#608 - Jim Norton

Today's guest is his first time on the podcast.

He's a legendary stand-up comedian and host.

He helped give me my start in

getting on the airwaves.

He has a new special on YouTube called Unconceivable and his own podcast called Jim Norton Can't Save You.

Today's guest is the one of one, Mr.

Jim Norton.

Well, I was just telling you, we can get started.

You want to?

Yeah, whatever you want.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was just telling you that I feel like.

Yeah, you can move it around if you move.

All right, just let me know if I'm off mic a little bit.

I'm obsessed with that too, with sound.

Like when I'm interviewing somebody, if they're like, they're off mic, I'm like, get the fuck on them.

How do you, you know?

Oh, I feel horrible.

The other day I did it and I did somebody's somebody's podcast and i chewed gum the whole time we've had that yeah it happens but the fact that i did like i do it for a living you know you're like how did i do that

it every day it still haunts me a little bit that you chew the gum yeah just feel because i'm like i you know we came they came and we all put our time in you know just to be there and do it and i freaking just like you know sometimes you show up and you just you do the most bush league thing i'd like to ask them did you notice it while it was happening and did you want to say something because we've had like, we had Marin on one time, and he was eating like oatmeal or something the whole time, or chewing something.

And the fans were furious and were like, why didn't we just say something when he was eating?

Sometimes when you're hosting, you don't tell the person like, you're chewing gum, stop chewing gum.

Yeah, he should feel embarrassed.

You feel embarrassed.

Yeah.

But he still should have told you.

I mean, I've had instances where somebody's mouth will be very dry.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I'm talking about?

Yes.

That fucking sticky fruit roll-up sound.

Yeah.

And you know, all you can think of is the listeners being like, This dry motherfucker, this fucking pasty-mouthed idiot, yeah,

this fire survivor fucking showing up, and it's so true.

Like, it, but you can't sit over there and like baby bird somebody some water, but you want to say to them, like, you want some water, and then they don't, they're like, No, it's like when someone's breath stinks, you're like, You want a piece of gum and they're like, No, I'm good, you know, you're not good, yeah, but so you know, but trying to be courteous, yeah.

You want me to pressure wash your face for a second, like that's another thing you could offer them, but you see, like, how you just said that now.

I'm making sure I'm opening my water.

People have to be self-aware too.

Like anybody who's doing something, if your mouth is pasty and dry and sticky and sounds like shit, you should be aware of it.

You have ears.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then that you just realize, oh, that person is offline.

They are just not.

They don't know what's going in.

Or sometimes it'll be a woman's lipstick is a little thick and it kind of just.

A little crack.

Yes.

A little pop.

Yeah.

That stuff drives me crazy.

I pick up on it.

And I sniffle a lot.

I fucking,

like, I'm a noisy, uncomfortable to be around fucking person.

Like, I get it.

So I have no right to tell other people, but like I'm always clear,

clear my throat.

It's really fucking horrible.

Yeah.

Well, as we get older too, it's just like, you're just like kind of a, you're just hoping that every now and then you you're a little bit of the semblance of what you once were.

Yeah.

Oh, no, I've given up on that.

I've thrown in the towel.

I will never again be what I once was.

And I was only mediocre to begin with.

So I went from mediocre to kind of shitty.

But yeah, it's funny.

Like I'm so self-conscious about how I look.

And my wife is like, oh, you look fine.

And I got a text from Guttfeld the other night, a random text.

He's like, hey, man, I saw you on that Kill Tony thing.

That's a good look for you.

That's a good weight for you.

Like, and so people are telling me I look okay, but I'm like, I don't feel okay.

I feel fucking fat and just mushy and my neck is fat.

I just dropped 20 pounds.

Oh, you want to drop?

Well, it's so funny because I saw you last night.

I was like, man, Jimmy, you kind of look, I feel like you have looked better as you've gotten older, kind of, as you've grown more

an adult.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I look back on my old pictures.

I'm not impressed with them either.

So I can't go like, I want to get back to those days.

It's like rush back to what?

You know what I mean?

Do you ever feel like, because sometimes comedians are so uncomfortable.

And I was just, I was watching, you have a news special that's on YouTube, Unconceivable, right?

And it's so funny because I've thought of things being inconceivable before, but to go as far to be like unconceivable, like I should never even have been like contemplated.

Fuck, that's intense, dude.

Because I think at the depth of some comedians and artists, and not trying to sound like we're special, but we're fucked up.

There's something a little wrong with a lot of people in the world.

Yeah.

And we choose to try to put it out there.

Sometimes all artists do, even strippers, I think they do that in their way.

But like, like, there's something like, God, I should never even have been here.

Well, the reason I named it that, honestly, people thought I fucked up and spelled it wrong, but I didn't.

It's unconceivable on purpose.

It's an old way of saying it.

It's actually technically correct in the English language, but it was also like a nod to my wife, who

cannot conceive, obviously.

So it was a lot.

I haven't gotten that far through it.

Oh, okay, yeah.

It was part of.

I'm about 20 minutes in.

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

I talk about her.

It was part of it's about her being not able to conceive.

That was kind of why I called it unconceivable.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

I thought, I guess I just took that somewhere in it, just because you've always kind of operated on the fringes of like depravity or what's okay in the world sort of in your own space is that okay to say that you oh yeah it's 100 accurate but if it was about me and my existence i would have called it should have been a load and a sock that's what i would have named it

yeah it should have been a practice round

yeah i should have been like i should yeah like i should not have been in the gun no no no my father should have wiped me out of his belly button with a dunkin' donuts napkin

Shamoke and remember the Dunkin' Donuts?

Dude, you turned me on to that.

Yeah, the

iced coffee, cold coffee.

What are they called?

Cold coffee?

Yeah, her name is Edna Faust.

And I remember we loved them so, the joy we got from them.

You gave me that joy, dude.

And I've showed that over the years.

We've had people sitting here.

And I'm like, you got to see this.

Because the thing that's amazing about Edna is

her deductive reasoning was that she knew that like iced coffee, a cold coffee.

Like, she's just watching her go through the clues as to what to call it is why I love her so much.

Yeah, drop it real quick because I also want to tell you: Dutch came to one of my shows one time.

You met Dutch?

I met him.

Dutch and Smith, what's his last name?

Dutch.

What do you think?

Dutch Smith.

There you go.

A coffee shop in Shamokin is closed following an arson over the weekend.

It's definitely going to miss it.

No doubt about it.

A teenager is charged with starting

inside the restaurant on Saturday night.

Shamokin police officer Ray Psycho says no longer turkey, but the place has extensive damage.

Psycho says the fire was started inside the women's bathroom.

The toilet paper dispenser was lit on fire and within about a minute, the entire place was filled up with smoke.

The mother did explain that she's recently been put on new medication, but as far as for what reason, we're unsure right now.

The 13-year-old who admitted to setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center.

Many people who live in Shimokin are upset that Dunkin' Donuts is closed.

Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a Turkey Hill or something where I don't like their donuts.

I'd rather the donuts at Dunkin' Donuts.

And I'm kind of dealing with it, but I really miss Dunkin' Donuts.

I go there every day.

I get a chicken baker croissant, right?

Get some coffee, power raid.

If I'm dehydrated, I sit there all the time.

If I have any like legal work that I need to do, I go there.

I meet with my attorneys there.

I'm going to miss that place if it don't open up.

Yeah, a lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee.

What iced coffee, I guess it's called.

Oh, there she goes.

She figures it out.

She knows

Edna Faust's unsolved mystery.

She gets to it.

And Dutch Smith doing his legal work.

I mean, there really is.

And by the way, I hate to bum the podcast vibe out, but the first woman at Turkey Hill Donuts, she passed away.

I'm almost positive we did a deep dive on her.

And I do think that unfortunately she is no longer with us.

God, she seemed like the most healthy of the three of them, I thought.

She did too.

She was definitely the one I was.

If I had to be attracted to one of the three, it would have been Faust was a close second.

Yeah.

Dude, you could play Faust in like a biopic one day.

I would love to.

Brian Dennehy right now has her, but I think.

Oh, but Duck Smith came out to a show, dude.

He's doing great now.

So, but that was amazing, bro.

But yeah, you put me onto this and I've like shared it with so many people over the years.

So thank you, dude.

That was such a bizarre.

I remember it was on with myself and was on Opium Jim.

And I think that was the show.

And yeah, we would play all these weird clips.

And once in a while, you find one.

It's like, fuck, that's a gem.

Yeah.

That's a gem.

But I never had any follow-up about Edna Faust.

I'm dying to know how she is.

Because I think she's the best.

Yeah, let's put it.

We'll put it on an all-call.

Hopefully somebody can send something in, man, and we'll see if we can get a little follow-up.

The Faust over there

outside of Turkey Hill and Dunkin' Donuts and Shamokin.

They've rebuilt it, by the way.

Oh, they have?

I have.

We did follow up.

They have rebuilt the Dunkin' Donuts, and it's a big thing in Shimokin.

I was going to stop in there, go into a gig one time, but I'm like, no, I can't.

I just, I cared while I was on the air.

And as soon as I was in the car, I was like, fuck Shimokin.

He's done.

He's not stopping me.

It is funny how you make little plans of like, oh, I got to be, and then things come along.

You're like, nah, let's just keep hitting the stay on the road.

Stay on the road.

It was fun in theory.

It was fun to think about and to talk about.

But now that I'm actually going to be 25 minutes out of my way that way and then 25 minutes out of my way that I'm not doing this.

Yeah.

Fuck them.

Yeah, fuck them.

Yeah, fuck them, dude.

Yeah.

So Unconceivable was your wife because your wife can't conceive you're married now yeah yeah yes yeah and did you feel like you kind of gave like what was it like because you like that was your first marriage my yeah hopefully my first and uh hopefully my only yeah i only did it because we when she came into the the she was having a hard time so we did a 90-day fiancé uh

visa to get her in so we got married 90 days after she came in um otherwise i would have just dated But it's okay.

You fight different when you're married because you can't just go, fuck you, get out.

Like you're there.

So you got to resolve it faster.

You have to go back to your corner kind of.

Got to go back to your corner kind of.

I used to have three and four, like I would fight with girlfriends and then they would leave.

And then for three or four days, I would just have hookers come over.

Like it really was an ugly scene.

And this is a lot, lot easier, a lot cleaner.

Yeah, does this feel easier kind of like, does it feel like you kind of escape?

Because.

I mean, I got like a lot of, I think, commitment issues and stuff like that.

And I just feel like, man, at some point, I got to escape, like not use marriage as an escape, but I would love to not be kind of trapped just in this stupid circle that I get in sometimes.

Yeah, it's like, it's almost like it's, it's a lonely spiral too.

Like I forget, like whenever I get pissed at her, I'm like, yeah, but I was really depressed when I was single.

Like I wasn't happy when I was single.

I was miserable.

I hated being alive.

So if I fight with her and I'm like, yeah, this kind of sucks.

I'm like, yeah, but it's not, it's me.

I'm the problem.

Cause if I'm single, I'm even worse than I am right now.

So no, I don't want to, I like being married.

I just, sometimes when you think I'm married, you're like, oh, fucking life is over.

But I'd prefer this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And at least you have someone to be there with you in your life.

You're like, and you kind kind of have a donkey to pin the tail and you're like, fucking.

Yeah.

The wife.

Yeah.

Fuck her.

What is she, what?

Yeah.

If there's things are wrong, it's like, I have my fucking wife.

It's also a good excuse, though.

Like, ah, nah, my wife's not feeling well.

I got to go home and see my wife.

Like, there's little built-in things that are kind of advantages that I didn't see.

And I'm glad I did it because if I didn't do it, I would still be running in the same, that's why I've fattened up because I literally am not doing the same things I used to do on the road to get like those little mini highs you get.

You know, now I'm just in the hotel room alone.

And what do you do?

You order food at two o'clock in the morning instead of having somebody come over.

Yeah.

It's not as fun.

So you're, and your wife is, uh,

your wife is trans.

Yes.

Trans.

Transgender, yes.

Transgender.

Yes.

Okay.

And so what does transgender mean exactly?

Because people use the term all the time.

And sorry to go to like such rudimentary stuff, but

it means a man and a woman.

Yeah, like you're born in a male body.

And you know, they have never, they can't say exactly medically what makes a person transgender.

That's why there's so much arguing about it.

It's up to speculation.

Some people like, ah, you're just a crazy fucking guy in a dress.

And other people are like, no, you're, you're born this way, but they can't tell you medically exactly what it is in the brain.

But yeah, she definitely was born in a male body.

But if you talk to her for five minutes, you know, that's a woman's brain.

But I don't, I would lose the argument in court.

I don't have the argument in court.

You know, she definitely does not have a vagina.

Yeah.

You know, no, she's not at all.

Okay.

Hey, you look, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's not even a penis, it's a cock.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Wow.

Were you able to discern over time why you liked

something so unique, kind of?

Like, is that a way to ask?

Yeah, yeah, you ask whatever you want.

I mean, I don't know.

Like, it's one of those things where when it comes to sexuality and attraction, what makes a person like what they like?

I don't have the answer to that.

It's a pull.

It's like you don't choose what direction you're going to get pulled in sometimes.

Like for me, attraction has never been like, I'm going to go over there and like that.

It's going to be something hits me and I kind of like lock into it and I feel it and it pulls me that way.

You know what I mean?

That's art kind of.

In a way, yeah, kind of, yes, yes.

But the living art, one that you can really just, you know, slap against your face.

Yeah.

Art you can sit on.

Dang.

Do you ever go places?

Now, do you have, say if you are dating someone who's trans, do they ask questions like,

why do you prefer this?

Or is that like something you kind of have to make clear to them a certain way so that they feel okay?

Is that a I think it's like any other relationship?

It's like the thing, you mean like in bed sexually, like fucking or not fucking or that type of stuff?

No, I think even just like on a person-to-person basis, like, do I seem like a trophy to you, or do I seem like something like a novelty or like a nice piece of jewelry to like, you know, this artistic collection piece, or do I, do you really love me because of who I am?

Yes.

And I think that any, any person, any person has to, like, you know, as a guy with money, you have to wonder, hey, does this woman like me because of who I am or because I have money?

And with her, she could be like, is it because I'm transgender that he wants a transgender?

I think that with any person, you kind of like, you just, you know, what somebody's motives are after a while.

Yeah.

And if you're with someone as a trophy, like if I'm just like, hey, I mean, we've been on and off for like, I mean, back together since 2019, so six years.

And we were a year and a half before then.

So by this point, after seven or eight years, you know what a person.

Like, I was like, well, does she like me?

Does she like me?

Cause I have money.

But there's a lot of guys that have money and there's a lot of trans people.

So if that's all we wanted, we could easily go out and find somebody else who fit that criteria.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

She's beautiful.

Well, thank you.

Yeah.

And so you guys live together, huh?

We live together.

I put her up.

Immigration was very slow.

It was just one of those things where she had something she had to get fixed.

And we did it right, but it's just, just, you know, it's a slow process.

So while she was waiting, I moved her to Montreal and I would drive up and see her.

And I wound up spending the whole pandemic there.

I drove up.

They're going to close the Canadian border.

So I drove up one day after the radio show and I just stayed for 15 months.

I was out of the U.S.

for 15 months.

It was crazy.

Doing the radio show from there, just living, it was my first time living with anyone.

And it was in the pandemic in a one bedroom in Montreal.

Oh, my God.

And I'm like, if we can do this, I can make this work.

Like, if we can, because Canada was even panicky more than the U.S.

about

COVID, you know, eight o'clock curfew,

you know, they were really crazy up there about it.

So I'm like, if we can make it through this, we can be okay, you know, in New York and having our lives together.

So was that kind of a moment for you where like, okay, this is a big thing that I was able to do.

And that gave you the, cause like, sometimes I question like, how do I get to those next places?

I think when you're kind of like, you know, I'm not 40s, I'm single.

So it's like, you're like, will I ever get there?

You know, what's really going to to change?

Was that like a thing that really made it kind of different for you?

Yeah, that, that made it like, okay, this is a real thing.

Like, I had never done that with anybody in the States, but we were forced to.

Because if I came back to the States once, the border was closed, I would not have been allowed back into Canada.

So I had to choose between like being in New York or my life with her, like leaving her alone up there for, we didn't know for how long.

So it was kind of like a loaded gun to your head, like you're here or it's over.

And doing that, I was just so grateful to be with her and so like grateful to actually have a chance.

It was like a test run.

You got to do a test run and see like, do I want to be with this person?

And we got along like way better than I would have thought.

And so life here is fairly easy compared to that.

Wow.

But easy in a married way.

Like everything people told me about marriage is true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sucks.

I mean, you know, you got to answer to somebody.

Somebody's in your space.

Somebody doesn't like the shit I hang on the walls.

Like, I don't like answering to a person.

No, nobody does.

No.

Well, I think it's one of the reasons, especially like with comedy, you just work for yourself.

It's just you up there.

There's nobody that's telling you the crowd tells you it's fine.

I'll accept it from a group.

I'm not taking it from one person.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, it's a total space of complete control.

Yeah.

And it's very, like, I like the fact, too, that like when you're with someone, we talk about our lives on stage.

So like, I've been with women who got so angry at me for the things I said.

uh about our personal life and she she doesn't care at all which i love she loves the stuff i talk about Like our personal life, even matter how embarrassing it is, or how personal it is or how intimate, she doesn't care.

She's like, Great, go ahead, do whatever you want to do.

She doesn't give a fuck.

Yeah, I guess if you're cuddling up at night, I mean, both people have wieners in the bed.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I have a wiener.

She's like, you know, yeah, you don't, you don't spend 100 grand on immigration lawyers for a dick smaller than yours.

Oh, damn, that's a good point.

Oh, yeah.

Tara Fett, Trump.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

She'll like that.

A lot of people get mad.

Why does he talk about her janitor?

Well, shut up.

Do you notice other men?

Like, if you're around other guys, do you think there's like a lot of curious guys who are into that universe that are afraid to talk about it?

Yeah, they ask questions.

I never mind, though.

Like, I'm not, again, and that's why I joke about her the way I do because she's unbendable with that.

She doesn't care.

And I don't, I couldn't have married a fragile personality.

No, not you.

No, you've always been very

your own way

and like

aggressively your own way, but also in a kind of, of, I'm okay with where I'm at.

Yes.

You've never been in this apologetic way about yourself.

No, and you can't, like, you know, I want, you want people to be respectful to your, your partner when you introduce them.

And everybody's been nice and you don't want people to be dicks, but I don't care what people think.

Like you, you can't live your life and care what other people think.

I have fun with her.

She's my favorite person.

Like she's the person I should have married.

Like,

and do I get guys that are kind of curious?

Yes.

And I get a tremendous amount of messages from people who are like hey man i'm really glad you talked about that because i and i don't talk about it in some serious like

it's like nobody wants to be scolded nobody wants to be lectured yeah just be with whoever you like like you know what i mean and if you're worried about what other people think and you live your life for other people you're a weak motherfucker and then just deal with that fact about yourself

yeah i've had moments in my life where i like didn't have certain girlfriends i think because i thought some of my friends wouldn't be impressed with them Maybe we've all been there.

Yeah.

You know, it just blows down when I look back at it at certain moments.

And not like in a self-pity type of way, like I'm like, but when I look back, I'm like, man, I wish I'd have, because in some ways I am my own person, but in ways like that, I think I, I don't know, I had some, I had some tough times with it kind of.

But growing up, I think it's kind of common too.

I mean, you know, I'm a guy in my 50s now saying this.

Like, you know what I mean?

Coming up, when you're a real young guy, it's a little bit different.

We're more worried about what other people are going to say about us and more like, what if the, like, you know, that whole, that whole.

tidal wave of disapproval from people.

What are they going to say?

And after a while, you're like, I've been through it so many times.

I just don't care.

Yes.

Like, you know, but I've had fighters even ask me, like,

hey, bro, does she like, like, but asking legitimate, not trying to, asking questions that they'd be afraid to ask publicly because they people would think it was rude, but they're things that they wanted to know.

Yeah.

And I never mind answering that stuff.

It's not some giant sacred subject.

You know, you just talk about it like you talk about anything else.

You know, it's so funny.

I always think, like, I know you love the UFC and you and Matt Sarah.

Matt Sarah, yeah.

I've had a show for about a decade now.

About eight or nine years.

Yeah, UFC Unfiltered.

Um,

I, I, Dana just called me one day.

He goes, Hey, we're doing a podcast.

Matt's going to do it.

Do you want to do it?

I'm like, Okay.

He goes, All right.

And that's how it was done.

So cool.

It was just a phone call.

Um, and I think it was 2016.

We started.

And did he fight?

He fought George St.

Pierre a couple times, didn't he?

He took the title from St.

Pierre.

He's the last guy to beat St.

Pierre.

And then George beat him in the rematch and took the title back.

But Matt, Matt is probably

the most exactly how you think he's going to be guy I've ever known.

He's 100% genuine.

Like, there's no bullshit with Matt Serra.

Like, if he likes you, he loves you.

And if he doesn't like you, he can't pretend.

He's one of those guys.

Like, he can't pretend he likes somebody he doesn't like.

I love him.

I have such a good time with him.

He's really funny.

That's awesome.

Very grounded guy.

And fighters respect him.

Like, when fighters call in, because he's a legend.

I mean, he did the impossible.

It's the biggest underdog story in UFC history.

So when they, when they come in, they all love talking to Matt.

Like, you know what I mean?

I'm just kind of there.

Yeah.

Like they're like, oh, yeah, you.

And then for Matt.

So it's kind of humiliating every week.

If you've ever worked with a legend, it's like really like, wow.

I mean, like, you see the respect he gets from fighters.

I'm happy to see it.

One thing that amazes me about UFC, like, I think there's a, there's a...

like a symbioticness between, I feel like fighters, comedians, strippers even, like of trying to show yourself to like trying to show something about you to be seen, right?

That's a little bit abnormal.

Do you, do you think that makes any sense a little bit?

Like, cause I also feel like I relate to some of those people like on some kind of a, a level of like, we're just trying to be seen somehow.

I just, I just, for me, it's that way anyway, you know?

Like sometimes it's like fighting like would do you think like a kid, a young kid really wants to be out there punching his brains out or he's just trying to get seen by like a somebody in his life or some, you know?

I don't know what motivates people to fight.

Like some people like come out of poverty and it's just they see they can do it and it's a way to make a living.

And other people,

maybe they just realize they're athletic and they fall into it and they start wrestling.

I don't, honestly, that's a good question.

I don't know.

I would equate, like what you said about strippers and comics, like there's something about showing people something that most people keep private

and wanting them to like it and putting it out there in a way where they can like it and they can relate to.

That I definitely definitely see a tie-in to like, how do I expose this thing in myself or this humiliating factor or this insecurity and get people to look at it and kind of laugh and then go, okay.

Like, you know, you want people to laugh.

Right.

I don't want people in the crowd going, good point, Jim.

You know, no one gives a shit about that.

It's fucking embarrassing.

You know, the applause break doesn't mean anything.

Like, you want people, they have to laugh.

It's first and foremost.

You almost got an applause break last night.

Did you feel that one moment?

Or it was like two claps away from an applause.

Oh, did.

I didn't even notice it.

Yeah.

I did not even notice it.

I just, I plow

straight through.

And I very rarely get applause breaks.

You know what I mean?

Maybe because I moved to it.

I never do either.

But then sometimes you see guys, yeah, I mean, like watching Louis yesterday too, but he's on so he goes into so much.

You're so bizarre.

By the end of some of his stories, you're so deep.

It's like, what a great brain.

Like watching him, we've been out on the road and we got a bunch more dates coming up and just watching his brain work.

Like each bit is crafted.

Like some of these things are such ludicrous thoughts.

And then they just wind up, the crowd agrees to the thought and they go into this strange area.

It's so much fun to watch, like how creative a stand-up can be.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's so inspiring.

Watching both of you guys, man, there's moments where I'm watching the people in the crowd.

And a lot of times it feels like it's a guy and they usually are holding their girl pretty close.

It's kind of like they convince the girl, oh, it's going to, we're going to have a great time.

You're going to love these guys.

And they, they're doing extra.

Like, I'm going to put my arm around my girl, make sure she knows we're here together tonight even though he can feel them like maybe really some disdain at some of the oh yeah some of the material i feel people pull back sometimes which is you know what i mean i i talk about certain things i i feel people but it's that's what it is it is what it is um you know i i don't one thing i avoid doing like i never preach politics on it's so boring to lecture the audience.

Oh, I agree.

Oh my God.

I don't need to convince them of anything.

Yeah.

Like I want them to have a good time and hopefully see it my point.

Even if they don't agree with it, I want them to know why I got there.

And that's it.

Like you can't try to change.

No one's going to walk out of my fucking show educated.

That's my job.

I blink a lot.

I dropped out of high school.

No one's coming to me to teach them a lesson.

Iced coffee, cold coffee.

Cold coffee.

Dude, you had the one.

I don't know if it was in Unconceivable or if it was on stage last night.

It was about, oh, the military and that some of them aren't mentally well.

That was last night.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're like, that's who we want over there.

You think I want the fucking...

I don't want mentally, what you would consider mentally healthy.

I don't want that.

Oh, yeah, the nervous college kid creeping around with his little gun.

Yeah, I want the fucking completely deranged person.

The crazier you think somebody is, the more likely I want them to be sent over with a fucking weapon.

Yeah, you do.

You face that.

But a lot of it's common sense pushback against where, like, I think progressives were very crazy.

And I also think some of it's bigotry.

Like, people look at it like it's just one thing.

It's like anything in life.

It's, there's there's look at this, then you look at that and then you look at that.

Everything is an individual thing to be looked at.

There's not one answer that covers all of it.

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, I'll have people ask me about how could I,

you know, how could I

probably lean more conservative in the last election,

but then also be a

Palestine advocate, you know?

And it's like.

I don't see how any of those things are connected.

Like, I would never attach myself to one specific, like, so I'm this way for everything.

That seems crazy to me.

It's because people are dumb and they masquerade as these real brave truth tellers.

But a lot of people are very frightened of pushback from the group that they belong to.

So they do everything in lockstep with the group they belong to.

That's true.

You can have mixed feelings about things.

Like you can be an advocate for Palestine and then you can also like AOC and you can vote for Trump.

Like you can have mixed feelings about things.

People just want to say you're here or you're there, but that's their own fear of being left out alone.

They're afraid of being isolated, so they need the group.

They're joiners, but they're masquerading as brave truth tellers.

It's annoying.

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Thank you.

So since you ended up marrying a trans woman cut that out sorry

that's what she said too probably

cut that off um

that's where i was trying to go it's almost there

yeah i messed it up yeah that's okay um if she wanted to she could if she i'd miss her yeah

yeah dude do you think we are getting more

like do you think we're getting more i don't want to say depraved, but it's more, in one view, it'd be depraved if you looked at like these evangelical type of views or like, you know, like

people that came over on the Mayflower, like sexually they'd see a tripod as more depraved.

Sure.

But do you feel like we're just evolving or just adjusting into different, more sexual norms?

Yeah, I think so.

And it's also like the depravity.

Like I don't believe people's.

Like I don't believe the people.

Some of them, sure, but the majority of the ones who are scolding and going, oh, it's terrible.

How could you do that?

And then you realize that in D.C., these prostitutes are going, do you know how many of these senators I fuck or how many of these congressmen I fuck?

Like, so I don't, I don't buy any of it.

Like, there are people who live that way.

But as far as, again, a moral lecture or a sexual acceptability lecture from some, I just, I don't believe any of them and I don't respect any of their opinions.

But yeah, I think we are more open than we used to be, sure.

Yeah.

I mean, what's considered the norm now is different.

I mean, back in the Mayflower days, if you were fucking gay, they'd probably hit you with a rod.

I don't know what they would do, but it wasn't good.

They weren't happy to see you.

But

I bet there was low-key a lot of support for gay men on those boats because you're on the ship for a long time.

In high stockings.

I mean, come on.

You're going to tell me Miles Standish didn't get his asshole played with?

I hope that was his name.

But yeah, you're telling me you're out there drinking.

How many women were on the Mayflower?

Let's take a Gant because that's that's going to help.

I'm going to guess very few or none.

Or none.

I think that's a great point.

How many women were on the Mayflower?

Probably none of them.

Probably all men.

The number of women, most sources agree that 18 adult women began the Mayflower journey.

Only four or five women

were still alive by the spring of 1621.

Oh my God.

I guess there was a long line outside each door.

Yeah.

Can you imagine that though?

Yeah.

Hiding pregnancy.

Three of the women, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susannah White, and Mary Allerton were pregnant during the voyage.

And the crazy part is there's no way to prove whose baby it was back then until it's born and you look at it and go, oh, yeah, it's your baby.

Because there was no DNA testing.

There was no, so 10 guys fuck you and one of them gets you pregnant.

Oh, oh, well.

God, can you imagine, though, guys would just be trying to get you drunk so that they could then go approach your wife, or they would just be trying to get somebody else, like some other guys, get them and another man so drunk that they could just pretend that they weren't gay for a little while.

For a little while.

Yeah.

Oh, and have sex with the woman.

Yeah.

Or no, or no, jerk off the man or have sex with the man, but just be like, oh, Susanna, just keep saying a woman's name during it or something.

Oh, and pretend like by that point, you hope that you wouldn't like it.

Because if you're fucking a guy, he's got to know that you're enjoying it.

And vice versa, you hope that you wouldn't have to be thinking about a woman.

just to convince yourself.

You might have to be like, what's going on here?

You know, like, there's some, I'm sure, like astute white males or whatever, who are like, you know, in some of these,

you know, who are probably getting money from APAC or whatever, who were definitely slight, you know, who were like banging a guy and be like, what's happening here?

This is, you know, like a tremors from an earth.

Yeah.

Man, the windows or something.

Yeah, what's going on there?

Yeah, yeah, no, I understand.

What's going on?

I'm going to come in this guy.

Oh, my God.

How did this happen?

I must have fallen.

Vito.

Yeah.

But yes, in a way, you're right.

Because I remember it's fun.

When I was a kid, when I first started jerking off, you know, I would always try to think of girls, but sometimes I would think of boys.

And if I thought of a boy, I was so filled with shame that when I came, I would throw a woman in there.

Like I would like press the button.

The last slide would be a girl's face.

Like, oh, I just straight, you know, it was just, it was such self-delusion.

Like, right.

But yeah, that, in that way, you're right.

It's all about shame and how to.

how to stave off the shame you feel about whatever it is.

Yeah.

And our society does adjust so much of that.

And, And but it is interesting.

Like,

you know, I go to recovery meetings.

I'm in SLA recovery and stuff like that.

And so, and it's interesting because a lot of it's intimacy disorders, porn addiction.

Like there's so many things.

Like,

um,

you know, a lot of my, I'd be like, come here or stay away.

Like that was a, like, I would want some, like a woman to be close to me, but then when they got close to me, I didn't want them to, you know, just like a lot of like,

just

just anarchy.

It's being addicted to the hunt as well.

It's being addicted to the

lead up to something happening.

And then when it's happening, you're right.

You're like, get away.

Okay, now because the lead up was the high, the lead up of the thing.

And then that you're here.

Okay, now it's time for the next drug run, so to speak.

Yeah, I definitely get that.

Yeah, maybe that's what it was sometimes.

For me, it was like I would literally look at hookers all night.

I would ride around for hours listening to Art Bell on

NPR.

No, he was on 770 or 660.

Is that right?

No, no, Art Bell was a guy.

He was like in Perump, Nevada, and he was like very big into like UFOs.

Oh, yeah, that's that guy.

He was the best.

Oh, and he passed away?

He did die, but I would ride around the meatpacking district and look at prostitutes for hours.

I would do the comedy cellar and then ride around.

But the ritual for me was looking and talking.

And most times I wouldn't pick up.

I would just ride around and look and be in that space.

So a lot of times it's the whole idea of doing something.

something even more than doing it.

Like sometimes you do it, but other times it's just the idea of it.

Oh, dude.

Yeah.

Would there be certain things like during the interview process, like with when you chat with them, we just kind of say, and you, every now and then you just hear a certain thing and you're like, oh, I'll spend more time with this person.

Oh, well, when I would talk to them, you know, if I was attracted to them, sure.

But if I thought they might be a cop, I was so ritualistic.

Like they would have to approach the left side of my window.

Like there was weird ritualistic

things that had to be clicked, like any addiction, right?

There's this weird, this box is checked, that box is checked, and then I can proceed.

But if it didn't happen, it would, one box wasn't checked, it would wreck the whole experience.

But yeah, that whole, that's addiction is so crazy.

Sex is hard.

Like porn, I still struggle with porn.

I have a hard time.

I go into it.

I come out of it.

It's hard.

I know.

I just hate the way that I feel after I notice.

Finally, I hate the way I feel the next day after watching.

I just feel a little bit like dissolved.

I feel like a, like a...

Like the day before, I was kind of a bit of a Rubik's Cube and all the color that were matching on the sides and everything.

And then the next day, I just feel kind of broken.

And it takes a day for me to get my energy back organized.

Kind of.

That's a good way to put it.

Dissolved.

That's a really good way to put it.

Like, you feel

kind of like it's a collapsed feeling.

And dissolved is the perfect way.

You don't feel strong and whole.

And it's not a moral thing.

It's just, it's all that weird chemicals from like your own drug administrator.

Yeah.

Like, when you know what I mean, I'm sitting there.

It's not attractive.

It's just me tweedling my nips.

Fucking chimp.

And oh, if you had to watch a video of yourself jerking off over all the years, you'd be like,

Somebody shut this guy down.

Somebody put this kid out of his misery.

Yeah, what is he doing?

This is long.

Yeah.

And I'm playing.

It'd be like the director's cut of apocalypse now.

We're like, I get why they took that stuff out.

We didn't need the fucking dinner with the French people.

It sucked.

Yeah, if you had to watch yourself jerk, especially if you could add up all the time.

Yeah.

The amount of hours or weeks or months, whatever.

You'd quit immediately, I bet.

You'd quit immediately.

And it is wasted time.

Oh, yeah.

It really is.

Oh, the waste.

And, but I would do the same thing.

Like, if I would look at, like, I would get high on cocaine, I would look at hookers online.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And I would, like, just be looking.

I would look at the photo and I would be like, ah,

you know, and then I would barter.

I was like, just poor and I would barter.

And then you're, and then, but then when someone would come over.

I would often take the money, put it out of the door, give it to them and have them go home.

I was too nervous to have somebody like

in my presence.

One time a lady came over and she had,

she said that she had to get a brain tumor taken out or something.

I was like, whoa.

You know, and I just sat with her for a little while and talked about, talked about some stuff.

And then just, she just went home.

Yeah.

Sometimes when you...

You also realize like they're real people and then you realize like, why am I doing this?

Like, I used to love talking to women after, like, I used to love the conversation afterwards.

Like after sex or whatever, we would just sit and chat or if I would drop them off, we would talk.

And I realized it was just, it's a lot of loneliness.

Like you're just lonely and you don't know how else to

meet somebody.

I didn't know how to go out and talk to people.

So that was a way of meeting people.

That shit I don't miss.

Like being married, the one thing

I like, like I can just call my wife and talk to her.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like we actually.

It's a nice, stable thing to have in your life.

Like a person who you really like and loving somebody, yeah, yeah.

But I mean, you have to like them too.

it's not enough to love somebody like you have to like talking to them yeah and you have to enjoy and we have our dumb dog and i'll just be on face time with her and the dog and i'm like this is the life i want uh the dog shits all over it makes me furious but it's still a nice life yeah you know what i mean compared to what was going on before which was very lonely and isolated yeah it does it's just interesting you get kind of like trapped in patterns over time.

And when you're a comedian, it feels like you don't ever have to grow.

I don't know if it's a comedian.

I don't know.

I've struggled at certain points in my life to grow up.

You know, I didn't realize for years that I hadn't been growing up really.

I was kind of trapped, I think, for in like a child's ways a lot of times, but they were working out okay because we're in comedy and it's like you don't have a ton of responsibility.

It's all on you.

You have to show up.

You know, it's like,

you know, it felt almost like a kid could do it.

But you also, there's something about that that is good too.

Like, cause our impression of somebody growing up and getting older was like, you know, you, you, you go up, you retire, you get the gold and then you go into a home and you're finished.

Like, there was a process and there was a definitive end at the end of the tunnel.

But when you always feel like, I don't have to grow up and follow that pattern, you always feel like, I don't know what's ahead of me.

Like, you don't see the end.

Wait, say that part again.

I want to hear it.

You don't feel like you can always see the end.

You don't know what's ahead because you're not following the pattern of people growing up.

So it makes everything more exciting, you think?

More exciting, yeah.

And you feel like there's an endless amount of time.

I don't know which direction this is going to go in.

That's the terrifying part of doing things the way like your parents do it is that you see A, B, C, D.

But if you're kind of stuck between A and B in some way, you have no idea where you're headed yet.

And it still feels like the end is not directly in front of me.

And that makes you also continue to feel young because it's that same feeling that you always had when you were young.

Yeah, it's kind of, it is.

It's a way.

And I think it's a healthy way to be.

I don't think it's crazy.

As long as you're paying your bills and you're decent to the person that you're with, like, you know, it's a fun life.

Like, we, we fought to not have a boss, to not have a retirement age.

Like that, this is the dream life.

This is what I wanted to do.

Sometimes I'll be in a hotel mad.

I'm like, shut up, you fucking asshole.

How many of your friends have to get up and go to a warehouse on Tuesday morning?

And you're mad, you have to drive to Asheville.

Shut up.

Yeah.

Like, you know, I mean, this is like what you wanted and you got it.

So even with great jobs, there's annoying parts of it.

Yeah, that's the truth.

And it's fun.

It's fun.

You're going to get to go to Asheville.

That place is amazing.

Dude, I remember the first time.

That's one of the truth.

The blessings I think of having worked in this job is like,

I got to go to La Crosse, Wisconsin, dude.

Blew my mind.

It's a town in Wisconsin, and there's like this beautiful, like, hill, like kind of small mountain right on the edge of it.

And it's just amazing, man.

It's like we were right there, like the weekend before Halloween.

So you had like all the kids being like brought home from their parents after school and their costumes and the leaves are all fall.

It just looked like you couldn't.

It was like the perfect place to grow up is what it looked like.

Do you want kids?

Yeah, I want to have kids.

You do.

Yeah, I just think I would like to do it.

I would like, I think it'll help me like just not think about me.

You know, you start to get exhausted of yourself.

Yes.

And they say that's the one, that's the thing.

Kids open up that thing.

And I know that by not having kids, and I've never wanted kids.

I don't feel like

never.

Never.

Does Nikki want them?

She would love to adopt.

She would love to adopt.

I could see you getting something cool.

I could see me dying and then her doing that, which is great.

I told her, like, when I drop dead, do what you want.

Sell my stupid kiss posters and get yourself a kid.

But I've never wanted it.

I don't feel like, I don't dislike kids, but I don't feel it.

But when I hear somebody who wants them like that,

it does supposedly open up a part of you.

And everyone I know who has kids says it.

Like, it's a good thing.

And you start thinking about something other than yourself and your purpose is other than yourself.

Yeah.

For me, I haven't had that.

So maybe that's why I'm the half miserable fucking idiot

in my 50s on Japanese kiss poster auction sites like a fucking idiot instead of worrying about my kids soccer game.

You know what I mean?

Maybe that's it.

Maybe you're right.

That's, that's probably, it opens up that part's healthier.

Going back to like, um, if you had kids, if you were able to, if you're, is there part of you like, cause you said that if I died, then my wife could go ahead and get, if she wants to get kids, then that's fine.

Is there a little part of you

that's like

that still feels like having a family in a weird way?

Like at least I was able to help and support somebody and create an environment for them to have a family, like in a weird way.

Does that make any sense?

No, but it's not, when you say it, it sounds really nice, but it's never occurred to me.

Like,

again, I feel like with my wife and a small dog, it's such a different life than I ever had.

Like, it's a hundred percent different that I feel like that's my family.

Okay, god there.

But you're right.

Like, I am facilitating for someone to have them if she wants them.

Cause I tell her, I'll be dead long before you.

Like, so do do what you want when I'm dead.

I don't care.

Sell my shit and, you know, find some young fucking Latin guy and, you know, have a great life.

And she would,

believe me, while they were still powdering my face in the casket, getting fucked.

Dude, they should have put a tattoo of you on the guy's back, though.

That would be kind of nuts.

Or on his stomach.

So she really has to look at it when they're intimate.

No, she'll do what she wants.

I just never wanted it, man.

I don't have anything against it.

I respect it.

All my friends who do it are happy they did it.

I know.

I watched Bobby Kelly go like from being a single guy and then long-term relationship son loves he loves his life like that.

Like it's just not for me.

Like I see it and I'm happy for my friends, but I don't envy it.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Like when I'm around children, I never go like that instinct in me is never, and it doesn't pull me in that direction.

Even around my nephews, who I love very much, I would love them and hang out with them, but it never made me want to go have a kid.

Got it.

But I don't know.

Maybe that's selfish, right?

Maybe I'm a selfish.

Maybe.

Maybe it's selfish though also to have them.

Like, I wouldn't have them just in order to get me out of my own

ego jail that happens sometimes.

I mean, I know it's like, yeah, I would like to be able to have like, I think part of me is like, I would like to be able to create a safe experience for a child in the world because I don't know if I felt like I had that a lot of times.

I felt like I want to try in my best to fill in some of those holes that I didn't have to,

because I think our lineage kind of deserves that somewhat.

And

I think

since I've really love that childhood stuff and a lot of like the emotional side of it, I think I could probably service that pretty well.

Right.

So I would like to like respectfully try my hand at that with a woman who is a very loving mom, who wants to be a mom and with a kid who is willing to, you know, be, you know, just be my son or daughter.

Well, you would actually like, you know, because you have this, like you said, we don't grow up, there's a lot of time to have fun with a kid, too.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, in our life, it does afford us a lot of things that most people can't do.

Like, you can book a gig on the road.

If you want to go to Hawaii, you book Hawaii and you could bring your family.

Like, most people can't do that.

Right.

They have to schedule it around.

Like, I'm not doing radio for the first time in 20 years.

And it's so weird not having a schedule.

It's so weird not going, okay, well, Labor Day, Memorial Day, like this is when we get off.

This is when we don't get off.

To just be able to go on the road and do what I want to do is a very foreign feeling.

I love it.

It's nice.

And having a kid, you could do that.

You could just book a place.

Not that, you know, having a kid and having a radio show are the same thing.

But you get, I don't know, you got to get up early.

Yeah, you're right.

It kind of sucks.

You kind of don't want to look at the people you're talking to.

Yeah, maybe exactly having a kid.

It's like any other partnership.

Yeah, the food sucks.

The food sucks.

Yeah, the hours are kind of annoying.

You got to wake up when you don't want to wake up.

You're fucking cranky through most of it.

Yeah.

Yeah, your partner's there.

Fuck them.

You know, it's like.

Yeah, because they made it in before I did.

You're like, oh, you're happy to be here, aren't you?

Yeah.

But I do, I do kind of miss it a little bit.

Like, I miss the structure of it, but I also like not having it.

Oh, it was so much fun when you guys had, I mean, I only got to go when it was open.

Actually, I came when it was Jim and Sam too.

Okay.

But I never got to go when Anthony was there.

Yeah.

But it was fun.

Like, I mean, that was like some of the first times I ever got to be in a place where like people got to hear my voice that were like paying attention.

Yeah.

Like we talked to Bobby Kennedy on that show, which was on you guys' show, which was crazy because he and I became friends years later, which was wild.

Was he in studio?

Like, I think he was in studio with us, wasn't he?

Like,

for some reason, did Robert Kennedy just call in?

He called in.

Oh, it was a phone call.

I thought I saw a picture of all of us together.

And I'd never heard of him.

And I thought he'd been like electrocuter or fucking, you know.

Or people were fucking him while he was talking or whatever.

Like, I didn't know what was going on.

Those are really bizarre reasons for the voice.

Yeah, wait, is that him right there?

Oh, never mind.

I thought I saw that.

That's myself.

I can't.

I don't know how my class is

and Florentine and Opie.

And

yeah, and that's Robert Kennedy.

I didn't remember that.

Look at how skinny I was.

No, I know back then

I look like a weird photoshopped version of what I am now.

You look almost feminine there a little bit.

You kind of like a white Charlemagne kind of.

That is funny.

And he would hate that.

He knows.

I think he's a handsome.

No, no, no.

But nobody wants to be Jim Norton to be like,

I kind of resemble Jim Norton.

But that, you're right.

It is like a little,

my wife hates me like that.

Like, she's like, you fucking look like a little twink.

You look sick.

I don't like it.

She's like, you're not a fucking small.

You're a medium.

She makes me, she never wants me to be like that again.

But that's how I want to be.

And it does look kind of sickly.

Like when I see that, like my neck, my head.

Like, and I was so depressed at that point in my life.

So I wasn't even happy.

You seemed like you were doing great.

And then Daryl Strawberry, that's that's the day i came in so coked up were you coked up that day oh bro that's that started my like that that that day

i made a story for ari shafir's show

and that story like

that story like is when people started paying attention to uh my comedy oh really yeah i ended up on in a taxicab driving a taxi cab high on cocaine the driver had picked me up

There was a girl in the cab.

We're dropping her off.

She kind of rejected me.

I didn't like make it like I was was just like, she was laying in my lap.

I was trying to like give her a kiss, you know, because you feel like she was flirting.

She laid in my lap.

Of course.

So I like, you know, whatever.

And I didn't get be aggressive, but she like, was like, what are you doing?

And so then I felt some rejection.

She, she got dropped off where she was going.

It was just me and the driver.

And I was like, let's go get some coke.

You know where we can get some cocaine.

And then it was like next two hours later, I'm driving.

He has a hooker.

He's bought hookers for us.

He's in the back of the taxi.

We're up in like Washington.

Washington Heights.

Washington Washington Heights.

Yep.

And I have to be at the radio station the next morning at like 6.30.

I get dropped off at my hotel at 5.50, right?

It's a couple blocks away.

I shower and I walk over there, dude.

And it was the scariest walk ever because every moment of the walk was so scary.

And I just was like rattled.

And I got inside and I sat on the show.

I couldn't even talk.

I don't remember.

Daryl Strawberry was the guest and I'd always thought he was like this drug addict.

And here he was, pure as the driven snow.

Sober, he's clean and sober.

I think he still is.

I hope he still is.

But yeah, he came.

Joe Torrey's told a story about him about the plane going in.

It was really bad, turbulence, and everyone was panicking.

But Daryl was reading his Bible in the back.

So, like, he turned around and has this sober life.

And it's weird being fucked up around somebody that sober.

Oh, it's uncomfortable.

And I'd always thought he was this way.

And I'd always thought I was kind of like toe in the line and do, you know, straight.

And then it was this moment where everything, and that's when I got into

recovery rooms after that.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, that was literally the two days after.

That show, like, you know, the Opian Anthony show was it was a different thing.

Like, it was, you know, and Opie and I did what we could.

It's hard to follow the Opian Anthony show.

Like, you know what I mean?

It's a hard act to follow,

especially when it was uprooted without any one of us wanting it to be uprooted.

But man, I look back at that show, and I'm really glad I was a part of that.

Like, there was some really funny shit on that show.

Great comics coming through, everyone being vicious to each other.

Like, you know what I mean?

It was a really,

there was a lot of fun times on that show.

God, that was so fun.

You got, it felt like the luckiest place in the world.

There was no better call you could get at the time in the country, I don't think, than to go on to that show.

And some people didn't even recognize it, and that's fine.

Fuck them.

But to go in there and sit in there with guys, DeStefano, Sherrod Small, Pete Davidson, Mark Norman would be in there, just like

everybody.

Vic Henley, like

Greg

Florence.

Oh, Jim Florentines.

Oh, Jim Florentines.

My bad, yeah.

Just all those guys, man.

That was magical.

It was fun.

And it was a good, you would see your friends.

I mean, the last time I saw Patrice, I remember he was on, uh, he was on, uh, was on ONA.

And he was coming in one day.

And they're like, hey, Patrice is coming in either Thursday or Friday.

And we were just having an after-show meeting.

They're like, do you have any preference?

And I remember going, hey, let's do Thursday because I'm traveling Friday.

I won't be here.

And I wanted to see him.

And he came in and he did the show.

That was the last time I saw him.

Like, so it was like you saw people that you would not have been likely to see

coming through, friends that were on the road.

You would always get to see them because I'd come in the studio.

That I miss a lot, being in the center of that.

Like, you know what I mean?

And, you know, everyone headlines, so you don't see your friends anymore.

You'd probably go years without seeing guys that you like.

Totally.

But, you know, there I would see guys come through.

And yeah, man, I really, I love those days a lot.

It was special.

Yeah, I felt like it was.

You got to go to,

you went to Ozzie's last show?

Yeah, me and Jim Florentine.

Florentine got me my first paid gig in comedy.

He's my oldest friend in comedy.

And we knew Sabbath was doing one more show.

So we went to London in Birmingham, booked a couple of gigs just to pay for the trip.

Yeah.

And we did get to go to the show.

I'm so happy we went.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we said hello to Ozzie briefly at the end.

Again, he was very frail at that point.

He was in a wheelchair, but we still got to say hello.

And I'm really happy we got to say hi at least.

And hey, I love the show.

It was great.

Yeah, it was an unbelievable trip.

We went to the Black Sabbath house.

We did a video where, you know, you ever see the original Black Sabbath album cover, there's a woman in front of

this ominous house.

And we went there and we actually went up and looked inside.

It was, it was a really, it was like, you know, again, with your, your dumb friend, it's like, we should have done this 40 years ago.

Yeah.

Like the fact that we did this in our late 50s, we should both be fucking pushed into a ditch, two idiots.

Oh, dude.

Yeah.

yeah

well there's also shit you get into on the road did you get to see jack or kelly or um yes i saw both of them backstage um and i'm awesome

she's a sweetheart and she she actually uh

uh you know she told me she was getting married and she was very sweet and jack is always great um and it's funny the day ozzie died i was supposed to be in la doing jack's podcast i was going out after sabbath to la for a day to do the podcast and uh the day before whatever they canceled.

They're like, yeah, Ozzy died.

So, you know, it sucks.

Nobody was expecting it this soon.

Did you, do you feel like as you get older and people like, like heroes start to kind of disappear?

What is that kind of like?

You, you do see, it's almost like I look at us like we're on a production line.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like going this way.

And the more of them that drop off the end, you're like, uh-oh, my turn is coming.

Like,

but I also am grateful.

Like, it makes you grateful.

Like, you get to know people.

You get to meet people you love.

Who's the biggest hero you've met since you've been doing stand-up that you actually got to talk to?

That's a good question.

Or even the first one.

Probably Chris Rock, I think.

Really?

Like, for comedic hero, for sure.

Like, getting to meet him was pretty, I thought was pretty special.

Chris Pratt, I really liked getting to meet just because I think there's something really special about him.

Like, I think he's a great entertainer, but I...

there's something I think really special about him.

Are you shocked when they're fans of yours too?

Like have you had anybody that you love who likes you?

He has a Momoa.

Like the other day, I was walking through somewhere and this big arm comes out and just pulls me in.

It was just like two different areas past and there was an open door in between.

And I was just like, oh my God.

And I thought, I said, it's the guy from Shark Tank, right?

I fucked up.

And he just started laughing.

He's like, and he said, whatever show it was or whatever.

But he was just really nice.

And he likes your show.

And he just said, hey, man, I just want to let you know that I'm a fan of yours.

And yeah,

things like that, especially like if it's sometimes like a male figure, I think it like,

like I didn't have a lot of that when I was a kid.

I didn't have like any male ever like being like, you know, I'm a fan of yours or like, I like what you, you know, I just didn't have any of that energy in my life.

And so like even little moments like that, like to me are big, you know?

Even Dustin Poirier, he and I becoming friends over the years.

Oh, I love him.

I've never, he's one of the few guys in the UFC I haven't met.

I love Dustin.

Yeah.

I mean, he kind of changed my life in some ways of like,

just of like,

you know, you know, like just checking in, what's up, you know, just little things like that, you know, it makes you, I don't know.

Like having like a tough figure that that's like,

you know, I'm looking out for you, just something little thing like that, even though it's not, even, it just kind of, it, it, it, it attaches itself to an old place in me that was missing part of a magnet.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

And when those click, it like makes you feel something.

There's a weird thing, too, when you have figures like that in your life who are checking in on you.

There's like a weird sense of like accountability in a way.

Like even though you're not, you're just friends, but you still don't want your friend to say hey how you doing you uh fucking move like you want to at least be doing something good and and your friends can keep you somewhat accountable like you know what i mean and not in the way that you know people use it now like you got to be accountable for

like that shitty fucking online gotcha nonsense these children are doing but i mean like like when when you're personally just feeling like i don't want to let this guy down have him think i'm an asshole right i'm gonna get out of bed today or i'm gonna go do this extra thing just little things like that that keep people inspired and then i think we all do that for each other in some ways, you know?

Like I'll get that feeling sometimes like, I'm just going to rattle this off to this person.

Even if they don't hit me back, that's fine.

That's right.

Just let them know, hey, man, I'm thinking about you.

Just let you know, you know, I think you're great or I care about you.

You're doing great today.

Just little things like that, you know?

And I think sometimes my brother's like, well, those are things you really wish that people would say to you.

And I'm like, that's fine.

But I think the feeling I get is that.

I want to share it with somebody else.

So it's still okay, right?

100%.

And you're right.

And the older you get and the more people that die, like the more people like that die of natural overdose, suicide, I mean, we've all, you know, sure, those things happen.

But when they start just dying of like heart issues or things that like are people things, you're like, oh, fuck.

So you start telling people you love them more and like, hey, man, I miss you.

Like, I'm not afraid to tell guys, hey, I miss you.

Because like, there's one day you're going to be like, I wish I could say that to this person.

So I say it.

Like, you know what I mean?

And I, like, when Patrice died, he's just an example.

There's nothing in our relationship that went unsaid.

Like, there's nothing I wish, oh man, I I wish he like we had a complete relationship, you know what I mean?

Like, with, and you make sure that with your close friends, you have complete relationships, so there's nothing that you go, like, oh my God, for the rest of my life, I'm going to wish that they knew that I felt this way.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, and that's really important to me now: is like these complete relationships.

Like, if Bobby, not to jinx Bobby, but if Bobby or Anthony or one of my clubs dropped it, I would, I would, they, they know how I feel.

Right.

We, we, we know it's not like it went unsaid.

do you ever think over time like did you think like you were missing relationships like that when you were younger like were you missing like some like do you think people could be like missing a connection with like a male figure and then that gets com that gets that creates gay curiosity in somebody over time does that make any sense to you sure i mean what what creates curiosity in in anybody i don't know like that could be one thing that causes it like because you're craving that connection and all of a sudden you're like Well, there's a sexual component to this too, where I want to connect.

And I think it's sexual.

I don't know exactly what, like I said, what makes me have a pull

towards something, but there are things like that that I think can influence it.

Like, if you don't have any male figures in your life and you get close to a male figure, you may love that person and then not know, like, wow, is this love?

Like, I want to lay down with this person or is this just a healthy, normal, yeah, I love you, man.

Like, why?

Do you have gay curiosity?

I think there will know the, well, well, there was time in my life where I like didn't, like, I was just definitely like a late bloomer with a lot of like, um,

like intimacy of any type.

Sure.

You know, like, I were, like, I was just talking about this the other day with a friend, but it was like, even now, if a woman, like, looks at me, it's like, or says something nice, I got to change the fucking subject.

I just, it's hard for me to be in that moment.

Yeah.

It's hard for me to be right here.

And, um, but yeah, growing up, I just felt like I didn't get a lot of like, uh, I didn't have like a strong brotherly or fatherly connection.

And so, like, when I started to get relationships like that with friends later on, I think there was a part of me for a little bit.

It was like, oh, is this like a gay?

Like, because I was so desperate for those relationships.

So part of me, it had a wager in my head, like, is this a gay thing or is this just a friend thing?

And then I had to learn how much can you just be a friend to somebody without kind of over, not seeming into a like a homosexual like space or sexual space, but just like into where it's awkward for them because you're trying to be too much of a friend because you just have never had that sort of friendship.

Yeah, I mean, but there is a it's it's a feeling that there's a definitive like a moat like

if I love one of my friends

I'm I'm like like Bobby or any of these guys I voss rotten voss who I love

Colin.

I love these guys.

I mean I really love them and I can hug them and tell them I love you.

But there's there's a moat between that and wanting to peck them on the neck.

Yeah, for sure.

There is a definitive line.

And that's what people a lot of times don't.

Like, like any guys who are freaked out by my lifestyle, like, that's fucking gross.

Like, most guys have to understand, like, the idea of me having sex with you is as disgusting to me as it is to you.

Like, it makes me nauseous to think about it.

Like, any, if any of my friends think I want to jerk off with them, they're very delusional.

I don't.

None of them.

I don't care if they're built like Rogan.

None of them would I jerk off with.

Yeah, glazing that ham, brother.

None of them.

So it's like

there is a line between love and really connecting with a friend and feeling intimate with a buddy,

which I'm glad as an adult male, I'm allowing myself to do.

Like I'm not afraid of that.

And feeling sexual.

They're completely different things for me.

But, you know, that's so that, yeah, there can be a different, you can love somebody without having any of that stuff.

Yeah, and I think you just hear so much like, you know, when you're young, it's like there's, there was always so many like, you can't say this around a dude or something.

And a lot of that's kind of changed over the years, especially me.

I'm a pretty emotional dude, and so I like thinking about emotions.

And I like, um,

you know, I like kind of examining that stuff.

But yeah, I think there was probably, there was probably some times where I was like, is this,

am I like, and also I was having so much trouble like communicating with women.

So it also to say, well, maybe I'm a gay man, you know, maybe I'm gay man.

And I'll, but then I never felt an attraction to men.

And so it was like,

but I think some of that's pretty normal.

I'm amazed at a lot of my friends as I get older that

date trans,

prefer to date trans women.

Yeah, you'll find a lot of people that

it's a lot more than I ever expected.

Yeah, and it's part of people think like, well, what it's this new thing, but a lot of it is people are just not hiding anymore.

Right.

Or they're just not as afraid of it.

Or they're more aware of it because there's more people who are trans now.

And there's more like,

you know, with surgeries and estrogen and like, oh, wow, that person looks great.

Like, there's so many things people do.

It's just, it's a part of the culture and it's not going to go away.

Like I know some people, I understand nobody wants an ideology beaten over their head.

I get it.

Nobody wants to be told how to feel.

I don't scold people if they don't agree with me.

I don't care.

Plenty of people I know who I respect and like would find my lifestyle awful.

It's always funny because I do a lot of Gutfeld episodes.

And when I go on.

He's going to come there one time.

He's really a nice guy.

He's a great guy.

He really is.

He's a genuine and he's really funny and he's fair.

And Jamie Lisso's on there sometimes, huh?

Jamie's great on that show.

I love Jamie.

Tyrus is really great at what he is.

He's just a very naturally funny, good talker.

Tyrus is the big guy, and he's mixed, right?

He's mixed.

He's mixed.

He lives in the town that I'm from in Louisiana.

Oh, he is from Louisiana.

That's right.

He goes home all the time.

That's cool.

I saw him at the gym one time.

He's inspired me in a way because he lost so much weight recently.

Like, it made me get back to the gym.

I'm like, and I know for him, it's been a struggle.

And I'm like, he's doing it.

He's putting up videos of himself boxing.

I'm like, just get in the fucking gym.

Dude, he looks like all of the Lion King in one person.

He does.

He's in a respectable way.

Very intimidating.

And Kat, I don't want to leave Kat Timfast.

She's fucking hilarious.

It's a great show.

So anyway, I do that and I go on the road.

A lot of those fans don't know me except from that show.

So it's so, nothing I like more than watching the joy just drain from their face

when they realize who they paid to see.

But I, you know, more people, I guess, now are more comfortable being themselves.

Because you also, it's, it's like, you know, I mean, I was when I was a kid, I wasn't, I'm older than you in the 70s.

I got called a faggot all the time.

I got beaten up and chased by older kids for doing little sexual things with boys.

The word gets out.

Like, he's a faggot.

Like, it was nasty.

So it's nice that people aren't being treated that way anymore.

I didn't know that you had to have that kind of stuff happen.

And well, I think kids got called that.

Like, I certainly got called shit just for being like being smart in a neighborhood where it was uncomfortable to know shit.

Yeah.

You know, like,

I wish it was for that reason, but no, that's not why they called me that.

I was nose deep on a belly button.

I earned it.

Hey, some people call it penis.

Some people call it long pussy, you know?

That's a new term for it.

A long pussy.

Like, let's just say she's got a long pussy, you know?

But dude, yeah, people are such perverts now.

Who even, but then also it is crazy because there has been this energy that we've all been following this like astute level of our government and the this, but then now you realize, oh, these half these guys are damn pedophiles running around, skeeting on fucking, you know, kids off the coast of fucking wherever.

It's like, what's going on?

I, that's why I don't believe any of it.

Like,

they're talking about with the marriage and the sanctity of marriage, and then you find out that person's divorced.

It's like, man, I don't, I don't want to hear you weigh in.

If you're divorced, shut the fuck up about who can get married because you didn't do it right.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't believe any of it.

It's just like, I don't believe progressives when they're talking about, you know, being so pious and the purity checks they put everyone through.

It's like, you're full of shit too.

All your friends are white.

Shut up.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean?

I don't believe that.

I don't like any of that shit.

When people are saying that have never lived in the South of how things should be in the South, fuck you.

Come down, live in our neighborhoods for a little bit.

See what the shit is like.

You know, it's the same sometimes with the border stuff.

I don't know what it's like to live on the border in Brownsville, Texas.

I don't know what people's lives are like right there.

I don't know the fears people have when they put their kids to sleep at night.

I don't know the fears people have who are trying to come over, who are trying to give their kids a place where they can go to sleep at night.

Like, I don't know what that's like.

So like I have thoughts about it sometimes, but to really be like so definitive and shit, it's crazy to me.

Well, you, yeah, and because you, you, dealing with the immigration with, with Nikki, which we, again, we did it legally and it's a long

immigration system should be sped up.

Like it should be a 24-hour system that's always got people working because it's like your life is ticking away and you're waiting and they're sending paperwork through the U.S.

mail.

It's like, Jesus Christ, like these are like, which is just a trap.

The mail, it's basically like handing a letter to a black guy and hoping he takes it where it's supposed to go.

Yeah, just here you go.

Please bring that to the to the government.

This is the request for evidence.

Here it is.

When there's so much more, it's a government.

Anything with the government is not going to be efficient.

So immigration, they really should streamline it more and make it and hire more people.

Like that, because I understand why people hop the fence, but I don't agree with it because we did it legally.

But I'm lucky I could afford a lawyer.

Like a lot of people can't afford attorneys.

So I kind of go back and forth with it.

Well, it's nuanced, you know?

And people get up so, so upset about the ICE thing, but here's what I think people don't understand.

We're headed to a surveillance state, I believe, in America.

Like they're doing this, like Palantir has this new deal.

They're the same ones that are like owning all these drones and operating a lot of these drones in Gaza and stuff.

They're a company, right, Palantir?

Yeah.

Allegedly.

That are sniping children.

I mean, we had a doctor and he said bullets would come straight down it like from a butt, like a succinct shot.

So that's the same company.

Like you won't be able to be in, like hypothetically or on paper illegal person in America in two years, I don't think, because

the radar will go off.

Like the facial recognition will go.

You can't do it.

So they're getting all the paperwork organized now.

They're just taking inventory right now.

And I know it's painful.

With the fate, you're right.

The facial recognition.

Like, I don't mind it at at the airport.

Like I know some people won't let them take the picture, but I show up at the airport sometimes and they just take a picture of my fucking, my, my stupid face and I just walk through.

I love it.

Anything that makes my life easier.

And I know that so many civil libertarians are telling me to go fuck myself.

You're right.

Fine.

I don't care.

I mean, I'm 57.

I just like fucking going on a plane fast.

Oh, I wish things were different a lot of times, but also here we are, right?

It's like, I can wish things were different.

I can romanticize that we're still before 9-11, but that's not where we are right now.

We're in this fucking place.

But I believe that's why all the stuff with ICE, so people sometimes are so like, they shouldn't be doing.

I know, I understand people have different feelings, but there's no other way to get to where we're headed by them getting everybody on the books.

And I would like to get people, like criminals, once you commit a crime.

Get out.

Yeah, or hang.

I'm fine with hangings.

I'm fine with executions.

For some people, yeah.

Not everybody.

No, no, no.

But those who really misbehave.

Yeah.

Although, it's funny, I've turned against the death penalty.

Like, I do, but not, they always say it's cruel and unusual punishment.

There's, there's, there's a, uh, there's a line in Unjustice Roll where he's talking about something.

He goes, in theory, it's great, but in practice, it sucks.

I think in theory, the death penalty is allowable.

Like, I don't think it's cruel and unusual.

I think people who hurt children and kill children, I'm all for their fucking heads being mushed between two giant pieces of metal.

I just don't trust the system enough, and I don't trust prosecutors enough to back off.

Like there's so many times that they care more about the record of the office than they do the actual truth.

Good point.

So that's the only reason that's turned against it.

It's nothing to do with it being, I think it's a perfectly allowable thing, but our system isn't perfect.

That's a good point.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like when a coach runs up the score at the end of the game, like, how do you know that that prosecutor's office isn't just trying to run up the score?

Because maybe they're trying to make their office look better with so many deals and they're going to sell to a bigger company.

You just never know.

That's a great point.

And they they don't want to pay lawsuits.

So there's, I just don't trust the integrity of the people who will look bad if it's overturned.

Yeah.

And you look back, there's enough prosecutorial misconduct where you're like, ah,

not technicality shit, not where a guy had bloody underpants in his fucking house, but the search warrant had the wrong date on it.

Like, I'm not talking about technical shit.

Yeah.

But there are people who legitimately didn't commit the crime.

And then you see like evidence that wasn't given to their attorneys.

Like, yeah, it happens a lot.

I just can't get around a lot of poor people, too.

Much more than rich people.

That's a good point, too.

Like, so if everyone got the same level of legal representation, it's not what happens, though.

Yeah, and I don't think it's racial.

I think it's money.

Like, if you have enough money for great lawyers, you have enough money for great lawyers.

Yeah.

But if you don't, you get some guy that's overworked who's doing it, you know, because he has to do it pro bono.

You're not going to get the level of experts and all these people that can refute evidence.

So whatever.

That's how I feel about it.

But I do think that emotionally I agree with it.

Like, you know what I mean?

I get like right.

What's also, it starts to, you start to think, is there bad DNA in the universe?

Sure, you're looking at it.

Yeah.

Dahmer's Petri dish over here.

He has five foot six of fucking bad DNA.

Did you guys ever get to,

did you guys ever get to interview O.J.

Simpton?

Did you guys ever interview a murderer?

Did we ever...

I don't know if you ever admitted.

I've interviewed Frank Lucas,

who was in, who was the

Moxley?

That wasn't that guy, was it?

No, it was an American gangster that Denzel played him.

But there's a moment where he went up and shot somebody.

So he might qualify.

I'm dying to interview Sammy the Bull.

I'm dying to talk to him because this podcast is fascinating.

Do you know who one of the best guys we ever talked to was?

It was this giant cop from Milwaukee.

His name was something Kennedy.

He was 6'7.

seven.

And he was the cop who debriefed Jeffrey Dahmer.

When they arrested Dahmer and they brought Dahmer to the station house, he's the cop, the detective that Dahmer first talked to.

And he said at first he didn't believe him because he was like, yeah, I killed all these people.

And then he said he got a call from the scene and they're like, yeah, with the refrigerator, we found heads.

And then he had to go back over it.

Yeah.

Patrick Kennedy.

Patrick Kennedy.

Yeah.

He died, unfortunately.

He looks young.

He was a giant six foot seven beast of of a man, very nice guy.

But he

and he admitted that when Dahmer died, he got emotional because he had gotten to know him.

And he goes, he kind of got a little bit, he cried.

He said when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed, because he was a bad guy, but he's still, you know, whatever.

When you know someone, you know him.

But a murderer, that's a good question.

I don't know.

But never OJ, huh?

Never talked to OJ.

I corresponded with him once.

I sent him a DM trying to get him on the radio show, and he did respond to me, but we never got him on.

This was after he got out of jail

for the Vegas thing.

My buddy has a story where they were in New York one night and they were doing some cocaine.

And this was after the murders.

And somebody was like, oh, I don't have a key on me.

And OJ pulled a knife out of his jacket.

And they did it off of the knife.

He jimmied the lock?

No, they just.

Oh, the Coke.

The Coke.

They were doing the cocaine.

And they pulled the knife out.

And they did the,

and they were all looking at him like it was fucking crazy that he would do that

why would you carry that yeah and the only thing crazier than that is me acting like someone's aunt what they couldn't get in the house what an asshole how did i miss the point of that i apologize ice cold i'm stupid i'm a stupid man you're talking about doing coke and i'm like what did they jimmy the lock oh fucking blithering old idiots I'm an old man.

Yeah,

that's a very bizarre.

Maybe OJ had to at that point, though, because

people had such strong feelings about that.

Maybe he was afraid somebody was going to jump out and take a shot at him

or attack him.

You never met him.

Yeah, I don't know.

I feel like we had a chance to meet him when he was doing podcasts and he was getting paid for them for a while.

Yeah.

And we didn't buy it.

We didn't go into that.

I would love to.

I met Kevorkian once, but Ron Bennington, I think, interviewed him and he was there.

So I took a picture with Dr.

Kvorkian, but I would love to have gotten to talk to him, but I never got to talk to him, unfortunately.

Some of them he's like, fuck.

Did you guys have Trump on your show sometimes?

He called in a couple of times.

Matt and I for UFC Unfiltered interviewed Trump.

It was before he got the nomination for the, we knew he was going to get it, but it was like in between, Biden was president.

And

they reached out to us.

They're like, do you want to interview President Trump?

We're like, yeah.

So we went to Vegas and we did it in the

Trump Hotel.

And he was really great.

Like it was a sports interview because Dana's like, I don't want this to be politics.

This is not a political show.

We talked to him for about 40 minutes.

About boxing and stuff.

Boxing, MMA, because Trump was a great friend to the UFC.

He was a tremendous asset to the UFC long before they had what they have now.

And Dana speaks about that a lot.

His brain, dude, his brain, whether people love him politically or not doesn't matter.

I sat in the room with him.

His fucking brain was really sharp.

People thought we had cue cards set up because his answers were so on the money and he remembered every fighter and he remembered every fight.

And people are like, these guys had cue cards set up.

And he was very sharp.

So, and he was nice to my wife when I introduced him.

So, I had a great time talking to him.

Yeah.

You can't not.

Anybody who wins the presidency has some form of charisma.

Oh, yeah.

I'm always people like, you had that.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Do you know the street I grew up on?

If I didn't interview a president and I had the chance, if I didn't sit with people, whether I agree with them or don't agree with them, like, how the fuck am I supposed to know anything about them or get any feeling as a human as to what they may or may not be like or how they operate?

It's like, I would sit down with the devil probably and at least see if I could get a feel for some of his future plans.

Absolutely.

And then just, I would keep looking at his little cloven feet.

Where do you get your shoes from, Dev?

But yeah, who wouldn't want to sit with the Prenton?

Like, again, anyone who's mine.

I would show the same respect to Biden or Camilla.

And any of them I talk to, I would be respectful to, and have a nice conversation with.

There's this weird line where people are like, how could you talk to Trump?

Shut up.

Yeah.

Tell me.

Shut the fuck fuck up.

You don't have the chance to talk to any of these people.

And I don't mean that in a negative way, but fuck you.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with

whoever wants to interview somebody.

Why should just the quote-unquote press have access to people?

If they're willing to come on and talk, why wouldn't you talk to them?

But then I do

some of those guys interviewed Netanyahu and I did not like that, though.

Oh, so you had that kind of feeling?

Yep.

I'm just thinking that out loud.

So I guess there's a part of me that doesn't really feel that way.

But if you didn't, there's a difference between not liking something and vocalism.

I wouldn't interview him.

And vocal.

You wouldn't, you choose to choose not to.

Maybe you could interview him and ask him tough questions.

I think I would probably try to ask him stuff that really means something to me.

Sure.

And that's fair.

Like that, they know that if you're Netanyahu or you're Trump or you're Biden, you know that when you go into an interview, part of it might be this guy asking you questions from a belief system that is not yours.

So you might hear things you don't like.

But yeah, that'd be the best thing to do is to interview him and ask him shit that he might not want to answer, but that you want to know the answer to.

Do you think think that's better than not interviewing somebody?

It's personal preference.

I mean, I don't think you're wrong to not want to talk to somebody.

I think if you go, nah, I'd rather not, I think that's perfectly fair.

But I think that

part of the

thing, too, is when you're sitting in the room with somebody, no matter who they are, even if you hate them, there is sometimes something about them that you connect to and like, and it becomes harder to hate them.

Again, it doesn't have to be a politician.

I've met people like Lauren Bobart.

I don't know her.

I don't agree with her politics.

And I met her once and she was very nice.

It's Kid Rock's girlfriend.

Not his girlfriend, is it?

I don't know.

I met her.

She was at a Kill Tony event.

But she was so nice.

And I enjoyed chatting with her.

And it's like, even if I don't agree with her, I don't have the same feelings about her that are bad.

Like, you know what I mean?

Because I've met her and she was nice.

Oh, for sure.

It's harder for me to look at her like just this.

person who's got no real feelings and no real connection to anything.

Oh, yeah.

She got them bumpers on her too.

She is quite attractive.

Yeah, yeah.

She looks great.

I got zero vibes off her, but I mean, she was, you know, as I shouldn't have.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter.

But she was nice.

So when you meet somebody, sometimes you think you know what they're going to be like and they wind up impressing you and you're like, ugh, it's harder for me to dislike them.

But although

that's such a controversial issue, I'm not saying you would like the guy, but you know what I mean?

Sitting across from him, you may feel differently or you may hate him more.

Right.

Yeah, there is something about sitting across from somebody or at least sitting across from them.

There is some connection of like spatial energy of something like that.

Because I think it is human to want to find some commonality with people.

Yeah, you want to find something that

you kind of like, it's funny.

We were interviewing one time Ben Kingsley.

And I remember talking to him.

Who is he?

He was in, like, he was in the, he's just, he's an actor.

He was in, I think, did he play Gandhi?

He might have played Gandhi.

He's been in everything.

I mean, Ben Kingsley.

Yeah, he's, he's been, did he play Gandhi?

I could be, he's a very famous actor.

He had a a great, great, yeah, he was Gandhi.

Wow.

He's been around for a while.

I was thinking of Peter Billingsley, I too I'm thinking of.

Who's Peter Billingsley?

I know that name, too.

He is

the guy who kissed that pipe and he got

tongue stuck on it.

Oh, in the

Christmas story.

Yes, yes.

But we were just talking to Ben Kingsley.

Okay, no, no, no.

I just remember talking to him, and he was answering me.

And I remember thinking, in any other circumstance, this guy wouldn't fucking spit on me.

Like, he would never talk to me at a party or at a premiere.

But in this weird setting, I'm like, so what about, and he's like, well, and he's like giving a real answer.

And it's such an odd thing interviewing somebody like people that normally would never acknowledge you now have to listen to you and actually think about how to answer your question.

It's a weird psychology.

And I remember that just struck me when I was talking to him because our worlds are so different.

Like he would never talk to me in real life.

Got it.

And I've never talked to him again.

Right.

I see what you're saying.

I can't think of someone I wouldn't interview, but maybe if it was brought up in front of me, I might say no.

Yeah.

I can't think of anyone.

I think I would just, I start to realize that some people will just use you, they, and you don't realize it.

Like, I used to think like everybody just wants to come and they want to have a conversation and stuff.

You can learn stuff about each other.

But then some people just want to use, like, they'll use you to get their message out there.

And I think I didn't realize sometimes that that's how things work.

Yes.

And so I think I've noticed that more over time.

So maybe that would keep me out of certain conversations, you know?

It depends.

And maybe like with Yetan Yahoo.

You're afraid that he would just use you to message.

I feel like his group is so calculated that they would be able to do it in a way that I wouldn't even maybe see it.

You know, I don't know.

I think that all anyone in public life, especially in like official politicians, congressmen, they all do this thing where they have talking points and

they're masters at veering back to a talking point.

And when they're bad at it, we hate them.

Sometimes they're good at it and you don't realize they're doing it.

But most times we're savvy enough to go, what are you fucking?

They're like, look, you know, you'll be like, well, yeah, but what about that thing where they did find the dead prostitute in your closet?

No, I know, but the thing with the economy is, and they're right back to talking about their, and you're like, you didn't answer the fucking question.

That's why so many of them are so hatable.

Because I think we've gotten a little bit better at seeing it now

when they're back on their talking points.

Yeah.

And that's why, that's why I love the interview that we did with Trump because it was just, it really was just a conversation about sports.

And I would love to have, I wish I had told him how much I love that he talked to Kim Jong-un.

I didn't get to say that to him.

I wish I had.

I just forgot afterwards, but we were saying our goodbyes and he was taking pictures of everybody.

And I wish I had told him, like, I love that he went to North Korea and tried.

Like, I love that he made an effort with that little short, weird guy.

And be cool, huh?

You think Un is cool or what?

If you're a Chicago Bull, yeah.

Like, if you played for the Bulls, he's awesome.

Right.

You know, if your uncle is in the military and made a questionable decision, you're executed.

I imagine there's a downside to it.

Depends on who you are.

Yeah, dude.

He looks fucking cool, dude.

He looked interesting to beat.

Like, here's what I would think with him.

I would be afraid that I'd be in North Korea and there's a language barrier and he would want to toast with alcohol.

And I would try to tell him, like, I'm an alcoholic.

So I would have to refuse the drink.

And that would start a whole you insulted the leader.

thing.

Yeah, you wouldn't know.

I think sometimes whenever you insulted them, I think that would be kind of, yeah, something like that could be really mis misskewed or something you know who fascinates me the sultan of brunei really who owns like the beverly hilton like that's like that's a guy who lives a that that'd be a fun guy to know oh because he i might go to duba abu dhabi for

ufc in october who's fighting or november i don't know what the card is i see you at all the events like i even if i'm home watching i'm on the road they always pant you you're always there early i love you're always there early yeah well i just get to see like you know chris widen was fighting on his retirement fight i think was fighting on the i thought it was the main it might have even been the first fight of the main card or something but like i mean there's just so many great fights i just can't believe that people aren't there these are like guys that are going in there and women that are giving it there i mean it's like where are you i wish i scheduled better because they just announced uh i think jackdella madelena and makachev at the uh uh in the garden in november and i immediately look at my schedule i'm in oregon and i'm like nothing against oregon no but it just hurts yeah i probably didn't even say it right.

Yeah.

Oregon.

Or the fuck your thumb state is.

I'm coming.

What, um, oh, you know what?

One of my favorite conversations was that ever had honestly was with Louie.

It was whenever we chose it because we didn't know each other at all.

Right.

Right.

And we like, we just laughed and got to know each other.

And then after that, we became closer.

But that was one of my favorite podcasts ever, probably.

He loves you.

And it's funny, your name came up while we were traveling.

And he's like, he's a really great guy.

He just raved about you.

I didn't know that you were going to be talking to him, or I was going to be even,

you were going to be seeing him this week.

It was a nice surprise.

Yeah, he's a special guy.

He is.

It'd be hard to be him, I feel like, because he has so many thoughts and he's so able to look around the corner of thoughts and possibilities.

Like, I mean, really to like, like,

fuck, it almost feels like it'd be scary to be him.

Does that make any sense?

No, 100%

because his brain operates so well.

Like, it's such an interesting and unique brain.

Like, he helped me fix a joke that I wound up doing in the special.

He saw me doing it at the seller.

He's like, You might want to say it like this.

And I did, and it fixed it.

It was better.

Like, so when you have a guy like that, like he just sees something and he lasers in on it.

Uh, and the material is so good.

His new hour is so good.

And he's changing the order every night, trying this, trying that.

Um,

you know, yeah, he's he's brilliant, man.

That word is overused on people, but he truly is brilliant.

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I think, well, oh, did you grow?

You grew up in New Jersey, right?

I did, Central Jersey.

Did you get to ever meet James J.

Braddock or not?

Who's James J.

Braddock?

No.

The Cinderella man?

Never met him.

Where's he from in Jersey?

We may miss him.

Oregon.

No, but that's not that far from me.

Joey Diaz used to shovel his driveway.

Is he dead or alive?

Joey's alive, but this is.

No, I know Joey.

Oh, yeah.

James E.

Braddock is dead.

I mean, it's looking

good.

But if I didn't know if Joey Diaz was, that would be sucked if he was dead.

I was like, oh, sorry.

I just talked to him.

Yeah, Braddock, dude.

That Cinderella man's the best.

You seen that?

I have.

Have I seen that?

I don't think I have.

Wow.

I don't think I have.

No, and I was six when he died.

I was born in 68.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't realize he died that early.

Oh, you and Nikki got to watch put on some condoms and watch this thing, dude.

Condoms, forget it.

Not before, during, or after our marriage.

While I ever use one of those boolean

things,

win if he wined it.

But, oh, this is my favorite movie.

I just watched Silverlining's Playbook again.

That movie's so good.

That was very good.

Yeah.

De Niro and Bradley Cooper.

I just watched

Irish Mickey Ward movie, The Fighter.

I don't know if I saw that.

Oh, it's so good.

I think we've interviewed Mickey Ward, though, but I don't remember if I could.

I could see that.

Yeah,

he's still alive, right?

He's out.

I don't know what he was promoting.

UFC guys, by the way, are the nicest of all the athletes to interview.

So funny.

I've interviewed boxers, they tend to be a little standoffish, a little too cool for the room.

You keep the sunglasses on, but UFC five, there's a humility to them.

And Rogan said it's because like they get tapped a lot in the gym.

When you're training, you're being submitted and you're submitting.

So there's a humility there that you keep because there's always somebody kind of getting the better of you.

And maybe that's what it is.

I don't know.

But I like those guys the best.

I think that makes sense.

Oh, yes.

Getting to be around some of those guys.

Dude, I accidentally called,

I called one of the fighters, Steve Miochik, and it was not him.

Oh, no.

And I asked.

Is it a woman?

Yep.

I asked two UFC employees.

I was like, is that Steve?

Like, yes, that's him.

And I went over to say, hey, and it wasn't.

It was John

Drakovic, Bron, Jan.

Jan Blahovich?

Jan Blahovich.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And

it was just fucking scary for a minute.

Would you say, hey, Stepe?

Yeah.

I was like, like, hey, how's the retirement going?

And I think he didn't want to, you know, if a guy's not retired, you probably don't want to hear that.

And I kind of like tickled him a little because I know Stepe a little.

And it was just fucking tough.

But, you know, you win some, you lose some.

He did give me a nice look later on that made me feel a little bit better, but just you got to be careful.

Like, yeah, it's funny.

Like, it's almost like whenever you get too, like.

You're like around a pit bull for a little while at a party.

Like, oh, now we're buddies.

Yeah.

You just want to be a little careful sometimes around those guys.

You want to be a little bit careful because you never know what past trauma you remind them of in a minute when you do something.

I had a, I was in LA one time many years ago, and I walked up, and it was Patrick Swayze was coming out of a restaurant.

So I walked up.

Was he handsome?

Very.

And I go, Dude, I love you.

Can we take a picture?

And I'm like,

I'm such a fan, Patrick.

And he goes, I'm not Patrick.

And it was David Keith.

And he was with a date.

Whoa,

that was embarrassing.

That was fucking embarrassing.

I thought it was Swayze.

It wasn't.

Oh, that is heavy.

I could see that a little bit.

That was years ago.

That looks like Robert Wool, actually.

Oh, did I fuck up?

I just got nervous.

It was Keith David, you mean?

Oh, David Keith is one's black, one's white.

Oh, David Keith.

Sorry.

Did I say Keith David?

Keith David.

I look on Keith David.

Keith David's black.

If it was him.

Yeah, he was in platoon.

Mr.

Swayze.

David Keith is white.

He was an officer and a gentleman.

David Keith is a great actor.

Oh, yeah.

I just panicked.

Oh, for sure.

I was just nervous.

Keith David, I met in an airport one time in LAX, the coolest guy in history.

He's wearing like a completely white suit and white coat with a fucking white hat.

That guy's just awesome.

Yeah.

He was also in that.

That Michael Douglas, what was the movie?

Platoon?

No.

Spartacus.

It was a drug movie uh

where the girl requiem for a dream i think he was in that movie was interesting yeah uh i think jared leto was in that and he was really uh keith david is tremendous but in platoon

you know yeah that was a different time yeah that was embarrassing though i relate to that it's humiliating yeah i'm trying to think i know there's been some like that that i've had but i think sometimes i just can't i think sometimes my brain just shuts down do you ever panic around people like that like where like my brain is not working and i'm just like lost and i'm like i know i i should be more comfortable like but they're famous or whatever it is oh yeah I met John Johnny Depp came to the comedy store one night and it's still like a moment of lore because it was like uh doug stanhope brought him yep and they were in the green room at the in the main room and everybody was in there and i was like i got there and they're like uh don't tell anybody johnny depp's here and i knew when they're telling me i was like they've told everybody they're telling me and so i go back in there and then all you know like you don't even know who else in the room is like 50 people in this little room and john and then like i got to somehow got to say i said hello mr Depp and then I had nothing else to say and it was very uncomfortable and I realized I was just there for me kind of and I just got out of there yeah it's embarrassing because you want to say something but sometimes a person's famous and I like their work but I don't have anything to say to them like hey I admire your work and that's kind of uh

you know where do you go from there if you have nothing legitimate to say

and I've I've done that I've humiliated myself uh but they got to be used to it too they're like and some of them will be helpful to you they'll kind of ask you something to fucking put you back on your feet, you know?

Or someone will shake you and be like, you're not a f son or whatever, you know?

No one's ever shaken me and said that.

I've tried to say that in the mirror and I just wanna be laughing.

Jim has a crash chest dummy and he's just like one of those battling dummies, but he just uses

give it uplifting, positive, semi-homosexual.

You're straight, Jim.

Yeah,

no, you're not.

Get back in there, Jim.

You're straight.

You can do it.

It's not scary.

It doesn't have teeth.

Yeah, no.

Oh, here's my Johnny Depp story.

I was at,

I got invited to.

It was Ozzie's actual 70th birthday party.

I got to go to that.

Wow.

In the U.S.?

It was at his house in Beverly Hills.

And it was amazing.

There was a lot of great people there.

And Johnny Depp was walking around.

And I was talking to him.

And he was very nice.

And I talked to him three or four different times.

We took a picture and then I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator.

Stupid, no-show biz Jim Norton.

Like my aunt, again, I fell for it.

It was a Johnny Depp, 20 years younger than Johnny Depp, by the way.

And I fucking fell for it.

Hookline and sinker.

All night you're over there.

I do.

I'm like, Johnny Depp, I got a picture.

I've gotten, Dice got me on the road years ago.

We were on the road in like late 90s.

He goes, that's Charlie Daniels.

So I took a picture with this guy.

It was just some fucking hayseed in a cowboy hat.

Oh, they got me so good.

They got me.

One time we were in the airport.

It was an Opie and Anthony trip.

We were going somewhere.

And

one of the Jonas brothers was talking to his dad.

They were traveling.

And I'm not a fan of the Jonas brothers.

And I don't know their names.

But I'm like, I got it.

I'll take a picture with them.

So I walk over and I just start talking to this 15-year-old kid and his dad.

And

almost wanted to take a picture if you don't mind and i look and they're all laughing and i realize it's just some fucking kid and his dad i creepily approached some 15 year old they're sitting in the airport eating lunch and some fucking old blinking pederers looking guy wants a photo with this boy he's cool

oh my god

cold coffee and the faust head is this nothing better than her head movements

Oh my god.

She looks like the cop in Dog Day Afternoon.

Keep her soft drinks.

Take her soft drinks.

But yeah, that was...

I've gotten I've gotten God a few times like that, thinking it's a fucking celebrity.

It's humiliating.

But I deserve it.

Yeah, and we all need stuff like that, man.

It's the stuff like that that

just keeps you alive, I feel like.

Yep.

And when you get one of your friends.

And like,

I do like the ability to like just go like, you're an idiot.

It's funny.

Yeah, to laugh at yourself.

And what better thing?

To hit on a kid and also realize you're not a pedophile.

Well, I wasn't hitting, I didn't, I didn't think he was cute.

I just wanted a picture.

I wasn't hitting on him.

I didn't say to him, son, if you need to go to the restroom, may I escort?

No, I was just trying to take a picture while they ate lunch, some fucking kiosk at the airport.

And the father, they looked at me like, what?

And I just happened to see Anthony and the rest of the guys fucking laughing.

And I'm like, yeah,

yeah, they got me.

I'm like, sorry, I just don't want to have my camera out.

Fucking jerk off.

Oh my God, dude.

Yeah.

Oh, I don't know why.

That's what that's for some reason.

It's just so perfect.

That was one thing that was nice about before, like, social media and everything.

Like, everything was possible.

Nobody in a moment's notice could be like, that's not them, or this isn't possible.

You could lie to people, but you couldn't lie to people, but you could make stuff up.

There was so much room for creativity and possibility and everything because everybody didn't have all of the like hypothetical answers at the, at the, at their wedding.

All information.

Yeah.

But looking at, yeah, like I could have just googled them and then seen, I mean, I imagine that I could have at that point either.

I was just so, I thought it'd be so much fun to get a picture with one of the Jonas brothers.

Yeah.

I get pictures of people I don't give a fuck.

I stopped doing that now as I'm older, but for a long time I did it.

It was fun.

And we had so many celebrities coming through your world, too.

At one point, there were a lot.

Yeah.

I mean, that show was crazy to be in that lobby in that big building in New York, like, especially for young comics.

You go there and there's like, it looks like outer space when you get there downstairs the first time.

If you haven't been in there, and it's those glass, like something turns green and it opens it up.

But first, you have to go talk to somebody who's usually usually a diversity hire.

I'm going to say it in a suit over there downstairs.

And they would call up to somebody magically somewhere.

You would get the thumbs up.

They give you a little barcode.

And now you're like,

the doors open and then bing.

And it just, the elevator like almost is like, come in here.

And then you, and then

you go so high to your ears pop, and you get out.

And like fucking

Evander Holyfield is in the lobby, or like Doja Cat, or fucking Katie Perry.

Everybody's waiting to go into some little enclave to get their voice out to the world.

It was crazy.

It was crazy.

And Stern was right down the hall too.

So he would always have huge guests.

Yeah.

I nailed McCartney coming out of his studio one time.

I got a picture with McCartney.

That was a big one.

Pele, I got.

Like, I've got, if they weren't there for my show, but I still would, if they're in the lobby, I'm like, it's fair game.

Yeah.

And usually they would take it, you know, because you're in that, it's kind of a closed environment.

But yeah, that would, that was one,

that was one.

That's a good shot with us, too.

I've always hated how my dumb neck looks.

But

yeah, because I was doing it for a selfie, and then McCarty goes, let my guy do it.

So I handed it to his security guy.

He was actually very nice.

And yeah, that's a great, a great shot.

That's a pretty good picture, man.

It's very risky handing it to someone else, too, because you have no control over what they're going to do.

No control.

But because Paul suggested it, I knew the guy would do as he was at.

It wasn't like I just handed it to some guy and I'm like, quickly.

He asked the guy, and he probably knew, let me just get this fucking weird egg-headed kid out of here and go about my day.

Yeah, this is a special needs adult.

It really, yeah, it is.

I don't look particularly mentally healthy there or handsome.

Did you feel like you were handsome when you were a kid or not?

Never.

Really?

No, I look back now.

I was like, I was a cute little boy.

I looked back.

I was like, yeah, when I was, I was five.

I get why a lot of the older kids saw my face and deserved.

That we should hump that.

I got it.

I got it.

Were there a lot of predators in your neighborhood and shit?

No, we were all in the same age group.

There was maybe a couple, but uh, no, we were all.

My therapist tells me I was my last dude, but I was like, yeah, I was kind of volunteering for it.

I was there for it.

You know what I mean?

Like, I was, yeah, I don't think so.

I was hanging out on the mistletoe type of.

Yeah, I was, I was, I was in on it, you know.

Uh, oh, that's me at 17.

That's that's you.

That's me at 17.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, you're a young gym.

Young, young urban gym with a lot of attitude.

Wow, I did not see this.

You look like somebody that would work for Neil Brennan.

You know what I'm saying?

You look like a black, like definitely like a young Wigga type of child.

Yeah,

that hat really should have been removed from my head white with the clockwork orange shirt.

I didn't know what I wanted to be.

It's a you, yeah, yeah.

You're doing a lot of things here.

That's why when I see people with these identity crises, like with with the uh, when especially when they're like political about it or whatever, I understand the identity crisis.

We all have them in time.

And eventually you grow into who you are.

Oh, yeah, dude.

I was doing the black thing for as a while for a kid.

I did like the Nirvana thing, Stone Temple Pilots.

You know, I did all the things.

Marilyn Manson, I went down a lot of different roads, the religious, you know, like different things.

Just like you were like, yeah, you're trying shit on.

You're trying stuff on.

Like, and that was, I was into like the little white kid who thinks he's black.

I was doing that long before it was fashionable.

Like in the 80s, like, you know, when Adidas still had fat laces and that was considered.

But then you grow out of it.

And then you just kind of, somebody said one time, like, instead of looking for who you are, just get rid of all the shit that you're not.

And whoever you are just shows up.

And that kind of made sense.

Like, just stop looking for it and just live.

And you'll find.

But I see so many people in life now looking for an identity.

That's what so much of the stuff is.

Public, you know what I mean?

People that are so adamant, always talk, always talking about the same thing, always talking about the same thing.

You're like, you want an identity.

You just, you're looking to,

you want a little prefab identity, like a little.

And do you think there's a way that we can get to know, like, so one of the things you just said is, like, get rid of the things that you're not, right?

Sure.

Like, yeah, how do we find our identity more?

Because I wonder if we used to be better at that.

I feel like if we used to have more of communication with like our parents, like, you know, like back in like almost like caveman time, something, was there something more that your identity was kind of shaped with just being able to survive, right?

And now we have this, all this other, like,

this, all this other fucking ornamentation that helps us get a reflection of ourselves i just wonder if it was different or if how do how do we find our identity better i wonder well there's also is no there was less pressure then because now immediately everybody weighs in so there's this pressure to weigh in so we don't drown like we want to just be above the above sea level we just want to survive and be noticed and be alive so there's no time for it it's almost like that's why people have these again these almost like big like when you see a house being driven down the street on the back of a flatbed like that prefab pre-built house that's how people are with politics and with social issues they there's no time to go looking for nuance and it's like okay that's my that's my that's that's why i am and that that's that's what's who i'm associated with everybody's so afraid of being run over by all of it um so i think just don't don't listen to what everybody else is saying i don't give a shit what other people think about stuff there i don't begrudge them but i don't care like i have plenty of friends whose politics i totally disagree with i don't give a fuck did you always have a did you have a tough time when you were young like finding your like deciding i'm gonna make my own choice for myself can you bring me one more water trevin We'll finish up in a couple minutes.

That's fine.

Um, I have to piss.

I don't believe it's gonna be going this long.

How long the time?

Probably two hours.

What?

You want to pee really fast?

Can I?

Yeah, because I'm loving this chip.

There's a bathroom right behind that curtain.

Oh, okay.

Awesome.

Dude, one thing I noticed about having a pee, dude, is

as I get older, that kind of is not fun.

But here's what I noticed: some of these underpants, the stuff on them is too tight.

So all night, your bladder has to pee, even with just a little bit of liquid in it.

It's pressing all night.

You're absolutely right.

And also the fact getting fatter doesn't help.

Like when I fly,

I hate that feeling pressing on my bladder.

I always wear sweatpants and no underwear when I fly.

And it's not to be creepy.

It's because this way I feel like I'm not as confined as I was.

I piss constantly.

So the fact that I can go for however long we've been talking without peeing.

Every time I do Rogan, I got to pee at least twice.

Oh, yeah.

It's so hard in there.

Yeah, but I'll always just go, I got to piss.

And usually he does too.

So it's not a big deal.

But like sometimes you just talk right through it and you're like i have to go to the bathroom what am i doing oh when like when you're riding the bag when you're sleeping at night and you have to pee and you don't get up yep that mesmerizing dark thing you do you're like i'm just gonna lay here have you ever wet the bed as an adult oh no as a kid i wet to bed all oh i went to bed i was probably 27.

i wet once last time i did No, I've done it more recently than that.

I've done it since my wife has been there too.

A few times I've wet the bed.

Yeah.

But I don't care.

I don't feel bad.

Sam used to think I was crazy, but I'm like, it happens once in a while.

A lot.

You sleep every night and you pee every day.

You don't think they're going to cross paths once in a while?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, like two ships passing in the once in a while.

They meet.

You think it's crazy?

Yeah.

Once in a while, you're asleep and you have to piss and you're like, I'm no, and you dream about being in a pool.

You dream about it being in the ocean and you wake up and there's urine on you.

And I go right back to sleep.

I'll throw a towel on it, of course.

I'm not an animal.

Oh, I'll put a little sawdust on it.

Yeah, a little something and I'll lay into it.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

But I remember as a kid, I was so scared going to bed that I had to do all these checks and balances in my room because I didn't realize why I went to bed for so long.

And it wasn't like about six months ago I was remembering, oh, dude, well, when you went to bed every night, you would have to like look in, open a door, look in a closet, look at a certain way, lean something against the door on the inside, then on the outside, you'd have to like look at certain, like it was, no joke, it was probably a 13-minute process every night.

What were you afraid of?

I was just afraid of like people getting in from outdoors.

I was afraid of like killers, murders, just these hypothetical kind of boogeymen, you know?

And we lived in like this kind of scary neighborhood.

So I was just, I was just scared of all that.

And, but I remember like, dude, no wonder you slept in fucking crazy fear.

I would fall asleep like this so something couldn't cut my throat.

I remember.

Really?

And it was so funny.

I didn't, for I forgot about this, but for years I did that.

And I was like, dude, no wonder you.

With your hands?

You sleep like that?

Yeah, I would sleep like that because I didn't want something to cut my throat.

I wanted to cut my hand first so I would know.

Right, right.

Yeah, of course.

And I don't know what, what made me so scared.

Although if somebody had the wherewithal to get in with a knife, they could have just taken a feather and tickled your nose and then you would have went like that and then they could have fucking sliced the jugular.

There's ways around that.

Yeah, I didn't think I had.

Do you sleep on your back?

I can't sleep on my back.

No, that's crazy.

Oh, you lay on your side like that?

I'll lay on my side.

Yeah, okay.

That I can do.

That I feel like is okay.

I wanted to talk about Kill Tony.

You've been labeled by some as one of the best Kill Tony guests, which is kind of rare because they hate everybody kind of they do yeah they're they're like old oh and a fans too they're just animals yeah they're animals they hate everyone um but i think i i love doing that show like uh

you did the garden yeah i did yeah it was like a five or six minute stand-up set that's cool it's tough to do there it is a different energy man and i i did it last year but they they didn't film it for they just kind of shot it for clips um but when you're doing the panel i would rather like at the mothership i've done the panel a lot and uh i i always like to to give the if i can give the comics a bit of advice i try to because a lot of those guys are really terrible and a lot of them are really good but they're just raw and as a new comic man i was so

easily wounded that if someone like made it seem like i really had nothing i probably would have quit so i always try to like fuck around and if I can say something that helps them, I try to.

That's a good point.

Yeah, I think I remember now when you said that, I remember like one of the first nights I ever did comedy or maybe the third or fourth time.

Like I started like down in new orleans and mark norman was there um dane fauche a couple some some local guys scotland green some different comedians down there and um

but i remember the bartender said hey man you did a good job and just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months you know yeah because somebody who who's in the know somebody who's in that scene recognized it and went hey you're right the bartender in a comedy club or in a comedy scene they see everybody yeah so when they like you you're like all right i must be doing something right because they see everyone who comes comes.

There was a guy named Rob at Rascals, who's a bartender, and he always liked me.

And he was always like, yeah, you're really funny, man.

And that gave me confidence back then because every comic came through there.

And the fact that Rob thought I was funny meant something.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's like when other comics respect you.

Oh, yeah.

You feel like, fuck, I'm doing something right because the guys that are the hardest to make laugh or the most critical about it like what I'm doing.

Yeah, one night I was coming off stage and Bill Burr said something.

I had to go on before him at the Dolby Theater and I was so nervous.

I'd never even been on a theater stage before, and I did pretty good, right?

It just went good.

And I was coming off, and he's like,

pretty good, man.

You know, some, some little, even just getting him to even fucking, even if he just spit on my back, it would have, you know, yeah, if he'd have come on one of my legs, I would have been like, that's thank you.

He's just multiple migs to that.

Yeah.

Have the, has the audience stopped cheering, Clarice?

But yeah, it would have been perfect, dude.

But yeah, just, it's so funny, little things like that.

Um, what do you think about Kill Tony and that whole like when you see that what do you think about do you see it as a phenomenon like do you see it as like a change like what do you think about it i think it's great because it gives a lot the people who bad mouth it it's like it's really it's honest it's like these young guys are getting up on stage some are brand new and you're watching this minute process it's very hard to be funny in a minute so hard and i love the fact that because tony is so fast like he really is quick like lightning fucking fast and when he plays with people sometimes they'll be terrible on stage but they'll win him over in the interview so he gives you a shot you have a fair shot at kill tony no you can't no one can interrupt your minute and during the interview if you have a comics brain and you're funny you'll be acknowledged as being funny even if your set wasn't good

i don't feel like there's any bias like hey we're gonna get this guy because he thinks this or we're gonna choose that guy because he thinks that i agree i think there's a very it's a very honest

formula.

I love doing it.

And I just have a fun time when I do it.

It's so pressure-free.

And it's just fun to fuck around and riff.

It's like radio.

Like, I love doing that show.

Yeah.

And you get to be around other guys, like you're saying.

You know, you just get to be around another group of like comics.

You're all together.

There's the blind guy.

There's the Chris Rogers is doing art.

You know, it's like, or the black guy, they took his eyes out for being black or whatever, which is like, come on, dude.

Those times have changed, but okay.

And then Tony is in a weird way.

It's so perfect because Tony's almost always, he's kind of the bad guy.

Yes.

He's the wizard, but he's also the bad guy.

Right.

Like, so,

you know, he's like, because he's so like, he can be so

just cutting.

Yes.

That in the end, he's almost always the bad guy.

And yeah, some of those people are setting themselves up for complete failure.

Some of them just want a moment of that pain of being up there.

And some of them, they're getting up there to try it.

And it probably gets a lot of those bugs out of their, just the nerves out of their system.

Yeah, if you can survive in that, it's a huge stage.

Even if you're just doing the mothership, you still know how many people are going to see it.

And he's a sniper.

Like, you know what I mean?

He picks up on everything.

But if you're good, if he thinks you're funny,

he won't like, go, oh, let me go trash this guy because I have to.

He'll acknowledge you as being funny and have a good time talking to you.

So I think if you go into it with that and you know, like, hey, it can go either way,

I think you're going to have a good time.

But i couldn't have done it six months in i would have been fucking terrified to do that show six months in oh it would have been so crazy and that just shows you that times are different somehow i think with people seeing clips of things the the the psychology of society changes and how people are able to be something and and i like when i was coming up i couldn't have just i don't think gone and done that and known that that many people could see it it would have been way too scary yeah it would have been terrifying but the balls on like because they see guys like all these guys that are coming through they're all doing well yeah the ones that have kind of come through, you know, Cam Patterson is doing great.

He just made SNL.

He did.

Okay, I had heard that, but I didn't want to say it.

I didn't know if they announced it yet.

He just took it.

Please.

Good for Cam.

Good.

Yeah, I heard that last week.

Good for him.

Tommy Brennan,

Jeremy Colhane, Cam Patterson, and Veronica

Slowikowska.

Oh, that's great.

Good for you.

Yeah, I'm happy that that was official.

I congratulate them.

I'm like, I won't say.

Ari Maddy is very funny.

Christina Mariani.

Christina Mariani is very funny, too.

Yeah.

There's very a good group of people there.

And I know I'm Fiona Collie.

I'm forgetting some people.

So I apologize.

Fiona's from here, I think, isn't she?

Is she red-headed?

Yes.

I don't know where she's from.

Is she

does she seem like she's like in a wheelchair or whatever?

I did get that impression.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Very, very definitely got that impression when she wheeled in.

I wasn't, I was saying she didn't seem like it.

Like right now, I seem like I'm in a wheelchair because I'm sitting here.

But when somebody wheels in, you can say without reservation, that person's in a wheelchair.

And blessings, Fiona.

She should be on SNL.

She's great.

She and I have actually worked together on the same show a few times.

So I just, yeah, yeah, same.

Yeah, definitely.

I like that whole crew.

And they're all nice.

Like,

you see them on the events now, and they're getting real followings.

So many of them.

So it's nice to see

these young comics doing really well.

And some people, I don't want anybody to begrudge those guys.

It's like there's room for everybody.

Like, Mr.

Rogan always says, and that's one thing that I admire about him the most.

He always says that there's room for everybody.

There's room for all of us to lift each other up.

Yeah, like I'm not afraid of my spot.

And like, we all, as we get older, you feel like, oh, I suck.

I'm worthless.

Like, it's, it's just a part of what made me a comic to begin with.

I mean, if I had great self-esteem, I would not have gotten into this line of work.

Yeah.

That part of me has remained the same.

But as far as shitting on other people or trying to keep other people down because of what they say or their belief, it's just such a weak, pussy thing to do.

It's like, who the fuck cares?

Like, I don't care what other guys are talking about on stage, as long as you're not stealing material.

Whatever point of view you're talking about, good, make it funny.

Yeah, I don't even have time to think about that.

No, but guys do.

You do the joke from the wrong angle, and people are like, whoa.

And I'm like,

and it's dishonest.

When people criticize that, it's not like, hey, I'm old and I can't handle young people being involved.

It's that I think it's dishonest.

And like attacking other comics for material points of view is a way for you to climb socially.

It's become one more way to climb the ladder.

It's not based, these purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder.

They give you a purity test, you fail, they climb a little higher because they gave the test.

It's nonsense.

But that ladder has fallen so far down into side.

I think people are just like, whatever that whole system was for so long is disappearing so much.

You know, I think that's why it's like,

yeah, I don't know.

People just make their own choices now.

Like, who's going to listen to some article or some fuck?

You know, it's like, I believe we're in a space where more and more it feels like people would make their own choices, but maybe not.

You hope so.

I mean, and I've never, like, I never, no one changes my mind.

Like, I think for myself, like,

everyone can say what they want because I think for myself, like, people will say things about, like, well, when he says that, they'll come after Rogan.

Well, what he says is dangerous.

And I'm like, well, have you listened to him?

And they're like, yeah, did he change your mind?

No.

Well, then, why don't you give everybody that credit?

Like, people give themselves the ability to

go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public are a bunch of blithering tards who can't do it.

And it's like, no, you're not the only one who can sift through information.

And some people don't operate, but do not make their decisions from information based on the analysis of the information.

They base it on how the information makes them feel.

And I don't think that those people are necessarily, one is necessarily more right than the other sometimes.

Yeah.

And it's hard to kind of like just tune it all out.

I tried to.

I like there was years I didn't check at mentions on Twitter.

Like I just don't,

I don't give a fuck what everybody's talking about.

What's this?

What does he say about that?

Who gives a shit?

I don't have time to.

Yeah, I don't, I really don't.

And I don't care.

Yeah.

It's not interesting to me.

Yeah.

Like, you know, if it's a friend and I'm talking to him, sure.

But do I care who other people vote for?

Like, it is of no relevance to me whatsoever.

I don't know how people,

and like if you say something good about Trump, like just policies he has that I very much disagree with, but like you say anything good about him, like, he's a, how could you?

It's like, shut up.

Right.

Take your little identity hat off.

Just be a person.

Have a conversation.

When you think about this stuff, like in D.C., they just had where they want to clean up some of these cities and they're using the National Guard, which I've always thought is like, you know, police are in this tough space where everybody's filming them and it's like, it feels like they need more support somehow.

A lot of cities have become overrun with crime.

Trump's use of National Guard in Los Angeles was illegal, judge rules.

Yeah, I know Brandon Johnson in Chicago is not for it.

He's the worst mayor in the country.

Is he?

Awful.

Chicago's mayor pushes back as Trump administration readies immigration crackdown.

Let's see what they say.

Chicago's mayor is limited how much his city's police department can cooperate with federal immigration agents in response to threats from the Trump administration to ramp up immigration enforcement operations in the city.

So it's just about immigration.

And like they did, I don't know.

They didn't want National Guard helping with immigration.

Like they didn't want to help National Guard with immigration or troops.

But if they're just doing it to control crime, it's like crime is a mess.

I agree.

As long as they're not interfering with people's comings and goings, if they're just patrolling the streets and giving the police some assistance.

You know, most of the people who are against these policies, a lot of them don't live in those neighborhoods.

A lot of them can leave their house without being fucking worried about being robbed by somebody selling drugs.

So I think if it keeps people safer, as long as you're not infringing on their right to do anything.

Yeah.

But, you know, I have a real thought.

Look, here's the reality.

The most important thing Trump has done is

he is honoring Kiss at the Kennedy Center.

And I'm going to tell you, there's nothing that has made me happier that any politician has ever done.

Is he really doing that?

Gene, Peter, Ace, and Paul, the original four members, are being honored at the Kennedy Center.

Nothing has made me happier than that.

I love him.

I love that he did that.

I would hug him.

I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff, man.

And I hope that some of his plans for the country and stuff are good, you know?

Like,

I hope we see a lot of the things that he, you know, kind of tried to campaign on.

And I think it's just really interesting when guys campaign and then when they get in office, I bet things are way different.

And we don't know what those things are like, you know, but I hope that he has a lot of long-term, like beneficial things for the everyday American, you know?

I bet you Obama was very disappointed.

Like, because he was like a young, not too tainted by politics guy, but like he was still a relatively young guy.

Yeah, I voted for him.

And he had all these hopes and dreams.

And then you get into it and you're like, oh, this is a, there's a lot of muck and glue and things.

I bet you that his idealism somehow got squashed a little bit when he saw how it really worked from being deep in it.

And these things that you think you're going to fix, you can't.

Yeah, what does it say here?

What effect did

Trump's crackdown on crime in Washington, D.C.

led to a significant drop in reported violent crime and property crime?

It also generated controversy, strains on the legal system, and a dramatic increase in immigration-related arrests.

Violent crime fell by about 49% compared to the same period the previous year, with overall property crimes and car theft also down by 30% to 40%.

I wonder if they're just using this as a ruse, though, for ICE and immigration.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think that there's a genuine desire in cities that have really

high crime rates to bring it down.

Please.

I think people's biggest concerns.

They want to be able to leave the house.

People care about abortion.

They care about all this, but people want to be able to leave the house and go to work without being fucking hit over the head with a pipe.

Like, you know what I mean?

There is, there is a really

basic desire

to want to get in your car without it being stolen at gunpoint.

Like these things that we take for granted so many times.

Violent crime to me, because it's such an avoidable thing.

So avoidable.

It's so avoidable.

So if he's using these forces the way he says he's using them, I have no problem with it.

And I don't want to see, look,

illegal immigrants who are housekeepers, who are just out working, who are whatever they're doing, like they're out building houses.

They're out.

I have no problem.

Contributing, being

some great members of America.

They're people who just want a better life.

Like those people I don't want to see kicked out.

I know they're here illegally, but I still have empathy for someone doing that.

But as soon as you commit crimes and like you commit a violent, a felony or even an assault, out.

Yeah.

I mean, that's it.

There should be no second chance.

I mean, if you're you're lucky enough to be here, don't commit violent crimes.

I mean, I don't think that's crazy.

Yeah.

And especially if as a regular citizen here, if you commit a violent crime that you're held to a certain standard, you know.

Yeah, you're going to jail.

Yeah.

You're not being released immediately.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of holes.

It's tough.

I don't know, man.

You know, when we just try our best and you try your best just to show up for yourself every day and your new wife.

Yeah, and

not be a bad boy on the road.

Yeah.

Talking to her in the middle of the day.

Is that tough?

It is because, again, but it's not like there's one specific thing.

It's tough because

addiction is selfish.

And like, it's, it's about

getting high and it's about feeling that rush.

So so many times you want to do things just to get away from yourself.

Oh, yeah.

Like

I'm not happy with how I look.

I'm going to jerk off or I'm going to fucking, yeah.

Yeah.

And I do that too much.

I mean, I really do.

I mean, up and down the fucking East Coast, there are.

towels that probably should not be used by another person.

My apologies to any guest who's drying off and your back gets scraped up because the towel is too rough.

That's my bed.

It's tough times out there.

Yeah, it really is tough times.

But

it's not,

you know, what do they say?

I'm not the man I could be or should be, but I'm not the man I was.

Like, you know, my life is better now.

I'm happily married.

I mean, despite being annoyed at times at being married,

I love the fact that my wife enjoys when I joke about us on stage.

She's not sensitive about, like, you know what I mean?

I just.

Right.

You you can be free in your relationship.

Yeah, she loves it.

And we all send videos of like jerking off and stuff like that, or no.

Do people do that?

No, I mean, she sent me some nude photos and videos, but that's cool.

We live together, and like, that's the one thing when you're married that perverted stuff.

Right.

Sometimes, because you can hook up whatever you want, right?

But if I asked her for a video jerking off, she'd probably send it to me.

She has in the past.

That's nice.

Yeah, I'll ask her.

Um, Eddie Money showed me some pictures of his new wife one time on a plane.

Nude?

Pretty nude.

Whoa.

I like Eddie Money.

He's dead now, unfortunately.

Dude, he said he hit a can of huff one time so hard that one of his legs quit working.

Really?

Fuck yeah.

He was a fascinating guy.

He overdosed, survived a lot of stuff.

Was his wife look good naked?

Pretty good.

I'll show you my wife's paintings if you want to me.

She wouldn't care.

Really?

Yeah, she wouldn't care.

Oh, dude.

Maybe just do a drawing of it for me.

Okay.

All right.

You think?

All right.

Just show it.

I'll kind of go like this a little.

All right.

I won't show it on camera just because.

No, no, no, no, just show it to me.

I don't want to see all of it at once.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can't show it all on camera because she's a lady.

She wouldn't care for that.

No lady wants their penis young completely uncanny.

Oh, for sure.

Dude, I don't even want to fucking look at it.

Oh, I won't show it to you if you don't want to look at it.

No, I'm okay.

Let me see here.

Hold on.

I won't just hit you with it.

Yeah, this won't surprise you.

You don't be like.

Let me find an acceptable photo that

she would be proud of.

Okay.

No, no, she wouldn't like that.

That's a video.

I'll find one for you.

Yeah.

Take your time.

I'm going to think about something else for you to make.

All right.

You want to see?

Yeah.

Hold on.

Okay.

Yeah.

Whoa, brother.

What?

Oh, my God, Jim.

Your wife has that?

That's my lady.

That's my best gal.

Wow.

That is a

tall pussy.

She's a tall lady.

She's a tall.

She's a tall lady.

Oh, that thing's in 4-H, huh?

Yeah.

Oh, you got to spray some Roundup on that.

Yeah.

God, yeah, you got to get back home.

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes I need a break.

You know what I mean?

Your body collects.

I'll take a little break.

I'll go back home.

Bro, you could freaking scratch.

You could file your nails down that day.

Yeah.

Oh, but it's, but it's funny.

It's like, it really is.

That's the main difference in the relationship.

It's like compared to other women I've dated.

As a person, there's no difference.

Like, our life is the same as anybody's life.

Thank God she has a sense of humor.

I love that she has a sense of humor.

I love that she has.

So you have to have that.

Yeah.

But some don't.

I've dated people who would get mad if I talked about certain things.

And I've even gone out with trans girls that would be very mad at me just doing that.

Yeah, at least she has a good sense of humor, man.

If she didn't, I wouldn't have done that.

Like, I'm fucking around.

Yeah, that's crazy.

I mean, yeah, I wouldn't.

I mean, I would never even look at some guy's wiener, but it's a woman's wiener.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess it depends on people look at that differently too.

Like, there's a lot of people that are

very anti-that label being put on trans women.

But I think that, you know, if you, if you spend any time with my wife, it's just, it's not a man's brain.

And people are like, dude, just admit it.

You're gay.

We don't care.

I understand why people say that.

And I really do.

Like, I get it.

And again, I couldn't prove the point in court because

partner has a penis.

Like, there's no way around that.

Yeah.

You know, unless you have a long way to time to walk or a small ladder.

That seemed like a woman's wiener to me.

Well, yes, that's how I look at it.

I mean, but I understand why people say, just admit you're gay.

But there's a difference.

And I can't describe the difference, but I understand the difference internally.

If I was a homosexual at this age, I would tell people I don't give a fuck.

Like, if

it's not that I'm running away from saying something that people think think i should say um

you know sometimes i miss vaginas i mean i like them yeah but but hey here we are here we are and happy and happy there you go brother oh yeah that thing is a damn god that thing's a damn lunchable you got going on that yeah yeah you got to respect it

yeah yeah yeah anyone's got to respect that like if even somebody who's not into that lifestyle would go you know what round of applause like you know yeah sir yeah

um Unconceivable is on YouTube now.

And always, thanks for all the entertainment, man.

Thanks for welcoming me on your show.

Thank you.

And giving me a chance to just

get to ever even be on a radio show and make it fun and

on a podcast.

You guys were kind of in that early realm.

It was kind of a hodgepodge in there.

It was, it was, yeah.

I mean, podcasting.

I remember Mark Byron used to occasionally, when he was in town, if he needed a studio to interview someone, he would use our production studio.

Like we were there at the very, very beginning.

And good luck.

I didn't didn't see it coming.

I mean, I knew it was going to be popular and I had a radio contract, but I didn't, I wish I had jumped on it earlier.

Yeah.

But I wasn't allowed to.

I had an exclusivity contract.

But whatever.

Who gives a fuck, Jim?

Yeah.

Well, you've been, I think you've done the best job of being Jim Norton, man.

From an outsider's perspective, it's been interesting.

I think you're an inspiration for people to try and figure out how to best be themselves.

I know it's a journey for everybody.

But I think it's cool, man.

I think it's interesting.

You seem like kind of like a person that's kind of brave in the world.

Well, I appreciate that, but it really is.

And none of my friends, I haven't lost any friends over my life.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, whoever doesn't like, I wouldn't, there's no one I wouldn't cut loose.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean?

I have my friends.

I have no shame in that part of my life and who I love.

Oh, yeah.

It doesn't seem like it at all.

It's a fun life.

So I'm very lucky.

I appreciate you having me on, man.

I love what you do.

Yeah, I got to come do yours before the end of the year.

Yeah, I would love that.

I would really love that.

We'll make it happen, man.

Thanks, Bal.

Jim Norton, thank you so much.

Thank you, Theo.

Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

I must be

cornerstone.

Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found.

I can feel it in my bones.

But it's gonna take

a little bit of time.