#576 - Kevin Von Erich

Mama, Papa, mi cuerpo crece a unrimo alarmante.

Y la robo que me comprenaura, me que dora muy pe queña muy pronto.

Pero suiterano tina que su fri por la moda con los precios vajos de la vuelta clas de Amazon.

Amazon, las tamenos sonriemas.

Today's guest is a WWE Hall of Famer.

He's a member of one of the greatest wrestling families of all time, the Von Ericss.

You may have seen their family story told recently in The Iron Claw.

He's an inspiration.

He's a motivation.

He's pretty funny.

And

I just feel honored

to be able to spend time with him today.

Today's guest is Kevin von Erich.

I'm feeling good.

I feel like I could doze off.

Okay.

If that's a good thing.

Yeah, so you, yeah, because you were always the barefoot guy.

You were a barefoot guy, huh?

Yeah.

It sure was.

I always, you know, I've got these really big toes, you know, and once you stub your toe on the mat a few times, it gets bigger.

And so at first, I just took my boots off because it felt comfortable in the ring, you know, just to move around better.

I felt like I could fly.

But

with the boots, you know,

they fill with sweat, you know, your socks absorb the sweat and all.

They get heavy.

I had some knee surgeries too, you know, but

I'll tell you, I go barefoot all I can.

Yeah?

Yeah.

It's good for you.

It really is, you know.

Yeah.

Well, I'm sure.

I know you moved out to Kauai, was it, or Hawaii?

Yeah, Kauai.

It's the, it's.

It's the barefoot capital of America.

I'll bet it is.

I'll bet it is.

We all go barefoot out there.

I say I'm always kind of crazy about that, but I just

just hate for my toes to touch each other.

You know, I've always liked that.

I hated shoes when I was a little kid.

I guess I got old enough to say no, and I just didn't wear them anymore.

Did you ever wear those toe separator things?

You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah.

Those are great.

You know, I wear them in the river at home, you know, to walk in the river, but you can walk by a vine and they'll catch your toe, you know, and can trip you.

You know,

it's a little hazard for those things.

Did you feel like a caveman, kind of?

Yeah, yeah.

The good kind of caveman.

I felt like, I mean,

going to drag around pound by the hair, but.

Yeah, no domestic disputes or anything.

Yeah, you know, because like you feel the ground, you feel the earth.

It's just something about it.

I didn't know there was anything to it, but Ross tells me, my son Ross tells me that

there's

an energy in the earth that your feet can pick that up, you know, and

I think I've been digging that for a long time without even knowing

it was a thing, you know.

But I caveman it all the time out in Kauai.

That's That's the way to live.

Yeah, I bet it's well, it's called, yeah, right here.

It says it's grounding.

Grounding, also known as earthing, is a wellness practice that involves direct contact with the Earth's surface, like walking barefoot on grass or sand to potentially connect with the Earth's natural electric charge.

I think it makes sense because even if you look at a tree or a plant, you don't see them wearing a shoes or nothing.

Like that would be crazy.

If you saw a plant like wearing shoes, you'd be like, oh, that guy's that plant's out of his mind.

Like plants, you know what I'm saying?

They're connected to the Earth.

So I think that makes good sense.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Yeah.

Probably kept you pretty locked in.

Your family lives, you live on your family's ranch, right?

Or you live on a ranch here?

We bought a ranch.

We sold it.

I lived on my family ranch in Texas.

We sold it about 20 years ago and moved out to Kauai and built a big place, you know, but we

but I wanted to give my wife that kind of house, you know, so everything was in that was in

the house was something that I really liked about room service or some hotel overseas, you know, I had a bathtub.

You could do a cannonball in it, you you know, splash it all over the wall.

It had a drain.

It was just, every room had something like that.

But it was,

it's real expensive in Kauai, and I have a lot of kids, you know, and so they all go off to their house, and no one wants to live in the big house.

And

so we happened to trade that to a guy that just happened to have 27 acres, a waterfall on the land, a big, nice spring, and five houses, you know,

for my sons.

And so we traded that house for that 27 acres, and that's where we are.

No way, just an even trade.

Even trade, yeah.

Dang, you don't see a lot of that anymore.

No, no, I'm glad the guy, I couldn't believe he did it, really.

Did you have one of those open back verandas or something?

It's called maybe in Hawaii.

What's that back patio?

You know what I'm talking about?

Those porches.

It's just so perfect.

Yeah, they call it Lanai.

Oh, God.

Oh, man.

At my daughter's house,

when we stay with her, she's got a bed set up for me out there.

And so I sleep in the wind.

You know, it's great.

Yeah, dude.

You're like that Legend of Zelda character.

What's that little guy's name?

Yeah, you're like Link from Zelda.

That guy's always in the wind, man.

That guy's a real nature dog.

Zelda?

It's a character, like a game.

It's a character from a video game.

So the ranch you have now, all your family can all live there.

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah, that is, man.

I'm telling you, Theo, that's like,

that's so important to me.

You know, I had a lot of brothers, and, man, I loved them so much.

We were really close, super close.

For sure.

Well, I mean, I only knew so much, but you know, I just saw you guys in the ring and stuff like that.

And, you know, there's been a lot of documentaries and smaller documentaries.

There's been the Claw movie.

So there's been a lot of,

you know, references to you guys for sure.

Yeah.

Your father was from Texas and he was a wrestler.

So I'm assuming that's where you guys all kind of got into it.

Yeah, yeah.

Just even knew about it.

Yeah.

This is, you know,

it's kind of an ugly turn.

I don't want to bum you out, but my dad was living up in New York, and we were all living up there.

I was the baby, but my brother Jackie was like six years old.

And he touched a house trailer that had a short in it, and it killed him.

It electrocuted him, knocked him out, and he hit a puddle of frozen.

Water was frozen.

He drowned under the ice, you know, and broke my dad's heart.

My mother, you know, it just killed him.

You know, I can't imagine.

I have sons, you know.

I tell you, Theo, I lost my brothers, and that was hard, but I could not lose a son.

Wow.

I couldn't get up.

I couldn't stand on my hind legs, you know.

Did they have to go to therapy and stuff like that when that first happened to your old, because I guess that was your oldest brother.

Yeah.

Did they have therapy back then and stuff like that?

Or what did you do?

No, no, there was no.

My dad was like a rock.

You know, I couldn't believe he was.

He just...

He didn't want my mother to suffer, so we wouldn't suffer around her, but I'm sure my mother suffered so much.

And also, when she got married, her little brother, David,

died of

a brain hemorrhage thing, you know, what do you call it, a tumor, a brain tumor.

And so just like a year later, her son dies, too.

You know, it was just bang, bang.

You know,

I mean, and at those times, too, things,

I think there was more

probably tragedy at those times.

You know, things were, you know, you'd have a lot of, people had a lot of children and a lot of them were working farming and people would get injured a lot.

There was just, I think it was a different time probably when it came to safety and stuff.

You know, and they'd have loose wires.

I mean, just things were just less regulated.

That's right.

It was.

You know, the kind of stuff we did as kids.

Like, shoot, I can tell you a lot of times they're lucky to be alive.

Oh, God.

I've been lit up a couple of times.

Damn.

I was walking by a damn crab restaurant and stepped on an outlet.

You did?

Just took me down, brother.

Yeah.

You stepped on an outlet with me.

Something.

I don't know.

Next thing you know, I just thought I was, thought the earth was just sucking into it.

Just

how long were you out?

I don't know.

Probably 40 seconds, maybe.

Wow, man.

Not long enough to give up, I guess.

You didn't have like an experience beyond the door or anything.

I didn't get anything.

I'm like, God's not giving me any previews or nothing, you know?

That might be a bad sign, brother.

Yeah, that's true, actually.

If you start seeing the light, I'm like, nah, nah.

So, yeah, so your family had that.

So your parents had to deal with that so early, man.

Yeah, I guess people suffered in silence more back then, huh?

Yeah, people were tough, you know.

They were.

Well, I was just going to say, you know, you brought up the movie, and the movie was like,

I heard a lot of people talk about it.

It was like the iron claw?

Yeah, you know, that my dad was really hard on us.

When the fact was, you know, that we were hard on each other.

You know, we answered each other.

It was like a brother thing, really.

And the...

You know, to tell the truth, the suicides and all, that was not because Fritz made us wrestle or Fritz was a big monster or anything like that.

That was a shame.

My brothers were ashamed with it.

With Carrie, was

you know, when you're in the public eye, you really feel a lot of pressure.

You really do, you know, you don't want to let those kids down.

And when something happens, you know, you do feel like you really let them down.

And you,

you know, I don't know, Matt, everybody's not like this.

Sometimes you just can't forgive yourself.

And Carrie just couldn't let it go.

And yeah, Carrie is Carrie, is one of your brothers.

I know you had David, carrie

um jack

um chris and mike and mike gosh that's all the boy names they had at the time yeah

y'all couldn't have had another brother because what were you gonna do it'd have to be a girl yeah it would have had to have been a girl by default man oh we wanted a girl so bad did y'all did your parents my whole life i never knew anything about girls you know oh yeah i mean uh y'all had enough beautiful hair in that family at least you got an idea of how to do it go figure that one golly i know.

What's with that?

I never took care of myself.

I never expected to live past 50, you know.

Oh, I bet.

I was having fun my whole life, you know.

Oh, I bet.

But y'all had so much dang hair.

Y'all were very, very true.

Y'all would have been considered trans women, beautiful, tall, trans women these days.

Y'all would have bet because you guys were ahead of your time.

Even like all the rock bands back then had, remember, poison, all those bands, they had the big hair.

That's the truth.

Did you guys have hairdos?

Y'all had some hairdos.

Was that something like a pride?

Was that almost like a lion's mane type of thing amongst the guys in your household?

Or what was that like for you guys?

Because you guys had some great hair.

No, you know what?

It was just laziness to tell the truth.

I mean, you know,

I cut it where to keep it out of my eyes, you know, but then I cut my own hair, you know, because I don't feel like you're hair.

I can tell, dude, I cut my own shit.

Yeah, well,

I can't see the back, you know.

I don't have a mullet on purpose, you know.

But I can cut this up here, you know.

So your dad, I do want to know a little bit more about him.

So you said that the film kind of portrayed him as being more of a stickler.

But what was he like?

Was he a businessman?

Was he quiet?

I mean, I guess he wasn't quiet because I could see like his wrestling persona, but was his home persona?

Like, well, I guess what was he like as a father?

And what was he like as a businessman?

But let me tell you, my dad was like.

a mountain of a man.

He was, he was, he was, he was really a considerate, full of love guy, but i mean he was serious and when he would he wouldn't say anything and like you know before you go to sleep at night you think oh man i wish i'd have said that wish i'd have thought of that well he thought of it right then and he would say it right then and uh at night you mean no i mean like whenever

the subject came up yeah whenever he thought of it it was just right there i thought man perfect answer you know but i mean uh he was the president okay you know that movie the ironclaw where fritz says oh the nwa always wanted to screw me you know kind of like but the truth is, he was the NWA.

He was the president of it, you know.

And

he was

the other wrestlers, I mean, world champions.

I mean, when my dad came in the room, I mean, they were like rolling on their backs like dogs.

They respected him?

Well, I mean, they, yeah.

Or they feared him like because his business acumen or just I think it was his business acumen.

I really do.

And the way he shaded himself, he didn't ever pop off.

He didn't ever brag.

He always had the accurate thing to say, that not too much emotion at all, just business.

And people respected that.

I think in the wrestling business,

we have a lot of personalities, you know, a lot of big egos.

And sometimes these guys don't want to do something, you know.

And,

but my dad had the respect.

And

it made a great business.

It's just, I think you have to have that in you.

Myself, man, you can talk me out of anything, you know.

Oh, is that all the money you have?

Well, I'll take less.

You know,

I don't know why I'm like that.

Not like my dad at all.

He was, he was great.

He was a business guy.

He was.

And what was he like with your mom?

Like, do you have a nice memory of them being together?

Like some, like a moment that you remember that was, um, that meant something to you?

Yeah, I guess so.

Oh, one time I was in the den, and my mom and dad were.

kind of whispering and they disappeared and my brothers were really young and so they went into the little study there i guess to to talk.

And I thought, they've been in there a long time.

And so I took the little coat hanger and straightened it out, you know, and pushed it in the door and opened it up.

You know, they were at it.

And I was like, oh, man.

The way I said, so

as a little boy, I thought, why are they so mad?

You know, what are they so mad about?

You know, it sounds like

they were having.

fun.

It sounded like a two out of three falls, huh?

Well,

I just felt like I need to go in there, you know, and break this up, whatever it is, you know, and it was

that was kind of one of those moments, I guess.

Break this up.

You bring a whistle in there.

That's hilarious.

She needs there.

That's really something you remember, though.

Yeah, I remember that.

I'm trying to think of that beautiful moment.

That's what came up.

So everybody was wrestling, huh?

I guess so.

Wow.

Did you feel like you had to be a wrestler in your family?

Like, was it.

Well, you know, the truth of it is, my dad didn't want to wrestle, you know.

In fact, you know, he was so

his finger was stuck, you know, and his hands didn't move right.

Oh, yeah, he probably walked around like a damn crossing guard.

Oh, God, he was.

In his lower back and knees.

And so, you know, I actually said to my sons, you know,

you don't want to do this, I promise.

You know, here we are in Hawaii, and I can't even run on the beach.

And I was a high hurdler, you know.

I used to high jump over my head, you know and I love to move but a day comes you know where you traded that traded that away you know so I told my boys you don't want this you know you really don't and uh but you can't tell them that you know they uh they were just like I was I wanted to do what my dad did I thought he was great and so did my brothers you know we thought

everything he did was great we thought and that's why I wanted to do like that I'm sure my sons

are thinking the same stuff you know well I think there's nothing more.

There's something inside of a son.

You just want to make your dad proud.

You know, you want him to look at you and

yeah, just feel a sense of pride.

That goes deep.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that's probably the deepest thing that there is.

Me too.

I really, I don't think there's anything less.

I mean, you

ask anybody, do you feel like your dad's proud of you?

It's like that, you know, it really takes them to a place when they're thinking about that or answering that, you know?

Yeah.

Was people using steroids and stuff back then?

I used to use steroids in high school.

Was it a thing when you guys were growing up or no?

Yeah, it was.

It sure was.

You know, it was,

I didn't really ever want to really get into that, you know, and

because we had naturally good bodies, but my brother Kerry was a bodybuilder.

You know, he'd peel the skin off the chicken and eat the rice with no soy sauce on it.

Yeah.

I'd never do that, man.

I mean, I ate Twinkies, chocolate milk, five or six glasses a day, really.

i love chocolate milk sugar my favorite food is sugar oh i'll eat damn two grams of sugar dude me too man i mean if it tastes good then my body must want it yeah because when i was growing up yeah he's so fit huh yeah he was probably the most romantically fit of you guys huh he was man just him as a little kid he was the

Girls all loved him.

The teachers loved him.

Damn straight men loved him.

He was.

I mean, you got to look, if you can go further enough past women where you get straight straight men to love you, you could have straight, I mean, this is the, you know, in rural areas, you could have men that are, we're like, no gays, but they'll go and watch and just adorn this gentleman.

I mean, you know, those are the times kind of, but yeah, Barry, he was, he was super fit.

Did

we

see that picture?

I remember when he was a little boy, he was so cute, but we said, we, we went in the barn one day.

There's a big old waspness up there, a red wasp, you know, how they stuck the ceiling up there.

And so, you know, they're in the barn.

We're all alone.

And so,

so we, you know, those things that you should, the gift wraps, the long tubes, they come in the

Christmas present.

Yeah.

So we lit one up and said, Curry, hold it under those, those, those red ants, but remember to hold your breath because they can't sting you if you're holding your breath.

You know, and so, but so don't breathe.

And so we light it up.

We're watching him go in there, you know, and

drop all on him and he runs out crying.

We said, stupid, we told you not to let to breathe.

And he said, it's hard to hold your breath when you're crying.

That is a great, it is hard to hold your breath when you're crying.

Yeah, yeah, he is right.

My favorite, when we were kids, we used to pick on each other at dinner so bad.

And the best part was to get somebody to cry when they had a mouth full of food, right?

Because they couldn't swallow because they were crying so hard.

So the food just got, it'd be like,

it just got stuck in the mouth you know it was just that shit was so funny

having siblings was so much fun huh did you guys do like halloween and stuff together any meeting like did y'all do that yeah yeah you mean go out and throw eggs at people and stuff and yeah we did all that yeah

yeah

And what was like birthday parties and stuff like at your house?

Because with so many kids, would you guys combine some of them or you everybody got we had a lot of boys, you know, a lot of us in our house.

And I remember like ladies saying, oh, it smells like boy in here.

And, you know, because we smell, they smell like boys, I guess.

But

I do remember that it was really hard for mama to get babysitters because like we would

we were really hard on them, you know, just playing on it with them and stuff.

You know, we'd kind of make a joke out of it.

And they'd be crying and they're never going to watch these kids again.

I was climbing the walls and stuff like that.

Oh, you need Abdullah the Butcher to be your babysitter, I feel like.

Probably so.

You need somebody big.

At that time, in wrestling, were steroids like a popular thing?

Like, I remember when I was in high school, we would, people would use like TESS 200.

But even growing up, like in Texas, was it, did people even know that steroids were bad for you, or was it just like a medicine that was like kind of common in wrestling?

Do you feel like?

Well,

doctors would give it to you.

I mean,

I didn't, I had trouble gaining weight when I was like, well, my whole life, I've had trouble gaining weight.

And so I took Dianabal when I was in high school, but I took one a day for like

two weeks and then lay off for two weeks and then take it again for two weeks and lay off for two weeks.

And that's that was what kind of that was think of a little boy pill is what that was for little boys that weren't getting puberty.

And then back then, like you say, there weren't all these rules and all.

steroids weren't necessarily a dirty word, but

doctors did give them to people like after surgery and things like that to improve their appetite.

And it makes a difference.

But if you don't lift weights, if you don't really have a strict regimen, then it's just going to give you pimples on your back and make your hair fall out and your breath stink and all that stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you're not, yeah, if you're just shooting steroids and then just watching, you know,

I dream of Genie or shit like that.

Yeah.

Your life's going to fall off.

Yeah, look, those guys that

get the injections to make their muscles look big.

Can you believe it?

Have you seen some of these guys?

They don't even work out.

They go in, they get silicone injections for muscles.

I got to tell you, Theo,

muscles are nothing.

You want to know your in wrestling.

I would lift weights because I wanted to be a better wrestler.

I want my kick out.

I want to push my man off.

I want to be able to bench

a lot because that's important.

But I mean,

to look pretty in the mirror, I mean, that's just a few shades short of

fruity, if you ask me, you know.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, look at this.

That's the stuff.

That's what I'm talking about.

What in the hell is that?

No, I mean, the guy looks like he's stealing from Target.

Really?

What is that guy doing?

What is that guy doing?

Yeah, yeah,

that guy looks like

a little.

And I'm going to take that joke out.

That's offensive.

I just wanted to make you guys laugh.

Which,

yeah, we used to use them.

I'm trying to think.

And we used them.

Yeah, I just like, we got it and we were weightlifting pretty heavy.

And it was fun using them because it definitely made things easier.

You know, that was fun.

And

you felt way more

invigorated, you know, for sure.

What kind did you do?

We were doing like test 200 and then people would, some people would do Deanna Ball.

I never got that.

We just would go on spring break and get test 200.

Or some people worked on farms and we'd get test 200 from them, you know, testosterone or something.

Yeah, well, some of that stuff, I mean, I have to say,

some of that stuff that got to use, you could see veterinary use only on the box.

You know what I mean?

Equine, this, and all that.

Oh, some of you'd open up and it'd be like,

even when you took the top off, you're like, shit, that ain't for us.

That's what it was.

It really,

yeah, I was never

into that because you really can kill yourself with it.

You know, it's like it messes your whole body up, you know.

Was it popular in the sport when you got into it?

I'm just trying to wonder what the times were like and how men felt like they had to

feel man.

Well, and did, and you guys were, because your family was in, your family was in good shape overall, but some of the shapes in wrestling weren't, it wasn't as much about the shape.

You know, there was a lot of guys out there that were just

big, tough guys.

Well,

we wanted to put the best show on television we could do and if that meant take steroids too we didn't care i mean priority one was our body yeah i mean was our uh

was delivering that punishment you know we move quick and explode if you ever you've seen our wrestling it was oh man carry was so it's unbelievable watching him well we just that's the thing we wanted to and that was the attitude back then if if the guys we're wrestling are going to do steroids well then it's only fair that we do them too now we didn't didn't

don't get me wrong it's like i it's not like we were really into it carrie went down to the university houston and was throwing the discus for coach tales down there view of h and uh

the stuff he learned down there was all this like expert stuff about weightlifting and and uh weight events and all you know they would take a cigarette and puff a cigarette right before they throw

and yeah if something in the nicotine would kick the muscles in you know kick your body just a little it would give them just a little edge, just a little more.

Or they drink ice-cold water before you have a GoMax on your bench.

It helps just a little bit.

You hear that, Coach Hester?

Kurt Hester, he's a speed and strength coach of mine.

I think he coaches the University of Houston now.

But I'm going to make sure he hears that.

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So when you guys were, because didn't Kerry almost throw the disc?

Didn't he almost go to the Olympics?

Yeah.

But the Olympics got canceled that year because what year was it?

Didn't Johnson cancel the Olympics?

80.

It was the 80.

No, wait.

Yeah, 1980.

That's what it was.

The president canceled the Olympics, right?

We didn't go?

No, it was that thing.

I believe that was a, there was an airliner flying over Korea and a Russian shot it down.

It was over a sensitive area and they

and I believe it was Jimmy Carter.

Oh, jimmy carter yeah yeah and we didn't do the olympics that year yeah but he would have competed carry would have competed well

you know

uh i think he would have but i'm not really sure what because they would have had to have the uh i think he went to champagne for those uh uh national pre-games yeah nationals but uh i don't think he went to the other they even took it that far i'm not sure i'm not sure how it went up

which one of you guys was kind of the leader of you guys's brothers well and i know sometimes it goes by age right?

Because there's always a...

I was the big brother, you know, and no doubt about that.

But my brother Dave had a real responsibility streak.

He would just, my dad would come to him and say, okay, I want this fence to be, I want it to go down there 200 yards and I want a good post or I want it double fenced and I want

and I want everything just right.

And he'd tell Dave.

And so Dave would tell me and Carrie what to do.

He's the foreman.

Yeah, he's the foreman.

And so it kind of worked that way in wrestling, too.

And

he was good on the microphone, too.

Oh, yeah.

It's important.

You've got to be good on the mic.

Was there a time where all of you guys were wrestling at the same time?

Yeah, just briefly, it was.

Man, that was so much fun, too, because we never got to go to Japan together.

Dave and I went to Japan together.

Carrie and I went to Japan.

Never together, though.

But when we could all three to be together, just for the, when we first started out.

You know, for that first year, all three of us could go to towns.

We had so much fun, man.

We always would stop.

We'd scuba dive all the way there.

You know, if we, if there's clear water, if it's just a river or something, we'd dive in and swim.

It was just.

Oh, along the way?

Just, yeah.

We had fun all day.

And we would even go to the dressing room.

We'd get dressed out in the woods where the swimming hole was.

And we could get our rest and stuff on and go right to the show, get in the rain, come back out and do our stuff.

You know,

we had it down.

We had fun.

And you got a leech in your tights, brother.

You know?

Hey, don't call it that.

Did you all train together at home at a certain place?

Like, what was that kind of?

Yeah, we had a gym outside the house

on an adjacent property.

And

I'm probably the cause of all the pressure because I would put up Vince Lombardy posters all the time for myself.

You know, I wanted to be the best I could be.

And that was what it was like to live in my home.

back then.

It was like we lifted weights

three times a week, but but we ran, we swam.

Everything was about getting better because I wanted to play in the NFL.

And

Carrie,

well, Carrie just wanted to wrestle,

and Dave wanted to wrestle, but I was a football player.

And

so that's what it was all about.

It's just do your best.

Acquitters never quit.

Winners never quit.

Quinners never win.

You know, that kind of stuff.

I had posters everywhere on the gym and we'd spot each other and push each other and call each other sissies if we couldn't do it.

You know, and I mean, we would spit on each other.

You know, we were savages and we wanted to get as good as we could be.

And when we

wrestled, it was hard.

You know, we

were rough because we

anything worth doing is worth doing right.

You know, we wanted to be like successful as my dad was, but it was meant just go all out, you know, completely commit.

And that means every day on Wednesdays, we're running 500, a meter, five, one lap around the tracks, 400 meter.

We'd run five 400s on Wednesdays.

We'd time them.

And Carrie and I, we're both high jumpers.

Carrie high jumped too.

And we, we could bench, Carrie and I figured as long as we could bench twice our weight and high jump over our heads, then we would always be in shape.

And, well, yeah, for knee surgeries, and I can't do that again.

But that was the theory we wanted to go with.

And Dave was the same.

Dave didn't work out in the gym as hard as we did, you know, but Carrie and I did.

Everything we did was to exhaustion.

And I mean, where you're kind of nauseated, when you think you're about to throw up, now you've done enough.

Dang.

We really did, man.

It was all the way.

I quit way before that, I realized.

Yeah.

Well, everybody does, man.

If you want to look different, you have to do what everybody else doesn't do, you know, and I mean, fight through that.

And did, were all your brothers kind of subscribed to that same mentality or did some of them come along just because that with that mentality just because they were your brothers

no does that make any sense yeah yeah i guess yeah nobody was just along for the ride yeah i think they were all pretty much just wanted to be like

me dave and curry wanted to be like dad but you know things got kind of different when we were in when we were kids uh

when i was in uh junior in high school sophomore in high school my mom and dad were going to get a divorce you know and my dad was going to move out and uh

no it's my freshman year is is what it was and i i came into the kitchen one day my mom and dad are talking and uh

dad said uh kev uh i'm gonna move to dallas and just get an apartment and uh y'all are gonna stay here and it's gonna be just great y'all go to school and come see me on the weekends and i said are y'all talking about a divorce and he said yeah son we are he's trying to describe it to you without saying yeah i said well i want to go with you dad and uh dave heard me and carrie came in and said we do too, Dad.

We want to go with you.

And so my mom's going to be there alone, it looks like, you know, and I guess they, but I was the mediator with that, you know, and they kind of worked it out.

But

with the deaths, you know, then my mother was kind of damaged inside.

It made her like

she was suffering so much.

She, you know, with Dave, she was tough.

I mean, like her little own little brother and Jackie, but then with Dave, she toughed it out, you know.

But then baby Mike, he was the baby of of our family, you know.

Chris was even younger, but Mike was the,

we'd been traveling around and we weren't home that much.

So when Mike was the baby, you know.

Traveling with wrestling?

You guys had been traveling with wrestling?

Yeah.

See, Dave and the movie doesn't have the suit, but Dave and Carrie were both married, you know, and Carrie had, Dave had a daughter,

died a crib death, but Carrie had two daughters.

Holly and Lacey and beautiful, sweet daughter, they spend every Christmas with us.

And we told you I got the big house for

all to have our Christmases.

Because family is just, like we were saying, there's nothing more important than family to me, to any thinking man.

And then again, there's the

being wrestlers and our brothers.

I mean, my dad's a bad guy, you know, and they're booing him.

It kind of makes you feel like it's us against the world.

You know, these people are booing my dad.

If they hate him, then we hate them too, you know.

What was that about?

So they

because

at what point did they, did the, what, the audience turned on your father?

Or is this part of the...

No, he was like the perfect bad guy.

He was a Nazi.

And after my brother Jackie died and they're up in New York, he was like, his wrestling changed.

He was different.

He was a, he was wild inside.

And I think it was like he wanted to just

take it out on people and it showed in the ring.

Theo, when people would, when the wrestlers would come to the out of the dressing room, get in their cars, the fans would stand around and boo, you know, from a distance.

But when my dad came out to get in his car, silence.

They were like,

fear.

It was like fear.

He might run over here.

Oh, it was such an exciting time back then when wrestlers would come into the ring.

I mean, there was just...

God, I remember being a kid and we would lose our fucking minds and just beat the shit out of our sister.

The second the fucking wrestling program came on, we would beat the shit out of our sister

for no fucking reason.

She just couldn't get

used to the schedule and no primary to stay away at that time of day or something.

If it was more than an hour broadcast, she knew she was in for it.

I'll tell you that.

You hear a lot of stories about how wrestling was like, you know, we had to wrestle one night and then the next night you had to wrestle again.

And did you go on road trips like that where it was like a few days at a time?

Was it weeks and months?

I mean, what was it really like back then?

In 1984, I wrestled 386 times.

And that's, there are a lot, a lot of those were triple shots, double shots

on Sundays.

You know, we'd wrestle TV shows or we'd rifle, we'd do two or three times.

But

after the, started to be the deaths, you know, then I would have to.

My dad had it where Dave could sell out a building.

Carrie could sell out of building.

I could sell out.

But Mike was not quite there.

And so

when Dave died, either Carrie or me had to fill his slot,

work in another town.

And that was hard.

But then Carrie with the foot, now I've got two slots to fill.

And so I was wrestling three times a day, almost a couple of times a week, but I was wrestling every day.

Was it an option to

take those some of the slots off the schedule?

Or did you guys feel like as a family, we have to fill this?

Did you feel like your dad was like, we have to fill this?

Or it was just, that's what you did?

Well, I got to tell you, we, you know, after the deaths, we were, uh,

we were down, you know, and we sure didn't feel like getting back in that ring.

But, you know, you have to, because after death, there's all the publicity and dad's saying, you know,

it's been a week.

It's been two weeks or whatever.

But I mean, there were times when we said, Dad, I can't do it yet.

Can't do it.

You know, but he did want us to get in that ring.

But it was a family business.

I don't hold hold it against him.

I understand.

But

it was

brutal to make yourself do that.

I mean,

what's on your mind is love and brotherhood and seeing him again in heaven.

But you want to project, I'm going to kick that guy's ass.

You know, it's kind of your torn, you know.

A lot of life's like that, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

It's like having two feelings at the same time.

It's like,

especially with death, because it's like somebody's gone, but they're the one that's gone, but you're the one that hurts, and

and you don't even know what they're feeling like.

And you almost don't want to like mourn too much because then it's like, are you just using the mourning for yourself?

It's like all that kind of stuff has always hit me.

I know you wake up in the morning and there's nothing, you can't think about anything else.

Man,

I'm old enough.

I can tell you a little something.

I never wanted to endorse marijuana or put it over because, you know, I had a position.

You know,

when I would wake up in the morning, I could not think of anything else.

That's all I thought about.

And if I smoked a joint, I could daydream.

I could think of something else.

You know, and I, I had to, I was grateful for that stuff.

I mean, it helped me.

Well, I'm sure, especially out in Kauai, it was probably...

Oh, shoot, yeah.

It was helping everybody.

Well, so I had my knee replaced, you know, and it didn't go very well.

It's kind of I rehabbed it too quick.

See, in college, when you have a knee surgery, you you fight like hell to get it back, you know.

And uh,

well, I got out there and I got a knee s replacement, but I'm a senior citizen, and so instead of I shouldn't have rehabbed it like that, you know.

I like I

was doing flips off the cliff with the boys and it knocked something.

I smelled glue on my breath.

I thought, uh-oh, that can't be good.

Because they use glue in there.

Really?

Yeah.

And you think some of it came up your bloodstream, you could taste it a little bit?

I tasted it.

Yeah, I tasted it.

That's bad,

anyway.

So, um, damn, they're using damn glue.

Well,

yeah, they do, they use glue.

Well, shit, we could use glue.

I mean, I mean, they have power tools, really.

I mean, working on you, they got to drill the whole deal, you know, they hide it from you, yeah, yeah, yeah, with that anesthesia, dude.

They just bring in a couple of Cub Scouts in there, and they're doing damn woodwork on you in there.

Um, the plane with

with wrestling did you have to be as tough at the wrestling part as you did at the partying part like there seemed to be this thing when i when i look back on like wrestling and a lot of the stories um especially coming up out of like the 70s 80s 90s where not only did you have to prove yourself in the ring that you were the toughest guy that you were able to do the matches but then you had to prove yourself again like at the drinking table was that part of the culture as much as

oh man it was that was the easy part for us us because

none of us really liked to taste the booze.

I mean,

I'll have a drink or even two, but I'm done.

I can't drink six of anything, you know.

And

a lot of people can, but I think that was a big thing for us.

We never did get that big stomach, I guess, that a lot of my friends, you know, love that beer.

All my teammates, you know, my wrestling.

colleagues love beer but i i never did get into it and i'm glad i didn't because it it's taken its toll on a lot of good men Yeah.

But

I'll tell you this: after those knee surgeries, I had to take three oxycontinent a day.

Yeah.

Shoot, one in the morning, one at noon, and or one at one o'clock, and then one at sundown.

And because they have time, they had time release in them, you know, and it can work great.

It didn't make you goofy or anything, but I could ride a bike, you know, and stuff.

And I could, I could, it kind of hurt worse later, but with the pain pill, take another dang pill.

Oh, yeah, I feel like a damn care bear if I take one of them.

Shit.

Well, then COVID came and I went to get my medicine because we never left our ranch except for go to the doctor, you know.

I mean, we had everything there.

In Kauai?

Yeah, in Kauai, I grow four different types of avocado, and we trade them with our neighbors.

We have

turkey, we raise sheep, we have tilapia, a fish full of thousands of fish, and every kind of fruit you could think of, you know.

We had a reason to go.

The boys are spearing fish and throwing the net and catching crabs.

And so it was a great way to live.

You know, we just didn't really leave.

But

COVID came.

And so I go to get my medicine.

And it's like twice as much.

I was already paying $900 a month for it.

It's $1,800.

And I said, well, I'm quitting this stuff.

And so

I quit.

But man, I got these flu symptoms.

Like, you know, I felt like I was...

weird.

And,

but I fought through it, you know, but Ross got me the stuff called kratom.

It's a leaf on my tree.

And we could grow, we grow the tree out there.

You can crumble it up or it comes that you put it in a powder, put it in a pill.

And I was able to kick that oxycone in 10 days.

I wouldn't even want another one.

By using kratom, you were able to get that.

Kratom.

Kratom did that, yeah.

And then were you able to get off the kratom?

That was easy to quit kratom.

I never liked that stuff.

It smells like hay anyway, you know, but it was easy to get off of it.

But

so, you know,

I decided, I told you when he came on, I wanted my life to kind of be, help someone, all that suffering, you want to look at something good.

Yeah.

You know, and

if anyone is suffering from any kind of addiction, like the opioids and all, bear that in mind.

They're creating places all around.

I'm not saying I'm not getting any money for it.

I'm just saying it sure helped me.

And if you're an addict and it was bothering you, I mean,

I couldn't believe I was addicted to this stuff.

I mean, I wanted to quit and I got sick.

I thought, shit, never going to let something happen like this to me again.

How bad did the octave

feeling like you had to take oxycons get?

Well,

I never kind of let it get to that point.

You're supposed to take it at one o'clock.

You're supposed to take it in the morning at night before you go to bed.

And so that's what it always did.

And you don't walk around high.

You just don't hurt, you know, because it's got the pain relief, the time release in it, you know.

But that kratom was helpful, huh?

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

Sure was.

Yeah, I have a friend who got addicted to kratom.

So I think there's probably, there can be a slope there, but I certainly could see how it could be used to help people get off of OxyContin.

Yeah.

It's illegal in some countries.

Kratom is?

Kratom is.

It must be

addictive.

Was addiction ever part of any of your brother's issues or no?

Did addiction run in you guys' family?

It runs in my family.

Well, you know, I don't think it does.

My brother Kiri,

you know, was

he went to the Betty Ford clinic and all these places, but he was never addicted to anything.

He just liked all of it.

I mean, he'd do cocaine one day.

He'd do pain pills the next day.

He'd do acids.

I mean,

mushrooms.

It was something different all the time.

I was like, Carrie, what are, you know, and I'm not saying I'm so good.

No, but it sounds like it was a, it sounds like he was addicted.

He was addicted to the feeling.

Ah, to the feeling.

I see what you're saying.

Just getting out of his skin, you know.

Oh, yeah.

God, that's a steel cage match.

I don't want to to be in my own skin.

Yeah, I know, man.

But, you know, that's life.

You've got to fight through that crap, man.

You got to.

You just fight through it.

Well, yeah, because to me, it sounds like he might have had it.

He could have had addiction problems.

Like, if they had looked

at it by today's standards, you know, I think things were definitely looked at differently then.

Yeah, yeah.

Might as well, because if you can't stop, then what do you call it?

You know?

Yeah.

Because I know he wanted to stop because it was.

Because he had those beautiful daughters.

He loved them so much, you know.

Holly and what was the other one?

Holly and Lacey.

Lacey.

lacey lives out in la and holly is out there in east texas now

and uh hopefully they'll be with me soon because you know i've been going back to hawaii every few months every month you know and uh but i haven't been back in a couple of months now and man it is hurting me because benji my little treasure's out there jill's jill has four she has two a boy and three daughters and who's benji Benji is the six-year-old.

And we're like this.

We go everything together.

Oh, that's a grandchild?

Yeah, yeah oh got it no i've got a lot of grandchildren oh you do son marshall has given me two okay well he can get more out of them yeah yeah he i sure can fire him up huh and then kristen is giving me plenty and and but the that boy and i being five you know we

be four three that age you're just with me all the time oh it's fun and now uh Marshall has given me a grandson and he's just about to turn five.

And we're like that.

I mean, it's either monster trucks or we're turning over rocks.

We're just throwing rocks and catching snakes and bugs and lizards and all.

And it's just, it's just fun all the time, you know, but it's like.

Yeah, I could see that for sure.

You remind me also, I mean, if you were my grandfather or something, that would be awesome.

And you remind me of Tommy Lee, actually, about probably like, does anybody ever tell you that?

Who's Tommy Lee?

Tommy Lee from...

Motley Crew.

Oh, that band came to Sportatorium.

A bunch of nice guys.

I know those guys.

Of course you do, dude.

That's you, dude.

That's why you know him.

But Tommy's a great guy.

Tommy's great.

You guys just remind the way you guys talk and stuff.

Does that make any sense to you, Nick?

Yeah.

Tommy's the greatest dude, man.

He's nice.

Just the way you guys sound and stuff like that, he's a super guy.

Yeah, they're good, man.

Did you ever fight somebody high?

Could people fight high in the ring?

Did people ever fight high in the ring?

I don't think so.

I mean, not on purpose.

Right.

You know, but

I couldn't remember the.

Oh, golly.

Yeah.

Oh, we did before.

There was this stuff called GHB,

and it's this super drug, but they sold it in like athletic stores, you know, and sporting goods stores because it was like a fat burner.

And so we're going to this town and

Carrie's going there.

He told us, he told us not to take too much of it, but by the time we say, say, you'll probably go to sleep in the car, by the time we get there, you know, your body's going to be burning your fat off, you know.

So we took that crap and golly shoot.

I don't know how we got through that night.

It was terrible.

Are we just zombies?

Yeah.

We were.

We're just sitting there dozing off.

It's right in the match time and it would be just one of the brothers trying to wake you up.

You know, shut up, you know.

Oh, it was terrible, terrible.

That stuff was something.

Yeah, I could just imagine what what that's like at that time.

You're almost like anything to kind of get an edge.

Everybody's testing out the cool stuff.

I know where the new thing is.

I guess that's all.

That's always been a part of that bodybuilding world, too.

I think, you know, when you're big into bodybuilding, a lot of those things kind of come along.

Like, you know, there's different creatines, there's different uppers.

There's like these testosterone revigorators or whatever.

And it's just a picture of like a, it comes up.

Sometimes it comes in like a huge set of balls, the thing, the powder or whatever.

Like, what the hell is this?

But yeah, yeah, there's all types of that that bodybuilding's always been on the edge of the, of like

competitive using and finding

an advantage.

Yeah, you know,

that's so when two guys are going to look at looking at the mirror with each other and you're, yeah.

I got better things to do.

Yeah, yeah, at a certain point, I think so.

It's interesting that you refer to other wrestlers as like a team or you refer it as your team or something.

Is that how you guys thought of y'all's wrestling organization as a team?

Yeah, it was a family business and it was like a team.

It was like,

you know, we were never jealous of each other, you know, as

the real truth to it is, you know,

when my dad and I flipped, when Carrie and me flipped the coin for the world title, well, the truth to it was that

I had a family and I'm married and I have children, you know, and Carrie wanted to be the world champion.

But to be the world champion, it's a special kind of wrestler to do that and not a Carrie.

You need somebody that makes the other guy look good.

That's really what it's all about, you know, and

Dave could have done that.

And I think Kerry may, I couldn't have done it, though.

I've been a babyface my whole life.

You know, I

kiss the babies and I, you know, do all that stuff.

But the real difficult work in wrestling, the hard stuff is to be a heel.

That's That's the creative stuff, you know.

And for our listeners that don't know what a heel is.

Well, a heel's the heavy, the bad guy, you know, the Bruiser Brodies and the Kamalas and the King Kong Bundies, you know.

Why is that the tougher spot to be?

Well, because you're limited.

For a good guy, what you can do, you know, but a bad guy can do anything, and he'd better do it, too, because it's all about, you know, it's like you're slaying a dragon.

You know, there's

the knight in shining armor and there's the big ugly dragon you know when i first went out to uh atlanta on wtbs out there i was uh 19 years old and uh

you know handsome kid you know and the hero and here comes the big monster to wrestle me it's just terry gordy yeah big ambam was his name no yeah and i found out talking to him he was 16.

oh my he was a teenager all all that time.

What the hell?

Y'all are being damn sex trafficked, you know?

That's going to be easy.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

You're both scared of each other.

You're both having to finish schoolwork.

Well, that's it.

You know, you want each.

Bring that picture of him up.

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Kevin.

Bring that picture of him up.

Look at that fella, dude.

Yeah.

That's wild.

He was something else.

You would have loved him.

Yeah.

I'm telling you, Michael Hayes is a, he's a character, buddy buddy culprit but that guy was 100 gold inside oh he would fight to the death but he had a heart for little kids and for girls and he was just nice he was such a good guy man but he was a battleship too what um did he pass away yeah yeah what happened to him oh shoot he was uh

He

overdid it on the plane.

He OD'd on a plane and they had to restart him.

Shoot.

And then something, I believe that his

blood stayed away from his brain too long, and it starved his brain.

And he had some damage.

When he came out of that, then I talked to him, and he just, Kev,

I hurt myself, brother.

I said, no, Terry, you're fine.

He goes, no, I'm not fine, Kev.

So he could talk to me, but he was real slow.

He didn't have any

of this

hand-to-eye kind of coordination.

So it cost him something, huh?

Dang.

But then I'd always heard that he fell off the jetway, getting on a plane one time, too.

I think you did.

He fell off the jetway, drunk, landed on his head, and got back up and got on the plane and made the show.

Yeah.

But

so I thought that was why he was like that.

But he said, no, something else.

You know, yeah.

So many guys went through so much, man.

Terry Funk, he's still alive, I believe, isn't he?

Man, I hope so, but I hadn't heard the bad news if he had.

Oh, no, he says he passed away in August.

I love that guy.

And Dory, too.

So I hope that I.

Terry Funk was, man, he was incredible to watch, wasn't he?

He sure was.

He taught me so much, too.

My brother Dave and I, we're 19, 18 years old, and we're the bad guys.

And Amarillo wrestling Dory and Terry, who are the great good guys.

You know, they loved them.

And Dory Funk as well?

And Dory, their brothers.

And their dad was Dory Funk Sr.

Okay.

A super badass.

Well, these two were in the ring.

And Dave and I, we're just learning.

You know, we're just learning about this.

Dave, pretty good heel, but I didn't know what to do, really.

And so we're in the ring, and

Dory's telling us everything.

He goes, Spit on me, kid.

I said, sir?

He said, spit on me.

So,

I spit on him.

And so Dave unloads on Terry, too.

And

the crowd went wild.

They hated our guts.

So they beat us, you know, and I get on the mic and I say, you're in trouble.

Now I'm going to get my daddy.

And so then, oh, they fooded me good, you know.

And so I love being a heel, but I just wasn't good at like, you know, like Dave was, you know, Irving Carey.

So that was the real, so that, so that was something that was tough to be a heel.

Yeah, it's a lot harder.

You have to have some creativity about it, you know.

Yeah.

And then you've got to have a personality where, I mean, that, that, that,

that you're projecting.

It's got to come from in here, you know.

Right.

And you can't get upset if people don't like you because you're almost the guy that people don't like.

Well, Dave and I come back from the ring in Florida one time and this cow and Dave's a bad guy and so I'm a heal too.

And so this guy steps up.

You remember people would dip skull and they'd spit in those cups.

So we slosh that stuff on us, you know.

And I thought, well, you know, we've been make, we've been begging them to hate our guts.

Finally, we're there.

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So he stands and all.

But so I said, Dave, we worked our butts off to make him hate us.

He goes,

Dave was just, you know, you couldn't talk to him.

He was so mad.

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carrie um

carrier do you think he was the most athletic

yeah carrie was a really good athlete He was?

He was just everything he,

it just came easy to him.

In fact, when I watched him play his senior year in high school, it looked like a play football.

It looked like Terry Gordy playing against a bunch of Peewee guys.

You know, he was that big.

And I sound like I'm exaggerating, but he carried the ball five times and he scored five touchdowns.

And the coach took him off offense, said he wanted to save him for defense, but he was great on offense.

He was a good linebacker, too,

but he was really a good running back.

I've never seen anybody just run through people like that.

Dang.

But he didn't like football.

Texas, University of Texas offered him a scholarship.

He didn't want to go.

He didn't want to play football.

He wanted to do track.

No, he wanted to do track.

He wanted to do track.

And Dave, the same way basketball.

Dave loved basketball.

I love football, you know.

We go to North Texas and Dave has his scholarship.

We're both there, you know.

And

so I look up on that hill one day and it's a real hot day and I hear a pop and I hits the ground.

So I look up there and I can see through the dusk, Dave's big old frame getting up off of that ground.

He's playing wide receiver and we had some defensive backs were killers, you know.

And

so

Dave gets up and I see the coach is parked over there watching practice and he walks out to Dave and He tells Dave, we're practicing in that air-conditioned gym out there.

And when we get thirsty, we get a drink of water.

It's not like this out here.

And so Dave quit and went to play basketball at North Texas.

And I fleeed football.

But we all each are sports.

Dave was a basketball player.

I ran, I played football and Carrie was discus, you know.

And your other brothers, Mike and Chris, were you guys a little bit disconnected from them because of age?

Yeah, that was it.

Because by then, we were wrestling and we weren't home very much.

And Mike was the big brother to Chris.

Got it.

Yeah.

So that was almost like a second, it was almost like

a second installment of children in a way.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah, I saw that match with Carrie and Ric Flair.

There's one match I remember.

It was during the daytime, right?

And I think it was in 84, maybe.

Yeah.

Is this it?

Daytime.

It was 84.

This was after David had passed away.

Right.

Were you at this match?

Oh, yeah.

I wrestled on this card too.

Because he looks so much more athletic.

And no judgment to Ric Flair.

I I mean, their age difference is maybe huge here.

But did he ever have to slow down with other wrestlers to make it look more real?

Does that make any sense?

Well, I suppose, but yeah, you know, it's all about

it's he had such charisma, you know, that his charisma was really his thing.

I mean, he had a great body and a beautiful build.

And I'm going to tell you.

Tony Atlas and I were bench pressing, and I had a good bench press.

I could bench 445 pounds.

But my brother and Tony were benching 520, both of them.

And I mean, repping it, you know.

And I've never seen anybody as strong as Curry was.

I mean, Curry, for his size, had

the most power I've ever anybody be able to bring up.

And he was agile, too.

I mean, I'm supposed to high jumper, a really good high jumper.

What was it like when Flair came to town?

That must have been a ride, huh?

He's quite a character.

Yeah, he was.

He's something else.

He's something else, man.

You got a show with him, right?

And the best time.

Because he's just, he's got stories and he

likes to, you know, it's fun.

He's all fun all the time.

And it's no other side to it, really.

No.

There kind of isn't.

He is a

real gentleman.

He's got a great voice.

You know, when you hear his voice, you think, that should be a radio man.

Yeah.

You know, he really does sound good.

But when he comes to your town,

he's going to give an interview that's going to rile.

I don't care who you are.

He's going to to make you furious and you're going to come down and see him get his butt kicked.

And so

you've got to have that.

That's Rick.

Now,

Harley Race and

the other champions,

the

drawing a blank, but I mean

the Briscoes.

And they were great.

But these had something else they brought.

to the table.

Harley was, you know, he has

all of his different holes and moves.

But Rick, what an interview he gives.

And he's got the experience too.

He's something else.

And he's got a good head for when to do what he does.

But you see what I mean?

That was a guy like me

really wouldn't fit the bill like Rick would.

Rick is going to, and he's going to bump all night.

He doesn't ever get tired.

You know, he's the, he's going to have, he's going to drag it out to an hour or he's going to try to.

Yeah, just magnetic, man.

That was a magnetic time.

He is.

What was one of the most traumatic things that happened to one of your brothers in their life while they were alive?

Was there anything that kind of started to change their life a little bit that we didn't really see as much?

Well, probably so, yeah.

My little brother Mike, you know, with the toxic shock syndrome, he had a, we were wrestling in Tel Aviv and

we were going to do some shows in Lebanon too.

And so Mike saw wrestling the guy, but his shoulder had been

dislocated and he popped it back in in the dressing room, got back out there in the ring, and it popped out again and it had really popped out bad this time so uh

we flew him back to texas to

get surgery and with the incision it got uh toxic shock syndrome it's a tampon thing ladies get but they had such a huge incision where the arm was where the shoulder was that they had shoved

gauze in there.

Oh, and some of it got left in.

I think that might.

It didn't get left in, but it got septic or something, maybe.

But whatever it was, his fever went up to so high, 106, 100.

I even heard 107, but that

it didn't kill him, though.

In fact, the doctor came down.

I say, Tima,

you wouldn't believe it.

The hospital was filled with

fans.

You know, they wanted to offer their kidneys or their liver to Mike.

Such love, you know, but

the docs told us that he's just, his fever is too high.

He's not going to come back and

he's not going to make it through the night.

And so rather than go up there and say goodnight like he told them to, like he told us to, then we had, my parents were down in this waiting room at the hospital up here at Baylor.

And we had Gary Holder, we had a chaplain that would go with us to shows, you know, big shows.

And he gave a prayer where he talked about, he said, God,

you say anything we ask in Jesus' name, then you will do it.

So we're asking you to stand on your word.

And he slammed that Bible down on the desk.

Man, I wanted to hide my head.

I thought he went too far, you know.

But it was just a few seconds later, the door opened up and he said, the fever's broken.

There's hope.

And we ran up to see Mike.

Just like that.

It was,

and

David Manning was right there.

My dad was there.

My mom, Carrie saw it.

It was a miracle, man.

It was really a miracle and beautiful.

But

I don't want to get an argument with people in it, but I would love, like I told you, I'd like my life to have an experience that people could benefit from.

You know,

if you're somebody that's

like maybe I was at a time, like life is overwhelming.

And you know what?

It's like when you overcome something, you're so much a better man than you you were before.

It's like when you're pushed to your limit and you have to adjust or die, you get stronger.

You get stronger.

And I would just say to anybody that's out there lost, if you want to feel like you'll never be afraid of man or beast again, you will not be afraid of dying if you know where you're going to go when you die.

And I mean, I know where I'm going to go and

I have no fear.

I mean, it's a great life.

Did you,

did you have religion instilled in you when you were growing up?

Did you have like...

No, that's a thing.

We went to church on Easter, you know, I remember.

But

this is a pretty odd story.

But

I spent the night with

my dad's real estate partner, he's a doctor, and I spent the night with them one night, and the next day was Sunday, and they took me to church with them.

And so I went to church, and so

the only reason I went is because if you spent the night, you've got to sleep with the dog, and I love their dog, you know.

Oh, yeah, dude.

I've stayed over places just to be better to animals.

Well,

we go to church and

these men surround me and ask me if I want to accept Jesus.

And so I knew that song, Jesus Loves Me, you know, and I'd been to wrestling before and I'd seen people poke the finger and stuff.

And I knew that was bad, you know, and I thought, I don't want to be bad.

I want to be good, you know, so

I want to be on that side, you know, because I've kind of seen a little of both words, you know.

Yeah, you weren't a good heel.

Yeah.

No.

This was the, this was, this was choosing not to be a heel.

Yeah.

For eternity, I mean.

Well, you know,

now that I understand what was going on, because I was just a little boy, you know.

So I said the prayer, you know, and they asked me if I believe Jesus died.

You know, I did.

And I felt something move in my...

something weird in my chest.

And I thought somebody, there were men standing behind me.

I thought they did something to me.

But I actually felt something move inside me.

And I think it was that little bit of evidence gave me a lot of courage and i knew god was with me i knew he was

and that night i was uh got out of my bed and i went and i looked on my porch i was just looking at this outside the stars

and i'm a little boy i could have imagined it but i could have sworn i saw an angel fly across the field with a horn in his mouth like he was blowing a horn i didn't hear any sound it looked just like a christmas uh ornament to a christmas tree but but in my mind this this was my best day of my life and I belong to God now and I have never been afraid of anything since then.

Amen.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I think people get,

sometimes people get scared to share like their testimonies or moments that they've had where they've just felt like something stronger than them took care of them.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, I remember a feeling one time where I was just broken down, man.

I was really banged up about a relationship and just not sure what I wanted to do with my life.

I'd moved back in with my step parents.

And man, I remember one time I was just

on my knees bawling.

And I felt something come around my heart, man.

I can't even explain it.

Just like this, this warm thing.

Just, I mean, I'd never felt where my heart was.

I mean, I'd put my hand on it, hoping for the best when I was pledging the legal.

He's knocking on the door, you know.

But I mean, you're a little boy.

You're beautiful.

And you're all alone, suffering like that.

God, that was God, Theo.

Yeah.

He came to you.

You know,

we we got one lifetime to learn it, you know, that there is such a thing.

I mean, let me tell you, there is a devil.

And people want to say there's no such thing, but there is, boy.

I could tell you a really weird story, but it's 100% true.

Yeah.

I mean, your life's full of craziest stories ever.

Listen to this one.

Okay, so I'm going to wrestle

Big Daddy King Kong Bundy and

the Will Rogers Coliseum in Fort Worth.

So I'm on the way to the ring.

Carrie said, Kev, come here.

I said, what, Carrie?

He said, I was dad on the phone.

Mike's just been in a terrible car wreck.

He's dying now.

Dad said, don't try to get there fast because he'll be dead before we get there anyway.

And I said, what?

And so

I ran to the ring.

I said, ring the bell.

They rang the bell.

I grabbed Bundy's leg, schoolboy in one, two, three, ran to the back, carrying a hauled ass to the hospital, still in my rustling stuff.

And

So we get there and there's cops everywhere and they're standing by the doors and I run right into them.

I bust open and there's this black lady out there and she said, my baby, my baby.

And when I crash those doors open, there's a little black kid laying there dead in blood and stuff.

So I go out the other door, open the door.

And there's Mike.

Hey, Kev, he was fine, just fine.

And so I'm like, I'm numb, you know?

And so I knew my parents were on their way down here.

And so I go outside and I see them walking down the ramp and and I said, he's okay.

And my dad just about fell down.

My mom fell down.

Well, so I'm going to get my car to come home.

And Abilene is west, but Denton is north.

Well, for some reason, I went west and I went almost to Abilene, Eastland.

I was so out of it, just driving.

By the time I got home, I was

so sleepy.

The son had already come up, hadn't been waiting for me.

And so I was going to take my bulldog down to the lake and wash him.

I had castel soap, you know, okay okay for the environment and all.

So I'm washing my dog.

And, oh,

sorry, I'm sorry.

I made this concussions.

But before that, I said, God, thank you for giving me my brother back.

Let me fight the devil.

I said, Satan,

I'll fight you.

I'll fight you.

And said, let me fight him, God.

It was stupid, a stupid boy.

And so I go to the lake, I'm washing my dog, and Theo, I swear this happened.

So my dog, everything's real still.

And

I'm feeling weird a little bit.

And I look and I see there's a bush here and some more bushes here and a hill here.

And I see these little black things taking position against me and advancing on me.

I felt like I could smell blood.

I could smoke

death.

And I said, get in the car, Pam.

And I put my back to the car and I was like this.

And I would see them going from the trees.

They're getting these positions and I was I was ready and next thing I know I'm out.

I'm having a seizure in my car and

so Pam's screaming and crying and these fishermen have run up to help and I must have hit one or kicked one or something.

But a girl ran up and said, I know his parents.

I'll get them.

And an ambulance came and all that.

But I know it's because I'm a man and I've challenged the devil.

And we have Jesus in us that fights the devil.

We don't have anything to do with the devil.

And so that was my lesson that I learned.

But I know that happened.

And it's just in me like written on my heart.

Look, that's a testimony, man.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, I think sometimes we don't think that the devil is real.

And that is the devil's way to trick us.

I believe that.

You know, if you don't think that evil is real, then it's how quick, you don't know how close it is to you either.

You don't know how intertwined it could be in your own veins.

If you don't even believe it's real, real, that's a pretty masterful trick.

Yeah, and we think with a man's mind.

And the devil has an angel's mind.

You know, I mean, he's way smarter than we are.

Devil's a thug.

The devil is a thug.

That is the truth, man.

Thank you for sharing that.

I've had friends share some really

some strong testimonials, some moments where they just felt that.

I mean, there has been moments in my life where, yeah, I just felt.

You just get that feeling.

Sonas, you ever get overcome with that feeling?

You're just so thankful that God has been with you.

Yeah.

Man, because you thought you did it yourself and you realized you didn't, that God was there with you.

Man, when that, when I've had that feeling come over me, God,

I mean, it just, it'll,

you just, you almost feel like you thaw out some, you know, like you thaw out.

And then we get to a position where we, where something bad comes along, we go, oh, no, God, don't let this happen.

You know,

and and he saves us again.

And like, oh, I forgot the other times too, you know, and and you know, I'll forget.

I'll forget.

You're the little southern boy.

I I know what kind of you caught coverheads and water moxans and stuff like that, I'm sure.

Oh, I definitely.

I got electrocuted a bunch.

I was definitely beaten a lot.

Yeah, we got bit by things, attacked.

I got attacked by a bunch of stray animals.

I grew up in the stray animal belt.

Really?

So they had just what kind of stray animals?

Oh, anything, brother.

Snakes, raccoons, birds, dogs.

Man.

I don't even know.

Just, they had dogs wearing jewelry.

All kind of shit was out there looking for us.

Man, that's a, you got a good memory.

It was dangerous out there.

Well,

you know, I used to get I got chased by a goose when I was a little kid.

By a ghost?

A goose.

Oh, a goose.

Yeah.

I'd rather a damn ghost.

Gooses are dangerous, dude.

Well, they can bite, you know, but for little kids, it's scary.

They don't care and they're violent.

And dude, a goose will come at you to just be one of them.

Some animals, they'll have five or six of them.

Raccoons are like that, you know.

Ants are like that.

You know, they won't come at you just just one but a goose that thing will roll up on you solo that's pretty savage when you think of it and that

is that you that's a goose is thinking rambling dude that's crazy um

oh what were the your parents lives like what was like um are your parents either your parents still alive no okay are they buried in the same place

yeah they are yeah we uh we had my mother uh

you know we when we moved out i couldn't move to kauai without taking my mom with me.

Oh, she took your mom with you?

Yeah.

Oh, dude.

And she lived in the house with us, too.

Did she love it there?

You know, my dad used to wrestle in Japan a lot.

And so we would meet him in Hawaii.

And I didn't realize it, but Hawaii reminded her of her sons.

And she didn't want to go anywhere.

She wanted to stay in her room and she wanted to grow her flowers.

And that was it.

She just, she did love it.

She loves her flowers, you know, but it was like,

it reminded her too much of that.

And she passed away up in our guest room upstairs.

But all my granddaughters and my sons' wives were standing around her singing hymns while she passed away.

And Theo, before she died, she was a super good woman.

She was so sweet and thoughtful to everyone.

When she'd come to school, I'll be so proud of her, you know, because all the kids.

the kids will like her.

But when she was laying in that bed and she breathed her last breath, even as she,

like that, her hand went up like that.

And I could just picture touching Jesus' hands and going to heaven, you know.

She was probably ready to go see her sons, huh?

Oh, I know she was.

You know, my dad, I hate to tell you all this personal stuff, buddy.

Well, I could match you if you need, but we've heard my stories a lot.

No, I just can't imagine.

I bet she was ready to go see her sons, you know.

She was.

I bet she'd been gone away from them long enough.

And, you know, my dad, too.

Because really, when you think about it, my dad lost more than my mom.

My dad lost his sons, but he didn't ever show it.

I mean, but he hurt.

He was hurting, but he was like,

it was just that he

at his latter, at the final days, he was so torn up inside.

I think when he saw me, it would remind him of all the sons he'd lost.

And he pulled that 44 out one day and

he pointed his head like, I'm just going to shoot myself.

No, don't do it.

Don't do it, Dad.

And he pointed the gun at me.

And I said, he said, you're afraid to die, aren't you?

He said, you'd have the guts.

You'd do it too if you had the guts.

And I said, Dad, it doesn't take guts to live.

I mean, it takes guts to kill yourself, Dad.

It takes guts to stay alive on this earth.

And he was hurting so much.

He would just go, oh, God.

He'd rub his face to go, oh, God.

And when I'd hear that,

I actually wanted him to die.

I wanted him to pass away.

He was just miserable.

And I know that when he died, he was right there with Dave Curry.

Mike's, it was beautiful.

But my dad had gotten to where he said, look, son.

If you kick an old dog enough times, he's going to bite you.

And that's how I am with God right now.

He said, he's kicked me too many times.

and so i i said dad it's gonna be you're gonna be so surprised but i couldn't convince him of it you know

but

yeah i can't imagine i i can't imagine what it's like to be kind of the soul the surviving son did you feel chosen

or did you feel deserted does that question make any sense sure it's funny you say that

Yeah, because I felt

chosen in the way that my dad gave me a a tape recorder back when I was in fifth grade.

It was a bell and howl, you know, and you could talk into it.

And I couldn't believe I could hear my voice.

Yeah.

You know, and so

I thought I love my dad so much.

I filled the tape up.

Okay, one day dad's going to die.

And I'm going to talk now.

And here I am alive while he's still alive.

And so I'm going to say something to make me feel better.

Man, I'm sorry, Kev.

Sorry, boy.

And I just filled the tape up with that.

Oh, as if you were impersonating your dad?

Yeah, yeah.

Like I can comfort myself later when I don't work.

No, dude, that's really interesting, though.

That's so interesting.

But I remember saying,

Dave and Carrie, we loved each other so much.

I thought, I can't bear to lose them.

I could not bear it.

And I thought, but they loved me that way.

And so I said this, even in a prayer, I said, God, if one of us has to stand back, if one of us has to be the only one, let it be me.

Wow.

Because I'm hard and I'm strong inside.

Lord, God made me that that way.

But I didn't know it would ever happen, but I did say it, you know.

You know, I used to have, I mean, this is like silly, but like, so when I was growing up, I didn't have any, like whenever my dad died, I didn't have anything of his, right?

I didn't have like a shirt or like a button or just anything to remember him by, you know.

And so I used to write postcards to my kids, right?

Whenever I was on the road, just.

traveling over the years doing comedy.

I would write postcards to my kids.

I don't have any kids yet, but I would send them postcards just so in the future they would be able to see that I was thinking of them.

Right.

Yeah.

Like I just wanted that, I wanted to prove, I was like, so smart, bro.

But I just think it's the same type of thing.

It's like you're just trying to like, I don't know.

You're always thinking of like,

how do I make sure that every,

that somebody knew I cared or that somebody knew somebody else.

I'm going to die someday.

Yeah.

I'm going to die someday.

It's just stuff like that is interesting.

I think a lot of people do little things like that.

But that's interesting because you could have felt like you were deserted.

But to end up feeling that you were chosen, that's pretty powerful.

Well, I don't think I'd say that we're chosen more like I'd say that

I would not want to put them through that.

Yeah.

Like you were the one that could handle it.

Then I think I would not want them to go through it.

Yeah.

I would rather me go with it than they did.

And I think

God might have given me some credit for that, you know, because it's all about

just, we're in a struggle.

you know, it's like we're not on this earth to laugh it up and have fun.

We have tests, real tests, and life is hard.

And that kind of stuff that kicks you in the nuts is what makes you stronger, makes you more strong.

And without that, you can't give advice to people about things you haven't been around, you know, but once you've had it and been and suffered yourself, now you can say, listen up.

Well, with that said, like, and I agree, you know, I was just thinking about that the other day.

It's like, I've always had this outlook, and they kind of don't teach you that when you're a kid as much, that, and they really shouldn't when you're a young child.

But I think they should teach you at some point that life is a test, that it is full of a lot of tests, and it's not all just going to be like this perfect thing, or everything might not work out the way you think it.

You know, you never really kind of get that education, maybe, or maybe some parents do give it to their kids.

Um, but with what you said a second ago, if you had to share something with somebody who had lost a sibling or who had dealt with, you know, some grief from loss, something that you've learned because, I mean,

you're like almost the

Neil Armstrong of loss.

I mean, you've, you've had, you've endured a lot in your life, you know, and watched, and watched other loved ones endure a lot, you know.

What have you kind of learned that you feel like you could share, if anything?

Well,

thank you for giving me that opportunity because that's what I want to do is to try to make it positive for somebody, buddy.

But,

you know, it's tough because I want to tell people: like, when somebody dies, it's going to get better, but it doesn't get better, man.

You don't even get used to it.

It just keeps tolerating it, and you just

somehow get a little better someday.

But there's no good word to say to them.

But when somebody's really busted up, you know,

and

when you

overcome that and are able to

maintain through that, well then

you've achieved through a struggle, you've achieved over

an obstruction, you've gone over a hurdle, you know, and it's like

now you can say you won.

Now you can say you won something because without a fight, there can't be a winner, there can't be a champion, there can't be a success unless there's that adversity, you know.

And so God wouldn't put you through that unless you're you're going to benefit.

You got a great mind.

You're an intelligent guy.

Oh, thanks, man.

Life is.

He's knocking on your door too, my friend.

You too.

I feel like you and me are probably pretty similar in some ways.

You feel that?

Sure do.

I do too.

Do you

was how

therapeutic was having your own family for you?

Everything, man.

That was what did it.

It was what saved me because uh

man when you can have anything you want you know when your brothers can have anything they want and and they come over and let's go do this let's go it's like what a life i mean it's uh it's a whole lot but

well i don't mean to bum me out man i don't want to start bumming out i don't feel like you're bumming me out at all really no i was just thinking like well i was going to ask you what's something that you admire about each one of your children and then i was going to ask you what's something that you,

maybe like something funny or something silly that you kind of admire or maybe miss, something goofy or something about each one of your brothers, maybe.

Just like a nice, like a band they like to listen to, just something like that.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we love good music.

I can tell you.

I've never told anybody this story.

But

we had our, we had like a tree house, but it was built on stilts, a little room on stilts, my diabetes.

And so

we had a cut.

My mother was a third oldest, but she had an older sister.

And so her older sister came over and she had two sons, and they could pick on us, you know.

And so we were hiding up there, and they were trying to get up.

We'd pull the rope up, wouldn't let them go.

And we had rocks.

We're throwing rocks at them.

And so it got really bloody.

We're chunking rocks and hitting each other.

And so

I think I let one go and it hit one of the guys right in the the head, you know, and my cousin, it would have kicked my ass if he could have caught me, you know.

But

so he runs in the house to tell on me, so we'll get in trouble, you know.

And so me, Dave, and Curry come down from the tree house, you know, we're watching out.

They're not going to ambush us and beat us up all the way to the house, you know.

But they run to the house to tell on us, you know, so we run up there.

And

so.

The guy's bleeding.

My cousin's bleeding.

My cousin Steve's bleeding all over the fleece.

And Dad said, what the hell happened?

happened and and uh i was about to fill something down curry said dad he got a little razzle bleed cut his head and and my dad started cracking up laughing you know and

and so dave and i

go with the story you know and i think he started laughing and just let it go but i think back on that carrie was such a cute little kid you know he was lying about it huh he did he was that way he was quick huh another time we were riding in the car and uh

uh my friend had a bb gun and so we were riding on the bb gun and uh shooting signs and warning lights and stuff you know so we drive our pickup and he shoots the windshield and of your own vehicle no no it was a friend of ours a friend of ours

an old man that had a ranch just south of us and so shot it blew it out yeah shot the window out and uh the cops were going to get us you know and we're running from them and all and uh got in such trouble.

And so we're answering for it all.

We got away.

And so they weren't sure that we were the ones, you know, and so the cops were all talking to us.

And my dad was there.

And I hear my dad say, my sons won't lie to me.

So

I'll ask them, my sons will not lie to me.

And so

he calls Carrie over there.

And

Carrie had already lied to him, you know.

And so I heard dad say that.

He said, come here, Kev.

And I went to, Carrie's over there.

We're going with the lie, you know, but I'm busted.

And so I'm going to say, I want to, I can't get the word to Carrie.

I get it to Dave.

Dave can't get it to Carrie.

And I said, Yes, sir, Dad, we did it.

We all did it.

And I said,

Carrie, come here, son.

Carrie, look me in the eye.

I want you to tell me the truth.

Did you do it?

He said, No, sir, Dad, I swear.

Oh, man.

Carrie could lie.

Somebody's got to lie, man.

Man, yeah.

And what about Chris?

What was something that was fun or just neat about him?

What was something he liked to do?

Well, he loved Indian stuff, you know, and he had a so he had he stacked the rocks and all the Indian stuff.

He knew all about Chief Bowles and the

Wonka Tonka.

I don't know.

I can't remember.

Wampum, something like that.

He knew a lot of Native American lore.

Yeah, he loved all that stuff.

And so where they lived, they had all arrowheads and spearheads.

He found that stuff all the time.

So that's what he was really doing.

But he was a great artist.

He could draw anything, you know.

So I thought that, but

he had asthma.

And so because he had to take medicine, it made his bones brittle.

And

he just wasn't going to get big and strong.

You know, it just didn't, when he worked out, it didn't really do anything.

We all took all the bigness, too.

If he was the last one, y'all didn't leave any bigness for me.

That's what I thought.

I thought maybe we took all the biggest.

because yeah, you took all the big man.

He wanted to be not, I could have cared less, but he wanted to be big so bad.

Um, and what about Mike?

What was something that Mike liked to do?

What kind of music did he listen to?

Oh, he liked

Metallica and uh

uh

ACDC.

And uh,

did y'all ever go to meet concerts together?

Oh, always a lot of concerts together.

Yeah, what was one y'all went to?

Uh, ZZ Top, I loved them.

Uh,

Yeah, and then isn't that ACDC?

We went to a Falkout concert, and I think the band that warmed up for him was

I Am Just a Cowboy, Rodrigo's Trail, with Starry Nights, Campfire Lights.

What was that song?

The Cowboy Song.

Thin Lizzie?

Thin Lizzie.

Then what is it?

Thin Lizzie.

Thin Lizzie's.

Yeah, that was a great concert.

Cowboy Song by Thin Lizzie.

I haven't heard that.

I got to listen to that.

Well, that was, oh, that's a great song.

And that was going to be Dave's song.

See, I picked the music, but with Carrie, he picked his song.

The walkout music?

I always did the music.

And I picked that song for Dave.

But he said, no, Cov, I'm a cowboy.

And he picked

When I Die, I May Not Go to Tech.

It was nothing.

You want music.

Latanya Tucker?

Yeah, but I mean, God.

But it was terrible for Go to the Ring, too.

I'm sure it was, dude.

You want to sound like an interesting sound, then a crescendo, and you kick the door off and the lights and all.

So you don't want some.

And he's blasting some damn Shania Twain or whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's different level, man.

Okay.

And so, and Jack had passed away before you.

What about Carrie?

What's something you remember about him that you like you like?

Shoot.

Carrie was just.

We all the closest probably?

Well, me, Dave, and Carrie were real close.

And then Mike was our baby.

you know so we were

we were really close and but you know chris was a little bit i told you about the divorce thing when I was a kid.

One thing my mother insisted on my dad was that my dad not

discipline Mike and Chris like he did me, Dave, and Carrie, because he used a leather strap on us, you know.

But I mean, we're boys, you know, and we got it.

It was kind of common back then.

It was, yeah, yeah.

And my principal beat me in the office one time, a couple times, I think.

It's back when your principal could spank you.

Yeah, I've been beaten there, too.

I mean, you know, we had it coming.

Yeah, we had it coming.

Did we?

I don't know.

Well, you know, if we got away with it, we just done it again.

Look, he got me.

I got over on him more times than he got over on me.

I'll tell you that, Mr.

Brady.

Yeah, I think same with mine.

I had a principal like that.

He'd come down

in the office and he'd open your classroom door and say, who parked on my grass?

You know,

if any car was touching grass, it was his grass and you had to move it.

You know, he was a really obnoxious guy.

Did you guys finish high school, you and your brothers?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, we did.

Of course, I hated school.

I hated it.

I don't know if you did or not.

Oh, if I could wrestle good, I wouldn't like damn spelling.

I wasn't wrestling then.

You know, I was a little kid.

I had to do my homework and all that stuff, but I had to listen to all that junk in class and about Susie has two dresses and all that crap.

I couldn't stand it.

I was bored to death.

And I just, and

I'm not a very good parent.

I told you, I just, when I see little boys, I say, I hated school.

I wouldn't, I don't blame you for not wanting to go.

You know, there's a lot better stuff to do.

You got a dog, you got a BB gun, and that's all you need, you know.

When you think back,

what about your own parenting?

So you have four children?

Yeah.

Okay.

And what are they like?

You have two boys and two girls?

Yeah.

Two boys and two girls.

But my oldest two are daughters, Kristen and Jill.

And

Kristen is

has always been my soft spot.

I love her so much and she's brilliant.

She does everything for us.

She's such a good foster mom.

In Hawaii, she'd take the kids for the police, what do you call the ID, the

when the parent, when

CPS, she would get those kids.

And then for foster parents, they loved her there.

And so many people that loved her in Hawaii, so many kids.

And then there's my daughter, Jill.

She was way more like me.

She's like,

she can swim

endlessly.

I've swam out to reefs before that were way too far for anybody without a boat.

She'll swim out there without flippers and go down and dive with lobsters with me and grab them with their hands too.

I mean, I'm using gloves, but she's perfect.

She's something else.

She can run run like a deer.

And she loves her.

And her sons are all athletic.

I could go overboard talking about her.

She's such an athlete.

And then there's Ross and Marsh.

And Ross and Marshall got into wrestling.

Yeah.

Were you scared when they got into wrestling, or did you have any thoughts about it?

Or that's just what they wanted to do?

Well,

not with Ross.

I knew Ross is...

He's been an ass kicker his whole life, and he

fights easily, you know and that's not usually there's not much for a man like that to do in today's world except wrestling and so where else is going to be good but marshall i did worry about him because marshall is a super athlete he went out to hawaii and he was the quarterback and he was throwing the bombs the newspapers would just

people would just want a picture of how far he could throw the football he was

He was just a great athlete, but I worried about him getting

that heat stroke out there, you know, because he had a heat issue one time.

So that's the only time I've ever been worried of them because they're both like bulls, you know, they're strong and healthy.

And

I wouldn't worry about it.

And either way,

with their wrestling now, too,

they know what they need to know.

I believe that the wrestling business is about to really explode because it was just like this when my brothers and I got started.

And when this COVID got in, they had to wrestle in empty buildings.

I don't think I could have ever done that.

But

it may where the people really have not seen them explode yet.

They worked for a little,

they went to Japan and wrestled, and they worked for a little operation at MLW,

and now they're with AEW.

Oh, really?

AEW has been popping off.

Oh, yeah.

I keep hearing about it all the time now.

Yeah,

they're really going to be something special, I believe.

And will they tag team?

They've done both.

They work tag teams right now, though.

I mean, it's a lot of, you know, there's a tag team is such an interesting, exciting match, you know, because the guys don't have time to get a hold.

But

they can do either one.

They can wrestle single.

They can work a tag.

But probably

they'll work a tag team.

As a matter of fact, I don't want to talk out of school, but we have a neighbor in Bernie, and it's Bill Goldberg, the guy that wrestled at WWE.

Yeah,

he's a Texas boy, I think, isn't he, or Oklahoma?

Bill Gorberg, yeah, I think it's Ramocha.

Where is he from?

Norman?

No.

Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Did you ever fight Rocky Johnson?

I was too young, but

my first black and white pictures,

I was trying to flex, you know, and I've never, I didn't know, you know, I didn't expect to have muscles, but that's Rocky.

And so Rocky's was really good at flexing.

And so Rocky taught me everything about flexing.

You know, he was standing right behind the column doing this this and doing all these things.

And whatever Rocky did, I did for the fixture.

So you learned a little from him then.

And Rocky's son is the rock, you know.

Oh, yeah, Dwayne Johnson.

And so we would like,

that's actually the picture.

I was like, that's hilarious, dude.

But Lil Rock was there.

Oh, was he?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a little boy.

I mean, he was the cutest little kid.

People say that Rocky

is a very nice guy.

He's still alive.

He is.

I don't know.

I don't know about that,

but

Rock was a great guy, too.

I mean,

he was a little younger than us, you know, so we'd wrestle him and

like

we'd frustrate him.

Just see if he'd have the courage to

pep up with it, and he would, too.

Dwayne John, the rock?

He would want to fight.

That pup

will bite you.

He was a beautiful little kid.

Y'all might have excited.

Y'all might have put that fire in him, man.

What about Bruiser Brody?

Remember him?

Yeah.

He was something else.

Smart guy.

On his workout routine, he would just put on leather gloves and lay into that heavy bag.

And it thickened his chest.

And I mean, he did bench presses too, but he had an awesome bench press.

But also his body was built so powerfully because he had it.

I think he worked out different.

He did a lot of strikes, you know, and that thickens joints and all.

It made him, makes you have kind of that raw strength you know and he'd had that

but if you want to talk about puerto rico well i could tell you too that what happened well he was killed in puerto rico you know oh he was killed in puerto rico yeah i didn't know that well gosh i never told this story but i i could tell you this one too that uh

he was brody got was real temperamental and he would get pissed off real easy well the puerto rico wrestling office owed him about 80 grand.

And so my dad was president of the alliance back then.

And so we worked out a payout schedule where they'd pay him a little each show.

But Brody got to that show and he wouldn't work for him because they owed him that money.

And so dad worked it out where he would come back.

And boy, when they came back, they sold out

San Juan.

And it was a great crowd.

Well, Brody wanted his money that night because he saw that they had it.

But, you know, there are other things that they've, you know, and

that's all that started.

That's all that started.

So he

wanted his money and

wanted to be.

And so he kicked the guy's ass, you know, and the guy's a little

invader, you know,

forgot his name.

But,

man, this is an ugly story, too.

But

the guy who And so they got in a fight, and the guy,

Brody beat him up, and he knifed Brody in the shower.

But

this is the kind of guy, I mean, the guy that did it, just about a week before that, his little daughter drowned in his swimming pool.

So he's on edge, you know, and

so I can't really, I know them both, you know, and they're both men that want to earn their living, you know, and

it's sad.

Oh, that's him, Jose Gonzalez?

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, life is, you know, like I said, we suffer, we find the beautiful moments in between those ugly ones, you know, and it's, it's good, it's got good and bad.

Yeah, I um, I'm trying to think if there was something else that you, you talked about using a medicinal marijuana.

How did you get into that?

And then how did it help you?

Do you feel like?

Well, if you want to talk about it, if you don't want to, that's fine.

Yeah, I did.

Well,

well, I had a lot of knee surgeries, too.

And And

you can take a pain pill, but if you do, then it's going to take an edge off of it.

And so you'll want to take more.

And if you do, you're going to get in a problem.

And so I didn't want pain pills.

So I wanted a natural pain relief.

And so I tried cannabis and I liked it.

And

it was just good all around for me.

It was good.

And so I actually grow it out in Kauai.

And

so that's how I, you know, I have have it.

You know, I'm so grateful for it, too.

I mean, I hope they don't make it illegal again because it was, it's like a wonder drug to me.

It really was.

Did you ever get involved in any other type of plant medicine or anything like that out there?

I know there's like ayahuasca ceremonies and stuff like that.

We've done, I've done that before, and a lot of our listeners have,

I think, have considered it or tried it.

Yeah, there's stuff called,

oh, it's a,

what's the name of that?

Kif.

No.

Kava.

Kava.

Yeah, Kava root's good for you.

I say good for you.

It's, I read about the contraindications on that, and it's kind of, it can make your skin like

have,

what do you call those things?

Shingles?

Scales or whatever?

Scales like, yeah, hold on.

Make a damn dragon out of it.

I guess that's if you do too much of it or something.

I tried it.

It's not bad for you.

But have you ever done like ayahuasca or like a plant medicine ceremony?

Remember in the middle?

Yeah.

Ayahuasca.

Ayahuasca.

Oh.

It's like a medicine that you take and you kind of sit in a group of the shaman and it's usually like a two-day ceremony.

And you kind of go through these bouts of like,

it's kind of like an emotional journey that you go on.

It's really fascinating.

Like a sweat lunch kind of thing, maybe?

Wow.

Really, really fascinating if you ever get curious about it.

I got a friend in Israel that writes comedy shows, that writes soap operas, and he does that.

He goes to Africa and South America and finds Indigenous people and does stuff like that with them.

And he does it.

I mean, he's a wealthy guy.

He's Aaron Rodgers.

We know who it is.

What's your physical routine like today for yourself, Kevin?

Physical routine?

Yeah.

Do you have like a daily routine?

Well,

Solomon comes in my bedroom about 8.45 or 9 o'clock.

That's your grandson?

Uh-huh.

And we go either catch lizards or snakes or frogs.

We've caught four rattlesnakes on our ranch

last year.

And we caught king snakes and

turtles, sea turtles, soft shell turtles,

you name it.

That little boy and I have so much fun together.

And he's the

I love him to death.

does he remind you any one of your brothers in particular at all or no?

Yeah, he reminds me of Marshall and Ross.

It's like I'm able to be dad again.

You know, it's like,

well, I enjoyed being

their father so much.

I really love my sons and my daughters.

But having Solomon again is just like having Marshall again, you know, and he's got Ross in him too, though.

You know, it's beautiful.

For anybody that's wondering, Kevin von Erich, I consider myself the luckiest guy in the world.

I mean, I know for that movie coming out, you may not believe it, but I am happy all day, every day.

And I mean, I look forward to tomorrow.

And

I couldn't ask for a better way things turned out and to

bitch about my brothers dying too young.

The truth is, we had a great time.

We had a great time, a long time.

Hell yeah.

We're still talking about how good the time was.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

So I'm not, I can't call it a bad day.

Is there any message you think that your father or brothers like felt like they, you think that they would want to have given, but they didn't get a chance to?

Is there ever anything like that?

Yeah.

I want to tell you something.

Now, we watched my dad wrestle when we were little boys,

and we had an idea to make a wrestling show that would be different.

It would be two different, two hot cameras the whole time, so nothing's going to look bad on television.

I used just the best camera shot.

It would have done some

extra time to editing, but

we wanted wrestling to be instead of the 20 and 30 minute matches, one hour time limits, we thought 20 minutes was plenty of time for a match to just and pick up the pace, you know, and

just make it more intense.

And I think our shows were like that.

I'm proud of them.

I'm proud of all of our shows.

And my brothers and I, especially Dave and I.

And Dad had

a great idea one time, and it was going to be be to put our new style of wrestling on the show.

And it was great.

We had a great TV rating, and Vince offered us a big part of his, half of his company up there to come in with him.

And I sat there with my dad, and I said, nope, what's in it for us?

And you never disagree with a family in a business meeting.

But I was thinking, he's got everything we need, dad.

Everything we need.

But

dad wouldn't go.

Wouldn't go with him.

To partner with WWE, you mean?

Yeah.

Wow.

And they're going to let dad keep San Antonio and Dallas, too.

But who knows, huh?

Yeah.

Who knows what would have happened?

Yeah.

Because there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, you know.

But I mean, we would have been ready.

We'd have jumped all over that because we're little boys that had seen it for a whole life and we just knew how to make it better.

We'd watch the NFL, you know, and the slow motion, the collisions and all, and

concerts with the lasers and all the music, the way it fills you out of your chair, you know.

We had it.

We had how we wanted to do it.

So,

you know, that didn't come about, but we had a great time aiming at it.

Yeah, and who knows?

Maybe things would have been different, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, you guys, yeah.

I mean, I just, yeah.

I mean, on behalf of like, yeah, any kid that was like me, I mean, the second you guys, they put the name on the screen or it's just, man,

it was awesome, dude.

You felt like everything was possible.

You could fucking rip the drywall out of the living room.

You could fucking do whatever you want to do.

You knew mom was coming home in an hour and a half, but you had a 90 minutes till she got there where you were free as a bird, boy.

I'd break every damn chair we had and then spend the next two hours gluing them bitches back together for dinner, dude.

You would have loved to step into business.

I know you liked it.

You would have loved it.

well kevin man thanks so much dude got a show tonight yeah we got a show tonight i'd love to take you to dinner but you're busy yeah tonight i'll be busy but you know what i think i'm gonna be down to um austin in uh

in september oh you are Shoot, call me up, man.

That's what I'm saying.

I'll show you Texas.

When I am, I'll come out and see the ranch, man.

Do it.

That would be cool.

That would be, man.

What plants do you guys have out there?

What plants?

Yeah, do you plant any avocados or anything that here in Texas or no?

Oh, no, no.

It won't grow in the subtropics.

But I say that.

I went to Israel.

You know, it's on the 33rd degree from the equator.

I mean, that's way far north.

They have mangoes there, papayas.

I couldn't believe it.

Yeah, they got.

You can't grow that in Texas.

Yeah.

You can't grow that in Texas, huh?

But

you can grow a batch of Von Erics, dude, that are pretty damn impressive.

I'll say that.

They sure can.

Kevin, thanks so much for your time man just thanks for you and your family just uh just all the enjoyment and excitement and invigoration and possibility over the years is i think it's inspired a lot of people and was so much fun as a kid just

when that when you guys came on the screen just getting to be avon eric for a few minutes man it was fun man it was a lot of fun and i'll think about it

And, you know, when you get some stress built up, you know, you can just get in the ring and kick ass.

Well, that's a motto for life.

These days are gone.

But they're pretty close in our minds, you know.

Yep, right there.

You can still feel them right on the edge of your skin sometimes.

Dang right.

Dude, I'll flex.

I'll beat the shit out of somebody in the lobby here if we need to.

Well, let's find a quiet spot and I'll take you down somewhere and we can make a little news.

Kevin Muderic, thanks so much, man.

My pleasure, buddy.

Now, I'm just folding on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

I must be

cornerstone.

Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind.

I found I can feel it

in my bones.

But it's gonna take

a little bit of time.