How to Lose Half of Your Guilt (Best Of)

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Speaker 1 So many tricky things happening all the time.

Speaker 2 There are so many tricky things happening all the time. And that is correct.
Without over promising, what I'm telling you today is that we are going to change your life.

Speaker 2 No, for real, because what we're going to do today is talk about how to to reframe guilt and what is guilt and what is not guilt and how we have been discussing how to free ourselves of 75% of what we consider guilt in our lives that is not at all guilt and is actually good shit.

Speaker 2 So let's get into this reframing because I think it could take a lot of weight. off your shoulders.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to try to describe it in my own way, even though I did not generate these ideas. I heard these ideas from Dr.
Becky.

Speaker 2 Does Dr. Becky have a last name?

Speaker 1 Kennedy. Oh,

Speaker 1 Becky Kennedy.

Speaker 2 I didn't know if she was like Beyonce or Adele, you know?

Speaker 1 Well, she's getting there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's getting there. Okay.
Dr. Becky Kennedy, you know how much we love Dr.
Becky.

Speaker 1 She's the good inside person. Good inside out, good inside.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she presents as a parenting expert, but she's a Trojan horse. Okay.

Speaker 2 You go in there thinking you're going to get some tips about your parenting and then she just messes you all up and then she fixes you okay so that's right because everyone thinks there's something terribly wrong with their kids no one thinks there's something terribly wrong with themselves exactly it's like when i was like i feel like my eyes are two different sizes in my pictures and then i realized no my eyes are just two different sizes It's like, I feel like there's something wrong with my parenting.

Speaker 2 And then you realize, oh, no, no, no, there's something molecularly wrong with me. And I need to rearrange myself and then my kids will be fine.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Dr. Becky Becky was talking about this concept.
Now I need

Speaker 2 help explaining this because, sister, you were there. You were not there, babe.

Speaker 1 So you will be able to tell me if this is making sense.

Speaker 2 Okay. And I'm actually going to run this by Dr.
Becky before

Speaker 2 I release it so that she can fix it if it needs to be.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Guilt.

Speaker 2 Let us talk about guilt for a second because

Speaker 2 the idea is that we are overusing the term and diagnosis of guilt when we feel guilty. So, Dr.
Becky said that guilt

Speaker 2 is what happens inside of us when we do something outside of our values.

Speaker 2 So, for example, I'm going to actually just use a parenting example right now to describe this, but like, let's say, so one time when one of my kids was little, they told me something

Speaker 2 in slight confidence and I shared it with a friend and then the friend said something in front of the kids that made it obvious that i had told

Speaker 2 my friend i know very bad busted and so not bad just busted just busted so but i'm still good inside so yes so in that moment i felt guilt

Speaker 2 because i had done something outside of my

Speaker 2 values because I value the trust that I have with my kid. I value confidence.
I value privacy. I

Speaker 2 did not honor that. I felt guilty.
Correct use of guilt. Now,

Speaker 2 we actually call a million other things guilt that are what Dr. Becky calls not guilt.
Okay, so for example, we call mom guilt guilt.

Speaker 2 Mom guilt is this idea that, okay, now here's a different scenario. I am going out to dinner with a friend

Speaker 2 and my kid is like, don't leave me, don't leave me. You're the worst.
Don't leave me. I'm crying, crying.
And then I say, I see you're upset, but I'm going to go meet with my friend.

Speaker 2 And then I go to dinner. And then I sit there and I say to my friend, I'm having so much mom guilt right now because I left my kid.

Speaker 2 That is not guilt because that is not acting outside of my values.

Speaker 2 I value my child seeing that I have friendships, that I have social connections, that I have a life outside of this home, that they can handle their business if I leave for an hour, that they have resilience, that I'm going to come back, that they can trust the people we love, leave and come back.

Speaker 2 Everything I'm doing right now is inside of my values. So what I'm feeling when I'm sitting at dinner is something.

Speaker 2 It's something. It feels uncomfortable, but it is not guilt.
So here's the difference to me.

Speaker 2 Dr. Becky called it guilt and not guilt.
Guilt is what I feel when I have acted outside of my values.

Speaker 2 What I think not guilt is, is the discomfort I feel when I have acted outside of cultural pressure or values. So, for example, if I work outside the home

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I go to an event or something where all the moms there do not work outside the home

Speaker 2 or work inside the home,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 they have more knowledge of, I'm maybe speaking from experience here. They have more knowledge about what is going on at school and what is going on between children.
And I feel something inside me.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I feel something inside me.
The lazy response to that, or what I have been taught to feel, is that that is mom guilt.

Speaker 2 No, it's not, because Working actually for me outside the home is not

Speaker 2 against my values. Working inside the home is not against my values either.
I've done both.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 at this moment, I value the fact that my kids are seeing me do the work that I do in the world.

Speaker 1 And not just in reference to your kids, because you're saying you value your kids seeing you go out to dinner, you value your kids seeing you work.

Speaker 1 You actually just value going out to dinner with your friends and you value actually working. Right.
So it doesn't, I mean, ancillarily, is that a word? Ancillarily?

Speaker 1 It also is helpful for your kids to see it, but I think it's good to claim. That's good.
If only for me, I value it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I value this. Good.
I value this. I value working.
I value going out. So I'm not doing anything against my own values.
That's even better.

Speaker 2 So I think it's helpful for all of us to think about when we feel guilty, it's something that we have done out. outside of our values that we need to maybe apologize for, maybe make right.

Speaker 2 But there is this whole other discomfort that we feel when we are acting outside of what the culture has told us to do.

Speaker 2 So I feel icky and sad because I have absorbed these messages from the culture that I'm supposed to have no life outside of

Speaker 2 the children. Or what's another example that has nothing to do with it? I have an example.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. Because yours are from the like family perspective of kids and stuff.
I think what's interesting is that you hear so often

Speaker 1 about it in terms of boundaries. So it doesn't necessarily have to be cultural

Speaker 1 expectations. I think it can be anyone's expectations.
For example, if you are always

Speaker 1 doing more than you should at work, if you are always saying yes when you mean no to your parents, if you are always taking on the extra volunteer position in your community, and then you start to adjust that,

Speaker 1 those expectations of all those people around you are going to be troubled.

Speaker 1 And you will feel that. And you will think it is guilt because you're quote unquote letting people down.
But if your value in setting a boundary is, I'm valuing my time, I'm valuing my rest.

Speaker 1 I am a person who values rest. I am a person who values doing things I want to do and not doing things begrudgingly I don't want to do.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Then you are actually acting within your values, maybe for the first time. Yes.
And there's going to be toler there that you think is guilt.

Speaker 1 And when you think something's guilt, you think that there's something you need to do to fix it. So you undo that boundary.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And what I think we need to shore up is that there are some guilt that we feel and guilt is when we've acted outside of our values.
That needs to be fixed or repaired.

Speaker 2 But we need to be able to identify this other discomfort that is just, I have held a value of my own.

Speaker 2 Yes. Guilt is: I've betrayed a value of my own.

Speaker 2 The other one is, I've withheld a boundary of my own, and that is making forces outside of me uncomfortable. So, for example, I am a workaholic who has decided I am actually going to rest,

Speaker 2 and I have a feeling inside of me when I say no to that thing.

Speaker 2 And I need to not fix it, but

Speaker 2 create resilience for this discomfort, which is this feeling inside of me means I am

Speaker 2 being loyal to my value as opposed to betraying my value. But we are labeling both as guilt.

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Speaker 1 So essentially we're saying, okay, you make a decision that isn't in line with your values and you feel bad about it.

Speaker 1 That is a form of guilt that is in the right alignment with the definition that we're trying to talk about. And then here on the other side, you have made a decision.

Speaker 1 that is in line with your values, but not in line with out their values, people out there, the culture, the family, and whatever. And yes, we are experiencing emotions, but that emotion is different.

Speaker 1 It's just discomfort in staying true to your value, but while maybe going in opposition to the values of other people and the outside world. Yes.

Speaker 2 So there's three options for every decision. One,

Speaker 2 It's in line with my values and in line with everybody else's values. I feel comfortable and happy.
Option two, I've made a decision that is outside of my values.

Speaker 2 I feel guilty.

Speaker 2 Number three, I've made a decision that is aligned with my values, but not necessarily aligned with somebody else's expectations of me. I feel something.

Speaker 2 It is not guilt.

Speaker 1 What is that?

Speaker 2 It is the ickiness that comes when I have stayed true to myself, but abandoned someone else's expectations. God, why does that feel that? And that we need to build resilience for.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I would just add a fourth category,

Speaker 1 which is why I think expectations

Speaker 1 is good language for this. It's like someone else's expectations because

Speaker 1 I think there's a fourth category where you can be operating within

Speaker 1 your own values, consistent with your values, and also be operating inconsistent with your expectations of yourself.

Speaker 1 So for example, and that might be the hardest place to be. So in your workaholism thing, it's like, or in your,

Speaker 1 I am a person who hustles and gets shit done. Maybe I am going to make a decision to let something be

Speaker 1 a solid B effort because I have a value to do X this weekend.

Speaker 1 And so I'm making that decision in line with my values, but it is not in line with my expectations of myself, which is to make sure I always am doing A-plus stuff.

Speaker 1 And that is the hardest thing because it's very tricky to determine what is an expectation of yourself that needs to be adjusted as opposed to a value of yourself that needs to be upheld. Yes.
Damn.

Speaker 1 Very good. Okay.
Uh-huh. Okay.
Okay. I get it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 one reason. to do this also is because when we decide

Speaker 2 what it is, the importance for me of knowing whether if this is guilt or not guilt, is if this is the feeling that I'm abandoning my own values or the feeling that I'm abandoning other values.

Speaker 1 Other expectations.

Speaker 2 Other expectations. Or yeah, is that that determines our posture next.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to go back to the mom example and then we can move into a different one. But if I am

Speaker 2 working or I am meeting a friend and I don't figure out which one that is. If I settle on, oh, this is guilt,

Speaker 2 my posture is, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 You know, I come home, I'm, oh, baby.

Speaker 2 The guilt that we show

Speaker 2 when we misidentify as guilt is that we in our body, in our voices, in our energy are apologizing.

Speaker 2 And that signals to the other person that we've done something wrong, which then they understand this is wrong.

Speaker 2 For example, if it's the work thing and I'm like, no, I actually am ending at five. I'm done.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go home and I'm going to rest.

Speaker 2 And because that's in line with my values or it's in line with an aspirational value, right?

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 2 it's aspirational. One day I'm going to believe this shit.
So I'm faking it. I'm going to do it until I believe it.
Right.

Speaker 1 And that's a lot of times what we're doing. Yeah, it's the story of my entire existence.

Speaker 2 Right. But I would argue that an aspirational value is our value or we wouldn't be longing for it.

Speaker 2 It's just something we haven't lived into yet.

Speaker 2 But if I identify that feeling that I have afterwards as guilt, then I'm apologetic in my,

Speaker 2 oh, I know, but tomorrow I'm going to work later or, you know, I'm so sorry. I'll do, I'll do more work over the weekend.
And that signals to everyone else that what she's doing is not okay.

Speaker 2 And then I'm complicit with the whole thing. That continues the pattern that I'm trying to break, as opposed to somebody seeing me say, I'm actually going to be done at five, and that's all.

Speaker 2 And they're like, Wow, we can do that. Yeah.
Then that is changing

Speaker 2 the values.

Speaker 1 I think that that's so, so important, the way that we respond to it, even in our bodies, right?

Speaker 1 It can either defeat the whole purpose of what we're trying to go and be in value of, or it can then project even more of the same stuff that we're trying to get away from.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 And just as important as it is to model that,

Speaker 1 I think it's equally important in our posture towards ourselves because

Speaker 1 then you're like, I am full of tolit.

Speaker 1 This wasn't correct.

Speaker 1 I am continuing to try to figure out what parts of this are right and what parts of it are wrong, as opposed to just

Speaker 1 having solidity in that.

Speaker 1 So when you come home, being like,

Speaker 1 you're sad and that's okay.

Speaker 1 Like, I was gone and you're sad and that's okay. And that's, that's right for you.

Speaker 2 And I had so much.

Speaker 1 And what's right for me is that I just went and did that. Yeah.
So we're meeting on this grassy plain where you are right and I am right. It's lovely to meet you here.

Speaker 1 What makes it so excruciating is like we're really

Speaker 1 trying to act out these deep, like breaking these deep-seated conditionings. Yes.
And it's like it's torture because it's like you've done this thing your whole life.

Speaker 1 You've believed this thing, or you've been taught this thing unknowingly.

Speaker 1 And to go kind of against that grain and to walk in your own integrity and in your own value, sometimes it is in opposition to what you've been conditioned to believe to be true.

Speaker 2 Exactly. That's what all these things are.
Yep.

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Speaker 2 And now I have another thing that Dr. Becky said that is going to help this.
How do you do this shit? How do you do this? Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Dr. Becky said

Speaker 2 that she wanted us to imagine a tennis game. Is it a match? A tennis

Speaker 2 situation.

Speaker 1 The tennis.

Speaker 2 The tennis. Okay, so think about a tennis field.

Speaker 1 Match. It's a court.

Speaker 2 Okay, think about a tennis court.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 One person's on one side, the other person's on the other side. Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 you are making a decision. Let's go to the example of I'm going to stop work at five o'clock.

Speaker 2 Or she used the example of I'm not going to go to my brother's cookout on Sunday because my family is is tired. We need some family time.

Speaker 2 Let's just stick with hers because I think we're closer to get to the essence of what she wants to know.

Speaker 1 Let's stick with hers because that worked, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Okay,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 2 we call our brother and we say,

Speaker 2 I'm actually not gonna host a barbecue on Sunday because my family needs some rest and we're just gonna have some family time.

Speaker 2 That is us hitting the ball over the net. We have done our part.
We have clearly and kindly stated what we're going to do.

Speaker 2 That is not the hard part because the hardest part of boundaries is not setting the boundary. The hardest part of boundaries is holding the boundary.
It's not saying the thing, it's what happens next.

Speaker 2 Because what happens next is: all right, the ball is now in the brother's court.

Speaker 2 The brother or anybody to whom you deliver

Speaker 2 a boundary to has every right to have feelings about it.

Speaker 2 They're going to have feelings. That's what people have.
That brother might hit the ball back to you or try to hit the ball back to you with some sort of like, but

Speaker 1 whoa. But I hosted you last weekend.

Speaker 2 I hosted you last weekend. Or, but we miss you.
We love you. Or why are you so selfish?

Speaker 2 It could be a lot of things. He's really looking forward to this.
Right. For those of us who are extremely sensitive to other people's emotions, it could be a turn of an eyeball.
It could be like

Speaker 2 a smile that goes different.

Speaker 1 It could be it could be a text back that says, Kay, period.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Then you just have to burn your phone.
It doesn't have to be a you're so selfish. Like for me, all it has to be somebody else does is a raised eyebrow.

Speaker 2 Now, here's what we do. What we do is we internalize into our bodies the other person's reaction.
We have delivered the boundary. We have the peace inside of us.

Speaker 1 We

Speaker 1 are okay.

Speaker 2 Then the other person has whatever their reaction is or whatever our perception of their reaction is. And what we do is we embody it.
We bring it into our body.

Speaker 2 We were fine a second ago and now it's like invasion of the body snatchers. And for anyone who

Speaker 2 is like me, you can understand what I'm saying. It sounds weird, but it's like, no, you're not yourself anymore.
You are now internalizing the imagined feelings of the other person. Okay.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 2 the really interesting part of this is the reason we have to avoid this, that we have to not let our bodies be invaded

Speaker 2 is because we're making that shit up. We can't embody someone else's feelings.
So now we're not even seeing the other person because we have an imagined experience of the other person in our body.

Speaker 2 So now we're not having our own experience and we're not seeing the other experience. We're just completely invaded.

Speaker 1 Just assuming you know assuming. Yep.
Right.

Speaker 2 Now, in case it's getting weird, I want to explain that I saw this happen

Speaker 2 a couple of days ago. Okay.
Outside of myself, because usually I'm the one getting invaded.

Speaker 1 So I want to- Okay, pause for a second. Okay.
Because it is both in the, I'm assuming I know how you feel and also

Speaker 1 In the case of

Speaker 1 not having to guess, you could have a really thoughtful, great relationship where the brother says, I'm actually really hurt. My family was really looking forward to doing this.

Speaker 1 I didn't feel like doing this last week and I did it. Like it really hurts me.
And so there can be a very clear, you don't have to assume or fill in any gaps situation.

Speaker 1 And yet.

Speaker 1 the same still applies. So I just want to make sure that like,

Speaker 1 the theory we're talking about now works with both the assuming what other person is thinking and when you have a very clear read on even if the person has sensitively and thoughtfully given you explanation of how they feel as a result of your boundary.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And either way, you just kind of want to die inside because you're

Speaker 1 want to make it better. What you have just created, the mess that you have just created, you hit your ball over, they hit it back and you're like, okay, got the ball now.
I'll take care of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And you're not even there yet.
You're just like a mess of of the other person's feelings. You are trying to experience it.
Okay. Here's what happened.

Speaker 2 So I'm at our little local grocery store recently, and there's a woman who's a cashier who works there quite often. And I just adore her for some reason.
She's like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. She's an old lady who calls me honey.
So it's done for me. I'm just in love with her.

Speaker 1 That's all it takes, people. That's all it takes.
Stop trying so hard. You just have to call people honey and you're all good.

Speaker 2 If you're an older woman,

Speaker 1 anyone else, then I you're dead to me. Yeah, no, no, no, no.
Clearly. Yes.
right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 she is checking people out. Now, I will say about my friend is she's not the fastest check, checker outer.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 2 not the fastest.

Speaker 1 Look at you so evolved. You're liking even slow check arounders these days.
God, this therapy is working.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, it's one of those places where there's only ever like four people in line.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So it's not. So there's this person in line who's right in front of me.

Speaker 2 And my beloved cashier is doing her checking, and she is not going super fast. And this person in front of me is so pissed about it.

Speaker 2 And I don't even think that this person was saying any words, but it was just like they were, their body was so obviously annoyed and like shifting feet and rolling eyes and doing all of these things that was so obvious.

Speaker 2 Because once again, this is a small place. There's only four people in line.
So I am behind this person.

Speaker 2 My body is gone. I'm invasioned of the body snatchers, but I'm half internalizing this person's angst.
Mostly I'm internalizing how I think the cashier is feeling about this person's discomfort.

Speaker 2 So I am livid. I am hurt.
I am upset. I am everybody in the room.
I am hating this person in front of me.

Speaker 2 Okay. Just homicidal, this person in front of me who is hurting the feelings of my favorite favorite cashier who calls me honey.

Speaker 2 By the time this person in front of me gets to the cash register, I'm sweating. I am in hatred.
My cashier friend has made no changes,

Speaker 2 has not reacted in any way to this human being.

Speaker 2 It is as if she has not noticed, which is impossible not to notice. Everyone has noticed.

Speaker 2 The person gets to the front and my cashier friend looks at the person with complete serenity and says, oh, are you in a hurry, honey?

Speaker 2 With no judgment, just, are you in a hurry, honey?

Speaker 2 And the person in front of me takes a second and says,

Speaker 2 yeah, my dog's at home sick.

Speaker 2 And then the cashier friend said, okay,

Speaker 2 and finished doing their things

Speaker 2 and then checked out.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 2 I have experienced the equivalent of a marathon. I am tired.
I need a nap.

Speaker 1 Now you're so worried about this person's dog.

Speaker 1 You're questioning every moral judgment you've ever made about everyone.

Speaker 2 That's right. Because a dog comes in.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Now, here's what I want to say about that whole entire experience.

Speaker 2 It made me think of

Speaker 2 our friend, Dr. Brene Brown.
We will list all of these episodes, the Dr. Becky episodes, Dr.
Brene Brown's episode.

Speaker 2 A study that Dr. Brene Brown did where she and her team canvassed all these people.

Speaker 2 She cares about facts. So she doesn't just say how she feels.

Speaker 1 She's one of those weird ones.

Speaker 2 She's one of those weird ones.

Speaker 1 She has like charts and she's a scientist. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like I always say, Brene is just a shame researcher.
And so am I. But my field is the whole world in my life.
I just do things, feel shame, and then study myself.

Speaker 1 She

Speaker 2 wanted to find out what people who were the most compassionate

Speaker 2 had in common. The most compassionate people.

Speaker 2 What is the one thing that they most had in common? And they had a lot of hypotheses, such as maybe they all have a spiritual practice. Maybe they all meditate.
Maybe they all have good parents.

Speaker 2 Maybe they have what, you know, who knows?

Speaker 2 Do you know what the number one thing that all of the most compassionate people had in common?

Speaker 1 What? They call people honey?

Speaker 2 They had the strongest and most consistent boundaries.

Speaker 1 Oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 The strongest and most consistent boundaries.

Speaker 2 Why is that?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 2 because my cashier friend, when she is not letting her body be snatched by another person, she can actually see that other person.

Speaker 2 The other person is still an other to her.

Speaker 1 So she can empathize with them.

Speaker 2 She can empathize with them. If we go back to our friend who's telling their brother,

Speaker 2 I really am not going to do the barbecue. And the brother says, that makes me so sad.
We hosted, we did the thing. And then I don't take it all in.
I'm still looking at my brother thinking,

Speaker 2 my brother's really sad. My brother really loves me.

Speaker 2 We have this situation where I need this time on Sunday and I'm going to take it and I'm going to keep it. And

Speaker 2 my brother's sad and loves me and my family and wants to make this work. So I say to my brother, that's beautiful.
And I love you too. When are we going to see each other again? Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's no problem that needs to be fixed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she used the example that you could actually, when you don't take the ball back, like, so how it plays out when you take the ball back is you take the ball back and from your brother and then you say, okay, oh, never mind.

Speaker 1 You're right. You're right.
You're right. You're right.
I feel what you feel. And I am now going to schlep my family out to your place and we're going to do the barbecue.

Speaker 1 And the way that works is you've just trampled your own boundary. So you're pissed and resentful because you have actually acted.
contrary to your value, which knew that you needed family time.

Speaker 1 So when you put the like glass wall on the tennis court, and when the brother hits it, it stays with him. Then you can see him and you can actually be like, you know what?

Speaker 1 I understand your frustration. I honestly would be pissed too if you made plans with me, I was relying on them, and then you backed out of it.
I'd be sad and frustrated and annoyed too.

Speaker 1 And I totally hit that. So, you actually are able to connect in the way where you can

Speaker 1 see them with their feeling

Speaker 1 instead of taking their feeling into you. And then you can't see yourself or them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the same with the kid thing. If you come home and you're like, you're sad, so I'm sad.

Speaker 2 But if you're keeping, no, I'm acting within my value and you're sad. And now we're two people that are having two different feelings together.

Speaker 2 And where do we go from there?

Speaker 1 So can I just bring back to the tennis court analogy a little bit? So the ball goes over to the brother. Brother is going to have his feelings.
He's going to try to to hit that ball back to you

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 we are supposed to then acknowledge okay he's gonna have his feelings but almost put this like

Speaker 1 invisible cloak around us that those feelings are real but they are not going to enter our bodies right they need to stay with him got it his feelings stay with him so what she's saying is either push the ball back and not an aggressive way, but just like, oh,

Speaker 1 this was getting confused, but that ball belongs to you. And so I'm going to give it back to its rightful owner.
Right. And you're not saying that.

Speaker 1 No, you're not saying it, but in your mind,

Speaker 1 you're like, I'm going to analyze this ball coming back to me. Is this guilt or is this not guilt?

Speaker 1 First, I analyze, have I acted consistent with my values? Okay. My value is to know that when I need rest, know when my family needs family time, know we need a quiet weekend.
Okay. Yes.
So check.

Speaker 1 So since I've acted in accordance with my values, I know this is

Speaker 1 not guilt that I'm feeling. It's not guilt.
So that means that the ball that's coming back to me actually belongs on the other side of the net. And so I'm going to gently push it back.

Speaker 1 And now that it's where it belongs, I can say, God, it sucks to have that ball. And I'm sorry that like you're feeling that way and I'd be feeling that way too.
And what should we do next?

Speaker 1 Also, I've still made the right decision for my family. Cool.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It has to do with embodiment.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it has to do with embodiment, like learning to embody your own feelings, not take on other people's stuff. And remembering

Speaker 2 that for all of my love bugs out there who are afraid that that's not kind,

Speaker 2 what I'm saying to you is

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 That is what makes people kind

Speaker 2 is the ability to keep your own feelings and see other people's feelings for their feelings so that you can see them and truly empathize with them?

Speaker 2 Because we can't empathize when we are not containing ourselves and seeing other people.

Speaker 1 I have a question that is probably like the varsity level question of this that we didn't get to when Dr. Becky was teaching us this.
But

Speaker 1 how do I know?

Speaker 1 that it's consistent with my values.

Speaker 1 Because if I'm doing the self-analysis on that particular scenario that she outlined where I'm like, okay, I had committed to go to this barbecue my brother's hosting. I

Speaker 1 now know that I definitely don't want to go. If I'm doing that self-analysis, there are three sets of values that I could be thinking about.
I have a value

Speaker 1 to be committed. to showing up for my family and integrating my family with meaningful time together.
I have a value to keep my commitments that I make to people and be trustworthy.

Speaker 1 My word is reliable. I have a value to honor what I know my family needs.
And in this moment, we need rest and time together. My question is, how the hell do I know?

Speaker 1 Because something that is in line with value number three

Speaker 1 is necessarily not in line with value number two and arguably value number one in that situation. So I think that's the hardest part.
Agreed. Yeah.
How do you do that?

Speaker 1 I think to me, I think about it from like a priority level.

Speaker 1 Like, yes, we have a lot of values, things that we really care about, but every circumstance, certain values rise a little bit higher in priority than others.

Speaker 1 And to me, that's kind of how I weigh some decisions. And that's just like kind of instinctive.

Speaker 1 And then, of course, it's like communicating with the people around you, your family, figuring out what the values of this specific situation will rise to the top or fall a little.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because it is true that these are nuanced decisions. So you can have values that are, that feel clashing.
Like, you know, the other day I was like, do you want to do this thing for work?

Speaker 2 And it's like, well, I value building our. business.
I value connection. I value these things.
I also value saying no and resting and not doing things.

Speaker 2 So in those situations, I really do think, okay, what makes me feel clenchy and what makes me feel expansive?

Speaker 2 What makes me feel warm? What makes me feel cold? That sounds so woo-woo and cheesy, but that is truly how. And also I always think this.

Speaker 2 Do I want to do this thing today or tomorrow?

Speaker 2 I am constantly making plans for some future version of myself because I think that person's going to be different than the person I am right now. Like I'm constantly like, sure, I'll want to do that.

Speaker 2 Since it's a month from now, I'll be be a different person by then. I have never really wanted to.
I've never woken up and been like, yes, I can't wait. No, you're inviting me to a party.

Speaker 2 Do I want to go to that tonight? If I don't want to go to that tonight, I am not going to want to do that in 30 tonights, right?

Speaker 1 I think the one way to think about it that I just thought of is that resentment is my superpower.

Speaker 1 And by that, I mean it's the opposite of that. That

Speaker 1 trying to

Speaker 1 be a hero and quote unquote do the right thing

Speaker 1 for and to others when your most honest self knows that doing that quote unquote right thing will actually introduce your own resentment

Speaker 1 towards the person and in the relationship,

Speaker 1 then it's bullshit that you're doing the right thing.

Speaker 2 Yes. Picture yourself getting ready to go do that thing.
Do you feel bitter and resentful? Then don't go because you're doing nobody any favors.

Speaker 1 Right. So I think that's a good, at least if for people like me, when you're caught between, am I acting consistent with value system one, two, or three? It's like, am I introducing

Speaker 1 resentment in me towards someone I love or respect?

Speaker 1 or as part of the ecosystem of our relationship. And if the answer is yes

Speaker 1 and you think you're doing that to do the right thing, you're actually not.

Speaker 1 You're doing the lazy ass thing, which is what I do, which is like, okay, well, then I don't have to be confused about whether I'm making the right decision.

Speaker 1 So I'll just do it, but I'll just be pissy and resentful internally. And that will no doubt affect this relationship.

Speaker 2 Exactly. I want there to be a word

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 2 the not guilt. Like, what is the word for the thing we feel inside of us when we are

Speaker 2 betraying

Speaker 2 an expectation or a cultural value or someone else's feelings?

Speaker 2 So we feel icky.

Speaker 1 I was just going to say it's ick. It's icky.

Speaker 2 But it needs to like be more specific than that.

Speaker 1 Should we say like it's the good guilt? I don't know if we should keep guilt.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's guilt. I don't think the, yeah, good guilt is like the vibe.
Yeah. But what is the word?

Speaker 2 If any pod squad, I've been thinking about this and I can't come up with it, which is making me,

Speaker 1 you know, that I like a word. I like a word.

Speaker 1 So inconsistent with your values to not have a word. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 2 So if you think of what that word is or you have any ideas about this, let me know because I think we need to help each other build that resilience. So if you can think of a word for us, let us know.

Speaker 2 Call us, email us.

Speaker 2 And also, we want to hear your thoughts and ideas about this, right? This is a big deal. Women in guilt.
Oh, my goodness. We need a huge cultural reframe reframe on all of this.

Speaker 2 So thanks for hanging in there with us.

Speaker 1 Dial in 747-200-5307.

Speaker 2 We will see you next time, lovebugs.

Speaker 1 Bye. See ya.

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Speaker 2 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 2 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and this show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.