The Guerrilla Chemist: Drugs, Peptides, & Supplements That Actually Work

Brian Moscow, the guerrilla chemist who has an MS in organic and biochemistry, a PhD student at Georgia Tech, and creates off-season and prep protocols and hormone optimization and posts various cited studies regarding EDs, peptides, substances in pre-workouts, supplements, and protein.

Before starting this podcast, I just wanted to say that ideating steroids for a full show is not widely accepted because it discounts the real work, which is the backbone of this sport, and unfortunately spreads that an unsafe chemical solution is all you need for results.

Both of these are an antithetical to society's understanding of the sport and while there will always be some that claim that PEDs are all you need, I would like to deliver an honest message of what is required for achieving top performance as well as the dangers associated with this route.

I received this comment from a user named Night Scarens.

But Just as a rock climber, the athletes undergoing this path in the sport are willing to put their life on the line for their passion, just Just the danger between the two sports is different.

Luckily, we do have safety nets in the sport, such as organ imaging and regular blood work.

But that doesn't change the high risk one must accept in taking on this competitive lifestyle.

I think everything's good.

I'm using these earphones that I got for my Delta flight, so

I think they're going to work just fine.

So that's why I always have two pairs of earphones.

I have one headphone I use for the mic, and then I have one for the

one for you.

Yeah.

And

I don't know.

It's just the mic audio going through the normal audio interface for the podcast is just so much nicer than hooking up a mic to the computer directly for the ones that I've been experimenting with.

So I just keep doing the exact same thing.

Yeah, whatever works.

I'm trying to figure out a podcast thing.

Like, I have an idea.

called

science without an agenda that I want to do because you know how like right now there's such an agenda to like to like falsify science.

I just want to throw out information like

shit that we've been lied about, shit that

was not published or were

paid to do,

and then what's real.

Because I think people trust me enough to know what's fucking real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that would be awesome.

I think it's kind of crazy how much is going on there.

Did you?

Did you even see that tiny little clip of Andrew Huberman being used for the Jawser size ad?

No, I didn't.

I followed him, but I didn't see that.

He got paid to push something now.

No, I don't know if he was paid for it, but I think Jawser's eyes used a clip of Andrew Huberman

discussing

some things regarding the benefits to, I guess, maybe gnawing on shit or something.

Something related to Jawsercy that helped promote the product.

So there's a lot of that going on.

That there's a lot of GLP1 promotions and marketing going on dude we can talk about glp1s because glp3 is the one you need to go with oh yeah yeah i don't know anything about glp3 glp3 hits three different receptors uh in your for insulin and stuff and it doesn't cause the muscle loss like glp1s cause like 50 50 muscle loss to fat loss and this and then can cause permanent blindness and uh i just read this study yesterday it's what is the

retitaride?

I think it's called Rediteride.

Oh, Redituide.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the one.

That's a GLP3.

And

as far as like safety,

they lost more weight and they're just safer.

So I literally just read this study yesterday because I'm trying to put as much content.

And

I know people don't really know too much about it.

I know a little bit about that.

I didn't realize it was a GLP or it was classified as a GLP3.

Is Terzepatide classified as a glp2 or something or is it still glp1 i don't know what that looks like ozempic is the z the glp1 yeah because it only hits the um glucacon uh like

insulin or uh protein right so this one hits two others which is why i call it glp3 i don't know if they do make a glp2 wouldn't surprise me if they did okay yeah but this is the one that's that you could buy on peptide sites and stuff like that so that makes sense okay so i know trzepatide i think hits i think trisepatide's in the middle of those two so I think it hits two I guess whereas reditrutide hits three and from what I know about it I've seen some of the

I've seen a little bit of the studies regarding the

I think the benefits that you said where there seems to be a greater percentage there seems to be the tiniest increase in body weight loss over like a I don't know if it was a 26 week period or something.

I saw a 48 week study.

Okay, maybe that was what it was.

Yeah.

And then

slightly,

slightly better body composition.

I've also heard though anecdotally that it tends to quiet the food noise less than terzepatide.

So

I took one shot of

semaglutide and I was full for hours and I was like, I fucking hate this.

And then I did a lot more research on it.

And then I saw the blindness thing.

I was like, this is essentially causing your body to age.

It's like aging up everything in your system, you know, but through like vasoconstriction.

So like if you're, you're, you're, you're slowly killing off blood cells and your blood's getting, um, not being able to flow to the proper places, which is what caused the blindness.

So if it's doing that to your eyes, imagine, I would imagine it's doing it almost systemically.

So just imagine taking something, you're losing not only 50% of your body fat, but you're also losing muscle, which is like sarcopenia.

Yeah.

And then, and then you are not only that, but you're losing like blood flow to vital organs.

Like, who the fuck knows what can happen?

Yeah.

So

I'm interested in seeing some more human data on these newer ones coming out.

Let's kind of talk.

Like, I mean,

this is all stuff we could talk about.

I'm just, we're just bullshit.

Oh, yeah, bro.

We can talk about everything.

I'm down for it.

Do you think, though, we could try, is there any chance that we could try?

I don't know if this is your phone or anything that you're recording on, but could we change it to horizontal to no horizontal orientation?

Nice.

Yeah, this is way better.

Okay.

Cool.

It'll look a little bit more official.

Okay.

But yeah, no, I'm actually really surprised.

I didn't see any of that.

I didn't know about any of that.

So that's kind of surprising to me because you would think that it would help in some sense with longevity because of you know the benefits of insulin sensitivity and um I don't know I guess like the decreases in such glucose spikes but right but I mean there's so much that goes into like

you know

insulin is is good and bad right like it's the most anabolic hormone in your body so you need it to build muscle you know when you go keto you go super flat you know um carnivore diet it does help a lot with like your triglycerides and stuff like that so like, you, there's benefits to all these things, but like the main thing with

like a higher sugar diet would be like, you ever heard of type three diabetes?

They're trying to call it, where it's like, uh, your brain gets insulin resistant, which they think causes things like dementia, Alzheimer's, stuff like that.

Yeah.

And so, because your brain is so much better on ketones, and your brain uses over 20% of your calories you take a day.

Think about that.

So, like, if you're eating 2,000 calories a day, 400 of them are going straight to your brain without even, you know, doing anything just to run and function.

Right.

So, I don't know.

I think that

I don't do anything low carb unless I'm like, you know, trying to prep or whatever, but do something to shed a little bit.

But, or I'd rather eat more carbs and do more cardio personally.

But I take, I mean, you know, I invented Glycolog, which kind of like made this whole fucking GDA market essentially.

I'm not trying to,

you don't know me, well, I'm super, super humble, but I like, I do take pride in the things that I've done.

And like, there really was no GDA market before Glycolog.

Yeah, I am, I listened to your podcast way back with Derek also.

So I remember you guys discussing how there was maybe like one, I don't know if it was Blackstone Labs or something, previously, but Prime Nutrition.

Oh, prime nutrition, okay.

Yeah, which is owned by, was owned by Blackstone.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, that was my second product, but it was like my first big project.

I had like 37 papers on ingredients and

trying to find things that work in different mechanisms to do all that.

And then honestly, at the time, dihydroberine wasn't around, which I really like a lot.

So I put that in GDA when I made it for Chemix because I like berberine, excuse me, berberine obviously is amazing, but dihydroberberine has its own effects that are that hit different things downstream.

So you not only get the insulin sensitivity, but you get a lot of other chemical reactions in your body that express different genes to like turn on and off certain stuff like, so I like that compound a lot.

They're trying to call that the natural GLP-1 dihydroberberine.

Gotcha.

What do you think about berberine versus metformin?

Studies show they're pretty much the same.

The difference is the bioavailability of berberine.

So

when I used super berberine, which is it's basically berberine encased in

what's that stuff called clustered extrin and then sodium caprylate, which is just a fatty acid to increase absorption.

So that helps with the absorption of berberine versus just berberine HCL or something like that.

But then they've come out with other things.

I don't actually know, they haven't.

They've made more stuff for other compounds to increase bioavailability.

But

like

people have this misconception, like if you add black pepper extract, that's just this magical fucking thing that enhances viability for everything, but it doesn't do that.

It hits certain,

they're called p450 cytochromes, and those are the ones that it inhibits certain things from breaking down, but not everything.

And it just like pisses me off when people have no clue, and they just throw these in these formulas.

And I just like sit and laugh at it.

I was like, okay.

Or like estrogen or something like that.

They just throw that in there.

I'm not well versed in the supplement space, but I do.

I feel like I'm versed enough

in the fact that some of these supplement companies really love to throw a lot of ingredients in there sometimes that just don't seem to like

that like it.

I feel like sometimes they throw it in there for the sake of them being able to claim that that product is in there.

For label dressing, yeah, of course, right.

Um, and I remember you guys were discussing before, even um,

just

simple beta-alanine being put into a lot of products.

I feel like it was more of just like a mainstream thing for pre-workouts rather than like some

reason for some sort of efficacy there.

No, it takes 180 grams to build up enough carnosine in your system

to get a 20% increase in carnosine to block lactic acid.

So 180 grams is where they got the 6.4 grams a day times 28 days.

And then most companies cut that in half to 3.2 grams, which you need now for

double that.

So it's like taking it every day

for a little amount does nothing except make you tingle and itch.

And people like feeling things, so they think it's working.

And I think that I don't know, beta-aline to me is a huge scam.

There's so many better things.

Carbon, fucking sodium bicarbonate works a thousand times better,

and it works right away.

And it's what your bat, but your body naturally uses sodium bicarbonate to buffer or bicarbonate to buffer acid in this exact way.

What

I guess I don't know anything about sodium bicarbonate, especially

how is it beneficial for a pre-workout supplement

so it so the bicarbonate is um

hydrogen and then co3 so that's the bicarbonate i anion and then the sodium is just to hold it because normally carbonic acid has two protons so what it does is the the carbon the oxygens that are on the carbon

bind with a proton from lactic acid to reduce the acidity.

And then once it makes that carbonic acid, it immediately goes to

water and CO2 in your body.

So

you're naturally buffering acid in your body.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Okay.

Well,

I think there's a

My

I'm trying to think about where I want to go first because there's like so many things I want to talk to you about.

And if I talk to you about supplements, it'll probably probably be like six hours because I know nothing about supplements.

Okay, so you want to do more of the drug stuff?

I mean, honestly, everything, but I mean, I just wanted to say first that like I really love all the studies that you post on your on your page.

I feel like people like to talk about what studies say, but then they never actually cite the studies.

They never actually post the studies.

They never actually refer to the studies.

And I talked to someone recently, Dr.

Trevor Churistas, who really likes to focus on how a lot of studies are misread.

And a lot of people also like to, I think, cite the study that I can't remember what the name is for these studies because I'm brainfully, but basically the study that's like the pre, like the preliminary study that's like when I just

like the ones that are cited that are not the actual publication, but the reference that they use for the publication.

Is that the initial one where it's like they use like a control group of like five people or something instead of like the big control group?

And it's like just supposed to propose that like this theory could even be is even good to be tested.

Yeah, for like proof of concept yeah they do a very small like n equals five n equals six something like that and then the actual study is the bigger one with you know n equals 200 or a thousand or whatever right and then people just a lot of people will tend to cite the one that's just like n equals five yeah which is not a great data set yeah yeah you know like you can't really gain much from that

but um

I'm glad that you post all that stuff because that's every time I read your things, like it's always new information for me, especially the freaking ejaculating 21 times a month that lowers prostate cancer.

It was kind of crazy.

I said that to my girl.

I thought it was listening.

I thought that was a funny story.

I thought people would just kind of get a kick out of it.

But, like, you know, people worry about prostate cancer.

I'm 44, so like, that's a thing for me

to get like prostate exams.

So when I read that, I was like, 21 times a month.

Okay.

I either got to get a new girlfriend or Lube or something to get those

shit um

uh i also really like that you like pose a lot of uh natural alternatives to drugs especially the drugs such as like amphetamines and ssris

uh i think saffron you talked yeah yeah i think everyone honestly should follow your page if they're interested in learning about possibilities based on these studies because I uh I just know that there's I've experienced myself and I know a lot of close friends of mine and

that have dependencies on these drugs.

And obviously they all have some sort of side effects that vary per person, but there's always something, right?

And something that really, I think, lowers significantly one's quality of life, if not now, over time.

So yeah, these natural remedies sound promising.

Yeah, there's, I mean, almost every pharmaceutical is based on something natural, right?

So like, morphine was from opium and then from morphine, you get oxycodone, hydrocodone, heroin, like all these other things, chemically altered, but they all came from morphine, which is the natural occurring substance.

So I think that somewhere in some random

like fruit or root or whatever, there's something naturally that could do this because humans have been doing this for thousands of years.

Eastern medicine has been like ahead of the curve.

They didn't know what was doing it.

They just know that if you ate this fruit, you know, it could, you know, make you, it's an aphrodisiac or it could lower blood glucose levels or whatever the thing they're doing.

There's something in there that's working.

And so almost all pharmaceuticals come from some natural place.

And then, as a chemist, what you do is you take what the natural compound is, you see how it binds to the receptor, and then you see if you can make it bind more tightly or activate it better or extend its half-life by

derivatizing derivatizing and changing like atoms or adding things like adding esters onto testosterone.

That's just a chemical way to change the half-life.

So I think that's what chemists do is

find something natural and then make it hopefully better.

But anytime you do that, there's always going to be some consequence from it.

Would you say there's ever any benefit to

changing the esters of a compound aside from the fact that it's

in and out of your system quicker?

Solubility for one.

Some compounds just aren't super soluble in oil, like as far as concentration.

So like certain,

I know like primobolin loses solubility.

You have to start adding a lot of like

the BA to it or something else to keep it in solution.

A lot of there are some salt there there are some compounds that just will just crash out of the oil because that either the ester is too long or it's too it has too much

non or too much polar parts of the ester, like which is not normally not the case, but like that that would be like the only reason is for solubility.

So you don't like get a lot because you don't have to add a lot of like benzyl alcohol or something that makes it hurt.

Okay.

Gotcha.

I remember hearing people the bro science of like changing esters because certain esters work better and that you should like switch between esters because it might help some kind of I don't know

reduction in tolerance or something or efficacy of changing esters.

I don't know.

I just remember hearing that in the past or in forms and I'd always be like, I feel like this doesn't make any sense.

No, the enzyme esterase cleaves the ester.

It's just a matter of how long the ester is to break down in the body and then

when

it can cleave off.

But yeah,

there's no benefit for as far as tolerance goes, if that's what you mean.

No, there's nothing like that.

Yeah.

So, what got you started, I guess, in the bodybuilding space in the first place?

I know that you competed a few times, especially

years and years.

Starting at the age of 25.

Yeah.

So, yeah, in 2005, I did a show in Orlando.

That's where I was living at the time.

I was going to UCF.

And

that got me into

understanding, like, under that, you have to use these drugs.

And I love the sport.

And I was like, okay, I get it.

I want to try and figure out safe ways to do this.

So then I started really reading about as much as I could about the chemistry stuff.

And, you know, Patrick Arnold, obviously, the king of pro hormones and all that stuff.

So I was really into following his stuff.

And then I was just so curious on, I mean even before competing just curious on how if you take like a Tylenol your headache goes away or so I was just curious on what's going on in your body so after competing and learning like what these drugs are doing it just got me into chemistry in all aspects and then in 07 is when I went back to school for chemistry specifically because I was so interested in it Okay, I was wondering which one came first, the bodybuilding or the chemistry?

No,

it was the working out And like, you know,

if we're going back to like the early 2000s and like what creatine and all these things were big as like supplements, I was like, well, what is it doing?

Like, you know, people are just, oh, yeah, you'll, you know, you get stronger, you'll, you can gain muscle, but like, how?

So I was always like, my mind works that I need to understand how it's working in the body.

So that way I can rationalize why you're taking what you take.

Gotcha.

It's like a fundamental understanding of a mechanism, you really have to know chemistry because that's really all it is, you know, in biochemistry.

So,

yeah.

Did you, um,

how, how deep do you feel like you ever went into experimenting with yourself in the in the bodybuilding and competing space?

Deep as in like

how like high of doses or number of compounds or stuff like that or experimental shit like what do you mean by deep

yeah i i guess i mean all all of it because i think um i think normally

i don't know normally you get uh

i i feel like you get people that are a little bit more hesitant to experiment and uh start low and start slow but yeah i i i feel like I feel like you kind of went in a different direction where you ended up studying chemistry more and focusing more on,

I guess, this aspect.

And I don't know if your competing career was only like a couple years or so.

Yeah,

it was a point where, so this is like before men's physique, before

classic, all that stuff.

So it was just bodybuilding.

And so

I competed at 198,

and I,

which wasn't hard.

I walked around at like 220 normally, 225.

How tall are you?

5'9.

So I'm not like super tall or anything.

So

it got where, you know, you start off doing some basic stuff for test, like prep-wise, you know, like some sort of testosterone, some sort of anabolic Primo, which is, you know, at that time, not very easy to find and usually fake.

And like,

so you do these, these kind of things.

And then,

you know, to grow.

in a competitive space, you really, you know, they push a lot of drugs.

And there are coaches out there that just like push so much drugs.

And my coach was not big on these, like, if you, you can get away with this, it's more about like the work and

eating and all that stuff.

So

I never did anything crazy as far as, I think the highest dose I ever did for testosterone was like 600 competing.

And then

400 of DECA was the highest.

I had injectable Winstrel that was like 50 milligrams every other day, and then like trend later on, 50 milligrams every other day.

So it wasn't like these, whatever people are doing now.

But I didn't know the chemistry yet.

So now that, like, I understand pharmacology and half-lifes,

that that's why, like, if you see those protocols and stuff that I posted, the key is like how they overlap.

So instead of having something that, you know, takes seven days and then it's half of it's gone.

And then if you're taking something else, it's 14 days, like they're never actually overlapping, right?

So the area of synergy is kind of low.

So if you do things to promote daily androgen levels, that's a much better way, in my opinion, to build muscle because everything is now hitting at the same time.

So like if you take something, you know, for 10 or 12 days straight, the same ester, half of of that first shot you take, half of it's gone in, say, seven days.

That second shot now is another, half of that's gone another seven days later, but you're getting little incremental spikes every day that add up over time.

And then,

if your last shot is day 10 or day 12, that's another seven days.

So this just extends the whole life of, say, the test, an anthate or something.

And while you're doing that, then after those 10 days, you switch to something else, which now has a shorter half-life.

So now you're getting littler spikes under this larger spike that you have.

So in that sense, you're actually getting things hitting at the same time versus two compounds that have completely different half-lives and you're taking them, you know, the old school

same injection twice a week or something like that, like a deck of tests, which have completely different half-lives.

So to me, that didn't make sense.

So I just thought that if you can overlap everything, you're going to maximize your daily engine levels, which is going to maximize like how much muscle you can build.

And

it's a lot of pinning, but it's only you do this before,

so you go from longer to shorter to shorter, like throw an oral in the middle for a very short period of time to get even like a more area under the curve of synergy.

And then,

when you're done, after like, say, like eight weeks max, something like that, so before your body starts to ramp up cortisol and

it's like, okay, we need to get back to our homeostasis.

So we're trying to stop what you're doing, then you're, you're done.

And then you wait until those esters are kind of fading away.

And then you do a PCT.

And I found that that way works a lot better, in my opinion.

Gotcha.

Do you, I mean, I'm assuming that you end up injecting every day with that type type of protocol.

You do.

It sucks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You do.

So it's not something for like the week, but it's like, it's also very cost-effective.

So if you think about you're talking maybe like three or four bottles total of whatever you're doing instead of like a thousand milligrams a week a test, which is going to last you, you know, five shots or whatever.

or it's or it is five shots so that's like half a bottle in a week you're you're just doing 200 milligrams a day for 10 days.

So it's like, you know, a bottle right there.

And that's it.

And then you switch to something else.

And then you switch some usually go from like more androgenic to more anabolic to then like, if you're, if it's like a pre-contest, then to something like a trend or something that's more of the androgenic and anabolic.

And so by doing all of that, you're kind of getting the most out of the benefits of the different types of steroids there are.

Wow.

that's interesting as well.

I have some questions that I want to ask, but to be honest, I feel like my questions would be dumb because it's hard for me to even visualize this properly without, you know, like plotting it on a graph right now.

But I guess.

Where's that book?

Hold on.

Shit.

Give me a second.

This book,

Building the Perfect Beast,

is what got me the idea.

Like, this guy was way better.

Arthur L.

Reyes.

So, like, if I can, let me see if I can find find.

So, like, you have like things like this, right?

If you could see that,

you have different curves, right?

So, everything has a different half-life.

So, just imagine that when you do one shot here, and this is the half-life, you're doing another shot, you're like following the curve and just increasing

the spikes every single day.

And so, you're maximizing the area under the total curve of that, if that makes sense.

I see, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Would you, this is kind of more of like a devil's advocate question, but I mean, would you say that your,

I guess the ideas that you propose are a little bit more

tailored towards the belief that a person is trying to continuously PCT

and

instead of

natural testosterone, right, instead of staying on or committing to TRT?

So

if you're a pro bodybuilder, a lot of them don't come off.

A lot of them do cruise on tier G.

And people cruise on, like, I've seen people cruise on like 500 milligram tests plus something else, which is so ridiculous.

But

yeah, I do believe, especially after what I went through to try and get fertile, I strongly believe that, yes, you have to come off at a certain time.

And if you do a good PCT, you should be able to keep a lot of your gains.

You shouldn't crash hard, especially now with how easy it is to get things like HMG

and the N-clomaphene, which is basically just the active part of Clomid.

Clomid is they call it a racemic mixture.

Clomid has a 50 milligram Clomid tab has 25 milligrams of N-clomaphene and 25 milligrams of the Z version of N-clomaphene.

It's just the way that the molecules oriented in space.

So you're using, you're only getting half of the one that that actually works.

So N-comaphine is just skipping the middle part.

Right.

And a lot of drugs are racemic mixtures.

Adderall is one, for example.

It's a racemic mixture of,

they call it DNL, you can call it RNS.

Those are just chemistry terms to show how it's orientated in 3D space.

But the

some compounds that make a huge difference, right?

So like this is one molecule, this is the other.

They look exactly the same, but they're not superimposable, right?

So, like,

they're mirror images of each other, right?

They look the same, but in 3D space, they're not the same.

And some drugs that do this, and it's very cost-efficient to do this, and it's much harder to isolate a specific part, like the L versus the D or whatever.

But some drugs, I forget, I forgot the name, but the most famous one is the one that caused the flipper babies.

So, like, it was a racemic mixture of a compound and the active one worked for, I forget whatever disease it was, but the other, the other part of it caused the birth defects, severe birth defects, and that's why it was pulled off the market.

So the racemic mixture, while it's easier to make and synthesize in a lab at a mass, especially at the mass scale, it can bring along unwanted side effects.

or bind to something that you don't want it to bind to.

So

to all that, just to say back to N-clomaphene, that's just the active part.

So it's just hitting it especially harder than taking a normal Clomal tab.

Gotcha.

And it normally tends to have less side effects too than

normal clobin tab, too, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, there's not too many side effects from, you know, those two different, the ENZ, but the

N-clomaphene is just the active one.

So there's no real reason not to use it.

And then, you know, HMG is a follicle-stimulating hormone and

net-lutinizing hormone, which is HCG.

So it's both of those combined.

And follicle-stimulating hormone, as far as fertility and bringing up your sperm count, is what really like hammers home.

So if you're really trying to bring your natural levels up, you know, most people go to HCG.

That's the traditional thing.

But when it came down to me specifically,

I was not getting my sperm count up until my doctor gave me, it's called gonel, which is the pharmaceutical version of just a follicle stimulating hormone, which was crazy, crazy expensive.

And then my friend got me some HMG from a pharmac like an Indian pharmacy or something like that, but it was actual pharmaceutical.

And that's when everything changed.

Okay.

You had to use both the

pharmaceutical form of follicle stimulating hormone and then hmg for you to well no hmg has the same so the hmg has the same amount i think it's 75 iu of follicle stimulating hormone just like gonel did but gonel didn't have hcg in it and and so hmg is the combination of both hcg which is luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone so it's just okay it's just like a two-in-one thing that's why i think it was better

how come people i feel like i've heard i feel like I've heard people say use HCG and HMG.

You can, yeah, because there's so there's not a lot of HCG in there.

In the HMG gadget.

Right.

So the main part you want from the HMG is the follow-consuming hormone.

So yeah,

there is a reason to also use HCG

and N-clomaphene

to do the best synergistic effect to boost your levels back up.

So that way you're naturally producing testosterone and you get your sperm up and motility and things like that.

Does this mean that you guys have been successful now?

We are not together anymore, but

I'm sorry.

So, no, it's cool.

That's a whole nother story.

But, yeah, like it worked.

And I wound up

freezing some together

because, but here's the really cool thing.

And Derek actually brought this to my attention, and then I went to my fertility doctor with this suggestion.

So, think about this.

The feedback loop of testosterone shuts down lutonizing hormone, natural

lutonizing hormone, right?

But if you're artificially elevating luteinizing hormone,

then the feedback loop is kind of broken.

Same thing with follicle stimulating hormone.

Testosterone is lowering that, but if you're injecting synthetic follicle stimulating hormone, you can boost that back up while actually still being on a low dose of testosterone.

So my doctor,

my doctor put me on 100 milligrams because i can i came off everything and crashed and lost like 20 pounds and you know was mood like all the estrogen mood all that stuff so when i found this out and i was able to get back on testosterone and be on the hmg and the hdg like that was that was a game changer for me because i still had the the sex drive now and and it was still working because the feedback loop was now broken like uh because you're artificially stimulating both right yeah yeah um i remember that being a little bit of a a debate back then and also still discussion that's like i don't know it wasn't very consistent with i guess you could say hrt clinics or people that discuss fertilizer fertilization of how or fertility i guess how how you can upkeep your fertility whether or not you should come off of tests every time you use hcg um i've still heard some differing opinions on whether or not you just stay on hcg the entire time or year-round as you're on trt or if you want to cycle HCG.

But I can tell you, though,

I have anecdotes of people that have experimented with doing HCG while on their test cycle and have gotten someone pregnant.

Yeah, I mean, I posted a study about it.

There was a study done that showed that it works.

Low-dose HCG,

I think it was either every other day or daily, something like 500 IU or something like that,

kept your natural disaster like humming so that you weren't shut down completely.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

And so I think that that is something that if people go on the HRT route and they are planning on having kids or want to, then I think that is definitely a benefit to stay on the ACG while you're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

But if you don't want to have any scares for a small period of time, maybe just don't do it.

Yeah.

I mean, if you don't want any scares at all, take

trestolone or take S23.

Both of those.

Trestolone was invented as a male contraceptive.

That was the whole idea behind it because it decreased your sperm so much.

And so when I first read the paper on that,

Trestolone,

and why they came up with it and stuff, I was like, that's interesting.

Like a male birth control.

that also increases your sex drive because trestolone cannot bind to sex hormone binding golfin because of that seven methyl group.

So it's always active.

So, in my experience with trestolone personally,

the sex drive was always there, the muscle unions were always there.

So, you still wanted to have sex, you still wanted to work out, you still had the testosterone effects anabolically and endogenically, but you did not

zero sperm.

So, that's something that if you're, you know, trying not to, I mean, again, I don't recommend people taking these, but like if it was invented as a male birth control, so you are not, there, I've heard of like DECA babies and test babies and, you know, people on cycles getting girls pregnant, but I've, this is something that would 100% not.

And S23, that SARM, apparently, the same thing kills your sperm count, like to zero.

So gotcha.

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Do you still have the same

perspective on Lotus Arms that you did like a couple years ago?

Yeah, yeah.

I think they have their place.

There's been a lot of newer ones coming out and they

the best, okay, so let's go one,

oral bioavailability, right?

So great way to not have to shoot testosterone.

But

they're not there yet.

They're trying to make this perfect anabolic with no androgenic doesn't shut you down.

They're not there yet.

But low doses, because they are so

tightly bind to the androgen receptor that if you're occupying a lot of your angio receptors with SARMs, and if you're trying to use like

another compound with it, it might not bind because when it comes to competing for the same enzyme, the one that's going to bind tighter is going to win out.

And so the low-dose SARM is perfect because they do bind very, very tightly and they can mitigate some of the side effects.

You know, Osterine, for one, I think is the most like tried and true low dose that works without really completely shutting you down.

And when I say low dose, I mean like five to 10 milligrams a day.

LGD,

very strong, but you know, I think the studies were done on like one milligram.

And I've never seen a company make a one milligram.

I mean, remember when SARMs were in capsules, you couldn't control that.

They were like 10.

And that, and at that point, you're completely shutting down like glutenizing hormone and your HCl is going down, your triglycerides are going up.

So you're getting the same side effects you would from taking gear on these compounds that never made it to market.

So there's not like testosterone has like a 20-year study on it.

These don't.

You know, they were, these are all compounds that pharmaceuticals were abandoned, right?

So for one reason or another, whether it was safety, whether it was money, whether it was they're not marketable, whatever the case was, they were abandoned.

And so, people just brought them because they work and they do work.

But they don't have long-term studies, like at least we do have long-term studies on testosterone.

And so, we know what to expect.

And you could properly take, you know, over-the-counter supplements to mitigate things like blood pressure, triglycerides, things like that.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

I get a resurgence of the fake nattias.

That's the thing.

Like, what's natural?

I mean, that's people take all these SARMs and like natural.

It's like, there's zero thing natural about SARMs.

And I always thought it was funny that supplement, they were selling these as dietary supplement.

I mean, so back in when I was at Blackstone, right before I got there, they were selling SARMs.

Just like everyone was kind of selling them.

But I was like, people are selling these as a supplement, which is completely illegal because they are drugs.

So like, this is like, you know, pro hormones, the original prohormones, like andostine dioe andostine diol, those are naturally occurring.

So those fit the criteria of like the Deshea rules for a supplement.

Then when you start making like

one testosterone or methyl one testosterone, which was crazy strong, maybe one of the strongest oral anabolics ever, that is a chemical alteration.

So you are not going natural anymore.

You are not, this is a chemical now that you're taking.

This is a drug.

So it was just crazy that these were being sold as supplements, like over the counter, like widely.

And that kind of blew my mind.

So, you know, when I got the Blackstone, those were long gone.

And that was, I believe, one of the things they were getting in trouble for was the selling sarns, and they removed those.

So I wasn't there for that, but I do remember them selling

MK Ultra, which was, you know, the MK677.

And I forgot what their names were for Ostapure, maybe, whatever they were selling.

Yeah.

Wasn't GHB sold and sold as like a supplement and like

so.

I was, I, it was in the 90s, and I was like, like, you know, young in the 90s.

I wasn't 18 or anything like that.

So, but I've heard stories from, you know, my friends that were older that you were able to buy, what the fuck was it called?

Not blue night, blue nitro, maybe.

You go buy GHP as a supplement for growth hormone increase.

And then

all of a sudden,

you realize you get a buzz from it or you pass out or you go to jealous.

And then you have the scumbags who are like, who can't get laid and so they fucking put it in a girl's dream.

And then that's, you know, what happened.

And then they do bad things and those people should go to jail and die.

But like, yes, yes, it was sold as a supplement.

And I think it was called Blue Nitro.

I could be wrong, but I believe it was called Blue Nitro.

That's wild, bro.

And now, knowing how expensive like pharmaceutical GHB is these days,

sodium oxalate is the compound that is sold for

insomnia.

That is a prescription you can get under very, very, very difficult circumstances.

Yeah, super difficult.

To get prescription for sleep.

And because the, and the, the therapeutic index is so small.

It's so, I mean, if you think about when G was big, and I don't, I don't know how big it is anymore, but when I was in college, it was huge.

Uh, I used to have friends that walked around and had gallons of it, and you used to have to like put an X on the cap or something so that people didn't know it wasn't water.

Every time, every time, like, my friends that were in, like, were in a fraternity because we all, I was not in the fraternity, but I was friends with them because we all worked out together and we all were just like into the gym and stuff.

We, and we didn't want to drink, we

all did the GHB thing.

And every time I walked in that house to get a water, I had to shake the bottle to make sure it was just water and it wasn't a G.

But you never knew the concentration because people are making this at home.

So, like, you know, if I were to make it, I can make a quick calculation, like a basic Chem 1 calculation on how to make GHP GHP in like the right concert so you know exactly how much is in a dose.

But like in those days, it was like,

I don't know, try a cap and see how it works.

So, like, if you want to hear an anecdotal story, there's these guys that were in this fraternity had this G that was called,

what is

it was in an aquafina bottle and they called it something like because they went on a cruise with it And it was, it had a delayed response.

So they took it, and then nothing happened.

And they took the water and they like face planted in their dinner and like spaghetti and stuff on this cruise because

it was just delayed and it was super strong, but they didn't know it because usually it hits you in like, you know, 15, 20 minutes, start to do something after like 45 minutes, you're like, what's probably weak, and then you double that dose, and now you're like in a g-hole.

So it was super dumb and super super risky that none of us ever knew how pure it was, like how watered down it was or how not watered down it was.

Because GHV is a solid.

It's not a liquid.

It's a solid that you add water to to dilute, where GVL is a liquid.

So you take GVL, which is a liquid, you add sodium hydroxide, which is a solid.

It does the reaction.

It forms.

You evaporate

the rest of it, and you get a solid compound.

and that is pure GHG, which is what they give you as a prescription.

And then you, you measure out a dose that you're like, whatever the prescription dose is for sleep or whatever.

But nobody did that, everyone made it in a tub or whatever, and so you had no clue how strong something was.

Yeah, so and nobody did was testing anything back, like none of us knew how to do any of that stuff.

Like now they have fentanyl strips and you know, tests for Molly and all these things where you could see, like, how is this real?

Is it not real?

And, but you didn't have that back then.

So,

what, what do you think is the um,

I mean, how reasonable is it for like someone who has a prescription for GHB?

Like, is that I just

find it interesting that something that's been used as a recreational drug.

I don't know.

I mean, I guess this happens often where there's a lot of prescriptions for real uses for drugs that are also used recreationally.

But I guess like painkillers and stuff like that.

What would you say?

Like, are there, are there long-term, shouldn't there be long-term dangers of GHB use?

Or, I mean, does it do anything regarding your GABA receptors?

So, I think the main problem with anything that kind of hits your GABA receptors hard, like benzodiazepines do, which I take for sleep because I have insomnia and I've been on them since 2018.

So, I think the long term is they can cause early onset dementia or Alzheimer's or just memory loss in general.

Like

there are

things I know, I know for a fact I was much sharper four or five years ago than I am now, and it has to do with me taking these to go to sleep every night.

That doesn't have anything to do with the cholinergic system, does it?

No, this is no, it doesn't.

It's the complete opposite of your cold.

That's an excitory GABA is,

you know,

is the opposite.

But, you know, the substance,

how do you say it?

Dosinate.

Fucking...

Dulcamine.

Dulcamine sussinate?

What is it?

Dulcamine sulsinate.

Doxylamine succinate.

Have you heard of that?

It's a substance that's like...

It's in Nyquil, but it's also in sleep aids.

Oh, so it's anhistamine?

yeah

okay

like what i've known what i've heard about it is uh or at least what i've researched about it is it it's like

what's the term it's just it's not good for your uh cholinergic system so it can also lead to i think potential dementia or alzheimer's in the future if it's used daily or used for a very, very long period of time, maybe.

It could be.

I'm not familiar with that, like what type of antihistamine it is.

There's a couple of different ones that, like, a side effect of antihistamines is just drowsiness.

It's not, I don't, I don't believe it's directly hitting your GABA receptor.

This one may be.

I'm not familiar.

I have to see the structure of the compound to look at it.

But

I know that

taking the any, basically taking anything daily is really not good for you.

I believe in cycling everything if you can.

You know,

even with my sleeping meds, I have to cycle between different ones for them to keep working.

The structures are so similar, but then they, like, like I was talking about, you make, you change an add on, you add a methyl group, you, you add an oxygen, you do something so that it's slightly different for the effect.

So I've gone through so many.

that I found a combination of rotating ones so that they still work.

And even then, when they work, they don't like knock me out completely.

It's still a struggle to sleep.

But I think taking anything really daily that's, you know, besides stuff like food, like amino acids, things like that, like taking anything that has some sort of

purpose for, like you said, in your brain, I don't think is great.

I think cycling anything is the proper way to do stuff if you can.

Yeah, I've always felt the same way too about basically everything.

So I've always cycled everything,

everything, even though things, I know there's some things that people say, oh, you don't need to cycle this, or

I feel like I've seen stuff on like Lions Mane, them saying you don't really need to cycle Lions Mane, but I don't know.

I feel like I feel more,

I feel like I feel like a greater efficacy whenever I'm using it sparingly.

I mean, if you, I mean, take caffeine, right?

Caffeine is like probably the most widely used drug in the world.

And

caffeine, once you take a thing for like seven days or 10 days, it starts to,

you know, you start to get a tolerance for it.

So if you take a break, if you use it for like three weeks and then take a five to seven day break, you can reset how strong how

it binds, like how strongly it affects your adenosine receptors.

So, I mean,

back in the day, like pre-workouts never had more than like 200 or so.

And then people would like double scoop and 400 is like a crazy amount.

We're in like the early 2000s, whatever, late 2000s to 2010s.

Now everything has like four or five hundred milligrams of caffeine, which is, to me, is fucking crazy.

But

with lion's mane, specifically because it's doing, it's creating like BDNF, right?

If you can't, if you, your body has all these checks and balances.

So so if you at some point it's going to say,

we're going to stop doing this.

You're taking this for too long.

We're going to down-regulate your receptor so that

it's not going to be able to bind as well, or it's not going to be able to express the genes that it's supposed to do to get the desired effect.

I posted an example about

growth hormone versus IGF-1, right?

Growth hormone,

which converts into IGF-1, which is the anabolic part, right?

Your body will have some sort of checks and balance where it reaches a point where it will stop converting to IGF-1 because your levels are too high, and IGF-1 is linked to things like cancer and things like that.

So, if you take straight IGF-1,

you don't have that same checks and balances.

Your body is just getting the pure IGF-1, and that is a problem.

That's where you get major side effects like heart growth, cancer increases, or the chances of getting getting cancer increases, things like that.

So, your body does a pretty good job of regulating itself to some homeostasis level,

which is also why you get a tolerance to things because your receptors get so much.

So, let me backtrack.

Everything you put in your body, your body is trying to metabolize it and get rid of it, no matter what it is.

Whatever you're using it for.

So, it looks at everything as a foreign compound.

Let's break it down and get rid of it.

So if you're taking something all the time daily,

you will develop a tolerance for it because your body will increase the enzyme that breaks it down.

It will just upregulate

the production of whatever enzyme is breaking that compound down, which is why you need to increase your dose.

So then you start increasing doses of things, and then your body does this thing again.

So now you go from 10 milligrams to 20 to 30 to 40 to get the same desired effect.

And you see this with drugs all the time.

Like people who can take a 10 milligram Percocet and

feel nothing,

they need like 100 milligrams to feel something, where someone who's never taken opioid ever can take 10 milligrams and be in La La Land for hours.

It's just like your body is trying to break it down and get it out.

What would you say about drugs that people tend to take

consistently, such as like Telmiss Hardin.

I think that,

again, anything you take consistently, your body's trying to get rid of.

So,

no matter what the compound is, your body will find some way to up-regulate the enzymes that break it down.

So, I don't think, like I said, I really don't think anything should be used daily unless medically needed.

And even then, that's when you know you're going to get side effects from things like that.

So, gotcha.

Do you feel like

I feel like that's true, but sometimes I also feel like there's some kind of like plateau to?

I mean, I know this sounds like this sounds like a complete bro science, honestly, but sometimes I feel like there's like a an upper limit or like a margin where it's like it, it, your body, I think,

will

increase those enzymes to metabol to metabolize more of the drug.

But sometimes people end up at like this higher dosage that seems to work for them for longer.

Like, I feel like I've seen people who've, like, for example, had to start at 20 milligrams of telmasarin, and then they up to 40 milligrams, and then finally they're up to 80, but then the 80 worked for like a very, very, very long period of time or something, for example.

Yeah, I mean, that's yeah, you could, you can have certain compounds that do that, depending on how easily it gets broken down and

how

much your body will upregulate that.

Like, your body can upregulate certain to some degree.

There's always some point where it just can't, you know, and

to turn on genes to do that, you also need to make that the enzyme.

And to make enzymes, you need food and protein and amino acids because that's all enzymes are.

So,

if you don't, if say you're not giving your body enough food to make this enzyme, your body can tell you to make more all at once.

If it doesn't have the building blocks to it, then maybe it's not going to happen.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was always wondering, too, if that might be also a similar case for something like,

I don't know.

I always feel like gear is interesting to me.

Like, I feel like, I feel like as you run gear for a longer period of time, like, sometimes it's just not as effective, a dose isn't as effective as it was before.

But I also know some bodybuilders that feel like they've found a sweet spot.

I don't know.

What are your thoughts on that, I guess?

So

when it comes to gear,

if you start off at some low dose or some dose that you can grow off of,

at some point, it's going to not work as effectively if you've been on it too long

or if you've put on too much muscle because your body's going to ramp up cortisol.

Your body wants to be here.

Right at all times.

If you're taking gear now and you're gaining weight like this, your body's going to want to get back to here.

So the only way to do that is to break down muscle tissue.

So that will decrease it, which will cause you now that you'll need a higher dose to offset the effects of your body trying to bring your weight back down to homeostasis.

So if you walk around at 200 pounds,

you do some cycles, you do a cycle, and you get to like 215, but your body wants to be at 200, you know,

it's a constant battle between trying to stay anabolic versus, you know, your body trying to ramp up things to bring you back down to 200.

So that's why it takes a while to establish a new homeostasis.

But once you have been 215 for like a year, that's your new spot.

And so even if you stopped working out, your body would lose muscle and kind of gain fat to be around 215

because that's like your set point.

So for example, for me,

if I didn't work out for like three weeks or something,

or let's say, let's say when I was trying to get pregnant, right?

So, I come off testosterone, I come off everything.

I was in, I was around 230.

I dropped down to like 212-ish,

which is like my set point.

Like, I don't, my body is never going to go under that unless I just stop eating and whatever.

But, like, I get, you know, the, the, the weight, I lost the muscle, but I also increased my body fat from estrogen and all that stuff and not working out or not working out as hard and all of that stuff.

So my set point was around 215, and I'm not going to drop below that no matter what.

So I think it's all about homeostasis with gear.

And then,

you know, at some point,

you're not going to grow off 200 or 300 or milligrams anymore because your body is used to it.

And so you increase the dose, but you don't go from like three to six you go to three to four or four or like four to five but like

i i've seen people's first cycles where they start at like 500 milligrams it's like have you tried 300 milligrams can you can you do that and see how it works because it's like if you start taking morphine for headaches, Tylenol is not going to work anymore, right?

So

if you start at a higher dose and that's what your body's getting, when you try and go lower your body's not going to get the same results because like well i just had this much in me my levels were just sky high this is not giving me the same sky high levels i'm not going to grow like you're not going to be able to grow so again your body is pretty smart when it comes to stuff like that okay cool um

that aligns a lot with um Kurt also used the term homeostasis, even though I know there's a very, very small percentage of people that feel like the word homeostasis used in bodybuilding is a weird, is a weird term, but it makes all the sense and um it also aligns with i'm i'm working with coach patrick tour right now who is a keon pearson's coach and um

he has said the same thing about my bulking phase too where uh

he believes that growth uh growth spikes and is fastest after you finish prep when your body fat's at his lowest and obviously it you know plateaus slowly as time continues so after from his experience and his belief with, you know, working with all these monstrous fucking athletes, around after like six months of a bulk of continuous calorie surplus and obviously gear usage, you start not seeing very many muscle gains.

But he always tells, I'm sure his clients and me as well, he

he basically will send me messages of like, remember to focus on just continuously

training hard, at least maintaining your strength strength in these areas, focusing on your form and everything, continuing to eat the food and calories as every single week that passes by.

What we're doing now is we're making it so that your body is more used to holding this muscle mass and holding this weight.

Exactly.

So that by the time we do start cutting and we do start prep, it will be more difficult for your body to lose the muscle the longer you're holding this full mass.

Yes.

Yeah, I 100% agree with that.

You're building a new set point

for being whatever your weight is for the last six eight months you know that you've gone up and maintained and especially giving it the right amount of food and calories like let's forget the drugs for a second just having the right food and the training to maintain like you said your strength and your weight at that point for that long it will be much harder for your body to lose the muscle because it's used to carrying it now, like you just said.

So yeah,

I agree with your your coach on that for sure

um you also uh i heard you say this before i think but um you you still kind of believe that people should start like when they're first starting their their first cycle or gear for the first time that they should start at like a lower dose like 250 and then titrate up yeah oh like titrate up during the cycle or titrate up after like after like on our cycle i remember when you were talking about it that you believed I think you and Derek were both posing that like there's not really that much point in

blasting so much in your first cycle because if you can get the same benefits out of a lower dose, then you're also managing your side effects better and then leaving, like you're not ruining the potential, I guess, of the gains that you can make in the long run.

And you're actually just potentiating and like elongating that potential

by titrating up, I guess.

Yeah.

And starting lower.

I think.

If that was said right.

Yeah.

If it's like I was saying, if you start your cycle at like 250 or 300 milligrams a week, that's more than your body naturally produces.

So you're going to, and if you, especially if it's your first time ever, you're going to respond great.

So there's no need to take more because at some point when you do a cycle again or your third, you're going to have to take more

to get that same desired effect.

So if you are, if you're cycling up from like two to three to five to whatever,

you're going to potentially ruin ruin taking 700 milligrams a week for your cycle because you've already been there on your first one.

When that's like the point where you could take literally anything, and your body's gonna grow,

you know.

So,

I don't think there's any reason to take these high amounts of cycles if it's your

first, second, third cycle.

And I don't think you need to take multiple things on a first cycle.

I think if you just took 300 milligrams, you've never taken anything, you're 24 years old, whatever, you take 300 milligrams of testosterone a week, you're going to gain easily 10 pounds in the next 10 weeks or whatever you're doing.

So

why blow it on adding like all these other things that you should add later to increase your androgen levels so that you can put on muscle later?

Because at some point, there's a saturation level where you only have X amount of androgen receptors, period.

So, all of these compounds you're putting in, which are very slightly different in structure, are still binding to the same thing.

So, one thing you do, there has been studies shown is like when you do take testosterone, you do increase the number of anger receptors.

So,

but over time,

There's only going to be so many you have and if you're taking like five six things at once Some of it's not going to be be used at all because it's going to,

not all those things can bind to the same receptor at the same time.

You just have a limited number, period.

So you don't have an infinite number where you can just throw an infinite amount of drugs in and you'll just get bigger.

Right, right.

Yeah, that's a discussion I've been enjoying recently

since

I just like that I hear a consistency among the people I look up to that I speak with regarding the subject, like Dr.

Dean and you.

and I know Steve and Kurt like to talk with dr.

Dean on their own on on Steve's podcast a lot too but they seem to all reflect this idea that you're I mean like you know as you grow more muscle you increase the number of AR receptors and or your the amount of androgen receptors and

Like if you're like, I don't know, say that you're 150 pounds and you started your first cycle, like you're, you're probably more than saturated your androgen receptors

if you're taking a gram of test like you probably don't have to take a gram of test to saturate your androgen receptors and then probably the rest of that test might end up just going to side effects yeah because you're already fully saturated right so like one if it if it's not going to testosterone it's going to dht or it's going to estrogen and then you know you're just going to have side effects yeah so there's like like i said there's only so many that combine so you like you said you're fully saturated at like, say, this is your first cycle.

Say at five, you do 500 milligrams.

You're probably fully saturated at like 300 or 300, 400, something like that.

But then so the rest of this is, it's like pouring water into a full cup.

It's just going to spill over.

And the spillover are the side effects that we just talked about.

So there's no point, in my opinion.

That's why,

man, I don't really want to say this because I don't really want to target anything or trigger anyone or cause any really really upset emotional responses, but I just feel like this is a really good explanation for,

I guess, because I have a lot of, there's a lot of people younger than me that listen to this podcast.

And I guess I want to express that, like, I want these people to do well, you know, because then they can, you know, when they're successful in bodybuilding, they can talk about how they learned all this stuff from Donald's podcast.

Like, you know, if you don't want to be one of the guys that, you that end up being, I fucking hate saying this because I want to hurt anyone to go, but like end up being like 40 years old or even like 30 and they look like they don't have hardly any muscle mass, but you can see the side effects even physically along their whole body,

then maybe it is actually a good idea to really start at the lowest,

the minimal effective dose

and then titrate up as you grow bigger.

And that way you see the size gains, but hopefully you're not seeing as many of the side effects both internally and then also externally.

You know, you're not seeing as much of the hair loss, as much of the acne, as much of the, I don't know, hair drying out, skin drying, as much of the, I don't know, aging potentially.

Yeah.

So I mean, from DHT.

Yeah.

And also to that same point, like

you,

you, these are drugs that are not good for you, right?

Like, if we're really being honest with each other.

So you, you don't want to take massive amounts of drugs when you're younger, and then, like you said, you hit 40 or something, and now you have high cholesterol, you have heart problems, like left ventricle, hypertrophy, you have high cholesterol, blood, all of the negative things because of stuff you did in your 20s and 30s, which you know, it's cool.

You want to look good then, and some people have that mentality, like you know, whatever, I'll die big or huge, whatever, that's which is stupid.

But, um,

you know,

I'm like I said, I'm 44 now.

Yesterday I was 231.

I had rhabdo

three weeks ago, and

I just hit 240, which is like the high, almost the highest I've ever been as lean as I am.

And if I could stay, you know, between 230 and 240 at 44 years old, I'm happy.

Would I love to look like like uh like a J-colored size or you know like or Derek or somebody huge.

Yeah, absolutely.

But I'm not going to risk all that now at 44.

And

I wasn't willing to risk it when I was in my 20s and 30s either, because I knew that at some point everything's going to catch up to you.

So I think if you take smarter approaches to things,

then you can use the maximize the benefits of these, but not rely on them for the rest of your life.

Because some of these guys, like we talk about, never come off.

I'm sure you know, you're younger than me, and then your audience is way younger, I'm sure.

So I'm sure you guys know people that are 23, 24 that take like a thousand megs of trend a week or something crazy, which is, you know, pro-bodybuilders in the 90s and stuff that were pros and huge never took that much.

Like Dorian Yates openly talks about his gear, and he has no reason to lie.

So I kind of believe him when he was like, you know, you had real parabolin, it was 76.5 milligrams or whatever, 76 milligrams in a 1.5 milliliter.

And you took it three times a week, and that was it.

That was it.

And then you had a base of, I think you said like 500 of tests, and then maybe some stuff towards the end, but you didn't, he trained hard and ate and never missed a meal and all these things.

And now, with everyone's short attention span and like problems with dopamine from being on their phones every day or just wanting to get these results right away, which is great that you want to be bigger and stronger, but if you're not doing it the right way, you're just going to fuck up your internal organs and you're going to, you may look great now, but then in 20 years, what are you going to look like?

No one's going to fuck it.

No one's going to stay huge.

You can't.

It's not healthy, whether you're fat or muscular.

It's not good for your heart walking around that big.

Well, I think the opposing...

The opposing argument to the comment you made about Dorian is

regarding the cycles that kind of became public about like Chad Nichols giving some of his clients, such as like even, you know, like even Ronnie, I think the late 90s to the 2000s is when like those dosages of literally everything, right?

Gear, GH, insulin, became like sky high.

And I, I don't know why, but I feel like ever since then, I feel like people have been running with like the oh, pro bodybuilders should be taking grams and grams of like cycles, you know, and like at least a gram to two grams of tests or something.

I mean, I know tons of bodybuilders, the pros, um, um, that are on.

Like, I'm not going to name names of anyone, but I've known pros that have taken 5,000 milligrams of test a week, which is fucking crazy.

Yeah, that's fucking, I mean, you're, yeah, you're 300 pounds, but like 5,000 milligrams, and that's just one compound.

And then, you know, and then there's whatever else they're on, and orals or whatever.

Like, I think the total milligrams a week was close to 10,000 or 75, like something ridiculous where like that's going to kill you like at some point your body is just going to say fuck you i'm done your heart is just going to keep growing growing and and insulin you know like we talk about most anabolic hormone in your body great to use in a in in a certain capacity if you know what you're doing

but if you don't and and you don't happen to have glucose near you and you go into insulin shock or hypoglycemia, you die right then.

So it's like,

it's so dangerous.

And

if you know how to use it, it could be.

If you don't know what you're doing, for sure.

Yeah.

If you know how to use it, it could be an extremely potent tool.

At growth hormone,

from

the people that I've spoken to, the pros that used a lot, I've known anyone that uses somewhere between eight and 10.

Some people have used a full bottle of sterostem a day, which I think is 15 I use.

Like, I do think you need, you need more than like two to four I use.

I don't think that is going to do much at all.

Okay, so I should up my four IU dose.

I have personally tried growth twice, and I know for 100% fact this was real because it literally still had the script on it just kind of ripped off from a pharmacy, from an AIDS patient.

And so 100% knew it was real.

I was taking four IUs in the morning.

I think I was doing the five-day a week thing, or I might have been doing every other day.

But

compared like to on and off, I didn't see this crazy difference.

And I've spoken to a lot of pros over the years, and they say you got to hit like that 10 IU mark

really to like hit you with everything else you're doing.

So I just think if you're not using a lot of it, it's almost the cost benefit of it is just just not there for me because growth has become much cheaper you have this generic shit which who the fuck knows is it real is it not um unless you're getting you know for a fact it's real um

it's expensive i mean like yeah i think i think this the seristum i got i think costs like 500 bucks for the the six bottles of 18 i use of it so which is a lot of money when you could buy multiple bottles of gear and get better results so you're just increasing the cost of your cycle for what?

Maybe to get a little leaner.

Yeah, yeah,

the price to result doesn't seem so

like

if money is not an issue,

yes, it's something, it's a valuable tool.

Just like everything is a good, is a tool.

You just have to know how to use it.

And

another, while we're on this topic of growth hormone, I did post a study and I talked about this.

Taking it every other day was shown to have better benefits than taking it every day.

I saw that, but isn't that

fucked I fucked.

I forgot the study.

Wasn't that pertaining to like it was for child, it was for kids that need it was for kids that needed to grow, which is the purpose of why I get got it.

But the reason I said that is because what happened is

the levels stayed elevated longer after they stopped, and the levels

were the same

in both groups, taking every other day versus taking every day.

So they took the same amount in seven days.

It was just divided up either every other day or every day.

And so I think that the every other day

is a better way to go about it than every day.

You could still do,

excuse me, if you're doing four IUs a day.

for seven days, you just divide your 28 by four, I guess, three, and you get your every other day total and do that.

And I think that's one way to mitigate any possible side effects of it.

And I think of GH.

Yeah, and it's

water, water retention, blood pressure, that kind of stuff.

Yeah,

one of my smart friends who might have been spewing bro science, though, is saying that he thinks that that might be a potential good idea to also mitigate some of the insulin resistance

effects of GH.

just

like we talked about, your body's trying to get rid of everything you're putting in.

And because of that insulin-GH relationship, like they're antagonists of each other,

then I think that your friend is right where like your glucose spikes aren't going to be the same.

I think you'll be stable.

And I think stability is the key to mitigating side effects and to growth.

Not growth hormone, just growing in general.

Okay, stable levels throughout everything you do.

It's so interesting, though, too, because literally no one in the bodybuilding industry in terms of like pro-bodybuilding really does this though.

None of the coaches I know of

will

give their

pro-athletes every other day GH doses or anything.

So how many of these guys,

and yeah, they're top coaches.

So let's

Chris Isido, one of the best out there.

I've heard from multiple of his clients, he's he's he's not like a drug guy, that's not his thing.

He's got this eye, he knows exactly how to change someone's body.

Like, he sees you flex, he sees you pose.

He's like, Okay, we gotta change this, gotta change this.

But he's not a big drug guy, and I'm not gonna say what his cycles were and for whom, but I have seen what he has given people, and I know 25-year-olds that take more.

So he's, it, that's, it, his, that's not his big thing.

And then you have other guys who, um, you know, recently got out of the game that, you know, were big drug guys and, and, uh, and push things to the limits.

And, um,

I don't, I just don't think they know enough about it.

And, yeah.

You have, and then, and right now, you just, coaching just became a thing, you know, with, with social media, everyone who works out and has a decent physique is now a coach, despite not having a pro card, despite not winning national shows, whatever.

They just decide they're a coach.

And where do they get their information for gear?

Like what they use, what their friends use, forums.

Like, what do you know?

Do you know what you're talking about?

Or are you just doing

what you think?

is the right thing to do or are you doing like what some big-time coach does because I made this post a long long time ago, didn't name the coach's name, but it was like his exact cycle that people verified

that he's given people.

And one of the things that stood out, I don't remember everything, but I do remember 200 milligrams of oral Winstrawl a day.

200

on top of other orals that were there.

Halo was in there.

Don't remember the dose, but it was high.

Anavar was in there.

And then other compounds, which were at very high doses.

But I, the 200 milligrams of Winstraw a day just stood out to me, and I was like, This is what you're telling somebody to do.

Winstraw is not healthy as far as steroids go, it kills your HDL, right?

Very, very quickly.

Uh, so I don't think, I don't think Winstrall is this safe steroid to take for people as they think it is, because you know, just I remember you say that on Mark Bell's podcast, yeah, because the safe, the safe,

I mean,

bro science-wise,

when I first was introduced to it, you know, you think of safe as something that doesn't cause lots of water and tension.

Yeah, like something that's not going to

be an andadrol, right?

But you don't know the internal effects because nobody told you that, oh, your HDL is going to go to like 15 or something, which is crazy, like not healthy for you.

And your blood pressure is going to go way up.

And think about like transient blood pressure think so you're on all this gear your blood pressure is already elevated let's say you didn't take a pre-workout with a vaso in it just for an example now you're you know you're squatting 500 pounds you're benching 300 like the the pressure that that's putting on your blood pressure or on your body at that time is has to be astronomical And, you know, you, that's when you see like the nosebleeds on power electrons and stuff because their blood pressure is so high that you're breaking, you're literally breaking like blood vessels and capillaries because of the pressure is just too high from all the things they're doing and the amount of weight that they're trying to push.

So again, it's transient.

It's not like elevate all the time, but these drugs do elevate your blood pressure while you're on them for extended periods of time.

You're also the reason, by the way, that I started introducing Arjuna extract

to my supplement.

stack.

But yeah, anyways,

tangent.

But I need to run to to a restroom real quick.

But before I ask you, and before I also have some GH stuff, considering that we're talking about that now, that I'm curious about, but

regarding our conversation about the dosing that I think a lot of bodybuilders are doing, I think the one caveat to that, or I guess,

devil's advocate stance that I would have to take

is

the problem with, I think, some of these athletes that may be starting gear for the first time, or even maybe even the ones that have at least been doing it for a short time, but have titrated up in doses pretty high already.

I think the one difficulty here is like, you know, a lot of these people don't haven't had time to learn their body, right?

You know, it takes years of like, of like, you know,

hopefully like plotting data in some sort of sense so that you've discover some kind of um trends and figure out how your body responds to things properly.

But yeah,

I think it's just always hard to tell whether or not you are a fast or a slow metabolizer to these drugs.

Like,

you know, some, you just have some people that'll respond to like 200, 300 megs of tests, like some people respond to like 700 megs of tests.

And I think that's where it gets a little confusing.

It's like,

you know, where should someone end up?

Maybe they're going to be scared to get this high, but what if they don't respond well?

Or maybe even the opposite, right?

What if they want to go really hard and they blast this much, but they actually respond really well to like half the dose?

It's just like it's so hard.

Like, how do you tell?

I feel like the only way is to like look for the side effects, but then again, even the side effects are very per person, right?

Vary by genetics.

I think the, I mean, if you're not getting blood work done, you're just an idiot.

But like, if you collect blood work, you know, during before your cycle, during your cycle, after your cycle, you'll get an idea of like, okay, I was at 500 milligrams of testosterone.

This was my testosterone.

This was my free testosterone.

This was my estradiol.

This was my cholesterol.

You'll have an idea of when you were on it, how you responded, at least on a numbers base, right?

And then you also will have some, hopefully some log of your body weight and pictures of what you look like, right?

So if you have some sort of data, you can go off that.

And then, so like you, there's always going to be the outliers, the super responders, or you said like the non-responders, right?

So if you have the blood work, the blood work isn't lying.

So if you're a super responder and you're on 300 milligrams of testosterone and your total test is like 1100 nanograms per deciliter and your free testosterone is like in the 40s, you know that you're a super responder.

If you take 300 milligrams and that gets you to like

700, 800, maybe you need to go a little bit higher.

I feel like that would suck so much.

I mean,

that happens with, you know, any kind of drug, drug, really.

You know, there are people that have the respond very good, and then there are drugs that just don't work, which is why you see a doctor and they try you on something and like it's not working.

I mean, especially when we talked earlier about SSRIs, you know, those things are fucking like throwing darts at a

bar, a wall.

Like, who the fuck knows which one is going to work for you?

Yeah, exactly.

So it's crazy.

I think like data is as a scientist, data is key.

And if someone is really wanting to get into how their body responds, they have absolutely have to get blood work before, during, and after.

And then they have something to look at to say, okay, this is what I was taking.

This is where it got me.

The next time I do a cycle, if I want to try and get a little higher, I increase my dose maybe 100 milligrams, or I add a second compound, I get blood work again.

And okay, now my levels are here.

Okay, so now I know kind of what's going on.

And then you can also see side effect-wise.

here was my estrogen here was my uh good cholesterol here was my bad cholesterol here was my resting fast and glucose like all of these things that you actually has data points for then you can learn your body essentially kind of quickly like you don't need to you know put in the 10 years of work of guessing you can you literally can do this in a year and do like three or four cycles a year and get some good data to see like okay this is how i can respond i guess that is a good um argument for having a clinic behind your back, like as long as you're wary of any like marketing pushes that they're giving, you know, and just making sure you're choosing whatever you need to actually need to have.

But like,

because this idea,

right?

How do you read your blood work?

I mean, with AI, you could type in anything now and it will tell you exactly what to look for, like, biomarker-wise, right?

Like,

which is, it's getting so awesome and crazy at the same time.

But, like, literally, you could just Google what these things are, what the normal ranges are, what they do, and things like that.

Like, like when I had rhabdo, my CK, my creative kinase was like 35,000.

But I learned that having the muscle mass I have, my normal CK is almost 500, where like a normal person's is like 1 to 200.

So

when I got my blood work done after I had rhabdo and it came back at like 480 or something, I was like, okay, I knew from previously having rabbit, that's my set point

because I had data before to look at.

And so they weren't concerned that it was still elevated because they're like, no, that's what I want, that's what my normal is because I have so much muscle mass.

And I'm not saying I'm huge.

I'm just saying, like, that's just what it is.

Yeah.

So, I mean, what I was going to say is that Fuad proposed this point saying that he thinks he wishes that he had blood work and

places to get this done at back then,

you know, when he was bodybuilding in the 2000s and stuff.

You know, no one was really doing any of this.

No one was taking ancillaries or getting their blood work done at this point.

But he wishes he had that because his proposition was, you know, then he could aim to have a total test of, say, like 2,000, 3,000 nanograms per deciliter, and he would know, like, this is where I want to be in my cycle instead of just like experimenting with crazy ass doses, like 1.2 grams and then 2.4 grams to see if he'll get any more benefits from it.

He could actually just figure out like this is where I want to land.

But then I think,

I don't know if it was, I think it was Phil Viz who commented,

who commented like an argument back to it stating that he doesn't think that that would make any sense to aim for like the 2,000 nanogram per deciliter number because like that can't dictate really how your response well your fruit your free testosterone is really the number that matters like yeah your your total test will increase, but it's your free is what's active, right?

So you can have 2,000 nanograms per deciliter, but if your free is in like the 20s, then you're not getting good results, and a lot of it's just going to waste.

So if you can log your free testosterone, then that is a good indicator on what you're actually doing.

I didn't mean to interrupt you, but.

No, yeah, that makes sense.

Are there any tests that read above 50

for for free tests yeah they just you mean they just say greater than 50 on it and yeah that just is a greater like an actual number is there any um ones that read actual numbers or something or i'm sure there there has to be off the top of my head i don't know but i've because i've never had it that i've had it in the 40s um i've never had it above 50 so i don't know but The way they calculate that, I would assume they could spit out a number.

There has to be an instrument that would spit out a number because it doesn't make sense unless that instrument is dialed in to only read 50, right?

But

I can't imagine that you can't change the configuration on the instrument to just spit out the number or the calculation.

I just, you know, I can't imagine that it's not because the way they work now, they're so sensitive.

Like the sensitivity of the instrumentation we have now is so good.

I mean, shit, we detected gravity waves.

Like, and that one, like, not related to volume, but like, we can detect things that are incredibly hard to detect, like neutrinos and shit like that.

So, like, yeah, there has to be a way to read it.

I, I would, I would bet,

I would bet 90, like, I would bet my life that there's a way to calculate it and read it.

It's probably just not cheap.

And it's, and the standard would be like, because it's greater than 50, it's bad.

So, then, or like,

bad is in the way for what a normal level would be, not bad in like that sense.

Someone in the comments should definitely know this.

So, if you guys do, please let us know.

Give us a comment.

But, um, yeah, I was curious because I posted this post way back, I don't know, several years ago of just my beer ash, shredded glutes.

And I was like talking about my, um, talking about my cycle.

And I was like, yeah, I was running, I don't remember how much tests on it.

I think

I'm pretty sure I was just running my normal TRT dose of test because I think I was on a cruise, but then I added Winnie so I could look extra dry and crisp.

And obviously, that lowers your SHBG, so it ended up increasing my free test to 50.

Right.

And then I just remember getting some comments of like, he's a hyper responder.

And I'm like,

am I a hyper-responder, or is it just because I took the Winnie that free test ended up going to 50?

I mean, that the key, the free test is the key.

So any way you can increase sex hormone binding globulin or decrease things binding to it,

you're going to respond really, really well.

You know, whether it's something as simple as taking some boron or you're talking about taking Winstrall or like Danazole, if you remember that compound, which is like super obscure, but that's a lot of bodybuilders use that specifically because it decreased

sex hormone binding

globulin significantly.

And that was its main purpose.

So,

that is one way to, quote, hyper-respond, because you're now just giving yourself more active testosterone or whatever the compound is, right?

But then, like we talked about trestling, you can also chemically alter something so that it can't bind to that enzyme at all, and then it's always active.

So that seven-methyl group they put on there is the one that makes it not be able to bind to that enzyme, and that's why it's always active.

So there's ways to do it chemically or supplementary or other drugs.

So three different ways you can maximize things like that.

If you feel like any of the medications that we spoke about today may benefit you, such as BPC157, GH acreaglogs such as tessamorellin, IGF-1, oxandrolin chrochee, semiclutide, then you can obtain these from Transcend HRT and the link for that will be in the bio.

If you feel like you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone, such as depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, as well as lack of sex drive, then you can get this checked out as well by getting your blood work done at Transcend and they will provide you expert medical analysis.

Transcend HRT has worked with many professional bodybuilders and pro athletes such as Thor Bjornsson, Phil Heath, and Jeremy Bundia.

And if you feel like this podcast has any relevancy to you, I do believe that this clinic will provide of great benefit to you as well.

We're a nice place.

It looks like

thank you, bro.

I just recently moved in like like a month and a half ago because I moved in with my girl for the first time.

This is the first time ever living with a girlfriend.

Wait, what's up?

Is this the first time ever living with a girlfriend?

Yeah, this is the first like officially signing a lease with.

Yeah, first time.

So it's

daunting.

It's different, bro.

Things change when you live together.

You know this stuff.

It's different, bro.

I feel like I'm starting to grow more gray hairs already.

It's just funny, like, some of the habits that you don't see when you don't live with your girlfriend because like they they're you know they go back to the house that you're not there but when you live with somebody you either notice if they're a neat freak or if they're a slob or yeah like little things that you wouldn't pick up on if yeah but i like

I would never ever tell anybody to fucking get married if you don't live with somebody.

I think that's like the dumbest thing you could ever do.

Like live, you have to live with somebody

to really know if you guys are compatible and all that stuff.

I feel like that's such an interesting perspective.

It's fresh to hear, but I feel like it's such an interesting perspective because you know, in the old days, you know, it was the opposite, right?

Where you didn't live together until you actually got married.

So,

which is an array thing about arranged marriages, and then no offense to that culture, but that is such a such an odd concept that, like, your parents and someone else's parents say our kids should get married.

They don't know each other.

They just kind of introduce them and they are forced to get married.

And you have no idea what this person's like, their personality, their traits, their idiosyncrasies, like sex, anything.

You don't know anything about it.

And you're just married legally.

Yeah, it's wild, bro.

That's wild.

That's so crazy.

So, like, I've, I've lived with, I mean, 44.

I've, I had a wife for, I was with her for nine years.

Um, I've lived with several girlfriends, and you really get to

see, is this relationship going to work or not?

So I wish you the best.

I don't know you're girlfriend, obviously,

but congratulations on moving in together and everything.

Thank you, bro.

So it's, I'm going to be real.

I was.

She probably won't care that I say this because she knows that's true, but she kind of low-key, she kind of low-key convinced me and forced me into it.

And I was pretty anxious about it.

But to be honest, it turned out way, way, way better than I thought it would.

So that's, I mean, if they're like, if your girlfriend is like your best friend, it's great.

You know what I mean?

Like, you love the fact that you're around and the fact that it's not a one-bedroom apartment, because that's the worst situation ever.

Because living together in a one-bedroom apartment, you have nowhere to go.

You're fucking stuck there.

Right.

So, like.

That's the nice part is that we both like the idea and both wanted to get our own bedrooms.

And it's honestly perfect, to be honest.

Yeah, it is.

Like, you, I've lived in a one-bedroom with an ex before, and just because, I mean, this is, I was so much younger, and, you know, you don't have money and things like that.

So, like, you, this was the thing.

You get a one-bedroom.

And then, when, as soon as I had my first two-bedroom with a girl, I was like, oh, this is so much better.

Cause you get in a fight, you either have to leave the apartment or house or

at least now you have another room.

You'd be like, you know, I'm going to go in here, you know, whatever.

We'll cool off, chill out, whatever.

So, in a one-bedroom, you're just like, okay, I'm gonna go sit on the couch.

You stay in the bedroom, or what?

And

so, yeah, it's

hilarious because I literally was like, I was at a dinner because one of our friends was visiting from New York last night, and one of our other homies is just living with his girl now.

And he's living in a one-bedroom apartment.

And he was literally telling me, like,

he was literally telling me, like, bro, I'm, I literally don't get any space.

I don't

have a bathroom, bro.

Sharing a bathroom is so bad.

Like, I, i

it's just like not only do you have like in my experience girls have tons of shit in the bathroom no matter what it is clothes makeup whatever like it's all over the place so like not to mention you have to both use the same bathroom and the same shower and if one of you isn't clean it's just becomes a nightmare but like

that the game changer is definitely having separate bathrooms so like your girl go get ready blow dry hair take two hours whatever you gotta do i'm gonna go shower and then chill and whatever and do whatever.

So, like, a one-bathroom is not a good situation, in my opinion.

Yeah,

I think we're hoping, obviously, we're hoping to like one day be able to, like, be able to, you know, live and sleep in the same room consistently and everything.

And then, you know, by the time we end up having kids and stuff, but I don't know.

I think we're just leaving it to.

leaving it to time, you know, seeing how things progress.

She says, anyways, like, even as she was a kid, like, sometimes her mom, like, wouldn't be able to sleep in the middle of the night because her dad would be snoring, which is literally just like me so i or vice versa and so i think like sometimes her mom would just go to the guest room and sleep there my friend because

my best friends my best friend's parents were like that they slept in separate beds since i known him and they they slept in separate bedrooms because of like snoring and stuff or whatever and i'm like that's so weird to me because i i grew up in this you know

nuclear family my parents left

you know what i mean so it was just a weird concept that the parents didn't sleep in the same bedroom.

And then, like, my ex-wife, her

parents didn't even live in the same fucking city, which I thought was so crazy.

And then, like, when they didn't, um, when they were like, even when they're in the same house, they didn't sleep.

I was like, what, what, what is going on?

Like, I just couldn't comprehend it.

So it's just different people, man.

I mean, do what you got to do to make your marriage work, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, anyways, GH.

Yeah, back to GH.

Okay.

But

I think last week.

We were talking about doses and we were talking about

the Phil, you talked about the Phil Viz thing with FORID, and then we, and then you started to say we didn't get into GH stuff.

So I remember

you posted on your Instagram that the study about fasted cardio not seeming to have any more fat burning effects versus fed cardio.

And I think that's, I've heard that study cited quite a few times regarding fasted cardio.

Like, what's what's the point of fasting cardio, you know,

unless you're literally doing it for like longer than 45 minutes, I guess.

But

I think one of the things about that, that brand showed Phil,

that article, I am always curious about is that there's not really any articles on bodybuilders that are taking like GH fasted in the morning.

Who's going to fund that study?

Right.

Exactly.

You know what I mean?

Like, who's going to, who's going to like have athletes who take illegal are illegally taking prescription drugs?

And then doing this to see if it works.

Like, you could do it great.

Like, bodybuilders, in my opinion, should be like

doing this stuff anecdotally, right?

They should, a group of friends that are, you know, bodybuilding.

Some of them are real tight.

I know plenty of them that are very tight.

They should have all just got together and said, okay,

let's test this out.

Let's all do fasted cardio for the next two weeks or whatever.

You take your GH in the morning.

I won't.

And see how our body.

And obviously everyone's metabolism different, stuff like that, but let's see what kind of effect it has.

And I think that's the best way you can do it is it's it's not going to be published, but you'll figure out like a real world

results from that.

And if I had friends like that, like I have friends that we haven't done stuff like that, but we've I've given out samples of stuff like here, try this before you work out.

Let me know what you think, especially in the Blackstone days when I was just getting samples of free stuff and like obscure stuff.

PJ and I had this really good relationship where PJ will try like whatever I give him and he would give me his feedback.

And PJ logs a lot of his stuff.

So, like, he's somebody I can count on to be like, take this for a week to test your blood glucose for a week and let me know what you think.

So, I was always getting samples of stuff, and I was giving him, like, here,

take this today, see how your day goes, see how you feel mentally clarity that kind of stuff

and then we did that we did that several times with a couple stuff and then we found like that's how i was like finding things that were no one was really looking at yet and but anecdotally like you could tell because i'll try everything on me first and be like here try this i think this is cool and then we just go from there but i think that's what bodybuilders should do is just get together and do your own study and just take notes yeah you know

right i mean that's kind of why i love the podcast is because, you know, the only other thing that we had to see all the anecdotal evidence is the forums and Reddit and shit.

Yeah.

And you don't even know who the person is most of the time.

On the forums, it's, yeah, who knows who you're talking to.

That's why I really like the podcast is because I think,

you know, I don't, obviously I don't know everything and I can't read people's minds, but I truly believe like at least 90%, if not more, normally my guests are being pretty damn real.

And if they're not,

they normally choose not to talk about it instead rather than lie about it.

That's normally, that's normally the response I get.

Or like, even like, there was one case where one was like, I actually don't really want to talk about this stuff if that's okay.

Cause he's just like a top-level athlete.

And I'm like, yeah, totally fine.

And we just didn't talk about it.

So

everything else he was

just normal shit to talk about.

But there's no reason to lie.

I mean, I can understand.

If you're, you know, under contract with something and they're like, you can't admit to using illegal drugs.

But maybe in the past, you could say, I've done this the past, or whatever, but like, there are some circumstantial things, but most, most bodybuilders that I know, like the real ones,

they're pretty honest with everything if you ask them.

I do too.

Like, that's exactly how I feel.

Now, there's 100%

a rare occurrence of pathological liars out there, which I was actually kind of shocked to experience.

Unfortunately, I had one on my podcast that was kind of exposed, but he wasn't a bodybuilder.

He was

not trying to say any names, but influencer.

Is that the word?

No, he was

man.

I fucking know.

Don't use his name.

Just, I don't know what you're trying to say.

If he's not a pro, he's just amateur or

no, if I say it, everyone's going to know anyways, but he's a powerlifter.

That's like,

that's like

extremely well accomplished

in powerlifting, but I don't know.

Maybe he had some kind of further

we never know.

I don't know.

It's psychology.

I don't know much.

But, but but anyways basically like most of the time though i experience what i experience is like the bodybuilders like to like actually you know we we like to communicate about the shit that we're experiencing because it's like i don't know it's like in therapy when you get to like relate and talk about the shit that you're you're feeling and things to to like your therapist it gives you like a better a better feeling i think i think like when bodybuilders got to like relate to what they're experiencing from a result of a drug or like a dose of something they took or whatever it it's nice to be able to talk about it you know plus to like look out for each other right?

You know, like if you're saying, like, if you're being honest and talk about, hey, I took this and I got these really bad side effects, don't take this.

Or I took this and it was awesome, like, you should try it.

Like, that's

the, there's a lot of, you know, hate, hate in the bodybuilding and jealousy and stuff like that.

But the true guys, that, like, the camaraderie.

I think they share information like that.

And I think they're really looking out for people.

And especially guys like Foad, like, he's somebody who's doing this to help,

people coming up and stuff.

Like, here's what I went through.

Here's some do's and don'ts based on like what I did wrong in the day or what I did right.

Like there are a lot of guys.

Guy sister Nino is somebody who's a great fucking person for the sport.

And,

you know, if you ask him like things he's did and doesn't do and

to help to look out for people.

You know, and I just think we need more of that than the jealous, like

this younger group that's coming up.

I just think it's not the same.

I guess, like, like I said, I'm older.

I started following bodybuilding in like the

Coleman-Cutler rivalry era, like the early 2000s, and maybe right before that.

But all of those guys at the time, they seem like they're like best friends, you know?

Yeah.

Like, you always see them at shows or expos and stuff, and they're all cool.

None of them like hate each other.

And I think now a lot of the younger ones, it's all like a very much an attention game.

And especially with social media, like pushing to get, you know, followers and whatever else they're doing on social media, there's a lot of hate out there.

Like, and if you just read, I read comments, people are just fucking trolls and assholes.

No, no, for real.

It's really the con well.

Here's the thing: I don't really think it's so much the younger generation.

I think that, or I don't think it's the people in the younger generation.

I think as people mature and grow older, they just, I don't know, it's just normally normally the level of maturity does increase, right?

Like,

I think

I'm trying to figure out a good way to explain this, but

I think it's more so just social media in general has kind of brought out a lot of the opinions that we don't normally see.

Yeah, of course.

And, and, and, in a very loud manner.

And I think also that

because we see those opinions, it's like pretty clear that I think there's some, there's some belief still that like,

I don't think that this era right now, that people are, and a lot of bodybuilders are acting the same way in regards to their transparency about what they do as like bodybuilders in the 80s and 90s that would literally be judged under doing such, I think, illegal things.

you know, at the time and also have stipulations to their career and their, their income.

So, I mean, I just think it's a completely different era but i think there was a lot of stake too right there's a lot of and i think people will take the people that were in that era and like say like oh bodybuilders are liars and then they'll point towards those people that were like 30 years ago you know

that are obviously like you dude your grandma and your grandpa like my grandma is still fucking i'm not i'm i'm gonna be transparent this is just the truth but like i i learned when i was like 12 years old that my grandma was racist and i was like what the fuck grandma it's like fucking 2000 2000, whatever.

Like, you shouldn't be a racist anymore.

Well, she's a grandma, bro.

Most of the times, a lot of these,

a lot of the gramps don't really

change as much as they grow older.

And I hate to say it, but it's just kind of true.

It is true.

It's hard to change.

Like, it's hard to change in general.

Like, you have to, like, personal growth is a big deal.

And a lot of people to change their opinions on something.

That's not easy.

Like, it comes easy.

So, like, for example,

scientists, right?

Like, everyone's like science is based on data, but if the data changes, you follow the change.

So, like, there have been like stupid

base, probably the best example, like Isaac Newton, like, Newtonian physics was like, gravity was like, okay, it's a force, and the planets go this way, and you can calculate it.

And then Einstein comes along and is like, no, it's not.

It's the bending of time.

And that like changed the world.

And so the fact that you can change your mind based on new information, if you could do that as a person, that just shows you like that you're, you know, a mature and rational thinking, where like things, I mean, race, racism is a total irrational thing.

And there's tons of things that are completely like irrational, but that's just, some people just can't do that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyways, we went on a little tangent.

A little tangent.

What, I guess, I know it's hard for us to measure the amount, of course,

but I'm assuming that you would agree, though, that like facid cardio is a little bit different when you apply some of these.

Yeah.

You know, when you apply, when you start like playing goddess, whatever with your chemistry, you know, you start increasing the GH.

I'm assuming, I don't know, I mean,

do you find benefits to taking GH and say, maybe like Clan,

potentially even thyroid

for facet cardio?

GH probably

cleanse is going to work no matter what.

Thyroid is going to work no matter what.

No matter what.

So GH probably because of the short half-life and because it acts right away to kind of push fatty acids into your system.

And then as far as like keeping muscle on during cardio, because fast, if you do fast cardio as a natural athlete, you know, you're going to lose muscle, right?

Like, especially in your legs, if you're doing like walking or like a treadmill or something like that, like you do see that legs do shrink during that period of time.

But by taking, if your body's in an an

It's not in an anabolic state because you're dieting, but you have anabolics in you that will preserve your muscle.

So, you know, the benefit of facet cardio by having those in your systems by itself is great because then you know you're at least not burning muscle tissue, really, you're because it's because you have those androgens in there.

But

I don't think that taking Clenn, if you really measured the total calories you're burning at that moment,

it's probably not statistically significant.

Because

Clan has a long half-life, right?

So it's not like something that's in and out of your system in six hours.

I think the half-life of Clenn is like 30-something hours or like, or at least 18.

It's very long.

So it's not something that you can get

just an immediate response and then it goes away.

Like a Phedra or a Phedrine

has a shorter half-life.

So I think that you could probably notice you'd burn more calories at that moment.

Or even some of like the ginger extractings like

peridoxine and six

gin, I think six ginger, all those compounds maybe can have an effect on may slightly increasing the calorie total calories burned.

Is it all fat?

Right.

We don't we don't, you know, maybe who knows.

Maybe yohimbine for females

if they're trying to burn a little bit more, show a little bit more of their ham glute tie-in or something.

Yeah, like

so alpha yohimbine, I think, is so much better personally.

A lot of people, including myself, I get super anxious and I get super nauseous or nauseated on regular yohimbine.

Alpha Yohimbine does not give me those.

So

I always have, whenever I've made products, I use very small, like one to two milligrams of alpha yohimbine.

And when I tell people to take like the ECA stack, I do with alpha yohimbine as well for like the synergistic effects of those compounds.

So I think alpha is the safer of the two.

And it's so, and it's crazy because it's the exact same molecule, except one of the hydrogens,

if the molecule is a plane, let's say,

one of the hydrogens is going up and one of the hydrogens is going down.

That's the only difference between these two molecules.

Yet the way that that interacts with the receptor, the subunits of the receptors, changes the effect, which is why, to me, chemistry is so cool.

But I don't know if that helped your answer or not.

But I think, yeah,

I think is something that can potentially

increase the effects of, say, fasted cardio.

And I'm not against fasted cardio.

I just think that

you can

still burn calories and you could probably work out harder and when you have

food in you like and you and you're doing high intensity stuff just so you have food in you it doesn't doesn't mean that like that that you're automatically going to use all of that and your body is not going to burn fat you can burn fat while eating food you know like and then um

to also say

that i think post-workout cardio that a lot of people do is not the best time because like think about

what you just did right so you just worked let's say an hour you worked out for an hour weights hard burned a lot of of glycogen used up your amino acids your body is is is like a sponge like it waiting to absorb all these nutrients it's like in a catabolic state waiting for food and then you go into cardio you're just making it even in a more catabolic state right so when you should be feeding yourself um you're now doing cardio, which could potentially burn even more muscle because your body just is in the state of breaking down muscle from working out.

Interesting.

But you don't think,

I feel like the argument against that is

that you are further burning your glycogen storages as your

for your workout.

Yeah, immediately post-workout.

And obviously that's also a good time for you to do cardio rather than your glycogen storages being full.

Because then you refill.

Yeah, and then as long.

Okay, because you're shifting from you don't have glycogen to burn, so now you're going to burn fat instead.

And then immediately post-cardio, then you consume carbs so that you can start the muscle building process.

I think that's maybe even more importantly than carbs, maybe just

amino acids immediately and then do cardio is more beneficial, like EAAs, just something like that.

I don't think that's going to affect fat burning in any way.

I just think that right after you work out, you are in this catabolic state.

And so

your body,

let's talk about a natural person first.

Your body likes to burn muscle before it likes to burn fat, right?

And you just trained your body to burn muscle.

And now you're using muscles

doing cardio.

So you're in this burning muscle phase where

if you had not been in that phase and you were just trying to do cardio to lose weight, then you could possibly be shifting towards burning fat.

But like your muscles have just broken down.

And then instead of refeeding them, you're going to do something else that is using muscles.

So,

I could see both sides of it.

This is just a theory again.

Like, I don't think this has been tested.

I haven't seen a study on it.

It would be interesting to see.

But, um,

I, I mean, I did post-workout cardio all the time, especially when I was competing.

It was just the thing.

You do cardio in the morning and you did cardio post-workout, especially like the very end of your prep.

You just had to.

But if I were to do it now,

i definitely would take at least an eaa drink post workout maybe maybe not maybe skip a carb or maybe just have a little bit of carbs something

um but i definitely would have eaas before i did anything uh

cardio-wise okay cool so in terms of um

So we understand that GH and insulin kind of have like this inverse relationship.

I remember some discussions regarding GH.

That GH should be injected sometime,

I guess, after your

sometime after insulin is

not at the same time.

Not at the same time.

Not at the same time, yeah.

Okay.

Can you explain this?

And then

I have a small little

question, rebuttal question afterwards, but yeah, can you explain why not at the same time?

Because you're you're

one is telling your body

to

not use insulin and not store stuff and release stuff, the GH.

And the other one, insulin, which is the storage hormone, is signaling your body to not only decrease the use of growth hormone, but then to store stuff.

So they're just antagonists of each other.

So if you're doing them both at the same time,

you're not really maximizing the use of each of those, the benefits of each of those compounds.

I personally think

insulin pre-workout is really good.

And then you drink an intro because it creates like this really good anabolic environment where, like, all your blood's going to your muscles.

You know, you're drinking like a cluster dextran or glucose thing with EAAs and creatine and whatever else you're putting in there.

that's all going straight to your muscles.

The insulin is shuttling it and your blood, which is super saturated with growth factors, is like going to get all these nutrients at the time.

If you do it post-workout, there's a benefit there too, obviously, of the uptake of nutrients and all that stuff.

So I think that it's one or the other.

I don't think you need both.

I think I prefer the pre

for that,

because you're in this anabolic environment and all the blood is going directly there.

As far as GA, I think injecting growth hormone post-workout is the best time to do it because

that is when your body needs it.

Like, to you just have all these, you just broke down these muscles and you're trying to get satellite cells to recruit and start rebuilding.

So, if you hit GH post-workout,

obviously, you got to wait a little bit to have some carbs because the carbs will blunt the growth effect.

But growth hormones hormone's half-life isn't that long in general.

So, if you hit it immediately after, get some like aminos in or something, and then maybe

a half hour, maximum an hour, eat like a full meal.

I think that that the growth would be a most effective post-workout.

And then, so many people take it at night, and that blows my mind.

Like, why are you taking growth hormone at night?

Like, that's when you produce the most.

So, when you take anything exogenously, you're blocking the natural production of it, right?

So, if your biggest surplus is at night, and then all of a sudden you take exogenous,

you're not getting a surplus during the day.

So, you're kind of missing out.

But if you take it in the morning, when it's low or post-workout, then you still, you're still going to get that surplus at night,

if that makes sense.

Which is why I like MK to take at night, because that is not blunting growth hormone.

That is causing your body to secrete.

Yeah, it's um right, right, right.

A secretagogue.

Yeah.

Um, that's so I've heard of this,

I've heard this a lot.

Yeah, I've heard this discussion a lot.

I don't know, this is this is one of my favorite bro science discussions, to be honest, because

um, I don't know, we only have our anecdotes right to go off of here, but I think uh, maybe one of the reasons why some people will take their GH at night is because they're taking a bigger dose of GH at night as well, like say two IUs at night, two IUs in the morning, two I use after workout, six I use total, for example.

And it's like, why take like testamerlin or MK at night to increase that when I could just replace it with a bigger dose of GH anyways?

I think that's part of the argument there.

But that's

that's a, I understand.

Yes, like that eight IUs or six I use is much bigger than what your body's naturally going to produce.

But if you keep doing that, your body's just not going to, it's going to be so used to you getting this bolus dose, then it's just not, it's going to, it's not going to release it when you stop taking growth hormone for a while.

Your body is gonna start to like have to slowly rebuild, and you're you're increasing somatostatin, which is what breaks down growth hormone, right?

Because when you, like you said, whenever you inject something, your body has an enzyme that breaks it down.

So the more you're taking it to uh

in a row or like a bigger dose, the more of that enzyme, like somatostatin, is going to break it down.

So now you have increased levels of somatostatin in your body, and then you stop taking growth hormone and your body's trying to naturally produce it, but your levels of the enzyme that breaks it down are much higher now.

So when you come off, you're not going to get that normal GH spike that you get if you didn't ever take it at night.

I see what you're saying.

Yeah.

From what I've, obviously, I don't know how true this is, but from what I've heard, though, normally it's not very

significant, though, of like a change.

Like normally your growth hormone still kind of comes back pretty fairly quickly.

Oh, like the rebound effect?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

but you still have increased the level of the enzyme that breaks it down.

So again, unless I see blood work to like verify this is just my theory, which if you have higher levels now that you've made of the enzyme that breaks it down, it might take

it might not be the highest, or you might not have the same amount that you normally, it might take longer to get the same amount you were producing at the time,

is is my theory

so i'm um

the

the this position that i want to take up is just for the sake of discussion i always found it very interesting okay so

because you know i fucking i don't know anything right but um

the fucking

so i don't know what other coaches oppose this but uh and hopefully i'm not putting his theories on blast but i also find it super interesting but um

patrick tour has, I think he's talked about this on Fuad's podcast before, anyways, but he has a different theory with growth hormone and insulin.

And I know he doesn't really use insulin very much, but he does create some fucking monsters.

And I know it's not always from the geared dose.

So sometimes we're like, is it from your training for SST regimen?

But like, is that really that different from other training intensifiers?

Or is it from like your methodologies with growth hormone and insulin?

Like, what is it?

I think his belief is like

one of the best times, even though it's not healthy for the sake of long-term insulin resistance, so you can't do it all the time, he says.

He believes one of the most powerful times for the sake of muscle growth to take GH is when your insulin is at its highest.

And I...

The problem with this, with me regarding continuing this discussion is I don't remember exactly what his reasoning is, whether or not it's because they are both potentially anabolic, just because they're not, that's not the natural wave of which they do in your body, but

obviously exogenously being right, but because you're exogenously having them both spiked at the same time

is a place where you do create a lot of

potential for muscle growth.

But obviously you don't want to do this consistently because this is pretty bad for your insulin sensitivity in your long run.

Right.

But it makes me, it it does have have me it's just interesting to me because I remember I don't know how related it is but we were discussing you know LH and FSH

with the feedback with testosterone and taking testosterone with HCG just because it isn't naturally what happens though you can still do it you can still increase both at the same time to you know keep your gonads running while having testosterone supplemented so I wonder like could you technically say the same with GH and insulin?

That's an interesting idea, and I don't want to dismiss it because I don't know.

I'd have to see more about it.

But, so, are you talking about your natural insulin levels being highest and you taking GH, or are you talking about exogenous

exogenous insulin being high and then taking exogenous GH on top of that?

See, that's where I'm like,

I don't know if I can say

in this discussion, because I don't know exactly

what he feels with exogenous versus natural insulin, but I do know that like sometimes like he'll have you take GH,

like he doesn't,

he doesn't have you wait too long to take the GH after your food.

Like he'll have you take the GH like 30 minutes after your meal.

Okay, so you got a natural insulation.

That's your natural insulin,

okay.

Right.

Now, I don't know if like, I haven't, he hasn't had me take GH after my workout, though I know he has with some of his athletes, probably the bigger ones, because I'm on lower doses, respectively.

Um, but uh, I assume, like, maybe he might, I know he does subscribe some low-dose insulin after and pre-workout.

Yeah.

For me, it's, it's fine.

For me, he has had, he has had four units, yeah.

Which, I don't know, I'm kind of surprised that seems really low, but

I wouldn't be surprised though if there was like GH and insulin at the same time.

I mean, they are there, it's they have this, they have this weird antagonistic relationship, but they also have this synergistic relationship because IGF-1 is insulin-like growth factor.

So it's very close to insulin, and we know that insulin is superanabolic.

So there is a synergistic effect there.

I would.

Like I said,

I can't dismiss his theory.

It depends on

if he's talking about like a natural insulin spike and then exogenous GH, because that would make more sense to me than exogenous and exogenous.

But I will say I have used exogenous insulin twice

without growth hormone, just exogenous insulin,

two runs of it in my entire life.

And I had...

I had never put on more muscle in a shorter period of time doing insulin three times a week, doing,

I think five I use pre-workout

and then five I use post-workout, I think was the max I ever did.

I think I started, I was super scared, so I think I started at like two or three because first time I ever did it, I was so scared because you don't know, you don't know if you're just gonna like immediately go into hypo or not, and then you don't feel anything, yeah.

But um, I will say that though, those are the times I was my biggest and definitely gained tons of muscle.

And I think the combination of the pre and the post was great.

And then the time that I ran it just pre, I still got great gains.

And I, because I made like my own intro, like of the stuff we talked about.

And that Milo Sarchev was pretty famous for that with Dennis Wolf and Hide.

If you remember back in like 2007-ish,

they had this intra of like clustered extra EAA, creatine, all stuff.

And they would drink that with insulin during their workouts.

And

the same thing that I was saying is what he was saying: is that you got all this blood that's saturated with nutrients, and you got insulin shuttling it to your muscles, and it's just a super anabolic environment.

And those guys' physiques, if you remember, Dennis Wolfe got huge and ripped at like back then.

He was like a top,

it might have been like a top six Olympia guy at that time, something like that.

But

so that I do, insulin definitely has its place.

It's not for any, everyone, and you really have to know what you're doing.

And I definitely suggest getting a glucometer to kind of monitor your stuff because, and always, always have like Gatorade or something on you.

Because like, I remember you having that in your

posts.

Yeah, I did.

Because I remember like even after I had a meal,

I remember getting home, getting in the shower, and all of a sudden going hypo.

And I was like, and I ran to the fridge to get a Gatorade because I needed sugar right then.

So it's just that important if you're dealing with things that are that dangerous.

Like

the good thing about that is there is a

on-off switch.

And so like

you can prevent hypo by doing that where like you know dnp has no off switch right there's no there's no anecdote to taking too much dmp you know there's no narcan for dmp so like you could you're gonna die it like by taking too much of that stuff so like the good thing with insulin is is like you're even if you are super low

if you can immediately get glucose you can you know get yourself back to to normal right right um yeah, like, um, like Mo was saying, like, uh,

uh, Austin Stout was said on my pod, you know, just make sure that your insulin is just supplementing how many carbs that you're already consuming.

Make sure it equals the same, you know, don't like make your carbs equal the amount of insulin or something and then end up eating even more carbs than you were supposed to in your program, anyways.

Yeah, yeah, because it is a storage hormone, right?

So you're going to store fat or

um glycogen.

One of the two is going to get stored.

So if you're at a surplus, so yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess that is super interesting.

But you don't

feel like a lot of the muscle that you built might have just been massed and actually like just water weight from your

increase in insulin use.

Yeah.

I'm sure some of it was.

I mean, I don't, because, you know, there's, there's a, there's a rate at which your body can actually build tissue, but that rate can be accelerated with growth factors and things and, and can be even further accelerated in a super anabolic environment.

So, uh,

water,

probably,

but like

blood, I mean, like, like after you get off like an insulin pump is like insane, right?

So, yeah, you're post-workout, you're definitely like, or if you take a pre-workout and you do your, you are like, after like three sets, you're like pumped to like the match where it's like hard to like do curls or like, I mean, you can try to get in the shower and do something.

It just hurts because you're so full of blood.

But

I would say that,

I don't know, let's call it like 70, 30, something like that, maybe, maybe 80, 20, I would say.

I don't think it's a lot of water retention from insulin because insulin is really not known for.

retaining water as much as like other things.

So

I wouldn't say it was a lot of water weight.

I would just say, you know, I mean, obviously, it's glycogen, which is carbs, which holds a lot of water, and you're taking creatine, which also holds like intracellular water.

So, if you mean intracellular water weight, yeah, which is also kind of considered muscle tissue, there's not really muscle tissue, but it's not, you know, extracellular water retention.

So, there's a little bit of a difference, but probably, probably, some intracellular water retention.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.

that's the one thing that's always interesting to me too is like even though a lot of it at

i don't know it's it's always kind of it's not too easy to differentiate i think between um intracellular water versus how much muscle tissue you've actually built until you see like a difference in progress pictures or something or like circumference in the very very long run like yeah say coming off of these compounds but i do notice like a very I have noticed just in the in most of these bodybuilders progress that there always seems to be such

an almost direct relationship between the amount of water that is being stored intracellularly in one's muscles to how much overall size that they end up gaining over a long, long period of time, like years.

So, I mean, and it just, that's why it seems like if you want to simplify everything down,

if you want to just become like a massive open bodybuilder, just consuming a fuck ton of carbs, um, probably having it all stored as much as you can, probably using something like insulin,

taking compounds, I guess, that, you know, having a higher level of estrogen rather than a low level of estrogen.

Right.

Just like all these things that end up making you just this,

you know, this big fluffy monster of just glycogen and shit always seems to end up resulting in you just gaining a fuck ton of size.

I don't think, I don't think estrogen, estrogen is

extracellular water, right?

So I don't think estrogen is going to help in your muscle as far as like

size, like yet because you're holding extracellular water.

I think what you're saying about glycogen, though, and always having water in your muscles over a long period of time, I think is beneficial to building muscle.

I mean, that's what creatine does.

Creatine does two things.

One, it it's part of your phosphocreatine energy system, but two, it also is like an osmolite.

So it does increase intracellular water retention, which has many benefits, including muscle growth, right?

So, I do agree with that statement that, you know, if you're just storing glycogen, which holds water, and if you're increasing intracellular water retention, your muscles can probably

expand from the inside and maybe push the tissue a little further so that way you can grow.

Like your muscles being constantly pushed out.

So, maybe that has some long-term effect of just having a bigger muscle because it's so used to having the pressure of being of all the water there.

I'm just guessing here.

I don't know.

But yeah, like the, and obviously carbs, I don't know any bodybuilder who doesn't do a high carb diet to bulk.

I mean, that's just like, you know, 101 bodybuilding.

So

I think that the some guys like Jay Cutler, always used to talk about eating like a thousand carbs a day, which sounds crazy, but he just like put, he, he, he didn't, he stored it well.

And like, you know, Jay, Jay was never like a fat off in off-season guy, really, ever.

You know, where some guys got more like heavier and a little more body fat, he kind of stayed in the range.

He never probably got over like,

I don't know, 12, 14, 15, something like that.

Never got crazy.

He always kind of had abs for the most part.

So I think that's another thing is like it's so bad for your body to go from like

having and pointless to like eat for the scent, the the scent, the for the sake of getting big and like you're just putting on fat too, that which you're gonna have to strip off.

So, like, you really don't need a huge calorie surplus to gain weight.

I think if you're eating the right foods and stuff, I think you probably can get away away with like a surplus of a thousand or under to like kcals right a day i don't think you need the like if you're if you're maintaining at 2000 and you go to like 2800 or of the right macro ratios i'm sure you could probably put on a decent amount of size just from that oh for sure that bonus 800 extra calories i don't think you need to double double it you know oh definitely not i don't think so either i think um a lot of these people's

yeah i don't think so either i just think you know like as you grow and more as you use a lot more compounds obviously your like basal metabolic rate or like your your td e i guess considering assuming that you're doing the same level of activity as you were before is just higher so that's why it seems like normally your surplus increases even more but technically

maybe i mean you're you're maybe burning like muscle is is a thermogenic right muscle tissue is thermogenic so like it's something that requires energy to build and then it also it gives off this energy so like the more muscle you have the more calories you're burning throughout the day i think total so yeah i think it would make sense that you would the bigger you get you do have to like slowly increase your caloric intake to build and or not only to maintain but to build yeah

that makes sense to me yeah

so much bro science in this podcast it's awesome.

You think this is bro science?

You don't need to

coming from the man who cites the studies himself.

Yeah, we can go and have, I mean, we can go deep into real science if you want.

Anyways,

I just want to go over this one last thing before maybe we just ask a couple Q ⁇ As because I totally went over time.

We're good.

We're cool.

It's the person I'm living with now.

It's the person I'm stuck with.

So

you stated some of the OT, the over-the-counter sups that you recommend during the cycle, which I love because these are all the stuff that I literally use.

Maybe except for the plant sterils.

Maybe I should add that.

But yeah.

So you have ubiquinol at 200-400 milligrams per day.

Yeah.

And acetylcysteine, NAC, Arjuna extract that I added recently.

So I'm hoping to see a change in my blood pressure.

Fish oils.

I have the Carl.

Have you ever heard of Carlson's fish oil?

The one that you can get from the bottle?

No, is it like a krill fish oil or is it just different regular oil?

No, it's regular fish oil.

Okay.

But it's supposed to be like...

It's called Carlson's like the finest fish oils or whatever.

It's supposed to be like high-quality fish oil that's like, hopefully doesn't

isn't highly oxidized or anything.

Plus, you can get it from in the bottle, so you don't have to buy the pill form that can

oxidize.

So, I don't know.

It always tastes very clean.

There's literally never ever any fishy scent or flavor whenever I'm consuming it.

And I feel like it's helped immensely with my joint pains.

So, I don't know.

But that's just an anecdote.

And then vitamin K2.

The plant sterilizes a good probiotic.

I've got that.

Sometimes I wonder if it helps or not.

Is that Christina?

Christinith?

It's all three of them.

All three of my dogs are here right now.

I didn't know you had three dogs.

Yeah.

Christinith is here.

Leela is jumping all over me.

Here's Christina.

What's up, dude?

And the rogue is the one that's howling.

She's husky.

So

down, down, yeah.

They're probably going to have to go outside soon.

And then they eat at like seven, and they have this internal clock.

Yeah.

So, like, I never get to sleep in ever just because they are like, it's time to eat.

Let's get up.

Like, it's seven o'clock.

It's like they, you know, that's their time.

So it's crazy.

But yeah, three, all of them rescues and Mila was the foster fail.

Like, that's awesome.

Thanks.

Like this, back when I was in Dallas with

my ex-wife, we wanted a foster dog.

They had like a thing for Thanksgiving, like bring a dog home for Thanksgiving and stuff like that.

And we did that.

And after six days, I was like, I can't give her back.

I was like, if you want to do it, you're driving her to the

shelter.

And she got halfway and then turned around.

That's hilarious.

Yeah.

And now I have three dogs.

We're thinking about fostering a dog too, and we've been to the shelter a couple of times.

And obviously the problem with that is that we literally know that if we actually get one we're probably never going to give it back

yeah it it's super hard man like uh you just they're just so loving and shelter dogs too you know going from imagine living in shelter and then like getting a home and people with you every day it's like and then having to go back it's it's like mean to like almost give it back you know what i mean unless the dog is just not a is like something wrong with it like it always is attacking you or it's got to be something horrible.

But like most dogs, they just, you know, want something like love and attention.

And, you know,

so that's why I was, I was like, I can't give her back.

And I don't, I don't regret it at all.

And, and like, I cook all their own food because I don't, I don't trust any of the dog foods with the heavy metals and all that stuff.

So like literally.

They I think I've shown a picture.

They eat eggs, they eat vegetables, they eat rice, their pastas.

Yeah, they eat real food.

And I cook it for them fresh every couple days.

So they're super healthy because of that.

Wow.

And that's totally chill.

Totally chill for them.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, dogs,

a lot of dogs can eat like raw food too, like raw meat and stuff.

I don't recommend it, but it can be.

They have the gut to do it.

And then

if they, if, if I don't, if I give them sometimes an iron supplement, because I don't give them a lot of red meat.

So just to give them that and balance everything out.

But yeah,

they've they've all been checked at the vet and they're all fine.

And I mean, Christina is 12,

so and she's still like a puppy, so

that's dope, yeah.

Um, all right, let's just uh let's wrap this up, finish up this QA so you can take them out and everything.

But, uh, is there any other supplements, I guess, that you've added to your stack since other than also Q-Kermin, curcumin, citrus bergamot, and nanokinase?

It's a pretty long list, but these are all supplements that I've heard at the top of the list of most

informed people.

The newest, well, not the newest, but I guess in the last couple of years, the

citrus bergamot was a big one.

And

natokinase has gotten a lot of good feedback.

Like, I would say, what, in the last like three, four-ish years, it's kind of been really popular.

It wasn't a well-known thing,

but

I really like that.

I think it has a lot of benefits.

And so, like, when

I made organ support for chemics, I put all that stuff in there.

Like, the Arjuna we talked about,

that I remember reading about years ago to prevent left ventricle.

I purchased that.

Yeah.

So

that was one of the main reasons why I made that for like, because I'm assuming people that are taking these stuff are, you know, also taking gear and things like that.

So

if you're going to be doing this stuff, you have to do it as safely as possible.

Early umbrella is you're just being dumb.

You're taking things you know are dangerous.

So do whatever you possibly can to mitigate the side effects.

So that was my thing.

So yeah, I think we covered all.

And Curcumin, I really like.

That's another one that's like not

very bioelectable at all.

And they've come out with a lot of new curcumin

variants with either if they have like

soft coating on it.

I mean, black heparine extract was the original combo because that actually does increase the bioavailability of curcumin specifically.

But then you have

like,

what is it called?

NV.

NVV or something, but it's a compound that encompasses, like a cluster detection would encompass something it like wraps around it so that the molecule can get bypassed uh like your for your your first fast in your in your digestive system so that should get into like and work and i think curcumin just has tons and tons of benefits for for everything like so i i don't think there's anything that's not that we haven't talked about on that list that that is new to me i think um

there's the the you know blood pressure is like the silent killer, so you're always got to be worried about the blood pressure.

So, taking things like natokinase and things like that to keep your blood pressure down, keeping your cholesterol in check with like citrus bergamot and uh things like that.

So, as long as you're taking those

things at efficacious doses, I think you're doing the best you can.

Cool, cool, you know, okay, yeah,

I think so too.

Um,

it's a

the list has grown longer and longer every year, honestly.

So hopefully it's good enough by now.

I hope.

I mean, there's so many things

that come out now, like either natural stuff or I mean, peptides are huge.

So like

there's probably going to be good preventative peptide stuff soon, I would imagine, if I had to guess.

So,

but yeah, that's my list so far.

So speaking of peptides,

me one asks favorite compounds and peptides.

My favorites, personally?

Yeah.

BBC 157, I just got a bunch to do because I've had some stomach issues.

I mean, everyone knows it for healing, right?

And

when I took that at TB

500,

I had great results for injuries.

And so inflammation is obviously chronic inflammation is terrible for your body in general and can leak plenty of like metabolic things.

So BVC by preventing tons of inflammation, I think is great.

I just got AOD 9604, which I'm interested to try.

I've heard mixed things about that.

So we'll see if it works as good as like HGH Frag.

I really liked using HGH Frag for fat loss.

I thought that worked really, really well.

Okay, I don't know anything about that one.

HH Frag, 176191, it's like it's literally just the 176 to the 191 amino acid of the growth hormone peptide.

So it's the part that's responsible purely for lipolysis, the breakdown.

Oh, well,

yes.

Yeah.

And it worked really, really well when I tried it.

And AOD is supposed to be similar

and possibly a beta-3 agonist, which like is the holy grail of fat burning because beta two works, but also overstimulates you and and and stuff like that.

So beta three is like pure fat burning.

So I like those.

As far as like the um growth hormone releasing peptides, there's so many.

I really liked CJC 1295 with the drug affinity complex, the DAC.

I think that worked really well.

It's designed to be a once a week or a twice twice-a-week shot,

not an everyday thing.

Which I, you know, if you're pinning already, if you do cycles like I do them and you're pinning every day, like the last thing you want to do is pin all these peptides like every day.

So, like, I really like that one for

growth hormone release.

I have not tried like samorin or epimorilin, I haven't tried those personally.

Uh, I've tried like the

GRG growth hormone release peptide two and 6.

Didn't see a whole lot.

Definitely made me hungry.

But as far as increasing growth hormone levels, I don't think it did as much as when I got my blood work done for MK677.

I saw that my IGF-1 levels were super high, like in the 400s or something.

So I knew that was working.

So it was peptides and research chemicals or just peptides?

They said favorite compounds and peptides.

Okay, so you want to do some research chemicals then too in this category or is he talking about steroids compounds?

I'm assuming they're talking about steroids, but

I'm up to hearing about some research compounds too.

Okay, we'll give you all.

So as far as gear goes,

I really like primabolin.

Can't go wrong with prumabolin.

Yeah, same.

I really like trestolone.

I know that's kind of like a polarizing compound.

So this is why you're talking about it so much.

Well, I mean,

I affiliate with Amino Asylum, and they're super cool with me.

They send me seven bottles right now.

So,

but like, I, when I first tried it from my buddy, who had

a company back in like 2018 or something, I just, I got really good results from it.

And I just thought that this is a very underrated compound, you know?

So milligram for milligram, it's pretty potent.

And so I, and I think it's extremely anabolic.

Like I said, it can't bind just to sex form and binding globulin.

So, I like that a lot.

What about

like long-term?

Have you seen very many side effects or

detriments to blood health, blood work?

No,

not I, so I never do anything long-term in general.

Oh, yeah, you did say that, yeah.

So, like, most of my cycles are like eight, eight, eight-ish weeks, but they're like, they're all blasts, right?

They're all like the daily daily shots and the layering stuff.

Anivar, if it's real, you can never go wrong with real Anivar.

I think milligram for milligram is super anabolic, super low on the side effects,

and especially for like cholestasis, which you know is like for your bath is how your liver, because you have to break off methyl groups on orals and that causes bile problems in your liver and stuff like that.

Anivar is not as toxic as other orals are to the methylate

um

and then an oldie well an oldie that you never see anymore that i was lucky enough to get test suspension so no no ester test in a water base so this is this was a guy from a compounding pharmacy when um

before they got busted they were like a pharmacy literally like you go to the doctor and they would write you like for whatever like i had a script for test deca DECA, and like test suspension, like all at the same time.

And like my insurance covered, it was great.

But like test suspension, I really like because that works so quickly.

And in like, I know you can have water retention if you do not take like, and I'm not a huge fan of AIs.

I'm a big,

you need estrogen for lots of things, including like sex drive.

cell wall, health, like tons of cholesterol, tons of good things.

So I don't believe in like taking AIs every day.

I think that's a terrible idea.

But as far as just like strength and size, I think test suspension and just feeling good.

I think test suspension is up there.

And then,

if we want to go research compounds, GC1, the thyroid mimic, I really like that.

That definitely increases your metabolism and

lowers your

triglycerides pretty well.

So, if you're worried about something like that, I think that helps out a lot.

Yeah.

SARMS, Osterine, I really like, especially if women are going to do something.

I've had a couple pro athletes that I worked with that were women that have used like five,

maybe seven milligrams of Osterine a day that's got, that got really, really good results from it.

Some of the SARMs, I just think aren't great.

Like the bang for Buck is not great, Like the side effect, and there's just not, there's too many unknowns.

So, for the that, I'm not a huge fan.

And then, God, there's so many research coming up.

Like, I'm really interested to try out BAM 15,

the uncoupler.

I just posted a study today comparing BAM 15

to Ozempic

to another GLP-1

to another uncoupler, and then a 60%

caloric restriction in mice, but it was pretty cool.

And the BAM had really good results.

It was the fat loss, the fat loss and body weight loss was the same as 60% caloric restriction.

And it was much better than Ozempic and

the other GLP-1.

So I and I've heard these mixed things about it.

Like, because I'm trying to get a feel from like followers, like who's taken it before, because it's kind of expensive, and you know, it's not DNP, but it's supposed to be that mechanism of action and hopefully safer,

excuse me, stuff like that.

So, I'm interested to see that and give that a try.

I have,

I am currently trying uh, SLU PP332.

Okay, yeah, so here's the thing with that compound: if you take, if you do the calculation from study, the human equivalent dose is four milligrams per kilogram.

And most companies sell this in the microgram level, right?

100 microgram, 500 microgram, whatever.

Somebody sent me a bottle that supposedly has 500 milligrams in it, which is like, you know, a dose for somebody who's like, what, 110 kilos or something, right?

So maybe a little bit more.

So

I'm a little over 100 kilos.

So a dose for me would be like 400 milligrams if you're trying to

mimic what the study was in mice.

And so I think the problem with that is people are taking it at like 500 micrograms, a milligram, maybe two milligrams, and they're seeing something, but not seeing a lot.

And I think the problem is it's the dose.

And so.

I think

if somebody actually comes out with a high dose product, like this, I have not tested this product.

Someone just sent it to me.

Um, but I do feel that it heats up my body temperature when I train a lot.

So, I, I know something is working.

And, and before that, I was doing uh 500 micrograms in the morning and it did not feel the same.

So, there's definitely more than like a milligram.

It's definitely got more.

So, I'm interested to see where that goes because exercise and mimics are

this fascinating and sometimes disappointing kind of duality, right?

Like I was not impressed with GW

101516 or whichever one it was.

I got nothing from it.

Not that one, not that one.

SR9009.

Okay.

I had a buddy make injectable version of me, right?

And

I tried, because orally the bioavailable shit's like 2% or 5% or something.

So the injectable version, you know, I tried that and I really didn't see any real changes.

And I definitely, when I tried GW, I didn't see much.

And I know that's not an exercise mimic.

It's a different mechanism of action.

But I didn't see a whole lot from it compared to

when I took the other compounds.

But so that's why I'm very interested in this SLU compound to see where it goes.

And bam, I'm waiting to see if

I can get

a decent sized sample.

Because again, the human equivalent dose from the studies is eight milligrams per kilogram.

And most places sell 50 milligram caps or 100 milligram caps.

So you're talking now about an 800 milligram dose for someone my weight,

which, you know, it sounds like nobody's doing that much.

I've talked to people who have taken 150 milligrams.

I did talk to somebody who said they took 750 milligrams.

It felt like a real significant difference.

So,

so, regarding SLU,

do you feel like there's gonna be, do you feel like there's any potential dangers or any like fears that you have regarding someone taking 500 milligrams over 500 micrograms?

Because that is kind of like a crazy

difference in dose, right?

Yeah, I mean, it's a huge difference, but I think

that

when you're an exercise mimic, I can't see

a lot of downside because if you're really just turning on the same genes that you are when you're exercising, you're not turning on any,

from what I've read, again, it's a newer compound, so there's not like tons of data yet.

But I haven't seen anything that would

would cause for concern for me to say that if you're trying to turn on the same genes as you're exercising and you already have been exercising, and we know for a fact that exercising is good for you, I can't imagine that there could be something crazy.

But again, you know, who knows?

You know, until we know further research, you know, if things can cause cancer, but I don't see that right now.

Right.

We didn't see any, like,

I don't know, any side effects from the

study on rats?

No.

There weren't any anything noted that, you know, crazy

as far as detrimental side effects.

No.

Okay.

I guess

the only curiosity I have or

the only pushback I have is

the arguments regarding equivalent dosages for humans is

kind of like something that we can't necessarily I feel like it's, from what I've heard, it's a bit hard to

equate, like, because

to calculate?

Yeah, to calculate, because it's not necessarily like the calculation everyone normally does isn't necessarily completely true.

It doesn't really take into all variables.

It's based on

body area, right?

Right.

So, and then, and then there's a conversion

surface area of your body.

So, yeah, surface area of your body.

And there's a conversion factor for different animals.

Right.

So I think,

like, yeah, if the human ecolon dose from what they gave the rat is four milligrams per kilogram, is do you necessarily need 400?

Probably not.

Could you probably get away with 200?

Maybe.

You know, we don't know this stuff yet, but that's how they kind of do some pharmaceutical stuff.

Yeah.

And at least that's how they do it to start clinical trials.

Gotcha.

You You know, so I mean, there is validity to it.

Okay.

I'm not, I wouldn't dismiss it, but, but could it be lower?

I'm sure, like, we always want the lowest equivalent dose of it, or lowest effective dose of anything we take.

You never want to take too much of anything.

So

that's like a baseline calculation, and then you play around from there.

Yeah, okay.

That's cool.

That's super cool feedback because I know there's a lot of anecdotes, a lot of people that experience like a lackluster effect from SLU.

And I know John Jewet has discussed also a lot of the anecdotes and empirical data he's seen is like people hardly experience anything when they use SLU.

But if you're taking, you know, a milligram when you should be taking like

100

or something, 100 now.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

That's a huge jump.

Right.

Cool.

Okay.

One of the questions, I guess it would be a little bit difficult to answer this one, but one of the questions was related by Furious Styles SP, Furious Styles Styles P, asking honest opinion of SLUPP332.

Is it better than 5-Amino 1MQ?

I guess, how would you, how do you feel

comparing the two?

I have not personally tried 5-Amino MQ.

So I don't know from personal experience.

Anecdotally, I've heard it works well.

I don't see

from the mechanism of action

similar, but not the same.

I don't think it's considered an exercise mimic.

I think it just

amplifies specific genes.

And I think, and I could be wrong because I haven't done a ton of research on it.

I think that it definitely can help with like longevity from my understanding.

But as far as

mimicking exercise for like, let's say, obesity purposes, I don't think it's gonna have the same effect okay okay in my opinion

all right there's two questions asking about the the same thing so

so nestor 19 asks what's your take on Myra Begrin no side effects Clan

and has

even more positive benefits And then the other question

asks, I had used Myra Begrin for prep because my coach recommended to me, would you take it over Clenn?

Yes, 100%.

It's a pure beta three, right?

Where Clenn, personally, I fucking hate Clenn.

I never like taking it.

A lot of people only take, I've only taken it

maybe three or four times in my whole life.

Okay.

And I, and I hate it.

It like, I hate the shakes.

I hate the heart racing.

I do like it on low dose, though.

I feel like low dose is like a little bit.

What's a low, like 40 micrograms?

Yeah, I did.

I started at 20 and then I went up to 40, which I know respectively is pretty damn low for especially males.

Yeah, but like

again, Clenn

has been misused a lot because, again, it has a very long half-life.

Okay.

And then you have a lot of old prepped people telling you to take it twice a day, which I don't know why you would ever take something twice a day when your half-life is longer than 24 hours.

So I, you know, you're just kind of asking for side effects.

And then I've seen people take crazy doses like 120 micrograms,

150 micrograms.

Like that just seems like you're asking for problems, right?

So if I, if like a pure beta three, which is strictly fat burning, supposed to be less, like no tachycardia,

none of the shakes i think that that's the way to go i i just made a post about this maybe like a month ago too if he wants to read it i did make a post about that compound so

i wonder if his phone died

dude that's my bad my phone just died you're all good bro

so this is this is my last what was the last thing you caught that i oh crap what were we talking about uh we're talking about the beta three agonist and clan yes yeah okay yeah so i i said i personally have not tried that compound but if he wants to reference a post i i really it's literally in the last 10 posts i made okay cool so he could check it out there all right all right we'll just close this out now because we went off we went crazy over time but

i mean i'm i have like another 10 15 minutes if you want to just get a couple quick questions and i'm cool it's up to you All right, I'll ask a couple more then.

Well, okay, so a couple of these we've already answered, like ancillaries, everyone should be using gear.

Brian Blessio asks, most promising things currently in trials or that you know about?

I think

BAM, which we talked about, M15, I think could be a possible BC tribute.

The GL3P, sorry, that GLP3 that we were talking about before.

Yeah, I think that is going to show a lot of promise.

I am not a fan of the GLP1s.

I think this one is going to help preserve the muscle mass.

And, you know, obesity is such a problem.

I think that's something that should be looked into.

Right.

And I think it's got that one.

I think it's got a lot of promise, too.

I have heard there's some people that experience some extra side effects on retatrutide.

I think aside, like versus something like Trazepatide, such as

sleep disturbances, maybe like

or heart rate.

Like it's had like tachycardia.

Yeah, yeah.

So I heard the sleep disturbance thing.

So I'm not sure if that's,

I, again, these, you know, everyone's different.

Everyone's going to react differently.

So it could possibly cause sleep disturbances.

But I, again, I've never tried this compound and I really don't have a desire to try these at the moment.

I'm not like, I'm not trying, I'm not fat.

I'm not trying to like really lose that kind of weight and stuff.

So I'm just kind of sticking to where I am.

But I do think that it's definitely going to show promise as an anti-obesity drug.

Cool, cool.

Omar Ismail asks: I wonder if I say these right: is GHK copper peptide effective in controlling acne and reducing scarring and pigmentation?

Acne, I don't know about preventing scars.

It has a lot of benefits, right?

So the copper is key for the enzymes that help with

collagen tissue and things like that, right?

So the metal helps

with

the reactions that need to happen in that enzyme.

And then

I think that that shows promise for, like we talked about, like scar tissue, like skin

elasticity, anti-aging look-wise, you know, not like actual longevity, but just aesthetically.

So, I think it has promise.

I know a lot of women that have looked into it and started taking it.

I personally have not taken that compound yet.

I don't have like a real reason to yet, but maybe because I'm white and we get we look old when we get old, I'll try it at some point.

Um, I don't know, but I haven't tried it.

But I think, I think it has promise, yeah, for sure.

Cool.

Um, get bodied PT asks: any good slash bad info on adipotide?

Excuse the misspelling if I messed it up.

If it's adipotide that I think he's talking about that kills fat cells, that if I'm not mistaken, that is what killed Boston Lloyd.

It kills fat cells, but not selectively.

And I think what happens is it got to his kidneys and started killing cells in the kidney.

And again, I don't, I'm not, I'm not 100% on this, but I'm, I'm very quite confident that that is the peptide that that actually did, did, did kill him.

And so I do not recommend taking him at all.

There are much safer compounds to lose body fat than that one.

Okay.

Because it's not selective, right?

So

You're just burning, you know, fat cells are kind of everywhere.

So you're not really talking about like visceral fat versus cutinous fat versus fat that are just in organs, you know, organs of fat.

So, I think that no, I would not take that ever.

Okay.

We'll just do one last question.

Um, D Gold0101 asks,

How much should we be trusting big peptide sites to not be selling us poison?

That is a great question.

Um,

the you need to have a site that is willing to show you third-party testing and at the actual, they're called chromatograms or whatever method they use.

So if you're using something like GCMS, which is gas chromatography, mass spectroscopy, or

HPLC, which is high-performance liquid chromatography, which is what

Amino Asylum used.

I posted that the other day.

Basically what that showed, the chromatogram, it's a graph of time.

It's called retention time.

So you're putting a compound in and comparing it to a known standard concentration.

So let's say we're talking about caffeine and you make a solution of caffeine that you know is 100 milligrams per milliliter and you use that as your standard.

And that's a 99.9% pure standard that you buy from like Sigma Aldrich or a chemical company.

You compare that to the compound that they have, that they're selling, right?

And then you see if it matches one, something called the retention time, which is

how long it takes for it to go through, they're called columns, through the column of the instrument to be,

to show where it comes out.

And then it shows like a spike, which is like which you measure the area under that spike.

And from there's a calculation you can do.

to convert that area into the

amount of milligrams it is and the purity.

So, if you see more than one spike, it's obviously impure.

And if the spike doesn't come at the exact same time as the standard one, then it's impure.

So, Immuno Asylum specifically sent me multiple ones.

I just posted one and tried to explain it the best way I could in layman's terms.

But that's how you know a company is good.

If they're willing to show you their third-party testing results and using one of those methods.

Like GCMS is like the gold standard for testing, but HPLC or reverse phage HPLC, all of those are good as far as testing to know the purity of something.

Because

I don't know if you remember this, but a long time ago, Chinese growth hormone was huge and they were spiking it with

a compound that caused you to return to water retention.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

so that you think it's real.

So, like, you know,

who knows?

Um,

with some of these sites, you really have to know the people behind them and know and like ask for the third-party testing.

And I wouldn't try something that I didn't see was third-party tested from a research site, uh, like blindly.

A lot, there's so many now.

There used to be just like a handful, but there's like

literally, if you scroll on anyone's instagram they pop up excuse me all the time like brand new labs and stuff so again you got to look for that look also for the quality of the actual powder the the life life

powder if it's like all crumbled up that's not a great sign if you've ever seen you know real sterostim growth it's a very hard disc and if you turn the bottle upside down it's it slides down and rolls as a very hard disc and then when you add the when you reconstitute it which with whatever you're reconstituting whether it's a myceotic acid mixture or water the it should go clear right away if you if you see any cloudiness after you stir it then then there's impurities in it as well gotcha okay so those are the best ways to check it out awesome awesome yeah and i know not everybody on here is going to be able to do things like what i can where i like send it to my friend to get it sent to a lab to get tested and shit.

But I'm saying, like, they, you, you, you, use a company, ask them, uh, ask them for third-party

bench.

And if they're willing to share it with you, and don't just look at the cover page because you can type that up on your computer.

If it says, like, oh, it's, you know, measured at 15 milligrams and it came back at like 14.9 or 16.1 or whatever.

Like, anybody can make one of those.

You actually have to see the chromatogram to to show the retention time and show that how it was calculated and all that stuff, which, you know,

I can explain to people if they really want to know the details of stuff.

But the layman explanation I made in the post and kind of what I told you is really what you need to know.

Awesome.

All right.

Cool.

Thanks, man.

I asked everyone one last question at the end of every podcast, but if you were to disappear from the world tomorrow and you had one message you could send to the entire world today, what would the message be?

do whatever you want with whoever you want to do it with because you're never gonna get opportunity you only live one life so if you really want to do something in your life and you're passionate about it do it like the best decision i ever made was going back to school for chemistry i i was gonna go to I got into law school.

I was going to go to fucking law school.

And

like, I literally had a conversation with one of my close friends.

And I was telling him about literally a Patrick Arnold article.

And he's like, dude, you're so passionate about this.

Why don't you just go to school for chemistry?

I was like, fuck, you're right.

I should.

And I did.

And never looked back.

So, like, follow something that you're passionate about.

And do, if you want to do something, fucking do it.

Like, the world is huge.

Go see places.

You know what I mean?

Like, go travel, do, something.

If you're passionate about it, just fucking do it.

Save up and get it done.

Fuck it, bro.

That was sick.

Thank you, man.

Thanks for coming on.

Absolutely.

Where can everybody find you?

Is there anything else you want to

talk about or

I really just have Instagram at theGirlochemist?

I have TikTok, but I don't use it.

I keep have been told to use it.

I know, but I don't like making videos personally.

Like, if you look at my posts, there are a bunch of pictures of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I consider myself like a

science communicator.

And I think I do that pretty well.

I just, I hate making videos.

I like, I mean, I love the whiteboard stuff.

And I, and I don't know if people do or not.

Like, if they get too, like, it's too much chemistry or if they like, they like it.

They don't like it.

So I just, um,

My goal is to try and make more reels and then get on TikTok and stuff.

But honestly, like, I never thought anyone would ever give a shit about a page of chemistry you know supplements and like pictures of molecules but apparently some people do so for sure it's been a it's been a cool ride and i'm just happy to be on there so instagram at thegorillo chemist which is with two r's and two l's like guerrilla warfare and then um

you can always email me if at the uh grow thegorillochemist at gmail.com or dm me and we'll talk about stuff.

Like I'm working with athletes and stuff doing protocols for people.

And so if you want to reach out about that, we can talk and discuss about consultations and blood work and all that fun stuff.

So fuck you.

I feel like you have a lot of value to give the world.

So I completely support that you posting on TikTok and all these other platforms as much as possible.

I love to.

Like I said, I want to start a podcast with my good friend Sandy Luth.

She works at Nutrix.

She's out in LA, which I think you're in LA, right?

She's out there and she's been a good friend of mine for like 10 years.

I like having a female co-host to like bounce ideas off.

So not just, you know, talking about just guy stuff.

We'll talk about like relevant stuff.

So I'm looking to do that.

But

I've given out a lot of free information and I don't have a problem with it because you know it is what is in.

I guess the one thing I wish I did was maybe trademark some ingredients because i know other companies have used them and and like bigger companies than than mine and stuff but it doesn't bother me because

the fact i know for like that i i like brought it i was like hey i got this idea let's try it out yeah so um that's really the only thing is i love sharing science and and information if i can get people even remotely into like learning about how stuff works in the body and having a better understanding of what to look for and instead of just all this bro science bullshit that you know everyone talks about that and if I can help people along the way that that's really why I'm here that's the whole reason I started the page is just to get get real information out there not bro science stuff yeah gotcha cool well thank you bro that was dope of course definitely hopefully we can do some do another one again someday in the future because uh there was like probably two hours of stuff that i would have loved to talk about that we definitely didn't get to so

Yeah, and I'm sure by that time there'll be brand new stuff to talk about

for sure.

So, yeah,

thank you for having me.

Definitely let me know when this is uploaded and send me a link and all that stuff and I'll post it and

we'll talk again soon.

We'll do.

Later, brother.

Later, man.

Have a good one.

You too.

Thank you guys for watching.

If you'd like to support us, you can rate us five-star on Apple Podcasts Spotify or anywhere you find your podcast or subscribe to the YouTube channel because that's what gets us these sick, informative guests that are a million times smarter than me,

like the gorilla chemist.

So,

love you guys, thanks for being here again.

I'll see you guys next time.