Hasan Piker explains himself

Speaker 1 Last week we at Today Explained brought you an episode titled The Joe Rogan of the Left. The Joe Rogan of the Left was in quotations.

Speaker 1 It was mostly about a guy named Hassan Piker, who some say is the Joe Rogan of the Left. But enough about Joe.
We made an episode about Hassan because the Democrats are really courting this dude.

Speaker 1 So Hassan Piker is

Speaker 1 really the only major prominent leftist on Twitch. At least the only one who talks about politics all day.

Speaker 2 What's going on, everybody? I hope everyone's having a fantastic evening, afternoon, prenew, no matter where you're at.

Speaker 1 They want his cosign, they want his endorsement because he's young and he reaches millions of young people streaming on YouTube, TikTok, and especially Twitch. But last week, he was streaming us.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was listening on stream, and you guys were like, hey, you should come on the show if you're listening. And I was like, oops, God.

Speaker 1 You're a listener.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, yeah, I am.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Thank you for listening.
Hassan Piker coming up on the show today.

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Speaker 2 This is Today Explained.

Speaker 2 I'm Hassan Piker, also known as Hassan Abi online. I go by many names.
Hassan Lahon on Twitter, Hassan D. Piker on TikTok, but Hassanabi primarily on Twitch.
I'm live on Twitch every day from 11 a.m.

Speaker 2 Pacific time, usually around 7 p.m. to 8 p.m.
Pacific time, every single day, seven days a week, no matter where I am around the world. I try to hit that same time frame.
And

Speaker 2 yeah, I'm a political commentator.

Speaker 2 People call me many different things, radical, sometimes

Speaker 2 even a terrorism lover,

Speaker 2 just, you know, slander to,

Speaker 2 I think,

Speaker 2 designations that I would not see fit for myself, such as like activist, organizer, or even journalist, really.

Speaker 1 You are doing a lot of stuff and spending an enormous part of your day. making yourself available to people on live streams, on social media.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 like what's your sense of what what people come to you for um i think a lot of people see me as uh talk radio that's always on but with a zoomer slash millennial focus rather than

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 rather than anything else like it's just it's it's not that unique i'm not like necessarily reinventing the wheel here i think it's just like a a a guy that you can have in the background while you're doing your chores and uh you stay up to date, maybe also share in the feeling of catharsis or anger that you feel as well that is being channeled from

Speaker 2 channeled by the guy that you're getting your news from.

Speaker 1 And the guy they're getting their news from has some strong political opinions, beliefs, and he talks about them often, but not exclusively.

Speaker 1 What would you say are your politics? How would you describe them?

Speaker 2 I mean, I call myself a leftist, definitely an anti-imperialist.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 I am, I mean, I'm anti-war. I believe that we should not spend so much money on 800 military bases overseas and constantly bombing some of the poorest countries on the planet.

Speaker 2 And we should instead spend it on infrastructure, jobs programs, and expansion of the welfare state with the ultimate goal of

Speaker 2 creating a new way of organizing our economy and our society in general,

Speaker 2 an evolution from the existing form that is more egalitarian and has more benefits for as many people as possible. Because I think we're the wealthiest country on the planet.

Speaker 2 We are in the post-abundance universe. And I don't mean that in an Esler Klein way.
I mean like we literally have a surplus of food supply, for example.

Speaker 2 Like 10 million people should not be dying due to famine-related famine-related diseases around the globe at this point.

Speaker 2 It's a matter of supply chains. Like it's a matter of not wanting to feed people.

Speaker 1 But saying that right now, saying that in 2025, when the federal government, the Trump administration right now, is cutting back aid to some of the poorest people on earth.

Speaker 1 That's like inherently a left-right question. Do you consider yourself as a leftist a Democrat?

Speaker 2 No, I don't consider myself a Democrat. I think

Speaker 2 just like Bernie Sanders says, he finds himself coxing with the Democrats quite frequently because that's the only game in town. But I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a Democrat.

Speaker 2 I mean, it is a duopoly.

Speaker 2 They're the only game in town. They're the only counterbalance towards the growing rightward shift in this country.

Speaker 2 And I oftentimes find myself at odds with the Democrats because I feel that they also make make way for this growing rightward shift in this country rather than oppose it.

Speaker 2 Whether it be under the Trump administration, as we've seen so far, with Chuck Schumer refusing to fight back against

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 quote-unquote clean continued resolution bill.

Speaker 2 and maybe even pushing for a government shutdown in an effort to use the only minority power, minority party power position that they have.

Speaker 2 Or whether it be completely caving in, capitulating to right-wing framing when the Democrats were in charge when it came down to accelerating America's foreign policy, like the continuation of the Abraham Accords from the Trump administration,

Speaker 2 refusing to go back to the table with Iran, which was Obama's signature foreign policy accomplishment that Biden

Speaker 2 did not revert back to when he came into power, or most significantly, I think, the

Speaker 2 rhetoric around immigration and immigrant crime, a concept that is entirely made up. This isn't to say that immigrants are not, you know, immigrants are never doing any crimes.

Speaker 2 Of course, everyone does crime.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 when you look at the data, immigrants are responsible for a far smaller share, both in per capita and also in totality of crime than natural-born U.S. citizens are.

Speaker 2 So the notion that like undocumented migrants are doing tens of thousands of murders a year in the way that Trump has suggested is ridiculous. It's just completely made up.

Speaker 2 And the fact that the Democrats did not actually actively combat this very dangerous, very right-wing, very scary narrative that was built around lying was very frustrating for someone like myself.

Speaker 1 You

Speaker 1 make sense in that. tent, which is, as you've heard a million times, a very big tent with Dick Cheney all the way to AOC all the way to you.

Speaker 1 Do you think that tent has grown too big and that might be part of the problem the party's having right now?

Speaker 2 No, I think that

Speaker 2 there's a difference between like growing your tent

Speaker 2 and then

Speaker 2 I guess like what kind of

Speaker 2 like what kind of message you're putting out.

Speaker 2 Because the Democrats didn't really need to do too much to get Liz Cheney on board because they were basically regurgitating neocon policies in general, right?

Speaker 2 Both Biden and also Kamala Harris with her interest in continuing

Speaker 2 the Biden agenda. So they didn't, like, you don't really need to court Dick Cheney in that regard.
He just came on board because it makes sense.

Speaker 2 You're following, you know, you're following his dreams and his agenda to begin with, especially in terms of foreign policy.

Speaker 2 What I want is for the Democrats to actually expand its tent to

Speaker 2 the American working class. I don't care about Dick Cheney.
Dick Cheney can say he wants to vote for the Democratic Party. The Democrats should probably say, yeah, we don't care.
Fuck you.

Speaker 2 You're a terrorist. You're a war criminal.
Your hands are bloody.

Speaker 2 Of course, they're not going to say that.

Speaker 2 Actually, Dick Cheney is the one person that you could probably say that about. And like most people would be like, yeah, that's fine.
Like

Speaker 2 even, you might not even be able to get away with that with like GW, but you could get away with that with Dick Cheney. Like, he is a he is a monster and also deeply, deeply disliked.

Speaker 2 Like, there is no constituency for this man, just like there's no constituency for Liz Cheney. Like, the, the,

Speaker 2 they just tried to make it happen. They tried to make Fetch happen with Liz Cheney so hard when they were just like, yeah, no, see, you know,

Speaker 2 the country's over, party. That's what we're doing.
You know, me and Liz Cheney hand in hand. And it just like doesn't make any sense because no one is a Liz Cheney head.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like even the MSNBC watchers are like, I guess this is good because someone else might like it. That's always the marketing for the Democrats.
Someone else is going to like this. I promise.

Speaker 1 I asked Tim Walls how many votes he thought Liz Cheney won the Democrats or won Kamala Harris. And he dodged the question.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I wish Tim was a little bit more of a fighter.

Speaker 2 That's the problem with

Speaker 2 a lot of these Democrats who I think are like much

Speaker 2 better politicians in general than the ones that get highlighted. The fighters are so technocratic and so invested in this third-way neoliberalism agenda.
Like they're zealots.

Speaker 2 But then the actual good like left populist or left populist adjacent Democratic Party politicians are unfortunately too soft. Like Bernie.
Bernie is way too soft. I love him.

Speaker 2 I have so much respect for him. But this was my criticism of him in both 2016 and 2020.

Speaker 2 It's just like he was way too soft he loved well in 2020 he also loves joe biden personally that's that was another issue but soft how like like how do you how do you mean you think his policies aren't hard no no no no

Speaker 2 that that more his policies i mean yeah his policies are great i think for the time they are you know fairly normal demands that every american would agree to uh it's just that you know the entire media apparatus and i i would say that the uh the party apparatus considers it to to be like a Maoist third worldist position or something.

Speaker 2 When they're like, hey, can we get like social democracy Nordic style? And they're like, you, you want to kill every landlord, I think.

Speaker 2 Like, it's insane the way they treat the most basic stuff that every other competent OECD nation offers unconditionally to all of all of their citizens. But

Speaker 2 no, I mean, he needs to be more of a fighter.

Speaker 2 He needs to be more adversarial with the media. He needs to be more adversarial with

Speaker 2 with with other establishment democrats in a way that's not dissimilar to

Speaker 1 in a way that's not dissimilar to Donald Trump you have a lot of young people 18 to 35

Speaker 1 watching you streaming you engaging with you

Speaker 1 what do you think their politics are

Speaker 2 I mean it's it depends it's it's a broad variety but would say that a lot of young people are

Speaker 2 devoid of hope.

Speaker 2 They

Speaker 2 recognize that they probably will never retire, that they will never be able to own a home, and that

Speaker 2 most of their salary, if they're lucky enough to get a job that they hate, regardless, is going to go back to their rent.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 these are the issues that are, I think, creating incredible amounts of pressure

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 pain in the minds of a lot of young people in this country. They just don't feel hopeful.
And I understand it. I mean, how could you?

Speaker 2 How could you feel hopeful when looking around at your prospects and you're like, this shit looks dire?

Speaker 1 And what do you say to them?

Speaker 2 I tell them to not feel,

Speaker 2 not cave to nihilism and to maintain revolutionary optimism and to remind themselves that there are things that are in their control, self-improvement being one of those things,

Speaker 2 and that they should

Speaker 2 remember that their cause is just and their demands are perfectly rational.

Speaker 2 and that they should continue trying to marginally improve both their personal standing, but also organize in their communities and unionize in their workplaces

Speaker 2 so that

Speaker 2 they can see some immediate benefits to that through collective bargaining.

Speaker 1 Hassan will return to tell us more about self-improvement in a minute on Today Explained.

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Speaker 1 Today, Explain is back with Hassan Piker. If you've never seen him, he is jacked.

Speaker 1 And we don't usually ask our guests about their appearance, but we kind of felt like we had to with Hassan because it's a big part of his persona. So here we go.
You're like a bigger dude.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I'm like a skinny dude.

Speaker 1 Do you like, do you look at me and be like, why is this guy self-improving more? Why hasn't he fully actualized himself?

Speaker 2 No, not at all.

Speaker 2 I mean, first of all, self-improvement doesn't mean like reaching a final stage or anything. It means like improving yourself

Speaker 2 in both invisible and visible ways and bettering yourself from where you were the day prior. It has nothing to do with like where you have gotten to.
I mean, it's great.

Speaker 2 It's definitely fantastic for your confidence if you do improve yourself and then you start seeing those benefits. But,

Speaker 2 you know, it has nothing to do with like the way you look right now. There's nothing wrong with the way you look.
You look great.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much. You're very handsome.
You look great too. You're very handsome as well.
What's your protein intake? Is there a lot of protein going on?

Speaker 2 Yes. I consume about 200 and at a minimum, 220 grams of protein every day.

Speaker 1 Amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's all right. I eat a lot of chicken.
I love chicken, so it's just fine. Just straight white chicken breasts every day.

Speaker 1 How much do you feel like being kind of yoked is like part

Speaker 1 your draw and your persona?

Speaker 2 I think it

Speaker 2 I think initially in leftist circles is a it's a negative.

Speaker 2 People look at me and immediately assume that I am a right-wing dude. I mean at this point it's like hard to say that because obviously most people know what my politics are.

Speaker 2 But if you don't know who I am from afar, you think like, oh, that's like an alpha bro

Speaker 2 potentially right-wing kind of guy.

Speaker 1 What is your read on why this male optimization getting, you know, really beefed up has like a left-right divide. And what is that divide about?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think

Speaker 2 there's, there's a bunch of different reasons for it.

Speaker 2 But I mean, I think like a lot of these guys, they don't think too hard about politics and then they find themselves trapped in this right-wing bubble. and then

Speaker 2 I think that they they just like associate that with

Speaker 2 they associate like self-improvement and self-help with that in general it's not self-help inherently is not like a

Speaker 2 like a leftist or a right-wing thing I don't think

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 but it does seem like a lot of the content creators that are promoting that and presenting themselves as that are definitely uh

Speaker 2 at the very least right-wing but i i think

Speaker 2 part of it is because

Speaker 2 that's just the domineering attitude in general. If you don't really think about things too much,

Speaker 2 you just you kind of find yourself susceptible to social conditioning. And that does have a right-wing slant, you know, the whole common sense narrative.
It's like, oh, this is just common sense.

Speaker 2 I don't understand. Two genders, common sense.
Like

Speaker 2 you didn't put a lot of thought into it. That's just what you learned your entire life.
So of course, like, you know, you, you kind of slot yourself into the right wing in that regard.

Speaker 2 I guess the other reason is because self-improvement can turn into hyper individualism very quickly, which is also another incredibly American attitude in general. But like

Speaker 2 that's that's what it is. That's those are the two main factors, I think.

Speaker 1 And you try to couple self-improvement with helping others, which feels really critical in this moment where a lot of people feel lost, but that leads to them becoming more inward, introverted, even angry.

Speaker 1 How do you feel like you're faring in that battle right now to not just improve yourself inside and out, but to be more considerate of those around you?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I mean, I'm just, I'm a stubborn dude.
And I also, I'm not like, you know, doing deliberate gym content specifically because like I want to penetrate like the alphabro fitness space.

Speaker 2 It's just like something that I have always liked to do organically. And,

Speaker 2 you know, the content creators that I watch from that space are people that I end up collaborating with or have at least like some.

Speaker 2 some mutual interests with like mutual shared interests with. So that's what it is.
It's not, it's not me just being like, ooh, if I work out and like present myself as this guy, then you know

Speaker 2 more alpha bros will listen to me.

Speaker 2 Because a lot of people, a lot of people will still, especially something I've seen online is that like people would rather hear your output and then make up their minds rather than like look at you or genuinely understand whether you care about certain things or not.

Speaker 2 Like they, there's this phenomenon online where like Ben Shapiro says the masculine things, so he's more masculine than someone like myself. I'm soy.

Speaker 2 I'm, I'm gay, I'm lame, because I, I think you shouldn't be mean to trans people.

Speaker 2 Ben, on the other hand, is mean to trans people, and that means you're alpha. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's like, five foot,

Speaker 2 you know?

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 the reason why the right is so successful at capturing the attention of young men in particular is because they are at the

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 2 they're they're

Speaker 2 they're taking a lot of the the worst aspects of the hopelessness that uh i was just talking about that everyone in in the next generation is is experiencing and

Speaker 2 right-wing commentary is

Speaker 2 is like a warm blanket that you can surround yourself with that says you're right to be angry and you should be angry at vulnerable populations.

Speaker 2 You should be angry at people who have no power over you and then if you dominate them a little bit then that gives you a little bit of power right it's the it reminds me of the was it the lbj quote

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 1 you know telling the the lowest white man that he is higher than than any black man If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket.

Speaker 2 Hell.

Speaker 1 Give him somebody to look down on and he'll empty his pockets pockets for you.

Speaker 2 I mean, we see different versions of that even today, more evolved versions of that with like DEI. People will be like, Bill Burr's wife is a DEI wife.
And I'm like, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 DEI wife?

Speaker 2 DEI wife.

Speaker 2 Is it because she's a black woman? Is that why you're saying DEI wife? Yeah.

Speaker 1 He seems to really love her. But I think what you're getting at here is

Speaker 1 the vision that the right is selling to young men is very compelling because it doesn't necessarily involve growth or progress.

Speaker 1 It just affirms what they already believe or maybe what their fathers and their fathers before them believed.

Speaker 1 But you seem to do something special, which is you create an alternate vision for young men, for young people.

Speaker 1 And it bummed me out a little bit when you said the vibe that you get from most young people is that they're losing hope because that's a shitty place to be when you're young.

Speaker 1 What keeps you hopeful?

Speaker 2 The one area of hope that I have right now is the momentum that I've seen from AOC and Bernie Sanders,

Speaker 2 who are going out and speaking in front of tens of thousands of people, people that may have not even voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries, right? Like people.

Speaker 2 from all different walks of life that are, you know, both Democrats and maybe even some not Democrats coming together and being like, yeah, everything is messed up. We need to do something about it.

Speaker 2 So there's definitely a lot of interest, I think, right now

Speaker 2 amongst the American working class to

Speaker 2 change things.

Speaker 2 Some people have associated that change with Donald Trump. I find that kind of change to be worse because I think Donald Trump is like further breaking the system

Speaker 2 that was broken previously, prior to this.

Speaker 2 But the fact that some people recognize that there must be a different

Speaker 2 there must be a different mechanism for change and they find Bernie to be a vehicle for that is

Speaker 2 somewhat positive. But it entirely depends on where it goes from here.
Does the Democratic Party turn around and go, okay, we got to do that.

Speaker 2 Enough with this, you know, third-way neoliberalism, enough with the

Speaker 2 zealotry that we've demonstrated uh constantly talking about true true market centrism hasn't been tried you know true neoliberalism hasn't been tried yet it will it will happen one day we will we will unleash the markets and we will free the people it will be amazing uh true neoliberalism cannot fail it can only be failed like this kind of attitude is is ridiculous and i think It's academic, it's smug, it's elitist, and it's wrong.

Speaker 2 It's demonstrably wrong. and i think people don't want to hear it anymore so i hope the democratic party recognizes that and then uh more and more people

Speaker 2 run for office and say no i don't want corporate donations i'm done with the billionaires and millionaires i'm done with you i'm done with the rest of the democratic party i'm gonna be a democrat but i'm done with the democratic party that's what

Speaker 2 That's what Republicans did over the course of many, many years as well. And

Speaker 2 they

Speaker 2 feared their base. They did not worry about the potential political repercussions of pushing for incredibly unfavorable and unpopular policies.
And look where they're at now.

Speaker 2 They got rewarded consistently time and time again for at least doing something. Like that's the attitude that many Americans have.
They're just like, yeah,

Speaker 2 everything is messed up. At least this guy wants to, you know,

Speaker 2 break the system. And I don't really like the system anyway.
I don't like the institutions anyway. What have they done for me? So let's test this out.

Speaker 1 Hassan Piker, I know you're a very busy man. I know you got like eight hours of streaming right ahead of you.
Thank you for sitting down with us before you got started. Yeah, it's no problem.

Speaker 2 I love yapping. So

Speaker 1 it's all I do. I could tell.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 All right. Have a good day.

Speaker 1 All the best to you. Take care.

Speaker 1 Hassan Piker, Hassan the Hun on Twitter. Hassan D.
Piker on TikTok. Hasanabi on Twitch and YouTube.
Not a difficult person to find online. Producer Milos made the show today.

Speaker 1 Miles Bryan is his government name. Laura Bullard coasted.
Andre Kristens, Doctor, and Patrick Boyd mixed. Amina Al-Sadi edited with a little help from Miranda Kennedy.

Speaker 1 I'm Miranda Kennedy, and this is Today Explain.

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