14 | The Alibi

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Thank you so much for listening.

Mighty Goso.

Thank you. Finding Joseph Hello? Hello? Hello? This is Finding Joseph Hotline.
Is anybody there? Hello? Hi? Hello? um, um, who are you trying to call? Um, nobody. We were just seeing if the, um, if the phone number will work.

For the 5D Joseph? Yeah.

Yes, this is the phone number. What were you guys calling for? We were just trying to call a missing guy.
A missing guy. We were just trying to call.
Okay.

Did you know something about a missing person?

So, my friend says he's seen him out at council.

What did you know?

I've seen him the last time before he started hiking.

Okay, when?

Like five, six years ago.

I saw him before he was leaving his truck.

But then I went to camp.

And then a week later,

I didn't see him anymore.

And then what?

I saw him.

But then I got to camp.

And then the day I came back,

I didn't see him.

Okay, where did you see him

getting out of his truck?

I don't remember.

I'm sorry for calling.

Bye. Do-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Do-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Do-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun Do-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun you The voice you heard on the other end of the call was computer generated for their own protection but it was an actual child who made that phone call We also chose to take out a few small details for now details details that we believe may be crucial to the investigation, which as I speak is very much active.
If you're tired of hearing the play-by-play events of the weekend Joseph went missing, trust me, I am too. But it's something I found myself coming back to over and over again, Because it just doesn't make any fucking sense.

And it's so very important. In every case, there's always inconsistencies.
But at what point do you say there are too many inconsistencies? Trying to connect the dots of every single thing that happened that weekend is like putting together IKEA furniture, meaning next to impossible. so impossible that in the nights that I've lost sleep about this, I've sat there pondering, why? It's almost as if it was meant to be confusing.
I truly try to stay as consciously objective as possible. But no matter how many angles I've looked at this, there are some major flaws and red flags in what people are claiming to have happened the weekend Joseph went missing.
But it wasn't until recently that things started to click. I found some tape from an interview the first PI conducted.
He's speaking to a man named Jim West. He's one of the guys who helped spearhead the search and rescue efforts for Joseph right after he went missing.
He's also the guy who ultimately towed Joseph's truck for police to examine,

which we know they didn't. The PI starts the conversation with Jim, laying out the days

and dates, just like you've heard a million times before. Because even eight years ago,

he sensed that something didn't make sense. And I'm ready to break this down for you.
Friday night, the 24th, the 25th would have been Saturday, the 26th would have been Sunday, and the 27th would have been Monday, which he didn't show up to work. Right, well, there was a wedding Sunday.
Sunday, guys coming back for the wedding early in the morning. They spot the truck coming back in.
Our family friend was getting married that day, so we were coming back in early Sunday the 26th. The reason it stood out, I mean, he was right on the edge of the road.
When you're going to go park off the road and go do something, you pull off. Hasty parking job.
Dan, you believe it's between 1040 and 1045 or 1040 and 1050? 1040, 1045. Sunday morning now, Trooper Cross went to his camp account.
On Sunday, Trooper Sergeant Cross saw the truck at 1 o'clock. A trooper sees his truck the same place at 1 p.m.
But then the P.I. Andy Klamzer talked to one of Joseph's co-workers and learned this.
I texted, hi Jake. Search and rescue needs to double check what day and time did he last see him.
Jake responded, it was about 1 o'clock p.m. on Sunday when I saw him leave.
Sunday. Sunday.
I texted back immediately, positive Sunday? He says positive. Sunday at 1 p.m.
Jake said he saw Joseph alive and well in the hallway of the home around 1.30 p.m. on Sunday.
Sunday. Sunday morning after Joseph had stopped responding to anyone.
Which would be a little out of his character. And then he was never heard from again.
But then Jake's story completely contradicts this. So Andy talked to Jake's mother, Bonnie.
Do you recall seeing him at any point during the weekend that he disappeared? Sunday, we were at camp. I'd seen his vehicle drive by.
We were outside working on the addition at camp and I remember saying, how do you mean he didn't stop? About what time was that? Three or four in the afternoon, probably. One more sighting.
But this time, Joseph's truck is moving, driving. Where was he heading? So did Jake mention to you seeing Joseph at the house Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon? So when I had called Jake and asked him, he said it had to be around one, and it was just in passing.
Remember anything else he said? He said, well, do you remember what he was wearing? He said, no, I mean, we didn't really even talk that much. I mean, the age gap was, is Jake still a young kid? Was, is, was.
Call me an overanalyzer, but recalling what your roommate was wearing the day that they went missing has nothing to do with how well you knew each other. If these accounts are true, then Joseph's just moving around all strange, completely ignoring the love of his life.
But as I dug deeper, I found another interview that honestly gave me goosebumps. We had one of the last debriefings and trying to go over different areas of what they covered, you know, and the question is, when was he last seen? In one of the briefings that we had, Bonnie stated very adamant that he was with Christine 1.30 to 3 on the beach Sunday.
Sunday or Saturday? I asked her point blank, was it Sunday? She says yes. So Bonnie states that she saw him on the beach Sunday.
She's very abrasive about that. She swears that the positive was Sunday.
So we're getting conflicting information right from the get-go. So I'm sitting there scratching my head again.
I said, okay. And then about that time, the family came in, and then she quieted up.
Jake said that he's seen him Sunday morning. So it doesn't make sense for the truck to be out there and him in town.
And I can't figure it out. Why would the truck be out there and him in town? She was very adamant.
Very adamant that it was Sunday. Bonnie.
Bonnie. That he was with Christine on the beach Sunday.
And then she started to back off that when family came around. When family came around.
Did that strike you as odd? Well, he filed it in the back of my head. I don't know.
It seems awful suspicious. If you were me, what would you want to do, knowing everything that's been done, where would you want to pick up?

I'd go back and I'd re-interview a roommate.

Jake?

I'd lean heavy on him.

Selena had noticed a bunch of scratches and stuff, rosy mark on his cheek.

Find out who in the hell he was with.

Seems awful strange. Jake continues to say that he observed Joseph coming out of his bedroom about 1.30 p.m.
on Sunday and leaving the house. So I called Jake a bunch of times, like 11 times, and he always had his phone set to not accept calls.
You know,

I feel pretty strongly that the most likely explanation for Joseph's disappearance is that

someone has done something to him. This show is sponsored by Liquid IV.
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Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Long before this season came out, I was actively trying to contact pretty much every single person in this case.
Jake being one of them. My first attempt to contact him was on December 6, 2023.
I got his phone number and I texted him. I said, hey Jake, this is Payne Lindsey.
Jake responds, who is this? Why are you trying to contact me?

So I said, again, my name is Payne Lindsey.

I hope all is well.

I'm an investigative journalist.

I tried to add you on Facebook recently.

Jake replied, yeah, why?

I don't know who you are.

Dude, I've told you who I was twice already.

I responded saying, yeah, we've never met.

I'm investigating the disappearance of Joseph.

I'd love to grab a few minutes of your time.

I think it's crucial to closing this case out.

Jake's response was, no thanks.

Alrighty.

Then I said, why is that?

I'm trying to help.

At this point, my eye messages were turning green.

So we obviously know what happened there. He blocked me.
It's at this point that it all starts to unravel. Alaska State Troopers went to Jake's residence.
It was partially recorded, and I say partially because it seems like some of it's missing. Maybe there was an error.
They discovered on his phone after

a forensic analysis that Jake had texted his friends, Emery and Tyler, trying to create an

alibi. I don't have all these texts, but I do have some of them.
He texted his friend saying,

I had to use you in a story for the state trooper. Friend responded, what did you say?

Jake responded, quote, that us three took a drive to Solomon at 8 p.m. and got back at 1 a.m.

This is supposed to be the Saturday night, the day before he went missing.

He asked what I did Saturday and if I saw him and whatnot.

Obviously, to the troopers, it looked like Jake was trying to set up an alibi.

So they talked to his friends Emery and Tyler, and they have no recollection of this trip, at least in the location that Jake's referring to. In Nome, Alaska, as a young adult, a popular thing to do is bridge jumping, jumping off bridges with your friends into the rivers outside the city.
This is what Jake alleged he was doing, but he felt the need to tell his friends that it happened in a place that it didn't, and during a period of time that is incorrect. When the troopers talked to Emery and Jake, they found out he lied about where he was going.
Where Jake initially claimed he was, out by Solomon, is hours away from where his friends say they were. So for whatever reason, Jake felt the need to lie about that.
This is where we all get to start paying attention. In some of this tape you've heard, but I'm about to play you the rest of it.
Jake, originally you told me that you went out for a drive. And then I talked to your buddies and they said that didn't happen.
They told me that you specifically went for a drive that way. And then they told me that they weren't with you or that didn't happen.
And then I talked to you and I learned that you were out bridge jumping, which is, you know, which is what Tyler had told me. But my issue is when confronted with, hey, what did you do last weekend? You know, I wouldn't say I went for a drive someplace I wasn't.
To me, it seems like either you're lying now because you're covering it, covering it for something that you don't want to tell us for that four hour period, or you were lying then, you know, when you told me that you went in a completely different direction with two guys that you weren't with. And either way, it doesn't sound like you're being 100% truthful with me.

In Jake's alibi text to his friends,

he told them to say they got back from bridge jumping at 1 a.m.

But when the troopers talked to his friend Tyler,

they learned a different time frame.

So now he's lied twice.

So what time was it that Tyler said they got back?

Tyler said they got back here around 20, 20, 100, yeah, so 8 o'clock.

So that's the time frame that, you know, when you guys got dropped off.

And you originally told me that you got back here sometime around 1.30,

and I can even say, you know, 12.30 is pretty damn close to 1.30,

but that's not close to 8 o'clock. So again, we're still back in that.

We got four or five hours in the evening that I'd love to know

Thank you. 12.30 is pretty damn close to 1.30, but that's not close to 8 o'clock.
So again, we're still back in that.

We've got four or five hours in the evening.

I'd love to know what you did.

Because I can remember what I did two weeks ago.

For you to go, I just don't remember when you remember right up to that point what happened from bridge jumping to 12.30.

We're talking about we've got a four or five hour gap in the evening. Four hour time gap where no one knows where Jake was.
The concern about the time gap from 8 p.m. to 1230 a.m., they couldn't make sense of it either.
But they knew at this point Jake had lied twice. But their third concern was where Jake was after midnight

you came back here at 1230 but what happened after you guys went and Tyler dropped you off

that's the question do you remember who you were with

I honestly don't I really cannot remember

so when you guys came back where did did you go? Did Tyler drop you off somewhere? Dropped you off here. He dropped you off here.
Did he drop you and Emery off together? Just me. Just you.
Did he drop Emery off at his house? Jake, what I'm trying to understand is if he dropped you off at midnight 30, he dropped you off, and then you said you made it home at midnight 30. So what was the rest of it, brother? What did you do the rest of the night? I honestly can't remember.
It's been so long. Were you drinking that night? Were you drunk when you came back? Or is there any other reason? Is there any reason why you don't remember? I don't.
So whatever timeline you want to believe here, or whoever's memory's messed up, there's still the huge question of where was Jake and what was he doing after midnight? The troopers then go back to Jake's claim that he saw Joseph at his house on Sunday. So at 1.30, you see Joseph kind of watching.
1.30 in the morning or 1.30 in the afternoon? In the afternoon. In the afternoon, okay.
I'm guessing you probably didn't sleep 13 hours if you came home at 12.

Or is that typical on the weekend for you to sleep that long?

I might have said it later.

Two, three.

Okay.

Just hanging out here?

Do you think you might have gotten enough sleep?

I honestly think so.

Okay.

13 hours of sleep.

Really?

On a Saturday night? In the summer? Hmm. Maybe.
But unlikely. You got dropped off.
And then... I mean, somebody's just gonna play video games.
Okay. Finally, Jake speaks.
Regardless of what happened during the day,

which is still an absolute mess

and full of lies and contradictory statements,

Jake does say that when his friend Tyler dropped him off,

he stayed at his house by himself

and played video games for the rest of the night.

The second private investigator, Andy Klamzer,

was on a mission.

He found Jake's friend Tyler, the one he had texted about making an alibi for Saturday.

And the last story that Jake settled on was that he was dropped off by Tyler at his house that night.

And from about midnight onward, he stayed at his house by himself and played video games.

Are you Tyler?

Yes.

No, I'm Andy Klamzer.

Nice to meet you.

Let's go upstairs to the conference room.

I'm a private investigator.

I'm a retired cop, and I've been doing this for about 20 years.

Probably 95% of what I do is just interview people.

Seems very odd that they didn't find anything out there.

That was a major search.

It's the 1st of October, 2016, 12.58 p.m.,

and we're at the Aurora Inn Conference Room in Nome,

according to an interview with Tyler Eide. So Jake had difficulty remembering events from Saturday or Saturday night.
Was he messed up that day? Was he, like drinking or? I don't think he was drinking.

Like I said, we went out bridge jumping every weekend.

So in the summertime, it's nice.

So I jumped in the water off the bridge.

Right.

So there's this whole issue with the text messages that Jake had sent. Do you still have any of those on your phone? I don't know.
I don't think so. Do you have your phone with you? Could you check real quick? All the way back there? No, I can't do that.
Even if you just check Jake's, there's that many? It'd take hours, probably.

I mean, me and him, we're best friends.

We talk every day.

We text every day.

So, I mean, did you think it was unusual

that Jake was trying to get people to say

they were with him Saturday night?

No, he wasn't doing that.

He wasn't doing that? Okay. What was going on there? Going on where? Where he was trying? Oh, the way that his story went? I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the trooper.
Jake didn't know what he was doing. Being stupid, and he had to come up with a story or something because, I don't know, I guess he just wanted the trooper out of his way or something.

And like I said, I told Tim Smith the truth, what I did,

and I just told you, I told you the truth.

I'm not going to lie to you guys.

This is somebody's life.

I'm not going to lie about that. Right.
And what did Jake say to you later about that whole thing? Because it was a little weird. Yeah, and about the trooper involvement there.
After Tim told me what Jake said, the next day when I went and saw Jake, he said, what the fuck were you thinking?

Don't just make something up.

Fucking tell him the truth.

Even if you don't remember what happened that day,

just tell him, hey, I don't remember what happened, what I did,

because, like I said, this is somebody's life we're dealing with.

Right.

What did Jake say?

He said, he's like,

all right, yeah, you're right.

Next time.

I don't know what I was thinking.

So I was like, yeah,

well, next time they come and talk to you,

you better tell the freaking truth. Did you pick up Jake and Emery on Saturday?

To go bridge jumping?

Yeah.

I think so.

So about what time did you guys get out to the bridge on Saturday, and about how long did you stay? I don't know. We stayed about all day.
Like I said, it was an all-day trip. And we met other people out there.

We probably left about three o'clock, three or four and then got back, I said 1030. So what did you do after getting back to Nome on Saturday night, like about 1030? I got it, Jake's.
I got it, Jake's.

Yeah, please. Like about 10.30.

Hung out at Jake's.

Hung out at Jake's?

Yeah, played some games.

Did you think you went back to Jake's that night?

Yeah, that's why I said we went there to play video games. How long do you think you were at Jake's Saturday night?

I don't know. I didn't have my time around.
Okay. A lot of these questions, I don't know why you're asking.
Saturday night is like a critical thing here with Joseph. And so I'm kind of leading up to asking some other questions about him, one of which is, on Saturday night, do you remember seeing him at all? No, like I said, I only seen him once, answered twice.
And that was long before this? About a month, month and a half before you were missing. Like I said, he was always in his room, door closed.
Even if we were in Jake's room, door was closed. Never saw a guy.
Any idea what time you left Jake's on Saturday night? No. Probably late at night.
When we start playing video games we stay. We play for a couple hours or so.
Probably more than that. Have you ever seen or used Jake's .308 rifle that his dad gave him the summer of 2015? I think his uncle gave it to him.
You ever shot it or used it? When I went to Moosun. When was that? When did Moosun open? It opened last month.
So after this guy went missing? Oh yeah, definitely. It was September when I went to.
Do you have any suggestions for people I should talk to about his disappearance? I don't know. You're definitely not talking to the right people, though.
Okay. People associated with Jake? Jake, myself, whoever.
We're wasting your time, you're wasting our time. We got no beneficial stuff for you.
If I had beneficial stuff for you, I'd definitely let you know. Like I said, this is somebody's life.
Nothing more I can tell you about it. You watched the movie The Fourth Kind?

Yes.

Well, maybe that's true.

The movie The Fourth Kind.

We've heard this before.

Deila mentioned it jokingly in regards to Florence Okpeolik's case.

Recapping Tyler's interview with Andy, there's now even more discrepancies.

Tyler says on Saturday the bridge jumping was an all-day event, and there were other people out there. Witnesses, apparently.
Ones that he couldn't name, though. He also said they got back around 10.30 p.m., which contradicts the time that it was once 8 p.m.
and the time that it was 1230 a.m., enough for me to say what the hell's going on here.

It seems like Tyler thinks the boogeyman got him.

Now, I'm sure most of us are sitting here shaking our heads and rolling our eyes,

which I am too,

but that statement alone isn't incriminating per se.

But as I've found more information,

odd things like this just keep connecting. And my secret friend from Nome, Alaska, had a new message for me, unprompted by me knowing this knowledge at all.
One night, we were all sitting around, talking about Joseph's disappearance, and the atmosphere was heavy, almost suffocating. Kim, who has been deeply affected, often couldn't hold back her emotions.
She just burst out to her sister Christine, demanding to know, why the fuck did you kill him? Right to her face, over and over again. It was a regular occurrence at family gatherings, and you could tell it was tearing that person apart.
His disappearance was baffling to many, and it sparked so many rumors. There was one rumor that Joseph might have been involved with the CIA

or maybe he had entered witness protection.

It sounded crazy, but at the same time, it wasn't just idle gossip.

People were connecting dots that led to some dark places.

The judge Joseph worked under had abruptly left town the same weekend joseph disappeared fueling suspicions that something within the court system might have played a role it was like peeling back layers of a rotten onion the more you uncovered the worse it smelled but despite the rumor mill, Jake always remained at the center of the storm. He was the last person to see Joseph, and that fact alone put a target on his back.
People kept pointing fingers at him, whispering about his strange behavior. He had started asking people for alibis, which only made him look more suspicious.
He wasn't sleeping, and the guilt seemed to be eating him alive. But was it guilt because he had something to do with Joseph's disappearance, or was it the crushing weight of being accused by everyone around him? That's what kept everyone on edge.
Nobody knew for sure, but the doubt was like a poison, seeping into everything. It was like a shadow that followed him everywhere, even when he tried to sleep.
Jake was suffering from nightmares that Joseph was coming back. Why would he be afraid of his roommate coming back? One night, Jake was really drunk and I brought up the reward money for Joseph.
Jake said, I think the Ishigox got him. Do you know the Ishigox pain? The Isha Gigox is a mythical creature rooted in Alaska native folklore.
A malevolent creature that roams the wilderness of Alaska. A shadowy figure with a form that shifts and changes in the darkness.
It is said to have a humanoid appearance. Glowing eyes that pierce through the night, long thin limbs that enable it to move quickly and silently through the tundra.
And Jake had suggested that this mythical creature may have taken Joseph. Jake said, maybe he chose the wrong door, and he's never coming back again.
That maybe Joseph had crossed into some other world. These sounded like his nightmares.
There was a story about a creek that had been raging with water one night, only to be completely dry by morning, despite it raining the entire time. It was as if the land itself had swallowed the water, leaving nothing behind.
Others talked about hearing strange noises in the wilderness. Things moving in the dark, unseen, but undeniably, there.
One person recounted seeing figures walking through the tundra,

figures that shouldn't have been there.

They slammed on their brakes, stared, and were sure they saw something.

But by the time they tried to make sense of it,

the figures were gone as if they had never been there at all.

The stories lingered in the air, each one adding to the growing sense of unease. No one could shake the feeling that something deeply wrong had happened to Joseph, something that went beyond the ordinary.

But then,

just as the conversation seemed to be spiraling into pure fear, it all began to circle back to Jake. He was at the center of it all.
Everyone's suspicions, everyone's doubts. Was he guilty?

Had he done something terrible?

Or was he just another victim,

caught in the web of everyone else's paranoia and fear?

What did Jake know?

What do you think he's hiding, Payne? Izhigak.

So the base word of izhigak is izhi,

which means eyes.

Many of these weirdo creatures or creepy things, they're always like alone. That kind of influences me in a way to think that being alone is wrong.
You can't survive by yourself. Here's Alice Knick Glenn, an Alaska native, who could tell me more about these mythical creatures and the stories told by their ancestors for generations.
Inupiaq people have lived in our area for thousands of years. We have a long history of oral traditional storytelling.
In the past, we didn't have written language. The way that we passed down information and lessons was through storytelling.
A lot of us younger folks grew up with our elders sharing stories. Some of them are wild, some of them are like unbelievable, but much of it has these intrinsic lessons weaved through each story.
You know, most of our Inuit legends were present more in the past prior to Western contact because with contact brought religion. suppressed a lot of our stories, our dances, our spirituality in that way.
We don't hear them as much because of religious influence. They're not gone.
They're still there, but you have to dig a little bit harder to find them. All of these stories still have specific influence and really

shapes who we are and the way that we live and interact with one another in the Arctic. And I never discount any story as being 100% untrue because there are always lessons to be found.
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We've got locals talking about portals, UFOs, referencing the mythical creatures in Alaska Native folklore as to what may have happened to them. Small towns always have stories.
But when someone goes missing and the explanations get this wild, we have to ask, why are so many people in this town more focused on otherworldly rumors than on finding Joseph? Or is it that only certain people are? Because Joseph's family and myself are not. I don't try to add to rumors.
My job 99% of the time is to listen. I sit across from people, microphone in hand, headphones on, and I just try to simply listen to what they have to say.
And having done this podcast since 2016, well, that's a while ago. I'd like to say I've learned a few things.
Because I can't arrest anybody, because I can get all the evidence one would ever need and present it in a silver platter to whichever authority it is, I can't make them do anything. But what I can do is share the truth from the people who care and expose the lies for everyone to hear.
Jake's whereabouts on Saturday are still a mystery. Well, sort of.

My new special friend delivered me a message that, in my opinion, blows this case wide open. It's the truth we're after, right? Not rumor.
What does it take to look into this case again? Maybe something like physical proof.

During the day, on Saturday, June 25th, I went bridge jumping.

But Jake was not there.

Later that Saturday night, I went to a party at a camp outside Nome.

The party was late.

It probably started around 10 or 11 p.m, and went until 4 or 5 in the morning. It was some sort of wedding celebration or something, and there were a lot of people there.
Jake was at this party. I know that for certain, because I talked to him, face to face for over 30 minutes.
Just me and him.

I was having a drink, standing by a keg at the party,

and that's when Jake first approached me.

We talked for a while, then eventually, we walked off on our own.

It's a little fuzzy because I had been drinking, but I remember we had a very long conversation off to the side.

And then he kissed me.

I was standing by my friend's car, still talking to Jake, and some of my friends came up to us.

They wanted to go home.

It was pretty late at this point, at least 2am in the morning. I left and went home, but Jake stayed at the party.
If everyone's putting pressure on Jake to have an alibi for Saturday night, why didn't he mention this to anyone? There were so many people at this party. So many witnesses saw Jake there.
It's sketchy that he would lie about this. Tons of witnesses.
And the funny thing is, that summer, I kept a journal. And I wrote down everything I did, every day, that entire summer.
Would you like to see see that pain but it's not just my journal

or the witnesses that prove that jake was there that night i have video proof he was there i have a video I have a Snapchat video, and in it you clearly see him.

It even has the date and time stamp on it. 12.38 am in the morning, that Saturday night.
Why would he lie about this too, Payne?

Alright, this will be an interview between Andy Klamzer and Jake.

Is it Stetton Benz?

Yes, sir.

And today's date is the 30th of September.

So, can you tell me how well you knew Joseph?

Thank you. And today's date is the 30th of September.
So can you tell me how well you knew Joseph? Um. If you want to dive in deeper into the conversation of this season, go join our Discord.
The link to it is in the episode description.

You can follow me on Instagram

at PayneLindsey and at UpAndVanished.

And for ad-free listening of UpAndVanished

and every other Tenderfoot TV show,

subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts

or just go to tenderfootplus.com.

There's a $50,000 reward.

Come get it. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey.
Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney.
Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner.
Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique Glenn, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mix and Mastered by Cooper Skinner.
Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team.
Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favourite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.
Thanks for listening. Hi, I'm Grace, host of Red Rum True Crime Podcast.
These cases focus on the true victims of crime. Why not jump in at episode 114, the tragic murder of Jasmine and Aaliyah.
The main suspect in this case gave an extremely bizarre interview to a number of press reporters whilst he was drunk and reportedly high. He speaks about an awful lot on camera and has this completely inappropriate laughing and chuckling response when talking about the case.
He may even have thought he was going to get away with the

double murder he'd been accused of but what he didn't know was that two undercover officers

were on their way to catch him out and he easily and willingly took the bait. You can find us

wherever you get your podcasts just search red rum true crime that's red rum murder backwards