Being the Boss of Yourself with RHOBH’s Bozoma Saint John (Best Of)

Speaker 1 You know what we don't talk enough about? Sleep. I mean, we spend a third of our lives doing it, and it literally impacts everything.

Speaker 1 Your mood, focus, workouts, even how you show up for the people you love. But here's the thing: not all sleep is good sleep.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm obsessed with my Coupe Sleep Goods and my Coupe Adjustable Pillow. It is revolutionary because it's an adjustable pillow where you can remove or add fill to fit your sleep needs.

Speaker 1 Back sleeper, side sleeper, stomach sleeper, this pillow actually adapts to you, not the other way around.

Speaker 1 I got two of these king-size original adjustable pillows after I completed the short sleep quiz, which I highly recommend everyone do. You can ensure you're buying the exact right pillow for you.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love being able to take out the fill until it was perfectly adjusted to my neck and spine.
You can feel the difference, and I want all of our listeners to try this pillow.

Speaker 1 Upgrade your sleep, visit coopsleepgoods.com/slash hard things to get 20% off your first order. That's c o

Speaker 1 p sleep goods.com/slash hard things.

Speaker 1 So, question, first question. Yes.

Speaker 1 Glennon. Yes.
Are you still being an African auntie? Are you checking your WhatsApp? No.

Speaker 3 I don't check WhatsApp anymore.

Speaker 1 I'm very, very disappointed, Glennon.

Speaker 1 Because Lovey and I taught you about WhatsApp and the importance of it. If you are going to be a true African auntie, you have to check your WhatsApp because that's how the messages come.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And I sent you a video from this morning.

Speaker 1 Wait, hold on. Let me see if I can just play it here so you can see it.
Maybe you won't hear the sound. This was critical this morning.
It was God talking to me this morning.

Speaker 3 Okay. What did God say to you?

Speaker 1 God

Speaker 1 said

Speaker 1 this. Can you kind of see

Speaker 1 my mother? What? And her shirt says, I can do hard things.

Speaker 3 No way. This morning?

Speaker 1 This morning, I came in from the gym and she was in the kitchen and she was dancing around

Speaker 1 wearing a shirt that said, I can do her things. And I looked at her and I was just like, where did that come from?

Speaker 1 And she was like, oh, do you like it? I was like,

Speaker 1 why did you do that? And she was like, oh, I just, this is just a shirt. I just put it on.
We both freaked out when I told her what was going on today. Oh my gosh.
So I sent it to you on WhatsApp.

Speaker 1 And look at you. You missed the message.

Speaker 3 Well, look what I deserve to miss that beautiful message because I did not check in.

Speaker 1 But I feel like

Speaker 1 this is what we were meant to do today.

Speaker 3 Yep. It was destined.
Destined. I know it was destined because

Speaker 3 we have been so delighted all morning because

Speaker 3 we knew we were about to see your face and we haven't seen you for a while.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I know.
I miss both of you so much.

Speaker 3 First of all, I should tell everyone what's happening. There are a lot of people listening and they're like, this is a lovely conversation, but who's talking? What's happening?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Yes.

Speaker 3 We

Speaker 1 have

Speaker 3 over time noticed, Bose, that

Speaker 3 the pod squad here on We Can Do Hard Things has 40 million questions about being a woman in the workforce

Speaker 3 or really being any kind of marginalized human in the workforce. And

Speaker 3 I want to answer their questions, but I am not really in the workforce. I am mostly in the bathtub.

Speaker 1 Confirm. Okay.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 we

Speaker 3 decided, Abby and I, that there really couldn't be any more qualified human being on the earth.

Speaker 1 Ever. Ever.

Speaker 3 To discuss and guide the world, really, through the minefield

Speaker 1 of work and womanhood.

Speaker 3 And that human being is Bozema St. John, who also happens to be a dear friend of ours.
Can you introduce?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Bozema St. John is a Hall of Fame inducted marketing executive, author, entrepreneur, and in our opinion, a general badass.

Speaker 3 Also the world's opinion.

Speaker 1 Bose has led global consumer marketing at Apple, Music, and iTunes. She was chief brand officer at Uber and global chief marketing officer at Netflix.
Bose is currently...

Speaker 1 named the number one most influential CMO in the world by Forbes and has been named one of Billboard's Billboard's most powerful women in music for 10 consecutive years. Same.

Speaker 1 In 2021, Harvard Business School published a multimedia case study on her career titled Leading with Authenticity and Urgency, through which she developed and taught a program at the university aptly named The Anatomy of a Badass.

Speaker 1 Bose was named as an ambassador for the African diaspora and special envoy to the president of Ghana. And in the spring of 2023, Penguin Books will publish publish her memoir, The Urgent Life.

Speaker 1 Bose counts her highest achievement as being a mother to her 12-year-old daughter, Lael. Oh, you guys.

Speaker 1 Welcome.

Speaker 3 Do you listen to your bio and say,

Speaker 3 What is my life? What did I do? How, what?

Speaker 1 Yeah, all of that. All of that.
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 I am also in awe.

Speaker 1 It's amazing. All the things.
It doesn't actually make sense because the

Speaker 1 stats are not in my favor and have never been and so it is yes it it strikes me as awe-inspiring too yeah honey do you remember the first time we met bose of course we met bose yeah

Speaker 1 on the together page yeah that's right yeah

Speaker 3 i walked into a room and you were already there

Speaker 3 I told Abby this morning, the first thing I noticed about you was your clothes.

Speaker 3 Abby said, is it okay to say that? Is that objectifying? And I was like, I don't know. It's both.
So I'm just going to,

Speaker 3 it's fine.

Speaker 1 Totally fine. Yes.

Speaker 3 I thought you were the most incredibly beautifully dressed human I'd ever seen. And I was intimidated because of your fancy that were all the words behind your name.

Speaker 3 When you were on stage, though, talking, what I was telling Abby this morning that I was most struck by was you were so bold and strong when you were talking about work in the world.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 the conversation switched to your daughter and motherhood.

Speaker 3 And then this unbelievable vulnerability came forward. This softness, you just never see both.

Speaker 1 Yes, either the strong or the soft, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're strong and soft are both soft.

Speaker 1 Do you remember meeting us? Were we rememberable? Rememberable? Oh, rememberable. Yes, you were rememberable.

Speaker 1 You were rememberable because also I had seen both of you separately before I saw you in person, obviously. Abby, clearly,

Speaker 1 hello there. The whole world had seen you already.
I knew that. I was very excited about that.
Glennon, I don't even know if I even told you this. I first saw you

Speaker 1 on Oprah stage

Speaker 1 at USC. Oh, I didn't know that.
I was only able to be there for like one session and it was yours.

Speaker 1 And I sat in the audience and then this sprite of a person came across the stage. And I was like, oh, this is the most interesting white woman I have ever seen in my life.

Speaker 1 Like, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, her, that one, this, this one. Oh.

Speaker 1 And honest.

Speaker 1 You know, I hadn't heard such honesty before. So by the time we got to the together live tour, oh, I knew exactly who in the hell y'all were.

Speaker 1 I did not know that. And you did not disappoint.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Still honest.
Even backstage, still honest. So I was very, very impressed by you both in person.

Speaker 3 Thank you, bose.

Speaker 3 So one of our themes this year on this pod

Speaker 3 is how to know when to dig deep and stay

Speaker 3 and how to know when to stop digging and go.

Speaker 3 This is something

Speaker 3 that we have not figured out yet. Okay, just to preface you with that, but I keep thinking of it in terms of you because I've read some quotes that you've said recently.

Speaker 3 So you recently left Netflix where you were the global chief marketing officer and you said this, you have to know when time is up and keep it moving.

Speaker 3 And then you said, you don't have to be the savior. You can save yourself too.

Speaker 3 So chills. How did you know when it was time to leave Netflix? Like, how do you know when it's time to leave a place? What settles in?

Speaker 1 It is so hard to articulate.

Speaker 1 It really is.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's hard to articulate because

Speaker 1 of that hard place of trying to figure out whether or not

Speaker 1 the problem is you.

Speaker 1 or the problem is them.

Speaker 1 You know, when they say like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, it's not you, it's not, it's not you, it's me.

Speaker 1 It's like, how many times do you have to say that before you realize that, no, no, it's actually not me at all, it's them. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then the disappointment in that.

Speaker 1 In knowing that

Speaker 1 you chose, you decided.

Speaker 1 And they were the problem.

Speaker 1 To be able to admit that is so hard. You know, so so then, yeah, you spend the time trying to prove that you actually were not wrong, that you chose right.

Speaker 1 That's what you spend your energy doing. So that's what happens to me too.

Speaker 1 That

Speaker 1 often I'm in a situation and I'm like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, I chose right because I'm good at choosing.

Speaker 1 I've thought about it. I have followed my intuition.
God told me and I moved. I went.

Speaker 1 And then at some point you're you're like, uh-oh, I don't think this is right.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 But I've spent so much time then

Speaker 1 trying to convince myself that I wasn't wrong.

Speaker 1 You know, and that it must be me.

Speaker 1 That if I'm only

Speaker 1 smarter, if I'm only

Speaker 1 more likable,

Speaker 1 if I'm only wittier,

Speaker 1 if I'm only more amenable,

Speaker 1 then maybe I'm not wrong. Because how could I be wrong?

Speaker 1 I know myself.

Speaker 1 I take no shit.

Speaker 1 I could never be wrong in that.

Speaker 1 It's become very humbling, actually.

Speaker 1 We were talking about like being strong and soft. It's like you can be self-assured and also humble and humble in knowing that sometimes you get it wrong.

Speaker 1 Sometimes you get it wrong again and again and again

Speaker 1 and again.

Speaker 3 That's That's right.

Speaker 1 In that wrongness,

Speaker 1 it's okay. You still survive.
You can be wrong.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm very comfortable in being wrong now. Very, very comfortable.
I'm like, oh,

Speaker 1 wrong turn again.

Speaker 1 And everyone will know.

Speaker 3 And God is like the GPS. It's like redirecting, redirecting.

Speaker 1 And you missed your turn.

Speaker 3 It's so fascinating, Bose. I've never heard anyone describe it like that.

Speaker 3 But it is like at some point, whether it's a marriage or a job, relationship, whatever, at some point you realize, oh, it's me either way, because either it's me in this situation that's making it hard,

Speaker 3 or it's me that made the decision before to go into this relationship.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 It's me. It's me.
It's me. It's not them.
It's me.

Speaker 1 And that is such a...

Speaker 1 Hard thing.

Speaker 1 It is a hard thing to acknowledge. It's a hard thing to accept.
You know, and then it's a hard thing to correct.

Speaker 3 You have the moment where you're like, either way, it's me, whether it was me that got me into this

Speaker 3 or it's me that's making being in it hard. Yes.
I'm choosing me.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 I'm choosing me. I'm getting the hell out.

Speaker 1 Yes. I'm going to stop for me.
I'm forgiving me. Yes.
I'm forgiving me

Speaker 1 for making the wrong choice again.

Speaker 1 We're so hard on ourselves.

Speaker 1 Beat yourself up. I should have known better.

Speaker 1 I've seen it before. I should have seen it again.

Speaker 1 Right. And so then it's like the forgiving myself.
And I'm talking about me.

Speaker 1 I constantly have to forgive myself for sometimes making the wrong call for myself. You know, it's so much easier, right? To like forgive other people.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So much, not sometimes it's hard, but you know, it's so much easier to say, oh, well, that person made a mistake. Like if I look at my daughter

Speaker 1 and she makes a mistake, right? I'm like, oh, hun, it's fine. You're still an amazing person.
Like, that was just,

Speaker 1 that was just, it was bad for the moment. It's okay.
It's okay. We're going to figure it out.

Speaker 1 Right. I encourage her that she can make mistakes and that she can turn around and do better.
But yet for myself,

Speaker 1 oh, I could spend months,

Speaker 1 you know, saying, but why did you do that? You knew better. You know, and that's what becomes so hard about the

Speaker 3 staying or the going how fast can i forgive myself for making the wrong decision oh that's good will determine how quickly i'm able to get out and correct it's that thing about when you grab on to barbed wire don't just hold on forever like don't don't keep making the mistake because you've put so much time into making the mistake like that's right the quickest we always talk about the

Speaker 3 squishing the time like all of our suffering comes in the time between the knowing and the doing.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes. Yes.
It's like, yes.

Speaker 1 Yes. I was having a conversation with a friend and I was like, you know, that time, you know, when you hit your shin?

Speaker 1 And that moment between knowing you've hit your shin and when the pain sets in is like the worst. Yes.
Because you're just sitting there waiting for the pain to come.

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, I know this is going to hurt. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That moment right there is what sometimes we're sitting in.

Speaker 1 Because you don't want the pain to come. And so then we're sitting there being like, ooh, I made a mistake.
Uh-oh, I hit my shin. How long can I wait before the pain sets in? Yes.

Speaker 2 The origins of We Can Do Our Things were once just a dream of community and connection and expression. That dream turned into the podcast you are listening to today.

Speaker 2 Starting your own business is a dream lots of us share, but too many of us let it remain just a dream. Don't hold yourself back thinking, what if I don't have the skills? What if I can't do it alone?

Speaker 2 Turn those what-ifs into why-nots with Shopify by your side.

Speaker 2 Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S., from giant corporate household names to brands just getting started.

Speaker 2 You can choose choose from hundreds of beautiful templates to build your store, use AI tools to write product descriptions and enhance your photos, and even launch email or social campaigns that make it look like you've got a full marketing team behind you.

Speaker 2 Take it from me, if you're launching your own business, you do not want to do it alone. There are tools that can help.
We used Shopify to sell our We Can Do Hard Things merch on our book tour.

Speaker 2 We gave 100% of the proceeds of the merch away to nonprofits, and Shopify helped us to do all of that easily and seamlessly. Turn those dreams into

Speaker 2 and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash hard things.

Speaker 2 Go to shopify.com slash hard things.

Speaker 2 Shopify.com slash hard things.

Speaker 2 Let's talk about finding your perfect fit just in time for the holidays.

Speaker 2 Whether you're traveling to see family or relaxing at home, Third Love has you covered with bras and undies that look and feel incredible.

Speaker 2 For over 10 years, Third Love has been redefining comfort and support, offering thoughtfully designed bras in over 60 sizes from AA to H, including exclusive half cup sizes.

Speaker 2 Their bras are made with high quality materials and innovative details like thermoregulating fabric to keep you cool, soothing designs for a seamless look, and options for lift and added support.

Speaker 2 I love my third love bra. I've been searching for literal decades for a bra that feels this good, and now that I found it, I'm never letting it go.

Speaker 2 Right now, during their Black Friday sale, you can shop their entire collection for up to 60% off. Plus, spend $135 and you'll get an extra $25 off.

Speaker 2 Perfect for holiday outfits or gifting yourself a little comfort this season. The sale won't last forever, so head to thirdlove.com and find your perfect fit today.

Speaker 1 One thing I love about our listeners is how industrious all of you are. The stories we hear about you guys going off on your own and starting your own ventures like we did, it's truly inspiring.

Speaker 1 It's a big part of why NetSuite came to us as a sponsor. NetSuite offers real-time data and insights for so many business owners.
And by that, I mean over 42,000 businesses.

Speaker 1 NetSuite offers the number one AI-powered cloud ERP. Think of it as a central nervous system for your business.

Speaker 1 Instead of juggling separate tools for accounting here, HR there, inventory somewhere else, NetSuite pulls everything into one seamless platform.

Speaker 1 That means you finally have one source of truth, real visibility, real control, and the power to make smarter decisions faster.

Speaker 1 With real-time data and forecasting, you're not just reacting to what already happened. You're planning for what's next.

Speaker 1 And whether your company is bringing in a few million million or hundreds of millions, NetSuite scales with you.

Speaker 1 It helps you tackle today's challenges and chase down tomorrow's opportunities without missing a beat.

Speaker 1 Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com/slash hard things.

Speaker 1 The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things.

Speaker 1 Netsuite.com/slash hard things.

Speaker 1 Now, I understand, like from a personal perspective, you might view some of these choices that you've made as a mistake, but I have kind of another

Speaker 1 perspective

Speaker 1 that the world is only ready when it's ready. So corporate America

Speaker 1 might only be ready for a Bozema St. John

Speaker 1 in their minds.

Speaker 1 And then in practicality, Bozema St. John walks to the door and starts to fuck shit up and starts to do her work.
And they're like, ah, actually, I don't know if we're this ready yet.

Speaker 1 Right. I don't know.
Right. And so maybe it feels like a personal mistake or a personal decision that you've made that you don't think was great or in hindsight, you may have chosen differently.

Speaker 1 But from the perspective of the macro, I think what you're doing is you're laying a foundation for those of us who will come after you

Speaker 1 and getting the corporate worlds or all of those tables you sat at a little bit more ready for people in certain ways.

Speaker 1 And I think that that's really important not to get lost in this conversation that your

Speaker 1 presence and representation at some of those tables. And this leads me to my question.

Speaker 1 You've been at all of the most powerful tables in the corporate world.

Speaker 1 How does it feel to so often be the one who looks like you at those tables?

Speaker 3 The only one, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably the only one. Yeah, yeah.
No, I look, Abby, thank you for that perspective, you know, because I do often need the reminder of that too. You know, and so I think both can be true.

Speaker 1 Part of the reason why I

Speaker 1 stopped looking at them as the cause or

Speaker 1 the reason why sometimes something didn't work or, you know, for me to figure that out is that I felt like I was giving my power away. And perhaps that's a survival mechanism.

Speaker 1 You know, that I was like, well, if I look at myself, if I say it's me, then I'm better able to feel like, okay,

Speaker 1 I can make something else happen. I can be the one who chooses because I chose to come and I can choose to leave.

Speaker 1 And if I put the power over there, then it feels like I can't choose because I'm waiting for them to do the thing that's right.

Speaker 1 And so when I'm sitting at those tables,

Speaker 1 and yes, almost always by myself,

Speaker 1 it is both frustrating

Speaker 1 to know that

Speaker 1 I'm probably doing the right thing for the future.

Speaker 1 But also that I'm the one who has to take the brunt

Speaker 1 of it. You know, that

Speaker 1 I actually, again, like,

Speaker 1 I've been thinking a lot lately,

Speaker 1 ever since I left my job, doing a lot of thinking. And I was just like,

Speaker 1 damn, like the idea of hidden figures hurts so much

Speaker 1 because to think that perhaps you were the catalyst for something and then nobody. remembers your name.

Speaker 1 Nobody gives you the credit. And that's what it feels like when I'm in the room.
You know, I'm thinking, this is going to be so great for the people who come after.

Speaker 1 But will anybody remember me? Remember my pain, this moment, this choice I made?

Speaker 1 And if not, is that okay?

Speaker 1 Am I all right with it?

Speaker 1 Am I okay with the sacrifice?

Speaker 1 And if I'm being totally transparent and honest, I'm not.

Speaker 1 I'm not okay with it.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be hidden. I don't want to be forgotten.
And yes, people can say, oh, but how can you be? You're going to be in the Hall of Fame. You're this and you're that.

Speaker 1 And people know your name.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 I want the credit.

Speaker 1 Of course you do.

Speaker 3 I deserve it. I love that you said that.
And it

Speaker 1 for me, it makes me think about being in those rooms and the temptation of wanting to align. and become them and to align with the men, the white men in those rooms.
Yes.

Speaker 1 How easy and alluring that is. I've talked about that.

Speaker 1 that you know and i feel like yeah this is the this is the real fight is to resist to keep resisting the urge in that alignment how do you do that

Speaker 3 and then that's what you're doing yeah and then that's why it's yes not yes that's why it's that yes because look i think one of the most

Speaker 1 obvious places and you know it happens a lot it happens every time but one of the most obvious i think for everyone who sees it will understand was the moment i took the stage of the Apple keynote, WWDC,

Speaker 1 where no other black person, forget black woman, no other black person had presented the software before. I mean, Steve Jobs stage, right?

Speaker 1 You've got all of the known people on the stage, Eddie Q and Craig Federici and Phil Schiller. They're the ones who present, right?

Speaker 1 And leading up to that moment, First of all, there was a lot of doubt that I should even do it, right? Because look, I'm a marketer. I'm not an engineer.

Speaker 1 I'm a black woman, although nobody wants to say that out loud.

Speaker 3 You know, they're like, she's a marketer, not an engineer.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm like, those are the cohorts. And that whole statement about, like, oh, well, I don't know if they'll believe you.
Yeah, I know why. You know?

Speaker 1 But Abby, your point about the allure

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 1 just aligning to make things easier. That was my choice that day too.
Where it's like, look, everybody showed up in their jeans and button-down shirt.

Speaker 1 Like a literal visual. I walked into the green room in the back of the stage and there were, it was just a rack

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 1 jeans

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 blue button-down shirts and

Speaker 1 pink button-down shirts and khaki colored things.

Speaker 1 And I just looked at it and I was standing there in my curly afro, my very tight pink dress, my Louis Buitton silettos with a little poof on the back, too.

Speaker 1 How dare me, right? A little poof on the back, just to add insult to injury.

Speaker 1 And I was standing back there, and it was like, you know, Tim Cook went first to start the presentation. And then

Speaker 1 Eddie went, and Eddie is supposed to introduce me. And I'm standing back there, and I was just like, whoo, one of these things is not like the other, you know, waiting for my turn.

Speaker 1 And when I went on that stage,

Speaker 1 I know it would have been easier for me too, by the way, if I had just put on the jeans and the button down.

Speaker 1 If I had just tried to look like everybody else, maybe that would be one less barrier, you know, than

Speaker 1 even how I appear to be.

Speaker 1 Not even, I hadn't even opened my mouth yet. I had not even presented one idea yet.
Just how I look.

Speaker 1 And so for all of us us

Speaker 1 who are showing up in these spaces,

Speaker 1 of course, you just want to align.

Speaker 1 In that little moment of like just walking in the door, knowing everybody's going to turn and look at you.

Speaker 1 If you didn't have that hair, if you didn't have on that crazy outfit, if you weren't wearing those dang on earrings, if your nails weren't painted a certain way,

Speaker 1 If you weren't wearing those shoes, clickety clack, clack, clack. Here I come down the hallway.
You know I'm coming because you heard my heels clicking.

Speaker 1 It would be so much easier. But I

Speaker 1 refuse

Speaker 1 to do that

Speaker 1 because I do know all the people who are walking behind me. I am very aware of that.
And it still hurts. Both of those things can be true.
So, no, I am not like some, you know, like

Speaker 1 humble martyr out here.

Speaker 1 I want my roses. Yes.
I want them now.

Speaker 1 I can, yes, both can be true that I want it for them too, but I want mine.

Speaker 1 You know, and that's why I choose. That's why when I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, you know what?

Speaker 1 This ain't right. Let me just, where's my purse at? Let me just pack my things and get up the hell out of here.
Because I recognize that unless I do that, I will be that hidden figure.

Speaker 1 Nobody will know my name.

Speaker 1 I love you so much.

Speaker 3 And it's amazing when you think about,

Speaker 3 I don't know how to put this into words, you will, but like how

Speaker 1 the corporate world and the whole world

Speaker 3 uses words

Speaker 3 that cover the racism and the misogyny, uses words like professionalism.

Speaker 3 Yes. When what it really means is whiteness.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 well, we just want you to wear this. We just want you to talk like this.
We just want you to, because it's professional. Yes.
Without dissecting what they're actually saying by professional.

Speaker 1 White maleness, not just white. Right.

Speaker 1 That's right. That's right.
Or when we are creating strategies, right, or telling stories, especially as a marketer, right? That's my whole job is to create narratives about things.

Speaker 1 And you have to make it for

Speaker 1 the mass market,

Speaker 1 right? Meaning that my story doesn't matter in it. But how can that be? You know, very early on in my career, I contemplated that.
Like, I was like,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 how am I supposed to create this narrative for white men when I've never been one?

Speaker 1 It's very strange.

Speaker 1 And I thought, huh, I must be smarter than all the rest of y'all, because if I can do it and you can't tell my story, oh, then I'm very fucking good because I could tell my story and yours. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 That's where it started from, right? Because I was just like, oh, I see. You're trying to tell me that I'm not as good as you, but actually, I'm better because I can do both.
You could only do one.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 at some point, I was like, oh, but wait, but my story is actually really important too.

Speaker 1 So then how do I put my story into the thing?

Speaker 1 You know, how do I

Speaker 1 add

Speaker 1 my perspective onto the story to really tell it? It was so interesting how much resistance you can get when you're simply just trying to show up as yourself.

Speaker 1 It's still surprising to me. Most times I'm just like, but this can't be.
Like, you can't really ignore

Speaker 1 me, right? Like, you wouldn't be that overt about it, but no, it's true. Yes, we hide it in all the words.
They're like, no, it's got to be mass market. It's got to hit, you know, the majority.

Speaker 1 And therefore, your story is not important. Your perspective is not important.

Speaker 1 Please consider everybody else before yourself.

Speaker 1 And perhaps that's also what is striking me, because I've been conditioned that that's what I'm supposed to do, whether it's for the opening the doors for everybody else, consider everybody else but myself.

Speaker 1 Or in the narrative telling or in the strategy setting, consider everybody else with myself.

Speaker 1 And I'm just at the point where I'm just like, no, I'm only considering myself. That's right.
How about that?

Speaker 3 Yes. That's what, because that's what you're doing for the people that come behind you.
Like, yes.

Speaker 3 That's the difference between freaking diversity, because especially for a woman like you, when they hire you, they say, we want you for your perspective. We want you for your story.

Speaker 3 We want you for your whatever. Of course.
And then the second you get there, that's not what they want you for. No, no.
They want you for their sheets that says we have her.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes, yes. And to appear

Speaker 1 to be different, but not actually be different.

Speaker 1 You know? So, and that was another thing that I've realized is that,

Speaker 1 look,

Speaker 1 I actually really do show up as myself, really, you know? And so when that happens, people are just like, oh, but wait.

Speaker 1 I thought you would then just fit into our culture, you know, because our culture is our thing and you're supposed to fit into it.

Speaker 1 And what's so interesting to me is, although I love the arts, I'm really a science gal, you know? And I'm like, molecules are so interesting when you think about matter.

Speaker 1 It's like in any matter, it could be DNA, it could be water, it could be anything.

Speaker 2 You add

Speaker 1 a molecule into the matter. and the whole matter changes.

Speaker 1 Doesn't matter what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 So if you consider that that the matter is a culture, whether it's society or it's a company or it's a family, you have matter.

Speaker 1 And then the one molecule that enters that matter changes it.

Speaker 1 It is not the same.

Speaker 1 And so then you've got to contemplate, well, then if that is true, because it's true in science.

Speaker 1 If I walk into a corporate culture,

Speaker 1 I am the molecule, the matter has to change.

Speaker 1 It's not even a choice. It has to change.

Speaker 1 So then why would I consider myself insignificant?

Speaker 1 Even if I'm just one.

Speaker 1 Because if you have a glass of water and you drop some red dye into it, regardless of how small that drop is, it changes.

Speaker 1 It's no longer the same. That's right.
So that little drop can't be insignificant. So I am not insignificant.
Yes. And why would we behave that way?

Speaker 3 That's why it's not working

Speaker 2 as the air turns crisp and the holidays draw near comfort becomes the best gift of all that's why i love quints they deliver layers that last think sweaters outerwear and everyday essentials that feel luxurious look timeless and make holiday dressing and gifting effortless.

Speaker 2 Right now, I'm obsessed with their camel double-faced merino wool trench coat. It looks straight out of a designer showroom, but costs a fraction of the price.
The quality is honestly incredible.

Speaker 2 Warm, structured, and so elegant, it instantly feels like you are wearing something very much on purpose. I have so many items from Quince.

Speaker 2 layered underneath like button-ups and sweaters but the coat is my current fave and quince really does have it all 100% organic cotton cardigans for under 50 bucks, oversized blazers, classic denim, silk tops, and fleece hoodies.

Speaker 2 Down outerwear, everything to make you look chic, and most importantly, be cozy this fall and winter. Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished, and last from Quince.

Speaker 2 Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.com slash hardthings for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Now available in Canada too.

Speaker 2 That's quince.com slash hard things to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hard things.

Speaker 2 This show is brought to you by Alma. I want to start with a truth I've learned the hard way.
Taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time decision. It's a daily practice.

Speaker 2 And even when you know you want support, the hardest part is often just figuring out where to start. For me, finding the right therapist changed everything.

Speaker 2 But getting there was kind of overwhelming. Endless searches, phone calls, dead ends.
It's wild that the thing that's supposed to help you can feel so hard to reach. And that's why I love Alma.

Speaker 1 Alma.

Speaker 2 A-L-M-A takes all that chaos out of the process. It's a simple, easy-to-use platform where you can search for licensed, in-network therapists who actually feel like the right fit.

Speaker 2 You don't even need an account to browse, and you can filter by what matters most to you, their background, specialty, therapy style, and more. And here's the part that really matters.

Speaker 2 This isn't just about checking a box, it's about real connection. 97% of people who found a therapist through Alma say they felt seen and heard.
And that's the heart of good therapy.

Speaker 2 Someone who gets you, not just your symptoms. Better with people, better with with Alma.
Visit helloalma.com slash we can to schedule a free consultation today.

Speaker 2 That's hello A L M A dot com slash W E C A N.

Speaker 2 This show is sponsored by MIDI Health. For way too long, we've been told that we just have to power through the symptoms of menopause.

Speaker 2 That hot flashes, mood swings, sleepless nights, exhaustion are just part of the natural order of things.

Speaker 2 It's no wonder why 75% of women who do seek help for perimenopause and menopause end up getting no treatment at all. 75%,

Speaker 2 zero treatment. A friend of mine was talking about this just a few weeks ago.

Speaker 2 She'd been dealing with constant perimenopause symptoms and said just trying to find a doctor who actually understands menopause felt impossible.

Speaker 2 Researching specialists, figuring out insurance, waiting forever for an appointment, it's all too much. So I told her, skip all of that nonsense, go straight to MIDI.

Speaker 2 She went online and got an appointment the next day. With MIDI, you can meet one-on-one with a perimenopause trained clinician online from wherever you are.

Speaker 2 They'll actually listen to your whole story and build a plan around you. That could mean hormone therapy, lifestyle changes, preventive care, or all of the above.

Speaker 2 They even send prescriptions right to your local pharmacy. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmidi.com today to book your personalized insurance-covered virtual visit.

Speaker 2 That's joinmitti.com. MIDI, the care women deserve.

Speaker 3 At the end of the day, Bose, is it that

Speaker 3 a lot of places want to say and get credit for wanting to change but at the end of the day that's the last thing that's wanted? They don't want it.

Speaker 1 They don't want the actual change. They don't want the change.
They don't want the change because the change is also too hard. I think they really do want it because we all want things.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? We all want things.

Speaker 1 But just as in the name of

Speaker 1 this podcast, it's like it's hard.

Speaker 1 It is hard. Like everything else, I don't think anything is just black and white.
You know, I do believe that there is a desire.

Speaker 1 to change, a sincere one, you know, a sincere acknowledgement that like, oh, yes, okay, no, we are all the same here, and we do need to have perspectives that are different.

Speaker 1 But then that difference comes, and it's like, ooh, that's way too different. Can you just behave a certain way? You know, can you just not say the things?

Speaker 1 Can you not bring up that story when you're talking? You know, because we don't, that's just, that doesn't fit into the thing we're trying to say. Speaking of hard, I think it's important.

Speaker 1 What is it like

Speaker 1 communicating with with white women?

Speaker 3 An easy question.

Speaker 3 That's interesting.

Speaker 1 What's the hardest part of

Speaker 1 communicating with

Speaker 1 white women? The hardest part about communicating with white women is that they still think we're the same.

Speaker 1 Somehow that just being women means that

Speaker 1 we're the same.

Speaker 1 And that is not true.

Speaker 1 Right. And again, I think it's like intellectually we all know that, but practically, do we know that? Emotionally, do we know that? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 And so, then the idea of our united

Speaker 1 sort of energy and our united mission falls apart because we're still working inside of a society in which whiteness then is the superior.

Speaker 1 And so, it's like the superiority of the white women experience

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 completely a giant as compared to mine.

Speaker 1 And so then mine doesn't really matter. So the individual kind of struggles or other types of challenges that I have, because there's so many other connection points in whiteness to white men

Speaker 1 that I simply don't have. Right.
And so you would think, oh, well, look, I have the connection to women regardless of race.

Speaker 1 And then the white women have the connection to the men. because of race.

Speaker 1 So then they're connected here to the men and they're connected to me because of women. So they're connected on two points and I'm connected on one.
I'm dependent on that one.

Speaker 1 And so I'm already at a disadvantage. And so just understanding that as a literal practical thing, and that's just the bottom of it, right?

Speaker 1 Everything else like builds on top of it. But that, that is the most difficult.

Speaker 1 Actually getting the understanding, not just intellectually, but emotionally, that we're not on the same playing field is very, very difficult.

Speaker 3 And how would that play out? Because again, we're talking about alignment.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 white women who say, I'm aligned with you because we're women, you're black, I'm white, but I'm aligned with you. Do you see it

Speaker 3 throughout work, throughout

Speaker 3 that really the alignment goes the other way? Really, when the shit hits the fan, the alignment, white women align with the power.

Speaker 1 With the white men. That's right.
With the power.

Speaker 1 You know what's a practical one of that? Do you remember in the Obama administration?

Speaker 1 You probably read this, where they said that the women band together to help amplify each other's voices, right, in meetings and whatnot. I thought that was such a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 And it has taken root in corporate. Like you can see it, you know, where women say, okay, we're getting in there.
You have an idea. I'm going to support your idea.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like, and that's such a beautiful thing. But what is happening also is that

Speaker 1 in those situations,

Speaker 1 it is not just my voice that needs to be heard, but my perspective and my story,

Speaker 1 which sometimes needs to lead.

Speaker 1 But I find that white women have a hard time following black women.

Speaker 1 And so then it's like that whole affirmation, like rah, rah, rah, let's support each other. only is also one direction.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 there's the meetings before the meetings, but there are meetings after the meetings,

Speaker 1 Right. The meetings after the meetings are the ones that are just like, oh,

Speaker 1 I'm so glad you said that. And, you know, did you hear me when I supported you?

Speaker 1 And I'm like,

Speaker 1 so you kind of didn't.

Speaker 1 You kind of said my idea again, and then they heard you.

Speaker 1 That's kind of what happened. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, but we still got the, the, we still got the point across.
Like we, the women, we said the thing and we made the point.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, no, no, no. It was my thing.
And then you took it

Speaker 1 and made it yours. And then you came back and said, oh, it's ours.
Nobody remembers that I said it because you said it.

Speaker 1 But that's the thing. It's like, again, I'm just like, ha.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like, sometimes you just feel so frustrated because I'm just like, where is my voice?

Speaker 1 You know, it's like, yes, we are going further because the woman's story went forward, but it was taken forward by the white woman.

Speaker 1 And she didn't even acknowledge me.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 And so then it's like, okay, well,

Speaker 1 here I am again

Speaker 1 by my damn self.

Speaker 1 Having to be the kind of jerk afterwards in that post-meeting, going, actually, no, you stole my idea. That wasn't ours.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that makes you feel like a jerk, but like, you still have to do it. Yes.
And by the way, everybody thinks you're a bitch. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know how many times I've been called arrogant, selfish, a bitch? You know how many times?

Speaker 1 All the time.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, no, I'm not selfish. I'm not a bitch.
I'm just asking to be acknowledged. Yep.
I'm just asking to be seen.

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 1 It is the lowest of things I'm asking for. The lowest.

Speaker 1 I didn't even ask you to call me a genius, which I fucking am. Yes.

Speaker 1 I just asked you to see me. That's it.

Speaker 1 That's it. Low bars here, folks.
Now I'm selfish. You know what I mean? Because I said, oh, no, it wasn't your idea.
It was my idea. Oh, wait, no, this is teamwork, though.
Oh, really?

Speaker 1 Because you seem to be the only one in the team.

Speaker 3 You got to tell me. I'm just an excited tip for people to share this.
I just, I feel like people are going to feel so.

Speaker 3 Well, I was actually thinking about share the mic because when you said, is anyone hearing

Speaker 3 my story? That's what I remember you saying to me.

Speaker 3 Glennon, you said, I'll never forget. One sentence, you said, I'm just, I'm screaming into the wind.
I'm screaming into the wind. I said, how are you? or something.

Speaker 3 And you said, I'm just, I'm screaming,

Speaker 3 but I'm, no one's hearing me. I'm screaming into the wind.

Speaker 1 Glennon, can we also pause just there for a second? Because that moment also just needs to be acknowledged. Because when you and I talked,

Speaker 1 you said the thing that most white women don't say

Speaker 1 you know you were like how do I how do I help your voice

Speaker 1 and I said I was just like oh

Speaker 1 she want to know how to help amplify my voice it literally knocked me off my feet

Speaker 1 you know because I was just like man I've been in so many

Speaker 1 environments, conversations with very well-meaning people. Again, I don't think everything is black and white.
Things are very great, you know, people who mean well, they want to help and all that.

Speaker 1 But they just take your voice and then they put theirs on it and it changes. Then it's out and you can't get it back.

Speaker 1 You know, but what you said in that moment is what then led me to say, I feel like I'm just screaming into the wind. Nobody hears me.

Speaker 1 Then it was like it was it almost became an easy solution after that.

Speaker 3 It did.

Speaker 1 It was like,

Speaker 1 of course, of course, of course. You should just be heard.
How do I put you on the platform so you can be heard?

Speaker 1 But it was such a fundamentally

Speaker 1 different question

Speaker 1 from everybody else. You know, so we have to acknowledge that.
And that was not just because I answered, but because you asked

Speaker 1 the question.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 that was a question that led to so, low, so many questions. Because then you and Lovy,

Speaker 3 right? You and Lovie came back and were like, you had a whole.

Speaker 1 I mean, you guys didn't like 12 minutes. You had a whole plan.

Speaker 3 Do you remember what happened next?

Speaker 1 Oh, man. This is when I feel like this,

Speaker 1 the ancestors

Speaker 1 or the spirits who are not yet here, you're the ones who are waiting. They just, they just all came through.

Speaker 1 it really does not feel like

Speaker 1 you know our idea was just you know conduit right to let it be born because it just felt that easy it was like as soon as we just stopped you asked the question it was like a portal being opened you asked the question we went back we were like

Speaker 1 okay because i was exhausted again frankly Honestly, I was just exhausted. I was like, I don't want to talk to nobody.

Speaker 1 Y'all can keep talking. I'm going to be sitting over here resting my vocal cords.

Speaker 1 And from that moment, it was like, look, okay, let's figure out like, how do we open up our

Speaker 1 contact lists and find the white women who have these enormous platforms?

Speaker 1 And how do we get them off of there?

Speaker 1 How do we get them off?

Speaker 1 That's good. We don't need them saying our thing.
How do we get them out, though? But we still want their platform. And it was amazing to think that all we had to do was ask.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Ask the right people who are willing to say, oh, okay, let me just move over.

Speaker 1 And again, I don't want to pretend like that was an easy thing either, because look, I feel like Instagram or social media platforms to some degree feel even more sacred to people than their own homes.

Speaker 1 Isn't that interesting? You'll invite somebody. over to your house to look in your fridge much quicker than you would say, oh, go ahead and just say whatever you want on my Instagram.

Speaker 1 What if they say something crazy? What if they say something you don't like? What if they say something that's offensive?

Speaker 1 You don't know what that person's gonna say.

Speaker 1 It's like, how scary is that? The bravery on both sides of this incredible movement that we made of white women being brave and vulnerable enough to say, Look, I'm gonna get out the way.

Speaker 1 You're the keys to the house. You just do whatever you want.
And then the bravery

Speaker 1 and tirelessness

Speaker 1 of black women who were saying,

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it one more time.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna say the truth, and I'm gonna be unafraid of what people are gonna say about me because they don't know me.

Speaker 1 They might judge me,

Speaker 1 I'm gonna say it anyway.

Speaker 1 And oh, let me tell you, even for me, right? Somebody who's, I'm out, I'm talking, I'm saying the things.

Speaker 1 And all of the work that was going into creating this movement,

Speaker 1 I remember I called Lovey. It was like we had told everybody to go online at like noon or something like that.
And I swear to you, it was like 11.55.

Speaker 1 And I called Lovey in a panic. And I was like, oh, I forgot I'm supposed to do it too.
I don't remember that. I totally forgot.
I completely forgot. Like somehow that completely escaped me.

Speaker 1 And then I was just like, how am I going to do that? I'm so tired.

Speaker 1 I don't even know what I'm going to say. I didn't even started thinking about it.
And then I got afraid. I was like, what if I say the wrong thing?

Speaker 1 There's so much expectation. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 I was worried about my outfit, forgot what I was going to say.

Speaker 1 And then, after I was done saying what I wanted to say, I fell out,

Speaker 1 exhausted, completely drained. And so I I continuously think about that too.

Speaker 1 When we're, you know, I think about like the corporate settings or these business settings, where it's like, it takes so much energy

Speaker 1 to show up,

Speaker 1 to say the thing bravely,

Speaker 1 to go back outside of that space

Speaker 1 and still continue

Speaker 1 without laying down and taking a break. You got to do that day after day after day after day.
It is a miracle

Speaker 1 that we're still able to do this.

Speaker 1 Like, I look, I had to give myself a pep talk the other day. I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, girl, you are just a miracle.

Speaker 1 You are a miracle. Like, the fact that you are where you are from where you came from, withstanding what you've been through.

Speaker 1 It is a miracle that you're here smiling with that clear-ass melanin skin of yours.

Speaker 1 looking as good as you do, having a happy spirit, raising an incredible daughter, being an awesome friend. You're a miracle.
So go ahead, keep your head up.

Speaker 3 Speaking of miracles, can we talk about that daughter of yours? I think,

Speaker 3 you know, Instagram land is really big on love stories. And we, as a culture, tend to value most the romantic ones.

Speaker 1 But I

Speaker 3 swear to God,

Speaker 3 I have goosebumps already and you all don't know what I'm going to say, but I'm just saying that the love story of you and Lael

Speaker 3 has got to be one of the most beautiful ones

Speaker 3 being told right now. I mean, and for those of you who don't know, you'll have to go.
We'll put all the links to Bose's social so you can see all of her genius, but also see this love she has.

Speaker 3 Just tell us about Lael and what are, even like right now, from where you are in the world, and what are your dreams for her?

Speaker 1 Oh, Laelle, I don't even know where to start with that, you know, because Laelle is my rainbow baby.

Speaker 1 Um, I lost a daughter before Laelle, Eve, my first.

Speaker 1 Um, and I lost her the day she was born, which was just devastating and crushing. That's to put it mildly.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 three months after I lost Eve,

Speaker 1 I was like,

Speaker 1 I want to have another baby because I want to be pregnant. My doctor was like, are you out of your mind?

Speaker 1 Sit your ass down and let your body heal. And I was like, no, I'm determined.
No, no, this is what I want. This is what I want.
And the thing is that, like, maybe.

Speaker 1 Looking back now, it's again, maybe reaction to trauma, right? Feeling like, ooh,

Speaker 1 I was supposed to be a mom, and then I'm not a mom. So now I got to be a mom.
I'm going to do everything in my power to do that. As soon as I got pregnant, I was terrified.

Speaker 1 Like sheer, I'm talking about it, like sheer terror, trying to think of every way to get out. Like, okay, I made a mistake.
Again, like, I made a mistake. It's my fault.
I wasn't supposed to do this.

Speaker 1 I don't know why I did it. Okay.

Speaker 1 But I held on and held on and held on.

Speaker 1 Laelle was born two and a half months early.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I prayed every single day of my pregnancy

Speaker 1 and every single moment of my labor that she would be born. Alive,

Speaker 1 breathing,

Speaker 1 kicking,

Speaker 1 crying, anything.

Speaker 1 And I promised God, I was like, if she lived that I would name her for him.

Speaker 1 Because I said, La El, meaning belonging to God.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 she

Speaker 1 was born on May 29th, 2009, same day as my sister.

Speaker 1 Elua! Yes, Elua's birthday. And

Speaker 1 the doctor had prepped both Peter and I, that

Speaker 1 because she was premature, because they'd given me a bunch of steroids to help her lungs develop so she could breathe. That's unfortunately what happened to Eve was that she just couldn't breathe.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he says, She's probably not going to make a sound. You won't be able to hold her.

Speaker 1 We're going to deliver her and then she's going to go. So just be prepared for that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Lael came out like lightning.

Speaker 1 You know, it was like a crack in the air. She's

Speaker 1 scream.

Speaker 1 And I,

Speaker 1 I mean, I was in such awe of her in that moment. I was like,

Speaker 1 I've delivered a warrior,

Speaker 1 a real, like a real life warrior.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I refused to let them take her because I was just like, oh, no, no, no, she's she's fine.

Speaker 1 And when I tell you, I did one of those, like in the movies, you know, where you just reached down and grabbed the kid. That's what I did.
Oh, my God. I was like, no, she's mine.

Speaker 1 Ripped her right out of my womb, put her on my chest,

Speaker 1 took in the scent of her, her heartbeat,

Speaker 1 the thin, translucent skin that she had,

Speaker 1 and felt every inch of her. She was not bigger than one palm, but I felt it, all of it.

Speaker 1 And in the months that followed, you know, she was in the hospital for a while.

Speaker 1 I prayed every day.

Speaker 1 She came home right before her due date.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I thought, now I'm responsible

Speaker 1 for this warrior.

Speaker 1 You know, to show her the way,

Speaker 1 to make her understand that

Speaker 1 her life

Speaker 1 is such a gift.

Speaker 1 You know, that she was so wanted,

Speaker 1 so needed,

Speaker 1 not just for like my own salvation and belief and faith,

Speaker 1 but that she is here for such a great purpose.

Speaker 1 I mean, we all are, but I believe it for her. I know she's destined for something great.
I don't know what that is. And I won't try to force it.

Speaker 1 Whatever the path is, I will follow it

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 there is no math that says she should be here, but yet she is.

Speaker 1 And so my hope is that she's just going to walk in her destiny and fulfill it.

Speaker 3 Well, we started this interview with you saying there is no math

Speaker 3 that says that you should be here where you are in this world. There is also no math that says the little warrior should be where she is.
And yet you both.

Speaker 3 Are freaking warriors, gorgeous warriors, a beautiful love story. When the urgent life is ready, will you come back here, please, to tell us the story?

Speaker 3 I just cannot wait, Bose. I cannot wait.
Please send me that book as soon as it's ready. Okay.

Speaker 1 I will. I will.
And you already know it's like, you know, the

Speaker 1 process of

Speaker 1 writing is so, so difficult.

Speaker 1 But this, this was,

Speaker 1 it's been a long time coming, you know?

Speaker 1 and I'm I was ready the moment I sat down. I was ready.
I wasn't ready a moment before that But as soon as I sat down it was like

Speaker 1 everything just started

Speaker 1 Coming

Speaker 1 and so I'm telling all of it, you know all of the pain all of the triumph all of the all the things

Speaker 1 Bose

Speaker 1 nobody

Speaker 1 will ever forget your name.

Speaker 1 That is for dead. You are unforgettable.
Thank you for being with us us and sharing your story. And please come back.

Speaker 3 And the next right thing for all of you, Pod Squatters, is just to go back and listen again. Okay.

Speaker 3 And then pretend when Bose is giving her pep talks to herself, that it's for you. No.
Because you are also a miracle. That's right.
All right. Bose, go do all of your million important hard things.

Speaker 3 We love you forever. We will always be in your corner.

Speaker 1 And Lael's.

Speaker 3 We will talk soon. Thank you for this.
And see the rest of you.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 Carry on, Warriors. Bye.

Speaker 3 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Speaker 3 Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

Speaker 3 To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

Speaker 1 This is the most important thing for the pod.

Speaker 3 While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.

Speaker 3 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 3 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.