James L. Brooks

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You're looking at somebody who brought coffee to Edward R. Morrow.
Yeah. Did you really, though?

Yeah.

Welcome back to Everybody Knows Your Name. I'm very excited about today.
On the one hand, we have writer, director, and producer James L. Brooks.

Think Mary Tyler Moore, The Simpsons, as good as it gets, terms of endearment. And on the other hand, we have Woody.
My sometimes brother Woody Harrelson is here today.

He's in Paris, I believe, at the moment, making a film, so he's going to zoom in. Woody and Jim work together on a new movie called Ella McKay, which comes out December 12th.

And we'll get into that much, much more.

So here they are, Jim Brooks and my sweet friend, Woody Harrelson.

Oh my God.

What the fuck? This is crazy. I don't believe this is happening.
Oh, Woody.

Are you guys together in LA?

Yes, we are. Yes, we are.
Physically together. So fucking jealous, man.
So jealous.

How's it going?

Well, we're just starting. If you mean, how's this going? But

yeah,

life's good. Life's good.

It's strange to be having you, Jim, right in front of me and looking over your shoulder at you, Woody. But I'm so happy to see you, my friend.
It's been a while, and I adore you and love you.

I love you too, brother. I miss you.
Are you in Austin? Hey, I feel I'm getting in the way. You know what I'm saying?

Give us a second, Jim. No, but I'm in Paris.
I mean, I'm hearing this stuff.

And Jim was

high Ted.

Oh, man.

So, Jim, the other day I was hanging with these two actors who I've worked with many times. And like, you know, I hadn't really, I realized like,

you know, you sometimes go for years and years and you don't ask like fundamental questions like about someone's parents, you know, or like deeper questions.

You're in the moment when you're hanging out with them and experiencing, like when you're doing a show or whatever, but you don't find out these really important details.

And so I was thinking to myself, because they give us research and I'm thinking, what do I need research with Jim Brooks? You know, I've known this guy forever. So many things I fucking didn't.

I got excuses for all of them.

Anyway, I was, because, you know, I know, I know, I mean, I think I knew this, but like, you were born in Brooklyn, but you grew up in New Jersey, right? Yes, sir. Am I jumping into this movie?

No, you're doing fine, but did you think I was the lead question? By the way, what a great question.

No kidding, man, because it's basic. It's a basic question.
Gives you a foundation, yeah.

Born in Brooklyn, brought up in New Jersey.

I'm going to interrupt. We should.
For just a second. I just want you to tell me how you and Woody got together to work on this movie that you're working on right now, Ella McKay, because that's

how you okay. You're right.
Let's not go into the heavy stuff. What about Brooklyn and New Jersey? We're going to go back to that.
I swear to God.

By the way, this is

I was just going to, that's a spill.

This is me and Daddy's first fight. But this is the reason why Woody and Jim get to be together in the same room.

And I'm not in the same room, but on the same podcast, because you guys just finished working together, right? And you're still just finishing this movie.

right so just tell me how you cast him instead of me no i don't mean that but how did you guys get together and tell me just a little bit about i called you i didn't woody didn't i call you early really early in the game

yeah it was

that was cool yeah i didn't expect that uh

you know we've known each other teddy for as long as i've known you and anyway it was a great surprise to get the chance to do this part because you know i'd been reading the script for years,

you know, hoping Jim eventually would finish it,

which took, you know, like 15 years.

And

I love it. I love it.
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm so excited to see it, Jim.

I saw he can't really talk about it because, as you were just saying to me, you're still

in the editing, not so much in the editing room, but you're still

finishing it up. You're still in that.

There's still stuff. Yeah, there's still a lot of stuff.
Yeah. Yeah.
Where did you go? And how are you feeling?

Good.

You know,

I think I respect it. Oh, wait, my shit sell a little harder than that.

I'm pretty sure I respect the movie.

Oh, man.

You really gear up for your interviews and just like, you know, talk about a salesman.

What was it like? I'm in the audience. I'm dying to see this movie now.
I respect it. I've seen the trailer and I more than respect it.
I can't wait to see it.

It made me both laugh and want to be around all the actors and characters I just watched on it. Great.

The man on the screen is insanely good in it. Oh, good.
I mean,

yeah. Yeah.

You can go now, Woody.

You got your compliment. Yeah.

So, what was it like being directed by? Are you a

just keep doing it again and again? Or do you give notes? Or do you, how do you direct Woody Harrelson? I don't know. I mean,

we talk. I mean,

it seems like just a very natural

pro. I mean, it's, it's, I just,

no, you know what? You're intensely real. So we're waiting for this.
Please don't change. Let me make a comeback here.

No, seriously, I want to know. Keep going.

You know, I think starting the day with a warm greeting, you know,

I think it helps them a little bit. You know, you can be down, you can take little dips.
So you

sort of build them up a little.

Do you rehearse your films always? Did you get to rehearse this? We did. Yeah.
You know, I just watched every iteration of the film as you were writing it.

And I just felt it just kept getting better and better and better. And then, you know, I like insisted you got to do a reading read-through you're going to learn oh and then you

want to talk about the read-through you want to talk about the grudge you want to you want to get into yeah i do yeah i know it wasn't the happiest but this is the you know

more years than i'll ever admit to working on the script um and uh and and put together you know with my with my buddy woody and he didn't read it beforehand now you're you're i'm sorry you're a professional actor I am.

Yeah, and you're. I read it beforehand.
I just didn't do a good job with it.

Did you read it beforehand? Yes, of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
So. Yeah, I was playing

the security guy, but I did think I was particularly bad

at reading.

And I did feel the malice in your eyes as I came up.

It's like, what's the kid with the fixed world series going up to,

what's that story? You know, say it ain't so, Joe. Yeah, yeah.

When Joe threw the game when the best ball player,

say it ain't so, Joe. Woody is importantly good in the movie and a totally convincing part and a weird one for me because in some ways

based on my own errant father. And

oh, this always sounds so weird when you talk in this, in this form for how how somebody just you know uh knocked it out of the park and created a character and it was just palpable and and for me when it's personal it was yeah yeah

thank you jim yeah thank you yeah

So is this a good opportunity to ask you about your father?

Yes, I'll give you both permission to go backwards now.

Yeah, I want to know about your father because there's a very key important thing in your development as a human.

Even though, anyway, I want to tell me about your relationship with him.

He was errant in every way.

There were times that my mother worked all the time. My mother worked, you know, three nights a week, six days a week.
And

he was a carousing alcoholic.

The drinking is not in the film, but

the cereal cheating

is part of it. And

my older sister, who helped raise me,

was vulnerable to him. And then I got my first decent job and

I asked my father to come to lunch because he was really messing my sister up. How old were you at this point?

Shit, I don't know. Roughly.
Teenager or older? 20s, 20s, 24, 5, 5, 6, 7.

Yeah, this is A.N.

I said, I'll pay you money to leave

my sister alone. And, you know, because

he would mess with her. And

we went to lunch to seal the deal.

And

it was the last time I saw him.

And he got drunk at the lunch

and he walked, and there was a little stairs that he walked up. And

I had

gotten a car for him to pick him up in New Jersey, take him to New York, we have lunch. And the car was there.
And he turned around drunk and looked at me.

And after this lifetime of everything, and sang,

if I had my life to live over, I'd live it the same way again.

And left. Yeah.

Kind of a fuck you. Fuck you.
I'm who I am and I'm not going to change.

Wow.

It was like a defiance and a defense against what you considered like to be an errant father.

Right. Like, I mean, that it was in that meal that you kind of let him know how you felt.

It's the absolute opposite of remorse. Yeah.

It's, yeah, yeah. It's the finger.
Yeah. Did he take your money or did that never happen? No, no, he doesn't.

He was

kept us out of the bargain. That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah.

Wow. Yeah.

And was your mother still alive? I know she passed away when you were like 22 or something. Yeah, yeah, no, she was not.
Yeah, yeah.

So you really were the only thing between.

Do you think Diane ever, you know, I mean, did she appreciate the fact that you did that or did she know? I don't remember, remember, but our lives were better. I know all our lives were better.
Yeah.

Other characters in the film, if I, sorry, are they as intensely personal as the character

dad that Woody played? You know, it's funny how life will deal you who

the significant love of your life is. And, you know, and hopefully we all

pick a mate and and and you know, but but it doesn't always work like that. And um, and in this case, you know,

my mother and her sister, they were,

I think,

the significant loves in each other's lives. I mean, they just, they were sisters who just adored each other.
And that's sort of,

there's two women in the picture where that's, where I think it's true of each of them that,

yeah,

the young star and Jamie Lee Curtis. Right.
Yeah.

The young star. What is her name? Emma Mackey.
Emma Mackey, who was in sex education. Yes.
Yeah. Astounding.
Yes. She's so good.
Such a good actor. Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Yep. She's

easy on the eye.

Yeah.

Had you worked with Albert Brooks?

Oh, Albert. I've known I've known him.
No, I know. But it was it.
Yeah, broadcast news. Yeah, he was nominated.
Right. Yeah.

But I mean, after that, has this been a long stretch of not working with him or have you seen him in a lot of

times? He's he's sons do some terms on the Simpsons.

Right. So, yeah.
So, yeah, and we're friends. Yeah.
You know, my only claim to you, which I do make use of, because that's how I am. You owe everything to me.
Yes. Are we finally getting to that?

Yes, we are.

Because you were.

I embarrassing. I had to bring it up.

Well, it's Woody. Woody will go to sleep when we start talking about me.
So I wanted to, you know. No, I remember it vividly.

I won't go to sleep. I'll just go into a very meditative stage.

You just got to get them ready. There's going to be a little few minutes here.
It's not going to be about you.

That's painful.

It is. It leads to you, my friend, who I adore.

You know, cheers brought us together. Look how he's reassuring you.
Yeah, he's true.

So, anyway, you're doing taxi. It's the maybe the fourth year or third or fourth year of taxi.

And I think somebody

maybe either dropped out or couldn't or something something, because I got a last-minute call to come down and audition/slash go to the next room and read for the table read-through for taxi.

And I'm where were you in your career? Where were you in your career right then? In the toilet, Jim. In the toilet.

My memory.

I'd done two or three movies and then I'd guest starred all over the place. Great.
And great. You kill her, too.
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry Cavson.
Yeah, yeah. body heat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm a serious actor.
No, no,

attention must be paid.

I'm very competitive with my friend Woody.

So I, I, just a little side note: when I hear about this movie you just made, what I do when I realize Woody's about to be into something really good and he'll be really good in it, I refuse to watch it on anything except my cell phone because I can then go, fuck you, Woody Harrelson.

I've made you the right size.

Okay, anyway, down I come to. That was uncomfortable, but go ahead.

Yeah, down I come to, and I read and I, and it was, I remember you laughing when I was reading around the table and it was like music to my ears because I had heard your laugh throughout, you know, all the episodes of taxi because you have that distinctive laugh.

And it was like, oh, that was wonderful.

But I think Jimmy Burroughs was either directing that episode of Taxi, but he was also around the corner with Leson Glenn Charles putting together and starting to cast Cheers.

And because you hired me for Taxi and I got to be in proximity of Lesson Glenn, I do believe that I owe you a great deal because obviously that led to cheers. I really would.

I really appreciate it, but you're not quite going far enough with Chris.

You fought for me when no one else wanted me, something like that.

This is my memory. Good.
That

you played a gay guy in that issue. Flamboyant, but yes, go ahead.
Yes. Well,

and

we had the dress rehearsal, and the dress did not go particularly well.

And

this is the way I remember it.

And it was, and

this is so,

I, I just caught myself telling a ridiculously self-serving story. Please do it.

I'm blushing, I swear to God.

And do you remember this?

And

I just said one word to you

when you came over and it was cast to the rail and stuff like that.

And it was fly.

And

you just nodded and you exploded.

I kind of do. I kind of do remember.

I brought the house down. Yes, yes.

Yeah. But just extraordinary.
i mean i i mean i remember it vividly yeah

notes actors to the rail after dress rehearsal and you can tell whether the series is a is a solid series when the actors want to go to the rail you know yes yeah yeah

oh my god that was The rail being

the producers and everybody and the writers are in the raised audience that accommodates the audience for a lot of

shows. So the last chance to get notes before the audience.

I do, I do believe that to be so. And I do remember it wasn't good and then became good.
So thank you. Well, no, it was good and became, I think, great.
Yeah. There you go.
Yeah.

Suck on that, Woody Harrelson.

Is this shit over with? I mean, how long is this going on? Oh my God.

I felt like an hour.

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Well,

we went back in time, so let's go even further. So

what made you think early on that you could write funny stuff and then turn it into people?

I mean, how did you go from the kid alone in the apartment to somebody actually submitting funny material, hoping it would work? It's so weird that you have to catch breaks, you know, that

luck is a... as big a part of it.
Like, you know, that I, I, I, the first decent job I got, I was an usher for CBS.

And

when you were an usher, you, the, you, you were a vacation replacement. If ever, if higher level, slightly higher level jobs, what are still junior jobs opened up.

And one was as a desk assistant copyboy for CBS News when CBS News was, you know, Jesus Christ, the temple of everything.

And

I filled in as a vacation replacement and the guy didn't come back to the job. And I swear, if he had come back to the job,

I can't imagine, I can imagine, I actively imagine how desolate my life

could have been. And you would have wiped out me and Woody at the same time.
Yeah, yeah.

So he didn't come back and you

had to step up right now. And I had, yes, and I had my stepping stone,

which only went to guys with college graduates, usually good colleges. And

I had screwed up college and after a year, just you know, the. And how does that connect to writing, that job?

Well, you were writing copy. I mean.

Well, no,

I was bringing coffee to... You're looking at somebody who

brought coffee to Edward R. Murrow.
Yeah. Did you really, though? Yeah, did he? Yeah, yeah.
That is very

like.

This is the guy who was the pillar of journalism and pillar of broadcast journalism when it was a temple that you cannot imagine imagine today, when it was church, when it was, you trusted it, it took care of you, it served you in a way that, you know, we'll never see again.

But there was that moment, and he was the man of that moment. And there's a woman who wrote a 1,200-word book, 1,200-page book about

Edward R. Murrow.

And they asked her, what was the biggest surprise that you had in the 10 years of research you did? And is that he deserved a legend? I mean, he really was that guy, that god of a man.

Who broadcast from London?

And they called him Murrow's Boys, all the people who reported, and who brought down McCarthy single-handedly when we were having, you know,

political troubles, not wildly different from today.

You don't really see any of those guys step out of the party line, so to speak, anymore. Broadcasters aren't thinking for themselves.
They're not saying, oh, I should do this and I should say that.

They're like, oh, here's your, here's what you're supposed to say. And nobody trusts them anymore.
I mean, they're not talking to people who trust. You know, there's no, come on, it's all like,

it's all, it's siloed. Yeah.
I mean, this is, this is, these are tough times, except in my movie, which.

So clearly, that informed, well, maybe not clearly,

broadcast news when you came to writing that.

Yeah,

it was soulful, yeah, because

that broadcast news is written after the first steel ball fell against the temple of journalism, you know, and there were these sudden massive layoffs. And I was, and I, I, I still had friends there.

I, I, I, I, I,

I, I'm a news junkie. I remain a news junkie.

And I was, you know, and I, and i was around you know wonderful people who were losing their jobs what was the steel ball what when they started when they started cutbacks and you know okay yeah yeah and when the when the when the murrow era was clearly over yeah

but even like before when when you were doing the mary tyler moore show that was also inspired by you know the newsroom was kind of a yeah yeah yeah yeah still very much in your yeah yeah based yeah and based on an editor who john merriman and um and and uh and he was like he was the the model for for for lou grant and he was uh he was irascible he was irascible but but he be friends with the copy boys like me, but irascible, hard-driving, you know, great.

Edited Murrow's copy. I mean, he was, you know, he was a real guy.
And

he was a great guy.

And we were friends too. And we were several levels, lots of levels below him.
And there was one night in a snowstorm.

We were getting, you know, and I had to go cross, all across from where CBS was and walk, you know, across town to get to the bus terminal and take me back to Jersey.

And

it was a snowstorm.

And he said, and he was getting the cab and he said, you want to lift? And I said, isn't that your way? And he said, yeah.

Door closed.

So he was, he was, he was the best.

And Lou Grant came out of it. Yeah.
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah.

Some of this research, you're talking about like the best schooling you ever had was having a show that's really

going

and people are watching and then you just and you have that autonomy and the writer. Well, to me, the best job in the business is to be on a series that's working.
Yes. Yeah.
Without doubt.

And for the writer, it must be the best because you don't get notes anymore. Well, you get community.

You get, you know, and by the way, Woody makes community wherever he goes, which is. Woody, that's true.

And I swear to God, part of the reason why I'm doing Part of the reason why I'm doing a podcast is because I don't do what Woody does. I'm shy and I go home.

But this, I've, you know, however many people I've gotten to talk to like this, like I am with you, is what Woody does every day of his life. You're absolutely right.
You do, you do, I hate you.

It is the best thing. I mean, cheers for us.

You know, for me, it was like basketball. I loved basketball.
I wanted to play basketball. And I, and that whole team effort that it's the team, it's not you individually, is something that went,

I learned. And

I recognized that when I got to be part of an ensemble like Cheers, it was like, oh, this feels like home. And on that lot, as other things are going.

And, you know, I always talk about those days as we had everything because there was a television ghetto that those of us on series were on one side of the lot. Then there was a movie side of the lot.

Whoa. And at that time,

you couldn't cross over. I'm trying to remember who.
I think Ron Howard was the first crossover, the first guy over the fence from television to movies. And

but so we had great jobs working with people we enjoyed, and we got to be the underdogs. We were all making good money because the movie guys were looking down on us.

So we even had underdog going for us. Yeah.
And you had,

I remember that sometimes people would finish a show. They would have shot their show one,

you know, I don't know what it was, but they were friends with writers on our show and they were having a problem. So they'd go over and work on the problem together.

It was a real sense of writer community. Yeah, and Glenn and Leslie, of course, were on taxi and then, you know, and they were, you know, yeah.

And and and taxi had a good party every Friday night, which everybody came to. You know, we would shoot before an audience on Friday night.
And it would be

some

days. Yeah.
Go down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We had good parties. They were little, there was, they were smoke-filled rooms, but

Well, that doesn't hurt.

Doesn't hurt.

Weren't you impressed?

That made you the tame group at the time. Yeah, yeah.

It was interesting because, you know, because you had on

the Mary Dylan Moore Show, you had...

the Charles brothers, right? Yep. And Jimmy came in too.
Yep, yep. And out of that was born taxi.

Yeah, Jimmy broke in on that. Simple way to put it.
Yeah.

Jimmy was observed on the Mary Tyler Moore Show and then directed on the Mary Tyler Moore Show. Yeah.
Yeah.

And I think, was it then or was it during taxi that Les and Glenn and Jimmy decided to team up and be a threesome?

I think during taxi, I think so. I think so.
So you're doing

television, you're doing writers' rooms, and what was your first, forgive me, it wasn't Terms of Endearment. There was a film before Terms where you wrote it and directed it.
What was that?

Do you remember? I think that was my first writing and directing. I produced and wrote

a movie that was on television. Starting over.
Oh, starting over. Wait a minute.
Yes. With Cameron.
Right. Yeah.

You wrote that.

Yeah. Yeah.
Alan Pakula directed it. Yeah.
Yeah.

So terms was your first writing directing. Yes, yes.
All right. Here's one of my questions.
Coming from writers' rooms.

Do you ever miss a writer's room when you're writing a film? Or are you okay to be all by yourself, locked in a room writing?

It's a totally different experience. You know, I'm still active on The Simpsons.
So I mean, I get that.

I love, you know, so I mean,

it's a blessing to still have, you know, that community going all the time.

And And

they're just different experiences.

Well, one's lonelier and more personal. And

I always think

there's this,

what is it,

Sunday in the Park with George, that musical about the artist. And there's a wonderful song in there where the

famous art was Surat, I think, was a

famous French artist.

And they have a song where he goes through everything and he says, look, I made a hat because he painted a hat on somebody that after all the geshrying and everything, look, I made a hat.

And I think of that as what we all do, you know, look, look,

you know? Yeah.

What I just said might have been a little heavier than you guys took. No, no, no, no, no.

What made me think is,

Woody has a connection to you in that he does write plays. He does write.
He does write music. You know, he does produce.
He has directed. I'm your

probably your dream actor. All I want to do is act only.
And that's all I have. That's all I'm equipped to whatever degree I'm equipped to do.

So I am kind of, when I, there's a pause, I'm trying to go, what would that be like to create, to write from an empty blank page?

You know,

where does one start? I guess one starts in some cases thinking about your father. These days, especially these movie days, because I think, you know, I think television is so rich,

everything. And, you know, just this,

I hate the word content. I think there's some danger in

calling

what we do

content providers. It's so bizarre.

Produce. Yeah, no, it's just to be able to have an idea

and end up

doing a movie these days

from that idea that you wanted and that you saw all the way through is

is is getting tougher and and and so you just are such an asshole if you don't really appreciate the opportunity big time these days i mean i think it and i think that's you know i just think jesus i really glad i got this you know that's that's that's that's new

do you still are i mean because you made so many beloved brilliant

award-winning, you know, lots of box office, still get to ride on that?

Or do you have to prove yourself each time and struggle to get money or whatever?

There was a very wonderful grizzled producer I knew.

And I remember when, you know, when I did terms of endearment, my question to him was, because we got down with each other. And I said, how many more?

How many more will they let me make because of this? And he said, maybe two.

Yeah.

Wow.

Which is, yeah.

What was your next one?

Broadcast news or no?

I think, I don't know.

I had a flop in there someplace, but I think broadcast news might have been, I think it's my second one. Yeah, that was next.
Yeah. Love that movie.

Remember, you showed it to us in Rhode Island before we started shooting. Is that right?

God, it was great. Like, I hadn't seen it in a while.
And to see it on the big screen like that instead of, you know, like your television. Yeah.
It was, God, it was great, man.

That, that movie is phenomenal. But

what was that like to work on? What makes

the Holly Hunter, for example? I mean,

she was

barely known.

She had done a Cone Brothers picture that I don't even think it was out yet. Racing, Arizona.

And I was about to pick someone where we wouldn't be talking about that movie today,

because that was what I was down to. And then Julia Taylor, who was

legendary casting director in New York, and who and who I never stopped thanking because this is me having spent six months looking for the girl, maybe more than six months, and seeing everybody and seeing everybody and being such a pain in the ass.

And she still, and there was still a moment where instead of saying, oh, shit, he's on the phone again, I mean, which is a miracle that she had that kind of spirit.

Instead of saying that, she said, tell me again what you're looking for. And she said, there's a girl here

who's about to leave town. I think you can still see her.
And it was Holly Hunter. And it was,

you know, and it was, and as I say, the other thing would have changed my life. If, I mean, that's it.
I mean, isn't that the thing that you can't get used to?

Because the one I was about to cast, we wouldn't be talking today. And

yeah, was it what did she? So, did she audition for you, or you just met her? She auditioned, she auditioned, she auditioned. Yeah, she auditioned.

And you were like, damn, boom, yeah, this girl's pretty good. No, no, there was, it was, it was, thank God, it was, it was fall to your knees.
Yeah, did you always have Bill Hurt in mind?

Yes, I actually, I, I postponed the movie six months in order to get him, and um,

yeah, and and good choice, and um,

and it was because I thought the one thing you can't act is charisma, you know, and the whole thing was about a guy who had that thing, you know, had that thing since he was a little boy, had that thing.

And you can't act that. I mean, I wish we were drinking tonight because

I think it could be a good night if I just started talking to you guys about Bill Hurd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm ready to get it going. It's nighttime over here, guys.

Let's go to the woods. Yeah.

there you go. Let's go to the woods.

You had,

but you had that with

for Enima's part, like you really worked a long time to find that character. It was just a long time.
I mean, this is

the heroine of this movie goes from 16 to 34. I mean, she has real scenes at 16, real scenes with this guy.
And

it's sort of like an, and it's, it's,

you know,

everybody's sort of

does this, this kind of comedy that, you know, that wants to try and tell the truth and stuff like that, if you possibly can. And,

you know, those 50s movies, the, you know,

the Hepburn, you know, you know, you know, these are,

this is the, you know, this is the museum. This is the great museum.
Both Hepburns, Audrey Hepburn, Catherine Hepburn. And it was, and Screwball is something.
And so so this whole, you know,

maybe it was the wrong notion or something, but

what I was chasing was,

can you try and be a little screwball comedy? And

comedy, it has to be, but the little screwball and still try and tell the truth about something. So that was the thought.
But you do that. You do that so well.
Wow. Yeah, you do that.

Well, but there's a lot of truth in this movie.

And I think everybody can just relate to having to deal with their parents you know with in this case the father and uh everything she's dealing with with that and then trying to deal with her husband who's a bit of a ne'er-do-well jack louden

yeah

i think it's a great actor

who does albert brooks play in this uh albert brooks plays uh the ex-governor of the state uh yeah about to become a cabinet officer i cannot wait to see

That's great. But also, Albert Brooks, that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in broadcast news where he starts sweating.

And I always wondered, I never did ask you about this, but it seems like you almost said to yourself, there's no mount that's too much. Just go ahead.

flood the set. Like it was, and it just made it so fucking funny.
Like it's incredible. It was really great.
Because Albert called me one night, turn on CNN immediately.

You know, and it was a guy sweating.

After the film. No, before the film.
That's how we got the idea. Oh, wow.

I mean,

it's a catchphrase. I mean, you know, I was sweating.
I mean, broadcast news sweating.

Yeah.

It must be fun to work with him again. Yeah.
Where'd you shoot? Rhode Island? Is that what you said? Providence? I mean, why?

It's because of the tax break.

And, you know, and we, and this movie is anywhere USA, basically. So that fit that.
I can't wait to see it. Tell me about the music because you said you're still working on the music.

Is that a big part? Do you take great joy in having that part of your process in the room? I take great joy in being friends with Hans Zimmer.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I mean, he's, I mean,

there's a

phrase in a class by himself. I mean, this is just so literally true about Hans because the conversation is different than you have with anybody else.

The way he gets into the movie is different.

The way he establishes goals for the music is different than anybody else. And I think it adds up to a class by himself.
Forgive my ignorance. Do you work with him a lot?

So it's just assumed when you start the movie that you guys are talking about

before you even start shooting. We've been friends a long time, yeah.
Do you say we need music here? Or he says, this would be a good place to have music. And I was thinking something like this, or

how does it develop with them? The conversation is different than

with any other composer.

The conversation is like

is more like you have with a co-writer. I mean, you know,

and where he thinks he has to be, what he thinks he has to accomplish. How, you know, it's a different, I'm telling you,

it's a different world.

the conversation is different

the goals are the girl goals are unique you know what he sees he's he's he's he's hans yesterday

every once in a while he does something brilliant and i and there's a room full of people i say hans zimmer ladies and gentlemen you know

yeah He's incredible. Are you setting, not guardrails, but are you saying, you know, it needs to have a 50s, a 40s, whatever, contemporary.

Are you setting tone or is he looking at the tone of what you've shot and

come up with it himself?

He's a genius. He's a genius at work.

And I'm sure he has the,

obviously he's Hans Zimmer, but that some movies get overscored and it's like kind of pushes you away. I mean, it is such a

delicate broadcast news.

There was a series of things where I was left holding the bag with the

picture needing to be finished. And I went around begging music from like three different composers and putting it together feverishly at the last minute.

And that was such a scary time that, you know, that it's made it forever.

I don't want to go through that again. Yeah.
Jim, do you think that this movie will be ready for the December 12th date that it's supposed to come out in the theaters? Yes, sir. Will it be ready?

Yes, it'll be ready.

I think I'm a week away from being a free man.

Really? Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. I know you're a tinkerer.
You like to get in there and tinker.

I have like two days of looping to go through. Yeah, you're right.
I'm a little, yeah.

So I'm 78. I don't know how old you are.
I'm 78 in a few months. I don't know how old you are, man.
You're a bad numbers.

But you're saying that there's still a chance that I could be in one of your movies.

Don't make this about me. Just the way you sold yourself right now, man, just got me.
Yeah. Just that.
Just that, just that. Just that

the wit, but a little pitiable.

You know,

get peered out at the end. You can write a wimp.
You've written wimps before. You're great, man.
I'd love to work with you.

There it is. That's our quote for the show.
In front of Woody.

Something Something about that felt strange.

Anyway, it's good.

There's that laugh that just made me love Taxi even more.

Jimmy Burrows has a laugh. Jimmy used to,

he would laugh during rehearsal, but

at first it was like, oh, we're making Jimmy laugh. Then we kind of all realized, no, he's marking.

the moment to let us know that an audience could be laughing here. So be aware that you may need to vamp for a second.
It was, it was, uh,

you don't think it was genuine laughter? Well, sometimes, sometimes, but it was also because it was,

I thought it was a little bit more than necessary at times, but it was like he was educating the cast in that moment.

He was such an important part of cheers for me that if when he didn't direct, it was like literally I had no idea how to play Sam Malone. None.

It was like I was always performing to some degree for Jimmy. Wow.
Yeah.

Wow,

I'll let Andy Ackerman know that right away.

Oh, yeah. He hasn't hired me recently, so who cares?

Did you ever work with Andy as an editor or no? No. He didn't do taxi.
No. Yeah.

No. How about editor? Do you still work with the same editor on your films or does that change? I did for a long time, and then

we lost him, But I've done the last couple with the same editor.

You spend six months in a room with somebody. It's like a cellmate.
Yeah. Have you ever miscast the part? Don't name names

unless it's Woody.

That would make you, you'd get a lot of satisfaction out of that.

There was.

I think it was terms of endearment. I think it was terms of endearment.
And

I had cast somebody as it was,

as the part that John Lithgow ultimately played, where he, he might have won the Academy Award. He was nominated, I know.
And

I was in my trailer

and the actor who I had hired for the part was passing my window.

And he was saying, and we had filmed, and he had not been so hot. And he said, once they got you on film, you got them by the balls.

I heard that.

Oh, literally.

I heard that in the trailer. As he passed my window, he didn't know I was hearing it.

And you know what?

The term blood goes cold literally happened to me. It was like the my and

then we

placed him. And he had been weak, but I might have struggled with him and stuff like that.
And then I heard that. And then I was able to get John Lethgow.

But I'm telling you, man, I mean,

the theme is catch a break or don't. Yeah.

You said something to the effect about how, because you've had this unreal success in television as well as movies.

It's you can't even, it's hard to even calibrate how, and it's not obviously just luck but how lucky you've been how fortunate you've been you know

and you said something about like the this thing of having an awareness about your career and being told you know how your career is going you know like there's something about that awareness is very dangerous and destructive self-consciousness yeah did you ever feel like you got into a self-conscious place that it made it hard to write or wouldn't you guys agree it's the enemy i mean self-consciousness is the enemy.

It is. It's some sort of, you know,

that thing, get over yourself is the best advice that ever became a popular phrase. I mean, you know, you can't.
You just, yeah.

Especially since what we do is a team sport, you know, so it gets ridiculous. Yeah.
And I think every all creativity has to

the risk is you want to repeat the success, but that you need to start at zero each time. You need to start at not knowing as opposed to, you know.

Yeah, there used to be this notion, you know, to do one for them, meeting what the studio wants and what's working that day

and what's readily accepted and what's the log line is good and one for yourself. I don't see where in your career you were doing the one for them.

Yeah,

I've been spoiled in a really good way. I think, you know, I think there's a, you know, I think I got lucky, but maybe it started to sound like a good job to me.
One for them.

Hey, you know, it's a little easier. It's a little easier.
Hey, boss. Hey, boss.

Glad you liked it. Glad you liked it.
Just let me know. Just let me know.
It's sounding so good to me.

I want to do them all for them.

What a revelation. Thank God I came today, man.
It's a good title. It's a good title for your next movie.
One for them. I'm a little emotional.

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Do you still have heroes, people you look up to, people people you, you know, kind of, or did you starting out? Did anyone mentor you when it came to movie?

But

I sure had people I worship, like I, you know, like Pat Haevsky and

Casavetes, I got to hang around with Cassavetes, who, I mean, you guys,

you would have gone nuts to work with John Cassavetes. And Carol King got me

with Cassavetes so that I got to hang around while

he had already done his movies, but he and Elaine May were working with actors together on a stage at Columbia to improvise a script for a movie they do. And I got to just sit there.
Wow. And

I'm telling you, this guy, the only guy in history who voluntarily gave up male movie star.

He chose not to do that job, which he could have had, you know. And the passion and the love and the group thing.
And, you know, he's

sort of the father of independent film in there. And it was, it was, and the relationship of actors to each other, supporting each other.

It was just, and I'm like a kid and I'm taking this in and I'm seeing heaven, you know? Wow. Yeah.
Was Jenna Rowlands part of that?

She was not, I mean, he was married to her and, you know, and she was, and he had these dinners. He was very very inclusive.
There was always dinners and stuff like that.

And it was all, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I'll tell you my favorite story, see what you guys think. And

so here, Elaine May and John Cassavetes, okay, okay, okay.

And they're working on this movie, and Elaine had to go east. And

it's getting to be Christmas. And I was...
I was auditing and

Casavettes was so generous. He invited me to the Christmas lunch they did at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

I'm the jerk guy auditing.

And here's the cast and him.

And one of the guys says they've been rehearsing for a while now.

And

he said,

John,

I have to go to New York. I got a job.

They weren't being paid at all.

And he said, I got a job. And Cassavetes didn't only say, you can't take that job, you know, because

this is the temple of truth. He said, you better not let Elaine hear you say that.
He didn't even say no.

That was it. You can't.
Wow. Yeah.

And what happened? Did the guy stay? He stayed. He stayed.
And it was weird. John, I got to make a living.
You better not.

But that was church.

You know, that's what made it church.

I had an acting teacher like that. You had to commit to two years.
It was the Meisner technique. And you had to commit.
And it seemed unreasonable, but there's

method to that madness. It's like, no, commit.

I get it. Method to the madness.

Oh, yeah. Thanks, Woody.

It took Jim a minute to catch on, but God bless you, Reisner. It actually did.

So John Cassavettes is a mentor. That's amazing.
I mean, you guys would have gone nuts. I mean, it was, I mean, he was, you know, just so

the attitude towards the work is just was,

yeah. Wasn't Ben Gazar a part and yeah, yeah, Tony and Tony Franciazki.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Then they, they all, they, they met in a movie and they all became like friends for like husbands. Husbands.
Was it husbands? It was no. It was no.
Well, they did do husbands.

But that was Casavetti's film. Yes.
And just, I'd just like to point out, Time Magazine called it in its review the greatest film ever made. I mean, it was some, some, and

it's just, it's, and I was around.

I was around, you know, it's just,

you know, and, and.

Is this pre-taxi, pre? I think it was pre-birth. I don't know, it was like,

I don't recall, I just a seminal lightning bolt and suddenly I was in a different world. So it was like,

but it was just so beautiful because I think it was,

maybe it was Francioska having a hard time or,

you know,

or Peter Falk. It was Peter Falk.

Peter Falk was at the bottom of staircase and it was, I think Franciosa maybe coming down the stairs and he was a hard time with that moment. And

this is basic. This is the pearl.
And one actor having a hard time and he was having a hard time and Peter Falk was down there. He said, Hey, look at me, man.
I'll give you something.

I asked Jack Nicholson, what do you do if you're in a scene with somebody who's a bad actor? And he said, Whatever the other person is doing is perfect. Yeah.

Really?

I know, Woody, you have them replaced.

Yeah.

Well, isn't that, but it is, it is, isn't that? Come on.

I mean, mean,

it's really an attitude, isn't it? It's a great attitude. I'm not sure that's 100%

true, but there's sometimes some of them just so bad. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm out of here.
Check, please.

Yeah. In terms of if you're a working actor, in terms of you have to, you're there and you have to do it, you know.

You have no choice. Yeah.
Yeah. Or else your life is the choice.
The choice is your life is rushing in front of your eyes. Yeah.

Well,

that kind of flies in the face of that thing

Brando said, just because they say action doesn't mean I have to do anything.

I had a friend that produced one of the last things he did, and

he was just supposed to say two words. He's lying in bed, and he's supposed to say, I'm not sure, or something like that.

And

he kept waiting, and they kept waiting. And finally said,

Let's do this tomorrow. And he said, But you only have to say two words, please.
We need to wrap the picture.

I'm not feeling it and left.

So there's that.

There's that, Marlon. You know.
Yeah.

Yeah.

A little too whimsical.

A little too whimsical

thank you so so so much for coming in and talking really appreciate it it's really nice to see you again i'm dismissing you we have three more guests coming up no i'm kidding um sorry infel are you uh

yeah yeah hey i just cut off jim brooks and nobody harrison no no there's something to be said for coitus interruptors yeah

you had a you had a smooth

i want to get home i've been i've been all the way in East LA this whole time, and I got to get back. Yeah, Jim, don't even think you're going to go get a coffee with Teddy or no.

He goes straight home. He doesn't pass go.
He doesn't collect going.

He goes straight on.

Usually I say,

don't wait for me.

I saw him secretly putting on his shoes. I didn't.

No, you usually say, I say, Teddy, I'll meet you over at Gratitude, right? I mean, it's five minutes from there. He's like, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I can go ahead and be right there.

Well, Bravo, man. Well, I don't know about Bravo, but

that means you got a happy home.

I do. Yeah.

Yeah, I love you, Jim. I really, I miss you, buddy.
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and we almost at Paris. Yeah.
You too, Woody. You are missed and adored.
And thank you for doing this. This is great.
Thank you between your show.

Can you do me a favor, Jim, and just tell me, just look at me and tell me to fly?

Isn't that the note you gave me?

Fly.

God.

The way I said it at the time, I think, was fly!

Please be better.

Don't do anything.

You should have gave me that note when we did the reading a long time ago, Jim. I should have heard the fly note.
This will be our code word now. Yeah.
Yeah.

Woodrow. Travel.

Jim,

I've had some of the greatest conversations, greatest dinners, greatest bottles of wine with you.

Just extraordinary

and the humor that you that is so original. I just,

anyway, I love you and I miss you and I hope I get to see you soon, buddy. Yeah, yeah, same here.

Special thank you to Jim Brooks for being here and for my friend Woody for zooming in. Let's do it again soon.
That's all for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

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where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Liao.

Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer.
Engineering Remixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl. Talent Booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.
Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

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