LIVE from Mexico with Brandi and Catherine Carlile

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Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Get ready for today.

Speaker 2 Today's episode

Speaker 2 comes to you

Speaker 2 from Mexico.

Speaker 3 It's so exciting.

Speaker 2 We are in Mexico at

Speaker 2 a festival, a music festival, started by and run by our dear, dear friends, Brandi Carlisle and Catherine Carlisle. We've recorded a live episode for you.

Speaker 2 This is the first time we've ever done a big live recording of We Can Do Hard Things with a huge audience, thousands of people.

Speaker 2 There were thousands of people there who were at this recording with me, Abby, Brandi, and Kath. Sister was not there, but it still was beautiful because of the energy of this festival.

Speaker 2 What you need to know, Pod Squad, is that

Speaker 2 it was during inauguration weekend. Yeah.
During inauguration weekend, we were in Mexico with thousands and thousands and thousands of queer,

Speaker 2 beautiful human beings who were just hell-bent

Speaker 2 on not just resistance, but creating what we discuss in this episode as

Speaker 2 an irresistible revolution, which is Tony Cade Bambara's beautiful call to us that we not just resist, we do resist, but we don't just resist.

Speaker 2 We become a movement that is so beautiful and full of life and humanity and love that we become irresistible. And just.

Speaker 6 That is what girls just want a weekend.

Speaker 2 It is. It's crazy.
It is. And we are so excited for you to listen to this hour with these thousands of gorgeous, irresistible human beings.

Speaker 2 What I want to tell you before you listen is just a couple warnings, okay?

Speaker 2 First of all.

Speaker 2 I felt really excited because I met this incredible band full of three three gorgeous human beings inside and out. Their name is Muna.

Speaker 8 Yeah, the band is Muna.

Speaker 5 They're incredible.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 2 And in the episode, I say it's because there were thousands of people there.

Speaker 9 I just want to preface, like, just the on stage with doing this in front of a lot of people, you just were all riled up.

Speaker 2 I was all riled up. And I said that Muna is my sexuality.
Okay. And then everyone just started freaking out.

Speaker 2 And I, Pod Squad, if you were there, I could see everyone's faces and Brandine Kath and Abby. And I felt like, why is everyone making a big deal out of this?

Speaker 2 Later, okay, what I meant is that the Muna is three different vibes. There's three people in the group, and one, they all have different like gender and sexuality expression.

Speaker 2 And what I meant was my expression of my sexuality is Muna.

Speaker 2 And the reason I'm making a big deal out of this introduction is because I felt like what I said was like I'm attracted to each of them, which would be fine, except I don't want to be objectifying these love bugs.

Speaker 2 Like I didn't mean to to objectify them. I actually just want to be their queer elder auntie, which I also express in this.
I meant my sexuality expression

Speaker 2 is embodied in all three of them.

Speaker 9 Yeah. And just like, don't worry, folks.
I was sitting right there the whole time.

Speaker 10 I don't believe that Glennon wants Muna as her sexuality okay i believe that things

Speaker 2 are fluid and glennon has the right to say and be whoever she is thank you and then i want to say one other thing before the pod squad listens is that there was this moment where all of this is about muna but i said that what i loved about muna was that their expression of queerness is so joyful.

Speaker 2 And sometimes I feel like it's such a beautiful thing for young queer people to just see the joy because there's always in queer art, there's so much tragedy and trauma and that is real too.

Speaker 2 But in songs like Silk Chiffon, it's just so gorgeous to see artists saying, queerness is fun and beautiful and not, doesn't have to have the trauma.

Speaker 2 And that actually was Tish's thought, but I didn't say it because I was afraid. that I mean, Tish was sitting right there.

Speaker 15 Oh, you stole it from her.

Speaker 2 I basically stole it from Tish.

Speaker 2 But the reason why i didn't say that it was tish is because she was sitting right in the front row and i didn't have her permission to say it so

Speaker 2 afterwards i asked her if i could say it was her idea and she said yes so anyway good luck with all that but tell them who comes out and opens the event for us oh and you all okay so we're about to record we're in this place with thousands of people brandy and kath are there and then brandy and tish go out on stage and together sing the we can do hard things song to open open up the whole thing.

Speaker 2 And you all are about to hear that now.

Speaker 6 Oh, thank you for coming in out of the sun for a little while to join us and

Speaker 6 do some soul work.

Speaker 6 Sing along if you know this song.

Speaker 2 You do.

Speaker 4 I walk through fire, I came out

Speaker 6 the other side.

Speaker 4 I chased desire, I made sure

Speaker 4 I got what's mine.

Speaker 4 And I continue

Speaker 4 to believe

Speaker 4 that I'm the one for me.

Speaker 4 And because

Speaker 4 I'm mine

Speaker 4 I walk the line

Speaker 4 Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on back

Speaker 4 The final destination

Speaker 4 we lie

Speaker 4 We stopped asking directions

Speaker 4 to places they've never been.

Speaker 4 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 4 We'll finally find

Speaker 4 our way back home.

Speaker 4 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 4 that our lives bring,

Speaker 4 we can do hard things.

Speaker 4 I hit rock bottom. It felt like a brand new start.

Speaker 4 I'm not the problem.

Speaker 4 Sometimes things fall apart.

Speaker 4 And I continue

Speaker 4 to believe

Speaker 4 the best

Speaker 4 people are free.

Speaker 4 and it took some time.

Speaker 4 But I'm finally

Speaker 4 fine.

Speaker 4 Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks, I'm back.

Speaker 4 The final destination

Speaker 4 you at.

Speaker 4 We've stopped asking directions

Speaker 4 to places they have never been.

Speaker 4 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 4 We're finally finding our way back home.

Speaker 4 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 4 that our lives

Speaker 4 bring,

Speaker 4 we can do hard things.

Speaker 4 Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaking

Speaker 4 back.

Speaker 4 We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

Speaker 4 We've stopped asking directions

Speaker 4 to places

Speaker 4 they've never been.

Speaker 4 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 4 We'll finally find

Speaker 4 our way back home.

Speaker 4 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 4 that our lives bring,

Speaker 4 we can do hard things.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we

Speaker 4 do hard

Speaker 4 things.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we all

Speaker 4 do hard things.

Speaker 16 Tish Melton everybody give it up for our nerds.

Speaker 6 She got so nervous right before and then she's just like

Speaker 6 unstoppable.

Speaker 2 We call it skited in our family, you know, when you're half scared, half excited, and you can't decide which one?

Speaker 4 Skited.

Speaker 2 Well, welcome to We Can Do Hard Things, everybody.

Speaker 18 Do they know that this is an actual podcast that we are recording that will literally be on the We Can Do Hard Things podcast feed?

Speaker 2 And it's the first podcast we've ever recorded outside of our son's bedroom.

Speaker 21 That is true. That's true.
We've been there, it's true.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So this is different.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the reason we decided to do this is because we don't have a more special place or experience than this weekend. This is a bit of a...

Speaker 15 It's our North Star every year now.

Speaker 22 Now that we've been, this is our second year and we're coming every year.

Speaker 19 I hope we get invited.

Speaker 2 So we wanted to tell...

Speaker 2 The pod squad about it. We wanted to tell the people who listen all over the world every week about this place and you, people.

Speaker 2 And so we're here with two of the most important people in our hearts and lives. You know them.
They're Brandy and Kath. They're here.

Speaker 23 Brandy Carlisle and Katherine Carlisle, for those listening.

Speaker 2 And one of the reasons why I'm excited to do this is because

Speaker 2 Brandi and Kath are hard to give compliments to. There's some kind of like Teflon situation that happens where I don't know if they're just so used to hearing gratitude and awe from people.

Speaker 2 And so I just actually had to make it my, like I needed you to be on my show so I could tell you things and you'd have to sit there.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 2 What I'd like to do first

Speaker 2 is to ask Brandy first

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 use whatever language is available to you in this moment to try to describe to the pod squad what Girls Just Want a Weekend is. What is this? What is happening?

Speaker 4 Exactly.

Speaker 5 Good luck.

Speaker 6 I mean I just have to start by saying it's just so important to me.

Speaker 6 I need it so much as a reminder of how people can be when they get together en masse and how, you know, we were talking earlier about swarm intelligence, how you see these flocks of birds change direction, and you're like, How are they communicating with each other, you know, or flying fish or bees or something like that?

Speaker 6 And there's just something beautiful about the fact that we are meant to be innately connected to one another

Speaker 6 and spiritually aligned. And we come to this place and everybody just gets it.
And even the new people, you just get here and you get it. It's a little culty, but it

Speaker 6 that just doesn't bother me. I think it

Speaker 21 that doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 6 I just think it's innately good. You know, I was telling Shania the other night because Shania was just like, hasn't ever seen anything like this before.

Speaker 6 And, you know, I'm always a little worried about what outsiders are going to think when they come in and see how we all behave for four days.

Speaker 6 But she was pretty stoked and I was trying to tell her I was like, you know, when Lilith Fair came to town in like 1997,

Speaker 6 and I was like 16 or 17 years old. And it was like kind of the first big thing I got to do on my own with like a group of friends.

Speaker 6 And we were in this little sapphic rock band and just like living our best lives in the sun at Lilith Fair. And I remember I had like money to buy like a...

Speaker 6 big gulp-sized mountain dew and I was all sunburned like a baby dyke with like my hair all cut short.

Speaker 6 And I remember like just standing in this line to go get my mountain dew and there was this woman that was just like honey come here and she just put sunscreen all over my shoulders

Speaker 6 and she said

Speaker 6 you can buy one thing with that money and that's water

Speaker 6 and I was like I'm not gonna get away with shit here like

Speaker 6 But there was just something about, and then it was like all her friends were the same, and they're, you know, and then I met somebody all that was like, well, who were you with?

Speaker 6 You need to sit with us, you know, like there was just this thing that was taking place where women were put into positions of agency autonomy and power something happens to the people that go to support that and I think that that might be minimizing what's happening here because I'm learning that it might be more powerful than that but it has something to do with it and I've kind of feel like I'm 16 again every time I'm here

Speaker 2 how does it make you feel Kath

Speaker 2 First of all, this is terrifying.

Speaker 21 Speaking of hard things, I don't know whose idea it was to give me a microphone and have me talk.

Speaker 21 But seriously, I just feel really proud, just proud of the lineup, proud of the work and effort it takes for our incredible crew and team to put this on. There are so many people responsible for this.

Speaker 21 Special shout out to Snelly Cat.

Speaker 21 She's out there somewhere.

Speaker 21 And just really proud of the community that really built this. Because people keep saying, this is so amazing what you and Brandy have built here.
And I say, It's not us,

Speaker 4 it's you.

Speaker 21 It's you. And for as long as you keep showing up, and we'll keep showing up.
And it's just a privilege and an honor to do this every year.

Speaker 6 And we won't let you down.

Speaker 17 We'll work.

Speaker 6 We'll work long days, anything we can to be worthy of what you guys create here.

Speaker 26 I just want to do more of a detailed, like, what is it?

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 21 in five words.

Speaker 20 You know, just like.

Speaker 2 So it's like a flock. What is it? It's like a flock of birds.

Speaker 21 We have some guidelines.

Speaker 2 And then suddenly we change direction.

Speaker 4 And for the listener.

Speaker 20 I'm saying for the listener who has no idea what we're talking about.

Speaker 4 Okay, okay.

Speaker 6 I'm talking to them. I need to be talking about them.
I understand. I understand.

Speaker 4 See, I didn't even think of that.

Speaker 2 I thought, great, we're a flock of birds.

Speaker 6 This is a group of thousands of people

Speaker 6 who are witnessing and enduring a world

Speaker 6 adjacent to, if not completely entrenched in turmoil.

Speaker 6 Coming together for four days every year, not to leave their emotions and their feelings and their fears at the door, but to fully bring them in, break them apart, and share one another's burdens.

Speaker 6 To be here in support of each other and to be here in the euphoria of music under the stars, just being fully who they are, whatever that means for four days.

Speaker 27 Boom.

Speaker 21 That just comes out your mouth just like that.

Speaker 21 It is what it is.

Speaker 12 I'm actually going to ask Glennon a question because

Speaker 5 I want to know what it means to you.

Speaker 2 It meant something different last year, what it means to me this year.

Speaker 2 I keep having this challenge. at Girls Just Want to, which is that I just keep starting to cry constantly.

Speaker 2 And actually, everyone in our family, somebody breaks down every day and it's like this huge thing and then it's me maybe four or five times a day

Speaker 2 and it's very hard to describe it's not a feeling it's not I'm happy or I'm sad it is like a internal swelling that is just like being in the presence of complete truth and complete kindness

Speaker 2 I guess it's love is what it is. It's just like

Speaker 2 it's like coming out of my body or something in tears and then it's like baptism all the time.

Speaker 2 But I also, what it means to me this year, we were talking about this earlier, like what we're gonna have to do this year in particular, like what is this gonna look like.

Speaker 2 And we were talking about how the language has been really around resistance for so long.

Speaker 2 and that that's just not beautiful enough anymore. That like resisting something means that the thing that's most important is the other thing.
It's in reaction to something.

Speaker 4 Whoa.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 right? It's like the other thing is the most important and we're just reacting to it, but that is not what we're doing here. Like I don't even know who else exists here.

Speaker 2 And there was this artist named Toni Kay Barbera.

Speaker 2 And she said that the job of the artist is to make the revolution irresistible.

Speaker 2 And this is irresistible.

Speaker 4 Right?

Speaker 4 Well said.

Speaker 2 You don't have to yell at anybody, actually.

Speaker 2 That's so exhausting. I'm so tired.
Like, I just want joy and beauty and love and this-ness.

Speaker 2 And then everybody else will be like, I want that.

Speaker 4 Right?

Speaker 2 So that's what it is to me. It's an irresistible revolution.
And you guys started building. I know you're always like, it wasn't us.

Speaker 4 I mean, okay, all right.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 2 It was definitely you.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you built it before we needed it. And when you say things like, we will show up.
As long as you show up, people don't say that shit. Like, that makes me want to cry that you said that.

Speaker 21 You can cry, Glennon. You know, in the production office, we have a crying corner.
I think we should have one at the festival, too. We need some crying corners.

Speaker 2 I will just take office hours there, and people can meet me there. Actually, yeah, let's do that next year.

Speaker 21 We need one.

Speaker 2 What do you want to talk about next, love?

Speaker 4 Me? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Can you talk to us about...

Speaker 2 We've had so many conversations over the last eight hours, and and I don't know how many of them are appropriate for public, so why don't you pick one?

Speaker 21 We're all friends here.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 15 I think one of the things that this space and this weekend gives me is it allows me to

Speaker 14 be in my body and experience

Speaker 29 folks like Muna last night.

Speaker 19 And to be like, really, really raw and honest,

Speaker 8 there's a kind of jealousy that lives in me for their expression and their freedom in their expression.

Speaker 14 And I don't know if any of the older lesbians in the room

Speaker 15 would understand what I'm saying, but I think that

Speaker 12 when I watch

Speaker 30 them perform, I think,

Speaker 27 you done good, kid.

Speaker 16 And all of you,

Speaker 20 and all of you old, older lesbians who have charted the path, the ones that came before us,

Speaker 20 you've done good, kid.

Speaker 20 All of it.

Speaker 6 It's all down to the things that, yeah, it's all down to the things that

Speaker 6 these people did when they didn't have a stage.

Speaker 6 And the fact that now it has a stage is just like, it's like being on a roller coaster watching that happen. But I know what you mean about that kind of little twinge of pain of like, oh.

Speaker 25 I have a 15-year-old self, a 10-year-old self who's like, oh, yes.

Speaker 15 And, oh, I'm sad for you.

Speaker 25 And that's all real and it's so beautiful.

Speaker 31 There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I just...

Speaker 25 I just am so in touch.

Speaker 15 And it feels like so many things are happening every single day here that I'm,

Speaker 4 there's just like this instant like, whoa, this doesn't happen in the real world.

Speaker 8 And I'm just so grateful for this container because it allows me to see my growth.

Speaker 25 It allows me to see where I might be falling short or where I still have more growth to make.

Speaker 32 So it's just such a beautiful, and everybody's so lovely and nice.

Speaker 27 So thank you for being so lovely and nice.

Speaker 6 Is there a joint like pod in the future between you and Muna? Because they love you guys.

Speaker 2 I woke up this morning and I said, my sexuality is Muna.

Speaker 25 This is now news to me.

Speaker 4 She did not tell me this.

Speaker 4 So we. No, I don't mean I'm Muna.

Speaker 2 I mean, I am Muna.

Speaker 2 I've already composed emails in my head about how I can get them to accept me as their queer elder auntie.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, they have.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 they want to like talk. I mean, this is like, you know, who should talk about this

Speaker 6 is them. Because they actually have such insight.

Speaker 6 Like, I've been able to pull them aside for a couple of conversations, and the things that they are thinking about and the things that they are saying are so heartening and so beautiful and so exciting that I just, you guys got to talk to them.

Speaker 4 Okay. Well, is there any other way?

Speaker 2 For sure. That sounds scary, but we'll do that.
Okay.

Speaker 2 No, I just love their joy and their freedom and their

Speaker 2 I loved that they said just Venmo us I was like oh my god you're just like taking away all the middlemen like there's something very revolutionary about that yeah I was sitting with Shadaya and she looked at me and she goes I trust her and I go I do I'll give her all my money

Speaker 2 whatever you want to do Katie

Speaker 8 take our money

Speaker 2 because there's also like all the queer art can be so angsty and painful and like it all has to be so and and to see them just be like oh no it's gonna be joyful Like, silk chiffon makes me, I'm like, yes, silk chiffon, shit.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 Anyway.

Speaker 23 We've gone down a little Muna track.

Speaker 15 Let's just bring it back.

Speaker 25 And we're gonna talk about the sexuality thing later.

Speaker 2 Shit, I knew that was gonna come back to bite me.

Speaker 6 I don't wanna miss that.

Speaker 12 I'm just like, which one?

Speaker 4 All of them, all of them.

Speaker 4 Let's guess. Let's guess.

Speaker 24 Yes, Abby. Trying to figure it out.

Speaker 4 All of them equally, yes.

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Speaker 2 I want to go back to what you were talking about because so this thing happened that I wonder if anyone can relate to. So we were at a bank

Speaker 2 and you were at a bank? I know it was so weird.

Speaker 21 Did you say bank?

Speaker 2 A bank. Yeah.

Speaker 4 This is an old story. Yeah.

Speaker 20 Yeah. Not in Mexico.

Speaker 7 Close to a bank.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 19 Yep.

Speaker 2 It was when we first got married.

Speaker 2 And the bank guy gave us a piece of paper and it said, gave it to us at a table. And it said, husband, wife.

Speaker 2 And I was like,

Speaker 2 first of all, are you serious? Like, are you looking? Do you?

Speaker 2 And I said some things about how they might update their paperwork and that we wouldn't be at this bank anymore unless their paper was, and like the time to update their paperwork was like last century.

Speaker 2 And so it was just like, honestly, a normal Tuesday for me. And we left and we got in the van and Abby said, it makes me feel

Speaker 2 sad in moments like that because

Speaker 2 I think, why am I not brave like that?

Speaker 2 And we have, it started this beautiful conversation, and it's because I grew up with straight privilege. When I walk into a room, I'm expecting to be treated with equality.

Speaker 2 I'm expecting a certain thing. And how did you feel?

Speaker 23 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 27 I grew up kind of hiding and apologizing for my sexuality a lot. It wasn't in any way celebrated, not only in my family, but in our communities communities and in our country and the world.

Speaker 15 And I just felt kind of

Speaker 31 in all of those little microaggressive moments,

Speaker 25 I always just felt like, oh, I need to make myself smaller here and apologize for my space that I'm occupying.

Speaker 18 And so when we got in the car, I was baffled that this 5'2, yes, you are 5'2, not 5'4

Speaker 10 woman,

Speaker 24 she just flung the papers across the table and she just said, fix this.

Speaker 25 I'm not signing something that doesn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 2 But that wasn't my point. My point is that it was privilege, not courage.
I understand. You are so brave.
You paved the way for people like me to be like,

Speaker 2 I'm not taking this shit. Like, you

Speaker 2 and you and you did that.

Speaker 2 What does community mean to you two? I have never met anyone who does community like you two.

Speaker 2 This is just the tip of the iceberg of your lives. You have made me less afraid of people.

Speaker 33 Yes. Thank you.

Speaker 2 No, it's something very deep.

Speaker 18 Like I call you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you call me.

Speaker 2 We'll talk about that.

Speaker 6 Phone rings and you might answer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But no, I just mean in a deep way. The way that you invite people into your lives in a way that you're not scared of.

Speaker 2 The way that you invite people on stages. What does community mean to you? And when you talk about it with each other,

Speaker 2 how do you make decisions about how you do it? Why does your life look like it looks?

Speaker 6 Do you want to take that one, baby?

Speaker 21 I mean, I think it's completely unplanned, honestly. It's interesting because for us to be together, I had to emigrate.
And I left my entire community behind.

Speaker 21 Maybe some of them are here, I don't know, they're probably drinking tequila somewhere.

Speaker 21 So I was kind of starting over with no friends and family, and it was just brandy and she already had this established community and family and friends around her and I think initially I had like a little bit of resistance to it because I was a bit of a hermit too like I kind of

Speaker 4 but

Speaker 21 I honestly don't know how I could have made that transition without being welcomed immediately by her community and I think it's so incredibly important. They didn't really know who I was.

Speaker 21 You know, they hadn't met my friends, they hadn't really met my family, but they fully embraced me.

Speaker 21 And I remember for our London wedding, Tim comes to the London wedding, and I think it was the first time he'd met my community. And he pulled me aside and he said, you've got so many friends.

Speaker 21 And I was like, well, yeah, I'd lived 30 years before I met Brandy.

Speaker 21 And he said, he goes, if I'm honest, I was wondering whether you were a total loner and you had just kind of come over and, you know, moved to America. And it just cracked me up because,

Speaker 6 what was the question?

Speaker 2 It doesn't matter, Catherine.

Speaker 2 We won't meet until you talk. It's essential.

Speaker 21 It's essential. Community is essential.

Speaker 6 I love hearing you have to say that. Yeah.
So Catherine, when she was in London, like... People would come to her door and knock on her door and she would not come downstairs and answer the door.

Speaker 4 Well, it had to be scheduled.

Speaker 21 It had to be scheduled. British people schedule things, okay?

Speaker 21 We schedule cups of teas and face-time meeting and like months in advance. Yeah.
So if your doorbell rings in Britain, you're like, who is that? Yeah.

Speaker 6 And why are they here? Yeah.

Speaker 6 And I'm just like, my favorite song growing up was Car Wheels on a Gravel Road because I just wanted to hear people approaching me.

Speaker 6 I just wanted to hear that there was constantly going to be someone in my space every day.

Speaker 6 And I have always really kind of doubled down on community or, you know, I've been accused of being extremely codependent by mystery people.

Speaker 6 And I have dealt with the reality of that probably most of my life. And it's a bit of a controversial thing.
You know, I think a lot about

Speaker 6 Joni's lyrics and that Hijira album about these pilgrimages and to flee with honor and to go and find yourself. And I get all that.

Speaker 6 And it may be a controversial take on things but I just really fundamentally don't believe correct me fix me later but I don't believe people are meant to be alone doesn't mean you have to be in a relationship you know it doesn't mean you have to be with your dysfunctional family if that's toxic for you it just means you cannot become isolated and disenfranchised.

Speaker 6 You have to find your people so that you have support and spiritual alignment with your fellow human beings because it helps you. It reflects who you are back onto you.

Speaker 6 And I don't know how to live without as many people as I can get my hands on.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 22 I've spent many a day on a team and figuring out what like the art of teamwork and teammanship.

Speaker 8 And Brandy, I still am learning from you and Catherine.

Speaker 10 It's really an art, the way that you collaborate with all the people. And there isn't like this perception of hierarchy that you bring to any stage or any room or any conversation.

Speaker 8 You both are so open and generous with so much of your time and your heart.

Speaker 25 And I just, honestly, I just think you've chosen such a beautiful path for yourself and life.

Speaker 8 And I just want to, on behalf of this group, like thank you for showing all of us like what true community builders can look like and like how it can come to fruition in weekends like this.

Speaker 4 It's really beautiful.

Speaker 6 You know,

Speaker 3 that's so beautiful.

Speaker 6 And you are.

Speaker 6 I'm going to put you on the spot in a moment, and I'm going to go on about you two and community too in a second. But I want to say one thing about people that are exhausted by community

Speaker 6 and how

Speaker 21 like our daughter sometimes. Yeah, and

Speaker 4 you

Speaker 6 know and it's it's not like a

Speaker 6 it's not friction, it's not an inability to be with other people or acquiesce or be flexible.

Speaker 6 It's feeling too many people's feelings, taking on all that responsibility, and wondering how you could possibly conserve any energy when there are so many people in the room that you really just want to lean into.

Speaker 21 Yeah, I think if you're an empath, it can be exhausting.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yes, I sometimes think that I'm like, I'm not a jerk, I'm just very sensitive.

Speaker 2 And I mean that in a way, like, truly, if I'm in a room with a lot of people, Abby and I can be in the same room and leave and report completely different experiences.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Right?

Speaker 2 It can be a lot for people. What about community is hard for you to?

Speaker 21 Well, Brandy's stamina is

Speaker 21 just kind of

Speaker 21 unbelievable.

Speaker 21 Her stamina for performance.

Speaker 4 She just, she.

Speaker 21 Is there a little sexual innuendo in this?

Speaker 2 No double enchanter there, no.

Speaker 21 I'll let you make up your minds about that.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 21 she's like the last one standing. I mean, me and the twins are like, can we leave this place? And she's like, just...

Speaker 21 So I think

Speaker 21 it's like a battery power thing. Like, I hide in bathrooms sometimes just to recharge and go back out so I can keep up with her

Speaker 21 so I mean would that be true in your case like actually when she does

Speaker 21 when her batteries do die it's instant

Speaker 21 and there are signs of that happening it looks like this

Speaker 21 And then I'm like, oh, it's happened, it's happened. Somebody save her, somebody save her.

Speaker 4 No, I don't know. You don't get a warning.
It just. No.

Speaker 6 I think it's just that, like, and the kids know this, and Catherine knows this, and this is probably the biggest criticism that I've learned to sustain about. It's like, brandy's going to brandy.

Speaker 6 And it's like, from the time I was a kid, if somebody would come to my house, I would answer the door with a Nintendo controller in one hand and flip the person off with the other hand and go, there's an onion in the fridge, fuck off, I'm going to take a shower.

Speaker 6 And like, not even not be present, just do whatever I was gonna do anyway and that's my that's how I get through days like this is just deciding on my own whether or not to wear makeup or get out of my pajamas and I'm just gonna like turn up and be however I am sorry and that

Speaker 6 you know hasn't always been great but that's how I don't get tired is I know I'm just gonna

Speaker 6 I don't know how to not just be exactly how I am at all times.

Speaker 2 And that could mean totally ignoring someone or everyone while they're in my home that's I feel like that's actually quite profound I mean some I remember somebody recently said to me I had to show up for something and I I said how do I do it what am I supposed to do and she said just be yourself and I said I don't know how much longer I can keep that up

Speaker 2 and then I thought what the hell does that mean

Speaker 2 And I'm not sure, but it's not that.

Speaker 6 No, I don't know what it is. It's like a social problem I have.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 6 It does give me a lot of stamina because I'm not really rising to the occasion. Yeah, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 28 If you're always yourself, then you have nothing to worry about.

Speaker 10 Like, then it's your battery.

Speaker 22 It's not the world turning the dial for you.

Speaker 12 You're turning it yourself.

Speaker 5 And so when you're tired, you're like, I'm out of battery.

Speaker 6 No problem. Yeah, what do you have to offer me? Exactly.

Speaker 9 Exactly.

Speaker 4 I'm tired. Welcome.

Speaker 6 Let's give me something. Give me energy or a new thing or a goss.
Like, let's.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Let's talk shit. You know, like, you know, definitely am always open to whatever I can get from another person.
And now,

Speaker 6 Catherine, I would say you're like that. You don't have a choice because Americans, they just.

Speaker 2 They just what?

Speaker 6 They just grab you.

Speaker 6 We don't let you go.

Speaker 21 Well, I grab them, too.

Speaker 6 You're our Mary Poppins.

Speaker 4 You know.

Speaker 4 Well, what about that?

Speaker 21 But it's funny, it's like a dance, isn't it? There's signals.

Speaker 21 You know, when somebody's tapped out, you kind of step in and you take the reins and Brandy's one of Brandy's signals which is really hilarious is that when we have house guests sometimes and she's done she goes to the piano and starts playing music and I'm like if you want people to leave your house don't fucking go and play piano

Speaker 6 but I'm gone I'm gone at that point then I'm then I'm in a piano and I'm just not there you know

Speaker 2 I'm going to be so sad if we're at Brandy and Kat's house and Brandy starts playing the piano.

Speaker 2 Has that ever happened?

Speaker 4 No, I'm so grateful.

Speaker 12 Now I know.

Speaker 4 I'll be like, okay, see you later. We're out of here.

Speaker 2 Here's the thing. This is going to maybe sound like a weird question, but does building community take a lot of confidence?

Speaker 2 Like, I keep thinking, you just invited all these people here and just, like, assumed that people would come. Like, that's so terrifying.

Speaker 6 And that everything would be okay.

Speaker 6 And that, you know, we're not going to have lightning every night and that we're not all going to get norovirus.

Speaker 6 And that, you know, and it's like, yeah, no, it takes, it actually can be a bit like crippling fear sometimes for me because I'm just so afraid that whatever I told everybody to come do is going to be like fire festival and it's just going to be

Speaker 6 I have nightmares about it, you know. But again, it's not about.

Speaker 6 me being victorious at the end of a successful weekend. It's about everyone else experiencing each other and me remembering that I'm really just a part of it.

Speaker 6 I'm not trying to air our dirty laundry or make our like, you know, our lives like too public, but the things that I have called you to for advice about, the ways that we have leaned into one another and our families and our kids, it's been life-giving for our family.

Speaker 6 And I know that

Speaker 6 when we do that for each other, it has a ripple effect that can extend to all of our friends here. And it's pretty extraordinary the things we've talked each other through

Speaker 17 for sure.

Speaker 15 Right back at you.

Speaker 6 You're leaders in ways that

Speaker 6 I think people feel but don't overtly know.

Speaker 21 They know.

Speaker 6 They know.

Speaker 6 They're behind almost everything me and Kath do right.

Speaker 4 That's the truth.

Speaker 2 Should we take some questions?

Speaker 4 I do think it's QA time.

Speaker 24 We have,

Speaker 4 where are they?

Speaker 2 Devin, you're right.

Speaker 4 Right here. Yes.

Speaker 17 Questions largely for Abby.

Speaker 36 As a professor of communication turned college dean, my introduction to you was not soccer, sadly, but the Bernard commencement address.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 36 over the last six years, especially in my leadership journey, I know that taking care of that wolf pack is important, but more than anything, the mantra for me has been, give me the fucking ball.

Speaker 17 And it has meant everything to me and changed me.

Speaker 2 This past year, I lost my mom.

Speaker 36 And I appreciate your discussions about journey. of grief and where you have come to and moving on.

Speaker 36 I actually listened to them on the way to my best friend's mom's funeral, which was really sort of

Speaker 36 powerful and poignant. And I really especially appreciated talking about the not knowing being the point as a bit of a control freak.
That's a struggle for me.

Speaker 36 And because you gave me a mantra before that changed me, I'm wondering if you have mantras or self-talk that keeps you in a positive space in the grief journey more often than not.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 27 thank you so much.

Speaker 23 And for those who may not know,

Speaker 15 my brother passed away a year ago.

Speaker 10 And so this last year has been a little bit of a doozy.

Speaker 26 And

Speaker 18 I'm so sorry for your loss.

Speaker 23 I know that it's tough and confusing.

Speaker 22 And

Speaker 23 it feels like the mantra of my year this year is like, I'm good.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 15 one of the most beautiful things, because I kind of think that this grief thing kind of goes in a circle and it just kind of keeps spiraling. And for me, I've kind of completed this full year circle.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 25 my brother's death is such a big lesson that time

Speaker 33 will go by quickly unless you're paying attention, right?

Speaker 15 Like, you ever wake up and you're like, my God, where did that month go?

Speaker 25 But then there's like a few days or a week that goes by and it's just like so slow. And those slow days

Speaker 26 are what I'm like aching for.

Speaker 27 I'm aching for slowness,

Speaker 25 not to slow time down, but to be as completely present as possible and to be as completely grateful

Speaker 25 for the breath that I have, for this experience, this weekend, to be with you all.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 23 Glennon,

Speaker 27 I guess it was like 9, 10, 11 months after he had passed away, told me this beautiful story. My brother's name was Peter.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 12 she said, hey, I have this. Do you want to tell the story?

Speaker 2 I'll tell the first part.

Speaker 13 Great.

Speaker 2 Okay, so Abby has always been very, very, very afraid of death. And I know we're all afraid of death, but this was kind of huge.

Speaker 2 And it took us like too many years to figure out that it was tied to the fact that when she was a child, people taught her that there was a fiery place full of flames and devils that after she died, she would go to.

Speaker 2 It turns out that can do a number on a kid.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 We should rethink that story.

Speaker 2 So.

Speaker 9 I was told I was going to hell.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, I think they got. Okay.
I know. I'm just.

Speaker 4 You know. It's not like I said, making sure birds, I feel like.
I feel like I was sure we're all following along your line.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 4 I

Speaker 2 always felt like if I were a superhero,

Speaker 2 my super power would be stories. Like I would like look at you and be like,

Speaker 2 I know you think you deserve to be with a cheater, but I have a better story. Like I know that you think this, but I have a better story.

Speaker 2 Like just more beautiful and more beautiful and beautiful stories because we're all living inside of them.

Speaker 2 And so now you go.

Speaker 12 And so Glennon told me that

Speaker 23 in the Christian faith,

Speaker 12 Jesus, Jesus, one of his apostles, was named Peter.

Speaker 28 And Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven.

Speaker 32 And when she told me that, she was like, so, you know, your brother's name was Peter.

Speaker 23 And so Peter, and you don't know my brother Peter, but he was like the biggest, loveliest teddy bear, welcomed everybody, wanted, he was like, basically, if he was the bouncer at a bar, he would let everyone in.

Speaker 25 So she was like, so don't you see?

Speaker 34 Like, your brother is deciding who gets in.

Speaker 6 And he's letting you in. That is a better story.

Speaker 25 And I was like this, like, you should, I mean, tears were rolling down my face. I was like, you have kept this from me for one year.

Speaker 4 But she knew.

Speaker 24 She knew I had to be ready to hear it.

Speaker 27 And so actually she ended up giving me

Speaker 29 this medallion of St.

Speaker 15 Peter.

Speaker 9 And it's really beautiful and I wear it almost every day.

Speaker 15 And so

Speaker 23 in terms of a mantra, like this year, I feel like right now I'm good.

Speaker 5 And I don't know, tomorrow I might be like, not.

Speaker 10 Grief is weird.

Speaker 15 And for me, too, as a recovered addict, I didn't realize that the grief that I was going to experience with my brother, I was also going to be dragging the train of grief that I had not yet dealt with.

Speaker 25 And that was a doozy.

Speaker 25 It's still a doozy. And so it's just something that I have learned to,

Speaker 15 I've resisted it, and now I have learned to accept that grief will now live within me and that I will constantly be returning to it for the rest of my life.

Speaker 9 And that is okay.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Sorry for your loss.

Speaker 2 Beautiful day.

Speaker 12 Thank you.

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Speaker 35 You know what we don't talk enough about?

Speaker 37 Sleep.

Speaker 35 I mean, we spend a third of our lives doing it, and it literally impacts everything. Your mood, focus, workouts, even how you show up for the people you love.

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Speaker 38 Hi, my name is Valerie. So my wife, this is my wife,

Speaker 38 have spent, my wife and I have spent the last five years building our family.

Speaker 38 It's been pretty much our only focus because we were going through fertility treatments and we actually lost one of our sons. And I feel like that's a lot about like

Speaker 38 you as the mom and like I carried the babies and so I felt very much like it was about me and it was a like sort of took it on as my identity.

Speaker 38 Now that we're done, we just had a baby six months ago.

Speaker 32 Congratulations. Thank you.

Speaker 38 I find myself trying to put that energy somewhere where I'm not worrying about being a good mom or nitpicking the things my kids and my baby are doing. And I really want to shift my focus.

Speaker 38 So I was wondering, and you've talked about this a little bit, about having the right kind of focus on your kids. If you have any advice

Speaker 38 about who we can be for moms that are done growing our family and we're just trying to grow with our family.

Speaker 4 Ooh,

Speaker 31 great question.

Speaker 21 Couldn't anyone else answer this question? I mean, I think I struggle with the exact same thing, honestly. It's um, gosh, I wish I knew the answer to this question.
Does anyone?

Speaker 2 Well, no, for sure not. But let's say things anyway.

Speaker 21 Say stuff.

Speaker 4 Tell me what to do with your children.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 21 listening to them. I find myself talking over my kids a lot.

Speaker 21 And I try to catch myself when it happens. And more often than not, they catch me doing it.
And my little Elijah, she's, no, listen, no, listen to me. No, mum, listen.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, okay, you have my attention.

Speaker 21 I think children just really show us. everything we need to know about ourselves ultimately.
They're like, I don't want to sound cliched, but they really are a mirror. That's good.

Speaker 4 Talk about mom guilt, honey. Oh, God.

Speaker 6 Mom guilt every day that you have.

Speaker 21 Yeah, I struggle with mom guilt every single day, several times a day. And it's something I still struggle with, and I don't even know where it comes from.
I think parenting is just really difficult.

Speaker 21 You're never going to feel like you're really winning. Most of the time, you're going to feel like you're failing.
But I think it's just really human. And

Speaker 21 I don't know. I really don't know the answer to this.
You speak. Somebody else speaks.

Speaker 4 Beautiful.

Speaker 33 It's great.

Speaker 2 I think that if I could do it over.

Speaker 18 Our children are here.

Speaker 10 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 Then I'd change nothing.

Speaker 31 Right there. Just as a reminder.

Speaker 2 No, they know this. They know this.

Speaker 2 I think that I would

Speaker 2 have shifted some of the energy that I think I over-indexed on the I've got you energy.

Speaker 2 I think it was very important for me to feel like the kids knew that I had them, that I had their back, that their mom would do anything for them, that I would always make sure they were okay.

Speaker 2 And I wish, and I'm trying to fix it now, but I wish that I had put a little less emphasis on I've got you and a little more emphasis on you've got you.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think that's where the magic is. That's what we're trying to do.
We're just trying to create space where they figure out, I don't have to look to you.

Speaker 2 I can look to me and you'll be there, but I've got me.

Speaker 2 And I think one of the ways we can do that,

Speaker 2 wait till they get older and start to go out into the world and have their own lives because what you find out is that it wasn't just your identity for me.

Speaker 2 It's the only place that I've ever felt real belonging ever is in this little microcosm of humans and so when they start leaving it's not only a loss of identity but it's a loss of belonging of just a lot

Speaker 2 and so

Speaker 2 what I have figured out is that

Speaker 2 it's like

Speaker 4 you know how

Speaker 2 okay let's say they're like butterflies right

Speaker 2 if you chase them they just fly faster okay Like, and I have tried. It's

Speaker 2 there's a chasing energy as they grow that does not work

Speaker 2 and becomes a burden to them. And you become like, they come back because they think that you need them

Speaker 2 as opposed to the other way around.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so there is a way of doing it, I think, that is more like creating your little life as that kind of butterfly garden that's like so beautiful and so fertile and so

Speaker 2 attractive that they just want to come back

Speaker 2 and I think like what I know about you already is that you're doing it because you're here

Speaker 2 you already do have an identity outside those babies you already are creating yourself and your life and creating an irresistible revolution that they will want to come back to yeah that's it right the hang and then they'll be there yeah

Speaker 6 and i want to say one thing really quick too a really quick thing is that alex said something earlier about returning to the ones who remember you.

Speaker 6 Is that, you know, you went through a really intense journey when you went through IVF and when you did your family planning, and a person that watched you do it is your wife, and I promise you, your wife is in awe of you.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 she knows exactly who you are

Speaker 6 and who you were, and she'll help you find it again.

Speaker 3 So good.

Speaker 32 Hi, I'm Crystal. I'm a long time member of the pod squad, really excited to get to do this.

Speaker 32 I'm also somebody who's been pretty active and politically engaged my whole life.

Speaker 32 And after eight years of mega, I find myself exhausted and full of a simmering rage that's just right there all the time.

Speaker 4 Hear that giggle of agreement. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Those are your people.

Speaker 6 And I'm, you know, grieving things we've already lost.

Speaker 32 I'm grieving the things that are going to come.

Speaker 21 And I'm fighting the urge

Speaker 32 to just hide,

Speaker 32 to just check out, to go away, and just duck and cover and wait for four years to be over.

Speaker 32 But I know that's a trap. It's self-protective and I get that, but it's also self-sabotaging because that's not who I am.

Speaker 4 I'm curious and open

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 4 kind

Speaker 4 and soft.

Speaker 32 And I'll be damned if I let some fucking fascists take that from me.

Speaker 32 Okay,

Speaker 4 so I know that's a trap.

Speaker 32 They can take a lot of things, but they can't have me.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 32 I would really love any of your thoughts about how we

Speaker 32 avoid that urge to wall off and get cynical and protect ourselves and instead just keep showing up for each other and not giving up who we are

Speaker 32 because it's awful.

Speaker 32 So, yeah, any thoughts on that?

Speaker 4 You too.

Speaker 2 Can you tell them what you texted me the day after the election?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I wrote a song that just, I just was thinking of you the whole time I was writing it, that song Human.

Speaker 6 And I sent you the lyrics and I sent you the song, but what else did I text you?

Speaker 2 You said, I know, oh God, you said.

Speaker 6 I texted you like five miles of text.

Speaker 2 You said it was, one of the things you said was,

Speaker 2 I know it's awful, I know it's horrible, but have you ever seen

Speaker 4 something about a forest?

Speaker 4 What was it?

Speaker 4 What was it?

Speaker 6 I said, no, I don't think I've ever seen a forest.

Speaker 6 Should I find a forest?

Speaker 6 I said, and this is so,

Speaker 6 it's, it's not been lost on me that that verse.

Speaker 4 I don't want to cry now.

Speaker 21 Where's the crying corner?

Speaker 6 I said, have you ever seen the beauty of a wildfire son?

Speaker 6 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 She said, I know it's all awful, but have you ever seen the beauty of a wildfire son?

Speaker 2 So, I think.

Speaker 6 And then I texted her a wildfire son, okay?

Speaker 4 The photo of one. Yeah, she texted me because she knew I sure as hell hadn't seen that.

Speaker 2 And if they're not inside, I haven't seen them.

Speaker 2 Okay, can I just say something specifically to you?

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 one of your instincts to stop exposing yourself to this shit is really, really good. It's like,

Speaker 2 no offense to anyone who does, but I don't listen to true crime because I want to say, stay shocked

Speaker 2 and appalled by the idea of women being hurt and killed. I don't want to be desensitized to it.

Speaker 4 Okay?

Speaker 2 I was talking about this this morning, but so many of us have fought like hell to have lives where we are not constantly exposed to racist, rapey, fascist bullies. Like we have worked hard for that.

Speaker 2 And we feel it viscerally because a lot of us had those kind of people leading our hallways and our classrooms and the buses and our families and all of that. And so it is okay

Speaker 2 for you to decide that you are going to create and expose yourself to things that will allow you to be the beautiful, sensitive, soft person that you are because that is actually

Speaker 2 a way to avoid the slow march into numbness that allows fascism to take place.

Speaker 2 That is

Speaker 2 the work,

Speaker 4 okay?

Speaker 2 And we can do a third way. Like we don't have to do it their way.
We can stay informed. We will create that.
I stopped. I haven't been on social media for six months.
I decided I'd stop.

Speaker 2 I do not hate myself enough to do it anymore.

Speaker 4 Okay?

Speaker 2 I haven't watched the news since the last debate. Same.
And I was okay with that. And just recently, I've been like, it's time.
It's time to figure something else out. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 2 And we're going to do that. I have this dear friend who came to stay with me during the LA fires because she was sheltering at our house.

Speaker 2 And I've been waiting for when I have ideas, I've been waiting for the universe to also have the idea, so I'm not always out there on my own. And

Speaker 2 she does the news, and she's been doing news in a way that is not like nervous system hijacking. She's going to start doing the news on the We Can Do Hard Things Feed.
I said, I will engage again

Speaker 2 if we do it a different way.

Speaker 20 Will you guys want to listen to a calm,

Speaker 16 conscious, awake, and awareness, and so you can stay in touch with what is going on without having to be putting yourself in a position where your nervous system is going to get jacked up every single hour of every single day?

Speaker 20 You'll listen?

Speaker 4 Okay. We'll build it.
We'll do it together.

Speaker 2 We'll do it together. I'm with you, and we'll do it together.

Speaker 4 Okay?

Speaker 2 But I think you have the right idea. Yeah.

Speaker 21 Glennon, you said something really clever post-election result to me on a separate text thread where you said

Speaker 21 less empire, more community.

Speaker 21 And I think that just, as Glennon does, she just encapsulated how we should be moving forward.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 We can do it our way.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 19 All right, we got a couple more questions we got to get through. Yep.

Speaker 4 Go ahead.

Speaker 11 Hi, I'm Carrie. I have a question which kind of seems pointless after dancing dancing next to Abby and Glennon last night to Muna because I also, my identity is now Muna as well.

Speaker 11 And Abby, I think I know which one she might have been talking about.

Speaker 4 I'll tell you later.

Speaker 2 But this is more so

Speaker 11 for Glennon. We have the same sort of coming out story about living our lives in what I call default hetero, just on autopilot as far as sexuality.

Speaker 11 And you mentioned something like inside you don't feel any gender. You don't feel male or female.

Speaker 2 Same.

Speaker 11 So I was just wondering what advice would you give somebody that currently might identify as queer because they don't fit in any sort of box.

Speaker 11 with their identity, with gender, and also coming to their queerness later in life and how you reconcile

Speaker 2 your past

Speaker 11 with what it is now.

Speaker 4 Okay,

Speaker 2 this morning

Speaker 2 before we were doing the gorgeous screening of Alex's film Aloke, I was thinking about me or maybe feeling about gender this morning. I was asking myself, how do I feel about it today?

Speaker 2 I like to use fresh language about it all the time. And I thought, okay, this morning if I had to describe my gender, I think I would say I am like,

Speaker 2 my aesthetic is Glinda, but my soul is Alphaba.

Speaker 2 Like, my gender is,

Speaker 2 I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream.

Speaker 2 Right? My gender is Trojan horse, okay?

Speaker 2 I'm like Glinda, but I'm like a better Glinda. I'm like Glinda that gets on the broom.

Speaker 2 Okay?

Speaker 2 I'm Glinda.

Speaker 2 And if she didn't get on the broom, it's because she had a meeting with Alphaba earlier, and so they decided that she was gonna stay in Oz, but she was gonna stay in Oz, and her goal was to liberate Oz from the inside.

Speaker 2 So her allegiance was still with Alphaba, but she was just like a spy,

Speaker 2 okay? This shit happened to me this morning.

Speaker 25 Did anybody track that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm not like white feminist, Glinda. I'm just feminist, Glinda, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 there's that.

Speaker 2 And I also feel like this, and I feel like some femme presenting people feel this way.

Speaker 2 There's like some feminists that can be like male gaze-y that I'm performing for the male gays, and I know that that's there.

Speaker 2 But I also think that if I was on a desert island, after I understood that I was going to die, because I can't even get a meal together if I'm in a kitchen full of food,

Speaker 2 I would

Speaker 2 then find myself a few days in probably like using sticks to get my nails right and like making rings and bracelets out of twigs. I think I would be doing that

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 a lot of that shit for me is not between me and men or me and the male gays. It's like I need my nails to be a certain way so I can like talk to God this way.
It's like so God recognizes me.

Speaker 2 It's like between me and God. My hair and nails are between me and God, okay?

Speaker 2 I mean the six pounds of foundation on my face is definitely between me and and Instagram, but

Speaker 2 the nails and hair are real, okay?

Speaker 2 So that's my gender and

Speaker 2 also Mona

Speaker 2 and the Trojan horse thing is like

Speaker 2 I don't know, it's not a performance, it's real. Like

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 get invited into places because people think I'm safe.

Speaker 4 And I'm not safe

Speaker 4 at all.

Speaker 2 Like I'm not safe.

Speaker 2 You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So like I'm there to betray everything. Like I'm at the table to fuck everything up all the time.

Speaker 2 So what I'm saying is just don't use male langu, don't use the language that they've been given to us about gender.

Speaker 2 Just completely go off script and and use what use Disney movies or whatever else just use whatever the hell language you feel like

Speaker 2 um I can't use male and female anymore and I it doesn't make sense to me it's like the software's been upgraded and I can't understand that language anymore and I also don't know any men I don't know what they're doing I'm not up I don't know

Speaker 2 but I think that I would like to be I don't know how to be in a space with men and not feel myself in a violent situation. And I don't mean that I'm gonna get violent, although there is that.

Speaker 2 I mean like

Speaker 2 I actually have not gotten to a place where I feel bodily autonomy around men. What I mean by that is I feel like

Speaker 2 because I must present a certain way that men expect me to laugh when they think I should laugh and smile when they think I should smile and when I don't laugh when they think they're compelling me to laugh I feel like they want to kill me.

Speaker 2 And I am serious. There's like a

Speaker 2 like that's where bodily autonomy starts, right? It's like laughter. That's why they're so scared of us laughing.
It's like real laughter can't be compelled, right?

Speaker 2 Tears, it's like dance, music, orgasms, like all of these things are where bodily autonomy starts and ends.

Speaker 2 So I'm working on the guy thing. If anyone knows any nice ones that I could start with, that'd be great.

Speaker 6 They're all here right now.

Speaker 4 What? They're all here. Yeah, they're all here.
That's right.

Speaker 20 All right, I think we actually have to get to that last question.

Speaker 16 We're running out of time.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I'm done with my gender. You got it? Is it clear?

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 6 Hi, I'm Marissa.

Speaker 14 And before I ask my question, I just wanted to say that I've always fully believed and felt in my heart that we are not supposed to live in society.

Speaker 39 We're supposed to live in community. So I really appreciate this whole conversation.

Speaker 14 My question is about forgiveness in relationships that have ended. Any kind of relationship,

Speaker 14 be it friendships, family members, or lovers,

Speaker 14 what is your process like to move on and forgive yourself when you can't forgive them?

Speaker 4 Hmm.

Speaker 6 This is another one. I called Glennon about this recently.

Speaker 6 Didn't I?

Speaker 21 You could write a dissertation on forgiveness at this point.

Speaker 4 I think that's right.

Speaker 6 Well, I just think it's the most radical thing you can do is to forgive yourself and forgive someone else. But

Speaker 6 it's hard because sometimes you can be in a fight with someone and they don't know you're in a fight with them.

Speaker 6 Even if they've done something so awful to you, they might not really see it. And then you sit here and it's a year later and you're like,

Speaker 6 I don't want to forgive them because it's a really negative energy in my life and I don't need it. It makes me a worse person.

Speaker 6 And forgiving them means allowing them to come back in.

Speaker 6 And then, you know, forgiving yourself means that you would sort of move on from this person without telling them that you're in this world with them where you're you're wounded or you're upset or you're angry or kind of fucking done even.

Speaker 6 But like there has to be,

Speaker 6 if they're alive

Speaker 6 and if there's a way for you to have a moment without any expectation of outcome to say

Speaker 6 what you're forgiving them for or what you think that they did to wrong you.

Speaker 6 If there's a way for you to do that and make yourself safe, I think you can really aid in the forgiveness process of yourself. And then I think you can helpfully move on.

Speaker 6 And also, I don't know about the specific situation, so I don't want to encourage anything particularly dangerous for you, but also something may happen that would surprise you.

Speaker 6 So if you can find a way to have a confrontation and hold on to yourself first, sky's the limit. I think you can go all the way to forgiveness all by yourself once you've done that.

Speaker 6 And if you just can't, you can do it anyway. You can do it anyway.

Speaker 2 That's beautiful. And also, like, I think

Speaker 2 when we are judging a past version of ourselves,

Speaker 2 we call it, I need to forgive myself. That's what we say to ourselves because that's the language we have.
But when you think about it, we're always just doing the best we can.

Speaker 2 So if a new version of you is looking back at an old version of you and something you did, and saying, oh, I wish I didn't do that. That's all that is, is proof of growth.

Speaker 6 That's already, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 4 You're already better.

Speaker 6 That's done. Done and dusted, as Abby would say.

Speaker 4 Done and dusted.

Speaker 2 Maybe I need to forgive myself actually means I am awesome now. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Right? That's good. I'm going to do it.

Speaker 25 I'm going to say that.

Speaker 4 I am awesome now.

Speaker 2 I am amazing. I'm so much more amazing than I was before when I did that dumb thing.

Speaker 4 Look at me.

Speaker 21 Amazing.

Speaker 2 We got to go because we all have to get ready for ladies and gentlemen. Do we really have to go, though?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Listen, thank you all for coming today.

Speaker 20 And also, from the bottom of our hearts at We Can Do Hard Things, we really appreciate you tuning in and listening to us week in and week out.

Speaker 19 We love what we do, and we're going to keep doing it.

Speaker 8 Keep showing up, and we're going to keep showing up for you.

Speaker 4 We'll see you next time here, Potuad with you.

Speaker 2 Before we go, before we end this beautiful episode, here's something that I want to say to all of you who have been part of Together Rising for so long.

Speaker 2 Together Rising has sunset, and you all know that.

Speaker 2 And many of you have reached out to us and said, I trusted Together Rising for so long with my energy, with my funds to make the kind of difference in the world that I want to make.

Speaker 2 And now I don't know what to do. with that energy, with those funds.

Speaker 2 And we actually, as we sunset Together Rising, tried to connect you directly with many of the organizations who do the kind of work that Together Rising did for so long.

Speaker 2 I want to give you one more option.

Speaker 2 Catherine Carlisle and Brandi Carlisle run an incredible organization called the Looking Out Foundation, which I think aligns with Together Rising probably the most of any other organization I know in terms of intention, in terms of vision, in terms of who and how they see the world, tell the stories, and the change that they want to see is the same change that Together Rising wants to see.

Speaker 2 Also, the woman who was an executive director for Together Rising, Gloria,

Speaker 2 now runs

Speaker 2 the Looking Out Foundation. So the leadership of Together Rising,

Speaker 2 One important part of the leadership of Together Rising, moved directly over to the Looking Out Foundation. It's just that the synergy between the two are undeniable.

Speaker 2 And I trust Gloria, Brandy, and Catherine without hesitation.

Speaker 2 So, what I'm saying to you is: if you are looking for another place to plug in to become a donor, consider looking at the Looking Out Foundation.

Speaker 2 You can get more information about the Looking Out Foundation at lookingoutfoundation.org.

Speaker 2 Check it out. Consider it.
Abby and I trust it completely. Thanks, Pod Squad.

Speaker 2 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

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Speaker 2 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 2 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.