#578 - Ben Affleck

Speaker 1 Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand-up special, It Ain't Right, is now streaming on Hulu. Filmed live at the sold-out United Center Arena in Chicago.

Speaker 1 Sebastian's newest special features his larger-than-life presence and hilarious everyday observations to keep you laughing.

Speaker 1 Sebastian goes all in on family chaos, non-existent manners, and life's most relatable and funny moments.

Speaker 1 Watch Sebastian Maniscalco, It Ain't Right now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Speaker 2 Terms apply.

Speaker 1 Today's guest is an actor, a writer, a director. He's won an Oscar Award.

Speaker 1 You know his movies like Goodwill Hunting, Gone Girl, Batman. The list goes on.
He has a new film, The Accountant 2. It's in theaters this Friday with John Bernthal.
You may have seen the first one.

Speaker 1 I had a great time getting to know him. Today's guest is Mr.
Ben Affleck.

Speaker 1 i wonder if you lose vanity as you get a little bit older like not you but like do people what is that i don't know i see some people like

Speaker 2 i don't know it's hard to tell because that you know you see some people like

Speaker 2 doing

Speaker 2 crazy looking things and you think like that looks crazy why are you trying to look 18 years old you know what i mean um oh like he's on the celebrity big brother right now who's that guy he kind of looks like jack sparrow i don't know i don't know what you're talking about but i can imagine a lot you know what i mean you kind of can like a lo I i think you can go one of two ways like if you see yourself all the time and especially if like the way you make a living is by kind of in part the way you look or whatever, it feels like, you know, people can get like obsessed with it.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's kind of who I was thinking of Mickey Rourke, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no judgment against him, but he trusts, you know, it's like you can, it's definitely an active, yeah, some people, it's like an active thing.

Speaker 1 And then you're in a real kind of like conundrum with yourself because you have to get old. So then you, you would constantly be feeling like afraid to get older, I guess.
Or you'd be in like an a.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's a tricky thing, right? Like you, you know, Nobody wants to get older, right? Because what it means is like you're going to die. And nobody wants to really face that.

Speaker 2 And also you just find out like, you know i i you know you're 50 man you'll when you get there you'll see like just regular shit that used to be normal hurts like moving around you're like damn what what happened to me today you're like oh i why is my back hurt oh because i got up and then i sat back down you know what i mean yeah i petted a small dog creates like small injuries all the time you know and so you start to get a little bit that that can kind of affect you and i think if you um i think part of it's you got to just get comfortable with the fact that you know and i i guess i'm lucky because i'm i don't feel like oh shit i better look young.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, kind of am who I am. And, and, um, I'm all right with that.

Speaker 2 And also kind of what I, what I like, what I'm interested in more and more is stuff that doesn't necessarily involve like how I look.

Speaker 2 Like that pressure, I think, like for women, I, for me, for anybody who's sees himself all the time, it's like, I think that can turn into like a vicious cycle of trying to look at shit and fix it or look younger or something.

Speaker 2 Whereas like, you don't have to look any kind of way to direct movies, you know what I mean? Or have a business, you know, so I guess I'm lucky.

Speaker 1 Do you, it's hard to know if you, it would seem like you seem like a guy who likes being in Hollywood or doesn't like being in Hollywood, I guess.

Speaker 2 There's things I really like about it and things I really don't like. Yeah.
Right. And I wish they didn't have to be together, but they are, right? Like it's kind of life.

Speaker 2 It's there's, you got to take the good with the bad. I don't really like to.

Speaker 2 like do big social events or go out much. I'm kind of shy.
I don't really want to be on care.

Speaker 2 Certainly when I'm like in my regular life and I'm walking around in my, you know, whatever underwear and t-shirts and stuff, but I don't want people looking at me.

Speaker 2 I like my family and my kids and my life. I, I wish that were more private.

Speaker 2 I don't, I don't know how many people really want to be sort of scrutinized in that way, but I, I really like making movies and I like telling those stories.

Speaker 2 And so, look, the truth is I always knew that was kind of a part of it. And so, you know, I deal with it.
I don't, there's things I don't love about

Speaker 2 this business, a lot of them. You know, it can make you kind of crazy.
You know, it can require,

Speaker 2 and there's stuff that's just no fun for me, like, you know, events and shows and stuff like that. I don't, some people really know how to have a good time.
I wish I did.

Speaker 2 I wish I was out there like, great, we're going to hit it. And I'm going to, you know what I mean? Like, as if I had that attitude, I'd probably be happier about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Yeah, dude. I'm always trapped inside of myself.
There's always like a lot of dislike. Some people are like, you don't like being in a crowd.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I have a crowd inside of me right now.

Speaker 2 There's a crowd in my head. It's busy enough.

Speaker 2 30 people in here, and we're out of horses.

Speaker 2 So I've got enough fucking problems on the interior right now.

Speaker 1 So I can totally, dude, I can totally, oh, I can totally relate to that. And every time there is an

Speaker 1 and then we'll get off this. I want to talk.
I know you, I want to talk to you about directing and acting, but

Speaker 1 because yeah, I was just, I was like, this bit is so, because they always get pictures of you where you seem like you're like the dwarf that like is kind of like the backup dwarf, you know, like you're on the side, you're smoky.

Speaker 2 You're like, what is that guy? I didn't, I don't know that character, man.

Speaker 2 Is he pissed? Because he's a little pissed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's an understudy.

Speaker 2 He's the understudy dwarf. Okay.

Speaker 1 And not dwarf, like you're a regular heighted guy, but it's like, but I shouldn't have said dwarf. I shouldn't say anything, but it was like,

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 And it's like they only put this chronology out of you that makes you seem like you're kind of bummed.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 If the only time, like when somebody's taking a picture of me, I'm bummed. Because usually I'm with my kids.
I'm trying to go somewhere. And then there's four guys.
We're like,

Speaker 2 and I'm like, hey, man, every time, can you give me some time? I'm trying to be with my kids.

Speaker 2 Do you mind? Can you, you know what I mean? So the look on your face is kind of like, and then they go away, not taking the picture, you go inside and you're having a good time.

Speaker 2 But it's this selective experience of like, take a picture of somebody every time they're feeling irritated. They're going to look irritated.

Speaker 1 Especially if you're the one irritating them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like, I'll come piss you off and then take your picture and then put, and then be like, look how pissed off it is. Exactly.

Speaker 1 That's exactly what, that's exactly what that whole system is, really.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 But, and it's like useful because that's why, like you know i'm sure you've seen on all this stuff like the you know that's kind of the idea is like follow somebody around antagonize them and then hopefully they'll have like a nervous breakdown and go crazy on you and then your video will be worth more money you know yeah it's it's such a it's that whole thing gets really black mirrorish man you know it really gets kind of like um

Speaker 2 like i can remember i a long time ago you know

Speaker 2 years and years ago, like I really had a lot of empathy for Britney Spears because I remember that it seemed like, and it's not somebody that I knew or hung out with, but I just like everybody else, you see all this shit that comes through.

Speaker 2 And I, but having had my own experiences myself, I knew like these are people are following her around in a time where she may or may not have been having difficulty.

Speaker 2 I don't know because I don't know her.

Speaker 2 But I do know that the cycle of having people harangue you and yell at you and hassle you and follow you, it kind of seemed like that itself was kind of whipping up the whole thing into a tizzy.

Speaker 2 So it's, it's, and I, like, they're not helping. Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 from and though they're kind of poking a stick at it going look look look at it you look and you so it that's where it felt kind of like that's the first time i thought this is kind of a a weird kind of um unintentional i think culturally but kind of collective cruelty where what's taken out of the image that you see are the people around you know waving the stick at the tiger or poking on it or whatever um and all you see is the the growling animal or whatever it is

Speaker 2 But like that, a part of that is because somebody's coming around and, you know, hitting on it or whatever to make it get active. And that's where you think, okay, well, this isn't really news.

Speaker 2 It's not even real. It's not what would be happening if this effect wasn't taking place.

Speaker 2 And that's where I thought, okay, you know, the sort of wise thing to do is to just sort of like maintain one's perspective and try to remove yourself a little bit.

Speaker 2 It doesn't, which is what I would like to do. I think there's this sense that

Speaker 2 if you see someone's picture all the time, they must must want you to be seeing it, right? Which is not the case at all. For me, I'm self-conscious.
I don't really want you to be seeing that.

Speaker 2 I don't see any reason for it.

Speaker 2 As an actor, it's no good for you because I don't really want people, if they watch a movie, to be like, that's not him, because I saw him yesterday eating lunch and I know he's who he really is.

Speaker 2 It gets in the way of you being able to create like the illusion.

Speaker 2 It's really hard work to create the illusion that this person, like the character in the accountant two, for example, is a real person in a real circumstance and in order to get the audience to care about it to laugh to find it exciting and empathize with the character they have to suspend disbelief that's harder if you're constantly being shown something else so i think it it gets in the way it makes it harder to to be an actor and it's also just it's also not good for you people start to resent you if they see you too much no matter whether or not you're trying to be so no no i i don't want to do this and nonetheless like i remember 20 years ago going through an experience where i was like it feels to the world like I'm trying to shove myself in their face.

Speaker 2 And nobody likes that, right? Nobody wants to be the like,

Speaker 1 the camera hog, the guy who's trying to get a bunch of thin afflex shoes or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, man, just leave me alone and

Speaker 2 I would be much happier. So in a way, it also can damage your career.
Although I think it's... I don't pretend to understand the nuances

Speaker 2 of social media and how to manage that as a celebrity, so I don't do it. Some people do it really well.

Speaker 2 And I think there is a difference now because like it's like if you have 100 million followers, that's actually valuable and meaningful in a different way.

Speaker 2 I still, I'm kind of old school, I guess, in a way of

Speaker 2 medium school, I think. I'm middle school.
Yes, exactly. I am a seventh grader.

Speaker 1 Oh, dude. Yeah.
I don't even think either. I don't know if I graduated that one.
Some of them they let you skip, I guess, if you're, you know, depending on what county you're in.

Speaker 1 Sometimes they hold you back.

Speaker 2 Sometimes they hold you back, dude.

Speaker 1 Bro, the scariest thing was when like the dumb bully kid got held back.

Speaker 2 And you're like, you had to stick around in your grade.

Speaker 1 And you're like, dude, they'd be like, bro, I remember we got word.

Speaker 2 Kids 6'10 and like 6th grade.

Speaker 1 Dude, we got word that Damien had gotten held back.

Speaker 2 And people were like, oh, hell no, dude.

Speaker 1 We cannot do Damien again.

Speaker 1 We cannot do Damien again. Like, Damien has to go out to pasture or wherever they put these kids that leave sixth grade.
And they're like, Damien's coming back.

Speaker 2 Finish their education.

Speaker 1 shut him down dude tase him or something you know put a tire spike when he's leaving out of his driveway in the morning but Damien cannot come back

Speaker 2 but yeah it is interesting and it is kind of a sickness I think a lot of people see that stuff as a sickness these days but I do think it's fascinating about the suspension of disbelief and that that was something that used to be amazing about celebrities is like you never got to see them right and so you only got to see them and actors and you only got to see them on screen and in this way and so you really envision them that way i mean you would almost be shocked if you saw a celebrity in person or an actor in person uh who didn't like like indiana jones if he didn't have his hat in winter i'm just gonna say that is that when i was a kid i kind of thought harrison ford was that guy you know what i mean like and it that's harrison ford i think he's probably the biggest you know movie star of my childhood and whether it was like you know indian jones or or star wars like he was the guy and i kind of thought he was that guy and so it's a little weird to see that guy just like you know in his sneakers and his kind of raincoat walking around brentwood it's sort of like of course it's disappointing or or it's disillusioning or something because you you have this thing in your mind that's people went to a you know steven spielberg and george lucas went to a whole you know use all their talent went to a bunch of work to make this dude look like indiana jones and han solo And I think what I've seen now is like, I actually don't even want to see like the actors that I really like.

Speaker 1 I don't want to go on your social because I don't want to know what you had for lunch because it just makes it harder for me to get into like what you know what you're doing um I love that and that's I think that is a real directorial way to think I think I mean I can see that in your brain I mean I'm just a judge I'm just a guy judging you they just met in a room somewhere but um

Speaker 1 but I never thought about that that that's how it is that yeah you don't want you want them kind of you want to

Speaker 1 Hollywood has almost bitten its own tail in that way because there's this underlying like valueless current really that's kind of like a very cheap currency.

Speaker 2 It's Hollywood. It's Hollywood sort of adjacent

Speaker 2 media

Speaker 2 culture that

Speaker 2 profits from and circles. And there's a symbiotic relationship between Hollywood and obviously like here I am promoting my movie and running around.

Speaker 2 And now I don't want to go on like a tabloid and do that or whatever it is, but that that becomes part of that culture too.

Speaker 2 And then you have like any interview show or all these, and you're right, in a sense, it is Hollywood because if you do a movie at Universal, you know, you'll see that person's doing all nbc comcast owned you know talk shows and appearances right like it's not a coincidence because when they do their presentation in the boardroom for comcast to their shareholders they go look we make these movies we spend a lot of money and then we get the stars and we plug them into all of our other shows that we also own and there's a lot of synergies so on and so forth the the idea though is like okay there's that's a kind of a tax that you end up sort of paying on your sort of life and the one hand, and on this thing that you're trying to build, which is something that connects with people and moves them, and that they want to go out to a fucking movie theater and pay good money to see.

Speaker 2 And it makes it a little bit harder than to have to kind of go around and do all that other stuff and be like, okay, well, that's not who I really am. And that's and

Speaker 2 to try to sort of be interesting and relevant in some other way that isn't really what you kind of even wanted to do. And so, so you're right.

Speaker 2 It's sort of part Hollywood and also kind of Hollywood adjacent in a,

Speaker 1 it does eat its tail. In a way.
Because it's, because the acting and the creation, it's like a watch looking at the beauty of a lake, right?

Speaker 1 It's like, this is picturesque, and this is like how they meant the waves to look. And there's a current here, and there's an inflow and outflow.

Speaker 1 And something landed in the water over here and left a ripple. And something else is, this is the B story, and there's a ripple.
But then it's this under, it's this, all this stuff under it.

Speaker 1 And it's almost starting to like kind of drain its own lake in a way.

Speaker 2 That's a good metaphor, yeah. Like the

Speaker 2 movie has the kind of lake and the underneath of what's both what goes into it and what happens behind the scenes and also what's

Speaker 2 taste.

Speaker 2 And it does kind of like, it's interesting, like, yeah, as it's,

Speaker 2 if you over-text it, it lowers the lake and all of a sudden it doesn't look like a beautiful lake. It starts to look like

Speaker 2 the low country marsh and it pulls down. You start to see all the little black mud around the edges and the muck.
And that's,

Speaker 2 yeah, I don't know how to kind of balance that. But as a director, you know, you're right.
Like, I would say that's the way, the principal way I've always kind of looked at this stuff.

Speaker 2 So, it used to be that you

Speaker 2 had an actor and you had people knew less about them. And now a part of even casting for me is what do people think or of and expect this person to do and or be?

Speaker 2 And how can I both, I have to rely on that and use that, but I also have the opportunity to kind of subvert that in a way.

Speaker 2 And so, you have to be mindful, not just of the story you're telling, but what does the audience bring into the theater with them or

Speaker 2 when they turn on television, you know, expect?

Speaker 1 That's, dude, that's, yeah, I think that's advanced thinking, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 I really do.

Speaker 2 It's just learned by lived experience. Mostly, you know, find out, like, I even often make mistakes, you know, like if I, sometimes I found if I sort of,

Speaker 2 I did a movie where I had like a very blonde wig that was like a medieval.

Speaker 1 Would you like Rick Flair or something?

Speaker 2 I wish I was Ric Flair. That would be spectacular.
I'd love to play. It was actually a good movie.
I really liked it. It was called The Last.
Ooh.

Speaker 2 The point was, and it was a great director, Ridley Scott, and he had this idea for it.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, Ridley Scott.

Speaker 2 And yeah, there's the thing there. You see, and I liked the,

Speaker 2 if no one, I think, had ever seen me or whatever, I thought that was really, yeah, interesting. The problem is that people, I think what it did

Speaker 2 created noise around, you know, look at this hair, is this different? And we know it's a wig.

Speaker 2 And so now you look at it and you go, but I know he doesn't look like that. And so it causes you to kind of think it's false.

Speaker 2 That's an example of of kind of probably not being able to go that far away from myself and still have people go, okay, I can sit aside what I know and just watch this story and like it and believe in it.

Speaker 2 Dude, that's fast.

Speaker 1 That's insider baseball, man. No, I could, it makes total sense.
It makes total sense that that would start to affect how we see things.

Speaker 1 You know, there's something that's happening where it's hard to get people to believe in some of these movies, you know, and people's attention spans have changed. It's just gotten interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a bunch of things.

Speaker 2 But the fact that like even the online world, for example, you see now that like shorter and shorter and shorter like clips are what even my son, who's constantly showing me clips of you, by the way, he's always like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So it's a nice kid.

Speaker 2 He's a great kid. Yeah, he's a fabulous kid.
And he's,

Speaker 2 and he's, he, now, when I watch him like scroll, it's like he doesn't even get through the six seconds. Right.
You know what I mean? He's like,

Speaker 2 you know, and he'll like a long period of time for him is four or five seconds. And it's, and then I'm like, hey, man, you know, let's watch this show or watch this movie.

Speaker 2 And it's like, he gets bored fast. He got to really love something to sit through it.

Speaker 2 And then he, you know, binges like all the episodes, like we just sat through like, and watched, you know, Invincible, this animated show, you know, and then it's like, let's keep going.

Speaker 2 So it's this weird dichotomy of on the one hand, it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Okay, then plug in and like mainline this one thing and eat it all up till it's gone.

Speaker 2 And yeah, so it's all, it has really changed. You didn't used to be able to, to like pause and select or even have that much to choose from.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like though, that many choices is overwhelming to the, to the mind. Like we weren't made, I don't believe, evolutionarily and

Speaker 2 as human beings to like, you know, we're supposed to be living in like a village and see about 100 people in our lifetimes. Yeah.
Right. That's the vast majority of human history.

Speaker 2 That's how we did it. And I still feel like in a way, that's how we're socialized.

Speaker 2 It's why, for example, if you feel left out of a group, it's very painful. Because, like, in, you know, thousands of years ago, if you got left out of the

Speaker 2 village, the group, whatever, and they didn't take you to hunt, you died. And you needed those people to live.

Speaker 1 And so it hits something really limp inside.

Speaker 2 And even social media, for example, you're looking at stuff and you're going, damn, why is everybody else's life so good? And I'm seeing the life you're advertising looks so fucking cool.

Speaker 2 And my inside life feels like shit. That also is like a basic primal thing.

Speaker 2 And I think that's what and you know this stuff kind of touches but but the amount of information now that comes in because really now everybody's a celebrity right everybody is a celebrity everybody is followed everybody every life is out there and there's newborns there's four months old and 1100 followers And it's really a fun, like 1,100 followers is kind of, it's just a, it's not any different from celebrity, it's just a matter of degree.

Speaker 2 But this is a four month.

Speaker 1 He can't even open both of his eyes at the same time.

Speaker 2 And it's like, yeah, exactly. And that's kind of become the, the, that, as the currency of, man, that looks great.
You know, that, like the currency of like fame in and of itself as a desirable thing.

Speaker 2 Like people go, man, I want to be rich and famous. Like

Speaker 2 take rich. Yeah.
You know what I mean? You know, famous is not

Speaker 2 going to make you happy. Yeah.
It seems like it will because it's like, oh, people will like me and know my name and kind of know who I am. And I'll feel like I've done something.

Speaker 2 I think a lot of times what happens is if it doesn't come with a real sense of like achievement or accomplishment, it actually feels hollow and empty and like bullshit and like and undeserved do you think you wanted to start directing because it gave you even more of a sense of accomplishment uh yeah i wanted to

Speaker 2 make any sense it does make sense i wanted to i really i didn't i wanted to fail on my own terms because i had gone through some movies that where i was like i don't like this i don't agree with this but you you know you got to do how it's like being a playing a football team whatever you got to run the plays that the coach sets up you know what i mean they're going to you know run a draw play you know get the ball and you know turn around and run a sweep right because they're not blocking that that way.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? It's just, that's not going to work. Right.
So you, that's how

Speaker 2 that whole art form is sort of structured by and large. And what I found was, you know, I had a real strong sense of the way I wanted to do it.

Speaker 2 And when it, when it didn't work, when it worked, I didn't feel great because it wasn't me that had that feeling. You know, I didn't feel like, I didn't feel proud of it.

Speaker 2 And when it didn't work, I just felt pissed off. Like, fuck, I didn't want to fucking do it.
God damn it. I, I didn't want to, you know, I said it or I knew it.
And that's a terrible feeling.

Speaker 2 So I'd rather fail on my own terms or succeed on my own terms. And I, and that's where I kind of got into directing.
And I always, I wanted to do it even when I was younger. And I liked it.

Speaker 2 I just didn't have the confidence. And a certain point, I kind of had nothing to lose.
And that was really what kind of gave me the courage to take that leap.

Speaker 1 And into directing, you mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because my, like, as an actor, I sort of, I got real cold and like had a couple of movies that didn't work. And then, you know, all of a sudden it can be kind of over for you.
That's why it's a tough

Speaker 2 business. Fuck yeah, man.
Like there's no like

Speaker 2 seniority. There's no tenure.
There's no

Speaker 2 retirement. There's no gold watch.
If your show doesn't work or your movie doesn't work and nobody wants to hire you, like they're just going to hire someone else.

Speaker 2 You know, it's, there's 130,000 people in SAG and there's only 30,000 people that work every year. Right.

Speaker 2 And then there's an even smaller amount of those roles where, you know, you have more than two lines.

Speaker 1 So it's a very, it's very tough right and so if you're not people aren't watching they're not coming or it's not interesting see you later and now it's different because i think the movie theater you know it's like it's a new attack i think it takes novel thinking these days i think it takes i think that movies themselves long form

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 1 i think it's they're gonna have to find some new unless it is like

Speaker 1 great or new or so novel, they're gonna have to find some new ways to either present it or edit it.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure what it is, but to me, just as a viewer, it feels like we're in this shift because so quickly have people gotten into these quick moments.

Speaker 1 And it's not even that their attention span is short, their commitment. It's like they don't want to, it's like, I'm not committing to it.

Speaker 2 All the other options that you have. Totally, you're shit if you have a computer.
You fucking. Like, when I was a kid and we went out, there wasn't shit else.

Speaker 2 There was three channels or nothing on TV.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't, and if you didn't go see the movie in the theater, you had to wait, you know, a year for it to come out on like VHS or DVD or whatever it was or cable.

Speaker 2 and so you were kind of a rumor you just had to wait for it to come out in a diorama like it was bad exact

Speaker 2 cave painting and shit how long is it gonna take you to paint this on my cave or a tattoo a guy came through with a tattoo and it told a story

Speaker 1 yeah i and so you had to like it looked like a domestic dispute a lot but but you're like hey we you know there's every there's a story for everything but dude even like this light danny mcbride gave me this like two like a month ago or something this light it's like a flashlight or something

Speaker 1 well this side's just like a flashlight right but the other side is like a wiener light. Like you can put like a wiener on something.

Speaker 1 It has like a, but I'm just saying like everything has like two, like seven things now. Right.

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Speaker 1 But I'm just saying, like, everything has like two, like seven things in it. Right.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 and I think you're right. Like, if you want to get people to go to the theaters, movies either got to be really good.

Speaker 2 Like, you can't just used to be like, okay, there's going to be three movies in the theater every weekend. People are going to go to one of them.

Speaker 2 Now you got to have a reason to want to go out and see it. And I'm lucky because, you know, the reason why I'm really confident about this movie, the accountant too, is actually plays great.

Speaker 2 It's a really good movie. People love it.
I've been, you know, but I was the one where I was like, let's make, let's test this movie, let's take it out there.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, okay, this movie belongs out there theatrically. And there's still, it's still more difficult.
In the old days, this movie would have been a home run, easy.

Speaker 2 Obviously, I'm like, the movie's great. It works great.
It's a big smash hit. Now you have to like, okay, work hard to get it out there because ahead of time you screen it for people.

Speaker 2 You see what they say. And the reaction is pretty consistent, interestingly.

Speaker 2 So, but now it's like, you know, I think your point about what you have to do, like the Minecraft movie or Barbie or, you know, it almost has to become like a cultural event, like where people are going acting the scenes.

Speaker 2 Like there's a whole reason to go do it. Kind of.
You know, something

Speaker 2 really, really good. And that's really what I've been doing.
You really believe in this? This movie is, listen, you know, absolutely.

Speaker 1 Would you come out and say it was good if it wasn't?

Speaker 2 Not like that.

Speaker 2 I would

Speaker 2 sort of talk around it or talk about, well, there's some things I like about it. But now I wouldn't even want a movie to go out theatrically.

Speaker 2 I didn't think it was going to work theatrically because it's, you know, I think, well,

Speaker 2 there's people that will watch this on streaming because I do think the bar is lower. And I think that different kinds of movies work on streaming.
And, you know, great movies work on streaming too.

Speaker 2 But I would say I would choose to do that. This was one that was supposed to be, I wasn't, you know, it wasn't like we're going to go out theatrically.

Speaker 2 It was when the movie came together and worked as well as it did. You know, we thought, this is definitely a theatrical movie.
And it's, it's, I think it's really good. I'm really proud of it.

Speaker 2 I love it. John Bernthal's great.
It's funny. John Burnham's better than the first one.
Yeah, John Bertha is my brother. He's great.
He's your brother? Yeah. That's To me, and we're like a two-hander.

Speaker 2 You know that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all are brothers? In the movie, he's not my real brother, but

Speaker 2 he's fucking amazing in the movie.

Speaker 1 He plays your, so wait, so who is the accountant or you can't tell me?

Speaker 2 The accountant? No, it's me, right? I'm this guy's accountant who's got, who's.

Speaker 1 Are you a CPA?

Speaker 2 I'm a CPA, but it's sort of one of these things where it's going to sound a little bit

Speaker 2 far-fetched when I tell you, but it's actually very plug- which is we grew up to obviously together as we're brothers, and we had this father that was very tough on us, like heavy-duty military guy.

Speaker 2 This is in the first movie, right? When we were kids, you see flashbacks, and he kind of was, you know, trained us.

Speaker 2 You've seen the first movie, right? This is the second one. You saw the first one me and John came out like eight years ago, didn't you? Oh, yeah.
Yeah. So this is the second one.
This is the sequel.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Sorry, man. I thought you couldn't put it together.

Speaker 2 But I think this actually, you know, which is rare, and I definitely wouldn't say this if it weren't true, is it's better than the first movie. It's funny.
It's got more kind of heart.

Speaker 2 It's, it's more broadly accessible.

Speaker 2 The action is better and i really liked the first movie so and you directed this one too no i acted a guy named gavin o'connor directed this movie who's a really good director who directed the first one and how do you um decide who is a good director because you're a good director yourself thank you um but i guess well the way you decide that honestly is by watching their movies okay you look at it and you go kind of you know uh and and and if it's something that you do you sort of watch it and you can tell even movies where there's instances where it's like might not be my kind of movie or it might you know my my taste but you can still say okay well this is somebody who really understands this is like a master this is somebody who's very competent um or it really is to you to my taste and i'm like this is amazing yeah but you know it's uh hard to get good at so you know there aren't very many great directors and that's that's one of the really tricky things about about making movies.

Speaker 2 I'm really like, this is the third time I've worked with this director, Gavin, and I really like the guy. He did Miracle.

Speaker 2 He did some movie Warrior.

Speaker 2 Warrior is with

Speaker 2 Joe Edgeon and Jill Jones.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 Charlotte Jones. Why my family's name? The dude from Venom.
Tom Hardy. Oh, yeah.
Joe Eston and Nick Nova. I also love him.
Yeah. And

Speaker 2 he did Miracle, which is about the Olympic hockey team.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, against Canada, America versus Canada, I think, or something like that.

Speaker 2 Russia.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Russia, the original. Oh, no.
Russia's like dirty Canada.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's kind of like, and that's, yeah, no offense to anybody who's Russian, but also, you know, it. So it's not like we're keeping secrets from him.

Speaker 2 Advertising.

Speaker 1 So is it, would you go work on it? So if you and John Bernthal, you guys are buddies, you get along well.

Speaker 2 I love the guy. Yeah, I knew him.
I liked him. So that makes you really close with him on this movie.
Yeah, we just hit it off really well.

Speaker 2 And it's like, I'm sure you experienced this like in your line of work. Like some people, you kind of just hit it off with the works.
It's great. Like, oh, my God.

Speaker 2 You don't even know kind of how it happens. And sometimes the chemistry is just not there.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Tim Dylan. Have you ever met seen Tim Dylan?

Speaker 2 No. What about him?

Speaker 1 Oh, you just got to watch him, dude. He's so funny.
He's just one of the funniest guys they ever made. He just made me think like he's somebody that's really funny.

Speaker 1 Shane Gillis.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Shane Gillis is funny. But I mean, so, but I'm saying, like, for you personally, right? Like, you might find that, like, you sitting down talking to somebody works.

Speaker 2 Even if somebody's great, they might come in and you guys just don't hit it off. Or you might be great together.

Speaker 2 In this case, I really felt like with John, like we got really lucky and we both kind of, it's like a two-hander.

Speaker 2 It's like a kind of odd couple sort of brother because I'm very reserved, very straight.

Speaker 2 He's very tough and ballsy and so like it you know what i mean and so we're kind of opposites but we love each other and but we're kind of brothers so we drive each other crazy and we frustrate each other and there's kind of those things really those kind of relationships dynamics in the stories really depend on the chemistry you have and john's a just amazing actor but also it was great to work with and i love the guy i respect him he's a good man he's a great father he works hard he's just everything i i i you know i've heard a lot of i've heard a lot of neat things about him because he podcasts as well you know i think or he has he might have to take breaks from it if he's acting a lot.

Speaker 1 Um, how long does like how long are you shooting something like that? And then, are there phases during a movie shoot where it's like

Speaker 1 it starts off, you know, it's like and you just kind of get burnt out?

Speaker 2 Like, or is there a way to kind of yeah, because the way they set it up is like you know, and I don't think this is like optimal necessarily, but because of how you gotta get everybody together and you know, build the sets and do all this shit and all at once, you know, it gets you end up working like you know, 14, 16 hour days.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, and uh, you know, there isn't, you know,

Speaker 2 it's a function of just some inefficiencies and the way it works. And sometimes it's just what you have to do.
So you're constantly working on sort of all you're thinking about morning, moon, night.

Speaker 2 And then you go home, go to sleep, wake up, go back to work.

Speaker 2 So you can get burnt out on it, but you can also like with accountant two, it was like, it started to just work better and better than I thought. And so every day I was thrilled to go to work.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? And I found as I get older, I'm like, I want to work with people that I really like. Yeah.
That make, cause like so much your life is spent at work.

Speaker 2 That becomes kind of what like, obviously, you know, I have my family. That's the number one thing in my life.
And I just make the time for that. I have my kids.
I'm divorced.

Speaker 2 I have them, you know, half the time. So I got them half the week.
Then I'm like with them. Those part of my life I'm going to spend at work.

Speaker 2 And that's, so I've realized like, if you want my life to be, if I want to be happy, I got to have fun. Then I want to be working with people that I really like and respect and enjoy being around.

Speaker 2 And it's not always easy to choose that. Not everybody can.
You get lucky, you know. And so I was, with this, it was really lucky.
I love John.

Speaker 1 Do um, have you ever made, yeah, because David Spade and I wrote a movie that we just shot a couple months ago. Oh, really? Yeah, so it was fascinating.
I've just kind of learned about how to do it.

Speaker 1 Like, we've been friends for a while.

Speaker 2 How long did you shoot for?

Speaker 1 Four years. We shot for 23 days, and we got.

Speaker 1 It was quick. We got pushed by the fires.
So everything kind of got messed up.

Speaker 1 And we kind of, not everything got messed up, but we got like sandwiched into moments where it was like, everybody's here. The winds are 40 miles an hour today.

Speaker 1 We have to shoot. There's no, we paid for it ourselves.
So it was like, we have to.

Speaker 2 Did you find out when people leave your own money on something, all of a sudden it's like okay we're gonna do this like people have a whole different attitude that's something i've found you know they're like oh we need a dalmatian i'm like we don't have a dalmatian we'll shave that sheep and fucking staple some

Speaker 2 tattoo some spots on this

Speaker 1 and shoot and with removable glue glue some oreos to it and get that bastard out there you know teach it to bark we have 40 minutes get on youtube and teach that thing to bark.

Speaker 1 Have you ever made a movie that you didn't put out or that wasn't put out?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 uh, early on, I made you know, a bunch of movies that were like independent movies that, you know, they didn't have like distribution.

Speaker 2 They didn't have like a studio that said, okay, we're paying for this, and when it's finished, we're going to put a bunch of money in advertising because you got to spend a bunch more money to advertise a movie after you make it.

Speaker 2 Right. And, or at least, you know, and that's one of the big things that's changing.
Now, people are like, okay, how can we do this in a more intelligent way?

Speaker 2 Because all that money spent on television commercials is just A, wasted now. That's that's why I'm here.
Like, this is a much more effective way to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 It seems exciting. Well, here's the thing.
I think when you tell me that it's good, I honestly think that I believe you that it's going to be good. Yeah, I'm telling the truth.

Speaker 2 The movie's really good. I wouldn't be like, if you had a movie that wasn't good,

Speaker 2 you kind of do a few of the basic things. And because, look, it's going to turn out like, you know, you're going to, it's going to be your bell curve one way or the other.

Speaker 2 The better you are, you're going to move your bell curve a little bit further down and have a better chunk of movies.

Speaker 2 But I got about like 12 movies that I really love and I'm proud of, and about 25 that are like, I like this, I didn't like that, I love it, you know, and about 10 or 12, whatever, that are like, that's fucking terrible.

Speaker 2 I hate this. I can't watch it.
And it was awful. And when I did independent movies, sometimes they just didn't get distribution.
Like no one wanted to put it out. Or I went to a film festival.

Speaker 2 I haven't had movies that were so, like, just something so terrible happened when the studio already was making it that it wasn't put out. But, you know, you have like they changed their plan.

Speaker 2 You can kind of see, oh, now we're going to shift to this or that.

Speaker 2 Now you can put something on streaming and it, you don't, it used to be like you were going to to go out theatrical, so you kind of were like naked. You just had your, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And if it didn't work, everybody knew because they'd say, look, this movie made 10 cents this weekend. And, you know, you'd want them to take the fucking billboard down.

Speaker 2 You'd drive past the billboard like,

Speaker 2 go to the bomb. The movie's a bomb.

Speaker 1 You're up there at night in your Batman costume, just painting over it.

Speaker 2 One of those

Speaker 1 paint reachers. Dude, did you ever see Family Man? Did you see that movie?

Speaker 1 I love that movie.

Speaker 1 That's like,

Speaker 1 oh, yeah. Family Man, I liked really a lot.
Dunkirk, I liked.

Speaker 2 I thought was cool. Chris Olin's a brilliant, brilliant guy.

Speaker 2 Tell me about your movie with Davis Spig. Who do you play? Like, what is it's comedy?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just Busboys. It's like he's like a

Speaker 1 guy. He's just like, we're just two kind of dumb guys or whatever.
We just got the first edit through. So it's like, I'm watching it right now.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you, like that first cut of the movie, like when I see the first cut of my own movie, I want to kill myself. Really? So like, you should not go crazy seeing the first cut and not like it.

Speaker 2 I almost have never, like, now I have a company and we make a a bunch of movies. And, you know, the first cut, it's, this is one of the only movies where the first cut came in.
I was like, it's great.

Speaker 2 Really? 90% of the time you're like, okay, we got a long way to go. It's a very iterative process.
They get better and more work is done after you finish shooting to make it good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 So I'm meeting with an editor next to you. Go ahead and sit down and be like, this is what's supposed to be funny about this scene.

Speaker 2 Like, and explain it to them, what you think is funny and is good, because they, it may seem obvious to you, and it probably doesn't to that person. Like, you can lose track of me.

Speaker 2 You go, look, the reason it's funny is because you think we're going to do this.

Speaker 2 We know this about us from the first, you know, whatever scene. And when it comes in, it's that take where I like yelled at the guy.
That should be a surprise.

Speaker 2 You'd be surprised how often it's hard to put a cut in. Go in and tell.

Speaker 1 It's still tough because I've been spending my nights like watching. And now I'm.

Speaker 2 It feels shitty, too, to put all that work into it and look at it and go, what the fuck is this? It's the worst feeling in the world.

Speaker 1 It feels fucking horrible because it's like I'm very particular about like what I create. Like you said in the beginning, it's like I like to make things.

Speaker 1 I know what I want, you know, it's like, I know my intuition. And if I fail on my intuition, then that's exactly where I want to fail because that's pure to me.
Right. Like that's okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And like, that's what you want to do. Great.
Right. But it's a very tricky thing for other people to know that.

Speaker 2 Yes. And to know, you know what I mean? Your sense of humor, your world view is all obvious to you, right? But it's just not to people.

Speaker 2 So a lot of times you have to spend like more time than you would have thought. literally going, here's what should be funny.

Speaker 2 If you can explain the joke, like you're a super funny guy, funny comedian, you understand comedy very well. So you can sit and break it down to him and go, like, you got to know this about it.

Speaker 2 What's funny is that, you know, we didn't expect me to do this.

Speaker 2 That's a callback to this other moment. Or the whole thing that when I did it, what I thought was funny is this take where I did that.

Speaker 2 Like, because on the set, I'm sure, you know, if you're doing a comedy and you shot it, you had moments where you were like, that's funny. Right.
That, I think that's funny. I think that's good.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You sometimes it's literally about going back into the dailies and saying, look, okay, go find the close-up or find this two-shot or the thing where I said to David and David looked at me like this and whatever.

Speaker 2 That was the one where I left and thought,

Speaker 2 that works. Like there's no mystery or magic to why they're doing it a different way.
They oftentimes just need feedback. It's, it, it, it is, this is not like sculpting or writing a novel.

Speaker 2 It's not a single person, you know, it's collaborative. It has to be collaborative, right?

Speaker 2 If I'm directing a movie with you in it and it obviously is going to have your comic sensibility, like, I got to know and get what's funny to you, or I'm not the guy. Right.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to need help along the way. Any director is going, like, so how come, what do you imagine about this? Or what do you think? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, that's why you have to explain it and sort of talk about it because that person's got to understand all those things that made you be funny in the first place and start going, oh, people are laughing when I say, oh, these are funny.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? And you've put it together and professionalized it. But like you got to share that with them.
Otherwise, really.

Speaker 2 And then this is also where people sometimes get into fights, of course, because people's ego gets in the way. But ego will kill you.
You have to be able to hear, I don't care what you do.

Speaker 2 You have to be able to hear like this doesn't work this is dog shit because the audience will tell you you know what i mean that's the thing and it's like i'm so particular i'm not particular but i just know what kind of has worked you know that's valuable because not everybody does so what you have right is that awareness you don't think about it you don't have you feel it right you're like this feels funny or when you see something you're like this feels wrong like makes you uncomfortable right you see yeah so that is a thing that's unique to you right so you need to

Speaker 2 like give them access to that and get it and when you you know and if somebody's gonna like take it personally it's it's not personal like it's your you know and what david thought was funny like okay like you have to be connected in that way and you have to understand that it's not about like okay you guys now i'm gonna go make my vision of this thing no that's a disaster no no no i just think like yeah like this is why this was written this way and this is why it's funny and so this is the first time that we're like more hands-on with it well then you should definitely be hands-on because by the way no one's gonna do it for you right oh i agree with that on its own man it's gonna get better if you get in and work on it and by the way you're gonna see it again and you're gonna have to go okay, closer.

Speaker 2 Now let's try this. Let's try that.
And then again, the way movies get better really is iterative.

Speaker 2 It's like coats of paint. You know what I mean? You got to keep on going.
It's like a good paint job on a car. It's like 12 coats of paint.
That's why it looks good. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Do movies take a long time to edit sometimes?

Speaker 2 Yeah. 26 weeks is the post-production schedule for most movies, right? That includes music,

Speaker 2 yeah. And it's longer than the production schedule.
You're trying to grab everything you can during production. It's more expensive every day to shoot.

Speaker 2 Editing is, you rent the editing room, the facilities.

Speaker 1 We needed an owl one day. We had an owl, right? This bitch, it was $1,100 an hour.
For an owl? Yeah, it was like a semi-endangered. I don't want to say in danger or whatever, but it was like writ at.

Speaker 2 Do they charge more if it's like, you know what I mean? Like, if you can get a chicken, they're not in danger. You can kill.
That shit just cut his head off. That's $10.
I can't go for the owl.

Speaker 2 You can get a tall chicken.

Speaker 2 No one's going to know the difference. You can take the chicken, break his neck, and he's turned around.

Speaker 2 You can get a tall, curious chicken. We'll give you that.
that. And so I think maybe that's just like one of those things where it's like, what's the rate for owls?

Speaker 2 You just get to make it up if you sell owls.

Speaker 1 It's just so, it's like, God, you get into there and there's just all this animal entrapment. I, um,

Speaker 1 what else was I thinking about? Would you let your children act? Well, let's, I want to talk to you a little bit more about directing. So,

Speaker 1 um, because Argo, you directed, right? And did you care about the Middle East? That much really like a Middle East guy. I know you, I've read some of it.

Speaker 2 I'm not really, I did, I did study the Middle East in school, and so I understood

Speaker 2 about it. I wouldn't make a movie that I didn't, it'd be like making a movie with you and not getting your humor, right? Like it would just be crazy.

Speaker 2 Like, you, if, as the director, you got to care more and be more interested in that movie than everybody else. Everyone else is going to be bored of it, right?

Speaker 2 And you got to love it the whole time through. So, the big key is like, this is going to be interesting to me.
There was a lot of things that were interesting to me about that movie.

Speaker 2 One was the real story, the CIA agent, who had done it,

Speaker 2 the people that I met and talked to at the CIA, the actual nature of like intelligence work versus, you know, what you have seen with a like, you know, you know, like super spy shit that's not really realistic.

Speaker 2 And this story was really interesting to me.

Speaker 2 And also I thought it was like the fact that they had this like bizarre connection to Hollywood and this Hollywood makeup artist and that we were trying to bridge those two worlds was was really interesting to me.

Speaker 2 But it was a scary, challenging movie because the director's main job is tone, right? Like that's the main, that's what the director is going to really create is like, what's the tone of this?

Speaker 2 Like, what's the vibe? What's are we, is this serious? What are we interested in? Like, what do we consider funny?

Speaker 2 What do we, you know, all those things that, that, you know, go into all the choices we make in life from the car you get, the clothes you buy, all that. What kind of, what is your taste?

Speaker 2 And not everybody's going to like it, right? Some people, it's just not going to be their taste. You got to at least make it as good as you can.

Speaker 2 to your own taste, to like you said, your own instincts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to find that tone that matches because people want to believe, they're going to expect a certain tone from you as well, I think.

Speaker 2 You know, and when you don't, when that tone doesn't work, you're like, this is kind of cranned. This cheese is fucking, fucking, you know what I mean? Corny.
It's like, it seems silly or whatever.

Speaker 2 And it's like, because you're asking someone to take something seriously that they can't take seriously or think is funny that they don't think is funny.

Speaker 2 And that's where it's a tricky, kind of nebulous job. But that's the most interesting, to me, important thing about it.
And that's,

Speaker 2 yeah. You know.

Speaker 1 Do you, would you let your children act, do you think?

Speaker 2 Well, I wouldn't let them act professionally while they were children, no.

Speaker 2 But I would let, you know, if they want to do plays and shit and make their own kind of stuff with their friends, that's fine.

Speaker 2 I don't think it would be, I don't know judgment against people that do it. I've done playing movies with child actors and stuff.
Oh, yeah. And that's fine.
From my experience, acting as a kid and

Speaker 2 what I want for my children

Speaker 2 is not that. But also, you got to understand that then they, you know, I got a 19-year-old, one 16, I want 13.
Oh, wow. They make their own choices.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
That's true. Right.
As a dad, you're just like, that is that, is that got to be tough for when you're a dad, like you kind of have already lived some life.

Speaker 1 So you were like, ah, and not even about acting, it's about anything.

Speaker 1 And then your kid is kind of like making it like, is that, and you don't want to like probably push them too much or like, because then you're pressuresome, dude.

Speaker 1 That's got to be a real, like, walking up police line or something. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's the whole. job of life.
It's like for me, even before I had kids, you know, I didn't really realize what my life was about. And then this becomes the central challenge of your life.

Speaker 2 And, and if you have a, everybody has complications and tricky shit in their life.

Speaker 2 And that's part of being a parent is managing that with what kind of life am I bringing my kids into, making a good life for my children. How do we, you know,

Speaker 2 and that, that's part of that is my kids are growing up out here in L.A. I didn't grow up in LA.
I didn't, I never met a famous person or actor or anything.

Speaker 2 That shit just seemed like a million miles away to me and totally.

Speaker 2 If you're in the rest of the world,

Speaker 1 it feels so far away. And then you forget after you're here for a while how far away it seems to other people.

Speaker 1 Like if you meet, you know, like just anybody who was in it, it just like, that's like, it was a loser.

Speaker 2 I remember I was 12 years old in Boston and I saw

Speaker 2 Christopher Lloyd, who played the dude on Back to the Future, you know? Yeah. And I saw him walking down the street.
I think he was doing a play. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 I followed the guy for like six blocks. Like now I'd be like, there's this fucking 12-year-old kid following me, right? You know what I mean? Like I stalked him.

Speaker 2 Like I couldn't believe it that it was the guy from Back to the Future. I lost my mind.

Speaker 2 And it was the only, you know, celebrity, famous, whatever person I'd ever seen or know. And so my kids are now, they are seeing different stuff.

Speaker 2 Some of it's useful for them because it disabuses them of some illusions that I think are worth being disabused of.

Speaker 2 And also, but I'm also like, I don't, look, they're going to, if you, if you, their kids are going to kind of be and do what, who they are, what they want to do, which your job is to let them know that they're loved, that they're keep them safe, you know, provide them opportunities.

Speaker 2 And also not, you know, you got to resist the temptation to try to get everything out of the way for them because you're not going to learn anything or develop any grid or or uh resilience if shit's just easy yeah that's crazy i never even thought about that it's like you're watching them walk and there's something kind of in their path and if you take it away completely then they're not going to learn how to deal with an obstacle but if you leave it there then you're going to have to watch them go through an obstacle that's got to be crazy and it is hard watching your kids the like even trying to climb over something your instinct is pick them up take them over but you have to like yes you don't want to put their finger in a socket you know what i mean or off a cliff.

Speaker 2 And, but that doesn't mean

Speaker 2 life has to be hard. Yeah.
It has to be difficult in some ways. It doesn't have to be, shouldn't be traumatic, shouldn't be, you know, awful or painful, but

Speaker 2 things have to be hard for you to learn to do hard things. And this world, like it or not, is going to demand that you do hard shit.

Speaker 2 If you want to have anything, you know, if you want to be able to provide for your own family, have your own dreams, have, you know, the things that you want to have.

Speaker 2 Because if you don't do it, the guy next to you is going to do it better, or, you you know, or the woman over here is going to do it better, and you're going to lose out.

Speaker 2 And also, you know, I don't want my kids to have that first big

Speaker 2 tough experience in life and like kind of fall apart. You know, you got to like some of the best lessons I ever learned in life were from failure.
In fact, for sure, I didn't learn much from success.

Speaker 2 I learned a lot from failure. You know what I mean? But the most important thing you learn is that you can survive it.
You can be okay. They can knock you the fuck down.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's like getting, like, when I was a kid, where I grew up,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 we used to get in fights all the time. Oh, fight all the time.

Speaker 2 And you found out that you beat the shit out of me. You punched you in the face.
You get your ass kicked. And that's not, and you'd be like, yeah, he kicked your ass.

Speaker 2 And you'd go like, and you get up and you come to school the next day. And you know what I mean? It's kind of like a tough day, dude.
That first day was so tough. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're like, damn, Randy kicked your ass. It's worse that you have to hear about it than like just getting hit five times.
It's like, yeah, you kind of get your bell rung. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 But it's the like, that's kind of going back to that thing about like embarrassment.

Speaker 2 Like, kids will suffer more from being humiliated than physically hurt. For example, like, that's the shit that really is painful.
But now, I don't, I don't wish to be clear that on my kid.

Speaker 2 Like, you don't need to be fighting and shit all the time.

Speaker 2 But it's, you know, it is valuable to know that you can fail or have something difficult happen really painful or get your heart broken, have some girl be like, you know, be like, I don't like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Embarrass you, whatever. You're going to be okay.

Speaker 2 These things are not going kill you in fact they actually do make you stronger if you kind of go like okay that was if i didn't have some of the resilience that i picked up by you know my early life trying to you know see

Speaker 1 i would have just kind of given up or collapsed or had weeks of bad people say bad i'd be like oh you know and i'd fall down and never get up again yeah you'd have no experience and you also it sharpens your intuition you start to it all learns it's all it is if you can see yourself as a tool sometimes it's definitely harder when you're younger because some of those feelings are new and it hurts so much, you know?

Speaker 2 Here's the thing, getting better at anything never feels good. Like if you're building resilience, it's not a time that you're liking.
You know what I mean? It doesn't feel good.

Speaker 2 Like, so that's what, okay, I don't like this.

Speaker 2 This feels like shit, but because it's hard, because I can't lift these weights anymore because I can't, these other, you know, I'm exhausted and the other kids are still, you know, running sprints or whatever.

Speaker 2 You know.

Speaker 2 But like those are the moments for what it's worth where you're getting better.

Speaker 1 What is um, what's something that you admire about each of your children just so one day they can look back and

Speaker 1 know?

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 2 I mean, the thing I really, that I care most about, and it's true of all three of my kids, is that all of them have like an innate goodness of character, like a kindness.

Speaker 2 They don't, they're not trying to go out and hurt other people.

Speaker 2 And they have empathy. Like they care about and respect other people.
Doesn't mean, you know,

Speaker 2 that obviously they don't make mistakes or they're perfect or whatever.

Speaker 2 But that basic thing about them is it is really really important i think it's it's definitely also credit to their mom who's who's amazing and who's spectacular and is great like we're divorced but we we i think do pretty good together uh raising the kids going back and forth and all that stuff and they're i mean they're all looked at i think you know like any parent you're gonna be like my kids so cool and my

Speaker 1 like something you admire like individually about them that's maybe unique i think my oldest

Speaker 2 no not at all listen i think truly um

Speaker 2 there's so much that I don't want, I just don't want to come off. And I know my kids will be like, dad, don't fucking go on there and talk about me.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So like my son especially is like, dude, he's right now watching this. It's like, oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 But here's the truth. My, my oldest one has got a beautiful like commitment and sense of like wanting to make the world truly a better place.
And she'll put her money where her mouth is.

Speaker 2 Like she doesn't want to do something. She's not asking other people to do.
She makes personal sacrifices. She has that kind of integrity.
You know, my middle child is really

Speaker 2 is this incredible, like,

Speaker 2 feels things deeply, like, artist, you know,

Speaker 2 kind of is brilliant and so funny. And my son has got like this incredible, like, joy of life and magnetism and sweetness and goodness to him.

Speaker 2 Um, and like, that's the stuff where it's like, whether you can like dunk a basketball or write a great paper, like great.

Speaker 2 And I'm not, you know, but like that, that's the shit that to me is more important than like kind of internal character stuff. Yeah, that's cool, dude.

Speaker 1 That's nice, man. Yeah.
It's nice to hear dads talk about their kids, you know? I think sometimes you just don't hear it enough sometimes, you know? I agree.

Speaker 2 I think it's,

Speaker 2 it's so important. Like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Most important thing in the world. There's not as many male leaders.
There's not as many male teachers as there were.

Speaker 1 There's not as many, like there's, there's a space where we're missing a gap of mentorship from male to male because a lot of people, well, some people were pedophiles, whatever.

Speaker 1 But outside of those people, it's like there's not as many.

Speaker 2 Let's rule those fuckers out.

Speaker 2 These guys are out.

Speaker 1 Well, also, anybody pop ratio who's driving around taking pictures of kids, anybody else would be arrested for taking a photo of a kid in public.

Speaker 2 But, but, and I think absolutely boys need

Speaker 2 and so do girls. Like, you need to see that there's good men.
You need to understand that good men are accountable. They tell the truth.
They say they're sorry when they make a mistake.

Speaker 2 They're strong. You can rely on them.
They're funny, like that they can show you strength and love and

Speaker 2 all this stuff that is good and beautiful.

Speaker 2 And what you, the people you want to be drawn to in your future life about masculinity you want to know and see that modeled and if you don't first of all you in your their children who are expecting because we're as children we're expecting to have that typical if you don't it you up and if you don't see what that looks like you don't know kind of what to look for oh yeah dude did you have a fun like do you have a memory of your dad that was like fun with for you i'm trying to think of one my dad would dude my dad was like i'm trying to my dad was really old when i was born and so my dad was 70 when he when i was born right he was born in 1910.

Speaker 1 dad was uh a serious guy yeah i wish he had some money which was crazy because usually if a woman's hooking up with an older guy he's got he's got some money

Speaker 2 what did your dad have going for him it was not

Speaker 1 it must have been charming he didn't have a bank must he was very charming my dad was very very charming but he would like take me to the like um he would like go sometimes have a beer by like this bar at the railroad tracks and he would like let me walk on the bar he'd like and they had like these little bowl of chocolates or whatever and if the bartender i remember if i danced good she would like give me some some of the chocolates or whatever and he'd be like go wiggle for chocolates or whatever and I remember so I just remember I think you like when my dad pimped me out that was a good time

Speaker 1 Well, he was just a he was just pimping me for confections, you know or sugars, you know it was kind of an outtake from that movie Chuck a lot if you've ever seen that but um but yeah, he would be like go wiggle for chocolates and I just remember that was one thing that I remember anyway.

Speaker 1 Sorry I made that about me.

Speaker 2 It was nice to take that walk down memory lane. Yeah, it's fun.
Well,

Speaker 1 there's things I remember about it, like the bowls of peanuts and just like being in a bar like at like 5 p.m. Cause my dad was older.
He would go to rest. He would rest pretty early.

Speaker 2 That's funny because I was going to say, oh, I don't have

Speaker 2 that kind of memories of my dad, really. But the truth is, like, you know, after he got out of the house, you know, as a kid, he worked at bars.
And so that's where I'd go see him up at the bars.

Speaker 2 And he was like a bookie and, you know, taking bets on the side. Oh, really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, a little bit. And he was,

Speaker 2 but that's what he did. He was bartender.
And then

Speaker 2 for for that, for that period of life when I was kind of eight, nine, ten, eleven, did they have a jukebox in there or anything? Yeah, jukebox, and then he'd be like, oh, go get the cigarette machine.

Speaker 2 And I went in the bar, it was cool to visit him in there. The cigarette machine, they had that pull out.

Speaker 2 And by those days, when they'd be like, tell you, the kid, like, go to the store and get me some cigarettes. You walk in eight years old, buy cigarettes.
I said, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 But yeah, and also we were, I mean, my brother goes to the bar.

Speaker 2 And that, that, those are, there was some, I do have some kind of fond memories of

Speaker 2 that. I I wish I had more of them, which is one of the reasons why

Speaker 2 it's important for me in my life to make sure I don't fuck, you know, that I create those for my own children.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that's something that we probably learn, I think, as we go along.

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Speaker 1 what else is something i want to ask you about did you

Speaker 1 was it weird were you um

Speaker 1 were you famous before your brother was famous is that a weird question uh not at all.

Speaker 2 You know, I guess, yeah, a little bit, like in the sense that he was in Goodwill Hunting with me and Matt.

Speaker 2 And he was brilliant in it.

Speaker 2 And then, but, you know, like anybody, like, and Matt's like, who's like, you know, my best friend as a kid and stuff, like Matt Damon, you know, you had like, and he got more famous off Goodwill Hunting and then my brother, you know, so you kind of, and you know people, if you really like, try to map it out, like those sort of how famous are, which is kind of a weird and a hard thing to tell.

Speaker 2 I agree. It kind of moves around, but my brother was always a working actor, and then he became, you know,

Speaker 2 he really established himself, of course, won the Oscar for acting and kind of established himself as a great actor and

Speaker 2 had a more steady kind of art.

Speaker 1 Pittsburgh number with Michelle.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You're talking about

Speaker 2 Manchester by the Sea. Yeah.
Yeah. That's what he won the Oscar for.
He was amazing in that movie. Yeah.

Speaker 1 God, it was so good. Is it, yeah, I just saw him.

Speaker 2 He's a great actor, my brother.

Speaker 1 Is it,

Speaker 1 yeah, are you guys pretty close?

Speaker 2 We are, you know, we're we're we're close. We um he's got great kids.

Speaker 1 I love his kids, and uh, he's a great guy, and you know, you you know, um because you get through phases in life, too, where you're kind of like people are you're kind of doing the same thing or you're just in different spaces.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what happens when you kind of really like get a little older, and then we were like up to 30 or whatever. I was just like hanging out with guys all the time.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 We were going out, we're doing this, we're whatever. And that was kind of life, most of it.
And so you see all your friends all the time.

Speaker 2 And my brother was one one of the, you know, we'd all hang out. And then you have kids and you have family.
And then it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to have Friday at five or whatever for seven.

Speaker 2 And then you kind of have to, you lose a little bit of that bigger network of like, who, who are the, like, I know who 10 of these guys are. Who are the other six?

Speaker 2 You know, that starts to kind of go away. And you kind of have to be more selective.
But.

Speaker 2 you know, my brother's is a brilliant, funny, amazing guy.

Speaker 1 And his kids are, it's a joy to see his kids grow up and be, you know, being an uncle's fun oh it's the best because then you don't really you can kind of just like let them do shit you know you don't have to be really the dad yeah you know i'll tell you this so there was um i live in nashville so i moved there about four years ago and there was so the other night there's like tornadoes or something and i didn't know like and i live in like it's a nice airboat but it's nothing crazy it's not like rich enough where you're away from tornadoes you know i you better be pretty how rich you have to be to get away from tornadoes i don't know i'm still in the wind district you know so there's a freaking tornado warning there's sirens going off over town i didn't even know we had sirens so i'm texting my nephew thank god i called him twice and then finally i text him i was like dude uh

Speaker 1 i was like bro tornado warning what do i do and he's in middle school or whatever and thank god he's like get under your desk that's what he fucking says at 4 a.m and i was like dude i don't have a fucking desk you know what i'm saying and he goes don't curse at me over text and i'm like this kid does not know how to support a family member it's just like

Speaker 2 That's hilarious. Anyway, I don't even know what I told you that story about.

Speaker 1 What are we talking about? Weather? I'm not

Speaker 1 family members and what it's like to be an uncle. Yeah.
I get to see my nieces and they're coming for Easter tomorrow, so I'm excited about that. But yeah,

Speaker 2 being an uncle is so. How many like nieces and nephews you got?

Speaker 1 I got five total. One of them just went to prom, so I got to be there when she took pictures.
I was in Baton Rouge for that. Awesome.

Speaker 1 It's fun. Yeah.
And you kind of get to be like a little bit of the confidante. Like you're kind of like on the edge of that.

Speaker 2 Because they'll tell you stuff that's kind of like you can't talk to your parents about like whatever you know some things but you can kind of let you know the uncle kind of know and you so you can be kind of on the side a little bit a little cooler even if you're really not that much cool and you're like man don't try to play it off like that but you kind of get away with it a little bit and you know you got to like you can't you can't push it you know what i mean but it's like and you got to know when to snitch too on him too and tell the dad what's going on exactly did you um let me think about a movie thing oh did you get to keep your batman outfit i did yeah i did in fact that's at our uh office and it's um

Speaker 2 it's one of those things people like it's like uh it's one of those things that's sort of like

Speaker 2 i don't know people like to see it it kind of reminds me a little bit of like planet hollywood a little bit so i'm always like i don't get this bats rubber bat suit here it's just yeah but it's like i don't know it's hard to tell like look i get it that's a kind of a cool movie souvenir sometimes i feel like if you put a grapefruit on like TV every week, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And then you just put it to the mall, people will go by and be like, oh, there's that grapefruit from TV. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So it's sometimes hard to tell whether something's interesting because it's interesting or because but but I can see how that is kind of interesting the most interesting about it when people see it is like damn how do you wear this and it's true it is like of all the those type of roles and stuff like the superhero thing that the outfits make it a lot harder to do your job because you're kind of constrained and they're real hot it's like you know when like wrestlers like when i was a kid used to run around with like trash bags to lose weight because you just dump all the water you know what i mean like that's sort of what those outfits oh yeah you'd see like some guy that's with his yeah you see some guy in your neighborhood who's on the wrestling team or whatever i knew they wrestlers yeah exactly had a wrestling team and then he's running down the street like california race

Speaker 2 yeah exactly 15 pounds in 10 minutes you know what i mean

Speaker 1 he's just spitting on his family members and he's just cursing because they say cursing helps you burn calories or whatever um yeah that's kind of interesting but you would but you never like put it back on for anything fun or to surprise

Speaker 2 i did it for my kid's birthday when he was yeah my son's birthday And he was like, he was a little young, but it was fun. I got the pictures now.

Speaker 2 Now he's like, I guess that was cool that you did that. At the time, I didn't know what the fuck you were doing.
And I'm like, but it was cool, though. Do I get credit for it now? He's like, I guess.

Speaker 2 He barely, but I had fun. And that was the whole reason I did it.
Like, Lumbee Batman, my son, like, how cool is it? Your dad's Batman. My son was like, you know, three and shit.

Speaker 2 And so he was like scared of the movie.

Speaker 2 But, you know, since then, it's like

Speaker 2 it's become kind of in retrospect, I think, kind of cool. It's hard to tell what your kids think is cool because most of the time they're kind of like, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they don't really tell you kind of, because it's almost like you're like,

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. I just watched my brother have nephews, like, I want to get a wife and children.
I don't have a wife yet, but um, yeah, you all.

Speaker 2 Look, your parents are never going to be like, because like part of the thing is, like, you don't, you can't like, you need to separate from your parents, right?

Speaker 2 You need to like move away, get out of the house, that whole thing, like move on, become your own, your own man, and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 And if you're too wrapped up in like your folks, and you know, you can, you know, it gets in the the way of that right yeah you got to start to slowly separate in those ways that kids do so there's part of it where they're like you know and it comes off like where I'm like hey you guys want to play some games close the door yeah get out of my room close the room I'm like just so just leave you know what I mean

Speaker 1 and then there's that moment it's the first time you kind of close the door and there's that moment where the dad's just by the door and he's kind of sad that he's in the hall but then he goes in his room he takes three steps and he's like oh good I got some free time

Speaker 1 but there is that moment it is yeah absolutely and they come back around you know what I mean do you think um I auditioned for a Project Greenlight movie that you guys had years ago? Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was one where there was like a guy in a wheelchair and there were like dangerous people were coming in. Like you were trapped in a bar or something.

Speaker 2 Beast, maybe the horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I just remembered that.

Speaker 2 That's crazy. Did you audition for it? Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I was not any good. Wow.
I'm not a good ad. I would not.
I think it's a bad idea to do that. I just,

Speaker 1 but anyway, I just remember that. It popped in my head.
Do you still have Project Greenlight?

Speaker 2 It's,

Speaker 2 no, it's not. I mean, it's not currently.
We did it with the company. We have them, but we are not doing it now.
And we took it, we, we had it on for a while back then and then brought it back.

Speaker 2 And it's interesting. I really liked it.
And I thought it was interesting that like, cause it's, because that's what I do. And I know, okay, that's tricky.
Like, it's hard.

Speaker 2 You got all this drama that comes up on a movie. But when we had like a million dollars to make the movie and everybody like, a million dollars, like, that's like nothing.

Speaker 2 And now it's almost setting people up.

Speaker 2 It would kind of just be like, then you'd just be doing a show about people getting in arguments and smashing things and having a breakdown because you can't really even do it for a million dollars.

Speaker 2 Like, times have changed unions and wages and all that stuff. Like, you're, you know,

Speaker 2 so, but I really liked that idea of that show and what we were able because to me, it was about like also creating opportunities for people that are

Speaker 2 outside Hollywood,

Speaker 2 you know, who could come in and be like, Look, I know what I'm doing, I want to do something. And then you got to, like, okay, well, let's see what you can do.

Speaker 1 What, um,

Speaker 1 do you think Tom Brady's good as an announcer?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think Tom's good as an announcer. I think he's

Speaker 2 look, me too, dude. I think he's really smart, obviously, about football.
I think that like it's a, it's a, um, people kind of, even you're the, like, the greatest quarterback that ever lived.

Speaker 2 They're thinking, okay, now he's going to come in and change broadcasting.

Speaker 2 And it, and like, just being a normal human being seems kind of like, but I, I, I mean, who do you want to listen to analyze something?

Speaker 2 Like, if I want to, like somebody tell me about like a mute, you know, a concert, like I want to hear from, you know, some great musician.

Speaker 2 You know, if I'm, if you're, you figure, well, nobody's going to have better or wiser

Speaker 2 analysis than Tom. He's maybe not about like telling jokes or whatever.
That's something different. Yeah.
But yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 But he's a surgeon. He seems like a surgeon when he's talking about it and the way he breaks down certain moments and how long it takes to do certain things.

Speaker 1 He's like, well, they got about this many yards. They're going to have to move about

Speaker 1 this many yards a second. Like he's definitely, you start to see who he really is.

Speaker 2 Like how much analysis went into that.

Speaker 2 I still think one of his like real, like one of the things that really separated him, because you know, everybody knows about how like, you know, he, you know, he was like drafted late and all this stuff, like, and this, you know, his, his like combine numbers weren't like, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 People weren't just like, this guy's going to be amazing.

Speaker 2 I feel like one of the things that he has that people don't really talk about is like, and this is so fucking important is like, I feel like he, he has this thing where he doesn't get tight.

Speaker 2 He just doesn't get nervous.

Speaker 2 Like, I think that there is a huge advantage. Imagine like you're in the Super Bowl.
Oh, yeah. And it's like, you know, fourth and eight, and and you got, you know, seven seconds or whatever.

Speaker 2 And you win. You're good.
Everyone else's heart rate is banging their head. Adrenaline's going to be like it's what makes actors good too.
Good actors at certain moments.

Speaker 2 Getting relaxed, the ability to relax in tense situations where other people get tense, because tension and stress, it locks you up. You know, you panic.
It's like everything, it's all bad.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's horrible.

Speaker 1 That's when it's, yeah, dude, it's definitely there's moments. The first time I would ever audition, I was like, open the windows, open the windows.
I'm like, there's not a lot of windows in here.

Speaker 1 And they're like, they're already open. I remember I was kept blacking out.
And then I had to like do some scene that I didn't even care about. What are we doing here? Why are we doing that?

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. That was not a plan.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, dude. I want to tell you about, do you ever see that Dunkin' Donuts commercial? Because I know you did a commercial with them.
Yeah. You ever see the one where they shut down that one?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 is it Boy Shoboy?

Speaker 2 What is it?

Speaker 1 The play. Shamokin.

Speaker 2 Dunkin's clothes by five. Favorite, dude.

Speaker 6 A coffee shop in Shamokin is closed following an arson over the weekend. Police say a teenager is responsible for all that damage.
Please watch 16's Nikki Cries.

Speaker 6 Joins us live from the Central Pennsylvania newsroom with more tonight, Nikki.

Speaker 8 Julie, a lot of people in Shimokin are upset that Dunkin' Donuts is closed because they didn't have anywhere else to go for coffee and donuts.

Speaker 8 Today, we also learn new information about the teenage girl police charged with setting the place on fire.

Speaker 8 Setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center. Many people who live in Shimokan are upset that Dunkin' Donuts is closed.

Speaker 7 Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a Turkey Hill or something where I don't like their donuts. I'd rather the donuts at Dunkin' Donuts.

Speaker 7 And I'm kind of dealing with it, but I really miss Dunkin' Donuts.

Speaker 9 I go there every day. I get a chicken baker croissant or I get some coffee, power rate.
If I'm dehydrated, I sit there all the time. If I have any like legal work that I need to do, I go there.

Speaker 9 I meet with my attorneys there.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna miss that first call if it don't open up.

Speaker 7 Yeah, a lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee.

Speaker 6 What iced coffee, I guess it's called.

Speaker 8 People miss their local hangout and hope don't.

Speaker 1 Anyway, that's just that.

Speaker 2 When that one closed down, man, it was just like a real people kind of with bananas on the because it turns out, guys, that's the legal clinic got shut down, too.

Speaker 2 I sit there with my legal work. My, you know, my probation officer meets me in there.
I usually deal out of that place. Like, all right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You just, you don't know when a Dunkin' Donuts closes down, you don't realize how many lives intersected that.

Speaker 2 That community is paralyzed. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What's something else that you want to direct, man? Is there something? What about you directing Timothy Chalamet? That'd be so dope.

Speaker 2 Oh, he's a terrific actor, man.

Speaker 2 He's great. You know, and I think, and that's really what you kind of like, no matter what you do, a big part of it is, you know, 90% of it is, as they say, is like picking the...

Speaker 2 the right actors because there's really nothing you can do. You're kind of like, okay, now go ahead.

Speaker 2 And you can, you know, get about 10% calibration, but the right people for the right role is is is so much a part of what goes into directing it's why I was talking about like kind of understanding what people sort of think about or assumptions they have about actors that they are going to watch there's a lot of um actors that I would love to work with I haven't worked with them I've been lucky to have worked with some great ones so far and I have I have a movie that I've just finished shooting called Animals that's uh movie out on Netflix that I directed

Speaker 2 yeah and I got and I may even direct another movie uh next year which is actually pretty quick, but it's not all set up yet. But it's something that I really love doing.

Speaker 2 And I will do it, like, especially like as I got one kid that's, you know, in college now.

Speaker 2 And the other two, like, by the time my son, who's, who's 13, goes to college, they're not planning on kind of just directing all the time. But like I said, it takes so much focus and energy that.

Speaker 2 One of the regrets I have even about movies that I really like and I'm proud of is like what periods of time that I miss with my kids because that just doesn't come back.

Speaker 2 You you almost have to plan ahead like okay maybe they're going to be on a semester abroad or this is going to be like this last I'm like I do them in LA you know what I mean so I'm not traveling so I'm going to be home for dinner and come you know and just make that a make that the priority but it's it's it's a part of what why I slow down a bunch from directing because it just in order to do it in the way that I understood that it required like it just requires almost total commitment and concentration yeah man because we yeah we got to keep telling good stories because it's important that's how people learn things and that's how you remember things and they become part of like you know history They really kind of tell history a lot of times.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's definitely interesting about,

Speaker 1 oh, you said something about, oh, yeah, the shooting in Hollywood has become so tough, huh? But

Speaker 1 it's supposed to be getting easier.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, it's tricky because what happened, one of the things that's happened is that like, first of all, movies just used to be made here. Like, you know, country music was made everywhere.

Speaker 2 Like that's how it was.

Speaker 2 And then you had other states and countries that started kind of offering incentives because they felt like, you know, if we bring this business here and like it stimulates all our other businesses, because there's this huge kind of trickle-down effect of from the restaurants, the dry cleaners, the drivers, to blah, blah, blah, blah, all this money into the economy.

Speaker 2 And, you know, LA or California didn't really, I think, whatever, I'm not sure what people respond or try to compete. They have a small incentive now and they've actually broadened it some.

Speaker 2 And I think they're aware of it, but

Speaker 2 it's tricky. Whereas other states, and they're kind of controversial.
Some states have felt like they worked out for them and they're happy. Georgia's got a huge incentive program.

Speaker 2 They get, oh, I mean, you know, Marvel moves shoot down there. I got placed in Georgia, and I, you know, that's, that's, I filmed in Georgia.

Speaker 2 It's, it's, in fact, the count was, we filmed in Georgia, and that's why, right? They start offering the incentives, obviously, been successful for

Speaker 1 California's ego about it in some weird way. It's hard to figure out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm not, I don't really know enough about the politics of it to know. It seems to me like, I think it's like, well, we've always had it here.
We don't have to give the incentives.

Speaker 2 Like, that's what's pulling people around.

Speaker 1 But it's like at a certain point, you have to do it.

Speaker 2 But now, everybody's moved and moving away and moving around. And if you can't make a movie without the crew, is what's going to make or break your movie.

Speaker 2 Now, you have 3,000 people flying to like Tibet or whatever to shoot for, you know, like the UK, they give out, they do these big readers, so like you know, they did for Harry Potter movies and all the like DZ movies, all these this stuff goes and shoots like out of the country.

Speaker 2 Uh, you know, look, it's

Speaker 2 I obviously selfishly like, this is where my kids are. So this is where I want to be.
But also, the best technicians, I believe, in the world by and large are here and they're really artists too.

Speaker 2 And they're ready to work too.

Speaker 1 A lot of them are. They're not working.

Speaker 2 And look, they have these fires and all this stuff. It's like, but look, it's hard all over, and I get it.
I don't begrudge anybody anything. I would like to

Speaker 2 preserve, like, look, it's a big business for this country, right? Like, show business. This is something that we make that everybody buys all over the world.
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 We buy a lot of shit from other countries, right? Like, this is something that people want to buy from us.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm amazed that I was talking about this with somebody, and it may have been,

Speaker 1 damn, I can't remember. My brain's off on the weekend, but

Speaker 1 we're talking about how California hasn't really done a great job of like

Speaker 1 kind of museuming some of the

Speaker 1 all a lot of great parts about that were in movies and like, you know, Sidney Poitier, this is where he lived for 20 years or, you know, this is the bad news bears park where they play.

Speaker 2 Brady Bunch house. Right.

Speaker 1 There's some of it, but and it's like bits and pieces on the internet, but it doesn't seem as preserved. Like when you get here, you almost think

Speaker 1 it would seem like more of a museum in itself.

Speaker 2 Because at the time, I think people just didn't think about it or somebody's house they rented or whatever it was.

Speaker 2 But yeah, they haven't really, I mean, you know, you can do some of these tours and stuff, but it's kind of like, I think California, I'm not, I still feel like, even though I'm a resident now, like that, I'm from somewhere else, you know, from Boston and stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. Makes a change.
California is like,

Speaker 2 is felt, I think, in a way, like, hey, people come here. You know what I mean? So we don't need to bring people here, but like times are changing.
Movie business, like you say, is changing.

Speaker 2 It's theatrical business change.

Speaker 2 it's all you know the the number you're looking at the thing that people one thing that people watch more than anything else which is fired and dunking don't youtube yeah i know you

Speaker 2 exactly but accountant two is in uh accountant two is out in theaters on friday and uh this friday yes see yeah go out and see it and he's great and he's really really do i take a date do i take my cousin who do i take your whole family everybody you know actually the truth is is a movie that anybody can see like real accountants can see real accountants better like that's the core right if accountants don't like it we're still fucked i mean you know what i'm saying you're balanced if you're gonna call the movie the waiter and waiters don't go you think anyone else is coming but uh it's yeah man it's it's a movie that i think honestly like works for it you know it's it's smart and it's not like oh well only young people like this or only old people like this it's got everything it's it's hard to make a movie that i think strikes this chord and kind of works for a broad audience and it is better seeing it in the theater so and i uh it's one that i'm willing to leverage my kind of personal word and credibility.

Speaker 2 I'm like, go see it, you won't regret it. It's really good.

Speaker 1 You heard that. Uh, Ben Affleck, thanks, man.
Thanks for coming in and just sharing and thinking with me and just having a great time.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure if you have me, man. This is cool.

Speaker 1 We're excited. I promise that I'll go see it.
And thank you.

Speaker 2 And I think a lot of people will. I hope so.
Listen, a lot of people listen to your show. So I appreciate it very, very much.

Speaker 1 Tell your son to say hello.

Speaker 2 I will, dude.

Speaker 2 That's right there. That's the whole reason for coming right there.

Speaker 2 That makes me cool right there. Now I'm just folding on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.
I must be

Speaker 2 cornerstone.

Speaker 2 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can feel it

Speaker 2 in my bones.

Speaker 2 But it's gonna take

Speaker 2 a little bit of time.