Good Grief — Sandy Beal E8

33m

The Beal family is faced with a daunting task that threatens to divide them. Sandy’s final words are cast in a new light. 

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Before we begin, please note: this series includes talk of suicide and sexual violence.

Please take care while listening.

It was just a strange turn of how it all unfolded.

I'm fucking curious about this.

But you know another thing.

I'm just a little pissed right now, but I know other people feel different, so I'm just putting my feelings out there.

This is a craziness that we were told.

She

could do it.

It just didn't add up.

A lot of things just didn't add up.

So, some of the stuff I'm about to tell you, I mean, if you're pissed now, you're going to get even more pissed off.

Because I never knew anything like that.

They never said anything.

What's this like for you to hear all of this?

Well, it's not what I want to hear, but if it, you know, it is what it is.

Yeah.

No, I'm not buying the bullshit.

That's why I was cautious about whatever they said.

Yeah, I need a stiff shot.

From iHeart Radio, I'm Melissa Geltson, and this is What Happened to Sandy Beale, an iHeart original podcast.

Chapter 8: Good Grief.

The first time I went to Maine to meet with the Beale family, it was summer and the drive from the airport was lush and green.

It was on this trip when Ronnie, Sandy's youngest brother, asked me what I hoped to achieve with the podcast.

When Sandy's mother, Joanne, gave me the coat her daughter was wearing on the night of her death.

And when I first got a real sense of Sandy as a person.

The Sandy the family described to me, she was fearless.

Five months later, I flew back to Maine with my producer to see the Beals in person again.

It was late fall and the trees were a mix of orange and brown and green.

I was returning under different circumstances than my first trip.

This visit had a particular objective, to observe and record an emergency family meeting that Kim had called.

Kim wanted to share with the Beals what she'd come to believe was true, that Sandy had died by suicide.

The meeting was set to take place at Sandy's brother Stephen's home.

To set the scene, imagine a tidy ranch-style house, a kitchen teeming with food, two small dogs running around underfoot.

I arrived before the rest of the family and made small talk with Stephen and his wife.

Soon, Michael and his wife showed up with Joanne, who was wearing suede cowboy boots bedazzled with with rhinestones.

We hugged, talked about booster shots and COVID variants, and we waited together for Kim.

And good until I pulled in and I was like, oh, this is real.

You can hear the nervousness in Kim's voice.

Leading up to this meeting, she was really worried about how the Beals would respond to what she had to tell them.

She didn't know if they'd see things her way or if they'd reject her position and judge her for siding with the police.

For decades, there'd been a collective story that they all agreed on around Sandy's death.

That whatever happened to Sandy, she hadn't died by suicide.

Kim had previously been part of the group.

In fact, the leader of the group, the one pushing to reopen Sandy's case, convinced that there was something there.

Now, she worried that she'd blown Sandy's death up into something it wasn't and wasted their time, added extra pain to their suffering.

She knew the Bills loved her and were appreciative of all her work, but there was a part of her that was scared she would need to beg for their forgiveness.

Do you have tea by chance, T?

Let T?

I have some if you don't.

Within a few minutes of Kim's arrival, the group migrated into the living room and took seats around a boom mic that I'd brought.

It was a strange dichotomy, the most intimate of conversations.

undertaken with the knowledge that everything was being recorded.

Kim sat in a large pillowy recliner that seemed to swallow her frame.

Her feet didn't quite reach the floor and she kept readjusting her position trying to get comfortable.

I think that the answers that I'm going to give you today will naturally make that a closing place anyway.

There are still some answers that need to happen,

but I think as far as the story is concerned, it's shifted.

And so I'm hoping that we get more information after this, but we may not.

So So I just want to kind of share with you what we've uncovered in the past few months since we saw you in June anyway.

Armed with her notes, Kim began recounting her conversation with Bernie.

She told them how she went in fighting with a head of STEAM, arguing and asking critical questions.

She told the family how they discussed Sandy's efforts to become a police officer.

and the ride-alongs that she did, likely as part of an official explorer program.

And so I'm just listening and I said, well, what about the Explorers program?

I'm like, so explain that.

He said, it was a way that we encouraged people in high school to come become cops.

And they're having a hard time recruiting new police officers.

So they were going to the high schools, hence the ride-along program and the explorers.

And I'm like, so you have a girl that wants to be a cop.

And she's doing everything you guys ask her to do.

She told them how Bernie acknowledged that there was likely serious sexual misconduct taking place and how she was disarmed by his compassion and his frankness.

He said, if I was on the watch, they would have all been terminated because I wouldn't have put up with any of that.

And I'm like, you know, if you see all these questions that we have, everything we've already talked about, no answers have been given, all these different things that are discrepancies.

And you can see from our point of view that we have questions.

He's like, I absolutely see from your point of view.

All of this, everything you're saying makes sense.

I watched Kim as she attempted to replicate her conversation with Bernie, trying to create the same conditions that had led to her own awakening.

She spoke calmly and carefully, referring often to her notes, before she got to the piece of evidence that had clicked everything into place for her.

To help them visualize the scene, she printed from the internet a picture of an old Ford Pinto just like the one Sandy used to drive.

So if you look at this,

this this is the steering wheel.

So

it matches up.

If you were to brace it there, here you can pass that.

If you were to brace it, it just started feeling like making sense to me that

she did use that.

That's the only possible way that she could have pulled that trigger is if it was had support of something.

But when he said that the gunpowder was on the steering wheel and it was spraying back, then I'm like, he goes, he said, Kim,

we can't deny the trajectory of this.

When he said

there's gunpowder on the steering wheel, that was kind of like, that's kind of irrefutable.

So it was almost like an aha moment, like a wake-up call of, oh my God, that could possibly really be true.

At this, Kim pivoted away from the forensic evidence and started speaking from her gut.

She now had a new understanding of Sandy and her last months, and she shared this with the Beals.

How she believed Sandy had been used and abused by men in power, and how this had broken her.

I think someone was there before.

I think she was alone then.

And this is just my knowing her and thinking through the situation.

It's dark.

It's 27 degrees outside.

She just had sex with somebody.

She's alone.

She's trying to get out.

And I think the trying to get out was possibly the straw that broke the camel's back.

And she's just said, fuck it.

Joanne had been listening intently.

Now she interrupted.

I think you're right.

I think the last hurrah was she was trying to get out.

Joanne's words, they rushed out of her as though they had been waiting to be released.

I think she just said, I can't, I've had enough of that.

She had already been rejected.

She had already had the abortion.

And I think the whole thing just blew up.

And maybe I'm wrong.

And

I've kept that to myself for a long time.

I did not expect to hear Joanne agree with Kim and acknowledge so openly that she believed Sandy had died by suicide.

And I got the sense that Kim had given her permission to say the hard part out loud, and that it came as a tremendous relief.

The room was quiet.

Everyone seemed to be reflecting on the Sandy that they knew, each of them conjuring their own memory of Sandy and trying to square Kim's new story with their own.

And then Stephen broke the silence.

Well, I'm going to be the man out.

I dispute what the guy says.

I flat-ass dispute it.

I don't think she put the goddamn gun on the steering wheel.

And yes, they can replicate it.

They don't want to replicate it.

They can put a fucking man on the goddamn moon.

They can replicate that.

I know Sandy.

Sandy did not shoot herself.

I'm going to go to my friggin' grave saying that, you know, and it's compelling.

I'll give you that.

You know, the guy's trying, and I get that he's trying to be empathetic with our situation.

But, you know, sorry, he's selling.

I ain't buying

no

again sorry i ain't buying it

stephen left the room upset but about five minutes later he came back and rejoined his family

Trust me, folks, I'm not trying to, you know,

it's nothing about anybody.

I take issue with what it is they're trying to say.

And, you know, and I understand if, you know,

other people don't share my stance.

I get it.

You know, this is something that I, you're right there.

I got to grapple with on my own.

But right now,

I don't see it yet.

You know, maybe something, it might take something, a little something else to make me see the light.

You know, maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.

Don't know.

Could be.

But right right now,

no.

You're not going to convince me that she did it.

As the family continued to talk, the sun streaming in the windows and filling the room with light, it felt as though I was seeing them shift and adjust their beliefs in real time, torn between two versions of an event that had defined their lives.

Even Joanne, who had sounded so sure at first, vacillated, returning back again to the police, Doug, and all the sketchy behavior she witnessed in the aftermath of Sandy's death.

Sometimes she seemed to travel this distance between suicide and murder in the same breath.

Stephen was the most vocal about his views, while his brothers, Michael and Ronnie, quietly contemplated the situation without giving much away.

They listened, nodded, winced at times, and then Ronnie spoke up in his calm and reserved way.

Well, you know, for 44 years and nine months,

we've tried play every scenario.

Did she, did she not?

She did, why,

she didn't,

who's responsible,

we don't know.

And I guess we're never gonna know.

Even if somebody come forward today,

yeah, I did it.

No one's going to jail, especially none of them guys.

No.

Yeah, Bob Strafe.

So,

in my mind,

I think we've come to the end of the road.

Win to lose or draw.

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This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal.

Are there there two sides to every story?

Academy Award nominee Robin Wright stars in the girlfriend on Prime, a psychological thriller that will make you question everything you think you know.

Laura has the dream job, the perfect husband, and a son she'd die for.

But when her beloved Daniel brings home his new girlfriend Cherry, played by Olivia Cook, something feels off.

Is Cherry the sweet, innocent girl she appears to be?

Or is there something more manipulative beneath the surface?

And how far will a mother go to protect her son?

Also starring Lori Davidson, The Girlfriend is a twisted game of cat and mouse where nothing is what it seems and everyone has something to hide.

Don't miss the girlfriend, streaming now exclusively on Prime.

Sometimes the truth is just a matter of perspective.

I couldn't even believe it was real.

Join me, Tatiana Siegel, executive editor of film and media at Variety, for a four-part tale of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.

Just like my parents talk about they knew where they were when John F.

Kennedy was killed.

Pretty much everyone I know knows exactly where they were when River died.

Featuring new interviews with Samantha Mathis, Dr.

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Listen to Variety Confidential on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How about a powered-up paycheck and an amped-up career?

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Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in in your neck, severe stomach pain, or vision changes.

Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems.

Taking Manjaro with a sulfinyl norrhea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Tell your doctor if you're nursing pregnant plan to be or taking birth control pills and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems.

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I watched the Beals leave that meeting with Kim with a demanding task ahead.

They could choose to believe what Kim now believed, that Sandy died by suicide, or they could continue with the story they'd believed for decades.

And I could understand why they'd take the latter route.

Both stories were compelling.

Both were possible.

And the journey to replace a long-held belief with something new and contradictory is not an easy one.

I think that we face this kind of crossroads many times in life.

And we, you know, again, we're given the choice between the safety of holding on to what we know

or the ambiguity of releasing what we thought we knew and reaching for something a little more adequate, recognizing that that

process is not a comfortable one.

Robert Niemeyer is a professor of psychology at the University of Memphis and an authority on bereavement and grief.

Well, of course, this is a larger question that goes beyond grief and bereavement.

We can hold on to our own views, sometimes almost in a kind of hostile stance of refusing to accept the alternative story.

And that's the path of defensiveness and sameness and anger and resistance.

But the other is the path of grieving,

maybe coming to terms with the reality of tragedy in life and the impermanence of love and the ambiguity of our position as human beings.

Kim let go of what she'd believed, and it was really painful.

She told me that she felt as though she was grieving Sandy's death all over again.

For the family, I understood the cost of changing their minds.

To accept that Sandy had died by suicide required them to redefine their understanding of her as a person and by extension, their relationship to her.

It often, especially in the case of traumatic loss, shakes up our assumptive world, as we call it, that whole world of assumptions about how life is or should be.

Our sense of justice, our sense of control, our sense of the reality we thought we were living, or the reality of a loved one we thought we knew, can be deeply unsettling as we have to essentially revise our life narrative, the story of who we are and whose we are

in the context of often a significant

and soul-shattering loss.

The dramatic thing for them, of course, is that they have experienced the shattering of their narrative, their story, not once, but twice, 44 years apart.

Robert explained to me that grieving a suicide often brings up complicated feelings for families such as guilt and anger the failure to protect or save that person

particularly if we are a parent particularly if we are an older sibling where we feel some duty of care toward this vulnerable person and somehow we miss the signals we

we didn't have the

deep understanding of what was happening for them at the time that might have led us to make a difference.

All of that is denied us.

And so we're left with a struggle to realign the relationship with them and to figure out how they fit into our lives now.

What I hope it brings, though, is compassion.

of her as the young woman she was attempting to move into a life that had its own audacious and probably chaotic and likely complicated dimensions.

Ironically, they have ended up having to sort out those complications for her in a proxy way as they attempt to make sense of her life, maybe at a time that she herself could not.

Making sense of Sandy and the complications she was struggling with is what I've tried to do with this podcast.

And the complications in Sandy's life, they had something in common.

They all revolved around law enforcement.

And so, in a way, did her death, which I think is telling.

I found myself returning to a single page in Sandy's full police file.

where Detective Shyselski cataloged the evidence in Sandy's car and specifically the items sitting on her dashboard.

The items on her dash, they all had to do with cops.

There was the duty rig for carrying police equipment, a loan business card from a PG County cop, clippings about police officers, presumably from a local newspaper, and a card showing the shift schedule.

I thought it was strange that Sandy would store so many items, including a belt, on her small dashboard.

Wouldn't they fall down when she drove?

As I read and reread this list picturing the scene, I suddenly imagined Sandy placing the items there ceremoniously, surrounding herself with police paraphernalia to make a statement.

I had long been suspicious of the location of Sandy's death because of who hung out there, but I could now see how the pole yard might have been a symbolic choice by Sandy.

Doug, the state trooper, The instructors in the Explorer program, and the cops who call Shyzelski, I think a good many of them hurt Sandy.

They took advantage of her youthful passion, her blind ambition, and her desire for acceptance.

As she wrote in her letter to Doug, I never want another man to ever want me.

I just want to leave and forget the pain.

Sandy was looking for love and she found cruelty.

The police, They didn't have to murder Sandy to be complicit in her death.

And I think they deserve some of the blame for the loss of a teenage girl.

I think there are people who know exactly what happened to Sandy.

They just don't want to talk to me.

And back then, they didn't want to talk to the Beals either.

To me, this is the tragic heart of the story.

For all the questions the Beals had, there were people with answers.

If any of the police officers who knew Sandy had been brave enough to talk to the Beals,

if Prince George's County Police had launched a misconduct probe in the wake of Sandy's death and been transparent with her family?

And if anyone had listened to the Beals, really listened to what they had to say, then maybe 45 years of doubt and uncertainty might have been avoided.

Maybe Sandy, she could have been put to rest.

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This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal.

Are there two sides to every story?

Academy Award nominee Robin Wright stars in the girlfriend on Prime, a psychological thriller that will make you question everything you think you know.

Laura has the dream job, the perfect husband, and a son she'd die for.

But when her beloved Daniel brings home his new girlfriend Cherry, played by Olivia Cook, something feels off.

Is Cherry the sweet, innocent girl she appears to be?

Or is there something more manipulative beneath the surface?

And how far will a mother go to protect her son?

Also starring Lori Davidson, The Girlfriend is a twisted game of cat and mouse where nothing is what it seems and everyone has something to hide.

Don't miss the girlfriend, streaming now exclusively on Prime.

Sometimes the truth is just a matter of perspective.

I couldn't even believe it was real.

Join me, Tatiana Siegel, executive editor of film and media at Variety, for a four-part tale of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.

Just like my parents talk about they knew where they were when John F.

Kennedy was killed.

Pretty much everyone I know knows exactly where they were when River died.

Featuring new interviews with Samantha Mathis, Dr.

Drew Pinski, Corey Feldman, and more.

Listen to Variety Confidential on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Top reasons advanced manufacturing pros want to move to Ohio.

So many advancement opportunities for technicians, machinists, managers, operators, and more.

How about a powered-up paycheck and an amped-up career?

Plus, the energy of big-time sports.

And after work, plenty of ways to unplug.

The career you want and a life you'll love.

Have it all in the heart of it all.

Build your future at callohiohome.com.

Lily is a proud partner of the iHeartRadio Music Festival for Lily's duets for type 2 diabetes campaign that celebrates patient stories of support.

Share your story at mountjaro.com/slash duets.

Mountjaro terzepatide is an injectable prescription medicine that is used along with diet and exercise to improve blood sugar, glucose, in adults with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Mount Jaro is not for use in children.

Don't take Mount Jaro if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or vision changes.

Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems.

Taking Manjaro with a sulfinyl norrhea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Tell your doctor if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems.

Once-weekly Manjaro is available by prescription only in 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, and 15 milligram per 0.5 milliliter injection.

Call 1-800-LILLIERX-800-545-5979 or visit mountjaro.lilly.com for the Mountjaro Indication and Safety Summary with warnings.

Talk to your doctor for more information about Mountjaro.

Mountjaro and its delivery device base are registered trademarks owned or licensed by Eli Lilly and Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates.

In the weeks and months after we all gathered in Maine, I reached out to the Beals periodically to check in on how they were doing.

I was curious how they had processed the new information, but I was also hyper-aware that their capacity for and interest in discussing Sandy's case with me was coming to a close.

My investigation had found answers, but not the answers that they had necessarily wanted.

I sensed they were somewhat let down, although they never missed an opportunity to express gratitude for my work.

Here's what Stephen had to say when I called him one afternoon.

I know myself, I've always felt all along that we're never going to really get to the bottom of it.

And it was nice to try to get to where we got now, which was which is good but

uh you know just it it's for me uh i'm always gonna have uh questions and it's never gonna be really quite resolved uh the way to my satisfaction kim's epiphany her meeting with bernie it hadn't really changed anything for him I just had those gut feelings when you know, when you just kind of know something, you know what I mean?

I'm looking at it through a jaded eyes.

I'm so jaded.

You know, I need to look at it through a different lens.

Does that make any sense?

When I reached Michael, the oldest of the Beale brothers, he agreed with Stephen and told me he still has significant questions about the gun.

So

you still believe that probably someone else was involved?

Sure.

I certainly do.

The police, they're pretty good.

You know,

they can dig shit up and

they can bury stuff.

So, I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that's buried, and no one's going to know about it.

Ronnie, the youngest of the Beals,

he just wanted to put the whole thing behind him.

He's getting married soon, starting a new chapter of his life.

He doesn't want to go there anymore.

Like he said in the meeting, he considers it the end of the road.

came to understand through my conversations with the brothers that it was very possible the family would be living with these conflicting stories of Sandy's death and therefore her life forever.

And maybe that was all right.

What we've seen over and over, now really 25 years of research, the majority of people are resilient to almost anything.

George Bonanno is a psychologist at Columbia University.

His research focuses on how human beings cope with bereavement, loss, and other potentially traumatic events.

You know, everybody's moved on and lived their lives, you know, and it's now a person four decades in the past who they loved or whoever they had complex relationships with, and now they have a kind of a

very complicated story about that person.

But, you know, there's probably enough distance that they can probably say, okay,

well, you know, we'll maybe hold both of these, but you know, I don't think it would be as crucial or as critical

to their well-being to have a clear picture anymore.

But in a sense, the need to have them reconciled is maybe long past.

George's research has found that most people possess a natural resilience to trauma and loss.

The person is able to,

you know, concentrate, laugh, do what they need to do.

take care of people they love and be cared for by people they love and that love them, you know, be close, have intimate interactions, and they, you know, they're able to experience joy and they're able to experience pain and they're able to

think about other things

and they simply continue on with their life.

They don't forget the person, they just

continue living the life in the present.

And if you think about it,

human beings have been around for a long time and we've thrived all over the planet.

And we've always been able to keep moving on and keep going.

That's just human nature.

Kim has moved houses since she visited the Beals in Maine, resettling in a country home halfway between Houston and Austin.

Being in the country has helped, she said.

The blue bonnets and wildflowers are out.

The trees outside her house are over 300 years old.

She keeps a photo of Sandy on her desk, but she's put her files about the case out of sight in a closet, still close enough to access if she needs them, but not lining the walls of her bedroom like they used to.

Sandy's case, it's been a source of consistency in her life for decades, something to focus her boundless energy on, give her purpose.

And now she considers it over.

She's let go for the most part.

She has answers, though she says she still needs to find closure.

She wants to go back to the poll yard and have a ceremony there to say goodbye.

Before the family meeting, one of Kim's biggest concerns was disappointing Joanne.

She feared that spending all those years investigating the case had prolonged Joanne's pain and stood in the way of healing.

It's been a long time, hasn't it?

Yeah.

Fighting this.

It's a long time fighting it, yeah.

So I'm most concerned, mostly about you.

I've had a few weeks to process it and I'm still struggling with it.

So

just grieving, you know.

I know what you mean.

I was just telling,

I think it was Melissa, that this might be the last sit-in that I might sit in.

It depends on how I feel at the time.

You know, because it drums everything back up.

It's hard.

And it's hot.

And

that's the way it is.

But the journey, it had bonded the two women.

I got the sense that Joanne was profoundly touched by the years that Kim had spent in service to Sandy.

She was trying to hold people accountable, and she had kept Sandy's memory alive.

We've come a long way with this.

You have

dug and dug and dug and dug.

There's been many things that I have thought of and thought of and thought of.

And just like we all have questions.

But we'll probably never get all the answers.

We've had a lot.

We've learned a lot.

I understand why the Beale still have questions, because I do too.

There's still so much unknown about the network of police officers whose phone numbers Sandy wrote down in her address books.

Police officers who took her on ride-alongs and drove drove her home at night after hanging out at the FOP lodge.

But I'm pretty sure I know how she felt when she died, because she wrote about it.

I've reread her note to Doug many times, and what's clear is how alone, used, and powerless she felt.

It's a stark reversal from where she was when she began policing, described by her friends and family as strong, ambitious, and secure.

The main criticism I've heard about my podcast is that it's anti-cop,

that if a teen girl was victimized in an Explorer program, that was in the 1970s and doesn't reflect on what's happening now.

But I want to tell you about another Sandy.

Sandra Birchmore died by suicide during the pandemic while pregnant, allegedly with the child of a married, older cop who was an instructor in the Explorer program she had attended.

A misconduct probe launched in the wake of her death has resulted in the resignation of one officer, with two others placed on paid leave.

I think there are many, many more Sandys out there.

Girls and women who have been sexualized, mistreated, and eaten up by a police culture where masculinity reigns.

Sandy wasn't an anomaly.

Joanne, she still has questions.

She still hopes that Sandy Sheridan will come forward.

She still believes that Doug was in the poll yard the night Sandy died.

She even had a dream about him recently where she confronted him outside a courthouse and gave him a piece of her mind.

But ultimately, she's come to accept the possibility that Sandy died by suicide.

She thinks that Sandy was consumed by hurt and felt as though she had no one to turn to.

And she blames the police for putting her daughter in this position.

Thinking back to when Sandy died, the worst part was the not knowing, she said, having only the fragments of Sandy's story and not being able to put them together in a way that made any sense.

Today, she's learned how to live with the not knowing.

The lingering ambiguity, the unanswered questions, she's found a way to put all that to the side, diffuse it of its power.

Maybe she wasn't supposed to know everything, she said.

It's just how it is.

And she's at peace.

So anyway,

it was a hard time.

And

I don't know.

We've been through

a lot in this family.

I say the good Lord was good to me to give me a life to live this long.

I weighed two pounds and three ounces at birth.

They told my mother and father I wouldn't live 24 hours.

And here I am 82.

Joanne hopes she'll see Sandy in heaven.

But for now, she's put the whole thing in a good place.

She needed to.

She's a fighter, always has been.

But it was time for her to stop.

Well, honey, I've got to let you go.

Okay.

What Happened to Sandy Beale is hosted by me, Melissa Jeltson.

It's written and produced by me and Katrina Norvell.

The podcast is edited by Abu Safar.

Sound design by Erin Kaufman.

Jason English is our executive producer.

Research and production assistants by Marissa Brown.

Special thanks to Duncan Radell, Bethan Makaluso, Nikki E.

Tor, and Pete Monica.

To find out more about my investigation, follow me on Twitter at Quasimado.

That's Q-U-A-S-I-M-A-D-O.

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