Episode 1667 - In Conversation with Jim Gaffigan at 92NY

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Lock the gates!

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast.

Welcome to it.

What's happening with you?

What is going on?

Well, I'll be honest with you.

I, uh,

In preparation for the

departure of my social life in the form of this show, I've realized that

I'm going to have to kind of get that somewhere else.

It's a very weird thing about

what's going on inside of me, I think.

I think the inner child idea, though a little hackneyed and probably played out, is somewhat real.

It's an interesting model.

Because I do believe there's part of me emotionally that really hasn't

really evolved that much since I was probably 13 or 14.

And at some point early in college, I decided to, you know, permanently lock that kid in a cage and just, you know, kind of be different varieties of monster until I leveled off into a kind of a wiser, more

tamped down version of my adult self.

But there is this like need for me to

kind of let that kid out a little bit, breathe and get on board.

I had this very weird moment after everything that's gone on over the last couple weeks, just everything that I've been doing and showing up for, publicity, the special dropping, just

all the stick being renewed, all the stuff that would generally overwhelm me and does to the point of massive anxiety.

There was a moment where I was standing in front of my house, and I think this was some other part of me, some younger part of me.

There was a younger part of me standing there inside of me who was like, how'd you, how'd you even pull this off?

Whose house is this?

How did you do this?

Is that your car?

And I'm like, yeah, dude.

You know, I don't know, I don't know.

I know, I don't know exactly.

I'm sorry I kind of, you know, kept you out of it, but yeah, this is what we're doing.

This is who we are.

Now, you know, this is the life we're living.

And he's like, Jesus, that's fucking crazy.

And I'm like, yeah, it is.

I have no idea.

I don't know if you helped or not.

I mean, did you?

He's like, I don't know.

I mean, sometimes I had dreams, but, you know,

they didn't exactly look like this, but yeah, good for you.

And I'm like, good for us, dude.

Good for us, I guess.

So that's sort of what I'm dealing with.

In other words, I went to a meeting the other night for the first time in a long time.

And there was a few people there.

They're a little concerned at my apparent dryness.

I'm talking recovery racket talk here.

So I'm like, well, that's one way to get what you need because there is part of me that's sort of like

when I get stressed, there's a real part of me that's like, why doesn't somebody help me?

Why doesn't somebody do this?

Why doesn't somebody make this better?

Where's my mommy and daddy?

Well, your dad's got dementia and your mom's down in Florida.

But I thought, like, well, there is help and you know where it is.

So why don't you go to one of the secret society meetings,

reopen those neural pathways, connect the fucking vibe, talk about the isms, you dry fuck.

So that was good.

Let's see if I stick by it.

Stick with it.

I'll stick by it, but I got to stick with it.

Got to go.

Today on the show, We have a unique thing.

This is a talk with Jim Gaffigan that was recorded last Thursday at the 92nd Street Y in New York City.

First, there was a screening of panicked, then this talk with Jim, including audience questions.

So we thought we'd share that.

Me and Jimmy catching up, doing the thing, the old-timer thing, a couple of old comics, medium old, coming in medium warm, not coming in hot, coming in lukewarm.

That's what's going on on the show today.

Bit of a cat update.

You know, I've done everything I can.

In order to try to ease Charlie's anxiety and aggression

and

insane temperament, I've done everything I can.

I did fellaways in every room.

I played with him until he was panting and exhausted.

I played some weird channel, Rumschlag or something, where it's just almost ambient and neoclassical music.

And

to no avail, he's still just locked in and all he wanted to do is beat the fuck out of Buster, which makes it a very sad house.

So I'm trying the Prozac again at a smaller dose, and it's fucking a pain in the ass to give this cat medicine.

I know that's not unusual, but these people that have cats, let's just mix it in with the food.

I'm like, you don't have my cat.

I've got to hold this fuck down and, you know, and squirt it in his mouth.

And then he hates me for

longer than you think.

You know, kids are like, no, they just remember that, the act, not you.

And I'm like, I don't know.

Seems kind of pissed off.

But we're a couple days into it and something's happening.

I think when I did it with him last time, I had a higher dose and it just knocked him out.

Now he's just a little loopy and kind of surprised and confused.

He still seems to want to go after Buster, but not with the

intensity or focus that he had before.

So I don't know.

I'll try to stick with it.

I'm not going to project.

He doesn't seem to like me as much as he used to because

something about the Prozac is diminishing his

intense need for my

attention.

I'll deal with that.

I've been in relationships like that before.

Usually, it's the other way around.

But

yeah, but the saddest part about it is that there is this mild tension and I project a lot into my cats and I have this sort of ambient kind of meditative music, but it kind of operates as a soundtrack.

So whatever I'm projecting onto these cats in terms of drama and sadness, it just gets elevated with this.

You know, it's, it's, it's comforting, kind of, it's, it's meditative, but there's always a slight menace to that stuff.

It's always a sad turn in a movie or a kind of pensive,

quieter scene, or

someone's just gotten their heart broken and they're thoughtful or it's maybe moving into something terrible.

So it's not helping me.

I don't know if it's helping the cats, but it is creating a soundtrack to everything I think is going on in their minds, which probably isn't much.

I imagine with Buster, it's like, just keep that fucker away from me.

I imagine with Charlie, it's like, where is that fucker?

I imagine with Sam,

which is just sort of like, why are these fuckers doing this?

So, and then the kind of like,

that's not a good impression.

I don't know if I can manufacture a kind of ambient neoclassical music, but I think you get my drift.

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So I guess I'll keep talking about this because, you know, whatever I did

leading up to the special, putting it out there, some of the material going viral and stuff, it really seems to be getting out there.

And

it is rewarding.

And I am happy that it's drawing a lot of eyes to it because I'm proud of the special.

And, you know, there's usual trolling, but most of the feedback is awesome.

I think somehow or another, I captured a moment in our culture and the timing was correct.

You don't know with that kind of thing because something's going to be on the shelf for a little while before they release it, but the turnaround was quick.

And unfortunately, in a very unfortunate way, not much has changed since the beginning of this fucking shit show we're in.

But outside of that, and I believe this wholeheartedly, that there is definitely something in the special for everyone.

I designed it like that.

Sure, some things are going to be like a little hard to take or not your cup of tea, but I believe there is something in there for everybody.

And the response has been great.

As I've said before, I believe it's my best work and I'm happy it's out there.

And even the stuff that people are picking up on on the social media platforms in the form of clips, I like that they can survive like that and that even just a little bit happen, you know, has

an impact.

I mean, there's a line in that special that I think is one of the best lines of the special that I came up with days before.

And it's just a testament to my ridiculous process of kind of generating onstage and waiting for things to be delivered to me that they are.

And I

can't say it's an easy way to go.

And I don't know where I'm going to go now.

It's a, it's a, a kind of a,

it's difficult.

And one of the reasons why I always say that, you know, this might be it for me is because at the end of doing two years worth of work on an hour and change, you know, you have stuff left over that you can sometimes use to kind of get back in the groove and build out from there, but it always feels like it's not going to come.

And that's where I'm at now, square one.

Square one with the comedy, and then soon I'll be out of this gig, and

that'll leave a lot of space.

And I don't know, please cue the ambient music.

Oh, God.

But yeah, so it's not a sad time, but it's an in-between time, and there is a little kind of postpartum weight to it.

But

I hope you're enjoying it.

I hope you continue to enjoy it until I am tapped and until the show goes away.

So look, Jim and I had a nice chat.

It was recorded at the 92nd Street Y in New York as part of their Craig Newmark Civic Life series.

The screening went nice, went good.

And then Jim and I sat down behind the curtain and they just revealed us.

There was no introductions.

it was just you guys sit in those chairs, and we'll raise the curtain.

It was like contestants on a game show.

It's kind of funny.

But I love Jim, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The most theatrical reveal for a Q ⁇ A I've ever seen, right?

It's like a game show opening.

Are you ready to play, Jim?

Let's reveal Mark and Jim.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mark, what a fantastic special.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

And

I just watched it again, you know, with you guys.

Yeah.

It's a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, I've known you for a while, and you are a lot, Mark.

But I think that creatively, by the way, and I'm not just saying this, I think this, I feel like you're getting better at this, right?

Would you agree?

Yeah.

I mean, this is how many years in?

Oh, my God.

500 years?

Well, I guess as a professional since 88,

right?

So it's about the same as you, right?

Like, I think I first did it, like, 86, 87, you know, was when we were starting out.

Then they had all those cable shows we'd all do.

Like, you remember there's Evening at the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour, MTV half hour, and they would just use guys that had like 10 minutes of material, and we'd do them.

And I'm sure that a lot of people here are fans of yours, and I've known you for so long.

And

the biggest thing that I picked up in this special, which by the last special was amazing, but this special, there is

something very uncharacteristically Mark Maron.

There is a happiness.

And that's not to say that you're not

the lunatic and there isn't the authentic anger, but like there is, maybe it's not happiness.

Maybe there's a peace.

I think I may be grounded.

And I do think, I don't know if I'm happier necessarily, but

I think I have a true sense of who I am now, you know, on stage, and I have a confidence in it.

So there's no desperation.

There's no panic around it.

And there's no, like, you know,

I think the anger when I was younger was part of it.

Like,

I really tried to sell.

anger.

Like, I assumed there was a period there, remember, when during Luna Lounge where I'd get on stage and just improvise these miserable, bitter stories.

And I could not understand why people weren't laughing.

And because I really believed, like, everyone's got to be as fucking miserable as me.

They're just afraid to laugh at it, you know.

And then years went by, and I'm like, yeah, I don't think it's funny at all, you know.

But I think what's happening is

I'm older, I give, you know, less fucks, and I think my craft is in, you know, a pretty amazing place I feel like I have versatility within you know this thing we've been doing our whole lives and I and I do think I'm grounded and and maybe I'm definitely at peace with myself as a performer because of

I think when I was younger I probably would have tried to do that babysitter joke

But it wouldn't have come out right.

And arguably it's a difficult piece of material, but but there was always part of me that sort of wanted to defy an audience.

And I think that part of me still exists, but now I can be a little more charming about it.

Yeah, no,

there's so much about, you know, you develop these skills of developing material, and it's all self-assignment.

And by the way, let me say the first part when you're talking about some topical stuff,

we live in a very interesting time and age where I...

Diplomatic word.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No,

where I truly believe there is

almost zero appetite for

the topic that you discussed and you did it beautifully and you did it where I wanted to hear more, like that first five or ten minutes.

And I was like so amazed because

there was a time during the first administration of Trump where I think people would just look at at the ceiling, like, I don't want to talk about this.

But, like, we are at a point where, like, I think

you are discussing things in a way where it's very cathartic.

I mean, I know it's as a performer, it's cathartic for you, but it's like, I think the audience, I could feel the audience going, yes, yes, this is exactly what we're kind of experiencing.

That was actually tricky

on a craft level, you know, if I can talk that kind of shit.

Because,

look, you know,

I do politics for a period in most of the specials.

I would never call myself a political comic because that just means...

But I feel like it's my social responsibility, I always have, because of whatever my heroes were, whoever they were, whether it be Hicks or whoever, that there is a point where it's my social responsibility to talk about it.

But in doing it the way I did it this, this, this special, it was very deliberate because in some of the jabs I take at progressives, that it's very easy, especially from our side of it, and I'll assume most of you

so

That it is very easy to sound strident and it is very easy to sound self-righteous and I'm certainly capable of that of strutting through that material with

an almost aggravated condescension.

And heading into doing the special, like I changed it like a week before in starting that material where, you know, the difference between like, oh, everything's great, great.

And like, I feel pretty, everything's great.

Like, so there was, I decided to come under it.

And just kind of put it, like, do it almost as an aside, you know, like, ah, that's pretty good, you know, because I didn't want it to be tonally off-putting to to those other side people until they they until it happened you know I

like like I really wanted people of all people all kinds to watch the special like oh okay and then slowly go like oh what the fuck you know like I wanted

I made a conscious choice to change the tone of heading into that.

And then the balance between

finding a way to to laugh at ourselves as progressives or

leftist centers, certainly, you know, it's sort of delicate because

you push out a little too far and they're going to be mad at you.

But I was able to find these things because I relate to them personally that

worked.

But I also knew that in that first section, that I was not going to end up in a place where, like, we're going to fix this.

But I knew that

it had to have a specific tone and balance for,

because I was doing this stuff on the road, man.

And it was, you know, after he was voted in, and because of my audience, I was doing red states.

And it really started to feel like community service.

Like

it did.

And I feel like it's my responsibility to at least relieve something.

Because, you know,

if you perform in certain states and you realize, you know, I got 800 people in the theater who are, a lot of them may be be at home, you know, with whoever they live with, or maybe alone, just freaking out with their phone all the time, scared, terrified, despairing.

And it did feel like a community event where a bunch of like-minded people could be in this room, laugh at themselves, kind of laugh at what's going on, or at least feel less alone in it.

And it felt like it was important.

But do you, all right, so like, I think self-awareness is such an important element of this special and your stand-up.

Do you feel any,

and maybe you've discussed this and I haven't heard it on the podcast, but like, do you feel any kind of,

because you are kind of this, this outlet for people, not doing the podcast, do you feel a certain kind of like, well, I'm sorry, folks, I'm

not doing it anymore.

Like, there's a little bit of like, when I heard you were not going to do the podcast anymore and you do have this voice where even when you, and I, you know, I mean,

comedians have this strange affection for all comedians, we're all mentally ill, but like there's like when you were like doing the Hitler Theo Vaughn thing, it was like really funny.

And the thing is, it's like there's a certain aspect of your podcast

that was a consistent vocal element of that.

That I feel like by you stopping the podcast, do you feel like you're removing that voice of self-awareness being inserted?

Well,

look, you know, I feel,

I know there's a lot of people who listen to me.

I get emails, you know, like,

but I get good ones too, you know,

you know, that kind of, you know, built a relationship with me and rely on it.

And it does allow me to explore my ideas and my brain and speak freely without it having to be funny.

And I am definitely going to miss that.

But

I'm a little exhausted

in terms of, because you carry that with you.

You carry the responsibility that you design for yourself with your audience, with you, you know, as whatever you have it too.

And with the podcast, like they're always in my head, you know, like, you know, if I decide like, hey, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to, you know live my own life for a while

i know it's gonna fuck up your day a little bit but you've been i've been telling you how i've been living for 16 years and i've made some progress so i want to see how it works in the real world so

but they live in my head they're like don't go man

we need you right now and i'm like Yeah, I know you need me, but

it's not like anything I'm going to do on my podcast is all of a sudden going to change the world necessarily, but it does comfort people.

And I feel bad about that.

But I do need for my own sanity and to sort of let the podcast go as a body of work as opposed to this disposable thing that you keep doing because you have to.

You don't want to diminish.

Because

you do get tired.

Absolutely.

You know, that section where I say, I just want to be entertaining,

that's a real thing thing with me like you know I know that I do challenging stuff and I've done it all my life and I don't always know exactly why or whether it's coming from a good place or whether it's literally like I have this great audience but let's see if they can handle this you know so

and I have that part of me you know but but like like guys like you like I've spent my whole life sort of envying the the ability to to just just be funny like just be funny dude you know you you don't have to like you know hammer anything over the head or make these big points.

And when I did that cat thing, I was so thrilled that it kind of came together.

I'm like, this is just pure comedy.

I can just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

And it's not going to offend anybody.

It's not going to make anybody go like, you know, what the fuck is wrong with this guy, you know?

And lately, I'm like, could I just do like a whole hour of that?

I don't think I can.

I don't think I can.

Because it's actually harder.

It's harder.

Like, I know when I talk about politics, and this is just on, you know, from comic to comic here you know put them aside like I know

you know I know that I'm I'm gonna lose people like I know with that material you you know I've kind of you know hardened my my

not my heart but like I know that I'm going if I'm going to deliver you know ideologically based you know humor that is divisive to some people, that it's going to be that.

So you kind of gird her up and you realize like this isn't for everybody, but I think it's necessary.

And then when you don't get the laughs that you think you should you're sort of like well that's because that material is a little hard to have where whereas you just be funny all the time if you don't get laughs you fucked up yeah

but i think that you know i always say that people comedians get so much credit or criticism for the the only type of comedy they can do like there is not

some

like when people are like oh it's it's so great that why don't you curse and uh you know I jokingly will say, Jesus told me not to.

Some of it is, that is the comedy that works for me.

And so some of it is the most fulfilling form of comedy is what you do, because it's all self-assignment, right?

It's not as if someone is like, you have to discuss trauma at a certain point in an act.

That is, Mark decided, I'm going to, I'm going to, at this point, I'm going to challenge myself to discuss trauma in a way where I'm not going to alienate the people that are,

you know, that have processed trauma.

I'm actually going to inform them about EMDR and all this, and I'm going to make it humorous.

It's like, that's what's so rewarding about a comedian: you have these tragic things that happen.

You go, all right, my wife had a brain tumor.

I think I'm going to try and make this funny.

And that's the

hilarious.

hopefully.

But so let's talk about like

let's talk about the that's important though because like with the trauma thing, I think that

what I'm speaking to is what I learned from doing from Bleak to Dark in relation to grief is that I realized that there is this zone of human experience that is almost

100% of people have these things.

Like, you're not going to get out of it without grief, and you're not going to get out of it, obviously, without dying.

And most people, you know, sadly

have trauma.

Certainly my audience.

So

that

and the idea that it can't be discussed in a way.

So like if you bring that shit out and you lay it out there, and you know, obviously, you know, there was a twist at the end of that, you know, that it was relieving to me when I talked to my dad as well.

But

there is this idea that if

you bring your trauma up and you do process it, that you do have a certain choice in

what the impact really was when you separate it from

the PTSD.

And also,

you kind of,

you don't have to be a victim.

Like there's something about speaking about trauma if you're willing to find it in yourself because I think those kind of things, you know, they break your brain into a sort of victim mode and that you know then you kind of look at your life you know and and your choices through this this trauma that if you can lighten that up somehow and obviously some traumas is horrendous but but i do think that giving it some air

that you know people who never talk about it can can you know have that weird kind of crying laughing thing yeah

All right, let me ask you this question.

So, I mean, I've known you for a long time.

Yeah, so long.

Yeah, so long.

What is

so?

You're 61, 62.

What are you?

Easy.

So, but

let's say, let's pick an age.

62.

What is in September?

What does 25, 35, 45-year-old Mark Marin think of

on a couple things?

The success you've achieved,

whether it be the podcast, the acting career, you know, the, you know, the, the, the, you mean the stuff that happened to you at 40?

No.

No, but what, what does, do you sometimes look back at like

what does, you know, but you and I also, we connected on this anger thing.

Like, people probably don't know, but I was just

like

just a simmering cauldron of rage when he was younger.

Very frustrated.

And so, but some of it is.

But

like, I was always a la la la la.

And yeah, I was just sort of like, that guy's going to bust.

And I was just, I just was the guy like, he's going to murder someone.

And I did.

But I wasn't caught.

No.

No, but the thing is, is, I mean, some of it is just a compliment of like,

it's so apparent that you've done work on yourself and you've kind of done this, you know, you've worked and made progress and independent of your art developing, you've developed as a human being.

But like, what would these earlier versions, what is, I mean, because I remember when you were doing your podcast, we were in the bell house and it was Eugene Merman's Festival and you were, you were angry, Mark, and you're like, this is all bullshit.

And, and I remember, and it was maybe within a year, and your podcast was just had taken off.

But like,

would that guy be able to understand the work that you've done on yourself and

independent of your success, or would he be like, yeah, that guy's fake?

Yeah, yeah, that guy's bullshit.

No, because like it's weird, and I think I have talked about this publicly a bit, is that

I really don't think that

I saw comedy as a career, right?

I don't think I got into it because I was looking to have a career in comedy.

I have no foresight or capacity

for planning.

I really thought that I just wanted to be a comedian.

I didn't do it to get rich.

I did it because I wanted to have the space to

own the space and express who I was.

And I really think that my whole journey as a comic was to become a whole person.

I don't know why I chose this.

I think gotta, I kind of know.

My mom used to embarrass me a lot.

Like, my mom was like an embarrassing person

because, you know, she was, you know, very, you know, beautiful and vain, and she had an eating disorder.

And, you know, she would complicate.

You know, you'd go to a restaurant with her, and she

would be like, do you make a pizza without the dough?

You know, like, it's so like.

And it was never ending.

You know,

it was embarrassing.

And I think that I lived through that and I picked the most potentially, I think I wanted to transcend embarrassment and own myself somehow on this stage.

It wasn't because I'm going to be an entertainer.

I'm like, this is how I'm going to become me.

This is a funny story.

I just want to tell it about my mother because I think I'm probably harder on her than I am my father, or I don't show the good side of her, the gifts that she gave me.

And I think I told this story once on stage, but like when I was probably 11 or 12 years old, my family was on a ski trip with another, you know, another family, the Leffenfelds.

And we were up in Colorado skiing, the two families.

And we were all at dinner.

I swear to God, it's got to be 11 years old.

And somehow the adults start talking.

Like, I think it was Bobby Leffenfeld.

She said,

so if you were stuck on a mountain and,

you had to

eat your partner,

what part would you eat first?

And my mother, I just remember, she goes, I guess the penis, I'm used to that.

And there's so much to unpack.

And you were 11?

Look, I'm 11.

And I'm like,

what is that even, you know?

It's just like I couldn't even manage.

My head exploded.

It was embarrassing, but compelling.

And there's a lot I didn't know about the world.

But my point is, to speak to, you know, how I feel now, is that I think this journey, because I don't think there's a lot of difference between me talking to you, me talking on the podcast and me as a comic, other than

structure and decision-making.

I think

I improvise everything until it becomes something.

And on the podcast, I'm talking freely.

And now I'm talking freely.

So I don't, there's just different frequencies of me, but there's no character that ever evolved, which fucking annoys me because I'd see guys, and I think you have a stage persona.

Do you think that?

I mean, yeah, in a certain way.

Yeah.

I don't know if this is an accusation.

If this is a subtle, you know, these

college kid comedians.

They wear khakis.

No, no, what I'm saying is, like, I always envied them, like, how do I be a persona?

You know, can I just have a character that is kind of me?

And I guess it is, but I guess the point is, is I think what's happened through the arc of the podcast and through, you know, my commitment to comedy as my primary form of expression, that I have, you know, arrived at myself.

So there's a comfort there.

And I think that at different ages, to address the question, I think I was who I was at that time.

I don't know that I could have seen me like this.

Because I watched this documentary about me and there's footage of me.

And this is a documentary that goes all through the grief and through losing Lynn and through my home life and everything else.

And the cringiest part to me in watching it was the footage of me doing stand-up in 1988.

Wow.

Because I was angry, I was cocky, I had all this swagger that I thought was like, yeah, I'm doing it.

But it's so pathetic because I was so young and I just, you know,

took on this

disposition that wasn't genuine.

I could see me in there.

So I really think at any given point in time, if you would have asked me these things, I was not.

planning on this type of success.

I had no plan to have any sort of success.

I had things I wanted to do that never seemed to manifest.

And I didn't know why, because I didn't have any sort of control of my emotions or my talent.

And I just think I just grew up.

So I think that at any given point in time, when you tell me, you know, at these ages, I believe at those points in time, I thought I was pretty grown up too.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, you talk about this.

That makes sense.

No, yeah.

Because when you talk about like going into stand-up, you didn't think like, oh, this is going to be a career.

Because there is like

when I started stand-up,

it's, and I sometimes will articulate this to younger comedians.

It's like there was no YouTube.

There was Comedy Central was kind of a thing.

There was no.

There was just clubs.

And there was just clubs.

There was no, and you know, you know, when we were talking about your last special and like that was a couple years ago, and there was essentially George Carlin

and you know Bill Cosby was taking a break at that point

and then

and you know you know Jerry was huge but it was like it was just clubs and there was not

it was not this middle class at a minimum existence and now there is you know

as big as Nate,

but like it's a great living.

But like when we were starting a theme park by the way but but when we but when we started it was I used to describe it is you would

because it was after this 80s comedy boom collapsed yeah it was essentially going into phonograph repairmen yeah as an occupation it didn't make sense and it wasn't like oh I

force you know saw that it was gonna you know that cable was going to you know simultaneously you know it ended up being a joke on the Simpsons how bad stand-up was but it was an outlet that was my first TV appearance was on Carolines but I had no expectation that you know satellite radio would send you a check every you know a couple of when those things first started coming like when I got an email from sound exchange yeah I'm like this is a racket who the fuck is sound exchange yeah and I talked to another comic I'm like dude you better sign up because they got money for you there I'm like really?

And all of a sudden, you get these residuals from satellite.

I'm like, wow.

I remember living on the Lower East Side and, you know, trying to live in New York, 1989.

And I'd have to drive up to New England to do one-nighters to make a living.

And you'd get a $400 check and you'd be like, fuck yes.

Oh, I'm set.

I'm good.

And, you know, it was great.

Yeah.

Because,

you know, just that, that kind of scrapping, you know, for a living and, but being paid for doing this was just, it was, it was so amazing.

And like when I first started doing, like, you know, selling out clubs and doing door deals, because I couldn't, I'd never understood, you know, how the fuck is Jake Johansen surviving?

You know, I'm getting, you know, $13.50 for five shows.

You know, and then like now when I do a door deal, I'm like, holy shit, they were fucking doing well.

I didn't even understand that part of the business.

Like how to make money that you earned as a comic.

So,

but

it was different because you could only do, you know, you could only do it.

There was not an expectation.

It was either you either became a writer on.

I didn't even know that.

Like those, those were the smart guys.

The guys I started with, like, there's only fucking 10 of you guys that make a living, really, at any given time.

like back then like you know there there was there was like hundreds of comics but there was like five that were you know comedy stars and were selling out tickets the rest of us that were just sort of like oh someday you know and

But the smart guys that I start with, like Scar, John Groff,

you know, a lot of them.

What was Lou Schneider?

You remember Lou Schneider?

Like, you know, these guys were like, they did comedy for like five years and they're like, we're going to be writers.

I'm like, is that an option?

What are you going to write you know like yeah the whole idea of getting into TV writing which is a smart call if young comics talk to me it's like what's a career in comedy like well if you can write a joke don't do this

because this is a fucking long shot

I never wanted to write so

here I am so we're

so you all right so you shot this

yeah it worked out all right Worked out all right in the last quarter, dude.

So let's talk a little.

So you shot this at Bam.

Oh, yeah.

And

you talked about the wall before I saw it.

I was obsessed with it, man.

I was obsessed with it.

Like, we were going to do it at town hall, no disrespect, but you know, we were booked, and I'm like, yeah, I did bleach a dark there, but it's too wide and there's too many people.

Like, I'm good.

Like, you know, my cap for like a really good show is about 900, really.

You know, I can do 11, 12, and then it starts to, you know, it gets a little far out for me to think I can be intimate.

You know, I can do it, but it's not as satisfying.

You know, when I do arenas, like it's I don't know why you guys do those so

I don't do it I mean I have

don't worry about it if someone

but so I said I want a smaller theater and we go look at Bam Harvey the Harvey

And I walked into that place I'm like it was magic I was like this is this is it I looked at that wall that's the real wall at Bam that was on the special and I saw that wall and I'm like that's the whole show

that wall looks like a Rothko painting that wall's got a history it's got you know it's survived it's like because they I don't know if you've been to the Bam Harvey but they never restored it they just kind of maintain it in its state of you know decay and so it's got this ruin like quality and I was just enamored with it and I was like we've we've we've got to do it here and then my manager's like it's the most expensive theater in the country and And I'm like, I don't care.

Take it out of my pay.

It's got to be here.

And the guy who's the production designer, this was the interesting thing.

And this is something that I learned from Rodrigo, the guy, the cinematographer who did Killers of the Flower of the Moon.

Anyone know his name?

Yeah, Rodrigo Prieto.

I interviewed that guy.

He's a cinematographer.

And the amount of work that a cinematographer does to make what they make, like this guy.

was shooting

the native characters and the white characters in in in that movie, the Scorsese movie, with different lenses for a different effect.

He designed the effect that

he used for the camera,

for the white people, on a type of

technique that they were using in Europe to colorize black and white pictures.

He wanted that look to represent colonialism.

And then with the natives, he used natural lighting and all this.

And you watch that movie, and you're going to walk out of that, and you're going to be like, this is okay.

And

right and this guy is like you know going deep

so like now I'm like I gotta rewatch that movie again

so the point that the reason I'm saying that is

because those that's the genius I mean you have to assume maybe on a poetic or mystical or some other level that you're absorbing that I doubt it but you know it's in there

so the the production designer we're the first time we're at the theater, it's empty.

I'm like, the wall, right?

And he's like, yeah, the wall.

And we're sitting there and they don't even have a stage at the Harvey.

The audience ends on the floor.

And we did build a platform, but we're standing in this empty theater at this kind of decaying vaudeville house.

And I'm like, that wall.

And he's like, yeah, the wall.

And I'm like, what are you thinking, dude?

And he says, I'm thinking Kensuki.

And I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

So I Google Kensuki and it's this ancient Japanese art of restoring ceramics using, you know, gold filling to make it alive again and make it a new piece.

And I'm looking at him, reading the description.

I look at him like, yeah, go with it.

Yeah, I don't know what your plan is, but do it.

And so that effect of those lines.

That's where it comes from.

And he thought he had seen the set and he think I think it it speaks to where you are and the arc of your career and you know and the restoration and you know kind of putting yourself back together and whatnot.

And I'm like, I fucking love it.

And, and, and then, like, even on the wall, like, you know, in the last two bits, the trauma bit and the grief bit, he fades up those lines onto that old ass wall.

And I'm like, this is great.

And no one's going to fucking know.

And

so now I talk about it constantly because I'm like, you guys, there's some poetry in that shit, man.

That's, I mean, you know, because we, you know, we were talking about this.

Where we got stage.

Yeah.

You know, like the thing with a comedy special is you can only ruin it from a production standpoint.

But I think that that totally enhanced it.

Well, now, like, I'm like, what the fuck are these guys, you know, between us?

Like, you know, I came like I that's why I love HBO.

Like, you know, when we were younger, that was it, man, right?

The HBO hour.

Like, you know, only Robert Klein did those.

You know, I did a couple of Netflix specials.

And, you know,

algorithmically, I'm not their thing anymore so when Nina at HBO was like you know of course we'll do it I'm like oh my gosh HBO special and

yeah and and

and I love it I love it because they know how to to treat it's a curated house you know HBO you're gonna be on you know you're gonna be on the main page for more than three days and then have a hard time finding it or telling where your family can watch it so but my what I was gonna say is like what's with these fucking guys doing 34-minute specials no

like the old Jewish the new version of the old Jew what is with these kids they do a special it's 34 minutes they shoot at the cellar what the fuck is that no

that's like the tape you use to get work at other clubs

all right so let me all right let me ask you we do hours we do hours no i totally i totally agree with we're old school there is also the belief that

people

with the streaming has caused people they won't want they'll watch it in chapters right yeah but that's a lie this idea that like hey you know we got to make it, you know, people can't pay attention.

Sometimes people put their closers at the top of specials.

No, but like, it's like this generalization that people are no longer able to pay attention because the person who is saying that is part of the structure that broke their brains is

bullshit.

You know, my people,

my audience is going to pay attention.

I mean, who are they talking about?

You know what I mean?

It's like, if the people want to watch it, they're going to watch it.

Like, I've never been in a situation where I've been watching a movie on TV and 12 minutes go by.

I'm like, I don't think I can get through this.

I just, I can't pay attention anymore.

Who the fuck are they talking about?

All right, so let me, this is, what do you think is going to happen in the next five years in stand-up?

Well,

sadly, my belief about podcasts and stand-up, I think what's happening because of the fragmentation of media and the kind of contraction of mainstream media and gatekeepers, which some people are like, good, they're gone.

I'm like, is it?

So what happens ultimately with social media platforms and the kind of

malignant spread of podcasting is that,

you know, people will adapt to anything.

And if that becomes the primary, you know, world of entertainment, you know, people will eventually just adapt to it.

So what has quality and what is elevated and what is produced properly will just, you know, seem unnecessary.

So I think a lot of what's happening in stand-up in terms of, you know, crowd work clips and just, just gunning for the hits so you can

get a job where people know you from a three-minute piece where you talk shit to a couple about their kid,

and then you can fill a room and do more of that.

I think it lowers the bar for everybody.

So, I think what will happen is that

well-produced, well-crafted,

thoughtful people that have chops and

a real

entertaining, grounded, you know, high-quality stuff, well, it just will become more and more unimportant.

And

it's a sad thing because

who wants everything to be shit?

Yeah, but

there is also the...

No.

There is.

You know, it's, you know, people, I believe that people value their time even more than their money.

And so like those clip, you know, like those people that do

the crowd work or make fun of someone's shirt and all that, and they don't have the stuff,

they will, they'll go once, but they won't go back and see that person again.

I mean, I have a larger theory.

I also.

Yeah, but then the next one who does that, they'll go see that.

I think people mature and they're like, all right, so

I was tricked into that, but I want to.

I want to see Mark Marin.

Enjoy a grown-up hour of stand-up comedy?

Well, I think people want an experience.

They want to be, you know, it's like you want, you know, like there's the super entertaining movies that you want to do when you're folding laundry, but then there's the movies that you want to make you

want to ask.

I really want to believe you, but boy, people are dumb.

I think that there's going to be the flavor of the month

all the time.

But in the end, in the end, people are like, all right, we've got

we're going to go out to a show once a month.

Yeah.

We gambled on that flavor of the month.

Now this time

we're going to go to something where we know there's going to be consistency.

I actually think that a live stand-up show from a good stand-up comedian is way more consistent than the odds of going to a movie theater and watching

a movie.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And that's why I think all comedians should be, every show should be sold out.

That's because what they're putting in movie theaters is largely fucking direct, too.

But it's all right.

All right.

This is from Linda from Belmore.

Yeah.

Mark, now that you're ending your podcast, what are some things you're looking to do more of?

I think nothing.

No, I, you know, look,

I don't know

what the future holds in terms of,

you know, I do know that I do talk and I like to talk.

So, you know, it does open up options for me.

But WTF, you know, in and of itself is the product of the work of me and my producer, Brendan McDonald.

And, you know, and we,

it is what it is, and it will be what it is as a body of work forever.

And

in terms of like, I just would like to

kind of like

get out and see who I am and what I want to do.

Like, I played some more music lately, and obviously, I'm not looking to change careers, but I would just like to have some, you know,

kind of untethered freedom to see what my creativity really wants to do.

And, you know, I'm going to have to do some more acting because they picked up stick, which is exciting.

But I will add to that, if they shoot it anywhere but LA, I'm going to be fucking miserable.

And like, I would like to sort of figure out, you know, how to do that better.

I'd like to figure out how to do, you know, music better and have find joy in that.

And, you know, I imagine comedy will keep evolving.

So

I think I'm going to do what I do just with a little more

freedom of responsibility.

So when the Daily Beast does an article about this special and the headline is, Mark Maron is a Swifty.

I just did a cover of that song at Largo with a band

last week.

And it was really vulnerable and fucked up.

Yeah.

No, I think she's great.

Because

I was like, I'm going to do that song.

It was really sad.

This is a question from Jill.

Does the title of the special reflect an embracing of your panic?

Because as a longtime fan, I think you seem less panicked than ever, which I would agree.

Yeah, because I think it's an exorcism.

Like,

I am kind of panicked, and that's sort of like the primary sort of focus of my work on me.

In that,

you know,

like

I have this brain.

I have, like, I think I was born with FOMO.

And

like, I think I came out of the womb and thought, like, you know,

what are those guys doing?

You know?

And there's always sort of an urgency to everything.

And I've got to kind of reel that in.

I am less panicked, but that only comes through

a certain level of acceptance of myself myself and the tragedy of the world and life.

And I think through that,

I can get past it.

Okay, this is a question from Mike.

Who the hell do I listen to now?

Love Stick.

Yes, people love Stick.

It's kind of a nice, sweet show.

Well, you know, Dax is doing me.

So

you can try to make that adjustment

I'll be around you know listen to the old ones you know shit doesn't change

there was no name on this essentially they're like you coward we are excited to see where your career goes and suspect that you want to direct Yeah, I think I do, but like it's very overwhelming.

Yeah, because I've kind of put the,

is it the ball in motion, the wheels in motion?

Whatever adage.

My buddy Sam Whipsight, one of my dear friends, wrote a book that I optioned.

And

we've done several drafts of a script, which he writes, and then I go like, I don't know about this.

I helped him shape it.

But

we've got a pretty good script after five or six drafts, and we've got a production company that wants to do it, and we're starting to sort of make a budget.

And the plan is that I will direct that movie.

So that's going to happen.

That's great.

All right.

Kristen asks, on your creative journey, I have to assume there have been times when you don't feel like getting back on stage.

What's the process of getting yourself back up there?

Well,

you know,

no one really wants to go to the gym.

So what gets you there?

To me, it's like ingrained in me, you know, from forever, especially from when we were starting out in New York, where you're like, got to get up there every night, man.

Yeah.

Yeah, I got to try to do five shows a night running around.

And do you feel like it kind of, I feel like it kind of balances me?

Like, sometimes if I haven't gone up for a couple of nights, my wife will be like, get out of here.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't have that.

So

my cats are never like, well, they're always kind of like, why are you here?

So,

no,

it's a habit because, and it's a good habit.

You know, even like before every special or after every special, I'm like, I think that's it.

You know, I don't got it.

I think I'm done.

It's Ralph Mouth.

Yeah.

What's that?

Well, Ralph Mouff.

I still got it.

I still got it.

Yeah, that moment.

Yeah, I still got it.

But like, what happens is, like,

usually there's a half hour or so that, you know, I don't, it doesn't make the special.

There's a bit about dating a borderline personality that has been on the back burner for several specials.

And goddamn, I love that bit.

But so ultimately, it's just, it's what I do.

You know, it's like eating.

So

I don't like not getting on stage because you start to, if you don't stay on stage, and you know this, that what

happens is your relationship with an audience starts to know get further away like if you don't keep your chops in place in terms of being in front of an audience and you will get a fear or you will you know get rusty and and that's that's a reality and and also like I like that moment of discovery because I do it I think differently than Jim where most of my writing happens you know when I have an idea that's funny enough to get laughs and then I watch it grow through being on stage.

I literally corner myself, you know, like I'll get up there, I'll do the idea, and then, you know, I'll wait for the rest of it to unfold and be delivered to me.

So that process is very compelling and exciting to me.

Like, there was two tags in that special that came like four days.

It came the gig before the special, like five days before.

Like, I kind of keep it fluid.

And the punchline.

And like, I don't know where they come from, but I'm always happy when they arrive.

And I guess when that stops, I'll stop.

But, you know, the tag to the Charlie playing, you know, playing with Charlie and like, oh, shit, he likes to watch me play with the ball.

And that the line, it was a setup all along.

That came to me like three days before.

I had another punchline in there, but I knew it wasn't great.

And so like the week before, whenever it was, when

it was all been a setup, I'm like, oh, thank you.

Thank you.

That joke's finished now.

And also the line that, you know, we annoyed the average American into fascism.

That happened like the week before the special.

So I wait for them to be delivered, and that's a very exciting thing.

You know, some would say that's the Holy Spirit.

Oh, boy, if you could get me over to Jesus, that'd be something.

Dylan did it for a while.

Why not?

I could do it.

Yeah, why?

Yeah.

I'll just do my hours.

That would be a great hour.

Right, my gospel hour.

That would be wild to do a whole hour, like really not letting on that, like it's an act, and just do a Christian hour.

Just do it.

It's not like you announce it on 92nd Street.

Why?

It would take me a lot to do.

This is an interesting one.

Do you ever worry about saying something that would completely alienate you from your fan base?

Yeah, I fight it all the time.

But some of it is, there is a,

I imagine there's a balance of some of it is the shock and awe, right?

I mean, you make fun of a character who's like, is that too much for you?

But like every comedian has a little bit of, I like that that made you uncomfortable, right?

I think a lot of them, I don't think every one of them, us, but those of us who

weren't

properly loved and full of anger.

You know, we will kind of make it difficult to love us at times.

So,

yeah, I'm afraid of that all the time, but you get afraid of it, you know, in all parts of life now, you know, because everybody can say whatever they want about you.

But

I do fight with that, and I don't know if it's necessary anymore.

Like, I used to do a joke about that, like, where I'm like, you know, that's sort of what I do.

I push the audience away to see if I can pull them back in, and I push them away, see if I can pull them back in.

It's a little dynamic I call dad.

And,

but I think it would be good if I let that go because when I watch this special, both of these last two specials have been very active and very conscious.

The last three homages to the people that had an influence on me.

You know, because I think, and I just saw this recently, that guy, the babysitter character, is definitely Rick Shapiro.

Right?

I mean, I don't know.

But you, do you...

No, not that he did that, but do you remember Rick's kind of thing?

But the babysitter, babysitter, the character?

Yeah, yeah.

You have that kind of angry, kind of like intentional.

Oh, yeah.

No, it's like.

Rick Shapiro used to do this bit, dude.

Oh, fucking Rick, man.

You remember Rick, right?

Yeah.

He used to do this bit where he'd do these characters.

He'd do this AA character.

Where he'd go, what was the guy's name?

My name is Ray, and I'm an alcoholic.

So I'm banging away on my eldest this morning.

And I realize, you know, Ray doesn't feel good about Ray when he's doing that.

So I call my sponsor, who keeps me sober, and I say, hey, I'm banging away on my eldest right now, and I don't feel good about myself.

And my sponsor said, did you drink today?

And I go, no, I did not.

He goes, then you're a winner.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fucking Rick, man.

This is

really interesting.

Do you think the best therapist could make it as a comedian?

Do you think the best

therapist?

Do you think the best comedians could make it as therapists?

No and no.

You know, well, I think there probably is.

Like, I don't know because

comics are pretty self-contained things.

And, you know, they process things, you know, publicly.

But I don't know how,

generally speaking, how great they are at listening.

And a therapist,

generally, the ones that are in the racket to kind of get their own shit together

generally think they're kind of funny.

But they're not that funny.

And I got nothing at the therapist.

I went back to one recently.

So I would say no and no.

It's a thoughtful question.

But I used to get mad when people would be like, are you just like, you know,

you're getting your therapy on stage?

I'm like, no, I'm not.

But it is cathartic, though, right?

Yeah, I know, but that, but this is this sort of.

This is the difference between seeking therapy through performance.

Well, there are these fucks that, you know,

like these people, like, you know, the sort of, you know, tribalized, you know, bro

manosphere culture of comics,

the edgelords who use all the words.

You know, they like

I've seen criticism of comics.

It's like, you're just whining.

I'm like, yeah, that's all of comedy.

What do you think we're doing?

Yeah, we're whining, but you know, we're hiding it in something.

It is.

No, that's a really good point.

I mean, it's so often it's tragedy plus time, right?

So it's like something bothers you, and then you figure out how to make it funny.

Right, right.

Just bizarre.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't just go on stage and go like, I'm sad.

Okay, on the pod, Sarah Sherman episode,

you told us your Albuquerque ice cream anecdote.

Yeah.

What flavor, what was it?

If you had a Ben and Jerry's flavor, what would it be called?

I used to do a joke that I was so proud of about Ben and Jerry's.

How much shit can they put in ice cream?

You know, it's like fudge chunks, chocolate chip, bacon, cheddar goldfish, and pennies.

Like, I draw the line of currency.

I'm not going to lie.

So

I used to do just funny jokes.

I used to do them.

I don't know, like the ice cream that I had in the car that was on the verge of melting, I think it's like, since I'm doing the plant-based thing, they do a pretty good non-dairy so I think it was non-dairy uh uh cherry garcia and non-dairy you know uh fudge brownie if I if I had an ice cream like I am pretty you know I like pretty like simple things I don't like it to be too confusing you know

like to me like really the perfect kind of like satisfying ice cream if you're like a recovering drug addict who needs something

is that peanut butter cup that shit are you fucking crazy man when you're like, it's just peanut butter ice cream with just pieces of peanut butter cup in there.

And then when you like pull out like almost a whole peanut butter cup, you're like, oh, fuck yeah.

Right?

It's like the best.

I'd have to think about my ice cream, but sadly, it would probably be pretty simple.

You know, just like, you know, you know, fucking vanilla

with like, you know, just globs of caramel and maybe a peanut butter cup or two.

That would be pretty good.

Caramel's pretty satisfying, too.

Oh, god damn it.

What?

I think we have time for one more question.

Okay.

You talked to Scott Frank about your love of 70s westerns.

Would you ever want to write and star in a western like McCabe and Mrs.

Miller?

It's hard to pull off a western right now, you know, in general.

But it'd be interesting, you know, like like

this surprising swagger of the Jew cowboy.

I re-watched the Frisco Kid recently with Harrison Ford and Gene Wilder.

It's fucking great.

But

like I actually had this thought recently, like because I do like I do kind of affect a certain ruggedness, you know,

I think.

And

like I had this moment where I'm like, yeah, I kind of like, you know, I used to think like, I'm kind of a cowboy.

And then like I realized, like, I don't know, I think I'm more of a rodeo clown.

You know, just like

trying to distract bulls of my own making.

See, see, that joke, I think, is a solid joke, but to one guy.

But that validates it.

It does.

And I'll fucking commit to that joke.

Like the anxiety joke, I don't think it's finished yet, but the idea that you're not depressed, it's just you peek on anxiety, and then you just brain decides, oh, let's just be sad.

It's like the resting zone of anxiety before you gear up again for the next one.

I think that's hilarious.

I think it's funny, too.

It doesn't get a laugh.

It doesn't stop me from committing to it.

I think that's the one liability of doing it the way I do it.

It's like,

I'm going to lock into this thing, you know, just, oh my God, God, just keep doing it until it turns funny.

Well, it's working.

But

so the special

drops tomorrow.

You have the bad guys too.

Yeah.

You have

a movie also, right?

Well, I got a little part in that Bruce Bringstein movie, Deliver Me from Nowhere.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, and I got that immemorium, but I don't know where that's going to end up.

And the documentary, I think, got

a distributor.

Yeah, it should be in theaters in October.

But the Bruce Springsteen movie was funny because I feel like

this, I always go into overtime.

So

you end the show, and I'm like, I got some more stories.

It was funny.

Why don't you play in the Bruce Springsteen?

Well, this is a funny story because, you know, I just shot that indie where I'm the lead, you know.

Yeah.

And I don't have a big head.

I'm not a diva, but I just spent a month shooting a movie that was in every scene.

And I, and Scott Cooper, who I love, he's a great director.

You know, he wanted me to be in the Bruce Springsteen movie, but it was a very small speaking part, you know.

And I get done with the

with the lead role.

And then I come back and like, you know, I got to go to Jersey in a few weeks to do this little part.

And I was like, what the fuck am I even doing this for?

It's like, there's hardly any lines.

And I'm on the phone with my manager.

It's like, they could get any actor to do do this this is like entry level acting job like all of a sudden i'm like i just did a lead you know but i i i took it to another level you know i'm i i uh because my manager's like boy if you want to get out of it we can get out of it i'm like i just don't fucking it's like it's not i can't stand out in that part you know and i texted scott cooper the director

who the fuck does that

I text the director of the movie.

I go, hey man, I'm just looking over that script again.

It doesn't seem like there's a lot for me to do here

what do you what that's one of those things where it's like don't hit send you know

the fuck was I thinking so he texts back it's like hey man you know you don't have to do it I just thought it would be fun we'll work together at some point and I immediately go no no no

I'll be I'll be the

He's like it's a pivotal part, but the funny thing about that part was it's a real guy, Chuck Pock, and he was the engineer that Bruce used for years.

And the engineer is the guy that mixes.

And we're trying to, you know, get the sound of Nebraska to match the cassette tape that eventually became the record.

You know, they tried to capture that sound.

It was a very difficult thing to transfer a cassette to

a bandwidth of audio tape that would make it sound good.

And my character actually is the guy that kind of figures it out.

During it, it's not a huge speaking part.

And, you know, Bruce, the real Bruce Bringstein, it turned out it was really fun because we were shooting in the studio and Bruce and John Landau as manager were actually at Video Village the whole fucking time.

So real Bruce Springsteen is just outside the door when you're shooting this thing.

And I had interviewed Bruce, so I kind of was like, hey, buddy, you know,

he knew, you know, he knew me, remember me, so we could chat.

But like,

going into it, you know, I said to Scott, I said, Botkin's a real guy, but like, there's no footage of him, you know, so I don't know how to get into him, you know, as a person.

And Scott's like, don't even fucking worry about him.

And I'm like, all right.

So I learned how to look like I was doing the lever,

moving the things.

This is my whole part.

But I did talk sometimes, right?

So the first time that I talk, I have an exchange with Jeremy Strong.

He goes, cut, and I'm nervous, you know, Bruce is out there.

And I walk into Video Village and Bruce goes, you're him.

You're Chuck.

Unbelievable.

I'm like, well, that's a pleasant coincidence, boss.

You called him boss.

That's my panel story.

I'm just working it out for when I do press on it.

And also, I do think that it is unavoidable that that story about the locking the ice cream in the car will become a bit, it's unavoidable.

So look forward to that.

And I think, yeah, the just be funny thing might happen, just be strictly entertaining.

And the Christian special.

Between us and God's ears.

Huh?

Mark the Apostle.

Well, thank you so much, everyone.

See, that was fun.

Laughs and information and a couple of friends talking.

That was recorded at the 92nd Street Y in New York City as part of their Craig Newmark Civic Life series.

Hang out for a minute, folks.

Hey, people, today marks Jim Gaffigan's eighth appearance on WTF.

For Fulmarin listeners, we posted a collection of Jim's earlier appearances from Deep Within the Archives.

Like, I have some jokes that I love that work in Brooklyn.

Right?

Like,

I have like 10 pages of New York City jokes that maybe work on Long Island.

Right.

But, you know, the bell house.

Sure.

I love doing them at the bell house.

But they're not going out to.

They're not going anywhere.

They can't even, you know, I can do it maybe in the East Village.

Yeah.

Not Ohio, though.

No.

No.

No.

And they're not subway jokes.

But this book will speak to everybody because it's about food.

And there is a chapter in there about your struggle with the blessing and the curse of the hot pockets bit and your struggle with food in general.

Yeah, I would say, yeah.

There's, I mean, it's not kind of like, I'm going to change my life.

It's like, I like to eat.

It's one of the celebration.

Yeah, like I write, you know, I wrote it with my wife and she was like, you should have a disclaimer at the end saying that you know that these thoughts are wrong.

Did you put that in?

No, I didn't do that.

You don't feel it's wrong.

Because, look, we're all grown-ups here.

We know we're not supposed to have a Big Mac every day.

I do, but you're not supposed to.

Do you know what I mean?

I do know what you mean.

I mean, look, when I'm the guy who gave you a coupon for a free Pine Grand Jerry's.

That's right.

And I'm the guy who took it

and put it in his pocket so he wouldn't lose it.

To get that bonus episode, sign up for the Full Marin, where we post two bonus episodes each week.

Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

and a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast

here's some kind of guitar inspired by the sad ambient music that i have going on in my house to comfort my cats which doesn't seem to be working

Boomer lifts, monkey and the fonda, cat angels everywhere.