11 | Who Do You Think They Were?

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Thank you so much for listening. and nobody would have known about it.
He pulled out a knife. This guy, his name starts with J.
What was the name that you knew him by? Oregon John. I was the last person to see her alive, besides the guy that killed her.
The more you look into it, the more unanswered questions and red flags there were. Everybody was pretty consistent about what they said about Joseph.
You're dealing with a successful professional person who just vanishes. The state's conclusion, he had been attacked by a bear, and they just didn't find the body.
There's going to be parts and pieces that the bear is not interested in. Yeah, they don't have to leave half of a carcass.
Either he doesn't want to be found or someone doesn't want him to be found. So you guys were never boyfriend-girlfriend then? No, we were just friends.
Him and I, just friends, better off friends. Do you still have the texts that you can refer to? No, because my phone got...
Everything I had on my phone was gone.

The roommate lied about his whereabouts on Saturday night.

There was also an issue with apparently texting your friends

to try and get them to create an alibi.

I was trying to save my skin.

So you're just kidding from what, though?

It's not like you were doing anything wrong.

Um...

If you come to know him, you're not gonna go very far.

You can go about 90 miles that way, and 90 miles that way, and about 75 that way, and that's it. When I first touched down in Nome, about two years ago now, the first person I met was this guy.
Literally on the plane there, and within the first hour of me being there, he was talking to me on record. They haven't found a body.
They haven't found anything.

The evidence is gone.

You sure about that?

What does that tell you?

She's not there.

There's a lot of people that come up to hide.

Because you can disappear up here if you wanted to.

I've been a gnome now for 25 years. There's a lot of people that show up here.
All of them are chasing the yellow garden. I mean, you can go out here in this driveway here and dig a bunch of dirt up, you'll find gold in it.
— He's a gold miner who's been there for two decades. And he seemed to hear a lot of talk in the town about Florence Okpeolek's disappearance.
West Beach, there was a lot of people out there looking for her. All the way up through that country.
I don't know the parameters of who she was with or what, you know. But I do know that she was supposedly last seen with this guy.
They found her things in his tent. Do you know who that guy may have been? No.
I don't know the guy's name. I don't even, I'm just an old man.
Yeah. And I think logically, I'm a logical thinker.
She could have wanted him to the wrong tent. Some people don't like that.
Drive down the damn beach and you just see somebody walking along and jump out and kill them. That don't make any sense either.
You must have had some interaction with her. And the people on that beach is the ones that had interaction with her.
Where the guy went, I don't know. But he's not here.

No, he's not, no. I don't know where he went, but I do know that if I was an investigator,

I'd be on his ass like stink on shit. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun, Chapter 2.
I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Where the guy went, I don't know.
Kind of hard to forget this guy. An old town miner in Nome who seems to have heard all the chatter.
But he's not here. No, he's not in Nome.
I don't know where he went, but I do know that if I was an investigator, I'd be on his ass like stink on shit. I love that line.
And he was right. He was not in Nome.
He was in Ketchikan, Alaska. And he goes by the name of Oregon John.
I was gold money. That's what I was doing in Nome for four years.
I was driving a taxi cab up in Nome. You've been to Nome.
Let's revisit my interview with John for a second. Why'd you want to get out of there eventually? I had the legal issues, remember? A girl came and hung out in my tent one night, and she walked off somewhere, and somebody kidnapped her.
And looted her. And yeah, yeah, she passed out, and in the morning, I woke up and she was gone, but I left her shoes and her phone.
Well, there was no trace of it. Why did they fucking think you did it then? Because I was the last person known to have seen her alive.
She just vanished. And they thought I didn't, so I bounced.
I was the last person to have seen her alive, besides the guy that killed her. Besides the guy who killed her.
We'd go on all day about the things that John said that don't sit well with me. But going back and listening again, something did stand out to me.
Noam is corrupt, you have no idea. Three times in the last 12 years, the law enforcement department has been shut down and taken over by the feds.
They are so corrupt up there, dude, it's crazy. You know about the judge that disappeared, right? No, they're not.
Yeah, yeah, they fed him to the bears. He's talking about Joseph.
Weirdos moved to Alaska, to be weird. Look, 80% of the people that killed us here, nobody finds out.
In unsolved murder cases, the inevitable always happens. The conspiracy theories.
The cops did it. They are in on it.
This person's a suspect. That person's a suspect.
But rarely are any of those things actually true. On that first day in Nome, I talked to Ray for about two hours, and he was very well aware of Joseph Balderas' disappearance too.
If a bear's going to eat you, he's not going to eat your tennis shoes. I just don't think that's what happened to him.
I don't know how animals are. When a bear eats you, you're going to eat something.
I've seen people getting eaten up here before, you know,

and there's something always left.

What I think happened to him

is he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The guy was just in the wrong place, I think.

Maybe he walked in on drug deals going on or something like that,

and they just... That happens.
Do I think they'll ever find him? No. People hunt, they fish here.
Somebody will come across something if it was there. I don't think he's there.
I think he's in the ocean somewhere.

There's all kinds of things that can happen to you here.

We can go right back to Adam and Eve.

Cain and Abel.

The human species is the only species that will kill for no reason.

We're not kind people.

I just see it.

I see it.

Death don't mean anything. Why is that? Because it's on TV.
You watch a crime story or a detective story, there's always somebody getting killed. But you never see the end result of that.
The family, the people that are affected by that guy's death. Death to these people don't mean anything.
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. You're referring to Joseph's case? Yeah.
I've never heard of him being involved in drugs. What I hear, he never was that way.
But his roommate was. Why in the hell would you drive out there? I mean, I sure in the hell ain't gonna drive clear out there.
I can see everything I want to see from the road. That's suspect to me.
I don't think he's there. His car's there.
If I did the guy in, I guess I'd drive his car up there and make it look like he got lost.

When he disappeared, there was lots of people looking for him.

If he'd been eaten by a bear, they would have found something.

And I think his car was driven out there.

Joseph dropping out of communication with his fiancée early in the morning on Saturday, June 25th, then his truck surfacing 40-plus miles outside the city, parked in a strange spot. It's just a flat-out confusing set of circumstances.
But with no body in this case, Joseph's truck remains a central piece of evidence. I don't know, it seems awful suspicious.
Without a piece of anything to go on, other than his truck. This is Jim West, a known local who was helping spearhead the search back in the day.
The first private investigator interviewed Jim a few weeks after Joseph disappeared. We've been taught at Search and Rescue that the last person is going to be seen within about a mile or half a mile of his truck.
And we covered all that area, big time. You towed it, correct? I towed it, yes.
Did you notice anything suspicious about the truck? There was flowers on the windshield. There was no evidence of foul play or anything like that.
There were several sightings of Joseph's truck that weekend, some of which don't seem to really align. But the thing is, sometimes eyewitnesses can just be wrong.
But not everybody. Not much of evidentiary value was ever found in Joseph's vehicle.
But his cell phone is missing along with him. And it's not the only important thing missing.
In March of 2016, about two months before Joseph went missing, he went to a local outdoor store in Nome and purchased a handgun, a Taurus PT-111 G2 subcompact 9mm. But according to Joseph's friends and family, he wasn't really that into guns.
So was it for protection? Just to fire off rounds in the wilderness? We don't really know. What we do know is that it's missing, along with its traveling case.
Where'd it go? According to the Alaska State Troopers' report, upon their first visit inside Joseph's home, they noted, quote, no signs of foul play, no blood, broken objects, bleach, freshly cleaned areas, etc. But they did notice a full box of American Eagle 9mm ammo in Joseph's room in exactly one round was missing from the ammo box.
But the state troopers didn't seem to find this interesting at all. Both the gun and the case are missing.
Not only was his gun missing, this new handgun that he had purchased, but the case for the handgun was missing. I think that's a very significant fact.
The troopers didn't even enter that handgun into the computer system, missing or stolen. Why would they do that? They weren't interested in it.
I mean, this is just my impression. The case was done, they had moved on, and they didn't want to reopen it and do more work on it.
It's just been completely overlooked. The missing gun and the case that went with it is really significant, I think.
I mean they just completely ignored the whole issue. These are big leads to follow up on in a missing persons case.
What did that tell you? That somebody stole the gun. He's missing and somebody stole the gun.
Something happened to him and his gun and the case disappeared. So what kind of scenario did those feel for you in your head? That he was murdered.
Let's go back to Christine for a second and the whole frustrating story about her cell phone. In one version, Christine says that her brother punched in her password and then somehow disabled her phone.
My brother had picked up my phone because I was in one of the races. He was wanting to record it, so he flipped up and took a picture or recorded it or something.
And then my brother is a jackass who likes to fuck with things. And so he punched in my password and disabled my phone.
And so I had to restore it as a new phone. I have an iPhone, like a lot of us do.
And here's how this actually works. After you punch in the wrong passcode six times, the phone will lock you out for one minute.
On the seventh, five minutes. Eighth, 15 minutes.
Ninth, one hour. And finally, if you put the wrong passcode in ten times in a row, it will permanently lock you out.
Her brother must have been a pretty fast typer. What's interesting is that, at the time, Christine had an iPhone 6s, one of the last iPhones that you could unlock with a thumbprint.
So her brother disables it because he doesn't know her PIN code, but then all of a sudden, she couldn't remember her PIN code either? I'm confused. Who exactly disabled the phone? He disabled it, and I couldn't remember my PIN code because on the iPhones I could use my thumb.
And so that's what I was using. And so he disabled it, so every PIN code I thought it would be, I used, and it wasn't, so it ended up disabling it.
When it comes to Christine restoring her iPhone, we could split hairs on this all day. The bottom line is, it's fucking weird.
So her phone is erased immediately after Joseph disappears. Her entire phone is erased.
That is a little bit concerning. Maybe it's odd timing, or maybe not.
But if you start looking around at other places, people like Joseph's roommate Jake start to feel like a bigger part of this story. The roommate was interviewed right away, told the troopers he was gone Saturday night with friends, but that he saw Joseph the next morning walking down the hallway in the house.
Sunday morning, after Joseph had stopped responding to anyone, he's the only person who claims to have seen Joseph on Sunday. So if his roommate Jake is telling the truth, he's the last person to see Joseph alive.

Here's Joseph's sister, Selena.

Everything doesn't add up. All the inconsistencies.

He saw him mourning with the backpack whenever somebody else witnessed the truck already planted out there on mile 44.

But all the other sightings from different people who aren't related, they don't connect.

They're all different timings.

His roommate Jake has stuck with this story of seeing Joseph on Sunday, 24 hours after anyone else had heard from him. The private investigator Andy asked Christine about this.
Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph or the truck back in Nome after Saturday afternoon? Not that I know of. I mean, Jake had just moved in to my grandma's house, my cousin.
And I don't know, and I've never talked to Jake about what he saw or what he thought. Why not? Joseph and Jake, I don't know if they really talked.
It was just like a cordial, oh, hey, roommate, you know, type of thing, but I don't know. Andy Klamzer interviewed one of Joseph's co-workers, who had some more insight on Jake and Joseph's relationship.
Had Joseph said anything to you about his roommate, Jake Stetton- He said Camille he's awfully quiet we don't talk

I don't know what to do with him I said have you tried he said yeah he just comes and goes he has a dog that's messy into the garbage all the time he was messy and had a dog and was very

strange to me.

He said, but other than that, we're ships in the night. Jake was a lot younger than Joseph and seemed to throw parties a lot at the house.
And according to friends and family, Joseph didn't really like this. Not to mention, he wasn't paying his bills either.
Joseph mentioned to a co-worker on Friday, June 24th, that he was really upset about Jake using up all the internet and not paying for it. And this comment seemed out of character for him.
However you slice it, there was clearly some tension there. Aside from Joseph's handgun, which is currently still missing,

when the police originally searched his house,

they took photos and notes of what they saw.

But when they came back about a week later,

they noticed something that wasn't there beforehand.

A rifle.

There was a weapon involved.

When a trooper went into the room, he didn't see anything. And then all of a sudden, when he goes back into the room, there was a weapon involved.
When a trooper went into the room, he didn't see anything.

And then all of a sudden, when he goes back into the room, there was a rifle.

Inside Joseph's room?

Are you solid on that?

Solid on that.

When they asked his roommate Jake about it, he claimed he didn't know whose it was.

What do you mean? They found a rifle in his room. Jake's uncle put it there.
Kevin. Kevin would be his uncle.
What's the uncle's name? Kevin Piscoya. It was eventually learned that Jake's uncle, Kevin, had just mysteriously put it there, unbeknownst to Jake himself.
Who just sets guns in people's houses and not tell them?

Kevin Pascoya is a former officer that was fired.

Why would he place a gun in somebody else's room after the guy went missing?

Andy Clamzer briefly talked to Jake when he was a gnome and asked about this rifle.

So when the rifle got dropped off here, was it in the case?

It was in the case, but I should give you that. Okay.
So have you ever shot it? I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead asked about this rifle. This became a topic of interest on their conference calls, too.
Here's Selena. Did anyone ever follow up on that second firearm? Joseph had two firearms.
I mean, we know about the 9mm. Was there a second that's unaccounted for? Said that we found a rifle in his house.
We showed up and there was no rifle. We showed up again and there was a rifle.
So there's this disappearing and reappearing rifle that Jake at first claims wasn't his, only to find out later it actually was his, but he just didn't know how it got there. What? Andy asked the state trooper Sergeant Cross about this.
The family and the attorneys were confused about the issues surrounding the .308 rifle that Kevin Piscoya put in the storage area after Joseph disappeared. It seemed odd to them that Jake wouldn't recognize the rifle, which had been given to him as a gift by his father.
A 20-year-old who was given a nice rifle by his dad as a gift the year before, why would he not recognize it? Do you recall anything about that? I don't know why he wouldn't recognize it, because it's a social model. Okay.
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That's reputationdefender.com slash success. Pretty much right away after he went missing, the family went out to Nome.
One of the family members talked to the roommate. Here's Joseph's sister, Selena, recalling her first visit to Nome.
We went to the search, the first search. We were sitting with his mother and Christine's parents.
And this boy comes in and talks to Bonnie. She's referring to Jake, Joseph's roommate.
But at the time, she didn't know that. I didn't know that was her son.
Bonnie is his mother. Here's Joseph's mom, Nelda.
It was a room full of people that just shook his hand, looked up, and saw him. He had scratches all over his face.
It looked like somebody grabbed your face and scratched you. You would follow up on that.
You'd talk to the people who were with him. Did something happen? Did his face get scratched? I mean, this is police work 101.
It could have just been something that happened innocently. Or it could have meant that he was in a fight.
Something happened between him and Joseph, and Joseph fought back that could explain the scratches. I asked him to take pictures of his face.

You're his mother.

What's your motherly instinct about what may have happened?

Somebody did harm to him.

It was no fair.

He didn't get lost.

Somebody did harm to him.

The scratches on Jake's face seemed fresh.

And at the time, they didn't even know he was his roommate. As they started putting two and two together, this became much more concerning.
When we realized that was his roommate, everything's starting to look shady now. I told Cross, you need to interview him.
You need to go see. It feels like everybody's connected.
Everybody's scared. You live in this small city.

You can't get out of this small town.

And many of the people that I have talked to that have told me things are very scared.

When we first met Joseph's sister, Selena, and his mother, Nelda,

we were at their home in Lubbock, Texas.

For years, they had their own tip line, and Selena would answer every single call.

One call in particular really stood out to her.

Finding your hotline?

Yeah, hi. I was calling to, I guess, report some crews.

Okay, what would you like to report?

Okay, I was in Nome in August.

Talked to everybody that I could talk to about it.

Nobody thought he got sticking by a bear.

Nobody feels like he went out into the wilderness.

I know he had also had a relationship with Christine Pascoya.

Her relationship with Joseph, was it friendly? Was it intimate? Her sister had said that they were boyfriend and girlfriend. And I know the family was kind of putting a squeeze on him to kind of hook up with her.
He went to their house for dinner and family dinners, and they treated him kind of like family. I talked to .
She works at the Native Village at Council, and Jake Stanton Benz works there. She told me that he let him know he could go help in the search, and he said no.
She asked him again a day later, and he said no. Just so you know, I don't even know the guy.
I know they were roommates. Do you feel like there's a reason why he didn't go help? Well, I don't know.
We were his roommate, so... And then he made a point to say that he didn't know him.
So I don't know if anybody's asked him if he didn't go help because he had to work. Because his supervisor told him he could go help twice.
And then he said, no, and know i don't even know him i've also talked to and i said do you know what happened and he said well we were out earlier that night and he said we got separated about nine but i can tell you that he was out till 3 a.m. and Jake had a party that night at his house.
The weekend he went missing. Do you know if there was anybody else living in that house? Or to your knowledge, it was just Jake and Joseph? No, and Kevin Cascoya.
Jake's uncle. Was there a third roommate in the house, too? This would change things.
I've been really nervous to call, but I just kind of felt really strongly about the weird feeling I got from, you know, Carol Pascoya and Bonnie. She's referring to Jake and Christine's family.

From her impression, their behavior just seemed a little off.

They were really chatty, and typically they're the kind of people that are really kind of standoffish. And just the more I kind of started asking around, it became clear that there was something

like they're covering up for each other or something.

I can't explain it.

The parents of Christine,

they suddenly kind of

gravitated toward

being more

friendly with the

old man of gnome.

I mean, being overly social, I guess, in a way. Trying to establish some sort of credibility or something.
There's a lot of things that need to be cleared up in this case. Why is it that so many details are just inconclusive? I'm holding back as much as I can to not fall down all these rabbit holes.
But some of them seem actually worth exploring. It's time to dig a little deeper and push for our own tips.
About a year ago, we made our own tip line for Florence Okpialik and Joseph Walderis, and we put up a $50,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. We did not put this number out publicly, but it's very easy to find if you live in Nome.
For months and months, we got nothing.

Not a single call.

But then seemingly out of the blue,

I started receiving very cryptic anonymous messages.

Payne, I want to stay anonymous,

but I have a lot to tell you. I knew Kevin Piscoya,

and I don't know why nothing came out about his dark past. He was crazy.
One time Kevin told me something weird. He said, I know how to make people disappear.
I used to be a cop. He was always anxious, always angry.

On Saturday, June 25th, I was driving out, it was around 3 or 4 p.m., and that's when we saw Joseph's truck.

It was off the road, down the hill,

and there were two men standing next to the vehicle.

One was tall, and the other was shorter.

One had a black jacket, the other a blue one.

Both doors of the truck were open, and they had their backs to us, and hoods covering their faces.

They clearly didn't want us to see them.

I never told the police this.

Who do you think they were, Payne?

Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay.
The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.
Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner, with additional editing by Dylan Harrington.
Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik-Glen, and Eric Quintana.
Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.
Mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.
Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes.
For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.
If you want to be a bigger part of the discussion here, go join the Up and Vanish Discord. We put a link to it in the episode description.
Hi, I'm Grace, host of Red Rum True Crime Podcast. These cases focus on the true victims of crime.
Why not jump in at episode 114, the tragic murder of Jasmine and Aaliyah. The main suspect in this case gave an extremely bizarre interview to a number of press reporters whilst he was drunk and reportedly high.
He speaks about an awful lot on camera and has this completely inappropriate laughing and chuckling response when talking about the case. He may even have thought he was going to get away with the double murder he'd been accused of but what he didn't know was that two undercover officers were on their way to catch him out and he easily and willingly took the bait.
You can find us wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Red Rum True Crime.
That's Red Rum, murder backwards, R-E-D-R-U-M, true crime. Well, I just found out that my dad lived a secret life as a hitman for the Chicago Mafia for all these years.

It doesn't make any sense.

He was a firefighter paramedic.

How the hell can he be a hitman?

I need answers, so I am currently on a plane back to Chicago to interview everybody.

Anybody that knows anything about this.

I'm in shock.

This is absolutely insane.

I just don't understand.

I need to figure this out.

The shocking new true crime series, Crook County, from Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts is available now. Binge the entire series for free on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts.