Episode 1662 - Sarah Sherman

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Lock the gates!

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast.

Welcome to it.

How are you?

How's it going?

I am frazzled.

I'm exhausted.

And I am stressed the fuck out.

I just got back from New Mexico, which was not relaxing at all.

I'm just, I don't know what it is.

I can imagine, I can assume it's a combination of things, big transitions in my life, big sort of horrible turns in the world.

And just my cats.

I mean, look, I don't want to be that guy, but I am that guy.

I got home.

My cat sitter was sending me dispatches throughout the entire time.

They were holding steady and doing okay for like six of the seven days I was gone.

Then day seven, Charlie just beat the fuck out of Buster.

I got home.

There's hair and piss everywhere.

It's a fucking nightmare.

And then she had put Charlie in upstairs, put him in the room to separate them.

And I get home.

I let him out looking for some love.

Nothing.

And then Charlie goes after Buster like he was going to fucking kill him.

I couldn't even get him.

I couldn't stop him.

Cat fights, they're not, it just, it was a fucking nightmare.

It looked, it was just devastating.

And now, Buster's all fucked up and traumatized.

Charlie's back in the room.

I got to get him reconnected to me.

I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do with this.

I can't just, I can't get any peace, man.

I can't even have fucking cats that just, you know, relax.

I don't know if I got to get rid of Charlie.

I don't know what I got to do.

I love the guy, but he's too attached to me.

And I just don't know.

I don't know what to do anymore.

I've talked to cat professionals.

I've tried the Prozac.

and I just, you know, I don't know what to do.

It's just, it's just too sad, man.

But anyway,

I'm back.

It's been a while since I've been on the mic.

A lot of the shows you heard in the last week or so were pre-recorded because Brendan took a trip to Italy, and now I'm back on the mic after about a week and a half.

It's weird.

I got a little untethered out there.

I guess it's just a forecast of the future without this anchor in my life.

But look,

I guess I'll figure out a way to

move through.

Me untethered.

I was out in New Mexico, just me in my head, you know, for like a week.

Kid came out for a couple of days.

I don't even know how to explain it.

Did I mention Sarah Sherman is on the show?

She's been on Saturday Night Live since 2021.

She used to write for the Eric Andre show and performs comedy under the stage name Sarah Squirm, a true weirdo, an old school legacy weirdo.

God damn it.

Thank God for the weirdos.

Don't let him crush all the weirdos.

They're crushing the mainstream, guys.

They're crushing Colbert.

That was a corporate decision and a political one.

Probably a mix of both.

That format is just, it's dated.

It's outmoded.

It's a warning, not just politically, but just in terms of the media landscape, that that stuff's going to go away.

Stuff we grew up with, stuff we loved.

And he's going to fight the good fight.

He is an outspoken guy.

and there is definitely a political component to it, it seems, and it's fucking a shame.

The hammer's coming down, the hammer of authoritarianism on all levels, NPR, PBS going away, maybe not going away, but struggling for a presence after being defunded.

And these are the outlets.

These are the places where thinking, rational people who believe in progress and democracy and incremental change live and learn and report things.

And it's just happening.

But Sarah Sherman is a true blue weirdo.

Thank God for the weirdos.

Look, the weirdos were never mainstream.

It's a rare thing.

She's done an amazing thing by being a mainstream weirdo, by finding the other part of herself that lives in a kind of

the SNL format, which is, you know, can be weird, but Sarah herself is a real fucking art freak.

And God bless the art freaks.

That's what I got to say.

I mean, I always needed them.

I needed them to blow my mind.

I remember when I first realized there was something out there, not bigger than me, but definitely out there in a way that wasn't me and not necessarily something I can understand.

And it's a great-freeing experience.

Not just like free jazz.

I'm talking about

weirdo shit.

I'm talking about performance art.

I'm talking about people who do stuff because they got no choice and it's just incomprehensible to the average mind and even to the slightly smarter mind.

But that mind will usually let it happen.

Take it in.

break my brain a little bit.

Sarah is of that spirit and of that lineage.

It was exciting to talk to her.

I'll be at Largo this Wednesday, July 23rd, playing with the band.

And also, I'm at the 92nd Street Y in New York City in conversation with Jim Gaffigan on Thursday, July 31st.

That's after a screening.

an early screening of my HBO special, which releases August 1.

So if you want to come hear that, I was very flattered and honored that Gaffigan was going to come moderate the conversation.

I'm interested to hear what he thinks and what he has to say.

I'm nervous about the special getting out there and being out there, but it's going to happen.

You can go to wtfpod.com/slash tour for links to tickets.

Now, I'm just sitting there.

I'm just sitting here.

I'm just sitting here in my garage talking to you guys,

having been off the mic for a week or so.

And

well, yeah, I just don't know what's going on in my house.

How to lock Charlie up.

Buster is like just traumatized.

It just, it was a brutal fight.

And I just, I don't,

dude, I just need some peace, man.

I can't fucking stop it.

I can't stop the anxiety.

It's unrelenting, folks.

I mean, I don't even, you know, I told you I was on the medicine.

I mean, I told you that.

And I thought it was working, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Not after last week.

I mean, Jesus Christ.

I spent a week in New Mexico, just me and my head.

And it got pretty daunting, folks.

Pretty daunting.

Kid came out for a couple of days, but I just couldn't get out from under it.

I mean, I don't know what it is.

I mean,

I think my anxiety is like twofold.

I think my brain wants to latch on to things it thinks it has control over.

At least the repetition of images of the worst outcomes seems to make my brain think it's ready for anything.

And that's some kind of control.

The scenarios play out and all the possible outcomes play out.

So my brain just sees them all the way through and settles on an entire arc.

And whether it's bad or good, that's the illusion of control.

Then the feelings in relation to this complete fabrication creates a whole nother level of anxiety because now I'm reacting to this arc that's fictitious.

It's just like my brain is full of psychic tendrils all looking to grab hold of something to worry about.

And

they're relatively successful at finding stuff.

Every day, every day, I have to go through the process of getting each one of them to let go.

And there's a lot of them.

And I got to do it like separately.

It's just fucking, it's a fucking nightmare.

It all breaks down to fear.

And the other element is just some poorly parented part of myself wants parents, wants to be comforted, even with bullshit.

I think when I'm grounded, I mean, I can do that for myself.

But if I'm untethered, all bets are off, folks.

There's just so much out of our control.

I mean, almost all of it is out of our control.

And I guess it's natural to want some control in your life.

I mean, what will you do to have some?

Huh?

What does it take?

Is it possible?

Well, I'll tell you a story.

Okay,

let me lay it out.

I was staying at this house in Albuquerque.

All right.

My brain was on fire.

Most of the time, I was out there with different degrees of panic for different made-up reasons.

I mean, look, the roots of some of the reasons

were true, were real, but absolutely nothing was happening in relation to those things outside of what was happening in my head, which was just on fire, just generating exciting possibilities of dread.

All right, so here's what happens.

I had a rental car and the house was a real house, not a hotel.

I was staying at a house.

I'd gone to the supermarket to get some stuff and I arrived back at the house.

I parked out front.

I thought I parked.

I got out to bring like half the groceries in and I get back out to the car to find the doors locked and the keys keys inside, which is really hard to do with a fucking key fob.

I didn't even think it was possible because they're sort of designed not to do that.

Now, I found the loophole.

The loophole is if you leave the car and drive, when you turn it off, When you turn off the car, I guess the car thinks you're still in it.

So the keys were locked in there and there was no way I was going to get them out.

And there were two pints of ice cream in the car, non-dairy.

I lost my mind, folks.

I lost my fucking mind.

It was 92 degrees outside.

I could not accept that the ice cream would just melt and turn to garbage.

It just,

it doesn't refreeze right

if it melts all the way down.

And I just locked into it.

Okay, so what would a normal person do?

They just take the hit.

It's just fucking ice cream.

For me, it became bigger.

Okay, it was global warming.

It was all the powerlessness I felt about everything.

Me standing outside that car, fuming in complete emotional, psychological, and physical impotence.

I mean, obviously, the correct grown-up thing to do is you call AAA, which I've had for decades, but I rarely use, and this is what it's for.

In my fury, though, I decided that there was no one AA could send over who could get into this car because it was one of these new cars.

They don't even have the little ridge over the buttons on the fucking doors.

It was just, and I mean, I don't even know, do they use like Slim Jims anymore to get in there?

I don't even know.

In my futility, I realized I had full coverage on the car and I should just throw a large rock through the window.

Okay, save the ice cream.

I mean, I'd have to go to the car rental place, probably fill out some paperwork, probably make up a new story.

I'd have to get a new car.

Could take a long time.

Dumb idea.

But

in that moment, I saw no other solution.

That's how blinded.

by fury and powerlessness I was.

I saw no other solution.

So I found a rock behind the house.

I stood facing the the car on the side.

I wound up and I just launched.

It's a giant rock.

It was bigger than my fist, big rock.

And I just launched that fucker, anticipating the shattering of the window and it just bounced off.

Okay.

I don't know.

I guess they're making tougher windows now.

I don't know.

When it hit the ground, I realized, Jesus Christ, I'm a fucking idiot.

Who the hell does this?

And this was not the way an adult would handle this situation, right?

So I went in, I called AA, and I was stuck in like a recording prompting thing for too long.

I didn't even know if I was getting through to anybody.

I just felt like I needed to talk to a human.

I needed someone to say, it's going to be okay.

It's going to be okay.

We'll get someone over there.

And then they told me to get online.

So I got online and I reported it, you know, send a guy to help me.

I couldn't even tell if it was happening or not.

I didn't even know if I, if I, if, if it got through.

So I looked up the car rental, uh, roadside assistance procedure, and that would have cost me a bunch of money.

And, you know, who knows when they would have come.

So, fuck it.

I did everything I could.

And I did the only thing I knew I should do at that moment is I went outside and I heaved the rock again.

And again, it bounced off the window.

So now I'm double dumb.

All right.

So then a text comes on my phone, the triple eight is sending a truck.

It's coming from Santa Fe in an hour.

So I just had to suck it up and just live with the ice cream melting, just sitting there on the front seat, nothing I could do.

It wasn't a baby.

You know, I was the baby.

I just wanted my fucking ice cream.

So I had a man up.

Dude, suck it up.

Eventually you'll go get more ice cream.

So I just went into the house and tried to bide my time.

I bought some broccoli.

So there was an air fryer there.

So I got that going.

I like that burnt broccoli.

Then I got informed on my phone that the truck was coming in 15 minutes.

What?

Great.

So maybe the ice cream, nah, it's probably not going to make it.

But I still didn't believe that anyone could get in the car.

I mean, that was the bottom line.

I couldn't figure it out.

Who's going to figure it out?

So the air fryer, around this time, the air fryer just started smoking.

It just, right as the truck pulled up, the air fryer is like smoking.

And the smoke alarm connected to the house was connected to an alarm system, to ADT.

So I tried to get the smoke out.

It's going off.

I shut off the air fryer and went out to deal with the driver.

You know, as the alarm was blaring, I went out and to deal with the tow truck guy, who's a Native American guy,

who looked to be well in his 70s.

He had kind of a bandana headband.

He looked like an elder of some sort.

And he had this large wobbly wand with a bunch of like, it looked like just a wad of tape on the end.

And I asked if, you know, do you think you can get into this car?

He said, I don't know, probably.

Fine.

I left him to it.

And I went back into the house.

I call the alarm company.

I tell them it was just a cooking thing and not to send the fire department.

They're like,

they've already been dispatched.

And I'm like, God damn it.

So now I go outside.

The alarm eventually shut off on its own.

I got the smoke.

I went outside to see the progress the guy was making with the magic wand.

And I heard the sirens in the distance.

And I was like, you got to be fucking kidding me.

Told the guy, look, fire department's coming.

I burned some broccoli.

So I went out into the street to greet the fire engine and wave him down.

And there was a driver and there were two guys all suited up for fire.

And I was like, look, hey, fellas, I'm sorry.

I'm so sorry.

You know, it's just a cooking situation.

You know, there's no fire and you know they had to slide down the pole and everything probably

and they they said it was fine look it's just part of our job you know good guys and then they're like let us come in just do a heat sensor i'm like sure sure come on in so two fully geared up fire guys come in and they walk around the kitchen we had a nice chat nice guys i thanked them i said i'm sorry i'm an idiot

and uh and they went away

And

then

the guy, the elder, said he got the car opened.

And I was like, you got to be fucking kidding me.

So I gave him a nice tip and he took off in his truck.

I ran the ice cream into the house.

I put it in the freezer.

Still had it melted all the way.

Pretty, pretty far gone, though.

And later that night, I got the ice cream out and just plowed into it.

And it was fucking amazing.

It was fucking amazing.

And I felt like a fucking child, but I ate like half a pint and I realized this is...

This seemed a little too good.

And I realized that it wasn't on dairy.

Yeah.

So I stopped eating it.

And yeah, I don't know

where to go with this story.

I mean, after all was said and done, it was quite an exciting day.

I had a half pint's worth of real happiness before returning to panic of what all that dairy would do to my stomach after being plant-based for so long now.

Turns out not much, just a bit of gas, which is enjoyable in its own way.

So

that was the big payoff for the day is that I got to enjoy a half a pint of full cream ice cream before I realized it

was that.

And then it kind of, I was like, ah, fuck.

And then later, you know, I had, I had gas.

And,

you know, but that's not nothing.

It all worked out okay.

I have control over nothing.

But sometimes there's ice cream.

Yeah.

That's it.

Pretty exciting stuff, though, right?

Okay, Sarah Sherman.

I was so thrilled to talk to her because I am

a true fan

of art freaks.

And, you know, when I saw her stand up and when I started to look into her, there was just, it triggered a lot of great stuff in my memory about the residence, about the New York performance art scene that was just a little before my time, and just all this stuff that I used to read about and see pictures of

radical

art on the performance level.

And I really wanted to talk to her because I wondered, you know, how she came to it.

She's on Saturday Night Live, which is nominated for Best Scripted Variety Series at this year's Emmys.

Sarah will be back on the 51st season of SNL this fall.

And this is me talking to the beautiful weirdo that is Sarah Squirm.

Sarah, I keep wanting to call you, I keep wanting to call you Cindy Sherman, the photographer.

You can.

Does that happen all the time?

Um, yeah, people also call me Sarah Silverman.

No, I'm not gonna do that.

I know her.

I know, but it won't stop you from saying it by.

Really, people,

but not really.

Do they really?

My friend in high school's dad called me Sarah Silverman for the entire four years I was in high school with him, and I never corrected him.

I'm like, let him have it, sure.

That's crazy.

But you, you get, I mean, it's like the names sound exactly the same.

Do you know Cindy Sherman work?

Yeah.

I went and saw her

the last time, a couple years ago.

It was at that tiny gallery over here.

Oh, yeah.

Spruce Madger or whatever.

Yeah.

That was cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She has the funny Photoshop thing, which I think a lot of people aren't hilarious at, but I think she's hilarious.

She's doing a Photoshop thing now?

She's doing funny Photoshop me.

Like, what do you mean?

Like, making like crazy, weird characters.

Yeah.

Totally fried, edited, crazy.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Because she always did kind of wigs and stuff.

Yeah.

Now it's like it's the, it's computer wigs.

Oh.

Photoshop.

What is this?

That's a good question.

I think it's a tool.

Ah.

Some kind of like undoes.

It undoes something.

Oh, it undoes something.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like,

I don't know what it came with, but you know, you put it over the bolt.

Ah, uh-huh.

Yeah.

Got any other questions about that?

Yeah, there's items for people to play with.

Well, there was more.

There was more hammers.

There was more in the old garage.

The knife I found in my old apartment in New York because the woman who lived there was a German photographer and her boyfriend collected knives.

Oh, that's true.

And somehow that got left behind.

The exercise, hand exercise thing was left here.

I think that came in a box of swag.

That's an unpressed record.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

I didn't know that it was like that.

That's what it looks like before

they stamp it into a record.

Isn't it crazy?

Yeah.

Isn't that crazy?

It's crazy how things work.

Crazy.

So, what are you, what's going on?

What are you doing here?

Oh, it started already.

Sure.

I'm in Los Angeles, California.

I'm marking

my house.

You're hardly ever here.

I, yeah, that's true.

And you don't like it?

Well, I actually like it a lot.

I lived here for two whole years before I moved to New York for SNL.

You did?

I lived right next to Jumbo's Clown Room and I liked it a lot.

Did you go to Jumbo's?

I went there a lot.

Yeah.

My friend dances there.

Tape boobies.

Yep, tape boobies.

Shout out to Emily.

She's hilarious.

She'll do like, she'll paint her face like

in corpse paint and like do a crazy dance to like a song from the crow.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

That's great.

Oh, yeah, because it doesn't seem like, it seems like a,

I think I've been there once, but it's more of a tourist attraction as opposed to a degenerate strip bar.

And it's like a,

it's like more of a

girls and gays hangout.

Yeah, it's like campy.

Yeah.

It's like a a funny strip club.

Everybody's being hilarious.

Yes.

It's kind of like that weird one in Atlanta.

Oh, Claremont Lounge.

Oh, amazing.

And they have a hotel there now, so you can stay in the hotel.

Oh, right on top of it.

Yeah.

And isn't there some woman who's been there for like 50, 60 years?

And God bless, I hope she's there right now doing the morning shift.

I once

saw a very sad thing at a strip club.

I know it's hard to believe.

Oh, that's okay.

You being there?

I'm kidding.

No,

I was never one for that kind of stuff.

But we ended up, like, it was back before I sobered up and I was doing Acme in Minneapolis.

And it was during the day.

And

we were just up and drinking.

And we went over there.

And it was like an open mic.

for strippers.

Oh, like an audition or like...

But it was like, and it was, there was something very sad about it.

Like, it definitely felt like some of these women did not really want to be doing that.

But even if you think that, like, that's a real skill.

Yeah.

Sure.

Well, this was not a professional show.

Right.

It was

a little heartbreaking.

Right.

I don't think that's the right effect.

But we've been to open mics at that time of day, and that's way sadder because there's no skill involved in that.

You mean the comedy open mics?

Yep.

The ones that happen at like three in the afternoon.

There's too many comics.

Yep.

There are a lot of them.

Yeah.

There are a lot.

And I don't know how you can do that.

You're just performing for a room full of peers at a coffee shop in the afternoon.

How do you know when you're being funny?

I don't.

But it's so, I did it for so long that it's like, I don't even know any other way to do comedy.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Oh, you've done those shows.

I did.

I hosted an open mic in Chicago for three years, Cole's Open Mic Shout Out from 8 p.m.

to 2 a.m.

Well, that's at night at least.

Right, at least, yeah.

You know, it's like anytime you go on stage and it's still light out, it doesn't feel correct.

It's just it's not.

Because when it gets dark, then it's like dark.

Right, at least you can do the thing.

Right.

You could bomb and then like skulk away into the dark.

No one can see you.

But like,

where did you come from?

I'm from Long Island, which

means great neck, New York.

That's one of the five towns.

That's one of the towns.

It's the home of John Taffer.

John Taffer.

Andy Kaufman's Synagogue was right down the street from my synagogue.

Yeah.

I I had cousins there in Hewlett.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

You're not Jewish.

Yes, you are Jewish.

You are.

You are.

99.9, Oshkenaz, full of through.

All the way through.

Back to the Ukraine, up into the pale of settlement, all the way.

Yeah, yeah.

And you have stomach problems.

No, I don't.

I don't.

What?

I don't have stomach problems.

At all.

I think I have anxiety issues.

Right.

But I did not get the Oshkenaz stomach problems.

My brother does.

A little lactose intolerant.

Right.

Luke?

I'm fully lactose.

I mean, it's any

physical or spiritual malady I have, like, manifests as a stomach

disorder.

Really?

Yes.

Like when you said, like, earlier, you were like, oh, yeah, I'm doing vegan.

Yeah.

I just interpreted it as Jewish stomach.

Oh, no.

No.

My stomach's pretty good.

You just care about animals and other creatures on God's grain.

Well, no, no, it was more of a...

I don't care about the creatures on God's green.

I care about most of them, but

you know if i'm one step removed my caring is tempered by the fact that like i'm wearing boots right now i got a lot of shit from the vegan community that i couldn't call myself vegan i'm literally putting my cup of coffee for the listeners at home i'm putting my cup of coffee down on a leather coaster exactly and it's i bought that uh it was surplus at a shop in canada it's for the alberta red cross just had this

these things of rejects and i just bought them the other ones are jimmy fallon coasters Wow.

But they're weather, too.

No, it's not about animals.

It's about cholesterol.

It's about, you know,

I don't have a bad gut, but I think my heart's not the best.

Right.

Yeah.

That's what I got.

Do you think the anxiety helped?

Do you get anxiety?

I didn't sleep all last night.

Why?

I was just anxious.

I just get anxious and I can't sleep.

Do you spin shit in your head?

Like, what do you million percent?

But like, what goes?

I mean, like, I've somehow managed to be able to sleep as an older person.

I don't know how.

But I don't.

Magnesium.

I saw you taking the magnesium.

That's during the day.

It's not the same magnesium.

But like when your brain spins, like what do you are you full of dread?

Yes.

Dread.

Yes.

And just then, you know, I'm just thinking, I can't stop.

thinking constantly about everything I've ever done and everything that's going to happen badly.

Really?

Yeah.

And you just manage that.

Yeah.

So you think about things you've done and be like, you fucking idiot.

Yes.

And then I'll play them out and and like there'll be like different scenarios.

And it's, you know, the mind is amazing.

What's going on in there?

It's like, why pay for the movies when you get ones for free?

Yeah, and you have no control over them.

You literally have to try to shut the screen off.

Yes.

It's the worst.

I think I'm sleeping.

Am I sleeping?

I'm sleeping.

No, I'm not sleeping.

It's humiliating, but do you see what I'm wearing on my finger?

Is that one of those

that I got a whoop watch?

Because are you finding out about when you're sleeping?

Yeah.

Because you know, you'll just be lying there and you're like, I assumed I had slept at some point.

Yeah.

But then I'll look at the ring and it's like, oh, I never was sleeping that whole time.

That's the fucking worst.

I only sleep like maybe six, six to seven hours.

I would love a classic eight.

I would.

I can't do a classic eight.

It's, but it's one of it's one of the things that's going to help your heart and make you live forever.

If you get one of those classic things.

Tell my bladder.

So you're hydrating.

That's good.

You live in the desert.

You should hydrate.

I hydrate, yeah.

Well, what are you on medicine?

No.

Did you just forego it?

I go to therapy twice a week, doesn't do anything.

Twice a week.

He sits there.

He doesn't say.

I'm there saying the most interesting fucking shit on the planet.

Yeah.

Nothing.

He's got some stuff.

I mean, I was like going to trippy therapist.

I had like a dream analyst.

I wasn't.

How'd that go?

If you don't sleep.

You have to make up your sleep.

Well, I will also wake up in the middle of the night because I've had a crazy dream.

Yeah.

And my most recurring dream is, um,

it is maybe you've had this.

What?

Being on stage trying to scream, no one can hear you.

I'm talking, no one can hear me.

Crowd going crazy.

Or I'm screaming, no sound's coming.

I have a throat chakra thing.

Yeah.

Oh, really?

How did you land on throat chakra?

Which therapist told you that?

Well, the craziest one, actually.

These people should be arrested.

These people should be in jail.

You ever like talk to a friend and they're like, yeah, my therapist told me some fucking crazy bullshit.

And you're like, they should be in jail.

It's not working.

Is my voice piercing?

I feel like it's blowing out the headphones.

But that is interesting because you realize that these therapists are just fucked up people.

What do they have to do to be a therapist?

Theoretically, they have to do a certain amount of hours to get certified.

But what does that mean, really?

It's all up to them and their ideas.

I went to therapy today.

And how was that?

It was all right.

I just started back up again.

I hadn't been in years.

And you started today.

No, no, I just went today.

I've been going for the last few weeks.

Because usually I'll only go if I need to, you know, kind of get something,

like if I'm stuck.

No, you got to be watering the garden.

you can't only go when it's an emergency medicine it's not an emergency it's a specific problem that i know will take some time okay you're massaging the issue right right and but like i can't stay in there the whole time just paying a person to just be like what i can

and what i can talk to you

now i'm gonna

think about my throat chakra right

right but i don't have a problem with the throat chakra you don't because you you communicate a lot but i have a chest chakra problem

where your heart is well for me the stress, like I get tight chests.

Like, I can feel it in my breathing.

Like, I don't get stomach things, but I get like, you know, chest tightening.

Okay.

Yeah,

that's where it happens for me.

Okay.

Sometimes headaches, but not too often.

From stress.

I guess.

You get like dizzy.

No, I wouldn't know.

I mean, I'm on like the fucking Zins all day.

I drink too much coffee.

I wouldn't know if I had long COVID.

I wouldn't know.

I don't know what the baseline of, hey, I feel good is.

Don't know.

Right.

Maybe long COVID is just like existential dread.

Right, right.

It's like Epstein-Barr dread.

Right.

Which one's that?

That's the one that everyone had for a while.

Right, right.

Tired.

Like, Lyme.

Lyman tired.

No, Lyme's real.

Lyme's real.

Lime's fucked up.

You have Lyme.

I don't.

I know a guy who has it.

That can really fuck you up.

Ticks.

Well, because they like, what, like, an immune problem.

I mean, it really, I don't know what it is.

There's like military testing and then the, it leaked from the lab, and then the ticks got it.

No, I think you're thinking of COVID.

No, I think that this was also a,

oh, now, oh, now I'm crazy.

crazy.

A little bit.

But I think that there's like a theory that Lyme is caused because they were doing some like weird military

medical experiments on like.

Hey, who knows the truth, man?

Yeah, truth's relative.

Tell that to my therapist.

So

twice a week.

Now, is this like one of these comedian therapists?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

What do you take me for?

A fool?

How'd you find your guy?

I had a therapist so crazy that I was talking about him not to brag brag at a party.

And I was like, I think my fucking therapist is fucking crazy.

And then

this girl at the party was like,

what's your therapist's name?

Yeah.

Told her first and last.

She goes, my ex-boyfriend was driven into the mouth of madness by that therapist.

Really?

And she recommended.

And then on the spot, I was like, who's your therapist?

Help me.

And she was like, it's this guy.

And then he ended up being down the street from my house.

So that's my goddamn know.

And he doesn't do anything.

I don't.

It's who can say, really?

But wait, wait, how does, what was so crazy about the other one?

How does one, a therapist drive you into madness?

Just, you know, I got like, I was having real, is this interesting at all?

You're interesting.

Just go with it.

I had, I was having, when the Titan submersible

imploded.

Yes.

I was having intrusive thoughts throughout the day that I was at the bottom of the ocean and I was in the

submersible exploding.

And I would be on stage at

SNL.

I was at Talia Hall, Chicago, and I was talking and I was doing my act and in the middle of it,

have you ever done Talia Hall?

It's a stunning, tall, gothic almost cave.

And they give you socks.

And they give you socks.

They give you socks.

I love the socks.

Good socks.

You're on tour.

You need to change your socks.

You got socks for Talia Hall.

So you're on stage?

And it's like, there's this, like, there's a, it has a dark cavern-like quality because the ceiling's so tall.

And I don't usually do big rooms rooms like that.

I usually do short little ceiling army clubs.

And I was just faced with the events, the immense vast void of the dark space in the Antalya hall.

And I was at the bottom of the ocean.

And I was like, guys, what's good?

I know I was just talking about my hemorrhoids five seconds ago, but I have to be honest with you guys, I'm at the bottom of the ocean.

Everyone's like, oh, that, huh?

Yeah.

I was just at the bottom of the ocean.

And you know what?

I think it is because I,

when I pathetically attempt to meditate, I do,

my mental,

for lack of a better term, safe meditative space was picturing, imagining myself at the bottom of the ocean.

Oh, yeah.

And I felt so calm there.

And then once the Titan submersible exploded, I was like, well, that was my fucking spot, bro.

Like, now I don't have a fucking spot.

You ruined it.

They ruined it.

Broke your brain.

Yes.

And now I don't have it.

I actually now don't have a zone that I can just like fucking go to because that was my fucking spot.

You can't go to the bottom of the ocean anymore.

No, and that was my, and then I would be at the bottom of the ocean and there would be no, you know, because it's like sensory deprivation.

There's like, you know, you can't really hear much.

I look, I can see the sunlight.

Yeah.

And I'm there now.

And actually I feel like my heart rate is elevating because it used to bring me much joy and peace.

But do you feel the submersible?

Are you in the submersible or is it just suggested?

I just know it.

Okay.

Because now I have too many like mental associations.

Just the whole idea of being crushed by water is pretty awful.

And it used to not be awful to me.

I used to not feel crushed when I was at the bottom of of the ocean.

I used to feel extreme peace.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry you can't live there anymore.

Where do you go now when you meditate?

What do you try to do?

I just fuck.

I started doing TM.

You did?

Did you get a thing?

And I got a thing.

So I try to just be at the thing.

Yeah.

But there's this kind of this door that I've been chilling at in my meditation.

Yeah.

Not to brag, it's a golden arch of light.

Oh, yeah.

And I just kind of chill in front of this door.

Yeah.

You don't go in the door?

Is it open?

No, I'm at the opening.

I'm at the threshold.

Okay.

And is there.

Oh my God, you're catching me like at like complete psychosis.

Is there a point?

This is crazy.

What do you mean?

Is there a point where you go to the door?

Is there I'm just at the door, light streaming through it.

But no, there's no sort of like, when do I get to go through?

You know what's interesting?

It's not even about that.

Okay, good.

Because my mantra appears in the doorway.

Oh.

And I bask in the light of it.

You doing it twice a day, 20 minutes?

Nope.

I say that I do it and I don't.

The Lord knows that I do not be doing it.

Nope.

Once a day, even

if I'm good.

Yeah.

Something happened.

I fell off.

You know what I will?

You know what's interesting about podcasting, which is an industry that you are, sir, you're a pioneer of.

Yes.

Podcasts and the like have like kind of replaced people's like internal monologue.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm hearing from a lot of people today that are concerned about their weeks without hearing my voice in their head.

And I'm not saying that it's good that you're ending the podcast because obviously it's not a great thing going on here.

But

the listeners, you should be thinking your thoughts and living in your mind palace.

Yeah.

Do you mean they should?

Yeah.

On their own.

Think about all the stuff that we do instead of like meditating.

Well, I appreciate the idea that it's a mind palace as opposed to a mind labyrinth of fucking horrors.

No, it should be good in there.

Yeah, but you can't even go to the ocean anymore.

I know.

And like, and you can't sleep.

I know.

I'm working on it.

So wait, so you grew up in Great Neck?

Uh-huh.

Like in what?

Was your dad in the Jewish businesses?

He's in the schmata business.

Get the fuck out of here.

And

you're like a schmata hanger.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

I loved visiting my dad at schmata in the garment district with all the fucking guys.

Old school.

Still there.

God bless.

He's trying, bro.

Like retail.

Let me tell you, retail post-COVID.

Yeah.

So he's in the knockoff business?

Yep.

Yes, ma'am.

Oh, my God.

And I loved visiting.

And he makes little girls' dresses.

Shout out to Andrew Sherman.

Yeah.

Wow, that's amazing.

Yep.

So you're growing up in the schmata in the fashion district, guys pushing carts around, pushing just dozens of suits.

Yep.

And I, um, I've, when I was like this big, however old this big is, I was like in the elevator visiting my dad.

I'm like, this is so fucking cool.

I'm in fucking Manhattan.

I'm in an elevator going up to like the 33rd floor.

This is like sick.

Yeah.

And one of of the schmata dudes gets in the elevator and it's like, Andy, your daughter's fucking cute.

I gotta get her in my fucking catalog because he made Christmas dresses for Sears.

And I was like, I was this little big, but I wanted to be a comedian.

Yeah.

Something.

I wanted to be a comedian when I was this big.

How big?

Like nine?

I don't even have a memory of not wanting to be a comedian.

No, literally this big.

I'm not kidding.

Well, who was the comedian that was your point of reference?

Like Fran Drescher.

Yes.

Yeah.

I mean, literally, like, dude, Fran Dresher, I would like go to my aunt's house and the block of TV was

The Nanny and then Golden Girls.

So it was just like women being fucking hilarious.

And Fran Fine would shop at Finene's basement where I would shop.

On Long Island.

She would go to Lohman's and get like

Loman's.

Yeah.

so that was like, I was like, that's my girl.

I mean, this is so, what I'm wearing right now is like a total fran fight.

If this was tight, yeah, this is for the listeners at home, I'm wearing like a triple XL,

yeah, like a circus tent of a shirt.

But if this was like a tight little thing, that'd be her, yeah, I'd be her.

And also, she's so Jewish, yeah, so familiar,

she's so familiar to me.

Like, if you're on the island, that's like every other woman, yes,

yes, except she was so fucking fab, like she's so glamorous.

Like, I wasn't around that much, like, true glamour like that.

Yeah.

You were on Bloomingdale's glamour.

Yes.

But that's why I liked Finlene's Basement at Loman's because it still had that, like, it's like the knockoff glamour.

You can find stuff.

Yeah, you can find stuff.

That nobody wanted.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

So did you do this yours, Catalog?

So then I'm in the, I'm like, I'm old enough where I remember I'm so tiny and I'm holding like my stuffed animal at the time.

Yeah.

So that's how young I was.

Right.

And he was like, Andy, you got to let me put your daughter in my fucking catalog.

And I I was like, yes, yes.

And I was like, you're begging my dad, like, fuck, please, please.

And my dad was like, no, I'm not fucking doing that.

Cause my parents, you know, I had wanted to do, I wanted to perform when I was a kid.

And I wanted to like audition.

I would see signs in town for Pinocchio at the JCC.

And my parents were like, you're not fucking doing that.

So perverts can like fucking, you know what I'm saying?

Like, they would just like, we don't, they didn't want me trafficked in the pervert trade.

Well, they didn't, they didn't trust the directors or the theater or that.

Like, you're young.

They don't want pictures like taken of you and put in the newspaper because a pervert will see it.

Like that's like, I had to have a very overprotective dad.

And that was always his fear.

That was always his fear.

That perverts would

get me.

Okay.

And

could he have been more right?

Like, really, think about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, I mean, these were like, this guy made...

Christmas dress, little girls' dresses for the Sears catalog.

You get the catalogs on Sundays, whatever.

So I bothered my parents enough that my dad was like, okay, you can model for the fucking.

Did you have to check the outfits and everything?

No, but he was pissed because it was,

they were little Christmas dresses.

One of the outfits

well, no, my dad was like, you're fucking Jewish.

You don't know about Christmas.

Okay.

Yeah.

You know one thing and one thing only, and that's like the menorah.

Yeah.

And like I was raised like super.

I went to a conservative synagogue.

No one in my family could speak or read Hebrew.

No, no.

Yeah, it's just a middle-class conservative Jew thing.

Yes, and it's always like this like inherited Holocaust drama.

Oh, yeah, of course.

They're coming for you, be Jewish, whatever.

The gift shop with the paintings of the old men and the Torahs.

And we had, of course,

the shop was called the Zion Lion.

Yeah.

And great, right?

We had a guy, Fred,

was it Vestin?

There was a Holocaust survivor at my temple that did paintings.

So the gift shop, you always had, you get one on your bar mitzvah, an original painting by him.

wow yeah do you still have it to this day i wonder if i have it i i hope i have it if they were always just you know old men with holding torus right and that was the whole thing well i of course used my bar mitzvah to do like a routine you did like i was hamming it up up there to the point where i got like a my mom i just remember like seeing my mom in the front row going like doing the stop it stop it

so wait so did your dad put

tibosh on the christmas outfit they let me do they let me do it and i just it was the best day of my life like I had to get up at like I remember having to get up at 6 a.m.

Yeah to go to Manhattan to get my hair and fucking makeup done for this year's catalog and I'd never worn a Christmas dress like you know very stoic Jews there's no like poofy cupcake dresses in my life like only very serious you know whatever yeah

yeah and like I felt like so glamorous because they were doing my makeup I'd never had my makeup done and I'd never worn a poofy dress and they sat me like a little little Miss Tuffett, a little Miss Muffet on my Tuffet on top of a pile of presents in front of a Christmas tree.

Like we didn't have like all this shit.

We didn't have like a fucking sparkly Christmas tree with fancy fucking presents.

Like for a Hanukkah, I literally got a pencil case.

Like I never got all this like fun shit.

But I just remember getting up at 6 a.m.

Like that was the big thing.

I had to get up so early.

And get ready.

And get ready.

Yeah, the Jewish,

you know, the kind of the stuff that goes with Jewish holidays, not very uplifting.

I mean, and there's no like pomp and circumstance.

Dreidel.

Yes.

Everything's wood or rock.

Yes.

Yes.

Gold chocolate coins.

That tastes like shit.

Yeah, by the way.

They're always dry.

And just like a ball of salted, pickled fish.

It's like not

fun.

It's not fun.

Do you have a taste for the pickled fish now?

No.

It's fucking gross.

Like, pickled herring is fucking gross.

Well, what about like smoked

smoked kipper salmon?

No, none of this shit.

And

I had chronic diarrhea my whole life.

Because you didn't know you were lactose and diet.

Yes.

Because, like, every, I lived in a bagel house.

So it was like breakfast, bagel, and cream cheese, lunch, tuna fish, bagel, dinner, whatever dinner was with a side of bagel.

And then I'm like, my entire life was like.

Just diarrhea.

Diarrhea blowout, like

emergency level.

Like never like, oh, I have to shit.

Give me 20 minutes.

Like, it's always an emergency when I have to shit.

And then it's like, right, because I can't have cream cheese on an IV drip.

Yeah.

No challenge.

No challenge.

I love nochala's good, right?

Bobka.

Love a baba.

Well, it's got very dairy.

That's true.

But dairy, no, just egg.

A lot of milk?

Chocolate.

I guess it doesn't always.

I guess that's true.

But like, if I could have a cookle, I would like go nuts on a Kogel right now.

Right?

Yeah.

The sweet kind.

I would go nuts on that.

But

that's like a whole jar of milk.

But anyway,

so then, so then after I do the photo shoot,

every single weekend,

the brochures come out the sears brochures and i'm looking for my picture i'm looking for my picture yeah i'm looking and i can't find it i don't see it i'm never in it and every weekend i'm like where's my picture in the brochure and my dad went my dad took it as an opportunity to do like a like jewish supremacy proud moment it was like they didn't put you in the fucking christmas catalog because you're too fucking jewish that's what they told me yeah turned out My dad was just saying that.

Like, it's like I saw

basically when I was like, I was like home from college and looking through old photos.

I found the negatives from that photo shoot and I just looked like fucking shit.

I didn't know how to smile.

I had bags under my eyes because of like, you know, I had to get up at 6 a.m.

I was so excited.

I probably didn't sleep all night.

And I was like, this little tiny thing, like not even the size of a like.

tadpole and I had these just like

luggage under my eyes.

Looked so tired.

Very old child.

And so that's what did it.

I just was not

using a button.

Yeah.

Was that the end of the fascination?

No.

So you were like probably really young.

So when do you start performing?

When do you start annoying everybody with your need for attention?

It's so embarrassing.

Like I wish it's so cool when people are like, I was like an underwater welder before I got to comedy.

It's like, I just want to be a comedian my whole life.

And so, you know.

But like, who are the other people?

Fran Dresher?

Just.

Who are the other people that you're like, I don't want to be to Seinfeld.

Oh, really?

really?

Like, I memorized every Steve Martin thing.

Like, I memorized the three amigos.

Wow.

Yes.

When you were like, what, 10?

Yeah.

Really?

Like, yeah, like, literally, like, I'll even try to, like, impress Lauren now by being like, will you kiss me on the veranda?

Lips is fine.

And he's like, all right, cool.

Like, I wrote that, whatever.

You're not impressing me right now.

So, but, do you have siblings?

Yeah, I have a little brother.

How's he holding up?

He's the best.

Yeah.

He's like a, like, my little brother, like, you know, because I was always a little freak.

And then my brother,

he's like, he's like a business guy.

He's like a business bro.

He was like the pledgemaster at his Jewish fraternity.

Say anybody to tell?

Everyone in the air?

Something like that.

He's just my dad's.

ZBT.

Something like that.

Yeah.

I wish, sorry, Jack.

I wish I knew.

You don't need to know.

I told him when he joined a frat.

I was like, how dare, you know, I was like,

he's five years younger than me, but when he joined, I was like, How fucking dare you join that?

That is a codified rape institution.

Like, what do you do?

Yeah, and he's like, shut up.

You don't know how to hang.

I mean, I didn't know how to hang for a really long time.

I was very uptight.

Yeah, not anymore.

No, he would like come home drunk, and I would be like, What are you doing?

Get your shit together.

And he'd be like, Bro, I'm 16.

I'm having fun.

Relax.

You were still at home when you were 20?

No,

I went to college in

Chicago.

When did you start doing comedy for real?

I did my first open mic when I was 16 years old.

Where?

Pips?

At the Hogpit NYC because you could do, it's a barbecue restaurant.

So you could do an open mic under 21.

Where was that?

Somewhere in Midtown.

I can't remember.

Times Square?

In my head, it's like where Dinosaur Barbecue was, but I don't think that's it.

And I can't imagine.

Like Hell's Kitchen, kind of.

It had to have been like walking distance from Penn Station because it's like, I can't imagine myself as a 16-year-old like venturing far from Penn Station.

But I wore a bow tie and the host made fun of me.

Okay.

And what'd you do?

I had a joke.

I had a joke that was something like

my virginity is...

So old you could get it on the Antiques Road Show or something like that.

Well, it's also like who was fucking and sucking at 16 that I was feeling so old?

Yeah.

And then

one thing about like,

you guys feel bad for that you have to be in this room with me for five minutes.

How do you think I feel?

I have to be with me forever.

That's pretty good.

That's pretty, that's not bad.

Not bad.

Yeah, I like it.

Already aware of it.

That was like pretty poetic self-deprecation.

I thought so.

Big.

Yeah.

I thought so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just the misery of me.

But then the, I couldn't really take it when the host made fun of my bow tie.

I remember being like, oh, man.

Fuck.

Yeah.

Hurt your feelings?

I think I was like, it was the first time that I was aware of like,

like, because he was miserable.

Yeah.

He was this like big, fat 40-year-old hosting an open mic.

At the hog pit, and there was a game on, there were ribs out.

Like, he wasn't happy.

And so I was like kind of confronted with like the misery of like being a comedian.

Shrapnel, someone else's misery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So was that

how long did you put it on the shelf after that experience?

I didn't.

You kept going?

I like, you know, I didn't, I had an improv troupe in high school.

We would perform in the basement of the local public library.

How'd that go?

Awesome.

But what were you doing?

I don't know.

But whatever like children doing improv do.

Well, when did, like, when does your mind get blown to create what you are now?

Like what, when, when did you, was it in college where you started to inform your thing?

Yeah.

And you know what was funny too?

Like I grew up like addicted to like peewee and all, you know,

and something like happened where

I don't know how to say this without sounding like kind of like a

jag off, but like, you know, I'm like in a visual artist as well.

And I didn't know about like marrying the two like even though I grew up on pee wee and like was addicted to pee wee off you didn't make the connection I would do stand-up and then like

it took me until college where I like realized that I could like have it I could do both at the same time.

Like I would make posters for the stand-up show.

But like even with Pee-Wee, you didn't make the connection that the set was an integral part of the presentation.

Like Gary Panther had put together this, you know, this really conceptual kind of punk camp set to inform the entire situation.

Like I knew that that was like the playhouse.

It was like the only place in the world that was safe to go to.

But for some reason, like, you know, just starting at a stand-up, I was so, I just didn't realize that it could all be one thing while I was doing it.

It was all like I had a bifurcated mind or something.

Well, yeah, because a stand-up is like I go up and I talk.

Yeah, right.

And so, but you didn't, like, there was no point where you like got hip to performance artists or any of that shit.

So then when I moved to Chicago,

so then like when I was, and then when I was, how old are you when you graduate?

High school or college?

I don't know, maybe 20.

20.

Yeah.

So when I was, when I graduated college, I was like, oh my God, this could be all one thing.

And then I was in the like Chicago DIY scene with these like crazy performance artists who were doing like nuts stuff.

And I started like what was it called?

The Chicago DIY scene.

DIY scene.

So that was something something that wasn't stand-up or improv it was this other thing it was just people like there was chicago has a really big like noise scene yeah yeah it was crazy like my friend jill would do this act called forced into femininity where she would like take a bag of crickets and like scream into a contact mic and be like you know whatever so i was like so then i would i started this show with my friends called um it was called helltrap nightmare yeah

which was just basically just we figuring out how to blend the two.

Like, actually, you know what?

Do you know Ian Abramson?

He's a comic.

He lived here in LA for a while.

I was doing this performance thing where I was,

it wasn't very funny, and I'm going to describe something that's not funny, but I'm secure enough to admit that I've done a lot of unfunny things in my life.

I was doing this thing.

I mean,

yes.

Yes.

I feel like I said there were luggage bags under my eyes.

I didn't get a laugh.

I noticed that.

I remember that.

I'm laughing in unique places.

You're smiling.

I laughed a few times.

Okay, that's good.

You know, the bagel house, that was good.

You grew up in a bagel house.

Yeah, I did grow up in a bagel house.

Oh, there you go again.

I've been laughing.

All right, so this guy Abramson.

So I was like doing this

bit

where like I started incorporating like multimedia elements into my stuff because I was like, oh yeah, I can make visual art and comedy at the same time.

So I did this like game

called

just, I'm gonna be vulnerable and honest and just be honest with what I was doing.

Okay, I'll hold it.

I'll hold the space for you.

Where did Sarah, from where did Sarah pluck that hair?

That's what it was called.

Okay, and there's these crazy graphics, whatever.

And so I would show these like blown-up body hairs on the projector.

Nice.

And be like, where did this come from?

Like, is this a nipple hair?

Whatever.

And I would, like, I had a laser pointer.

I was like pointing at like the follicle and whatever, you you know, I'd be like, you know, I'd whatever.

It was like kind of crowd work TV, whatever.

It was like a game show.

And I mean, people were, it wasn't funny, but it was interesting.

Yeah.

So, you know, so I had like a bunch of hairs, and they had to guess where the hair, where my body, the hairs were from.

Was it a trick question?

Well, then the trick question started happening where some of the hairs were from goats.

Yeah.

And

I got, I found a goat.

I don't remember how how this happened, but I found,

I was reading some news story because,

you know, listen.

I'm not going to say I don't read.

Sure, you try to keep up.

Yeah, not to brag.

I was reading a newspaper and I had found out that like some

people

use

herds of goats to

manicure their lawns or like

eat

like vegetation or something, rid of weeds.

And I found out there was a place called Goat Island in Illinois that you have to take.

It's a farm where there's just like hundreds of goats.

And they make them available by the herd?

Yes, and you can rent their goats.

But they live on this island where they're just like eating trees and shit.

It's a tiny island.

So I called the farmer, the Goat Island farmer, and I was like, can I go to this goat island and film a video?

And he was like, yeah, no problem.

And I went to the goat island in a wedding dress, and I just filmed a bunch of like

very

video art videos of you and the wedding dress and the goats.

Yeah, and the goats.

And there were like hundreds of goats, and they're like, smelling my hair, whatever.

Yeah.

And so then I would show these videos.

Yeah.

And like, be like, do you think this hair is like a butt crack hair?

Do you think it's whatever?

And it'd be like, trick questions from these goats.

And then I would show these fucking crazy videos of like hundreds of goats.

And people would be like, whoa, whatever.

But at the time, like, I was so new to this kind of performance style.

Like, I did this show that Ian

Abramson was hosting.

And all this multimedia content was on one MP4 video file that I had memorized the timestamps.

I was like, oh, this happens at 11 seconds, whatever.

And he was like,

this could be like a PowerPoint.

Like, I didn't even, you know what I'm saying?

I was like literally being like showing an image, knowing that it's going to be on the projector for 11 seconds.

You know what I'm like?

You didn't have the technical know-how.

Yeah, so, but that was...

It's a big breakthrough.

Yeah.

Shout out to Ian Abramson being like, this could be on a PowerPoint.

You don't have to be, like, and I was being like, you know, I was trying to incorporate crowd work, but it was like timed, whatever.

It was great.

Wow.

So he took a load off of your shoulders.

I like, thank you, Ian Abramson.

You just cracked it.

You were wide open.

And now the PowerPoint was the thing.

Yeah.

Did you try to do straight stand-up as well?

I was, yeah.

So you're doing both?

Yeah, I was doing both.

That was the beginning of the integration.

That was the beginning of the integration.

Because I was like,

I don't remember what dawned on me that I could do.

Like once I started performing in Chicago and there's like one of my best friends in Chicago is this performer Alex Grelly who literally

I'm like, whoever you are, wherever you are, get on an airplane right now.

Go to Chicago, see the best live performance you've ever seen in your entire life.

What's he doing?

Just crazy shit.

Like he does this show called the Grelly Duval Show inspired by like Shelly Duvall, whatever, fairy tale theater.

And he's like full drag, reenacting,

like getting on top of a giant cardboard Falcor and Neverending Story while singing like The Killing Moon by Echo and the Bunnyman or whatever.

I get the same thing.

Oh, phone call.

That's my mother.

Oh, should we pick up?

You want to?

Yeah, this will be good.

Hello.

Hello.

Hi, Morph.

Everything all right?

Yeah, everything's good.

How are you, mom?

I'm good.

I was eating dinner.

Yeah.

What did you eat?

That's good that you're eating.

What did I eat?

I'm not even sure, but it was

edible.

Oh, good.

And you were playing Jeopardy earlier?

I was playing Jeopardy and I was playing Backjack.

Wow, it's a big day.

You're really out there being social.

I am, but this is telling you what's today.

I said today is a good day.

There's

things to do.

Oh, good.

Well, that's good, Mom.

I just wanted to check in.

I'm in the middle of an interview.

And you're doing okay, though, huh?

Craig's going to be away for a week?

A month.

A month.

Oh.

Yep.

All right.

Well, I'm around if you need me to fly down and, you know, do something.

Okay, babe.

It's good to go.

All right.

Well, I love you.

I'll call you in a couple of days.

Okay, bye.

Bye.

Where in Boca?

No.

She's up by, she's in a place.

i don't know my brother put her i don't know she lived in hollywood she did hollywood florida yeah yeah no never bokeh my grandparents were in bokeh for your jews in hollywood yeah yeah i mean you know they're around i think they're getting less and less right so this this guy the drag show

right so i just like my mind was getting blown constantly and like my friends i was doing all these shows with these like um like electronic guys from the record label called like how soon mountain and they were just like they would be putting out music from this like band called like Macula Dog that would have like they would perform with like horse tails and like GoPro cameras on their head like unicorn horns that were like projecting onto the wall behind like just doing really out shit.

So I was

so lucky that you found that shit.

It changed my life because I was I loved

comedy for so

forever.

Like, but but regular stand-ups.

So because I was trying to figure that out today, I was talking to my

producer and I was like, you know, I knew there had to be some performance art back there, but like it seems like inherently you're a song and dance person.

Yes.

That

your chops and your stage habits are very kind of old school.

Yeah.

Right.

I would even say hack,

but I don't care about that.

I like jokes.

No, no, I know.

I don't think it's hack, but clearly, you know, the embracing that, I, was there ever a point of frustration where you were doing stand-up and you're like, there's got to be more to this?

I think that's just when I immediately just started incorporating the other elements that were interesting to me to the point where it's like, I've overcomplicated things.

And like, literally, I did, did you ever go to Weirdo Night at Zebulon, hosted to buy Dynasty Handbag?

You should.

It's the best show in L.A.

Dynasty Handbag is like the funniest performance artist ever.

And when I moved to L.A.

in 2019, I did her show and and I've got bells and fucking whistles.

I got a costume, I've got visual stuff, I've got jokes, I've got whatever.

And she was like, You are enough.

You don't have to fucking kill yourself every time you do a goddamn bar show.

Yeah.

You know, and I another big moment.

Yes.

So you just could, you didn't have to bring all the stuff, I could bring half of it.

Yeah, I can just bring some of it.

You know,

when do you start, when does it it start getting fluidy?

Like, you know, when does the, you know, kind of like, didn't you do some vomit work?

It was always, like, and then even my like stand-up was always gross.

And

when did you start using the name Sarah Squirm?

It was my friend Ethan Mermelstein in high school is calling me that as like a direct.

Oh, I broke it.

You broke what?

I broke the keychain.

That's okay.

Okay.

Don't worry about that.

It's a lucky, it's an unlucky eight eight ball.

It's an eight ball.

I'm not sure where that came from.

Well, it's an ancient heirloom that I've destroyed.

No, it's a little eight ball keychain.

It's a cheap little hoop.

It's fixed.

I'll fix it.

I'll fix it.

No, no.

You don't have to fix it.

That'll be the thing that I'm doing for the rest of the podcast.

No, don't do it.

So there was always like blood and guts.

Yeah, and then

I was like, and

yeah, meat.

And then my friend Ethan would like make fun of me and they would call me Scorman Sherman because I was like gross.

You did it because you you got laughs and then it

i just i like it like i've always liked like garbage pail kids running stimpy and kids like gross yeah and so i was always kind of like preoccupied with that a little bit and then i got like

you know everybody would call me sarah squirm like people would call me squirm yeah and then squirm just like

re

reinforced this like and then i just was going on stage as sarah squirm because i would do these shows like in chicago with like it would the bill would be like blood liquor and like fucking you know like

forced into femininity or fire tools and i'd be like i couldn't just be sarah sherman like flame so then i was billed as sarah squirm

and then you know this show that i was doing helltrap nightmare i'd make these crazy posters and like butthole tampon whatever as like a trigger warning because the the content of the show itself was kind of grotesque as well.

Just to prepare people so they know what they're getting into.

But did you ever look at some of those other weirdos that used to do it in New York, like Ron Athey and those people that were like squirting blood everywhere, and like Karen Finley and like all that stuff?

I don't know them.

Oh, well, that was old generation.

Oh, okay, cool.

Yeah, yeah.

That was like the 70s performance artists.

Sure, sure.

Like Ann Magnusson, any of those people?

Interesting.

Because you've got like second generation.

I mean, I knew about like Carolyn Schneeman.

Yeah.

like people like, I think that that actually was a big influence on me.

Yeah.

There's a girl, a woman who, Reverend Jen, who used to walk around with elf ears on the Lower East Side when I was there.

There's like, I love that.

Yeah.

Oh, she was great.

She went on to, I think, write

BDSM manuals.

Sure.

Sure.

Sure.

But I'm not a pervert.

I'm just gross.

No, no, no.

I'm good.

That's good.

No, she wasn't that, well, she was a little bit of a pervert.

But

so this is all just happening in, these are all people like your age and around that area.

And there was a whole scene there that was like its own authentic thing.

And it's still, it's still good.

Chicago's amazing.

Like, I don't ever think anyone who can, who comes up in New York or LA, LA, where it's like employers are watching you, it's like, dude, I was doing these fucking jokes where I was like, on, I, I,

listen, this isn't funny, but I'm just being honest with what I was doing.

Yeah.

I would like get on stage and be like, so, you know, men like tall drinks of water.

I'm like a tall, tall glass of water.

I'm a tall glass of clam chowder.

And then I would just like chug a can of clam chowder on stage.

And it's just like, but, and then I had to, I don't remember what the joke was.

Cold.

Right out.

I would open the can on stage.

You know,

I'm not a lot.

With that mother.

So then you had diarrhea after that?

Of course.

But then like something else happened where like, and then I don't remember what the joke is.

And I doubt there was a joke, really, where I had a bag of my own pubes.

That I was like, I had them on stage, I was passing them around, encouraging people to take some of them.

And then something happened.

Yes, of course,

with me, I was like, come on.

Yeah, people were huffing the bag.

Oh, yeah, of course.

They could be so lucky.

Take me out to dinner first.

But then this other comic, fucking

Jeff Arcuri,

he was like, why are they your real pubes?

Can't you use a prop?

And it like never occurred to me.

I just, I was like, huh, why would I lie?

Yeah, now I don't have to wait three months.

Yeah.

Three months.

That's what you

give me 18 hours and focus.

I can regrow.

Oh, that's easy.

That's a talent.

So there's all these people that were pivotal and you're saving you time and energy.

Yeah.

PowerPoint.

Yep.

Props.

You don't need to try so hard.

What was that?

You're hearing that you're enough.

It's like, oh my God, I am.

I'll be taking that to therapy twice a week.

Use fake pubes.

Yeah.

These are big moments.

These are.

They really are.

So what was the response you were like in general when you do these shows?

Was it about laughs?

You know what's so

like now as someone who's been doing this for long enough, like I can say like, oh, I'm experimenting with the push and pull of the repulsion and attraction.

Like, you know, people getting grossed out, but then comedy brings you in.

Right.

I get it.

Yeah.

So I can say now that's an interesting thing I'm playing with.

Yeah.

But at the fucking time, I guess I thought that was fun.

I just thought, I think being outrageous is just funny.

I just liked being outrageous.

And also like.

Once you just start doing stuff like that, like I also just was so inspired by the other outrageous people I was like around.

Yeah.

And like being outrageous would like, we were doing these tours where we would like go to a show at like a weird

like fucking crack house in Detroit.

Yeah.

You know, there were more, like, where there was like a bunch of crust punks and then there was more dogs than people.

And my friend Ruby, who you met, she was on the tour too.

And she was getting heckled by

a man on...

who was on crack heckling her with a large candle.

Yeah.

You know, like, what do you mean?

How does that work?

He just, the floor was dirt and there were dogs.

And then a man who was not on, with us on this planet just was like going up to her with a giant like Victorian candle and a holder going, like, ah, like holding it up there in her face.

Oh, my God.

You know, so it just like, that was just the journey that I was doing.

Right.

Not a regular road gig.

No.

But then I, but then I start, because I was like, again, there was this thing of like, I would do shows at the Laugh Factory Chicago and go on tour with like my comedian friends and then do shows at these weird like punk houses and go on tour with my my like weirdo friends like

i don't know what again there's this thing like i didn't know so much about marrying them right and now you have i hope well i mean how like of course you have yeah i mean i don't know like the old scene in chicago i knew some of those guys like were you well i guess they're they're even older than you aren't they i told you i'm not a day over looking 28 like homes and kumel and no i'm younger yeah younger so that you were the one after them yeah like um the open mic that I hosted, I think the like lineage of people who hosted it, it was like Cameron Esposito, and then she passed it off to Lisa Traeger.

And then Lisa Traeger passed it off to Rebecca O'Neal and Sonia Didley, and then they passed it off to me and Alex.

Oh, so that bunch.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I mean, but when did you start, when you came out here in 2019,

but you were involved.

Like, I have to assume that like Tim and Eric and like, didn't you?

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

That was like my, I worship them.

Yeah.

Well, that's funny.

So

then in Chicago, like I had a bunch of weirdo comedy friends.

My friend Toler Wolf, who's like the funniest guy ever.

He came from Madison.

Yeah.

And so his home club was Comedy on State.

And they were doing a weekend.

Eric Andre was doing a weekend in Comedy on State.

And so they called my friend Toler and they were like, come open for Eric because he's like, you know, Toler is a freak.

And Toler was like, Sarah, you should come.

Like, you know, you're also a freak.

So we took the bus to Madison.

And i think eric thought that we were like local yeah wisconsin college kids yeah but we were like 25 year old like kind of real kids from chicago yeah so he was so he was like after our sets he was like who are you

who are like he thought we were like 18 year old whatever and so then i met eric

And Eric like changed my life.

Like he brought me and Toler on the road with him.

Oh, yeah.

And I like travel.

Like, I opened for him on this big tour with like a tour bus.

And like, those are the best shows of my, because they were Eric Andre people.

So they were

ripping their fucking faces off, begging for Eric to dump ranch all over their face.

Like, it was amazing.

And then I, so then I moved in 2019.

I moved to L.A.

because I was going to go like work with on some Eric Andre show stuff.

Yeah.

And did you do it?

I did it.

And I loved it.

I love L.A.

Yeah.

But I mean, Eric was a pivotal part of it.

Yeah, he says, he likes, I mean, also, when you're like a young comedian and like

your idol is like, you rock, dude, come on, let's go.

Let's take some chances.

Crazy.

Yeah.

And even Eric, like, Eric took me on the road with him.

And

he, you know, a lot of my comedy was like really, I mean, my comedy still is like, I'm disgusting.

Whatever.

Annoying.

Yeah.

Um,

Eric would be like, You're so self-deprecating.

I was, because I would, I, I would, like, I don't even know if it's ADD or it's just like, I'm constantly commenting on anything that happens in the room.

Like, you're going to the bathroom, what number are you doing?

Like, whatever.

So, I'd be like, I'm bombing.

You guys hate this, whatever.

And Eric would be like, you're not bombing.

So, why are you giving people an opportunity to not fucking like you?

What's your fucking problem?

Yeah.

And it's like a very Jewish, like, there could be a room full of people, but you only see the one empty seat.

You know what I'm saying?

The one person not laughing.

Yeah, exactly.

So, like, that was just me fully projecting a mental illness on people who just wanted a good time on a weekend.

They don't need my fucking baggage.

They had a long hard day at the fucking hospital or wherever they worked.

They paid $45 to be there or whatever, plus drinks.

They don't need my fucking shit.

Yeah.

So Eric was like, Why are you saying you're bombing?

You're not bombing.

You rock.

Yeah.

So he

stopped doing it.

I've,

I think I've stopped doing it like honestly.

Like, now I just have like a way to talk about it.

Right.

As opposed to just like feeling like you hate me.

You know,

yeah.

It's less, I try to be less pathetic.

So that's good.

That's another part of the evolution.

Am I talking way too much?

No.

You made a coffee that's turned me insane.

I know.

It's pretty good, right?

To make it strong.

But so Eric Andre was the one that kind of made you feel confident in what you do.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, like,

you know, all my friends that I was doing stuff with in Chicago, like, you know, you're supporting each other.

And like, like even you were saying, like, Open Mike stink, because it's like, well, it's a fucking crowd of a bunch of comedians.

Yeah, but it's a community.

Yeah, and like, you know.

But it's insulating.

Yeah, it is.

Right.

Yeah, right.

So you're not like, you know, you can all protect each other from the fact that no one gives a fuck what you're doing.

Right.

You know, everyone's like a fucking, it's like Chicago.

Someone's like a drunk.

So

whatever.

So being out into the world of the real show business with this guy who does a specific thing.

Like, I couldn't believe it.

I'm like, Eric Andre thinks we're cool?

Like, what the fuck?

Like, having a real like

comedian thinking you're off.

I mean, and that's another thing, like doing comedy in Chicago, like real comedians, quote unquote, would come through and be like, you know.

What are you doing?

Is that what they would be like?

Or just like if you even got one compliment from a real comedian, it would be like life-changing.

Like I remember like Drew Meit Gold, you know him, he came to the

mic that I was hosting.

Is he from there?

Yeah, he's from Chicago and he came back and I was hosting this mic and he was like, you're great.

And I'm like, a comedian with like a fucking HBO special think so fucking great.

What the fuck?

Well, I mean, when you, when you are in the community that you're in, which is that, you know, straddling this punk aesthetic and just stand-up, you're not like mainstream stand-ups don't, they don't see you in the same way.

Yeah.

And that, you know, and that kind of judgment has got to be kind of pressure.

But I'm like, so like I'm addicted to getting past, like, I like need to get past at clubs.

Like there's just this like i need that validation that i'm like funny because that's the thing with like weird crap it's like all right is this just fucking weird crap that's interesting and yeah but you've established yourself as somebody who has control over it i mean weird crap has always been there yeah right there it's usually only one or two per generation of comics who can do it do you know like a lot of people use anti-comedy as an excuse to not do regular comedy right uh and but the ones that transcend it and make it work are rare and you're one of them.

Well, like, you know, Nathan Fielder was a, you know, an alienator.

Yeah.

You know, and he's turned out to be kind of a genius.

Yes.

Yes.

And that the term anti-comedy, like, I've been, listen, I've been called anti-comedy.

No, I know.

And I don't believe, I would,

I need, it's like, besides the fact that I would never want to do something not funny, like, I could, I could, but I could buy, ooh, I bomb, I'm a regular old Oppenheim.

I bomb, I'm out there bombing.

Yeah.

But

it's totally funny.

I'm trying.

Right.

And

anti-comedy, like, besides the fact that it's like, I would hope that what I'm doing, anti-comedy, you know, being called that pisses me off, quite frankly, because I really am trying to make people laugh.

Well, I think anti-comedy is, it's not,

it's actually a school of thought more than just a criticizer.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like, right.

Or it's like, I don't think anyone sets out to make make anti-comedy.

Well, a couple of guys who just with bad attitudes.

Yeah, bad attitudes.

Yeah, that's the whole thing.

And they can't figure out how to be funny.

And it's like missing the point.

Like, bro, I am fucking Jewish.

I have a black, bottomless hole inside of me that needs to hear laughter badly.

I've clocked every time that you have not laughed today.

You know what I mean?

But it's like, I need to call it anti-comedy is to negate the mental illness of needing to hear the laugh.

No, no, I think that's what makes you different.

I wasn't saying what you were doing.

like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you are in the oddball range.

Totally, totally.

So, like, when a club is assessing you, especially now,

they know that, like, well, she knows how to do this.

Right.

She's a thing.

Right.

Not like, what the fuck is this person doing?

Right, right.

You know, it's definitely a thing.

Say what you will about me.

It's a thing.

Totally a thing.

It's a Sarah Squirm thing.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

So, what, you want to get past at the store?

Yeah, I want to be a fucking comedian.

What do you do for 15 minutes?

What's your 15-minute set?

How much shit do you need to bring on stage?

I now

I'm so loving stand-up that, like, even if you come and pay, please come to the show.

Even if you come to the show, I'm having so much fun doing stand-up that all the bells and whistles get so pushed towards the end that I forget to even do them.

And I'll print them all into the last, like, that's good.

You know what I mean?

So, like, full circle.

Yeah.

So, now, when you did like, because I think on SNL, honestly, that you, they've let you do you to a degree where they trust your instincts.

Yep.

And so

you're able to like write with whoever you're writing with and do Sarah stuff that is still pretty gross,

but they know you can pull it off, I have to assume, at this point.

Well,

SNL was like a real comedy boot camp for real because it's like

at at the end of the day i mean everyone can say whatever they want about s and now at the end of the day the goal there's like gotta be jokes yeah and like

Even like as much comedy as I was doing, like, you know, us talking about like, I needed laughs or whatever.

It's like, for real, everything on the show is like three to four minutes.

Like, there's gotta be a joke every couple seconds.

So it's a real boot camp.

And like, all right, you want to do some weird fucking shit where you got like fucking meatballs all over your body?

There's got to be fucking jokes.

Like, and it's a real joke.

not enough of a joke.

No.

And that actually, that was,

I mean, I can't stop talking.

Yeah.

But getting there,

I so,

I just don't, so didn't know what I was going to do.

I was so wigged out.

I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do this.

What, like, whatever.

And like, I got there and I met Dan Bola, who like, he wrote there for a couple years and he like, he's the guy in all the Sandler specials playing the piano.

Like, he called me and was like, what if we did it?

I still didn't know know what I was doing.

And he was like, let's do a sketch where you're covered in meatballs.

And I was like, thank you.

Thank you.

You see me, you get it.

You know, you know.

And he was like, and there's going to be jokes.

And I'm like, okay, yes.

It's not enough to just be weird or whatever.

So you figured that out.

I didn't.

I had a lot of help.

Yeah.

Yes.

But it was a relief.

It's got to be a relief when you stop at meatballs and someone goes, how about these jokes?

You got to be like, great.

Right.

Isn't that amazing?

At the end of the day, there has to be jokes.

Right.

Right.

It's a good lesson to learn when you're covered with meatballs or

meat.

Yeah.

Anything.

Yep.

I was covered in meat for a long time.

But that was another, like, I would literally go to the meat warehouse in downtown Chicago because you could get, there's a bucket of pig heads that they give away for free or like five cents.

And like, I would cover my body in like raw meat from the, like, that they were like getting rid of because it was like going rotten.

I would get, you know, whatever for like some hilarious video or whatever.

And like, it's like, right, I could have made fake meat.

I don't know why it has to be real.

Oh my God.

You're like the most popular girl in town.

But why is it coming through the computer?

Because you have to show me how popular you are.

The old man.

No, I know this is a

pest control guy.

Well, that's fucking great.

You know, it's all been sort of like these moments in your life that have helped you define who you are and it kind of helped you arrive at what you're at.

And people always just think of like stand-up as so, like, oh, it's so lonely.

You're in your car.

You're on the road.

You're in a hotel.

Like, whatever.

It's like the things that have been the most helpful are like other fucking people.

Well, I think also with you, you know, because you're specific and the people that get you and

want to see you, it's probably like this community of weirdos that you can kind of trust.

Right.

So when you go on the road, I'm sure there are people that are wearing a meat hat that are like, what's going on?

You want to go to this thing?

Right.

And they're insane and they want to smell my hair.

But that's, I love them.

And they can.

Yeah.

Well, that's good that it worked out.

So you just write mostly with that guy.

What did you do for your audition?

I did

stand up about

gross stand-up.

Like I didn't know.

Well,

in Chicago, I did Improv Olympic.

I did I.O.

Yeah.

It wasn't for me.

It wasn't like I stand up.

I found stand-up after college for real.

And that, like, because, you know, I was just trying to figure out, I was like doing improv, doing, I was just trying to, and then I realized like stand-up was for real.

Cause like in improv, they were like, we got to like dress normal.

And I was like, work with other people.

Yeah.

But then, so I think,

oh, I want to put a pin in that.

Yeah.

Working with other people.

Cause SNL has made me realize that that's what life's about.

I could be the, I am the most difficult person to work with, but it doesn't mean I don't love it.

Yeah.

When I was like 21, I was at IO and I like did a showcase for SNL because Sharna was like, oh, you know, you should do it or whatever.

And I was like, I don't know, whatever.

And I did like a, I thought you had to do like a character showcase.

Sure.

So I did five minutes that were kind of characters.

It was

awful.

Yeah.

Awful.

Yeah.

And

And then I was like, oh yeah, whatever.

This is like, I'm not good at this, whatever.

And then I was like doing stand-up, whatever.

And then when I was like, I get, I was 28,

then they had asked me to showcase again.

Yeah.

And I was like, I learned like not to do the fucking, I can't do the fucking character.

Yeah.

Whatever.

So then I just did my own stand-up, which is like blue and terrible, whatever.

And

that worked.

And I like, I truly do wonder, like, do they remember that, the 21-year-old?

Right.

I'm sure he does.

It was terrible.

It was, because I thought that's what you had to do.

Well, they wanted to see you again.

They knew your name.

I don't think they knew that that was the same person.

Like, seven years later.

No.

Like, I just ended up, because I had gotten the JFL new faces.

Oh, okay.

So I was like, I don't think they knew that was the same person.

Oh, that's wild.

Yeah.

So

you just did the showcase in Chicago.

Yeah, it was like, no.

You didn't go to the studio.

No.

You didn't go to the studio.

I barely made it out of the room.

It was terrible.

It was humiliating.

Because I was like, oh, I have to do a character.

Hello.

I'm a mop.

You know, I didn't know.

I didn't know.

I can't do that.

I'm not talented.

Like, I can't do like a voice.

You know what I mean?

I can't do like what I thought.

You can't do it on your own volition, but if you were assigned it, you could figure it out.

Gun to my fucking head.

Yeah.

If you were like, try that, I could figure it out.

Yeah.

Do you get the gun to the head a lot at SNL?

It's never like made it to air, I don't think.

Oh, I did like a Nancy Grace thing.

Oh, yeah.

Because that, that is like

the whole journey of SNL has been like

try

these things you've never done before that you have no training or experience and do it on live television in front of people who hate you, millions of people who hate you.

Hate you?

Well, you know, it's not like I'm not like amazing.

So like, but it's like...

You are now?

Sort of.

I'm getting, but it's like, I'm learning.

That's all I'm trying to, is learning.

And so it's just like,

that's what's been so amazing.

It's like, you know, they're like, you're in a blonde wig and you're like a woman.

And I'm like, okay.

All right, figure that out for four years.

You know what I mean?

Or like, you know, I'm so, now that I've been there long enough and you like get to know the writers, they're like, you know, a writer, Mike DeSenzo, is like, all right, you're going to play Katie Perry.

I'm like, and this was something at table read.

And I'm like, all right.

I'll try.

Like, fucking, I'm never staying in front of people.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm like, all right, I'll try fucking being Katie fucking Perry.

And I guess it didn't do good enough to leave the table read.

But, you know, it's just trying stuff.

Like, and I feel so grateful because it's like,

when am I, or in life, are you like given that gift of just like, try it.

Yeah.

And like, it's not like I had to try it in my basement and pay for it and like suffer.

And it's also good to be put on the spot.

Yes.

It gets you out of your head.

Yeah, you don't have to overthink it until later.

And that's another thing about

it's you can't overthink anything.

There's no time.

There's no sleep.

Yeah.

And, you know, obviously there's like shit that can come out of that that's not amazing.

But it's been like, I can be, I don't want to call myself a perfectionist because nothing I make is even good.

So it's like, why?

It's like perfect perfection.

It's like, no, it's not true.

But you know what I'm saying?

It's like not, but it's like, I can belabor something and be anxious about something and like, whatever, whatever.

Like,

you know, I've been doing stand-up for 10 years.

You'll never see a fucking clip of me on it online.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's like, because it's not done.

It's not done.

It's not finished.

No one's like sneaking a phone into.

No one knows that I do stand-up.

No one on God's Green Earth knows it.

What?

They say you tour?

I tour, but they don't know what it is.

Yeah.

Well,

you call it stand-up.

Or whatever it is.

Right, right, sure.

So maybe that's it.

Maybe if you start calling it stand-up.

I do call it stand-up.

Okay, good.

I'm like, it's that fucking wise guys this weekend.

What do you think it is?

It's not a sermon.

I mean, it is.

Wise guys is okay.

I love clubs.

Yeah.

The one in Salt Lake?

Yeah.

That's good.

I did Vegas a couple weeks ago.

I haven't been to their new one.

I like their old one.

I did the new one.

Yeah.

I like the old one in Vegas, the one with the low ceilings.

Seats about 200 in the Arts District.

But I know he's on the same one.

No, that's the one.

That's the one I did.

With Pauly Shore on the outside.

Oh, my God.

He is on the outside.

God bless.

Yeah.

No, I like that room.

I'm going to work out there all the time.

Well,

I had gotten put in like...

She's a good guy, the guy who owns the place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had been put, like,

just because I also had done a lot of stuff with like musicians and stuff, I was always like, I want to do rock rooms.

I want to do theaters.

I don't like rock rooms.

I don't like anything besides comedy clubs anymore.

Well, unless they seat them, they got to seat them.

Seat them.

The standing up thing I can't do.

Dude, I did like fucking Central Park, sun out, 90 degrees, opening up for like an amazing band that I obviously wanted them to like me.

Every, you know, you can't win in that situation.

It's never, I never learn.

I never learn.

I do it all the time.

I never learn.

I always think it's going to be different.

I always think I can convince these people.

Yeah.

No, it's, you got to learn.

Just so you don't put human beings.

I'm fucking 32 and I haven't learned.

You got a lot of time.

So with, so the collaboration thing, you've learned to do it.

It's.

Life.

Yeah.

It is life.

And now, like, I'll go on the road with my best friend, Jack Bensinger, who's the funniest person alive.

Yeah.

And like after all of our sets, like we punch each other, jokes up.

Like

it's like, that's like,

people get like weird like when you get off stage and then someone like gives you a like punch up or something.

I'm like, that is

the best.

It's the only Christmas present.

David Spade, I opened for Sandler the first time.

I said, you know, I'm talking about like my crotch being like a rotten pastrami sandwich or whatever.

It's not funny, funny, but you know, it's a vodka.

It's a setup.

Yeah.

And I get off stage, and David Spade goes, You got so much old meat in your underwear, you got to keep a silica packet in there.

And I go, Thank you.

Thank you.

David Spade just gave me a fucking joke and it's not even fucking Christmas.

Yeah.

But people don't like that.

I don't mind it.

Chris Rock gave me a tag that I used for this whole tour.

I don't think it made the special, but

it was like, I would have never gotten it.

Yeah.

The setup was funny enough, and that's not all he was doing.

And then he just throws me this line.

I'm like, all right.

And even if that line doesn't work, it helps you think of a different world.

But he did.

Not only does it work, it just kills.

It's one line.

I'm like, God damn it.

I know.

I know.

Fuck it.

Fuck him.

I know.

You're like, so on it.

I know.

Yeah.

I know.

I think literally the silica packet joke gets probably more laughs than it's like part of a seven-minute bit.

Yeah, and that's the big laugh.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Of course.

Those old pros.

I know.

I like, just, can you, like, I even said that just to brag.

Yeah.

Yeah, Dave's big.

Yeah, through your line, through your joke.

Yeah.

Well, he's a big fan, isn't he?

Yes.

I love him.

God bless.

How do your parents feel about your work?

They're obsessed.

Oh, they are?

They wear my merch.

They do.

Yeah.

Oh, good.

I was going to give you that t-shirt, but it's okay.

You don't want to give it to me anymore?

I have to go.

I thought I pulled it down.

I didn't, like, I did these t-shirts.

I told you about it when we were texting.

That I don't know where the idea came from or why I thought it would sell, but it's just so weird.

And I thought, well, maybe you could wear one.

I'd easily wear one.

Maybe it just says nerdcock on it.

That sounds great.

It sounds like a shirt I'd wear.

I thought it was such a breakthrough.

Like back in the day when alt comedy was so hot, I thought like now the nerds have the swagger.

So I'm like, I'm just like, just put nerdcock on shirts.

And it flew off the shelves.

No one bought them.

No one.

Cowards.

It doesn't matter.

Everyone's a coward.

Even I couldn't.

He was embarrassed to wear them.

Because then I got to explain it.

I'm like, I can't explain it.

I don't even.

It's a vibe.

You either get it, you get it, or you don't, you know.

Yeah, I just, I couldn't get behind it.

I've made

many bad attempts to do it.

I feel like I talked about

so crazy a lot.

Isn't this what that's what it's supposed to be?

I know.

We talked about meat when I was 10, like for so long.

It was good, though.

Okay.

You feel all right?

Yeah, I was like.

You're not going to fester?

No, I just like hope I, I'm like, what did I say?

It was great.

Okay, great.

I enjoyed it.

I'm turning it off now.

Bye-bye.

See, that was amazing.

How great was that to talk to her?

Saturday Night Live is nominated for Best Scripted Variety Series at this year's Emmys.

Hang out for a minute, folks.

Hey, people, if you want more stuff from SNL, Full Marin subscribers can always listen to the Lauren Stories bonus episode.

We posted it last September, and it's two hours of interviews with former SNL cast members talking about Lorne.

And then I did this sketch I used to do at the Groundlings.

There was a song at the end of the sketch where it's about this gold man who

panhandles, and basically it's the guy dressed all in gold.

And if you give a dollar or something, they'll do the robotic movement.

And a robber comes and takes his

I hate those guys, the guys that stand still?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so a robber comes, takes all his money, and then he is very sad.

And then somebody,

a little kid, and the dad said, Why is this gold man so sad?

Well, I don't know, but if you give him a dollar, maybe he'll tell you.

And if you give him two dollars, maybe he'll tell you in song.

So the kid puts two dollars in, and I sing this really uplifting song about

the tough life of a gold man.

And then at the end, it's it's uh it's uh

you find out uh well, it's because I got a little secret.

I so cock for my face pain,

I suck cock for my face paint, and then the rest of the song is just the words cock and face paint, basically.

I suck cock for my face paint, cock, face paint, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, face paint.

And it's just like cock, cock, face paint, face paint, cock, cock, cock.

It's just like the probably 250 times saying the word cock.

And I did that at SNL as the final thing.

And then I walked out, and Lauren was right there.

And he said, Oh, thank you for coming.

And I said,

I'm sorry about all the cocks.

I didn't know what else to say.

I was just like,

and then that was it.

And then I found out I got the job.

I'm sorry about all the cocks.

Sorry about all the cocks.

To get that episode and new bonus episodes twice a week, subscribe to the Full Marin.

Just go to the link in the episode description and go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.

I'm a little clunky on the guitar, but that's okay.

Here.

Boomer live, Smonkey and Lafanda, cat angels everywhere.