Kyle Wilkes & Jared Feather: Nick Walker’s New Coaches

We got Jared Feather, the classic IFPB Pro and the head physique and bodybuilding specialist at RP Straight.

Genetics of a black dude.

Like I got a bubbly ass and big round belts and stuff, you know what I mean?

And a small waist.

Like it's a black guy's physique on a white guy.

We got Kyle Wilkes, the highly accomplished bodybuilding coach and ex-super heavyweight bodybuilder.

I know when we had our first discussion, he was going to get shit for choosing me.

And then I got a nickname in high school called Jeroid.

Jeroid?

Jeroid.

Oh my God.

Every random drug test, I was called into randomly drug tests.

She was having a lot of seizures from this one medication.

And we basically just thought, like, she's going to die.

She couldn't walk really, she couldn't talk at all.

I think one of the two most important genetic factors is one, how well someone can handle gear, their tolerance.

The other is fat distribution.

And I think a third thing also is injury resilience is a very genetic component that people don't talk about often.

Now you take that into consideration for fatigue management.

You take it into consideration for an advanced athlete.

You take it into consideration for somebody who hates training with reps in the tank.

It's not a method.

It's a codified approach you apply to a specific person.

So I have Nick training with a few reps in the tank whenever we're first starting off a message like he had got some type of MRT test done in about a year.

So that was flagging very high.

It was a severe reaction in terms of stay away from these foods for at least six to twelve months.

We've solely incorporated working them in as we've kind of cleansed his gut and you know restored his mucosal barriers.

You don't want to just take band-aids and take this medication.

And before you know it, you're taking uppers, downers.

You look at anomalies like Anton, kiddo coach.

Phenomenal.

Most people never look like that, no matter what.

The reality is is he's got good genetics, a very good response to any type of PEDs.

But again, for him, if we do it the wrong way, we don't play the cards the right way, he'll be gone.

It won't work.

Because at the end of the day, we need longevity in Nick's career.

I'm trying to make sure he can do the best he can, not just for this year, but for the year after and the year after that.

If I just go in and don't give a fuck, and they're just like, let's just do everything we can and see what happens.

Well, guess what?

That's not pressure.

That's death on our head.

They're going to give it to the guy who's the best on the day, every time.

And I think that's going to be

before starting this podcast i just wanted to say that ideating steroids for a full show is not widely accepted because it discounts the real work which is the backbone of this sport and unfortunately spreads that an unsafe chemical solution is all you need for results both of these are anti-ethical to society's understanding of the sport and while there will always be some that claim that peds are all you need i would like to deliver an honest message of what is required for achieving top performance as well as the dangers associated with this route I received this comment from a user named Night Scarens.

But just as a rock climber, the athletes undergoing this path and the sport are willing to put their life on the line for their passion.

Just the danger between the two sports is different.

Luckily, we do have safety nets in the sport, such as organ imaging and regular blood work.

But that doesn't change the high risk one must accept in taking on this competitive lifestyle.

Do you want even speak Tagalog?

Basayan?

Yeah.

They speak Tagalog.

Does the accent rub off on you if you're around them too long?

I used to speak like my mom, so maybe you don't have to say anything.

Traders Joes?

That's not racist.

No.

I understand how they say it, dude.

That's so fucking true.

Yeah, so gladly I've been away from home for long enough.

Yeah.

A little bit more weight.

But if you get around them, does it?

Because if you're me and your girl have a conversation for 10 minutes, I'm going to have Twain in my voice.

Yeah.

I will absolutely have Twain in my voice.

Yeah, same.

What's up, man?

Good, dude.

How are you?

It's good to see you, my man.

What's up, guys?

My podcaster

backup helper

just came in.

Where were you, Traders Joe's?

Traders Joe.

Traders Joe's, where were you?

Well, I was on the Sepulchre right here.

There's a whole bunch of cops everywhere.

Helicopter.

Helicopter?

Yeah, somebody's on the run or something.

Right here.

Guys.

Kyle's not getting here for a while.

So we have the LA Fit Expo, and that's why Jared's here.

And if you guys ever come, don't come to LA.

Yeah, LA sucks.

The crime is fucking nuts.

I hope Travis, my little brother, and Aaron, don't get shot.

Yeah, I thought I would be...

I don't know if this is a good thing to...

I don't know if I should say this story

I thought I was gonna be safe picking this area in Nancino and

One day I heard this banging while I was like in my office doing computer work.

Oh my god.

I'm like what the fuck is going on?

Why is the maintenance man being so loud?

So I run over to my bedroom and two dudes have broken through my glass window and are breaking into my

office at this apartment at like 5 p.m.

Did you like have one of your comp swords or something?

Yeah, I wanted to grab my

cloud Final Fantasy VII sword.

Fuck it.

They're like, oh, shit.

This guy's going to kill us.

Luckily, they saw how

big my shoulders were.

That's right.

And they ran.

Like, oh, hell no, his shoulders are huge.

They saw how small my calves were, but they saw the shoulders, so they ran.

Dude, that's fucking crazy.

Yeah.

Very proud of myself.

What were we talking about earlier?

Flasics?

Yeah.

Felasics, Asians, a bunch of other things.

GI distress and why it changes mood.

Yeah.

Which I do have an answer to.

Wait, what's the answer?

You have cells in your stomach that create most of your serotonin.

Okay.

And when you have any sort of quote-unquote GI destruction or oxidative stress that causes inflammation there,

it decreases quite a bit.

So you have like a lower capacity to secrete the serotonin, which is like 95% from these cells called the...

It starts with the E.

You can't super long E.

Oh my God, it makes so much.

It makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, and then you also have that

cytokine type of reaction where it can cross into the brain and affect mood regulating areas like hypothalamus, hippocampus, prefrontal cortex, things of that nature.

So when you have high loxative stress, for sure you have that.

So the GI distress itself causes a lot of mood dysfunction.

Wow.

So if you have clients who have

like lots of gastrointestinal issues close to show because they're running fucklita orals or whatever, yeah, they're going to have some mood swings for sure.

That doesn't help when you're on trend and all this other shit.

So, but that is a big thing.

If you have a client with

GI stuff, I would say

if it's already happening pre-orals, get that shit figured out first because it's only going to get worse.

And then they're going to have like a really hard time in prep.

Lots of mood stuff.

Okay.

That's good to know.

Yeah.

I always just tell people, like, watch out for the GI distress or else you're going to fucking feel like shit.

You will.

Never knew why.

That's why.

Yeah.

That's where most of your life is.

This is where it goes right now.

Everyone.

Sorry, guys.

I don't have any serotonin.

I got fucking GERD.

Gird.

It's on his face.

It's always good when I'm in film.

I'll go this time.

Jared's on something right now.

It's called being in LA.

It's called coming from

a long time driving in.

Wait, so it's the traffic and some other shit that you guys hate about LA.

Everything about this place is awful.

Oh, man.

Why am I here?

This chair is nice.

It's very comfortable.

Thank you, bro.

You have a beautiful face.

That helps.

Thank you.

It helps.

It helps a lot.

Yeah, Lixie built that chair because I don't know how she built it.

Yeah.

Country girl, Kentucky girl.

Damn right.

Yeah.

Hell yeah, brother.

I build other things, though, I swear.

I believe it.

Yep.

I saw your meth lab

anyway.

moving on.

Well,

we were going to have Kyle on at some point.

Yeah.

Don't know when that's going to happen.

Especially if they're shutting the freeway down because there's literally helicopters chasing somebody.

It's probably Kyle and his trim lab.

Kyle.

He came with too much gear.

It's in the trunk.

And I wanted to have you on anyways.

I wanted to have you on without him anyways.

Yeah.

So, thank God.

He won't watch this.

Don't don't worry.

So, I didn't even get to talk about you or your life or anything when we blast had our last podcast with Dr.

Mike.

Because Dr.

Mike took over everything.

Yeah, he wanted to talk about his rage or whatever.

That clip went fucking viral.

Yeah.

In a lot of places.

Yeah, it did.

Like, Mike, see what happens when you conflate shit.

I love how he talks about it like that.

It's hyperbole, but it is not a bad thing to talk about in hyperbole because if we can get the negatives out there and people can understand that that that's a real fucking thing, yeah, maybe they'll stray away from it, right?

But it was definitely like

I'm around you a lot, you're not just angry all the time, my friend.

We still laugh, we have a good time,

yeah.

Um, it's funny too, though, to see the comments where it's just there's so much controversy because some people love the trend, you know,

and just love the juice, the orange juice.

Love the orange juice,

some people literally don't feel any problems from it.

Yeah, I honestly, with Trent,

myself,

I start to, so I start putting it in around the time when I am experiencing

a decrease in mood from

just the dieting aspect.

And the second I put it in, it makes me happier.

Whoa.

Really?

Do you mind if I ask what dose do you start putting it in and then you suddenly feel that like change?

Oh, the second that I put it in

like it's an acetate obviously yeah most of the time you can get it in anthate but so it's a shorter ester and uh

the second like i wake up the next day and i'm immediately in a better mood and uh i don't i don't go above like 125 like

at about 90 i believe it is milligrams you get all the secondary benefits of like the blocking of the glucocorticord receptor and things like that yeah and people do much past that did you say 90 about 90 i believe it's about 90 milligrams i've heard from uh i think john Jewett said 50 to 100.

Yeah, it's in that range.

Yeah, it's in that range.

Yeah, you get most of these because that's the only reason you put it in.

It's still just an anabolic steroid, but still binding to that receptor.

But the secondary thing it does is block the glucocorticoid receptor or bind to it so that you can't produce as much aldosterone, as much cortisol.

So that's why it's pretty cool.

That's its secondary function there.

Yeah, right.

That's the reason I use it from last prep, too.

My coach

it's a lot harder to talk about when I see when everyone knows who I'm talking about.

The dose was a lot higher because that's normally the typical

that people have running, right?

But instead, I decided I wanted to cut that in half and I wanted to start at 100 because I had my friend who also listens to John Jewett and me myself who does listen to his

work know about the whole 50 to 100 milligrams being like a minimum required dose for that to that effect kick in.

And I know from running certain DHTs in high doses in the past,

like how it stresses me out when I'm actually in mental stress

just isn't worth it.

I feel like it just hurts me more in my progress, to be honest.

Yeah, there's only so much

blocking you can do.

And if you're just pissed all the time, good luck.

You're still going to produce a lot of cortisol.

Right.

Yeah.

And ruin relationships, and that happens all the time.

So stay stay away from that shit, guys, if you already have some issues, you know?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think I felt okay for with 150 for like five weeks when I bumped it up.

But by the time, like, six, the six weeks started rolling around, and then it was like the last three, two, one weeks of prep, and I was starving to death.

Yeah, it was just like compounding, and that's yeah, that's another thing.

Like, six weeks seems about like that, that sweet point, just anecdotally, to be honest, for most people.

Keeping it in, like, I've heard people running trend all prep, and I'm like, How do you feel about the end?

Like, oh, I'm always fucking pissed.

And I'm like, that makes sense.

16 weeks of compounding trend.

I'm just like,

I don't know how I'd feel.

It might have a different effect on me, you know?

Fuck all that.

Real quick, guys.

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Wait, so when you were talking about your prep in, was it Tijuana?

Tijuana Pro.

That's when you tried Li Wana.

Was that the first time you tried LASIC?

That was the only time I did it.

The only time you did it.

Fuck yeah.

So what happened?

Because I know some people.

They're very harsh.

LASIXI is a diuretic for anyone who doesn't.

It's the harshest diuretic.

And it's not a loop.

It either is a loop or not, but it's one that doesn't spare anything.

There's no sparing of potassium or anything like that.

It's just full on.

You're going to pee.

And it dips into everything.

Muscle, organs, you name it.

Like you're secreting water from everything.

So I had this point where I was like

somewhat full.

started peeing, but I had already cut water.

And then by the time it was to stage, I started peeing or like probably two hours pre-stage, three hours pre-stage, I started peeing clear again.

And if you go from dehydrated looking pee, super yellow, to clear pee, likely you just dipped into muscle glycogen stores.

Like you just dipped into the water, intracellular and not extracellular.

Really?

Most likely.

Yeah.

Wow.

So I was like.

Full on, got full, took the LASIX and stuff.

I was still drinking water.

Then I cut it harshly.

PPP, like it was getting more and more yellow, and I was getting drier and drier, and I was staying full.

I was like, fuck yeah, this is great.

And then at the three-hour out mark, I was like peeing clear,

and uh, I didn't want to add water back in because I was scared.

Uh, I didn't want to add more food because I was scared, I didn't want to add more sodium because I was scared.

I just didn't know enough about the LASIC itself to fix the problem.

But the second I started peeing clearer, I was taking pics three hours out, two hours out, and flatter, flatter, flatter, and just pissing clear the whole time.

Damn, yeah

so i looked like that was my 16th place one tonight how do you how would

you how you looked compared to uh you know you don't your muscles aren't pressed against the skin as well you're way like you're not as vascular yes stefan says the pressure is pretty low yes yes 100 like even just like flexing and like touching your muscle it feels super soft

okay

yeah you just

Where you had striations, even though you're still that lean, you don't have striations anymore.

and that's happened to me a couple times on stage uh even if you have like slight glute striations they just go away damn and i have like insanely striated quads and they were gone my abs are always really good i have like crazy yeah yeah feathered quads feathered

feathered quads

uh just gone all of it my abs are even kind of like flat it was hard to flex my abs and my abs are insane so it was like okay i clearly fucked this up yeah it was it was a it was a treat to say the least that was my worst that was my worst peak for sure.

But I was doing that for a purpose.

I was doing it to test

time scales of LASIX and if I wanted to ever use it with any clients.

And basically, I came to the conclusion of what I already had thought, which was they suck.

Why are we using these in bodybuilding when they have killed people?

Yeah.

What would you say that your genetics stand when it comes to the cosmetics of your physique when you're drying out?

Would you say you tend to be on the more drier, defined, detailed side or are you someone that tends to be more round and

i'm kind of like i like i say this all the time so i don't really care but i have like a genetics like a black dude like i got a bubbly ass and big round belts and stuff you know what i mean

and uh

a small waist like it's a it's a black guy's physique on a white guy but i

from but the back don't have that super grainy look my hamstrings do but i just don't get the glutes like most people because that's largely genetic like if you have straight where your striations are, like

Teon has striations up every single fucking quad.

So does

the giant killer.

So does like Derek has crazy glutes at eight weeks out.

And most people don't have that.

So there are guys who just have genetic strong points.

And if your genetic strong point is that you're super dry from the back, well, you're going to be really rewarded on a bodybuilding stage because half the time that's all, that's their only metric of this guy's in shape.

It's from the back.

Yeah.

You've seen classic shows.

Yeah.

It's the guys with the glutes winning.

That's all they fucking care about.

That's why I'm excited to, that's why I'm excited to get it.

Yeah, you probably, so you have, yeah, because you have.

I have the worst genetics for men's physique, but

I have a lot better genetics.

Yeah, I remember you posting some mirror shots.

I was like, damn, these fucking shit.

My glutes come in before my abs look perfect.

And it frustrates me.

That's most guys.

Because

men store Android.

And females store gynoid.

So Android's the Android obesity around the stomach and everything.

And gynoid is the hips and butt.

And I store like a female.

It's just how it is yeah that's hot all right

the dudes love it

all the bars in la come on

yeah um i always find that so interesting um

like when i think about my physique everything if i just push hard everything gets detailed yeah and then that abs like the core seems to come in last like it'll still be there you'll see all the abs but the kind of abs that you want to see on for example the men's physique stage yeah that just doesn't really ever come in yeah unless i'm like somehow perfect and it's only happened in like one show ever yeah i talk about my glutes man like last year rgv was probably rgv and nationals both were like the only times that i nailed having like some semblance of the some glute striations on the outside of my glutes and they rewarded me for it you know it's just the last thing and if i

do you have to push to get to that and it's it flattens everything else out and then i'm like fuck, this sucks, you know?

What do the judges say?

Like, what are the judges' feedback that they normally give you?

Because I'm like, I feel like you do amazing.

And I think where you rank is a big deal, but I understand that like everyone wants to be the top.

Yeah.

But I'm still shocked too that

you haven't won a pro show or gotten even like second place because your proportions are crazy.

You always get peeled.

Like, what's their feedback?

But that's the thing.

From the back, because I don't have glutes, my hamstrings can be dug the fuck out.

My back can look great.

I got Christmas tree and shit.

The glutes hold so much fat that they just don't.

It's a glute contest all across the board, man.

I'm telling you.

That's their metric of who's in shape.

Maybe you should get like a reverse BBL or something.

Honestly, I thought about getting a skin reduction.

I really did, dude.

Because when I was natural, this is a true story.

I was natural.

I massed to 230 pounds.

I got a DEXA scan because I was in charge of the kind of like at the end of my master's program.

I I was putting athletes on DEXAs all the time, and I got to run that equipment.

My

gynoid, my hips and my butt, stored 32% fat while my core was at 17%.

While your core was at 17.

17.

My hips and ass were 32.

It was the most insane distribution of fat I had seen.

And I had done thousands of people on that thing.

How, how is the

what's the average that you normally see?

Maybe a three to five percent variance.

Three to five, like like a percentage of the body fat.

So, like, let's say somebody's 18 and then 21, 22.

Yeah, uh, my

fucking big.

That's crazy.

That's insane.

So, when you think about that, if you think about somebody with 32.

Dude, right?

Have you got it at 23?

I mean, yeah, I'm only a 1% Nigerian, but that's like everybody.

But I'm 15% Greek.

Okay.

My biological father is Greek, I guess.

So, I guess.

Fucking gay.

So

I have loose skin because of that.

Like, think about a guy who comes down from 32% body fat, like,

and then they get in great shape and they have like loose skin on their stomach.

You know what I mean?

So I have that on my ass.

So not only do I have to like get really lean, but I also got to like when I tuck, like when I wear my trunks, I got to like pull my skin up and use like the glue and tuck that skin up there.

Damn.

Yeah, it's fucking crazy.

Yeah, it's bullshit.

So I thought about getting some skin reduction there.

I really did.

Is that what they say then?

What?

No, my feedback is always like,

get leaner.

That's always my feedback.

And then

fucking great.

Right.

And then

it's my arms and my back.

You know, I'm like a broad guy.

So

when I'm standing next to other competitors, I usually look pretty big.

Okay.

And because everybody else is so compact and classic,

or they're just really great genetically and they have huge arms and backs i look small up top so

okay yeah

um

i wish that

it's hard for me to say this say it

i just understand that it's hard for them to give like direct feedback sometimes yeah it's a little complicated yeah but i mean the fact that you already understand where your genetics lie, I think is a big yeah.

I think, I think I have the genetics to be on the Olympia stage.

Yeah, I think so, too.

Yeah.

I think so, too.

I think we both do.

Got that small ass Asian waist 12-year-old Asian girl.

100%.

So how did this journey start for you?

What was like the first memory that you have of you deciding like, oh, I want to be a fucking bodybuilder?

I'm going to lift.

Lift is different than bodybuild.

Yeah, I was going to say, same with me.

Yeah.

My lifting started as an outlet to get away from home.

My mom constantly got operations on closteatoma she had, which is like a benign tumor, basically.

Okay.

It eats through your skull or it can protrude out the ear.

And she had to have like a false penic membrane, but she had a lot of pain meds growing up.

And one of them at one point in time, I was roughly 15 and a half, 16 years old, about close to junior year of high school.

She was having a lot of seizures from this one medication.

And we basically just thought, like, she's going to die.

She could hardly walk, like, she would have seizures, and she'd be like, she couldn't walk really, she couldn't talk at all.

And I was just like, it was my mom and my siblings, and that's who it was.

And

I was just like, look, it's gonna happen.

Everything else in my life has been shit.

This is obviously going to be the fucking outcome because why the fuck not?

And I just didn't want to see shit.

I don't want to see any of it.

Some of my siblings were reverting to drugs and alcohol.

And I just was like, look, I'm not going to do that.

My friend invited me to the gym.

And we stayed there for four hours after school and because of the time that i was always like able to stay away from home longer um it just became an outlet to stay somewhere else so i don't know if i liked it at first uh first time it's not like the first time i touched a barbell i was like oh this is it i just knew that if i went and did that with my friend every day i didn't have to see what was going on I could just turn the turn my eyes to it.

You know, I'm 14, 15, 16, I couldn't help.

What could I do?

I was already like working and trying to like help pay bills and shit, but I couldn't do anything for her health.

So like, yeah, it just started as that.

She ended up getting better, obviously, toward the end of high school.

And

I had already been training for a long time, and I was still doing sports and stuff.

And then I ended up going to college, and I had a friend named Hawk who wanted to compete in bodybuilding.

He was a super like Zane fan, Frank Zane.

Yeah.

Trained like him, had the Arnold Encyclopedia, which I'd never heard of, like all this crazy shit.

And he was all in on it.

And I was like kind of a jack natural guy.

Yeah.

I said, why don't you do this men's physique show with me?

Guys, I'll be at the Arnold Classic in Ohio from February 28th to March 2nd.

And I'll be there with Young LA at the Young LA booth for basically the entire time.

So if you guys will be in the area or you'll be going to the Arnold Classic, please come by, say hi, come hang out, come talk, ask questions, anything.

I would love to see you guys and I'd love to meet you guys.

And of course, the clothes I'm wearing right now are Young Lay and the new Young Olay drop coming up.

And every time you guys use Code Nile, helps support the podcast and helps us keep this podcast running.

I was like, what the fuck does that mean?

He's like, it's bodybuilding.

And I was like, we got to get on stage and like the thong and like all that shit.

I was like,

I'm good, man.

And we ended up,

I remember my mom had told me a story about how she wanted to get into like fitness competitions is what she would call it.

You know,

she had a really good body.

She was like, what do you think?

What did she tell you that?

Like, through, like, cause I started picking up training and stuff.

And, like, whenever she was finally getting better, she would talk to me about her fitness journey.

And I remember she did like Taibo when I was a kid and stuff like that-the Billy Blank stink uh DVDs.

Remember those the Taibo, where they'll like punch the air, yeah.

My mom did so many of those, yeah, dude, right?

Isn't that funny?

Um,

so she was doing all that shit, and then she told me about the fitness stuff.

I was like, I could, like, do one, I could do this, and like, dedicate it to her, so I did.

Um,

I ended up winning when I got a natural pro card in Mince Physique in like my first show.

Fuck yeah, and then uh, I was like, oh, okay, I i guess i'm kind of good at this because it was my first time getting like shredded because from 15 and a half 16 whenever i started it was train build muscle and i built

the first time i've touched weights i was 115 115 pounds

six months later i was like 160.

so i was like okay

something i have something do you do you have any idea of how much body fat you put on It wasn't a lot, man, because I have like a transformation picture.

And I only went to like crazy huge delts shredded fucking abs I have like a picture of me doing this from bodybuilding.com days I was like 17

and I have the fucking delt vein and my delts are huge and my triceps are bubbly and like like we didn't have all the crazy social media so I didn't blow up as like a phenon or anything but like it was insane like somebody did that shit now that people would be like who's this kid

I had crazy like or he's a fake nanny exactly and I had people dude I had people on the bodybuilding.com's forums like saying all these names of these drugs and stuff.

Like, he's clearly on, like, Trend because, like, the Beans.

And, like, obviously, that's like Winstraw because like the Delts.

You don't get Delts like that.

I'm like, dude, I've been training for six months.

And then I got a nickname in high school called Jerroid.

J-Royd.

Jerroid.

Oh, my God.

Every random drug test, I was called in to randomly drug test.

Oh, no way.

So that's fucking nuts.

Yeah, insane.

But whenever I won that show, I was like, yeah, I could be good at this shit.

Why not?

Let's keep going.

Yeah.

And then

I think the next show I did was a bodybuilding show.

Yeah.

No, I did one more men's physique show and then bodybuilding.

Okay.

Yeah.

How did that go?

The bodybuilding?

Yeah.

Was the first one NPC?

No, the first one was...

I won.

The first one was natural.

But you had to win the overall to get a pro card.

So I won my class.

And then some old man beat me in the overall

and I was like oh this is cool like I'm I'm still winning stuff that's pretty neat even in bodybuilding and then I tore my ACL

took a year off

and then all my friends were exiting college at the same time so we all wanted to do a show together because by that time I had

started a scientific training association at college.

Mike was my professor for a couple years, all that good stuff.

And we prepped for an NPC show because it was the only show that kind of like timed for all of us and i ended up placing fifth in the light heavyweights as a natural and there were like 20 guys so damn yeah

and i went on to get like my natural pro card and all that good stuff those black genetics are crazy dude oh no man

he's fucking black genetics dude i should have stayed in math yeah

i'm thinking about like

freaking um josh minoy

because you know we did that jubilee video and peace so many people are giving him such shit man.

And, like, I've always been on the edge of, like, believing whether or not he was nanny or not.

But I don't like to,

I don't like to claim that I know anything that I don't.

Yeah.

Like, none of us know for sure.

We just make assumptions.

So I don't like to claim knowledge because I feel like that's kind of fake.

And all I know is that he's a good dude.

Half of him is like, I don't remember the fucking like

West African or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I hope this is positive racism.

yeah whatever and then the the third one comedy's fixing everything we're fine

the third one is uh

there's some fucking genetic freaks and like we've seen some stranger things out there and oh absolutely look at like dude the ipe where i was competing uh

i got fifth in the world championships or no ipe international which is right before the world championships

Sam Okanula, who is one of my coaches under me, was 215 on stage.

He's also West African.

Just crazy genetics.

Arms were like bigger than most enhanced guys.

I mean, Doug Miller won the world championships in that for years.

There are people.

There are people that are.

Steve.

Oh, Steve is on my podcast, and he called him Drug Miller.

Oh, did he call him?

Yeah,

everybody called him Drug Miller.

It's like me.

People called me Geroid.

And the craziest part about that is Doug has looked like that for years.

Doug's arms is like, he's like me.

Doug's arms, eight months after he started training, were like the same size they are now.

Genetics are the most important thing in bodybuilding.

People don't realize that.

It is, and it fucking sucks.

Yeah, it sucks.

It's a beauty contest, man.

It's like you touch weights, you realize you're going to have a good physique, and then you pick your poison.

Like whether you were a phenomenal athlete and you sprinted really fast, you go the athletic route.

If you jump really high, you go the athletic route.

If like you start training for hypertrophy and you realize, damn, I got like really good, like cool shape.

And you can't just, you can't describe it when you don't know it, but you're like, well, we know it's like the small joints, the bubbly muscles, but like you look at yourself, there's something different different about that guy.

And people say that when they don't know much about bottom, they're like, I don't know why I look at that guy's physique and I think I want to look like that, but there's something about it.

And it's like the small waist, the big chest, the broad shoulders, the small joints.

Like,

it's the look.

And even whenever you don't know that you look that way, you look at yourself and you're like, I could probably keep doing this.

I could.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, well, I mean, that reminds, that reminds me.

Have you heard the whole thing where it's like,

I'm trying to remember what the exact saying is.

It's not like

you.

It's like your genetics pick the sport.

Yeah.

Yeah, kind of true.

Yeah.

And I think that's true for all sports, really, you know what I mean?

But

I think that,

in my personal opinion, because this happened to me personally.

Yeah.

I never looked great.

I didn't have great genetics when I was a kid.

I was the fucking ugly ass fat Asian kid that everyone thought just was this Chinese kid that ate bow buttons and shit all the time and um

I like never actually ever looked good for like the first like

six years maybe of lifting yeah I started lifting when I was 12

and like I got really skinny at one point

It wasn't until I started competing at my first few shows that I started looking better and better.

But then there were still so many people that look better at me.

Like, I'm gonna be real, like, I don't want this to encourage people to do something they'll regret or like drop into the dark side or something.

I don't know if it's gear that has changed me to be something that's at least noticeable, but

I think it's mostly just training 17 years and then also having support in places that my genetics aren't good at.

And for example, that is, I think.

testosterone levels are probably one place where supplementing with tests has helped me.

Then another place I know for sure is my IGF-1 levels and probably whatever growth hormone systemic is fluctuating through my body.

My growth, my IGF-1 levels on average stood at like 100.

That's the bottom of the reference range.

It's like an old man.

It makes no sense.

Like, why the fuck is it always at the bottom?

Now that I'm taking four IUs of GH, highest I've ever taken,

I'm fucking growing a lot, bro.

And my IGF-1 levels are always in the 400s.

Yeah.

So it's like, well, that's the thing.

It's like just because

you do it, you realize you're good at it, doesn't mean you're going to stick with it.

Yeah.

Some of the people who have the worst, like really bad genetics.

I mean, like, dude, I did, sorry, guys.

I did a seminar in India,

and a lot of the guys have been training for like 20 years and have seen five to ten pounds of muscle growth, but they love it.

You got to love it, but you got to put in the fucking work.

But do they have the best genetics you're putting on muscle?

Obviously, fucking not.

Really slow twitch.

Not a lot of fast Twitch.

Yeah, mine's a really slow Twitch too.

Yeah.

It's my test.

Yeah, so it's like,

do anabolics help with that?

Yeah, of course they do.

And if you've been doing it for a long time and you're capable of making a logical adult decision around that topic and understanding the drawbacks and understanding the side effects and understanding the legality and understanding whatever,

that's your decision ultimately.

You know, I'm libertarian.

Yeah.

More power to you, man.

Just you got to educate yourself on the downsides.

That's the most important part.

Like fuck educating yourself on the upsides.

Like,

you know, steroids work.

Yeah.

Educate yourself on the downsides because that's ultimately where the other side of that decision comes into play.

Right, right.

Where this my decisions can be made.

Like Ziegler Monster said on my podcast before, it was one of my favorite things that I've ever been said on the pod.

I don't know how to speak like fucking

Uncle Ziegler because he's a fucking his dad.

So I'm trying to remember this well.

But it was something along the lines like,

people need to realize that in bodybuilding, there's this level of

that you have to have this level of logical, non-delusional thinking.

Yeah.

That you may be

working towards a goal that might not exist.

And that is what's causing the death for a lot of bodybuilders.

Which sucks because I'm on the other side wanting to give hope because I've been on the place where I'm like dude I'm fucking nothing man like my parents think I'm worthless my mom thinks I'm this ugly fat at fat kid everyone in school is making fun of me even through high school like until I literally started lifting or finished lifting like my seventh year or something I started getting a lot more like I guess you could say like gym validation and shit bro it took me

like

I don't know, is this my 17th year of lifting now or something?

Like, I've only really been in the social media industry doing bodybuilding with at least a decent audience for like four or five years maybe so how long did it really take me I just didn't give up yeah but also you fell in love with it before you ever started shit Yeah, well, you fell in love with the process and you had a level of insecurity that you probably didn't just try to fix with fitness.

You also worked on your mental fortitude.

And when you're berated as a kid, whether it's by parents or colleagues or peers,

and constantly told that

you're nothing,

you either come out of the other end really strong or really fucked up.

Kind of both, honestly.

And yeah, it can be both.

But if you're working on the kind of fucked up,

you have a higher chance of sticking to something.

And like, you know, my childhood was fucked up.

And I had a lot of since I was 12, I've been meditating.

12 years old.

I remember when you were saying that before.

So

not

many people are that in tune, that young with what's going on around them and like developing a worldview that early.

But, you know, the more we can teach younger kids who are kind of like seeing these insane influencers talk about trend and shit like that all the time, the more we can influence them to just kind of like work on their mental health at the same time as their physical fitness

and develop that kind of self-esteem if If that's what they're lacking, that's probably better than just like, yeah, let's take some juice, and maybe then your genetics will show, like, you know, yeah, so I like that a lot, dude.

Um, because I've found in my personal life, and I know a lot of other people that have been in this place too, that uh, especially when you're doing something in this industry, like this bodybuilding thing, and especially if you're doing it enhanced, there's this level of like mental fortitude and stability that's required.

And oh, yeah,

it's an effort.

You don't just have that, you know?

I mean, maybe there's like that 1% that's just like that guy's always just chilling stuff.

But everybody

has these random fluctuations, these crazy thoughts that will come in.

And

I, dude, every single day, I have to tell myself, relax.

Like every single day, I can tell that I'm in a,

I'm just not in like a, I'm this parasympathetic state.

Yeah.

And I just need to tell myself,

relax.

And then all of a sudden, like, I feel it happening.

And it's fucking mind-blowing to me that it works.

Yeah.

That, that and breathing both work.

Yeah.

When they actually work, like, like by science, it works.

Yeah.

It's kind of like who you surround yourself with ends up shaping your personality.

It's your, your thoughts shape you.

It's all that stuff is very true.

It's all true.

So just by sitting here, if I feel myself getting anxious and I'm like, okay, I can either breathe, I can like, you just need to relax.

You just need to relax.

You're good.

Nothing is actually going on.

It's physiological.

It's like, okay, I feel a little better.

What's the most chaotic time that you've ever experienced as a

bodybuilder?

Oh, my God.

I mean, I can give just like a random example.

I don't know about the most chaotic, but I tend to, and you as well, I can tell.

You're a workhorse.

I will bury myself in work.

And unfortunately, I tend to do that when I also begin my preps.

And for some reason, I like to time a lot of work, a lot of work

toward the end of prep.

For some reason, it makes sense, but it doesn't make any sense.

It makes sense, but it doesn't.

It's like, okay, I am so much more organized with when I'm going to go to the gym, when I'm going to wake up, when I'm going to eat my meals, when I'm in that kind of prep mode, then I'm like, okay, my schedule looks very good.

I can just fill it now, and then I fill it, and I forget that my battery starts to kind of like go like this, right?

You know, your total recovery capabilities go down when you're eating less food and when you're draining hard and all that stuff.

Oh, static load, exactly.

And as the diet goes on, it gets less and less, and you get less body fat, and then it gets way less.

So, your battery's like this, but you're working the capacity like this,

and you're constantly just kind of like a steam engine, just like

oh fuck.

So, last year,

I was moving my family in, moving my brother, who you just met, my sister, and my two nieces in with me.

I

shopped for a house,

bought a house, signed with Evijin,

signed another contract, signed a couple NDAs for some work, and

I was

traveling

to locations to film every weekend.

And this was all around three weeks out.

And it was one thing after another.

And I was just,

I was like, what am I doing?

And just bags under my eyes.

And

dude, it was a lot.

So, as far as like hectic,

that was definitely up there.

Because

the process of buying a home is already insane.

And then you add everything else and moving everybody over and

getting them cars and stuff to come live with me and all that kind of crap.

It was just, it was, it was a lot.

It was a lot.

But that's basically every prep all the time.

I mean, I've had preps where like,

you know, found out I was getting cheated on, or I've had preps where like,

yeah, yeah, all kinds of shit.

You know,

yeah, everybody goes through shit like that.

And it's like, wait, what happened, though?

Oh, God.

A big mess.

A big mess of bullshit happened there.

Yeah, but then you get depressed and you still got to go to the gym.

And it is tough, too.

This is why it's tough.

And this is, you know, boohoo, the two semi-zila cerelebrity guys on the couch talking about this stuff, but you're going to relate to this.

You go through this shit, and then you have to go to the gym, and you have to go out in public, and you know you're going to get stopped.

And you know, you can't be a dick, and you know you can't just put your headphones on.

Yeah.

Because you give people the time of day, because you give a fuck, because you're touching lives, and you're changing people's lives, and you care about those interactions being positive ones

and no matter how you feel on the inside um whether that's depressed from going through a breakup anxious because of shit going on back at home with your family like a sister back in jail or mom sick again whatever

uh

you got to go in and do it you still got to do the work and even though You're going to get stopped by people.

Like there were, dude, there were days during that time, I would drive to the gym twice a day before I ever went in.

I would drive, I would get there, I'd sit in the parking lot, I'd see how fool it was.

I'd know people are in there that I know are gonna stop me and like ask for like pictures or like talk about how, you know, like things that they've watched and those types of interactions.

I would sit there and I'd like, you're gonna be fine.

I'll tell myself to calm down.

I'd do all that fun stuff, and it just wouldn't work.

I'd sit there for like 20 minutes.

I'm like, I'm just not going in.

I'll drive home.

Damn.

Go get a meal in and then try again later.

then i would sometimes like a few times a day would do that because there was one point where i was really fucking depressed there was a lot of going on back home my family a lot of going on with like the breakup and uh i just dude i i took a week off of the gym during prep at one point and like that's never happened to me before so

everyone goes through shit like this and you got to understand that and uh

it's okay to go through those periods periods of time and it's a really good time to kind of like work on the mental fortitude aspect lean into the emotions navigate the emotions don't fucking try to blunt them and hide them and throw them away and and you learn a lot about yourself through that process so each time i've gone through a prep and i've packed work on i've learned how to regulate stuff a lot better where to allocate my energy and where not to and things like that so

I'm sure a lot of people listening to this podcast would probably be in the same place as us too, though, in that position.

And I'm I'm sure a lot of people have felt that way, regardless of whether or not people are coming up to them because they're being there, they follow them or because they're friends or people that they know.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

I've been in the same place, like you can ask people at zoo.

I've been in zoo where I come in with a hoodie on and I literally come on with a fucking COVID mask and shit just because I don't want anyone to realize it's me.

I'm so embarrassed wearing the mask when people

have no explanation for why I'm wearing a mask, dude.

That alone, too, me, though, the reason I wouldn't go in

is because I would want to do that shit.

And it made me feel so fucking bad about ignoring people that it made my anxiety worse.

It made me feel like a dick.

I was like,

I'm that asshole.

I like regret.

I regret it a lot whenever that happens and I feel like I'm being a dick.

Because you don't know who came to the gym that day.

Maybe like a day pass came just to see if they'd run into you and like tell you, like, dude, because I've had, you've probably had this too.

Like, oh man, I was going to like commit suicide.

And I found your your videos and it changed my fucking life.

And I lost 80 pounds.

I've met a lot of really cool people.

It's crazy.

A lot of really cool people.

It's cool.

And for me to miss an interaction like that, I'm like, I just feel like a fucking dick.

I think part of the reason why I feel like such a dick, though, because I've always been in the place where I'm just like, I have no energy.

And like,

I just can't do it.

Yeah.

But I think part of the reason is

my best friend who passed away, who always gave other people energy, also reminds me of Joe Statix, who I saw shortly before he flew back to Thailand and then he passed away and while I was with him like at zoo and all these other gyms and places

dude we would be having like a gym session together and a film session together and we would be there for over three hours because every single person that came up to him he would talk to them for like 15 to 30 minutes and it was crazy and I was like wow man like

I'm even struggling right now.

And this is fucking amazing that this guy is just so happy to talk to these people and give them advice and like listen to their lives and like just gives them the time of day like what is the better what what better currency is there than giving somebody your time there's not man it's fucking nuts and it's just a good it's just cool that like

there are people in this like

in these fields and they give a shit about giving back because it's like

I

understand that I like got this level education and I like teach people things and it's really cool but I'm like I'm just just this weird ass dude who like came from Missouri, white trash.

But these people are telling me they look up to me, and I'm like, okay, well, that's neat.

What can I do with that, though?

Like, other than pass the torch of knowledge.

And if I'm going to have an interaction with this person, I want it to be a fucking meaningful one.

I'm not going to just like, look, I don't know why you're coming up to me.

I just feel like I'm a weird fucking guy.

But hey, if you want to have that conversation, let's fucking bullshit a little bit because it's cool as shit that I have that impact on somebody's life.

And I'm not going to make that interaction anything less than really good.

Yeah.

You know,

it's cool to hear Joe was like that too.

I only had one conversation with the guy, but he seemed like really cool.

Yeah, he was, he was really awesome.

He would always like send me messages and give me advice on like my swipes while he was in Thailand and shit.

That's cool.

That was interesting.

That's cool.

I was always like, what does this guy want from me?

But then I just realized he's just a good fucking guy.

So I love that shit.

Yeah.

What are your bodybuilding plans now?

Oh boy.

And how far below the weight cap are you?

I weighed in at 217.

Is that the weight cap?

219.

219 is your weight cap.

Damn, it was crazy.

Yeah, I probably could have lost

three more pounds of fat, but I've put on like three or four more pounds of muscle.

Hell yeah.

So now I'm like, 219 should be pretty good.

It should be pretty shredded.

Okay.

I just put up a comparison on my Instagram today

of where I was at the same point last year, and it's completely fucking different.

And I was like, oh shit, how am I going to make the wake cap?

But we'll get down there.

It's just going to take some struggling.

And

I'm likely going to do a warm-up show prior to the big shows, but Pittsburgh's kind of the shot.

I'm going to aim for that.

I know Kyle's client, Anton, is doing it as well for a classic.

Jose,

he might do it too.

The beast guy.

The beast guy.

Yeah.

Who else might do it?

There's a bunch of big name guys.

These fuckers get shredded, dude.

A bunch of big name guys doing it.

So I was like, oh, that'd be fun.

I'll just fucking pick my ass off.

Why not?

Yeah.

But no, it's, you know, I've done enough small shows.

Taking fifth place in a 20-man call-out's cool.

But no, that's a big deal, bro.

You know, I want to say, I don't know.

It's a big deal in classic, dude.

Classic's so popular even though it's pretty saturated, but you know,

there's always going to be you're always going to let a little bit of shit talking get to you.

And

sometimes it gets to me.

So I'm like, I don't think I go do a big show.

I'm going to get fucking shredded.

I'm going to see where I fall.

And if I get like fifth at like Pittsburgh, and somebody's talking shit, I'm like, shut the fuck up.

I got to get to Pittsburgh.

Get out of my face.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'll be a little bit more apt to talk shit back.

Right.

You ain't shit.

Get out of my inbox.

Like, as much as I fucking hate it, I think it is cool that only first place can get into Olympia now.

Yeah, I like to.

I don't know.

It's just, it's, it's a different feeling.

Yeah.

But I'll give it this year.

Um, if I can't qualify this year, I'll take like one or two years off and I'll give it one more run.

And then unless we come out with non-injectable

like non-androgenic anabolic steroids, I'm just probably done.

I don't know.

Non-androgenic anabolic steroids.

Like, I just,

yeah.

I just want to like

myostatin inhibitors, whatever.

Oh, green stuff, like, whatever it is that we're coming out of.

I've heard of YK.

What is it?

YK, YK11.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

What do you think about it?

I really don't know, man.

I'm not a huge fan of anything that doesn't have a lot of data.

I know.

Me neither.

I've never taken.

I've heard about appetite increasing potentially from YK.

Yeah.

Which is cool if you're massing.

That sounds like a positive benefit.

There's some evidence on what is that thing?

It's like

fuck, dude.

I'm going to sound like a dumbass because I'm brain fighting.

You might not know either.

It's

starts with S.

It's related to inflammation.

Beats me, dude.

Just two idiots talking on the microphones, man.

There's not even a point in me saying this.

Whatever.

There's this aspect of it.

There's this study stating,

oh man, I don't know anything, bro.

That's why you bring on guests.

Oh, yeah.

You brought on the wrong guy for this.

Exactly.

It was like something along the lines of like, I don't know if it was ruins or what they did it on, but it helped.

Actually, it was protective on the organs with a specific

disease.

I can't remember what it's called.

Some kind of organ protection thing would be cool.

The problem with all these things is,

I mean, this is kind of a.

I love Steve to death.

Vigorous Steve.

He's fucking amazing.

Yeah, he made a YK.

I think that these people say things a little too

bluntly with a little bit too much conviction, with a little bit too much certainty.

Right, when the study really doesn't mean very much.

Yeah, rodent studies are tough.

They don't exactly correlate.

And also, we'll just kind of.

Everyone either addresses the study because they want to prove, or they say, oh, it's in rodent models to disprove it.

It's just like

I love physiological conjecture because conjecture of systems working together

makes sense.

And Steve does a lot of conjecture.

He says, this should work this way because of this, but a lot of the stuff with with like

mitochondrial health, for example, a lot of the things are saying, like, well, this will help with mitochondrial health.

I'm like, does it?

Because we kind of already have processes in play in our biology that do that.

Would it potentially?

Absolutely.

Potentially.

But I'm unsure that we can say it with such certainty.

But the cool thing about Steve is he runs experiments on the self.

And

so that's promising.

A lot of the things he says are fucking great.

But a lot of these guys teaching about

a lot of the peptides, I'm just kind of like, yeah, I see where you're coming from, I see what you're saying, but it's probably, it probably doesn't work that way.

Yeah,

yeah.

So, until we have

the whole, the whole aspect of it potentially inhibiting myostan is just so exciting to hear about,

you just don't know like it's gonna happen.

It just sounds like, obviously, to anybody, it sounds dangerous.

It sounds potentially dangerous.

Yeah, I will just fix all the fucking side effects to begin with.

Yeah, yeah.

I wanted to ask this earlier, but when you first started training, though, when you like blew up and get however much when you were natural at first, what was your training and your diet?

Like, do you remember?

I trained all the fucking time.

At that point,

I was in a position to have a job.

to where I was like helping to pay for bills and stuff so I could buy food.

But we would do Hope Center, which is like for poor people.

You go there once a month and you can get a bunch of food.

So I would get like tons of rice and tons of things that I would see people eating online.

Like I was watching a lot of the Matt Ogus Vloss, 3DMJ stuff,

Omar Issu.

I was watching like these people on YouTube when I would get access to computers at school.

And I would eat everybody around me's leftovers at school because like I knew when I went home, I might not have food that day.

And then anything leftover from the Hope Center, whether it was like refried beans, which I just can't eat anymore because of that, or whether it was like leftover bread or just anything I get my fucking hands on, I was shoving down my gullet

because I was training seven hours a day, eight hours a day.

Damn, I would go into the

gym in the morning for about an hour before school.

I had two weights classes, one where I was a TA.

They would let me do that.

I was training in my weights class, then I would train in my TA class.

Then I would go after school for two and a half, three hours with my friends, and then I would go home and I would do,

what were those

not was it p90x yeah p90x i would do like a couple of discs of p90x but it's all i did after i started doing it fucking p90x man

i feel like everybody did it that's that's where all the games come from that's where it came from man i was like following tony whatever the fuck his name was

but yeah i was training like a fucking animal it was just hard hard hard training all the fucking time and then uh eating anything I could get my hands on legitimately.

Yeah.

So what would you say is probably the cause of that massive spike?

Would you just say it's newbie gains?

Yeah, 100%.

Great genetics and newbie gains.

Yeah.

If you have really good genetics, you get away with a lot of dumb shit.

Yeah.

I mean, like bodybuilders back in the day, like Tom Platz trained his quads once a month toward the end of his career.

He just blasted the fuck out of them.

You said towards the end of his career?

I believe so.

Isn't that because he was trying to prioritize the rest of his body?

Yeah.

And his quads still stayed gigantic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pretty crazy.

Yeah.

you tell an indian guy to go train his quads once a month you see michaela acox transformation yeah she's like the opposite of tom plants right literally what was it was it like one to two years where she was literally just hitting legs only for three times a week yeah that was crazy and it worked yeah it worked like see how hard she had to work then like yeah genetics are a motherfucker dude yeah like you can tell just how much work she put in and how proud she is of that transformation she should be she should be yeah she got one of the craziest physiques like i wish women's bodybuilding rewarded that kind of conditioning.

No, for real.

I really wish it did.

Terrence and I were talking about this too.

He says that one of his favorite things to follow is women's bodybuilding because you know, like, these women do not get a lot from being women's bodybuilders.

Like, they literally just do it purely for the love of the sport.

Yeah.

So, um, it's not fucking yeah, they get fucking criticized.

When I got to work with Hunter,

I had a long time working with Hunter last year.

Hunter Henderson.

She made it to the Olympia and everything.

She got like 11th, I believe.

But I got to put her through some sessions and me, her and Joe work together.

And she is just one of the most phenomenal athletes I've ever gotten to work with, legitimately.

All her fucking check-ins were like emotional state, physical state, anything extra going on in her life, precise details about when she should or should not like have her period or when she's supposed to do this and this.

I was just like, everything was just like fucking checklist.

Like the organization of a female is just nuts.

I was like, this is the most beautiful check-in I've ever gotten in my life.

That's awesome.

I would just point by point.

Good, great.

Okay, here, you're saying this.

What do you mean by this?

Let's try this.

And it was just, it was so good.

It was the easiest thing to do.

That's dope.

Yeah.

Phenomenal athlete.

Those women are fucking impressive.

Yeah.

I love it whenever coaches ask for both like your emotional state and your

physical state.

I just love that part.

Yeah, especially in like bodybuilding, dude, enhanced bodybuilding, you got to ask about the emotional state.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah.

Like, you don't know what's going on in your athlete's brain.

You put, get on a 19-nor and it's like the worst thing possible for them.

Yeah.

You should probably know that.

There's other shit out there.

You put them on more DHT if they're like, hey, I'm having thoughts about like, like, Mike, I'm having thoughts about like killing everyone.

Oh.

And you're on MPP.

Let's get you off that.

You know, like, you should probably know that.

Like, what the fuck?

Yeah.

A lot of coaches just don't really coach, man.

Yeah, that's unfortunate.

But there's a, I've been blessed to see that there's a lot of coaches, people like you too, people like Kyle.

Yes.

I've really enjoyed talking to Patrick Tor recently as well.

Yeah, he seems so bright.

A lot of the shit.

He's very, very wise.

And the way he speaks, even it's like emotional and spiritual in a weird way, which is cool for a bodybuilding coach.

You know, you don't really expect that.

You know?

Yeah.

I actually just checked to see if Kyle was a.

He should be here in like, what, 10 minutes or something?

He said he's on a lift right now.

Yeah.

I think he'll be here in like 10.

Just asking the ETA.

I'm gonna run to a restroom real quick and then let's do this QA for the questions that they ask.

Perfect.

Because they ask you so many.

Fred's so popular.

Was it really a lot?

Yeah, they asked you a lot.

We're not gonna get through all of them.

How many were about my hair?

How many were about my hair?

Now I want to pause.

I'll just sit here and sing.

Thanks for coming, Dan.

Of course.

I'm talking to Nile while he takes a shit, guys.

Are you rubbing one out?

Are you thinking about me?

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Did you ever have issues with NPP, by the way?

Me?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bye-bye, cock.

Like everybody.

Mastron did that to me too.

Mastron did that to you?

For a month and a half.

Really?

And I need to increase my test to like 800.

Wow.

Crushed my E2.

That's so crazy.

Because a lot of people feel more horny on Mastron, though.

I wish.

Damn.

It does do weird things, though.

The weird E2.

I don't really understand Mastron's interesting E2 suppressions.

No.

My ET is already really low.

I took 1.2 grams of tests when I was mashing to the open

and my Mastrodot was at the low end.

How often do you inject?

Multiple times a week.

Like POD-ish.

Every other day.

Ish.

Do you think it would help if you injected less?

No, I huge values and then have a radical dip.

It just wouldn't be.

Yeah, I'd probably get gyno because of that.

Even though your ETU is already low.

Yeah.

But, you know, you'd have stronger shifts in that.

Yeah, and that's what causes all the side effects.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mr.

Jared Feather.

Who's that?

What a dumb fucking name.

Jananton Foreign Year.

Ask 100k.

Would you rock in an obnoxious BBL for one year?

If I get 100K.

Yeah.

I think you already have one.

Let's say obnoxious.

So let's say 3x the size of mine.

100k.

Yeah, 100k.

Increase the price, homie.

I don't know what to say.

Yeah.

100k.

100 million, maybe.

100k, and you will never

get to Olympia.

Yeah.

Oh, Kyle's calling

dicks for fingers or vaginas as ears dicks for fingers or vaginas as ears.

I feel like the female orgasm is impressive.

I could get my ears fucked.

Yo, what's up, bro?

Dicks for fingers?

Oh, where are you right now?

I don't know in front of the building, I guess.

Right, because I don't know in front of the building, I guess.

Here we go, I'm coming.

I did.

I did.

What up, Kyle?

It's like I just saw you, man.

How was all that?

How was all that fucking travel?

13?

Good lord, my man.

Where's your hotel?

It's close to you where yours is, I believe.

Oh, okay.

I thought you were driving home.

No, no, no, no.

Hotel.

Those two just got to get back.

Oh, so they can't stay too long.

Yeah.

I'd prefer not to.

You can say, he can stay.

We'll bond on the way home.

I got you.

If we can all feel

it, like I said, it's only a 30-minute drive after rush hour, so.

You think so?

No, I know so.

I live here.

Okay.

All right.

I like the floor.

An hour, 30 minutes.

That's crazy.

Oh, it is.

Anyways, guys, if you don't know who these people are, what you really do, we've got Coach Kyle Wilkes and our big old Jared Feather here.

Even though we had a little complicated situation in getting this together today.

But I'm really happy that we're finally here at um 6 30 p.m

because kyle got his um meal voucher so i think we're all happy meal voucher it's crazy 30 meal voucher that's crazy

but we're here yeah and we're all five bucks an hour early for the expo what's up so we're like five or six bucks an hour for my delay sorry the minimum wage man

oh man what are your next plans for the uh the next few months with coaching and uh bodybuilding You know, preps for the Olympia myself.

You're with Anton in New

Jersey.

New Jersey.

And then prep for the Olympia yourself?

Yeah, you know.

Yeah.

No, I mean, plans for myself, I've just been pretty much on my A game, dieting, not missing any meals, training again.

Your draw looks extra shredded.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm in better shape than I have been in.

Had a nice two-year layoff, so we'll see what I can do.

But coaching is the priority, and then obviously we have a decent client we can say that we have to make sure we get it right so i don't want to impede he's not bad

yeah bro's a fucking monster dude yeah i just um

i think it's so weird that

people like greg have to make

somewhat condescending videos

obviously of course it's always for views like he just i think they just posted a video with eric where he like said dr mike is actually like s tier or something in terms of his content,

which I think

is kind of wild.

Which I think we just ignore him, positive, negative, we don't give a fuck.

The team doesn't exist.

He really doesn't.

But I mean, all things considered though, like

I think Nick has put in a lot of work.

And one of the things that I stand for and how he's been pushing and what he's done in the past is like, for example, when he encountered all these issues and decided to drop out of shows, people were giving him, him, well, some people, not everybody, there's a lot of people that support him, but like, obviously, there's some people that are going to give him shit for that.

But me,

yeah.

But I'm curious what you guys think about this.

But me being in the same perspective, where the last show I did, I had a knee injury and I decided I just already bought my flight to Florida, the Florida Pro.

I'm going to go anyways.

I walk on stage, and as you saw from all my check-ins,

my freaking weight just went up and it was hard to go back down.

And I don't don't know why, but inflammation and stress seems like the most obvious answer.

So in my, in my mind, I'm like,

I'm sure Greg, I don't know if Greg says exactly how he feels in his videos, but I do feel like with Greg being a proponent of health and how he always discusses that, you know, PEDs cause health complications and it's something that people need to be aware of.

I would think that in someone's place like Nick's, if he he is really hurt or he's just as unable to compete to the ability that he knows is required,

why go through the extra last few days that are the most dangerous with the PEDs, the dehydration, the health complications when you could save your health and then wait for a better show?

Yeah.

Exactly, which is why he believe he did do that.

Yeah.

Didn't, you know, stopped, made an intelligent decision and then got shit for it by a guy who claims to be a proponent of health.

Weird.

It's almost like he only does shit for content.

Yeah, I think anybody that knows Nick

understands he's like a robot.

So he doesn't miss meals.

He doesn't not do his cardio.

So when he was getting those allegations, I guess you can call them, it's kind of just laughable.

But again, to the person that doesn't know Nick, the average bodybuilder usually does cheat on their diet, doesn't do their cardio.

So I understand where the thought process comes from, but when you have somebody at that level, and if you've ever watched any of how he trains, what he represents, it's the complete opposite.

So, you know, I feel bad, but it's also been the story of Nick's career.

He's always gotten heat from day one before he was even a pro.

So to me, it's not new.

I'm sure it gets annoying at some point.

But when you have people that

their primary agenda is to make the best content possible, that is going to get the most clicks.

I understand from a business perspective, as far as from a moral perspective and kind of being hypocritical to a degree being that you're saying you want to kind of focus on being health focused and then

when it comes to a decision where someone's pulling out it's not because they were fat or not in shape it was because there was a problem and maybe the person doesn't want to state the problem or you don't want to change it but i just don't agree with um i don't know taking that approach but that's just you know i've learned over the years that not everyone is going to carry themselves the way I would or be professional about it.

But when you start to kind of,

I don't know, kick a man when he's down, that says something about you, in my opinion.

I prefer to just everyone let the results speak for themselves.

But,

well, what was I trying to think?

How did you guys,

how did your relationship start with Nick?

Want to go first?

Go ahead.

Ours are pretty different.

Yours was a fun story.

Interesting enough, you know, I've always been someone that is calculated with a lot of things that I do.

And growing up in New Jersey, it's a pretty competitive state for bodybuilding.

You see a lot of good guys in the tri-state area, especially before Florida became a big hub and, you know, Alphaland and Texas and things like that.

Nick was an up-and-coming bodybuilder.

He was about a year younger than me, and he started making some noise.

At the time, I started coaching back in 2016, and I was competing myself actively, doing my best to try to be the best bodybuilder, try to be the best coach, and just develop as a human being.

But Nick was starting to gain traction, you could say,

to where people realized he obviously had a gift.

He had a very unique look to him.

He was very freaky.

And

my clients would send me, you know, what do you think of this kid?

And at the time, fuck this kid, you know,

he's got crazy potential.

I wish I could look like that.

But as I would look into it more, he was just making really good progress.

And I already noticed that he was starting.

This is back when he had 10,000 followers, maybe.

What year was this?

Do you remember?

2017.

Okay.

People were already starting to say things because he was literally posting updates week after week, gaining three pounds a week, conditioning holding.

He was just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

So I think that was going to 2018.

So anyway, I shot him a message one day.

I was like, look, man, I was like, I think you look great.

Like, keep doing your thing.

Ignore the negativity.

Something along those lines.

I'd have to go back and check.

But

I kind of planted a seed in my head i'm like cool maybe i'll harvest a seed later you know so i was just trying to i guess for me i've always been someone if i respect what someone's putting in the work they're putting in what they represent their attitude i'm the first one to say that by all means you know and

i guess i'll stand by that and then as far as with nick he had started posting a lot of training videos and he posted a video at a local gym, the Jersey Shore Fitness Shop.

For those of you that had the chance to go there in New Jersey, it's like a OG gym.

It's like a dungeon, has all great old equipment.

Open 24-7, 365.

This was on the Jersey Shore.

What is this?

No, no, it's just a cold Jersey Short Fitness Shop, ironically.

And it's close to the beach, but very old school, so just have that mindset.

And he was there and he was lifting, I think, like 160-pound dumbbells, which no one touched those kind of dumbbells generally.

Oh, awesome.

And he posted, and I sent him a message.

I said, I know you train in my neck of the woods.

And he said, I train anywhere.

I love gyms.

And I said, okay.

And then

he said, you come here often.

I said, that's where I've been training.

And I said, I didn't know you live around here.

He's like, I live an hour and a half away.

I said, oh, you just like checking out gyms.

Legit, cool.

And then he had messaged me and said,

maybe we can train sometime next time I come around.

I said, no problem, man.

I'm there every night, seven o'clock.

I had a regular corporate job at the time.

And, you know, I go right from work to the gym.

And he said, maybe later this week we'll catch something.

Next morning, I wake up to a text and

he said,

are you training today?

I said, yeah, seven o'clock.

He's like, what do you got?

I said, back.

He said, okay, I'll meet you there.

I said, all right.

And the first time we met, he kind of gave me the reins right away.

He said, you lead, I'll follow.

And to me, again, I was already looking up to him in a way, like, this kid's making crazy progress.

I'm doing decent coaching, but from an athlete standpoint, he dominates me, you know?

And that was kind of the start of everything.

And we literally would train together every day, same time, same gym, for about a year.

And that's how our relationship really started.

I guess I skipped over the one part about the programming, remember?

Yeah, yeah.

You think I should add that in?

Yeah, for sure.

It's a good story.

So prior to

me noticing he was training in a local gym, I was following a training program from John Meadows.

I beat John Meadows, also JI.

Yes.

And I noticed Nick was posting his training, and he was following following one of the programs.

I don't know if it was like Colossus or Avalanche, one of the programs, but John Metals, they still sell them today on MountainDog.com or whatnot.

And I had followed, I had bought two programs already at the time and Nick was following this new one.

So I said, okay, you know, at the time, I'm trying to be a little frugal, save some money.

I said, how do you like this program?

Love it.

I said, I have an idea.

Have you ever tried these programs?

No.

I said, I'll give you two for one.

He said, nah, bro, I'm good.

So right then and there, I was like, you know, fuck this kid.

Like, forget it.

Like, does it make any sense from a logical standpoint?

Like, do your thing.

But, um, so we still laugh about it to this day.

But, you know, it was just like, whatever, man, this kid is great at what he does, but maybe financially, I don't know.

It doesn't make sense to me, but do your thing.

So that's kind of how we had started.

And through the years, you know, I've always been rooting for him, however I can support him.

At first, it was as his training partner.

You know, I would try to do my part, and he was working with Matt at the time.

That's when he started working with Matt.

I just did my part the best I could to try to help Matt if Matt ever needed me for anything.

And then we took a couple trips to see Matt in person.

That's when Nick first met Matt.

If you don't mind me asking, like, what kind of help would Matt ask of you?

I just had come to the first, like,

I guess you could say, 3-1.

Because I was training every day with him.

At the end of the day, I think I had reached out to Matt at one time and just asked him if everything was okay with the way we were training, if he had any problems, because me as a coach, I know sometimes, depending on how my athlete's training, I might not like it, you know, and I want to step in.

And he was cool with everything.

You know, Nick kind of was able to continue training how he did.

I don't think Matt made him follow something specific other than like just

said, hey, you're going to hit chess or whatnot.

So that was like my first reaching out.

And then Matt was his, I think his second son was being born at Nick's first, not his first show, but in 2017, where Nick had gotten, it was 2017, right?

Yeah.

He had gotten second at USA's.

He lost, unfortunately.

And Matt was unable to be at that show.

So I was just kind of there to try to do my part and help.

Because sometimes when you're in person, obviously there's a look that's a little different from in pictures.

And that was generally it.

So, you know, I just kind of gave Matt my thoughts, kept Nick composed.

There was a lot of stressful situations arising with the tan and him sweating and all of that.

And then obviously after pre-judging, when you're

they purposely, when there's an even number, you don't know if you win or not, right?

You're not positive.

So, just trying to keep him calm and collected was the role I guess you could say I played.

And that was really that.

So, since then, our relationship has had its ups and downs through the years, but we've always stayed in touch.

And at the heart, I always want to see the best friend.

I want to see him win the person I think he could be from a bodybuilding standpoint.

I do too.

That's really cool to hear.

Also,

a little bit back to the whole checking out gyms thing.

I feel like we were all like when we were in their 20s.

Oh, yeah.

If we really loved working out, we were all just like exploring different gyms.

I feel like that was our normal feeling.

For sure.

Plus, I mean, that's like probably the age he was, right?

Like that was like, what, eight years ago or something?

So, what, maybe like early 20s?

Yeah, I mean, I was 25 at the time, 24, 25, 25.

But yeah, now I think in our contemporary era, there are a lot more equipped gyms that we see from social media that are popping up.

But even just eight years ago, there wasn't that many gyms like that.

Here's your typical LA fitness.

I saw 24-hour fitness around the corner from here.

Things like that, which were okay.

Obviously, people made progress.

But I think the ability for someone to progress with even better equipment is easier to find these days.

100%.

We met Vegas.

Just flat out.

That's how I met Nick.

We just,

like, he had already kind of heard of us.

I'd already really heard of him.

We We saw each other in the gym a bunch.

We'd say, what's up?

At some point, I was like, hey, man, we'd love to

train together.

He was prepping at the time for the Olympia and the Arnold.

So he was like, I really want to, but let's put it off until after these shows.

And then we finally got to go through a session together.

And I controlled his training from that point forward because he loved it for quite some time.

When was this again?

2022, 2023.

Which year was it?

2023?

That was one of those.

It was 23, I think.

You guys tend to know a lot about each other.

We do our research.

You guys had some bro chats?

We have.

Yeah.

We got some chat for like a few days in Florida just last week.

Oh, no way.

What was that for?

Nick.

Oh, yeah.

We actually like to see our clients in person, you know?

That's not a shade, I promise.

I sounded like shade, but.

Sorry.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Sorry for it.

It was great.

Yeah, it was good.

It was a good time.

Well, we got to train together and stuff, and it's cool because Kyle's starting off

basically, like you said, getting pretty serious into training and stuff again so he actually let me uh put him through some stuff too which was dope as hell because that is the first thing me and with me and kyle um

we had to get on a phone call immediately because like kyle said if he doesn't like the way somebody's doing stuff so he wanted to kind of suss me out and you know i wanted to see because me and nick had a conversation too i was like look if kyle tries to be like like your old coach was with the training stuff i'm just not about it i i don't want i don't want to help and he's like no dude you're going to be in my training trust me you and kyle just talk and like and we had a conversation it was really good We both agree on basically everything.

And we know when to keep

each other updated.

Like, he just texted me today, telling me he's going to do some modifications to diet.

So there's certain points in time when we really need more contact.

So, like, hey, what are you doing here?

We're 10 weeks out now.

Are you doing anything different with supplementation or the food?

And then I'll make modifications to the training.

I'll show Kyle.

And then we just have happened to agree on basically all points there.

It's been really fun.

That's fucking awesome.

That's been cool as shit, dude.

It's like any other spoil that actually has a multiple coaches.

Exactly.

It's been a cool collaborative effort.

Dope.

Do you mind me asking when you were stating, hopefully, he's not doing training like your old coach, what exactly you meant?

There was just a lot of interjection and interference.

And

another person in his ear saying, like, well, I think you should only train three or four days a week.

And I'm like, Rath of the Gago.

I was like, Nick, this is not going to cut it.

I'm telling you right now, it's not.

And he's like, yeah, but I really want his input too.

So I was working around a few people.

I see.

I see.

And then it just got to the point where

he got in his ear enough for me to stop doing it.

And then he realized later, after all these kind of setbacks, like, I made so much progress doing things that way.

Why did I stop?

He made a lot more progress training with you

while following the other protocols, the man's program.

Okay.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

And then, so that's why he reached out to me to begin with.

Wow.

Was like, he actually made that video a while back about.

about the whole topic on that.

So you guys could watch that.

It was a pretty good video.

It was

RP.

Yeah, it it was cool, man.

I'm just glad that he took to it as well.

And like, I'm able to be that guy in his corner, keeping him safe and keeping him progressing really well.

I just, uh, I'm glad that he enjoyed it.

And,

you know, not everyone enjoys doing it that way.

A lot of people just want to go in and fucking bang heavy weights.

And I get it because that's kind of how we all started.

And if you're not completely destroyed yet and you can keep doing that and you love it, fucking more power to you, dude.

But after a while, and you wait for some, like, you start to feel the joints a little, you get more advanced in your career, you want to see more progress, you know, maybe then try something different.

This may not be too special or anything.

It's just my personal account.

But

after listening to all these different types of training methodologies, the way that I've started training in the past, maybe half of a year to a year now, has been

whenever I progressive overload and I write down what I progressive overloaded on, whatever I PR'd on.

For that, I do do a little bit of cheating, depending on how, but I make a mental note of that form, right, and try to make it consistent.

But if I really want to push that next rep and I know it's there, I will for the sake of, you know, increasing that logbook, you know, increasing the dopamine of me, seeing those numbers go up.

But

in every other portion of my workouts, I've noticed for me, regardless of whether or not I'm going full range of motion and slowing the eccentrics or not,

the failure point is reached the same.

But I always felt more soreness and more pain when I was training with you guys, which to me, I was like, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it feels right.

And also,

I tend to be more careful with my joints when I'm doing so.

100%.

It feels better.

And that's so I've been doing that.

And then also implementing like SST sets, intensifiers or

time-lengthening sets, such as like Patrick Torres, SST sets, where you do like rest pause sets,

for example.

I'm not going to go into like crazy nuances of all that shit when it's good, when it's probably not, and stuff, but like it's tough to try.

I think they're just better points in time.

Like, me and Claude actually had this chat about the periodization aspect of the training and why I do things a certain way, why he's in specific rep ranges at the start of prep versus different rep ranges and different intensity techniques toward the end of prep, how that helps hold onto lean tissue better than certain aspects of this training because now he has all this recovery capability, he has all this food, now he doesn't, so we should probably add in a little bit extra intensity techniques, reduce the load, keep his axial fatigue low.

It's periodization and smart programming, and

it all starts from the fundamental of using correct technique and effort.

Effort.

I'm glad that said, too, because I think one of the hardest things that people find when they're...

Whether they're like listening to your content and then they're trying to devise their own program, because most people listening to this podcast, most of you guys don't have coaches, and I understand that.

That's fine.

Some of us can't even.

Having a coach is expensive for a lot of people.

And it's also a very

kind of like direct path.

I have a coach for a purpose.

The coach is to get me to a stage.

Not everybody listening to this, or not everybody who bodybuilds is a bodybuilder.

There's the sport aspect of bodybuilding, and then there's bodybuilding.

They're different.

But I feel like it's taken me 17 years to find the perfect amount of sets, the perfect amount of intensity for me to hit without overdoing it or not doing enough.

And it took me my own personal experience to add those intensifiers and then realize that I was forced to do multiple weeks of deloading because I was fucking injured or my tendons were just way too inflamed and in pain.

That's why I said I was doing too much.

That's why I say deload, either implement deloads or your body will deload for you.

Yeah, it definitely did.

So, um, but it's cool to hear that because I feel like as bodybuilders, that's one of the funnest things is like we have to experiment with our own bodies.

So then we figure out, you know, what our numbers are.

And ultimately, that's what Nick did, right?

Like Nick experimented over the course of his career.

He realized he really enjoyed what we had done together over the course of a few months.

And he came back and hired Kyle and then told Kyle.

And Kyle's like, yeah, let's see what he has to say.

And they brought me on and fucking happy to be here.

Dude, Kyle's fucking great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you were training with Nick at one point while he was with Matt and then he went back to Matt for a bit.

Not exactly.

It was like Matt kind of had like a lot of things to say.

I think he just kind of implemented some things he was doing with other clients that probably didn't work the best for bodybuilding purposes because he was kind of doing other stuff.

That's just kind of like my opinion.

I don't really know.

and then Nick kind of just started to train again in that capacity of like more, would you say, like, hit style?

It was like all-out couple sets.

And I feel like I don't want to derail the conversation because I have input, but the way Nick was training, it was basically one max effort set, yeah, one back off set, like hit style, right?

So, go ahead, yeah.

And so he went to back to that and realized, fuck, that's not really keeping my muscle.

Yeah, and uh, then after all this stuff that went down, he came back over.

Okay, What was your input?

So what I was going to say, when you have an athlete like Nick at his caliber, when you have someone that has good genetics, to say the least, someone that listens, they don't miss a meal ever, they sleep, eat, breathe, bodybuilding, that is like a dream client.

So the fact of the matter is when it comes to training, at the end of the day, Nick was always going to be a big kid.

He was big in high school.

The kid was 220, I think it was a senior in high school.

People don't even get to 220 ever, right?

So when he was training, with me, for example, we ultimately, and I'm sure he told you, we probably trained too hard.

We did too much, too much crazy shit, heavy lifting, intensifiers, everything.

But at some point, your body needs a change.

So even you had mentioned it's taken you 17 years, old damn, 17 years to find what you want.

I think the reality is what you may have found works for a certain period of time, but then life changes a little bit.

Sometimes people change their training because at a moment of impact, they get injured.

Something drastic like that happens.

You have to change your training if you're going to continue in the sport and things like that.

So, when Nick was doing this max effort back offset, it helped him to a degree.

Do I think it was the best thing he should have done?

Probably not.

Research shows that there are other types and styles of training to incorporate.

But, you know, at the end of the day, it got him results.

But at the end of the day, I have to repeat that twice, fix that.

I think I look at it, Nick was like a Porsche, okay?

And he just needed to be polished, and it was great.

I always look back to clients that are trash, okay, at Toyota Corolla.

How do you make that into something really good?

So when you have Nick at this elite level already, to get him to the next level, that really takes proper programming, proper coaching,

and just keeping him in the right mindset.

So that's like my opinion on it is any type of training would have got Nick pretty far.

But where you'll see Nick get to now, how he will continue to make improvements, how you see top-level guys get better and better.

Generally, they need to hone in on training.

And that's where I think a lot of people miss.

They keep going back to this work when I was 20.

Well, guess what, you had an injury.

You're 30.

Shit don't work the same anymore.

You have a lot of stress.

You've been banging gear for a long time.

You can't lift the same anymore.

Whether you liked it or not doesn't matter because are you focused on making the most progress?

Are you focused on becoming an influencer?

What is the goal and intention?

With Nick, he wants to win the Olympia.

That's the number one goal.

Whatever else comes with it, comes with it.

But that is where his mindset is.

And you don't have athletes like that, a lot of the listeners.

Maybe they don't want to do a show.

That's fine.

I encourage you to try different training styles.

Try RP.

I think it could be great for you.

Try John Meadows programs.

I think that could be great for you.

Until you find what you enjoy the most.

Because once you lose the fun in lifting, that's going to drive you away from it.

So I always tell people, they'll ask me for my programming.

At some point when you're continuing to make progress, why would I change the training program?

You're making progress.

You look way better.

Are you bored?

Okay, I understand.

If you're bored, now you're going to go into the gym, meander, not be engaged, not train with intent, not train with intensity and effort, which I think is the direct variable that makes all of the systems work,

then we need to change something.

Whether or not we should, because of the progress we're making, you're telling me you're not enjoying it anymore.

So it's like a relationship that's not working.

And the person keeps telling you, hey, I'm not happy with this.

You need to change this.

And then you keep ignoring it.

What's going to happen?

The inevitable.

Right.

I think that was really well put, by the way.

Um, I think one thing that would be really great to address, um, I think most, I think a lot of experienced bodybuilders that are listening to this podcast already understand this, but I think this is something that most people in general don't really comprehend about the bodybuilding industry is one of the reasons why training is so discussed on every bodybuilding podcast, why we love talking about different forms of training that we've done.

Is,

you know, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but

to me everybody's taking about the same type of ped regimens and nutrition

it is very it is very variable but it's like if you're eating enough calories you're gonna grow then when you're in a deficit you're gonna lose and then you add all the other specifics on top of that right but everyone knows what typical bodybuilding diet looks like right right it's it's they're all both of those things are pretty consistent and then if you're pushing gear for a long time

like we've all discussed this on so many podcasts like for some people they found a sweet spot it's like you can't just keep pushing up because at a certain point, you're instead, you're just driving up inflammation

and you're also driving up these side effects that are also going to cause your progress to derail, right?

Or

come back.

So it's like you can't just keep pushing those things up.

What's the stimulus that you can change, though, consistently?

And it just seems to be training is the one thing that's like, we don't have very direct evidence on this is the exact type form that you should train.

And

there's different methods that respond well for different people right like i had i've gotten myself tested i am primarily of slow twitch fibers and i have also noticed in the last 15 years of training that higher reps higher volume especially seems to work the best for me if it's not high volume i don't respond as well other people are totally different right

so um

i think that's where the special thing comes in i mean would you guys agree with that?

Yeah, training is that one variable that like most people need to hone in on a little better.

And that is kind of the thing, like, Kyle was discussing

as you advance.

Hopefully, you don't have to get to the point in your career where it's an injury, like an acute catastrophic injury that makes you change.

But

be very

body-aware of how you're feeling and what your training is making you feel like.

And when it's time to make a change, it's time to make a change.

Like, if you constantly have elbow tendinitis because of the way you're training, or you constantly have some sort of weird shoulder and pinging thing going on,

it's probably time to look at that.

Those are clearly movement issues.

And if we can just, you know, the conversations that have been had around training are fucking awesome because a lot of most people at the top are saying the same shit.

This is, you know, we're all really fucking nerdy, brainiac people who give a shit about these variables.

And most guys are saying similar stuff.

You know, try to train a four-inch emotion most of the time.

Slow down the eccentric a little bit.

You know, that's probably too fast.

Don't be training

your muscles only one time a week.

You probably won't get the best results.

Just most guys are saying similar shit.

and

that information wasn't as accessible, you know, 30 years ago.

Oh, no, so it's cool.

We're all able to have these conversations, and it is absolutely that one variable that everybody has a little better control over because we're not in charge of if, like, I can handle five grams a gear or not.

Some people fucking can't.

I can't.

And unfortunately, that is the route some guys take is this that kind of variable.

And then they realize, oh shit, my health's failing.

And instead, let's look at the nutritional component and the the training components first.

This is all coming together for me, by the way, because I had no idea how you guys met Nick and stuff.

And it makes a lot of sense now that it's kind of cool to hear that you've always been there as

a friend of him and someone that he's known.

It only kind of makes a lot of sense that he goes back to somebody who knows him.

And that's where

I think a lot of people in the beginning, I know when we had our first discussion, he was going to get shit

from more or less for choosing me oh he's not a known coach he doesn't know what he's doing who is this reality is i've been there from day one yeah i've been there from day one i've trained with all the top people yeah maybe i didn't have my opportunity because i think a lot of these top coaches The spoiler alert is the athlete will look good with whoever they're with.

Do they look better with you, yes or no?

That is where it makes a difference.

You see a lot of athletes this year changing coaches.

If they're going to look better, guess what?

Something's changed.

And it wasn't the gear.

yeah you know exactly yeah so i think that's something to pay attention to and one thing you you touched on the from a genetic side of things i think one of the two most important genetic factors is one how well someone can handle gear can someone shake their tolerance exactly and then the other is like fat distribution I think, especially from an influencer side of things, when you're trying to build something, sometimes people just, they have ripped abs, they hold body fat in their arms, that's like the ideal guy body.

And then you have other people that have feathered quads, not to play on your name um we're just talking about and then their stomach is just you know atrocious and all their feathers

i think those are two huge genetic components to uh pay attention to and you don't get to control those you don't that's mom and dad you know yeah sorry jared i know damn fat ass over here

might as well pay that 100k for the bbl i think so dude that's crazy

i think that's a really good point and i think a third thing also is uh

injury resilience is a very genetic component that people don't talk about often.

There have been a ton, and I'm sure you can name some, especially from fucking Jersey, because they were hardcore back in the day.

There was always that guy who was going to compete at a national level, who it was the next guy, the next big thing.

And then you just never heard about him again.

Like, what happened to this guy?

Well, he blew both his fucking quads off the bone.

And it's just like,

had that guy been a little smarter with his training, that shit wouldn't have happened.

But it was just a thing, man.

Grit your teeth and work in the cold.

That was the way of the East Coast.

And there were so many dudes who were in and out because they trained just not great.

So,

again,

genetically, injury resilience is huge.

So, fortunately, with all the crazy 160, 200-pound dumbbell pressing Nick had done in the past, like, he just super resilient to injury.

Like, he just never.

That's mind-blowing, man.

Yeah.

But that's a huge genetic opponent.

Like, dude, if I did,

I'm insanely strong with pressing.

And if I overdo my chest volume, I'll twinge my peck every fucking two months.

You know what I mean?

Like, I have low injury resilience.

So I got to be very careful with compound selection.

I got to be very careful with my training volume.

That's probably why I decided to be so meticulous with training at such an early, early age because I was always getting hurt in football.

I was always getting hurt doing stupid shit.

I was like, why do I get hurt all the time?

So

I figured out how to train properly.

My dad's not even a bodybuilder, bro.

And he has the same shoulder impingements I do.

What are you doing?

You're walking.

Oh, my God.

Wake up.

Like, wow, everything hurts.

Great genetics.

I think,

I don't know if it's ever really been studied, but at least anecdotally, most injuries that aren't catastrophic, okay,

example, running into a wall, right?

Unless you're

pushing your dog from the couch.

It was a car.

But anyway,

most of the time, there are signs your body gives you.

Absolutely.

As you're mentioning, right?

Something feels weird.

And when you constantly, when you're young, if something feels weird, if you can't get off the couch, you can't get off the toilet, that's a problem.

If you're 20, 22, 25 years old, and you're having problems, what do you think is going to happen by the time you're 35, 40, 50?

You're not going to be able to do anything, right?

So that's a sign that your body's giving you.

Hey, change what you're doing, or I'm going to change it for you.

And sometimes you get injured, and then you have that, you know, aha moment where you obviously have to change something.

But in other cases, as you mentioned, in the northeast,

a lot of people train very hard.

And then unfortunately, some of them would get hurt.

And, you know, I don't think it's a weather thing.

I think it was the way and style of training that causes that.

But I think it's also the person being a little ignorant or thinking that everyone always thinks it can't happen to me.

They think they're resistant, they're resilient.

Because when you're 18, 19, how many people that are 18, 19, 20 do you see suffer a significant injury?

Very rarely.

You have to be doing something really stupid or have something that has nothing to do with lifting.

So as you get older, I always use like the flat bench.

I don't know how you feel about flat barbecue.

We've never had this conversation.

So this is not premeditated.

I always don't like when a lot of my athletes flat barbell bench rest because I say it's in

not a matter of if, but when exercise.

Most people always tear their pecs doing it.

And it's not just because they're chasing weight because sometimes when people tear their pecs, it's seven reps in on a set before it's their top set.

It's just their lack of mobility.

They don't stay on top of their health, things like that.

You look at in other industries, you know, LeBron James, guy still plays, rarely gets hurt, spends a ton of money a year on his body and recovery because that's the most important thing.

Obviously, may have maybe less resilient to injury or more resilient to injuries, right?

But I think that's where people miss the mark.

So when you're younger, if you're noticing you keep having these strains, things ache, address it.

And most of the time, it links back to how you're training.

And if it's not how you're training, it's lifestyle factors, stress at home, how you're eating potentially, things like that.

And if you ignore those markers, not only will you not make progress because you can't be in the gym when you're hurt, but that's what happens.

I think that's one of the things that's one of the hardest things for people to address, especially if they're not being coached, is like that total allostatic load, like how much stress is coming from physiological places rather than the others.

So it's just, I think it's like, how can somebody

make sure that it's a time to pull back in certain places, you know, and like what, where to pull back on?

Absolutely.

And I think, like I said, a lot of the things going back to Nick,

arguably some of the injuries might be preventable, depending on what compounds are being used.

And I don't know if you guys have talked about that before, but things like that shouldn't happen, right?

That hamstring injury he had two years ago shouldn't have happened.

So I linked that to

some things being used, coupled with obviously maybe there's certain movements he shouldn't have even been approaching in the gym.

Now, whether or not that was instructed to him or he was just doing that on his own free will, I don't know that answer, you know?

So

I agree.

I agree.

By the way, is there anything you want to talk about as far as like what we're going to do with Nick just before I have to get on here?

Yeah, I was going to ask that and then we'll just like run the Q ⁇ A super, super fast if you're down.

But I was going to say I was listening to the podcast with the last one Nick was having with Guy too and something else he was stating made a lot of sense that

Guy was asking him like what kind of coach he was looking for if it's someone that's up his ass or someone that is

like

like gives him the instructions but then like sits back and he was like I like someone that sits back and isn't up my ass and that's one reason why I chose Kyle for example is and I can like I can second that obviously because you coached me for a period of time you're probably one of the chillest coaches I've ever had and one of the most like understanding I feel like and I can't tell if it's because part of it is like maybe the age gap is not as great and also you've also coached a lot of like creators that are

maybe in maybe insane

yeah

it's just uh I guess a little bit of both right I'm just I'm always I want to make sure the athlete is calm and collected.

That's like number one, because you can give someone the right diet.

They could look awesome.

And then you leave them for a few hours and they just go crazy.

They're on Instagram scrolling or whatever platform, and they get in their head.

And that's what you want to avoid happening.

So, that's

you know, one of the key principles as a coach that leads to success is being able to make sure that athlete is confident in your decisions.

There have been times in the past, I don't know what if I'm making the right decision.

You're not going to know that because I'm going to speak in a very confident manner, I'm not going to have delays in what I'm asking you to do, and then I'm going to go off of what I'm seeing from there, you know.

What are y'all's plans for Nick?

Good question.

How do you

be more specific?

What the hell?

Is that what you listen to?

God is work music playing.

Where's that coming from?

It's not me.

Your phone.

Keep it in.

That's crazy.

That's how you train?

I am Asian as fuck, huh?

Learning piano, right?

I don't know where that's coming from.

It's okay, it's off now.

It's weird.

Must be this new iPhone update or something.

Yeah, fucking iPhones.

So you asked what our plans are with Nick, but more specifically, so I can give you a better answer.

I'm sure he's probably discussed some of this with you.

And I can't remember what his next show's plan or what the next show is that he's planning.

I think it was like 15 weeks from now or something like that.

Yeah, so he's doing the Pittsburgh Pro.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

After that, do you guys happen to have like a

proximate game plan?

I know it's kind of hard sometimes.

Oh, yeah.

Think of what happens after.

The role here is basically for me, control training, make sure he's improving what is improvement season, make sure that I'm keeping him safe and keeping the correct movements in whenever he tells me what he's doing with the plan.

So if you want to look at this from like a annual plan perspective, so that's what you do with your clients.

You kind of get a hold of them, you develop an annual plan, or you develop like a macrocycle plan, which is just like six months to eight months.

Kyle and Nick sit down, they work that out, they map it out.

Kyle relays to me, this is when we're prepping, this is when I'm doing this, this is when I'm doing this, and I just make sure the training is on point.

So, Kyle is the coach, all those calls are Kyle and Nick, and then I'm just make I make sure that everything's good to go in the training portion.

Nice, yeah, that's kind of our relationship.

It's and it's working really well, man.

Nick was what 306,

it was 306 before we left.

Yeah, and he was a fucking crazy dude.

Great conditions,

a week behind, you could say.

Yeah, so what floats out there isn't

exactly today, yeah.

um do you guys happen to have any plan for

i know this is kind of a hard question to address um but like obviously as we all know the ibb has started to slightly reward shape a little bit more in open bodybuilding than it has in the past to how much you know we don't know but it just seems to be so i'm wondering if you guys happen to have or discuss with him any plan in order to address his shape Or if they're not.

I'm going to be honest about the first, like, kind of just portion of that question or that the way you stated it.

I think that's all speculation.

Do you think so?

Yeah, I think it's all bullshit.

I don't think the IPview is rewarding anything except the guy who's the best in the day.

And I think that's going to be Nick, if you ask me.

Because it's not just shape, it's everything.

It's bodybuilding.

It is everything.

Just always has bodybuilding.

Who won before Rami?

Do you remember?

Sean Roden.

That's completely fucking different.

So when Sean won, they were like, oh, they're going the right way.

They're going the right direction.

And the Rami came and won, and they're like, oh, what the fuck?

So they reward the guy who's the best.

They're not doing this thing where they're like, let's get back to the 90s.

There's all speculation by a bunch of old hats on the internet.

And they're going to give it to the guy who's the best on the day every time.

Of all categories.

Everything, every judging criteria, whoever fits the mold, they're getting the win.

So you don't think that because,

like, for example, with

Derek and Samson being the last two Olympias, they came great in comparison to, say, Hottie's conditioning.

But Derek outconditioned Hottie from the back.

Yeah, I mean, I would say the person that's winning is the best on that day.

Whether or not if the other person was at their best, would they beat them?

We don't know.

But I feel like that's always true, regardless, right?

To a degree.

But I think, like, for example, someone like Hadi, he wasn't on this past year.

If Hadi was on, I think he would have beat Samson.

Was Samson the most conditioned?

No, he had good shape.

He was big.

But I think if Hadi was 100%,

he could have beat him.

Derek, same, Derek is a combination of both of them.

So when Derek gets super conditioned, a lot of people just look at Derek's glutes and say, oh, he's peeled.

That's one of his better body parts.

Like, I was just like, look at his worst body part, you know?

Oh, you did?

Yeah, I said they're peeled at eight weeks out.

Yes, exactly.

My quads are peeled at eight weeks out, my ass is fat as hell.

So it's just genetics.

Okay.

Okay.

So you would say then there's not really a plan or any thought process in

my plan.

So whenever I coach any athlete, I look at what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are.

Is Nick's shape a strength of his?

I would say his shape isn't the biggest strength of his.

Do I think it's a horrible?

No, I mean, he's gotten better.

He used to have mobility issues, and then he wouldn't be able to even hit his lats.

So arguably, he wasn't training his lats really, and that's why they didn't showcase, coupled with poor mobility of the shoulder.

Now all that's addressed, he've recently posted a front lat spread.

You could pop it up on screen.

Right, right looked pretty damn good so people can argue all they want it looked pretty good and at the end of the day posing for example nick's front double bicep this year i think he'll present to the best front double bicep not just from a conditioning standpoint but coupled with what works you've seen nick uh pull up you we can say when he does it and we also seen him crunch two different looks one is going to make the waist a little bit thicker one is going to make it elongate the entire abdominal region right so i think you can have someone change their pose and all of a sudden they look magnificent.

As far as the exact plan with Nick, I plan on bringing him in hard, like very hard.

That coupled with his mass is going to be hard to fuck with.

That's

what I think.

I think so, too.

I agree.

Like, I, I mean, these are controversial.

Like, I can't really say this for certain, but I feel like there are a lot of examples of this where it's like hard to basically dictate right now whether we know which, what is going to be rewarded.

It's just who comes best on that day.

Like, I think

a somewhat of a good example would be

fucking

Martin Sebum.

It's like, you know,

are we looking at shape and the prettier physique, or are we still

going to be when it comes to open body?

Yeah, and Nick is a fucking monster.

So that'll be cool to see.

Let's do this QA real quick before you have to go.

Okay.

Well, you guys actually answered this.

How do they feel to work together as a team compared to coaching individually?

You kind of already answered that.

Hate it.

It's awful, dude.

Honestly, fucking guy.

Jesus.

Jared.

Jared.

Jared.

Jared.

Jared.

Werry Wick says, I hate biological uncles.

Not a question.

Just thankful for showing athletes the right path to follow.

He's kidding.

Fat or ripped journey asks, with what you've seen so far with Nick, will he be able to compete at all his planned shows?

Yes.

That's on me now.

Yep.

To identify any issues ahead of time.

Yeah.

Not if it works out.

It wasn't shared.

Wasn't shared.

Jonathan Fournier asks both of you guys opinion on majority.

Jonathan?

John.

John Nen Ton.

Oh, okay.

I think Jonathan.

Like a Asian Jonathan.

Jonathan.

You got to calm down with these, Jade.

Yeah, come on.

I was just on JK News.

Sorry.

Still on the groove.

I miss Mart.

Opinion on majority of online coaches nowadays, BS or with money?

They're just chasing paper.

A lot of them are just chasing paper, unfortunately.

Fortunately, with people like Kyle, he's actually...

Are you can I talk about that?

What are you doing educationally?

Oh, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

So Kyle's doing a little thing where he's he's got a little educational platform that he's on slash expanding.

And we've got people like him and people like John Jewett and other coaches that are trying to at least

help that industry out.

So it's saturated with shitty coaches, but it's also saturated with really good coaches.

There are really good coaches out there.

It sucks that you got to like pick and choose.

But if anyone says that they've like done something something like what they're putting out or something like what John, so the coach says,

I learned a lot from John Jewett, I learned a lot from Joe Jeffrey, I learned a lot from Kyle.

I like to watch the RP videos and I've learned a lot from them with training.

Yeah, they're probably onto something, I would say.

Yeah, just if a coach comes to you and they're like, and you ask them, because you always gotta, you gotta ask coaches questions.

They're not just, they're not just asking you questions.

What have you done?

How are you continuing your education?

What sources are you learning from?

Those are the questions you should be asking the coach.

And if they're kind of just like, do what I say, brother.

I'm like, all right, man.

All right.

Peace out.

I completely agree with that.

Yeah.

Matt Black asks, you guys, is there a lot of pressure on y'all's part coaching Nick?

We have two different answers to this.

Do we?

Yeah, because we answered this on Nick's.

Oh, we kind of because I was just goofy with it.

I'm like, yeah.

You go first.

Yeah, for me, no.

I just love passing the torch and all that is my thing.

Nick loves the training.

I hope he continues to love the training.

As far as like

if something were to happen, right?

Whether some kind of like injury or he doesn't make it a stage or

it goes perfectly, whatever it is, Nick is going to feel how he feels.

If Nick, like something happened, he didn't place as well as he placed or he wanted to place.

And he wanted to blame the training, he'll blame the training.

Like, I'll be like, Nick, my bad, dude.

You know, like, I don't think that it was the training, but I understand how you feel because you're emotional right now.

But we're still going to be boys and do what you you want to do, you know?

So like for me, it's just I'm passing on the knowledge that I've learned and I hope that he continues to enjoy and love it.

And the internet's going to say what they want to say.

People are going to feel how they want to feel.

I honestly think that Nick's going to do his best ever.

And I think me and Kyle are going to bring him in fucking just proper, like on the day of.

And for me, I am such a goofball to begin with that even when people are in high emotional states and upset at me for things that might not be the reason they should should be upset.

Like, I come back to them and I'm like, we good?

We good, bro.

And usually it's fine.

Yeah.

I don't, you know, and Nick isn't like a grudge holder either.

And he said that for sure.

You know, Nick is a very loving and

very endearing person when you get to know him on that level.

And it's always going to be good, no matter what happens.

It's always going to be good.

Yeah.

That was well said.

For me, so I think pressure is something that is created when you're not prepared.

And for me, I'm prepared to take on what Nick needs to get to where he needs to be.

I feel that we have a very good team and support system in place, and that's something that is underrated.

Having a training party when you train, I think, is underrated.

Things like that, that people don't realize.

As far as is there going to be heat if something doesn't go correct?

Sure.

But as a coach, I will always put myself in front of the truck that's oncoming.

So if I fuck up and you listen to what I said and you did everything I asked,

my bad.

I fucked up.

So you can point the finger at me.

When people start asking other people's opinions, they do their own thing.

That's when it becomes very catastrophic, you could say.

So, no, I don't really feel pressure.

I understand what comes with the territory, but it's something, as I mentioned, everyone needs their opportunity and it just seems like mine is now here.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, me too.

Pressure something that happens when you're not prepared.

Right.

And like, dude, we're constantly talking.

We literally saw Nick at the start of prep.

We're going to continue to to try to see Nick.

Like, it's probably the most prepared team imaginable.

So

where's the pressure coming from?

And the reality is, as we also spoke on when Nick's documentary comes out, you guys can check it out.

But

it'd be cool, not to be redundant, but the reality is this is my first time working with Nick.

It's my first time also having Jared in my corner, right?

Do I expect this to be the best prep Nick's ever had in his life?

Maybe.

But I don't think I'm only going to get better based off my track record when I work with somebody, especially of Nick's caliber in terms of adherence to a plan.

That allows me to make the necessary adjustments needed.

And I have someone that could be as diligent as I am with mental health, making sure I'm making the right calls from a nutrition standpoint, pharmacology standpoint.

I have someone that could put that same effort into training, as important as that is.

I feel like it's foul proof.

And I think most people, most coaches are good with nutrition or maybe stress management.

Like Han, he spoke very highly on one of his, the reasons he thinks he was so successful is keeping his guys calm and collected.

And again, that is very, very important to have trust in a coach, especially if you're freaking out, feeling open enough to tell him things.

So creating that safe haven for Nick, coupled with all the intangibles that we have, I think it'll put us in the best spot.

But I do think this, because this is the first prep with Nick, there are things that I'm going to learn and know moving forward, like, shit, I probably should have done this at this time.

And doing this, I see what the result is.

Let me try this.

And the biggest thing for us, when we took on Nick, or at least me, I said, Nick, you need to be a student again.

You've been doing things a certain way for a very long time.

And if you're going to have that mindset, I can't help you.

I need you to literally buy into my process.

It's going to be different.

I will explain why I'm doing certain things.

And that's how it's going to work.

I hate to sound like a suck up because this might change anyways.

But I do want to say

toughest, most savage one-hour workout I've ever had was with Jared and Dr.

Mike.

And the most crisp peek I've ever had for a show was with Kyle.

So, so far, that's pretty cool.

I still got a long ways to go, though.

Maybe it was just our lucky days.

Oh, maybe.

Yeah.

Maybe.

We don't actually know what we're doing.

But I appreciate how attentive you were, Jared.

I forgot that you

coached not.

This is a nice full circle.

You shoot a little variable in there when he got hurt hurt the second show

that one sucks so bad bro i can't even express it it was the most stressful

um i mean part of it was my fault too because i came from um

we went to my girl's uh

seeing her family in kentucky um and obviously that probably did put some psychological stress on me to see like my girl's family like that shit's just fucking anxiety ridden honestly

on top of being injured during flights so whatever fun times but um let me my lesson.

I do really appreciate how attentive you were, though, during those preps, especially uh, the peak week and on-show day.

And uh, I didn't realize I've never ever actually like brought my scale with me everywhere, like my body weight scale with me everywhere I went.

I remember when I was asked him certain things,

it was like it was new to him.

I'm like, How the fuck is it?

Whatever.

Again, I can't go back and change the past, I can just change the future.

Yeah, you know, I don't really remember what my first coach did, but it wasn't that, no,

And it wasn't as good of a look.

Meditate with Dan asks, Jared, how many work sets is Nick doing per week?

And Kyle, how many calories per day is Nick eating?

Volume is a shifting variable.

So depending on biofeedback.

The sets will range anywhere from depending on the muscle group and the recovery ability, like let's say six to eight sets for like a muscle group like hamstrings that takes on a lot of eccentric damage to like 15 to 18 sets for a muscle group like lateral adults that can take on a fuckload of volume so it just depends on the muscle group it's it's very close to within those values that you see us teach we're like 10 to 20 working sets per week per muscle group is likely really great for muscle growth.

There's probably a range of a minimum effective volume all the way to your maximum recoverable volume.

So we're keeping him within that shifting value, making sure he's at his maximum adaptive volume in that middle range the entire time, and we're not overdoing it so he's not underrecovering, or we're not doing too little so that he's losing muscle.

It's the same as basically everything we teach, you know?

I love that 10 to 20 and then just splitting it up based off of your frequency.

It's just like, it's

great.

It feels perfect.

His calories are obviously ever-changing.

So currently, I just, we made a change bringing him down.

We just started prep.

So

I would say it's a decent change, but

depending on the day, so we had prioritized Nick.

Part of our identification in the beginning, or when I was testing Jared, was kind of making sure that he was seeing the same things I was.

Where does Nick need to get better?

Because if the answer was wrong, Jared, I don't know what to tell you, man, this ain't gonna break out because we're seeing different things.

But he nailed exactly where I thought he needed to improve.

You know, his chest, upper chest,

quad sweep, get everything back because he did lose some a good amount of muscle from the last prep.

Everyone does those little muscle, but he, that, Nick needs to have mass.

That's, that's his frame.

yeah um he was talking about that on the his last podcast too like he wants to attack it where his strengths are and that's mass so so his leg days are a little bit more carbohydrate focused i think right now his calories are i want to say 4500 54 if i want to be exact based on my change on his base training days okay so tuesday thursday

Saturday, he's at 4,100 and on his rest days, he's at about 3,750.

Damn.

And that, like I said, obviously is down from where his peak was in his offseason.

What was his peak in his offseason?

He got to 5,700.

How tall is he again?

5, 6, and a half.

Jesus Christ.

Boy,

and the key differentiating factor I want to point out.

Wait, are you serious?

5, 6, and a half?

Yeah.

5, 6, 1.

He's shorter than me.

Bro, what am I doing with my life?

There's a lot of walker.

That's 400 pounds by the way.

That's crazy.

But the key differentiating differentiating factor is he's eaten an ample amount of food and copious amounts of that in the past, but his digestion was off.

Now, if you ask him, he said from the first two weeks of working together, like, I feel really good.

And I've been very focused on how are you feeling from a digestive standpoint?

How is your bowel movement?

Be specific.

Are you loosey-goosey?

Like, what's going on?

Are they solid stools?

Are they pellets?

Let me understand.

And then when you're eating certain meals, again, there was some resistancy in the beginning because there's certain foods he's always had.

So we just have had a little bit of trial and error identifying foods that do really well with him.

If he's getting gassy, again, if you're getting symptoms like that, your body's telling you there's a problem.

Whether you want to ignore that problem, continue, you know, that's going to ultimately not lead to you being the best you can be.

What foods, if you don't mind me asking quick well with him and that he doesn't so he was always,

for example, he was always a big

almond butter guy.

He had got some type of MRT test done about a year.

So again, it could have changed since then, but that's the data we were going off at the time.

That was flagging very high.

it was a severe reaction in terms of stay away from these foods for at least six to twelve months bananas things like that we've solely incorporated working them in as we've kind of cleansed his gut and you know restored his mucosal barrier and things like that so those are things that you know he never had his gastrin tested gastrin for people that don't know is your stomach acid if you don't have enough stomach acid you're not going to absorb you're going to piss out all the vitamins you're taking you have really expensive pee so when we're seeing certain lab markers in a certain place you have to take things and find out what the root cause is you don't want to just just take band-aids and take this medication, and before you know it, you're taking uppers, downers, you know, from a drug standpoint, and it doesn't make any sense.

So, again, I always am about getting to the bottom of it and explaining, hey, this is what caused this problem, and this is what we need to do.

So, from a gut standpoint, I think that's where the old bodybuilding ways of having two or three different foods over time, that's just not going to work very well.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Wait, what was the issue with the almond butter?

So,

what happened?

You said he liked almond butter.

He liked, he would like to, he would eat almond butter, but he didn't realize that he was creating reactions.

So whether you're holding water,

specifically, there's certain foods that are going to be triggers on that.

Peanut butter does that to a lot of people.

Peanut butter gave me a GERD for a long fucking time.

I had to cut it out.

I'm allergic to peanut butter.

Well, I fucking hate everybody butter.

But I have a fucking TikTok meeting some people that are allergic to peanut butter.

It sucks.

A lot of people will always say, oh, I eat healthy, right?

Or I eat healthy foods.

At the end of the day, a healthy food for you might not be a healthy food for me.

And identifying that and accepting that is two different stories.

So there are plenty of incidents where, you know, there's a client for the longest time they're having issues with bowel movements, the stomach was bothering them.

And every morning,

the only thing I didn't change was blueberries.

Blueberries are a great antioxidant.

Usually people don't have problems with it.

But finally, I identified that, hey, if I pull these blueberries out, how do you feel?

Now all the issues went away.

So for 99% of people, blueberries are usually very good.

No problems at all.

They do tests with blueberries to see how fast it moves through your body.

Yep, but for this individual, it didn't work so well.

So, guess what?

I'm not going to use that.

I'm not going to try to troubleshoot and figure out what we need to take to make this work.

We're just not going to use it.

Right.

I think those digestive issues are some of the most important things to address in bodybuilding.

And

it definitely helped me a lot.

I understand that it helps also as in keeping your waist tight.

So, yeah, it's cool to hear.

These boys are waiting on me.

Do you guys have any more Nick questions?

Just Jim, me and Kyle.

It's fun to talk about that stuff.

Yeah.

There is honestly a lot, so they're probably just

telling me

they're waiting out there right now.

I get them back.

Five.

10.

5, 10.

5.

Yeah, 5.

Okay.

See?

Five minutes.

7.30.

7.35.

Go ahead.

Devin Hage asks,

what have you learned from Jared that has impacted diet and protocols related to training?

Oh, there's a lot, right?

Obviously, you know, at the end of the day, I was glad to hear that he wasn't just like old school in terms of his setup.

He actually had a thought process.

And I appreciate people when they spend time and are diligent with how they're structuring mesocycles and things like that.

So to hear someone speak like that, usually I'm speaking to a lot of meatheads.

They don't understand that very, so I'm not going to even bother speaking it.

But with Jared, in terms of unlocking ranges of motion that people aren't comfortable with, there's a difference between like not being able to do an exercise and then just not doing it properly so that you're so weak and there's an imbalance present.

So I think that's something that he opened my eyes to.

And again, I did my research before, I guess, approving of Nick's decision.

I wanted to make sure Jyro would be someone that I like his training style and what he's representing and what he's preaching.

And that was the case through how he explains things and just also his demeanor.

So I think that's something that

safe to say if someone presented the same information but in a douchey way compared to how he does it in more of a goofy but intelligent way, it's a different response for me and usually for the client, right?

Appreciate that.

Yeah, that is cool.

I'll try to finish off this quick.

Joseph asks,

is there any changes being made to Nick's PED regimen?

And is any of this affected by training?

I don't know what you want to talk about.

I don't want to be too specific, right?

All I can say is, I think Nick is currently

lower dosages than he's used in the past.

And he's got to the biggest he ever was.

So, what does that tell you?

And his gear has always been real.

Oh,

that's a bigger.

Which is,

from my perspective, fucking awesome.

Because

if

Kyle came on and Nick was telling me, like, I'm doing, like, so much more and I'm doing this and that, and

I'd have a red flag.

And I'd be like, I don't know if I'm going to be a part of this process, my friend.

This is

a lot.

The fact that Nick is

for sure doing less and

we're able to just work so well together is really fucking cool.

And it does shine light on

how important the stuff he was talking about with nutrition is, how important the stuff with training is.

People just

getting this type of stuff out there to people is very important for this industry, I think.

Especially when you're looking at things like lowering people or getting them away from those crazy, crazy, crazy compounds and dosages.

Right.

That's the thing I hate the most about fucking like reels and TikToks and why I try not to post like specifically gear-related, like dosage-related related things is like he will get a lot of people that don't follow bodybuilding as well or have this perception that one way is right that believe like, oh, everybody that's open bodybuilding should be taking five to 10 grand.

Exactly.

And if anyone listens to those people, you're going to fucking, you're going to fuck yourself.

I think you have to consider the fact that Nick has a lot of mass.

He doesn't need a ton of mass, right?

So right there, there are certain things I don't need to do.

Yep.

If I'm being specific, right now from an injectable standpoint, Nick is under one gram of gear.

I don't know if he's ever been under one gram of gear on injectables in a prep.

Yeah, probably not.

Right.

So choose to take that where you may.

Will that tight trade up over time?

Potentially, depending on what I'm looking to accomplish, if I'm trying to make him harder, I'm going to make sure the total, I guess, androgenic load.

That's a word, right?

In a way?

Sure.

The total load can be the same.

but perhaps I'll lower tests instead of just keeping everything really high and things like that.

And I think that's where,

you know, we have someone like Nick, he doesn't need a ton of mass.

So you want to have, we have a whole year ahead of us.

If I start out the gate like I would maybe four weeks out, he's not going to last.

His body's not going to get very far.

And then from a training standpoint, that's also going to impact him.

Right.

For the listeners that don't believe you, I just want to state my own disclaimer.

When I was working with you and also did my own preps,

when you were this far out of the show, we hardly had much in.

Hardly at all.

It was like two compounds or maybe three, two or three, and they were all injectable.

So, I mean, obviously it's going to taper up and things are going to change and the oils are going to be added in as you get closer to prep.

So that makes all the sense.

Make no doubt about it.

I mean, Nick in the past has used a decent amount.

Right.

There's a reason he's that big.

Yeah, there's a reason he's that big.

And most pros, I mean, anyone who's projecting that they don't use a lot.

I've seen coaches that claim they don't use a lot.

I've seen their programs.

You're lying your ass off.

Like, I've seen it.

So you tell me why your voice note says this or your program says this, but you're posting this.

But again, to each their own, whatever they're trying to project is one thing.

But, you know, I try to do it in at least a healthy way because at the end of the day, we need longevity in Nick's career.

I'm trying to make sure he can do the best he can, not just for this year, but for the year after and the year after that.

If I just go in and don't give a fuck, and we're just like, let's just do everything we can and see what happens.

Well, guess what?

That's going to not end so well.

And then it's going to be, that's not pressure.

That's

death on our hands.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Um, yeah, that's a that's a great way to say that, too.

You would never want to be responsible for that.

So,

um, all right, all right, get the hell out of here.

Yeah, I think that was about good.

I got one question specifically for you before you go, though, because I thought this was really cool of a question.

Jacob Whelan asked, um, on your

personal trading methodology versus working with Hani and his methodology.

Well, I don't personally

You're a trading methodology

versus Hanius and the differences when you were training with Hanni.

I don't want to sound like a fucking pedantic asshole, but I'm probably going to.

We don't have training methodologies.

Even Nick says it all the time, and he says the RP method.

And I'm like, I'll just let him say that.

We teach people sports science applied to hypertrophy training.

We're saying a lot of the same things Menser was saying, Yates was saying, a lot of the nerdier guys were saying, John Meadows and Mike were good friends.

You name it.

We're teaching a codified, so a logical sequential method to optimize results for muscle growth or the retention of muscle mass during a dieting phase.

Each concept

in training, whether that's proximity to failure, the range of motion you should train through, if periodization is smart or not,

each of those concepts has a certain amount of data to support it or not support it.

We're teaching people ranges of things that fall in line with the data on each of those concepts.

For example, reps in reserve, four to zero have been shown to grow great muscle.

Now you take that into consideration for fatigue management.

You take it into consideration for an advanced athlete.

You take it into consideration for somebody who fucking hates training with reps in the tank.

It's not a fucking method, it's a codified approach you apply to a specific person.

So, I have Nick training with a few reps in the tank whenever we're first starting off a message because it's fucking smart, he's strong as shit, he can handle quite a bit of volume, and he's in a deficit.

I'm not going to say, all right, every fucking set, zero in the tank, baby, let's do this shit.

So, it's not, it's not a fucking method, it's it's a teaching, it's a codified sequential approach with data surrounding multiple concepts.

And unless you're able to create conjecture for yourself and actually understand concepts, you're just going to look at it as it's a method.

I'm not a personal trainer that's teaching a method.

I'm a teacher who's trying to educate the industry on how to train and how to create that conjecture of multiple concepts and apply it to specific people.

And even enjoyment, as he discussed, is one of those concepts.

If this client says, I fucking hate training the reps in the tank, I'm like, all right, cool.

We're going to lower your volume a little bit because you're going to have more fatigue than most people.

And now you're going to have six sets of body part instead of having 10 to 20 sets for body part because you're fucked up all the time.

Do I think that's optimal?

I certainly don't because the data doesn't support that it is at all whatsoever.

And

anyone who says that as a matter of fact is full of shit, full of a lot of shit.

And I can say, this is probably better, but I'm not going to say this is certainly better.

Like the truth is here and everybody else is around it.

And the people who are claiming to be certainly right about the truth are probably more like here because they're the ones that aren't grabbing the ladder and helping each other up.

So I'm right about some shit.

This guy's right about some shit in this concept.

And we're all trying to just kind of pull each other up this ladder to the truth because we don't all know that we don't know the fucking truth.

We're very close to the truth.

And if we're not able to just kind of like talk about these concepts openly instead of bashing each other on the fucking internet and saying, well, this method's better, this method's better.

How are we supposed to reach the truth, the destination?

Well, I feel like, I feel like what you I mean, like the data kind of shows that it's true for you.

Like it just makes sense.

But the thing is, I think that truth is just different for every person.

So you have to obviously it's got to be applied just like you said exactly it has to be applied it's very individual independent 100

because there are people that have tried rp and they're like oh i didn't like it the reality is did you did did you apply yourself correctly did you have intensity do you understand what the reps in the tank are no because you never went to failure in your life so you're not going to probably progress following this because you never actually executed something so i think again those are all things like when all these people have studies of this drug does this no one took actual meatheads and put them in a controlled environment, fed them the same way, and did something different.

They're all studies based on lab rats or this population did this.

Okay, well, 10 people, they never lifted before, so of course they made more progress.

You know what I'm saying?

And that's the problem with...

the researchers in the industry.

So I think that's what people have to kind of take with a grain of salt and always be open to learning.

And as you mentioned, sharing information instead of bashing.

The more people can collectively,

the old saying goes, right?

Like three minds are better than one.

Oftentimes, it's right, unless you have two dip shits, you know, three minds are probably going to be better than one.

So be open-minded and make the right decisions in that regard to get to the top.

And again, that's why we ignore the shit posting.

We don't fucking entertain the shit posting at all.

Even if somebody's making an educational harsh critique of stuff, and they're clearly not open to conversation, I'm just not addressing it.

I don't give a fuck.

I'm going to continue to teach the industry and be positive.

And you can keep making videos, talking like a parrot and talking shit.

I don't give a fuck, you know what I mean?

How about it, dude?

Yeah, you won't, there's no longevity in that, I promise.

That's why I'm glad that I have our workout on video, and it's on YouTube, so people can see how much I was suffering in one hour.

I love it, how much gains I made in saving time and just doing that.

Yeah, exactly, man, exactly.

Um, but just to address the question, I know the question's and then Hani applies similar methods, he applies similar teachings, similar approaches.

He knows what reps in the tank are.

He, we talked about all this shit on camera.

The only thing different, honestly,

was the little flex sets at the end of each exercise.

And even then, specificity-wise, I can see why it makes sense.

And it doesn't interfere with this session enough for me to be like, you should never do that.

If you can hold a pose perfectly after three hard sets on an exercise, holding it on stage is going to be the easiest fucking thing ever.

So I was like, oh, this is pretty cool.

I get the concept.

That makes sense.

And if you want to do that shit, do it.

Like, why not?

You can train with the RP hypertrophy app, and you can do flex sets at the end of each fucking movement.

I don't give a shit.

Like, hell yeah, dude.

If it's going to help you pose better because you suck dick at posing, then you should probably do that.

You know what I mean?

Like, save time in the posing room.

So, okay.

So, you don't feel like it

derailed or pulled back from your ability to.

No, I think if that's every fucking set, it's what it's doing.

It's pushing more metabolites into the tissue.

If you're not allowing the oxygen to get there and actually remove those metabolites and recover and all that, yeah, fuck yeah, it's going to to interfere with the session.

If it was every goddamn set, yeah, you'll be a little cooked and you'd be taking away glycogen from the session where you could be putting that toward performance and it might decrease performance a little bit and then end result potentially lose muscle mass if you did that for a very, very long time, 16 weeks.

But no, it was properly implemented.

He understands how glycogen works.

He understands how blood and stuff goes into the tissue.

So when we had all these conversations, we both learned a lot from each other.

It was super fucking cool.

And Hanni just, like you said, gives a shit about his athletes.

Yeah.

He's just a great guy.

So that's awesome, bro.

Yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, yeah.

I'm sorry for keeping you on so long.

No, dude, talk good.

Talking about it.

Yeah.

This was fucking sick, bro.

And I'm really excited to see this happen.

I think Nick's going to look really amazing on stage.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

And the fact that he's 300 pounds and two inches ensure that he makes sense.

I'm honest with Colin's dealing with people he's worked with.

And I agree.

I think Nick's going to come in proper.

Yeah, I had him on with Dr.

Mike.

Nice.

Yeah, that was fun.

The one beforehand was good, too, because I feel like Jared was off some kind of pre-workout or candy or some shit.

What do you mean?

He was on another level.

When?

When he first came in.

Oh, really?

Yeah,

he was a little bit more...

a little bit more unfiltered and a little bit more

toxic than usual than usual Jared.

You know how Jared already is.

Yeah.

Worse that might not be too positive.

He was awesome.

Is this good here?

Yeah, it's perfect.

How does he look?

You look good.

Cool.

Nice.

Great.

That's good.

All right, Beth.

Thank you for coming on too, by the way.

No problem.

I know this was a long time coming, too.

It was.

And I know I said this before, but

congrats on y'all's engagement.

Thank you.

It's awesome.

Every time I see these things now, it's just like these posts just hit me different.

I don't know if it's because of the age I'm in now, but

it's weird how like as you grow older every year the meaning of things feels just a little bit different

so I totally agree with that.

No, I think

it's definitely an age thing.

I don't think people care as much when they're younger about a lot of things, right?

Just like you don't value certain things until they're gone.

So I feel very similar when I see people getting engaged, although sometimes people get engaged too early or get married way too young or start the process of life early it i don't know i was very i'm very calculated with what i do like i said i try to have a rhyme and a reason behind it so i finally found the woman for me and you know it was just the right time everything happened right

yeah um

something too that i was listening to um i think it was on chris williamson's podcast is uh

he was talking about the fuck you family so like there's fuck you money right where you just have so many resources that you can literally do anything And then he stated for men, there seems to be this concept of the fuck you family, where

when you're a man and you finally get a family, it's like nothing else really matters as much.

Like before you have a family, there tends to be this

level of effort put in to maybe appease others that have higher levels of power than you or strive for more.

But when it comes, but when you have that family and you achieve that family, it's like all that matters is just taking care of that family.

That's it.

Yeah.

Nothing else does.

And I can see that as I, we just got like a puppy.

So it's not a kid, but to me, it's like a kid, kind of.

And it's just a different meaning to it, you know?

I had a pet growing up, but this is a special meeting.

Like we're the mom and dad for it, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Honestly, going back to growing up, because I've never asked you about this and I always wanted to, but

how did bodybuilding start for you?

Like, Like, what's the first memory that even got you into thinking about lifting and eating and training?

It was two things.

Yeah, no, it was two things.

So one,

my parents had split up when I was younger, right?

So I think it's very popular divorce rates for

everyone are younger.

Or in our contemporary era, divorce rates are higher than ever.

Unfortunately, I went through divorce and I had to switch school districts and switching school districts.

There's a lot of politics that go into high school sports.

And if you don't participate in the summer or the community, things like that, I feel sometimes you don't get the best shot.

But regardless, I was going into my

junior year

and basically I had got cut from the baseball team and the response from the coach was, you should get stronger.

I said, okay, I guess, you know, I'll just start to lift weights maybe or something like that.

And that was like my first instance of trying to go to the gym by my senior year.

With that in the back of my mind, like, okay, I have to be stronger.

I think it's more than that.

Like, that's fine if that's the rationale you want to give me and provide me with that reason and then at the time i had a high school girlfriend and i was just getting into the gym and the kid i was training with at the time so actually going to freshman year of college um

he was someone think of someone i guess a naturally a skinny kid i would say like an

exomezo type body type so he just couldn't eat enough but he was always a very lean and ripped so when you start to see gains with that body type they're more noticeable compared to someone that's fat i was on the skinny fat side.

So what I mean by that is I can be, I can gain weight very easily.

With that, I can gain some muscle, but I was definitely nowhere near a mesomorph.

So my genetics are pretty shit.

If you saw my brother, saw my father, mother, you would not think anything, right?

And when I was starting to train, obviously I was already kind of fat to begin with, so I was putting on more fat, but I at least had certain concepts and the intensity down to where I really liked applying myself.

And I was training this kid.

And long story short, he started to look better.

and i remember my girlfriend at the time said maybe he should be training you

right and i felt very offended by that so those things coupled with my going into college i made the decision she wasn't my girlfriend anymore

yeah i mean that obviously changed that wasn't the rationale reason but you know it definitely impacted me and in my head i just when i went to college i wanted to pursue education not some d2 d3 sport because at the end of the day i try to be realistic with things just like when i speak to clients i don't want to set some up for failure and promise you a dream.

I want to under-deliver and over, I want to under-promise and over-deliver.

That's like my motto with it.

And when I got into college,

I thought maybe now would be the best time for me to start to take my physique more seriously.

I've always been a spat kid.

Like, I want to have abs.

Maybe that'll help me with females, help me with confidence, stuff like that.

And my random roommate at the time at Rutgers

sluggers.

Great college, very diverse.

And I think, you know, I have great things to say about it.

But my random roommate literally looked like a bodybuilder.

He was a football player in high school.

But if you saw a picture of him, you would think he was competing.

And meanwhile, he didn't, he ate okay, didn't eat four or five meals a day or anything like that.

He had protein shakes, stuff like that.

He just looked awesome.

And he was the one that really, I was like, damn, I want to look like that.

Like, that's what I want to look like.

So then I just started, I guess, that coupled with the fact that I was no longer going to pursue sports, which I really loved,

I realized the gym and focusing on my health and physique was something I can do as an individual.

I can go on my own agenda.

I don't need a team to depend on.

You know, you play basketball, you could shoot by yourself, but if you want to progress and play in a game, you need other players.

You have to set a time.

You have to show up.

The gym, I could wake up, woke up a little late.

I'll go to the gym at this time.

If I feel like going after my class today based on my schedule, I'll go.

The gym is something that you don't have to depend on someone else.

Make sense?

So that's where I sort of put my time in.

And I fell in love with it because the effort you put in is the effort, is the results you'll get out of it.

It takes time.

And I think

to be successful in life, you don't need to be special.

You need to be what everyone else isn't.

And that's consistent.

And that gym exemplifies that statement.

Yeah.

I think that's really well put.

I think as we become men, there's a certain level of independence that's required.

And the gym is one of the best places to display that.

And not only is it a good place for us to, I think,

maybe bring our emotions or whatever we're dealing with.

And

it's also a place where I feel like

the results are the most visual too.

So the work you put in, the effort you put in, the consistency you have, the discipline.

It all shows.

It's a beautiful place.

So that's why I think everyone goes to the gym.

They want to look better, right?

If you went to the gym and the more time you spent, the worse you looked, I don't think people would go to the gym very often.

Yeah.

You know?

This is totally random.

This is honestly a shitty question to ask, but

I know it's been kind of debated recently in the industry.

I think it's probably Fuad's fault, honestly.

But if you think that bodybuilding requires a lot of skill, or if it is a skill.

So going back,

we called it a sport earlier.

I I think I said it was a sport.

I don't like when people say bodybuilding is a sport.

And the reason for that isn't because I don't think you are athletic or anything like that.

It's just in every other actual sport, basketball, baseball, football, American soccer,

all of these things, the prerequisite to get better, to develop, is some type of weightlifting.

So to me, we're more specific with the type of weightlifting and the feeding and the nutrition side of things.

And then we're using super supplements.

But I never looked at it as a sport, I looked at it as more of like a glorified hobby that it's a sport because it becomes competitive and you can compete with one another.

That's what makes it a sport.

But at the end of the day, basketball players lift.

There are people that don't bodybuild, they go to the gym.

Are they participating in a sport when they go to the gym?

No, they're just going to the gym, right?

So that was always my mindset as far as, I guess, what Fuad's saying, a skill.

I think he's wrong in a sense because lifting is a skill.

I think it was just an argument he was having.

It was a podcast.

And I think Stefan was trying to say that it requires a lot of skill, almost on the level of gymnastics.

And Fuad was like, absolutely not.

I think that was the conversation.

Yeah, I would kind of agree with Stefan a little bit more, being that the best bodybuilders, the best people that I work with generally, their meatheads.

They're fucking stupid.

They don't know the difference between a protein and a carb and fat.

And guess what?

You don't need no difference.

You just need to do what the paper says.

Yeah, it was switched.

Stefan was the one saying that it requires a lot of skill because of like the whole.

Oh, so I'm saying, so I teeter, what's skilled, what requires skill is the actual lifting.

That requires neurologically being able to connect.

To me, that's a skill.

You can become an advanced lifter because you know how to connect with the muscle.

You've expanded the active range of motion.

You understand all these things.

You're in tune with your body.

What's not skillful is you just, you have to eat.

There's no skill to that.

You're just kind of like,

it's not that hard, in my opinion.

So that's where I try to merge the whole athletic sport aspect coupled lifting so

yeah i agree i would i would say the better words are like just being regimented meticulous and uh having consistency

essentially discipline yeah yeah so um

such a funny conversation sorry i had to ask that no it's okay yeah um i it's like i think people listen hear the word like sport or skill and it's just so weird to put into bodybuilding but when you think about the definition of skill it's purely just ability to perform and

you and I have both seen there's countless

like even advanced bodybuilders that still have trouble engaging their lats properly in the corresponding exercises or engaging another muscle group properly and

While part of that is genetics, obviously it requires a lot of practice.

It requires a lot of time.

It requires like two hours in the gym, how many times a week that you're hitting that muscle group, you know, or whatever.

So

in regards to like the definition of a skill, then I can see how it can be a skill.

And I think that's how people translate it to a sport, right?

Coupled with the fact that the end of the day, people are competing.

But like beauty pageants, there's competition, but it's not a sport because all of those precursors aren't there, right?

So, yeah, I don't know.

I think

you have to be athletic.

You have to have good genetics.

You have to to be willing to put in a lot of effort and make a lot of sacrifices.

You have to be a little bit selfish to be a very good bodybuilder.

You're definitely going to be selfish.

And those things aren't, I wouldn't wish that upon everyone to make those decisions.

What were you trading and eating when you first started?

So I didn't know too much.

I just thought eating healthy foods was the way to go.

So I would just get unlimited amounts of egg whites,

eat rice, things like that.

Is this?

Should I restart all this?

No, we're good.

We're good.

Yeah.

So I was just eating a lot of quote-unquote healthy foods, and I just got fat, sure.

So I didn't really, I just thought if I was eating good foods, I wouldn't put on body fat.

But again, contrary, as research shows, that's not always the case, right?

If you're eating in a surplus, it doesn't matter if it's just healthy foods or just protein.

It all can store as fat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What about the training?

Oh, sorry, I didn't hear that part of the question.

Training,

I guess you could say

I did a lot more

intensifiers when I trained a lot of drop sets, super sets, things like that.

So pushing a lot of blood, a lot of volume.

I feel like that's what helped.

And I think that's what

bodybuilding, that's what makes up a bodybuilder.

At the end of the day, you have to volumize the muscle, right?

I'm sure Jared.

touched on all the metabolites and the impact of why toward the end of a prep it makes sense to put those things in especially especially when food is low and you're trying to, you know, resources are scarce, so you need to kind of preserve them the best you can.

But that's how I trained in the beginning.

And naturally, because I was a beginner, you're always going to get stronger.

I think you could follow any regimen when you first start lifting and you're going to see progress.

That's the cool thing about lifting and how people become addicted because, you know, especially if you take a cycle or something like that, the first cycle you take should always be the best cycle.

It's not always the case based on what we see nowadays, but that's how it should be.

That's actually exactly what Jared said, too.

He just kind of blew up, but he just fucking, his training was absolute dog shit, but he blew up because he won genetics and then newbie gains.

Right.

Like in the beginning, it doesn't really matter.

Like if you have decent genetics, you got to make gains.

No, and again, to advance, as we touched on earlier, that's when

you have to be a little more

methodical with your approach and fine-tune things.

Be meticulous with your diet.

make sure the recovery is on point.

If, at the end of the day, the more time you spent into the gym equated to a better physique, everyone would live in the gym.

But as we learn from either instances where we take time off or we change our approach to maybe less frequency, all of a sudden we start to see progress again.

So you start to realize, like, damn, all the time I spent in the gym,

I was probably just running this giant wheel here.

So, from the beginning till

now, you gain a lot of knowledge in training yourself, competing in shows, and then coaching a lot of clients.

How would you say that diet and training has changed?

I think it's changed because I've never, I'm a big proponent of always being open to learning.

And I think the day you stop thinking you need to learn more is the day

you're not going to progress anymore.

So I'm a firm believer in always trying to research and study and stay up with the times.

There's a lot of things that science is showing us now from a training standpoint and also from a diet standpoint.

10 years ago, you didn't have all this information out, but now if you take the time, you could literally learn anything through the internet on YouTube.

How do I become X?

You can figure it out.

From a nutrition standpoint, there's a lot of valuable information.

There's also some nonsense information, but I think sometimes you need to try something.

Just as important as it is to find out what you want to do in life and what works for you, it's also important to try and figure out what doesn't work for you.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

So, at my overall style, how has it changed?

I mean, from a training standpoint,

I

used to train, like I said, with very high intensity.

I would have certain days where that were power-based days.

I would have certain days that are volume-based days.

And my main thing, progressive overload, always to me just made logical sense.

Because if you're lifting the same 20-pound dumbbell today that you lifted last year, are your arms much bigger?

Probably not.

Now, if you consider time under tension, the range of motion, and things like that.

It's distracting me.

Oh, okay.

This one?

Yeah, the batteries are all dead.

All the batteries?

I recharge two.

The other two, I already put in other cameras.

But you're good.

These cameras are.

I have one camera.

That's okay.

No way.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thanks, bro.

It's okay.

So as I was saying with just the bicep analogy, to me, it always just made logical sense.

I obviously want to be able to increase the weight I'm lifting over time, but I also need to keep all those variables controlled, right?

If I'm not a PR, isn't a PR if the one thing I always learned from an early age, and I think you, I don't think you had Phil Viz on, but he's someone I worked with in the beginning of my career, and he taught me a lot of things with training and helped me out.

And one thing he always, I guess, helped me understand

was when you are chasing PRs and trying to progress.

A PR isn't a PR if the environment changes.

And by environment, I'm using that term loosely, but more so to describe the time it takes that if you're pausing.

Let's just say you're doing a set of squats and you sent me a video and it's 315 for 10 reps.

Let's just hypothetically say.

If next week, and let's say the video took 45 seconds from start to finish.

If next week you did 365 for 10 reps, Or let's just to keep it more comparable.

Let's just say you did 315 for 12 reps and it took you 35 seconds, you just went faster.

You didn't spend as much time.

So, on paper, you would see, oh, I progressed in the logbook.

And I think that's where people go wrong with the logbook because they're not.

And I think you even touched it on it yourself.

If you don't actually hold yourself accountable for those things, you're going to just start to try to beat this logbook.

And then you're going to run into a wall when one day you just can't beat it because you can't be any more sloppy with the reps, or you start to have aches and pains, and now you have to kind of remove the exercise for a couple of weeks.

And now you have to rescind and kind of start back from square one, but maybe you're a little ahead.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you find any foods that didn't work for you?

Always for me, oatmeal.

That never worked very well for me.

I don't know if it was more so probably from the fiber content in it, but I always knew that from day one.

I would try to, I think they call it like pro-oats, the cool kids call it now, whatever.

I would always try to put some protein powders.

I didn't like the taste of plain oatmeal.

It just didn't do it for me.

And I would always have problems, let's just say, you know, loose bowel movements thereafter.

And it took me a while to realize that, for example, on a day of higher food and a refeed when I was competing,

I would have higher amounts of food, but I've always been someone, as I mentioned, I can eat.

I don't think many people eat more than me.

On these days of higher food, by the end of the day, I just felt like shit and I just didn't understand why.

And it was always when I had that cup and a half, cup of oatmeal in the morning, by meal four, shit was fucked up no matter what remove that cup of oatmeal i feel much better no issues at all

so yeah that specific food for me was always oatmeal again could i now in theory go back and probably re-implement it um

make sure there was because potentially could there have been problems in my gut at the time maybe right we don't know that kick go back in time so could i probably go back and implement it into my diet?

Yes.

Do I care to?

Because did I like the taste?

No.

I think the hardest thing is when you enjoy something and then it's causing problems, that realization is what's tough because it's just like,

I can't have it.

Like, you know, like, I love chocolate cake and ice cream.

It's not really beneficial, but I also know when I have it, I'm fucked up for days after.

Right.

Yeah.

That's the thing that stresses me out the most about gut health is sometimes when I think about bodybuilding, I feel like the most, one of the most complicated places is like finding out how to just have a good gut.

And when you do, obviously your tolerance for other foods go down when you're starting to eat just, what, five different types of foods or something in your body-fueled diet.

So it's just, it blows my mind.

Like, I talked to, I'm trying to remember who it was because I'm brainboarding, but we discuss a lot of GI issues and how a lot of it comes down to even stress.

And it's like a lot of these things are not very

quantitative.

And so I think it makes it hard to like pick out the variables and what's causing issues.

Was the individual Austin stout?

Yeah.

He's very good with gut.

So again, that's someone I've learned things from.

And he's been coaching longer than me, but I remember when I first saw his, I don't want to say content because he's not like a content creator.

I think he's more education-based, but he's always put out things.

And again, he's someone that practices what he preaches.

He tries to, he's a walking replica of what he believes in.

And I've seen the progress.

So when I see people like that, I'm like, all right, this person got it.

He might not have the best genetics in the world, but he's got it.

He understands.

He's applying it.

That's what's really cool.

And so, again, people like that,

you know, can speak.

Even he's very good with the gut, so he can speak in detail about it.

But I think that's very often overlooked.

So when you first get into bodybuilding, you can do anything for your first couple of shows usually.

You have a horrible diet.

You're going to get progress.

You might downregulate your metabolism and realize a second prep, what my diet was at eight weeks out is now my diet at 12 weeks out.

And you start to realize, like, shit, this is not going to end well.

But I think a lot of the times with certain athletes that, you know, have come up, I've come across or had the opportunity to work with, the reason they aren't able to get as far sometimes are straight link, right, to having gut dysbiosis, which is dysfunction of the gut.

You know?

Yeah, listening to that information has helped me like immensely.

It's been crazy.

Jared and I were actually just discussing too the mood fluctuations that happen from your gut and trying to remember the exact mechanism he was discussing, but we were talking about the depletion of serotonin when your gut is really fucked up.

And you feel that, it's like, man, when my gut is really fucked up, I am like, I'm angry.

Yeah, I mean, your gut is

like your second brain.

People don't realize that.

It's been proven in research that illnesses start in the gut.

So when, again, you don't take care of that or you just eat shitty and you look good, that's awesome.

But the reality is,

Father Tom is going to catch up to you.

And if you're really good, I feel like you could be better, just like guys that train a certain way.

And maybe they just kind of,

what's the word I'm looking for?

Recklessly lifting.

Can't think of the word.

Sling iron.

That's not the word, but you understand.

Yeah.

You know what the word is?

Yeah.

I know what you're saying.

Whatever that terminology is, that look awesome, like a branch warrant type training.

He looked awesome.

He won shows he did very well.

However, I think for longevity purposes, maybe if he had tailored his training a little different toward the end, who knows what would have happened, right?

He's someone that he built a really good physique.

Could it have been better?

We'll never know.

But based on what we're seeing, I think there could have been even another year or two of bodybuilding that's better, right?

Yeah.

Coupled with, again, what I think would come with that.

But again, you have to also go back to enjoying the gym and why you get into it in the first place is because you become obsessed and addicted to making progress.

That's why people continue to show up at the gym.

You got me addicted to Rice Krispies, by the way.

It's all your fault.

Cereal?

The cereal.

It's awesome, man.

It's very late in the storm.

I eat it all the time.

I put it on everything.

I put it on my salmon, spray olive oil, and it tastes like salmon tempura.

No, it's super light.

And it's usually enjoyable, too, unlike some other plain foods that aren't the most tasty.

I still can't believe what I was eating, though.

Those buckets of rice krispies with honey and all of oil.

It worked, though, right?

It was easy on the stomach, too.

Oh, yeah.

That's the main thing.

You just want to find something that is

when you can find something that's enjoyable and someone looks forward to it, that's even better.

Because sometimes bodybuilding, I guess the biggest critique people would say is that it could be boring.

And that's bodybuilding, man.

You know, it's kind of boring if you want to be in it for the long haul and to do really well.

Yeah.

You don't have to finish the rest of these Q ⁇ As real quick.

Take the time you need it.

So if there's other questions you have before that, go ahead.

I also feel bad because you guys have been away for like

here already, you know, so

I'm a matter of my words.

So go right ahead.

All right, all right.

Don't shortchange my fucking episode.

Logan asks, are there any PEDs that you had the most issues with?

I don't know what type of issues he means.

I mean, let's just say hypothetically, he was referring to orals.

If I put orals in someone's off-season, usually appetite issues.

If

someone already has a good amount of

androgens in play, and I'm putting more compounds in,

usually that could, let's just say maybe their gut wasn't the best, or liver detoxification process needed to be supported, and we are failing to do that.

And we're putting in orals that are toxic, that's going to lead to more issues with the gut, right?

And now we're going to have malabsorption and now we're not going to make progress.

If someone has a lot of stress in their life and their allostatic load is already high, maybe they train their balls off, don't really sleep very much, maybe they're fighting at home with their significant other, and then they're taking steroids, adding in trend, things that are going to compromise sleep and stuff like that.

That's not going to work for the person.

Oh, for sure.

So, and then again,

everyone gets to the point where they take more and more because everyone always thinks more is better because in regards to certain things, more is better.

But when it comes to PEDs, most people will get to the point where they realize more is not better or their body can't handle more.

Things start to shut down.

When you're having poor kidney functioning, guess what?

Now you're not going to peak.

So, when you see people do show after show, sometimes the reason, again, it's not because they're cheating on their diet or they don't care about the gym or they're, you know, they feel stuck in a vicious cycle.

It's that they do so many shows, their body's just slowing down.

It doesn't work anymore.

So, of course, they're not going to peak, right?

It's not possible.

Absolutely.

I'd say most of the people that are listening to to this podcast, at least like 90%,

understand this already.

There's still obviously this 10% and the percent is much bigger when you go on something like Reels or TikToks.

For sure.

For sure.

But

that

there's with that 10% or with the people that you just don't really follow bodybuilding or understand to a degree, I think there's this assumption that's easy to jump to that

For some reason, more is not better for everything.

But when it comes to PEDs, you got to take the most most possible.

But I think we all know that for any drug, more has never been better.

You go to the doctor and he prescribes you a dose.

He doesn't prescribe you 10 pills at once.

He doesn't prescribe you the maximum dose right off the bat, you know, or at least he shouldn't.

Everyone has a sweet spot.

There's a ceiling somewhere to where when you go above it,

you can't live there very long.

Exactly.

Just like from a diet, can you be in a contact?

Can you maintain a two-week outlook, a true two-week outlook year-round?

Hell no.

You're going to have a lot of issues by doing that.

So, I mean, to that 10%, or it's probably more than that, honestly, maybe the 10% that listens to this, but the reels out there, that's where I just go back to just being objective and logical.

If you really want to learn,

start with tests.

Say you take 500 milligrams a week, right?

That's the old average.

I would start lower than that, but let's just say it's 500.

Do that for 12 weeks.

Okay.

Don't titrate up the dose, do anything different.

Just take 500 milligrams of tests for 12 weeks.

See your results.

Next time out, take 750, 12 weeks.

Next time, 1,000.

Next time, 1,500.

Next time, 2,000.

And see if you get more results.

At some point, you're going to realize, oh, shit, I can't breathe, hypertension.

I need to take this drug to counteract this.

You're going to realize that you can't survive like that.

It's not working.

There's also very popular blasting cruises now, right?

That's the terminology I think people probably use to where they're taking a cycle and then they just go down to the TRT, even though it's like an athlete TRT, because it's not true TRT.

But that aside,

there are some people that

are better off blasting hard and heavy for 16 weeks and then literally taking 12 to 16 weeks off completely rather than just taking 16, 20 weeks of a blast, eight weeks of a cruise.

There are some people that literally just do better from a response.

And again,

try it.

You have nothing to lose.

So when people are that 10%,

you'll see themselves when they go to take a thousand milligrams of test, 2,000 milligrams of test, are you actually feeling better?

Are you getting better responses?

Or are you getting a slew of side effects that now you need to counteract with more drugs?

And again, as we touched on more drugs, what is that going to ultimately lead to?

Typically doomsday at some point or another.

That's really interesting that you said that because I haven't actually, I don't think I've ever heard someone say that they've seen that some people do tend to respond, but just coming off completely.

And it depends how heavy you go too.

At some point, you're taking so much.

A lot of the bodybuilders you probably heard of in the past, they mentioned after Olympias, they don't train or do anything for three or four months.

They just stop.

And people are like, oh, that's bullshit.

No, because they bang hard when they're taking shit.

They take a lot.

They need the time off for their body to kind of recoup.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Do you find that for them, I mean, I guess

this is going to vary so much per person, but do you ever find that like...

Just the stress of having to go through that period of time where it's just so low and then they try to bring back their test levels like kind of hurts them in the butt.

If you're trying to be the best bodybuilder, you're not going to spend a lot of time off.

If you're just trying to look good, yeah, I would encourage you to definitely come off.

Get your levels checked.

If you care about having a family, those are conversations I have with people.

Like, do you care?

If not, okay.

This is the best advice I can give you given what you're saying.

I don't agree with it.

So when I don't agree with something, if I get someone that comes to me, I'll kill myself.

I just want to be an Olympian.

Cool.

I'll tell you where to go.

I'm good.

I don't like that mindset.

You just, I give you your program, you scroll to the PD PD section, and you're just like, oh, that's it.

Like, what about in the future?

How about you just focus on executing what makes more sense, the nutrition, the training?

And then obviously we sprinkle in these performance-enhancing drugs.

They're not performance-replacing drugs.

So if you don't do the other shit right, they're not going to work.

So that's been my view on it to be as open and transparent as possible is most bodybuilders that are very good, they're not coming off for long periods of time.

The ones that do come completely off are typically, let's just say they were using maybe heavier doses.

They need to get their body break.

They're just fucking tired of pinning.

They just want to just chill for a bit, depending on the division they're in.

Sometimes they can't grow as much, they don't need as much care anymore because they're almost capped out.

They just need to refine and fine-tune.

You know what I'm saying?

And I just want to address this, even though, again,

maybe 90% of the podcast already knows this or understands this.

But for the small percent, for those that feel like every top bodybuilder want needs is lying if they're not doing the most to get to Olympia.

I'm sure that a lot of these people care that much to get to Olympia.

I fucking do.

But it's like saying like

watching like freaking Squid Games, for example.

There's a reason that they create shows like this because this reflects psychology in our society.

You know, you have half the people.

This is like a rough percentage, but you have a portion of the people that will choose to kill others and die themselves for them to get all the money in the world.

You have the other portion that needs it.

They need it, but they would rather save other people or they would rather save their own lives than to go to the full, full extent, right?

So not everybody is taking fucking five grams of gear.

Not everybody is blasting their socks off, trying to do the most.

with a disregard for their health, you know, like I think that's what makes bodybuilding so interesting too, is because it is a risky place as a lot of masculine i know we're bringing back the word sport but a lot of like competitions are um and i think to

make sure that you're doing this

and you also want to stay alive for your kids and your family is some fucking crazy shit No, and that's what I think brings bodybuilding back to being a sport because people are going to be competitive in every way possible.

So they want to follow the best nutritional approach.

They want to take the best drugs.

You could take tests.

I could take tests.

Maybe you get it from a better source.

Now we can obviously do testing to figure that out, but maybe you just respond better.

So again, do all Olympians not take, or are they all lying, the ones that are saying they don't take a lot?

At some point in their life, they probably took a good amount.

Maybe they don't need to take as much anymore.

They had some adverse issues from doing so.

But I think something to pay attention to is the people that come out of nowhere that just blow up and they're fucking,

you know, now they become super popular and people are talking about them and then they just disappear.

Those are the ones that are usually taking a hefty amount of shit when you can literally don't look your age.

You look 10 years older.

Usually they're running a lot of stuff and then their longevity isn't there.

So again, there's a ceiling for everyone.

Does everyone need a ton of gear?

If you have shitty genetics, you're not going to get very far unless you're taking a lot.

And if your body can't handle a lot or if you're not doing the right thing with nutrition, if you're not getting lab work done, if you're based on your hereditary and genetics, some people can't handle it.

Maybe their calcium scores through the roof, stuff like that.

At some point, you're going to find yourself in a position where the doctor's telling you to your face, you're going to kill yourself.

You need to stop.

And at that point, that's when you'll see people talk shit about bodybuilding, all that.

But the reality is you did it to yourself because you became addicted.

We live in a world now where

a lot of the,

I coach a lot of younger people coupled with experienced ones.

But a lot of the younger generation, we're fixated on how can we get what we want tomorrow.

That's the primary objective is how fast can we make progress

when they're not on something or they're just PCTing.

They feel that they can't make progress when the reality is if you're taking still an athlete TRT dose, we'll call that 200 milligrams.

I think a true TRT dose is anything sub 150 generally.

If you're above 150, that's, to me, it's not really TRT anymore.

It's an athlete TRT to call it.

You can make a ton of progress on that.

If you're not making progress on that, now if you're 240 pounds, that might not do much for you, right?

Especially if you know your threshold's higher.

But all of the kids, they can gain, the more you can grow with as little as possible, the better off you're going to be to be able to titrate stuff up in the future.

There's a lot of regional people I coach, and they're like, they're taking everything under the sun.

They're taking grill tarma on that, trying to use insulin, everything.

And they're not even a pro.

Where are you going to go?

At some point, they're diminishing returns, and you have to realize that maybe my genetics suck, or maybe I just need to be more patient.

I'm putting on 10 pounds of muscle here.

10 pounds of muscle a year is a fuck ton of muscle, right?

That's a lot of muscle.

You put on 10 pounds of pure muscle.

So people don't realize that, hey,

when I first got into lifting, I always always look at, there's a couple guys in the gym, they're in their 30s, and I would go up to them.

I would always watch how they're lifting, you know, they look awesome.

I wish I could look like that.

Hey, do you have any tips for me?

And, you know, you'll get a broad array of answers.

But one of the answers that stuck out to me was, I've been doing this for 15 years, man.

I don't want to hear that answer because, again, I'm not waiting 15 years.

I want to get this shit now.

But that's the truth.

So, when people even call it to me and they're like, Oh, you know, you're much bigger in person or you have a good amount of muscle.

I've been doing this for a long time now.

I hope I'm fucking decent at it because if not, what am I doing?

I'm wasting my time.

So, you can only be so good so fast.

You'll get anomalies like Anton, kid I coach.

Phenomenal.

Most people never look like that, no matter what.

The reality is, he's got good genetics, a very good response to any type of PEDs, things like that.

But again, for him, I think his potential is extremely high right now, in my opinion.

I think he can be very, very good.

If we do it the wrong way, if we don't play the cards the right way, he'll be gone.

It won't work.

He'll either get burnt out mentally, physically, his body is shut down.

So there's a time and a place of how quickly you can rise to the top.

And I always ask people, like,

do you want to be like a one-in-done?

Like a one-hit wonder?

Or do you want to be around for a bit?

That's what you have to really sometimes consider.

So, where's your peak of the mountain?

Or is your peak of the mountain

tomorrow?

And that's going to be it.

What you said about how Anton may burn out potentially, I think

not to

fucking jump on it or whatever, but I feel like that was a great statement to just provide, in my opinion, great evidence for why you are a good coach.

I think that's one of the most important things for coaches to address in the first place.

And the fact that you address things such as like psychologically burning out,

all of these stresses like John Jewett expresses as allostatic that contribute to allostatic load.

I think most bodybuilders don't really think about

most because again, at the end of the day,

what I go back to saying about most good bodybuilders, they're selfish as fuck.

And they're that good because they're selfish as fuck.

They don't care about someone else.

They don't care about a significant other.

They care about themselves.

It's me, myself, and I.

That's how you get to the top for 90% of good bodybuilders to be at that level that we're talking, you know?

But I guess I just generally care about people's futures because

at some point in life, we all put the pen down to this chapter of bodybuilding, whether it's caused from an injury, we had a family, whether it's an oopsies planned, or maybe you just get old and you're like, damn, my body's just not getting any better, or my health is fucked and I can't take the gear I was taking and I feel like I needed the gear to be here.

You put the pen down.

You should be able to put the pen down on your own terms.

When that's forced because of ignorance, that's when I have a problem.

So I just try to preach to people like, look, could you take more?

Sure.

Would you make a little bit more, get a little bit more results?

Maybe.

But at some point, where are you going to go?

You can only take so much shit for so long before you start having issues.

You get one body, one heart, right?

You know, the saying.

So where are you going to go from that?

And I think that's what people don't realize until they're at that point.

Everyone always has that, it won't happen to me until it does.

And then life changes.

Yeah.

And going back to what you said about responses and tests, and

I'm not sure if I, I think I just said this on Jared,

but

I was stating about my genetics.

And I have great shape, and I know that.

That's where I think my, I think that's where my genetics shine the most.

In terms of like building muscle naturally, I have trained for a really long time and I've seen a lot of genetic freaks

that

can build so much, that were able to build a lot more muscle than me.

Getting my blood work done and seeing my values, what I've noticed is I think when I jumped on PEDs, it was a big benefit for me.

And when I started checking my values, I think I realized part of the reasons.

Right now, for example,

I've titrated up my GH dose to the highest I've been, which is four I use.

And even even though, compared to, say, open bodybuilders or a lot of other experienced bodybuilders, it's not very high.

It's doing a lot for me because from checking for my IGF-1 levels, I'm not sure how

this is just something that I believe to be true based off of the values.

Obviously, we don't really know exactly because

of

systemic IGF-1 compared to the values that we're reading from our liver.

Jesus.

Okay, we'll wrap it up soon.

But my IGF-1 levels, on average, before I was

enhanced or took GH, it was like 100, right?

It was the bottom of the reference range.

And I would ask my doctors, and they would say, I don't really know, honestly.

Maybe it's just a genetic thing, honestly.

But it'd be like 114, for example.

Now that I've been taking GH,

it's always in the 400s.

And I have noticed a lot of growth compared to before.

It's sped up a lot, even though my actual anabolic doses haven't changed very much.

And I think the same could be said about maybe the anabolics that I've taken.

So I think the genetic, the genetics do change.

Obviously, they're different.

And

I think...

People should

consider their longevity first when they're bodybuilding and trading and push themselves to the limit naturally as much as possible if they care about competing, right?

But don't ever knock yourself until you put the time, the consistency over a long period of time because you don't really know

if I just don't think people will know when they shine.

I think it takes a long time, at least five years of really trying to know how far you can get.

And if you're really trying, like, hey, I haven't missed a meal in five years, like I prioritize this, should I live and breathe and die bodybuilding, and you're still not making progress, comparable to yourself, not others, right?

You're literally taking pictures from five years ago, looking over every six months.

Then make the logical decision.

Hey, this isn't, where am I going here?

I'm wasting my time.

So, not everyone can be the best bodybuilder.

If that was the case, it was just how much you can take, how much you're willing to ignore your health, you would see more people like that.

But there's more that goes into it.

People realize they take so much and they still suck.

Okay, well,

they got to have some type of excuse.

excuse.

That's that's the reality of the situation.

All right, let's finish this QA.

Um, Craig Augie asks, Are you a deep dish guy or a thin crust guy?

What do you think the answer is?

Deep dish, yeah.

I fuck with both.

I'm fat, bro.

I guess deep dish.

I fuck with deep dish too.

Deep dish is the best, honestly.

Um,

Garrett Channing asks if if you could explain the importance and programming for natural versus enhanced

presume from a nutrition

point of view.

Um, so I guess my approach,

you have to realize that you don't have

an arsenal of weapons that you can

pull out to expedite progress.

So, obviously, for someone enhanced, there are certain fat burners that we can put into play to kind of catch up, let's just say, if we're falling behind for some reason.

Naturally, you have to be a little bit more specific and calculated in the decisions you're making to make sure fat loss is occurring at the most linear perspective as possible.

Obviously, fat loss is never going to be linear, but I think that's the difference between, at least when I program for someone naturally versus someone enhanced, I know I can make up for time with someone enhanced, so I can kind of maybe keep them in a surplus a little longer.

I can kind of rip body fat off, or maybe I have them where I want.

I'm just going to cosmetically change how they look based on some drugs and manipulation.

I can't do that with someone that's natural.

So, if someone's natural and

the way they distribute their fat isn't ideal for the division we are in, we have a problem.

I got to get them leaner.

That's kind of how I would go about it.

Okay, awesome.

Casey Maryer asks how it feels to coach all these top influencers and how it feels to have Nick on your roster now.

I'm the shit.

No.

I always, at the end of the day, man, like I said, I think

I'm a firm believer that opportunities present themselves for someone that deserves them.

And I would say that I never thought I deserved those opportunities.

I just wanted to make a difference in people's lives.

And I was fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time, have meaningful conversations.

As I mentioned, the things that people are seeing now are a result of years ago I planted the seed with Nick and I was his friend first and foremost.

That's what I was there for.

It wasn't a coaching thing.

I could care less if I never coached him again.

I just wanted to see him be the best that he can be and be coached in a way that helped him get to the highest level possible.

So, you know, to be able to have the opportunity to work with all these people, I think

one thing that people mention for the influencers, sometimes people come off a certain way through their reels or, you know, on social media, and people ask, oh, is this person really an asshole?

And I'm like, no, this person's actually awesome.

So a lot of the people I work with that I choose to work with, because at the end of the day, when someone asks me, if I don't want to work with you, I'm not going to work with you.

If I don't think I can actually genuinely help you, I don't want to waste your time because that's what's most valuable is your life and your time.

so when i work with these people i'm more so honored that they're choosing to believe in me and putting their trust in me the way i asked them to regardless if they're an influencer regardless if they're an olympian

who is your best client

best in what sense genetically best is in parentheses kyle from boston is

from kyle taylor 73.

interesting

um i have a lot of really good clients um

you know my favorite clients are the ones that

they just check the boxes daily.

They do the best they can.

They might not be the best genetically, but they are always very transparent.

They're upfront.

They're meticulous with everything they do.

Their check-in is on a Friday, for example.

They check in no matter what at 7 a.m.

Hey, coach, I sucked this past week.

I just want to let you know.

Here's my check-in.

That is what I admire the most.

So those are clients that I love and have fortunate enough to have a lot of those.

And I also have some bags of shit, but you know.

There's a lot of questions.

I'm just trying to run through some of them.

What are ways to know when your body doesn't respond well to certain food, herbs, from herbs?

So, I mean, you obviously have the most severe symptoms.

You're going to have some type of distension.

I always look to bowel movements.

You have markers that could be off.

Like I said, if you get someone's gastroin, so

low stomach acid, hypoclyhydria,

that is going to,

if not addressed,

lead to a lack of progress.

So sometimes people might be eating something.

And again, I always think of, you ever see the movie Hitch

where Will Smith, I think he likes a shellfish, he had shellfish allergy and his ear like blew up.

Those are like significant, extreme reactions.

Not every reaction is that significant and extreme.

Obviously, his weight probably went up, right?

His holding inflammation.

Sometimes there's things underlying that you don't realize, like rice kispy treats.

I used to use them a ton.

The reason I don't use them during like peak week and things like that, because there's palm oil in it.

And for a lot of people, they have an allergic, they're a little, they have a sensitivity to palm oil.

So you don't know until you're super lean, but I don't fuck with that.

So I just pull it out, right?

So that's things to consider.

But in the general sense, like I said, pay attention to your bowel movements, pay attention to how you feel after each meal.

It's crazy that once I've started really honing down, doing elimination diets, eating the cleanest, and then finding the foods that work best for me,

just how great I feel.

But now, you know, you just feel really dog shit when you eat the smallest little ingredient that doesn't work well with you.

Your body is very telling if you listen to it.

It's awesome and frustrating at the same time.

How many cookies have you eaten in one sitting?

I don't know, too fucking many.

I haven't, honestly, I crumble in a really long time.

Because again, when I do eat like that, I don't feel good.

Yeah.

so I try to prioritize.

Like, I'm very on point with everything I'm doing now.

Like, I have goals, time getting older, so I can't fuck around.

I love eating cookies, but I don't like the result how I feel 24 hours later.

That's what people don't see.

Yeah, Grant because it's from Grant.

Figured.

Um,

Casey Meyer asks: if Sam asked him to coach him for his first show, would you do it?

Sam's look, yeah,

As long as our conversation was positive.

Yeah, I'm not opposed to working with anyone.

There's no barriers to entry.

My main thing is if you come to me and all you talk about is gear, or if I get people that sometimes come to me and they say, hey, I know my body very well.

I just need you to keep a second eye.

Get the fuck out of here.

I'm not.

Like, why are you talking to me?

That's kind of crazy.

Have you had that a lot?

I don't get it a lot, but I'll get it from people that, again, they just think they know everything.

And I'm not spending my time very selective with what I choose to spend my time doing.

And I'm sure as hell not going to try to convince someone to trust me.

That's on you.

You don't need to trust me.

That's fine.

Do do your own thing.

But I'm not going to put my time and energy and emotion into a fucking wall.

There's a lot of questions, by the way, asking about if you feel like paranoid or if you feel nervous or if you feel all of these about like coaching Nick or coaching clients like Nick, which I think is a really cool sign because it just shows how, I think excited that people are about it.

But as you've said multiple times already too, you've had a ton of amazing clients.

You've had a ton of huge clients.

I mean, even though Nick is a top five Olympian, like

I don't even want to say this actually, but I mean, like, having having someone with a, with a, a fan base or an audience as big as the trend twins, for example, like, I feel like that's

you just got so much in your ear, you know?

Yeah.

There's just so much.

There's just so so much noise going on.

So, I just

feel like you are very prepared.

Yeah, like I said, at the end of the day, as long as I'm making the right decisions and I have the data I need, I feel very confident in what I'm having someone do.

I feel like I have a good system around me.

If I ever feel like I need resources or anything like that, and I think a lot of the times, as I mentioned earlier, I think people are just underprepared or they know they don't know shit.

That's when you should be shaking in your boots.

Because at the end of the day, the stage doesn't lie, right?

So my primary goal happens to be a Pittsburgh Pro for Nick, right?

God forbid something changed.

I want to make sure that the next time Nick is on stage, he is at his best ever because he can't afford to not be at his best ever.

It may not be the best package we are capable of bringing because it's our first time together, but

I want to put him in a position where he can only build from there.

And I think sometimes when he originally approached me, he wanted to do the Arnold.

He was like, what do you think about it?

I said, I can't help you do the Arnold.

So if that's what you want to do, like, I will help you find someone, no problem.

But I don't feel confident enough to trust that your body is going to respond based on whatever the fuck was just going on.

So I always want to put people in a position to succeed and be the best version of themselves because that's what brings me happiness.

And if he doesn't do well or if you didn't do well, I feel guilty because I'm like, damn, I allowed that to happen.

At the end of the day, I feel like I had the final say.

Now, could you tell me to fuck off and fire me?

sure

but at least i know i made the right decision for x y and z reasons

um brass e250 asks tell him i missed the old podcast you used to run and that i want you as a coach one day um he's probably referring to the ironbrows podcast i used to do that with anthony yeah i remember that one so yeah we did it in person i mean we like to bring it back it's just uh you know time commitment and then

you know time time was fast man

yeah

some of these questions are kind of funny though it's because like i just

they're hard to answer and like you ask like what's the hardest person you coach and what's the most stubborn person you coach

i think we can figure that out because i presume they're asking not based on a random person they're asking based on a influential type person so probably the hardest thing is yeah getting people to adhere and understand a lot of the times People just don't understand why something's important.

They're like, I didn't know that.

And they're very genuine about it.

Like, I didn't understand this.

Yeah.

Cool.

That's why I'm here to explain it to you.

If I wasn't going to spend the time doing that, I wouldn't waste my time doing that.

But I know going in, usually, like, okay, this is going to be tough, but I'm confident in that.

That's great, too, because I remember just five, ten years ago, there were a lot of coaches that would just say, just fucking listen.

And I think Jared mentioned earlier, I think sometimes I'll get a lot of people that mention like, hey, like, you answered my questions.

Are you telling me I could ask questions?

Like, I couldn't ask questions of my last coach.

And the reality is, if you feel like you can't ask a coach a question, especially someone you're paying, you know, premiums for these days, that's probably because the person doesn't know what they're doing.

Right?

So you should be able to always answer a question, or at least, hey, maybe I don't know the answer.

This is why I did it, or this is, I'll get back to you.

Don't just like tell someone to fuck off, don't ask questions.

Let's see a couple more real quick.

JFC 0507 asks, What's been the biggest protocol change you've had to do since do for Nick since he left Matt?

biggest protocol change the way I set up my diets you experienced I don't remember exactly specifically what I did with you right now I'd have to look back but my approach with diets and macronutrients are a bit different I don't just keep shit the same on train day rest days to me that's it doesn't make sense it doesn't fucking work for someone that has elite genetics they will get far they will get further when you do things the right way

so I think again that change and integrating that making sure that he was confident in trying that and buying into it that's what's hard because you again you're taking someone that only knows one way for so long it's like a dog that lived in a certain region right a house for seven years and you take the dog out it's going to be discombobulated a little bit yeah because it only knows one way so that's been the hardest i guess but it hasn't really been that hard

that's good i do feel like uh personally if i was to go through something like that diet changes would kind of be the one that feels the most of a change to me, too.

Yeah.

You have to be willing to work with the person, though.

That's where the biofeedback is important.

Coaching is a two-way street to a degree, right?

Just like when I worked with you,

there are certain things I wanted you to do from a diet perspective.

And you're like, hey, like, I don't feel this or I like this better.

Cool.

I have no problem using any types of foods as long as it's not fucking shit up.

Right.

If, hey, I'm binging, I have these cravings.

Okay, well, there's something wrong with our diet setup.

We shouldn't be having these cravings and stuff like that.

Or if you're you're having any type of

issues with digestion and you're eating a certain food, hey, I don't care if you like it.

I'm here for performance and progress, and we're not getting it doing this.

Matt Jace asks, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see amateur bodybuilders make?

Or maybe just bodybuilders in general.

You need to be patient.

And as I go back to earlier, being consistent, most people can't be consistent.

I get a lot of people that can be really good during prep.

Maybe if I ask you how many times you cheat on your diet during prep, person will say, maybe once, twice.

Maybe I missed one cardio session.

Fast forward four weeks into the reverse.

How many free meals you have?

How many meals did you miss?

Oh, like 12.

I'm like, okay, so about 12,000%

increase in deviance

since going to this reverse.

How many missed cardio sessions?

Again, same answer, stuff like that.

That's where people make the most mistakes.

Christina Yucentino asks, what was your first ever cycle?

My first ever cycle

was test and then very quickly test and DECA.

Did you like DECA?

Was that okay with you?

Yeah, I think DECA

people go for MPP now because it's a faster acting drug, right?

You can get similar

benefits to DECA, not as much from a water retention joint perspective.

But if you have any issues, it's out of your system much faster.

That's why people like the drug.

DECA was always a true and tried approach.

So again, do I use it now really with people?

Not often.

It really depends.

If I'm trying to slab a lot of muscle on somebody, I'll probably use it in low doses, especially depending on how someone's lifting, right?

If they're lifting really heavy, I need to make sure their joints are good, stuff like that.

But I feel like nowadays there are

better ways you can kind of set up cycles.

for progress in certain phases.

And then considering, as we mentioned, what durations.

And I think, not to get off topic, but a lot of people don't know the answer to, if I ask you, how much test is the best for you?

What is your true sweet spot and why?

Most people don't know because they start with tests, and then before you know it, they throw an oral in, whatever you want to, an animal, let's say.

And then their next cycle, they take tests in something.

They never just keep one thing in to actually understand, like, how do I actually feel with this?

I tripled the dose.

Do I feel better?

Do I get better results?

Do I get side effects?

Until you do those things, I feel you're kind of just running this long rat race.

Awesome.

Thank you, bro.

I think that was awesome.

It's also funny.

Freaking Jared said that

Deck was definitely his favorite because his dick never worked while I was on it.

So that's crazy.

That's a crazy answer.

He didn't like it.

That'd be a hormonal problem.

All right.

Thanks for coming.

I know you guys were freaking awake for a million hours today.

So

if you were to disappear from the world tomorrow, what would your message be?

I would say be grateful for the life you have and recognize

that you, like anyone else, are a human being.

And as a human being, if you have the opportunity to wake up on a daily basis, you can make a difference.

And I think everyone in this life should aim to make a difference in someone else's life.

You know, we had a fellow guest mention passing the torch,

which I agree.

But past that, I i think what people need to realize is

you you should always want to learn for as long as you're living you should always want to seek to put yourself in position to succeed to see your friends succeed your family do really well

i touched on earlier opportunities i'm a firm believer that opportunities come to those that wait those that deserve I don't necessarily want to say that that isn't always the case, but if you truly believe in yourself, which I think a lot of people lack,

that's when magic starts happening.

And I think a lot of us just don't have full confidence in who we are.

And the more you could look in the mirror, the more you could realize that you're a human being, just like me, you can get very far.

There's no difference.

We all spend our time.

Or there's a saying out there that time is the most precious commodity.

And I used to believe that for a long period of time, no pun intended.

But the reality is in action is what the most precious commodity is because time is going to pass no matter if we're sitting on this couch, sitting in the airport for seven hours, spending time doing more podcasts.

What you choose to do with your time is what matters.

So when you just sit on the couch, you make excuses why you don't want to better your life, why your relationship failed, all of those things are what's to blame.

And sometimes people don't, unfortunately, wake up tomorrow.

As we know, things can change at the instant.

Take advantage of the time you have, make a difference, learn, wake up, believe in yourself, and just make something of yourself because you've been granted an opportunity in life to present that aura and positive energy to someone else.

That's awesome.

Thank you, bro.

That being said, thank you, all you guys, for being here.

I know we're here for a long time.

So

it means a lot.

It really means a lot to me.

So thanks, bro.

Where can everybody find you?

Oh.

I'm not a big social media guy, as you probably know.

I should be, but I don't really, I don't use the platform much when I do.

It does okay.

But on on Instagram, it's just my name, Kyle.wilkes.

Like I said, I don't plan on ever changing them.

I am who I am, and I'm proud of that.

And then

if anyone needs me for coaching, there's a link in my bio, and that's kind of my only platform right now.

And

if you just Google my name with your favorite athlete or influencer, I'm sure I'll pop up.

Yeah, guys, um, I said this before in our last thing, but uh not to Schlobon and Ab, no homo, but uh Kyle so far has been the best coach that I've prepped with so

so far, and uh I can put that in as a disclaimer.

So, thanks, bro.

Thanks for coming on again, anytime, man.

Thank you.

Fire,

hey, you guys, I love you guys.

I'm tired.

Bye, peace.

Oh, fuck.