15 | Jake's Interview

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Speaker 1 During the day, on Saturday, June 25th, I went went bridge jumping. But Jake was not there.

Speaker 1 Later that Saturday night, I went to a party at a camp outside Nome.

Speaker 1 The party was late. It probably started around 10 or 11 p.m.

Speaker 1 and went until 4 or 5 in the morning.

Speaker 1 Jake was at this party.

Speaker 1 I know that for certain.

Speaker 1 Because I talked to him, face to face for over 30 minutes. Just me and him.

Speaker 1 I was having a drink, standing by a keg at the party.

Speaker 1 And that's when Jake first approached me. We talked for a while.
Then eventually, we walked off on our own.

Speaker 1 It's a little fuzzy because I had been drinking.

Speaker 1 But I remember we had a very long conversation.

Speaker 1 Off to the side. Off, off, off to the off.

Speaker 5 Off to the side. Off to the side.

Speaker 5 And then he kissed me.

Speaker 5 And he kissed me.

Speaker 5 Had no idea Christine even existed.

Speaker 5 Did not know that was his cousin. Did not know that Joseph was at the family dinners.
any of the pisfoya involvement.

Speaker 2 I knew none of that.

Speaker 5 Said that it'd be really hard for me to believe that Jake would just outright do something on his own.

Speaker 5 But what I do think Jake would do is lie or cover up to save himself,

Speaker 5 especially if it was a family-related thing.

Speaker 5 Jake would 1,000%

Speaker 5 lie or cover up or save himself.

Speaker 5 If Jake had any involvement,

Speaker 5 we feel like it would be to lie and cover up something that happened in the family.

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Speaker 13 All right, this will be an interview between Andy Clamser and Jake. Is it Stettin-Benz?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir.

Speaker 13 And today's date is the 30th of September 2016. The time now is 1256 p.m.

Speaker 13 And we are at the Aurora Inn in Nome.

Speaker 13 So could you tell me how well you knew Joseph?

Speaker 13 I mean I've talked to some people and basically what people told me so far is that you guys really didn't know each other, big age difference and you weren't there that long.

Speaker 1 I knew him as my cousin Chrissy's

Speaker 1 friend.

Speaker 1 That's what they kept it as friend.

Speaker 1 Never told me anything about it.

Speaker 1 I knew about him last summer, but I knew his name last summer and that stays true to the summer. I just know his name.
Okay.

Speaker 13 And that was just from Christmas?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 13 And so, after you moved in there, did you guys get to know each other at all?

Speaker 1 Not at all.

Speaker 1 I mean, we said hi here and there if we were passing by each other in the hallway or in the kitchen or something, but that was about it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 So, based on the you know the little bit that you knew about him,

Speaker 13 what were your general impressions of him? What was he like?

Speaker 1 One of my first impressions was that he was kind of an outgoing, you know,

Speaker 1 soft-spoken person. He always wanted to say hi to you or

Speaker 1 saying what you're doing, you know.

Speaker 13 Anything else?

Speaker 1 That's about it with me. I mean, if I saw him in the hallway, he'd be like, oh, hey, what are you doing today?

Speaker 1 And, you know, I would tell him, I'm just hanging out with my friends, probably going to the gym. He'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm going for a hike today.

Speaker 1 Short and brief conversations. Mm-hmm.
Okay.

Speaker 13 So did Joseph say anything to you about his plans to move to Juneau and get married in August?

Speaker 1 Wow. No, he didn't.

Speaker 13 You didn't know that? No.

Speaker 1 I knew he was moving in August, but he didn't say where or to do what.

Speaker 1 He just said he was moving. Oh yeah, that's my plan too.
I'm probably going to be leaving too, but things didn't fall through.

Speaker 13 Yeah, he's getting married to this gal down there and he's going to open a law practice, so big changes for him, you know.

Speaker 13 But it didn't sound like you guys had the kind of relationship where you'd share information like that.

Speaker 1 I frankly didn't know he was

Speaker 1 getting married to someone else other than... I thought, you know, he was still seeing my cousin Chrissy.

Speaker 13 Okay.

Speaker 1 So what was...

Speaker 9 I mean, I've interviewed Christine.

Speaker 13 Do you, I mean, what was his relationship with Chrissy?

Speaker 13 Um,

Speaker 1 I don't really know. Um whenever I went to my grandparents' house, you know how your family usually make fun of someone you're seeing when you're growing up.

Speaker 1 You're like, oh yeah, it's your boyfriend, you know. It was kind of stuff like that.
So I really...

Speaker 1 There was no solid info to me that they were dating or whatever you want to say. So I really couldn't tell you.

Speaker 1 I just figured because that's what the family talked about.

Speaker 13 What did the family talk about?

Speaker 1 It was just like they were just joking around, like I was saying, like, oh, yeah, that's your boyfriend. Um, why isn't he here? You know,

Speaker 13 did you get that sense that people in your family wanted them to be a couple?

Speaker 1 I think they wanted Chrissy to date him, it wasn't more of the family, it was just for her.

Speaker 13 Did Chrissy ever talk to you about him at all?

Speaker 1 Not at all.

Speaker 13 I mean, did you ever get the sense that, you know, if he wanted to keep it as a friendship, she was willing to do that as, you know, as good as it's going to get, basically?

Speaker 1 I mean, I have no doubt Chrissy would be totally fine with it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you have any idea what was going on in Joseph's life in the two weeks leading up to his disappearance?

Speaker 1 Not

Speaker 1 in his work life, but

Speaker 1 there was a weekend. I'm not sure if it was two weeks prior or maybe it might have been three weeks, but he said he was bringing a couple friends up from the lower 48, I'm assuming.

Speaker 1 They were in the house. I want to say there was

Speaker 1 two of them.

Speaker 1 But they stayed in a different room. I hardly ever saw them because I was working from eight to five.
So I left, they were gone, or sleeping still. I got home.

Speaker 13 They were out and great outdoors.

Speaker 1 But other than that, I didn't know about his personal life.

Speaker 9 What was he like as a roommate?

Speaker 1 I can't say much about it, but every day, you know, he woke up. I think he woke up before I did.
He showered, and then I usually wait for him to get out of the shower so I could shower.

Speaker 1 And then by the time I got out, he'd be leaving for work. He usually walked to work if it was nice.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I'd get off a little early, beat him home.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'd usually stay in my room most of the time because that house we live in, that I live in, it's empty.

Speaker 13 Like no furniture or anything?

Speaker 1 There's one couch, there's a table, but that's about it. And I have a T V in my room so I stay in my room a large majority of the time.
So like we never hung out.

Speaker 13 Do you remember seeing him on the Friday night of that weekend he disappeared?

Speaker 1 No, because I was out

Speaker 1 on the Tello Teller Road going bridge jumping with

Speaker 1 Kubrak Road.

Speaker 1 Out bridge jumping with my friends.

Speaker 1 And who were you with?

Speaker 1 So this night gets a little vague for me because it's been so long.

Speaker 1 The people that I were with and how I got there, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 And my friend Tyler and my friend Emory.

Speaker 1 And this is out by Salmon Lake on the Cougar Road, not on the Tullover Road. Okay.

Speaker 13 And this is Friday night, not Saturday night, right?

Speaker 1 Friday night.

Speaker 13 So still talking about Friday night.

Speaker 13 So do you know when, do you remember about when you got home after being out bridge jumping?

Speaker 1 I'm gonna be honest with you, I really don't remember what time.

Speaker 13 Okay.

Speaker 13 So what's involved in bridge jumping?

Speaker 1 Basically what it sounds like. You just get up on the rail and jump off of it.

Speaker 13 Into the water? Yeah. Isn't the water cold?

Speaker 1 Oh yeah. That's the exhilarating part and the falling part, of course, but it's fun.
I grew up doing it.

Speaker 13 And it was just the two people with you, the two guys?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Do you recall if Joseph's truck was there when you got home, whenever that was?

Speaker 1 I don't think it was home.

Speaker 1 Because usually whenever it is home, I usually make a mental note of in my head saying, oh, Joseph's something.

Speaker 13 Right.

Speaker 1 I don't recall making that note.

Speaker 9 So

Speaker 13 he was out partying that night with Christine and Kim. You know, we're not certain what time he got home.
Was it daylight when you got home that night or morning?

Speaker 1 It was actually a really nice day. So I mean here when it's super nice the sun doesn't set for a while.
So

Speaker 1 I would have to guess

Speaker 1 I don't know 1030 11

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 13 so it wasn't like early morning

Speaker 13 Did you have friends over to the house on Friday or Saturday night

Speaker 1 I didn't have friends Friday, and

Speaker 1 I most definitely didn't have friends the next night.

Speaker 1 I'm not too sure what we did,

Speaker 1 but it wasn't.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I if I was home or not, but

Speaker 1 I don't know, I just don't remember.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you remember Joseph saying anything about what he intended to do that weekend?

Speaker 1 He didn't run it by me.

Speaker 13 Were you aware of him going to the beach with Chrissy on Saturday?

Speaker 1 Saturday? Yep.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 he probably would have left like around noon.

Speaker 1 Okay, hold on. Let me.

Speaker 1 Okay, so he went missing Sunday afternoon, right?

Speaker 13 Sounds like it, because it sounds like you were the last person to see him.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I was confusing myself. I went bridge jumping Saturday evening.
Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you remember

Speaker 13 what you were doing on Friday evening?

Speaker 13 No, I do not.

Speaker 13 Is it possible that you had friends over Friday evening?

Speaker 1 I honestly don't recall.

Speaker 1 Do you recall

Speaker 13 about what time you left to go bridge jumping on Saturday?

Speaker 13 I wanna say I could have left anywhere between five or six.

Speaker 1 And we were supposed to meet up with a larger group of people, but

Speaker 1 they were at a different bridge.

Speaker 1 So we went looking

Speaker 1 and then I think we finally found them at a bridge called Grand Central. So that's

Speaker 1 why it was late in the evening when I got back. Okay.

Speaker 1 And plus, we were just enjoying the country, enjoying the views. It was a nice day from what I remember.

Speaker 13 Where is Grand Central?

Speaker 1 It's on the Kugruck Road right before Salmon Lake.

Speaker 1 Salmon Lake, I want to say it's at 34 miles on the road.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 And who was in that other group?

Speaker 1 See the thing is, all summer I've been doing kind of the same thing, going bridge jumping, going out in the country. It's just kind of hard to remember

Speaker 1 times and people.

Speaker 1 Usually, man, if it's nice out,

Speaker 1 weather's warm,

Speaker 1 it'll be a thought in all of her heads: hey, let's go bridge jumping. And we'll call all of her friends to go.

Speaker 1 It's been so long, man, I couldn't remember exactly who was all there

Speaker 13 Do you remember anyone that was in that other group

Speaker 1 specifically? No, I don't

Speaker 13 How many people roughly

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 13 who did you catch a ride with out there?

Speaker 1 It was the same two people that I was with, my friend Tyler and my friend Emery. Okay.

Speaker 13 So it's pretty important for us to try and figure out who Joseph may have been close with around the time that he disappeared.

Speaker 13 Did he ever have any women over to the house at any time while you were living there?

Speaker 1 Not that I know of.

Speaker 13 Did he ever say anything about any relationships he had other, you know, than his friendship with Chrissy?

Speaker 1 Like I said, man, we never talked. Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you know if Joseph owned any firearms?

Speaker 1 I've never seen any.

Speaker 1 I assume he had one because he was always hiking. You know, that's something you might really need

Speaker 1 if you're hiking. Right.

Speaker 1 I don't know. The state troopers went over there one day after searching the house and

Speaker 1 after thoroughly checking everything, they went back again and

Speaker 1 they found a box of 44 ammo

Speaker 1 and I think one was missing out of the whole box.

Speaker 1 Never seen a 44 or anything close to it in the house before.

Speaker 13 So it wasn't your ammo.

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Speaker 13 What are your sort of gut instincts about what probably happened to him?

Speaker 1 I think something bad happened to him.

Speaker 1 My mom said when they were searching for him, there was 30 plus bears in that area.

Speaker 1 I think a bear might have gotten to him. him.

Speaker 1 Does that happen out here?

Speaker 1 I want to say it does, but a large majority of the time they're going to find the body.

Speaker 1 And I started thinking about this whole thing all summer. It started to

Speaker 1 stress me out. And I, like, in my mind, I just

Speaker 1 been thinking, I probably think someone might have killed him. Because, you know, they haven't found a body yet.

Speaker 1 The dogs couldn't find him. There was helicopters.
There was airplanes. There's numerous people looking for him.

Speaker 1 And still to this day, there's no body.

Speaker 13 Right.

Speaker 13 Yeah, a lot of people have said that. A lot of local people have said that.
If he got attacked by a bear, we would have found something.

Speaker 1 Something.

Speaker 13 But he doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would have enemies.

Speaker 13 or be engaged in risky behavior or anything.

Speaker 1 It doesn't appear that way at all. I didn't get that vibe when I met him.

Speaker 1 My mom told me that he was a

Speaker 1 law clerk.

Speaker 1 I'm not too sure what he does, but I was told from my mom that he looks over the evidence of some cases.

Speaker 1 I don't know, that could have been a trigger.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Just like the rest of this town, I just want to know what happened.

Speaker 1 It's been a stressful summer and I was living in an anchorage and come back to know and I didn't expect this.

Speaker 13 Right, right, exactly. This is something you'd expect in Anchorage.

Speaker 13 Did you feel that the search was thorough and covered all the areas it should have?

Speaker 13 Thoroughly, yeah.

Speaker 13 Very thoroughly.

Speaker 1 My mom and her husband, they still go out.

Speaker 1 Coast Guard was even up here that kind of takes a big

Speaker 1 exclamation mark for the Coast Guard to be up here searching in their helicopter. Right.

Speaker 1 I don't know, I think the town just saw it as one big disappearance and they couldn't

Speaker 1 supply answers because they don't have any of the

Speaker 13 did you participate in the search at all?

Speaker 13 No.

Speaker 1 I went once

Speaker 1 with my friend Tyler

Speaker 1 just because, A, it was a nice day.

Speaker 1 Didn't really have anything to do that day, so I just took a drive down the road.

Speaker 13 Were you working when all this was going on, all the searching and everything?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would... I was working for the village of Council all summer.
And so once a month

Speaker 1 for about a week, we would drive down to Council, go up the river there,

Speaker 1 come back at the end of the day, drive back into town. So I'd be up and down all along that road.
And, you know, I'd keep an eye out.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, as a month passed,

Speaker 1 just the chances of him turning up or getting slimmer, I guess you could say.

Speaker 13 so was there any friction between you and Joseph over the internet account at the house

Speaker 1 no um I was just

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 let me try to say

Speaker 1 I was actually going over the deal on that we were gonna make and you know I pay half you pay half and we go half on the utilities every month

Speaker 1 and I mean I never got around to it because I took myself a financial hole so I was covering my ends and then I was gonna take care of that

Speaker 1 but no there was no friction

Speaker 13 any friction about anything else I mean sometimes roommates just don't you know they just clash on yeah I get that but there was no communication between us

Speaker 1 other than those brief conversations.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Did Joseph seem to drink very much?

Speaker 1 I would say he only drank beer every weekend.

Speaker 13 Do I mean to excess?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I only saw the beer that he bought. He'd be on the counter.

Speaker 1 Never seen him

Speaker 1 drunk. Had a beer in his hand.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you remember seeing or hearing him return to the house in the early morning hours of Friday night, Saturday morning, like maybe 3 a.m. or so?

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 13 You would have been home at that time, right? Oh, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 13 Do you have any suggestions for people I should talk to about his disappearance?

Speaker 1 No, I don't feel

Speaker 1 as if anyone in this town would know where he was. Or he could get a better answer than what I gave you.

Speaker 13 You don't remember seeing him leave the house there on Saturday when he went to meet Chrissy at the beach?

Speaker 1 That is correct, I don't.

Speaker 13 Did your uncle Kevin ever stay there?

Speaker 1 I was gone all winter. I haven't been at Nilham since

Speaker 1 August of 2015.

Speaker 1 He might have during the winter.

Speaker 13 But not while Joseph was there.

Speaker 1 I don't think so, no.

Speaker 13 Do you remember seeing the pickup that he was using at the house on Sunday?

Speaker 13 Do you remember hearing a vehicle leave on Sunday?

Speaker 13 No, I don't.

Speaker 13 What did you do on that Sunday?

Speaker 13 I really don't remember.

Speaker 13 Were you just waking up when you saw him in the hallway?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like

Speaker 1 him opening the door was the first thing I woke up to. Okay.
And I rolled over just to look, you know, just out of curiosity to see who it was.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, there was a light coming up from the entrance way downstairs. And so there was a light shining off the white wall.

Speaker 1 So I couldn't really see who it was, but I saw a shadow and I saw his red backpack. Which he always had, I'm assuming.

Speaker 13 So what did you do Saturday night when you got back to know him from bridge jumping?

Speaker 1 I want to say more than likely I probably just went to bed.

Speaker 13 Do you have any independent memory of that night when you got back from bridge jumping? No.

Speaker 13 Do you remember if Joseph's truck was at the house when you got home Saturday night?

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 13 Was there anybody with you when you got home?

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 13 Did you just get dropped off?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And who dropped you off?

Speaker 1 The same person who brought me up, Bridgeon. Title.

Speaker 13 I mean, it doesn't sound like any of you or your friends saw Joseph or the truck on Saturday or Sunday other than when you saw him in the hallway.

Speaker 1 No, um,

Speaker 1 my friends didn't really know him. They didn't, they knew nothing about him.
They

Speaker 1 met him the same time I did, you know, this summer. And they,

Speaker 1 if that, they said hi to him, you know. And I didn't expect them to know him.
I didn't expect Joseph to know them.

Speaker 1 I didn't know this guy at all.

Speaker 13 So had you driven out past the area of mile 44 in the council road on Saturday or Sunday?

Speaker 13 No.

Speaker 13 Did you have a vehicle available to you to use?

Speaker 1 When?

Speaker 13 Well, this time period, so they ended June, early July.

Speaker 1 No, I've never had a vehicle mile in the summer.

Speaker 13 Had Joseph ever talked with you about running out there on the council road in the area of mile 44?

Speaker 1 No, he didn't.

Speaker 13 Had Joseph ever said anything to you about wanting to go fishing out in that area?

Speaker 1 I don't think he ever did.

Speaker 1 Or not that I know of.

Speaker 13 And is that even good fishing out there?

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's some good fishing. You just gotta find the right fish, know when to go.

Speaker 1 Because there's different times where different spawns are hatching.

Speaker 1 Some are dying, some are actually young, they'll give you a fight, and that's where the fun comes in.

Speaker 13 Are there other kinds of fish in there other than salmon?

Speaker 1 There's silver salmon, there's

Speaker 1 chamo salmon. There's four different kinds.
I just I can't list them. I don't know.

Speaker 13 I was wondering if there were like, you know, other kinds of fish other than salmon and they're trout or other stuff.

Speaker 1 There might be trout.

Speaker 13 So I wanted to ask you about this whole confusing situation with the 308 rifle that somebody dropped off at the house.

Speaker 1 Um, so that 308 rifle, my dad won it. I'm pretty sure he won it at one of the NRA banquets here.

Speaker 1 They give out raffles. Well, you gotta buy raffles.
So at that banquet, they'll draw tickets and you can go up and select a gun. I'm pretty sure my dad selected the black 308 rifle.

Speaker 1 So last winter, before I left for Anchorage to go to school, I was living at my grandmother's garage.

Speaker 1 There was a bed in there, you know, a TV, I had my own little setup. So I brought the gun with me because I moved out of my dad's just to have it.

Speaker 1 I may have shot it once that winter

Speaker 1 and then I left. Kind of forgot about it

Speaker 1 and then I moved back here after a while

Speaker 1 I think my grand reminded me that my rifle was there

Speaker 1 without telling me my uncle brought it back to the house

Speaker 1 and that was just before the state troopers

Speaker 1 searched the house again they were like oh yeah whose rifle is this

Speaker 1 me not knowing that my uncle dropped it off I said it's not mine I've never seen it before okay

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 9 I think.

Speaker 13 So when the troopers asked you that, did they show you the rifle or did they tell you there was a rifle downstairs?

Speaker 1 They told me they had already taken it.

Speaker 13 Okay.

Speaker 13 So it's not like they showed it to you.

Speaker 1 No, but they said it was a black 308 and a little light off went inside my head and like, oh, you know, I'm pretty sure I've got 308.

Speaker 1 And then I think 4th of July is when my mom told me

Speaker 1 that that was my my rifle.

Speaker 1 I was like,

Speaker 1 thanks for telling me.

Speaker 13 And who told you that? Your mom?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It made me look extremely bad to the state troopers.

Speaker 1 Me saying it wasn't mine, it turns out to be mine.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 It's been a stressful summer. There might have been some confusion if you've talked to the state troopers before.

Speaker 1 They first asked me what I did that Saturday night, and I couldn't remember to save my life.

Speaker 1 And so, on the spot, I've never talked to the state troopers like this about a missing person. So I

Speaker 1 made a dumb move and made up a story.

Speaker 1 That didn't help me at all.

Speaker 1 And then that rifle situation happened. Didn't help my case.
And then all eyes started turning on me, but I don't know the guy at all man.

Speaker 1 I wish I could help you guys.

Speaker 1 I'm with you in the same boat. I just want to find him.
I just want to know what happened.

Speaker 1 I wish I could tell you guys

Speaker 13 what did you tell the troopers that wasn't true?

Speaker 1 That I went down

Speaker 1 Down the Teller Road to a different bridge, but instead that we were on a Crew Park Road.

Speaker 13 I mean why not just tell them the truth because I mean nobody really cares.

Speaker 1 That's the thing though they did care and I couldn't remember.

Speaker 1 To this day I could barely remember.

Speaker 1 I mean yeah we're at the Grand Central Bridge

Speaker 1 but that night they were asking I could not remember at all.

Speaker 1 I was nervous because I was talking to them.

Speaker 1 I didn't have an answer for them. I should have said that, but

Speaker 1 I drew a blank and that came out.

Speaker 13 Your uncle's a long-time trooper, right? Lonnie Pesquella? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was my uncle Kevin that dropped the rifle off. Right.

Speaker 13 So you told them this thing that wasn't true and then what happened?

Speaker 1 They went straight to my friends and they asked and they got a different story so that's where it didn't make me look good. That's where I was lying to them.

Speaker 1 And then they came back to me after all the questions, and be like, well, we got the story from so-and-so. It doesn't match up with your story, what were you really doing?

Speaker 13 And what did you say at that point?

Speaker 1 I'm pretty sure it was the same thing. I just couldn't remember.

Speaker 13 But at that, you know, when they were talking to you, that would have been like two weeks after. So it was pretty close in time.
Why were you having trouble remembering?

Speaker 1 I honestly don't know, man.

Speaker 1 Two weeks ago, today, I can barely remember what I did.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 There was also an issue with

Speaker 13 apparently texting your friends to try and get them to create an alibi or you know to say that you were with them.

Speaker 13 What happened with that?

Speaker 1 I was just nervous, man. I didn't know how to deal with it.

Speaker 1 I was just trying to save my skin, but

Speaker 9 save your skin from what, though?

Speaker 1 From that lie.

Speaker 13 But it's not like you were doing anything wrong. It's not like you were out robbing a bank or anything.
You guys were just out doing stuff, so.

Speaker 1 I just, I didn't know how to handle it, man. This is the first time that I've dealt with something like this.
Kind of a young kid.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's it's just

Speaker 1 I don't know, I didn't know how to deal with it.

Speaker 13 And so did you did you end up telling the troopers that you had texted your friends to try and create this alibi?

Speaker 1 No, I think they

Speaker 1 came to that conclusion after they talked to my friends.

Speaker 13 And then did they come back and talk to you again about that?

Speaker 1 I believe so.

Speaker 13 The friends that you texted, was that Emory and Tyler or Cass and Cam or?

Speaker 1 It was Emery and Tyler.

Speaker 13 Then how were Cass and Cam involved?

Speaker 1 I'm not too sure. That's the first that I've heard of.
Their names being drawn in.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Were they out that bridge jumping that night, do you remember?

Speaker 13 I don't think so.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph out on the council road on Saturday or Sunday?

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 13 Do you know of anyone in Noam who is angry or upset with Joseph for some reason?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 13 So one of the other issues I wanted to ask you about, some of the family members when they were here searching had reported to the troopers that they saw injuries on your face.

Speaker 13 Can you tell me what those injuries were from?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I was playing catch with one of my friends out at the safety roadhouse.

Speaker 1 We were playing football and made the brash decision of diving for it on gravel.

Speaker 1 That's where these two come into play for the caught outputs.

Speaker 1 And then I scraped my face. Maybe I'll take a quick picture of those.

Speaker 13 That was out at the safety roadhouse.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can you turn your hands a little bit? There we go.

Speaker 1 And I just need to get kind of an overall picture over here if you can look up this way.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Is there any way I can pause this really quick and use the restroom?

Speaker 9 Yeah, no problem. Good point.

Speaker 1 My third cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tunderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay.

Speaker 2 The show is written by Payne Lindsey with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey.

Speaker 2 Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington.

Speaker 2 Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik Glenn, and Eric Quintana.
Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.

Speaker 2 Mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.

Speaker 2 Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes.

Speaker 2 For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 18 Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

Speaker 18 From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it.

Speaker 7 Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.