what you ever been to a swingers club?

I've never been.

You've been, I mean, yeah, I used to, I used to work at one.

Oh, you did?

Yeah, I used to be a gigolo for rich, rich, rich, wealthy women.

Really?

Tommy Lee was a gigolo.

He was?

Yep.

Tommy Lee from Molly Crew.

Yeah, Molly Crew?

Yeah.

That's dope.

I mean, this is...

He is a gigolo.

So when you get hired to get out there and take these women out on dates?

Yeah, get on dates.

And, you know, obviously they had billionaire husbands, billionaire boyfriends that didn't have the time for them.

And I would just fill that void that they weren't getting at home because of them being busy.

So the husband's just so busy, I'm just going to, I'm going to treat my wife to a date.

At least she can go do something nice.

The husband didn't know.

Yeah, it was an ad.

It was an ad.

it was an ad in the paper you put your own ad out yeah i put my own ad and what would the ad say ballpark

uh based on the information that what they were looking for i had a menu of services that i provided and and was some of them sexual or not yeah some of them were sexual someone would just be spending time you know dates movies uh conversation massage stuff like that and most of the time it was more about sex and

you know um

fulfilling that fantasy of being with a black guy oh really yes that's a marketable fantasy huh of mandingo descent oh damn yeah and how do you know if someone's mandingo or not well any any what region is that uh

the lower region bring it up

where have i been i've been to tanzania

mandingo

on a map yeah there we go okay west africa

so if they want to see that west if they want that west africa energy, huh?

Yeah,

it's more of

a term in referencing the private area.

Mandingo.

Oh,

it's a Wiener term kind of thing?

Yeah.

Oh, damn.

I didn't know it.

I've heard it.

Right, right.

Mandingo guy or whatever.

Yeah.

Okay, so you had women trying to just be with a black man?

Yeah, they just wanted to fulfill that fantasy.

And were they paying a fair share?

Were they paying a decent amount for that?

Yeah, I mean, for an hour, I could make anywhere from $3,500 to $5,000.

My goodness.

Yeah.

God, would you wear your jersey or not?

No, this is before I even, I hadn't even made it yet.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, because at that point, I wouldn't need the money if I'm already in the league.

Oh, yeah, bet.

So that's the way, you know,

in college.

You know, I used to strip too.

Did you really?

In LA at the right track.

Damn.

Yeah, I was a dancer.

They used to call me Twix.

Really?

Why?

Because I was skinny and had a lot of veins.

Oh, yeah.

I like the Twix, yeah.

Dang, man.

Was that a fun sport?

It was fun.

It was fun.

It was fun.

Would you do the splits as well out there?

No, I didn't do the splits.

I didn't do the splits.

But

what I did come to learn is the women of

200 plus pounds or more, they tip much better than everyone else.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, they did.

Did they?

Because they won.

Yeah,

they tip well.

And would you ever get hired by those women for sexual at times?

At times, yeah.

At times, yeah.

And is it more challenging?

I feel like,

do you have to do more for a more of a Ruben-esque woman?

I've been with some probably medium-sized girls.

I've never been with like a real,

more more of a larger, bigger, larger, maybe.

Yeah.

You know, like, I've never been with like a Big X the Plug type of 200 plus.

I love.

I love.

Yeah.

I love that.

God.

I just do.

I just, though, though, Theo, I got so many good stories, man, from back then.

It's just,

we'd be here all day.

And would you, but would you guys ever go to like a drive-in movie or what would y'all do?

Holy shit.

Speaking of drive-in, I haven't been to a drive-in in years.

I don't even know.

Do they still have drive-in theaters?

Especially here in Florida.

That would be a great date.

I'm so glad you brought that up.

Yeah, I would love to get to a drive-in out there with a lady.

Yeah, that'd be dope.

Was it ever scary going over to a woman's house?

Absolutely not.

No, because I already know.

I know.

Nothing to be scared of.

Nothing to be scared of.

I'm just, I'm going to perform to put on a show.

And was there a certain amount of time you had to do sex for?

You could just...

Was it like part-time or full-time?

Kind of?

Well, it depends on what she picks from.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Depending on how

much you cash or check no i don't do checks cash cash up front damn bro yeah so you've always been entrepreneurial huh yeah most definitely you gotta start you gotta start somewhere and would you wear a special suit or a bandana or anything no no

just just banana hammock just casual attire huh oh yeah yeah you put would you lotion up that wiener or whatever for you lotion up everywhere yeah yeah oiled up yeah especially when i come on stage yeah oh yeah oh you don't even knock you just slide through the lock right on in come on

right on in.

Ocho Cinco, man.

Well, I would love to go to a game with your,

whenever you go watch your daughter in Kentucky.

Yeah, most definitely.

It's out.

It's outdoor season right now, too.

It just started.

So when I get up there, you got to come on down.

I'd love to, hang out.

Do you think that

some players secretly lobby to get into the Hall of Fame?

I think so.

I mean, rightfully so, for those that understand for them, if it means that much to them, you know, being a part of

that entity of special people, yes.

But then there's some players also, like myself, that feel that I don't really need the validation.

I understand who I am and what I did during my time.

And I'm in general,

I don't really need it.

I hate the fact that there are certain people that sit in places that have a, that are in a position of power that can control individuals that no longer play.

It's like puppets.

Oh, yeah, I know you want to be in here so bad, so I'm controlling whether you can get in or not.

I would never give anyone anything.

I would never give anyone the satisfaction,

the power over me.

Care a bunch of shit.

Take it.

I mean, listen, it's great.

It's a great achievement, a great accomplishment, but come on.

I have too much going on now still.

Right.

Every day you have a lot of adoration and things that you get.

You get, you know, to still be

active

and admired in a sport that you enjoy.

Who's that?

When I put that Hall of Fame jacket on myself.

Oh, yeah.

Good for you.

I think there are 269 members in the Hall of Fame, but that jacket right there,

that's one of one.

Gang, gang, that's the truth.

That's one of one.

There's only one of those.

Dude, yeah.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

But you started your own little hall.

Yeah, listen, the Hall of Fame is unbelievable, you know, to be able to get there.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not discrediting it.

Yeah, me neither.

I'm just saying, but I don't like the power it holds over players that are retired because they're clamoring trying to get in.

It's the same with like these Emmy Awards and Academy Awards for acting and stuff.

I respect that

it's an award that people have admired and stuff.

But if people out there like

blowing directors and shit to get the awards,

or they're like having a, you know, go

pity patter to them because they hope they vote for them.

I don't like that shit.

That's not me.

It never has been.

In fact, take me off the fucking ballot because I don't even want you to be able to tell me no.

That's how I feel.

I don't even want you to be able to say, you didn't get it.

I never wanted it.

You know what I'm saying?

It's almost even a better take.

With the future, like, I know Shannon's going through his stuff right now.

Yeah.

With the future of y'all's show, did you guys worry about that?

Does it impair it or do you feel?

Unk is going through his issues, right?

And whatnot.

And

Unk asked me to be a part of Nightcap.

And I'm going to ride that wave because he asked me to come on.

I'm not jumping ship because of his personal stuff.

That you handle whatever you need to handle, I'm always be here.

Yeah, I'm gonna be here.

You know, if the ship goes down, bitch, I'm going down with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, so when the ship was going good, I was right here.

Just because it's just because it's fucking rocky, I ain't going nowhere.

I'm not going, I'm not going nowhere.

So, I'm going to let Uncle do what he needs to do.

We're going to keep on filming.

We're going to keep on trucking.

We're going to keep our head down.

He knows what he needs to do on his end, and I'm going to make sure I take care of my end and do what I need to do and show up.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah, man.

That's, you know, you know, it reminds me of is when Bill Belichick, remember when Trump, people got on to Bill Belichick about Trump, and what did he say about him?

Remember when everybody was against Trump?

Remember that shit?

They still are.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

Yeah, now even for different reasons, man, how they're handling like some of the Middle East stuff.

But he said, my relationship with Donald Trump isn't political because the media was really getting on to him.

He said, My relationship with Donald Trump isn't political, Belichick said on the dynasty.

I knew him long before he got into politics.

Donald is a friend, and I wrote a personal letter.

Um,

might have been it, but he just he stood up for the fact that this is my friend, right?

This is my friend, and people can there can be other stuff that he has going on in his life,

but

that isn't, I'm not going to not be a friend then, right?

Right,

um,

see, it just kind of reminds me of that.

Anything else you wanted to talk about, Chad?

Probably got a lot of good stuff.

I feel like you think we had a good conversation?

Yeah.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah.

Sometimes it's hard.

You know, sometimes you have days where you're like, you got it.

You got everything going.

Everything's okay.

Sometimes you have days where you're like, what's even going on?

It's weird.

Sometimes you get scared.

Sometimes you don't.

Yeah.

Are you nervous about certain moments?

I don't think black people get as nervous as white people do.

Do you think that that's true?

It depends.

It all depends on the atmosphere.

It all depends on the atmosphere and the situation.

I mean, driving a car and the cops pull up behind you, we get nervous.

Yeah.

And I'm like, hey, buddy.

Yeah, you, yeah,

you guys, not so much.

Get nervous.

That might be a good point.

So, in different moments.

But I think also a good thing that a lot of black folks have is white people, you could tell when they're nervous because you could see it in their skin.

Yeah, we give a lot of too many clues away.

So I think I got to start wearing some, some, some rouge or something or just like a I got to start wearing some bronzer

Thank you so much Shad.

No, thank you best of luck man.

I love your energy bro.

Thank you for being somebody that continues to and entertain people

You know, it's just interesting to hear what your life has been like and how you kind of choose

Somehow you're able to remarkably choose to still just be yourself no matter how kind of hectic things get.

It doesn't matter no matter what.

I always even kill at all times

and your even keel is even even kill n evil too to a lot of people you know it's wild but yeah that's who you are yeah always been and will never change i will always remain authentically myself at all times well it's been fun to watch man on the field and off and uh yeah thank you for your time thank you boss i appreciate it yes sir

now i'm just floating on the breeze and i feel i'm falling like these leaves i must be

cornerstone

Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind.

I found I can feel it

in my bones.

But it's gonna take

a little bit of time.