James Hollingshead: Real Numbers of A Real Olympian Bodybuilder

James Hollingshed, Open Bodybuilding Olympian, three-time IFBB Pro Champion, pro podcaster in the IFBB EMA, where he started a new series with Justin Shire called The Shire in the Shed and can be often seen on Bodybuilding and Bolics on the real bodybuilding podcast.

Because we are involving ourselves in a higher risk environment, we have to be even more attuned to what we're doing with our bodies in order to try to prevent potential catastrophe.

I have little supplements called orb like vitamin D3, K2, human, and AC.

I live on those and I swear by them alongside good nutrition.

Because at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with trying to create more knowledge and intelligence within yourself.

Probably too much.

But if I didn't have that much and if I didn't have that aggression and assertive nature to want to be a champion, which was probably coincided with taking anabotics as a young person because it interferes with your cognitive portrayal of things, you become a bit animalistic.

And maybe that fire that it created and that temperament that it created was why I managed to do well.

Initially, I wasn't trying to be a bodybuilder.

I was in high school and I think I was watching Dragon Ball Z.

like most people.

Oh my god, that's my story.

My missus came off the pill within one month she was pregnant.

Damn.

I was mid-cycle, I was taking mastarone and testosterone.

Overconsumption of anything is the problem, eh?

You just don't want to go past the point of where you're yielding benefit.

It's just common sense.

When I did a low trend, I got more out of it than when I tried to do high.

Cortisol needs to be low.

You need to be able to sleep at night and you have to be rested.

Otherwise, everything else is just bullshit.

There is a sweet spot for everybody.

That's why lower bodies look fresher.

Yeah, I've done higher.

Of course, I've done up to like a day and it was awful.

So I was like, shit, I wouldn't do that again.

The fact that he passed away and I felt so sad is what gave me an increased amount of drive and energy to see the job done.

It's crazy, but they always live within us.

Yeah, try not to forget.

It's easy to let the days go by, but I miss you.

And that's just only what someone like yourself or I've done and many others that we know that have reached a certain level of success, whether it's in bodybuilding or not.

They've just gone, you know what, I'm fed up.

I'm fed up of not being where I want to be, and I'm going to use the energy that's been around me and I'm going to turn it into something positive and I'm going to make something of myself.

I am in a position of at least enough authority to say less gear is okay, don't worry.

I'm not saying I can tell you have to be Mr.

Olympia, but I'm telling you I can be competitive as a pro and get to the Olympia stage.

Just don't be an idiot.

Niall, my man.

How you doing, man?

What's up, brother?

How are you doing, man?

I'm good.

I'm good.

Yourself?

Good, good.

Sorry, I caught you off guard and I'm late.

I tend to have this tendency of always being late.

No, bro, don't worry.

I'm just putting something.

I'm kind of done for the day, so it's nice.

I'm actually in Norway, so I've got the time wrong myself anyway.

So I'm an hour.

So it said half seven, but it's actually half eight because I'm an hour ahead of what I thought.

oh, no,

yeah, because I forget that he's got an hour, but it's fine, it's fine, it's all good.

Oh, god, dude,

I've got one wheel to go, nice chilled evening after this, so it's all good.

Okay, okay, what time do you normally sleep?

Not till about midnight, to be fair, but I don't get up till like nine, if I'm honest, because nine here is eight back home.

So I'll get, I'd probably go to bed at 11 and wake up at eight.

Okay, okay,

all right.

Well, hopefully, I give you enough time to wind down and shit.

Yeah, man, yeah, it's all good, it's all good.

How do you like Norway, by the way?

Funny,

yeah.

Mate, every day I'm like, I fall in love with this place more and more.

It's just the best.

Yeah,

what about it exactly?

You just need to walk around here and head out of the city and look at the landscape and the architecture and the piece.

It's just a vibe.

It's like when you start approaching, look, I'm 36 years old.

I'm approaching an age where everything's about your environment.

And the environment here is just like, wow, that's like the second stage of life environment.

It's just like this is where everything before this has been to build up to this point.

Okay, that's cool.

Yeah, man.

I can't explain it unless you like, you have to come and visit, bro.

No, no, I mean, to be honest, it kind of gives me chills because I feel like I'm in this like transition of life where I'm trying to figure out where the second stage of my life is.

And if I decide to continue to stay with my partner, it's almost like not even a choice that I have to move to Kentucky from LA, from California, which is obviously the biggest change, right?

Moving forward.

I think change is so good at a certain point.

Yeah.

Man, yeah, I'd just like to say, dude, I'm like looking outside now and there's just forests.

That's awesome.

It's just, it's just wild, bro.

Yeah.

To be honest, I was actually in Norway when I was like seven years old.

I think maybe seven, eight or nine.

Good.

So you've done it.

So you can come and fill it again.

Yeah.

I hardly remember, but I feel like I remember the McDonald's.

I swear to God, McDonald's was like 20 bucks or something, if I'm thinking of the right place.

it's expensive, but you make money.

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

You can work in a supermarket and get paid like 30 quid an hour.

Nice.

Holy crap.

It's like it's no problem at all, bruv.

Honestly.

Well, I feel like a lot of the audience probably already knows quite a lot about you and a lot of your, you know, your background and everything.

Of course, man.

I've heard a little bit about it as well myself, but I was hoping to just kind of ask.

So,

because I don't think I've ever been able to hear the chance to hear your kind of entire story in one spiel.

Man, I'm up for whatever.

You just ask wherever and I'll i'll fire away and if you're not bored you're not bored your ears

i'm sure you won't yeah man so if i was um

i guess if if i was on a if i was a fly on the wall what would be like the first memory that you can possibly think of where you were just like i think this is what i want to do like i think i want to start bodybuilding

oh bodybuilding is a funny one that started from actually

Initially, I wasn't trying to be a bodybuilder.

I was in high school and I think I was watching Draco Ball Z like most people.

And oh my god, that's my story.

Dude, it's the same story, bro.

Literally, I watched Goku turn Super Saiyan for the first time.

Oh my God.

And I was like, that's got to be me.

I can turn Super Saiyan.

But it was obviously, you know, the bodybuilding is like the icing on the cake for what I was trying to find.

Because I was,

honestly, like when I was really young, I lived in a household without a father.

So therefore, it was like there was this kind of gap

for masculinity in the house.

And I was young.

So my thoughts on masculinity were obviously physical.

And obviously at that age, you're very influential.

You're going for a lot of change.

And therefore, I felt that I needed something to make me more strong for my mum.

And that was the gym.

And obviously, I got into the gym, but I had no intentions of being an actual bodybuilder as such.

I just wanted to be strong and I enjoyed training.

It evolved into bodybuilding via friends.

I had a friend called Luke who I watched compete at a show as a junior bodybuilder back in like 2004 or five.

Do you mean like Luke Sinder?

No, this is another friend preferred.

Yeah, this is the guy who actually got me into bodybuilding.

And

you know, like when you're that age, you're very influenced by the people around you, especially me.

I was like double influenced by male, older males because I didn't have the dad around.

So when I saw someone who was appealing to me and had like something about them, I got pretty fixated.

So I got really fixated on my friend Luke and I thought he's the best thing since sliced bread.

And watching him compete, it kind of like made me think you know what i should maybe give this a go um but it evolved very it wasn't like a one day oh i want to be a bodybuilder it evolved slowly man it was it was very thought through it was very what do i want to do with my life where do i want to be do i want to work for people or do i want to be my own master and bodybuilding for me was a way to be my own master so therefore i always had this intention of like becoming a bodybuilder and being on a contract and paid and not having to answer to like corporates and basically make a living but on my own terms and be unable to live the days that i want to do where i get up i eat the food i do the training i knew it was going to be hard i knew it was going to be disciplined but i would rather that freedom and that control than feel like i can't be something unique because at the time bodybuilding wasn't even that popular really like now it's obviously a lot more popular right

yeah when when you were a bodybuilder in the early 2000s honestly you're one of very few there was probably two people that compete in the gym per year So you felt exceptional and you felt very different and you felt called for it.

You were in like this exclusive club.

and uh, that exclusivity, that kind of feeling of being different than everybody else, was the biggest lure for me.

It's like Arnold used to say, the worst thing you have to be is the same as everyone else.

And back when Arnold was a bodybuilder, that was kind of the same, like there was a collective, this cult, but outside of that, there wasn't many.

So, that attraction for me was definitely the being different, walking down the road, and not living by the same means as everybody around me, and being like, you know what, I'm different than you.

And that's when bodybuilding really took hold of me.

And

yeah, so that's that.

It was more, I suppose.

I was like 16 years old when I really, I started the gym when I was 14.

But I was like 16 when I was like, you know what, I'm going to compete.

And then it was when I was 18 that I managed to compete for the first time.

Oh, that's awesome.

So it was like a two-year transition, one year of like, you know, seeing if I had what it takes.

And then I got in pretty good shape at the age of 17.

And then I, you know, I actually made the jump to the dark side at 17.

I was too young, but I didn't have any like guidance.

So, yeah, I kind of was one of them because there was no guidance back then.

So I was like, okay, I'm 17 years old.

If you want to be a bodybuilder, you have to do this and that.

And I made that jump.

And then by 18, I was on stage and

qualifying for the British Championships.

So

people were bodybuilder first time around.

Did you start off skinny or were you a little bit more in like the heavier side?

I was a skinny side.

I didn't eat.

I grew up in quite a, I wouldn't say like a poor household, but single parent.

Food was pretty limited, dude.

Like I went to school, I didn't even have food.

So

one thing I didn't get lunch at school, I went a whole day without eating.

Maybe I was lucky if I got a packet of crisps.

I was on,

I didn't eat growing up.

I literally was underfed, undernourished.

It's not any fault of anyone.

It's just that it was hard to be fed because my mum simply couldn't afford to give me packed lunch.

I was the kid who I never had packed lunch, but that way I was that guy.

And then luckily at school, there was a friend of mine whose mum worked in the cafeteria.

And by the time I was in high school, she knew and noticed I wasn't really getting food.

So every now and then, she would try and slip me some like spaghetti and stuff like that.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it didn't happen often, but I was really appreciative when she did.

So I was going whole days without eating, dude.

So I think maybe that's why I'm quite good with the bodybuilding because I am able to go without eating if I have to in order to get in shape because I kind of grew up not eating.

It wasn't until I started working on a weekend

when I was like literally 16 years old, started doing some upholstery with a gentleman from the same street that I lived on.

Just for like 20 pounds for the day.

Like I'd be his like little side sidekick at 16 years old.

And that 20 pound would go on like tuna, eggs and oats.

And then I would start eating once or twice a day.

That was it.

That was the beginning.

That was where I started to understand putting food in and knowing that you can't build tissue, you can't build muscle without some sort of

material.

And then that's when I really appreciate nutrition because of that, because I realized that you can't just magic something out of thin air.

So nutrition has always been a really huge part of my life.

I really enjoy it.

And

yeah, so nutrition made me actually love bodybuilding more because I knew it was such a big part of it.

So it's all kind of interconnected.

There's a lot of things that are interesting about bodybuilding, though.

The weightlifting is cool, but like the nutritional standpoint, being in control, putting things in your body, looking after your health.

That shit gets more and more interesting every year.

I love it, man.

And I've got friends that are in this industry that are so intelligent with that stuff.

Like we've all watched people like John Meadows back in the day and Chris Tuttles and the Evan Senapanese and really just take a note of some of these things that they've highlighted about nutrition and how positive effects it has on your body.

So, you know, and it's not even just from a bodybuilding standpoint, it's from a longevity standpoint because we're all going to be alive for as long as we can.

So even after our bodybuilding careers, nutrition is still going to have such a prominent role still, but it'll be slightly altered.

And it will actually be even more interesting because what we're trying to obtain from our nutrition is probably going to be even more longevity and even more health benefits.

So it's quite interesting to know that you're always going to have an interesting nutritional plan if you're actually someone who cares about your body.

And I love love that because i love the diversity in nutrition you know especially from like vegetables and uh you know prebiotic food you know you've got your like sauerkrauts you've got your conkifa um and then you've got like live cultures and yogurt and there's just so many things that are really beneficial then your fats and your you know avocados and your salmon and omega-3s and i don't know it's just really nice and it's just a really interesting subject that's quite light-hearted and nice and it applies to everybody i find myself often talking to like my step parents, Yannica's parents, about nutrition and trying to give them some advice because they're obviously of an older age, they're like in their 60s now on how to like kind of eat.

Not trying to tell them how, but like giving them suggestions on like healthy fats and stuff good for their cholesterol at that age

to avoid sugars that are not necessary unless it's like during real active time.

So I don't know.

Nutrition is just one of the things you can go in a room and you can have a good conversation about, isn't it?

No, yeah, 100%.

I mean, one of the things that's

I'm with you on all that, except for the veggies, I fucking still hate the veggies.

Oh, I used to hate them, but

what I realized is that I think with vegetables, the thing is you have to find the the correct vegetables for you, but you also have to not overconsume in one sitting.

You have to find out,

bro.

Smaller portions to accompany your meals.

I'm with,

I believe you were with Patrick before as well, right?

Yes.

He's a great guy.

Right.

So

he could fucking tell my second to last check-ins.

He was like, is this on an empty stomach?

And I'm like,

oh, fuck.

I got to tell him.

I fucking smashed like

a pound of Brussels sprouts and carrots the previous night because I was so fucking hungry.

Yeah, I think you got a gas from there.

The cruficerous vegetables that, you know, like broccoli is really nice, but it can cause a little bit of like bloat and gas.

Yeah.

But hey, it does taste like that.

I was farting the entire night, bro.

It was putrid.

Patrick's got a good eye, man.

He's never going to let me sleep.

It's fucking crazy.

But no, like, I'm the same way as you, where, like, I've noticed that being in this field now as a bodybuilder, like, you know, from the outside, people are like, oh, bodybuilding's not healthy.

Bodybuilding's not healthy.

Well, of course, yeah, steroids are not healthy.

That's 100% true.

But like, it's so cool that like all my friends, my family friends, my partners, parents, and their aunts and uncles, they come to me for nutrition advice, for health advice, for longevity advice, because these are the things that we need to capitalize on and become experts on, honestly, just for the sake of risk mitigation.

More so it's risk management, isn't it?

Because of what we do, you know, because we are involving ourselves in a higher risk environment.

We have to be even more attuned to what we're doing with our bodies in order to try to prevent potential, you know, catastrophe.

You know, I have supplements galaw, like vitamin D3, K2, Curcumin, NAC, you know, like I live on those and I swear by them alongside, you know, good nutrition.

So that's, I like it because at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with trying to create more knowledge and intelligence within yourself.

I think that's a really good way to live, you know, whatever the subject matter may be, as long as you're seeking knowledge and seeking some sort of wisdom and you can pass it on to others, then it's very beneficial because then you're not only helping yourself, you're helping other people at the same time.

Yeah.

So it's really good.

It's also so fun to like reflect back on like what we used to do.

Like when I started,

bro, when I started bodybuilding, I was literally just eating straight, um, I just no carbs, like little fat, like just straight chicken, yeah, straight steak, just meat the entire fucking day.

Yeah,

I would like fast for 16 hours and then smash the protein afterwards.

I would think that like the builders bars, the builders' protein bars were like this magic secret steroid that would just get you extra jacked.

It's gonna make you extra jacked.

My, my thing was uh, we had CMP in England, which was Gorian Yates approved it was like uh a good company and i used to smash those bars they were chewy as hell but i used to go to the gym and buy a few and just eat those and they were like eating like bricks um and they had a supplement line and they had something called pro-mass and i used to drink that and it was like drinking cement um i'd even i'd even mix that in a bowl of tuna like with mayonnaise like and it's so i was i'd have protein powder mayonnaise tuna because obviously when you first start you just like you just said that you just think protein yeah you don't think about any other macronutrient You're like, okay, I just need a shed load of protein because protein is what builds muscle.

And so I was just chasing protein all the time, whether it was, you know, stinky eggs or tuna tins because back in the day, tuna was a lot cheaper than it is now as soon as you get away with it.

But I probably had mercury poisoning back then.

I just didn't realize the amount of tuna tins I was eating.

And protein and powder in me and ears is wild.

Mate, I was doing some bad concoctions, I tell you.

But luckily, I've got past it now.

But you have to walk into the, you know, you have to walk into the shit to get out of the shit and figure out what's, what's, you know, the good things.

So, right.

But yeah.

I feel like a lot of us have been in this place as well.

And I definitely have too.

So I'm very curious.

But you said at 17 is when you gave up your natty card, but obviously you didn't know what you were doing.

Like what exactly did that look like?

Bro, literally, I think I jumped on some Debol.

Like I was literally at a gym.

There's a lot of people around you that are kind of like

selling gear because it's easy money for them.

They'll sell you 100 tabs of D-ball from a pack of like 500 for like five times the markup because

you're an easy target.

So I was probably sold the gear because I'm an easy target.

It wasn't to benefit me and help me.

It's just that I was

vulnerable.

I was like, I was in a gym.

I was like, I want to be a bodybuilder.

So it's easy for someone who's older to go, I'll sell you 100 Dynabol tablets and they're probably five milligram each and I'll charge you 100 quid.

So that's how I kind of first started.

And I think there was some good results, but I was already pretty pretty attuned to training and regime by then.

I used to over-train, obviously, because I was, I don't, it's hard to overtrain, but obviously, I was like, you said to you, I was, I was undereating a lot.

So, therefore, any level of training for me was kind of probably hard to recover from.

No, underneath.

And I stayed, and I stayed slim for a long time because of it.

Even like, even in my amateur days as a bodybuilder, I never really started to put on much mass until I actually already won my pro card.

Because I was the guy to get conditioned, but I didn't really get size because I think I always underate.

So i um

i can reflect on that because uh there was a period of like three to four years where i was almost purposely under eating just so i could stay shredded um a lot of this was so i could finally make money on content because i kind of quit my job and i wasn't making any money anywhere and i just wanted to bodybuild so i was like the only way you can do it these days on content is just to be shredded so people yeah like you're

so you get that response because it's it's two things you're either as strong as hell and you pop an incredible lift or you look crazy good pilled and people if you're both for those, then you're gonna kill it.

And that it gets the you know, it gets the reels, it gets the uh the viewership, and then it gets the traffic.

Um, so being in shape is very beneficial.

And people ask me now, like, why are you getting in shape?

It's like, I don't really know, if I'm honest, I don't know, maybe it'll come to something, but for me, it's because I've got a good sponsor with a great company, and it doesn't hurt me to like practice my

uh field.

You know, bodybuilding is my field, so getting in shape at least once or twice a year is something I'll do regardless, and it sets me up for a really good offseason, also, which is ultimately what you're trying to do.

You're always trying to get yourself in a position where you can benefit your physique in the long run, but it does take dieting to do that.

So staying in shape, you know, for quite a lot of years, definitely good for people like us that are online and

trying to educate and create a career.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, one of the craziest things about you telling me about how like they were just trying to take advantage of you and sell you that deball.

I have a, there was this, there's this kid who I coached like three, four years ago.

Naturally, of course, he was natural.

I was coaching him for natural, just natural gains in general.

And I think it was like maybe 14 years old at the time.

Well, he just messaged me about several months ago, hitting me back up again and being like, yo, thank you again for like coaching and everything.

I had some questions to ask you because some things came up and I feel like something is wrong.

I feel like something's off and like something's not right.

Yeah.

And he goes, there's this guy who's become this uncle figure to me, right?

And

we've known each other for like a couple of years now or so or a year.

And I've been really wanting to make some gains and I've been having trouble.

And he's been helping me out.

And he, you know, he, he sold me Winstroll and

I think it was Debull.

Winstroll, Debull, or Winstroll, and Anivar.

Probably combination.

Right.

And it's, and he's like, so I asked my dad and his dad, I asked my dad too.

And my dad was just like, if you don't take anything, but if you have to take something, just do not, do not use a needle.

Like, just don't, don't start using needles.

And so this kid's just like, okay, so well, this guy sent me these orals so i bought these orals from him and then i bought this gh from him that he said would really help and um i want you to like let me know if what you think about this gh and he sends a picture of it and it's a giant bag of

basically he said it's a giant bag of white pills and he says he's he basically told me that this is um a year's worth of gh that he sold me for ten thousand dollars it's clearly some like you know they used to do like capsule form secretagogs yeah so they're like supposedly going to cause you to pulse and get growth hormone response.

It's probably some dodgy company that made a

over-the-counter suspect.

Here you go, if you take this, your body's going to start secreting growth hormone.

And he's probably says something like growth hormone on it.

But if you read the small print, it's probably quite obviously not.

And he's just sold that to that kid who's unaware.

And the kids, you know, it's just bad.

And they start taking advantage of people that just don't have the wisdom.

And

so something you shouldn't do.

You're meant to be here to educate.

And only then, once you've educated, should people be able to make a decision for themselves.

Like, I wish I had that when I was younger.

I wouldn't have probably started anything until I was at least 20, but it just wasn't the time.

You know, people were very different back then.

They just wanted to abuse, really.

And obviously I was young, hungry, and like, yeah, let's compete.

So

I get it.

When you're young, you've got a lot of fire in your belly and you want to get the show started.

You want to get, you know, feet off the ground and get a head start.

A head start isn't a head start if it means that you sell yourself short of potential progress that could have been made naturally.

Because it's like Justin Shire, for example, like he didn't start competing until quite late and he made it to the Olympia because he's someone that's given his body time to develop.

And then once it kind of reaches a plateau, then when you reintroduce or no, sorry, when you introduce something then, you kind of get a second wind.

Whereas someone like me doesn't really get a second wind because I accidentally early on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was actually just about to ask you about that.

I know this is kind of a hard question to answer because obviously it's in like hindsight and you don't really know what the other potential future

roads would have been.

But if you were to like wait until you were say 20 years old and like do it maybe quote unquote the right way, would you have felt like that would have made it?

Oh, you know what?

The funny thing is, it's like, who knows?

Maybe I wouldn't even be a bodybuilder.

Maybe I've needed, maybe I needed everything to happen the way it was to make me feel the way I did because I was.

young, aggressive, demanding and wanting to achieve.

Like I was full of fire in my my belly, probably too much.

But if I didn't have that much, and if I didn't have that aggression, aggression and assertive nature to want to be a champion, which was probably coincided with taking anabolics as a young person, because it interferes with your cognitive kind of portrayal of things, you become a bit animalistic.

And maybe that fire they created and that temperament they created was why I managed to do well.

So maybe let's say I didn't take it and I got to 20 and I found out and I felt that life was pretty chill and I was enjoying going out for coffees and living normally.

Maybe I'll never have even been the bodybuilder.

So I can't really say.

I kind of, I am kind of happy with how I did everything because of what I've got.

Because I don't know whether how much of what I've got is from just discipline

alone

or a

it's a correspondence of the situation I was in with the drugs I was on mixed with adolescent desire to want to be good at something.

Because how much does that fire burn if you take away the amplifier, which probably was the steroids?

Maybe I would still have been the same.

Maybe I would have, but then would I have believed I could?

Because maybe there is an effect, you know, and it sounds sad, but the truth is, obviously, when you're taking something,

you believe your chances are higher of doing well because you're like, now I'm involved in the game to the level of the other people.

No one's got a head start on me.

No one's, you know, I haven't got an arm behind my back anymore.

I'm fighting with two hands.

So I think everything I did was why I've done what I did and how I've got where I got.

But I wouldn't, wouldn't, you know, it doesn't mean I would recommend it or suggest it.

I would rather see people obviously take longer and prioritize

seeing that they love bodybuilding for what it is first and foremost, which means give it time.

Because if you're, if you reach 20, 22 and you're like, I still love this, like, and I want to be a pro, then by all means, you're old enough and intelligent enough then to make that decision and choose your path.

Again, maybe if I had a parent around, like their dad, then it probably would have been different as well because they would have been like, son, what the f ⁇ do you think you're doing?

But I had no one to tell me off.

And and i only had a mom that was like what you what is that what are you doing and i was like i'm a man i'll do what i want

you know what i mean so there was no one being able to like short guard me that's so funny it makes me you got me thinking about my own childhood because my uh my little my situation was interesting it obviously wasn't quite the same as yours but my my dad was present maybe half the time since he was traveling for the other half of the time for his work and everything and um their positions was very interesting because my dad was a little bit more the empathetic kind of person and my mom was more of the hard like you suck you need to be better like yeah you know like almost like kind of the other way for a lot of people yeah yeah so um

no man maybe i'm just all kinds up just going back in time and reliving it's hard because it takes a lot to really revisit because there's certain things that certain memories are like behind a couple of closed doors aren't they they're not something you can access so easily so bro you'd have to have you'd have to have a full we you'd have to have a week of ayahuasca and sit down with Bowie Yates.

Do you know what I mean?

To be able to really unlock that childhood because there's things I don't even remember.

But

all I know is that there was just this really big desire to stand out.

Like, I craved it.

Like, I think I always wanted to be popular.

Like, there's no denying that.

I didn't want to, I always wanted, because I don't think I wasn't the most popular person with the girls and stuff in school.

So

I was like, by the time I'm a man, I'm going to be the most popular.

And that was obviously probably not the right reason at the time.

And that's not why I do it now.

But I'm glad it was a reason because it was a reason that got me in and it got me hooked and it got me here.

Bro, everything you're saying just kind of fucking gives me chills, to be honest.

I feel like I feel a lot of that.

It's because we should relate.

And that's what it's all about, man.

It's about conversing with people that you can relate to and untap certain feelings that you've forgotten you had or realize that you have.

You know, shit, that's me as well.

I was the exact same way because you know, I was like, I was Asian, fat, and overweight, and bullied a lot when I was a kid, and I was in Texas, so it was kind of like primarily white, and it was a little bit,

like, blah, blah, blah, and all that shit, right?

Right, like lots of people calling me chinks and stuff, and making eyes all the time, and all that shit.

And so, and then obviously, parents at home were

feeding into my ears that I wasn't really good enough, and I needed to work harder and better.

So, I think that just drove me to also want to be like, make something of myself, like become someone and something I like.

i love that though i love that now because the thing is you do have a choice you have a choice to either let that be the end of you or the beginning of you

and

you know a lot of people have a sub story but there's also a lot of people that have a sub story that don't do nothing about it so i respect people that have a have a hardship and then go you know what this hardship's my it's my it's going to catapult me somewhere better

And that's just only what someone like yourself or I've done and many others that we know that have reached a certain level of success, whether it's in bodybuilding or not, they've just gone, you know what?

I'm fed up.

I'm fed up of not being where I want to be.

And I'm going to use the energy that's been around me and I'm going to turn it into something positive and I'm going to make something of myself instead of being like, oh, poor me.

Because it's very easy.

And I understand it's very easy to be like, poor me, because life's hard sometimes.

But it's all about focus.

Where do you put your focus?

We will have every day, we have a negative thought, at least once or twice.

But if you can have 10 positive thoughts in that day, then your day's been super super successful.

So it's just about choosing to try and get your focus shifted towards the things that make you feel better.

And it's okay to have a wobble.

It's okay to not feel great all day.

There's 24 hours in a day.

And if for two to three hours of it, you're like, I feel pretty shit.

That's still a good day.

And that's something I have to remind myself a lot.

Because then if you look over the course of your life and your existence, how much of it was spent in a positive place, most of it, you've done well.

I'm glad you said that.

Because it's hard.

And those moments that make you feel shit, they make you cry.

And

you can sit in a moment and you can feel very lost and you can feel very sad.

And it can be overwhelming.

But like I say, dude, like if you look at a percentage of the pie, they're a small portion compared to the rest of life.

And even the moments today that are neutral, neutral is still good.

You know, neutral is great.

If you can be neutral or above that line,

that's a brilliant day.

And it's just also learning to accept that neutral is actually a really good thing as as well.

Because it means then you're at peace and peace is standardized.

It's like a sense of status quo.

And a lot of people want that in their life and they don't have that.

Yeah.

So if you can even feel that experience that for multiple hours a day, where you just kind of feel what most people would consider even flat, flat's not bad, dude.

It's balanced.

It's stable.

You know, so it's okay.

And you can come out and be, you know, what I didn't really feel much today, but I didn't feel bad.

Yeah.

So, I know, I'm just learning all these, these are the the things at this age and through experiences that we've all had.

And every single conversation we've had, every,

every time I've been on YouTube and seen someone rip into me or say something nice, whatever, positive or negative, everything I say now is an expression of all of the experiences I've had, no matter how small, social media, real life, in passing, with family, with friends, in

even just from absorbing things I've seen on the news.

That's

everything I talk about now is just a massive culmination of a formula of everything that I've experienced and I still feel like most things are positive so we have to do that guys like everyone has to try and do that if they can

yeah

it's crazy to think too you have like 70,000 thoughts in the day and if you're having like an anxious day it goes up to like 120,000 so just

imagine how many of those thoughts that you have to sift through that you under that you know just aren't true they they they the thing is with the negative force unfortunately just have a habit of of being quite um

hard to shake.

A positive thought is quite easy to knock off the horse for some reason, but the negative ones seem to hold on like a rodeo.

Yeah, so you just got to shake that horse a little bit harder.

You just gotta

get off, you know what I mean?

Like buckaroo.

Um, and I think a lot of that comes from, again, like I said at the beginning,

environment is a big influence on that because if you put if you're somewhere you don't want to be, then that's already going to make it harder for you to focus on the positive.

Um, and that's why I said I actually did a video the other other day on my YouTube, and I was saying about like one of the most under kind of thought things with bodybuilders is what gym they train at.

Like, I was like, actually, train at a gym that you'd like, don't train at a gym because it's popular, don't train at a gym because it's easy to get to.

Pick an environment that you actually love, and when you're in there, it means something to you because then you'll flourish.

And that's the same with the rest of your life.

If you can, I know that you can't control every single moment of every day, but you do have a certain amount of control over most things.

So, yeah,

Bringing it back to when we were adolescents, because, you know, something

I don't really think about this often, honestly, but I mean, I guess we're reflecting on it now that there is something special about that, like adolescent fire.

Oh, nothing bad.

You can get through,

nothing will stop you.

Nothing will stop you.

That's the moment if you, if you're going to be something in your life, if you're going to get into

something or get through the front door of anything, it's during the adolescent stage because that's when I think you're unstoppable, because you won't take no for an answer at age.

And you will bully your way through, and you will do it without any concern because you don't have the experience to make you feel otherwise.

Because you're limited on your knowledge and you're limited on your

understanding of consequence and you're limited on your understanding of your impact.

You feel like you are so important and that your decisions can change the world.

And so you should.

Because if you feel that way, anything is possible.

And at that age, that is exactly how I felt.

I was like, I'm changing the world tomorrow from my actions.

I'm going to go to the gym, become this bodybuilder, and the bodybuilding world will never be the same again.

And if that's true or not, you know, it's irrelevant.

What it is, is what has it done for you?

And has it got you where you want to get?

And it did.

It did.

And it's still here now.

Obviously, this may be a little bit different from your original path, but if there was anything that we would recommend someone do from the age of, say, 17 to 21, say that they wanted to pursue the kind of road that we were pursuing, what would you recommend?

Now, because things are different,

I would probably just recommend

trying to

differentiate the difference between your reasonings.

If your love is genuine for it, for doing it, the passion for doing it, then it is purposeful and it will last forever.

If you're trying to be a bodybuilder simply for the respect or the eyes on you or the

potential for income, I think that'll be a much shorter-lived career because unfortunately it won't be as wholesome for you as an individual because it has to be about the small things.

It has to be about the, I love being in control, I love progress.

I love seeing myself change and I love living the day how I want to live it under my own guise.

It can't be about the external, it has to be about the internal, right?

Process over the process over

everything, outcome-oriented, yeah, literally, because then you can't fall off the horse.

Because you

love as cheesy as it sounds, love is the most strong uh bonding thing ever to anything, yeah.

So, if you have a genuine love for anything in life,

you won't be able to be rattled because the love's going to remain.

Um, if

if you're someone that just likes to be spoken about and you like to be mentioned, yeah, that's a good fire, don't get me wrong, but it will not last as long as your own internal desire to do something that you enjoy and that gives you something that's far deeper than that outcome itself.

So that's my advice.

If you're a body, if you're a 17-year-old and you want to be a bodybuilder, just make sure you ask yourself that question.

If no one was watching tomorrow, would you like to wake up and live like this monk lifestyle where you prep your meals,

we're sitting along diddly-dallying in the kitchen, cooking your eggs and your oats, and no one's watching.

Are you content with that?

And if that's the feeling that makes you content, that process is what makes you feel content, and then going to the gym after two meals and getting home and feeling satisfied more than anything, then this is for you.

Yeah.

Do you mind me asking?

Uh,

after you started taking the Deball?

Yeah.

Like what happened after that?

Like what was the

route of action?

Like where did you find it?

Or wherever you throw me now, just give it to me.

I'll take it.

The

door was open.

I was like, okay, well, I want to, I'm a bodybuilder now.

I'm taking Deball.

So therefore, you know, it was like, okay, a year later, okay, now I'm going to try and inject a rules.

And then, okay, I'm going to sign up for a show.

It will kind of, it happened fast, you know.

So like I say, I was probably like 16, 17, and 18, most three years.

I was on stage, you know, by the 18th.

And I loved it.

I loved every minute of it.

And

it didn't escalate to the point where I was taking a ridiculous amount of drugs or anything.

I was very low dose, but I was happy to try anything because I accepted that's the way of life now for me.

I was like, this is bodybuilding.

I will have to inject myself with some testosterone here and there.

I will have to take a diuretic at a show.

I will have to do lots of cardio and I will have to eat fuck all.

So I was happy with the decision.

I was personally happy with the decision

do you feel like the deball ever like that year of you taking deball do you think that kind of you up in any kind of way or like do you feel like 100 would have like added like i said earlier to that level of aggression but that level of aggression then was uh added to probably my energy and that energy went into the gym

so the hormones and stuff probably all over the place my blood pressure was probably through the roof because none of us checked stuff like that by then yeah no way there was no there was no health checks like we didn't do that for years that was only started to come around like i mean 2015 16 like is where people started to really do that stuff right um blood work and all that kind of thing so i spent quite a few years where it was just like ignorance is bliss um i honestly got to be real like i know everyone like in the past well obviously they're going to talk about any bodybuilders that have passed away at an earlier age than they're expected but like i'm almost surprised

like I'm almost surprised at the turnout considering that no one really checked their shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To be honest.

For sure, for sure.

Because there's a lot of underlying things like, you know, kidney health, like blood pressure.

Right.

But we do know a lot of people that have kidney issues now from back in the day and stuff.

So a lot of it is obviously genetic components.

And some people have like cholesterol issues, some people have kidney issues, some people have other issues.

And I think we're all probably prone to something.

And it just depends what we are prone to and what we're less prone to because

I think that's what makes the elite, the elite are the ones that seem to have less side effects, yet they seem to do the same as us.

So I don't know.

You look at a person like

Kevin Lavrone,

the amount of like genetic mutations or bad things that have happened during his career by taking gear are probably very minimal compared to someone else who's done exactly the same because genetics.

It's just that, you know.

So,

am I super healthy?

Probably not the best.

I don't know.

I've got some cholesterol issues that I manage.

But I try and keep blood pressure in check and stay hydrated and keep cardio in and do the best it can.

Is there anything with your genetics specifically, though, that you feel like you need to be extra careful with as opposed to say the average?

Probably more so the cholesterol.

I think cholesterol is my thing.

It's hard to get the HDL ALDL balance kind of correct.

So, you know, like Ezotin B and some telomersartin and stuff like that has to be implemented with someone like me.

Would it have had to be implemented if in the beginning I knew what I was doing?

Maybe not.

But again, I didn't know what I was doing in the beginning.

So there's probably a few years of roughage on the body there that maybe caused those mutations or change that I was unaware of at the time.

So if you can start your bodybuilding on the right foot and have the knowledge and look after yourself with certain,

I don't advise everyone goes on medication, but at least keep an eye on Mozin Thingi in check.

And if it's not in check, then do get the certain medications that can help.

There's ultimately you want to stay alive.

Right.

Yeah.

But yeah, I

have never had an issue with like kidneys or liver.

So that's quite, at least that's a good thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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I think I know not everybody has the resources, which obviously it, you know, it just sucks.

But if anyone can, I mean,

I think when I finally got myself to just have a cardiologist that I would go to

and discuss these things with openly, obviously it's not always easy, but when I could, it was kind of helpful because I almost was on the side of just like being more, like I thought I needed to get,

I thought I needed to get,

what is it?

I'm freaking blinking right now.

Like, I already got an echocardiogram, but I thought I had to get every single scan, honestly.

Calcium score

scan.

Yeah, die.

I've had all that done, like, die and stuff like that.

And obviously, my heart wasn't 100%, but it wasn't further along than I anticipated or than

needs to be worried about as such.

Right.

Like he was telling me that

I was kind of honestly just really concerned.

And him looking at my ApoB b and my lp little a levels like i thought my apo b was really high and everything and that would be a really big serious issue but he's just like now looking at your lp little a and like the genics that you're prone to and the and how young you are still like it's i think it has to be it's in correspondence with many other factors a lot of things are in correspondence with the situation as well so you know like even like something the city is creating kinetic like people are like oh my god like but you know you train five days a week yeah come on dude and you train hard so

um these things have to be be considered as well, because you are an athlete and you do put yourself under a lot more stress than

the majority of people that are getting these tests done.

The majority of people that these people have done tests on

because their experience is with general pop a lot of the time.

So you do need to try and find people that have a little bit more accustomed to having dealt with athletes before.

Because then that changes everything because then the markers are slightly broader because you will have slightly elevated this and that.

And even with like blood pressure, for example, if you're someone that's like 275 pounds,

the likelihood it is still going to be slightly elevated just because you're 275 pounds, even if you're lean.

So it's just, is it okay within you to be that way, or is it still problematic?

So.

Whether it's completely true or not, there was one thing that I agreed on with Dr.

Todd about how

maybe it's a, maybe it's better to at least look at the doctors or look for doctors that seem to be on the younger side or maybe under the age of 40.

Yeah, because I think

even no matter what it is, like even if you like, I've just added my daughter, and even if the difference between seeing someone to see my daughter that's old and someone that's like my age, the amount of concern that the older people have versus the younger, it's crazy.

Like they tell you that you're doing everything wrong if they're in their 70s or 60s.

Whereas if you're in your 30s, if they're in their 30s and they're seeing you, they're like, yeah, times have changed a lot.

This is okay.

So it is definitely something that you should consider as well: is who is actually having a look at your blood work and helping you out with your scans or whatever it may be, whatever it may be, even physiotherapy.

You know, so aside from Azetam I've been telling Masari and are there any other extra supplementations or protocols that you implement?

Just health something in general.

So obviously just making sure that you've got a good amount of like astragalus for kidneys, NAC and Tutka for liver,

you know, your omega-3s, your vitamin D3, K2.

And then even like the cortisol control, you know, like L-theanine, ashwagandha, magnesium, because all those things are important.

But yeah, I pretty much take, listen, dude, I take like pretty much everything I can in order to try and keep myself in check.

You know, even down to something in the city is like joint supplements for like trying to keep my, you know, like UC2 collagen and stuff like that, just to try and help.

Cause I do have arthritis.

So

I try and stop, I just try to stay on top of everything as best as I can.

Where do you feel the arthritis most?

Mine's in my knee.

I've got to let me arthritis really bad.

Bro, really bad.

God.

It's in my genetics.

And

I'm feeling some shit in my knees right now.

So maybe it's a fucking

shit.

But the thing is, you still can train, but you just have to be much more smart.

So I do a lot of rehab, a lot of glute activation, like maybe three days a week at home, like half an hour each time.

And if you, because my knee became an issue because I trained this particular way for so many years where I'm such a,

squat guy, and I used to squat so quad-dominant that I've obviously built up a lot of strength in my quadriceps, but my hips and glutes are behind.

And therefore,

over years and years, the tightness in the quad actually causes a lot of patellar kind of tracking issues.

And those tracking issues and being offset and whatnot eventually causes issues.

And then my knee has become arthritic.

as a byproduct of kind of that.

But by training my glutes and

the kind of posterior chain a little bit more um

it's kind of alleviated a lot of that stress and i can train uh maybe not like i used to but i can still do what i need to do to be a good bodybuilder so uh but you don't know you know when you're growing up and you're just like okay i can shift a lot of weight doing this you train however you're going to train that brings the best feeling for you whether it's like oh i feel great doing this or it looks good

um

so that's one bit of advice i give everyone when you're training like especially like squats and stuff like try to be someone that's quite quite diverse with your form.

You know, do some like hip dominant squats, but also do some quad dominant squats.

Make sure even doing,

you know, Bulgarian split squats with like a short range and the long range.

Like, make sure that you get glute recruitment.

Don't neglect your glutes, your medial glutes.

Don't, you know, just make sure that you're hitting everything equally.

I know we're all in pursuit of like massive quads, but they'll grow anyway.

You got to think a little bit deeper than that.

You got to think about also preservation of the joints in order to be able to still be able to train those body parts productively and stay as a bodybuilder for longer.

Okay.

I'm glad that you told me that because I think I'm one of the people that you needed to tell that advice to, to be honest.

Probably, because you've probably got really good quads and you probably sit right into your squat and butt wink like I used to.

But the problem with that is then we neglect strengthening our

glute mead.

So ideally, really, when you first get in the gym and you're training legs, get that gluten mead work done and get some bridging done and some

side steps and some bandage shit.

I know know it's a bit tacky and it looks a bit stupid, but it is such a benefit.

Okay.

And it'll keep you going for longer, man.

And that's what you want.

You don't want to get to an age where you're like, man, I can't do what I used to do anymore.

Right.

Because you can prevent it.

In terms of when you were saying that you've become so quad dominant that it almost like kind of pulled on your patellar tendon or kind of like

overdeveloped and

versus underdeveloped, let's say hamstrings and glutes.

So they're lengthened, but your quadriceps tight.

So the tendon that leads into your knee is under more tension.

And over the years, that can pull this patella slightly off track.

And then when you're bending your knee, there's a tracking method of the patella.

It should glide over the kneecap in a certain way.

If that becomes like problematic and it doesn't quite travel how it should, after a while, that's when you'll start noticing issues occur.

And that's basically what happened with me.

You basically just want an even amount of torque going through your quads and hams for as long as possible rather than all going through one muscle or the other.

It'd be the same if it was the other way around.

You'd have issues occurring at the back.

So just make sure you're very aware of that and you don't do too much on one versus the other.

Okay, cool.

But then also think laterally as well.

Don't just think about frontal plane training.

Think about clams and adapter work as well because that'll help as well.

Right.

Gotcha.

I think I was always on the, I mean, I do.

try to do as much volume and work on my posterior chain as I do my quadriceps, though I could do definitely some more on my glutes.

be lazy with because it just doesn't feel that satisfactory.

Right.

Like I'm not super excited about getting like big massive fucking dump trucks and stays.

I would say it's more, it's more, I wouldn't say it's not necessarily about the weight training them.

It's probably more about the rehabilitation and the banded work.

So like banded clams and banded bridges because it's more activation.

Because if they're active before you get in the gym, then when you do these squats and stuff, they're going to be recruited better.

So therefore they're engaged.

And typically they wouldn't be.

So as long as they're engaged, then they're going to get some work, especially on high leg press and stuff.

Right, right, right.

Cool, cool, cool.

It was always like in my head, I think subconsciously, I was just thinking, like, okay, well, I'm putting a lot of like pressure on my knees, but I'm warming up properly.

So maybe, maybe this is like knees over toes guy who says that you need to do a little bit of, you need to do some of this work, some of this like

knees over toes work to strengthen.

You do as well, because that's, that's great to keep your knees healthy.

Um, but again, that's additional as well.

Like all these things need to be done together.

Yeah.

Because if you only did knees over toes, then you'll start noticing differences and issues.

Right.

Right.

So.

Fuck.

When do you feel like in bodybuilding you started doing things right?

Probably about 2017 when I turned pro.

I started to sort out my training.

I actually started to do like push-ball legs.

And I was under the guise of like Jordan Peters back then.

And it helped because what happened is then I started to reduce my total volume, but my frequency was slightly higher.

And that helped me grow.

And that's when I started to put muscle on.

So really, like I was saying earlier, I struggled to put muscle on, but that helped.

So when I realized that you don't have to be super conventional in your training split, you can make an adjustment plan to suit you.

And pairing certain body parts just made sense.

I obviously trained a Patrick in a way that was good as well.

We paired different body parts like biceps and hamstrings.

Quads had their own day.

So it doesn't really matter.

It's not like you have to do a specific split, but finding the split that feels good for you is definitely necessary.

One that you can adhere to for a long time without getting bored of, because a lot of people just end up getting tired of it and then they call it a day with it.

And then you don't see no progress.

So I've always found that push-pull legs is pretty decent or push-legs, pull, whatever order you want to do, because you can do like a two-on-one off.

And then it gives you a bit of spice in terms of the rotation.

It's not always the same days meeting each other.

And I think, you know, five-day a week training is pretty much the best for

middle ground.

But I think you can grow a lot on four day a week.

So I think preps like five day a week, but I would say with your off-season, four-day a week.

And

then with volume and training, I really do think it's down to the individual.

But I think if you're doing two exercises, two, sorry, sets per an exercise, I think that's ample.

Because I think if you're someone who can put in effort into a set, one to two is enough.

I think it just has to be there.

So let's say, for example, let's say you are doing a push day, for example.

Let's say you're doing chest anterior delts and triceps.

I would say three, three, three.

I would just go three, three, three.

I would do like a heavy barbell incline press.

I'll do a fly and I would do like a wide dip or a decline press.

And then for like shoulders, I'd probably do two lateral variations and then an overhead press style.

And then for triceps, I'd do a press down.

I would do an overhead cable extension of some sort.

And then I would do a single arm overhead dumbbell extension.

That makes sense.

So you just, there's, there's variety in those three.

They should always be slightly different than each other, in my opinion.

So

free exercise for each body part that will offer something different for that, that body part of that day.

And then if you have a second exercise, a workout during the week, five days' time, because you're doing two on one off,

nothing wrong with doing slightly different exercises that kind of do the same thing.

So, okay, I did cable fly last time.

I'm going to do dumbbell fly today.

And instead of incline dumbbell press, I'm going to do incline smith.

So I always like to have kind of a setup that's kind of particular, but I don't mind rotation within that.

I used to, back in college, I used to do like a five-day rotation, which was basically just push, pull, shoulders, and abs, legs, rest.

And I noticed that whenever I upped the frequency, but lowered the volume of each muscle group, obviously, respectively with a frequency increase.

That's like, I feel like that was honestly a game changer for me, especially paired with like eating enough calories on those days.

Yeah.

You're trying to grow the muscles.

What mine is if you feel that your appetite starts to get better as well for it, because

you're doing enough to stimulate that response, but you're not hanging around in the gym too long.

We want to do more.

That's the problem with bodybuilders.

Yeah, but more, more doesn't, yeah.

But the thing is, with more,

more just digs a hole and then trying to get out of the hole takes time.

And then that's when you actually emotionally get tired of bodybuilding and then you don't enjoy it anymore.

And that's the biggest red flag is when you start to not enjoy your training, something's off.

And it's normally because you're overdoing it.

It's a really easy indicator.

Okay, like I'm not really enjoying being in the gym.

Okay, well, something's just being slightly overdone.

Then

it's like watching a movie and then you outstay the welcome, you know, like get to the hour mark, and then you're like, you know, I'm bored of this film.

You've probably watched too many films lately.

Just like you need a little bit of a pullback.

So you could either take yourself from five days a week to four days again training.

You can get that little bit more time away from the gym to re-establish your love for it, or you just devolumise in total so that you're not feeling so burnt out in general.

I do feel like for those of us that have been a little bit more, or maybe like

when we go to the gym, it's a little bit more of like an emotional,

an emotional feat for us rather than like a logical, like, this is what I got to do to make progress type thing.

I feel like that's for sure.

It's very easy.

The good thing is they can be one in the same if you allow yourself to have that, like I said, that variety in your rotations.

Because then it's kind of like, okay, I just love being in the gym and I like doing different exercises.

but it's still a format but then it's enough flexibility that it makes it still

representative of how you feel about going to the gym

you know there's an enjoyment thing first and foremost and i would say this well another thing that makes the gym really enjoyable is just

is just presence is just making sure that you're not thinking about everything else going on in the day is that while you're in there you know in between the sets just try to count to 60.

out loud in your head because it'll pull you in the moment and then you're like i like being in here whereas if you're thinking in between sets about what you got to do later today, it's going to spoil the gym session.

So you have to be able to, when you're in the gym, you have to be selfish.

You're in the gym.

And that's when you still love it.

You have to be fully committed, fully in there.

Be like, I love being here.

I'm going to be here mentally and physically at the same time in correspondence so that I get the most out of this experience because I can sort out the rest of the day when I'm out of here.

Don't rush.

Don't rush.

I think rushing is one of the worst things you can do in the gym.

So

after you started competing at 18, what did life start looking like?

Um,

from 18 to 27, it was kind of

standard, man.

You know, I was working to fuel bodybuilding, did some coaching, worked in

many jobs, shit jobs, but just to pay for bodybuilding.

I didn't care about what job I had.

Worked at like leisure centers, worked in office relocation.

Everything was a means to the end to pay for bodybuilding because the only thing I really cared about was bodybuilding.

I worked with some great coaches, met some great friends.

I had Evan Sentipani as a coach.

Chris Asito helped me.

I had Phil Veers.

You know, I worked with so many people because I wanted to know more about the industry.

And also I like meeting people and I like to know people's methods because ultimately I want to know the methods myself.

Yeah.

Everything was.

Yeah, everything was.

Everything has always been and still is about bodybuilding for me, if I'm honest.

Like, if I died tomorrow, my grave would say he was a bodybuilder.

I'm not the best, but I am a bodybuilder, man.

And there's not many people that are more of a bodybuilder than me, I promise.

Like, if you would cut my veins and look at the color of the blood, that's bodybuilding.

It's just, you know, it doesn't necessarily make you the best because unfortunately, it's not down to you to be the, you know, but I can't be denied.

I am a bodybuilder because I just love it so much.

And everything's always been about living it.

And the thing is, because I love it so much, it's why it's also given me the most anxiety and stress.

Yeah.

Because I care about it so much that when something doesn't feel like it's right in bodybuilding, it emotionally affects me

because I care about it.

But then at the same time, when something feels like it's going right, if I'm working with the right coach or if I'm having a good time,

nothing compares.

How do you feel like you've like

how do you feel like you've detached yourself from that anxiety and stress?

Especially if it has to do with like, you know, outcomes at shows.

The only way I really do is

honestly, it's take, I have to take a moment and I have to actually just focus on breathing and

just like reflect reflect how lucky we are to be able to be in the position we are because a lot of people want to be in that position and then secondly is like also have another kind of mini hobby that you like that keeps you entertained so that when you are not in the gym that you can switch off because you're still going to tick the boxes and still bodybuild all day You're going to eat your meals, you're going to do your steps, all your cardio.

It's going to happen.

But what you don't need is just to sit there and think about bodybuilding all day on those days off, especially after 15 years of competing.

More so, the longer you bodybuild for, the more you need something else that tickles your fancy that is a good addition to your bodybuilding.

Whether it's gaming or technology or painting, art, music, it doesn't matter.

Just something that you're like, you know what, this makes me feel rested.

And because I feel rested, I could give more to my bodybuilding.

Obviously, life's changed a lot now because I have my daughter Hayley and I'm really looking forward to her being a factor of that.

But she's also a massive driving force for me to want to be even more successful for this.

So

it's an interesting one.

I think

we just live in a time where it's very easy to get anxious because there's so much stimulation and so much presented to us so frequently and so often and so fast that really the only thing that we can do as people is just try to take a moment to sit down and say slow down.

It's okay to go slow for a day.

You know, take it all in because we just feel like we've always got to respond or reply or we've got something to do when

really the only thing you've got to do is what matters to you and if what matters to you right now is just being a great bodybuilder then you've probably got about six things you need to do today just do them and the rest is up to you yeah

so glad you said that that's actually something that uh alexia and i regularly tell each other because normally you know you don't you don't know when you're going to have those days where you just feel like almost incapacitated or like um you just uh wake up with things just not happening in the right the right fashion and the problem with that is is of course is procrastination and then you feel worse.

So

I just honestly think that it's obviously very important to have someone around you who understands that, like you have your partner, I have Yannika, and just to be able to go, you know what, I'm grateful.

Just take a moment and say, I'm grateful.

And also,

you know,

it helps if you have someone like Patrick in your life, who's a great coach, who can make you feel

pretty chilled.

Like, I love Patrick, and I remember like working to Patrick.

And one thing that was really positive about him is that it wasn't all just bodybuilding talk, man.

Like, it was life talk.

And sometimes you just need to talk about life because life's there all the time.

Yeah.

You know, and if life's good, bodybuilding is good.

Yeah, agreed.

It's the thing that I feel like maybe

I feel like we all kind of know this in a small sense, but it definitely took me like the last couple of years to really realize how important it was to just have some kind of level of stress management.

And

I think understanding how important it is that I take every day as I need to and prioritize the things in my life that matter aside from bodybuilding, including my mental health

and wellness.

Exactly.

Because otherwise my body's going to reflect that.

Yeah, 100%.

And the thing is, as well,

you only live one day.

So.

You never live two days.

You never live three.

You only live the day you're living.

So it's also understanding that there's no point being too fixated on what was tomorrow was yesterday

because

if you're it's that old sand if you're thinking about tomorrow then you're distracted from today

and if you're thinking about yesterday then you're living in the past and it's already changed so

obviously it's good to be conscious of where you're heading but just don't let it be heavy it doesn't have to be heavy because i do this in the morning when i go for a walk by the fields sometimes i just breathe and I go, you know what, James, just keep doing what you're doing.

And you know what that is?

That's that you're lifting up one leg and you're putting it in front of the other one.

That's all you'll do.

And the rest of the body will follow.

Just one foot in front of the other.

Instead of thinking about where am I going to be when I get around that corner?

What's going to be around when I get up that hill?

You're not at the hill yet.

You've got feet to put in front of each other.

So just put the feet in front of each other, man.

Because that is how you stay happy, because then at least you're concentrating on now.

And that's really the only thing I've really been trying to get even more into, you know, over the last however many years is just be

here and now because that is all that you have.

I feel like something that's

a weird thing to talk about sometimes because I'm not, I feel like there are a lot of people out there that can relate to this, but I feel like one of the things that's almost been,

it's been both a blessing and a curse for me.

is it's been a lot easier for me to, I think, detach from my anxieties of the future because of all the crazy shit that's happened to me that has just been so unexpected in my life.

Like my best friends passing away in their 20s

and just an assortment of other things that you just, you never fucking expect.

Like, like, I was going to, um, I was going to elope with this partner of mine.

And then it's a story that I'm not going to get into right now, but obviously, like, you don't expect them running away with somebody else.

And you don't expect them.

You know what?

The thing is, with stuff that happens just like that,

it's actually, like I say, there can be a positive that comes from it because then

you lose

the want to even concentrate too far ahead because you're like, anything can happen.

Yeah.

Which is positive, really, because then you're like, you know what?

I can't think about it because I can only control today.

If it's going to happen, it's going to happen.

And that's actually you letting go of a weight.

And that's good because then you're not carrying it on your shoulder.

And to carry stuff is the biggest issue for all of us is that when we carry way too much, that we just feel like we can't move.

You have to let go.

You have to express, breathe it out, let it be.

You know, it's out there rather than keeping it in here or in here.

Because if it's in here all the time, it just hurts, man.

Yep.

So I think that's the thing that's.

That's the thing that's made it a lot easier for me to like move forward in a very present fashion is understanding that expectations are suffering.

Have you ever heard of that statement?

Yeah, yeah.

And

I mean, from that, man, it just definitely makes things like, like, now I can think about, you know, I'm just going to lift as hard as I can.

I'm going to follow my plan as best as I can.

I'm going to give everything my all, whether or not I get first at this show or not.

Dude, dude, works out.

Not having expectations is actually a good thing.

The shows I've won, the pro shows I've won, I didn't know I was going to win.

I just was like, you know what?

I'm just going to try hard and what happens happens.

And like you say, because expectation can only lead to one thing, and that's sometimes disappointment.

It's not often that you have an expectation and it prevails and then you're like yeah man i've got like a double good feeling out of this it's nice to almost be the person that approaches something that's just like well

let's just see

because i've had it i've been at a pre-judging and i'm clearly in first place and then people are like you've got this and i'm like no i not yet just chill like it could all change let me just like do my thing i'm not going to get expectations i'm not going to let it ride the high I'm not going to be like, yeah, I'm the bollocks because that's when you set yourself up for failure.

I'd rather just make something happen.

If it happens, then I'll celebrate it and I'll be like, that was good.

But I'll never let my ego grow from that because there's no point.

Because ego is a bad thing, it's just not needed.

You can be confident because you've worked your house off, but confidence is knowing that you're going to be your best.

It doesn't mean you're going to kick everyone's ass because

I don't see anyone as lesser than me.

I'm not like, oh, I'm going to come to the show and you are nowhere near as good as me.

It's not that.

It's more that I'm just like, I have the power to win.

If I do, it'll happen.

If I don't, it didn't happen.

Yeah.

And I think that's the same with life.

I think so too.

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You always need a piss at least once.

Everybody who does.

At least once, man.

And then I heard like Chris Williamson talking about how it's like, it's like a skill.

I just like learning how to just hold it throughout the entire podcast.

I'm like, that's fucking insane.

I've got a tall podcast.

I hate holding the piss, bro.

It's the worst feeling in the world.

I hate it.

It's just not, it's not how I like to.

No, not made for bodybuilders.

No.

It fucks me up.

So, I mean, going off what we were last talking about, honestly, if you don't mind me asking, I recall you.

I guess I'm just kind of curious about what the situation was with your mom that happened last time.

Well, It was so well okay.

So my mom passed away of cancer in 2019.

But growing up, my dad left when I was six.

They had, I think he had an affair and then left.

So I grew up with just my mum.

So my mum was always my rock, my reason.

I did my bodybuilding really to financially support her.

So I had a tough time when she passed away because I didn't know what my reason was anymore.

It was not really...

The desire to bodybuild was because I was like, like yeah man i'm gonna like be able to afford to buy my mom anything she wants and then you suddenly find that person's not in your life anymore and you're like what the hell have i got so i think that's why in reflection now that hailey being born is kind of like whoa

it's a good thing like i'm more fired up than ever because i've almost got a new reason because i'm not really someone that does stuff

just for myself there has to be something a bit deeper going on

um i've always been that way you know i'm a thoughtful person i care and i'll do something in good gesture gesture for other people.

So, even with my bodybuilding, it's good gesture for some.

It has to be have more to it than just simply be I want to be a bodybuilder.

I'll do it regardless.

But the competitive side and the salary and the money-that's all more to do with

who can I support and how.

But yeah, so mum passed away, sucked, changed life forever.

It was pretty hard to deal with.

And then, and then Luke passed away one year later, and I was like, shit, man, damn, this is real life.

People pass away, fuck.

So,

um, you know, and

it's taught me a lot.

It's changed me a lot.

You learn to kind of, you learn to say to yourself,

give everybody that you've got around you a little bit more time, a little more energy, especially the people that are really important to you.

Be patient with them.

Don't get too aggravated with them because I know it's easy to get pissed off and moan.

But just understand that, like you say, things could change.

They might not be here tomorrow and, or you might not be here tomorrow.

So just make the most of it.

Yeah.

It resonates with me a lot.

Yeah.

Like you say, you lost your friend.

That's what it does.

That's what it does.

Yeah.

How did your friendship with Luke start?

So Luke, my friendship was quite interesting because we were obviously competing and we were like enemies.

And I used to beat him.

I used to beat him all the way up to 2016.

I used to beat him in bodybuilding, like

the British.

And then that dude just kept growing.

And then everyone was like, he's the next big thing.

And he was.

And he beat everybody.

And

we kind of just became friends from doing, I think, the the podcast because i was doing a podcast with my friend band he called the size game we were like one of the early bodybuilding podcasts that was here in the uk and it was actually a really good one and uh we had luke come on as our co-host and we formed a great friendship on there this is before he did it with fooad and whatnot um

so we all learned to host on there and um

me and luke

decided to train together when Ben Chow moved to America because he needed a training partner.

So I started training in Muscleworks Orpington with Luke for a year.

And we just became really good mates.

And he liked me that much that he was like, man, you need to come to Redcon.

And my boy got me in on Redcon.

I was with him and Aaron for a couple of years at Redcon.

I had a great time.

He did a lot for me.

And he was my friend.

And I was there to listen to him and give him my ear because I know he was someone that had a lot of...

issues on his mind, things that kind of upset him emotionally.

So really, my training with Luke wasn't probably the best training I've ever had.

It was more more of a good time in regards to i felt very positive that i was putting myself in a position to be able to listen to a friend in need

because at the time he just there was something just not right and i just felt pressure and upset this is like kind of after he had a lot of success and then he was coming into

he's coming into his own as a bodybuilder after the arnold and stuff

And I just think he felt a lot of pressure and I was just trying to be the best mate I could.

Not that I really knew what I was doing, but I was like, I'll turn up, I'll train, I'll listen and just be a good friend and that's how we kind of that's our relationship

I cared about him a lot and I wanted him to do well I didn't really it was for the first time in a long time I was like man if I don't do as good I don't care as long as my training partner does yeah

because he obviously had such potential but he was like the opposite to me he was like I want you to get to the Olympia James so it was really crazy that after he passed away that same year, I got to the Olympia.

It's crazy how that happens, huh?

Yeah, because I was like, I can't let him down now.

He came out of fire.

So I won two pro shows back to back that year because of him.

Wow.

Because I was like, I can't not finish the job.

I had a lot of rage, a lot of emotion in me that year, and I used it.

I was doing the craziest feats of strength in the gym, but in a bodybuilding fashion, that it would have been hard for anybody to outdo me that year in regards to what I was putting into the gym.

But unfortunately, the sad thing is it took a loss for that to be the case.

It took losing someone to bring that out.

And I don't wish that on anybody.

But

I owe Luke my two victories early on in my career because without what happened, I don't know if I would have had the power or the emotion to make it happen.

Because like I said, I'm not driven by myself sometimes.

I'm driven by others.

And the fact that he passed away and I felt so sad is what gave me an increased amount of drive and energy to see the job done.

So it was all for him.

That's why my jumper, my Olympia jumper from the year, actually lives next to his at the gym because it's where it belongs because I wouldn't have done it without him.

It's crazy, but they always live within us, man.

Yeah, and like I try not to forget, you know, it's easy to let the days go by, but I miss him.

And obviously Ben Chow is a good friend of mine.

And when I talk to Ben, I think of Luke and Luke and him were like best, best friends.

So I tried to be a good friend to Ben because I know he's lost his best friend, you know, so it's kind of made mine and Ben's relationship stronger.

And I'm grateful for Luke to introduce me to Ben like that because I love Ben.

I think Ben's a great person.

He's one of the few people that I'll send pictures of like Hey, me to and

do the odd call with and FaceTime and actually have a proper chat because the love's actually genuine.

So I've got a lot of time for Ben.

I uh it's it's weird for me to say.

And I hate having to say like almost like this had to happen for it to click with me, but I feel like after Ryan passed, I don't know, I think everything about my mentality just completely changed about how

different things yeah

yeah i just i think i was extremely cynical before him yeah um but he was uh i don't think i know anyone that's been through more tragedy than him like just solely like him and his life yeah and i've talked about it a bunch of times about how it was like his mom got murdered when she was when he was seven he had to see her dead in their house and like

that puts a lot into perspective because then you realize that your shit is nothing yeah

yeah it's like this guy, you want to know real strength?

My friend had the strength.

And

I could be like the best.

Yeah, at least I can do this strong for them.

Yeah.

So it's just weird to like reflect that I'm also seeing this happen again now.

But now Lexi's going through this where she's Liv was probably one of the best people that I knew that was in her life, just the most selfless person.

And now it's weird that it's, it's almost like Liv is pulling strings for Lexi, like all these things that Liv helped Lexi get through.

Like after Liv passed, suddenly they came like...

It's tough, man, because you notice the thing is, it's kind of inevitable as well, because it's just

life, as you get older, unfortunately, some things happen.

Some when you're younger, some when you're older, but it does happen to us all.

I am kind of like, kind of glad it happened when I was younger, because I feel like I had the

wits and the

I'd rather have the experience earlier in the life so I can help others.

later in life.

You know what I mean?

Because if something happens to you very late in life, you haven't got a voice to to be able to help others.

It's too late.

So, you know, the losses we've had, I kind of feel like at least I can sit on a podcast and have a chat and try and help anyone else that's kind of maybe prematurely facing loss.

You know, especially like parents or friends and stuff.

So,

you know, like Justin Shai is a good friend of mine.

And he, he lost his mum not that long after.

So I could totally sympathize, you know?

And this made me able to talk to someone like him in a way that I can't talk to everybody because I understand him.

Yeah.

You know, it's crazy.

I I feel like that's exactly what happened with me and Lexi because, like, the two years that I've known her before this happened, I was always telling her stories about Ryan, how he affected me, made me a better person.

And I would talk about how, like, you know, his angel vshery is coming up on 7-Eleven.

And I was talking about that again this year, 7-Eleven, just a month ago.

You know, his angel versus coming up.

And I just want to continue to remember him by being a good person.

And it came up in that evening of 7-Eleven, she got a call.

And

hand on the phone was like, I'm so sorry, Lexi.

but um liv got a random blood clot in her foot and um

couldn't be revived and passed away that's also fucked up as well like it just the randomest like when you think how the hell am i not gone already because the most random things occur to people that anything can go wrong so that's again but like you said earlier because of that it attitude lets you be more free

because you're kind of like well

I don't have the control over this, so I'm not going to let it rule me.

Because you could walk out tomorrow and anything could happen.

Yeah.

But there's no point living in fear.

Right.

There's more point living

with

yourself being, yeah, being a person that

gives everything you can so that what you leave behind is something that's precious.

And the people go, you know what?

They were a fucking good person.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

No.

It was crazy too, because like, just like you said, you know, since I had my experiences, I was able to be there for her, you know, the week of the funeral and everything.

And obviously.

You might not have known what to do in a situation like that.

Otherwise, you would have been very alien.

And then you can't sympathize.

It's hard.

Right.

So

it was almost like it was it was almost like I could empathize a little too easily.

Yeah.

Almost just seeing it all happen again.

And

she obviously it was really hard for her to like have the space to be happy or nice to anyone around her, including me.

But then suddenly like after the funeral, we're driving back home and

she's tearing up and i'm tearing up and then she just turns to me and goes like

i'm so sorry that you've had to be so long without ryan

and i was like telling her for like two years like i know like i really want to name my son ryan like someday i want to name my son ryan and she just turns to me and goes like i finally know what i want to name our kids now yeah

and it just fucking hit me like a truck man yeah But there you go, man.

It's weird, isn't it?

How many people have walked these paths as well before us?

Like, we always like, we don't really look at our parents or their parents or anything and realize how complex it is and how deep everyone's lives are.

And that's why I've got time for people because I realized that everything that me and you are like discussing right now, like people listening are going through

same level, more level, deeper, might have more work on shit.

So it's like, man, just the least we can do is have time for each other.

Yeah.

You know?

Line up the mood.

Talk about bodybuilding real quick.

What do you think your favorite prep was?

Favorite prep.

I've had a couple of good preps.

I liked the

Arnold 2024 prep was quite good.

I've got

a decent prep there.

I was eating a lot of food, man, but a lot of cheat meals as well.

But then working with Patrick was obviously a good prep.

It was really intense.

That was Arnold 2024.

No, I did my own prep for 2024.

Oh, wow.

How do you feel like it was doing your own prep versus going?

I was so close to being what I needed to be.

I've got fifth and I was in fourth joint with John De La Rosa at pre-judging.

And I just made some calls and came back a bit flatter in the uh finals.

So I would have, if I got fourth of the Arnold, they're safe by my own doing, I would have been pretty proud.

Top five, even like to have a medal and meet Arnold was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Um, but after, yeah, you can't deny the preps, obviously, that you win, you always feel like you're good ones.

The show that I was hoping about did most of my prep myself that I won was the tsunami 2022.

That was pretty good um because again i like it when i do it my way

so

um

because my way does it's quite fun you know you get cheat meals and stuff like that

i've also but i've done i've done listen like right now i haven't had a cheat meal for probably

14 weeks um

i haven't had a i haven't had a meal off i haven't had a burger or nothing so i can do either way and it just depends fuck bro i miss burgers man

i miss pizza but you know it is what it is is what it is man

Do you want to get shredded or do you want to moan?

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think I've liked a lot of my preps, even the ones that aren't necessarily the wins.

Like, when I first started placing like top three at pro shows, they've been preps I've really enjoyed.

I had a really good prep with Phil Viz back in 2019 when we did the uh Big Man Weekend.

I got third Take him and Josh La Martowitz.

I beat Rafa, I beat SM Obade, I beat

quite a lot of good pros there.

And then, obviously, when I won with Patrick at Europa, I beat Samson, Mark Hector, Rafa, Lucas Osnodil,

Regan Grimes.

I had a really good showing.

And then the British, the week after, I beat Regan again.

What do you feel like was good about that prep with Patrick?

Like, what about it?

What about what you guys did?

I think it's just consistent.

Just consistent.

Patrick was very consistent in what he was trying to get out of me.

And I was just flawless in regards to delivering what he suggested.

But, you know, right now I'm having a real good time.

I've got someone helping me in a minute I haven't spoken about and I won't for a little while because we're just good friends.

But like, I love him and I feel like we have a really good relationship and I really enjoy the way that we interact and I'm feeling very good.

And again, I'm not planning on anything.

It's not like I'm prepping for a show.

I'm actually just working with someone that I've had a lot of respect for and been friends with for a long, long time.

and uh learning and enjoying it and just trying to be in the moment.

So right now I feel really good as well because the conversation I have

are great conversations, and there's a reason behind the things that I'm doing and doing, and what we do, and it all makes sense to me right now, and it's fun.

That's cool, yeah.

Do you feel like there was ever anything regarding

well,

how do you feel like the cheat meals affected your conditioning by the time the show came out?

I probably could have been a bit leaner, but they kept my silhouette good, they kept my fullness better.

like arnold 2024 my fullness was comparable with pretty much everybody and i i was in good shape i just could have been a bit crisper so probably just i probably would have needed to pull out six weeks out and then dropped another six to eight pounds to really be in the shape that warranted it and that's the truth so i held myself back a little bit on the level of condition i could acquire because of cheap meals

But they kept my silhouette fuller and I was standing next to big people like Samson.

So therefore, it was a way up in my mind of what sort of physique am I going to bring to this Arnold?

Is it going to be a bigger James with more volume to the muscle, more pack, or is it going to be a more shredded one?

And

I chose the previous, and I think it was favorable for me to do that because,

like I say, a pre-judging, I was full as a house, and in that finals, I came back somewhat more dehydrated, and I actually lost points.

So, the judges have often liked me quite full.

When I won the tsunami in 2022, I was pretty damn full.

Good condition, but not like the most crispy.

But right now i'm kind of like aiming for

really good condition so we'll see yeah we'll see how do you feel like uh the prep with phil was different than the prep with

patrick

uh phil's was more like organized in regards to like phil really liked monitoring blood sugar and like tinkering around with insulin and stuff like that whereas patrick was more training intensity.

So they're very different.

One had more focus on training, one had more focus on,

I suppose, like drug protocols and nutrition.

So

I felt like I learned different things from both.

But, you know, with Patrick, the reason I think that works so well as well is because it was during a time where I was so emotional.

Like I said,

I had a lot of energy and Patrick's training is very hard.

And I managed to do it without faltering once because I had such a high level of emotion going into every session.

Yeah.

So it's hard to do Patrick's stuff if you don't have some emotion, mind you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it's hard.

Well, I feel like Patrick also puts a lot of purpose into what we do.

Like, I feel like he's just really good at feeling that purpose with, with honestly, just who he is as a person.

Like what he's a great guy, what he feels.

And I think that because of that purpose, it's easy to like hit those SOC sets, those fucking savage training.

You know, even Stefan, when I prepped to Stefan, I had a fun time.

It just wasn't the right prep for me.

It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it.

I loved it.

I loved working with Stefan.

I think he's a great person.

But just for my body, it didn't yield the result that was required, and that's just what it is.

But I think he's an outstanding human, and I think when he gets it right with some people, I think it's a great result.

Uh, it just wasn't for me, and we're not all compatible on that level.

We're very compatible as friends.

I love him, and I'll talk to him.

I'll play Marriott Heart of him.

I could sit with him in a room for hours, and I think he's a huge exceptional human being.

It just

the coaching for me personally just wasn't the best James, so that's why I'm right, kind of just floating around doing this right now.

Because

only my main concern is being the best James.

Do you know?

Do you happen to know specifically about

what you guys did together that might not have been a good thing?

No, I think it's just time.

It's just nutrition.

It's just being in control.

And if you're slightly off trajectory for too long, the end result is not going to be

the one you want.

So we're just slightly off for the whole duration of a certain amount of time.

And that's...

Not a problem for a lot of people, but it becomes a little bit of a problem if you're trying to be at the top of your game and there's money at stake and yeah you're trying to win big shows and you feel like you can if you get it right

you know

is there ever a time or a show that you feel like you just peaked your absolute best like your personal best package

i wouldn't say i peaked my best but like when i did the arnold classic uk 2022

like i peaked well because i don't think i was in the best shape but my my peak was really good and a lot of people had me winning that

andrew jack won that and patrick johnson got second and a lot of people like how the fuck did James not win that?

Because

I was good at that show.

Yeah.

But Andrew's Andrew.

But yeah, anyway, that was a decent, that all came together.

It was one-on-one, but it came together.

And then two weeks later, I won the tsunami.

So it kind of worked out anyway.

Do you remember what you did for that peak?

Like, what it peak week looked like?

I had nothing crazy at all, man.

It was really, I don't think I pulled water or anything.

Probably did a tiny bit of like a diazide and didn't pull any water and kept the food in.

I've got so many different logs of what I've done that I've kind of forgotten most of the things I've done because it all depends on how did I lead into that week.

Yeah.

You know, if the week was going a certain way,

if I was flat at the beginning of the week, or if I was full, am I pulling down or am I pushing up?

You know, for me, I think I need to push up but slower.

Like I have to take time, so I need to be ready like a few weeks out.

Okay.

Because I'm quite heavy.

I'm like probably, I could be close to 270 on stage, but it would take, yeah, it would take me having to like go from probably a suck down 265, three, 262 for like three weeks or so with increased calories to order to look my best.

But then it's getting it right, right?

So it's interesting.

It's always cool to hear because, like, for me, I mean, obviously, I'm a competing classic, so it's a little bit different.

But for my look, and I don't, you know, I mean, obviously the genetics just vary.

I find that I have to do almost like the opposite where like the more

get really sucked down.

Yeah.

I have to suck down like pretty hard because like the moment I start, whenever I carve up too much, it's very easy for me to lose the depth of detail.

Yeah, yeah.

If that makes sense.

They just oversaturate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is unfortunately.

It's hard to get right.

It's hard to get right.

It's not easy to get right because classic is all about hardness and detail.

Yeah.

Just fucking looking at Josema on stage.

I'm just like, what the fuck is that?

He's so killed.

He's ass.

I remember him doing that FIBO with us because we were at the ESM booth.

And I was like poking his bum.

I was like, there is no fat left on me.

And he was still like four or five weeks out then.

And he had no fat on his ass.

Oh, my God.

What the fuck?

He gets ready really early.

Okay.

Yeah.

He's a nice guy.

I like him.

That's cool.

That's cool.

Good bodybuilder.

I feel like there's something interesting too about.

I feel like a lot of the really cool physiques that get really shredded, they don't suck down too much, but they all have to get down pretty low to make weight.

And they get pretty shredded early.

He's hard as nails bro i've no i've never felt pair galutes like his

yeah like they're wild they're proper worn up there was no skin left it was crazy that's so it's wild he does his homework wherever he does his approach it works

yeah

um

i uh

i don't know if you mind me asking this question but i asked i discussed this with fuad and i discussed this with ian too so it's kind of just like a fun thing to discuss

But

I guess, what do you feel about Fuad

talking about finding like the sweet spot in terms terms of gear usage for you?

Like there's a specific sweet spot for your particulars.

I think there is for everybody.

I think

overconsumption of anything is problematic.

Especially like

you just don't want to go past the point of where you're yielding benefit.

Like it's just common sense.

You know, I always found when I did lower gear, like when I did like low trend, I got more avid than when I tried to do high.

I feel the same way.

So with trend specifically?

Physiques.

physiques need to be cortisol needs to be low low uh-huh you need to be able to sleep at night and you have to be rested otherwise everything else is just bullshit you don't burn fat you don't lose weight you don't get in shape so nothing's worth causing that imbalance in your hormones dumping more in the body is only going to elevate those hormones and then that's going to create issues so there is a sweet spot for everybody and the lower you can do the better

yeah 100

that's why like lower bodies look fresher like if you were in man, I remember when I used to prep on like 300 test prop, 300 trend nace and 300 master week.

And my physique had no issues at all.

It was fresh as fuck.

So if you could do that, then I would suggest doing that.

Not those numbers.

This is hypothetical, but what I mean is just like do less.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if you're making progress on less, stick to less.

When was that?

That.

Oh, that was all during my amateur years, like getting ready.

I won British titles on that shit.

Like, I turned pro on autologue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The only thing I changed, I obviously added a little bit of GH, maybe like three I used twice a day or two, I used twice a day.

Um, and then like the use of, let's say, uh,

uh, winny tabs or something like that.

So it was quite a load of gear, really.

It's very interesting that, um,

I'm just being transparent about this, but uh, my, my prep with Kyle at like right now, I'm about five weeks out, and my prep with Kyle at six weeks out had more gear, a total, a higher total gear usage than my prep with Patrick right now.

And

it's cool to see because I remember when I was with Kyle and doing this, people were asking, like, bro, what are you running?

Holy shit.

But I was like extremely full, but to the point where, like, I had so much veins popping that you couldn't really see the definition of my quads.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

For a classic physique, it was too saturated.

It didn't bring the best look for you.

Right.

Like, if I was.

I think super high testosterone and androgens androgens does that because if you look at natty bodybuilders, how peeled they get,

yeah, the separation is always really good.

And I think that's because they have like

slightly lower, you know,

way lower testosterone levels and whatnot.

So

it can cause an issue with blurring and detail, I think.

Yeah.

I remember boss Stefan talking about that too.

The whole like, you know, doing too high dosages and everything can kind of almost destroy physiques.

Well, because look at it again, it's

stress hormone response.

Your skin, your skin, yeah, is an organ.

And if your body's pissed off, your skin's going to show that.

And if your skin's holding a level of thickness to it, even though it's not body fat, but like inflammation,

that's probably because your liver and kidneys are going, you know what, I'm a bit pissed off.

Yeah.

So therefore, lower gear could actually be something that actually brings that inflammation down.

And therefore, you actually look better.

I'm a lot more detailed than I was right now than I was last year at the same week's outlet.

I'm also a a little bit leaner, but for sure, when it comes to the saturation from how much gear I'm taking,

I feel like this is a better fit for classic.

100%.

That makes sense.

I think people need to take note of that as well.

More isn't bad.

More.

That's something that I'm trying to kind of fight, honestly, with this podcast, give as much transparent talk as possible from real-ass bodybuilders.

Because, you know, like you look at clips, TikToks, or whatever, anything like in the comment section, there's so many people who like bodybuilding that are just saying like, bodybuilders are lying.

Like guys are taking five to 10 grams and like, you know what?

The only thing is they can say we're like, they can say we're lying.

It doesn't matter because we know what we're doing.

Right.

And we can live with that.

I can live with that.

I know what I do.

I micro-dose daily and it's a small amount.

You know,

I can do as little as like 20 to 25 whatever meeters of cremolone daily.

So then where's that over a course of a week?

I don't, I'm not fussed about.

fucking trying to impress anybody on the amount I take.

I don't care.

I've done higher.

Of course.

I've done like up to like 100 a day and it was awful.

awful so i was like i wouldn't do that again yeah i'm sure so right it's not worth it you didn't yield better results so it's not worth it i'm the same right now i'm doing like 14.5 or something whatever migs a day of trend which is 100 it's 100 your body can tolerate that because it's not it's not exceeding a certain amount

so it's also just it was also nice to hear like you know people like you or like john jewett or like even steve vigorsey discussing how like you like for the sake of like the benefits that you get from trend in the first place like the cortisol decrease and um the catabolism like you don't need more than 100 megs plus if you do more then you're probably going to increase that stress anyways yeah and then you're going backwards and the whole point of prep is not to go backwards to go forwards yeah so don't put yourself in a position where you make it hard for yourself

i think the one the one fucking stick on my ass that i just have about it though is like it

is

That I will hear kids like coming to me and saying like, oh, but like these guys said that you need to be taking more than three grams of gear.

who are these guys though have they ever been on the olympia stage yeah exactly it's like they haven't but it's like

because i've been on the olympia stage i've qualified for it three times like i've been on the arnold stage like a couple of times and i think that's enough to be able to at least

say this is enough gear to get there yeah

so it's just like and then you get someone be like yeah but you can't win a show or

well whatever dude like I did a show earlier in the year, Detroit Pro, and I placed third in a good lineup by William and Sasan.

like and that's someone who's i'm pretty average genetic and it was like 16 people in that show like i i i am in a position of at least enough authority to say less gear is okay don't worry i'm not saying i can tell you how to be mr olympia but i'm telling you you could be competitive as a pro and get to the olympia stage don't be just don't be an idiot you know yeah yeah for sure

what do you feel about um what do you feel about earth moving to open

i think it's good i think it's good he struggles to make weight so why not?

There's no point in putting himself through that.

Right, right.

And it could yield some difference in his physique and his balance because we've all got body parts.

We were saying this on the podcast I do with Justin

about how

certain body parts disappear when people push their weight down because it's the first thing to go.

Urs has obviously always had a problem trying to bring his arms up, but in the offseason, they're pretty credible.

So perhaps now that he doesn't have to cut such much weight, you'll notice full of limbs and that'll help him in general.

So it'll be a benefit.

And he's popular.

So he'll bring more eyes to the open class.

He can pose and he's a good character.

So it's only good for bodybuilding.

I'm really excited to see it, man, because it's just like that guy.

I feel like he just grows like a weed.

He's a big dude, bro.

He's a big dude.

He walks around like 270, something in good shape.

The dude's got glutes like shredded from like seven, eight weeks out.

And he's still in the 250s and shit.

So it's an injustice to his physique, really, that he's been dieting down and doing classic.

But I get it.

He done it.

He wanted to concrete at least once.

But but he's putting himself through something he doesn't need to put himself through because he could be very competitive open.

So we'll see.

And I think he's doing Italy, maybe, or something.

So we'll see what happens.

I'm stoked.

I'm fucking excited.

Yeah.

What do you feel about

the discussion over Mike Summerfield being classic?

I think he's very classic.

I do get like how you compare him to 212 because he's classic, but big.

Yeah.

So listen, he's classically thick set,

but he's still classic.

Right.

Because he's got the taper.

I feel like people are just getting a little confused just because you know um

the

federal they look at keon and they think he's got the same ratios as him but like keon is is a fresh new champion it's two times

i know same thing with same thing with like derek and they're just looking at that that crazy taper the derek taper the the the thing you know put i'm like this is a new thing like this is a new thing that a federation cracked down on like the waist size it doesn't like mike all of a sudden that's open mike's just very fortunate that he's got fuller muscle bellies than most people in that category.

That's just it.

He's got the same taper, but fuller, fuller, like formulous.

Yeah, some crazy fullness.

Yeah, so like quads and shit are massive.

But he's still classic.

You can't tell me he's not classic.

Right.

Other classic people would love to be as big as him and be able to make weight.

I mean, I think the big, the big primary thing that people like aimed for back then in the classic days was having freak proportions and keeping the tiniest waist possible.

Exactly.

You want everything to come off the middle.

The thing with Mike, he could be any category category if he wanted to.

It wouldn't matter what class he did.

He's a good bodybuilder.

And a good bodybuilder.

Would be a wild men's physique competitor, though.

The truth with someone that's a good bodybuilder is that they should be able to typically step into any class.

If you're like the ideal.

And because of his ratios, he is pretty ideal for anything.

If he was 212, you'd go wow.

If he was classic, go wow.

If he was open, you'd go wow.

It doesn't matter.

It's just that he's fortunate that he's got the ideal ratios for what most people want.

Like Keon, like I say, he has ideal ratios.

Yep.

So they're just fortunate that they're some of the best specimens of their nationalities on the stage.

There's not a white guy that's as full and around as Michael, and it's not a black guy as full and round as Keon.

They're just two of the best within those two demographics.

And then obviously, you've got guys like

I'm trying to think of his name.

There's that guy that did the last show.

I think he's, I don't know if he's Chinese, actually.

He didn't place that well in that Tampa, but he came came from 212 and he's really good.

Anyway, another guy, like I said, another walk of life, another nationality.

I like comparing all the different kinds of things.

I think the fun thing about bodybuilding is that it's open to all nationalities because then there's such a comparison and strengths of different physiques.

Like Barouz, for example, like he has all those strengths that the Iranian bodybuilders have.

Everyone has something different, and I like that.

It would be so boring if everybody was just like the same

palette,

you know?

Yeah.

Because you typically get these genetic components to different people that are like freaky.

Like, say, quadriceps, Asian guys, quadriceps are normally crazy, yeah.

Freaking branch, yeah, and then you got like black guys that typically have like the roundest muscle bellies, and then you get a white guy that gets like kind of dry, and like everyone's got something strong to give, and then it just comes down to on the day whose attributes weigh up the most, and then you get the anomalies, which are like the Michaels and the Keons, that are different nationalities, but they have similar strengths.

And that's why I say they're like the perfect bodybuilders, because they kind of got everybody's strengths no matter what nationality they are.

You know, they kind of cross across the whole board.

So, I see

they don't follow the typical attributes of their genetic, they are like ex they they exceed them, yeah, yeah, yeah,

it's fucking insane, honestly.

Yeah,

I do understand some people's like interests and having a specific look, but I think that just makes things, especially like doing the criteria and judging of bodybuilding, just more confusing, though.

Yeah, I feel like at the end of the day, I don't, I believe even criteria, but I almost don't.

I feel like if someone just looks fucking great, that they should win.

Yeah.

Like, I don't think it should be too specific.

Like, just on the day, man, like, and that's why, and I think for that as well, also means that there's, we get a nice variety of champions.

Because then so-and-so might win that day just because in that lineup, they just stood out.

You know, instead of this like consecutive winning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

At the end of the day, like, the show should just be judged there and then on the day.

And who looks best on that day is the winner.

And even even if you were mr olympia last year if the lineup's different and you look like you don't look as dominating in the new lineup then why why should you win

you know so

i like it to be very um open i'd like there to be more champions and more opportunity

so kind of like the arnold i feel like the arnold's more like that generally speaking i feel like there's been a few more champions because of that yeah They kind of didn't have a, they don't have a particular pick.

Like you have Kai Green, and then you have like a Branch Warren, and then you have

a Dennis Wolfe.

They're all very different, but they've all won it.

Because on the day they were there, they were the one person that looked the best.

You know?

Yeah.

I'm just thinking about the winners from the Arnold Classic, especially even the Classic the last few years, and how it's always so exciting.

Because there's always a new winner that shows up.

That's why I like it because you just never know.

You had Wesley one year, you get Mike another year.

You just don't know.

It's a fun show because because of that.

What do you feel like is the biggest mistake that you made back then?

The biggest mistake I've ever made in bodybuilding

is allowing emotion to dictate my choices

when

emotions are irrelevant when you're trying to be the best at something.

Do you feel like that's a lot harder when you started coaching yourself for your shows?

No, I think it's actually just harder.

i think it was always even with coaches like i've allowed my emotions to interfere interfere

and i shouldn't um because it's hard to

to tell the difference between emotion and knowledge sometimes emotional response sometimes you confuse for your knowledge or your wisdom because you think something's wrong but it's actually just an emotional response yeah

um so i'd rather just not think too much and the communication is the key and i've learned to be better at communication and that's what's old me and they give you a good result from you and your coach is how well you communicate i always like using that the the term from freaking um

spock and star trek like being emotionally compromised yeah it because it does compromise you emotion is never needed really when it comes to like this this kind of thing not when it comes to sensible decisions in bodybuilding it's just not needed it's all logic it should just be logic and what you see in front of you what needs to change what doesn't yeah

rather than oh i feel like this or i feel like that

that's why i've always like reminded myself that to remember that, um, to try to not be like super reactive, emotionally reactive.

It's the worst I was like, I was over that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was very like that.

And it's probably cost me a little bit of progress, if I'm honest,

over the years.

Is there, is there any specific situation where you remember this happening particularly?

When I first left Patrick, I kind of felt like we fucked up at the Olympia.

And I took it too personally.

And I couldn't communicate with him because I felt bad.

So I kind of just started doing my own thing, but I didn't want to communicate that.

So I abaused it.

And then it hurt him in the long run as a friend because I didn't speak.

And then we had a little bit of a quiet time for quite a long time.

But luckily, because we're mature enough and we let time pass, we got over it and we talk now and we're good friends.

And I've got a lot of love for him.

But I wish I didn't do that.

So it was a waste of time on my behalf.

And it was me being an idiot.

That's good advice, honestly.

Because I think a lot of us don't really like it.

It's almost hard to navigate those times and understand that that is what's happening.

Right.

Back of a show,

you're overthinking.

Everyone's in your ear saying what's best for you because everyone says that you know what's best for you.

Listening to too many chefs.

There's too many chefs in the kitchen.

And I should have just,

I should have let my heart determine what I was trying to say.

And I just didn't.

But I've learned to be different than that now.

And it takes someone who's doing so wrong to know that.

Yeah.

So I'll never do that again.

So there's some, there's some things I wanted to ask you about training also, but honestly, I saw in the Q ⁇ A that someone kind of asked a few of those questions anyway.

So, are you done to just jump to the QA real quick?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that.

I think we all want to ask you about training because we all want to be able to squat seven plates

once upon a time,

not with this arthritis.

Um, Beck Call asks, How important do you think trying to get freakishly strong is for building a physique?

Uh, very

important,

but within the confines of what movements movements will actually give back a bodybuilding physique.

Because if you're doing movements that don't necessarily yield bodybuilding result, non-isolated,

non-purposeful, then it's kind of energy going nowhere.

So get strong within the components of bodybuilding, you know, barbell rows, dumbbell presses.

There is no need to get strong at something that doesn't.

gravitate towards building the physique.

And there are a lot of exercises that

are that.

Majority, fortunately, fortunately, because our

library of exercises is bodybuilding and we don't know much else are okay because they're all bodybuilding.

So even a deadlift, like for us, it is a bodybuilding movement because we'll do it in a manner that is bodybuilding.

But yeah, just don't get carried away to the point where you're like, oh, I need to be able to Viking press fucking like 200 kilo above my head for like a rep because it's just not going to yield any result to bodybuilding.

Bodybuilding is a repetition game.

You know, there's a certain amount of stimulation required to cause hypertrophy and

you can get very carried away with just being able to lift something once or twice, but it's not going to yield a positive response from a physical standpoint in regards to your

proportion, your ratios.

You know, if something's causing all your energy to brace your core and you're only getting one rep above your head, it's probably far less effective for bodybuilding than sitting down on something that you can press over your head for 15 times.

So you just have to not get too married to the idea of

maximal output is better than output that is more catered towards bodybuilding.

Get strong within the bodybuilding movements.

How do you feel like

do you recommend somebody kind of just

how often would you say would you recommend someone hit like a lower rep range or would you recommend someone always try to focus on their strength specifically in like the rep range that's suitable for them in general?

The lowest anybody in bodybuilding really needs to go reps is as low as maybe six to eight.

but then I'd always follow it up with a set that is more along the lines of 10 to 15

because then you're not missing a trick you're getting stimulation from both aspects and again

what exercises are okay to do the lower rep range are very different than the ones that aren't you wouldn't do a six rep uh side lateral

so just you know think think about what you're trying to achieve here yeah

Don't waste energy on something that's not going to yield result to a bodybuilding physique.

You know, know, isolation is really huge part of bodybuilding and something Lee Haney and old advice used to focus on.

If you've got shit form doing a lateral race with 25 kilogram dumbbells, then there's no point doing it.

Do it with 12 kilo dumbbells and get good form.

So it's actually isolated.

Strength is relative and you can always build on the strength that you have.

Don't compare.

I think that's really well put.

I think I found, I mean, I think a lot of people honestly find this, even though like we want to kind of just jump to that old training style of a specific role model that we look at and be like, oh, this guy's training like

eight reps all the time.

And you've also got to see,

are those people good at bodybuilding?

Because a lot of the time they're not.

Bodybuilding and good training are two different things sometimes.

You know, the best bodybuilders in the world don't necessarily always post their sets and get blown and you get blown away by them.

And everyone goes, oh, yeah, but Ronnie.

But Ronnie won Mr.

Olympias before he was doing some crazy shit.

Like back in like 98, he was still doing behind the neck pull downs on a cable and seated rows on the cable.

He wasn't doing the barbell rows and the shit that you saw in the later videos.

And he was winning Mr.

Olympia, arguably looking better and cleaner and fresher.

Still lifting a good amount of weight, but form was much more specific.

And he wasn't as famous, therefore he didn't need to make the content.

Gotcha.

I see.

So you've got to understand that.

You know, he trains like a savage, yes.

And like Branch, I'm friends with Branch.

Branch trains like a savage, but his form is actually tight for what he is.

Like, the reps look the same as each other.

It's not as loose as people think.

Every rep looks the same.

It's just that it's his form.

You know, it's not, it's not, it's not a form that's not in control.

It's control, but aggression.

And that's another thing people need to try to be able to identify as well is those who can do that and those who can't.

Gotcha.

J-Rockfit asks, what's your favorite video games?

Resident Evil.

Anything Resident Evil.

I'm the massive resident evil fan nice um so i'm waiting for the new one requiem to come out next year there was gamescom the other night in germany in cologne and they were showing off traders and i'm very excited so but i've got a lot of games man i've got pc i've got every console i've got handheld consoles fucking switch to

i'm a neek when it comes to consoles i love them so i don't get much time to play them but i like to have them yeah yeah

I used to be such a crazy fucking gamer when I was younger and just I feel like doing content these days has made it so much harder yeah it's take the time like even though i just started doing some youtube again on my phone it means there's less time to do anything leisurely now yeah

um jacob bealy asks why doesn't james stream cod like he used to i enjoyed watching it it's just time time but i will like listen when the winter comes and i'm not like dieting and stuff there'll be time i'll be back on there because i do like playing um but it's just you've got to put your focuses where they need to be and right now the main goal is to bear my career

And what feeds my career is me doing what I'm doing right now.

Nazareth asks, will you try to increase muscle mass instead of improving your conditioning for the next season?

Both.

He's always trying to do both.

Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, I haven't actually reached the level of condition that's actually good enough in my opinion for a few years.

So the only way for me to get the muscle mass that's acceptable to put this condition to use is by building it on top of it with an off-season that's far more like rigid rigid

rigid and like uh regimented.

I have to get sucked down to get back up because

it's a combination, man.

Like, yeah, like I'm not as big as someone like Samson,

but I've also not presented a level of condition to stand out for a few years because standout condition can sometimes actually draw the eye.

So

I'll continue to try and work on both.

That's just my honest review on that.

What do you feel like is the best off-season that you've ever had?

Probably like 20.

Again, like I said, when I first turned pro 2017 into 2018, I put onto quite a lot of muscle because it was the first time I really applied myself to like almost DC training, but it was push-ball legs.

And that was probably when I really made a lot of gains.

But I always let myself, I think, get a little bit too fat.

So I'm looking forward to the next time I go into an off-season actually holding back a little bit and seeing what I can do.

I think a regimented off-season would be such a productive thing for me.

And I think at this point in your career, you need that.

What about what else did you change in that off-season from before?

Not a lot because I was just training less volume.

So I think all it is, it allowed for the calories I had to go further.

So I think the food, the food that I was eating was just going further.

So I was getting more out of it.

So I was growing because I wasn't burning for everything so much.

So you don't feel like you were eating more or taking higher dosages or anything?

No, not really.

No, I tampered with insulin and things like that before.

And insulin is something I don't even like using.

I actually don't use it now.

So, a lot of people think that the big guys use insulin, but a lot of them don't because you don't need it if you've got really good sensitivity.

Like, there's no point using insulin if your body's responsive and receptive to nutrients, right?

So, and I feel like it seems like a lot of co like

most I feel like most a lot of athletes and a lot of coaches also only really find a benefit to using insulin if you really have to bring up like a specific body part.

So, you're utilizing that.

The problem with insulin as well is that it's like it gives you like this buffer of extra weight and then the minute you like pull it that extra weight kind of deflates so it's it's temporary and it's just going to increase blood pressure so there's no point for me yeah because i'm already quite heavy so doing that and adding 10 pounds of bloat is just causing more issues on heart and kidneys and liver

so i try to avoid it at all costs unless it's been determined that i have to use it but it hasn't so

How many calories would you say that you eat in the off-season?

Consistently like six and a half thousand.

but but i don't move a lot in the offseason but that's something that's changed i'm i'm when i go into my next offseason i'm definitely going to keep a step count

okay gotcha yeah i'm just that just for the sake of cardiovascular health and and nutrient partitioning and just being healthier yeah

and activity so i don't turn into a depressed person

because honestly like not moving is sort of the easiest quickest way to feel like you're not living a good life Yeah,

totally agree with that, man.

I'm still like, I do a decent job of doing some cardio in the offseason, but man, I still need to improve that.

I think that's why steps is good.

I think steps is ideal because then you can just sprinkle it during the day.

Yeah.

I love the whole 10-minute walk post every meal, you know, just for nutrient partitioning.

And then also, oh, man, you knocked down.

It's also a good way to get out of the house, man.

Like, you need an excuse to get out of the house.

And sometimes if it's just as small as, okay, I've got to do steps and perfectly to get out and get some fresh air.

Yeah.

Lou Lucius Suisko asks, what is James' fertility protocol?

protocol?

Please explain.

I have none.

I didn't even have one, bro.

I just, my missus came off the pill within one month.

She was pregnant.

Damn.

I was mid-cycle.

I was taking mastarone and testosterone.

It's fucking epic.

There is no protocol.

It's just me and James.

Somehow it worked.

I have harder.

And I wouldn't even say it's like my blood work wouldn't reflect that I have like a high thingy because my SHB, like my sex binding hormone, wasn't high or anything.

Right.

It's just luck of the draw.

I think you have to have a really fertile woman.

Because there was no protocol.

I got asked that a lot after this happened.

And I was like, dude, I didn't do anything.

Honestly, it'd be like that sometimes.

Yeah.

And I'm glad because it meant that I've got a beautiful daughter now.

Congratulations on that, by the way.

Thank you, man.

She's incredible.

She is incredible.

Megerton asks, what's one of the best memories that you had with Luke Sando?

Probably private jet to the Arnold with him and Aaron Singerman, because we both laugh.

We literally got we got flown on a private jet to go to the Arnold, so it was pretty cool.

And we were just sitting and acting like a bunch of idiots, but it was a great time.

Aaron, Aaron actually gave us a really good career, man.

Like, I'm very grateful for the time I had at Redcom with Aaron and Luke.

So I owe a lot of love to Aaron now as well.

That's awesome.

Yeah, man.

So, Sor4V just says actual god of bodybuilding.

Very kind.

Thank you.

I appreciate you.

God bless you.

Fabio Canini asks

most high and low calories in the offseason and pre-contest.

Highest is pre.

Sorry.

Oh, and then he just also asks, what's your favorite compound?

Highest calorie is probably like 7,000.

Lowest is probably like 2,800 I've done.

Pretty low.

I would have been about 245, 250 on stage that year okay if i did those calories on the low it probably would have been like 2019 18.

um

and then uh

the favorite compound like honestly is testosterone because this is the basis of all yeah like just you know there's nothing without testosterone really so it's got time there's a time and place for it all the time almost unless you're not competing but use it in the offseason use it pre-contest it's always present It kind of keeps you

on a level, you know?

So, and the good thing about it is even testosterone when you're like running a bridge, like a really low, let's say 200 megs a week or something, you still feel pretty good.

Yeah.

So, I think it has its place.

I think it really does.

I think it's good for like antidepressant, good for like health markers and easily accessible.

And most of the time, testosterone is testosterone, so it's trustworthy.

It's one of the easier compounds to get your hands on.

Is there a secondary compound that you feel works best for you?

I think mastron is a compound for just like controlling E2 and stopping you from feeling like shit.

And a mascaron and anthe typically just because of the ester.

And that's probably my favorite too.

Those would be my two life.

I could only take two things that would be it.

Gotcha.

When it came to prep, obviously the coaches and I would always choose prop, but honestly, back in the day, whenever I was using an anthe, I always felt pretty decent on it.

And it was easy to do.

Right now I use an anthate test and mast right now i don't even use prop

so i don't really think it's that necessary to change over especially if you're microdosing and you're trying to hit a certain amount of milligrams why why why'd shoot more if you can shoot less yeah you know

an anthe's a 200 meg versus a 100 you might as well do less oil less trauma to the body less uh issues right

yeah i don't know how long it's been now maybe like four years or so but i've definitely i've been injecting every single day for maybe like four years or so and it's just easy to not forget isn't it because when you do this every other day or three days a week there's always some time where you're like did i or didn't i whereas if you just do it daily micro dose you can use an insulin pin hardly causes any issues on the body um you can backload them and they're cheap as chips to purchase easy to get easy to dispose of and you don't feel like a crackard because you're not stabbed you're not stabbing like this deep into your body and hurting everything

So, yeah, man, I think they're, I think microdosin is definitely the way for me.

And it's good for your blood work as well.

Like, keeps your blood, plasma levels and stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Nigel White asks, is it true that he has a foot fetish?

I like, you know, so what it is, it's not I have a foot fetish, but I don't disregard feet.

Like, if I think someone's got like nice lips, nice eyes, feet are just as important to me.

So it's like, it's not like, oh, feet are better than face, but they're on par.

Like, it's just as important.

Yeah.

Like a nice pair of feet and a nice pair of shoes, man, that goes a long way.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's not like I just don't look at that body part.

You know what I mean?

Imagine being so not into feet, you're not going to look.

No, no, I look.

So it's not a fetish because it's not like my primary drive.

Yeah.

But it's on par with every other body part.

Yeah.

Like, I like bums and I like boobs and I like the eyes and our lips.

I think I like the entire physique of a woman.

Carves, everything, you know?

So

everything gets love.

A man that appreciates.

We love that.

Absolutely.

Absolutely, bruv.

Honestly, I think

I never really paid too much attention to the feed until honestly, I started dating Lexi and

there's a reason there's feet, there's feet models on adverts, dude.

Yeah.

Big Al asks, are there better gyms in the US or the UK in general?

Both.

Globally, there's good gyms everywhere.

And it just comes down to you going to a gym and liking it.

I've got some good gyms in the US I love, like Metroflex, Plano, Destination, Dallas.

But in the other side of the America, like, you know, Connecticut, you've got the Super Gym, Bev's Powerhouse, and then Flex's Dragons Lair, but you've got like, there's loads of gyms that are good, man.

You just got to pick and choose what you like.

And then in the UK, we've got like

my friends Alpha and the on Darkside Gym.

We had like King's Gym, Croydon, I used to train in, Muscleworks Orpington.

So there's good gyms everywhere.

Even in Norway, I train in a little gym called Harold's Gym.

It's like my favorite gym.

That's dope.

So

checking out the gyms is always like going to like a sometimes I feel like I'd rather just go explore gyms than go to, what is it?

What is it called?

Like

roller coasters and shit.

Oh, theme park.

Like a theme park.

It's like going to a theme park.

We have a moment in our lives.

We've turned into a bit of a gym tour, like to do a little tour of gyms.

No matter, like any holiday I've been on, I've always come to try and find an old school gym and normally to some success.

But yeah, man.

You know, if you love gyms,

you're going to love a lot of gyms, but you're also going to dislike a lot of gyms because you have certain wants and like desires.

So,

yeah.

JCZ asks, so what's the biggest thing that you had to overcome in your bodybuilding career?

Um, just self-doubt,

self-doubt, still a thing that we all have.

There'll be forever, that'll be always something you have, and it comes and goes.

Feeling like you're worthy or not.

So, but that's that's a

continual training of the mind.

That's never going to go.

It takes action to feel differently, and it takes result to feel differently.

Not necessarily a win, but like a to see progress to feel differently and to be loved by others, like friends that are close to you, to say you did well, you know, things like that, Matt, and that's what helps carry you through.

What do you do whenever you're experiencing a lot of self-doubt?

Struggle, wallow, and then get pissed off of fit in such a way that then I start to take action.

Normally, I let it get to me at first, and then I turn it around by going to the gym and making change and saying, No more, no more.

I think I feel the same way.

Whenever I start feeling that, I'm kind of just,

I don't know how it's almost like it's related to my health.

Like, as long as if I'm on top of my sleep and I'm on top of my health, then it's a lot easier for me to get back on the horse and just be like, All right, I'm excited to fucking get better, if that makes sense.

Yeah, and it's in, it doesn't come immediately.

They say

you kind of got to go down to go up.

So that's fine.

So, rock bottom's not a bad place if you can get out of it because it does happen.

Yeah.

We've all had it.

That's what I always like to tell my homies and stuff because it's something that I had to remind myself every day, too, is just don't ever forget the rock bottom that you came from.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Because then you can see where you come from, and that's that's always going to give you quite a lot of motivation.

She smoke asks, how do you, how do you feel about the current lifting style of the science folks?

I don't don't pay any attention to it, dude, because I see benefit in every demographic.

Like, there'll be something I see that I think, yeah, and there'll be something that I have to think, no.

And I'll see that even in the same society and community as my own.

So I'm not that judgmental, if I'm honest.

I never paint everyone with the same brush.

I'm not like team this or team that.

That's why I don't really go on podcasts and get to like team this or team that, because there's merit to a lot of things, and there's also shit to a lot of things.

We can't pretend that we know everything and they can't pretend they know everything.

It's all about finding collectively the best ways.

You know, I was the guy that was back in the day, like, cable cuff laterals, you sure, but they're good.

But at the same time, I'm also the same guy that's like, yeah, you should squat.

So I'm open to many ideas.

And I think you should marry many ideas and not actually disclude everybody just because they're not the same as you.

I think there's merit to a lot of things.

And you only know if there's merit when you try it and if it feels effective.

So, yeah.

Be patient, try something.

And if you like it, then use it.

That's what makes bodybuilding so fun, in my opinion, is it's a lot of self-experimentation and us really discovering ourselves.

And if you're so concerned how you look when you train, then you're caring about everyone else again.

Like, yeah, if you do a movement that looks a bit funky, but it feels great for you, that's for you.

It's not for anyone else.

Just do it.

You know?

Yeah.

Switch off to the world and just fucking enjoy your training.

And if it means you're doing a cuff lateral weird angle, oh, well.

It doesn't matter.

You know?

If your shoulders shoulders are great it's good yeah yeah

max vanderberg asks um duration of blasts and health phases in general and then he says in parentheses yes blood work is key but approximately how long man my preps are pretty long especially as you become like more of a

attuned to doing pro shows because you could do preps for like 20 25 weeks and you're gonna not have much time to like down regulate you know

so really it's just making sure that when you come off the back of a prep that you try to match that time with maybe a little bit of the opposite, you know, dropping that testosterone for eight to 12 weeks down to like 200, drop all the other compounds apart from maybe a little bit of GH.

Um, I always try to at least get like a clear out after

with just some testosterone in there, like baseline.

And the length of that is just determining on how my body's feeling.

Generally, you can't really say, oh, yeah, you should do this for 10 weeks.

Because again, you need to keep an eye on blood work and also how you feel.

Because if you feel good and you're only running like 150, 200 tests hip a week or something, extend it.

So there is no set principle, but cycles can be long because obviously if you're doing multiple shows a year,

it's hard.

And then obviously if you qualify for the Olympia and let's say you can, is it worth coming off for like or going down for four weeks in between?

It is, definitely.

Take what you can.

If you've got a four-week period where you could drop the testosterone down to like 200 before you get into your prep for the second show, it is worth doing if you can, because it's still going to negate some issues.

Your retention is going to drop a little bit.

You're going to decrease blood pressure, feel a little bit better.

Also, maybe build a little bit of responsiveness back.

And plus, you don't have to jab so much.

So physically, it's actually less trauma.

So you take what you can.

You have to just take what you can.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Abraham Conquesso asks

the transition becoming a father and balance pro pro and balance pro bodybuilding but also support um janaki with baby postpartum yeah yannika's my missus so it's kind of odd so my bad

in all honesty i don't do much at the minute because yannika's so

needed by her because she's breastfeeding

so there's not a lot i can do apart from swing her to stop her crying And my job is my job.

It kind of comes first.

I'm providing no one else is working in the household.

So it's me working.

So I'm very adamant that I need to keep working hard.

And that Yannika is very understanding of that.

There's probably dads out there that would be even more cuddly and cutesy than me.

But my time will come.

But right now, I am super focused on providing the future for Haley.

So I do what I can.

Am I the best?

Probably not.

But I love her and I love Yannika and I'm here to provide for them both.

And Yannika's an exceptional mum.

So therefore.

I'm just continuing to do what I do and have my purpose so that I can give them a good future.

Because I'm I'm like, you know what?

She understands I'm here now, but she'll need to understand more when she gets a little bit older.

So I'd rather try and get everything into place so that I can be even more present when the time comes that she notices it more.

So that's how my brain works.

I feel like I have a lot to learn to that because

I don't know.

I've just been paying a lot of attention to family life in general because I think it's something that I didn't really have.

I'm the best situation going on as a kid.

So there's just like a lot that I have to learn because because I really want to.

Obviously, I want my child's childhood to be completely different than mine.

The thing is, you will just be different automatically because you've

already said to yourself that you want to be, so your actions will reflect that.

You know, that's just the way it is.

It's in your code now.

So, when the time comes, you'll notice

it'll happen automatically.

Trey, Trey Lydiat asks,

What did your PED usage look like in your earlier competitive days?

Man, like I said, sample of that was like 300 of free compounds.

Typically prop, mast, trend, and then maybe a bit of wind scroll 50 mic a day, and then maybe four to six eye user gh a day.

A little bit of T3,

Clem Bureau, Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt, mate.

Basic as fuck.

I was like, I had one British titles on that.

What about the off-seasons, if you don't mind me asking?

Off-seasons,

typically probably just like 750 tests and then maybe like

300 MPP or something like that because I never got on with regular Nandorone.

So it was only a thousand pretty much milligram

for a long, long time.

I did even do orals.

I didn't like doing any anadrol or any of that shit or Debo.

Yeah, and I think these

kind of like

why it kind of hurt your GI track a little bit extra on the off-season when you're stuffing that much food.

Exactly.

So very basic, very basic.

And even now, my off-seasons aren't much more than that.

I don't really push off seasons hard.

I don't do many compounds at all.

They change, obviously, when I work with my friend and see what's what.

But

the last few have been literally like Masteron

and Testosterone and then maybe a little bit of

actually like little cycles of Anivar here and there.

I feel like that is...

Honestly, I feel like every pro, especially around this area or this level, like it all just kind of sounds the same, to be honest.

It all tiny tinkers based off of, you know, your genetic response.

Yep.

It is because you're just trying to, you've got to keep everything as healthy as possible so that you actually grow.

Paul, Paul Anid asks, does James have a daily mindfulness and journey journaling practice to foster introspection?

Not really, no.

I just have a lot of self-dialogue.

I'm a conversationalist with myself.

I think a lot and I talk a lot to myself and I do write down what I do.

Not necessarily what I feel, but I write down what I do and that helps.

And I speak to myself a lot.

I don't talk to anyone else as much as I talk to myself.

So everything is run by me first.

Honestly.

I like it.

Gareth asks, if you have a rest day after legs, do you drop the calories on that day or keep the same for recovery?

No, my rest day is always the same.

Well, my rest day calories are different on my training day.

So therefore, they are a little bit less in general.

So I would still, I like to have the variant of rest day versus training day calories.

Same.

Personally.

Yeah.

Pastor Pathew asks, why do you use T3 in the offseason?

I noticed Chad and Hanny do this too.

I haven't actually for the last few.

That might have been something I used to do.

Normally T4 a little bit of, just because the

growth hormone is normally present.

So I like to use a little bit because you get a little bit of downregulation on the thyroid.

So like maybe 100 micrograms of T4 seems to be able to offset that slightly for me.

If even I do that.

So sometimes I don't even do that.

Mine's a little bit unrelated, but because it's more of a genetic thing.

I actually like went home, decided to go visit my parents for Christmas

when, I don't know if it was last year, and I saw a bottle of thyroid prescribed to my mom.

And I'm like, damn, I fucking did not know that.

Yeah, a lot of people have hypothyroid.

Yeah, so many people do.

You don't realize.

Right.

Very, very common.

Very common.

It's just funny because like I was, I was running into those issues a few years back and I was wondering, like, is it just my diet or what?

And I would try to increase my calories slowly, reverse diet to try to improve it, and it would hardly improve.

Now that I see that, it's in my genetics.

It's in the genes.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

So the armor thyroid has been kind of just nice, you know, nice to have in the offseason.

Don't really have to worry too much.

And it's, it's, you know, 60,

what, 60 milligrams of armor thyroid is like a low dose of T3 and D4 if it's in

the thyroid?

Yeah, it's a blend.

So it's nice.

You get a little bit of conversion as well from the T4 and then you get the actual direct from the T3.

Do you, Timmy asks,

bodybuilding, in terms of bodybuilding, how is Norway compared to the UK?

I love it.

Obviously, the only thing here is that

the supplements are class A.

So no supplements, guys.

But the gym's great.

And the environment's great.

So, and Ia sends some of my products to me.

So it's fine.

So I've got everything i need man the food's better

the water's better

the sun is better like everything's just bounce the air is bounced the bodybuilding's better this is the best place to bodybuilding for me short answer on that one that's always the best yeah

Vigorous Steve was telling me, like, so I've been going to, I've been going to therapy for the last year just because I, I just felt like it was long overdue and there was just things that I need to address.

And just like you, and I talked about earlier, how like those memories are sometimes just like blocked off by like some kind of like doorway or something.

And it takes like this effort to enter it right

and um it's been extremely constructive in ways that like you know obviously i didn't really imagine and steve also just said like you know maybe also try traveling because that was hot if you get around and see some things that open your eyes a little bit it can change your whole outlook and it can also introduce you to ideas maybe you can take home with you

you know some things are not actually necessarily about the place but what you see there is something that you realize and you take back to where you are

ways of living ways of being, behavior.

Yeah.

You know?

From kind of like a smaller scale, I think that's also why I'm like, I was really thankful for my parents taking me to the Philippines when I was younger because, you know, it's just so thoroughly world country and the rest of our relatives.

It's

easy to see my mom's state of a lack of abundance because of the culture.

That's a good thing because it's too much, we got too much greed and

accessibility in the rest of the world.

So it makes us not appreciate

the minimal like kind of way of being, and that less is more.

And the valuable things aren't necessarily

the items.

They're the people or the spaces.

This is the last QA, but, and you don't have to answer this, obviously, if you don't feel comfortable or if this isn't something that you want to do.

Oh, I mean, I don't mind answering anything.

I'm an open book.

Rod Rod X085 asks, what happened between you and Jordan Peters?

So me and Jordan fell out.

Just bad communication on both paths.

We're both as bad as each other on this one.

It's kind of a long story, really, but

just

we didn't behave as we should.

We should have been more mature.

I got pissed off with a response from him and then acted without really

stating

why I'd already made a decision.

Everything that happened between us is just lack of communication and not sitting down and talking.

And that kind of stemmed from because when we did sit down and we did communicate, we would talk about subjects that weren't important, never the thing that was important, which is what we should have been dealing with.

And that's both of us that got that wrong.

And either of us can say, no, that's bullshit or that is right or wrong.

We sat down in rooms many times and there was things that we needed to fix and we didn't fix them.

So we're both to blame.

Gotcha.

And that's it, really.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's always hard sometimes in certain scenarios, though.

Well, because people are your friends and you try to avoid conflict or you try to avoid thing.

And I made the error of doing that.

And that's what said, sometimes you just got to say what you got to say and do what you got to do.

But

it is what it is.

And unfortunately, you know, it's, it is what it is.

But I don't have any ill will on anyone.

I just things have changed, you know, and they're not the same anymore.

So it is what it is.

Yeah.

I have one last question I ask everybody at the end of every podcast, but if you were to disappear from the world tomorrow and you had one message that you could send to the entire world today, what would the message be?

I think it'd just be as simple as

give a shit.

Like, give a shit about

those that you walk by.

Give a shit about the environment you live in.

Give a shit about

the rippling effect that you have on everything around you so that your actions can hurt or help.

So just be mindful in that all that you do, it has an effect, either positive or negative.

And if we all focus a little bit on

being more positive, then that ripple effect will,

it will essentially be so,

it will magnify and then it will allow for the places and spaces we live in to be better.

And I don't know, there's no particular way of being or doing to make that the case.

But if you just take a moment to be conscious of how you behave and what you say to people and your actions,

your volume, your demeanor, then the world can be a really pleasant place.

And I think the world can be such a pleasant place if we all just actually take a moment and don't be so reactive, as you say.

That's it, really.

Just make things nice for people, man.

There's never really a reason for violence.

There's never really a reason for hurt.

If you don't have to you don't have to want to engage, you can always not engage and just walk in the other direction.

Doesn't mean you have to have a war.

You know, you can live on two different territories and never see each other and live happily.

It doesn't mean you have to have a conflict.

You know, that's it, really.

I love that, dude.

Peace is important.

I think that's something that I learned from, as Sada had to be, like, my friends that passed away, even Joe Stetix before he left.

Bro is just always present and always caring and always like he was a very

friendly human being.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it matters.

It matters because then when you're not here anymore, then no one can say a bad word about you.

And if they do, then they didn't know you.

Yeah.

You know?

So, yeah, I think the theme, you know, from today that you get from me is that

I think caring and acting

with kindness is probably the most important thing that we can do as people.

That's it.

And I think you show that.

Thank you.

100%.

Appreciate that, brother.

Thanks for coming on the podcast, bro.

Anytime, man, honestly, it's a pleasure.

It's time for

me to cook some.

I've got some elk, which is obviously moose.

Nice.

Yeah, I've got some elk and some rice.

My last meal, actually, I've got in front of me is here, is I've got beef, well, steak, which is the elk, 200 grams of elk, 80 grams of jasmine rice, 50 grams of asparagus, and 66 grams of avocado.

And then I'm going to go to bed.

Fire.

Let's go.

Well, it was an honor, dude.

Um, anytime.

Sorry for keeping you, sorry for keeping you so long.

No, it's cool, man.

I appreciate it.

And uh, this, thank you to your listeners, and uh, thank you to you.

And uh, now we've got each other on social media, stay in touch and uh we'll catch up, man, for sure.

If I'm ever staying side, I'll come see you.

Thanks, bro.

I'd love that.

I would love that too.

If you need anything too, let me know.

I appreciate that, brother.

Don't be a stranger, and uh, God bless you, man, my friend.

You too, man.

All right, man.

You take care.

Catch you soon.

Bye, buddy.