Don Garber on Messi, MLS Calendar Changes, Retirement and More

a big fan of what Cindy and J.T. Batson have done.

They have turned that federation into a powerhouse, riding the wave of the World Cup, signing Mauricio, who's the biggest MLS fan I think we've ever had, believes in our league more than I think any coach has.

And I'll get criticized for that, I'm sure, on social media from those guys who might think I'm talking about them. So there's a great dynamic.

Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim, presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S.
soccer for over five years.

Welcome into Unfiltered Soccer. We're your host.
I'm Tim Howard. He's Landon Donovan.
And as always, we're presented by Volkswagen. This little guy.
By the way, it's cold in New York.

You never come see me. Why are you here? Why are we together? It was 77 degrees when I left yesterday.
And today it feels like 17. I love you.

I love our team, but I would only come for a very special guest, which we will get to in a minute.

As always, guys, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcast, that little follow or subscribe button, hit that, leave a review.

And as always, you can email us at unfilteredfeedback at unfilteredsoccer.com. All right, why are we here, Tim? Well,

a dear friend of ours and of the show,

but more importantly, the

leader of the MLS for the last 26 years, who has basically seen it all.

has gotten MLS to a place where no one thought

it could get to. And not quite single-handedly, but really.

But mostly. The driving force of the MLS that we used to know and the MLS that we know now.

None other than the Commissioner, Don Garber. Don Garber.

All right, Commish, thank you very much for being here with us. My first question, and this is for Tim and you, when are you coming to the light side and getting hair? like this?

What do you think? What do you think about it? What do you think about this hair?

Here we go, man. I was hoping we would have fun.
You know,

I started losing my hair when I was about in my 40s. Yeah.
And I leaned into it. You know, it hasn't affected.
I've been married for 40 years. She didn't leave you.
She didn't leave you.

Most people lean into it. So this guy,

it hasn't affected my career. You know, it's not like I'm

at all. Listen, I think you got to lean into the things you have.

But that's me.

I think you look great, man. I think you look great.

He's brilliant in answering questions. And what he's saying there is he doesn't love.

Tim asked me some mornings we get on the pod, and he goes, I can't believe your wife stays with me.

That's ridiculous. It's not even about the hair.
Let's get it. Here's the key question.
Do you like it? I love it. Well, there you go.
I walk around with my shoulders back. I'm like, no sense.

I look around that way all the time.

That's busy or the cool. Or not, depending on how life is going.
True, so. All right, let's jump into this.
So MLS just celebrated its 30th season, and you started in 99.

So when you look back, if you were in your first season and you were projecting ahead, do you think the league is where you thought it would be?

Further ahead, a little further behind? How would you sort of analyze it? Never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd be where we are today. Really?

So, the game last weekend was as competitive and as quality a match as we could have ever hoped for, putting aside the players and the teams.

It was a great soccer game, great football game to those of you that are involved internationally. When I started, I mean, I had nothing to lose.
We'll probably, we got a lot of time together.

It seemed like a good thing to do for my career. I was in the sports business for a while.
And then I got there and I said, you know, wow, they play by different rules. They have this shootout thing.

And I didn't know a lot about soccer when I came in.

I probably don't know a lot now, but it's been 20. almost 26 years.
I know a little more than I get credit for. But it just seemed odd to me.
Everything about it seemed odd.

The economics weren't good. We had MLS owning and controlling teams.
So the guy who was overseeing that would go into a different room and make trades with himself.

I mean, the whole thing just seemed crazy. So good.
And as you know, we went and took a step back and said, unless we do these three things, we got to have a restart.

So during a, there was a long period of time, Landon, when we weren't sure it would ever

continue, let alone succeed. I want to get to the point now where we're kind of the talk of the global soccer business.
So, I feel good about it. Still got a long way to go.

Yeah, it's funny because I think about Lennon's a little bit younger, but I think about my first couple years in MLS and the growth that we see now. And people know

I'm an investor owner in Houston, and it's amazing to me that my first locker room with the Metro stars was an old rickety gym at Kane University. And

it blows my mind to sort of to get to where we were, as you said, last weekend. And I just,

you've overseen so many pivotal moments of this league, whether that be stadiums, ownership,

realignment, players.

And I'm with Messi coming in to the league,

it's the biggest moment since David Beckham.

How did you expect it to go and how has it gone?

Well, you know, I was just with him the other day. We spoke together in English, which was nice.

He was emotional,

which continues to impress me, not surprise me. He loves being in the league.
He loves winning trophies. I don't know why he continues to play 90 minutes when they don't need him on the field.

I've been told that's his choice, and that's the way the guy's wired. I saw Congerline on social media, and all the players were dancing around.
Did you guys see this?

And, you know, Leo was there. So I guess I'm going to do this.
But it wasn't like he is

engaging this in ways which are beyond, this is about the game. This is about records.
This is about lifting trophies. And that's no different than you guys.

But there's a unicorn aspect to it. And

I never look back. You guys know me for a long time.
I'm always looking forward.

At some point, I'll look back and say, you know, we had the best player to ever play the game in our league while we were on a trajectory to try to make MLS more relevant here and around the world.

Winning a championship helps, but look what Vancouver did.

Diametrically different from Miami's approach. Thomas Mueller is running around Vancouver as if he's their favorite son.
And then you look at Sonny in LA.

So in one year, you bring in these three world-class players, and it's just thrilling and it's delivering on what everybody hoped MLS would be.

Happy that Leo's Leo's resigned. Happy that Miami has got their beautiful stadium project going.
I wish Jordi Albo was staying in the league because he's a badass.

When I go to those games and I watch how intense he is, I don't know how they replace that.

But we got a lot to talk about about from where we were to where we are.

And before I get there, and this is going to sound solicitous, but it isn't, you know, we were built this league on the backs of guys like you.

And I have a regret that, you know, when you're a commissioner, you can't really engage that much with players. You know, you have fans as constituents.
You have municipalities.

You obviously have owners. You've got staff.
But what warms my heart is to see guys like you. And I presented the Landon Donovan MVP trophy.

I didn't just say the MVP trophy, Landon. You know, we were walking out there and said, 20 years from now, there's going to be some other Leo.
And your name's on that trophy.

And you should feel great about that. I do.
Having you help us us build this league.

I remember, Tim, when you came in as a young kid and seeing you grow and seeing you go to Europe and seeing your broadcast career, that's more important to me than any one player today.

That is the legacy that when I look back, I'll say, we built an ecosystem that has taken soccer through MLS energy and investment and put it on a platform.

for tens of thousands and millions of people.

At some point, I'll take a step back. I think I'll feel pretty good about that.
We appreciate that. Thank you.

I think, yes, thank you. I think as we get older and

we do have a perspective that's unique, and there are a lot of new soccer fans in this country you're well aware of.

And I think having the appreciation and respect for those who came before, I mean, I was watching David last week, David Beckham. Prian.
Sir David Beckham. Sir David Beckham

on the broadcast.

He was more engaged there than I almost ever saw him in a soccer game. And he was really damn engaged in a soccer game.

And I don't know if it's luck that those two are the two humans who decided because their soccer ability speaks for themselves. But what you've gotten out of Lionel Messi is just incredible.

And I think it's, it's just, it's been remarkable. And the interesting thing with Leo is, and this was like David too, and with like the Galaxy back when I was there.

He's become a little bit villainous in the league outside of Miami. David or Leo? Both a little bit.
You know, at first when they come, it's like, wow, let's go buy a ticket.

And now like Eastern Conference friends are like, we want Miami to lose. Screw Lil.

Is it good in your opinion? We talk about this a lot. Is it good in your opinion to have villains in the league? Yeah.
You know, listen, I'm agnostic to who wins.

And I think I get, you always get criticized for the perception that you support the galaxy back in the day or Miami today.

You know, the, the, my office in the league has got to push the whole enterprise forward, but you've got to have villains. Now, I prefer that they're villains, not for things they do wrong,

having, you know, lovers and haters like you have in the rest of sports. But, you know,

I'm a bad guy to have on this because I know you guys probably have a plan.

Landon, I think one of the coolest things I've ever done in my career, and I've done a lot of cool stuff, I've had a lot of great experiences, was the party where we welcomed David and his wife to L.A.

that CAA bought together like

every celebrity on the planet. Tom Cruise.
And then there were like maybe 10 suits,

Your team. And 10 of us.
And I remember walking around there and I remember seeing David and Victoria like, holy shit. Like, what is this?

Different world.

Will Smith dancing, Stevie Wonder. And I can remember looking at them and saying, like, man, they have no idea what they're getting themselves into.
Totally. Is it a fair?

I mean, you've seen, but you've seen, you've, you've single-handedly seen that and experienced it.

Is it a fair question to say who, who's had a bigger impact on the league?

Because they both had a huge difference. Well, David now in different ways.

But as a player, it was both, it was seismic. Right.
But if you're asking who's had a bigger impact, I mean, David now has

helped bring a new franchise and Leo.

It's a great question because with respect to the American icons, right? If you guys didn't decide to come back, then MLS or start and come back, right? MLS wouldn't be what it is today.

And I think sometimes we lose sight of that. That's why we have this MLS Greats program.
If you've ever played a minute in MLS, you're an MLS great. And we had 30 players at MLS Cup.

Now, I'm not sure a minute should be the divider. I mean, maybe it's

a season or something like that. But when David came in, he said, you know, this is a league that has potential.
And I remember meeting with him.

And I wasn't in the documentary, but I was at that meeting in that restaurant in Spain and getting interviewed by Victoria and David and having Tim Laiwicki, who you remember well, Ivan Gazitas, who went on to a great career at Milan and Arsenal.

We sat there and they were saying, like, what is this American experiment? I remember when we did the white line and I was walking around and I was in an elevator and Victoria said to me, like,

why do you guys do this? Like, it's the game is great. You don't need to have a white line.
And we turned them into loving our league and loving being a part of it.

So if Leo came into MLS when he was a young kid, when David came in, it wouldn't have had the impact that he did now. Sure.

Because I never would have thought, you know, we've had at the draw, Kakaz there and Yuri Georkiyev is there and, you know, Drogba is there. You had all these players who played in MLS.

They helped their team and they raised credibility. They chose us.
But when the best player ever chooses you and succeeds,

and what will happen 10 years from now? Maybe it's two years from now. Maybe it's Mbappe.

You know, maybe it's someone. I'm giving a little hint there, huh? Now, I mean, he's got a great career going, but I don't know.
I mean, if I was, if I was Vinnie Jr., I'd love to come to MLS.

You know, well, we always say they all would. And if competition and compensation is equal or relatively equal, and we're on that path now.
And we're paying them more, by the way, in some cases.

And they would get overseas. That's part of the show.

And I think the competition is,

we're not the Premier League. That should be a nice start for us, but it's getting closer all the time.
Yeah.

It's time for crossroads, presented by Nitza. Nitza's here to remind you to drive sober or get pulled over.
Commissioner Garber spoke about other players raising the credibility of MLS.

And in short, he said, who knows what's next? Maybe it's Mbappe. Maybe it's Vinny Jr.
We're not the Premier League, but we're getting closer.

Look, I think that it's going to be a matter of players who are in in their quote-unquote European prime choosing to come to MLS. And why do I think that's a crossroads?

Because they're going to have to make some decisions the same way Beckham did and the same way Messi did, although it could be argued Messi's at the back end of his career.

But they chose to come to MLS when there were plenty of other suitors. Like it wasn't.
like a last-ditch effort sort of thing to save their career. They chose to do that.

And so when I look at some of the players, they're going to have to weigh up, do I want to carry the league on my back? It's not easy to do. It's not easy to do.

It's not easy to come here and have success with those expectations. I think of an Mbappe, as he mentioned, of Vinny Jr.,

Holland, as an example from Manchester City. I even put Christian Pulisic

in that same boat. He has that sort of gravitas, especially with U.S.
fans.

When they get approached, And if they have the opportunity, will they choose to come to MLS and be the next sort of David Beckham, messy, slats on Ibrahimovich to an extent, although it wasn't as

long?

It's a difficult decision. It's one that

when you look at some of these players,

it's not going to be this complete

loads of loads of players. It's going to be specific top-level world-class player who decides to come.
So

I think it's an interesting comment and it's an interesting debate.

Curious to know what you think.

Who would you love to see? What international global superstar would you love to see come to MLS and play for your team? Send us your thoughts at Unfiltered Soccer.

I think the villain aspect for me is always important. I do think, look, I say it all the time.

The only thing better than being the New York Giants fan is the fact that the Cowboys play every Sunday because you want to root against somebody. That's just how it is.

This could turn into a villainous question as well.

But with the Vancouver situation, with the stadium, is there any sort of light that you can shed on that i know it's a it's very american or north american to to talk about like relocation like that's not a thing in in other countries like that that just wouldn't happen because of the loyalty is that

is that even possible or you think they'll get this we should say we're we're recording this on thursday so when this comes out i i know there was i think they announced that there's going to be an announcement or

something at City Hall today. Yeah.
So is there any more light? Listen, I missed that in a busy day yesterday.

So honestly, I don't know what's going to happen at that announcement, but Tim, I'll take it on.

You know, listen,

these jobs are unique, right? And that's why it's so fun to sort of share in a non, you know,

confrontational way with fans the challenge of having to make decisions where most of the time, half the people who are affected by that disagree with it.

You know, I have this great line that Paul Taglebu gave me when I left the league. He said to me, you're going to see what what life is like without leverage.

And 26 years in for me, we have no leverage. You know, we don't have leverage of the European leagues.
We don't have leverage of the South American clubs.

We don't have leverage of the domestic leagues. And that made us better, but it's really hard.

He also said, keep the owners who hate you away from the ones who are undecided. Now, think about that.
You know, we go into a boardroom,

and keep the owners who already don't like you, Landon, and there are many who don't like me, away from the ones who haven't quite figured out which side they're going to take.

Imagine a boardroom of 60 people, not including all the family and all the team presidents.

We go into meetings and we have to make tough decisions knowing that there are going to be a lot of people that don't agree.

When you take something like what we did in San Jose to Houston or what we did, the challenge in Columbus, which was literally rolling the perfect dice, it turned out great.

We have a great owner. We've got a great stadium.
You've got a great team. Congratulations to not to Winfred.

We have a great team in Austin. Worked out fine, but I could tell you, that was unpleasant.
I had death threats. I had security outside my house during that process.
And in Vancouver,

I say with vigor, we don't have a good stadium situation.

It just has to

get fixed.

And I think we have a dynamic with the politics in that community where everybody loves the team.

But I can't, nobody should expect that an owner is going to have a substandard stadium without the progress that we were hoping for with the multiple trips that I've made there.

An owner who's willing to invest in a proper soccer-specific stadium. And you scratch your head and saying, what more do they need to do? Sure.
I mean, look at that.

We had more fans visiting fans in Miami than we've had on any MLS Cup. I believe that.

They came across the continent. Yeah.
You have an owner that's put a great team on the field. You've got a new player who loves the city.

They've defied all the odds by getting in the final. So Tim, you know, the last thing any commissioner wants to do is move a team.
It is,

it's the worst possible outcome.

But cities around, you know, the history of sport have recognized an owner can't just be in a situation where you've got a publicly run building. That's right.
They share no revenue.

There's no naming rights. The stadium isn't what it needs to be.

So what are we going to do? We got to do something.

I hope they step up. And we, and, and

we were talking off camera. When you make an announcement at City Hall, it's usually a, it's usually a positive one.
So we hope that that is the case. Vancouver's a great place to play.
Love the city.

I've enjoyed my time there. So long may that continue.
By the way, the mayor has been very supportive. Great.
I think the dynamic with the province and with the premier is more complicated. Sure.

It's not that he doesn't want to do it, but it's more complicated. The factors, the constituencies are different.
The economics are different. Budgets are different.

The mayor who was at the draw, I chatted with him. I met with him a couple of weeks ago.
He's a fan. You know, the guy who's working on this, by the way, for the premiere was at,

he's a, it loves the team. He was attending games.
It's not like people don't love the team, but you know, you need more love. You need substance.
And we got to deliver on the substance. Amen to that.

So relocation, hopefully, is not a thing. Hopefully.
I think for most U.S. soccer fans, they love the expansion talk and the possibilities.
Where are you with that?

Do you want to go beyond the current?

You don't have to talk about cities or you can, but what's the thought process now? I'll be happy to talk about it all in.

And, you know, expansion has driven a lot of the energy and success of the league. And you guys have lived and seen that, right? You have a new team, the energy and the community and the partners.

And again, it takes years and years. You know, we go to, people look at Cincinnati and you love the stadium and you love what the club's doing.
You love what Pat's doing.

And you see Carl Lidner building a building in a part of town and having a development around it.

You know, we had to get together with the mayor, with the governor who had not liked us very much with the Columbus process and obviously turned around and was supportive.

You get city leaders together and sponsors in the community and it becomes a celebration. And that celebration leads to a team.
Fans don't have to know about the sausage making.

They just want to see a great club that represents the character of the city. You know,

I don't know if we go to 32 teams. Many of the other major leagues are at 32.
It's a big country. Travel, you guys lived this.
Travel is a big issue for us.

The days of, I remember Lothar Matteus once coming to my office and saying, you know, I don't know if you know who I am, but I'm a pretty well-known player, and I have to sit in the middle row going from L.A.

and I just thought

what you guys are thinking about. Everybody's flying charter charter for years now.
It's been five years.

But Vancouver travels 60,000 miles a year.

When you guys were playing in England,

you were home for dinner at night.

So more teams creates more

efficiency. We'll see what happens in Phoenix.
It's a big city. It's a great market.
They love to have a team. Las Vegas has had a lot of energy for many, many years.
You guys have heard about that.

I think Sacramento is MLS ready. I don't know where that goes, but it's an MLS-ready MLS-ready market.
We had a false start there. I kind of wish that we didn't.

Detroit continues to impress me. It's a rising city.
I love rising cities with rising leagues. So we'll see.

I love Detroit. I love Detroit just as a sports town.

I mean, when you go downtown, all the stadiums are right there.

You can throw a baseball from one to the other.

It's a cool city. And God, Lothar Mateus, I can't believe he walked into your office.
I played with him. You know that, right? Did you? Yeah, the Metro stars.
I mean, it's, that was impressive.

He was not happy he was never happy he came here he should have known what he was getting this kills me with these guys the funny thing you signed the contract you know it was gonna be the funny thing about what i realized about lothar later on is he just then he then just started plucking jobs he would say to his agent like get me to hungary or get me to brazil and he would just get these coaching jobs we're like wherever he wanted so that was different in terms of like roster building restrictions right so when the league first started going way back to when when you came into the league when i when i signed out of high school,

it was league owned, right?

You mentioned that. And so you had to be careful.
And MLS has been really careful about economically building something that's sustainable because all the other leagues have come and gone in America.

So that's the big, a big credit to MLS. Now that we're at a place, you talked about so many brilliant ownership groups.

Is there a way to responsibly sort of loosen the purse strings and get to a place where spending goes beyond what it is now. I know there's different mechanisms in place to sort of safeguard that.

And obviously it would be irresponsible to just go willy-nilly. But is there a way that we get more messies through the door?

You know, this is if after we got through the calendar change,

the single biggest project that you guys would be

interesting to see how we're going about that because it's very different than the past, is figuring out what our future is from a roster structure perspective and from a spending perspective.

And, you know, I kind of live my life in a way that never believes that what you've done in the past is the way you need to do it in the future, because then you never move forward.

And if you make decisions out of arrogance or out of fear, you fail. You have to have courage, but you have to be thoughtful and strategic.

And we've gone through all of the trials of reorganization and, you know, 9-11, COVID, COVID, the 2008 economic crisis.

We've gone through a lot and we've always been able to have enough stability to continue to grow, not just

exist.

So when I came in and remember Sunil Gulati and the founders, nobody knew anything about pro soccer.

The NASL had folded it 10 years prior. So they actually developed this league and said, we have to hire the coaches.
We have to do the leagues.

We've got to manage everything because the ecosystem didn't create a dynamic where you had experts. Totally.
That's totally different today. Yes.

Again, you think about history. That's what we've created.
We've grown a commercial market. That's the most valuable in the world.

And I think that all of our technical people and our coaches and our staff are among the best in the world. They're getting plucked.

Darren Eales is going from Atlanta and he's going to the Premier League. So that never happened in the past.
Similarly, with coaches and obviously with players.

So we have to continue to be thoughtful, but be courageous. When we did the calendar change, we got all of our owners into pods.

And the CSO, the chief soccer officer, the chief business officer, and the owner met with the league, backed by data research with a company based out of the UK that did all of the data analytics on weather and all the impacts on revenue.

We're doing the same thing about what the future of our structure is. We have a uniqueness with our union.
We've got to sit down with them and finalize where we are on the calendar change.

And our agreement with the union expires at the end of 27.

There's more opportunity and we have to collectively think about how do you move forward to be more competitive, but at the same time, how do you ensure that we're doing it in a thoughtful way so we're not like the rest of the world?

There's instability in the soccer world. Michelle Kang just had to take over a Premier League team.
Barcelona can't get into the market because they violated the rules. So we have stability.

Obviously, there's a delta between the lowest and the highest, but there's stability in the league. So I do think, Tim, that will make changes.

And I've given you a long answer, so I'll be more specific. There's two aspects of it.
What's the structure and the dynamic around how many designated players?

Do you have U22s, which I thought it brought in a ton of great players?

And then can you spend more money?

And we've got to figure that out. We need more media money.
The new Apple dynamic will help us there. The deal is shorter.

We'll have a better future, I think, with them or somebody else in the years to come. And we'll figure it out like we always do.

No, I appreciate the answer because I think the key component to that was the sustainability or is the sustainability, right?

Because I think when you're on the inside of this country and you look out, you see names. of leagues, you see names of teams, and you just think there's a boom there.

But quite frankly, there are some leagues who can't pay their players. Most.
Right. And so, and so where we are economically is in a good place.
So, that's that's a very fair point.

And I mean, I'm sorry to jump in, Landon, but fans shouldn't have to care about that,

right?

Fans who are thinking about their sports connection strategically, like many fans do. They're interested in the sports business and media has changed like the show.

Fans just want to root for teams and root for players. And we need to not

spend that much time thinking about

why is it so complicated. We've got to make the rules easier.
So fans just have to see their teams. I do think the rules are more complicated

than they need to be. We're going to change that.
We need more water cooler talk that the other leagues have. We need to have more discussion throughout a year.
The NFL is masters of that.

They own the year. Well, they didn't always.

So, you know, we need to think about that as we're going through some of these changes we're making. Okay, so I want to ask you,

and this is just, you can't take off your commissioner hat, but as someone who loves, has grown to love the sport and very much cares deeply about soccer in America, one of my problems with

the way rosters are built now is there are fewer and fewer American players playing. And so you talked about the, you referenced the U22 initiative.

I don't have the data on it in front of me, but that's a lot of foreign players.

And I'm concerned, I really am, Don, about how,

what the future looks like. And tied to it is a bunch of players also leaving.
Right.

And so how do you in your American players or yeah, I mean, even, I mean, look, there's always, there are always, not always, for the foreseeable future, there will be players leaving to go to Europe because people grow up with, in some cases, I think it's bullshit, this idea of like Europe, Europe, Europe.

What does that mean? But that will always be the case. But how do we keep more players here?

And then how do we, and this is longer question about development, but how do we incentivize clubs to play Americans, invest in Americans?

Do you have to implement a minimum minutes like they do in other parts of the world? How do you view that personally? And then from a league perspective? Yeah, you know, it's a great.

It's a great question because there is a personal aspect to it. There's a fiduciary aspect to it.
I'm the longest standing member of an MA,

an NGB national governing body in the world. I've been on the board of U.S.
soccer for 26 years. Sorry to hear that.
They haven't kicked me. It comes with the job.

Jessica Berman, if she's in the job for 20 years, will be on the board too. So I've seen it landing from the beginning 25 years ago to where it is today.

And it'll be an interesting conversation to talk about, the Federation. So with my U.S.
soccer hat,

the only time I can truly root and be a fan, and I'm a nervous fan.

That's why I could never work for a team, is when I'm wearing my crest and I'm watching the national team.

And I want our national team to be great and lift up the sport with all of the energy that they've been able to do when they're successful. And you guys have seen that.

I think it's a gift and an honor in an unprecedented way to wear a flag

a crest on your skin and represent your country. You know, I'm going to go to the Winter Olympics.
I barely ever missed an Olympic. I'm a fan of international competition.

At the same time, we have to have a sport and a league that is really popular, and we're competing against the rest of the global football community.

So fans who say, oh, I don't watch MLS, I watch the Premier League, they're not watching it because they're English players on the field. It's because the quality of play and

the energy and the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat in the product is what inspires them. That's why they have a bigger media deal than we do.

That's why the Champions League has a huge media deal and has great on-air people. That is a moment to stop and pay attention.
So there is a friction and a conflict between those two things.

You might remember, Landon, then in 02, we had the MLS strike force.

And you might remember me and you meeting back in the day. And Tim, you and the national team was so intrinsically connected to the league.
And we would work together.

Sunil was the president, and we'd sit down with Jürgen and with Bruce and Bob, and we'd talk about ways in which we could work together.

That's happening less now, not in a negative way, because I don't know that we're as dependent on each other as we used to be.

The second aspect, and there are actually fewer Americans leaving at the top level than there were back in the day, because we could now pay them. You know,

Zimmerman is making DP money, whether he's American or not. He's got a good contract.
And

that wasn't something we were able to do back in the day. The designated players were primarily international players.
You guys were exceptions to that.

So I'll get to the second question, which is minutes. Mexico tried it.
They changed it. It didn't work.

I could remember meeting with coaches back in the day. I won't name them, but you can imagine who they are.

And they're saying, hey, if my job is tied to security is tied to how many American players I'll play, I'm all in. But if I'm getting fired because I don't make the playoffs, I'm out.

So

I think the answer to it, and I'm a big fan of what Cindy and J.T. Batson have done, they have turned that Federation into a powerhouse.
I agree.

Riding the wave of the World Cup commercially, philanthropically, signing Mauricio, who's the biggest MLS fan I think we've ever had, believes in our league more than I think any coach has.

And I'll get criticized for that, I'm sure, on social media from those guys who might think I'm talking about them. So there's a great dynamic.
JT is now running this program of the U.S.

Way and how can we continue the development pyramid with MLS Next and our academies at the top.

If there's a way for us all to get together and figure out how to solve this problem, I'm into looking into it. I was reminded at the game, no American national team eligible players on Miami.

And I think we had three or maybe four on Vancouver.

So I don't know that that is a positive,

but wearing the hat I wear, commissioner hat and national team supporter. But we'll announce today the best ratings we've ever had.
It was an incredible game. It had global energy.

We had Leo lifting a trophy. We had Thomas Mueller clapping his hands.
Sebastian Burlholter was a storyline. So

that's why these jobs aren't easy. Throw all those haters out there.
I remember I was telling these guys earlier. I sat in your office, I don't know how many years ago, and you looked at me.

It was the first time this really hit me. And you said, Landon.

This job is really fucking hard. And I was like, yeah, I guess it kind of is.
So yeah, that's the nuance behind all this.

I just, it, I struggle with the idea of so few Americans, prominent Americans playing in the league. And as I listen to you speak, it's a much bigger discussion about really about youth development.

Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a whole nother can of work.

Another point, the Generation Adidas project, where you get salary budget relief for signing a player that comes out of your academy, those are all American players.

So, you know, throw this out. Maybe we have a Generation Adidas 2.0 where there's a fund and we get Bank of America or big U.S.

soccer sponsor that's looking at getting involved with JT and Cindy on development. And maybe there's a subsidy.
So you get an American player and maybe there's a bonus.

I mean, there are things to do. What's great about where we are now is we could start thinking about things that are about strategic opportunity

and not spend all of our time thinking about, like, are we going to make it? Survival. Yeah, we made it.
Yeah, yeah.

Now the question is, how much have we made it? And what's the next goal? Right.

But as you said, that's part of the difficulty of your job: not standing still, not resting on things we've done in the past, but how to make a successful product even more successful.

All right, this is awesome. Commissioner, please stay right there.
We will be right back.

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I know you wanted to tap into promotional relegation. Yeah, so

promotional relegation. So there are a lot of pieces of this, right? And this ties into the USL piece.
And it's been an interesting relationship over the years, USL and MLS.

One time you were almost partners or supporting each other. Seems like that has subsided.
They've made a clear intention to bring promotion relegation in. Alan Rothenberg last week,

I don't know if you saw, you have too much going on, but I wanted to make a comment on it. Well, he was asked about it.
I think he was doing an interview, and he said, it's inevitable.

He said, it's not necessarily imminent, but it's inevitable. And

we look at it, we talk about this a lot.

Who in their right mind, one of your 30 owners, would sign up for this, right? Having seen what other owners around the world suffer through, right, through promotion and relegation.

Where are you at it? On it?

As a first of all, always, you know, without your commissioner hat, but then your, your obligation is to your owners. And do any of the owners also curiously say, yeah, let's go for it.
No, right?

They would push our league. Not why.
I mean, you raise it. Why would they?

Let me take this. And, you know, I get asked this a lot.
You never get an opportunity in a media scrum to get into detail, which is what the beauty of this format is.

And I think that's why so many people are engaging in your show. You can talk about things thoughtfully and push back and forth.

When you're building, you know, the league is still a startup and it's still a startup, which is why the jobs that all of us have are hard because you're 30 years into a startup and who does that?

It's almost like

you're a venture capital CEO. That doesn't last.
very long. You get rid of those guys and they say thanks a lot.
And they bring in a proper person to run the company.

We have had to raise billions and billions and billions of dollars to support the growth of this league in infrastructure and training grounds and development and academies and stadiums, in roster development, in marketing and staffing.

We've got 10,000 employees league-wide. 10,000 guys.
Think about that. That's, I mean, that, we should all feel really good about that.

And if somebody is investing that, it's because they see an economic return. They're not philanthropists.
They're industrialists and they're visionaries and love the game. They all love the game.

You guys know that. You know, most of our owners.
And if you, then you have to go out and you got to finance three stadiums coming on.

There'll be almost $2 billion of, actually, more than $2 billion of investment.

Nobody's writing $2 billion checks, guys. We live in a capitalist society with debt and debt guarantees.
And those are guarantees by revenue.

And we don't have enough revenue anyway. So if you go into a dynamic where all of a sudden that revenue goes away, you're going out of business.
And that's the reality, commissioner or otherwise.

I think think that there is a beauty of this idea of the competition at the bottom. But remember, they also have the competition for the European Europa League.

They have the competition for the Champions League. They have the competition for their version of the league championship, the supporter shield.
And that dynamic doesn't yet exist.

It's beginning to with the Champions League announcement just came out with CONCACAF.

But life is about... opportunity and capturing that opportunity with change.
And if you don't do that, it's like the shark.

You know, you see a lot of nasty sharks because they're always swimming, going after their prey. You're not seeing a lot of dead sharks because if they stop moving, they die.

So I don't know what it looks like. I made a comment the other day.
Maybe.

We'll see.

Maybe on promotion relegation. I mean, who knows? I mean, Alan's comment is probably the right one.

I don't know what the world is going to look like three years, five years or 10 or 20 years from now. So why say never? Right.

Let me talk about the USL because that is a buzz and there's a lot that's been going on the last couple of days or weeks.

You know, I have enormous respect for people that have been committed to building the sport in this country.

Whether it's the founders like Alan and Sunil, whether it's the new leaders like Cindy and JT, Alec Papadakis has been doing this for generations.

That guy is run silent, run deep, doesn't get a lot of press. Nobody even knows who he is.

But Alec's done a great job. And yes, and Francisco Marcos before him.
We've been in the early days trying to launch what is the equivalent of a reserve league. USL was launching their league.

We came together. They said, we're not really that interested in being having your teams have a reserve league.
Well, we're trying to build a proper minor league. We said, great.

We went out and launched our own league. Now we have independent owners, soon to be seven of them.
One just announced in Long Island, one of the wealthiest guys in Long Island building a stadium.

Was it Tim Howard?

He's one of the wealthiest guys in Long Island. No, no.

That's funny. Probably is.
But anyway,

I think there's going to be either more collaboration, that would be good. If there's less collaboration, probably not good.

But I've learned over this time, keep moving forward, be smart and thoughtful. Don't sort of constantly look over your shoulder out of fear.
Look out of shoulder out of awareness.

What's happening so that we could think about how to get ourselves in the right spot. Fans determine who they're going to support,

not leagues. Fans determine that.
And fans are supporting major league soccer. We have 12 million fans come through our games.
We have record revenue, record ratings.

I don't worry about anything that anybody else is doing, but who knows? There's a big opportunity here. We'll see.
Yeah. I mean,

I've been open and outward in saying I'm against promotion relegation in this country.

And I think it's because, and I don't say that as an owner or investor, or I don't say it in any sort of way to slant the conversation other than I live that life for so long in England and it's great,

but it's great for the top stories. What people don't see is that some of these teams go away.
Some of these teams get relegated, never to be seen again. And that's very dangerous.

And the other point that I try and make to people when I have the conversation, because I'm happy to have the debate about it,

when you go to England, and our country is just different, these communities are so small. So the club, and you talked about 10,000 employees league wide, these clubs are so small that

whether they're in the Premier League or the Championship or League One,

that drives a community economically. So that's jobs, that's tickets, all of those things because the community is so small.

If you get relegated in New York, there's a thousand other things you can do to pay your bill, right? So

when a club gets relegated in England,

as an example, that surrounding neighborhood is still funded economically by the club. And so it never just goes away.
But there are some teams that freefall.

And I think people get so excited about the promotion relegation battle, which is fun, but they lose sight of the facts. And the facts are economically teams get punished.

That's not their job. Their job is to be fans.
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

But, you know, listen, guys, there's no way I'm raising money to build a stadium in Indianapolis, which is an expansion market.

If Indianapolis has a bad four years and they're playing now in another league, whether that's the USL or Robin.

You know, it's just not happening from a realistic perspective. But I remember you guys both know Mark Abbott, who, along with Alan, founded the league.

And Mark is this brilliant guy and he's now a professor down in Georgetown. And, you know, he would say to me, it always amazed me that people would say soccer in America would never make it.

So what do they know that we don't know? Because nobody knows when that's going to happen. Sure.
So that's why I look at all this stuff. Did I ever think we'd ever have an international calendar?

Zero chance. I thought that was happening three years ago.

Here we are. So you never, you never know, Landon.
Let's let's see how it develops. And I have a lot of respect for Alec, a lot of respect for Paul McDonough, who's come in, left a team job.

He's running a league. Manda's running there.
Amanda Vandervoort, XMLS employee, running their women's league. You know, I'm not saying this to be pollyatic and to be political.

Everybody, I get a lot of blame and credit for what's happening. At the end of the day, there's legions of people that have been working building the the sport.

And sometimes things, you know, don't go the right way. We went through that in San Diego, but man, you just got to keep moving.
Totally.

Yeah, I want to touch on the calendar because you've mentioned it a couple of times. I think it's important.

As the calendar shifts,

what are, we know that there's going to be some getting used to. Shifting the calendar was the only right thing to do.
I think it's going to be great for the league.

Where are, what's the temperature, no pun intended, of like the northern, the northern ownership groups, right? Like there's going to be some real sort of

geographic disadvantages.

How have those conversations gone? This was the most difficult thing that we as a league

took on as a task. Really? And the most complicated thing to get over the line.
Interesting.

And in order to do that, we needed to go through a very inclusive process that included, obviously, the northern teams and there are, you know, at least eight of them.

It speaks to the quality of owners. Remember, you guys were around.
The league was so much smaller. And you're around the newer teams.
You see those games. You've met those owners.

They're thinking about the future of MLS the way Phil Anchutz and Robert Kraft and Arthur Blank and

Lamar Hunt thought about it back in the old days.

And they're willing almost unanimously to make decisions that might impact them negatively in the short term because long term, which is what sports investment is, they believe it'll be right.

Saturday was the best example. We had to play our game at 2.30 in the afternoon because we had a Fox window in our contract with Fox.

They get a simulcast, not even an exclusive window, of the cup with Apple.

And we had basketball games, you had the SEC championship, you had the Georgia game. I mean, How could any fans are not going to sit from 12 noon until 11 o'clock at night watching TV?

We're up against this time of the year, the NFL, every sport sport other than baseball. College sports are becoming way, way, way more popular and valuable.

We had to move our most valuable programming, our playoffs, away from the fall.

We had to align on the transfer window. You know, this is the soccer stuff, right? $300 million in incoming transfers this year, guys.
$300 million. Wow.
$200 million in outgoing transfers.

Half a billion dollars of economic movement to be part of the global transfer market. I mean, these are astounding numbers.

And yet a team has got to make a decision about transferring a player right before the playoffs. I know.
I mean, we had to

launch the league with the calendar we did, but it was not something we could do if you want to be a top league in the world. So owners had courage.
The northern owners struggled. I feel for them.

We'll have to manage the schedule so it has less impact. They're going to have to make changes to their stadiums with heated fields in markets where they're not.

And we're going to have to ask for support from our fans. If you're a fan in Minnesota, you love your team.
You love your league. They are.

When I see their singing their song at the end with their club, it brings tears to my eyes.

So we're saying, I hear you, but I hope and ask for you to understand that we're doing this because it'll make Minnesota United a better team in a better league.

Time for the unfiltered refresh, sponsored by Coors Light. Choose Chill.
Get Coors Light delivered. Go to CoorsLight.com/slash USLNT.
Okay, who chose Chill from this past week?

Well, it's quite literally MLS.

In our conversation with MLS Commissioner Don Garber, he expressed sympathy actually for some of the northern markets and the ownership groups in those northern market teams.

Because I think that's what everybody's sort of wondering with the counter switch. It's a good thing.
There are a lot of good things about it. In fact, it makes all the sense in the world.

With that decision comes the question of like, huh, there's going to be a lot of snow and a lot of cold weather

in the northern part of America for those teams. And there's a whole host of teams and there's some Canadian teams who will have to deal with weather.

I played in Denver and one of our opening games of the season was like a blizzard. So teams deal with that.
I think the crux of the conversation is essentially the winter break.

The winter break is going to go from,

let's say, mid-December to mid-February. The fact of the matter is, under the current sort of calendar, playoff teams play into December, right?

Like the post-season, MLS postseason runs into December. So now it'll just be every team that's playing.
So

it's not terrible. It's not terrible, but there are going to be, as the commissioner said, there's some ownership groups who kind of had to get on board, even if it was begrudgingly.

It's a long-term buy-in. It's definitely a long-term buy-in.
You have to have the foresight and the vision as an ownership group to think that this is good for the league ultimately.

Now, that being said, there's also going to be some investment from... some of the northern teams, heated pitches, which we see across Europe, right? You have to have

undersoil heating.

Retractable roofs, probably

a little bit more difficult, but some of these stadiums might have to invest in retractable roofs.

We've seen this play out in other leagues, certainly baseball with retractable roofs and in some markets. But look,

it's part of it. Again, as I started, and as commissioner said, this is a good thing for the league.
Across the board, it's a good thing. So

cheers to you, MLS, for literally choosing chill.

So this might be a dumb question because I don't really understand it. I try to understand all these things, but this one I can't figure out.
I understand

the why to some extent. So the Apple TV deal.

The impetus for the recent change now

would tell me that one or both sides are not happy with it or wanted to change it. What does the future hold for it? Because I'll just speak from my standpoint.
I love the league.

I consume the league. I watch the league.
I already had Apple TV. Now I'm paying more previously.
And I can see why that's a challenge for people. Right.
And so

just walk us through the whole dynamic of it because I'm also trying to figure out, you know, now it's, I think, for 28 or 29, there's an option, or it ends now theoretically.

So walk us through all this. And again,

I don't know how interested, you know, I don't know

the dynamic with your viewers and whether these things really the there's a pretty wide spectrum, but some people are some people like

sausage making that goes into media, right? Media is the driver of

it, it's the DNA of pro sports.

You're following what's going on with the French League, where they lost their media deal, and the Syria with challenges, and the Bundesliga with challenges with their domestic deals here and their international deals here.

If you don't have proper media, you can't support the underpinnings of pro sports.

We have a dramatically smaller percentage of our revenue coming to our teams from the league than any other league that is a major league, the top five in Europe and the top four leagues here in the United States, the North American domestic leagues.

We have to change that. And how do you change that? A, we're in a more competitive environment.
There's more soccer on TV here than any other country in the world.

So we're competing not against not just the NFL, the NBA, and everybody else, but we're competing against the Premier League and everyone that's selling their rights here. So we have to fix that.

The only way to fix that is to have a more popular league that more people will become fans of, watch our games, so media partners will pay more.

And we got to fix that is the single biggest and most important priority we have over the next period of time in MLS, say the next 10 years.

When you take a look at the media dynamic, you guys remember when you guys, when you were in Denver and you were in New York and you were in LA and San Jose, every MLS game was broadcast on local TV.

And then you had a national deal with the SPN, with Univision and Fox most recently. Those local games, we had 500 local games and 100 national games.

We couldn't come up with a way to solve the 500 because local television was almost cratering. And you guys follow this as people in the business.

There is no market today that the leagues can lean into in local television.

So the first thing we wanted to do is to put it all together. And by putting it all together, it gave us the opportunity to have a global package.

And there's only one or two companies that do that then. Apple.
By the way, Amazon had not yet. been leaning in like that.
Netflix probably had. Netflix was not in the sports business.

I mean, we were not at the best time to go out to the market. That is what it is.
A lot of changes and disruption from then till now.

Apple and we met, you know, meeting with Tim Cook and meeting with Eddie Q, and they said, we think that there is a market for one package globally.

You pick up your phone, whether it's an iPhone or whether it's an Android phone, you press a button in St. Petersburg,

in St. Petersburg, Florida, St.
Petersburg, Russia, New York, Rio, wherever it might be. And that exists.
In order to do that, they needed and believe they needed to be a subscription.

Think of Sunday ticket globally. To be able to sustain it financially.
Support it financially. Yeah.
Right.

And I think there's been minimal talk about the changes or because people were not pleased. The changes because you're always trying to do better.

And I really mean that. I'm not being

defensive in any way, Land. It's no different than all the changes we've talked about in the last 45 minutes.

We looked at the subscription ratings, and then when we had games on Apple TV Plus, then the ratings went up. So it doesn't take a brain surgeon.

Well, why don't we move from the subscription to Apple TV and just figure out a way to make that work economically? The term was we had a partnership with Apple. We were partners.

If we hit certain numbers, we shared revenue. Once you get rid of the subscription, you're not sharing revenue anymore.

So we were able to negotiate something that made sense for them, made sense for us. You changed the deal.
Our cup was on Apple TV.

We had 700,000 on average watching the MLS playoffs at Apple TV. Those are real numbers, guys, way more than we had even on Linear when we were on ESPN and on Fox One.

So, you know, I think it's going to be a great deal. I love the technology.
Apple, they're a badass company, Land.

You know, we, the first three weeks, everybody's saying, I don't want to watch 12 games at once. Within a week, they came up with the multicast that now everybody has.

All of the technology, we had iPhones shooting games. We're going to shoot a game with all iPhones, I hope, sometime next year.

It was awesome. I mean, you looked up, and you guys with like iPhone cameras, they're

smart, they love sport, they just did an F1 deal, they've got a baseball deal. The future with them is bright.
Surely, you're optimistic. Very optimistic.
Okay, very great.

The, you know, a couple more, and we obviously appreciate your time. I'll get you out of here, back into the New York cold.

But when we look ahead to the summer, right, you talked about how intrinsically linked the national team and the Federation and the MLS is and not needing to necessarily lean on one another as much anymore.

But

what does it look like for MLS coming out of the World Cup to capitalize on that momentum? Because

it's always a big deal. You know, I want to start, and you guys remember this and you were helpful.

You know, I was part, one of the co-chairs of the World Cup bid in 2010 to bring the World Cup here in 22

and was super disappointed when they pulled out a different country.

And then I thought the World Cup in Carter was fantastic. You know, they delivered.

It was a great event. So again, another thing about learning, your preconceived conceptions about the way things are

aren't always right. And the people who think they are like, I don't like hanging out with those people, right? I want to have people who have an open mind about everything.

The fuel that's driving the the entire ecosystem here with the World Cup is going to be awesome for all of us. I think U.S.
soccer is going to benefit the most,

as they should. It's their national team.
They're responsible for the whole pyramid. I hope the energy filters down from all of these cities in the three countries and helps build the sport.

We need to figure out how do we get a bump. All the research we've done back to Germany, there's a 10 to 12 to 15% bump in ticketing attendance in leagues after the World Cup.

So we're going to get a bump just because we're going to have more fans. But that's easy.
You don't have to do anything to get that.

It's the ad campaign that we'll soon launch that will talk about what MLS is for all those new fans.

It's the viewing parties that FIFA has allowed us to do in our markets and our non-World Cup markets, which is unprecedented. I remember trying to do

viewing parties back in Korea and Japan and Brazil. And, you know, FIFA was thinking differently then.
Now they want to create more energy. That's great.

It's going to be the hospitality that MLS is running with on location. So anybody who really needs a suite or needs house, they got to come to us.
The data from that is really important to us.

It's the engagement we're going to have with FIFA on all of the people that are coming in and how do we ensure that we could talk to them.

you know, tell the story about the American dream and the Canadian dream with soccer. It's all those things, Tim.

But

I want to go back to, you know, U.S. soccer has checked every box with what they're doing, and now they got to deliver on the field, right?

And that's something, as you all know, draws matter, luck matters, injuries matter, and I don't want to be dependent on that. You know, I want us to be able to do the work that we need to do.

to capture, you know, fuel the energy without having to worry about whether if they lose to Paraguay or Australia, whoever that third team European team is, that's the end as we know it

i don't think it will be well i think the league's in a place now where it's going to be okay yeah um all right last question and we'll let you go so just listening to you speak today and you've been very gracious with your time

you sound to me i could be wrong

like someone who is

way more candid you've always been very candid which tells me almost like a politician at the end of their term.

It tells me you're getting close to where you say, you know what, it's probably time.

And so I think your contract is up next year. 27.
27.

So is that true? Does that, is that you sound like you're much more willing to just be forthcoming. And

is that the case? And if not, you know, how much longer do you see yourself doing this? You know, it's a, I told you, I try not to look back, right? I'm looking back a little more.

You know, I have this curse, and I think business builders all have this gene, which is if you think that you cracked the code and things are going well, then you get complacent and you get lazy and you lose the edge.

And you know, as players, right? I mean, I've lived with you guys growing up. You know, everybody loses it at a different time, but when you lose that edge, you toast.

I think the comment about being more casual, Landon, and I thought about that more recently. I think I'm more comfortable now than I was back in the day.

You know, Doug Logan, who was the first commissioner, he said to me, you know, I've been in this job for almost three years and I could have gotten a degree and been the captain of a nuclear sub.

And in my three years, nobody will ever respect me as a soccer guy.

I said, what does that mean? He said, you'll see.

When I got into the job, Kevin Payne, rest in peace, we all remember him, said, you know, you're going to be the board member for U.S. soccer.
I had no idea what he was even talking about.

And you should give that to me because you're not going to know what the hell to do. And then I went to Sunil Galati and said, what's happening here? I remember my first U.S.

soccer board meetings for years, Landon. I was very uncomfortable because I didn't feel like I had any credibility to talk about the game.

I remember, you know, meeting players and, you know, somebody would put me aside,

that's the most famous and successful player of all time. And, you know, and I wouldn't barely know who they were.

26 years in a 68-year life is a, is a long shift, as we say. It's a long contract.
So I feel like I know the game more. I used to go to these FIFA meetings and it was like I joke here.

I would be that guy in Animal House. They'd stick you in the room with the countries that you can't even pronounce.
And now

when FIFA is coming in and they're having these events, I'm sitting almost at the head table. When I was at the Club World Cup draw, I was sitting next to Matthias Galstrom, you know,

no different than Nasser al-Khalifi, you know, who runs PSG. And I didn't ask for that.

I think I earned it.

You know, that's time, it's energy, it's respect, it's

deliverables. So when I do press conferences now, you know, Dan Cornemann, who you guys know, he's been my comms guy for 25 years.
I don't need need speaking points. You know, I got it.

I feel like I understand

where we are and I don't have to wear a suit to work every day. I used to suit up and I used to feel like everybody was judging me.

That's not happening anymore. But I also didn't do it for that reason.
It happened and I'm thankful and blessed that it did.

I think the league is entering the next most important phase for Major League Soccer's history.

And it needs to have new thinking. That new thinking is being driven by new owners today.
They're the loudest voices in the room, but when Phil Andrews speaks, it's like that E.F. Hunting ad.

People listen.

But most of the discussion is happening with the new guys. And they've earned that.
They've invested a lot and they're delivering a lot.

So there's no succession plan in the league for anyone.

That was a mistake on my part. That's because we're too busy.

Our chief commercial officer, Gary Stevenson, who I think is the best chief revenue officer and sports marketing guy in the business, is leaving MLS at the end of 26.

I have no proper succession plan for him. Our president, Joanne Neal, who you guys have met, she's been in the job for 26 years.
There's no succession plan for her.

When Mark Abbott left, we had no succession plan for him. Todd Durbin's been in the job running sporting for 25 years, Nelson Rodriguez longer.

And when you're running a startup, you got to take a step back and say, well, that's not good.

Disney wouldn't allow that. General Electric wouldn't allow that.
So the owners are creating a proper succession process, including a succession process for me.

I haven't, I've got a contract that ends at the end of 27. I haven't made a decision as to what I'm going to do there, but it wouldn't be the wrong time to take a step back and hand what I hope

they would look at and say, thanks, you know, I'm ready.

And we'll see. You know, it's two years and

a month away. Sure.
That's a lifetime in MLS. That's almost 10% of my time.

Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you have damn sure earned that respect. And we are thankful and honored to be with you,

to call you a friend of ours and of the show. And

just the time that you've given us and our viewers is priceless. So I will, you and I will hopefully go fishing this summer

in our spot. I'm looking forward to going on the boat.
Um, but beyond that, there's so much more work to do. So, this is incredible.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you guys.

I mean, from the bottom of my heart, and to fans, you know, our job is to deliver for you. I hope we've been able to do that.
Uh, but I appreciate you guys. At that point, Don, last thing I'll say is

I know you get a lot of shit. And

go back to what you said, like, this is a really hard job. People, the like myopic

lens that people look through and say, well, why don't we have this? Or why can't we have this? Or why can't I start up a club in Hartford and it get promoted?

This stuff is so hard. And looking back, what you have done over 26 years is phenomenal.
People ask us all the time, why isn't soccer this? Why didn't you win a World Cup?

And I'm like, guys, it's been 25 or 30 years. Like, that's it.
Right. And so, anyway, we appreciate it.
We're very grateful. Whether you stay two years or 10 years, up to you.
But thanks for that.

Can I be the third seat on the show?

Don't leave. Don't say that because you're in.
We can't afford you, unfortunately.

I'll do it for free.

Oh, you get that on camera. Listen,

we'll have you anytime you want for free too, Paul. We'll have it anytime you want.
All right. Thank you.
And I bet you I could generate some sponsorship revenue. Yeah, you can.

The commissioner, thank you. Thank you, Don.
Thanks, guys. LD, fascinating stuff.
I mean, I'm blown away.

You know, every time, and I don't often feel this way, every time I'm in the commissioner's presence, you kind of, you're almost in awe of him. He has this, he's charismatic, he's honest, he's real.

I just think that I love it. When we're, when we're in the public setting, oftentimes, you have to be very buttoned up and very business-like.

When you get Don Garber one-on-one, he is incredible. He's absolutely incredible.
I know we have histories with him and we've helped grow this league together. I get all that.

But man, some of the in-depth analysis and thoughtfulness really is really impressive.

What impressed me is at all these MLS functions I've been at, all-star games, finals, meetings, whatever over the years in his office, he spoke to us today the way he would speak is if you're in a private setting.

And it's what I said at the end, like he feels like he's proud of what he's done. And he had to be a little more defensive in the past and he's really fighting hard for this league all the time.

But man, he was candid and he was real. And there was just, there were so many things that he actually shifted my mindset on, of course.
I was like, wow, yeah, I guess you're right.

I never thought of it that way. Right.
It was really incredible. All right.
We have to take a break. We will be right back right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen.

This episode is brought to you by Airbnb.

All right, Tim, between your work, your your daughter, your son, or maybe just your own enjoyment, how much traveling do you think you've done to see soccer this year?

Honestly, I've lost track at this point.

You know, just this summer alone, I was all over the place.

But it is, it's a beautiful thing to see how many soccer fans and how soccer has been embraced no matter where we go. Yeah, I mean, I was just in Austin.
I'll be traveling to New York.

Everywhere I go, I meet fans. Whether I'm going to see a game myself or just on vacation, I see people everywhere.
I hear stories.

I hear stories about their pilgrimage to Everton to go watch a game, to go see the new stadium, to go see their favorite team.

They get immersed in the chants, the songs, that incredible feeling of seeing the game up close and personal. Well, I mean, I think that's where the game has changed.

These trips have become a big deal for soccer fans. And this summer is going to be no different as we'll see the soccer community make their way to 11 host cities here in the U.S.

to support their favorite national team. It's going to be incredible.
I can't wait for it. And what if those fans could turn their homes into an opportunity while they're away at the game?

Hosting your home on Airbnb while you travel is is an easy way to earn a little bit of extra cash. Maybe go towards tickets for your game that you want to go to.
We know they're not cheap.

Or maybe to help your kids pursue their soccer dreams. Yeah, your home might be worth more than you think.
So find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

All right, Tim, it is holiday season and boy, do I need to choose chill sometimes. Thanksgiving's an interesting one for me.
I go with the in-laws to a hotel. It's nice.

Most of them I like. Some of them are a bit challenging.
Sometimes I got to walk outside, grab a Coors Light, choose chill.

Christmas is fun. I enjoy it.
I love it. All the things that come with it, but the kids are home for two weeks and that is brutal sometimes.

So sometimes turn on the hot tub, go out in the jacuzzi, watch a football game, grab a Coors Light and chill. Yeah, you're right.
It's all, it's always about family around the holidays.

And of course, big family meals. Every time I finish eating, I'm out back.
I get around the fire.

I reach in the cooler, grab a cold Coors light and choose chill because, as you mentioned, it's hectic. And then at some point, someone calls me inside to play spoons or card games.

And so I'm having a Coors Light, choosing chill. When you embrace a chill mindset this holiday, it's a good time to choose chill and crack open a Coors Light.

Choose Chill this holiday season and then reach for a Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door.

Visit CoorsLight.com slash USLNT, or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly.
Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado.

There's nothing better than feeling like someone has your back and that things are going to get done even without you having to ask.

Like your crisp new jersey waiting for you in the locker room or a perfectly set up wall for a free kick.

Yeah, as we on Unfiltered Soccer get ready for next summer, we know that very little in the beautiful game is guaranteed.

But as we prepare to bring our Unfiltered brand of non-stop soccer coverage, it's good to know ATT has your back with the ATT guarantee. Staying connected matters.

That's why in the rare event of a network outage, ATT will proactively credit you for a a full day of service. That's the ATT guarantee.
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It's time for the fan connection presented by ATT. Every week, we invite you, the listener, to connect with us by submitting your questions.
At ATT, connecting changes everything.

And on USLNT, our connections with you will help grow the game. It's time now for the ATT Fan Connection, everybody's favorite time of the week.
Welcome in, Jordan. And guess what? You just get me.

Sorry for it. Deal with it.

Yeah, Landon wasn't able to be here with us this week, but he'll be back in two weeks.

It's all about me anyway. Give me, give me all, give me all the smoke, give me the questions.
I'm ready for it. Let's rock.

Um, before we do that, can we talk about the shirt that I'm wearing right now? That's kind of dope. What is that? It is a shark to push.

Who and what is shark to push? Okay, so we heard this story back in like October about a team called Sharktopus FC, who were facing another team.

They're a like a Seattle Pacific Northwest area team, facing another team called Bellevue Athletic. In, I think it's the second round qualifying match for the U.S.
Open Cup.

And the referee that night used to play for Bellevue Athletic. And so Bellevue Athletic beat Shark to Puss.
It was a huge deal. They went to U.S.

soccer and were like, how are you allowing this to happen? Blah, blah, blah. They replayed the game and Sharktapus beat them in the replay.
That's what happens. I love a good soccer story.

You know, also during, during, um, during our production, you had that on and it was like someone who's like heavily tattooed and then has also a very detailed shirt.

Like, I've seen that before, like on the street. It's too much going on.
Where does it start and stop? What is that? It's amazing. Maybe I need like some octopus legs tattooed on me.

I have one. I think I have like one on my back shoulder.
Do you get to a point with tattoos where you're like, I don't know?

It might be. Oh, 100%.

I was having a conversation, and this happened like twice recently, where I was like, oh, I have that. It was like a spider web or something.
I have that tattoo. And they're like, where? And I'm like,

not 100% sure. Like, it's maybe over here.
I couldn't remember exactly where it was. It's just a lot of tattoos.

Let's get into some questions. Yes.

Okay. So, this first question is from Mark via email.
Now that the World Cup is almost here, I've noticed an uptick in people complaining about us Americans using the term soccer instead of football.

I've never understood why people care so much what we call it. The Brits seem to give us the most grief, but why? They say lorry, we say truck, we say elevator, they say lift.

We're two different countries. Why shouldn't we say things differently? I don't really blame the Brits so much as they like to quote unquote take the piss.

But what drives me crazy are the Americans who buy into this nonsense. Why do you think Americans care what Brits think? It's a great question.

Because we're, you know, we're,

we've always been.

been seen as trying to gain be more knowledgeable about the game, right?

We haven't had it as long as the Brits or other countries. And so we're trying to keep up with the Joneses, so to speak.
Look,

here's my thought. I don't care, nor should you.
The way that I operate is

I lived in Manchester for 13 years and I only ever said football. But then when I would hop on a plane and come back here or do an interview with the U.S.
publication, I say the word soccer.

I say it every day.

That's all I talk about is soccer or football. And just given, I could have 10 conversations about, about the game in a given day.
And I just flip back and forth between using the term.

It doesn't matter. That's the answer.
It doesn't matter. If you want to say soccer, say it.
If you want to say football, say it.

If you want to use the same, the same term differently in the same conversation, do it. Doesn't matter.

One of my favorite things about our particular group, Group D in the World Cup is that we'll be playing Australia, which is another country that's known for referring to it as soccer.

In fact, they're called the soccer Soccer Roos.

And

the captain of their team, Jackson Irvine, is also the captain of FC San Pauli, which we've talked about on this podcast as my Bundesliga team.

So we're not the only country in the world that calls it soccer.

We just, I don't know, I feel like sometimes people love to do the like American Revolutionary War, like us versus England is like still a beef. It's like, guys, that was 250 years ago.

I think we can. It was.

But also, also, the Australian accent is amazing. So they get away with it more.

Like if you're having a conversation with an American and they say soccer, it sounds totally different than having a conversation with an Australian who says soccer because the Aussie accent is just amazing.

Okay, this question is from Kevin via email. And as I mentioned on this podcast before, I love when people suggest how we can change the rules of soccer to make it better.

Here is my thought to make the beautiful game even more beautiful. You can't touch the opponent on corners until the ball is kicked.

How much time is wasted by refs separating players that are tussling and shoving while the ball is out of play?

It is such a pointless part of the game and doesn't lead to any better soccer being played.

So much bad blood between teams is formed during these wrestling matches while a guy stands in the corner waiting for the ref to say no more and then go right back to doing what they were doing before.

I don't think much would change for the viewer if the players just started a few feet apart rather than grappling for position. Once the ball is kicked, it's business as usual.

I don't hate it. I don't hate it, which is

a surprising reaction for me.

Um, I think it would,

which most people care about, I think it would give a massive advantage to the attacking team. So that could be a reason for doing it.
Um,

and I don't hate it. I don't hate it.
I could see it. I could see the

you have, you have to, I mean, no touching would be odd. It'd be really hard because you wouldn't, it would almost be like you wouldn't be able to stay with your, with your runner.

It would have to be some sort of contact. But

also trying to think, how do you police that? That's a VAR, VAR nightmare waiting to happen, right? Because

someone's going to touch, but I don't hate it. It's an interesting one.
Not one I had thought of.

So it feels, maybe I'm wrong about this, but it feels to me like that rule would require more rules on top of it in terms of like where your positioning would have to be in order to make that.

Because like you said, the attacking team would be, would have the advantage.

So you would have to, there would have to be like lines drawn about how far you could be as an attacking player, that kind of thing.

So I feel like it might, we might end up overcomplicating the situation. But I do, I do agree sometimes that like how much time we spend being like, all right, guys, you know.

Well, the other thing, the other interesting part that I just thought of is like, is like

the rule on top of the rule would be,

how do you fudge the rules? So if you're an attacker, you then, what's the penalty for being touched? So the, so the attacker would then lean into,

lean into the defender and create the contact and then say, I was touched. So then who's, I don't know.
It's an it's a really interesting question, one that I don't think will happen, but I hear you.

I hear you. Not bad.
I feel like when the seasons were starting, there were some rules that we were talking about about like time wasting from goalkeepers and different things. Like,

do you, do you ever feel like sometimes we spend a lot of time, especially in the jobs that we have, talking about these things, and then we don't necessarily see them come to fruit?

Like, I, I don't know, I don't find that I've noticed it has like dramatically changed the game, right? It's a real thing. Have you? It's a real thing.

What they'll do is at the beginning of every season or every couple of seasons, certainly before major tournaments, they'll implement a rule.

that the referees, I know it's their job because they're going to lose their job if they don't do what they're told. They go so heavy on these dumb rules.

And then it's like, oh my God, it's like time wasting. Blow, blow for an indirect free kick and all these rules.

And then slowly as things go on, you like get three, six months down the line, they actually become more lenient on it.

Like, so it's a real, like, it's, it's a real thing that it's, it's not like you're forgetting about it. It's just, it's like sort of dissipating, right? Like I remember

the fact you just said that and I cover the Premier League every week is, is amazing because I forgot that.

they're even counting like i don't even see the referees counting the goalkeepers anymore it was supposed to be like what they is like a five second countdown or something like you don't even see that anymore i just think it's they implement these rules to like be really stern and and and tell you what you can and can't do and then they just go away i also just think that like i don't know i have a lot of strong feelings about var and stuff like that but at the end of the day i have to as a fan like you have to trust the referee to a certain extent that they're making decisions for the benefit of the game right like not to hinder the game and that's why you know when fans are like that's a yellow and like all that kind of stuff, it's like, well, we have to make certain decisions so that we don't just completely bring, like grind the game to a halt, right?

The one I do like, I'll say, I don't know if you heard this. I believe that FIFA is implementing VAR checks for goal kicks and corner kicks in the World Cup.

And the reason I'm in favor of this is because I've always basically said, like, you can review everything essentially leading up to a goal, handball, off-site, all these things, right?

Are you interfering with the goalkeeper's line of vision?

But if a, if a, if a linesman and a referee blatantly, we've seen this happen a couple of times recently, blatantly get a call wrong and give a corner and you score from that corner, it's like, that was literally the last touch of the ball before it, second to last touch of the ball before it went in the goal.

You got it wrong, and we've been punished because you can't go back and look at it. So I do like that.

And in a lot of cases, Jordan, it's super obvious. Like when the ball goes off

a player and it should be a goal kick, it's like super obvious. It's not like, it's not like, ooh, did it touch his toe? Like, it's normally they just blatantly miss it.

So I think that'll be actually good at the World Cup. My favorite thing that has changed recently in the Premier League specifically is them explaining via like a,

you know,

an announcement of what the ruling actually was. I totally love that.

It's

definitely got an NFL feel to it a little bit, but I feel like everybody needs to be on the same page. Why do we make the ruling? And this is what we're doing.
Well, they do it in NBA.

They do it in rugby. They do it in

NFL. I think they might even do it in baseball now.
I think they might do it in hockey. So, like, I'm okay with it.

Most of the Brits aren't, but they're never happy with any real change. Those football fans, you know, crazy football fans.

Okay. Well, just as a reminder to everybody, if you would like to have your question featured on Unfiltered Soccer, you should email me again politely, feedback at unfilteredsoccer.com.

Send us lots of questions over the course of the next two weeks, because in two weeks, we'll be back with the Unfilty Awards. And we always do an extended mailbag.

So please send more of your truly wild suggestions for how to make soccer better. I love those.
So

right, Tim. Thanks.

Appreciate you. And appreciate you all for being with us.
A special thank you, really special thank you for MLS Commissioner Don Garber for joining us. So so many incredible insights and memories.

It was just a lot of fun to share this space with him.

So remember to subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show across all social media platforms at Unfiltered Soccer for more bonus content.

Thank you to our presenting sponsor VW. Our fan connection sponsor, AT ⁇ T, our Unfiltered Refresh sponsor, Coors Light.
And of course, our additional sponsors, Cafe Bustello and Airbnb.

Have an amazing week. No episode next week.
Hope everyone has a happy holidays, and that we'll be back with you in two weeks with the 2025 Unfilty Awards. See you then.