Ashley Loring Heavyrunner: Payne Tells All

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Speaker 5 We have some incredible news to share.

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Speaker 2 Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder.

Speaker 2 The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 11 Crestone, Colorado introduced us to mysteries. Browning, Montana revealed a crisis.

Speaker 11 This season, Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team turned their attention to a story far bigger than just one person's disappearance.

Speaker 11 At its heart is Ashley Loring Heavy Runner, a 20-year-old Indigenous woman who vanished in June of 2017 from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation.

Speaker 11 But Ashley's story is more than a missing person's case. It's emblematic of a national crisis.
The epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women, or MMIW.

Speaker 11 Ashley's case doesn't just highlight the pain of one family. It exposes a system of silence, distrust, and neglect that has allowed these stories to remain hidden for far too long.

Speaker 11 This is her story, and the story of the people who refuse to let let her be forgotten.

Speaker 11 To understand Ashley's disappearance, we have to start with who she was. To her family, Ashley wasn't just a sister or a daughter.
She was their light.

Speaker 11 Her sister Kimberly described her as someone who could brighten the darkest days with just a laugh.

Speaker 12 But she had the most beautiful smile.

Speaker 12 She was a very caring person.

Speaker 12 Just had this big heart for everything.

Speaker 11 Ashley grew up on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation just 40 miles from the Canadian border.

Speaker 11 Life on the reservation wasn't always easy, but Ashley faced those challenges with a resilience and warmth that endeared her to everyone who knew her.

Speaker 11 But like many Indigenous women, Ashley's life wasn't without struggles.

Speaker 11 And in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, something changed. She started acting differently.
More distant, more anxious. And her family couldn't quite put their finger on why.

Speaker 13 From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay.

Speaker 11 The timeline of Ashley's disappearance begins on June 5th, 2017. That night, she visited her father's house in Browning.

Speaker 11 She seemed paranoid, closing all the blinds and telling her father not to look outside when a car pulled up.

Speaker 11 I did something, she told him, but she wouldn't explain what.

Speaker 11 And then she was gone.

Speaker 11 That same night, Ashley was reportedly seen at a party hosted by Vernon Wagner.

Speaker 11 There were multiple witnesses who claimed she was there, and even a video posted on Facebook that showed her sitting on a couch.

Speaker 11 But by the time Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team began their investigation, That video had disappeared.

Speaker 11 The next day, June 6th, Kimberly messaged Ashley on Facebook. Are you okay? She asked.
Ashley replied, always.

Speaker 11 But something about the response felt off.

Speaker 11 Kimberly could sense it, even then.

Speaker 12 I don't know where she was at the time. I don't know where she was at.

Speaker 12 I believe wherever she was held a key.

Speaker 11 When Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team arrived in Browning, they faced an uphill battle.

Speaker 11 Distrust of outsiders, outsiders, years of secrecy, and a fractured system of law enforcement created walls at every turn. But piece by piece, they began reconstructing Ashley's final days.

Speaker 11 One key location kept coming up in interviews. Big Al's house, known as a party spot on the outskirts of town.
Witnesses claimed Ashley had been there the morning after the party at Vernon's.

Speaker 11 She told me she didn't want to be there, one witness said, and I told her, get in.

Speaker 11 From Big Al's house, Ashley was picked up by another man, Sam McDonald. According to Sam, Ashley stayed at his cabin deep in the mountains for six days.

Speaker 11 And then on June 11th, he claimed he decided to drive her home.

Speaker 11 But somewhere along the way, she disappeared.

Speaker 11 The deeper Payne and the team dug, the more suspicious characters began to emerge. Big Al, whose house was reportedly known for drugs and troubling behavior, was one of them.

Speaker 11 There were stories of girls escaping his house, syringes in their arms, one local said. And then Ashley went there.

Speaker 11 But it was Sam McDonald who stood at the center of the investigation.

Speaker 11 Sam admitted that Ashley had stayed with him for days. and described a bizarre and troubling final interaction.

Speaker 11 He claimed that while driving her back to town, Ashley asked him to stop at a mountain pullout,

Speaker 11 saying she was meeting someone named V-Dog.

Speaker 11 I leaned my chair back, and when I woke up, she was gone, Sam said.

Speaker 11 Sam's story raised more questions than answers.

Speaker 11 Why didn't he help with the search for Ashley afterward?

Speaker 11 Why did he remodel his house after she disappeared? And who exactly was V-Dog?

Speaker 11 V-Dog, as it turned out, was a man named Paul Valenzuela,

Speaker 11 a known criminal with a lengthy record.

Speaker 11 But by the time Payne tracked him down, the trail had grown cold.

Speaker 11 Ashley's disappearance is part of a larger crisis. Native women are murdered at rates 10 times higher than the national average.
And murder is the third leading cause of death for Indigenous women.

Speaker 11 Despite these staggering statistics, law enforcement often fails to act.

Speaker 11 Desi Lone Bear Rodriguez, an advocate for MMIW, described the systematic failures that have allowed this crisis to continue.

Speaker 11 Our women are targets, she said. We're not safe in our homes, in our communities, or on the roads.
And when we disappear, no one cares.

Speaker 11 Payne and the team amplified this message, giving Kimberly and others a platform to demand justice, not just for Ashley, but for all Indigenous women.

Speaker 11 For over four years, Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner has been the driving force behind the search for Ashley. She has led marches, spoken at town halls, and even testified before Congress.

Speaker 11 calling out the failures of law enforcement to take her sister's case seriously. If If they had searched for my sister right away, we wouldn't still be looking.
We would have Ashley, she said.

Speaker 11 Kimberly's determination has not only kept Ashley's story alive, but has also brought national attention to the broader issue of MMIW.

Speaker 11 One of the most dramatic moments in Payne's investigation came when he tracked down Sam McDonald at his remote cabin near St. Mary's Lake.

Speaker 11 As Payne approached, Sam stepped out of his house holding a gun. If I'd seen a gun in your hand, Sam said, I would have shot you.

Speaker 11 Despite the tense encounter, Payne managed to interview Sam, pressing him on the details of Ashley's disappearance. But the more Sam talked, the less his story seemed to add up.

Speaker 13 You might remember the name Paul Valenzuela, or maybe you remember his nickname better, V-Dog.

Speaker 13 He was one of the major names that kept floating around in Ashley's case. Like a shadow behind the scenes.
We heard rumors, whispers, and eventually we tracked him down.

Speaker 13 I'll be honest, when I knocked on his door, I didn't know what was going to happen.

Speaker 14 Any of this is written down, what I'm telling you right now.

Speaker 11 I'm going to come find you.

Speaker 15 Okay?

Speaker 11 Because I'm telling you right now.

Speaker 17 I'm just a podcaster. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody.

Speaker 18 check this out, man.

Speaker 14 I know the routine.

Speaker 18 I know all this little, this little talk.

Speaker 5 I don't work for the big people. I don't work for the news.
I'm just independent.

Speaker 19 It doesn't matter.

Speaker 14 Everybody's always going to blame the bad guy, okay? Everybody does it for every fucking reason. So I'm going to tell you right now, I ain't got nothing to do with that fucking Loring girl.

Speaker 11 Okay. Never did, never will.

Speaker 20 Kimberly Loring is a piece of crap for what the fuck she's been doing to my family.

Speaker 19 What's she done? In my family name.

Speaker 18 It don't bother me. That shit don't bother me at all, bro.

Speaker 5 I don't give a fuck where you come from man there's other people in the case it's not like it's just you like there's sam

Speaker 17 go for it then well go do no i've talked to sam i've talked to t i only haven't talked to you

Speaker 14 about t the t is a piece of crap too they're all pieces of crap okay because you need to write that down they're all pieces of crap

Speaker 22 dude five minutes man please off my board before i turn the dog out there

Speaker 13 to date This is one of the most intense moments I've ever experienced doing this show. Something about the way he looked at me, the tension in the air, this strange confusion amongst us.

Speaker 13 It was pretty clear, this guy had something to hide, and he didn't care if he lost everything trying to hide it. And now, firsthand, we know exactly how dangerous V Dog really is.

Speaker 13 In June of 2024, just a few months after our encounter, Paul Valenzuela was arrested by the FBI in Great Falls, Montana.

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Speaker 15 Several people were detained overnight in Great Falls after law enforcement officers executed a search warrant. The situation developed between midnight and 1 a.m.

Speaker 15 on Monday, August 14th, at or near 6th Avenue, North and 7th Street.

Speaker 15 An officer with a bullhorn announced several times that the FBI was executing the warrant and ordered the suspects to come out of the house.

Speaker 15 At least one flashbang was used and officers with the high-risk unit eventually broke down the door of the house.

Speaker 13 At first, the charges were shocking. Threats to kill a federal officer.
Firearms violations. an assault with a deadly weapon.
But then it got worse. In the court filings, the truth came out.

Speaker 13 Valenzuela had brutally assaulted a man on the Blackfeet Reservation with a baseball bat,

Speaker 13 leaving him hospitalized with serious injuries.

Speaker 13 The federal charge of threatening a law enforcement officer was later dropped, but the assault charge stuck.

Speaker 13 V-Dog was sentenced to three years in federal prison. And suddenly, the rumors about him didn't feel like rumors anymore.
They felt like warnings.

Speaker 13 Looking back at that moment, standing on his doorstep, asking him point blank about Ashley, I still get chills.

Speaker 13 Because that's what this story is full of. People hiding in plain sight.
People who think no one will come knocking. But we did.

Speaker 13 And now he's behind bars.

Speaker 13 At least for a little while.

Speaker 13 Whether or not Paul Valenzuela was involved in Ashley's disappearance is still something we're digging into to this day.

Speaker 13 But what we do know is is this. He's dangerous.
He's capable of violence. And he had every reason in the world to avoid the truth.

Speaker 13 After airing Ashley's story, something happened that no one could have been prepared for. The tip line blew up.

Speaker 13 Dozens and dozens of phone calls. Some of the tips felt like noise.
Dead ends, static.

Speaker 13 But then, certain voices began to cut through the silence. The ones that stuck with me, the ones I couldn't shake, one of which was Megan.

Speaker 21 I turned in a report to Blackfeet Law Enforcement, Blackfeet Tribal Business Council, the FBI, Miss and Murdered Indigenous People Out of Billings.

Speaker 21 And my report is not being looked into because the person who found her phone that was signed into Ashley's Facebook is named Ruben Edwards.

Speaker 21 There's another Reuben Edwards in Browning that is a straight person.

Speaker 21 However, it was not that Reuben Edwards that found the phone. It was a different Reuben Edwards, a younger one, not the straight person.

Speaker 21 Ashley was seen by my cousin.

Speaker 21 He seen Ashley in a truck with two males.

Speaker 21 One of them was named Ellen Potts, Sher Chief, and the other one's name is Joe Goebert.

Speaker 21 Ashley jumped out of the truck and she walked over to my cousin David's vehicle and asked for a ride and David asked what she was doing out there.

Speaker 21 Ashley got mad that he would question her and she jumped back in with the guys.

Speaker 21 Exactly that spot where she jumped out at and where she's seen David at, that's where her phone was found.

Speaker 13 Megan claims her cousin saw Ashley that day. Not only that, but he talked to her.
She says Ashley was with two men, Joe Gobert and Alan Potts, and that she asked for a ride, seemingly panicked.

Speaker 13 And when he questioned her, she got angry and jumped back into the truck. The spot where it happened? The same spot where Ashley's phone was eventually found.

Speaker 13 Still logged into her Facebook. Megan says the man who found it was confused with someone else by law enforcement, which caused the whole lead to be dismissed.

Speaker 13 She also says Ashley was trying to get to Two Medicine, texting people for a ride, and that destination may hold the key.

Speaker 21 I said, did you, how do you know that was Ashley's phone? And he said, because it was signed into Facebook and it said Ashley Loring Heavy Runner.

Speaker 21 I said, well, do you remember anything about the phone? And he said, yeah, it wasn't cracked. It was a newer phone.
It didn't have a lock on it.

Speaker 21 And there was text messages that she was asking for a ride to Renning Fisher's. She was asking him for a ride to Toumedicine.

Speaker 21 There was someone who reported her in a white truck parked out by Toumedicine.

Speaker 21 Well, out by Toumedicine, where she was going, where I believe to where she was going was to Mabel and Jamie Renning Fisher's bunkhouse.

Speaker 21 They had a guy living there who was a ranch hand and he came from the Billings area, I think it was like the Crow Reservation.

Speaker 21 Jimmy met him through rodeoing.

Speaker 21 He was living in their house and he had no form of transportation besides a horse and their green ATV.

Speaker 21 I was out into medicine on my grandpa's land.

Speaker 21 When I was down there by the river, I was with my boyfriend and we got out of the truck and I heard a ATV in the distance,

Speaker 21 but it was just part, like running and it took a really long time. And then finally, I started hearing it get closer.
And it got closer.

Speaker 21 I seen Richard, our Jess, whatever his name is, in the trees out into medicine. And when I seen him, he panicked.

Speaker 21 He didn't know what to do. He jumped out of ATV and he like stood behind it and the only way he could leave was if he went past me

Speaker 21 like how we were in the clearing and when he went past there was a big

Speaker 21 black bag in the back

Speaker 21 it looked like there was like some like it wasn't like trash it was something that was like

Speaker 21 big

Speaker 21 and sticking out the side of the

Speaker 21 of the ATV the back of the ETV.

Speaker 21 It's not investigated properly. The person I listed who found Ashley's phone that when Ashley was asking for a ride to medicine,

Speaker 21 he is being

Speaker 21 confused with someone who has the same name. I really would appreciate if you guys can question Richard Jess Rilbert on this, also, because I believe that's who she was going to.

Speaker 21 That was the only male living down there at that time. And he fled immediately in June, like mid-June.

Speaker 21 The owner of the ranch, she, I have a message I could show you where she says she gave him a ride back to Billings. He left all his clothes, he's rope pars, and he never returned.

Speaker 13 According to her, Jess left town days after Ashley vanished. Left all this stuff behind, never to come back again.

Speaker 13 But that wasn't the only tip.

Speaker 13 We also got a call from Ashley's mother.

Speaker 22 Hello, I'm trying to get a hold of Penn Lindsay.

Speaker 22 I'm Ashley's mother, Loxilin Loring, and

Speaker 22 I have been in contact and trying to work with the FBI.

Speaker 22 And we have a new location just across from Divide, where Sam claims that he took my daughter.

Speaker 22 We got

Speaker 22 a tip from Wendy Bird.

Speaker 22 That's where Tashina brought my daughter. There's a trailer down there.

Speaker 22 And it's just across the road from Divide.

Speaker 22 If you can please give me a call back.

Speaker 22 I would really like to speak to Payne Lindsay. And if there's any way that I need help with cadaver dogs.

Speaker 22 And I really appreciate for what you have done. on my daughter's case and interviews.

Speaker 22 If you could please give me a callback, thank you.

Speaker 13 She told me about a new location, a trailer near Divide,

Speaker 13 a place that might have been tied to Sam, the man who claimed to have been with Ashley the night she disappeared. Then there was something stranger.

Speaker 21 I guess this is weird, but

Speaker 21 I came across a profile on Spet Life last night.

Speaker 21 The name that the profile is under

Speaker 21 is

Speaker 21 Sativa Bria S A T

Speaker 21 I V A

Speaker 21 B R

Speaker 21 I A

Speaker 21 this girl in this profile looks

Speaker 21 uncannily like Ashley. I mean, I just was stunned looking at it.
I think they have the same teeth. But I, anyway.

Speaker 13 A woman found an online profile with a girl who looked almost identical to Ashley. The username, Sativa Bria.

Speaker 13 Honestly, it could be completely nothing. Or it might be someone using Ashley's identity.

Speaker 13 Either way, the resemblance was striking.

Speaker 13 And yet one more broken piece to add to this puzzle.

Speaker 13 And then there were the visions.

Speaker 13 I don't usually include these. I'll be honest.
Psychic tips, spiritual visions. Those don't usually make it into my notebooks.
But one call

Speaker 13 gave me chills.

Speaker 21 I grew up on the tribe with Ashley. I didn't know her as much.

Speaker 21 I might even call

Speaker 21 an empath.

Speaker 21 I'm not sure if I'm completely psychic or a medium by any means, but I've had this vision of Ashley

Speaker 21 and I just had it again.

Speaker 21 I see her standing in a room.

Speaker 21 She's looking at me and I...

Speaker 21 She's trying to tell me something, but I don't... I can't believe what she's saying to me.

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Speaker 21 Because it's like I see her her and she's yelling at me, but I don't know what she's saying because there's nothing coming out of her mouth.

Speaker 21 But she's screaming, trying to get my attention, and I'm trying to help her, but I can't do anything because I don't know what she's saying to me.

Speaker 13 Her name was Shanae Running Rabbit. She grew up on the same reservation and said she'd had this vision over and over again.

Speaker 21 I've had this vision. I don't know how many times I've had this vision.

Speaker 21 At one point, it was like I was looking through her eyes, and she was in this

Speaker 21 like this room.

Speaker 21 I think there was a bed against the wall or something.

Speaker 21 And

Speaker 21 I don't know. I just

Speaker 21 I was looking through her eyes in this vision as well, and I just saw what she was seeing. But I can't tell where she's at.
But I know she was in a room somewhere.

Speaker 21 I don't know if this will help at all.

Speaker 21 I doubt it will.

Speaker 21 But I've had this vision so many times. And I lived on the tribe where she lived as well.

Speaker 21 I still can't see what she's saying to me. And I think she kind of gives me a hint to where she's at.

Speaker 21 I will try to channel it again.

Speaker 21 I doubt this will be able to help, but

Speaker 21 something in me is telling me that I need to tell you this now.

Speaker 13 Ashley in a dark room, screaming. And something about the way she said it just stuck with me.

Speaker 13 Some of these tips are very specific, some completely abstract. But altogether, they start to form something bigger.
A picture of a young woman surrounded by danger.

Speaker 13 A trail that keeps trying to disappear.

Speaker 13 And the possibility that we might be closer than ever to real answers.

Speaker 13 But of all the tips we received, there was one far more disturbing than the others. In August of last year, Ashley's sister, Kimberly, received a tip.

Speaker 13 It wasn't just a name or a rumor. It was a link.

Speaker 13 A link to a video that was more than unsettling. It was hosted on a shock site known for gore.

Speaker 13 And what they said was chilling.

Speaker 13 The video began with a local news clip, a reporter announcing the reward for Ashley's case.

Speaker 13 Then this eerie song starts playing in the background. Upon further investigation, we found that this song was a distorted version of Secret, one of the theme songs in the show Pretty Little Liars.

Speaker 13 It's a haunting track about two girls. One tells the other a secret.
She promises to keep it, but she doesn't.

Speaker 13 And the secret then becomes deadly.

Speaker 13 The screen cuts to an animated skull, guns crossed behind it. It looks like something from a 90s video game.
But then it flashes to Ashley's missing poster.

Speaker 13 Her face, her name, her story.

Speaker 13 And then, it shows a woman in a bathtub outside. A metal grate bolted across the top, locking her inside.

Speaker 13 It's filmed from the viewpoint of someone holding a hose, slowly filling the tub with water.

Speaker 13 And that's where it ends.

Speaker 13 To be completely transparent, I've truly never seen anything in my life this awful before.

Speaker 13 Was this real?

Speaker 13 Was it a hoax? A prank?

Speaker 13 Regardless, here's what we do know. Whoever made this, whether it was a hoax, a sick joke, or something far worse, someone out there knew about Ashley.

Speaker 13 Knew that this girl looked just like her.

Speaker 13 And they knew exactly what they were doing.

Speaker 13 And whoever this twisted person is, it's a crime. And we've passed this information along to the FBI.

Speaker 13 We've spent years on this case. Years talking to people who said they didn't know anything, even though their stories didn't add up.

Speaker 13 Years hearing the same names over and over again. Years watching agencies pass the buck, from one to the next.

Speaker 13 Ashley Loring Heavy Runner disappeared on tribal land. That means the jurisdiction gets messy.
Local law, tribal law, federal law, it's a complete maze.

Speaker 13 And if you're the family of a missing person, there's no roadmap.

Speaker 13 And for those still searching, this isn't just a headline. It's a lived experience, and they're still in it.

Speaker 13 I believe someone knows exactly what happened to Ashley and someone else is still too scared to say.

Speaker 13 That's why we're still doing this because maybe the right person is finally ready.

Speaker 13 And if that's you, that matters. There's still a $50,000 reward here for any new information that leads to an arrest.
in Ashley's case.

Speaker 13 This episode marks the end of a long chapter. But it's not the end of the story.
And for those of you who've been waiting, we're not done.

Speaker 13 Up and Vanished Season 4 in the Midnight Sun will finally return on Friday, April 25th, back to Alaska, back into the dark, deeper than ever before.

Speaker 13 From past experience, I've learned the closer you get to the truth, the more dangerous it becomes.

Speaker 13 Up and Vanished Season 4 in the Midnight Sun, the disappearance of Florence Okpiolik and Joseph Balderis returns Friday, April 25th.

Speaker 13 Stay tuned.

Speaker 13 I grabbed my torch, I started up a fire. You really don't think that we're gonna survive, yeah.
You seem smart like you know my time, but I hope you're not around when I draw my gun.

Speaker 4 You see the fire from my wind chest, I've been holding my tongue too long.

Speaker 27 All you see is the lights in the road. You're running things, you're running home, yeah.

Speaker 28 Starting route to Browning, Montana

Speaker 28 for 82 miles. Continue on US Highway 2.

Speaker 20 Up and Vanish is a production of Tenderfoot TV, created, hosted, and edited by Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright.
Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set.

Speaker 20 Our theme song is Ophelia by Ezra Rose. Sound design, mixing, and mastering by Cooper Skinner.
Additional production by Cooper Skinner, Eric Quintana, and myself, Mike Rooney.

Speaker 20 Our cover art is by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to Grace Royer and Orin Rosenbaum at UTA.
Ryan Nord, Jesse Nord, and Matthew Papa at the Nord Group.

Speaker 20 Station 16, Beck Media Marketing, as well as Chris Cochran and the team at Cadence 13. This episode features the song Riot by Kamina.
You can hear more by visiting Kaminomusic.com.

Speaker 20 Visit us on social media at Up and Vanished, or you can visit us at up andvanished.com where you can join in on our discussion board.

Speaker 20 If you're enjoying Up and Vanished, tell a friend, family member, or co-worker about it. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
Thanks for listening.

Speaker 10 This is the story of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast.

Speaker 10 It's why he partners with Granger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers.

Speaker 10 All so that he can help students, staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-GRA, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.
Granger for the ones who get it done.

Speaker 29 Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

Speaker 29 From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it.

Speaker 23 Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.