Roan Kardashian and I Argue About Tren & Health

We have Rowan Kardashian.

When I was a fat kid and I sit in the supermarket, people would cut me in line.

I was 250 pounds, extremely overweight.

I probably lost 50 pounds within like a year.

Got fired on a Friday, booked a flight here Saturday.

Yeah, every kid on TikTok nowadays wants to be a bodybuilder.

People are like, yo, I took I wanted to run through the f wall.

I wanted to smash a 45.

From getting my bloods done all the time, I did one competition and that competition cycle probably didn't add years onto my life.

But I've had clients sign up with me, never looked like they worked out a day in their life, they're on 500 million.

I'm like, what is going on?

I 100% disagree, bro.

I believe that has been going on stage without Tread because he's got autoimmune disease.

I don't believe that for a second though.

All right, tell me why.

My number one thing would be, if anyone's listening right now, is

Before starting this podcast, I just wanted to say that ideating steroids for a full show is not widely accepted because it discounts the real work, which is the backbone of this sport.

And unfortunately spreads that an unsafe chemical solution is all you need for results.

Both of these are an antithetical society's understanding of the sport and while there will always be some that claim that PEDs are all you need, I would like to deliver an honest message of what is required for achieving top performance as well as the dangers associated with this route.

I received this comment from a user named Night Skarrens.

But Just as a rock climber, the athletes undergoing this path in the sport are willing to put their life on the line for their passion, Just the danger between the two sports is different.

Luckily, we do have safety nets in the sport, such as organ imaging and regular blood work.

But that doesn't change the high risk one must accept in taking on this competitive lifestyle.

Do I have to?

Yeah, you fucking have to.

I should.

You absolutely have to.

Okay, I have to.

This is Joe Roger.

Only when you wear earphones.

That's why you have to.

Yeah.

But you want to switch the little cord to the other side so you don't flip it or take it out?

No, no.

Flip it.

No, but it's uh, this says left, yeah, but who gives it a fight?

Okay, okay, okay.

I don't know.

I'm just saying switch it so the camera

the wire is in your face.

You don't look like a predator or something.

Sweets, sweets.

Or like Anakin Skywalker.

Damn, this is dope.

Robot Skywalker.

I'll take this stuff now, or I could, I gotta say thank you.

That was organic as fuck.

Or do you have an intro or whatever, or no?

No, not really.

Okay, well, I would just like to say, obviously, thank you so much for having me on.

Yeah, cool.

I saw this pod when I first started TikToking and and blowing up and shit, and this was one of the pods like I wanted to be on.

So, like, this is

yeah, and it might sound like corny or cliche or whatever, but this means a lot to me.

No, that's um, it was like this

and raw talk, and like maybe one other, but like, I don't even care.

Thanks for fucking saying something all those times I saw you at zoo.

Oh, dude, I don't know.

You know how it is, bro.

I know

weird, dude.

I say what's good to people, and they're like, and then some people are mad cool, like how me and you are.

So, yeah, it's uh, but uh, yeah,

I brought you some shit, especially because

Luke brought you some wine, right?

Or something like that?

He brought us some wine.

And you were like, wow, it's the first time anyone's ever given me a gift.

So I was like, I have to.

So this is a company that I'm sponsored by, Warren Lotus.

This is like a steroid tea.

So yeah,

it's your style too.

You know Warren Lotus?

Wait, what do you mean a steroid tea?

So open it.

Wait, what?

They did.

Just open it.

Oh, there's no shit.

And I got you these like unreleased shorts, too.

Oh, shit.

These unreleased shorts are very good.

And you got at least an XL.

Double XL for you, brother.

I got you double double X.

Oh, what?

Oh, shit, you're right.

These are...

These are very you.

You dress like kind of, not like me.

You have a different style to you.

Those are fucking sick.

Yeah, so I knew you would like these two.

Dude, most of the time I had to kind of

slightly fake how excited I am to get clothes from people, but this is fucking tough.

Do you know why?

Mirror.

Mirror muscle mafia.

They did like a.

Shit, you're right.

They made a drop.

Yeah.

That's a lot of syringes.

That's kind of close.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny.

That's a pump cover, right?

Yeah.

Have you ever heard of Warren Lotus?

Huh?

Have you ever heard of Warren Lotus?

That's just a company.

A lot of NBA players wear it.

A lot of rappers and shit.

OBJ wears that shit.

Russell Westbrook, Drake, all wear it.

I'm really cool with the guy Warren.

He draws all that shit, too.

That's the coolest part, yeah.

That's tough.

And the shorts are super sweet, too.

I, though, that's my.

Thou shalt only bench press.

There you go.

Yeah.

No legs.

All chests, no legs.

The whole like.

Zero Soul and Steve.

Yeah, dude, it's really cool.

Some of the shirts say, like, do it for her.

You know, like, do it for your girl and shit.

It's cool.

I like that shit.

It's cool.

It's dope.

That's cool.

I'm happy you like it.

Oh, this is the shorts.

Yeah, you know, like, they're like barbed wire or something.

Those are unreleased, though, bro.

Oh,

yeah.

Oh, fuck.

I figured, yeah, I know.

I see your style and stuff.

You dress like, you know, edgy, dark.

So I figured you like this shit.

Thanks, man.

If you don't, whatever.

This kind of reminds me of young ladies.

They made this ugly ass pants and they got this like gray stripe.

I know.

Some of those are nice, though.

It's fucking tough.

Some of those are nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, those are cool.

Thanks, homie.

Yeah, absolutely, bro.

We were randomly talking talking about relationships.

Yeah.

You said there's like a girl that you're talking to now, and you like, really wanted to do it.

You know, I haven't, I'm not a relationship guy.

I've had like a girlfriend, like one and a half girlfriend.

Oh, wait, before I say this, by the way, Rowan and I actually met on the Jubilee Mill Grounds steroids versus naturals video.

And honestly, like we made a lot of good points on there, and it was honestly kind of fun.

Like, I was kind of hesitant to go on there because you know how a lot of these shows will like cut up people and cut up things.

I've been on it a bunch of times, so I was, but yeah, I knew some shit was going to, to, they kind of did set us up a little bit with the Josh shit.

Yeah.

They kind of did look bad.

Yeah.

But it'll be good.

It'll be really good.

Yeah.

I'm excited.

But yeah, we just said a lot of cool stuff on there.

So honestly, we kind of spontaneously just thought about having a podcast.

No, for sure.

And then, like I was saying, like, I always wanted to come on this.

And like,

you know, I was saying like with Brad and Raw talk and shit, but I feel like me and you will have a much more actual, like, intellect, like,

good type of conversation.

A lot of those fucking podcasts are so like basic and and shit.

I feel like me and you will connect more and have a yeah, I think so too.

Honestly, this makes me think about like how a lot of people like me, honestly, I was like this too, like think like, you know, being an ally is annoying.

Like all these people are superficial and fake and stuff.

And that can be very true to a certain degree, but like, I feel like this just shows you like how important it is to like, if you want to be somewhere doing something and a lot of people are doing it in a specific area, such as bodybuilding in Vegas, for example, best idea is to fucking go there because like it's going to be like a thousand times harder to really actually connect with these people over social media than it is when you just run into them in person.

You're actually way cooler than I thought you would be.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah.

No, I mean people think I'm an asshole.

People think I'm a dick, but then they meet me and shit.

But also I knew you'd be mad cool too because you know your friends, we have mutuals and stuff.

So anyone that's cool with like Kate, like, you know, obviously Caleb and stuff, probably going to be a cool kid.

So

yeah.

This relationship, bro, what's going on?

So I've met a girl a couple, like a week ago or something, but we hang out like every other day, but she's all the way on fucking OC, bro.

So that's like the only.

Oh.

yeah i'm in like a honeymoon phase with a girl right now how do you wait how are you hanging out like every other day i just drive to her no way

no way she'll come here she came here on wednesday uh she came here on tuesday i met her in vegas we hung out a couple nights then yeah she was here tuesday i saw her last night wait how does that happen how does that happen meeting someone in vegas just mutual friends yeah like she knew a guy a friend of mine She came he and invited her and her friends out.

Okay.

Met her.

Yeah.

Okay, okay.

So it wasn't like she liked it.

It wasn't like a random.

It wasn't like no, no, it wasn't a no, it wasn't like

a call.

A lot of girls I meet are through mutual friends.

I don't know about you before you're a girl and stuff, right?

Well, I met her through, I guess I met her through the, at the Young Lee gym.

Well, actually, I first met her at Zoo because

I talked with Carly and Ariel.

You know them?

TikTokers.

And she was with him.

So technically, I met her there.

Mutual friends?

Kind of.

Yeah.

I mean, I think it was just like people.

Colleagues,

same place, same time shit.

Yeah.

Like, I wouldn't have met these people if I wasn't in Young LA or I wasn't here in LA.

So,

yeah.

Just happens.

So, people ask me, they're like, can't you just do anything you want, like, at a different place?

I'm like, like, can't you like post content in a different place?

I'm like, yeah, but I could, but this is the best to do it.

Yeah.

And so what's crazy is, like, I was in, I was staying in San Diego because I'm like, I don't want to fucking be around people that are what people say in L.A.

And San Diego is such a vibe, bro.

Everyone's like, chill.

Everyone's cool.

It's the coolest.

Everyone gives a fuck.

Everyone's smoking weed and tickets.

Cleaner.

cleaner cleaner people say hi to you and yeah people don't lie hi anywhere here it's like dirty look people will actually try not to cut you off and they try to like it's give you leeway and all this yeah and the little what is it gas lamp right uh little itly little italy those little spots are good yeah little italy

even even bb is funny i know

i like it i love bb bro back in i would always be at avenue and pb is that the fishes or some shit no race the fishes i went to that place on a random wednesday so Firehouse is like the big house music place and then like Avenue is like the more like you go there like later in the night and

late night spot.

Late night spot.

Like it's super dark, kind of like

house music KV.

San Diego's good.

Not as big as LA though.

Yeah, LA.

They're goods and bad.

Right.

Like I wouldn't, I just don't think I would have been able to do this podcast and have the success or at least whatever kind of, even if this is some, some kind of success, have whatever this is without being here.

Yeah.

Like it would have been

impossible impossible in San Diego.

It heightens everything.

Yeah, no matter what.

That's what I was saying too.

Like when I first started TikToking, they saw my videos in golds in zoo and they're like, where the fuck did this kid come from?

I'm like, dude, I literally moved here and just started posting.

So like, that's like, it helps.

Wait, so how did that all start?

Like, what is your

like origin story?

What's your fucking life story?

What's your life story?

So I worked in restaurants pretty much my whole life, but COVID happened.

So, you know, COVID like

fucking ruined restaurants for a long time.

Started working construction with one of my buddies that didn't really what kind of restaurants did you work in the best ones bro all over new york city um like italian fine dining cool spots where you like you know ambiance places i can i can like picture you like being in one of those uh like coming up in like roller skates with like

any sense yeah i would

suit yeah ignite steaks so like yeah i would just you know walk around bullshit with people talk with people um but yeah i started doing this construction shit didn't really pan out i was making decent money but like you know it's never enough, bro.

Got fired on a Friday.

Booked a flight here Saturday.

Damn.

Yeah.

Fucking just no TikTok, like 1500 Instagram followers.

Like insane, bro.

Like

Cinderella story, like a movie straight up.

But like it fucking worked.

So that's insane.

Yeah, I had a little money saved.

So like I could kind of like, you know.

I could survive for like a little bit, but then it popped pretty fast.

So I was starting to make money, making money, more money than I was.

You know, I'm not a fucking millionaire, but I do well for myself.

You know what I mean?

So making just as much money as I was doing a nine to five, and I don't got a fucking alarm clock anymore.

I don't got a boss.

It's fucking great.

Wait, so if I was to fly on the wall, what would I see with your childhood?

What would that sound like?

As a kid, I was like,

I was mad.

I was, you know, a jock.

in my high school.

I was like really fucking cool, popular kid in the high school.

All my boys, you know, we're on the football team and shit like that.

We fucked the cheerleaders.

So cool, bro.

Fuck.

I peaked in high school.

I was cool in college and stuff.

Then I had my little thing and then I tick tock famous.

Kind of, kind of, kind of.

This is the best origin story I've ever heard.

Exactly.

It's like a fucking, I'm going to put a Netflix documentary on it one day.

I hope, but nah.

But yeah, that's like, uh,

and then now I'm here, bro, on your fucking dope ass podcast doing fucking random Jubilee videos.

So, like, what was your original plan when you were a kid, though?

Like, did your parents ever want you to, like, do something else specific?

I mean, I wanted to do everything, you know, i wanted to be in the fucking mob i played baseball my whole life so like obviously i wanted to do that but i nah i never wanted to be like something like that i never bro i'll tell you like at this i'll tell you like this my parents they i grew him from a good family you know i mean my dad's a dispatcher like he used to pick up the phone he's retired now and then my mom's like a teacher's aide so like they both have good i grew up awesome life you know what i mean never struggled you know i'm sure my dad struggled a little bit and stuff but whatever both my parents always wanted me you know just stay out of fucking jail bro my brother was tough tough on my dad and mom.

So like I was, I'm the baby in my family.

So like they would just like do whatever the fuck you want.

But now, bro, my parents are so fucking proud of me, bro.

It's like the

shit in the world.

Yeah, bro.

Hearing my dad say, my mom, like, you know, you close to your parents?

You cool, your mom and dad?

The average.

All right, well, okay.

Well, I'm sure you know, like, your mom, no matter what, your mom's going to be your mom.

You know what I mean?

So she'll always be proud of you, always love you and stuff.

Like, that's like very unconditional, but like, no, maybe not.

Maybe not.

You know how it's a little mother's love.

It's a little different in Asian culture, yeah, maybe, it's a little different, uh,

but you know, like a mother's love, kind of, you get what I'm saying?

She'll always be softer, she'll always tell me what to do, she'll always want me to be an engineer, yeah, always she'll always care about me, just uh, maybe not how I feel, yeah.

But just to hear my dad be like, yo, I'm fucking proud of you, like, good for you, bro, good shit, like, yeah, happy for you is like really dope, bro.

It means a lot to me.

I know it sounds corny and whatever, but it's not corny, though, yeah.

The older you get, the more you appreciate and like realize your parents were right about everything, bro.

It's like my dad was, yeah, like,

yeah i can see that too but like

as a kid like you just like my parents this my parents that but like nah they're more than likely right bro

i mean just being getting older you know and like realizing life i've realized that yeah um

well i mean at least i i kind of feel the same way i've i've just realized that i want to be closer to them for sure and I think maybe I don't know how long ago, maybe a few years ago, four years ago or something, my dad finally said, like,

really like said that he's proud of me.

Yeah.

consistently said that.

And you'll probably remember that fucking forever.

Oh, yeah.

Forever.

I fucking remember it forever.

And now, I mean, I just sometimes I'm like kind of excited to go see him again and go back home.

So I'm actually going to go to the Philippines in like a week.

Wow.

Kind of like partly why I are still in the Philippines?

No.

You're going to see all our extended families.

Right, right.

Okay.

And I haven't seen all of them morbidly.

We haven't seen in a while.

I feel like eight years, maybe even 10 years, something crazy.

He's going to look so different to everyone.

I'm going to look hella different, bro.

I'm going to look not.

I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'm going to be accepted.

Yeah, it's tough over there, right?

Different

tattoos and shit, right?

I don't really know what it's like over there.

I don't think they like that.

They're all very...

Real quick, guys.

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The Philippines is like very Catholic religious.

Oh, really?

At least I think it is.

Are you?

I'm spiritual and I grew up Catholic.

I believe in a lot of different things.

Yeah.

I grew up super Catholic and stuff, but

I'm like, yeah.

I don't know if you know what angelic is.

It's kind of like, you just really believe in it and like believe in spreading it.

And just like, you know, so like I don't go around to fucking like knock on doors.

But like if I hear someone that's like agnostic and stuff, I'll just kind of try to like, you know, give my perspective on why, because I was agnostic at one point.

I have one point my whole life, I'm like, you think of a fucking guy up there, like, you know, pulling shit and shit.

Oh, exactly.

But yeah.

People have at least had some phase in their life where they question things.

Exactly, yeah.

Anyone with a fucking brain.

Yeah.

So, but now that I've like, you know, kind of have a much different perspective on it, I just kind of like pick people's brains on it.

And like, I've heard of that.

And that's when I found out what Angelic Christian is.

And I was like, oh, that's pretty dope.

I think I'm that.

Do you take streams?

I've done everything, bro.

Okay.

You've done DMT?

No.

That's the only thing I haven't done.

I've done every series, every drug you can think of.

Do DMT and you will see God.

I think DMT, I would do, but then like, uh, DMT and then there's ayahuasca, right?

And like, I want to do that one day in my life, but I don't know if I'll ever be ready for that.

But DMT is is the only thing I haven't.

Is DMT acid?

DMT is different than acid, right?

Acid LSD is literally just like the scientists tried to replicate shrooms because.

So I did a tab maybe one time, I think, at like a rave or some shit, but that's not DMT.

Acid is very similar to shrooms.

Yeah, okay, yeah.

DMT, you smoke it, right?

DMT, you smoke it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've never done that shit.

I've done everything else.

I've done everything else, yeah.

I like drugs.

It'll fucking send you.

I've done every fucking season.

It'll send you to the doors, bro.

Oh, yeah.

Most.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm experimental, bro.

I like to try.

Why not, bro?

Okay.

Why not?

Well,

before you do ayahuasca, put DMT on that list.

DMT's first, okay.

And then let me know how it goes.

Let me know how it goes for you.

Oh, so you've never done DMT?

No, I did it three times.

Oh, you have done it.

I had some fucking insane, life-changing experiences for sure.

Up, down,

in the middle.

I think it's always up.

I had one experience that was very bad.

That's the shit that scares me, bro.

Yeah, it was scary but um i mean how long is that it's your mind huh how long is that

it's like 15 minutes to be honest like it feels much longer when i'm in there oh yeah it does feel much longer but when i was in it like i feel like me actually being in the other dimension like all fucked up was more like five minutes and like you're kind of like coming out of it for the next 10 slowly oh so it's so you can still be in there for the next 10 minutes but you can also choose to open your eyes and if you open your eyes it's where can i get it huh where can i get it

fucking try it right now.

That's what scares me too with shrooms.

Sometimes that shit lasts too long, bro.

Too long, bro.

Six hours.

I'm like, fuck, when's the high gonna go?

Six hours?

I did shrooms way too much.

I did too much one time, and it felt like a day, bro.

I did like almost an eighth.

So like, it felt crazy.

Damn.

Yeah.

Now I just do the little bit of chocolates, bro.

I was fucking around with a girl.

She would just hand out like ecstasy

half shroom, half ecstasy gummies, bro, at dinner.

We'd just like go out to dinner and eat or two, bro.

That shit, like micro-dosing.

Oh my God, bro.

Micro-dosing shrooms or ecstasy or bolt or whatever the fuck that is, the best shit in the world, bro.

Yeah, I think it can be really amazing.

I was actually micro-dosing,

I was micro-dosing LSD like every three days for a good like two years.

And that was, that's the tab shit, right?

Yeah, and I think it completely changed my mentality.

I used to be very like, I used to be very like cynical and uptight and kind of like...

Introvert?

I think I acted like an extrovert when I had had people around that i

but i was truly honestly more of an introvert you would say so you kind of feel like you were being when you weren't being yourself uh

dude i don't know man

i feel like when you're fucking in your early 20s or even like younger you you don't even know yourself yet i was a truly fucking moron when i was 21 bro yeah i thought i was gonna rule the world be a millionaire by 22.

yeah i was the biggest tool probably slam yeah i look back and i yeah wearing like the gym photos and shit i used to do early Fuck, bro.

But that's how you learn.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

But back then, it wasn't as corny as it is now, you know?

In it, you know what I mean?

You weren't really corny, you know what I'm saying?

But like, you look at it fucking five years ago, you're like, fuck, I was so cringe.

We probably were cringe back then, too.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you just

feel better at the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you want to be cool.

And you want to be cool.

I want to still be cool.

Yeah.

But it fucking changed my mentality for sure.

I think

I just realized things matter.

I just realized what matters a lot more than I thought.

Like at first, I think all that mattered to me was like being accepted and then like becoming something of myself so I could prove to like my family or my parents or whoever else that like I'm worth something great.

So basically like being an becoming an achiever.

I think I don't remember I did one of those tests and that's what it said like my

fucking online shit.

But I mean it kind of aligns because being like in that kind of Asian culture growing up, it was always like be the achiever, play six, seven instruments, be in choir, do five different sports, be an Eagle Scout.

It was all these things that my parents tried to put off my checklist so I could just put it down on my resume.

And instead, moving to San Diego and then having these experiences, I had like a couple of my best friends pass away and a bunch of other things.

And it kind of made me realize, like,

yeah, yeah, I realize what's more important

than just spending all my time on being fucking pissed off because like my fucking posts aren't going my way or yeah, I'm not where I want to be.

I realize, honestly, what's the most important thing in life?

Like the true riches, as my boy Tonyo says, his family, the people that I love.

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Time, bro.

Time is the most valuable shit, bro.

The one I've realized, bro, the older I get, the faster the years are, the faster the weeks, the faster the months.

It's like, fuck, bro.

Yeah, bro.

Everything is so fast now.

You work and you do this and you got to go hang out with your girl.

And it's like, there's not enough fucking time, bro.

There really isn't.

And I and I don't sleep much.

Like I sleep like from like 10, I'll go to sleep around 10 to midnight and then like I'm up 6 a.m.

every day because I can't, bro.

I need more time in the fucking day.

It's so bad, bro.

It's so bad.

But yeah, that's fucking value, bro.

Family, just health, like, you know, where we're at in life, you know, just being just good looking and healthy, bro.

It's the best time of our fucking lives, dude.

People are going to love that we said that, considering that we're probably going to talk about steroids soon.

That's okay.

I'm adding years onto my life.

I'm not taking years off.

I swear by that, yo.

Yeah.

I really do.

Why?

I would say that, what's the shit called when you're like, you want to be younger?

You know, the dude who does like all this shit to become younger?

Biohacking?

Yes.

I swear I do that shit through steroids.

I really do, bro.

How?

Just like,

okay, for one, before I did juice, I was 250 pounds, extremely overweight, eating fucking 5,000 calories a day of absolute bullshit processed shit.

If I went down that road, it would have been a lot worse.

Not saying doing steroids and being healthy is better or like whatever you want to call it, but I was down a really bad path in my life for sure switched it a little bit then found steroids and then through steroids and you know just in life

i know for a fact i'm gonna live longer just because from getting my bloods done all the time and stuff like that i'm gonna live longer than what i would i add on years on my life i did one competition and that competition cycle probably didn't add years onto my life i'll be the first

but you know doing trt or a little bit of therapeutic hgh throughout my years and you know a little bit of primo and anivar because that's really like all the shit I fuck with now I only fuck with mild shit now I'm not gonna compete ever again I know you do you compete and right you got to do things that you have to do to compete um but yeah I only fuck around with the very very mild shit now so it's like I'm definitely adding years into my life I think I'm actually really glad that you're saying that sounds like a biased opinion I know no I really like this point of view because this is a rare point of view that not many people are like freaking I guess have enough courage to say and there's people are going to think I'm crazy for sure I think i think most people on this podcast have enough coherence to understand that this is obviously true and there's a lot of people that are like this where most of us are actually like this most of us care about not dying like boston lloyd yes i'm sorry i have to say it like no it's fucking true most of us care so like why would you be blasting five ten grams to get somewhere nah dude you're like if you haven't slow and steady any right kind of mind slow and steady about so like and

Obviously, these are all based off of our goals.

And just like you said, you're not going to compete.

Of course.

But

I'm sure playing devil's advocate that most people,

at least if I consider the people that are going to watch like the Jubilee video, like the Millgrounds video, and a lot of these people are probably going to be natural or not know anything about steroids.

Right.

They're probably going to judge heavily.

Like,

are you literally just, maybe they'll just, I've, I feel like they would question your

perception and your motives and be like, well, are you just using these steroids as an excuse for why you finally lost weight?

Like, could you not do this by yourself?

Um, That's definitely comes care to like people's use of Ozempic.

I don't know.

What do you think about that?

Ozempic or what you were saying before?

What I was saying before.

I think honestly, it's just like anything else, bro.

Like you choose what you do, you choose what you love, and you let it kill you, bro.

So like, it's not necessarily I'm not going to let it kill me.

You know what I mean?

But like, I'm willing to go to the gym every single day and do the lifestyle and do the stuff that I love and will always do too, like, you know, because I love it, bro.

And, like, if it does kill me at the end of the day, whatever, bro.

You know what I mean?

I know it sounds fucked, but it's the truth, bro.

It's just like anything else.

People work so hard at certain shit and at jobs and this and that and stress themselves out.

Literally, kill, like, literally lets it kill you.

You know what I mean?

Do something that you love and like, you know what I mean?

And let it kill you.

Don't fucking go nuts over it.

Like you were saying, don't go nuts over yourself.

And you're like, fuck, I don't even want to do this shit.

You know what I mean?

So that's, I guess, what I would say.

Yeah, I think I lost the weight.

I could have done this shit, but like, I wanted to speed speed up the process.

I wanted to

see how I could do it.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And, like, yo, fuck it.

I want to do it.

Yeah.

You know, fucking hope.

That's fucking how most people probably feel.

Exactly.

And of course, we're probably going to have those fucking

people that are hating that are just literally like projecting,

saying that you're using it as a crutch or like you're using some kind of bad substance when literally all these people are probably eating themselves the tomatoes.

Yep.

Drinking up.

Yes, drinking alcohol consistently and that's their healthy it's like i don't even we all have our bands you know we all choose what we want to use but i mean who matters if you diff it's your own body and you're figuring out how to stay healthy better bro

i know it sounds crazy but they do a vape you smoke six vapes a day you do coke all the time for a year you're fucking gonna die or you're gonna be 100 pounds skin and bones same thing alcohol you drink alcohol every fucking day i know steroids a little different but like bro you do steroids for a year you fucking turn into captain america so it's like what the you know not everyone but you know what i'm saying like

dude do the drug that makes you a beast not the one that ruined your life and you have to steal your mom's purse to pawn it and go get more coke you know what i mean

yeah well i mean both are bad

they're bad but

i i see your point but i would argue and say that um That's not true because it depends on the person.

Like, you can do Coke.

Some people could probably take Coke on a like a, maybe not like a everyday basis, but whenever they choose to, and these people are really successful

in their empire, whatever they're working in.

Yeah, exception doesn't make the rule, but and

so you could also be that guy who takes steroids for a year and fucking who is blasting his fucking heads off with a lot of people that we know basically fucking kills his insides, kills going insane, kills his insides, fucking um breaks up with his girlfriend, dad eats the shit out of his girlfriend, pulled in her socks wrong, yeah, crazy fucking shit, yeah, because fucks an avocado, just fucks an bro you've heard the crazy trend stories oh yeah um

i was actually listening to more plates say the reason for why he believes that uh the whole like trend turns you gay thing is like a thing so how do you feel on how do you like okay i a question for you because i'll tell you my opinion i've never felt a steroid ever

i think that's uh i mean i mean i think that's just you but that's like yeah so like a lot of people would probably feel like that too people

am i more confident now that I'm fucking jacked?

Yes.

And you know what I mean?

But I've felt a lot of side effects and stuff from a fucking 12-week prep and no carbs for six weeks.

Yeah, I'm the most irritable person in the fucking world, but I've never felt anything from a steroid.

People say, oh, I did MPP.

I want to kill myself.

Oh, I did this and I did EQ and I'm the most confident man in the world.

I'm like, what the fuck?

I do it.

I get jacked.

I feel the same.

I feel better in the morning for sure.

My workouts are better.

But feeling something?

Nah.

How do you feel on that?

Do you?

Tell me more about what you feel.

Like, oh, you've done Trent, obviously.

Yeah.

Do you feel anything crazy on that shit?

I did feel Trent.

Yeah, I fucking feel it.

Like what?

It wasn't.

You love Trent or hate Trent?

I dislike it.

Yeah.

And I just don't want to use it.

Nah.

I'm a slight hypochondriac.

I don't know what the fuck that means, but...

Like, I feel like I could have a lot of different things.

Like, I'm nervous about my health.

I'm always paranoid.

So I'm going to

to make sure.

And I think that's probably why I started this podcast because my reason I didn't want to take gear in the first place was for those reasons.

Like I just touched on it in the Jubilee shit and you how you were like super scared of it.

I already like got myself into depression on accident.

Well, not on accident.

I just was fucking stupid and I didn't really research enough.

Plus the gear thing wasn't really talked about when I when I started that, you know, just it's like the only thing that was on the internet were like all the blogs.

I know bodybuilding.com, fucking Reddit, forums and all the stuff.

That's what I was looking at.

And it fucking did.

I've gotten cycles off that 100%.

Yeah, bro.

But

like my boy Devin Bernard is like you.

He says he like doesn't feel anything here.

Like he always feels good.

He feels fine.

He doesn't feel any changes or anything.

When I'm on tier, it's good.

I feel like shit in the morning sometimes, whatever.

But when I'm on, I'm good.

But other than that.

And then my boy, and then like my boy Marco, for example, like

yours just made him feel like dog shit.

Or like he would feel really, really great when he's on it.

But the moment he came off, he just was like everything went down the drain.

That's the name of the game.

Worst fucking way, and it changed like the way he would think, and he'd get him paranoid about himself.

And I think that's just genetics, dude.

I literally think it's just genetics.

Like, yeah, to a certain level, like you can have a certain amount of mental fortitude, but sometimes those are also in your genetics.

Like, you can literally look up your genetics and it'll literally state certain aspects about your personality that you're more likely to have, too.

What is that, like 23andMe, or like something?

Um, what I did is I went a 23andMe, and then um I asked them for my raw data took them like a month or so whatever they finally gave it to me and then my boy and I input it into this uh site called uh promethease geez that gave us like a hell of a random like all the different combinations and everything it was cool bro it was cool really cool to like find out stuff about yourself that's awesome yeah it was kind of mind-blowing it's a little it's a little like nerve-wracking because you see some of that shit that you're like prone to dude getting i'm like i'm gonna have like a bunch of arthritis and shit when i get older i'm I'm like, it makes sense why everything's already fucking cracking and popping and I can't lift heavy weights anymore.

Wow.

So it tells you all that shit too, huh?

It told me a lot of things.

Yeah.

Told me personality types, told me I am like,

I can't remember what it was, but it's this gene that's like more common in like MMA fighters.

That's like, you don't have as much like, I think adrenaline

or maybe dopamine in your system.

Or is it dopamine?

I don't know.

You don't have enough, you don't have as much of this certain level in your system, but then it makes you like a lot more calm in reaction to certain things.

So you're a moment.

I think it's a little bit easier for, for like MMA fighters, for example, to make decisions

in such a

slim amount of time.

That was the fucking hardest.

I know what you're trying to say.

Holy shit.

We might have not smirked a little bit before this.

I, yeah.

Yeah, but like, you know, if literally your own genes can tell you like what

type of personality that you may have, you know what i mean then

i've never heard of that i think all these reactions to steroids are a majority of it is going to be genetics if not everything is you know

genetics is the superior of anything in bodybuilding you know yeah i think but people don't understand though i think people have a misconception on genetics there's different genetics like insertions are genetics you know what i mean but then you could also have a really good reaction to gear and that's also genetics too no that's also genetics you know what i'm saying so like me personally i think i have pretty good genetics like insertions and stuff like that but i think my like thing is my reaction to gear like i blew the up off gear so like i don't think i have the best like like nick walker style in a sense yeah i wouldn't um like who who am i thinking like someone with just crazy genetics uh you know you're like fucking cbum you know what i mean like his insertions are just like i don't have that but when i do juice bro i can not turn into c bum but you know what i mean mean?

Like, I turn into freaky looking.

So, like, that's why, like, kind of steroids changed my life in a sense, where it like just turned everything different.

Like, I'm very veiny and stuff.

So, like, when I'm on juice, bro, and that's it's just like

amazing.

I hate to like boast of that.

It's just how it is, bro.

It's just how it is for me, at least, you know.

I haven't seen any bads really from juice, bro.

Give me a wholesome reason.

What?

Give me a wholesome reason to what?

To do juice?

Oh, yeah.

I don't know.

I guess, yeah.

Well, you know, it makes you more confident.

It makes you just better.

It just makes you like, I don't know, but I don't really agree with that shit either.

People say they're sharper on test.

And like, well, you feel that?

I feel more motivated.

And

yeah, I feel better on motivated.

Honestly, I think I agree with the entire argument of like being on TRT and having a good test level, regardless if it's from TRT or not, but being in a really, really good test.

Yeah, around a thousand is literally going to do all of those things.

Mental clarity, get you easier, get more energy when you're getting up a day.

But it's it's health maxing.

I swear, bro, it is, bro.

It is, it is, bro.

And when you wake up and you're happy and you have less stress and you feel good, bro, that's going to make you live longer too, bro.

I don't even think it's an argument anymore.

Everybody knows that TRT is just the best.

Like, having good testage levels is literally the best thing you can do for yourself.

It's a bad myth, though.

It's a misconception.

You know what I mean?

But it's turning.

The rock is turning.

It used to be beat up your girlfriend, hang yourself steroid

rage kill someone, you know I mean we're starting to have a lot more education, which is obviously what I said on the jungle is like my favorite part about it You're a big part of that, bro because podcast just gives a lot of fucking information gives a lot of education, bro.

That's really why I was so happy to come on here, bro.

Because people can learn from us, bro.

And it sounds corny.

It might sound stupid, but like, bro, this is how I make my money, bro.

So like.

I'm talking to you, fucking around, talking about steroids, educating people, and I can't make money off of this.

Like, what the fuck, bro?

This is amazing.

This is like perfect picture, perfect setup, you know?

Yeah.

Talk about something you love, you know, I mean, same thing with you, you know?

Well, for me, like, you know, I didn't, um,

I didn't know what I was fucking doing.

So, like, the people that saved my life, the people that helped me were one, like if you go on like a red page or something and someone posts about like you or whatever, like all these symptoms that they're having and whatever, then you'll see like someone has that experience or explains like his result, his like reaction to it.

And then it'll have like the most upvotes.

And then that's how you know that like this reaction that you're also having, like he does, all these other people are having it.

So it's probably from this thing.

And like, you can start creating connections.

You can start figuring out how to like be your healthiest self or have the best wellness while you're on this.

Obviously,

like we were mentioning before, we were talking about how TRT is healthy.

Steroids, in my opinion, are not in the way that steroids are used.

It's never going to be healthy.

It's never going to be better for your health.

Absolutely.

But you can always do

a million different fucking things to be as risk-averse as possible.

It's a all-evil or whatever.

Right, exactly.

So it affects you in the least way possible.

So we can literally name down what, like 100 bodybuilders that are still alive today

that look fucking amazing, have a great life, have a wife and kids, all these things.

They're fine.

You know what I mean?

And they were able to do their biggest passion, which is bodybuilding.

Yeah.

They wanted to do the competitive place.

A lot of people don't know when to hang it up, though.

That's what

a lot of people.

Yeah, bro.

And if you hang it up at the right time and do it healthily and, you know, should be all right.

There's just a lot of ways that we can be like proactive about our health.

For sure.

So I'm not saying that like this is an excuse for anyone to use it.

Like the reason that I want to talk about these things is for the people that already

that are already like lost their nanny card.

And, you know, once you're there, you're there.

So

there's just so many things that we can do to make sure that we're doing fine.

And like when I first started gear or I first got on any of these compounds and didn't know shit, I was having the worst fucking time, to be honest.

Really?

Like, I was going through some crazy, crazy fluctuations in

my thoughts and

how I felt about things.

My decisions were definitely different and kind of revolved around more aggression.

And I think when I finally started figuring out what these were from, because of like people that would help me or like, my boys that I would meet at the gym that would like help me out

that have been through this or experienced this or have done competitions or been on gear and then could literally be there as a mentor or be there as advice.

That's kind of what I was going to say.

I feel like I would have gone

through not knowing what to do, you know, is get a mentor, bro.

Someone knows how to do it.

Right, but like, that's the thing is like a lot of people don't have that.

Yeah, bro.

Like, a lot of people don't have the resources.

Like, not everyone's Sebum who has like all.

these resources of like his brother-in-law and his his family that bodybuilds like being in an actual bodybuilding family family, right?

Like, people like me, for example, grew up with

an Asian household.

Like, I have

zero connections to this whatsoever.

The only reason that I was able to get this is because I met a dude who had this coach that was in Chicago, that was like three hours away from my university or whatever at the time, all this stuff.

And then, after like three, four competitions, he was pushing things for me to take.

And then finally, I started taking some pills.

Like, that's a very long road, you know what I mean?

Um, so

any of these people could be,

I don't know, from whatever lifestyle factors pressured into taking it or

be motivated to take it for some reason, and then they do it before they know that it's the right decision for them or something.

And then now they're here.

So, what's the best thing we can do?

I feel like monitor your hormones, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm pretty sure when I first started, I was extra aggressive because my estrogen was probably on range.

I feel like my estrogen was too high at certain points, and I didn't really realize that.

I didn't know what to take to moderate that.

I didn't know any of these things.

Estrogen was.

Right, exactly.

I didn't even want to think about getting blood work done.

I didn't know what

blood work was at the time.

And then when I found out about it, I had fucking tons of anxiety because I'm like, dude, are you telling me I need to stick a fucking needle through my arm and get blood pulled out?

Yeah.

Fuck no.

So I had the fucking hardest.

Yeah, no, that's crazy.

But checking your bloods and checking where your hormones are.

Like the hormone level is like the most important part.

Like you think about women that are going through your cycles, the reason that they're having so many mental and emotional fluctuations is because of their fluctuation of their hormones.

Same thing with guys.

If your hormones are fluctuating because of what you're taking

or because of lifestyle factors, you're going to have the same mental and emotional fluctuations too.

Up and down, yeah.

You want to be stable, bro.

So, and then same thing goes with like your organs doing the same blood work.

Just check up that your organs are doing fine, your heart's staying healthy because you don't fucking feel the symptoms of cardiovascular disease whatsoever.

And you look good on the outside, but you don't, your insides don't look good.

Right.

My number one thing would be: if anyone's listening right now, is keep it simple, bro.

All these, kind of like what you were saying with Boston Lloyd, bro.

Once you're experimenting with shit that people haven't fucked around with, and like you're taking these, all these new, these new fucking newest peptiles, you're saying, oh, Zempic, now it's retra, now reta, now it's this, now it's that.

Like, keep it simple, bro.

That would be my biggest, bro.

Like,

kind of like what I was saying before, bro.

Test the easy shit, bro.

Var, primo, shit like that.

Why don't you start fucking around with the crazy shit?

Because then that's another thing, too.

Once you try one thing, you're going to, I mean, at least for me, that's kind of what I said.

Like, I've tried every steroid because I just want to know.

I want to know.

I have my favorites.

I have what I like and what I don't like.

Like, obviously, trend is king.

You'll never be anything better on trend, but is that the best decision to fucking make?

Absolutely not.

You know what I mean?

So, like, obviously, I want to be on trend my whole life and look like fucking insane stage ready all the time but it's just not the so i take it that you feel fine on trend you feel good on trend amazing amazing i've only done it once

um i did it like for three weeks then stopped you know shit happens in your life and whatever and then i did it for my competition but bro my

last six four weeks of my competition were brutal bro and i don't know if it was the drugs but bro i'm not having fucking carbs i'm not doing this two hours of cardio you know how it is bro like so, like, is it the drugs?

I don't know.

Or is it the prep?

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's hard to do.

Haven't talked to a girl in 16 weeks.

You can't go out to dinner.

You can't meet.

It's any fun, bro.

Yeah.

Like, it's the whole collective, bro.

And, you know, steroids don't fucking help.

Even for natty people, preps are fucking hard, bro.

Yeah.

Hard as fuck.

Yeah.

So I think the lack of energy is the number one thing that causes some of that irritability and that just like, I don't want to fucking talk to you type shit.

And no food.

You have nothing to look forward to.

You got like 10 weeks to go so you can have a fucking donut like bro

yeah bro but it's great bodybuilder mascus i loved it yeah i i love it well that's what people don't understand too bro every kid on tick tock nowadays wants to be a bodybuilder and stuff like that which is fine that's great that's great but bro bodybuilding is a very weird sport Anyone who does anything the shit that we do is not necessarily normal.

You know what I mean?

No, come on, right?

Bro.

Yeah.

Bro, eating at the same time every fucking day like a dog.

You know what I mean?

Like just doing all the crazy shit that you do as a bodybuilder, people want to normalize it, but there's really nothing normal about it, bro.

Being normal is fucking eating three times a day.

You have your eggs in the morning with bacon.

You have your fucking sandwich at lunch.

You know what I mean?

Your mom or whatever cooks dinner.

You know what I mean?

Or whatever.

But like that's normal.

Being a fucking psychopath that we are and eating at the same time every day, protein this time, bringing the bag to the gym, bringing your intra-card, bringing this, bringing that.

It's like, it's fucking, I love it.

Not for everyone, though.

You know what I mean?

They're trying to make it as normalized as possible.

There's nothing normal about bodybuilding.

So did you ever feel like taking something like Trent was exacerbating what you were feeling?

Exactly.

What?

Like heightening?

Yeah, like exaggerating what you were feeling before you took it.

Maybe.

I think

anything is going to heighten everything.

Like any drug or steroid is going to heighten a little bit.

You know what I mean?

If you're depressed, you're going to be more depressed.

If you're an asshole, you're going to be more of an asshole.

You know what I mean?

So I feel that a little bit, but the diet is what makes me feel the worst, in my opinion.

So what I think is the way I feel about these substances is certain substances, obviously, some people react differently.

So like, you know, maybe like

trend for you doesn't really exacerbate like your normal emotions or your normal thoughts as much as somebody else.

But in my opinion, in my view, and from all these bodybuilders I've talked to and all these other athletes and people that I've spoken to, it's pretty common knowledge.

No, you're not crazy, bro.

This is pretty aligned.

It seems pretty common that like it exacerbates what you're feeling.

So, when you're on prep and you're those last three weeks or something, you throw some extra fuel to the fire, you know, some extra like halo test or extra trend.

And if you're not someone that reacts very well with it, bro, that's gonna.

I took halo, you're gonna go nuts.

You didn't feel anything.

Me neither.

People are like, yo, I took halo.

I wanted to run through the fucking wall.

I wanted to smash a 45 on.

Bro, I didn't feel shit.

Like, what?

Give me two.

I'll try two.

One did nothing.

But yeah.

But you saw, you saw changed your physique, though.

Yeah, I did it only for like the last two weeks for like your pump or whatever.

Like, dude, I was doing so much fucking shit, bro.

I was doing a little bit of fucking so much shit, bro.

People don't realize how much fucking shit you have to do, bro.

People run.

People run a lot of shit.

Yeah, preps, right?

It's crazy.

And I think most of the time it's more than they need because I think the classic division and the men's physique division do not need that much anymore.

Yeah.

It's the open division that you need to stay as full and as round and as big as possible.

And how do you fucking do that easily easily without just stuffing yourself with thousands of grams of carbs right before stage that gets you bloated is fucking have higher doses of compounds especially the ones that are hardening yeah but if you're like in men's physique or you're a classic physique you see a lot of these physiques that are super striated and dry and like not as full but it's more like you can see more definition and when you like start ramping up doses more your water retention increases you get heavier you get bigger right right

well that's not really what you want you want to show as many lines as possible for some people it'll work well but for some people that for example stay as big like Samson Doudo or something dude imagining that he was like a classic or something or for example like me like I stay like I stay more watered than I stay dry it's easier for me to run lower compounds and then look drier going up to the show so like uh like men's physique dudes like they look really nice and cut up but like sometimes when those guys get too much gear than their body can hold you can literally see the lines blurring and they they start looking really yeah, like their veins start popping out more.

Some of the lines start blurring a little bit less.

They just become bigger overall.

Like their arms get bigger, their shoulder get bigger, their traps get bigger, their waist gets a little bigger.

But now it's also not as like fucking

as, yeah, just like statue-like looking.

Right.

And I always like, I wasn't 100% sure of this.

This is just something I saw daily or I saw consistently until I talked to some coaches like, you know, Stefan Kienzel.

He's like like the most talked about coach in the IFPB right now.

Wait, he's a coach?

Yeah.

I'm thinking of the black dude,

like

insane arms.

Like, he always has a height difference.

What's that guy's name?

Do you guys, do you know who I'm talking about?

A height difference.

He's always got like a height problem.

Like, he's always getting heighted different.

Oh, like the guy's name, Stefan.

No, it's a.

You know who I'm talking about?

Is it Stephane NFC?

Something.

That's what I'm thinking of.

Maybe who you're talking about.

I know who you're talking about.

that's the client of um

that guy looks yeah insane patrick tour is that guy's coach i don't know if i know but stefan keinzel is like one of the other coaches that's really taunted about and that's urs's coach oh okay wesley vizors coach that's why i've seen him that's martin's coach who just competed against steamboat and beat him in open

um and that guy said the exact same thing is like dude just keep it simple yes keep it simple like during prep fucking keep that shit simple too yeah because all these little variables that people keep changing is causing causing a a lot of problems.

And like both Patrick Tour and Stefan told me, like, as you ramp up doses, or if you take too much gear or do any of those things, it starts to blur lines.

And you want to make sure that you have good definition on stage, especially if you're in men's physique and classic, you want to be like real

defined, you know.

I'm trying to compare it to my prep because I did a lot of shit, but like I said, I did it all so low-dosed.

So like, I don't think I looked grainy as fuck.

So like, I'm hoping that I like, I'm going to show you a picture, like, I'll show you after.

after so i'm like hopefully you don't say i look like what you're describing it's just but it's all a balance like you can look at it on a scale like as you fill out more and more you look bigger and you look better and but your lines start going away yeah you get if you if you take away the compounds or take away the carbs either one of those two you get more defined and more cut up

and like have more definition and more lines and detail and but then you get but then you get flatter yeah you look more stringy so it's like you got to find like this middle ground for whatever division you're in.

And obviously all the divisions have a very clear, defining, different look.

I was supposed to think it was what, who Sadiq?

Sadiq went from, which I thought was pretty, I thought it was pretty dope of what he said.

I think he went from physique to classic or he went from classic down to physique.

He switched between the two.

So it was in physique first, then he went up.

Then he went up, but didn't he go back down?

He went back down.

Yeah.

And they're like, did your cycle change?

He was like, no.

I was like, that's a pretty W of him to say as like, honestly.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, but he, I think you just said he ramped up the car or he ramped the calories during for classic.

Um, that makes sense.

I don't remember if he ramped up any of the gear at all, just a little bit for classic or not, but he definitely wrapped up the calories for sure.

Yeah, for classic, I always liked him.

He was really, I, he was, I'm a New York guy, so I used to see him work out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I always liked him.

He's great.

His physique is awesome, that guy.

Right.

Like we were talking too, like men's physique is now like a core and an ab division.

And I noticed, bro, I don't know about Sadiq, but like for me, for example, like when I came off my compounds at the end of my last prep, I looked fucking, I looked good when I was like stepping on stage for the first time.

Second time was okay.

But when I came off all the compounds, like the week after, but I still had the same diet because I was just reverse dieting, right?

Same calories, but I came off the compounds.

And you look better?

One week later, I can literally show pictures.

I should probably show the podcast the pictures too, so then people could actually see it.

Throw it up on an up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll probably do that.

But I had more definition and I had more lines, huh?

And in my opinion, for men's physique, I probably would have done

better.

I probably should have because my did you pull your test and stuff, obviously?

Yeah, we did pull the test, but it makes me wonder the type of test that my coach had me taking maybe was not as fast acting as people are normally on at that time.

So I feel like my test probably should have pulled out,

been pulled out a little bit sooner, sooner, yeah.

But honestly, coming off all the compounds just flattened me a lot.

I lost three pounds in that next week, but then I was like more defined as well.

So just water

in general dropped off, if that makes sense, both subcutaneous and it could have been the stress and stuff too.

The stress could have helped, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, bro.

That's true.

Though the thing is, too, what you were saying too is what I learned from my coach as well, and what I do with my clients is now too, if my client's competing or whatever, kind of what you're saying is you want to keep all the variables as like least as possible.

You don't want to be throwing in this whole fucking salad you know what i mean so

yeah like so when

kind of what my coach did and what i you know learned from him and i with my clients is you just keep everything the same but but just pulling you know pull a little food one week or you know add masturon one week like you know what i mean and like continually do one by one until you really can't change anything else and then whatever you add 10 minutes of cardio or whatever yeah but people try to throw in okay 12 weeks you throw in this you get off this you throw all in this like what the fuck, bro?

I know it's how it some works, obviously.

Some compounds, you take six weeks out, some just, but yeah, I've seen a lot of protocols.

I'm sure you've seen, like,

what the fuck, bro?

Yeah, bro.

I think that shit just like requires a lot of attentiveness.

Like, if you're a coach and you really care about the clients and you want the clients to do well, you got to have some fucking attentiveness to them and have them different.

Because I've seen coaches throw in the kitchen sink to a bunch of my friends, and a lot of them will like have heart palpitations.

Like my boy Nathan, who won his show, he got first overall.

He fucking has the best genetics, dude.

And that guy fucking just quit bodybuilding.

No way.

He's like, I couldn't sleep.

I was just, I was embarrassed mentals, bro.

It's just not for me.

It's not worth it for some people, yeah.

But in my opinion, I think it's just because his fucking his coach fucked him up.

I think he just took too much.

Yeah.

I think he took more than he needed.

Well, that's what I was saying earlier, too, bro.

It's like slow and steady, bro.

And then, like, okay, whatever.

You fuck up your one show.

Then you could, you go back to the drawing room.

It's no.

It's true that it's also not for everybody.

But but like like i'm saying bro like just like any drug that you're taking when you have side effects there's a dose for a reason yes it doesn't mean go up if you're having more side effects go down just go down don't stay at the same it's okay to not stay at the same dose you can figure it out things off that's oh okay never again let's not do that

so like

for example like nandrolones and like um

like trend or nandrolone like these seem to cause a lot of mental issues for people sometimes they don't cause any issues eq's and Andron, right?

No, no, no.

No.

EQ and Nanovar are different.

But

these two compounds tend to cause some mental issues with certain people.

Like if you're taking trend in the last few weeks of a prep or something, and you're not sleeping and you're feeling the symptoms of like feeling edgy or on edge and shit and extra aggressive or unhappy.

No, I'm saying during prep, you know, just

made me like that, bro.

No sleep, edgy, just like, yeah.

Cutting in general is terrible.

You know, Most of these people are taking enough wind stroll as is to make them look dry.

You don't need extra tread on top.

Nah, I mean, it depends, but it'll help some people, but like the guy next to you, though.

If it's fucking you up, then just fucking stay on the wind stroll already.

But then you'll lose.

What?

I lose.

Bro, I...

That's...

You're different, bro.

No, I 100% disagree, bro.

I believe that Seabub has been going on stage without tread because he's got autoimmune disease.

I don't believe that for a second, bro.

All right.

Tell me why.

Just because, bro,

he looks better every year, right?

Yeah.

Stays the same weight.

So he's not going to have trend, bro.

What's he doing, Primo?

Primo's not going to give you the shit that Trend does.

I think Chris.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

That doesn't make any sense already.

What?

That you just mentioned that

he's competing every year, staying at the same weight.

Why would he ever want to gain any mass?

He's going to not be able to.

Oh, no, he has a cap.

I'm saying he looks better at the same weight.

Yeah.

And you're saying he's not on trend?

That's fucking impossible.

If he was doing trend, how?

If he was doing trend before, and then now he's because his cap, he's staying at the same weight, looking better with no trend.

Come on, bro.

That's hard to believe, don't you think?

One, he's not looking better.

He basically looks the same.

Sometimes he'll look a little bit better.

I will say, he looks busy.

Once

he missed, yeah, yeah.

He basically looks the same.

No, sometimes he fine grains, but yes, you are right.

They compare it and they kind of clown him, but it's like, dude, he has a weight cap.

What's he supposed to do?

He can't get any bigger, you know?

Yes, he can't be bigger.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So that's what I'm saying is like, all right, this is, this is my favorite fucking argument to have because I'm fucking, no offense to you.

No offense to you, bro.

But like, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of tired of seeing like the dumbasses that'll comment on something saying that everybody has to be on trend.

No, not everyone.

It's literally clear that you know nothing, bro.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Um, because one, everything is individual.

Like literally more plates, more dates said this on Joe Rogan's podcast himself.

So you can argue with more plates, but literally all of these things.

I think that's all of these idiot, though.

More plates when they're smart with the shit and stuff.

You see his video when he worked out?

He doesn't even know how to work out.

Have you seen that video with him?

I haven't seen the video.

I'll show you that after this.

No, I obviously, he's very smart.

Like, don't, you know, I'm obviously being an asshole, but yeah, I think some of his stuff is, but I obviously that guy's the fucking goat for me.

Yeah, but these are all individual.

They're all individual based.

All drugs are.

Right.

No matter what.

Everyone reacts to different substances.

It's if you say that people can have different genetics, but then you say that everyone reacts to the same drug, you're a fucking idiot.

No, that's stupid.

You're an idiot.

Yeah.

Like, no offense.

Don't mean to be mean.

But

just like everybody has different genetics, just like you and I look completely different and react differently to other things.

We think different things.

We also react differently to drugs.

Right?

Two.

Winstroll, Halotestin, Masteron, DHT-derived steroids.

What do they do to how you look?

Yeah, they sucking you up.

They harden you.

Yeah.

What does Trend do to how you look?

Same thing.

Then why do you have to be on Trend?

Because Trend does all the other shit while it does

come on bro

i just think so you're saying he's the number one in the world at everything in the entire world and he doesn't do trend that's tough bro bro i

i this is the first time i took trend

different though so a lot of people can be yeah maybe maybe some okay i'm not gonna say that there's one in a trend he's one in a billion maybe there's some people that just don't get the look that they feel like is the best look for them unless they're literally on only trend okay what about specifically you think he's on mint

bro i would never take mint i that is the scariest i wouldn't touch mint i would never do that in a in a million years bro that's what i'm saying bro people are like yo just microdose i don't like

the away i don't think c bum is on trend because he has an autoimmune disease he gets his blood work done like every two weeks according to ian he has a wife and a daughter and he just quit and retired bodybuilding yeah because of the that family that's why i don't think he's on trend because i think he can get such a he's with hanny rambaud too like bro like if you're working out for what 15 years yeah he's got this you know think about all the different resources he has in bodybuilding think about all the different compounds he has available to him why does he have to take trend the one compound he's got to win bro like if he does if he reacts well whatever it takes if he reacts well to trend bro i'll do whatever it takes but i won't take trend you'll never do trend again you'll never do trend again i would prefer don't you want to be an olympian i got to the i of bb without even injecting test pro i got pro without injecting you got a pro now while you were natural i wasn't i wasn't natural i oh just you you said you were doing anovar or whatever i was doing dumbass that i didn't know i was just taking those pills from my coach so i i i turned pro only in men's physique so it's not that impressive dude but i turned don't say it like that i turned man bro that's awesome

on wind stroll and halo testing

so there was no trend there was no test like it just how long these things will make you look a certain way but like just like most just like all of the experts in the pros in the field that have taken gear for years they will say the same thing as me as you can't you cannot detect exactly what compound somebody is on i don't agree with that either you could see it a little bit but i don't agree yeah you could be like oh he's on maybe dht derived yeah because he's hardened but you can't just right pick out exact no like gear people do that on tick tock and they're like oh no this guy's on this and it's like that's the dumbest i've ever heard so why would you take like if you are someone that doesn't react to trend you react okay to trend.

So, maybe it's harder for you to believe that other people won't be on it.

But for people, like, like me or my friends who, like, for example, um, get night sweats, can't sleep, it affects our recovery, it affects how we act with our families and our relationships.

Like, what if this is fucking causing your relationships to end?

I would fucking drop out of a competition if that's if it's causing my relationships to end.

Right.

I can do a competition again, maybe three months later or whatever, but the relationship is over when it's over or something.

Like, that's just a rough example, you know, of course, it's a shitty example.

But, like,

like, there's some people have higher priorities than certain dramas.

Not the Olympian, though.

The Olympian, you don't have much of a priority that wins.

I get it.

If you want to be number one, man, but like, I just, I personally think that it's so you'll never do trend again.

John Jewett said that if trend is hurting you, then you need to take it out of your prep.

Yeah.

And why would that be, right?

Like, you're not getting any sleep.

You're going to look like shit on stage.

Right.

If you're an Olympian and you want to be the best and you're not yeah

you're gonna take that tread out right well and also it really depends too like i feel like that's an example of the kind of people that were too stubborn to like take a compound out or for sure or something like that 100 you know because well that's the vibe of it though it's like tough it out you got to do it you got to make it to you know like that's kind of like the that's just like that's just kind of nah it's no good yeah like you want to like you want to be conscious about yourself and your decisions so and definitely want to be sleeping yeah you want to be sleeping man so that's why i say that you just can't you can't you can't have a blanket statement you can't say like fucking all men are secretly misogynist no of course yeah you can't say that all fucking bodybuilders all secretly take trend no matter what like the good ones i never took trend until this last show

that's a that's this was my first time taking trend and but also

up to a hundred million

you know nothing against you you don't look like an open bodybuilder these craziness like you know what I mean?

Yeah, but you said bodybuilders.

You never said

open bodybuilder.

I don't think every bodybuilder and every single person on stage is doing it, but I think the higher levels and stuff, yes, 98%.

But

you're a fucking exception.

The exception doesn't make the rule.

That's all I wanted to.

That's all I wanted to hear, bro.

I just wanted to say that not everybody is for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Because

I could get with that.

There is a fact that if you look at what is prescribed by a lot of coaches in prep, especially on the Olympian level, you will normally see somewhere at least around 300 milligrams of tread.

Even if it's just the last.

I could go through the list right now of what people are on.

That's very common.

Test.

In a prep, you do what?

Will you do 20-week, we'll say?

So, like, what?

From week 20 to 12, you're on test, primo,

maybe var.

I just, the reason that I'm saying these things, the reason that I'm like so, the reason I'm so fucking uptight about this argument is because I was the kid on the other side that just, that listened to what people were saying.

And now that I realize certain things aren't true, now I realize that I don't have to take trend or I don't have to do the shit that makes me feel like shit.

I can relate to that too.

I want to let people know that, I want to, I want to let people know that you don't have to do the things that you don't feel good on.

Yeah.

You don't, like, that's what kills people.

If you fucking see your blood work going down the drain, you're getting stressed it's the worst aren't sleeping your fucking blood work looks like shit you're not gonna look good on stage like but you think that everybody has to take trend and you think that everybody has you have to stay on this you're gonna die dude

so i'm just like saying like you can you can just be smart bro and don't have to be dumbass you know you don't have to take trend if you don't want to definitely not and then that kind of like what you were saying and i kind of see what you're saying too is um yeah you see all this people on social media and stuff and like say, if you look good, he's on trend.

People think trend is test.

You know what I mean?

Like the people that, you know, not like.

Yeah, they make, it's like the

people think trend.

It's literally the blanket meme word.

Yes, exactly.

Trend has become the meme of like girls will ask me, oh, you're on trend.

I'm like, yeah.

Like they're like, oh, isn't that steroids?

I'm like, yes, trend is steroids, but there's a thousand other steroids.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's the devil, bro.

That shit is devil in the bottle.

You know what I mean?

Not for me.

Not for me.

But yeah, like, so it's, it's gotten a

myths of bodybuilding have changed.

So like, like we were saying, you know, it used to be the myth of like Reudrage, craziness.

Now it's like everyone's on trend.

Now everyone's not natty.

Now everyone's, so it's like, it's, but again, you are so different too, because you just, you're like another type of, but I understand because like what you're kind of saying is you, it's almost, you get discredited.

You're, you're, all your work gets discredited when you're on juice.

You know what what I mean?

So like now it's like everyone thinks like oh if you have a sick body It definitely gets discredited because you're on trend.

So it's like yeah bullshit now.

Yeah.

When it's guys like you and me I mean I don't I've done trend once or twice and I know I look better than 99% of the people, but the kid that sees me and you on posting a TikTok is like, oh, he's on trend.

But it's like, it's not fucking like that.

Yeah.

Like, but then again, there are people who look like shit and don't look like me and you and are on trend, bro.

So it goes either way, bro.

I've had clients sign up with me, Never looked like they worked out a day in their life.

They're on 500 megs of trend.

I'm like, what is going on, bro?

That's crazy.

Yes, bro.

500 test, 500 trend.

Damn.

Doesn't look like they work out.

Damn.

Now they do.

You know, they worked under me, you know, my clients.

But yeah, it's crazy, bro.

It's all the misconception of you.

And kind of like what you were touching on before is like, I don't even know where the fuck these people get it from, bro.

It was hard for me to get it for a while.

It was hard for me to get it for a while.

Then I met up with some dude, whatever, owned a nutrition shop, became friends with him, you know, every fucking nutrition shop back in.

Still, sells it out the back door.

Your boy says you're ready.

You're like, fuck it.

And then, yeah, you do it.

So,

but I don't have any regrets on steroids and stuff.

I don't know about you.

I mean, I don't have any regrets because I wouldn't be here.

Right.

I don't regret anything at all.

It changed my life too, bro.

Yeah.

Changed my life.

Like, bro, when I was a fat kid and I sit in the supermarket, people would cut me in line.

And like, you know what I mean?

Now, they're like, oh, no, go, sir.

Go.

I'm like, bro, it's all good, bro.

Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You just, it just changes everything bro being in shape in general but then when you get the steroidal like to you where like people stare at you and then you know how it is you when I'm walking through a club with a hot ass fucking girl and every single girl guy is staring at her staring at her tits or whatever and then they see me behind her and they like Look down it's like the coolest shit in the world, bro.

Nah, you know what I mean?

Like, because like they see a hot girl and they're like, they want her, but then they see me or you or fucking beast.

They're like, okay, I'm not fucking with that guy's bitch.

You You know what I mean?

Like, it's cool, it's very just um status-like, you know what I mean?

What do you want in life, right?

Yeah, if I see a guy with a hot girl, sometimes I'm just like, Maybe he's funny, or maybe he's fucking rich or something, you know?

Yeah, but that's just

as enough, yeah, to be honest.

Being jacked and rich is the best, though.

And we're already funny, we have good personalities, so you're funny.

Thank you.

I think you're funny too, Michael.

Thanks, even though you thought I was trying to get in your pants earlier, but I'm straight.

Oh, man, that was supposed to be off-camera.

no it's all good i used to get that people used to call me gay on everything every every uh did you see my tick tocks and stuff back in the day no what happened canceled

i was literally like what happened my tick tock got banned

kind of what you were saying i think it's because i push peptides and shit bro i swear bro i don't know a lot of people mass report me was it that site that you were pushing no maybe but yeah like yeah yeah bro if you feel like any of the medications that we spoke about today may benefit you you, such as BPC 157, GH acretagogues such as tessamarellin, IGF-1, oxandrolin troche, semiclutide, then you can obtain these from Transcend HRT, and the link for that will be in the bio.

If you feel like you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone, such as depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, as well as lack of sex drive, then you can get this checked out as well by getting your blood work done at Transcend, and they will provide you expert medical analysis.

Transcend HRT has worked with many professional bodybuilders and pro athletes, such as Thor Bjornsson, Phil Heath, and Jeremy Bundia.

And if you feel like this podcast has any relevancy to you, I do believe that this clinic will provide of great benefit to you as well.

Yo, yo, how do I look?

Oh, dope, yo.

I know they're medium, my bad, but

they fit good?

Yeah, they fit good.

Yeah, good.

It's okay.

It'll give me gold.

Those are your vibe, bro.

Sorry, guys.

I got a little bit heated earlier.

Oh, I didn't.

I got a a little.

It's okay.

We can agree to disagree.

I got a little heated with Trent.

Trend gets me going, dude.

You're on it, huh?

It's because you're on it.

Yeah, exactly.

It's because I'm on it.

Fucking.

Yeah, but if anyone is curious and wants to listen to more of what I was discussing about

what some top bodybuilders, like decisions they make with gear, whether or not they want to take it or remove it, you guys should go look up Jon Jewett's.

That guy's the goat, bro.

Oh, so you yeah j3u yeah yeah i've never done it and stuff but uh that guy's the goat i've watched all his videos bro i'm an og bro before uh right yeah mark robliner remember yeah how we met him and you had you had him on recently yeah awesome bro how'd that go it was good that guy's the best bro yeah but like bro i've been an og bro and like yeah

pre

before my prep i prepped someone And but I had my coach like, you know, overshadow it and stuff and help me do it.

He helped me all.

I paid him extra like it was great um but like i've learned so much from that dude's youtube videos just in general bro just his youtube videos not even the j33 uh j3 you shit he runs like a class right yeah and he like teaches you how to become a coach has a class has his own little podcast and yeah yeah yeah i know that i watch him and he you know what like you know what his place was at this last olympia was 11th he got 11th really he got like 11th and that's good open in olympia that's good he's old too pretty fucking sick yeah yeah i think he's like 37 maybe yeah he's oh i thought he was a little older.

I thought he was a little older.

That's still on the older side.

Nah, that's the peak kind of, no?

35 is like the peak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's all the, yeah, like Jay Cutler, Phil, all those guys were like 35 and shit when they were

on their way.

It's awesome, bro.

Yeah.

That guy's crazy.

And he's fucking smart as shit.

I think his kid, right?

He has his kid on a lot of the time or something.

Does he have a kid?

Or maybe someone's...

I don't think so.

Doesn't he talk to a kid with a mohawk all the time or something like that?

I don't know.

I thought that was his kid or maybe not.

The kid with the mohawk?

I don't know.

Are you talking about?

It looks the same.

Am I thinking of what's his face?

Dave Tate and Elite FTS.

He's got his like co-host.

These are glasses.

He's got like a mohawk.

These glasses?

I might be thinking of what's his face.

Who's the other bald coach guy?

Doctor or something?

There's a lot of bald coach guys, bro.

Doctor, whatever.

You know, Dr.

Dr.

Mike?

Yes.

He has a kid with a mohawk.

Dr.

Mike and Jared.

Yeah, that's,

but I'm confusing.

But I know, I know, obviously, J3U and Mike and Jared are awesome, too.

Yeah, those guys are homies.

Those are the homies.

Bro, that guy's

Dr.

Mike, some of his fucking

just like TikToks, like his Hope Core.

Have you ever seen those?

They're like, put some random shit behind.

He's just a funny guy.

He talks about other shit than just bodybuilding.

Yeah, he's got his own philosophy.

Yeah, I'll see.

I'm like, yo, this guy's fucking hilarious.

He's definitely been through some shit or like did drugs one way or another.

Like his mind.

Oh, he's not alive.

His mind is opened up.

You know what I mean?

He's woke.

We had him in the good way, woke in a good way.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, he's hard to say that.

He's like, awakened.

Like, his brain is opened.

Like, that's how I feel.

Like, yeah, it's not you said, like, we had a podcast together, him, me, and Jared Feather.

And they were talking about the like shrooms and shit they were taking and all these things on the podcast, too.

So we were like discussing.

You ever microdose

shrooms before a workout?

Um,

my boy Anthony Postello.

I have been, I have been on, I have been on psilocybin before, yeah, on drink workouts, but they're not just LSD or

I've done it for psilocybin anyway

just a little bit of shrooms everything's better I swear a little bit fun kind of like weed you know how you smoke weed everything's a little funnier sex is better food tastes better you know what I mean like of course that same thing kind of with microdosing unless you're going down the wrong hole but if you're if you

no fun intended

that's what I thought you were going with that

but yeah I like it that's kind of like why I like steroids bro I just like I don't like drugs but I like stuff that you know, make does something, bro, you know, different.

I like being different.

I know it sounds corny, but that's kind of why I got into steroids, bro.

Not got into it, but like, it was sick.

No one was doing it.

Everyone was like, because I got into juice years ago, bro.

I've been juicing for almost 10 years.

Like on and off, you know what I mean?

Yeah, like this whole year I wasn't on juice up until September.

TRT, you know, 100 megs.

don't when i'm not on shit or not really like focused up bro i'll miss a pin i won't pin for like three weeks it's terrible bro so like like some weeks I'll be like on 50 milligrams.

You know what I mean?

But yeah, bro, it's just cool.

I don't know.

It was cool to me.

That's why I liked it.

And then my boy who got me into it, he was cool to me too.

So it was like,

wanted to be cool, I guess.

I'm pretty cool now.

So here we are, bro, on a fucking podcast that I always wanted to be on.

So wait, when did your

like transformation journey start?

Because you looked pretty crazy before.

Yeah, but how much did you wake again?

So when i was 19 um i got on a scale and i was like 248 pounds bro i was almost 2 how tall are you five eight five nine i was probably five eight back then now i'm five nine maybe

um but uh yeah like

maybe like the first year you know how it is you're not really jacked or whatever you start getting veins here and there and then like year two i'm like fuck it my boy was like what's that oh the first year or two of what working out i didn't do gear okay nothing yeah you know you do like you know you're getting into shape

You were 248 pounds and then you started working out for two years.

Yes.

Gotcha.

And then turn whatever, 20, 21, that age started juicing, bro.

Changed my entire life.

Like no other, bro.

How?

Just everything, bro.

Everything got better.

Everything got heightened.

More respect for me.

More girls, cooler people.

Just like your first impression.

You know what I mean, bro?

I go into a fucking job interview thinking I'm the fucking boss, bro.

Like, it's just like

everything about it being in shape to me.

You know, I know it's not the most important thing in life to a lot of people, but from me, and you'll see a lot of people do this, bro.

Everything stems from my fitness, bro.

What was the first cycle you took?

I did just Anivar.

What?

Yeah.

Fucking idiot, bro.

Just like you.

Yeah, you're a fucking idiot.

Just like you.

Just

on a forums, whatever.

Got Anivar, whatever.

Yeah, did that.

And then my first real cycle, I just did test for the longest time.

Same thing too.

Like, I did test for a long ass time.

What happened after Anivar?

Like, what did you feel?

Like, what did you acne?

Uh,

pumps, good pumps, but yeah, definitely fucked my levels up or whatever.

Then you remember how you felt mentally when you were on it and then when you're off so long ago, bro.

All I remember is I was delivering pizzas at like 20 or 21, like uh, you know, during the summer of college and shit.

And uh, I remember like being in a certain part of the pizzeria and just seeing like spider web veins.

And I was like, What the fuck?

Like, this is holy shit.

Like, dude, I I got in a bottle dropper, no dosing on it, no nothing, bro.

Like, I was, dude, just like everyone else, you know, how much did you weigh?

How much did you weigh those first two years you were working out?

Like, when did you drop it?

So I probably lost 50 pounds within like a year.

Okay.

So I was working out.

Guinea fat.

Yeah.

So 248, you lost 50 pounds naturally.

Yes.

And then roughly getting into better shape.

And then, yeah, bro, it was taking too long, bro.

It's taking too long.

And then, and then just for me to use straight up.

So then you popped the anivar.

Yeah.

Well, my boy was like, Yo, you think you're ready?

Whatever.

And I'm like, I don't know, bro, scared of needles, whatever.

And he's like, All right, just take this.

Then took the anivar, whatever.

I know that's the boy.

Well, that's, but that's what it used to be.

That's what it used to be.

Before there was shit like this, before there was, you know, J3 and people talking about steroids and more plate toy, people thought you do anivar first, then you start pinning.

Isn't that what that's what you did?

We weren't the smartest.

Well, I was fucking dumb.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I was a fucking moron.

I still am stupid.

Way smarter than i was but yeah and then i didn't do juice for like six months to a year after that and then i don't know i think my boy was like all right do you want to what were you like did you feel depressed or anything do you feel like your levels were low did you feel nah bro because you said you it definitely up your

well i'm saying you know how it is you take anivar or another without test your shit's a shopping

you don't remember feeling anything in those times in those times i was partying as a kid you know what i mean going on and off like i would do six months don't party don't do anything don't don't talk to anyone, try to get fucking jacked.

You know what I mean?

When I first did juice, I wouldn't drink on it, wouldn't do like fuck around, wouldn't ever do any of that stuff.

I mean, honestly, bro, all those lifestyle factors, plus you being super overweight, and then maybe you being in a calorie deficit, you probably

had like shit tests better.

Oh, yeah, probably both.

When I was unhealthy, I probably had shit tests, and then after the end, I probably had fucking fucked up tests the whole time.

Yeah, and uh, yeah, I just started doing tests for a while.

What those

I would always do 300 to 600, never did any more.

I did 751 cycle and lost fucking hair, bro.

And never again, bro.

Never again, bro.

Never again.

Another big reason why a lot of people aren't going to run grams of tests.

Yeah, bro.

It's truth, you know?

Like, yeah, bro.

I always used to always clown people and think, like, oh, I'll never go bald.

I'll never be a fucking idiot like that.

I'm not bald now, but just my hair is a little thinner.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'll get a hair transplant eventually, but like, it's just, yeah, like.

So your first one was like 300 then.

I always stayed around 300.

I read a study that said, um,

yeah, yeah, I know what study you're talking about.

Yeah.

It's like from 600 to 900 is pointless.

It's like you shouldn't eat, it's like you're gonna get the same gains.

Is that what you're thinking?

I was thinking of I was thinking of the study that had 600 as the highest dose, stating that even Tiger the 600 still improves.

I saw some random shit.

This guy, Cornelius Parkin.

Have you ever heard of him?

He was an OG fitness guy, bro.

He charges like five grand a month.

Like, he doesn't fuck around like Greg prices.

Yeah.

And he's the smartest guy, PhD, like crazy shit.

And he's posted a study.

I still follow to him this day.

He posts such an educational shit.

He posted a study that like 30 guys or 50 guys, whatever did 600, and then 30 guys, whatever did 900.

Or, and then 30 guys or whatever did a thousand plus.

And there wasn't that much of a difference from 600 to 900.

But when you go over a gram is when you see craziness.

So yeah.

I'll find it or something for you for sure.

I swear.

I'm not lying.

All right.

Check out that.

Yeah, no, I swear.

And then he swears by it too.

He's like, don't go over 600 unless you're going to go over at a thousand.

You never heard that?

No.

Really?

Yeah, I've heard of people saying that before.

So I've never, I never go over 600 anymore.

Now I don't even go over 300.

I only do, I only do low shit now, bro.

Only low shit.

300 tests, 300 primo.

Like I did 200 tests, 150 primo for like the last three months.

I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of people saying like they titrate up and then when they get when they like take a total amount of gear above two grams or they take a total okay, I've heard this too for example like like Ziegler monsters said like when he titrated up like for example half test half master half primo whatever the other half was and he had a total of like 1.2 grams he made great gains but then when he went up to 2.4 grams he didn't see any change in the amount of progress he was right so he's like where the fuck am I even going up to 2.4 fucking wasting money yeah literally and then the another thing is too is like how many years have you been working out for?

10 years?

More?

Seven?

17 years.

Oh, what?

Yeah.

Holy shit.

How old are you?

Wait, you're not supposed to say?

Okay, never mind.

I've got this little joke because

the internet has my age wrong.

Oh, okay.

All right.

That's fine.

We can talk about it.

Wow.

That's fucking awesome, bro.

I'm only 10 years in, but what I've realized too, my boy, who's like, same thing with you, 18 years in, bro.

You don't need as much.

You look 10 times better with a little amount because you have the muscle maturity.

And like, you change so much more now too.

Like when I'm off, I don't know if kind of like I was saying before, when I'm off, I don't look the best, bro.

But when I'm on, I'm fucking looking like crazy.

So like, I don't know

if that's how you feel.

Yeah.

But I think that's like for everybody when they jump off.

Yeah, you're flatter.

You're not as good.

You're not as like, yes.

So

I just do now.

Very little amount and it goes the longest fucking way, bro.

Get my bloods done here and there.

I've never really had anything crazy with my bloods done.

I've had like, you know, HDL, LDL is a little fucked, but other than that, kidneys, liver, everything good.

One time I got my bloods done when I had bronchitis and my liver was fucked.

And I'm like, oh shit, like this is happening.

Like this is, this is like the day I thought would never come.

And then, yeah, we just did my bloods like two, three weeks later.

And I told my doctor, I'm like, yeah, I had bronchitis.

Like I was all fucked up during that.

And he said it could have been that or something.

But that's the only scare I've ever had.

Do you ever have any scares or anything like that?

um I had some uh liver scares back when I what is that lipids right no liver yeah boobs is in uh

was lipids is kidneys lipids is they're fat is yeah yeah but isn't it the fat in your or some shit what markers come up when you do liver and when your liver's fucked up that's liver enzymes oh okay oh enzymes okay I'm definitely like when you're when you're thinking about lipids you're looking at anything related to cardiovascular health like HDL LDL okay

oh yeah yeah LDL okay yeah I was just yeah yeah

When you do your blood work, though, um, you should definitely look out for uh, LP Little A and uh Apo B.

What is that?

Um, those are, I've definitely got that done, those are like more genetic-related markers that are like pretty good,

pretty good at determining, like, what state your cardiovascular health may be in.

So, like, if you have like

mine right when I, when I'm moving, because if your LPA is like pretty bad and it's like really above range and shit, then you should work even harder to get your LDL below range, below, yeah, like even harder to get your your LDL within range.

I know that, uh, yeah, I sent it to, yeah, you know, Tanner.

I sent it to Tanner.

Oh, yeah, Tanner says hello.

He actually said, uh, make sure, yeah,

tell uh, sent him to him.

I sent it to my coach, and everything was decent, yeah.

And then I sent it to my doctor or whatever.

We have a doctor on, uh, I have like a doctor that, like, we, uh, because I don't have fucking insurance.

Do you?

Insurance for insurance, like health insurance.

I don't fucking have health insurance.

I need to get that shit.

It's fucking expensive, though.

It's expensive, bro.

Yeah, bro.

Expensive.

I feel like I pay like i pay like 600 700 bucks for a fucking blue shoe that's what i get quoted i get quoted five six hundred dollars i'm like

fuck bro there's a nicer car i'm like oh fuck it's crazy fucking unreal yeah but the guy got shot or whatever maybe it'll fucking the things will go lower the united healthcare right or whatever

that's so fun i don't look enough that's so fucked um yeah i mean bro bodybuilding is an expensive sport though that's what i'm just trying to that's just the only point i'm trying to prove yeah it's like if you want to do this like and you care about your, if you care about your health, some people don't care if they die or not.

So, I mean, it's your choice.

I've heard of people saying, yeah, I want to be like Rich Behind.

I'm like, what, dude?

You don't want to, you want to, like,

it's all about health maxing.

It's all about living the longest, having like,

yeah, but some people aren't.

Some people just aren't happy.

Yeah.

Some people aren't.

They literally don't give a fuck.

Some people have the mentality of literally like, I'm going to be the best.

Yes, bro.

And I'm going to fucking die.

Yes, bro.

And that's.

That's it.

That was my mentality when I was a kid, honestly.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, but that you grew out of that.

You yeah, because I took some shrooms and shit.

I grew up, right?

Well, no, too, and you probably realized, too, like, what the fuck, bro?

I gotta maybe take a step back.

Maybe I don't want to fucking be Mr.

Olympia or die.

You know what I mean?

That's a little excessive, you know, like, and to have that attitude for the whole, your whole life, that's yeah, like I said, bro.

There's a lot of weird people in this sport.

Nothing wrong with it.

I'm weird too.

Both of us are fucking weird.

There's a lot of weird people in the world, dude.

But so you literally just step outside for a second.

Just step outside, especially here, bro.

A second, man.

Creatures here, bro.

Sometimes I'll look on social media and see these comments.

I'll be like, dude, why are there so many weird comments?

I swear that shit's fake, bro.

I swear some of it's fake.

It's not, bro.

You fucking step it.

I swear, bro.

Literally travel to any other state.

Just step out the airport and you'll see the weirdest fucking people, bro.

People, stupid and weird slash people just make you realize how normal you really, like, we are, you know?

Some people do.

We're fucking weird, man.

I know, but.

Yeah, there's different types of weird and shit.

Yeah.

Different cultures, different upbringings, different different levels of exposure, a lot lower levels of exposure.

I mean, way lower levels.

What do you mean, exactly, exposure?

Like, some people just haven't seen anything, bro.

Some people have only seen the span of like a fucking what?

I've never been out of the state.

300-mile radius or something.

Yeah, people don't leave their hometown, bro.

They marry their high school girlfriend, work in a fucking

biggest thing.

Where are you from originally?

Um, I

Texas, Arkansas.

Okay, so moving out of there, right, was probably just like huge for you.

It was great, yeah, bro.

Best decision I ever made in my life was moving out of my hometown, bro.

Because I lived like an hour and a half from New York City, yeah, and then I moved kind of closer to New York City, like out of my hometown.

And just like, it's the best thing anyone could ever fucking do, bro.

We're blessed, bro.

We're hella blessed, dude.

Yeah, there's people that literally like they're in a hell hole, and all they see is like death around their families.

Yeah,

and I was very well off too to be comfortable enough to like, you know what I mean?

Not everyone, you know, people, a lot of people have to, like, fucking work and grind and like, you know, work for their family and stuff.

Like, I was very well off.

Like, I didn't have to do any of that shit for my family.

You know what I mean?

I wasn't.

My parents were like, yo, just go be a fucking kid.

You know what I mean?

So, like, everyone has it a little different, but like, still,

moving out of your hometown is like, was my fucking

that was my like jump off at least.

Yeah, gotcha.

But so let's talk about gear again.

Okay,

with uh, uh,

not your though, um, but with uh test, you jumped on the test 300, 600, blah, blah, blah.

So

you keep telling me that every time you jump back on just TRT, you kind of feel like ass.

Is that just because of the fluctuations of you like jumping on gear?

And then, is that what you're saying?

For sure.

Okay.

Just, you know, how it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, you don't look as good.

You don't feel as good.

Your pumps aren't as good.

I don't even fucking sweat half the time in my workouts.

Like when I'm natural, like, just sucks, bro.

That's why I will willingly say that's why I've been doing this shit for so long.

And I will do it for a lot longer, bro, because once you go over that fucking,

it's very hard to go back, bro.

I have one friend, one friend that I've ever heard of do one cycle undone.

And his acne was the worst acne I've ever seen.

So I don't know about you, but all my boys juice.

I juiced before all my boys and I told them, yo, don't do this shit.

Don't do it.

This happens.

This happens.

This happened.

They were like, we still want to do it, bro.

We see what you got going on.

We see this.

We see this boy doing this.

And then,

yeah, bro, it's just like, it's good, but it's bad.

You know, just like anything else.

Just like anything else.

Yeah.

But wait, what was I just saying before, though, about my boys?

One of them did a cycling quit.

Oh, yeah.

So that's what I'm saying, bro.

This shit is a lifelong thing.

No one ever just does one cycle.

Yeah.

Like, have you ever heard of anyone doing one cycle and done?

When my boy did that, I was like, yo, I never thought anyone would ever have told me that.

Yeah.

But he's also another person that doesn't really give a fuck about it.

You know what I mean?

He gets chicks.

He's in good look.

He's in good shape.

He's good looking.

You know what I mean?

I mean, I've seen some people that'll run like maybe two cycles and finish.

Yeah.

Not do it again.

Or, and then maybe like freaking like 10 years later or like 15 years later, they decide to jump right in.

You know, Paul Barnett?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

That guy used to do bodybuilding in his like 20s.

And then he like took.

Paul, he's like, he's the tall guy.

Super tall, old.

Spring same physique.

Yeah.

That guy.

I'm pretty sure you told me he did gear for a short period of time in his 20s.

And then, you know, he did his job and shit and becoming a freaking CEO and whatever.

And then gained like a fuck ton of weight or something in his 40s, some crazy amount of weight.

And then now he's like a freaking IFBB pro again.

So that's, I feel like a good example of someone who like.

Oh, I don't think I'm thinking of the same guy then.

Maybe not.

I don't know.

He's like a golden era guy, right?

No.

Oh, he's

alive.

No, no, I see.

Well, the golden era.

That's all I can do.

Paul Barton.

Huh.

Look at Obligate.

Yeah, I definitely know.

I've heard that.

He's a dope ass guy.

Yeah, I've heard.

I definitely know if I saw him.

Yeah, there's a lot of people I think that have like, they'll dabble in it and then they'll jump off, but sometimes they might even come back again later.

Yeah.

Or

they'll like jump on TRT, TRT Plus.

Yeah, I know, right?

But it's fucking like, I don't, I hate to like name drop and stuff, but like, you see how Alex Eubank got on steroids and stuff, and he's calling TRT 250 or 300 or something.

People don't even know who the fuck TRT is, bro.

Is he calling it?

Yes, bro.

I'm going to hop on a TRT cycle.

There, that doesn't.

There are, there are, there are some people

that prescribe TRT.

My one client has to do 400 for TRT.

Yes, bro.

What?

I don't know why.

I don't know why, bro.

He does 400 and

dude, he's an older guy, so I don't know.

And he's

so, but I was so surprised, bro.

I do 100.

I did

200,

200 tests and 150 primo, got my bloods done like two, three months ago, and my test levels were 1400.

So off of that would make sense.

You think?

I have the same.

Yeah, okay.

So maybe we're just going to respond to it.

It's like 1,400.

If I run 150, it'll be more within range.

Okay.

All right.

I'm normally doing like 150.

Well, if fucking Eubanks is doing 250, 300, his shit's got to be 2,000.

That's low-key.

That's not fucking TRT.

That's a small section.

Yeah.

Hey, I'm not hating.

Do whatever the fuck you want, but I mean, just be right about what you're saying.

That's not, you're you're giving the wrong misconception to people.

Like, that's not what fucking TRT is.

Yeah.

I'll be the first one to fucking tell you that I do more than TRT, but I don't call it TRT.

I'd say if like 250, like if 250 was getting you like at the, like at a thousand, yeah, that's your TRT.

Right.

Which happens to like a very small percentage of people.

Yeah.

I mean, it goes well for us.

Alex definitely doesn't look like the kind of person where he needs 250 to 30.

Yeah.

No.

He doesn't even have fucking fucked up TRT.

It's the test levels, probably.

You're doing a cycle.

Nothing wrong with it.

Just call it what it is.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I'll be the first one to tell you what I'm on and what I did do and whatever.

Like I was saying, like my fucking competition cycle, dude, I did fucking 20 drugs under the sun.

You know what I mean?

Holy, I don't even fucking know.

How much time do you have?

Yeah, like kind of like I was saying, like the first, whatever,

I'll just say like my competition, I did test, var, Winnie, Proviron,

Trend, but not all at once, but you know what I'm saying?

Like throughout it.

But yeah.

Yeah.

How many ones?

Anything?

Mass.

Did I say mask?

That's six.

AIs and stuff.

Throw that in there.

Yeah, bro.

Almost like 10 drugs.

You have to do it.

You don't have to, obviously, but that's what everyone's fucking doing.

You know what I mean?

For the preps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you're like straight up.

I've never done anything like that.

I knew nothing, bro.

I used to do, you know.

Preps for fucking go to ultra or go to EDC.

You know what I mean?

But I've only done, I would only do like, you know, test mass, test this, test that.

I've only done like two compounds.

And then like, what?

Oh, Clenn?

I forgot Clenn.

Yeah, bro, there's so much fucking shit you have to do.

What doses?

Yeah.

Same shit.

Yeah.

Three to 500, 30 to 500, everything, bro.

Everything.

I always

research shit.

And then, like, I remember I read something.

Don't do EQ unless you're going to do 600 or more.

I'm like, what?

I'm like, let me just see what happens.

What kind of research are you doing, bro?

Bro, come on.

The forum's like,

bro.

So, like, yeah, I'm like, all right, let me fucking see what happens to 300.

And yeah, I did EQ for the first time.

And bro, still to this day, I haven't done it.

I have never done it again.

Your veins.

Bro.

Yeah, that's like a EQ is like a

increases it.

But someone told me, I remember when I got introduced to EQ, it's like kind of like injectable Anivar.

Like gives you like crazy pumps.

Your veins are crazy.

Cause that's how I felt.

Look out for your hematocrit and shit.

Yeah.

That's kind of how I felt on Anivar.

The first time I took Anivar, driving home, my, I'm still like my veins, just everything.

I remember that like it was yesterday, bro.

The first time I did that Anabar cycle, like, but it could be all in your head, too, bro.

It's not in your head.

No, you're getting the veins.

Yeah.

100%.

Because, you know, as a kid, it's so much different now.

Like,

but I feel like all gear gives you the veins too.

Like, do you remember?

Like, I used to look up to Ziz, bro.

And, like, now I'm like fucking 10 times bigger than that guy ever was.

And I'm like, fuck, when did that even happen?

Like, when did I get bigger than Ziz?

Like, it's just crazy.

Yeah, everybody just starts looking smaller to you instead.

Yeah, right.

It's like, what the fuck?

Like, obviously, I don't fucking look.

That guy looked like insane.

He's still like my goat.

But like, yeah, like, it's just crazy to think, like, you look up to these people and then you surpass them.

And it's like, whoa.

I'm fucking actually doing what I'm like.

That's what happens.

Bro, that's why it's a gateway.

DRT is a gateway, Charlie.

Because then you just fucking, you want more, bro.

You want more.

You get bigger and it's not enough.

It doesn't matter.

And you try.

You fucking get a great physique and you get girls and you're like, I don't fucking care about the girls.

Yep.

I care about the dudes.

Yep.

i want dudes in my dms

no

it's what it is it's what it is but it's not what i want but yeah bro that's what you say it's so funny uh i'll talk to girls and stuff and they see my social media and they're like oh by a bunch of bitches hit you up right and i'm like no dude it's 14 year olds like yo man what's your cycle yo

should i hop on to dallophil should i do this like come on bro like you know it's not uh it's like one out of ten women yeah yeah i know it fucking it feels it's dope it's pretty cool and then when you're in bodybuilding, I feel like at the point, it's literally just straight prestige, bro.

Test runs that shit.

You take some tests, you want to rule the world, man.

That's how it is.

You take some fucking tests, you want to be the fucking best.

You want to be the best, you do.

That's just how it is.

It's uh, like imagine being a bodybuilder, bro.

You just want to get better and better.

Yeah, you just always want, yeah, like you said, you want more, bro.

And that's kind of how I think about like how you look or how pretty you look.

Nah, bro, it's just like what you can achieve.

Yeah, exactly.

What you can, oh, I did this with this.

Let's see what I can do with this.

And yeah, bro, It's great.

But, like you said, it's never satisfied.

No end.

Yeah.

What would it be the end?

Fucking Mr.

Olympia?

No, exactly.

No, I'll take a million dollars.

A million is good.

That's where I could tap it, probably.

Nah, but I still probably wouldn't even want to.

Bro, a million dollars doesn't even matter.

Nowadays, yeah,

I'd fucking spend that in a week, bro.

Nowadays, here, I walk out of my house, I spend $100.

I don't know how.

I don't know how, but like $100, $200 are just gone every time I step into fucking LA.

But

it goes, bro.

So it's fun, it's like playing RuneScape, except that you do too much and you might actually die.

Yeah, there are definitely high risk, high results, high risk, high reward is what I've always kind of been like, bro.

Yeah, I've always wanted to.

That's what it is.

It's a masculine trait.

Yeah.

Well, it's, yeah, it's men.

Yes.

Yes.

The more, yeah, it's like

a propensity to have a high, to do higher risk actions is correlated to more masculinity.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it just makes makes more sense, though, kind of what you're saying.

As a man, that's like kind of your fucking duty in life.

Yeah.

I mean, it's cool.

I'm cool with that.

I don't know about you.

Well, I mean, I fucking enjoy it.

Well, yeah, exactly.

I am.

I'm like, I am extremely, extremely fucking happy that I'm not a girl.

I can tell you that.

No, yeah, guys definitely have it easier.

Not

I think they do.

In a sense.

Low-key.

Different ways.

Yeah.

Different ways.

But yeah, but you're not.

Even just having like a fucking cycle, bro.

Even just having like a fucking menstrual cycle is tough, yeah.

That sucks, dude.

That's miserable.

Yeah, and you're all like bitchy.

I can hardly deal with women.

I know.

I can't imagine being one.

Yeah, no, I love women, though.

Women are

women are my favorite thing in the world, bro.

I don't know why.

I don't know why, but yeah.

I teach like a dating coaching.

I don't know if you see my stories and shit.

Wait, really?

That's what I do now.

Yeah.

I don't really

talk anymore.

So I do

consulting dating now.

So just from posting and being living the lifestyle that i live people would just always hit me up like yo how are you surrounded by these women how are you surround how are you doing this how are you doing that i'm like why don't i fucking try to make money off this shit so uh yeah i just like kind of do consulting now where uh people come to me they tell me exactly what their problems are and shit and i try to figure it out or give them my opinion on what i would do if i were them

it's like any other coaching kind of you know okay that's cool i have what i my experiences and what i've done in life i apply to them and it fucking works bro you know what i mean just like with bodybuilding coaching coaching, like I do that too.

You used to do that, right?

I think we talked about that.

You don't do any clients anymore, right?

Oh, like bodybuilding, yeah, yeah, like fitness coaching.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Same thing,

you learn, it's a lot, very time-consuming.

Yeah, there's no chance that you're gonna be editing your own content or anything if you have clients to do it.

Mondays and Tuesdays, I have all my guys check in with me, and I'm like drilled on my phone.

Mondays and Tuesdays, yeah, but it's good though.

I wouldn't change it for a thing, bro.

So, um, hypothetically, just hypothetically, say that on the go, stand asking for a friend okay i want to get a girlfriend what are the first things i need to do as a man get in shape have a friend group and just be yourself bro no matter what that's what i tell all my clients too what if i'm a fucking weirdo a girl will still like you dude a girl will like you no matter what bro a lot of people are emphasizing and focus on getting money or being the man that a girl wants or whatever and that's cool i do that every day we do that every single day but um just being yourself will get you the girl that you know i mean if you're not a fucking complete tool working at Chick-fil-A who looks like fucking 300 pounds shit, bro, nothing wrong with any of that stuff.

That's the life you want to live, whatever.

But you're not going to probably get women like that.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dion, and dude, Dion, my boy and I were just talking about ayahuasca and DMT on the podcast.

You're going to like Peru with the shaman and stuff and everything.

Yeah, where are you going, dude?

San Diego.

That works with

Wise Tribe.

And I got introduced to them last week.

And I just decided, you know, like, I'm in the best place I think I've ever been mentally.

And just like,

in general, health, everything.

Damn, that's crazy.

Everything's just aligned properly.

So that shit's going to be awesome.

I'm nervous.

That's fucking sick.

Super stoked at the same time.

So I just wanted to give you a call before I do tonight.

Bro, that's fucking epic.

Yeah.

Make sure you got a legit shaman, dude.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah, don't get one of those weirdos man there's some fucking weird weird shaman out there that'll fuck you up what do you mean don't trip me out right now

don't be a failure either way i've done plenty of psychedelics i'll be all right yeah if it's not if it's not what i'm looking for that shit will be fun bro there's always another time in fucking costa rico or i get invited to another one in costa rica in 30 days so yeah who knows maybe i'll do that too

um

you know yeah you know what you're doing bro if if there was anyone i was talking to that would call me and tell me this, you're literally the person that would, I would say, knows what he's doing.

You got this.

You just let it take you.

Yep, surrender is key.

Yeah.

And make sure you got a legit shaman so you don't go crazy.

They told me that

they're going to facilitate it, but for the most part, they're going to administer it.

Okay.

And then whatsoever looks like the participants, everyone is supposed to go into their own personal journey.

So there's going to be not a lot of interference whatsoever from that.

Interesting.

All right.

So

we'll see.

I'll let you know how it goes.

All right.

But give me a call out to your podcast.

All right.

Love you, bro.

Let me know your findings.

Peace, dude.

Damn, that's epic.

He's going to go nuts.

I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding.

Not going to win.

Love you, bro.

He'll be okay.

I'm sure it's going to be fucking cool.

Dude, Iowa's really cool, bro.

I've watched mad documentaries on that shit.

And that shit's fucking dope, bro.

It's just like, there's just two sides, though.

Like, you can have an amazing, good, wholesome spiritual experience, find so much.

And, or, bro, there's like some fucked up shit out there.

That's why I'm scared of that shit, bro.

Fucked up shit.

Um, Matt Krishner, you know him?

You ever heard of him?

Matt Krishner.

He's like one of the very first I3 Pros magazine guy.

Maybe.

I met him a while ago.

I went to Artemis Dogen's camp.

You ever heard of, you know, yeah, I know Artemis Dogan.

You know how he used to run those camps?

Yo, that guy, bro, that guy was like my GOAT.

What about his camps?

So I went to one.

So are you familiar with what they would do?

He paid him like a thousand bucks or whatever.

Whatever the price was, you fly out to Key West, you all hop in vans and you go to Key West with him and like all his athletes.

It was the sickest thing.

Before I was an influencer, before anything, bro, I went and did that.

And

yeah, bro, Matt Krishner, I met there, IFBB Pro, everything.

He was fucked up on pills, OC, like dying in his deathbed, did ayahuasca.

And now he's fucking him.

Like, you know, that a lot of people do that, right?

That's what they do, right?

They're like, you kind of like what you were saying, like, a lot of people will be in a really bad place and stuff, and they'll do that shit and try to like take it out of them.

And yeah, that helps a lot of people, bro.

Wow.

And your boys have been like, yo, he's like, I'm in the best place of my life.

That's just going to double down, bro, and like elevate him to fucking like awesomeness, bro.

That's going to fuck him.

I agree.

Yeah, bro.

That's sick, bro.

That's dope as fuck.

Yeah, I'm excited for him.

I'm really, I've always wanted to have an experience at some point, but I just haven't.

You got me thinking about DMT now, bro.

Dude,

I have the same thing with DMT.

I was like, I'm not going to

let you do it.

I'm going to let it find me.

Fucking found me, bro.

We went to

me and Dion and a bunch of

friends went to Josh Retreat.

In the middle of the night, we like brought the DMT to like this mountain, went on the mountain peak, and all like laid in a circle.

And then I laid down to rest and took the first three hits.

Oh, you really kidding me?

He shot me in the fucking space, dude.

Yeah.

I shit you not.

I saw literally like,

what was it?

I don't know what a shooting star.

I don't remember what the figure is called.

I don't think it's the Buddha, but I think it's...

I don't think it's the Buddha.

I can't remember what it's called, but I saw like a Buddha with like a thousand arms like this.

Oh, I think I know what you're talking about.

I know what you're saying.

And then I saw...

I think that is a Buddha.

And then it changed

to literally there was this female figure.

And I was like, this is literally god like this is like mother mother nature this is god and you're not moving it's all just mind right it's all just like you're seeing i'm not moving physically but i don't feel like that

i feel like you're like descending or ascending right i feel like i'm shooting into space bro damn and i just i think i was like i thought i was seeing like the gates of heaven and there was this woman that was like putting me to rest and telling me that everything was going to be okay.

And I felt the most like peace I've ever felt in my entire life.

It's pretty crazy.

Yeah.

And then I came out of it.

I didn't notice your tech tattoo and your neck tattoo until

that's fucking dope.

But afterwards, I was just like, God's real, bro.

That's it.

That was your.

I mean, I've always believed in God.

But that was your favorite.

But there were obviously those times in my own life where I'd be questioning everything.

And I'd also be thinking, like, like

the way that people explain like that.

Like the way my mom would say, like, basically explain God as if he's a man of the sky.

And I'd be like, Right,

why does he act like he is so conditional about

love and like certain situations?

And I'm like, I feel like this interpretation of the Bible,

right?

So, I feel like these interpretations are

not necessarily true.

I don't know.

I was just like, there's just so many different interpretations that it's like, what the fuck is true for me?

So, I had to go on my own little like spiritual journey, you know.

That's fucking awesome, dude.

Yeah.

Um,

anyways, dear,

what was the worst cycle that you've ever taken?

What would you say worst?

What would uh

worst experience on gear whatsoever?

Probably like my second or third cycle I ever did.

Um, my back was disgusting, bro.

Like just red spots, just I don't know.

I was allergic to the gear or something.

My back was fucked, bro, for like six months to a year.

What was it?

I don't remember.

Maybe.

Damn, bro.

Yeah.

Gotta write this in your notes or something.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Talk about it on podcasts.

I was such an idiot, bro.

Just like you were saying.

You're like, dude, I was such an idiot back then.

But if I had to guess, it would maybe, I don't know.

It was like something of that realm, maybe, like, because I'm trying to think.

I did test var.

I did var test.

I think my second time I did EQ, but I didn't have any bad experience with that.

I'm trying to think.

All I know is, I don't know if you know this, or I don't even know if this is fucking true, but I read this somewhere too.

All your acne,

well, hair loss, definitely.

Like, say you do a cycle, and then boom, three to four months goes by after your cycle.

That's when that shit kicks in.

It doesn't happen while you're doing it.

You know what I mean?

Or what do you think?

Is that I'm

pretty positive that that's how it works.

For me personally, all the acne comes when fluctuations are happening.

Right.

So if I'm like, What about just hair loss, though?

Have you ever read on hair loss and shit like that?

Because I remember what I'm saying.

I mean,

hair loss is more of, is, is often related to DHT, right?

Right.

So if you have a lot of testosterone and five-alpha-reductase conversion to DHT, then you're going to have a lot of hair loss.

Or if you're taking a DHT derived like masturbate primo or something, you're also going to have a lot of hair loss.

So I mean, the thing that I did that, like, I mean, this is not going to be working for everybody because some people are probably going to fuck up the rest of their lives if they do this.

Like, there's

like 1%.

I think 1% of the violence is.

What are you about to say, right?

I'm on minoxidil and finastero.

Okay.

And, um,

I microneedle my hair like every now and then in my head, but like, I really don't care about it.

It's just like

fuck though, dude.

Thanks, bro.

Appreciate it.

It looks like shit now, though, compared to before, and I think that's the steroids for sure.

Yeah.

Because it's like all fucking dried out and shit.

It's not like my hair used to be silky and shit.

It was still like an afro.

Ever since I was a kid, it was like an afro.

You see those Asian professors that like just don't cut their hair?

It's just like a, they look like a, what are those like furry?

You know what I'm talking about.

Yes, but yeah, I have that fucking hair.

Bug things.

Yeah, I could literally, I used to be able to just grow out like a fucking afro-ish kind of thing.

But it's straight or no?

It's got a little bit of wave.

my mom's got like wavy hair my dad's got straight hair i got like something well asian people have like the best pin straight like beautiful hair east asian at least especially the east asians for sure he's got a career japan or something nice as hair bro i always look at his hair like damn i wish i had yeah so they shouldn't do steroids or maybe it's just me haven't asian people have the best legs though bro

East Asians, not fucking me, bro.

Dude, your legs are awesome too, bro.

Bro, my legs suck.

What, compared to everything else, that's what you need to work on?

Yeah, literally, every coach I'm with is like, yeah, yeah, you need to work on your lats, your legs.

Yeah, my arms.

My lats are good.

My lats are my genetics.

You have really good shape.

Your shape, like your X-frame is good.

Oh, that's what I wanted to talk about, too.

The reason I wanted to talk about the gear, though, is curious what your worst, like, your worst compound you've ever taken or your worst experience, just for people to hear.

Because I'm sure there's going to be some kids out there that, like, already on gear and shit.

And they're like, oh, what should I not do?

Yeah, I would just say, yeah, like.

Don't fucking run high doses, bro.

That's no matter what.

Like, kind of like what I said, bro, right when I went over 600, right when I did 750,

fucking hair started to fall out, whatever.

But I would just say, yeah, bro, slow and steady wins the race, bro.

Because what people don't understand is as well, when you get off, you lose all of it too.

Not all of it, not all of it, but you lose most of it.

So like

you're never gonna, everyone thinks it's like this.

Everyone thinks you're like, oh, I did 50s last week.

I'm gonna do 55s next week and then 60s.

But like what I've realized and what a lot of people should realize with gear and just working out, it's just like anything else, bro.

There's ups and downs to always.

You know?

Everything has fluctuations.

Yeah.

So you look at yourself last year, right before the summer, and you thought you looked better.

You think, like, damn, I want to get back to that and whatever, but it's just like, bro, just got to go with it.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I would say, don't like,

I love this line.

You can use this for women.

You could use this for a job.

Don't run for one.

Walk and get them all.

So like, it's basically saying, like, you know, be modest, walk around, figure out your life.

Don't just run.

Did you say you could say this for women?

Yeah.

Walk and get them all.

No, no, not.

Try.

You know, test it out.

Test which one you like.

You know what I'm saying?

You mean like the don't just go head on

head over heels over and fall in love with the girl.

You know what I mean?

Do a little bit.

Try this.

Do the little stuff.

Don't last trend.

You know what I mean?

You can use that.

So that's what I would say to people.

Walk.

Don't run to one.

Walk and get them all.

Right.

I love that.

I love that one.

I like that line too.

Yeah.

And I think um, one of, I think, uh, a reason that a lot of,

like, a lot of kids or normies or people that don't, like, do hard lifting or anything think that, like, steroids is everything is because they're always comparing the naturals.

Um, but if you're looking at like the pro-bodybuilder industry, everyone's taking the same shit.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

It's all the same protocols.

At that point, when you're all taking the same protocols and trying to figure out what's the best for you, like the next best thing to figure out, because everyone's already taken that shit, it's like, that's why everyone, that's why the bodybuilders, the pro-bodybuilders, the top guys are so focused on their nutrition and their training.

Yeah.

They're sleep.

Cause it's like, those are the, those are the things and variables that you can always get better somehow.

For some reason.

But without genetics, too, that's like another thing to kind of what you were saying, how like people,

people will like kill themselves for this sport and stuff.

A lot of those people don't have the best genetics, bro.

That's something that I realized a very long time.

I started juicing and I started working out and I'm like, dude, I know I'll never be Mr.

Olympia.

You know what I mean?

So like, I think, and this runs down to like just working out in general.

For some reason,

bro, like, Elon Musk has a financial advisor.

LeBron James has a shooting coach.

You know what I mean?

Like, Wayne Gretzky had a fucking, you know, skating coach.

Like, for some reason, everyone thinks they can do it themselves and they know everything about working out in steroids.

Like, why is it different?

You know what I'm saying?

Maybe if you're like fucking genetic god, like Lee Priest or something.

Right.

Like, those people, maybe, but, like, yeah, why does everyone think it's so easy?

Like, it's so, it's the hardest shit in the world, bro.

What's the fucking statistic?

More people have a six-pack abs than a fucking millionaires.

There's more people in the United States with six-pack than, or vice versa.

It's harder to have a six-pack statistically.

It's harder to, there are less people with six-packs than millionaires in the United States.

So how the fuck do you think that you can just snap your fingers and get a six-pack, bro?

It's never going to fucking happen.

So there's no like worst compound that you've ever experienced or used

i would just say probably your least favorite

i'll say this but i don't know if it was the trend but uh from like i swear to you bro from week four to like week two in my prep every single morning i would wake up my eyes were burning bro i don't know why i told that to my coach like on show day like after i won he's like dude if that ever happens again you need to tell me i've never heard of that yeah bro maybe i was having allergic reaction or something or something like that

Reaction to one of the subshades, one of the oils or something.

That, or like, maybe, you know, fucking could have been something on my pillow or like, I don't know.

But, like, yeah, it was super weird.

Something on your pillow.

No, you know what I'm saying.

Like, you're allergic or you rub up against something.

Yeah, like fucking poison IV.

I don't know.

But yeah, that was super weird.

But I would never say, I wouldn't say my worst.

I would say my best.

I did like a fake prep

before, and I swear, I don't know why.

I saw the best gains, like 300, 300 primo.

300 tests, 300 primo.

I didn't do anything else.

That's pretty dope.

What if that's related to your health?

What if you saw the best gains because you were the healthiest?

You think?

I never thought of it like that.

There's a lot of people who say that.

I was not healthy.

There's a lot of people that will say that.

So John Jewett will mention this.

Freaking Fuad's podcast.

I said it right.

This is a fucking dude whoever comments that.

Fucking Lord, Lord Firequad's podcast.

They mentioned like

one of the titles of one of their podcasts actually is literally Good Blood Work Builds Muscle, like in quotes.

So like, imagine like you're unhealthy, you're not getting any sleep, all this shit because you're running all this gear, or imagine that you just decided to take some tests in Primo.

Primo has the least side effects.

You're checking your blood work regularly.

You're being really healthy, getting all your sleep in, getting all your nutrition in.

Digestion's peak on point.

Good relationships, no stress.

Dude, I wasn't.

Bro, you're going to make all the gains.

I wasn't even going to the bathroom

on my prepping shit, bro.

Like, it was hard for me to go to the fucking bathroom on that shit, bro.

I was definitely fucked up for sure, bro.

Probably was really hard.

And I did it for too long, bro.

I did like 24 weeks.

Whenever I've done too much of anything, whether it be stairways and gear or training, especially training.

Whenever I've done too much training, bro, I fucking work backwards.

Yeah.

My progress goes in reverse.

I do three days on, one day off now.

And I just started that and my body feels so fucking good, dude.

It feels so good, bro.

I always used to do seven.

I'll do six days.

Easy.

Seven days, whatever.

Do an active rest day now i don't go to the gym three days three days now i don't go to gym no cardio nothing like i just rest i think that's something i've learned recently too is now that i've been eating more i've been able to train harder yeah and my body has taken a beating bro really it's been taking a beating and i've been fatigued what do you do well what's your day i did a little bit more volume than my coach told me to so that was kind of my fault but i just was eating so many calories after my show i was like bro i gotta put this something oh yeah you know what i mean oh i don't want to get fat i gotta put this something yeah So I was like training my ass off.

And then I fucking got myself like some crazy shoulder and hip impidgement fatigue and shit everywhere.

And just, oh, I saw it.

I really fucked myself up for a little bit.

But, bro, now like, I take like a full rest day.

I'll tell myself, no cardio either.

Yeah.

No cardio.

No abs.

I always want to do something like abs.

Hey, don't you feel so fucked?

I feel so much better.

I feel so much better.

I was realizing like my Friday and Saturday workouts were not good.

Like, you know what I mean?

Because you're fatigued from the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

And I noticed that.

And I'm like, fuck, I should do something about this.

And I've seen that all the time.

So many people preach three days on, one day off, three days on, one day off.

So I've been doing it.

I love it.

That's the same.

Yeah.

I do three days on three, one, two, one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I do five.

That's what I technically do, too.

About the same thing.

I do, yeah.

Thursdays and Sundays are kind of my days off, but sometimes I'll go.

Same.

Yeah.

Thursdays and Sundays, bro.

Yeah.

Those are the most anabolic days.

I don't like going to the Friday.

I don't like gyms Friday here, bro, though.

I feel like no one goes to the gym here, but there's more traffic.

Yeah, I I feel like Fridays are weird in that letter.

I don't know.

Do you not feel like that?

There's more traffic for sure, bro.

Culture is always dead on Fridays, no matter what.

It used to be banging, right?

Oh, okay.

Culture at noon used to be the best.

Bro, on Fridays.

Best.

Especially on Fridays.

In general, I don't know if it was Fridays or, yeah, I kind of stayed away because traffic and shit on Fridays.

Yeah.

But yeah, it used to be really good.

Now I feel like the times are weird there.

Yeah.

What time do you usually go?

I'm not sure at the Brad's though.

No, I love Brad.

No, Brad's cool.

But

I don't really go to Zoo anymore.

I just go to the.

I know I see you there.

I know I see you at Gold's.

I go to Zoo maybe once every like two weeks.

Where's your home base?

Two weeks, maybe at most.

Home base is the Young LA gym.

Young LA.

You like that gym?

Yeah, but

it's mostly

good.

I'm an athlete and it's like fairly private, so there's not many people there.

I know, it's good.

So I can just go there.

Yeah, you can shut your camera up, get the fucking whatever you do.

Yeah.

I've gone there a couple of times.

People brought me.

It's good there.

I've kind of like, I've, I time all my sets, like, I'll put like two minutes for my rests and stuff, and then I'll log all my things in my notes.

So, to be honest, I start realizing that I get like really,

yeah, I like to log things.

It's like the, it's, it's the engineering mindset, though.

That's all it is.

It's being neurotic.

It helps a lot more.

Probably, huh?

Do you think it does a major difference?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fuck.

Logging all my shit, bro.

Like, maybe I should fucking like, bro, I'll literally show you.

Like, I have my whole list of all my

PRs, and I've hit a PR every single week.

Bro, my ISPV Pro, like best friend, he has like what you're gonna, bro, just years of notes, his cycles, his diets, his everything.

Same thing, same thing.

PRs, everything.

I'm like, fuck, bro.

That shit's a bad thing.

Bro, you literally asked me what I ate four years ago, and I can bring up.

Yeah, you're like a psycho, like my boy.

Yeah.

Fucking psycho.

It's awesome.

But that's what you need to do.

Check this shit out, baby.

Yeah, and you could just fucking listen to the PRs.

Yeah, bro.

Scroll it for them.

Today was my PR for legs.

I hit a 1x12 sleeveless leg press 16 plates then one by nine 18 plates you like legs or no huh you like working out legs i do now because i need big ass hamstrings and my hamstrings suck do you split your days up um you only smash hamstrings no i like to do hams and quads in the same dude i didn't do hamstrings forever

fuck was it ct fletcher maybe or someone i did hamstrings i did this with both my arm my biceps and my hamstrings yeah 200 reps of just whatever the fuck you want end of every single workout i did that for like a year straight hamstrings every single day yeah and my hamstring blew up 200 reps just at the end of your workout so like you know 10 sets of 20 or like nothing crazy

at the end of any workout

how many times did you do this i did that for a year straight for how many my hamstrings so and i did the same what do you mean by the end of every workout like how many times go in there for you how many times a week was this five times a week that's crazy yes bro i'm not fucking around.

Did your hamstrings grew up?

Yes, bro.

I'm not fucking around, bro.

Just, I don't know, bro.

The activation or something.

Because, you know, 200 reps is not a lot.

You're not getting a full workout.

It takes you 10 minutes.

It's not at all, bro.

Bro, 200 reps is not a lot.

200 reps?

Are you fucking 10 sets of 20?

RDLs?

I'll do that in fucking five minutes.

10 sets of 20 on hamstrings?

Yeah.

That's a good amount.

So I do.

You're doing that like five days, six days a week.

That's a lot.

Yes, bro.

Ask anybody in the comments.

That's psychosis.

Anybody in the comments.

But yeah, bro.

Five sets of four.

That's crazy.

Yeah, bro.

Good fucking, I don't know what it is.

I read it.

I saw it on CT Fletcher.

It probably doesn't work.

Bro, I did eight sets.

But it helps us.

I did eight sets of hamstring curls today for 10 to 20 reps each.

Yeah.

That's a lot already.

You're telling me that 10 sets of 20, which is more than I did today for a real hamstring workout, is not a lot.

And you did that five to six times a week.

Bro, people would look at me nuts.

Like, why do do you do it?

Because I love uh, put your ass on a wall, yeah, and then you do RDLs like that, and like, bro, you can stretch more, the stretch, everything, and you can feel that shit.

So, like, I don't know, bro, but now I got to work on my quads and shit.

My lower back is so fucked up, so like, it's so hard to squat, but your hamstrings really blew up.

My hamstrings are insane, bro.

Send me some progress pics.

And the cycle that you're

yeah, that you can recover perfectly through the amounts of, yeah, bro.

No, yeah, that's good.

Trend does

but yeah that's how I built my uh lagging okay okay gotcha so maybe try it um you seem pretty like health precautions by the way and shit especially now that you're so like what do you do exactly like do you check your blood work like are there any parameters or any any processes that you so I'll be from me to you

so from me to you I used to get my bloods done when I was really getting into it.

I used to get them done like twice a year.

And then every time my doctor would be like, dude, what the fuck are you doing here like your levels are you have nothing wrong with you so i stopped getting my bloods done for a while um but kind of like i what i said bro i'm dude i'm doing 300 tests in primo you know what i mean like i'm not doing these crazy cycles yeah 300 tests and 300 primo like bro as much as i hate to say this it's nothing it's it's yeah like and for me and you it can make the world of a difference unless it's unless they're like running it for the first time for someone who's running the first cycle i think that's fine yeah yeah for your first cycle that's what people say to me People say you should only do tests for a cycle, and I agree with that.

But I think after six weeks, 16 weeks, you should add in something.

Like, just do because it's going to be underwhelming.

People think you turn into fucking C-bum, bro.

But a lot of people aren't going to react like me and you.

I've had clients not even react almost.

And I'm like, fuck, am I not doing my job?

And no, it just happens, bro.

And then you up it or you change something and it works.

So it's like,

it's tough.

It's really hard to gauge that shit.

I think doing the health phases are really cool, too.

Yes, really effective.

And then, also, people just blow up afterwards sometimes.

The receptors and everything are fucking.

You know, Terrence Fruffin, who's like, yeah, of course, top, top classic Olympian broke him off for like two weeks only or something.

And what?

Just for his like hair transplant.

No, he didn't deflate.

He went down a little bit.

Like, he was at 200, I think.

Then he went down to like 197.

Then afterwards, he jumped back office.

And the same cycle.

He went all the way up in a month to 212.

Yeah, bro.

Bro, from

187 to 212.

He gained 30 pounds.

He like went down like 13 pounds and gained 30.

He gained it all right back.

Gained 30.

That's fucking crazy, huh?

So, like, that's just he doesn't know why, but he was just like, yeah, it was crazy.

He was like laughing about it, how it was, like, awesome.

That guy's the best, too.

He's one of the, yeah, I've talked to him.

Well, it's cool to hear because he's been struggling to gain weight for like the last three years.

That's why he took this Olympia off.

Oh, yeah, he didn't see this year.

Yeah, he's got like 17 pounds to gain to meet the weight gap, and he just hasn't been able to close that gap.

I think Keon's going to do some crazy shit, bro.

Yeah, but he's going to.

They're not in the same division, though.

Yeah, and I know, but I think he's going to go to open.

I think he's going to do some crazy shit, bro.

He should, bro.

He's the shorter guy now.

It's the shorter thing now.

But, oh, no.

No, no, no.

Well, he can't beat Samson, actually.

No, I disagree.

He shouldn't.

He should stay.

I think Keon should just keep.

Samson.

I mean,

Keon's got to just keep getting his fucking Olympias, bro.

He's got his insane noise this year.

Yeah, he did.

I saw every single post of him, bro.

I was like, what the fuck?

It was nuts.

Yeah.

And you know what he did differently?

What?

You fucking.

Come on, what?

He take his trend out?

Yeah.

Shot up.

I'm going to get off and leave.

What did he do?

Are you being serious?

You know how I told you, like, when people take too many compounds or people eat too much, then they get too full.

Now that he was working with

his partner, Mel, right?

She's like, I'm going to...

She's his coach?

Yeah, she's.

His girlfriend is his coach.

That's yeah, she was his

coach for this Olympia.

That's really cool.

Um, so she was getting a bunch of people asking her, asking her if she would be their coach.

Hell yeah, bro.

That's fucking awesome.

Bro, she's like, I'm going to do something that you're going to fucking hate.

She pulled his food and he, she, she made him starve for the ending.

She made him starve instead.

Where normally, you know, for like open bodybuilders, you know, they want to, hey, you want to titrate up a little bit.

You want to like give them some, you know, they still have carbs.

You want to carve up beforehand.

You want to make sure they're full.

Oh, she fucking.

Peek week and Shoday.

He was starved.

I don't know about Showday, but basically

compared to when he was working with Milos, compared to when he was working with his previous coach, basically, instead, he was just fucking, she made him like starve.

And he was hungry.

So she didn't fill him up with carbs, but he's one of those people that, like, me, you know, you're a little bit more watery, but you're also more full.

You're full more easily.

Yeah, there's a happy medium.

There's happy medium.

Same thing as

some guys will probably look great on stage if they take 500 trend.

Maybe they need 500 milligrams of of trend.

Some guys, if they add like 200 milligrams of trend, they'll be too

like they'll be too round but not defined enough, you know?

So you got to change these things for every single client.

That's what I was going to say, too.

Like, I don't know how you've ever felt like this, but like, yeah, I feel like I looked so much better two weeks out.

Like, two-ish.

Like, do you ever feel that?

Yeah.

Yeah, bro.

Like, for one of my last.

Like, I went too long or something, bro.

The stress or something.

Just

I did super well in my show.

Personally, for me, I feel like

no, I'm not trying to put anyone on blast or anything, but I feel like my last few shows, like I probably didn't have to titrate up the doses as much.

This is one of the reasons why I say this is because for my division, I was in men's physique.

So if I'm in open, different story, probably the perfect cycle.

If I'm in classic, probably a bit more similar to men's physique because those two both need to be very...

detailed these days.

But I feel like titrating up my doses made me look a lot bigger and more full, but I just like, I wasn't as defined as I needed to be.

And that was the main criteria that the judges told me that I just needed to be more cut up and more defined.

So for the first show,

you weren't conditioned.

For the first show, I was conditioned as fuck.

And they were like, you're perfectly conditioned, but your posing sucked.

So you need to fix your posing.

Because you.

Yeah, I was literally in first call outs.

And then they moved me out of first call outs because he said that I kept posing in the way that I, in men's physique, you shouldn't be flexing your chest because it needs to stay around.

And then you also need to not do a lat spread.

You need to

backwards more so that you have some back thickness but i was doing these bodybuilding leg poses on stage instead of men's physique because i've never practiced and that's my fault but um

long story short though like when i was just seeing my physique change my personal opinion i feel like i look better for the division when i was more cut up and that basically means that like maybe i didn't have to run the trend or maybe i didn't have to titrate up winstrawl higher I think the halo test is always good, but it's like, I don't feel like halo is just for pumps and shit, right?

It's just for pumps and shit, right?

It hardened.

I don't know.

Because Halo is a huge powerlifting drug, right?

Don't a lot of people do it in powerlifting?

Yeah, they do, but it's just, it's like, it's just a very fast acting aggressive drug.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's, it's pretty similar to trend.

So, like, that's probably why.

Like, maybe some people would be better on trend and not Halo, right?

Or vice versa.

Where like for me, like, I'm better on Halo and and the trend made me feel a little edgy.

He's kind of gotta find, yeah, you just have to finance trial and error a lot of the times.

It sucks, but that's how it fucking works.

That's why it's fun to have this podcast because everyone has different experiences.

Absolutely.

Everyone can, like, you know, can be like, this guy felt like this.

I can fucking kill anything.

So, yeah.

Uh, we fucking ran over time and we forgot to do these questions.

So, I'll try to pick a few like real quick and we'll finish up.

Paulie fucking D asks, are you Kim Kardashian's daddy?

I am not related to the Kardashians, but I share the same last name.

Oh, Oh, dude.

Oh, that's so sweet.

Look at this.

Cody Neary asks, not a question, but this is his coach and let him know I'm proud of him.

My dog, bro.

Shout out to my coach, Cody.

Post-Guide Nirvana asks, how rip can I get without a gym or equipment?

I'm on TRT and masked.

I mean, I don't necessarily think you should be on TRT or Matt.

I mean, TRT is fine if you don't work out, but I wonder what the mask is doing.

Maybe it's an AI.

You could get Jack.

Hypocrite.

What?

Don't be a hypocrite, bro.

What do you mean?

Tell him not to be on TRT and Masked.

Don't tell him or tell him to.

You tell him he doesn't need to be?

He's saying he's not working out?

He said, how ripped can I get without a gym or equipment?

He doesn't have a gym or equipment.

Yeah, no, you can't ever get.

What?

What?

You think, oh, I mean, like, yeah, you could work out at home and shit.

I think, yeah, I think you could get hella ripped doing that.

Like, you can do.

Ask me it one more time.

What's the

question?

Because I don't think I heard it the first time.

How ripped can I get without a gym or equipment?

Oh, okay.

Like COVID for you.

Yeah, yeah, you can do very well.

Obviously, you're not going to do as well with a gym and stuff, but you could get pretty fucking close, I think.

Yeah, you could pretty, you could get pretty great.

Yeah.

Dude, calisthenics dudes look fucking crazy.

I still do calisthenics.

That guy's the Zeka's fucking unreal.

That has the best, bro.

What if he's on Terra Mask?

What if he's on TLT mask?

I would say drop the mask.

I don't think you need it.

It'll probably make you look a little harder, but

I mean, if you're on a list, you don't have a gym membership.

I don't know if you should be doing steroids.

No, you disagree?

I just don't judge what anyone does.

No, I'm not judging.

I'm just

my opinion.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't like.

That's like going to a fucking racetrack without a race car.

What the fuck are you doing here?

If I didn't go to the gym in general, of course I wouldn't be doing steroids.

Yeah.

So yeah, of course not.

Yeah.

But I don't think he should like come off of

it.

I think if you need the TRT, you stay on it forever.

You should not come off of TRT.

Yeah, definitely not.

You should stay on TRT.

You probably don't need the masks, but if you need something as an AR for some reason or something,

like Primo or something to lower your estrogen, then yeah, then be on a little bit of primo.

But I mean, if you're

a little bit, I don't even care how low you're on, even if you're only on 300 tests and 300 primo, you should still get your blood work done.

For sure.

Everybody should.

For sure.

Um,

Fat Mir Derv.

He told me, he asked me a very funny question.

What is this?

I can't wait for this.

Is it true he went absolutely ludicrous January 6th on Capsule?

That's my boy.

That's it.

And he used to write that in all my TikTok lives and shit.

That's crazy.

My boys are idiots.

Next month, crazy.

Coleman Barzi asks, who does he think is next up and coming influencer?

Ooh.

Hmm.

That's a good one.

I mean, Togi was crazy.

You saw his wave.

He's still obviously influenced.

But

I don't know.

You just saw Togie at the Jubilee and we're talking in past tense already.

No, but you know what I'm saying?

Like his pop-off was crazy.

His like jump-off was crazy.

He's still doing insane.

Yeah, no, no, but I'm saying like he if I six months ago, I would say him, but I don't know.

That's a tough question.

I'll get back to that one.

I don't really know, man.

VM Kitty asked, why are his eyes always red?

Well, I smoke a lot of weed.

That's why my eyes are always red.

You sure that's not why?

What?

Four weeks to two weeks out of prep?

I stopped smoking my prep.

Really?

Yeah.

Completely?

Yeah.

I would have like one hit before bed.

And then you're a liar.

All bodybuilders on

all pro bodybuilders smoke weed.

I was so fucked up in my prep, man.

I just didn't want it.

I don't know.

It was weird.

And I felt like

it made my cravings a lot worse.

It made my cravings

so bad, bro.

Yeah, bro.

So bad.

I fucking, I can't smoke weed on the bed for that same reason, too.

Except like right before I go to sleep.

If it's just like a little bit more.

That's what I'm saying.

And I can, and I won't be munchies and I won't eat regular shit, whatever.

But if I'm on no food whatsoever, a thousand calories and fucking smoking, it's like, fuck, bro.

Yeah.

It's hard, bro.

Lancer, Lancer Hefner asks, favorite stack to run and keep health micros in check.

Somewhat healthy.

Shout out to Lance.

He's a good guy.

But yeah, I would just say test primo bar.

That's pretty much what I fuck with only.

And therapeutic HGH.

I agree with a test primo, like for a lot of open bodybuilders, a lot of pro, not open bodybuilders, but a lot of pro-bodybuilders.

Terrence Ruffin and I just had the same conversation on the podcast that we both want to test primo during our offseason because that's going to be the least harmful to your bloods.

Yeah.

To all bloods.

Yeah, like the MPPs, the EQ, all that shit's going to be tough on your fucking bloods and shit.

Probably not as good.

It's not as.

Those are like growing cycles.

Not as subtle as...

Yeah, yeah.

It's not as subtle as the Primo.

I feel like the MPP for some people could be okay, but obviously it's also

a little bit neurotoxic.

For some people, it causes the mental issues.

I heard the craziest shit about MPP, bro.

Took it, nothing happened.

Yeah.

I don't really feel that much on MPP.

It makes me feel a little bit more chill.

That's what it does for me.

But But I think that's probably just prolactin-related.

Okay, that makes sense.

Same thing as like weed.

Weed raises men's prolactin.

NPP, DECA, that raises your prolactin too.

So if you're like on tons of Deca and you're on tons of weed at the same time,

you could get some fucking mad gyno.

Yeah.

You could.

You think it's that bad for weed?

No.

Because weed really does it?

Some people could.

Yeah.

Maybe you not.

Yeah.

I have a little gyno.

I got to get fucking taken out.

I definitely fucking, I definitely get the shit.

When my prolactin increases, my nipples get sensitive.

I will see.

I take some P5P.

That's it.

It's over-the-counter.

Oh, no, no.

No, you can get it on Amazon.

It's just like, it's activated vitamin B6.

Okay.

And you just take it and it raises the dolactines.

You don't inject it, though, no?

No, it's, it's, you just fucking

take twelve or right?

I guess you could, yeah.

Yeah, but it's just a vitamin on Amazon.

You just

take like a supplement and it raises the dopamine in your brain, which decreases prolactin.

So I'm learning a lot from you.

So it's fire, bro.

I've learned a bunch just chilling.

Bro, if you ever smoke weed and you just feel like you just can't do anything, but you have a lot of shit to do, pop some P5P.

I'm going to look it up.

I'm definitely at least 100 milligrams.

You'll be fucking what, 20 bucks on Amazon?

Yeah, I'll try it.

It's like fucking 10 bucks.

Yeah, I'll fucking try it.

It's fire.

Look at me freaking enabling people to take more weed.

You're like, yeah, keep the mast in, bro.

You don't fucking work out or or go to the gym?

Yeah, fucking wrote off mask.

TRT Plus.

Nate kind of slow asks,

is it worth it to take gear even if it doesn't benefit your job?

I.e.

competing or influencer?

Yeah.

Fucking

man, it makes me depressed that people just fucking connect gear with influencer now, too.

Yeah, but it's better.

That's how you blow up, bro.

Yeah.

Better body, better physique, better views.

I think you should take steroids to elevate your life in best ways, though.

I think you definitely should.

If you're going to do it, it should help you.

You know what I'm saying?

I agree with that, but I disagree with it being a blanket statement.

Like, personally, I think being more descriptive, like you should only take anything related to steroids.

So, like, TRT or test.

If your test is at a low level, if your,

your life isn't at its, at what it could be, it's not at its peak because, one like your fucking your emotions are unstable um you're not motivated you're not driven um you're lacking energy day to day you have no sex drive you can't perform in bed all of these various symptoms like if you're experiencing those then yeah you fucking need should do to either try at gene and chlamophene together and see if that works for you which probably is not going to be the best or just fucking take trt and just commit to it honestly after

getting your sleep in check and then getting your food in check and then losing if you're like obese or something losing that shit after the lifestyle factors you try that if that doesn't work and your test is still low take some fucking TRT 100%

Nate asks again.

What is his mentality around pushing heavy cycles and PDs in general?

Stupid.

I've done it.

Wouldn't suggest it at all.

Unless you're trying to fucking be C-bum.

Yeah.

Gumbas.

I think like

I think the heavy cycles are things that guys, like the smartest guys in the industry will titrate up to so it's not heavy for them anymore.

one example, I mean, there's a ton of examples, like there's a ton of open bodybuilders that have probably done this in like a slow titrating up way, but the closest example that I can think of, in my opinion, is um

who's not an open pro, he just talks about it openly as Chase Irons, and he's the guy who like talked with more plates, more dates about it.

He's trying to do 5,000 tests.

Yeah, yeah, 5,000 tests or take like five grams of tests or something.

Something crazy, he's trying to get his, yeah, he's trying to get his test levels to 20k,

but like this guy, like, I had a, you know, I had a full conversation with him.

Like, he didn't start off taking these grams of, of course not.

Yeah.

He's taking it for years.

I see what you're getting at.

Just like, I see what you're saying.

You know, at a certain level, to continuously feel the same levels of a certain drug.

Sometimes for a lot of different drugs, you know, you build a tolerance.

Right.

And this isn't related to androgen receptor or whatever.

It's just.

Any drug.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Curt Havens calls it homeostasis, but basically, you know, you have to titrate up the drug in order to feel or experience a lot of the same benefits.

Right.

So, I mean, that's especially because you've done it for so long.

Yeah, exactly.

You get used to it and you need more.

So that's why I think it's kind of like, like, I think these things need to be said because they're

there's some, there's just some people out there that just aren't like coherent enough to be able to connect the dots and say that, like,

oh, I should not take three grams of test

because this open bodybuilder is taking three grams and I want to be like him.

If you want to be like him, then start from what he started at.

You don't know what he started at, but I promise you, it's not three grams.

You know what I mean?

You have to emulate him.

Yeah, it's kind of like what I...

You're going to have a shit time if you see like optimal versus not bro science and shit.

I mean, you probably work out the same way I do, bro.

I saw IFPB pros.

I saw like, I love Jeremy Bundia.

Like for some reason, he was just a great guy.

I loved him for some reason.

Watched him work out and I started working out just like these guys.

If you want to be the best, bro, you have to do every single thing these guys are doing.

Like,

not two fucking optimal sets of pull downs, bro.

It's not going to do shit.

I'm sorry.

I don't know how you feel about that shit, but no, I'm a volume dude, too.

Not a, not fucking bro.

Not fucking 200 reps.

All right, well, that's all now, but you want big hamstrings or not?

It's like, yo, come on.

I'm getting depressed.

The part that I'm upset about is I feel like I know that you're kind of right and I need to do a little bit more.

You have to do that.

I need to do more reps.

I think I need to do higher reps.

The more you put in, the more you get out, no matter what, bro.

I found out my

thing is overtraining.

My genetics are composed of more slow switch fibers.

Okay, so I'm more of like an endurance athlete.

I'm not a good powerlifting athlete.

I'm the same way.

I can't, I can lift, like, I can train for so long and do so many reps, but that's how it is.

You build yourself up, and I think I've done that too.

It is, but like, that's what my genetics said.

Oh, really?

Oh, okay.

It said, it's oh, so that's right.

It's called, yeah, it's how I felt.

That shit's right.

And then I fucking got it tested and it said the same shit.

And I'm like, bro.

I fucking knit the whole time.

So, yeah, it's called impaired muscle performance, which basically means like, it's like this person would fare more as an endurance athlete, like more slow twitch fibers.

Yeah, not would not perform well really for

under measures of power.

Do you think you can break these molds, though?

Do you think you can move fast it?

Well, I powerlifted as a kid in college and stuff.

So I got some good numbers.

That's why your ski is so good, bro.

I was never fucking crazy, though.

There's some dudes that were like in college who were squatting like 700.

Yeah.

And I'm like, there's no, like, I was,

I was having a hard time squatting like four.

I was having a hard time with

college.

You couldn't have weighed much.

You weighed like fucking 150 pounds, 175 pounds.

It was like 116.

Yeah.

What the fuck do you want to do?

You want to move with the thousand pounds, buddy psycho?

Yeah, but some of these guys are strong, bro.

Yeah.

Like Larry Wheels, like, I feel like that guy, he's got the opposite genetics of me in terms of like that whole like fucking he's got the fucking high fat yeah that guy has fucking enhanced muscle performance bro so

but yeah we got to train with whatever we're given so for you and i maybe that means doing 200 reps every single fucking day

you don't get sore at least i'm gonna kill myself

yeah you get used to it very fast so oh yeah

all right i'm gonna see you at gold just ripping hamstrings that's what I'm talking about, bro.

Dude, people already have been getting on me for doing so many sets of hamstrings.

Really?

Because I'll just sit on the seated hamstring curl machine for eight sets.

I like the shit you hold on to.

I like that.

That's really good for hamstring.

Let's ask one last question because my editors are going to charge me extra because this is too long now.

It's a good thing, though, that we went.

No, it's a good thing.

This is pretty cool.

Kimbo 11 asks Need to ask him if if he'd rather be rich or famous.

Has to pick one.

Rich.

100%.

I think either or, though, you could get money from being you could get famous from being rich.

You can get rich from being famous.

I think I'd rather.

I think I'm the same.

Yeah.

I'd rather.

Yeah, I don't know.

I want to be a celebrity that no one knows.

That's the coolest part.

But being a celebrity is really cool, too.

That's my own, you know, but that's my, that's like my business plan.

That's my business model now.

Get famous to get rich.

Yeah.

Huh?

No?

Is that you're kind of how kind of you?

Well,

I don't know, man.

Maybe I just took a lot of streams or something, so I don't care.

It's much anywhere.

Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?

That's kind of how you thought about it, right?

Post videos.

A lot of people see me.

I get views.

Money.

Maybe I care more about the...

It's not like fame.

It's like I want to...

I just want to impact the world in a really positive way.

I don't want to be known for it.

Like, I want to do a lot of good things and help a lot of people.

I love.

And I want people to say my name when I'm dead and be like, yo, this person taught me this shit, or this person taught me this shit, or something like that.

You know what I mean?

I don't want to just be like a physique.

I want to like, I want to help people.

That's why I have the podcast.

That's what I'm saying.

Maybe that's fame.

Maybe I care more about fame or something.

You want to care more about prestige, that's for sure.

I care more about achieving status, bro.

Status is the ultimate thing, bro.

No matter what.

Amazing as fuck, bro.

But like, you know what I'm saying?

Every guy wants status.

You want to be the fucking man.

I don't know about you, but yeah.

Yeah.

I think everybody cares to a certain degree.

You want to be a fucking man, bro, you want to be cool, right?

I want to be fucking cool.

Yeah,

I wish I was cool.

You are, bro.

You're cool with me.

Joe Gordo asks, name a few people who inspired him to hustle hard and get money back home living in small town New York.

This is Joey Gordo, that's it.

Nice.

Sick.

Dave Jova asks, what's the stack?

Right now, I'm on

300 test, 300 primo, two I use a GH.

Nice.

Yeah.

How do you feel like GHs work for you?

Do you feel like it's?

I feel like it does nothing.

No, dude, for real.

I feel like it does nothing.

Honestly.

I've done two IUs and I've done three IUs.

Three IUs, my whole hand will be numb in the morning.

Two IUs doesn't do that for me, but I feel like it does nothing.

I think it fills you up.

I definitely feel nice and full because the first time

the first time I ever did it, I took an insane picture and I was like, whoa.

For me, it's not that.

That's got to be the GH.

For me, the look feels the same as if I just took a fucked out of creatine regularly.

It'll just get

expensive.

Just more full and more watery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I know it'll help me.

My coach says to do it.

It's more lethargic if you like take a fucking big dose that you're not used to.

You'll feel the same.

I do it at night now, so it's different.

I used to do it in the morning, but my new coach and my coach said now, he said, do it for more effect before bed.

I just keep praying that I'm going to get the whole fucking good skin, fucking nice hair and nails and shit.

Come on.

You don't think like that?

You don't think you guys.

This hair don't look like it, dude.

I will say I'm a little on my my hair grew back i will say that from it i feel like primo is destroying my hair almost really i feel like it's i don't drying it out or something i only do primo pretty much bro i only do primo too but i feel like i feel like maybe that's why like i've run primo for so long with my tests like maybe the dhc derived stuff is

do you think the longer you or or some people have said it's actually not the gear it's just monoxidil some people say monoxidil dries no oh make oh it dries your hair out maybe yeah i don't know much about that

i know that it's not like people have a lot of mixed opinions on it: finasteride and monoxidil.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of people are like

that shit, and then a lot of people are super on it.

So, it's yeah, I mean, I thought about just being I thought about just being

bald, shaving my head, looking like an ink.

That's what I was doing.

I had a client sign up for me, and he was bald.

I said, I'll shave my hair with you right now, bro.

I did, yeah, that's why my hair is so short right now.

I don't, I feel like it's not like that bad of a look, but no,

especially a good-looking guy like us, nice body, fucking hair don't men, yeah, hair ain't the the big deal.

We have the money, though, to go to Turkey, though.

There you go, yeah.

And we can fucking do it for free, bro.

They'll do our fucking.

That's what we'll do.

We'll go to Turkey first, get it done.

Hopefully,

hopefully they don't fucking hang out, relax,

implant something in us or some shit first.

And then when we bought for the free.

Yeah, we'll do a little vacation.

Oh, it's shit.

Yeah, what?

So that we can come back.

We want you to come back.

All right.

Yeah, I think that's about it.

I had such a good time, bro.

That was sick.

Fucking That was fucking fun.

That's by far the best podcast I've ever done.

This was fun.

This was hella fun.

I had an amazing podcast with my boy Gabe.

This, but yeah, this is fucking.

You did a good job, brother.

Thanks for watching.

I'm happy with you too, bro.

You're easy to talk to.

You're right.

Thank you.

Good.

Last question I ask every guest of every podcast.

If you were to die tomorrow and you had one

message you would send to the entire world today, what would it be?

I would probably say

the second you stop giving a fuck about anything and just live your life, that'll be the best, because that'll be the best day and forward of your life.

Bro, for real.

Because that's how I did it, bro.

I came out here to grind and do my thing.

But the first thing one of my boys said, and he knows, and like, you can kind of tell my, I don't, I have a very don't give a fuck mentality.

But yeah, like my boy was like, yo, if you're really going to try to do this shit and you're really going to do it, bro, you have to not give a fuck, bro.

And that's how I live my life for the rest of my life, bro.

Don't give a fuck.

Do whatever you want to do.

I'm not saying be an asshole or do, you know, crazy shit.

But yeah, bro, whatever you want to do, do it.

And then I'll just to piggyback on this.

If you have a dream that is even in grasp, go for it.

You can't manifest a million dollars and just, you know, become fucking Brad Pitt tomorrow.

That's not a realistic thing.

But if you have anything that you even could possibly work towards, you should fucking do it, bro.

Because that's what I do with influencing.

And that's the reason why I'm here now.

And yeah.

That was a good question.

I like that.

I completely agree with that.

I think the hard part for most of us, though, in that place is like picking the things that you like kind of do give a fuck about, right?

Like giving a fuck about your family, giving a fuck about your friends or giving a fuck about like...

Looking like a loser to your hometown or whatever.

It's like, fuck that, bro.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fuck that, bro.

Let it fuck that.

Not worth it.

Be yourself, live your life, and then that it'll tumble into 10 other things, bro.

Just like I'm saying now, bro.

Just from not giving a fucking posting videos on social media.

Now I'm here doing this with you, so it's fucking awesome, bro.

Where can everybody find you?

Uh, Ron Kardashian on all platforms.

Um, uh,

and yeah, man, if you guys want to learn how to talk to women for a living, uh, that's what I do for a living.

And if you want to get in shape, that's what I do.

Just shoot me a DM.

Yeah,

how big was your TikTok before you got 250K?

I did 100K in the first six months.

Sick, bro.

Unbelievable, bro.

I thought, I was like, what the fuck, bro?

I got 100K within like three, four months.

Fucking the hottest girl I've ever seen in my life, bro.

I thought I was the fucking cool.

I still do.

I am the coolest person I know, you know, no matter what anyone says.

But yeah, I thought I was the man, bro.

I still am, but yeah, I had a pop-off and it was awesome.

It was great.

Damn.

Fuck yeah.

Cool.

Thanks for coming on, bro.

Absolutely.

This will not be the well.

Do you ever have second time comes?

All right, cool.

All right.

So this isn't the last time.

I'll do it again for sure.

This is fucking awesome, dude.

Thank you so much, bro.

Thanks, guys.

Love you guys.

Get your blood work done.

Stay healthy.

Yeah, don't be an idiot.

Stay tuned.

Don't blah.

Peace, guys.